H.Y.S.T? | S2E14 | Cool Runnings & Living in Oblivion - H.Y.S.T?

Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
Welcome to H.Y.S.T? I'm Bradly Hackworth joined by Jonathan Ems otherwise known as "Doc".

(00:07):
Greetings fellow humans.
And this week we are going to be covering Cool Runnings and Living in Oblivion.
Two incredible films, one is a very old love for me, another I was very much not ready for.
I had a feeling you might not be. It is once again I bring to us a movie about indie filmmaking that just does nothing but bring back all the old traumas for us.

(00:36):
Very true. Very true. We're going to start with Cool Runnings and we're just going to jump right into it.
Alright. Cool Runnings, written by Lynn Seifert, Michael Ritchie, Tom Swerdlow and Michael Goldberg. Directed by John Turtletov, starring Leon, Doug E. Doug, Raul D. Lewis, Malik Yoba and John Candy.

(01:03):
John Candy. I can't believe this is our first John Candy movie. That kind of blows my mind.
It's a little bit amazing that our first John Candy movie is his last movie.
This was not his last movie. It was his last successful one that didn't come out. The other ones came out after his death.
Oh that's true. Yeah that's right. I forgot about that. Yeah okay. So this was his last movie that he got to do the actual circuit for.

(01:30):
Yeah. I mean, ugh. And dude, what a way to go out.
I was taking notes when I was watching the movie. I'm like, man, this is what Disney used to be. This was good.
Yeah. It was uplifting. It was inspiring. It was more than just family candy. There was a story that mattered in this.

(01:55):
And yeah, Disney kind of, for all their foibles, for all their flaws, they are good at putting out the inspirational stuff when they allow themselves to.
Very true. But ugh. God, the amount of love I have for this one and how far that love goes. I remember watching this movie just forever.

(02:19):
My best friend and I have been quoting this since, I mean, since forever. No, this one goes pretty deep.
And it opens in a fantastic way with Dereese Banach, played by Leon, in Jamaica November 1986.
Training and saying hi to all the kids on the route and they prep this little race for them, all that.

(02:43):
Fantastic island music. And what a way to set the setting.
Yeah, no, we're seeing this community that supports and respects this kid.
His dad was an Olympic runner. They all expect good things from him. He seems to be right along with it.

(03:07):
He is just as fast as his dad. He's a good trainer. Everyone's like, no, yeah, it's kind of a... He seems to be unpressured.
Most of these movies, when they have that legacy hero type thing going on, they're always like, I don't know if I can really live in my father's shadow.
Not this guy. No, he's like, no, I'm totally going to blow my dad away. I'm going to break my own father's records just you watch. This is going to rock.

(03:33):
And that is cool. His dad ran the 10 and the 100 meter dash in 10 flat. He runs it in nine.
Yeah, he is the better version. And I like that. I like that. Like right off the beginning, Mama Coffee.
Oh, I could watch that backside run all day. Yeah. So yeah. So he's the he's also the village's most eligible bachelor on top of that.

(03:59):
Like, oh, that's that's right. Yeah, I forgot. Yeah. Well, his wife is kind of not really portrayed a lot in this.
So it's and he doesn't seem to discourage all the flirting from the other ladies. And so it really is just that one scene, but it is a big scene.

(04:20):
But yeah, it's really only the one scene that kind of shows that aspect of the character. And it's just for laughs. And one of the things about it, the director, John total tap, as they were going through the accents and all that and early footage was being sent back to the studios.
They're like, dude, we cannot understand anything these guys are saying. You got to have them do this. So the director went back to and they're like, he told me, like, you guys got to talk like Sebastian the crab or I'm going to get fired.

(04:48):
So, oh, no. So they like they all kind of laughed it off. And then they found like a middle ground. They're like, we're not going to talk like Sebastian the crab, but we'll find a middle ground and middle ground. They found I've never been in Jamaica. I really don't know.
But well, that's the thing is like this some of it. Yeah, like, yeah, there were some scenes I had a little trouble following along because their accents were so thick.

(05:10):
And there were some times where a especially with the friend character whose name I'm forgetting now, Senka Senka. Yes.
He dug in. Oh my God. I love that guy, especially with Senka. There were moments where I because he's so sing songy and high pitched in the way he talks. There were times where I was actually wondering, like, wait a second. Is he actually speaking Jamaican or just making fun of Jamaicans? I can't tell because he's he's no he like he basically just being himself as he was born for this role.

(05:44):
Okay, from what I understand and in an alternate universe, the four actors that they wanted to do this movie was Denzel as Denzel as Benek, Eddie Murphy as Senka, Wesley Snipes as Yul Brenner and Marlon Waynes as Jr.
Would and but John Candy was always supposed to be John Candy. Okay, now. Well, I can also say that I cannot imagine this film without the four guys they got because they were all so perfect.

(06:16):
At the same time, I think if we were to see like the Broadway stage adaptation of this movie with those four guys would be equally amazing.
That sounds horrible, but I still want to see it. I Broadway production of a bobsled.
Oh, yeah. Well, you know, hey, it can be done. I there was a friend of mine back in Portland who did a theatrical stage adaptation of Weekend at Bernie's.

(06:49):
You would much different that that's much different that that does not sound insane in any way at all. Weekend at Bernie's sounds perfect for on stage.
A bobsled team by half of that. But I mean, a lot of the magic. I'm not saying it wouldn't be a challenge.
I wouldn't say I don't I wouldn't say it wouldn't be a challenge, but I think it would be an interesting show. I think it would be a disaster.

(07:15):
Like I was saying, Sanka Sanka coffee played by Dougie Doug and his child labor crew and their awesome cheer for the soapbox Derby, which I gave him a little song and all that.
And then he's like, you know what my grandfather said? Like, you're the fastest Jamaican or whatever.
I think you know what my grandfather said? Get back to work. Get back. Yeah.

(07:40):
As my granddad always says, get back to work. Yeah, that was amazing.
I love my granddad said that all the time, too. I don't know how many times I quoted that.
I don't know how many times I've quoted this movie my whole life, but it's it's up there.
This might be my number one, especially for my I think I think for me growing up, it was just the dead part.
Like whenever you see someone crash out and you go, you're dead. Yeah, yeah, I'm dead. That's it. That's a big one.

(08:06):
One that my buddy and I used to do that would just trip everybody up because we never had a payoff for it.
It's like, hey, let me kiss your lucky egg.
Like we would just say it. No payoff. No, nothing.
No, like not or high five. Never led to anywhere. Just, hey, let me kiss your lucky egg.
And then just walk away. That's one that just confused the hell out of everybody.

(08:32):
And why about anyone who yeah, anyone who hadn't seen the movie or didn't remember it probably were very, very confused to witness that.
And that is what makes it funny. Exactly.
I like that he a lazy, crazy, no good, bag of bones.
And then the other two people start laughing like, what are you laughing at?
That's that's a mom. That's a mom right there. I'm going to shit talk my boy.

(08:57):
What are you laughing at? Right. Yeah. Herve. Exactly.
And then Senka gets in that crash. And exactly what you were talking about is Senka.
You're dead. Yeah, man.
It's been a while since I've seen this. I'm pretty sure every line absolutely landed on me.
One hundred percent.

(09:18):
And this is what I was talking about where it's like we do get to see the wife and I actually really.
And this is why I appreciate the wife so much.
He's going off and he's going to train, he's going to get ready for the race and all that.
He's like, it doesn't matter how fast they run. I'm going to run faster.
It doesn't matter how much they want it. I want it more.
And that like how encouraging and like right there with him.

(09:39):
And she's like, are you afraid? Like, I'm terrified.
And I love that honesty between them that like we got.
You're right. Very little. We get to see very little of it.
But everything we saw was rock solid, except that one scene.
But no, and it is an interesting point because, yeah,
because what we get is we get a moment with our we see our main characters true inside him being totally honest

(10:05):
with no mask on in front of his wife.
That's that's what gives us the real story of him.
Like we see the face he's putting on to everybody who thinks big things of him.
Here he is not putting on airs, not putting on a show.
He's not joshing with his friends. He's not showing off for the neighbors.
He is being totally open and honest with his with his partner.

(10:28):
And that's where we the audience get to see where he is in the story.
Right. And so, yeah, yeah, it's a it's a it's a it's a very important scene.
You're right. Even though she's there for for such a short time, we kind of I forgot about her.
But that is for her to be there for him to be honest to is an is an extremely important part of the story.
It definitely serves his character very, very well.

(10:51):
That inclusion, that scene, the getting to the tryouts and then just,
ah, what do you think he's going to be like? Oh, no, he's going to be fine.
I'm a little concerned about that big baldy talking about Yule Renner played by Malik Yoba.
And it's crazy to me, like when I was younger, I thought that that dude was like the biggest muscle bound.

(11:13):
Everything that now I see him now, it's like, man, Hollywood actors have really gone too far.
That's the thing is like this guy, this guy was a behemoth of a monster before Ving Rhames came on the scene.
But also, like with him, so like when they wanted Wesley Snipes to be it.
Right. It's basically the same size, but Wesley was a little bit more tone.

(11:37):
Yeah, like, but I think like a lot of these characters were kind of big guys,
so you didn't really have the little character to give you the size.
I kept thinking about that. I was like, are all of these guys this big?
Because because they're all standing next to John Candy and none of them look little next to John Candy.
No, no, it's a good point. Yeah, but I can't actually have them look big compared to anybody else.

(12:02):
Right. That's true. Yeah.
So you never really had that scene where you got to kind of see a good amount of perspective there.
Oh, and super sweet rich boy Junior Bevel played by Raleigh Lewis tanks them both as he trips and then takes them down with him.
And that look as he is staring at the others crossing the finish line.

(12:26):
And then my heart just like torn to shreds on that one, man.
But then right over into Mr. Coolidge played by Winston Stonah about rerunning the race and like, are you kidding me?
Yeah, yeah. And because, yeah, it's it's it's first of all, like, yeah, you feel for Junior because it's bad enough that you fuck up,

(12:50):
you trip and you screw up your own chances for something that you've been working towards for all these years.
But when you also fuck it up for someone else, like that's that's something that will haunt you till the day you die.
And you can see him seeing you can see that on his face like, oh, my God, like he's already forgotten that he's not going to the Olympics.

(13:15):
Now he's like, oh, shit, the town hero is not going to the Olympics because of me.
And neither is this giant dude who looked like he wanted to kill me before the race.
Well, the look that I'm talking about is that look of despair from Benek.
Oh, yeah, I was thinking about Junior. No, I didn't.

(13:36):
I don't even remember seeing Junior's face on that. But no, I mean, I can understand how he would feel.
I was way like way zoomed in on Benek. But no, right. OK.
You got it. You got a good point there. But then Bennett goes over and he finds I was like, look, if you want another chance at being an Olympian, it's boxing or cycling,

(13:58):
which little bit of a movie mess up because they also had table tennis coming out of Jamaica and weightlifting that.
So slightly. I mean, well, first off, this movie is not factual in any other way than the fact that Jamaican bobsledders went to the 1988 Winter Games.

(14:19):
That's right. They were not athletes. They were Jamaican military.
They were so, yeah, a whole bunch of this. They were not fun.
They were actually welcomed by the 1988 other the other athletes know that they the Swiss team actually gave them a backup bobsled.

(14:40):
OK, no, they were received with a lot of love, a lot of welcome, everything like that.
The movie of the movie up the drama for, you know, I mean, it's America.
Like everything has to be super like it has to be racial tensions.
Yeah, racial tensions, conflict. Yeah, you can't you can't have there. You can't have a movie where everything's OK.

(15:01):
Like that's just not that's not going to no one's going to bother with that movie.
I think it's a much better message for the world.
The actual true story where they were met with a lot of love from the world instead of the epically white covered sport.
Black people come in met with a bunch of who are you guys?
Like, no, we have that true story a million times over.

(15:24):
It's actually really nice to know for one time they didn't go that way.
Yeah, like I love the movie that we got, but I feel like I would have loved to have seen that.
That would have been a little more heartwarming.
You're probably right.
But a first look at the young version of John Candy's character, Irv, who wanted to use Jamaican's as bobsledders.

(15:46):
And right there, the light bulb kicks on and Bennett is like, all right, let's go.
Let's do this. Can I take a photo?
Please toss back in for one more thing.
What's a bobsled?
Because I mean, let's I mean, let's face it.
That is the entire pretext of what makes this whole story so audacious is the fact that we have a bobsled team from a from a place that has probably never seen snow

(16:15):
in the history of Earth. So I very low chances, not since the ice age at the very least.
Yeah. Yeah. Convincing Senka.
And he's like, oh, so a bobsled is a is a boxcar without wheels.
And he's like, he's reading the description. He's like, poor man, push it over the ice. Ice.

(16:42):
He immediately reacts to like, what is this foreign substance you wish for me to drive on?
And igloos and Eskimos and penguins and ice.
See ya. Right.
I love it, man. By the way, this is how you do a proper speech about friendship.
You don't actually go, man, we've been friends for 10 years. We've been friends for 20 years.

(17:03):
Like, you don't do that. You do it like this.
Senka feeds in the speech to say, you know, like feeds in the speech. He's supposed to say like,
we've been through a lot, but there are a whole heap together and I really, really need you.
And then he gives him the speech that he perfectly sets up for him.
And then he still rejects him, which was great. Right. Yeah. That's yeah. That was fantastic.

(17:24):
But what I was just talking about, the way that you actually set up a history between two characters,
like I've known you, I've known you ever since JJ went to go wanted to see you ding ding.
Like stuff like that, lines like that, adult men talking about stuff like that in that context.
That just tells you we've known they've known each other since little kids and they have those inside jokes.

(17:47):
You can key in on that. You don't need to be like, we've been friends since December 14th, 1983.
You don't need to do that. Yeah.
That's so many people do. All right. Then Senko's final question is like, all right, let's go do let's let's go start a Bill Sled team.
Bob said, ah, whoever. Every single time that Dougie Doug opened his mouth, it was nothing but gold.

(18:14):
No, yeah, no, he had fun with this character, clearly. Yeah.
Then our introduction to John Candy as Irv and he's listening to the horse race and tumbleweed is losing and he loses it.
My favorite part of that was after like he's sitting there, he's like yelling at the radio, come on, tumbleweed, go tumbleweed.

(18:38):
And we hear the end of the race. And as he's getting ready to have his temper tantrum, he goes over to the pool rack,
grabs a pool cue, tests its weight, gives it a test swing and then smashes the shit out of the radio with the pool cue.
While he's doing that. And this is what I think is the true gold of the scene is that while he's doing that,
the announcers on the radio are talking about what a shit horse tumbleweed was.

(19:03):
He never had a chance. Anybody who bet on him was clearly an idiot.
I actually missed that because I knew what was coming up and I was like, wait, I was already writing my note on that.
And I like when Sanka and Bennett come in, like, greeting sled god.

(19:25):
The way that he's like grabs another pool stick because he just like, I'm not interested.
And then Sanka is just freaking out. Pool stick, pool stick, radio.
We've seen this. We know what comes next. Come on.
And they just shag ass out of there.
And how smooth Kandi was with taking that pool cue and jamming that window down.

(19:51):
And the look of satisfaction on his face when you hear Sanka going, ow.
I mean, I love Kandi in almost every movie he's in. It just it really doesn't stop.
But yeah, I really appreciate him in this one.

(20:12):
Bannock won't give up and Kandi lays it out. You don't have the experience. You don't have this. You don't have that.
And you don't have me. And it is like, well, then why do you have that poster up?
And he just goes and rips it down like, dude, this character does not give a shit.
Yeah, all the way up until he went.

(20:34):
Well, yeah, he's in. And it's kind of an interesting thing because this is a guy who has, you know, he's given up, but maybe not.
And now, now that it's kind of in his face, now he's trying to give up more out of spite because Bannock had a point.
He had the poster up there. There was a part of him that still like remembered it and still kind of had a hope.

(20:56):
But now that Bannock's pointing it out, like now, yeah, you still got the hope.
And now I'm telling you to put up or shut up that last shred of hope that you've got.
And so Kandi cuts his own nose off despite his face kind of thing. He goes in his last good memory, his last little shred of happiness, rips it off the wall and throws it away just to tell Bannock to go fuck himself.
One of the most unbelievable parts of this story is the fact that that's been up there for 20 years and he never got like drunk and ripped it down.

(21:23):
Considering what it represented.
Possible, yes. Yeah.
Then Bannock tells Kandi who his father was and convinces him to take that chance.
The community call for teammates and the footage scares all of them off.
And then just Sanka sitting there. Yeah, they should. Ice.

(21:46):
In his presentation of what Bob Sledding is, they basically decided to show him the Bob Sledding blooper reel is basically what they went with of all the crashes.
He's trying to sabotage this. Like he definitely is like, oh yeah, you know, there are some. Oh, look at that.
Like, no, he's doing like Bob Seg at America Funniest Home Videos. Like he's going for it and it was great.

(22:08):
And this line, this line and the result is this line. Your bones don't break in a bobsled.
No, no, they shatter. He is trying to sabotage this.
And that brings us to yet another golden cutaway joke where he finishes the film.

(22:30):
The lights come up and he goes, all right, any questions? And we see the entire room is empty.
They've all walked away in the course of the speech, which.
I mean, you didn't have to do it this way, but it did work. I mean, it is a Disney. It worked.
Yeah, it is a Disney movie. And then you'll and Junior show up after the presentation.

(22:51):
First, you'll joins on and joins the team. But yet I'm nobody's teammate.
Then Junior shows up almost to get killed by you.
Right. He walks in your room. He was like, well, the running didn't work out.
Let's see what this bobsledding thing is about. Oh, no, the only people in the building are the ones who want to kill me.

(23:12):
Was this a trap? Yep.
Oh, I would have panicked. I would have panicked a big time.
Then you get the first little bit of Senka versus Yule with their fantastic dialogue.
Like, how about I draw a line down your head so it looked like a butt?
My entire childhood, I wanted to have a bald friend just so I could say shit like that to them.

(23:35):
And by the time I got old enough that I do have bald friends.
Give me a few more years. I had completely forgotten that line by the time my friends had lost their hair.
So, yeah, I need to hold on to that and try to remember it for the next time I see a couple of guys, one in particular, because it's going to work too perfect.

(23:56):
Just very, very excited. Say hello to the first Jamaican bobsled team.
And just Candy's just, oh, goody. Right.
I really like, man, we lost Candy before we actually got the height of Candy. You know what I'm saying?
I don't know if I agree. I think I think he was only going to get better with age.

(24:20):
I think I mean, probably. Yeah. I mean, that was definitely one of his earlier dramatic roles.
That's the thing is like he was almost always comedy.
He once in a while he did the Robin Williams thing and would do something more dramatic where where it would still be kind of funny.
But he's the straight man of the funny bits, you know, and this was Ken.
This was one of Candy's moments where he's not the funny character, but he is there to to to move the funny along.

(24:46):
He is a very strong straight man, though.
Yeah, he really he really is.
But yeah, when I think about like the height of John Candy, I think like, you know, who who is Harry Crumb was one of my favorite John Candy movies.
I can see that.
You know, there was also Delirious, which I didn't actually see all the way through.

(25:07):
I didn't think that one was actually very good.
But you need to check that one out again, I think. You think?
Well, how long is it? How old were you when you watched that one?
I don't remember. It was on cable.
So whenever the you know, maybe a year or two after it first came out.
So, oh, yeah, you should probably check that one out again.
But I mean, we do have another John Candy movie coming up on the schedule.

(25:29):
Okay. All right. Yeah, no, we were heading towards our first John Candy movie and then we did this one anyway.
But The Great Outdoors is one of my favorite John Candy movies.
Right. I forgot that was him. Right.
That is probably one of his better ones. You're right.
Yeah, it's for me, for me.
But I mean, it's been a really long time, so I'm really hoping it holds up.

(25:53):
Senka going off like, no, I'm the driver. No, I'm the driver.
Like, I am Senka Coffee. So, so much champion. I must drive. Right. Fantastic.
But we're just talking about John Candy's dramatic capabilities.
In giving the speech about the importance of the driver and the responsibility and all this.

(26:15):
Right. There was heavy, heaviness in that scene.
And that's because John Candy knew how to bring it.
Yeah, no, he there is he is not mincing words there.
He is directly telling Senka like this is a life or death situation.
And I think we can both agree that the guy who's getting us into this shit should be the one responsible.

(26:39):
Like this motherfucker right here. This was his grand idea.
So how about you put your life in his hands instead of instead of like that?
I did like that. I did like that.
Even though it's like Dries Senka's like, I say we make the rest the driver and John Candy's like, I think I think I agree.
Dude, that was Candy had Candy had gravity to him and it wasn't just because he was so big.

(27:04):
Right. Was that a fat joke?
Yes, dude. Oh, don't.
The man died of a heart attack for God's sake.
I know. I know. Like I wanted to give him like a compliment in a funny way and it wound up coming off in the wrong kind of like the wrong direction.
Man, you can't be poetic about thicker people. Like it's just it's never it's never it's never it's never actually flattering.

(27:28):
Like here's the thing. If I had some weight to me and like somebody was flirting with me and saying I was thicker than a snicker, I might die from how much I fell in love.
But I don't think anybody I think I'm alone in that.
Possibly. Yes, I just love wordplay.

(27:52):
Oh, okay. Where were we? Junior practices speech with Puff and then his dad played by Charles Hyatt.
This was his second to last acting credit shows up with a job offer from Webster Webster and Cohen.
I don't know if that's the first time that that joke has been played like that. However, anytime there's three names that have been said for like a law firm or anything like that, I always say it like that.

(28:21):
I know I got it from here. I don't know where it started, but I have I have taken that my whole life.
And every once in a while, I get reminded where my jokes kind of like my personality.
I get reminded where pieces of it came from and read a lot of it as movies. I mean, sure. Yeah.
I think it's the same for a lot of people.

(28:44):
The training montage crash, pushing the bug crash crash that ice cream truck scene with Senka did breaking off a piece of his hair.
How much did that cost? You got to think just for that one off joke that I think they did just so they could put it into the trailer.

(29:05):
Not to. I mean, like probably not too much ice cream truck with a smoke machine in it.
Some breakaway some breakaway hair on cover and frost.
A lot of a lot of makeup work there, I think. Yeah. Oh, sure.
But I'm thinking like not not that crazy expensive, especially compared to the bobsled scenes.

(29:26):
OK, that's fair. That's fair.
Then finally, they get that successful run, but they can't stop and they crash into a cop.
Second course, they crash into a cop. You have to.
Of course they do. And the second Senka, you're dead.
Yeah, man. I love that.

(29:48):
Just John Kenny running down the hill. Five, nine, five, nine.
And then just blowing the cops off like, who are you? I'm their coach.
They're like, get that thing back up the hill. Yeah.
Just that was.
I mean, that's a good Disney moment. That was a good Disney Disney moment right there. Oh, yeah.
Of course. Yeah. The money raising montage arm wrestling until Big Mama comes in.

(30:14):
Laughed out by the bank over and over again.
Bannock and Senka having a kissing booth until his wife shows up. Right.
Which, you know, I mean, just bad form to not tell your wife that you're doing this.
I mean, especially for a dollar a pop when you're looking for twenty thousand dollars.
That's yeah, that's true. That's that's asking for a lot of trouble there. Yeah.

(30:38):
That's kind of one of those things where there's no shame in doing it, even if you're a married guy.
But at least tell your wife you're going to do it. I mean, let her know.
Yeah. Yeah, that's an individual conversation for sure.
That is definitely wrong, depending on who you're married to.

(30:59):
For yes, for sure.
So then Bannock gets taken away and Senka steps up for this wonderful old woman with absolutely no teething.
It is it is important to remember that communication is key, especially when you're a man whore.
How much did we make? Not even close.

(31:22):
Completely failed until Junior saves the day by selling his car.
They made like a grand total of like twenty bucks, didn't they? Yeah, it was not much.
I did not count it up, but it was not much.
But then, yeah, Junior saved the day by selling his car and Dereese tries to turn it down because it wouldn't be proper,
which is another great moment to explain his character. Great decision to do that.

(31:45):
And then Candy throws his head into his hands because they're off to the Olympics and he still did not want to go.
Right. He was he was really hoping this would fall apart at this moment.
But no, no, these fuckers got these fuckers got verve.
They're there. They're doing it. They are on it.
The first experience with the cold and the Jamaicans stop in their tracks just the way that they all freeze.

(32:11):
Yeah, I love that. Yeah, just like they're coming out of the airport and the airport door to the outside opens.
The wind blows in. They all just stop dead in their tracks.
And they're looking at that like it's an alien planet outside the other the other side of that door.
And they're like, we did not bring our spacesuits.
Did no one told us that we were going to outer space? We didn't bring spacesuits.

(32:34):
That was the thing. Like it got down to negative 15 during that year.
But the thing that they never really covered in the movie is it also came up to like 60 degrees.
So they came in like it was crazy.
Negative 15. Yeah, there's a huge portion of the country that's never experienced that.
And especially if you're coming especially if you're coming from a climate like Jamaica, I bet even 60 is probably, you know, not a great near traumatizing.

(32:59):
Yeah, I like that.
Then they go out. What you smoking? I'm not smoking. I'm freezing.
Oh, my God. That line, especially growing up in North Dakota in the cold.
Everybody, everybody said that for a very long time and it was too great.
But then the way that candy is mocking them as it gets onto the bus like that's not the heat that gets you.

(33:22):
It's the humidity.
And you just got to imagine that people in Jamaica said that to him when he first got there.
That's where my brain went on that one. I love that.
They get all the colorful snow gear and off to the bobblet bobsled registration and the guys like what country?
No, seriously, what country? Right. And that was the thing I was talking about.

(33:44):
They weren't actually met with this kind of resistance.
They were met like kind of like it was a big marketing campaign or something.
Everybody was really happy that they were there.
Like that was where, you know, you just kind of where you were saying earlier, you got to add the conflict and all that.
Right. Just not not always necessary.
So times have changed. Yeah.

(34:06):
This thing is we they did kind of pile on because we had enough conflict already built in.
I mean, I don't know how based on true life the characters even were.
But it's like you got Junior's dad telling him this is a pipe dream.
Don't do this. Oh, no. You will.
The characters were real like the real Jamaican bobsled team was the Jamaican military.

(34:27):
OK, so yeah. So that's the thing. Yeah.
Like even just in that you've got you've got your Brenner being, you know, I am nobody's teammate.
You've got Junior with his dad coming down on him.
You've got just the fact that that Senka doesn't take anything seriously ever that right there.
That's all the fucking drama you need for a sports movie like this.

(34:48):
You don't need. And also the world is against them.
You know, yeah, like you didn't need to try to make this remember the Titans.
Like, no, I even I could see.
I could see where. Right. Yeah.
But I can see where an exec would probably like think he does.
This, you know, no, I get it because like I said, certain things you just got to add in.

(35:12):
Like there's a there's a checklist nowadays. It's inclusion like diversity.
Right. There's that checklist back there.
Back in this point, it was this kind of checklist.
The whatever the era is, you always have to include whatever that era needs you to include.
Like we can we can go back through in every era and what we've covered on the show and cover that.

(35:35):
Right. Yeah, there's a there's a five year span where every movie had this
because somewhere there was a marketing exec who said if you don't have this in your movie, no one's going to watch it.
And you know, which it that always tanks like that's the thing.
A lot of the movies now, a lot of the TV shows now with all the diversity.
Does it tank them? No. Does it tank some of them? Yes.

(35:58):
Trying to trying to go that extra mile to do all these things.
It doesn't work for the story and detract from the story and it ruins the and it ruins the film.
Well, it basically it does depend on whether or not it's you know, was that a part of it?
How hard are you trying to shoehorn it in? I mean, that's that's the thing.
That's what I'm talking about.
That's what I'm talking about. If it's not part of the story, but somebody after the fact said, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.

(36:21):
Oh, here's a good example. There's a black guy in Frozen.
How did he get there? Why is he the only one if I mean, they're going for inclusion.
But what they really kind of came across is somebody was bought along the way.
I was going to say when you say how did you get there? I'm like, I presume by boat. What do you mean?

(36:43):
No, no, no, no. That's what I'm saying.
When you have when you are doing the lone black character and nobody else in that part of the world and everything like that.
No, the implications are freaking way heavier than what you were trying to pull off.
That's more what I'm talking about.
And I suppose that's possible.
But that's the thing. And I say this knowing nothing of Norwegian history or anything like that.

(37:09):
Like, I have no idea. But it's like I remember there even being a conversation about like like in episodes of Doctor Who where, you know,
they're back in time to like, you know, seventeen hundreds of England.
And it's like, whoa, there's in the, you know, the modern characters even saying like there's a lot more black people around than I thought there would be.
What's going on?
And, you know, like the Moors traveled through and like, right.

(37:32):
It's like it's like people came here. It's just like, you know, you don't you know, they weren't included in the media.
Like that's where the racism was. They were allowed to be here. They just weren't allowed to be, you know, shown in photographs.
That's what that's the that's the difference.
You know, and so I don't know how much that's going on in like whatever.
I mean, era, you know, frozen takes place and maybe there were even begin to tell you.

(37:54):
I just know that's like when there's only if there's a family makes more sense and there's a community makes more sense if there's any.
But when there's only one, it's like, OK, that is that doesn't make it weird.
It makes it just really, really weird that that feels forced.
Yeah, like that. Like, no, when you actually do it right and have like like diverse characters in the story that makes sense.

(38:19):
Like what we're talking about, like what you're talking about. Yes.
The Great Wall, the the movie about the child, like like about China and all that.
And for some reason, Matt Damon is there.
OK, it goes both ways. And I know that I'm talking to a liberal.

(38:40):
So let me switch it and just slam the white guy for a little bit.
And I get what you're saying. And I'm right. I was just going to say that it's it's sometimes more like, you know, like what comes to mind for me is how like there was a span of time from like from like oh eight to like I want to say 2012.
I'm kind of like just trying to generally guess here where.

(39:05):
Because Twilight was such a big hit there, like 90 percent of the movies that came out had vampires in them.
So, you know, they were chasing the market like that's how we got true blood.
Like it wasn't just vampires. It was the supernatural world mixed with horny teenagers.

(39:27):
Right. Exactly. Which I got to say by itself, I'm not against.
I just want to make it very clear. But, you know, yeah, it's like when it becomes one of those things where, you know, there is a difference between like, OK, this is a successful like version of this.
Let's let's beef it up versus, OK, can we make this into something? It's not by by throwing these things in because that's what makes money.

(39:52):
Yeah. You know, an example of it working, for instance, an example of it working would be Mandalorian.
Mandalorian is a Western that they made into Star Wars to make it work and it fucking worked.
OK. An example of it not working.
I'm the Great Wall drawing a blank here because I've been very stingy with my TV time lately, so I pretty much only watch the stuff that I've heard works.

(40:19):
I'm standing with the Great Wall. That's a pretty that's a pretty solid example of sounds like.
Yeah, fish out of water and it doesn't work right. Like even Matt Damon's own child, she's like, you know, that movie that you were in the wall.
He's like the Great Wall. And she's like, Dad, there's nothing great about that movie.

(40:40):
Damn. No, he got roasted by his own daughter about how terrible that movie is.
It didn't work. And that's what I'm saying. Like, that's what I'm saying. Like, I know like Jersey Kid keeping it real.
Well, that's what I'm saying. Like, like, I know if I like if I talk about like, yes, gay or black or like any like that.
No, no, no. There's a big chance of getting like bite back on that.

(41:01):
But if I just switch it over and start slamming the white guy and like dances with wolves and things like that.
No, I might have like the whole liberal community on my side on it.
But there are other things to consider than just whether or not we're including a race when we're talking inclusion, like a plot point that you like.
Oh, you're talking like the white savior complex type thing.

(41:22):
The white savior complex type thing. Yeah. I mean, you could have you could have Matt Damon in your Great Wall movie.
Just you don't have to make him the hero.
Well, you've got Martin Lawrence in The Black Knight where it had the black savior complex.
Oh, I did not see that.
Like you like we like we don't like everybody dogs on like certain groups and stuff like that.

(41:44):
But when you bust it down, everybody does it.
Right. Oh, no. Yeah, I get it. I get where your point is.
No, it's like I love it because like anytime like aliens are attacking the world and if the movie was made in America like that meme, the world, it's just a picture of the United States.
Right. Yeah. But literally, if the movie is made in Japan or India or China, that is the world.

(42:08):
Nobody else matters. Like that is no. Yeah, that is just how it goes.
You're you're playing to your audience.
And it's yeah. Well, I remember thinking that that was like the one of the things that I thought was funniest about the Transformer movies was when like there's a scene where the president United States is kicking the Transformers off planet Earth.
And I'm like, hold on, motherfucker. You don't speak for everybody.

(42:31):
It's actually a really good point. Yeah.
With the second movie we're covering tonight, Dermot, Dermot Moroni, he kicks or he declares war on the aliens in the Marvel universe for the whole planet. No.
See, the thing is, because we're watching American made products, we like dog on like the Americans.

(42:54):
Literally, if we were doing this podcast in our home country was any other one that had major productions come out of it, we'd be doing the exact same thing for them. Of course.
It's just we just hate on what we have in front of us.
Oh, John Candy runs into old friends and it is sour gets a meeting with one of them to get a sled.

(43:16):
And I like that line from that from his buddy. It's like, yeah, they may be lightning, but can lightning run on ice, which I'm pretty sure was the tagline on the poster.
If I remember correctly, I can very easily believe that that is a good.
I mean, it's a good line and a good point.
And they go off into that skating rink to try to practice and all this.

(43:41):
Just a few laughs in there hockey player runs into your Brenner and then he gets knocked over.
I mean, it's just just slipping on comedy, just some good old fashioned Disney comedy pratfall and type stuff.
Let's get a bunch of guys who've never seen ice on their life to try to walk on ice and let the hilarity ensue.
Pretty much. I mean, nothing really to it, but a good couple laughs.

(44:03):
Then it goes to watch the Swiss and it seems like the gravity is starting to set in over his competition and like that.
He's like looking at them practicing, like trying to be the best by emulating the best.
Like he had a little journey of his own that ended with the crew sitting there just kind of busting them down being like we're Jamaican.

(44:26):
Let's be Jamaican. Right. Exactly. Yeah.
I don't like the Swiss is what's killing us. Yeah.
Getting a new sled. That's a bit rickety and very loose on that new term, but it's beautiful and Bannock is in love.
That's that's one of those scenes. Yeah.
Where he would have reminded me of was the grease lightning scene from from Greece when they're when they're seeing the car for the first time.

(44:55):
And it is a piece of shit. But they're like, no, no, we can see the potential.
We can fix this baby up. And when we fix it up, it is going to be the best goddamn car on planet Earth.
And that and that's how they're looking at this absolute death trap that's been presented to them, which it winds up being silences falls upon the whiteness as the Jamaicans arrive.

(45:22):
And that like all that and that line from Brenner is like, it's because we're different people always afraid of what's different.
They really made that a big part of this movie. And the reality was it just wasn't there.
Like these guys were welcomed. They were helped. They were pushed. They were like encouraged.

(45:44):
Like they yeah, there was a very beautiful true story and they kind of yanked it just to give us some racial tension, which does suck because this movie did not need it.
No, you're right. Yeah. And there was plenty of tension just in there, you know, pretend characters just in it being an athletic story.

(46:05):
Yeah, like like just just being a sports movie. This was enough and just is what it is.
I like that when they get on the ice, they get the nudge for the first time and can he's just like got to push him down there.
Thank has got to go to the bathroom and just last lines. Coach, coach.

(46:27):
I was laughing. I was laughing a lot through this.
And it was a rough run. Well, we we got we get we also get our first we also get our first gag where we're saying I can't get his helmet on.
And so John Kennedy has to fist it down into his head. Yep. And that that's it.
That becomes a repeated joke that that John Candy with his comedy chops, even though he's playing the straight man in this movie, he is able to make that joke.

(46:58):
No matter how many times they repeat it, it's funny every time because of the way he does it. So nonchalantly. Oh, yeah.
He's just like, oh, I got this. Bam. Like just part of the day. No, like, yeah, absolutely.
But it's a rough run. And that line from Benek again, the third time, Senka, you're dead. Yeah, man.
Well, you can pee now. I'm too late, dude.

(47:22):
Loving it, loving it. And you'll dogging on comic books and Senka calls him dumb. And then you'll absolutely proves that he is by pulling a picture out of Buckingham Palace thinking that one day he's going to live there.
When is pointed out that that's where the queen that that's where the queen lives, the way it falls off his face. I got to give it, man. The actor really kind of like that was a fantastic acting moment.

(47:52):
And you can see and you can see the whole history there, too, because it's like, you know, and it's like, you know, I've done that.
I've done the whole like dream board thing where you find like the picture of the car you want, the house you want or whatever, you know, and you cut the picture out of the magazine, put it up on the wall.
And that's your that's your motivation when you're doing your sales calls. You just stare at that at that picture and think this is what I want. And I'm going to get it by making the sale.

(48:17):
I did sales for like six months. I sucked at it.
So, yeah, but that's what was the picture. It was in it was an Excel one.
Little unrealistic, but all right. At the time, it was realistic.
There were only five grand. So, you know, which was the cheapest on the market at the time.

(48:40):
Really? Yeah. Did you get it?
Excel one? No, I sucked at sales. Okay, I got I got I got fired after six months, and that was the shortest they were allowed.
They told me when they hired me, we have a very specific paperwork program that even if you are suck at this job, even if you're the worst salesman in the world, you'll still have six months before they before we fire you.

(49:04):
And I was fired in exactly six months because I was the worst salesman in the world. Wow. Yeah, just kind of rode that one.
I spent the last month working on my screenplay. I knew it was over. Oh, fair enough.
Junior encourages you in a really good and strong way. Just, you know, follow your dreams like the world would be better off with a few more you'll brenner's just dreaming out there like very good, very strong.

(49:31):
Watching the Swiss and then another one of the constantly quoted lines. I'm freezing my royal Rastafarian nannies off.
Which it that was one of those first moments we get we get a better version of it later, but that was one of our first moments where we are reminded that this is a Disney movie and these characters who are Olympiads are not allowed to curse.

(50:02):
Oh, which is that? Yeah, which is bad enough. You know, we already don't let him fuck now we can't let him talk either. I mean, come on.
It's just it's just cruel. Damn. I know we have gone over that before in the show.
The real test run makes the papers and juniors daddy finds out.
And it gets a warning about his coach.

(50:25):
The thing was because he tells him that he was busted for cheating and having your gold medals taken away from cheating is definitely a big deal.
Right. Candy walks in and you know, given my kid a few pointers, your kid's gonna need all the help he can get.
There was tension in this movie. It was enough. Right.

(50:49):
When Senka comes to the door as a maid. Hello, time down service. Perhaps I can dust your head.
I don't know what accent you could even call this one because it's not Jamaican. Like they were very clear about the fact that they had to Americanize it.
I don't even like because I know I'm not being insensitive by doing the accent that I'm kind of doing here because it's definitely a made up one.

(51:13):
No, yeah, which does kind of make it fun.
I mean, they certainly had fun with it for sure. Oh, it really seemed like it. It really did.
Message from dad and then off to the country bar and Senka is into that country bar, man.
He was having a good time. I was loving that.
That one girl like, hi.

(51:35):
You're like, howdy.
That was amazing. He's like he's at Colonial Williamsburg. He's just having a time of his life.
Junior getting encouragement from you the same way that he was just giving encouragement to him not that long ago.
That was a nice little switch around that really kind of brought the moment in.

(51:58):
Right. And then, of course, the Swiss being dicks.
And that tell me what you see scene because Junior backs off because when I think about the assholes of the world, I really think Switzerland.
Sometimes.
Like.

(52:20):
It's like the pretentious.
Pretentious. OK, I could see pretentious. Sure.
Like when you guys like the chocolate, the gold, the watches like shit like that.
Like I guarantee like I guarantee there are a ton of Swiss pricks.
Oh, I'm sure there are. It's a universal thing for sure.
Yeah, it's just it's a weirdly weird reversal.

(52:44):
Usually when you've got when you've got an international gathering and you want to have who are the shits, your choices are the French or the Germans, sometimes in his pinch, the Spanish, but very rarely.
And that's kind of it. You know, the I guess the British, if your main characters are either Scottish or Irish or Asian or Asian.

(53:08):
Like if your characters, if your characters are Asian or Indian, then British is definitely the way to go to like the guarantee that these guys are pricks.
But yeah, it's very, very rarely that we see the archetypal villains being the Swiss in the in America, in American movies, at least for sure.
OK, I'll give you that.

(53:29):
Tell me what you see scene. I see pride. I see power. I see a badass mother that don't take no crap off nobody. Love that.
A badass mother effort. They actually say mother effort.
They put a pin on the fact that they are not allowed to curse in this movie by saying I'm a badass mother effort.
Did they? Because I thought he said I'm a badass mother.

(53:52):
I thought I heard mother effort. I could be wrong. Maybe I just wanted them to cuss so badly at this point.
I think because there was like a lot of there was a lot of hype in that moment.
I'm guessing they like there was so much hype in that that you kind of took that away because that is a PG movie.
Yeah, there's no way the bomb was dropped in there.

(54:13):
No, that's my point is what is that they actually said effort.
They said mother effort. They literally not not I'm not censoring.
Oh, I have to go back to my that's my point is I mean, that's what I was.
I can very easily go and check again.
OK, well, we already know that they reedit these things.

(54:34):
Maybe I saw the original version and you saw the version where they even cut out the part where he says effort because they would do that.
The Pritz that is that is true. That is probably something they would do.
But I like that junior gets hyped up because of you.
And then he walks out and he was just like, where are you going?
Like, I really enjoyed that.
And they're right into a confrontation.

(54:55):
And the Swiss guy, come on, Jamaica, say something.
And then you make it to make it answered.
Yeah, I just like that.
They looked up because he doesn't say junior.
He doesn't call God by his name.
He just says Jamaica.
And then there you go.
There's a big ass Jamaican ready to say hi.
Right. Exactly.
Yeah. I really.

(55:16):
It's it's it's right it's right out of, you know, like Firefly where he where he's like, I'm not going to pick a fight with you.
Her on the other hand.
There you go.
Then Bannock gives a pre lecture lecture and they're all giggles until Candy shows up and talks about how much they're all hated.
He's hated.

(55:37):
He's hated and it's deserved.
They not didn't happen.
Didn't need to be in the story.
I'm going to keep talking about that because that sucks.
And like as much as I love this movie, I think that was a poor message to include in there.
Just introducing racial tension to up the drama.
There's a lot of ways to up the drama.
Our our world, our country does not need artificial racial tension.

(56:01):
No, I would have to agree with that.
Yeah, I understand that racial tension is an important message.
But yeah, including it where it didn't exist when you're supposedly doing a based on true story type thing.
Yeah, that's a that's that's a little disingenuous.
And it's probably one of the one of the reasons why when like when you hear about stuff like that, when you hear about how in real life that wasn't the case, that becomes a that becomes a reason for people to not not take it seriously when it shows up somewhere else.

(56:31):
It's like, that's probably not true.
They made it up over here.
Why wouldn't they make it up over there?
You know, kind of thing.
And so, yeah, it's that's actually a really good point that I didn't take into consideration.
But yeah, yeah, no, it's yeah, it's what it is.
Uh, ah, morning comes with an attitude change.
Rise and shine.
It's butt whipping time.

(56:53):
The winter winter trading montage leg weights running, which, by the way, if you are a person like Senka and you are not a tough guy doing leg presses right before an event is going to do nothing but make you sore.
But Disney movie, we're having fun.
Right.
And we and you know, it's a sports movie.
So there must be a last minute hardcore training montage there.

(57:17):
There you know, there is that.
But one of the physical gag from this movie that I have never forgotten is when Senka is doing those pull ups and he's like, oh, he like the way he's got like his lips going when he is rising.
His lips are the first thing to break the bottom of the frame when he is coming in for that pull up.
And that I don't know how many times they tried that.

(57:41):
I don't know how many times they worked on to set that up.
It was incredible.
And I loved it so much.
I and we get the new gear with Jamaican colors and now the qualifiers different judge.
And now it has to be a minute flat.
Bannock says the Swiss phrase to start and go I hate it.

(58:03):
Eat it.
I hate it every time he does something like that.
The tight shots down the slope this time, real high anxiety.
And I loved the fact that in a movie full of fantastic music, there was no music for this.
When they were going down the slope, there was nothing and it was a perfect decision.
No, absolutely. You got the dead silent tension of the whole thing.

(58:28):
There was, you know, we didn't really hear much from the crowd.
We basically the only thing beyond the sled moving so quickly through there is we get cutaways to John Candy basically holding his breath.
And the whole atmosphere around him is dead silent with him.
So and the perfect end for that under 60 seconds.

(58:50):
Painting the sled and cool runnings means follow your dreams.
But all the name suggestions and all that stuff, I like that.
We should call it Tallulah.
That sounds like a two dollar hooker.
That's my mother's name.
Oh, I like that name.
It's a good name.
Right.
Lovely.
Lovely. Tallulah.
Oh, no, no, no, no, no, no.
It was cheers to follow your dreams.

(59:11):
Cool runnings means he's be the journey.
Right. Right.
My bad. My bad.
Disqualified and Candy loses it at a change of policy for fear of embarrassment.
And then that line.
Great line.
Aided that I'm starting to hate that this movie did this.
Didn't realize four black guys in a sled can make you blush.

(59:33):
Great line.
That was a great line.
Yeah.
I mean, that's the thing is like this.
I mean, yes, as unnecessary as this whole added drama was.
But they were disqualified and then they were petitioned to be qualified.
So that part was true, but I don't really know why.
Okay.
But I mean, my point being that, you know, as unnecessary as like, yeah, the racial tension and all that was that scene with John Candy just hanging it to the the the Olympic board was fucking amazing.

(01:00:11):
It was a great, great scene.
It was a great scene.
It's kind of one of those things where it's like it was a pretty it was a major high point of the movie.
And so you kind of sit there and go like, okay, so yeah, this this whole sub fictional subplot, you know, kind of kind of, you know, makes the whole thing look worse than it needed to be.
But at the same time, that scene, it's a little far to say it made the movie, but it certainly was a it was probably John Candy's best part in the movie.

(01:00:41):
Yeah, for sure.
His best acting in the movie, I think.
Yeah.
But so it's kind of hard to imagine it without it, you know, but yeah, it's a question of I guess that's the question is like you say they were disqualified and then brought back, you know, brought back in real life.
What was the actual reason they were disqualified for?
Yeah, I couldn't find that.
Interesting.
Okay.

(01:01:02):
Might have been.
I mean, it might that might have been what this was.
I just don't know.
I mean, that doesn't I mean, it is understanding to say that.
Okay, so maybe in real life, they weren't finding that racial tension against with the other teams.
Maybe with the alliance.
Maybe with the alliance, because I mean, let's face it, the Olympic Alliance is not exactly known for being cuddly.

(01:01:25):
Let's be honest here.
I actually I do not really know much about it.
But when it comes to a global sports event, you wouldn't really think racism would be the biggest part of it.
Like I can see I can see I can see.
Yeah, just because of history.
But at the same time, this is a global event.
So it just doesn't really make sense.
But then I mean, racism doesn't really make sense anyway.

(01:01:47):
But right.
You know what I'm saying, though, right?
Yeah, no, I hear you're saying I wasn't sure if that was clear.
But they get back to the hotel and the alliance changes their mind and they're back in.
Now this this is the Disney magic that I really feel like they lost.
The running kid jumping up to catch the event.
Did I miss it?

(01:02:08):
Why did these moments work better in these older movies?
They don't work as well now.
The thing is, like it hit me.
It still hit me.
So it's not like they just don't work.
It's not like I aged out of that actually having an effect on me.
But I can't remember the last time I saw a movie where it actually worked.

(01:02:30):
Where the kid was, where the kid running up like it now is just kind of a gag.
But it doesn't it doesn't hit like it used to.
Yeah, that's a good question.
I don't know.
That's a really good question.
But Candy gives a prayer because he's no Gipper and like that was the Gipper.
Right.
That was a good one.
They laugh at the Jamaican themed prayer, which it was good.

(01:02:54):
The Jamaican and bobsled themes prayer.
Right.
It was good.
Daddy shows up and Junior stands up.
And I like that.
Like he looks right into the mirror of the elevator.
It says like pride, power and then different kind of Junior.
And the thing is, like where you have the parent that says you don't know who you are and all this.

(01:03:17):
Like and Junior, his speech.
I'm paraphrasing it because he said it, but he didn't actually say these words.
Just because I'm a man that you don't want me to be does not mean that I did not grow into the man that I am.
Right.
Exactly.
Yeah.
That's the sentiment behind it.
But very rarely do we actually get to see it laid out in words like that.

(01:03:41):
But that is what the sentiment is every time.
And I did like it.
I did like it.
And you'll watch is and just very encouraging.
And I love the dynamic that these two built this movie.
Very, very, very short runtime.
A lot happened during it, though.
I really appreciated that.

(01:04:02):
No, for sure.
Yeah.
And we got to see every step of the way to we saw, you know, their conflict and Junior like trying to apologize and it not being accepted.
He's basically been told, you know, you're you're a hair's breadth away from, you know, you're only still alive because we need a four man team.
Yeah, you would have taken him.
I'm pretty sure.
Right.

(01:04:23):
Yeah. And then Junior, very honestly saying, like, look, I respect your dreams.
You know, I am not going to make fun of you for carrying around a picture of Buckingham Palace.
I'm going to say, like, no, I understand where you're coming from.
I understand what it is you want.
And I think more people should be like you.
This very mutual mutual respect building.
Yes.
And then, you know, and then you'll turns around and goes like, look, you're a good guy.

(01:04:49):
You know, you just let people walk all over you.
So you need to stand up and then he stands up.
And now it's like, OK, like now we're friends.
Like I'm a little less of a dick and you're a little less of a pussy.
And now, you know, everything's great.
I like it.
And I like what Senka says here.
I'm feeling very Olympic today.
How about you?

(01:05:10):
And just everybody's looking at him like he's just the weirdest guy.
And here's kind of a cool thing.
In the American movie, USA only gets a cameo.
Like that was crazy.
Like that never happens.
And I thought that was really cool.
Like we really kind of put ourselves on a backseat on this one and helped tell the story in a really nice way.

(01:05:33):
I thought that was great.
The Jamaican's boo.
Wouldn't it be funny if that was who they made the villain?
Like instead of the Swiss, what if it was the Americans that started the fight in the bar?
Like that would have been funny.
Especially considering it was a cowboy bar.
But I figured we didn't.
But I figured, OK, the movie definitely understood that they didn't need the coach to have the conflict with the Americans and the teammates to have the conflict with the Americans.

(01:06:01):
And so I'm really glad that we did that.
They didn't do that.
That would have been too much.
It might have been a little convoluted for sure.
Yeah.
But I thought, yeah.
Then the first. You're right. It is interesting.
And then the first run and just good God, Benix, stop with all the Swiss shit.
And they can't get in for a bit too long.

(01:06:23):
And the commentator is going off just crap talking the Jamaican.
I really like the wife.
Like, oh, he better watch his mouth.
And then Mama Coffee.
Oh, he better watch more than that.
That actress only has two acting credits.
And I swear to God, she stole the show.
Right. Yeah. Why she did not continue.

(01:06:44):
I could not guess.
But a rough ride, but good enough for last place.
And candy lectures them about the knee about needing to step up.
And Bannock won't stop with all the Swiss stuff.
He's even dry. Did you notice that the jumpsuit he was wearing was even dressed like the Swiss?

(01:07:06):
Oh, I did not notice that.
No. Yeah.
He was in a red. He was in a red jumpsuit with the white lines.
He was even dressing like them.
Like he this is the first time I think I've ever noticed that.
But I hate that said, yeah, it was very sad.
It was killing me.
And oh, this is where I was talking about, like Bannock jumps up and he keeps talking about the Swiss and all the others are like, dude, enough.

(01:07:32):
And then Sanca is like, look, man, the only thing I see.
I walked to make I talked to make it. I am Jamaican.
The best I can be is Jamaican.
I that I known you since JJ asked to see you dingaling.
Right. I know I mentioned it earlier and I said I was going to skip it.
Skip over it. But I wanted to say it again.

(01:07:54):
It's a great line.
But then next they show up in their own style.
And you'll brainer he's going like, let me kiss that egg.
And we get that fantastic opening for them to go instead of Ains, Vines fight like the Swiss had.
Feel the rhythm, feel the rhyme.
Get on up. It's bobsled time.

(01:08:16):
Cool runnings.
Let's go, man.
That just gets me.
Yeah, every time that's that's got that's got a vibe to it that I can get behind.
Yeah, very much so.
Faster start time than the Swiss and a run of fifty six point three, moving them up to eighth place.
Bannock staying behind and going over the turns, just like Candy saying he would have to when he was talking about who should be the driver.

(01:08:44):
And Bannock is actually doing it.
He's staying behind. No drinks, no extra fun time, just literally doing everything that he has to.
He has that commitment.
Every turn. Yeah. Yeah.
And I love that.
Like he was really with it.
And he asked Candy why he cheated.
And explains to him that a gold medal is a wonderful thing.
But if you're not enough without it, you'll never be enough with it.

(01:09:09):
And him asking that is a hell of a thing to say.
It is a hell of a thing to say.
But him asking, how do I know if I'm enough?
And Candy's response, you'll know when you cross that finish line.
That's what a coach does, man.
Like that's a good coach and he got it.
He really did.
And day two, hey, let me kiss your lucky egg.

(01:09:34):
Which one of my personal favorite ones on this, some of your favorite lines are just your favorite.
There's no rhyme or reason to it.
Oh, yeah. You don't need to explain it.
Yeah, it's just like that one spoke to me.
And a strong start, but a rickety sled trashes them and they crash.
Help is on the way, but Senka finally with the payoff.

(01:09:57):
That's where we get the payoff. Yep.
Dereese, you dead? No, man, I'm not dead.
But I do have to finish this race.
That is the Disney magic. Yep.
And they nailed it. They absolutely nailed it.
That is exactly where you were supposed to go.
Carrying the sled and seeing all those people cheer.

(01:10:18):
I mean, even Junior's dad in the crowd ripping open his jacket and showing the Jamaican shirt, like all of this, like he's.
There's a lot of love that comes right in the end of this.
And then you get Junior and Yule bond, coach and Dereese bond and Senka and his lucky egg bond.

(01:10:40):
I like that. Just like a Shakespeare play. Everybody pairs off and gets married.
Perfect. A new photo of the four Bob's leading Olympians placed right above the old one with the sprinters like in Coolidge's office.
It's a beautiful movie, man.

(01:11:01):
Closes on the fact of talking about a true story a little bit and then saying that they returned to Jamaica as heroes and they came back for years as equals.
They went for this whole equal message and this racial tension message in the story.
But it just wasn't. This was a story about athletes, man.

(01:11:23):
It wasn't actually about racial tension.
They just had black characters and they went, oh, they're black. Let's do this, which makes it even more racist.
I suppose. But this we've had this conversation.
But this has gotten me thinking about it while while we were talking about it.
And I'm wondering if this is I mean, and we've talked about this before an example of the Tiffany problem.

(01:11:46):
So what what if they really did think that a movie about a bunch of Jamaicans coming to Canada to do a bobsled winter sport?
They thought there's no way Americans are going to watch this and not think there is racial tension because racial tension is so ubiquitous in America that if we don't have it in this movie, Americans are going to think it's bullshit.

(01:12:08):
Like, what if we what if that really was the decision making was that they really thought no one was going to watch a movie that about black people that didn't have racial tension in it?
It's a really good. I mean, I and I'm reaching here. I'm maybe trying to see what you're coming for.
By not having it, you're asking the audience to have suspension and disbelief.

(01:12:29):
That just doesn't really make sense to a lot of American audience.
Yeah, no, I didn't really know.
I'm really sorry. I'm with that. Yeah.
And it's like, you know, they're also thinking in terms of like we would like to market this to the the you know, the the American white audience because you know, that's who if you're Hollywood, you're marketing to white people.

(01:12:54):
So if you've got a movie all about black people and the only white guy is John Candy, you got to make the the white audience feel better about themselves for rooting for them.
You know, like, oh, yeah, no, I support these guys. I'm not racist.
Like that literally is probably some of the thinking of of of this is basically saying like if you like this movie, you're not racist.

(01:13:17):
Congratulations. And more people will see the movie if you if you give them that promise.
That's a little bit of a bummer note to end on.
But I do. I mean, I guess I can kind of see where you're coming from with that.
But OK, so the reason that I brought this one in is it's a lifelong favorite of mine.

(01:13:38):
My best friend and I, we watched this when we were children and we talk about it still.
We quoted like every winter we talk about it, even though we don't watch it every year, it has stayed on our minds for our entire lives.
So I am. Yeah, even though I have like shit on it a little bit because of what it's added that was not part of the true story, I still call it a must see.

(01:14:02):
OK, because of how much is actually true in it.
And you know what? The racial tensions weren't exactly that big.
No, that's true. There was no there was no derogatory terms.
There was nothing like that. So around like around there were some awkward looks.
But you could very easily attribute that to be.

(01:14:24):
Jamaica, like, yeah, like there's no snow there.
What are you doing in the Winter Olympics? Yeah, like there were a lot of weird looks and everything like that.
And set aside from Yul Brynner's line saying, you know, we're different and people always afraid of what's different.
There is no direct racial remarks except for that line from John Candy in the Alliance Room.

(01:14:47):
Right. With all of those things put together, I really do believe that this one is a must see.
It's completely entertaining. The actors in it absolutely crush it.
And it's John Candy's last film that was released when he was alive.
So. OK, definitely putting it on the.
I'm going to have to disagree with you on that one.

(01:15:11):
This is a good movie. I enjoyed it. I enjoyed it when I first saw it years ago.
I other than like I said, the the inside jokes of me and my friends repeating the lines like you're dead to each other.
I have not seen a real influence from it in future films.
You know, there is there is no well, there's no there's no staying cultural power to this one, I think.

(01:15:38):
And now that like you're telling me how much of it was changed based, you know, from the original story, that kind of brings it down for me.
Like, I would prefer to see them remake it with a little bit more honesty to it.
Where there is that, I do I do think that the aspect of.
We got what we got. Right.
And this is the story of the Jamaican bobsled team and.

(01:16:02):
You know, it's not perfect. They did not and they didn't put it out as a true story.
That was one of the that was one of the key things about is they didn't sell it as a true story, even though it was.
I guess that's true. Right. Yeah, I see your point there. OK.
Like they just like the real events were a couple of businessmen that were a couple of American businessmen were in Jamaica.

(01:16:24):
And they had the idea when they saw one of the soapbox.
So box Derby. Yeah.
I think they called it something different in the movie.
But they saw one of the races compared to the bobsledding and they had the idea.
So they connected with the Jamaican military and they came with some pretty intense, you know.

(01:16:49):
Physical beasts and they went to it.
I don't want to see that story.
That story, that story sounds like a bummer.
I mean, kind of. Yeah.
Like I'd like I like the fictional version of it.
I think it's wildly and incredibly entertaining and.

(01:17:12):
People when people talk about a product of its time, I think this is a product of its time and in the best way.
Sure. OK. And I can see that.
And yeah, like I said, I it's a fun movie. I enjoyed it.
But yeah, it kind of like for me, it goes in the same as like, you know, like drowning Mona. Great film. Loved it.
I can't honestly suggest that someone spend their precious time on it.

(01:17:34):
I don't think it's it's that worth it.
I put it more along the lines of secondhand lines.
OK, so yeah, your enjoyment, your your enjoyment.
No bad acting, no unnecessary moments. Great editing, great action moments.
A lot of heart like.

(01:17:56):
It's just it's a movie that I feel is guaranteed to hit home.
OK, like you're like, like, but I'm not basing it off of the same metrics that you are for what I would qualify a must see the cultural significance and things like that.
No, I'm talking about I think if it's a guaranteed movie that you're absolutely going to enjoy, that's kind of where I pick it up as a must see.

(01:18:23):
OK, because it's not like, no, no, no, man, like you might like this one's like, no, you're going to have a good time.
I'm guaranteeing you a good night.
A movie with all the new stuff that's coming out with all the many, many thousands of hours of new content being created these days.
If I'm going to ask someone to go watch a movie from the 90s, it has to contribute in some way to what they're watching now.

(01:18:49):
It has to be something. It would be something that would expand their enjoyment of what they're getting now.
Oh, see, I just I send people back to like movies from like the 90s and stuff like that because they were just better.
I don't agree with that. I think there's a lot of stuff that's way better now than back then.
Oh, man, the the film style now, a lot of it like the old like.

(01:19:13):
Perfect example, what is it Liam Neeson taking 20 cuts to get over a fence like digital filmmaking has caused a lot of just garbage filmmaking.
The ease of just, oh, we'll go with this take instead of this take and stuff like that instead of like, oh, crap, we need to go back and get it right.
And the need to get it right is way not not a thing as much as it used to be.

(01:19:40):
I suppose that is partially true. Yes. All right.
We're back with part two of tonight's episode and it's going to be living in oblivion.
Doc, this one was, let's see, unexpected.
Yeah, let's go unexpected. Like that was unexpected.
OK, yes. And I saw this movie when it first came out, man.

(01:20:03):
And so like, oh, damn. Yeah.
No, this movie blindsided me six ways to Sunday.
And I think the crazy thing was.
So and I know you're about to get into it, but I'm going to go ahead and jump ahead.
This is Peter Dinklage's big screen debut in this movie.
So I got to see this and then I got to watch the rest of his career after this.

(01:20:29):
And let me tell you, after watching Living Oblivion, zero surprises for the rest of his career.
Because he shows up unexpectedly in this movie out of nowhere, burns the fucking house down and then walks away.
And you go, this guy is going places from here on out.
Oh, one hundred percent that. Yeah, we're going to get into it.

(01:20:53):
Yeah. All right. You ready?
Ready.
Living in Oblivion, written and directed by Tom DeSillo, starring Steve Buscemi,
Catherine Keener, Dermot Mulroney, Danielle Von Zernick and Peter Dinklage.
And oh, my God, he hit the ground running. He really, really did. Yeah.

(01:21:16):
I mean, wow. It's going to take a while before we get to talking about him because he is a third actor.
And like the last 15. Yeah, he's like in the last 15 minutes. He all but ends the movie.
OK. And opens on an outstandingly cool title card shot for the credits with that film camera that ends on the close up of the lens.

(01:21:39):
That I. Simple, very, very, very, very simple, fricking beautiful.
Right. Yeah. And I brought this up before and I probably will bring it up every time we get an example of it.
The Lost Art of the Movie Overture. When they aren't starting the movie right away, they show us some sort of animation or scene sequence or something,

(01:22:00):
something that makes us sit there and read the credits and get a feel for the movie before it starts.
We don't see much of that nowadays. That's that's kind of a loss.
There is there is a lot of examples of it after a cold open, but not as many going right into it.
That's true. The Deadpool movies are all about that.

(01:22:21):
The first two, especially the first two, they have they have a cold open and then they go in on that fantastic stylized credits.
Yeah. The OK. So I wrote the notes.
I was like, this is black and white and the bad milk discussion while the camera truck arrives and the crew talking about that day's shots.

(01:22:43):
And Kevin Corrigan fucking goon shows up and his what's his first line?
What is his first line? Hey, we're shooting any nudity today.
This movie is kind of ripe with a listers.
Except holy crap, the gross.

(01:23:07):
He like Brad Pitt had accepted that role, but he had to back out because of a scheduling conflict with Legends of the Fall.
Damn. So this almost had Brad Pitt in it as well.
Wow. Wow. That would have been Jesus. That would have made this movie more surreal than ever.
That would have made this movie iconic. Yeah.

(01:23:28):
That is the only thing that was missing. Especially because the only thing.
Right. I'm assuming that that he would have played that their their their guest star role and it would have been.
Yeah. Jesus Christ. Yeah.
And what we didn't get much comedy from Brad Pitt back then, but not what we know of him now.

(01:23:49):
That would have been like one of the first examples of him bringing that kind of comedy to the screen.
And it like, yep, that would have made this absolutely iconic.
It really sucks that he missed it for Legends of the Fall.
Yeah, I know. I mean, Legends of the Fall movie.
But and then it made his career for sure.
That's you know, it's what made him a star.

(01:24:10):
So, I mean, I guess in that regards, it was a smart move on his part for him.
Yeah. Dermot Mulroney as Wolf staring off into the distance about his genius kind of vibe.
I really like. OK. So, by the way, this movie is definitely a love letter for indie filmmakers.
So for you and I, yeah, this is going to hit us so hard.

(01:24:33):
That's the thing. But for general audiences, I don't know how much of this.
Like, I think what was the movie that we covered? American movie. Not that one.
Not that one. No, the one with Keegan-Michael Key. Oh, don't think twice. Yes.
OK, there you go. Like, don't think twice.
I completely agree with you. Wild must see for people like us, not for general audiences.

(01:24:58):
Living in oblivion. Like, I'm jumping right into this.
It is a must see for people like us. Question for general audiences, except for the film debut of Thinklage.
OK, like you were saying. OK. So that's where like as we're going through it, I want you to kind of know that's where I'm seeing this.

(01:25:19):
The driver talking to Keener and getting a little bit too personal about the mom stuff.
And like the first mention of the Richard Gere movie, which brought a theme that kept going through the entire movie.
Right. Yeah, she was she was in a Richard Gere movie and that's where everybody knows her from.
And so, yeah, she's the she's the lead actress in this little cheap indie film that they're making.

(01:25:42):
And everyone's talking about like, oh, yeah, just see her in that Richard Gere movie.
Yep. Like the shower scene, the shower scene in that Richard Gere movie. Yep.
And the mom played by Rika Martens, which what a frickin' dub.
Like, I was not expecting this in any way and we are going to get to it.
But the mom played by Rika Martens running lines as she gets picked up for an awkward car ride.

(01:26:07):
And Steve Buscemi is our director and he's not going to settle for OK.
Going and he's like sitting there going over the shot up shot set up because we got everything the day before.
He's like, yeah, but we didn't get it the way I wanted it.
He's already he's already kind of like giving his line producer like a lot of shit going like, you know, you made me quit, you know, for the you know, yesterday when, yes, we got everything and it was OK.

(01:26:32):
But not today. Today we're not leaving until I get it the way I want.
And his line producers like, sure. Yeah, whatever you say. OK. Uh huh.
Like she knows he's full of shit. Yes. Agreeing with him just this to get the ball rolling.
Like so people don't know when you're on an indie film set, every day starts out with the absolute hope that it's going to be the best day ever.
And pretty much every day ends with everybody pulling their goddamn hair out because it's an independent film set.

(01:26:59):
A lot of times your cameraman doesn't know the right lens to use for this type of shot.
The person who stepped up to be your gaff or your key grip, they really don't know what they're doing.
They just wanted to be there for the day and they kind of lied and like right indie film sets are a nightmare until they're not right.
But the chance I think the best. Yeah. The best example of that, I think, is the smoke machine later on.

(01:27:24):
We can get into like that. That I think I'm sitting here going like I have had this conversation before.
Oh, my God. Yep. That's the thing. That's the thing.
OK, they're having that conversation and like somebody strikes the light and you know what?
Flame on is a much better phrase than striking. Yeah.

(01:27:45):
No, I've always liked that as well. Yes. I think I think he's shouting flame on before you turn your lights on.
I mean, come on. Why not? How is that not the industry standard? That does not make any sense.
I mean, good God, that makes that makes all the sense in the world to have it be that way. Right.
But oh, my God, going from the behind the the BTS story in black and white to the film in color.

(01:28:10):
Jesus Christ, I was not ready for it. It caught me completely off guard and it blew me away.
I thought it was amazing how starkly different because they didn't just go from black and white to color.
They went from really, really cheap black and white like it looked like clerks when it was in black and white.
Yeah. And then when they go to shooting, seeing the actual movie scene, it's not just color.

(01:28:34):
It's fucking MGM technicolor. Like we're talking miles apart in quality.
Can you imagine how much money they saved by like deciding to do the film that way?
I mean, yeah, only needing the expensive equipment for certain shots and they were able to get away with like low grade equipment for the other ones.
That was that was brilliant. Yeah.

(01:28:58):
And it was it was it's a brilliant, brilliant budgetary decision on top of a brilliant artistic decision in the delivery of their story.
Like it's a it's a double whammy right there. Yeah.
The boom or the boom shows up in the shot, they call for a cut and then that one boom mic operator.
What I asked for a frame line. By the way, I'm impersonating a white guy.

(01:29:20):
Yeah, that's that's that's the hilarity of that moment is a movie set in the 90s with the white guy like going full vanilla ice.
Yeah, it was. And that's it was fantastic.
And I like that from the line producer. Thank you for your apology, but you'll never work in this town again.
Which.

(01:29:47):
The ego of indie filmmakers, I love it, but I still think she was like making it an onset joke.
Oh, I'm sure. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Because because you said it so calmly and so cool. Yeah. It was like, like, thank you for apologizing. You're still a fuck up.
Let's move on. Now we got music.
And like, literally, this is that kind of moment. Everything is going wrong.

(01:30:10):
You're trying to set it up. You're waiting for the music to die down. You're waiting for things to get quiet.
So you can take it when you do not have a controlled set. Yeah.
You just got you just got to wait.
You have no idea how long somebody is going to be honking their horn because they're like the light won't turn green.
Right. That is real as hell. You have no.
You when you're when you don't have money for a set, so you got to film in your own kitchen and you have no control over whether or not your neighbor's marriage is going well.

(01:30:38):
Like, holy shit. Oh, that's a thing. Oh, my God.
And Wanda wants to know if it's really locked up and back to one.
Switching to the switching to radios because the boom just can't stay out of the shot.
And I like that. Like the frame line keeps changing.
And then Dermot Mulroney, it's supposed to be changing. Right.

(01:30:59):
Because they're they're tracking a shot from tight in and they're bringing it out.
And so, yeah, the frame line keeps changing and the boom operator can't seem to to figure out where he's supposed to be.
Which after all of my time working with independent filmmakers and stuff like that, some who went to film school, some who didn't.
And when I got down and I spent some time in L.A., I finally did my very first student film.

(01:31:24):
And it was as horrifying as everybody says it would be.
But then I but I found out why and I found out how important it is.
And when I realized what was going on, yes, it was a nightmare.
That was probably the most patients that I ever showed on on any set.
And it was because like the guy who was the director for this student film told me is that well, last time he was the director and I was the boom.

(01:31:51):
My operator. I'm like, wait, what?
And they get assigned.
So as you're going through film school, the director, by the by the time you're at the end where you become a director or whatever, you have done everybody's role and you understand the nightmare they go through, the stress that they're under.
You know what? It is a nightmare experience for actors.

(01:32:12):
However, I do think it is kind of an important thing that more actors should step up for student films to let these kids have a good experience and to help them along the way.
Like I said, it was a nightmare.
It was the worst set I had ever been on.
However, still important.
Yeah, that's cool.

(01:32:34):
It's very cool.
I'm not that's it.
I kind of wish I did.
I wish I did more student films, but I also wish I actually attended film school.
You know, maybe maybe things would have gone better for me if I had done that.
You know what?
You never really know, but it's good to learn the rules so you know how to break them.
Yes, I do.

(01:32:55):
I do think that that is an important thing.
In fact, didn't I say that about your writing once?
Well, OK, yes, you have, but also like my grandpa said that to me when I was like five. My dad said that to me when I mean, you know, I mean, it's a cliche for a reason because it never stops being true.
That's very good point.

(01:33:16):
Yes, back to scene.
He's struggling and then shakes it off.
Blew the light and damn, dude, when that light blew, that was like that was a bigger jump scare than a lot of horror movies for me, man.
I know, right? Because, yeah, they really they blew that light right in that old lady's face like with no warning whatsoever.
I didn't even foreshadow it.

(01:33:37):
We have zero like usually when you have some kind of like technical thing like that in a movie, they'll foreshadow it by like having someone go like, oh, this old bulb or we'll see a close up of the frayed wire or something like that.
No, this came out of left fucking field.
We did not see this coming at all.
No, it was great.
Fucking great.
Yes, it was.
I wish more movies did that.
We don't need to foreshadow every disaster.

(01:33:58):
No, you don't need Chekhov's wet wire.
Like, no, right.
Exactly.
Just have something go down.
Yep.
Everyone is trying to talk to the director.
Sorry.
Everyone is trying to talk the director out of trying for this shot and then Wolf's unbelievable vanity.
And then he's just checking himself out in the little mirror and all that.
And by the way, Dermot, Dermot Mulroney's character in this wolf, he's got the leather jacket and then under the leather jacket, it's got a leather vest with a ribbon tied around his biceps and he's wearing a beret and he is very much in love with himself.

(01:34:35):
Like this guy is trying really, really hard for a very specific vibe.
Yes, he is.
And I think it's all for that girl.
It's all for Wanda.
But yeah, you're probably right.
But the thing is, like in the dream sequences, you see him as this like crazy, vain, douchey dude.
But when you see him in the real in the real life version, he's actually a very sweet character.

(01:35:01):
So what I thought the brilliance behind those dream sequences was that they were dreaming over what he looked like and their perspective and their perception of him.
But then we actually get to see him.
He's a very sweet, very emotional, very kind guy.
Yeah, like I thought that was like very, very subtle brilliance that never needed to be called out.

(01:35:22):
No attention needed to be paid to and the story, the movie never paid it off in any way.
They just gave that character that little bit of story.
I thought that was really clever.
Right. Yeah.
Well, in a way, we kind of almost have three short films here because we have dream sequence after dream sequence and then finally reality.
And so we have two stories that are essentially the unreliable narrator.

(01:35:47):
And then we finally get the reality of the situation, which is not that much different from the dreams with save for a few character motivations.
That is true.
Back to one and I have like most of my notes start with back to one.
Well, it is a film set.
So and I'm realizing this now back to one means like resetting the scene back to the first part of the scene, the first line, the first shot, whatever.

(01:36:16):
It's back to one just for the non film nerds that are paying attention.
But back to one, Rika forgets her line and Corrigan cracks on it.
Oh, the way he cracked on it to kind of broke my heart.
She's like because her lines like I don't even remember Danny or whatever.

(01:36:38):
And then Corrigan's like, I don't remember that at all.
Yes. Yeah. I don't remember that at all.
And then Corrigan says, I don't remember that line at all.
And everybody starts laughing at this old woman.
And I'm like, oh, yeah.
No, like it did a good moment on that.
Back to one lines are out of order and Keener starts flashing back to real life.

(01:36:59):
It kind of looked like like when the old woman kind of like brushed her hair over, like she started having flashbacks of like her like some other old woman brushing her hair.
So it looks like she was almost like it was like a genuine maternal moment.
Like, and we do see, like in the conversation, we do see in her conversation with the cabbie that she had, she had the outs with her, her mom, but her mom passed away before they could reconcile.

(01:37:25):
So this weirdly very maternal moment between these two actors seems to have set off her actual like emotions.
And so now she's now she's like seriously delivering some emotion in the lines all of a sudden.
And isn't it just like in real life that when the camera's not rolling, that is when you get the perfect line read, the perfect rehearsal.

(01:37:49):
And the director, he's right, he's right.
Start rolling, start rolling.
Shouldn't we wait for the cameraman?
That was great.
Turns around, where the fuck is Wolf?
That was great.
That was absolutely fantastic.
And he's off in the bathroom throwing up the bad milk, which we get from the extras at the beginning, which that one, the woman at the beginning who's talking about the milk, we never see her again.

(01:38:20):
No, we don't.
No, she's not on the crew other than outside.
No, he is.
Yeah.
The other, like that guy, he's trying to like hook his script in the second dream sequence.
Yeah.
But no, we never see her again.
She's actually like making the sandwiches and stuff like that.
Yeah, no, she's I think she's supposed to be the outside crew.
Like when the line producers like yelling, like, do you have the street locked down?

(01:38:44):
I think it's her she's talking to.
Wait a minute.
Wait a minute, wait a minute, wait a minute.
In the second dream sequence, there is that brunette that is like paired up and shit talking keener.
Was that her?
If I.
That's a good question.
I don't know.
Okay.
She was all bundled up at the beginning.
She was all bundled up, so I actually I actually don't know.

(01:39:05):
I might be wrong about this because I don't remember her character being anywhere else in the movie outside that second dream sequence.
Right.
So, okay.
Okay.
I have no problem going back and watching this one again.
Like this was a fun one.
Back to one.
And then someone's watch starts beeping and Buscemi goes nuts on everyone.

(01:39:27):
Yeah.
Which I mean, okay.
Yes.
Yes.
Can't you relate?
Completely.
That's the thing is that yeah, it's like I'm sure every director, indie and professional,
and I'm sure even Spielberg himself has envisioned that day when he just turns around and just

(01:39:49):
bitches out every single person on the crew, every cameraman, every grip, every boom mic,
every actor.
I'm sure that there were days when Steven Spielberg wanted to call Tom Hanks a little
bitch to his face.
I know those days have happened, but we've all held it inside because we all know that

(01:40:10):
this is what getting it done is more important.
But in this, this is the scene where Buscemi's character can't take it anymore.
He snaps.
He took it.
It went one, one too many things went wrong.
See that's I'm really glad that you brought that up and I was going to bring it up later,
but it does kind of make sense to bring it up here.

(01:40:35):
When you have that later, now I'll get to it then.
So we snap out of it and dude, that was all a dream.
It was all a dream.
I got a whole freaking third of the movie and then I sat there.
I was like, wait a minute, are we about to get the title card?
And then I was like, wait a minute.
I already drooled over the title card.

(01:40:59):
Was that a 35 minute long cold open?
I was, I was kind of ready for that to happen because you know, I mean, I knew Dinkley,
you told me Dinklage was in this.
My brain always goes to Game of Thrones because of Dinklage and that iconic role.
Like I mean, good God, Tyrion Lannister.
But there are a lot of like Game of Thrones episodes at the, like the, the title card

(01:41:22):
doesn't actually play until like halfway through the episode.
Oh right.
Yeah, that's true.
So my brain was like still kind of being like, is this just a Dinklage thing?
Like I was one, I was like, did he just like kind of come on set and come on set and be
like, Hey, I have this idea.
And then HBO took it and they were like, no, like my brain was playing games with it for

(01:41:44):
a little bit.
And I was like, this is wild.
Then Wanda and Wolf waking up and Wolf is insecure about Chad Palomino taking Wanda
to a club.
I'm sorry.
Palomino.
They, they named their, their superstar prima Donna.
His name is Chad Palomino.
Yes, it is.

(01:42:06):
Holy shit.
Like could we, could we put a brighter neon sign over who this guy is?
Oh, it was great.
But here's the thing.
Wanda getting ready and like putting like the extra perfume on and doing all this stuff
and getting all dolled up for him and like Wolf's reactions.

(01:42:27):
I was, I was with Wolf all the way and I'm like, Oh God, Oh God, dude, no.
And then he gets stabbed in the eye and I'm like, all right, way to have this happen on
a day like today, which I'm going to say there was some continuity issues with this movie.
Like you are aware of that, right?
Oh, well, sure.
Yeah.

(01:42:47):
Like some pretty epic ones actually.
I don't know if I, none of the epic, maybe I missed them.
Okay.
The eyepatch, the eyepatch, the eyepatch should not have been in the second dream sequence
because that happened in real life.
Oh, that's right.
And it was a major, major part of the second dream sequence.

(01:43:10):
No, actually, I think, I think her dream started immediately.
What do you mean?
Because the whole thing that when he's talking about is that, is that she's going, you know,
she's going out with Palomino after work, you know, and that's why she's getting all
dolled up or Wanda.
Yeah.

(01:43:30):
Wanda is talking about how she's going to go out with Palomino after work and that's
why she's getting all dolled up and Wolf, supposedly her boyfriend is like, dude, what,
no, what?
But see that was, that was a real, uh, in the movie's context, a real world scene in
between the dreams.
I don't think it was.
That's the thing.
And why was he wearing the eyepatch in the, in like in the final?

(01:43:55):
And why was Wanda wearing that outfit and has the, had the perfume?
See, that's what's confusing me about it because I feel like, like that was even like the fact
that, that, um, um, what's her name?
The lead actress, Keener, who actually Keener.
Yeah.
Never actually like in real life, even slept with Palomino.

(01:44:17):
Like I feel like that whole thing.
No, that never happened.
That was her dream.
Yeah.
But, but in her dream, he had an eye patch, which Chad stole at a certain point and Wendy
was wearing the same outfit and the perfume that like, cause Chad was like somebody between
you two smells good.
And then in the final, in the final act of the film, she's wearing that outfit.

(01:44:41):
Wolf says that he's glad she wore that perfume.
They do have the conversation about the jazz and stuff like that because Chad's not feeling
sick or Chad's feeling sick.
So you couldn't come to set that day.
So all of that did happen in real life.
So that scene took place in between the dream sequences and there was a huge continuity
error because Wanda should never have been wearing that outfit and nobody should have

(01:45:04):
known about that eye patch or Wanda should have been, or, or he just shouldn't have had
an eye patch for the end of the film.
That's a really good question.
I'm wondering if that was a continuity error or deliberate misdirect.
That's huge, huge continuity error.
If, if that is what it was, that's a good, okay.
Well, now I'm going to have to go study this again.

(01:45:26):
Hey, like I said, I have no problem going.
Yeah, I have no problem.
I mean, definitely later on this week or next week because I got something.
Yeah.
This is a week.
Yeah.
Let's see.
Da da da da da da da.
Ushemi hanging in car waiting and the driver doesn't even know that he's the director.
Ah, because this is not a taxi.

(01:45:49):
This is the driver for the movie.
So you should, you would think that the direct, that he would know who the director is or
something.
Yeah.
You know, he's like, no, you're like, you're definitely a behind the camera kind of guy.
You must be the cameraman, right?
Like, oh yeah.
The look on his face.
I felt so bad for him.
Then Chad Palamino played by James LaGrosse getting shown.

(01:46:13):
By the way, this dude has had an epic career.
He has owned being the douchebag.
Yeah, he really has.
He's very, he's got a lot of comedy behind.
He can laugh at himself.
You can really tell that.
He looks like who Kato Kaelin was trying to be.
Who?
Nevermind.
I don't have time to explain.

(01:46:34):
Okay, moving forward.
But he's getting shown his place by Keener and off into the car to brag about his next
two roles with big, big leading female stars, including Winona Ryder, which he did have
a movie with Winona Ryder that did come out the next year.
So that was a, that was a really cool little line there.

(01:46:55):
Well, it was great too is that he's what he's talking about.
He's like, I play a serial killer that this, uh, sexy serial killer, right?
Sexy serial killer that a starlet falls in love with.
And then I play Winona Ryder's rapist that she later falls in love with.
Like he, like these are like, this guy's basically saying I've clearly been typecast as myself.

(01:47:18):
He just got, like, he just got, uh, knocked off by the woman that he slept with the night
before while he was trying to knock her off.
So he like gets in the car and he's got to talk about how like big he is and like all
these women and stuff like that to kind of recover his ego for himself.
That's true.
Yeah.

(01:47:39):
At least that's what I thought the scene was saying.
And that makes sense.
Yeah.
But either, even if you don't catch the subtlety of it, you basically get the, this guy's really
full of himself.
Oh, yeah.
No, there's an in your face joke there.
Like, like, no, there's, yeah, there's a double entendre.
There you go.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Waiting on Keener and LaGrosse almost let slip.

(01:47:59):
He knows that she was in the shower and that look from Buscemi, like, how do you know this?
Like, dude, you know, come on.
The crew talking about future ambitions.
Corrigan likes Keener and Whiteman, Whiteman, not sure how to pronounce this guy's name.

(01:48:19):
Whiteman brought a script to pitch and that's, yeah, we've all been there.
We've all been on set.
We all know it like I'm going to leave a set on the chair over here.
All that.
Oh shit.
I did that.
No, I, I dropped my headshot.
I was on the set of Grim and I dropped my headshot on a couple, like a few places around

(01:48:43):
the set.
I was like, you know, man, I just, I just had a very fuck it attitude that day.
And then it was about two months later, I got cast on Grim.
So I mean, I don't know if that was a coincidence.
I mean, that could totally be a coincidence.
You know, people just probably pick it up and toss it as soon as they see it.
You're like, chances of anybody actually saw it.

(01:49:05):
But no, that was kind of, yeah, I wound up on Grim very, very shortly after that.
So God, I completely forgot that I pulled that douche move.
But it worked.
So who cares?
That's the most, that's the most infuriating thing about it all.
That's why douches keep doing the douche moves is because it only needs to work once to justify

(01:49:30):
it.
That is fair.
And I only did that once and it may have worked.
But God, actually there were like six things that happened that night.
God, that was a whole, that is a whole ass story.
Another time, man.
Preparation H on the eyes.
I'm curious if that's a real thing.
Because you know, when you get on film sets and stuff like that, you're going to run into

(01:49:52):
all the secrets and stuff like that.
By the way, because of how epically thick my beard is, my grandfather taught me a way
to shave out in the field with perfect ease.
Oh, little bit of Vaseline straight razor.
Oh, sure.
That makes sense.
Yeah, it makes all the sense in the world.
Why don't people do that more often?
I have no idea that it works so much better than shaving green.

(01:50:15):
But the point is when you get on these sets where you just kind of have to make things
work, you find out all the things that do work.
The preparation H1, like I said, I'm curious.
La Grosse has that uber energy as they're going over the scene.
And Wolf has that eye patch that I was talking about earlier.

(01:50:36):
And just what a great decision.
Because his eye got dinged by a feather pillow.
So they like wonderful decision for the movie to set up a tough guy, have him look like
a tough guy and then just be weak, emotional and just the guy who just is like, somebody
cuddle me.
Right.

(01:50:57):
I thought like Dermot Moroney played it perfectly.
Oh, he really, yeah, no, he really did.
His career since then also no surprises.
Oh, yeah, absolutely.
And now shooting is in black and white because real life is in color.
Which, good God, I could not stop loving that aspect.

(01:51:19):
That was so good.
But now in this one, we don't have the grainy cheap black and white like we had before.
This is a very sharp, almost like a Hitchcock film.
Very stark, very high quality.
I'm looking for.
Yeah.
Like the gradients, you know, the very, very black blacks, very, very white whites.

(01:51:40):
The contrast, the saturation.
Contrast.
Thank you.
And really, really good contrast black and white film with like zero grain on it.
Like, yeah, no, very different from the black and white film we saw earlier.
Yeah.
The gross changes the cues mid shot.
I mean, the scene is just wildly lacking love and they go into a little discussion about
it.

(01:52:01):
Back to one.
This time the camera smacks the director, which.
Because they're trying to follow because because they had blocking, but the actor decided he
didn't like the blocking.
He's all full of energy and he wants to move around.
And so the director not wanting to piss off his one name star in this movie is like, OK,

(01:52:22):
fine, move around.
So the camera's trying to follow him swinging left and swinging right, smacking people in
the heads as it's going.
Like this is a this is a new version of like this is not where everything went wrong in
the first scene.
This one, everything is going wrong, but it's deliberate because there's one guy who's just
doing everything wrong.
And I was curious.

(01:52:43):
So you did catch on like because I'm getting this.
I'm good.
I'm reading into what happened at the beginning of the day.
They slept together.
He got blown off and then he's coming.
He's like, no, no, no, I've got to make it all about me.
So he keeps changing the blocking of the shot.
So it's not her face that sees the camera, but she has to keep turning her head and talking

(01:53:03):
back to him because the camera's over here and he's looking at the camera, getting all
the face time.
So he's doing everything he can to remove as much face time as he possibly can, which
just kept reminding me of that episode of Friends with Susan Sarandon.
I don't remember that one.
So she plays a soap opera star and she comes in and she has this little relationship with

(01:53:27):
Joey and she like teaches him how to do it.
Like, and when you kiss somebody, make sure you put both hands on the sides of their face.
You're like, oh, so it looks more emotional.
Like, no, so the camera can only see you.
So like the rest of like the rest.
So they have a love scene like later on and they both just put each other's hands like
over each other's faces and cover it up.

(01:53:49):
So because of like how like what I was watching in the scene and him just continuously trying
to steal all the face time with the blocking, I kept flashing to that episode of Friends.
Okay.
All right.
There were reasons.
Oh my God, that wet kiss after.
Like, just that string of saliva going between the two actors.

(01:54:09):
They really like, man, I like that's kind of one of those things where I'm like, how
did they, how many takes that need that require?
Like how like, like that was so.
I'm hoping that that was unintentional and they just, they got solid gold just on accident
there.
It was crossed.
Yeah.

(01:54:30):
But then I love this back to one and they're talking like, well, it's like, what do you
want acting?
Do you want acting or you want his face?
Well, I thought I could get both.
That was the line.
That was, and also Dermot Mulroney's energy towards the gross, this everything, everything.

(01:54:51):
Yeah.
He is petty.
He hates him all this and he just sells it so well.
Good God.
It was so, I loved it.
Uh, changing lighting for La Grosse and then talking to the actors who are just wildly
cold with each other at this point back to one and he throws them somebody help me.

(01:55:14):
Like good God.
Like he's throwing a wrench and literally everything is like, well, you like the blocking
has changed so many times.
I don't know what's going on.
Somebody help me.
Like dude.
You're the one who changed it every time.
And that's, that's the thing, man.
I was like, that was the one part.

(01:55:35):
Cause it's like, I mean, first of all, this was a movie about a low budget movie.
I've never done low budget films.
I've done zero budget films.
So I've never, I've never even had like that one name guy that we all got a kiss up to
in order to keep the funding and all sort of stuff.
So luckily of all the horror stories that I have, I've never had to deal with the prima

(01:55:55):
donna actor like that.
Like that's been on those sets, but I've gotten lucky every time.
Yeah.
I got to work with Billy Zane.
Ooh, there you go.
Yeah.
That guy was the chillest of all.
Like he was handing the PAs joints.
No, he was, no, I feel like I've gotten the big budget ones.

(01:56:17):
I have a few bad stories, but like the, like the lower, like the higher end of like the
indie, like those sets I've been on.
Oh, I don't think I have any bad stories of those ones.
Like I said, the indie world horrifying until it's not.
Then when you got like the crew that's like been together for like 15 years and they just

(01:56:38):
never wanted to go into the, like the sag world and stuff like that.
That's a great set.
I imagine so.
Yeah.
No, that's a diff, that's an entirely different situation.
It's the trying to scramble a crew together that's never worked together to with the director
who thinks that they're the most brilliant person in the world and they think that what

(01:56:59):
they're doing is going to be genius instead of let's see, let's get together.
Let's do what we can do and stay in fluid, which is how it should be until you actually
have the kind of money and control to control the set.
But if you haven't got there, man, you don't deserve that ego and damn the amount of people

(01:57:22):
that I saw that had it.
Immediately, Legros wants a full change to make it his scene and Wolf does not like it.
Change it all and Legros goes to flirt.
And I'm sorry, man, but keener with that Uranus joke.
A++.
I don't know his sign, but I think his moon is in Uranus.

(01:57:47):
And we get a great spit take from Wanda on that one.
Not just a spit take, a fantastic one.
Kind of like done so well, you almost think it was like that.
Like it was an improv scene almost because it was just, it was too perfect.

(01:58:07):
Because Wanda loses her shit a little bit too much.
That looked more like a blooper than an actual scene.
It really did.
If that is how I love when they leave those in movies.
So personal hope that that's what happened.
Then Wolf, oh, Whiteman hands the script and gets rejected because he hands him the script.

(01:58:28):
He's like, and he uses the script to check the light and do all this.
And he's like, can you go fix it and hands it back to him?
Like a true dude.
I mean, Legros really did.
Oh, that actually reminds me.
Legros has never said who it was, but he based all of this character's decisions and all

(01:58:50):
of it off of an actor that he just finished working with.
So there is an A-lister that he just finished working with that is that kind of person.
And I wanted, I meant to, I meant to go back to his IMDB and look at the preview.
His credits to try and figure out who that might be.
But those are all his like portrayals of somebody that he had just worked with.

(01:59:14):
So a little bit of shout out to Legros on that one.
But that's kind of the funny thing is like to a certain degree, we always figured because
we've heard about these guys before, I always figured that this character was an amalgam
of maybe three or four different actors that these people had worked with before.
But if he's saying that, no, no, this is all one guy.

(01:59:37):
Oh, wow.
Wow.
But he's, he has gone, he's like, I'll never say who it was, but those are all direct actions
taken from a guy, from one dude.
That's, that is nuts.
Wolf and Wanda arguing on set and his just melancholic.

(01:59:59):
I lost my eye patch.
He was fine because he doesn't have his eye patch.
And as we can see, his eye is fine.
He didn't need it.
He's just sad that now he can't look injured anymore.
Yep.
You can't, you can't get attention from his girl.
That's all it was.
And oh yeah.

(02:00:20):
And then the gross fine.
I'll get my own eye patch.
And then he steals Wolf's eye or no, no, no, no, no, no.
Yeah.
We were, they're about to start the show.
We're about to start the next take and the gross turns around and he's got the eye patch
on and they're like, and the push him.
He's like, what the fuck are you doing?
No man.
And Wolf, the camera, I was like, son of a bitch has my eye patch.

(02:00:44):
No, that was a fantastic scene at the moment.
I loved it.
And then like he rips it off, throws it back to me.
He's like, give it back.
That's that's unsanitary.
Right.
And he throws it back and he was like, fine.
I'll get my own eye patch.
Good God.
Why?
But then the way that Buscemi tricks him into not wanting an eye patch.

(02:01:05):
Oh, I know.
Right.
I didn't want to say this to Wolf, but.
And it makes him look gay.
And then like Chad looks back at him and goes, yep.
Oh, thanks, man.
Thanks.
Good looking out.
He played him so well.
Yeah.
That is how you handle a character like that.

(02:01:27):
And dude, that was I love it.
That was fantastic.
New blocking and the acting is so bad.
Keener, like in the hair thing, and he's just like pulling her hair, basically pulling her
hair in front of her face so the camera won't see her face.
He's like going in for like like an overly like an overly really like not, you know,

(02:01:49):
involved in the scene, like I'm going to stroke your hair, but I'm going to stroke your hair
so badly that it's like it's like I'm it's like I'm stuck to you somehow.
Like I've got gum in my hand.
Oh, yeah.
It was bad.
Like it was like it was real bad.
Yeah.
Then Keener hears La Grosse tell Buscemi about last night and then starts playing them.

(02:02:10):
Yeah.
Back to one.
The angry take confesses the events of the previous evening in front of them all and
then just constantly hostess Twinkie motherfucker.
Like what the shit was that?
And then the best part of this scene is them just the Rwanda jumping in just shouting,

(02:02:32):
get off his hair, get off his hair, because Keener just lit everything up and there is
a full set fight.
Well, OK, so you caught why he was calling him a hostess Twinkie motherfucker was because
of their earlier scene.
No, what was it?
So when he was telling him about the other roles that he was doing, when he's asking

(02:02:52):
him about, you know, it's like, you know, oh, he's like, I'm in this movie with one
on a writer and I'm in this, you know, so and so he's like, oh, yeah, that's great.
He says, but you know, it's all Hollywood hostess Twinkie shit.
This is the real.
This is the real.
So he's basically saying like all this big budget Hollywood stuff, it's all hostess Twinkie
fake, lame, sugary shit.
This indie movie.
This is where the real this is where the real.

(02:03:13):
Oh, yeah.
Your movies are whack, man.
You're directing.
Right.
Yeah, exactly.
So him calling him a hostess Twinkie motherfucker.
He's basically saying you're Hollywood.
And that's this guy's taken it as the worst insult ever.
Yeah.
And then in this moment, Wolf goes down and then Chad goes down.
Like why did Wolf have to get punked so much in this movie?

(02:03:35):
Like, I know he dressed like a douche and everything like that, but he was like the
most lovable of anybody in this movie.
And he just kept getting shit on.
I felt so bad for him.
But after Chad gets knocked out, they take they take him down and they put him in the
car and he drops him in with the script or a tsunami that hits.

(02:03:57):
What was it?
Japan?
I think it's no, it's a Japanese tsunami.
There you go.
New York.
Japanese.
A Japanese tsunami hits New York.
That's literally how the guy pitches it.
Amazing.
Bushimi tries to recover and then confesses his feelings.
And it works.
Nope.
Another dream.

(02:04:18):
But it's her dream.
Right.
It's her dream.
She's got the hots for him.
She's been dreaming about it.
But no, here's my favorite part about that.
Here's the thing that gets me after they kicked him after they kicked Palomino out and and
Keener and Bushimi are having it out on set, you know, and she's basically saying, like,

(02:04:39):
I heard what you said.
You agreed with him that I was a bad actress and he's like, I was just working.
I mean, he's sitting there trying to say like, no, I was just telling him what he needed
to hear to get him back on set.
He's trying, you know, and he and she's saying, like, I always knew that you didn't
respect and he's trying to say, like, no, no, you don't understand.
Like, I have such respect for you.
And he starts kind of like, like confessing his love to her and saying that these lines

(02:05:03):
that she's been trying to say, he wrote for her.
He's like, this I wrote this movie for you.
And the best part about it is as he's he sits down next to her and he's like, I wrote
this script for you, the music cue that starts up is the exact same music cue that's been
popping up in the scene that they were filming every time that she says, like, I've loved

(02:05:24):
you since the first since I laid eyes on you.
This music cue would come up.
And now when Bushimi sitting there saying, I wrote the script for you, that exact same
music cue comes up.
I know it's a great inclusion.
I fucking laughed my ass off.
That's one of those things.
I've never laughed at a music cue before, but I laughed at this one because it would

(02:05:46):
because not only did they do that inclusion of like having that same music cue, but they
made sure it was a music cue that you would recognize because you saw them do it in six
different takes before.
Yeah, no, it is a major part of the movie at this point.
But so but yes.
And then all of a sudden, yeah, she wakes up.
It turns out while he's dreaming about disaster on set, she's dreaming about disaster with

(02:06:11):
a leading man that leads to a romance between her and her director.
Okay, fair enough.
Yeah, to the real world set.
Finally, finally.
Yeah.
And we and we get a lot of misdirect on this one going like, is this another dream sequence?
Because some weird shit happens here, too.
Well, that was where I was confused with the eye patch and the outfit and everything like

(02:06:32):
that.
Like I was wondering what what point in the story are we?
But at this point, Corrigan is having a bathroom emergency, opens a bathroom, the movie is
dreamy, Dinklage.
We open up our very first silver screen appearance of Peter Dinklage is in a bathroom with a
blue tuxedo and he nails it.

(02:06:55):
Oh, with top hat, you know, yeah.
And and and Coolidge comes in, he's got it and he's got a pee and he just blows that
door open and there's Dinklage going, hey, knock motherfucker.
Perfect.
It was great.
And at this point, Buscemi is now calm and cool and Dinklage as Tito feels like he looks
like shit.

(02:07:15):
And Keener calls him Toto instead of Tito.
Oh, I mean, just right.
Oh, and and and Buscemi himself feels like he stepped in and when he when he goes like,
hey, thanks for coming on such short notice.
Yeah, see, that's the thing.

(02:07:36):
Like they're like really tiptoeing around the fact of like what they're saying to a
little person when the fact that like and he brings this up later, the fact that he's
even there is the insult.
Right.
Exactly.
Like wild, wild misdirect that I wasn't really ready for.

(02:07:57):
I was kind of thinking that, you know, Dinklage, like the reason that he hates doing like hates
those characters and he's anti Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs and all that was because
maybe this movie had something like that.
No, this like no, he apparently he has had this position for a very long time.

(02:08:17):
And no, yeah, no, I like one would like, like I said, zero surprises of his career.
I feel like to a certain degree, this role was written for him so he could get that out
and basically paint that as the now this is what I expect from my casting.
Well, see, here's the thing.
We talk about the fact that Buscemi's character says that he wrote this for Nicole, Kenner's

(02:08:43):
character.
The director of this movie wrote this for Kenner, which is like that is some sort of
like weird crush inception.
Hey, you know, art finds a way.
We take our inspiration where we can.
And you know what?
Here's I know.

(02:09:03):
But see, here's the thing.
Go ahead.
I was going to say if I had Catherine Keener in my life, I'd write a movie for her too.
What can I say?
Oh, I really wish that I would have gone first.
Because this is one of those like borderline me to movement type things where like actor

(02:09:25):
actresses and stuff like that have said, like, yes, like this guy wrote a role for me.
I was handing handed a role to be in a movie, something that was always my dream and stuff
like that.
But once we were on set, I found out this person had feelings for me and it was an incredibly
like awkward, hostile position and stuff like that.
So you know, I don't know how I really feel about that one.

(02:09:46):
Here's my best example.
And I remember.
Yeah, I do.
And I and my my feelings on that are basically the same.
And I got in trouble for saying this at the office once.
When I say got in trouble, I mean, the receptionist got mad at me.
Oh, and, you know, my boss thought it was funny.
But but basically, I was complaining about like, because it was a rough day at work,

(02:10:10):
you know, usual stuff.
And I and I said to my boss, I was like, man, I really wish I really wish we could go out
for beers at lunch, man, like I could use a drink.
And my boss is like, yeah, I know.
Can't do that anymore.
So yeah, fucking alcoholics ruined it for everyone.
I was.

(02:10:30):
And I was when there and the receptionist was a recovering alcoholic.
So she was like, hey, motherfucker.
Like, OK, I wasn't expecting the story to be that innocent.
That was like the setup didn't seem like it was going there.
No, but no.
Yeah, it's like, you know, yeah, it's it's a problem that something like that.

(02:10:51):
Something's a problem because.
Pretty people make it a problem.
And now now no one can.
I mean, this goes back to the special.
I made you watch, you know, nice tits, Betsy.
I was I was joking.
OK, no more jokes.
Can't joke at work anymore.
Yeah, some things are jokes.

(02:11:12):
Some things just aren't right.
Like, but yeah, I think that that's the thing.
I think writing a script for someone in and of itself.
Yes, that's perfectly innocent.
That's perfectly fine.
Some would even call it romantic.
But yeah, if those feelings are not reciprocated, you're not owed anything.
You're not owed anything.

(02:11:33):
That's you know, that's and that's just life.
Move on to the next one.
Correct.
Make it make your make your movie and move on.
Correct.
So real world wolf is a lot chiller than in the dreams and Dinklage in the background
because Wolf is like being really encouraging with the crew and stuff like that.
He's real friendly.
He's like, all right, guys, we're going to have a great day today.

(02:11:54):
Like he's just a much better person than what we have seen in anybody's dream sequence,
which just oh, yeah, which like or or wolf and Dinklage in the background, crushing a
humorous scene work with a shaking head about the crew and the smoke machine.

(02:12:15):
Oh, now, yeah, that smoke machine, man, that killed me because when they start off, they're
looking at the smoke machine and he's got like the whole crew there.
Looking at the smoke machine and it is this big, giant, clunky thing.
It looks like it's from the 20s, you know, and he's like, does anybody know how to use

(02:12:35):
somebody like know how to work this thing?
And one of the guys, Whiteman, he basically says, I think I saw something.
I think I worked with something like this back in 85.
And he's like, and Busham is like, OK, this is your baby now.
You help him out if anything he needs and then leaves.
And I'm sitting here going like, how many times have I seen a piece of equipment that
I had no fucking idea what it was?

(02:12:57):
And I was like, does anyone know what this is?
And the first person to say, I think I know what it is.
I'm like, great.
You're in charge of it now.
Like every we like nobody touched this thing except the guy who thinks it looks familiar.
You're it's you.
That's you now.
This is your job now.
Like that is that is probably the most quintessential indie set thing that I have ever seen.

(02:13:20):
Properly any movie.
Yes.
And then God, poor wolf gets dumped by Wanda on set while she's all dolled up to go out
with another man.
Right.
I know.
Right.
Damn.
That hurts.
Locking the scene of the dream sequence with Dinklage circling with an apple needing more

(02:13:44):
smoke.
And here's the thing.
Keener was very, very confused.
Like do I see him or do I not?
Because she's told that she sees the apple, but she doesn't see Dinklage.
And then like when the scene starts, she's like, it's like, no, no, no, you don't you
can't see the thing.

(02:14:04):
You're not blind.
But that is that is direct.
Like if you give the person doesn't get it, you really need to direct the person if they're
a bit spacey.
And his thing, apparently Keener is on set with a crush on Buscemi.
Like I like this scene.
She's like, oh, there was nothing.

(02:14:25):
Never mind.
How over the top she was with that.
Never mind.
Like, right.
Yeah, that was I'm not going to lie.
That was nothing but cute.
I know it got me.
Dinklage and then like so Dinklage is supposed to laugh at the end of this and Buscemi is

(02:14:47):
like, all right, just we need that laughing.
He was like, I did.
I laughed as he walked out and I had that moment.
I was like, he said that so confidently.
Did he laugh?
Did I miss that?
Like I was doing the same thing.
I'm like, wait, I didn't hear her laugh.
No, but he said.
He's like, I laughed.
Yeah, no, I almost I almost backed it up so I could watch it to see.

(02:15:09):
And he does that after every take.
Like we do see three more takes where Buscemi is just like, and remember to laugh at the
end and Buscemi and Dinklage is like, I did laugh.
And you're sitting there going like, did he?
No, no, like that is the thing.
Like he's such a good actor.
He convinced me that something that I just watched did not happen.
That was yeah, no.

(02:15:31):
We understand Dinklage now, but now you understand Dinklage from the very beginning.
Like totally.
Yes, little crazy back to one and Dinklage does not laugh.
And then he says, well, what kind of laugh?
Show me.
And like the way that he's like getting the director to like do it, he's baiting him.
You can sit there and go like, tell me what kind of what kind of laugh do you think a

(02:15:55):
dwarf makes?
Exactly.
It was.
Oh, yes.
Wolf keeps going on about having it be handheld and that smoke machine just keeps going nuts.
Wolf needs a private talk and he starts crying with the director and Buscemi just tells him,

(02:16:15):
look, man, you got a great eye, but I hope it's not the one under that eye patch.
Yeah, but what I what I what I loved was that our music cue popped in again in that conversation
when he's when you're right, it when Wolf is sitting there going like I'm just having
a really hard time, man.
And she just broke up with me and things, you know, and he's like really like pouring

(02:16:36):
his heart out to this director and the fucking music cue starts and it starts in again.
And Buscemi's just like, no, no, no, no, man.
No, you are.
You are good at this.
You know, I wouldn't do this.
I like how encouraging he was.
Like I felt like, yeah, I see.
The thing is, I felt like Buscemi's character was a pretty OK director.
He had patience and everything like that.

(02:16:58):
He tried to listen and be there for people like I get it.
But I also kind of understand, like when I see a director lose their shit, like.
When I was younger, I judged now after all my time on set, I'm just glad I was never
the director.
No, like I get it.

(02:17:18):
The crew and the smoke machine with Dinklage in the background and nobody can see anything
because the smoke machine has gone wild and then blows up.
Right.
Good God.
And then clear the set and who comes out of the door?
It's his mom and that right.
So the old lady, the old lady, you know, is right.

(02:17:41):
Because the will go ahead.
All right.
Yeah, no.
So we the old lady who plays the mom in the movie in the first dream sequence, we turn
out that whole thing we saw that entire movie that was being filmed in that first section
didn't exist.
We're doing something entirely different, in fact, and he's even talking about this
weird dream I had last night.
And you were in it along with some some other lady.

(02:18:02):
I don't know.
So someone older.
Yeah, that's the thing.
Like we didn't even get to know that that was his mom.
That was awesome.
Right.
Yeah.
And then all of a sudden, yeah.
And she walks in on set.
It's the same lady from before.
And we should look at her and goes, Mom, what are you doing here?
Like it's yeah, no brilliant little just turn around on the whole thing.
And she escaped her home because she's a bit kooky.

(02:18:25):
And she has that I'm sorry, Nick, if I if I knew there was going to be a wedding, I
would have worn my fucking hat.
That that that's that's the line.
That's how you use an F word, man.
That's right.
Yeah.
Because it's like because it's like she could like that line could have been if I'd known
there'd be a wedding, I would have worn my hat.

(02:18:47):
But no, she put the bomb on it.
She put the bomb with the heaviest of stank.
Yeah, that made the line so much more.
And then oh my God, is the little fella going to do gymnast gymnastics?
That look from Dinklage.
See here's the thing.

(02:19:08):
If Dinklage was not such a tremendous actor, I would think that a lot of these were improv'd
just to get his reaction.
However, I know how good of an actor Peter Dinklage is.
So right.
Yeah.
Damn.
Yep.
No, just incredible.
Well, so here's the here's the thing.

(02:19:28):
And this is kind of where I've got to wonder because I mean, like you said before, how
what's his name based his entire performance on one guy?
Oh, yeah.
LeBros.
LeBros.
Yeah.
Palomino.
Palomino based.
And if you look at Dinklage's IMDB, I do say this is his big screen, you know, first appearance

(02:19:50):
before this.
He was in a short film on short film.
He's in the corner of the IMDB.
He's credited as a circus performer.
What?
Okay.
Circus performer uncredited.
Yeah.
So, okay.
Yeah, both.
Damn it.
Yeah.
So, yeah.
So that's the guy that like I'm like I'm saying is like, I'm wondering if that was one of

(02:20:13):
those things that he was fed because his whole role is him taking a powder on on how on the
casting of dwarves in Hollywood.
So I'm wondering if he's sitting there going like, all right, first off, you're going to
thank me for coming in for short notice.
Second off, you're going to give me a dog's name.
Third, the lady is going to ask me to do the kind of you asked me to do circus tricks like

(02:20:34):
like he told him.
Remember, it was all gold.
So the smoke machine is dead and they're moving on.
Heiner walks off set because she feels fake and thinks that she should just do shower
steam shower scenes forever.
You know, a crisis, whatever.

(02:20:55):
Back to one.
Mom ruins the take and there was still no laugh from Dinklage.
Dinklage wants to know why he has to laugh and mom lets that like lifts the tear patch
so Wolf can have that tear fall out from under the patch too.
That same weird little maternal moment that she gave her in her dream.

(02:21:19):
He's now given to Wolf in real life.
Well, you do realize that everything that happened in those dreams did kind of happen
in real life.
Like they were all kind of half assed premonitions that paid off in weird ways.
Yeah, like this movie was kind of wildly complete.
I'm still a little bit amazed.
Dinklage has a dwarf dream sequence rage speech and quits where he goes and he's like, it's

(02:21:46):
a dream.
You have to have a dwarf.
You got to do it.
And then he's like, have you ever had a dream with a dwarf in it?
I don't even have dreams with dwarfs in it.
And I am a dwarf.
Right.
And he walks off set and that look on Buscemi's face where he's like, and you're just seeing
like I've never had a dream with a dwarf in it.
Right.

(02:22:06):
Yeah.
He's sitting there going like, oh shit, I'm, I am the problem.
I'm part of the problem.
I'm one of them.
Yeah.
Right.
And gives up.
But then mom saves the day.
The camera goes handheld just like Wolf always Wolf wanted and which was in the dream sequence.
Uh, Nick's mom is a little good.

(02:22:30):
Yeah.
Because, because Buscemi gives up and basically tells him to start breaking down.
So Wolf's already taken the camera off the dolly.
And then when mom walks in and just goes, give me the apple, grabs it and starts doing
the scene, which I'm just like, now, now quick.
He doesn't have time to put to remount the camera.
He has to do it handheld now.
He got no choice, which is what Wolf has wanted this whole time anyway.

(02:22:51):
Yep.
Nick's mom is in the scene like in the dream and everything worked and mom, you cook moving
on and going for a second take as is.
And what might be my favorite part of the movie is the room tone scene.
Yes.
Yep.
Sitting there on an independent set where everybody has to shut up and everybody has

(02:23:14):
to try really, really hard to be quiet for about a minute of room tone.
And everybody's just looking at each other, if you're flirting with somebody on set, that's
the time you kind of make eyes, make plans.
If you have inside jokes about the people who are flirting on set, then you look at
that person and go like all that stuff.
Like so many things happen during that one minute of room tone.

(02:23:38):
I have thought about that scene for years.
The fact that I have never had the opportunity because in the modern age, we don't really
need to call it for the room tone much anymore.
So I have the fact that I have never been on a set where I've had to say, all right,
everybody, you're going to do a minute of room tone.

(02:24:01):
It has felt like a very like best thing is like that felt like the cap on because like
you said, it's a hell of a scene to end on of every like we're actually we actually had
a good day with everything that went wrong, but then got fixed.
And now we're just going to sit here in silence for one minute to think about what we've done
today and what it means to us.

(02:24:24):
And yeah, that's like that's that carried with me for a long, long time.
And then I thought about it repeatedly with every set that I was on where we did not do
room tone.
I just kind of went like, oh, that's a bummer.
It is kind of weird because while we never did room tone on any of those sets, I was
doing that on every other set that I was at.

(02:24:45):
I mean, except for like Grimm and librarians and stuff like that, like never there.
Maybe I should have been doing room tone like the horror movies, like cemetery people when
I went out to go do that one.
Like we got Horace room tone.
OK, no, we like, oh, man, like I don't know.
I never knew why you guys didn't do it.

(02:25:05):
I figured it was just a stylistic choice not to have that, not to have that on the base.
But during that moment of room tone, it's nothing but a bunch of fantasies.
There's a new category, best film ever made by a human being.
Another fantasy, Heener failing and becoming a diner cook.

(02:25:31):
Another fantasy.
Like these all these fantasies are happening during the same 30 seconds of room tone.
Right.
Please forgive me, Wolf.
I love you.
And then the the woman that he's fantasizing about is fantasizing about like hooking up
with Chad Palomino and like, oh, I love that you're not afraid of my power.

(02:25:53):
Oh, God, Wanda, I love your power.
Like there that was like what the fuck was that?
That was amazing.
And then the boom mic operator, his fantasy is getting a burger.
Yep.
That was amazing.

(02:26:13):
And then the mom pleasures, man.
Some people find happiness easy.
Yes, sir.
And then the mom fantasizing about walking through walls.
Good God.
We didn't even mention that.
But she's like, I can walk walls, Nikki.
Like that's right.
We have special talents.
When he asks her how she got out of the nursing home, she's like, oh, that's the thing I can

(02:26:34):
do now.
I can just walk through walls.
And he's like, fucks sake.
And then like where he is like talking earlier when he was trying to like just kind of going
off, like I should just give up and be a Spanish teacher at a woman's college.
Turns out that's something his film teacher said to him while he was in film school.
And it's part of his speech.

(02:26:54):
So this movie has a lot of setups.
It has a lot of payoffs.
It is incredible.
Doc, why did you bring it to the show?
I brought it to the show for multiple, multiple reasons.
Like I said, that room tone scene has stuck with me for years, which means the movie has
stuck with me for years.
I saw it at a time when I was, you know, yeah, I was still a teenager when I first saw it

(02:27:21):
and in dreaming of becoming the next Kevin Smith.
And I really, you know, this was, you know, and I was already a Buscemi fan, you know,
on top of that.
This movie was made for me.
And yeah.
And then on top of that with the, you know, fantastic mountain, mountain rise that, that

(02:27:44):
Dinklage has gone on as, you know, as the little person actor who doesn't do little
person roles except for the one greatest little person role ever written in history.
Correct.
And this is, this is kind of, you know, you can see it right from the beginning that he,
he basically, you know, planted his flag on that the first time he appeared on screen,

(02:28:06):
you know, and so it's kind of a, you know, one of those interesting little factoids that
I think more people should be aware of.
But then, yeah, yeah, it's, it's, it's a movie that has stuck with me for a long, long,
long time because of everything about it, that it is both satirizing indie film while

(02:28:27):
at the same time, definitely a love letter to it, you know, which kind of has to be,
you can't love letter filmmaking without satirizing it because it is fucking ridiculous.
Fair enough.
I think I'm going to put this like, I don't know, I want to go like 70, 75, 80% of the
way to the must see list, you know, you know, that's kind of where I'm at too, because

(02:28:50):
yeah, it's a tough one to call it, you know, other than the Dinklage effect, it's hard
to say that it's had a lasting, you know, must see for filmmakers though.
Oh, absolutely.
Yes.
If you, if you are a wannabe filmmaker or wannabe or even just a film nerd, 100% this

(02:29:10):
should be, this should be on your must see list for sure.
But yeah, for just general fans, I'd give it a 50 50 on that one.
You know, I'd say its biggest, biggest draw is to see the beginning of the legacy that
is Peter Dinklage.
That is true.
Dinklage.
I'm just all the way on board with you on that one.

(02:29:32):
Like it just is what it is.
All right guys, thanks for joining us on YouTube.
If you want to join with the podcast, we are available on Apple Music, Spotify.
I mean pretty much wherever you can find podcasts, you can find us and we'll be back live next
week 7pm Mountain Time.
From now until then, stay safe and stay sane.

(02:29:54):
Have a good night everyone.

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