H.Y.S.T? | S2E2 | Owning Mahowny & Finder's Fee - H.Y.S.T?

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Welcome to Heist. I'm Bradly Hackworth joined by Jonathan Ems, otherwise known

(00:05):
as Doc. Hello fellow humans. And this week we're going to be covering owning Mahowny
and Finer- Finder's- Fee. Two incredibly just... I think that the massive praise
that I gotta throw is kind of just because mostly to the acting. Oh yeah, no

(00:26):
both of these were these were not like a lot of action not a lot of special
effects these were these were two character pieces played by some of the
best character actors that that they have out that we have out there so.
You ain't getting any arguments from me on this one. Yeah and I gotta ask I was

(00:47):
wondering because I remember you know when we were when we were choosing our
movies for this week last week and I and I threw out owning Mahoney at you did
you choose finders fee based on that or did you already have that set up because
I've had a finders fee set up since season one okay cuz I'm wondering how
much of it I was wondering how much of a coincidence it was that we got two

(01:11):
gambling movies you know in one in one show here I was curious about that too
we did not we walked into that completely on accident I knew that
finders fee was about a poker game I knew nothing about owning Mahoney so no
that was completely by accident I did tell you it was about a gambling addict
and then you said okay well my movie for you was finders fee and so I was

(01:33):
wondering if you if you had changed up on that by that when I when I said oh
no honey did you go okay no I I think I remember you saying that it was about
gambling but I also remember you saying it was about a banker I'm about a dude
yeah a bunch of money so no that was it does they I had forgotten how much money
he stole that was a thing watching this movie for a second time and they start

(01:55):
saying the numbers of what's going missing I'm like holy shit all over again
and the fact that this was a true story mm-hmm yeah would you kind of a kind of
a cool thing that bounces on the fact that this is a true story the budget for
this movie was almost identical to the amount of money that he stole oh that's

(02:17):
perfect that's perfect not a lot of fun facts kind of line up like that I
thought that was just kind of cheeky yeah yep someone someone had a good laugh
about that oh probably Mahoney probably Mahoney himself well that was the thing
so I can't remember if the real guy's name was Brian Mulraney or if that was

(02:39):
the Canadian Prime Minister's name at the time but that's why they changed the
name of the character was because the care the name of the character for the
movie because in real life they didn't want to kind of insinuate that this was
his story oh so he has he had the same name as a prominent politician and very
close yeah okay I see all right and they changed his name to Dan Mahoney which is

(03:06):
an anagram for and how many kind of another again little cheeky but I
enjoyed it yep so owning Mahoney based on the book no limit by Gary Ross
directed by Richard quiet Nioski written by Gary Ross and Maurice Chauvet which I

(03:28):
thought it was really funny when you were like mentioning the Glen Gary Glen
Ross I was yeah I should have brought this up then starring Philip Seymour
Hoffman many driver John Hurt and Maury Chaykin with Ian Tracy Sonia Smits and
Casey Collins which I gotta say man every time John Hurt shows up in anything it

(03:50):
automatically becomes one of my favorite things and my god he plays the literal
devil in this movie they might as well have put him in a red suit and had
flames dancing around him in every scene because he was the perfect just oh he
sold it like yeah like I am I am here to ruin you and I'm enjoying it kind of guy

(04:13):
you know and he was so good oh he was so delightfully deliciously evil and he
played it perfectly but that's why you get John Hurt exactly yes yes so the
opening shot of the waterfall and a therapy session definitely set this up
this movie up to be or to have that kind of ending mm-hmm which is where I

(04:39):
completely thought this was going all the way up to the end oh I based on real
events that happened in Toronto in the early 80s and we get right in to Mahoney
on his way to work with shots of money counters and the security footage which
there like to me because I didn't know what this movie was about I thought that

(05:00):
was kind of like the beginning hints showing us that we're gonna have kind of
a heist movie right yeah and and to a degree it was that was kind of what they
yeah but what I loved about it is how like right out of the gate we're seeing
how surprisingly tight with money Mahoney is like oh yeah no his he's

(05:21):
he's driving around yeah he's driving around in a car that is so old and beat
up it literally should not be on the road it is billowing smoke behind him
as he drives and then when he gets to work the security guard there is like
hey congratulations on your promotion you know so it's like the dude can afford a
new car he's just not getting one and all of his money goes somewhere that's

(05:44):
the thing yeah it's in and he's getting conversations with people about you know
they're like why don't you get a new suit he's like no this one's fine and
you know he's got a conversation with his girlfriend where she's like let's go
out to dinner let's go to this place and he's like whoa whoa that's like you know
gonna be like thirty dollars a plate there not like the guy is super super
tight with money which just kind of makes the audacity of how much he

(06:08):
gambles that much more like Jesus Christ man like yeah this guy's speaking of
many driver my god that opening bit of flirting was just painful
oh I couldn't tell that they were a couple they were yet they were so
awkward if not for the fact that she's literally like talking to him about like
moving in with him and they're going to dinner that you're all of a sudden like

(06:31):
oh they're they're like together together like it seemed very like a like
business like conversation up and to that point yeah but yeah many many
driver again like she's great and it's like you barely if you don't know it's
her you kind of barely recognize her because they got her in that big blonde
wig she's talking with a perfect Canadian accent oh amazing like her

(06:51):
opening dialogue like oh my god that was so Canadian yeah yeah no she's awesome
in this too but yeah that's that's kind of what this whole thing is about is
gonna be how awesome all of these actors were in this so yeah from then just out
of the way oh my god absolutely meeting with the bank heads and he knows exactly
how to play him shows him how much profit from this woman's account because

(07:13):
they were like really hesitant about the credit line slides over a piece of paper
going this is how much we're banking off of her already things like okay no no
no give her as much as she wants and then and which again brings us another
thing like one of the reasons why Mahoney is in the position he's in to do
the the crazy shit he does later is the fact that the guy has been such a top

(07:36):
quality straight as an arrow perfect bank employee all the way up until this
day this one day where he feels a little bit of pressure acts in a single moment
moment of weakness and then it just cascades out of control so fast after
that oh it definitely does and there was a point later in the movie where they're

(08:00):
kind of talking about how lucky he was and all this and I'm gonna get to that
but I want to I want to like highlight it early so I can I really want to show
this much attention to it all of his luck was outside of the casino exactly
yeah he had tremendous amount of luck none of it was in the casino except for
a few times he had a few runs yeah he had a couple of good days and but yeah

(08:25):
and apparently this whole thing takes place over I think they said it was a
two-year span like everything took 80 to 82 yeah yeah so like a lot I mean wow
wow I mean just this movie weird like I don't think I've ever loved bookies
before I liked these bookies dude these guys and I'm and I wondered about this

(08:48):
too cuz like like like again this takes place in bookies are nice what yeah
like these guys they come in they're at his place a bit they're doing the the
bookie gangster thing they're showing up at his office like you're in for us ten
large you know and doing the whole thing but then they'll but then he's like so
what what do you want from me he's like well you go like we're gonna have to get
harsh we're gonna have to get real work you know this is gonna have to get

(09:10):
serious so we're gonna need to talk payment plan not broken bones not
showing up not taking the cut no no yes we need a payment plan yeah you're gonna
until you until you're square with us you're not allowed to gamble anymore
until you were square after your payment plan it's like oh my god like the
Canadian gangsters are the nicest gangsters in the world apparently I

(09:34):
love I don't know how accurate that was but I was having fun with it oh yeah but
I gotta say man Hoffman's performance begins immediately in this movie like
the very very frame that he like that very second that he shows up on screen
that is not Phillips humor Hoffman he is all the way in this character and it

(09:56):
never breaks I was crazy I mean I was always crazy impressed with Phillips
humor Hoffman it's nice to be reminded why right exactly yeah like there is
that then there's that moment that we're talking about here where the cascade
begins he approves his own loan and he goes to bet again he create yeah he

(10:17):
creates yet to pay off his bookies some yeah Oscar Naur yeah he basically
creates a fake person to give a loan to and in order to pay off these bookies so
that he so that he can go gambling him because they're threatening to cut him
off from the racetrack if he doesn't square up and so he he fakes a loan to

(10:38):
himself from his bank in order to pay them off so he can go gamble again which
gives himself a $15,000 loan gets on a bus and goes to Atlantic City and he got
on a plane I thought he got on a plane but then it showed a bus well I think he
took a bus from the airport to the casino at Atlantic City of the likes okay

(11:01):
okay so that's that was just a little bit of confusion because the reason why
I thought he took the bus and again I had a little bit of a little bit of a
misdirect here because the camera panned with the bus and then it panned back
following an armored money truck oh so like I didn't know I still don't know
why it did that it felt like it felt like it was gearing up for a heist where

(11:27):
is Atlantic City it's not in Nevada no no no no no no it's uh that's closer
it was like not too far from New York Jersey area like okay well then maybe he
did take the bus the first time then okay okay but still I don't know why they
did that tracking shot going back with the armored car I thought that was that

(11:48):
like a money truck that's good question yeah like that was a that was a mister
that was a misdirect that I'm fairly certain was intentional by the director
but I don't know why to keep to keep dropping hints like this is gonna be a
heist movie and like you said it kind of was yeah it kind of was Hoffman gets the

(12:09):
15k and chips in Atlantic City goes all night with the casino owner laughing
over security and this is what we're talking about John Hurt played the
security owner or the casino owner and man sitting there talking about this guy
is a purist he doesn't care about drugs alcohol women all he cares about is the

(12:30):
next hand and then you have John Hurt giving that right yeah that evil laugh I
love it very very evil yes yeah and oh man it was too good he gave a tremendous
performance oh a very early look at the dark side of gambling that one lady
asking for money oh right yeah yeah we're just like we had a really good run

(12:56):
back there we were doing really good lend me $200 okay $100 and just right
you like it it was nice to have such a tiny little moment to really highlight
the dark side of gambling mm-hmm yep yeah you're like and the interesting
thing too is also kind of like that warning sign like this is Mahoney's

(13:18):
future he's looking at his own future and he's not seeing it you know and that
that's kind of like one of the another like there were so many warning signs on
this guy that he just turned away from you know but also we're kind of skipping
over like when he arrives at this casino at this Atlantic City casino how there's
this whole moment where a high roller is being escorted in he gets stopped right

(13:42):
you know would you you know normally like you kind of see stuff like this
anyway when they show when they present a casino they'll do that whole kind of
like here's the showgirls here's the tables here's a high roller being
escorted in kind of thing but it was kind of it was more it seemed kind of
like blended in with that here and was also a way for them to introduce John
Hurt because John Hurt comes in and greets that high roller in person it's

(14:04):
an honor and a privilege to have you here sir and you very much see how
slimy he is the second opens his mouth right yeah right off the bat but it but
juxtaposes because you know later on in the movie we see that exact same set of
circumstances happening to Mahoney and and it you know we'll get it we'll get

(14:27):
into that later because that's kind of like what starts his downfall is when he
reaches that high point when he becomes the high roller I interestingly enough
that is that all happened one night his high roller status and everything like
that because he kept getting money but he also kept losing money a lot he won
one time in Vegas and he won almost one one time in AC yep but John Hurt was

(14:51):
way correct when his character said what he did but this this first time that
he's in the at the casino he takes in $15,000 he loses $14,500 but then he
tells his girlfriend played by a mini driver I walked away with $500 and she's
like that's awesome it's like right yeah and that is that way that is classic if

(15:14):
you if you have a if you have a gambling addict in your life that is classic
gambling addict behavior they will even they man if they manage to get out of
there with a penny left to their name they'll say hey I was up a penny they
won't they won't mention that they walked in there with $10,000 and they
lost 9999 that scene where they're watching the basketball game and he has

(15:39):
to and he has to make sure that he wins by two points and they did win but how
much pressure was on Philip Seymour Hoffman and how much he was not able to
let anybody in the room see he couldn't say anything like just all of that
pressure underneath the surface everything that could not be said yeah

(16:01):
amazing I mean I and the same thing from mini driver too where she's you know she
can see there's something wrong and trying not to make a big deal out of it
in front of their friends at that little dinner party that they're having yeah
which as this movie was going on I had a lot of questions about many drivers

(16:22):
character and as the movie ended I had even more questions oh me too right like
Wow why and again it's kind of hard to cast a lot of judgment I mean it's one
thing if we're talking like you know a character in a piece of fiction like
we're not getting their motivation but this is a real person no this is a real

(16:42):
woman yeah dude who didn't really seem to have much interest in her and let me
didn't really didn't show it yeah and we are we are seeing almost ten million
dollars going to prison and he got married to her on a break that he was
granted from Canadian prison after everything that he put her through I

(17:05):
mean she stuck with him to the bitter end love yeah and I kind of I wish we
could have seen some of that to maybe get it maybe to see some of that good
life those are the questions I had because yeah because most of this movie
I'm sitting here going like why are you putting up with this shit but it because
we only see Mahoney's bad side we only we only see them while they're already

(17:30):
moving in so they've been together for who knows how long and then we're
watching him make the mistakes that should have tanked their relationship by
if you know in adjust oh man over and over so so whatever whatever reason she
had for being with him in the first place we never saw and so we just kind
of see her as a victim this whole time but apparently she doesn't see herself

(17:52):
that way because she stayed with the guy literally through thick and thin and we
don't get to see why that is so I would I would I am interested into in finding
out how they met when the times were good all of these things because we
never because like you're saying we never got to see any of that and it made
their relationship very confusing yeah but their relationship wasn't really the

(18:17):
focus of the film however it should have been a bigger part because it was a
focus right but what I can I can credit them for is because even with all that
missing mm-hmm with the scenes that they do have together you still do get that
sense that Mahoney you're fucking this up like brother you clearly have a good

(18:41):
thing going here like she is kind she is supportive she has given you ten
thousand second chances this is a fucking good deal you got here with this
lady and if she looked anything like many driver right yeah exactly so it's
like dude you cannot do better than this you need to get you'd like you you start
feeling that whole like dude don't do it don't do I had go to the head I had to

(19:05):
go to the casino again yeah I had that a lot through this film I was like come on
man so like something something happened here but I knew when we started and it
was a true story I knew that it wasn't going to end really happy because if it
ended happy why would we be watching a true story exactly yeah so there is
always a story true stories don't have with happy endings don't be it made into

(19:27):
movies no no that's a that's kind of that's almost always a guarantee like no
matter how much hope you're getting during the story you know it's like
they're telling this story for a reason right yeah yeah that's that's always kind
of the downside of watching true stories you always kind of know this was where
the movie really got real for me and I started to understand why we were

(19:48):
following this character he goes to get a $2,000 loan for a client stacks an
additional thousand hundred thousand dollars on top of it and that's where it
really starts coming in on the high fraud crimes yep nice now not only is
he borrowing off of a fake loan that he created for himself now he's borrowing

(20:11):
extra off an existing clients loan and little more risky oh yeah but that like
what we're saying all of his luck happened in the bank a lot it was missing
from the casino he got it but again was was that really luck though because most
of it is on goodwill remember this guy was a model employee up until this day

(20:33):
so was it luck or was it just by the very nature the fact that no one would
have suspect them in a million years because he's that fact that he made
enough money to pay off the loan before the audit right yeah there there was a
fair amount of luck involved there no that's true that is a very good point
but you are right like his position in the bank and the fact that he was

(20:54):
trusted is what made this capable I definitely do agree with that then he
takes Doug to the casino and Doug has no clue what's going on but he gets work
quick and man again like you see a little glimpse of the dark nature of
gambling addicts and I gotta say it was like Doug's character like his little

(21:18):
situation did kind of make me laugh because he was transferred rooms no idea
gets in there and he's just he rolled in this high rolling room watching skin
flicks and he's like hey all right not a bad trip didn't have to carry my own
luggage to the room like they brought like four bellhops to do it for me like
Jesus this is great but I gotta say man what like watching Hoffman sit at that

(21:42):
table and slowly lose everything and like seeing how that weighed on him and
by the end of the night Doug wanted to ask him like hey man do you want to talk
about it there were a lot of characters in this movie in this story that gave
him an out and he never took it a single time yep but that is the whole that is a
big thing about addicts they don't want it to be better they want to be able to

(22:06):
do the thing that they're addicted to and they want to justify it somehow and
that never really goes your way no yeah well and they do kind of give it at the
end when we like you said we started with a therapy session the movie also
ended with a therapy session and I feel that that final scene that little
dialogue probably was very telling in a lot of it and I imagine that's probably

(22:27):
the part where most people even who aren't addicts probably felt like they
related to him the most and we'll get into that but I just want to kind of
want to bring that up but yeah you're right like he really like the warning
signs were there for him and he ignored them the warning signs were there for
everyone around him and they tried to reach out including including his own

(22:47):
fucking bookie his own bookie kept trying to cut him off and a sweet old
Canadian bookie I like that I did I can't I can't not love that character I
don't know I did have a lot of questions about that character but the questions
that I had it seemed like the film was again steering me in a direction and did

(23:11):
not pay it off I'll bet I'll get to it but I'll get to that oh this is the
night that he is like he's losing everything and then he goes out to take
a break and he finds out that people have been like preparing spare ribs all
night like his order to keep them fresh all night I thought that was great
lapses ass off and because he understands what was going on so yeah

(23:33):
when he when they shit when he shows up at the table with this you know with
his big you know he gets $15,000 worth of chips and you know John Hurt the the
boss man finds out he's like oh we got a let's grab this guy and he's like
anything you want sir you can I can't do the John Hurt voice but man honestly I
mean he's British and on his American accent he does it perfect but it is a

(23:57):
very unique American accent it's true yes but I didn't you know says anything
you want and he goes actually I could just go some ribs in a coke and they're
like okay ribs in a coke we know sauce no sauce ribs with no sauce and a coke
and when they have it ready for him the other the other guy the the guest

(24:19):
services manager stops the waitress and goes like no he's still playing we don't
interrupt we don't want to interrupt his playing flow so don't serve it give it a
couple minutes and if they get cold just toss them have them make new ones I want
on they go they literally say I want I want a fresh ribs and coke ready for him
at any given time but don't interrupt him until he stops playing and so they

(24:43):
have literally and so yeah at the end of this night and when Hoffman loses all
the money and goes in a tirade he runs into a dude in the hall sitting there
eating ribs because he's just like yeah he's rich it yeah they just got tons of
the shit laying around you want some you know and then we see the owner of the
casino John Hurt looking at the security footage and seeing that Hoffman is

(25:05):
bonding with this guy Bernie and then he promotes Bernie and I just felt mad for
Bernie the rest of this movie man right yeah whoa he made that was really makes
makes Hoffman he makes him Hoffman's body man he tells him like whenever
whenever Mahoney is in the casino you stick to him like glue that's it he
likes you so you just stand by his side the whole time and that's what this poor

(25:26):
sob does yeah like it kind of sucks I felt bad for him but I mean that that
that was real you can't really deny that but then Hoffman is hiding like crazy
with this steals another $200,000 and then bets the actual spread across all
the horses at the track right like this guy is paying attention he's not even

(25:51):
paying attention to what he's betting on anymore he's literally just making
random bets just to well there's that part where he drops $40,000 off and the
guys like you don't even know who's racing yet and he's like I don't care
just cover the spread right yeah he's really yeah dude this guy like you talk
about the roughest of gambling addicts this guy kind of he's he's climbing up

(26:13):
there from yeah everything I've seen but then again I mean I don't really know
too much about gambling addicts I know I've lost my ass on the table a couple
times but I didn't go running back so yeah I think I'm one of like I my my
father is a recovering gambling addict and I think I'm lucky that I just I
never had enough of a winning streak to get addicted to it so I that winning

(26:37):
streak it really like really plays it in like now basically one time a year on
vacation go to a casino and I kind of win pretty much every time but that is
specifically why I do like I when people like hey let's go to the casino like nah
every once in a while I will cave every once in a while I quit while I was ahead

(27:01):
five years ago well I mean but this is how lucky I can get when I go to the
casino yeah I put in like 20 bucks on a slot machine lost it all and then I
found 89 cents like a little ticket that you take to like the cage of the ATM or
whatever it is and you cash out I found one that had 89 cents on it and I got it

(27:21):
all the way up to fourteen hundred dollars oh that wow okay that's a
streak yeah yeah I got it up to fourteen hundred it got down to like twelve or
eleven I think it was eleven and then I cashed out and I ran out of there so
fast I was like no more losing no more losing we're good I've got a friend and

(27:42):
and he and this is the guy this is the guy who like I imagine some like
gamblers imagine being I know this guy he's one of those like friend of a
friend types and and hang out in the same circles but whenever like whenever
this group of friends was hanging out he would always like bow out every once
when he'd be like I'll be right back and he'd walk over to the to the bars to the

(28:04):
the section of the bar that's cordoned off where they got all the slot machines
at you know because in Oregon gambling is not legal but there's a surprising
amount of gambling machines that are run by the lottery state well I'm from
there's a blackjack table in every bar okay so yeah we've got basically not

(28:26):
roulette what's the arm pull one slot machine slot machines thank you we've
got electronic slot machines everywhere that's okay yeah yeah yeah that makes
sense Montana's like that a lot too like every bar like they call like every bar
they classify as a casino because in Montana if you say casino you get to
have slot machines and stuff like that but it can't just be a bar it has to be

(28:48):
a casino but I'm literally talking like 10 foot by 30 foot spaces right yeah
every bar is considered a casino I wonder if that's still true that's
actually something I learned when I was younger and I'm spitting it out there
like it's fact but I may very well have just been told something while I was
driving down the road and just believed it I should probably check into that

(29:09):
yeah we are we are not gambling lawyers on this one that's for sure but don't
even yes this guy anymore man this guy this guy Neil what he would do is
whenever we were hanging out he would you know get up from the table and be
like I'll be right back and he'd go over to the machines and he'd come back like
30 minutes later and he'd have his winning ticket of like what he was up
by and it would be like five hundred dollars six hundred dollars twelve

(29:33):
hundred dollars sometimes and he would do that until he had enough money for a
plane ticket to Vegas spend a weekend in Vegas and then after like a year of
doing that he had enough money to open up his own wine shop
and now he sells wine that probably is not gonna happen for you no no I don't

(29:55):
know what chances I don't know what his system was I don't know who in his
family fucked a leprechaun in the past but that but clearly somebody yeah but
that was yeah that was one of those things like ever all the rest of us was
sitting there and go like how the hell are you doing that and he just like I
don't know just happens hey man you got you got a talent you roll with it

(30:16):
doesn't have to be a skill yeah and we owe the meeting with the manager and
honestly like the way he does a really good job of covering his tracks if that
is how the real Mahoney did it kind of see where he where he won yeah and and
it had to do with the fact of yeah the guy had been at it for a long time he
knew how this banking system worked he knew what you know he knew how to work

(30:40):
his bosses as we saw that at the beginning of the movie like for the for
the sake of that client he knew how to work his bosses and he has a stellar
reputation up to this point so even if something he says maybe is a little bit
like take my word for it they were taking his word for it because they had
no reason not to yeah no it was it was just that simple like it like the

(31:02):
simplicity behind it is kind of what made it as brilliant as it was yeah but
this is our first mention of Oscar NAR the Phantom and that is the Phantom
account that Mahoney created so he was able to take loans and his assistant
kind of gives us a little bit of insight into it because I had no idea that he

(31:23):
opened that account until this exact scene and now okay and that was how he
got that earlier like I I flashed back and I realized because I thought he was
just stealing from Oscar NAR but I didn't realize that he was Oscar NAR
right okay okay I see we're saying yeah then he takes all of that and he goes
back to AC and he's got Bernie plus some accommodations oh right yeah yeah the

(31:49):
the lady that is delivered to his door and and that and well and that's where
we get the John Hurt scene because that's where it came in I said it too
early yeah right yeah they because that's when they come up to the you know
they the the guest services manager comes to him and he's like yeah he kicked
her out said the only lady he was interested in is Lady Luck and John Hurt

(32:12):
goes I don't understand this guy no booze no drugs no sex he's a thorough
bread he's a thoroughbred he only thinks about the next hand of cards I love this
guy yep which John Hurt great villain every time yeah if you're struggling
with remembering who John Hurt is he you most people probably know him as like

(32:37):
what was he the Emperor or president of V for Vendetta oh he was the well he was
the president yeah he was the guy just remember what the title was but he is
like the main dude in V for Vendetta and yeah that's probably his best bad guy
role probably yeah yeah I would say so he was he was right in there yeah he's

(32:58):
also the war doctor for the Doctor Who fans that's a you thing yep okay yep
it's not a me thing it's a Doctor Who fans thing there are more than just me
the two of us that is a you thing I watched the the Eccleston Doctor Who and
that is literally it okay well cotton day episodes of the David

(33:21):
Tennant maybe maybe that is a lot of TV man well yeah yeah that's what was that
like a thousand episodes close to it but they but wait good God Wilson one best
thing is like that was kind of the point of the Eccleston one was in is it a new
jump in point so you don't have to go all the way back to the the 50s and 60s

(33:42):
you can start with actual Eccleston just move on from there in which still
might be like a good idea to go to like the top 10 episodes before the reboot
just so I can kind of get a feel for like the historical nature of the show
because I mean it is a historical show at this point that is true that is true
but also at the same time like a doctor right like any especially science fiction

(34:07):
show that's been going on for this long it's the same thing as like with Star
Trek or Star Wars there's going to be continuity issues so maybe you don't
have to go that far back because you only just confuse yourself if you do
that that's true well okay so yeah there is there is that but it is also really
fun like so like for our episodes for the podcast when you go to like Spotify

(34:30):
or Apple music most our most downloaded episodes are our earliest ones and our
most recent ones because people are going in to check out like how we started
the audio quality everything like that then they're going to like kind of check
out how far we've come which not very far but this would be kind of the same

(34:52):
thing to see the first Dalek okay like things like things like that just to see
how far it has come that's I really enjoy seeing that aspect of filmmaking
television making things like that right and you know what I certainly wouldn't
stop you for sure but yeah you don't have to consider it that heavy of a deal

(35:13):
you know so all right then he talked like we get I think I feel like this was
kind of our first scene with mini driver like our first real scene with mini
driver she was very much in the background of the basketball game and
some of the other stuff but when he's sitting there actually talking to her
about getting away and going and doing something that was where we really

(35:37):
started like seeing how much she loved Hoffman's character right yeah she's
like super excited at the idea of going somewhere and well he thinks they're
going out of town to get married that's right yeah because he says hey let's go
to Vegas and then yeah that especially in the 80s when someone says hey let's

(35:58):
take a trip to Vegas that's totally a let's get married thing back then yeah
well I was three when the 80s ended so I'm gonna take your word on it but then
again you were only 13 so I mean I mean I watched a lot of TV at that age so I
knew you know okay okay okay all of the references let's go to Vegas let's do

(36:18):
all this okay yeah I could give you that the bookies are especially recorded by
the cops and like this is kind of weird like they wind up getting Hoffman while
tracking bookies right yeah yeah these are like these are like your your low
level like you know not quite organized crime guys but at least trying to break

(36:43):
up some some gambling ring guys and they've got a tap on the phone of Mahoney's
bookie and while they're listening to him and Mahoney talk they're like what
is up with this Mahoney guy should we check him out he's he's sketchy as fuck
he's sketchier than the book you were listening to the way he talks the way
he sounds like he really does like I can't I can't really fault them for that

(37:07):
because I mean that damn yeah but then that but cop too who was what was his
what was his name the actor's name is he's like Ian Tracy Ian Tracy yes us
stalwart Canadian actor love like he was he was amazing in continuum and

(37:28):
travelers to very good Canadian shows and so it was like kind of a trip like I
didn't he wasn't anybody I knew when this for when I first saw this movie
back in the day but now seeing him like again after seeing those shows and it's
like a young version of this of this guy I was like oh holy crap like he's been
he's been playing a hard-bitten cop this whole time well true but I mean

(37:52):
realistically this movie isn't that old no that's true it's like this is this is
20 years old yeah yeah not even wait no yep no no no no no the years are
changing never mind it's not 2022 anymore I don't know why I mess that up
as often as I do there are there are some years where it's like everything

(38:13):
was on pause like okay still true I still have to be reminded occasionally
that the 90s were more than 10 years ago well that's I think I think the radio
screwed us for that and MTV you know oh that's true yes 80s 90s and today we

(38:34):
never they never changed that right like today has just been going on for 22 or
24 years that's a very good point yeah I always thought that was weird and I
still do when I hear that on the radio because they they still don't even say
two thousands no yeah and so I I blame radio for that weirdly then the casino

(38:58):
owner like Bernie can't figure out what to do and the casino owner loses it and
then he'd like fires Bernie and starts an investigation into Mahoney right
because Mahoney's gone to Vegas and so John Hurt is pissed why is my whale at
the Vegas casino that that traitorous little bitch and he starts tearing into

(39:19):
everybody over it he fires Bernie like what did you say to him I didn't do
nothing you're fucking fired he's turning he's turning to his other guy
he's like he's like I want to know everything about Mahoney I want to know
what kind of underwear he wears like he flips the fuck yeah the underwear line
first time that I have heard the expression but huggers in forever I

(39:42):
forgot that wasn't an expression which yeah dang that that cracked me up a lot
so many gets left and the Hoffman goes out he goes to Vegas he does his
gambling thing and he just leaves her in the hotel all night she leaves the

(40:04):
hotel room actually finds him in Vegas which I don't know how big Vegas was in
the 80s but that ain't happening these days well I mean she probably just I
mean he probably didn't wander off too far that she probably just went and
checked that that hotels casino is probably he didn't have to go far to
start gambling so she probably didn't have to go far to find him that maybe

(40:26):
okay that may be true but he is cleaning house in Vegas and John Hurt from
Atlantic City tells them get him off that table he's up he's over a million
dollars up get him out of there milk make sure that he gets that money 1.4
right 1.4 million he's actually up by over a million dollars in Vegas and he

(40:49):
just he can't tell us he can't tell his girl he cannot tell his girl because if
she knows how far he's up then she's gonna know because he can't walk away
how bad the problem is she'll kneecap him right there we like take the money
and run bitch John hurt yeah hurt should have called her right exactly but here's
something we never actually found out so hurt was the one who wanted him to get

(41:12):
off the table but it seemed like it there's so many left he didn't chase
after her and we never found out what got him off the table I felt like that
was a little bit of a mistake on the film because it was such a they set it
up so much and they never paid off because and they actually they did say
he actually did get out of there up even sent like a chunk of his winnings to

(41:33):
their bank for him to come play later like they made a big deal out of how he
really he really did take Vegas for all it was worth and yeah we never did find
out how of all in especially considering in every other part of this movie his
whole problem is that he can't stop and yet somehow he stopped here this is the

(41:55):
one time he managed to stop and it wasn't because of his his girlfriend
because he told her it basically to go fuck herself when she tried to get him
away from the table and we didn't well that's the thing like he just kept
saying a few more minutes a few more minutes a few more minutes and the
amount of pain that I felt every time he said that good acting very good acting

(42:17):
because that was because that was a there was a true and yeah Hoffman does
this performance where the guy is like truly in a manic state he's fully manic
he is so up he is so high on the winning and he is so desperate to keep it going
and she's sitting there going like come on let's just go and he's basically

(42:38):
trying to plead with her and and barely keeping back with the whole like get the
fuck out of my face you're ruining my luck you know like he's all the emotions
at once he's elated he's furious he's frustrated he's happier than he's ever
been in his life all at the same time and I'll be goddamn to Philip Seymour
Hoffman didn't get them all right oh yeah he absolutely brought it home and

(43:04):
then they find out how much money he makes and it's $22,000 a year and they
kind of want to know where it comes from and then that's where Bernie gets
his job back right well and I think that's kind of why you know jumping ahead
at the end of the movie we do see that some of the aftermath of this the bank
sued the casino for damages we don't know what the settlement was because it

(43:26):
was they settled out of court and it's a sealed settlement but apparently
something was figured out and it's probably at this moment where we where
you could say like they looked into Mahoney they saw he was only making 22 a
year working at a bank but he's gambling with hundreds of thousands of dollars
how could they not fucking know he was stealing it from the bank you'd have to

(43:48):
be an idiot to not figure that out disagree and yet disagree I mean still
if you if you go in and you have $500 you get it up to $10,000 you get it up to
quarter million dollars and then you just become one of those gamblers that
basically kind of like a lottery winner keeps their day job but then just goes

(44:08):
and rakes the money in those people do exist I'm not saying there's a ton of
them and that's and that's probably where the quote-unquote plausible
deniability now that's where I was going with it that is exactly okay yeah yeah
and it's probably why that the casino didn't get raked over the Coles Ford is
because they had that plausible deniability but at the same time it's

(44:30):
like John Hurt knew whoever John Hurt's character is based off of he fucking knew
he oh I'll absolutely agree with that but then we get back from Vegas and
Hoffman confronts driver and she asked like how much do you need like I have
$2,000 in my savings account is that enough and I just was like oh my heart

(44:51):
broke so hard when I realized what if she ever found out like that's that's
the moment where you just kind of want to sit there and go like baby leave him
I'll treat you like you're offering up your life's savings to this fucking

(45:11):
douchebags gambling debts that's love man that is a love that no man has okay
that might be love but I'm still like I'm still gonna call that damage there's
the we never found out if there was anything wrong with many drivers
character or anything like that where she came from we literally know nothing
about her okay that's fair the fact that you stay in something like that when

(45:35):
you're not even married like you're not like and I don't know what the times I
don't know what Canadian divorce was like in the 80s I know I got big in
America in the 70s right I have no idea and she literally stuck that out and the
thing was we never got to see Hoffman's character we never saw him be any kind
of even decent guy to her no that's true yeah that is a very good point it seemed

(46:00):
like that relationship I had some questions there but I mean it wasn't
what the movie was about how how you feel about Maddie Earp is kind of how I
feel about many drivers character in this okay all right you know what I see
what you're saying there I will go along with that yeah okay so we get to that
audit at the bank and they come through and it really seems like this is where

(46:24):
and when I saw like what the timestamp was in the movie I thought maybe the
last bit of the movie was maybe gonna be a trial I thought maybe we're gonna
start seeing some stuff like that but he dodges the audit amazingly pays off the
hundred thousand dollars that he got with that with those bare bonds I think
and he paid it off that day to dodge the audit talk about luck are you kidding me

(46:52):
if he would not have crushed it in Vegas on that one opportunity he would have
gone to jail then yep exactly yeah that's a very good point you know that
was a big one man yep that's that oh oh oh bowling with the family and this was
probably many drivers best moment in this movie is where they're tallying up

(47:16):
the scores and he leaves and she just looks after him he's like you don't
even want to know the scores right yeah like it's really starting to land on her
how little he cares about anything else it's it's an evening with her parents
it appears is what it appears to be they're out bowling and then just like
the game is barely over and he's like I'm out and he's like love you a good bit

(47:40):
have fun I gotta go I gotta go and she knows she knows he's getting on a plane
the fucking lingering on the scores lingering look after him many driver you
are an actor I mean she really sold that moment and the fact that all she had was
was he one two three four five six six words in this line but it was the look

(48:02):
that just completely sold it and made it an incredible moment I have many good
things to say about this movie oh dude this okay when Hoffman is going through
the airport security and he almost pulls that money out of his pocket and all
that he shoves it back in that little kid is like wow I 100% thought that he

(48:27):
was gonna get his money swiped by that kid yeah and then the very next scene we
get a little bit of a setup where this guy comes up and he offers him a ride
and you think he's gonna get jacked but weirdly he doesn't yeah there's all the
reason to believe like the guys like I gotta stop somewhere first and leaves
him in the car and yeah it's like there's no reason like with all the

(48:49):
things that happens there's he should have been jacked there's no reason that
he didn't except that he was in Canada right yeah well no this is already in
Atlantic Sea though yeah yeah yeah yeah right yeah so he's already in Atlantic
City and but yeah it was it was like enough of a close call that he's
freaking out now and he's sitting in the he's sitting in John Hurt's office and
John Hurt is trying really hard to calm him down like in a very sympathetic way

(49:13):
he's like we'll take care of your transportation from now John Hurt as
Satan trying to comfort Mahoney being like no no you don't need to be afraid
little boy we'll take care of you that brings up a really interesting question
has John Hurt ever actually played the devil
I can't think of any movie that he actually played the devil but what a

(49:36):
role that would have been for him yeah I want I want I want to check into that I
want to check into that and see if there's something that I'm not I'm not
thinking about I'm not remembering or if there's a British movie that I need to
go check out or say yeah yeah let me know if what you find out oh definitely
well so because of what we were just talking about he starts using the bank

(49:58):
system to transfer his funds which in my mind was the very first real mistake
mmm like once you start putting something that you can track everything
that has like actual evidence behind it like that was that was where I thought
his first mistake was and then I thought Perlin was gonna be his main downfall
yeah is that because they they tried they were doing a lot of weird hinky like

(50:22):
kind of illegal international banking but not quite you know and is all that
just just barely legal but definitely hinky as fuck in order for him to get
his money over to the over to the Atlantic City Casino without having to
carry cash which he's about that's the crazy he's already breaking the law

(50:45):
because every time he's going through customs between America and Canada with
the cash right he's bringing in tens if not hundreds of thousands of dollars
worth of cash and not declaring it that's that's already jail time right
there true I mean I loved the charge that they arrested him for at the end by

(51:08):
the way I know that I can't I can't wait I can't wait to get into that that was
yeah talk about Canada man right then there's the Selkirk Selkirk account
problem and what I was a little confused by is they thought they were over just
by half a million but it turned out to be over five million and they never
really explained to that or did I not or did you catch something that I didn't

(51:31):
well it because well because that's that's what we're it's one of the clue
ends we're giving is to just how bad it's gotten with Mahoney we know that
he's padding whenever they withdraw he pads the withdrawal to tip for himself to
get gambling money and according to her accountant there are only five hundred
thousand dollars over and then we go back to Mahoney and his bosses and

(51:53):
they're like how over are they again and he's like and they're like they're about
five million dollars over which means in the course of however long we've been
watching this three and he has stolen three and a half million dollars from
this poor lady that's how much money he has lost at Atlantic City and then at
this moment as so much and then at this moment the boss or the bank manager

(52:17):
tells him like it's gonna be a gamble and you see how much that intrigued
Mahoney and he walks out of there like I think he stole like one and a half
million from that one like right out of the gate yeah yeah right out of it now
yeah one and a half million like as soon as they as soon as they they strong-arm
her father to back the loan so that they can give them unlimited credit mm-hmm

(52:41):
hours later he's back on the on the on the plane to to Atlantic City with one
and a half million dollars in his account like he did it instantly but
God this is and this is the night I go I want to go back on it though and yeah
yeah this is the one you're talking about but I want to go back on that like
you were saying again with Philip Seymour Hoffman and the amazing work he

(53:04):
did because you said like when they say like we're it's gonna be a gamble to
try to try to get this to happen sure to get her father to back the loan and
like you said you can see it on Mahoney's face there was no change of
expression on Philip Seymour Hoffman's face I swear to God it was like he
somehow got his eyes to actually twinkle at that prospect like you saw you saw

(53:30):
him get excited at the idea even though nothing happened Jesus Christ it's like
that no it's like I talked about this in one of our first episodes but with Glenn
Close in the paper right there's a there's a realization that happens over
her but her eyes don't change her mouth doesn't change nothing about her face

(53:51):
changes it's just how she feels changes and it's it's such good acting that you
can feel it you can see it and you can watch nothing happening those are the I
mean you want to talk about the top tier of the a-listers the ones who have the
capabilities of doing things like that that for they are the ones okay so

(54:15):
Perlin being weird about going to get them going to get that money and sign
for it at the cage I that made me think that like Perlin was an informant or
Perlin knew that writing his name down on something was definitely the wrong
thing to do but weirdly we don't get an answer as to why he was nervous we see

(54:38):
that he's nervous and then he kind of laughs and like has that little racist
joke about the black lady looking like Tina Turner and but we never get to
actually hear why I think you're right that it partly has to do with knowing he
doesn't want to write his name down and you think because we saw that earlier
when when he first makes the fake loan and pays him off with a check he's like

(55:02):
you know don't write it in my name like he doesn't like he's he's a tried and
true gangster there's no paper trail to him and so yeah I think to a certain
degree he is just generally nervous about signing his name on something to
get the money also the whole situation is weird why did I have to come to the
airport to sign a piece of paper just to get the cash that you owe me this is
weird dude like what is going on that is true I guess I didn't take it to that

(55:26):
point but that is very very true but and but this also is like because the cops
who have a tap on his phone are also like well this is weird why does he got
to go to the airport to get cash we should go check it out and so that's why
the cops are there to witness the exchange and that's what unravels
everything for Mahoney again which I thought it was like it's bad luck to go

(55:50):
through customs without a bag and then he runs off and he has to buy that and
completely unnecessary scene but it was a wonderful addition to the story yes
yes little scenes like that I do I do really enjoy those but then Minnie shows
up and just before before this and Hoffman is constantly deflecting like an

(56:11):
addict does and she bought him a really nice coat and she's gone like this is it
it feels like their breakup moment even though it doesn't happen now because
she's because I thought she was gonna say I'm not gonna be there but she's
like you're not gonna be there are you like she's still waiting for him and it

(56:34):
just broke my heart like every time every time she was on screen it just
broke my heart even more and good job the discussion on the plane about the
pros and cons of winning and losing and a little bit of discussion about Niagara
Falls this is the moment you were talking about earlier back to the
casino and Mahoney is a big man now the high roller treatment yep the security

(57:02):
guards are stopping people and they're walking him in he gets that and what I
thought was really funny too because when we have that same juxtaposition
where we're watching Mahoney get that treatment like you saw earlier in the
movie that other high roller at the beginning of the movie he was as he was
walking in with security all around him he was getting flanked by a couple of
models on other side as he's walking through as Mahoney's walking in he's

(57:25):
being flanked on either side by the two ladies who work a cage who came on the
plane with him one one's the lady who looks like Tina Turner and the other
one's just some little old lady who's had enough of all this shit for a long
time yeah no I mean but that was that was Hoffman he did like that was his
character he didn't care about the booze the women nothing he didn't think he
just cared about the gambling or as he says finances right but then this was a

(57:52):
really cool moment that was just shy of being a running gag his whole his whole
like I don't have a gambling problem I have a I have financial issues that was
just shy of being an actual running gag because they're where I do agree with
you perfect line from from a gambling addict yes absolutely example I don't

(58:14):
have a drug problem I have a pain problem and I need drugs right yeah that
this is this is his version of that like it that is a perfect response like this
movie kind of perfect I really don't know how to argue that the cops looking
into the cages and learning from this but then something that I've never heard

(58:36):
of I've never seen in any movie I don't think Mahoney bust the table
I have heard of that before I've heard it in a couple of yeah a couple of
different contexts where there's busting the table which is that you know they
give the they they allocate a certain number of chips to each table and if that

(58:59):
table loses it all then they don't see I suppose not everybody's gonna know what
bust means that's a good point to explain that yeah so they they yeah so
they and if that table happens to lose all those chips they've been allocated
they don't just get more chips from the bank they literally shut that table down
until the next day I don't know if that's just a general practice or if

(59:19):
there's some sort of gaming law about that but there is something to do with
that not a clue in my mind that probably seems like a cooler situation
probably yeah but then there's also breaking the bank which is to say that
they've when one person wins more chips then they have cash in the vault to back
them up with that's called breaking the bank and oh well there's kind of the

(59:41):
same thing yeah okay all right so he's basically one more money at that table
than that then they have the ability to pay him out from that table so and that
look between him and John Hurt where Hoffman is just in his eyes like in my
mind what he is saying is I won yeah and that's what that's what that exchange

(01:00:04):
was to me but I'm not a hundred percent sure but then he moves over to another
game and then that's where he starts losing he has a little bit of a
hallucination with himself like he hallucinates hallucinates seeing
himself in the crowd watching him and that and that and that is a and that is

(01:00:25):
a call and that is a call back to when he was like watching that high roller
again at the beginning and I think that's kind of what they're basically
saying is he has he has reached the dream you know from where from where he
stood as just a tiny vagabond gambler you know with a gambling problem I saw

(01:00:45):
that as a warning I didn't see that as okay but that well that's how I saw it
and and maybe so he's at the peak he's one you know more than he could imagine
he's popular because you know not only is he getting the high roller treatment
from the casino but also as he's continuing to win at the craps table
there's a crowd of people around the craps table cheering every time he wins

(01:01:08):
like this is literally the height like this right here is everything he's
dreamed of and I think to a certain degree I think something that that
reason why when he sees himself in the crowd that little vision of himself in
the crowd mm-hmm reminding himself of who he was when he was in that moment
dreaming of this moment I think he's thinking to himself oh shit it's all

(01:01:32):
downhill from here okay yeah see that was the warning that was the warning
okay I see where you're coming from okay yeah and Bernie is begging him to
walk right John has that moment with I think like cuz if John hurt is the casino
manager then I think he's talking to the owner or something but he's like he's
talking to is the is the the guest services man something so they're kind

(01:01:56):
of like yeah I think I think they're good like kind of like partners but not
really you know I don't know the way that he threatened him in this moment
did not feel like a partnership type thing like he's like you if he's if he
walks away with nine million like he like he threatened him I don't like yeah
which again holy shit he's up nine million yeah but it's like as soon as

(01:02:18):
Bernie warns him and he turns Bernie down and all that streak is over that's all
his problem solved he could pay off everything he's stolen and have enough
to have the greatest honeymoon with many driver that anybody could ever dream but
he and and Bernie's they're telling him dude stop and he won't and he doesn't

(01:02:40):
and he loses it in a matter of hours he burns through nine million dollars at a
casino yep oh god yeah rough John hurts and John hurts smiling oh yeah and then
we get that he's doing it I told you so grin to everybody on his staff oh yeah

(01:03:02):
and then we get that moment where he's saying goodbye to Bernie and Bernie
really is a good dude and you kind of feel that you just feel bad for Bernie
the whole way through right the casino owner a lot less so because the last
thing that we hear from him is now you're really fired like yeah that was
because John hurt watched him try to get the guy to walk away yes so there was no

(01:03:27):
way he was keeping his job after that well and interestingly too is I think to
like I think what we're getting from this is that John hurt somehow like maybe
he doesn't know exactly how but he knows that Mahoney's not coming back because
as Mahoney's leaving he's got he's standing there he's like hey I made your
favorite ribs with no sauce and a coke and he literally says this is goodbye

(01:03:50):
mr. Mahoney and and no no no you're taking that you're taking that the wrong
way John hurt was trying to get a job in Vegas and because of what just went down
with Hoffman hurt was getting promoted to Vegas so it wasn't that Hoffman wasn't
coming back oh I never caught back I never caught any of that yeah like at
the very last thing that like the guest services guy that you were talking

(01:04:12):
about very last thing that he says to him is they're gonna love you in Vegas
oh see I assume that was like as in they'd be pissed that the Vegas lost a
million and then he got that million back so the person who was running
Vegas is the one who got the fault and then he got all that money like he got

(01:04:33):
it returned so no I don't think it was him saying goodbye like that Hoffman was
not gonna return he was literally the one that was going from AC to Vegas and
I took it like he knows he knows a crash when he sees it he's like I've seen guys
like you crash and burn before you're not coming back this is the see I don't
think he was I don't think he would have not I don't think he would have done

(01:04:53):
that because hurt knew and he knows the addicts like right okay when you get
back on your feet you'll come back and I'll take you right off it again like
but because they said that they're gonna love you in Vegas that was him saying
goodbye because hurt was on to bigger and better things okay so I didn't catch

(01:05:14):
any of that I okay all right and then I really liked the detectives response
with all the cops prepping to go erase them oh that was who you think this
we're going butch Cassidy right yeah that was fun I really enjoyed that yep I
said a couple of cars and there's like 12 of them there and the beat cops just
like hey you know it's a slow night we're all we're all here yeah and I like

(01:05:36):
that like he calls many to ask about a trip to Niagara Falls and she just hangs
up that was my fine like thank you thank you for finally doing this for yourself
driver thank you when and that's and that's kind of part of the pattern too
because like for him he's not just when after he loses this big money and we saw
it like when he lost the 15 grand we saw it when he lost the the 20 grand and all

(01:05:59):
that for him when he's having that crash when he's coming back from Atlanta City
and he's clearly in the throes of depression he's not thinking about how
much money he lost and he can't and he's not gonna get it back he's crashing
because the game is over you know and he can't and so he's looking for
something else he's looking for some other about and he would turn to her he'd

(01:06:21):
be like hey do you want to go on a trip hey let's do something night like she
was like the next like reassurance that he had and she's caught on to it now I
don't really see that because he's vanished for a weekend and then calls
her up out of the blue in the morning hey maybe we should go to Niagara Falls
she knows what's up and she's like no I'm not gonna be your safety net today

(01:06:43):
and like that and see I took that as like she said like you're not gonna be
there and then like when she gave him the jacket and left I thought that was
the full-on breakup and like that was her like getting the call from the ex
boyfriend and then just hanging up right away okay also probably true yes yes he
wasn't like that's the thing like the the mini driver and her and him

(01:07:05):
relationship it wasn't super clear like there were a lot of questions that I
still like that that is literally the one fault in this movie hmm we don't get
enough about that how their dynamic well a lot of a lot of their dynamic is a
question right okay and that's that that is that is the one thing that I that is

(01:07:25):
literally my nitpick on this because this is a phenomenal movie doc how many
movies do you watch that don't have car chases
everyone more I mean I feel like more than most I've never been a car chase

(01:07:46):
person you know but it kind of seems like you are not intentionally I'm not
I'm not a huge fan of car chases but I did here's the thing I do love a good
ironic car chase like this one oh no this was fantastic like this was the
saddest car chase I had ever seen like even the detective is like sitting back

(01:08:07):
there as he's watching his car break down he's trying to start again he's
like all right take him like you just like like this was this was a mercy
killing at this point yeah it was it really frickin was and then they
arrest him and suspicion of theft over $200 that is that has got to be my

(01:08:29):
favorite line of the movie you're under arrest under suspicion of theft of over
$200 and you see the look on on Hoffman's face too where he's like
really that's okay yeah this is gonna be a big day for you and me both millions
and it's just over $200 in credit I I got I had so much fun with that which I

(01:08:54):
mean I imagine I reasoned it in my head it probably has is one of those like you
know like the difference between theft and grand theft here in America sure
like Rand Larson like yeah right it's like one's a misdemeanor one's a felony
kind of thing and then like but they probably have something similar to that
in Canada but for them the line is $200 and so yeah no and then our final payoff

(01:09:18):
of I don't have a gambling problem I have a financial problem and I loved all
the reactions that they were everybody was finding out right those were great
like yeah I'm sorry his Mahoney impossible right like the bad his boss
was literally his boss was literally saying to the cops you're full of shit
there's no way this guy stole money yeah no that was like I love the reactions

(01:09:43):
were all incredible I thank God it's me reading my notes because I have this
mini bails him out whoa the Huey Lewis power right which what what translates

(01:10:03):
please yeah like the power of love okay except she's not the one who bails him
out what do you mean it's the the lady that he stole from bails him out
remember the the lady that ran that yeah the the lady that ran the account that
they had that early gamble on where they were extended her her line of credit so

(01:10:27):
that Mahoney could steal even more from it her accountants telling her what
happened and she is so happy because that bank has been treating her like
shit and saying you're nothing we're after your father's money and she's
been putting up with it this whole time and so she says I finally got something
on these bastards let's go bail him out yeah but why would she bail him out rich

(01:10:52):
people man yeah okay sure I guess that makes no sense to me but many and so the
film is over he's in therapy he gets six years in prison so yes he gets a six
year sentence for fraud married many drivers character on a pass from jail

(01:11:13):
basically a conjugal visit pretty much states so I've been placed a bit since
which okay granted that was that was 20 years ago so I never believe stuff like
that yeah but we talked about this the bank

(01:11:36):
sued the casino and settled out of court and the bank garnished Mahoney's funds
for years to get some of that money back but we don't know how much money and we
don't know how many years and we're waiting they certainly didn't get it all
back there's no way he ever received any paycheck that would have accumulated to
the millions of dollars yeah the millions that he took no way all right so

(01:11:59):
final thoughts on owning Mahoney okay I've got some things to say about this
all right what do you got all right so the reason why I picked this movie why I
wanted to go over this movie why this is a movie why that I think while it is you
know a lesser known film and I think more people should see is because and we

(01:12:21):
had this conversation very briefly some time ago when we were talking about
politics and I said I think that one of our major problems that we have in this
country is that all of our politicians and all of our major corporations and
business owners are basically run by gambling addicts oh yeah this is the
saying that yeah this is what I'm thinking of this watching this movie back

(01:12:44):
when I first saw it when it can first came out has been in my head every time
I see one of these politicians pulling their shit I'm looking like they're
they're Mahoney I can see Mahoney in their eyes like they are they don't care
about the money they don't care about the prestige they don't care they're
they're addicted to the game that's why they keep pulling this shit oh I thought

(01:13:06):
I think as I was watching this I thought Mahoney was a full sociopath right
yeah still do and but but yeah so that's kind of like why I felt this movie was
important is I think that's it we we need to stop you need to stop treating
some of these these power addicts as though they are people who can be

(01:13:28):
reasoned with because they're they're not people who can be reasoned with they
are addicts and until you know and we can see just how they can be blind to
how they can lie to themselves about what they're doing and that's kind of
what I think I personally felt it needs to be kept in mind when when we think
about you know our political figures and stuff like that is that you know they

(01:13:53):
they are addicts and we can sit here and say like well but don't you care about
this they don't they don't care no they're addicted to the game I where I
do agree with you a lot of it is about power and it's about the trip of
being like the power trip and what you can do with said power right this movie

(01:14:15):
is definitely more about I mean it is about addiction it is a true story about
addiction and it's not the first time that this one has been told there was a
the same story was told and it was called the borrower and I think it was
like 1984 what was it it came out hmm but they told this story immediately
after it happened they made a different movie about it so this isn't really a

(01:14:38):
remake but it is the second attempt at telling the story and okay I think it
I think it's an incredible film I think it's incredible story I enjoy the fact
that it's a true story but it is kind of a happy ending for a sociopath which
makes it a kind of a weird movie well and okay and that that's one of those

(01:15:01):
things that I also want to talk about with that last therapy session which I
found fascinating because the therapist asked him like you know from a scale of
one to a hundred how much of a thrill was gambling for you and and oh yeah
well no he said he said gambling was a hundred and then and then he goes and

(01:15:24):
how about the next most exciting thing in your life oh okay and he goes and he
goes that was that was a 20 and so he goes and are you okay with and he goes
how do you feel about spending the rest of your life only getting as high as 20
and Mahoney says oh that's fine that's fine and yeah the Mahoney said a lot of

(01:15:44):
shit throughout this movie so that's the that's the thing is like I'm I'm I don't
know if this was intentional on Hoffman's part as a performance or just
or what but in that scene you're like oh he's fucking lying he's lying his ass
off to it to that therapist that's what I thought yeah all right so wrap up the

(01:16:06):
first section and head over to the second all right all right all right guys
we're gonna take a hundred percent must see oh yeah definitely it must see
tremendous acting a true story the performances it was shot pretty well
there were some unnecessary shots and when we had Mahoney coming into the

(01:16:27):
casino and he was he was the high roller the way that they applied the music to
that scene but they didn't shoot it any differently I thought they should have
shot it a little bit differently to match with that music because I thought
the music was like the music was amazing music was amazing it did not match the
cinematography okay I thought if you change the music to that degree to show

(01:16:52):
what is happening here you also should have changed the cinematography a little
bit and done a little bit mmm fancy footwork basically is what I'm gonna say
okay I see what you're saying because of what the music did to the audience if
they got any recommendations for us go ahead toss them in
playing with fire bread we have had some rough ones I I will have to admit that

(01:17:18):
there's haha yeah what were my exact words all right does our audience hate
us I believe is what I said you maybe after how much you ripped into Requiem
all right since since I wasn't gonna say it but since you brought it up Mahoney

(01:17:41):
is a better story about addiction than Requiem is
I'm not touching that with a ten-foot pole man no no okay no no no yes I am
yes I am no it's not the Mahoney owning Mahoney covers one story of addiction
and it's a very very good one but Requiem for a Dream did an amazing job

(01:18:04):
of showcasing four different aspects of the drug of the drug problem and I know
you hate it I got a fight for it just because man how much it hurt me how much
it hurt me all right you ready for round two I'm ready for round two I don't

(01:18:26):
appreciate the adversarial approach we have to the movies now I do agree with
you but at least I am at least at least I can fight for both movies at least I'm
not coming in here just attacking like I am singing a lot of praise for owning

(01:18:47):
Mahoney I'm like it's I'm trying to have as much integrity as I possibly can with
the movie fights but you know it gets personal I'm not gonna but that but
that's thing is like I'm I I'm not choosing these movies for their abilities
to stand up against other movies I'm choosing them based on what I think

(01:19:08):
people should be should see or or even just for me to revisit for to check like
is this something that is still valid for for audiences today I don't I'm not
really going for winners I'm just going with my favorites okay I just yeah you
have a you you you do have a specific purpose and it is a lot of fun going

(01:19:32):
through and watching and talking about those movies but not all of them are
bangers like okay but I'm gonna say owning Mahoney was yeah like I'm not
I'm not I'm not fighting that in any way but moving on to number two for the
night finders fee written by Jeff Probst yes written and directed by that Jeff

(01:20:01):
Probst the host of Survivor wrote and directed two movies and I've only seen
one of them but why did he stop not cool do you know what do you know what the
other one was what title is I should have written it down but I didn't know
but if it's as good as this mmm damn hmm but also written by Jim and I want to

(01:20:27):
say Julian even though it's spelled Gullian hmm okay hey man I know Gullia
is a last name we all saw a wedding singer she almost became Julia Gullia
right that is something of a deep cut not that deep no the cast on this though

(01:20:48):
mmm starring Eric Palladino Ryan Reynolds dash Mihawk and Matthew Lillard I wanted
to say also Carly Pope but not really no I like I wasn't even 100% sure that was
her real voice like it seemed like they a yard her with a separate person in all
of her lines I wasn't really sure about that but you could have been right yeah

(01:21:11):
but the heavy hitter on this James Earl Jones right yeah but
was this actually with anybody because it kind of seemed to be starring
everybody it well I mean there was the the the little old lady that lived
across the way Francis Bay right right I mean she was kind of a bit player she

(01:21:34):
she was a pretty big deal and she did she wasn't clearly wasn't to throw away a
performance for sure no and there was also she had an amazing moment yeah but
then there's also the cop who comes in and out in a couple of scenes James
Forrester is that his name but we open on essentially what this entire movie is

(01:21:55):
about and it is a lost wallet and Eric Palladino being a good neighbor stopping
with Francis Bay offering her some food the little old lady like we see that
this is a pretty good dude yeah and we get kind of our like first and almost
only look as with Carly Pope as Carla and she goes full board she's like I

(01:22:18):
don't know why you don't check the numbers and then she checks the numbers
and writes them down she writes them down so in I got a question for you did
Carly know that it was the winning numbers she did right she had he had not
he does not find the lottery ticket until after she leaves thank you thank

(01:22:38):
you you're right you're right you're right but then I didn't know until the
end of the movie but when Carla left she looked really sad and it wasn't until
the end of the movie that I understood why yeah there was a lot like that whole
that whole conversation with the two of them it seemed like they were dropping a
lot of hints of things to come without really explaining it and it took like a

(01:23:02):
little while later for us to realize what they were talking about as far as
their relationship as far as his relationship with his friends that are
all coming over that night yeah it was kind of a weird scene like part of me
almost like went back and watched it a second time but the movie got rolling so
I never did I was just like I'm confused here but I will say this is definitely a

(01:23:27):
movie to watch more than once for sure yeah well and you know and we were
talking about this before like it's like a play you know this is like Glenn Gary
Glenn Ross or or 12 angry men it's like there was a part of me watching this
going like was this originally a stage play because it is all very encapsulated
into a single scene it's all very high energy performances oh it could have if

(01:23:51):
it did not get turned into a play after it was written that was a huge mistake
yeah like it was it was ripe for high quality stage performance especially from
Matthew Lillard like holy shit he was just on fire this entire movie I want to
say that this was the height of Matthew Lillard but what year 2003 that's

(01:24:17):
probably yeah that's probably about right then yeah scream post scream post
scooby-doo one but pre scooby-doo two so yeah and like maybe the height of his
fame but let's be real Matthew Lillard's talent is kind of never ending that's
true like a while while his while his fame has gone up and down his talent has

(01:24:41):
only gotten better over the years what was kind of crazy about this movie
set aside from James Earl Jones and Forrester mm-hmm you kind of didn't know
which one of these guys was gonna be like the big one yeah like this was
before Van Walder came out this is before and that was kind of interesting

(01:25:04):
because it was probably one of the most straight man performances from Ryan
Reynolds I can remember seeing like there was you know no no no put that on
the list sometime later in the season yeah okay but yeah cuz it's like there's
none none of that smarm is there he had zero comedy lines and it didn't come off

(01:25:24):
weird at all he didn't come off like a comedy actor trying to be serious he was
a full-on he was in the role he was believable as this dude as he's in any
other role you know so it was it was kind of a it was kind of interesting to
see I think it's the first time I've ever seen him that way I've only known
him as you know you know Ryan Reynolds really yeah like that Deadpool and

(01:25:47):
Deadpool adjacent versions you know yeah because this was before really the world
kind of understood Ryan Reynolds personality and the industry knew how to
use his personality as in writing right yeah like this was just flat-out straight
incredible acting incredible storytelling and I cannot think of a

(01:26:11):
technical failure when it came to the cinematography or the score anything on
on I mean on quite the opposite there were moments in here which again is like
you're telling me that this is a first-time director here and I'm like
Jesus there were some bold shit done in here that worked amazingly well and a

(01:26:32):
lot of that had to do with thinking of the comb no but that is one of them by
my first thing the thing that really got me was when James Earl Jones his
character first shows up and there's that scene where Eric Pellet well
Paladino is standing at the doorway and all of his buddies are at the are at the

(01:26:53):
card table going hey what's going on let's play cards while you're at the
door and he's waiting for James Earl Jones to come up the stairs like it is a
long drawn-out scene of just pure tension building that should have been
awkward but it wasn't it was tense as shit and like I'm kind of like that

(01:27:16):
whole scene I'm sitting there going like oh oh fuck oh fuck why am I so stressed
out this is and crap I got first time director first time oh come on did we
get Paladino prepping for the game he tries to report the wallet but you know
no driver's license anything like that which the fact that there's no picture

(01:27:37):
in the wallet really really paid off in this movie
mm-hmm holy shit did that pay off yeah oh my god it calls leaves a message and
I wrote here that like he realizes that it has the first three numbers matching
but it wasn't it wasn't until later in the film that I realized that the

(01:27:59):
lottery was only a three number lottery oh okay like I thought that he was like
man we're I'm really on the way and then he like never turned it to see the other
three numbers or something so I thought that he just kind of like that he didn't
know but he was when he first when he first looks at it I caught it I only saw
like one like I think it was like when he's rifling through wallet he sees the

(01:28:21):
lottery ticket number there and he just kind of glances at it and see and only
fast enough to see that it's a lottery ticket he's not really looking at the
numbers no no no very very shortly after that he starts comparing the numbers and
then like he really starts comparing the numbers but because I'm not used to
three number lottery tickets that never even crossed my mind right okay like I

(01:28:43):
don't think I've ever seen the three number lottery ticket not that I can
recall no no but when Lillard shows up absolutely freaking out about Quigley
and everything else that was like that is the energy that Matthew Lillard
perfected yeah anytime you wanted a character to bring that energy Matthew
Lillard you just you got him and you knew it was gonna be an a-plus

(01:29:06):
performance yep no he's he's in and again this is more stuff like we don't
find out until later what their deal is with the lottery tickets but right out
of the gate Lillard is talking about it he's like we're not supposed to look up
the number like he's he his girlfriend has checked the numbers written him down
handing him to him he knows what the winning numbers are and then what

(01:29:28):
Lillard comes in shouting about how the deal was we're not supposed to know what
the numbers are why you know he's like I can hear his TV on downstairs he I'm
telling you he's looking at the numbers like something like we don't know why
why is Lillard freaking out about whether or not they know what the
lottery number what the lottery ticket numbers are we just know he's freaking
out about it but our our main character dude does know he's exactly what he's

(01:29:52):
pissed about he knows and so it's like that like and so we've got added tension
there and we don't know why there's added tension of he's stealing a lottery
ticket from a stranger hoping the guy doesn't show up and you know there's
something something to do with the lottery tickets that they're doing that
night they're not supposed to know what's a winning you know well that's the

(01:30:13):
deal so they go in on the game every week and they bet the lottery tickets
that they get without looking at the numbers and like it's weird because I
don't know like we're not we're not told whether they randomize their tickets or
anything like that whether they know their own numbers or not but the winning
ticket is in this game and yeah when Lillard shows up he's freaking out about

(01:30:38):
how Reynolds is like he always looks at the numbers everything like that which
as it turns out he didn't Reynolds didn't know the numbers
no he did it was they got on the phone they found out the winning numbers and
then Reynolds was able to put it together because of James Earl Jones

(01:30:59):
birthday or he was talking about his granddaughter's birthday huh but I assume
he jumped on the phone standing next to Paladino to get the winning numbers see
I assumed that that was what he knew it all along that's why he jumped in on the
on the car you might you might be right you might be right I might yeah okay so
maybe you recognize it yeah okay okay I can maybe right I'll eat that one but

(01:31:24):
this is the moment that Dash Mihawk and Ryan Reynolds show up Dash Mihawk in
everything like it nobody knows his name I know nobody's gonna know who I'm
talking about when I say Dash Mihawk he's not even on the poster right yep but
every time he shows up in anything he absolutely delivers there is not a

(01:31:45):
failure in that man's career I can every single thing that I have ever seen him
in he has been absolutely delightful and a perfect addition to the cast and and
he's in this movie up against Matthew Lillard Ryan Reynolds and and James Earl
Jones and he holds his own in the whole way through like yeah but I gotta say
the the friendship between these guys felt really genuine mm-hmm like it

(01:32:08):
wasn't just a bunch of dudes showing up and liking each other it was a bunch of
you showing up and hating each other and that's friends yeah they were it would
these were brothers like these were guys who have known each other since
kindergarten obviously because you you don't you don't piss on somebody that
hard that consistently unless you have been friends forever yeah unless you've
got the history of all the good times to kind of like juxtapose that right no

(01:32:33):
these were these were good buddies yeah and they are and they show it by being
absolute dicks to each other oh yeah non-stop but and like and so part of
what's informing Paladino's character in this movie is the fact that everybody
knows that he's supposed to get engaged that night so all of his weird behavior
about the lottery ticket and all the stuff it's all easily brushed aside

(01:32:56):
because of how nervous he is about the engagement which right including that
end of the story my mind brilliant right like we're giving a good reason for his
behavior to be explained I thought that was great right and and it was good it
was a good addition I thought it was a little weird because of how they kind of

(01:33:18):
like played it too because apparently what happened from what I gathered maybe
because a lot of this dialogue went by really fast so you kind of had to you
kind of had to like pick out what everyone's talking about but apparently
his girlfriend gave him a six-month ultimatum either you propose to me or we
break up and apparently tonight was the night and so even though he has not said

(01:33:41):
I'm going to propose to you she's expecting to be proposed to and all of
his friends know that he's proposing to her he's bought the ring and everything
but that's why later on in the movie when all this shit's going down and he
doesn't answer the phone when she calls she assumes that means we're breaking up
and that's like an added like bomb to the whole to the whole situation is that

(01:34:03):
not only is the situation in his house getting out of hand but his he literally
just lost the woman he was gonna propose to which personally and this has nothing
to do with the movie this is just a personal thing if any woman ever said to
me you have six months to propose to me or we're done we're done that day I see

(01:34:23):
where you're coming from I do where you're coming from with that but I also
do see where the woman is coming from in that I like where Carl is coming from
with this if you want to start a life and you want to do that and you like
this is the person that you do want it to be with but if that person is never
going to be the one to actually take you seriously then yeah the healthy thing is

(01:34:47):
to move on yeah I do I do see that I do see that and it kind of throwing down
the gauntlet like that I do see how that's icky I definitely do I definitely
do however sometimes you need the strong one in the relationship to throw down
the gauntlet to make the relationship move forward for sure 100% I agree which

(01:35:13):
is why and this is a conversation that has come up repeatedly over time you
know in little bits and pieces over the course of the show ladies you could
propose
where that is and is true
that that that technically definitely is true I still don't see that going well

(01:35:39):
for a lot of people when tell us the proposal story oh well she got down on
one knee here's the thing here's the thing and and that that is exactly what
happened to Dan Harmon the creator of Rick and Morty his current wife proposed

(01:36:01):
to him down on one knee the whole shebang okay well I like it so it's so
it's possible it's possible it is it is within the realms of reality that's what
I'm saying okay and I think and I think we should promote this I am NOT saying
there's anything wrong that I'm just saying there's gonna be a bunch of
people that if a if a woman proposed to a dude I could see it happen it like

(01:36:25):
going a couple a few different ways mm-hmm dude says yes dude says no right
dude like begs her to stand up and then drops down to one knee and proposes to
her instead which yeah I can see that happening probably a lot I could see
that being the most likely scenario mm-hmm like honestly because I mean that

(01:36:47):
is like no matter what like no matter like what you want to say tough guy
toxic masculinity anything like that we are kind of raised our entire lives to
be the one to do that and to have that moment and to plan them and that's
supposed to be like we're raised to where that is supposed to be a
successful moment for us yeah and I did so I can I 100% understand where people

(01:37:12):
would have a problem with it mm-hmm I wouldn't have but yeah no I see where
you're coming from this is this is not something I expect to happen overnight
I'm just putting it out there into ether maybe in a couple of generations it'll
be a thing that's that's what that's my hope the Sadie Hawkins proposals exactly
yes why not why not they know it doesn't like we're reaching for gender equality

(01:37:35):
here this is one of the ways we get there is by you know gender equal what's
the word ambition no fuck what's the word I'm looking for initiative that's
a gender equal initiative all I'm gonna say is ladies to paychecks I did like

(01:38:01):
that me Hawk had so much so much fun in him with the like come to me with come
with me to dance class and all this and right Reynolds is a wine seller and he
shows up with wine and roses and all this like it brings wine to poker night
and just gets absolutely ripped into and I love that I got a guy like like when

(01:38:27):
he takes that moment like I got a guy that is a fantastic moment because if
you are around your buddies and you say I got a guy you're gonna get tore into
that was very real and I appreciate sure that like the dynamics that they brought
in I really appreciated I've been that guy I have said hey I've got a guy and
had everyone else at the table go you fucking what well you've got a guy huh

(01:38:50):
yeah yeah yeah they're like dude motherfucker everyone you know is at
this table who what guy do you got that is I'm like he's my cousin honestly when
you're a dude when you do like into your 30s you're lucky if you got five close
friends exactly yes no that is that is a very good point but this is the moment

(01:39:15):
where you were talking about where James Earl Jones shows up and Palladino is
full panic and yeah as he's hiding because he hit he'd all but claimed it
because he left the message and he knew it wasn't to the guy he knew there was a
phone number to someone named Victor inside Avery's wallet so he's like okay
maybe this dude Victor knows who Avery is so he calls leaves a message and kind

(01:39:39):
of doesn't think twice about it and then it's after that he discovers the winning
lottery ticket in there and he even asks Lillard he asked Lillard a sort of
metaphorical question like hey if you know you happen to find the thing and
you did and Lillard goes like dude you did your good deed you made your attempt
fucking forget about it and he's like yeah forget it and he literally chucks

(01:39:59):
the wallet into the garbage like I'm in the clear and then James Earl Jones
calls he's like you called my brother-in-law and said that you found my
wallet I'm here can I can I come get it and the instant panic sets in because he
he already he had the money in his hand he'd already put the lottery ticket in

(01:40:22):
his shirt pocket and was like I'm in the money he's practically singing and
dancing you know and then I cared it and you can see it in his mind and like I
said that building tension when he's opened up the door and he's waiting for
James Earl Jones because you can see the clockwork moving in his head where he's

(01:40:42):
like how can I still keep the tickets and not be the bad guy like I want to
rip this dude off but I'm not that guy it but it's six million dollars like
yep and that that's all going through his head and that tension is building

(01:41:03):
and like I said it's a scene where kind of sort of nothing is happening worse
he's standing in the doorway we see the stairs we hear the footsteps of James
Earl Joe's coming up we've got Lillard in the back of the room going dude are
we gonna play cards or what it's just kind of a nothing scene except you can
feel that like I said I'm sitting there going like Jesus why am I so tense that

(01:41:26):
yeah no this was a shit incredibly well shot so then he comes in he has that
exchange with Paladino and he calls in his wife and Jones comes into the house
he calls his tries to call his wife and maybe maybe maybe like we don't really
know that's our that's our first hint that there might be something up with

(01:41:49):
with Avery yep and he like see and Paladino is trying to get rid of him as
hard as he can and then we have that dart game moment and that's kind of our
first little real hint that we're dealing with a con man like he comes in
he's like oh I like darts or maybe I can play like it comes in bam bullseye yeah

(01:42:12):
we start seeing he comes in he's acting humble he plays them and then he wins
the game it is a perfect example of a hustler yes absolutely thank you and oh
my god Reynolds character is so wildly bitchy in this movie and it's really
kind of fun because I don't get to see you rolls like that with Ryan Reynolds

(01:42:36):
anymore no it's true yeah like going he's got he's got a little character
kind of a wormy he's kind of a wormy kind of like whiny not not quite a slimy
dick until like later on in the movie but we can already tell like he's just
kind of it's just something off about the dude you know he's not he's not the

(01:42:57):
best guy you know he's he's an okay guy you know he seems to like his friends he
seems to be an okay guy but he's not a great guy you know and it's and it's all
done very realistically it's a good he seems like a good guy and a really bad
situation right that's the thing like he didn't he doesn't really seem that

(01:43:18):
awful like the only thing he's in a mountain of dead he can't move out of
town he wants to go be with his child but he literally can't because he's in
so much debt he can't leave right like yeah he is in wild misery because he
doesn't have the capability of doing the things that he actually wants to do
right yeah yeah and and it's and it's raw too because he like the first chance

(01:43:42):
he gets to tell James Earl Jones about his situation he does he like so this is
like let's get there yeah okay the cops being outside is an actual really solid
reason for the story to make James Earl Jones have to stay and then old lady
Francis Bay stops by all wildly scared and the heart that you're really feeling

(01:44:03):
from all of these characters in this situation like you really feel on a lot
of tension and I'm and where you're saying it was written like a play big
things are happening we just don't get to see them right exactly yeah exactly
written like a play but I gotta say man like the joy in Jones's face that when
he's forced to stay then he gets to be like a part of the game and everything

(01:44:26):
like that I felt it like that was a thing like where I started to like
couldn't really feel that it was a con man because it really felt genuinely
happy to be able to sit there and play a game and be part of the boys like his
story he was playing his story really well yeah and well and also at the same
time it seemed kind of like like it well and this again goes to like we get these

(01:44:49):
random little hints of what's up with a bird Avery James Earl Jones's character
and he's so eager to stick around and and you can tell that that Paladino
suspects this this is part of his whole thing too is that he knows that the
tickets been swiped and has been swapped out because he didn't he didn't just

(01:45:10):
take the guy's ticket he put his losing ticket in its place and he and he's like
he knows he knows and he's sticking around to try and to try and get the
real ticket like so Paladino's trying to basically like play defense on James
Earl Jones without giving away the game because he doesn't know for sure what

(01:45:32):
Jones does or doesn't know but he suspects and there's a lot of reason
for the audience to think he's right that absolutely well that's the thing
knows what's going on and so every that Jones was looking at him gave the game
away completely time after time after time mm-hmm and that was every that was
key every excuse yeah every excuse for him to stick around and keep trying to

(01:45:54):
work Paladino yeah he was elated about because he knows he knows you've got my
ticket and I'm gonna get it from you yep and that's the thing so Jones kept
going to that silverware drawer because he knew how much pilot Paladino was like
focusing on that standing in front of it so when he went to go like I need to
find a pen and like he goes into that drawer and but he already took the ticket

(01:46:16):
out like you which like you said he's a natural con man he clocked Paladino's
tails way ahead of time yeah yeah no that was honestly phenomenal and I wrote
in here like there was too much quipping to take all the notes on but when when
Lillard says the jury's still out on this kid that literally is what like I

(01:46:37):
mean not literally but that is one of the main focuses of the movie is who is
Paladino going to be by the end of this movie yeah really that like because he
he is having a full moral he is having a full moral crisis of what he knows to be
the right thing to do versus literally every single one of his problems

(01:47:01):
vanishing in thin air all at once like I said already like Jones face says that
he knows and Reynolds divorce really informs this character which the
unbelievable misery that he is in through this whole movie you absolutely
feel it yep there's no way around that the guilt over the ticket prompts the

(01:47:22):
card Paladino gifts him a baseball card for his daughter granddaughter and the
guilt of stealing the lottery ticket is what prompted him to do that exactly
yeah which is like my god what a tell you know there's a lot in this movie
like that was yes James Earl Jones is talking about his granddaughters and how
one of his granddaughters is a huge Derek Jeter fan and as it happens

(01:47:44):
Paladino's goddess signed Derek Jeter baseball card and he just gives it to
Avery says no no I want you to have it give it to your granddaughter no no no
it and his friends are just like fuck you doing man you love that card you
just met this dude what are you smoking and he's like guys yeah they're all
like you don't you don't you have done anything like this for my kid right

(01:48:05):
exactly yeah and so it's like yeah he clearly like he's feels so guilty about
the fact he's planning on ripping this dude off to the tune of six million he
just wants to give him the fucking baseball card to make himself feel a
little bit better and James Earl Jones knows man he's looking at him like why
thank you young man oh I got you oh yeah he has some dialogue in here that is

(01:48:30):
absolutely perfect yeah but this is the moment that when Robert Forrester shows
up I actually know before that he talks like the talking about I love you and
Jones speaking about how the truth being the only way to go it's kind of ironic
this literally one of those double lines that I was just talking about right and
then the cop shows up and then Jones disappears and goes into the tub which

(01:48:54):
come the end of the movie we actually do find out why the guy's a criminal yeah
like like we don't know how far we don't know what he is we just know I kind of
assumed that he was the brother-in-law
see I thought that too but if he was the brother-in-law then why did the real

(01:49:14):
Avery ever show up in the for why would he ever bother telling the real Avery
that the wallet was there in the first place it's a good question so I just
don't know how this guy just don't know how this character got in the movie
that's the thing like that's the mystery and I well and I think I mean if we want
to jump ahead I think Reynolds is on to something where this guy he's been
buying the same lottery ticket you know across the street from his church for

(01:49:37):
the last ten years he's like they're probably that whole neighborhood knows
about it they're probably getting ready to throw a celebration right old
character is probably right about that this is probably some neighbor of his oh
I saw them when he saw the numbers was like oh shit Avery just won and somehow
he heard the message from the brother-in-law before Avery did and when

(01:49:59):
hey you know what back at back at this point answering machine still did like
when you left the message they played out loud that is true I actually forgot
about that so he might so he might be like a brother-in-law's neighbor or some
shit like that roommate or something like that and so he heard the the message
and was like I am on this like I'm getting that money that is ooh that is

(01:50:21):
yeah I can see that but Forrester and Jones having the the New York's finest
versus New York's bravest oh yeah very very oh that was a high-tension scene
and the thing that I was like when I was watching it what I was what I thought I

(01:50:42):
was watching was a black man who was very much alive during the civil rights
movement standing there face to face with a white cop who was very much alive
during the civil rights movement see I that's what I thought I was looking at
was the fear in James Earl Jones wondering how it was gonna go but what
it really was was a frickin con man sitting there literally hoping not to

(01:51:06):
get busted by a cop this movie might might have been a little bit of both
honestly and I would agree with that I could very easily see that finds out
that Jones is well Avery is a hero and was mr. fire safety which really makes me
wonder about Mihawk because he said he recognized him and then he recognized

(01:51:29):
him as this like are we are we gonna are we gonna go with the line that Mihawk
just things all black people look alike because that's kind of I don't really
know how to justify that outside of that well I mean okay for that matter he
never did say you look familiar he always only said your name sound
familiar I'm gonna need to go back and double-check that okay I'm pretty sure

(01:51:54):
I'm pretty sure he never did say you look familiar I think it was when he
said you know I'm Avery so-and-so that it was always like why does that name
sound familiar like I feel like he always only said the name was familiar I
mean that that could be that could be I mean he I mean and Mihawk's character was
a kid when he saw him so right I mean not every skinny person looks the same

(01:52:15):
when they get fat that's true no yep and James O Jones I mean that's not a
toothpick man no so yeah I can kind of see that the cuz other cuz otherwise it
would be it's a long walk to try to reason with why he would recognize him
and then he turns out to not be Avery that's that's asking too much yeah yeah

(01:52:36):
that was that was kind of asking a lot the I loved it when Reynolds
delightfully gets to sneak into Coop's seat because that like Reynolds wanted
to sit there at the beginning of the game but I know that's a seat which we
find out from a photo that was placed on shelf later on in the film the director

(01:52:59):
Jeff Probst the host of Survivor is the character coupe okay and we only see it
in that photo so that's that there's your director cameo for this film I
don't know if there was nice and owning not owning Seymour owning Mahoney now I
got suddenly Seymour stuck in my head and now it's gonna be in my head for the

(01:53:21):
next week thank you're welcome Jones calls out that he's got a ticket oh whoa
sorry so sorry so he claims that he doesn't that he forgot to get a ticket
even though he has the winning lottery ticket in his pocket and then Jones
calls him out about where the ticket is where he's got everything like that and
that man that is where you start taking a the Avery character as a serious

(01:53:46):
threat to Paladino absolutely yeah like that was that was for me my shit that's
what I was like that there are there like up to this point there's this whole
like is he is hinty is that I mean is there you know plausible deniability on
all the weird shit he's doing at that point that that's when you go like oh
no there's something up with this guy there is way more to him than meets the

(01:54:08):
eye because he just he just played the room perfectly you know and and took
control of the whole situation but he he had I still don't know why and I wanted
to and I wrote this next I wanted to have a discussion with you about it
Jones makes a point about trust and how all the guys in that room if they do

(01:54:30):
this and then they find out never mind I got my answer Jones at this point in the
story doesn't want anybody but the two of them to know that they have the
winning lottery ticket so he can't speak up and have them discover that he has
the winning lottery ticket because exactly mmm never mind he knew this
thing's play writing is locked he needs he needs them all to remain in the dark

(01:54:54):
to play the game so that he can walk away with the ticket without any of them
causing trouble yeah I got it that's this story is locked the writing he's
yeah mmm this is what this is one of those you can't drop a single line of
dialogue you can't you can't like if you take it to a studio executive
executive and they want to change some things you can't otherwise you would

(01:55:14):
have run this is this is too this is too tightly inter interwoven into itself and
it's fast for that matter that's the thing is like you really got to pay
attention like fucking thank God I got I had subtitles on because I would have
missed so much if I didn't have subtitles on this movie agreed and even
with the subtitles on I still know I missed things yeah right there with you

(01:55:37):
this this was an incredible delivery from Jones when Paladino says you know
I don't know my problem is tonight and Jones goes I do you're scared and you
ought to be because what you're doing it's risky like he like everybody at the
table can easily interpret that as getting engaged right and we the

(01:56:01):
audience and Paladino know what he's really talking about yeah whoa just the
oh the dialogue and the delivery and everything and this was mmm but then I
like the Reynolds saying why do you call me which doctor and here's but like why
you call me which doctor and he's like I guess we're all coming clean and this

(01:56:22):
was my know like it the story makes sense they made the story make sense all
the way through good mm-hmm I was just gonna say like when you talk about lines
of dialogue like I was saying this is like a play it's like I didn't go far
enough this isn't just like a play it's like a fucking David Mamet play like
that's how that's how tight and and precise the dialogue is in this in this

(01:56:46):
show in this movie it is like some of the best plays you know it's it's it's
pretty it's high-tier I mean I don't know I don't know what else to give you
on that me Hawk successfully tricking Reynolds into thinking there's a cat
piss smell to get him out of the game yeah that the friend stuff and just a

(01:57:07):
great little like small little additions like that to this to the script it added
the friendship it added the realism of the friendship added the real and it
also goes to show like how long these guys have been at this whole like
gambling thing because from when Lillard says new rule because he's pissed

(01:57:28):
because they haven't been able to play because people keep getting up from the
table and doing shit he just wants to play cards and everybody keeps leaving
the table and so as soon as he gets the chance to deal he's like new rule
anybody who plays and anybody who get leaves the table is out it takes him all
of five seconds to think up that cat piss trick to get people away from the

(01:57:48):
table so that means these guys have been playing games like this with each other
for decades yep but then surely I mean so he tricks
Reynolds into leaving and then like me Hawk loses immediately so he's out and
goes to join him for some peeping Tom moments at the window where okay sure it
seems like they get busted and that was your only Ryan Reynolds being himself

(01:58:12):
moment yes yep that was like when they were at the window I saw a little bit of
Deadpool right there that was that moment tries to get Jones to take the
tickets and then just like here just take him you win and Lillard goes
absolutely nuts and me Hawk becomes the arbiter my question to you is when do you

(01:58:34):
think me Hawk figured it out the way he left he knew yeah and he wanted out he
wanted nothing to do with it yeah that is a really good see here's the thing
because when he became the arbiter that's when I think he did well and it

(01:58:54):
would and it would suggest if that was the case that would be the first time
because they they've been thrown they throw their their their tickets into the
the the ante pot and they've been playing this whole time this is the
first time he's had a good look at all the tickets
so he would also have to have been lying about not looking up the numbers to know

(01:59:15):
that one of them is a winning ticket mm-hmm and go and and immediately realize
how deep in the shit they all are and he's like he can still play and and I'm
gonna get myself out of this as quickly as possible because I am now I am now
acutely aware of the powder keg I am sitting on top of yeah so I would I would

(01:59:38):
I would say Lillard is probably the only one in that place that is actually
telling the truth about not knowing the numbers I'd agree with that no like
Lillard like all the way through Lillard was pretty much intact and I even think
that his decisions at the end of the movie were to save his friends yeah
probably true yeah like I don't think he like I think his character is kind of

(02:00:02):
intact for the whole movie and kind of the only one yeah maybe
Mihawk ish he did kind of he did kind of bail the thing is he bailed bail that's
that that no no that's the thing is like knowing how volatile that situation the
fact that he chose to bail instead of make sure everybody gets out of there

(02:00:24):
alive
sometimes you got to wash your hands and realize you have no dog in that fight I
guess that's true that is a very good point I mean the dude was married and he
had kids he was the only one who was actually kind of wait no no no no no no
no he didn't have kids he didn't have we just we gotta get bringing to that up

(02:00:44):
yeah he had a whole monologue about how he's he's been trying to have kids and
can't there you go see he was trying to get his life started but he didn't have
his life screwed up yet so him leading there was honestly kind of okay knowing
there were six million dollars on the table I'm not saying I would have left
but you can see where he you can see where he was coming from right yeah yeah

(02:01:08):
but this is this is quite possibly my favorite moment of this movie and just
how wildly unexpectedly beautiful it was Lillard doing a little eerie score on
that comb hmm yeah like playing that score that was just eerie music and they

(02:01:29):
cut the score from the film while he was doing that and he like his very last
note they kicked the score back in that was wildly beautiful it was pretty cool
yep I you I don't even know where do you come up with that was that just

(02:01:50):
happening on set or is that a skill that Lord had like what holy crap I mean
hard to say you know you know how these Hollywood types are they've got all
sorts of weird little skills on their resumes you know it's like you know and
I'm really good at coin tricks I mean remember we were when we did the
illusionist we were sitting there going like weirdly it seems like of all people

(02:02:14):
in the world freakin Edward Norton is good at is good at close-up magic for
some reason they did have they did have people that taught them like on set they
were teaching them they did spend a few months actually learning that I mean
that's kind of one of the most amazing I don't know if it's one of them
personally I think it's one of the most amazing aspects of being an actor being

(02:02:37):
put in a situation where you are supposed to learn all goofy manner of
skills be educated in things that you would never have any just justification
for learning in the real world like yeah being in the entertainment industry you
are you are put in positions to learn some pretty like goofy and awesome
things and make use of skills that you just wouldn't anywhere else yeah I

(02:02:59):
remember when I was in high school when I was when I went to get my senior
portraits done to get you know the big you know expensive ones that they you
know and go to a photo studio and the lady who was was taking my picture she
was telling us about how when they were filming what was it mr. Holland's opus

(02:03:21):
the Richard Dreyfus movie that was filmed in Portland and she was talking
about how the lady who plays Richard Dreyfus his wife because she's supposed
to be a photographer she was hanging out with the with my photographer for like
three days to just watch her work to just learn how to pretend to be a
photographer and I'm like that's that's truly the coolest job in the world like

(02:03:46):
like like I like I already knew I wanted to be this is my senior year in high
school I already knew I wanted to be an actor but I was just like that just
confirms it I get to I would I get to being an actor means you get to be
everything you know and it's like that is one like I said that's yeah like the
biggest draws of being able to do that I mean other than being a martial artist
and competing in competitions what justification do I have for any of the

(02:04:09):
classes that I have ever taken set aside from self-defense but I've never used it
for self-defense right yeah no it's it's a skill that I practice I learned honed
and still practice well I'm not really much in the entertainment industry
anymore but I mean once you have skills like don't lose them you know and I

(02:04:32):
wouldn't say that you're a hundred percent retired you're just taking a
break right now we'll see if I can find my way back on set
Mihawk has a moment about having trouble with getting pregnant while
paladino gets set up to cheat like when he's off in the bathroom and all that
that moment where he like on like oh my god oh which yeah let's talk about the

(02:04:58):
running motif of his bloody finger like oh everywhere yeah that was brilliant I
mean like though yes yeah so it's like when he you know when they we have the
moment where Avery shows up at the door and that surprises Paladino enough that
he cuts his finger while he's like cutting lemons or something like that

(02:05:19):
no he's trying to open a wine bottle with a dart right that's right yeah and
then he runs it across his finger and gashes it pretty badly and for the
whole movie he does not dress this wound properly he's basically open bleeding
the whole time and just sort of holding a napkin to it and net like that's and

(02:05:40):
it's just kind of one of those signs of how tense he is because he's trying to
figure out how to get this lot the six million dollar lottery ticket and never
really paying attention to the fact that he's bleeding everywhere he's just
barely keeping the blood under control with the napkin he's holding and
meanwhile while that's going on he's leaving blood marks on everything he

(02:06:00):
touches and it shows up on like the close-ups of the cards and everything
like it was really yeah it was kind of good for for like a weirdly like random
inclusion it was pretty dope like like I really liked that I I'm not gonna argue
so Paladino comes out of the bathroom and then he gets back into the card game

(02:06:22):
and he cheats and his work or his cheat works even when there's two ace of
diamonds on the table like the way yeah the way that he pulled it off my game I
give him I'll give you some good credit on that even though I would never have
allowed that if you're playing a poker game with me you know I would I would
have wanted to see the yeah like show you like put the cards on the table bitch

(02:06:44):
yeah and that's and yeah of course and it's kind of one of those and it
becomes one of those things real quick where we're pretty sure that Jones has it
figured out but he's not calling it out because he's like nope he can't call it
out game yeah he's like part of this game we you know that where this is the
game you and I are playing okay round he has to be you know sympathetic one and
everybody's eyes in case something goes wrong because something does go wrong

(02:07:07):
and because he is the sympathetic one in a couple of their eyes yeah wins but we
don't realize till later is that Ryan Reynolds also noticed well that's a
thing so Jones tells the story of how he goes and gets his ticket with the same
numbers every week and the delivery the performance that he has in that little

(02:07:28):
story was incredible and then we get Francis Bay the little old lady that was
across the hall she comes by and brings up if she think or they think they'll
check the basement right and the cops are the cops are searching the building
for a fugitive right this scene introduced anxiety this was done so well

(02:07:50):
the overlaying conversations the cutting to different things happening all of
that how Paladino snapped I felt like I was about to right like they they shot
the anxiety inducing scene perfectly like oh my god and then yeah like

(02:08:12):
Paladino snaps and you got to give Francis Bay so much credit for how scared
she was I felt how scared she was Paladino went to her it's like I would
never hurt you I need you to know that okay like he was being really freaking
intimidating yeah like and Francis Bay she's still going to yeah like she was

(02:08:39):
just in an episode of Superstore if you don't know who I'm talking about with
Francis Bay she's in this scene when Superstore where she has this guy's
like I'm just gonna do something nice for this lady I feel like doing something
nice today he's like man would you like to come to the front of the line and
then black person in and the line is like well how come she gets to go and

(02:09:01):
she turns around goes cuz white people help one or help their own and it's
like oh and the guy's like oh god I helped wrong old lady no this woman like
she she is so committed and she goes there every single time and she sticks
the landing every time like if you are familiar with that viral clip that is I

(02:09:23):
have not seen that no that that's amazing I'll send that to you it's a
funny one but the pan across their faces when Francis
leaves the room and they go back and the look across all their faces and the
gravity of the situation that was one powerful last shot yeah because like

(02:09:43):
they've been knowing he's been acting weird the whole night and they've been
writing it all off as he's just nervous about asking his girl to marry him but
that was way beyond the pale that was something beyond yeah that was yeah so
they're there that's when they're realizing like you know something is up
you know and they're all and none of them want to ask well no that was the

(02:10:06):
thing but a couple of them already had keyed in and they already knew what was
going on right so and they couldn't bring anything up like that how trapped
everybody except Lillard was by this moment in the film incredible and
Lillard's just disappointed in his buddy yeah like it was a that was a really

(02:10:28):
incredible scene or moment and then Forrester shows back up telling them
that they can all leave and Mihawk leaves like in his like depression and
sadness over watching all of his friends like descend into madness and all of
this crap he gets sad and he leaves that CD that he burnt for the couple and he
just saunters off yeah that was and that was his goodbye for the film yep but

(02:10:57):
do you want to go into Ryan Reynolds snapping that was amazing like it was
like like it has been a long long time since seen in a turnaround moment in a
movie truly shocks me like now we're not just talking like an out-of-left-field

(02:11:21):
kind of moment we're like like yeah I don't even know how to describe how like
I really did not see it coming really so perfectly executed that I'm just all of
a sudden like oh the stakes have gone so high so Mihawk you know they've
finished the game they basically you know declared all right you know he gets

(02:11:46):
the the tickets and Mihawk leaves and Palladino even feels kind of guilty he
feels guilty so he goes to Avery's jacket and sticks the baseball card in
his pocket and is about to stick the winning lottery ticket in his pocket as
well but before he does out of fucking nowhere Ryan Reynolds smashes a bottle

(02:12:14):
across James Earl Jones's head like and when I talk about the importance of
using practical effects mm-hmm this is the importance yeah the way that bottle
shattered like million pieces the way the glow and and the look on and and good

(02:12:41):
on James Earl Jones you know like even though I'm sure it was probably the eighth
take that they got it on he still looked utterly surprised oh my god no the
delivery on everything everything Reynolds madness Jones getting smashed
in the head Palladino's reaction and Lillard absolutely not knowing what the

(02:13:03):
hell is going on right yeah he is like I mean every single actor in this scene
deserved an Oscar in this movie like I did not bother to look up how many
awards at one but it has to have raked him in during this time where James Earl
Jones bleeding on the floor and Ryan Reynolds is freaking out and Matthew

(02:13:26):
Lillard is freaking out and yeah see here's and here's and I think Ryan
Reynolds happened into being able to do that one because what James Earl Jones
granddaughter's birthday is is Ryan Reynolds real birthday so when he's
going into that speech about no no you guys didn't catch it you didn't catch

(02:13:46):
that story check the date check the deck like all these numbers I did though I
figured it out and like when I saw the trivia and I saw that it was because it
was his birthday I was like okay I kind of love this even more now that was
that was good but in this moment Carly Hope as Carlo returns and gives her

(02:14:09):
speech about breaking essentially breaking up and how like right like
they're out of time and all this and that is wildly heartbreaking and oh I
mean what a scene nobody could say anything yeah no that was an incredible

(02:14:30):
scene and he can't and he can't tell her just hold on a minute or nothing
because it's like yeah because he's got he's got a situation up here that she
cannot walk into period no he absolutely has to protect her from being an
accomplice absolutely 100% yeah and then this is the moment where Ryan Reynolds
tells Lillard that Paladino was cheating mm-hmm calls him out on that I thought

(02:14:56):
Lillard like I literally thought Lillard was gonna go full scream like I was
waiting for it and what's amazing is I've seen this movie before and I was
so caught up in the performances that I forgot that I already knew the end oh
yeah yeah okay the fact that this movie was able to pull that off I Wow

(02:15:23):
there's that moment where I wasn't like and I said like I thought Lillard was
gonna go full scream because he has that moment where he seems like he might go
good and then he looks at Avery and he says you're a problem and I was like oh
he ain't going good yeah no he's full-on thinking like yeah this is like we just

(02:15:45):
we just attacked a dude there's no getting out of this like we've already
crossed the point of no return here so in his mind he's thinking like now it's
damage control and unfortunately the damage control means you like yeah he's
not happy he's not happy about it he's not even like he's kind of you know
thinking about the money but not entirely he's thinking I still think

(02:16:06):
Lillard was more worried about his buddies probably yeah I think I think
like that was probably just kind of more of like an icing on the cake kind of
thing like I'll get over it thanks to the money that's that was that was where
I was taking that yeah and then Avery won't take the ticket from Paladino even
though he's really trying to give it to him because Avery knows exactly how
dangerous the situation is because of Ryan Reynolds not necessarily the other

(02:16:30):
two but Reynolds right he's yeah Reynolds is clearly on edge desperate
he's already proven to be extreme in this like and he's only furthering it
he's he's sitting like after he already attacked him once and he's saying like
like I'm tired of living this life I need to get out of here I this is this

(02:16:51):
is it this is the answer to everything and you're gonna you know we're just
gonna let it walk out the door you know and and then so and then the cop shows
back up Paladino tries to confess to the cop and then the cop takes the ticket
kind of insinuating that he's going to lose it right he's gonna lose the
paperwork and steal it and everybody leaves and Lillard is in full beliefs

(02:17:14):
just like and I love this I really love this this made Matthew Lillard's
character perfect like congratulations you just got a code
you couldn't have done it tomorrow right yeah no I love it it was perfect to me
pulls out that phone gives it to him tells him to call her that was your

(02:17:39):
friend and
he did pull a fast one like that everybody wanted him to and then he
gives it to gives the winning lottery ticket to Avery and Jones celebration
gave me so much life yeah it was it was it was high giggly joy you know like

(02:18:02):
yeah so happy to see him so happy in that in that moment yes so the two way
the two thoughts that I had about the actual end of this movie
was I kind of think that Lillard and Reynolds were waiting for Avery on the
outside they didn't he didn't actually get out of the building I don't think so

(02:18:29):
Reynolds left too easy okay no I don't think the psycho stopped there I mean it
depends on how on how well he believes the switcheroo that the winning ticket
was now with the cop it day so it would depend on how on whether I'm sorry I'm
sorry I like I thought they went to go take down the cop oh that if okay left

(02:18:55):
pretty fast going they left really fast after the cop left that would be that
would be funny that would be so funny that would be I would be a great deleted
scene or like after credits scene I mean it made a lot of sense to me but then
this is where we find out the true twist of the movie Jones leaves with the

(02:19:20):
winning lottery ticket that the whole movie was about and then the real Avery
shows up in his bus uniform with his badge showing us that it is really him
yeah we have no idea who the who James Earl Jones actually was playing no yeah
not the faintest idea like he he knew he had he had it all he knew exactly what

(02:19:44):
that who Victor was the guy he called he knew all of he knew what the winning
lottery numbers were so he knew how to recognize where the winning ticket was
he knew Avery's whole story the fact that he was a former firefighter and now
a bus driver like this was so he was very very very well informed yeah we

(02:20:04):
just don't know who he was and this the end of this movie was perfect yeah oh my
god perfect all there was so much of this movie that was perfect now final
thoughts on finders keepers or wait a minute finders fee
final thoughts yeah no I a fantastic piece of artwork like I said it's like

(02:20:28):
it's one of those top-tier Broadway plays made into a film right in line with
when Gary Glen Ross and the like like I'm not sure how I how to like talk about it
in words of like where it it belongs in today's like culture other than the fact
that it is it is a rarely seen performance piece it is a small budget

(02:20:52):
it is a single set it is a very tight cast of characters it is a very tight
script it's a it's a form of filmmaking that we are seeing less and less of
every year because our own studios have decided to do things and so I think this
would be must see in just in the very nature of it is very nearly a lost art

(02:21:17):
form and is one of the better examples of it that I've seen in a long time all
right movie fight so for the movie fight on this one round one who did like which
film made us care more about the characters oh well that's got to be
finders fee unfortunately I I was struggling with it because they did such

(02:21:37):
a good job but I think if they would have actually delivered on the
relationship aspect of owning Mahoney I think that that would have that might
have that might have made it more of a contender but yeah because you like
perfect film it was a perfect film but yeah we didn't like we were we were
watching a train wreck that had already wrecked you know and and yeah because we

(02:22:02):
only saw the bad sides of the relationship between Philip Seymour
Hoffman and many driver we didn't we weren't given the opportunity to feel
invested in their relationship beyond the you know the obvious dude you're
clearly screwing a good thing up you know what's the thing like in owning
Mahoney you saw that a bunch of people were getting fucked over but you never

(02:22:25):
were giving them given a reason to actually care about any of the people
being screwed over right exactly yep and finders fee you just cared about
everybody every yeah you're you're invested in like we get backstory we get
history we get relationships we get everything we like like these guys as
whole lives is accumulating into this night this crazy night that they all go

(02:22:49):
through together so yeah you they're right out right out of the bat there
like yeah there's way more caring about the characters in finders fee than there
is in in only one honey yeah all right so round two the technical win
that's a tough one that is a really tough one because that is a oh man

(02:23:11):
because I'd said like neither well no I was gonna say neither one took a lot of
risks but no that's not true I say finders fee like finders fee took a lot
of risks and for as low budget as they were they did really really well with

(02:23:31):
that budget like there was no point in this movie where I was like oh that's
too bad well you know they probably didn't have the money to fix it I did
not have a single moment in no the total budget for finders fee was one million
dollars but the total budget for owning Mahoney was only ten million dollars
so that's so that's not a lot of money for a for every year yeah especially

(02:23:53):
considering all the locations we saw in this you know yeah so that's nothing to
really sneeze at there either I might call this one a draw because they both
did really really well for what they had and they feel like they both pulled off
exactly what they wanted to do you know where that's true because it is a movie

(02:24:17):
fight I gotta fight a little bit the relationship between Hoffman and driver
was a dip for the movie there was no dip for finders
fee see I'm not sure if I agree it was a dip because even though their characters

(02:24:40):
their interactions every one of their interactions raised the stakes a little
bit for Mahoney because of how much he was continuing to fuck up his
relationship but it caused me to ask questions that I was never going to get
the answers to okay is that really a technical thing or is that just back on
the the writing question of our characters and in round one well mmm

(02:25:03):
that is yeah that does kind of revert back to round one there was like if I
were to the little the little things that I have against owning Mahoney is
stuff like why was there a tracking shot on that armored vehicle right that's a
good point we didn't really get it seemed to be setting something up that

(02:25:25):
wasn't to set up for anything you're right why the heavy feature on Niagara
Falls like it's a beautiful shot and I think that's why probably true but I
don't think if I there was not a wasted word and if I were to give if I were to
guess I would say there was probably a tax break from the Canada Film Institute

(02:25:48):
if I featured by featuring a Canadian tourist attraction okay my first guess
yeah that that makes a lot of sense but if I were to really like to find to find
the one minute thing to tip the scales I would say that in that scene that I was

(02:26:10):
talking about before in finders fee when Palladino is waiting for James Earl
Jones to come up the stairs that one scene hit me so goddamn hard that
scene there aren't any scenes that do that when Francis May came over and then
Palladino snaps at her mm-hmm when Reynolds bashes Jones across the head

(02:26:32):
right so as technically perfect as Mahoney was there were no scenes like
that that really hit me to that level the risks yeah yeah so yeah I guess I'm
gonna have to give it to finders fee on that one as well it doesn't it feels
dirty putting I feel I feel like finders fee might be the season two winner really

(02:27:00):
really that you're calling that we're only on episode two you know I know
we're only on episode two but if finders fee would have been in season one you
think it would have gone all the way I I'm not a hundred percent sure that it
wouldn't have that's why I'm kind of I'm kind of feeling bad about like putting
up owning Mahoney against it because I don't feel like I'm gonna be able to

(02:27:21):
like really give owning Mahoney the love that it truly deserves but when we talk
about financial crime films is it one of the best it's it's amazing yeah and I can
only think of like two others that come to mind I'm actually having trouble
thinking there I guess you got you got like the big short the big short there

(02:27:45):
was also a rogue traitor with with Ewan McGregor that one was pretty good I mean
I like I think you got like I mean you got the classic Wall Street yep there you
go Wall Street limitless kind of plays into that it kind of that's okay yeah
sure there's yeah you can say that movies about like four things yeah I

(02:28:07):
think of those of those we just listed off I would put owning Mahoney at the top
of all those personally I don't know about against the big short but the other
two yeah definitely actually you're right the big short would be a pretty heavy
contender there you're right I forgot about that one yeah and that one took and
that one took a lot of risks but I do but I really do I want to tell everybody

(02:28:32):
to go see owning Mahoney because I but I also feel like I have to tell people to
go watch finding finders fee yeah I see this is why this is why I'm against
doing the movie fights because I don't feel it I don't feel it that it's a fair
way to to measure the the art form here hmm I'm gonna disagree because we did

(02:28:58):
spend over an hour and a half talking about owning Mahoney mm-hmm almost as
long as the film yeah so I mean we did give it all the respect that it does
deserve and we have not been knocking it no it's just standing next to finders
fee and where yes owning Mahoney you have three incredible actors with a

(02:29:23):
host of good actors right finders fee you have seven incredible actors yeah
and they are all nailing it and it's just I mean here what could we call this
one a draw and and even because because we were even talking about before about
how just by mere coincidence we had two gambling movies here what if we basically

(02:29:47):
go these two movies together make a really great double feature hmm I'm
willing to I'm willing I'm definitely going to say that because you and I both
watched them as double features and yep it was an incredible journey for both of
us separately and see here's the thing I want to give owning Mahoney the love but

(02:30:10):
I do want to actually say finders fee is the better movie so when I am going with
the recommendation I'm going to recommend both pretty much I like I feel
like I want to give owning Mahoney like a hardcore honorable mention because

(02:30:30):
finders fee is just you know what hmm I have an idea I have an idea work what you
got all right so if we're talking in terms of movie fight here all right we
can go ahead because we are kind of two-for-two here saying it's gonna be
finders fee all right we want to make sure that owning Mahoney gets love so
what if as you say like an a form of honorable mention what if we say we we

(02:30:55):
we assigned a number like let's say the number four okay it's not a random the
number four you going with this stay with me here okay so when we come to our
season finale movie fight night we roll a die and if the die comes up for then

(02:31:16):
owning Mahoney is up against that movie instead of something else let's
workshop let's workshop that and figure out how that can go yeah there you go
like oh an alternate yes exactly our first alternate because we did have we
were we were on odds last season we had to we had to pick an alternate in the
semifinals so we can just say we can just go ahead and assign we can just

(02:31:38):
guarantee owning Mahoney makes it past the preliminaries exactly yes I'm cool
with that I am I am I'm totally cool with that that does make all the sense
because it's gonna be hard for us to if finders fee doesn't make it out of the
preliminary rounds for this season's tournament I'm going to lose my mind

(02:32:00):
whatever it goes up against has got to be the most incredible movie but
fair enough so the winner is finders fee yep all right and with a profoundly
honorable mention to go on a huge like seriously like seriously that's that's

(02:32:21):
what we're saying here is that you should see both of these movies not just
see both these movies you should see both of these movies together this
should be a double feature night yeah absolutely we were talking to another
writer that we're working with on another project just before the show and
we recommended that she and her guy sit down and watch both of these movies
incredible all right so what do you got for me for next week for next week I am

(02:32:47):
gonna go in a very different direction I've decided that this time I'm gonna
be the one to present the goofy comedy awesome what do you got for me it's called the
wrong guy what's it about sorry it is a well it's I want to say 2001 I don't

(02:33:12):
remember for sure late 90s early 2000s okay and it stars Dave it's Dave Foley
and Jennifer Tilly and it is about a guy who's basically a everyday office worker
whose boss ends up murdered and he goes on the run because he you know as this

(02:33:33):
as a you know prospect he he discovers the body and goes on the run so they
know because he's afraid he's gonna be busted for the murder and no one's
actually looking for him they know he didn't do it they have security cameras
of him getting killed and so he's basically on the run for nothing it is
it is all right bunker it is a bonkers movie and it's it's hilarious and I loved

(02:33:56):
it and I think you're gonna like it too all right well because it is the wrong
guy the wrong guy yeah because it is October and granted we did not start
appropriately I'm gonna give you stir of echoes for next week whoo okay I have

(02:34:16):
seen stir of echoes but which is why I know it's a it's a little bit because I
know you're not a big horror movie guy so showing like having you rewatch one
you've seen before figure that's kind of a safe bet yeah and that'll keep us in
tune with the October theme all right all right so next week is going to be
the wrong guy and stir of echoes thanks for tuning in with us and if you're

(02:34:40):
what if you're listening on the podcast just remember that we are live every
Thursday 7 p.m. Mountain Time and you're more than welcome to join us and if you
have a suggestion drop it in the comments we should probably tell them
that we're live on YouTube and twitch yeah we are yeah all right we'll see you
guys next week adios

All Episodes

H.Y.S.T? | S2E2 | Owning Mahowny & Finder's Fee

Episode Transcript

Popular Podcasts

NFL Daily with Gregg Rosenthal

On Purpose with Jay Shetty

Dateline NBC

.css-15opob5{left:0;position:absolute;top:0.8rem;} All Episodes

.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}H.Y.S.T? | S2E2 | Owning Mahowny & Finder's Fee