Episode 10: Serra's Journey of Strength, Support, and Survival

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
I can't even imagine.

(00:06):
Have you heard those words and thought to yourself, neither can I?
But it happened.
You lived it.
But most importantly, you survived it.
We hear you, we see you, and we're here to talk about it.
We're two moms, lifelong best friends, and we've both experienced traumatic life-altering
events involving our children.
Welcome to Episode 10 of I Can't Even Imagine.

(00:32):
I'm Stephanie.
And I'm Victoria.
And today we are celebrating a little milestone.
It is Episode 10.
Yay, our 10th one.
I'm so proud of us.
Me too.
Oh yeah, so my youngest is in an after-school club called Book Battle, and my middle daughter
was in it last year.
And they assigned two books per month, and then at the end of that month, or end of the

(00:57):
30-day period, they meet up and play a game.
And whoever earns the most points at the end of this semester or the year, I'm not sure,
I don't remember how it works, the Book Battle teacher picks 12 students to then represent
the school at the Book Battle at the official office.
And my middle daughter made it into Book Battle, the actual battle last year.

(01:20):
She's very proud of it.
She has her t-shirt, she still wears it.
And so my youngest daughter's in Book Battle this year, and she was supposed to read two
books, but then the hurricane happened.
She did read those two books, but then the meeting got canceled, and we've just been
sitting on it.
We have not even thought about Book Battle books.
I can't even believe it's been a month since the hurricane.

(01:42):
And Sunday night, like Sunday afternoon at 3 o'clock, I get a text, Can't Wait to See
Everybody at Book Battle Tomorrow.
Every mother with a child in school's worst nightmare.
I was like, oh shit, and I went to her and I said, hey, so you got Book Battle books
due tomorrow because you're after school program.
And she starts crying because that's how she rolls.

(02:04):
And I was like, hey, we can fix this.
Don't worry.
Let me look them up on the library website so you can get the audio version.
Of course, place a hold.
I went on Hoopla.
They're too new.
They don't have them on Hoopla.
So I bought them on Audible.
She's still crying.
You're like, mom's a professional procrastinator.
We've got this.

(02:25):
That's exactly what I said.
I said, listen, you're a Reigns kid.
We know how to procrastinate, and we do it well.
We thrive under pressure.
You come from this brood.
Get it together.
Shake it off.
And let's get this done.
So we downloaded them.
And she had, what, it was 3 o'clock.

(02:47):
We had to go to Target.
We got home at 5.
And I said, I'll let you go to bed late tonight.
You got 4 and 1 half hours to read.
The first book was 3 hours and 11 minutes.
And the second book was an hour and 48 minutes.
But we sped them up.
So they're like 1.5 or 1.2.
They weren't total chipmunk, but they were getting there.

(03:09):
And she was able to get almost, the first book was done, and the second book was almost
done by the time she went to bed.
And then I woke up a little bit early.
She finished the book.
And then on the way to school, I asked Chad, I need 10 multiple choice questions for each
book.
And I tested her on the books on the way to school.
That part, I think, was genius.
Oh, yeah.

(03:30):
That was genius.
Oh, yeah.
How did she do?
I picked her up.
And she, I said, how'd it go?
Did you like crush it and like knock everybody out with your knowledge?
She's like, no.
I didn't know anything.
Oh, no.
I thought she was going to crush it.
Because she just read them, right?

(03:51):
Fresh in her mind.
Nope.
So I think we came to the conclusion that if she's going to do audio, which makes it
a lot faster, she needs the physical book too to follow along.
Because she was doing like a lot of art on her iPad while she's listening.
Yeah, I kind of, maybe tuning it out a bit.
That's exactly what happened.
She was tuning it out.
And we caught Chad in a lie.
Uh-oh.

(04:12):
Yep.
Chad said something about what does the girl draw most in her comics?
What animal?
And it was cat, bird, dog or bunny.
And there's a dog on the cover.
And she's like, well, she said, I think it's a bunny.
I was like, well, wrong.
Chad says it's a cat.
She's like, they don't think so.

(04:32):
And so I'm like, well, let's ask.
And I said, hey, Chad, I need you to clarify question number six and tell me what the answer
is because it's not a cat.
And he's like, oh, sorry about that.
I'm just for catching it.
It's a bunny.
What the hell, Chad?
It's what I said, Chad.
What the fuck?
What else are you lying about?
I know.
That's what I was wondering.
I'm like, did I give her all this wrong information and then quizzed her and then sent her into

(04:54):
school.
Good luck, champ.
And then she fails the quizzes or like the battle between the little kids in class.
I am going to remember this little trick for if this ever happens to me though with my
kids.
That's a good idea.
Put that in your little back pocket.
Yeah, because I mean, you can always just double down and say, hey, double check those
answers before you give them to your kids.

(05:17):
Yeah.
Chad's useful sometimes.
Yeah, it's a tool.
Yeah.
You don't rely on it.
God no.
Shut up.
All right.
So how was your skin doctor appointment?
Tell us about that.
Oh, yeah.
Oh, God.
I had a dermatology appointment this morning, my very first ever.

(05:37):
39 years old.
I've never had a full body check.
Neither have you.
Didn't feel so alone.
In fact, I felt seen by you.
Because I've never had.
Yeah, because everybody else like what?
No, I have been.
I haven't had full body check, but I've been to a dermatologist for that thing on my neck
that developed in pregnancy.
Pregnancy does really weird things.

(05:58):
Sure does.
Yeah, I had that removed next pregnancy.
It came back.
So I just left it there.
They said it was benign anyway.
They said it was a benign vascular cyst.
So it's like it just looks like a little like red mole.
Right.
It's just a little bubble that's filled with blood.
I thought it was like a when I first saw it, I thought it was like a blood blister.
And I was like, I remember pinching myself there.

(06:19):
Like what the hell is that?
It's kind of your collar bones.
It's a really weird spot.
And like an idiot, I tried to pop it and it would not stop bleeding.
It was like as if I had sliced myself.
It was just dripping down my neck with blood and this little tiny little thing.
And I'm like, yeah, that's not normal.
And then every time it would, if I did that again, I did it a few times thinking somehow

(06:40):
I was going to get rid of it.
I don't know what my thought process was there.
Not very smart, clearly.
And every time I would pop it or scratch at it or whatever and it open, it would bleed.
Every time it would heal, it got bigger and it got to a point where it was like the size
of like a like a, it was like a fat dime.
It was like this big and it like stuck out.
It was huge.

(07:01):
Yeah.
And I just kept it covered with the band aid because I was so embarrassed by it.
And then I got it, then I got it removed.
And then when they removed it, they said everything was fine.
It was benign not to worry about it.
But then my next pregnancy, it came back with this little tiny spot and I was like, well,
I know what that is.
I'm just going to leave it there.
Do not touch it because I'm just going to growl.
Do not touch it.
So tell me about your experience.

(07:21):
Yeah.
So I have this little like crusty spot on my cheekbone and I don't notice it until I
put any kind of foundation on and I haven't worn foundation since our photo shoot.
And that's when I really started to notice it.
And I'm like, that can't, I thought maybe at first I scratched myself or something and
it just hasn't healed up.
So it's like, it's like, it would be like cakey in that spot, like rough and we're

(07:45):
kind of like getting like.
And when Halloween, I, for my 80s costume, I, or my white trash costume, I used blush.
I mean lipstick for my blush because I don't, I don't have that dark of blush.
So I had to use lipstick and it was so dark in that spot.
Like it was like a bruise.
It was like this filled in absorbed it.

(08:05):
It did.
And it was almost like a crevice of, and it just wouldn't go away.
It took forever to get it out to ideas like a makeup wipe and really scrub it.
Yeah.
So anyways, I had my dermatology appointment this morning and he said that it was just
a, it's just aging skin.
It's just an age spot and they can get really like dry.
And he's like, it's just going to get worse over time.
It's damaged skin.

(08:26):
And he said the left side of your face is always, he's like, I get, you see a more
often on the left side of the face cause that's the face, that's the side of your driving
on.
Interesting.
I was like, that makes sense.
So anyways, he offered to freeze it and he used like a blow torch.
It was like dry ice or something.
And so now today, right now I'm sitting here.

(08:46):
I could see it underneath my eyes.
It's like I've got a big swollen lump out of my eye and it stings and it hurts.
But the full body check since you've never had one, let me walk you through the process.
Yes, please.
And you've already, from the get go, you told me you had a male doctor.
So I'm like, oh, this is going to get good.
Well, they asked me male or female.
I was like, who cares?
Right.

(09:06):
I was checking my arms like big deal.
I, I just wasn't prepared.
You know, you got naked.
No, they told you to keep your undies on.
Okay.
And they said bra is optional.
But today I'm wearing my Halloween bra, which is bright pink and it's see-through.
So you can see my nips.
And I'm like that, if it's a male doctor and I'm over here showing up in this literal

(09:27):
hot pink bra, I'm just going to go ahead and take that off.
Just looks weird and it's see-through.
What are you doing?
You know?
No.
So, um, I took my bra off and you have to wear that paper down with the slit in the
back.
So essentially he's like, oh, just start your, your back and then we'll work our way down.
Have you turn around and work your top to bottom, then your face and scalp are last.

(09:51):
That's fine.
And as you get, he's asking me about if I grew up here and when the middle of this
conversation and he's like pulling down my underwear and I'm like, oh God, okay.
That's where we're going.
He's like, okay, please spread your cheeks.
I was like, what?
Like I didn't prepare for this.

(10:11):
Like I got busy last night and like legit did not shower.
Like today I don't like work or I'm only seeing you.
I'm not doing anything fancy.
So I was doing my own funk.
There you go.
And uh, whatever.
Well, he's, he's got a, a magnifying glass.

(10:32):
Oh, and you're spreading your cheeks and my cheeks.
Oh no.
And so, okay, that was it.
Now turn around and he's checking my toes between my toes and you know, not my legs
and nothing with the badge.
Thank God.
And then he gets to my chest and he's like, okay, now lift your boobs, lift your boobs.

(10:56):
And they need to be lifted.
I get that.
That doesn't hurt any less to hear that.
Right.
Like I'm a mother with four kids that have four kids gnawing on my boobs for around nine
years total.
Of course I'm going to have to lift them, but.
And you're a big chested girl too.

(11:16):
Not just because you have breastfed.
Like your boobs still look great.
My boobs will do look rather good, but the fact is when you hear somebody say.
Okay.
So lift your boobs.
It just made me feel so old.
It's bad enough you're at a dermatology office.
With a guy on his knees.
Because you have to look under.

(11:37):
Lift your boobs.
You're in such a vulnerable position.
It was just so, and then his nurse is just kind of sitting in the corner watching and
I'm like, now there's two people staring at me lifting my boobs, spreading my crack
too with her behind me.
Oh no.
I have to imagine, I have to say to myself, most people who go to the dermatologists are
like elderly.

(11:59):
Oh yeah.
And they can't clean themselves well.
And I have to imagine that I'm not the only one that didn't shower last night.
Correct.
That's all I'm saying.
You also got people who like probably can't physically wipe themselves well and probably
have like streaks up their crack.

(12:21):
Can you imagine that?
Or being down low and examining that and getting like a whiff.
That's what I'm saying.
Gross.
So I'm probably like, they're probably like, this girl's like a nice specimen.
Yeah.
Top notch in comparison to what I'm sure they've seen.
Feel a little better about yourself.
A little bit.
Until he said lift your boobs.

(12:42):
I think lift your boobs is nearly as bad as spread your cheeks.
Oh, good.
Even everybody has cheeks.
I know.
Your boobs are awesome.
You're good.
Don't worry.
Today in the studio we are joined by Sarah.

(13:07):
Sarah is a clinical data specialist and mother of two.
And she's here to tell us the story about her heart warrior seven month old.
Welcome Sarah.
Hi, thank you.
Thank you for coming all the way into the studio today.
We love doing in person interviews.
Prefer it.
Prefer it over doing the virtual stuff.
So it's very lovely to have you here.

(13:28):
All right.
So you have a story about your beautiful seven month old.
So why don't you go ahead and just get started.
My name is Sarah.
I am a wife and mother of two.
I have a three year old and a seven month old astrid.
She is one of the one out of every hundred births that was affected by congenital heart
defects.

(13:48):
She is also one of the two out of every one thousand births that's affected by a critical
congenital heart defect.
Her heart defect is called truncus arteriosus.
So in a healthy heart the deoxygenated blood will come in from the body into the right
atrium.
Then it will go into the right ventricle through the pulmonary arteries into the lungs.

(14:12):
Then it will come back in through the pulmonary veins into the left atrium into the left ventricle
and out to the rest of the body through the aorta with oxygen rich blood.
With astrid's defect the aorta and the pulmonary arteries never separated during fetal development.
So you have a lot of mixing of oxygen rich blood and blood that doesn't have oxygen in

(14:36):
it that's going out toward the rest of the body.
This causes the heart to have to work harder and it causes over circulation in the lungs.
It can quickly lead to pulmonary hypertension, heart failure.
So it's something that has to be dealt with surgically within the first week of life.
So astrid had to have surgery when she was seven days old and we found out that we were

(15:00):
expecting this journey about halfway through my pregnancy.
Yeah, tell us about that, how this got discovered and what your reaction to that was.
So I found out really early on that I was pregnant just because I felt car sick every
time we got into the car.
I actually hadn't started getting my period back since my last pregnancy because I was

(15:23):
breastfeeding still.
That would have happened to me.
Yeah.
Yeah, one of my kids I never had gotten my period back.
I was sitting in the, every time we got into the car I would start feeling sick.
I was like, yeah, there's no way, but I decided to take a test and lo and behold, two pink
lines.
There she is.

(15:43):
So I ended up finding out really early.
I kind of had suspicions of when ovulation happened, but because of the weight list that
happened, that's been happening with OB because it's been so busy.
Lots of babies being born in our area.
I wasn't able to get in until 12 weeks.
Right.
That's pretty typical though, right?
Most of the time they don't even really want to see you until you're at least like the

(16:06):
10 to 12 week mark.
Is that right?
Eight weeks is when it's like the earliest they'll see you because that's when they really
get a good look at the heartbeat.
But 12 weeks is when we got in and everything was normal in the first ultrasound as far as
we could tell.
Now I have my own medical stuff.
I have cystic fibrosis.

(16:26):
So I'm already high risk and go to maternal fetal medicine.
I did with my first two.
So I have my first anatomy scan at 17 weeks.
Then I went in.
I actually went to that appointment by myself.
My husband wasn't able to go with me because we weren't expecting anything.

(16:48):
The blood work and all of the genetic screenings, the alpha-fetal protein test, all of that
come back normal.
Is that the one where they test for Down syndrome?
Is that the one that they?
That's the NIPT.
And that one does Down syndrome and other chromosomal anomalies including 22Q, which

(17:10):
Astrid doesn't have, but that is a diagnosis that's commonly associated with trunkes arteriosus.
I mean it's a screening, not a diagnostic test, but it was low risk.
The alpha-fetal protein is a screening for neural tube defects, so like spina bifida and
things like that.
So all of that had come back negative and we weren't expecting anything.

(17:33):
We started the ultrasound, got to look at her head, her face, her cute little profile,
and then the sonographer kind of paused over her heart.
And I kind of watched her face.
I got that feeling.
And I said, what are you seeing?
She said, no, no worries.
I'm just being quiet and make sure I get good pictures of the heart.
But I could kind of see the little fluttering.

(17:55):
I'm not a sonographer.
I don't really know what I'm looking at, but I knew something was a little bit different.
So I said, well is there a VSD?
And she looked at me and she said, do you work in the field?
I said, kind of.
Not really, but kind of.
And she said, OK, so I believe your daughter has a complex lesion on her heart.

(18:23):
I see an overriding aorta and then your ears kind of start ringing.
It starts to kind of fade out.
But she said that the doctor was going to come in, but she was thinking she saw either
transposition of the great arteries, double outlet right ventricle, or truncous arteriosus.
The doctor came in and said the same thing, said that we would be referred to fetal cardiology.

(18:48):
That's where we would get the official diagnosis.
I had to wait, I think, three weeks before the fetal cardiology appointment, which was
rough.
We went in for a fetal echo, which is a very detailed ultrasound of the baby's heart.
And that sonographer didn't say anything.
I said, can you say anything?
And she said, no.

(19:08):
You'll have to wait until you can see the doctor.
We went in and he confirmed the diagnosis of truncous arteriosus, said that we would
have to find a congenital heart program and would have to deliver at a different hospital
because we don't have those kinds of services at our local children's hospital.
Processing that was a lot.
I went through that initial period of grief where I started to wonder if I was never going

(19:34):
to be able to bring her home.
Also went straight to the Facebook groups.
The congenital heart group on Facebook and a truncous arteriosus Facebook group.
It did seem kind of mixed.
There were some really great outcomes and there were some that lost their baby pretty
early on.
So I just remember feeling like despair.

(19:58):
Was really depressed for a few weeks and I didn't want to buy anything for a while.
For the new baby.
It took a lot to even go and buy that first outfit.
You said you were about 20 weeks when you found out.
You had another little one at home to take care of.

(20:19):
Yes.
My other little one has autism spectrum disorder.
So I was already a little worried about, oh my gosh, how am I going to be away from him
for two nights?
Well, I'm in the hospital and that's just through a whole wrench and that.
I don't know how I'm going to do this.
I don't know that I am strong enough to get through this.

(20:40):
I don't know what's going to happen.
Those are all normal.
All those, we talk a lot about intrusive thoughts, especially when you get a diagnosis like
that, your mind just goes to crazy places like what if, what if, what if, what if.
Then eventually you pull up your big girl panties and all you can do is move forward.

(21:04):
You do the thing.
From what I understand, when we spoke previously, your labor and delivery went pretty well,
right?
Oh yeah.
If pregnancy was as easy as my births were, then I'd probably do it a bunch more times,
but it's everything else that surrounds it.
That's an interesting thing to say because I feel like a majority of women say the opposite.

(21:28):
My pregnancies were, they weren't horrible as far as other people's stories.
I had nausea, but I wasn't throwing up all the time.
Where my struggles come in is my body just forgets to hold on, forgets how to hold on
to electrolytes while I'm pregnant.
My magnesium and potassium gets to be critically, critically low.

(21:50):
Interesting.
Does that have anything to do with your cystic fibrosis?
It does.
It's something called secondary pseudo barter syndrome.
It's just a lot of renal dumping of the potassium and the magnesium and calcium.
Does that only happen while you're pregnant or does that happen all the time?
It only happens while I'm pregnant.

(22:10):
Interesting.
It's kind of like people get gestational diabetes where they're not diabetic in normal
life, maybe something.
I know it's attached to your cystic fibrosis, but I feel like maybe it's just one of those
freak things because your body is in such a different state when you're pregnant.
The nephrologist explained it as it being the hemodilution just because your blood volume

(22:31):
increases so much.
Then your vessels are dilated as well.
I would also think that too with your baby developing, your body is giving your child
all the huge everything that it can pull from you.
Some women, their teeth fall apart while they're pregnant because it's pulling the calcium
from their teeth.

(22:52):
We take a lot of, don't we?
As women?
We take a lot of damage to populate the earth.
You all are welcome.
You're welcome, yes.
Amen.
Things that we do for you.
I know.
And the aftermath of everything, just wear and tear.
Definitely deserve prizes or something.

(23:13):
Yes, we do.
Push presents should be normalized.
I agree.
That's funny.
Can I ask a quick question about cystic fibrosis?
I do not know anything about it.
I've heard about, heard the term a lot.
So can you tell me about that and what does that mean for you?
Yes.

(23:33):
Cystic fibrosis is a recessive hereditary illness.
It's screened for on the newborn screenings now, but it causes the sodium chloride channels
in the cells to not function properly and that causes a buildup of thicker secretions,

(23:53):
mucus in the lungs, pancreas, digestive system.
So it causes GI issues and it also causes a lot of respiratory issues.
Living with that, what do you have to do?
Do you take meds?
Yes.
I take newer medication called trikafta.
It is a CFTR modulator drug.

(24:15):
It's a newer class of drugs, pretty expensive.
So thank God for good insurance.
When I was a kid, I would have to do breathing treatments twice a day on a normal basis.
More so if I was sick.
I've had IV antibiotics before, but I am lucky and have avoided hospital admission my entire
life for it.
That's awesome.

(24:36):
That's really good.
And then throughout your pregnancy, were you able to stick on that same medication?
Was that safe to take during pregnancy?
Yes.
That's good.
So I have a little sidebar.
They've recently started treating moms that don't have CF with it, but have an in-utero
diagnosis for their child of having CF because it has therapeutic properties.
It does cross the facinib, but that was discovered after I delivered my last baby.

(25:02):
So less than some months ago, they figured that out.
So do any of your children have CF since it's a recessive trait?
No.
My husband doesn't carry the trait.
We had him tested for all of them.
So you both have to carry the trait first, so both of your parents carried it, therefore
you would have it?
So I have two copies of the gene, and then my husband has zero.
But my mom and my dad both have one copy of the gene.

(25:23):
Got it.
Okay.
Therefore they're not sick with it and don't have any of the traits of it, like physically,
but they were able to pass it on to me and then two of my brothers.
I was going to ask us it.
So every kid that they would have would have it or it's just 50-50 shot that any kid that
they have would get CF?

(25:46):
No.
Some of my siblings are just carriers, but everybody has at least one copy of the gene.
I was just one of the unlucky ones that got both.
Right.
Okay.
Some, you said some of my siblings, yet you and two brothers have it.
How many siblings do you have?
I'm the oldest of eight kids.
Oh my god.
Big family.
Yeah.
Okay.
So I was wondering, because when you said some, I'm thinking there's more than four.

(26:09):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Wow.
You're the oldest.
Yes.
Are you the most responsible?
Yeah.
How old is the youngest?
The youngest is, she's nine.
Those are full-blooded siblings.
The four oldest are my mom and biological dad and the four youngest are my mom and my

(26:30):
stepdad.
Okay.
Okay.
There's some half siblings.
Yes.
Whoa.
Dang.
No twins.
Go mama.
Yeah, for sure.
Super moms.
She had twins too?
No.
No twins.
No multiples.
That is, I mean, I said to you when you first got here how I'm having baby fever, but
my uterus is tired, your mom's uterus is exhausted.

(26:51):
Yeah.
She decided we're done after that.
Is there a religious aspect to it?
Or she just really likes children?
No, she just really likes kids.
That's awesome.
Either way, it's awesome.
I admire, I really do.
I'm maxed out at three.
I really admire people that have big families.
I think it's super cool.
It's not for me, but I wish that I loved children more than I do.

(27:17):
I love your honesty.
That sounds so terrible coming out of my mouth.
I love my kids, but they're very extroverted.
They're not introverted.
They are a lot.
So when people have, I don't know how they afford it, number one, have houses full of
children, but if you can afford it, and if you have some families, I actually know somebody

(27:40):
who has 10.
At this point, she may have 11.
I photographed her while she was pregnant with her 10th, and they literally had one
of those transportation vans for their family.
I believe it.
And it was a nice one too.
It was like a Mercedes.
It was those really big fancy ones.
I just want to know what her husband does for a living.
That's what I'm saying because she doesn't work.
Right.
And they have a farm.

(28:00):
I know exactly what you're talking about.
How?
I don't know.
If you are listening and you're one of these people, please write to us.
We want to know how you guys do it because we respect the crap out of you and just are
curious how you do it.
Well, it's all admiration.
I remember my mom always having everything set out perfectly in the morning.

(28:21):
We'd all have breakfast and all have our clothes laid out when we were going to school and
everything.
Gosh, I struggle to get two babies out the door.
I'm saying I think that the more kids you have, the more organized you have to be because
otherwise it's just going to be sheer chaos.
But the less the kids you have, the less, I guess, responsible and organized you have

(28:48):
to be because in my life I have four kids that's far less than 10.
And I am not organized.
I'm like, breakfast, find something.
Let's go.
There's no making.
There's no lovars in the pantry.
Grab yourself a go-gurt.
Let's go.
Sometimes I'm brushing my hair when I get to work.
Isn't that bad?
Sometimes she shows up here on a Tuesday to interview.

(29:10):
I haven't brushed her teeth yet.
That was once.
Thank you very much.
We had breakfast last week and you had brushed your teeth.
Once.
Once.
No, that was twice.
It's twice now.
No.
I offered you my toothbrush.
Oh, that was twice.
That's how you guys know you're good friends.
She's so mean to me.

(29:30):
I haven't used it.
I haven't used it.
I bought it.
It was somewhere, I think I bought it and I'm like, I'm just going to put this in the
office just in case I ever need it.
And I didn't.
She did, but she never used it.
So it's still fresh and clean.
I would never offer some random person my toothbrush.
Or you.
I'm sorry.
I wouldn't use it.
No.
You used to chew my gum, though.

(29:51):
I did.
We were young and stupid.
You used to chew my gum, too.
I was young and stupid.
We were young and stupid.
That is not a recommendation.
Do not share your gum with people.
Do not share your gum.
Disgusting.
So gross.
You were teenagers.
Yes, we were.
Come on.
Teenagers are stupid.
So dumb.
Okay, sorry.
Anyways, back on track, people.

(30:14):
This is all staying in.
Oh, is it?
It has to.
It's hilarious.
I'm only going to be getting emails.
You're disgusting.
You don't brush your teeth.
You're three kids and you have to run out the door with them.
Dude, trust me, I get it.
If I didn't wake up at 5 a.m., I would never get anything done for me.
Yeah.
It wouldn't happen.

(30:35):
I can't get up at 5 a.m.
6 30 is pushing it.
Now I have to get up at 6 30 because of traffic.
Yeah, I have to, man.
I get up at 5 a.m. and I still find that I'm scrambling to get out the door.
I'm like, I'm really sure what I'm doing wrong here.
Yeah, I am too.
What time do you leave?
Around 8.
Yeah, me too.
No, I leave at 7.

(30:55):
But I get up at 5.
I brush my teeth, wash my face, put my contacts in, but I think that is why I'm so successful
at keeping my teeth brushed all the time.
Because I have to wear my contacts.
If I don't have my contacts in, then I hate my glasses.
So I'm here.
I'm right next to the sink.
And I've been doing that since I was 12 with contacts, so I feel like it's just part

(31:16):
of my routine.
I have to.
Yeah.
Sorry.
Anyways, now we're really back on track.
That will probably all get caught out because that was a ridiculous sidebar.
No, you'll leave the part in about me not brushing my teeth.
No, that part I'm definitely leaving in.

(31:37):
But the rest of it is ridiculous.
I know.
I love you.
I love you.
All right.
So how did we even get to this point?
We were talking.
What were we talking about?
We were talking about cystic fibrosis.
Oh, she was talking about this.
That's right.
We were talking about the traits and the siblings.
Okay.
So yeah, your mom's a badass.
Agreed.

(31:57):
Agreed.
I hope she listens to this.
I'm sure she will.
Hi, mom.
So I think we were talking about my births, too.
Yes.
So with my first, I went in for a 39-week induction.
Again, was followed by maternal fetal medicine.
So it was the recommendation and I was done with it anyways.

(32:20):
I was ready.
So went in about six hours after I got off work the night before.
And when you go in for an induction, they check you when you get there to see how they're
going to start, if they're going to start with cervical ripening or if they're just
going to jump right into pitocin.

(32:40):
And they put me on the monitor and asked, oh, you're not feeling that?
I said feeling what?
So you're contracting two minutes apart.
Then they checked me and I was six centimeters dilated.
That's the easiest labor.
Oh my God.
Then they started pitocin.
And that was your first?
That was my first.
What a jerk this girl is.
I know.

(33:00):
Can you believe this?
I know.
I'm just kidding.
It wasn't too long.
They started me on pitocin.
I quickly got the epidural.
You started to feel the contractions at that point?
Oh yeah.
Pitocin, you know, they say, oh, you'll reach that intensity anyways.
But now I've done one induced and one unmedicated.
And I feel like I can confidently say that pitocin make a bigger difference than they

(33:24):
say it will.
It makes a huge difference.
I had pitocin with my son.
I was planning on a birth center birth.
I think I was just so excited that I was, you know, my water broke on a chair in the
middle of Bob Evans.
That's a good story.
And I was just so excited.

(33:45):
Like you see on TV, water breaks, baby's coming now.
So I'm expecting baby to be coming now.
And so we checked into the birth center way too early.
I wasn't even in active labor.
I was not even close.
I mean, I was laboring, but I don't know what I'm doing.
We were there for overnight.

(34:06):
I got there at 4 o'clock.
It was over 30 hours.
And then we finally ended up at the hospital.
I think I was like six centimeters dilated, but I hadn't slept in two days because I was
so excited.
Well, it had been, yeah.
So I woke up at 5 a.m. I started feeling back labor.
By 8 I was like, oh, something's going on here.
Then my water, I thought my water broke at like 10 a.m.

(34:28):
But it was just that outside sack that kind of gushed a little.
And then she drove up.
I lived in St. Pete at the time she drove up.
We went to lunch.
Then I laughed.
Water all over the floor in front of old people.
All over the chair.
All over the chair and the floor because it dribbled all over the floor.
I had to let her borrow my sweatshirt that I had to tie around her waist to waddle across

(34:48):
the restaurant to go to the bathroom.
It was intense.
But then it was like maybe at two or three or four o'clock somewhere in there.
I'm like, bringing my bags.
We're checking in.
6.37 o'clock the next night.
I was at 6.77 meters dilated.
And I was like, I'm so exhausted.

(35:09):
And so then I transferred to the hospital and gave me Potosin.
Night and day difference of like just the experience of contractions was so bad.
So then I too was like epidural now.
Yeah.
And then her epidural didn't take.
The first one didn't take.

(35:29):
And I was sleep deprived because being the best friend, I'm not leaving her side.
And everybody else got naps here and there.
And I was like, I was, I, this is my, my husband.
My God child coming into the world.
I had not had kids yet.
She was the first one to have kids.
And I'm like, I'm going to be by your side.
Time and your contractions.
So you're the whole time.
Basically you're doula for lack of a better word at the time.

(35:50):
They didn't even know that word at the time.
They didn't even know that word.
And so excited just like she was.
I mean, I high as soon as I found out I was like in my car gone.
Like I like, I think I left work early.
I was like, sorry, I know this is irresponsible.
My best friends in labor piece out.
I'm leaving.
We're like 23, 24 years old.
And so I rushed up there and was by her side.

(36:11):
But when she got transferred to the hospital and then they said that they, I remember
sitting in the waiting area with her mom and they, they came out and said that, and your
dad was there too.
And they said, and they said that the epidural didn't take.
I started bawling because I was like upset that she was, I knew she was in pain and I
was upset that she was in pain.

(36:32):
Yeah.
And I was so sleep deprived that I was loopy and I was, I was really upset for her.
Cause I knew that was already not her plan.
No, not even close.
And I was upset for her because of that too.
Yeah.
And people thought I was weird cause back then people are like birth center birth, you know
what?
Yeah.
You were weirdo.
I was such a weirdo.
Yeah.

(36:52):
No, birth center births are amazing.
I've had two.
Nice.
Yeah.
So yeah, the difference between.
Potosin.
Yeah.
Let's get back on track.
I'm so sorry.
We totally hijacked.
Yeah.
Totally hijacked your story.
The difference between the induced labor and then the natural labor.
So natural labor, totally better.
Oh yeah.

(37:13):
Oh yeah.
Yeah.
I agree.
Because everything went quick with my first birth and I know when it's not your first
birth, it is likely to go a little bit faster.
So I ended up going to Gainesville to the University of Florida.
We checked into Ronald McDonald at 38 weeks.

(37:33):
I spent that entire week there, just went to appointments, got a whole bunch of lab
stuff done.
Again, there's more to that part.
So we'll circle back.
And you were sent up there because of the upcoming surgery that inevitably was going
to happen for your daughter.
Yes.
Correct.
So they were like, might as well, you're still pregnant, you might as well deliver up
there.
Was that a mindset?

(37:54):
It was on that.
They needed me to deliver up there.
So babies with truncus and other critical congenital heart defects are often like good.
They're not.
And when they're not, it spirals very quick.
So Astrid was good up until the night before her surgery.

(38:14):
And then the night before her surgery, her lung collapsed.
She was really uncomfortable.
She was going into bouts of ventricular tachycardia.
So her ventricles were beating too fast.
So yeah, she started tanking pretty quick.
I read her op note and she actually had to be shocked on the table.

(38:36):
Oh, man.
Oh my gosh.
Getting ready to induce anesthesia.
So it goes zero to 100 really quick.
She was such a little thing too.
Yeah, she was a little pretty.
How was your, how was your backtrap just a little bit?
How was your delivery experience with her?
My delivery experience with her was amazing actually.

(38:57):
I went in to just get another ultrasound because we were up in Gainesville and I was going
to have a induction on the day that I was 39 weeks.
But a lot of people were having babies.
L and D was really busy.
So it kept on getting pushed back because it wasn't like an emergency.

(39:18):
Right.
It was medically necessary.
But you know, the way that triage will go is when they bring in inductions.
So it kept getting pushed back and they wanted to see me in the office, do an ultrasound,
make sure, you know, she was still doing okay.
And she was, and I mentioned to them, you know, with my son, I went in for an induction

(39:39):
and I did not realize I was an active labor when I got there.
So maybe we should just check because at this point I was 39 weeks, two days.
And I remember the nurse said, yeah, that's pretty uncommon, but you know, we'll check.
And they checked and they said, oh, well, you can go to labor and delivery.

(40:02):
You are contracting pretty regularly and you're a good five centimeters, maybe six.
Man.
But I learned my lesson the last time.
I learned my lesson with my first and I ate first before I went into the hospital because
with my first I was too scared.
But I wonder why they gave you pitosin with your first.

(40:22):
If you were already an active labor at what six centimeters dilated, that's when like
the six to 10 range is like the speedier, you know, yeah, why did they give you a pitosin?
They just did just as normal, like under the under the umbrella of normal.

(40:43):
Yeah.
It's interesting.
I was just curious because it just doesn't sit right.
Like you're already progressing so quickly with no outward sign of labor.
Yeah.
Why are we put in doing an intervention unnecessarily?
It feels unnecessary, but that's just me.
I didn't know if you wanted it.
You wanted to speed it up and like, let's get the show on the road.
You know, I think I was just like, yeah, cool.

(41:04):
That sounds fine.
We'll just do this.
Yeah, sure.
But when I went up to Gainesville, they, they were different and you know, I had been through
it before and the labor and delivery beds, if you haven't delivered a child before, they're
about as soft as a park bench to sit on.

(41:24):
They're not very comfortable.
So being stuck with the epidural for my first left my butt kind of sore.
So I knew I was progressing this time.
They checked me, sent me to labor and delivery.
We made a pit stop at IHOT first and went in and they were like, okay, so what do you

(41:47):
want to do because you're progressing pretty well?
They said, I want to see what my body can do.
Yeah.
And they said, okay, you're like, no, we would recommend, you know, if we're not progressing
super quick, then we might talk about POTOSEN.
They're like, but we agree you're progressing pretty well.
On your own, I feel like POTOSEN should be for set aside for something that's like more

(42:12):
emergent, you know, like your labor stops and baby's kind of not doing so hot.
Let's just do a little push up a POTOSEN.
See if we can get it back.
I feel like that would be a good time.
Right.
But somebody who's just like, yeah, and on their own, it just feels unnecessary.
Yeah, kind of.
Because how much are they charging your insurance company to write a question with Astrid?

(42:33):
We really wanted a day shift baby because this was a planned event.
She had lots of people waiting on her with a NICU cardiology.
It makes sense why they would want to do POTOSEN at this point.
I mean, I would understand that that makes sense.
But I did not have POTOSEN for her birth.
I wanted to stay mobile as long as I could.

(42:53):
And really my contractions weren't that painful until they were.
And then it was 15 minutes and she was born.
Nice.
And you didn't have an epidural with this one either?
Nope.
Good on you.
Yeah, it's really about the last 15 minutes or the ones that you're just like, wow, I
don't know if I can do this.
This is really tough.
And that's when you know.
It was kind of funny.

(43:14):
I thought I had more time because I was open to an epidural.
I was like, you know, I want to make sure that I'm like present for her first few minutes
because I will get to hold her, but not for long.
So I want to really be able to take this in.
So I waited until I started to get a little bit more uncomfortable and I thought, you
know, we probably have an hour or two.

(43:35):
It would be a good time giving an anesthesia point of time to come.
I told my nurse, I was like, we could probably go ahead and put it in the call.
She said, okay.
Anything else?
And I was like, no.
And she kind of like slowly meandered to the door and it hit me all of a sudden.
I said, wait.
And she called for an OB stat.

(43:57):
And then yeah, it went very quickly from there.
That's so awesome.
Zero 200.
What a beautiful experience for you.
That's so cool.
With her heart defect, we were expecting her to come out a little blue and a little dusky.
But she didn't.
She was pink.
She was screaming.
She had high apgar.
So she was doing good for, you know, what we expected especially.

(44:21):
Yeah.
Do they have to wait for the baby to be a certain age before they do, they want to do
the open heart surgery?
Bigger is better.
Okay.
But the timing is kind of delicate because when a baby's a newborn, if their term, their
heart is about the size of a walnut.
So you can only imagine how precise, delicate, and fragile the whole procedure can be.

(44:44):
And you know, open heart surgery, they have to paralyze the heart and then put the baby
on bypass while they do the surgery.
So.
How long was the surgery?
I think it was about eight hours.
Whoa.
Yeah.
How were you doing while you were waiting?
Oh, I was a wreck.
I'm sure.
Yeah.
Yeah.
She was born.
I had 10, 15 minutes with her.

(45:07):
And then the NICU said, okay, we have to take her.
And they rolled her away.
And then the quietness and the stillness in the room was kind of like a gut punch.
She was kind of sitting there like, whoa.
What now?
Yeah.
Everything wheeled up to the postpartum floor, but it's a lot different.
I didn't hear from the NICU for a long time.

(45:28):
Oh, that had to be so hard.
That was tough.
They didn't want you to come in there or you had to, you probably have to, because
you just had a baby, they probably won't let you come.
Well.
Because you have to be okay too, right?
Yeah.
You have to be able to walk.
And that was another bonus to not getting the epidural.
Now I did tears.
I had to wait until the stitches were done, but then I was able to get up pretty quickly.

(45:52):
I didn't have to wait for the epidural to wear off.
Right.
And I was able to walk though, not super comfortably.
It was more of a waddle after that.
But they usually make you go to the bathroom and deliver, of course, deliver the placenta
first and all that so that to make sure that you're not hemorrhaging and all that kind
of stuff too.
So I'm sure it took a little bit to make sure that you were good.

(46:13):
Now where I work most of the time, they'll have the dad walk with the baby to the NICU
if the dad's there.
At Shands, they have an open concept NICU as opposed to our local children's hospital
which has private rooms.
So they told dad he couldn't come either.
So they just walked away, you know, with your fresh baby, which is hard.

(46:38):
And then I waited and I kept asking for updates.
They said it would be about an hour before I could come because they had to put lines
in.
But they didn't call for quite a while.
I called for an update.
I asked them what respiratory support she was on, how she was doing.
They said she's on Rumeir, which was a surprise.
I was expecting her to need like a nasal cannula or something at least.

(46:59):
They said that her O2 sats were looking pretty good, which also wasn't expected.
We were expecting them to be in the 70s, 80s range, but they were between 95 and 98, which
was surprising, given her particular heart defect.
And then I got to go down and see her for all of 20 minutes before they said they were
going to try to do her lines again because she was so chunky.

(47:21):
She was a hard stick.
They were having trouble getting the lines in because she was such a chunky girl.
Aw.
But we love chunky babies.
We love chunky babies.
How much did she weigh again?
8 pounds, 15 ounces.
That's a good size little girl.
Yeah.
Aw.
And she just came right out.
She did, yeah.
That's great.
That's great.

(47:41):
That is awesome.
Were you able to breastfeed at all?
Did you try?
I was able to latch her there in the delivery room, but with the cyanotic heart defect,
because there's not high oxygen saturation generally, they won't have great perfusion
to their other organs.

(48:01):
What does that mean?
That means there's not enough oxygen getting to other organs.
It focuses in the oxygen toward the brain and the heart and the vital organs.
So the stomach doesn't have the same strength that it would in a baby without this type

(48:22):
of defect.
So it puts her at higher risk for something called necrotizing enterocolitis, or neck.
Any nicky parents that might be listening, probably familiar with that term, it's really
a dangerous diagnosis if you get that.
It's where the intestines start to die.

(48:43):
So definitely wanted to avoid that.
In order to do so, they use something called TPN.
So it's IV nutrition.
It's everything that they need goes through an IV in their arm or through umbilical lines.
And how long did you have to be fed that way for?
Until her surgery.

(49:03):
Until her surgery.
But one of the reasons that I picked Shand was because they had an aggressive feeding
protocol and they try to get babies to take milk by mouth before their surgery, even if
it's just a little amount.
So it's like 5 ml's, then 10 ml's.
It leads to better neurodevelopmental outcomes, better surgical outcomes.
So it's one of the reasons that I chose Shand.

(49:26):
That was one of the benefits to finding out as early as I did as I got to do some field
trips and talk to a bunch of different centers because Shand was not the closest hospital
that could do this.
We could have gone to all children's.
We could have gone to Joe DiMaggio.
We could have gone to Nicholas Children's.
But none of them gave me as good of vibes as Shand did.

(49:50):
Fun fact, I was born in the same hospital, but back then it was called Alachua General.
But I have family up there, so I'm familiar with that area.
It's a nice area.
Lots of parks.
Yeah.
Yeah, there's lots of trees up there.
Yes.
There's a big difference in that Northern Florida vibe.
It's got that rural feel, even though that area is technically city, but it's just surround.

(50:11):
They will literally build, I don't know how they do it, but it's almost like they build
within the trees.
So the trees still grow around the homes.
And it's like these houses are set back.
Looks like they're in a forest.
It's so pretty.
It's just all oaks and Spanish moss and big fields.
It's got that Georgia feel.
It's so close.
It's so nice.

(50:31):
And when the weather actually does get cool up there, it's beautiful.
It's just gorgeous.
It's like a whole another world.
It's nothing compared to down here.
Anyways, yeah, sidebar.
Sidebar.
She comes out into this world pink and chubby and happy and you get your time with her and

(50:56):
she's unfortunately had to be taken from you and you finally get to get her to her again.
You get that 20 minutes and then what happens?
And then they had to try to place lines in her again because she was a chunky mama and
they were having trouble.
So they had another doctor come and try it again.
And then it was the next morning when I saw her again because they told me to come back

(51:18):
in two hours.
After that point, I got wheeled over there and they said, oh, now's not a good time.
They're still trying to place the lines.
So quickly placing lines is just IVs.
I think they were placing a peripheral inserted central catheter, so a pick line, an art line.
And then they had a umbilical venous catheter and an umbilical arterial catheter.

(51:41):
So there are four basically four different needles that were in her to do different things.
Monitor her in every aspect.
And then she had a scalp IV.
My son had one of those.
He was a NICU baby, my oldest.
I'll never forget coming in that morning and not being warned that he had an IV out of
his head.
I was like, that's really nice to a brand new first time mom.

(52:05):
Thanks for that.
Poor child.
I mean, I understand.
I understand why.
Yeah.
It makes the reasoning makes sense.
But then when you first see it, you're like, why is there a needle sticking out of my
newborn's head?
I work in an environment where I'm used to seeing a lot of this stuff.
But when it's your own child, I'm sure it's very different.

(52:26):
And then it's pretty big difference too between like a NICU and a cardiovascular intensive
care unit.
It's like a whole new level really.
Cause I'm used to seeing the ventilators.
I'm used to seeing the nitric machines.
I'm used to seeing all the lines.
And you know, sometimes you'll have drains and tubes and other things.

(52:48):
And again, I'm not a clinician.
I don't work in a clinical role, but I'm still in the environment.
The cardiac intensive care unit is a whole new deal.
So the first week of life, it seemed pretty normal.
You know, she had the lines with the art line.
They're able to really, really accurately measure her blood pressures, which is really
important.

(53:08):
And she was getting the TPN through her umbilical lines.
She was getting antibiotics through her peripheral IV.
And then, you know, she had the leads on to watch her heart rhythms.
Then the morning of her surgery, they told me to be there at 6am.
I wasn't able to sleep in overnight with her because I had my toddler with me and that's

(53:32):
a whole other thing.
But I came in early that morning and they had her kind of propped with her head back
like a towel underneath her shoulders.
And they said that her, her lung had collapsed overnight.
And she was breathing really fast.
She just seemed agitated.
She was crying more, but she didn't have anything on her.

(53:53):
She was just naked baby because they were going to place new lines and everything when
they got to the operating room.
And I was able to walk down with her and her nurses to the OR, was able to talk to the
anesthesiologist.
They had two anesthesiologists and to walk her into the OR.
Remember taking a picture of her right before they walked her back and it looked like she

(54:14):
was smiling.
She was saying it's going to be okay mama.
It's what it felt like.
But then we kind of wait in her room because they said while she was in surgery, her nurses
would be transforming her room for post-op.
They wouldn't even take her to the PACU.
They would do the post anesthesia care in her room.

(54:35):
And she was in the cardiac intensive care unit at this point.
She wasn't in the shared bay NICU anymore.
There was a little waiting room that we were told to wait in that was right outside the
cardiovascular intensive care unit, the CICU.
And we would be able to see her roll by when she came out of surgery.
And they warned me beforehand but they rolled her by and she had drains, she had wires,

(55:00):
her chest was still open.
She was intubated, she had a bunch of machines, a bunch of drips.
And we were allowed to about two hours after we saw her roll by and could actually really
see how she looked.
They said that the surgery went great.
They didn't have any issues.
The conduit that they placed was perfect.

(55:22):
With truncus they have to separate the aorta and the pulmonary artery.
They have to put a patch in between the ventricles because there's a large ventricular septal
defect, her hole in the heart.
And then they place a conduit between the right ventricle and the pulmonary arteries
which allows her heart to function like it has normal anatomy.
They said that the repair went great.

(55:44):
The conduit was a perfect fit.
It should last her two to five years before we have to go in for a second open heart surgery.
But we walked in and could see her.
She was intubated, she had femoral lines, catheters and two legs.
She was not covered by a blanket anymore.
She was restrained with her wrist kind of out in like a crucifix position.
It's got to be hard to see that.

(56:06):
It was.
She was really puffy too.
She had a lot of edema, a lot of fluid buildup under her skin like on the sides of her chest
and her little face was all puffy.
And she had a pick line in one arm, an art line in another.
She had lines in her legs.
She had pacing wires which are like an external pacemaker that could shock her heart when

(56:30):
she needed it.
She had a bunch of machines stacked.
They called it the power of tower.
They had a bunch of medications, things that were going to stabilize her blood pressure
and her heart rate, things that were going to help get that fluid off of her.
So diuretics.
What do they give it in that small for pain?

(56:53):
No, Versed, she was on Precedex.
And we found out that my kids take more anesthesia than usual to keep them asleep.
Through this experience, the second that they just barely weaned her Precedex, she kind
of fully woke up, which was hard.

(57:15):
They wanted her to start moving around to get the fluid off, but she had a pain crisis
where she fully woke up, her chest was still open, but she started to try to scream over
the breathing tube.
Sorry, trigger warning, I guess.
She started to gargle and she had the breathing tube with oxygen and with nitric to help with

(57:37):
pulmonary hypertension.
And she turned dark purple and she pulled the restraints and pulled the sheets off of the
sides of the bed.
And you could see her ribs kind of flaring because they were...
She was in so much pain.
How long did her chest have to be open like that?

(57:57):
About 48 hours after surgery.
Why?
Because there's so much swelling and they actually have better post-op outcomes if they
wait until that swelling goes down because it doesn't put pressure on the heart.
Okay.
Wow.
But her waking up in the middle of surgery, essentially.
That is so intense.
Was it the middle of surgery or was it just the after surgery and they were...

(58:19):
No, this was over 24 hours after her surgery.
Okay.
So they wanted her to start kind of like waking up and wiggling.
Right.
But they didn't expect her to be like eyes open.
Gotcha.
Kind of.
Right.
And they took morphine and versed and more Presidix to put her back to sleep.
And they had to give her additional rescue doses because it took quite a bit.

(58:43):
But that was not fun.
And then in the cardiac ICU, you have all the monitors and it starts going crazy and
making all of the scary noises.
So you hear her heart rate increase and then things start dinging and that was not fun.
You feel so helpless as the parent in that situation too.

(59:04):
Even before her surgery, again, she was a hard stick.
They had to get like an ultrasound to come in and help them put in a new IV when her
umbilical line was done because that only lasts for a little bit really.
They had an occupational therapist who was wonderful, came in, was trying to help with
just like comfort and containment.

(59:25):
She told me or she showed me where to put my hands and hold her to try to comfort her.
And she said, talk to her.
And when I started talking to her and telling her I was there, Astrid looked toward me and
like stopped crying even though she was getting poked a bunch of times.
No.
It wasn't pain.
I tried to do that then too, but of course when you're in that much pain, I mean even

(59:48):
mom's voice isn't going to help.
But I kept trying and you know, I'm breaking down.
I bet.
Man.
And she's not covered but she's completely, you could see everything, right?
I mean it looked like gauze when they leave you open after surgery to let swelling go down
or for whatever reason.

(01:00:09):
They cover you with something called Gore-Tex.
It's kind of like cling wrap but sterile and stronger.
And then they put gauze over the top of it so you kind of like see her heart beating
in her chest.
Okay.
But you just knew she's so fragile and her chest is wide open.
And you could kind of see like her heart beating underneath.
Wow.
And then yeah, it kind of was a little bit concave so you could see like where the borders

(01:00:34):
were.
That couldn't have been good for her heart.
That stress of waking up in that much pain.
Yeah.
It made her heart rate go up really high but you know they had the pacing wires which I
don't know how many times they fired.
I don't know if they keep track of that or not.
So the pacing wires would keep your heart either beat fast or as necessary or beat slower

(01:00:54):
if it was going too fast?
It can automatically shock if it has a shock bolt rhythm.
Kind of like an AED.
The electrodes instead of being on the chest, on pads are directly on top of the surface
of the heart.
How long were you guys at Shann's?
About a month.
And slowly you know as she started to heal like why don't you kind of walk us through

(01:01:18):
the process of you know her recovering from the surgery and then closing her up and how
all that went.
Those first 48 hours were definitely the most intense.
After that they closed her and they put a wound back on top to help it heal really nicely
which it did.
It worked really well.
You can barely see her scar now.
So they closed her and then a few days later they removed her chest tube 48 hours or so

(01:01:42):
after they were able to close her chest they were able to take the breathing tube out and
she just had a high flow nasal cannula.
They were doing breathing treatments for a little bit just to help get fluid off the
lungs.
After that it was just weaning respiratory support gradually and learning how to eat.
So since she was able to practice that a little bit before her surgery she took on to that

(01:02:06):
pretty quickly pretty well.
She did have nasal feeding tube for a little bit and they talked about if she wasn't going
up on her feeds like if she wasn't taking more gradually like if she kind of plateaued
then we would discuss sending her home with a G tube and it's like she heard that conversation
and she pulled the NG tube out that night and started taking 100% of her bottles by

(01:02:29):
mouth.
Right.
She said nope no more surgeries.
Yep.
My daughter had a G tube for about three months but we only had to use it for maybe 10 days.
Nice.
Yeah.
She was like just started eating by mouth out of nowhere.
So it's like they listened.
I wish we would have waited for the you know we wouldn't have had to have that whole surgery
or anything but you know keeping the NG tube in for too long is not good.

(01:02:53):
Yeah.
I understood that too.
My brother had a G tube too because one of the ones that has CF.
I had a G tube for a while just because the CF the GI issues can cause pretty severe
malnutrition.
We just had to get extra calories into it.
Right.
That was the one thing that was the benefit of having the G tube because even though she
only needed it for 10 days it took we had to wait three months to get it taken out for

(01:03:17):
the stoma to heal and whatever.
So I was able to pump her full of everything I wanted.
It was great.
You know beet juice, cod liver oil, all these horrible tasting things.
I just pumping right through that G tube.
It was great.
I told my mom that she should make like a G tube cookbook because she was able to get

(01:03:39):
pounds onto my brother even though he was so skinny because she would put peanut butter
and like pureed meats and whatever she needed to all the all the good fats and proteins
all of it all the vitamins and minerals he needed into his G tube stuff that you can
never get him to take them out.

(01:04:00):
You know there was a silver lining to it for sure.
So how did she do when she's healed and she starts eating like you just see her like
skyrocket like did she just like take off like a normal baby and develop the way she
was supposed to develop.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It's impressive how quick cardiac kids heal.
I've made friends with other moms whose babies had to have open heart surgery now and they

(01:04:24):
bounce back so quickly.
I think kids are more resilient.
I don't know.
I think kids are tougher than adults.
They feel faster than adults.
They bounce back faster.
Just more tenacious.
I guess.
Yeah.
She sounds like she's going to be a little spitfire.
Yeah.
What I've heard.
She'll keep you on your toes.
That's for sure.

(01:04:45):
Yes.
That you said that from what they fitted her with she last her about at least a two to
five years.
So what is what does her future look like as far as surgeries go.
We'll go back to Shans again for her next surgery.
Hopefully we won't need any sort of procedures in between that time.
Does she go back for do you do any kind of like monitoring.
Does she have to have routine appointments.

(01:05:07):
Yeah.
We see cardiology locally and she has echoes and chest X-rays every so often to make sure
everything's functioning well.
They'll watch for narrowing of that conduit.
If it were to have narrowing she would have to go to a cath lab to have like a stent put
in or she would just have to have the open heart surgery to replace it.

(01:05:30):
When would you know.
Eventually she'll outgrow the conduit and that's when it'll need to be replaced.
And when are you going to know that she's outgrown the conduit because it's just like
X-rays to see okay this is too small now and it's not functioning properly.
The echoes I believe.
So just ultrasounds of the heart and then it'll tell us.
Okay.
So all of her milestones and stuff is she doing good.

(01:05:52):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Tell us about her now.
We go to OT and PT and they tell us she's doing great.
Yeah.
So she's started solid foods now.
She's the happiest baby ever.
She sleeps through the night.
She eats well, sleeps well.
She's always smiling, very vocal.
Aw.
She's figuring out that she can get all over the house just by barrel rolling somewhere

(01:06:15):
in that stage now.
Aw.
So you mentioned that her brother is on the autism spectrum and how was that through her
healing process for you because sometimes I guess I'm asking it as did he know how to
be gentle with her?
No.
Okay.
No.
He's been it.
Well most brothers in general don't know how to be gentle.

(01:06:36):
So I was just curious if that was difficult.
Yeah.
That kind of complicated the whole journey.
Also I was alone with him in Gainesville for a lot of the time.
So my mom, my sister and my husband came up for that first week that we were all there.
Even I couldn't be alone in Ronald McDonald House at that point because if I was to go

(01:06:56):
into labor they would want me to have somebody there to get me to the hospital.
After she was born I think she was born on a Tuesday and they were there through that
Sunday and then it was just me and my son that were out there and that was challenging.
It was a right place, right time kind of thing.

(01:07:18):
My son goes to a wonderful ABA center here in our area and they have two locations in
the state of Florida.
One is here, one is down the street from Shands Hospital.
Nice.
And they were so gracious to accommodate him up there.
So during the week I would wake up in the Ronald McDonald House with my son, get him
ready, get him breakfast and lunch pack, take him to the ABA center there and I would go

(01:07:38):
up to the hospital and spend the day there with Astrid and I would leave and go pick
him up, have dinner, go to bed, do the whole thing over the next day.
That's great that they had that.
And did this whole journey of yours affect, I mean obviously it had to affect your ability
to work and what did the financial aspects of all of this, what was that effect on your
family?

(01:07:59):
We are still financially recovering today.
Oh I'm sure.
It's only been seven months right?
Yeah.
I can stay behind to work to make sure that bills were getting paid.
So my employer offers really good insurance and they have nurse case managers that ended

(01:08:21):
up playing a really large role.
I had a nurse case manager through our insurance that called me just to check up on me and
would talk to me and she was wonderful.
Were you working as your current position as the clinical data specialist?
Were you doing that prior?
Yes.
And then you're still doing that now?
Yes.

(01:08:42):
Oh wow.
You were able to keep your job.
A lot of people don't.
Yes they were.
When they go through something medical like this.
Super accommodating.
They even let me do a little bit of work remotely as I was able to.
Ended up being harder to do so than I thought it was going to be.
Never realized how hands on busy hospital admissions can be.

(01:09:03):
So I think you had mentioned in our pre-interview that everything kind of lined up for you in
the position that you're in to just have the resources and the help and the people to kind
of explain things to you.
Is that right?
Or am I just taking it?
Yes.
So I guess we can back up to 2019 quite a bit of ways before any of this happened.

(01:09:23):
I had just gotten married when my sister got into a horrible motorcycle accident.
She was a trauma alert.
They took her to our local trauma center.
I was working a random gate security job in Naples at the time and would go and see her
every day after work while she was admitted to the hospital and then in rehab.

(01:09:45):
You know going in and out of a hospital every day you start to make connections and small
relationships with people that are there and I ended up connecting with some of the security
staff at that hospital which connected me with a job at another one.
And that was December 2019 when I started at another hospital in our area right before

(01:10:06):
COVID happened.
We ended up playing a pretty active role in all of that because visitation changed a lot
and there were lots of feelings from staff, from visitors, from patients.
Patients weren't able to have their families in there to advocate for them anymore.

(01:10:27):
The security staff in the hospitals at least in our area attend every emergency call that
happens in the hospital whether that's somebody being violent, whether that's like a fire
alarm pulled code blues.
So when COVID started happening we started seeing a lot more pretty intense code blues
and it went from just being this scary kind of mysterious thing.

(01:10:50):
We had under 10 patients and the whole system in the beginning and then it quickly exploded
from there.
So we also were the staff responsible for transporting dead bodies to the morgue when
patients passed away.
That's an interesting tag along to your job title of security.
Yes.

(01:11:11):
Interesting.
Yes.
So a lot of times be there when someone would come into the ER we would be there when they
were a code blue in the ICU and then we would be there as the last people to transport
them before the funeral home came and pick them up.
So it was really an interesting background position.

(01:11:33):
I wasn't playing the active role in the code blues but we were there.
I think we probably saw I don't know 50 to 80 deaths in a month prior to COVID.
The month before I delivered my son we saw over 500.
So you were no longer security at that point.
You were just corpse transport.
Pretty much.

(01:11:54):
Geez.
And you're pregnant too.
Yikes.
Yes.
So you know as I got further in my pregnancy with my son I took more of a desk roll dispatching
but that was a weird time.
And I don't think I processed any of that while I was going through it and one of my
brothers died when I was in the first trimester.

(01:12:15):
Oh my goodness.
I'm sorry.
I'm in a bunch of tangents just trauma dumping over here.
That's what we're here for.
So COVID started.
I found out I was pregnant with my son.
We were very excited.
I called my brother well close friends and family being an anxious person.
I didn't like announce the whole world until I was through the first trimester when that

(01:12:39):
chance of pregnancy loss does decrease.
And I remember calling my brother and he was like oh my gosh I was just telling my friends
that I would be a cool uncle.
That's cool.
I would be the fun one.
He's like what do you think it is?
A girl or boy.
He said well right now I'm getting girl vibes.
And he said no I put money on it being a boy.
It was two or three weeks later when my best friend back home called late.

(01:13:08):
She's a cop.
So when she called twice I was like oh.
Oh no.
And I picked up the phone and she said there is no easy way to say this.
I'm just going to come out and say it Max is dead.
Oh my god.
Yeah.
What happened?
Me and my other brother were cleaning guns to go to the gun range and our younger brother

(01:13:34):
accidentally fired a gun.
Oh my gosh.
And it hit him in the chest.
Oh.
Well.
How's your younger brother?
Oh my god.
He's surviving.
Poor kid.
Traumatized.
Traumatized.
You know it was an accident.
Oh it makes me.
And the cops were assholes.

(01:13:54):
I'm sure.
You're in the back and like.
Oh my god.
Trauma on top of trauma.
Oh my god you're poor brother.
Both of your brothers but.
He said they didn't let him grab shoes so they took him to the jail without shoes and
the cop that picked him up was sitting there talking to his wife on the phone calling him
like these stupid kids and how old was your brother that died?

(01:14:18):
Twenty-one.
Oh my god.
And my brother.
How old was your younger brother?
Eighteen.
His real life is ruined. I hope not, but man.
Yeah, that is really heavy.
That's so heartbreaking for both of them.
Yeah, and it's been really,
yeah, I think when an accident happens

(01:14:40):
and it takes, it's a loved one that accidentally
takes the life of a loved one,
it's some complex feelings with it.
Yeah, of course.
We love him and we don't, it was an accident.
We're not angry with him or anything.
It was an accident, that's tough.
He ended up getting charged with manslaughter
in five years probation,

(01:15:01):
so he didn't have to serve any time,
which is fortunate.
Oh, that's good.
How did your parents handle this?
I think as well as they could have,
but my mom is devastated.
I mean, can't imagine losing a baby.
I mean, even though he was 21, he's still her baby.

(01:15:22):
He's still her kid.
Shoot, my brother's 23, he's my baby brother.
Yeah.
I think the shock of how it happened too
was more of a gut punch than it actually happening
because my brother is a,
rode motorcycles and stuff
and my friend was a traffic cop,
so I kind of expected her to say that he or my dad

(01:15:43):
had been in a traffic accident.
I don't know, I had that kind of feeling.
Right.
But yeah, so that was a shock.
Wow, man.
And that was right when you found out you were pregnant
or within the first second trimester.
That was the first trimester still.
So I was about 12 weeks pregnant then, I think.

(01:16:05):
And that was with your first, right?
Yeah, with my first.
And then we drove out to Oklahoma, first funeral,
and then drove back.
And then I went right back to work,
continued working through the COVID stuff,
and I think it was just so go, go, go
for such a long time that I never really processed it.

(01:16:25):
So I came right back to work and continued,
and it was COVID land,
and I worked right up to delivery with my son,
and I worked often six days a week
because we had one of our team members died,
a bunch of others quit because they got scared,
don't blame them.
I was trying to go to college at the same time,

(01:16:46):
didn't do great in that.
But when you're rolling bodies through the hospital
500 a month, I think, you know,
if you're any normal person,
I would be kind of freaked out as a security guard.
Yeah, and I didn't feel it.
I didn't feel any of it.
It became the new normal.
It was kind of, I hate to say numb to it

(01:17:07):
because it had its moments that were rough,
but they didn't feel rough for very long.
It would be like a few minutes.
And then you just kept going.
Yeah, because there's another person
that you have to transport.
Yes.
When they're that quick, that many,
that's a lot of bodies, that's a lot.

(01:17:27):
A lot of people, that Delta wave that happened
in like August of 2021 was intense.
I think that was worse than the initial COVID.
Well, a lot of it too was also just bad management
of patient care.
Yeah.
And a lot of people were getting put on ventilators
that shouldn't have been put on ventilators.

(01:17:48):
And it's what's like over 80 something percent chance
that you're not gonna come off of a ventilator
once you're on.
Yeah, I don't think they knew that at first.
I think they thought they were trying to figure out
or they were just throwing,
it's like they're throwing spaghetti at a wall
and seeing what would stick.
And so many people lost their lives because of it.
And then lost their lives without being able to say goodbye
to loved ones.

(01:18:09):
And that was just a crazy, crazy time
that I'm so glad is way past, we're way past that now.
But yeah, to be in your position to have to see that
and being pregnant and your hormones are all over the place.
I mean, what happened?
And dealing with the loss at the same time.
And dealing with the family loss.
Like what happened, did you process it

(01:18:31):
and how did you process it at some point?
Well, I did process it when I was on maternity leave.
Mm, okay.
And I actually found out soon after I delivered my son
that there was a study that linked the use of pitocin
as augmentation for labor with a 33% higher risk

(01:18:54):
of developing postpartum mood disorders
such as postpartum anxiety, depression or psychosis.
Really?
If you have history of a mood disorder such as anxiety,
which I have dealt with as long as I can remember.
So it was almost immediate after my son's birth.
Soon as I closed my eyes,
it felt like rapid fire nightmares.

(01:19:14):
And it was just these insane intrusive thoughts
of like bad things happening.
Like I called my mom when she was home
and asked her to send me a picture of my cat
because she was watching my cat while I was in the hospital
because I was afraid that she got it.
I was like, my brain convinced me
that she had been mauled by a dog.
Hmm, maybe had that dream and then thought it was real.

(01:19:37):
Have you ever done that?
Really?
That woke up?
Woke up.
If you ever woke up and you're like legit
thinking that something you dreamed was real.
Yeah.
So I bet that's what happened.
And it was just intense.
And I dealt with this intense soul crushing,
crippling anxiety that if I stepped away from my son
or if I let somebody else touch my son, he would die.

(01:19:59):
If I took him out of our room, he would die.
So I literally hold us up in a room
for like the first month.
Didn't want to go anywhere.
I went contagion crazy.
I was scared of COVID.
I was scared of RSV.
I was scared of anything happening.
He got the sniffles after a well visit to the pediatrician.
And I lost my mind about it.

(01:20:20):
I was stayed up for like three days watching him breathe.
Oh my gosh.
So that followed me for a while.
And even with everything going on,
I didn't have that intensity of anxiety after my daughter.
How did you get through that anxiety with your son?
Did you go on any kind of medication?
I was so scared to ask for help because I

(01:20:42):
was afraid that if I talked about my anxiety with anybody,
then DCFS would come and take my kid.
Sure.
So when he was about a year old, I finally got into therapy.
OK.
And how's that going?
You still going?
I am.
And my therapist is awesome.
And she's been a godsend through all of it.
I knew the struggles that I had after my son.

(01:21:03):
So I got into it before I got my daughter's diagnosis.
So she's walked this journey with me.
Wow.
That's awesome.
It has been a huge support.
Yeah, I love my therapist too.
I don't have one, but I probably need one.
Yeah.
I feel like everybody should get a therapist.
It's been a life changing thing.
It really does.
And I think it took me time to get to know her.

(01:21:24):
And our therapy is more conversational.
It's not just like I'm here with a problem
and you need to help me.
We just talk about whatever.
And I learned so much.
If I think back, I'm accumulating all of these tactics.
And without realizing it in the moment,
it's more just like we're just talking about whatever,

(01:21:47):
politics, whatever.
It's been a topic of discussion this last week, too.
Yes, it has.
Yeah.
And we decided that we're not going
to talk about politics on the podcast.
No.
That's what the therapist is for.
Yes.
Yeah.
We talk about it with each other privately, but not with podcast.
I think that's smart.
I feel like there's a place for everything.

(01:22:08):
Yeah.
Absolutely.
So how's the whole family doing now?
We're doing good.
How's your husband?
He's doing good.
He's a trooper.
He's making it through it.
He's really stepped up to help with the whole transition
of helping our son learn how to have gentle hands.
And just balancing therapies for my daughter,

(01:22:29):
because she's an OT and PT, balancing therapies for my son,
because he's in speech therapy and an ABA.
So he's verbal.
Starting to be.
Yeah.
He's so smart.
He's finding his voice now.
It's awesome.
Yeah.
Speech therapy is fantastic.
My daughter was in all three of those therapies.
And they do such great work.
And I didn't realize that speech therapy was more than just

(01:22:49):
talking.
Yeah.
Like teaching you how to talk.
Or when they told me that she had to go to speech therapy,
I'm like, but she talks.
It wasn't all about that.
It's just different strategies, memory strategies,
and all these different things that I didn't realize
that they focused on.
And he's so smart, too.
Like he knows all of the planets.
You can show him a picture.
And he'll say, Neptune.
Aw, cute.

(01:23:10):
Yeah.
So awesome.
Three's a good age.
It is.
It's fun.
How does his autism show up in his life?
So we do have the speech delay.
And then regulating emotions is a challenge for him.
Like he'll get overwhelmed with certain things.
The baby crying, his big one, it upsets him.

(01:23:30):
That's one we're working on right now.
He did really well in the hospital, surprisingly.
We were prepared for it to be more of a struggle than it was.
But they put us in a room that had kind of a cozy corner.
And that worked out well.
But he had some physical aggression for a while.
He didn't play very nice with other kids.

(01:23:50):
But he does now.
A lot of the emotional regulation
through challenging moments.
But it's doing good.
He's also 3-2.
So I bet as he ages, he'll probably kind of mellow out
in that way.
Yeah.
3 is tough anyways.
I think.
2 and 3 is tough.
I think that.
And also, he's a boy.
And I think it takes men about 30 years

(01:24:11):
to start emotionally regulating.
At least.
At least, exactly.
So he's got an uphill climb with his emotional regulation.
But.
Yeah.
Oh, and I haven't talked about some people who
played a really huge role.
Yeah.
That's what I was trying to get at earlier.

(01:24:31):
But I couldn't remember the words that you were using.
My sister's accident led me to the job at one of the hospitals.
And then my anxiety caused me to not be able to bring myself
to go back to work in that full-time overnight position
and leave my son overnight with anybody else, which led me
to a position in the NICU.
Way before, my daughter was even an athlete or an R.I.

(01:24:53):
And the people that I work with in the NICU
played such a huge role in supporting me
through education, through emotional support,
and through guidance, through just their knowledge
of the different places in the state of Florida
that we could get the care that she needed.
That's awesome.
The doctors, the nurses, everyone just

(01:25:16):
made me feel comfortable and supported me,
and made me feel confident that I was actually
going to be able to bring Astrid home.
And your role here also probably prepared you just
with medical terminology.
I mean, you dropped some medical terminology bombs
on us today that I'm like, I'll have to look that one up later.
I'll look that one up later.

(01:25:36):
To just get more of a deep dive on them.
And you explained the process so well.
Yeah.
Yeah, I feel like you know, like when
you said you're not in a clinical role,
you could have fooled me.
It's like adjacent to.
Right.
Adjacent to.
But they played such a massive role
in helping me through this entire thing.
So I feel like those events that led me to the job that I'm

(01:26:00):
in right now to be around the people that I was around,
and my son's autism diagnosis, putting him
in this wonderful ABA center that helped us
through our time in Gainesville, I
don't know how I would have survived any of that
without any of those elements.

(01:26:21):
Yeah.
That's great.
Right place, right time.
But it also was a tragedy of your sister's accident
that kind of snowballed everything.
Yeah.
And she is because there was a surgeon rotating in our area,
right place, right time.
That was a specialist for the particular type of injury
that she got.
That was a things happen the way they do for a reason,

(01:26:44):
I think.
How's your sister now?
She's doing well.
She's fully ambulatory.
I mean, deals with pain.
But.
Yeah.
You know, she can walk, run, do everything.
Did she break anything?
Yeah, she broke her back, and she
had a really nasty open book pelvic fracture.

(01:27:04):
Ouch.
So it broke open in the front, and then it separated
from both sides of her spine.
Oh my god.
So that would cut a very, very, very easily
been a fatal injury.
Yeah.
Yeah, wow.
And she was touching go for a little bit.
And you said she's running now?
She can run.

(01:27:24):
She doesn't choose to, but yeah.
Just wow.
And she can jump on trampolines, and she's gone horseback
riding, and.
Wow, that's amazing.
So lots of miracles.
Lots of bad things have happened.
But gosh, how many blessings have happened in a long time?
I've noticed that.
Like in our suffering, there's so many blessings
that come out of situations like this.

(01:27:44):
And I feel like those are too many coincidences.
Yeah.
In a row, for it to all be random.
Yeah, that was what I was going to say.
I don't want to interrupt, but that's a God thing.
It has to be.
It has to be.
It's like I've, you know, the people
that I've met along the way, the voices that have guided me
on this journey.

(01:28:05):
And you were able to advocate for your daughter
and knowing everything that you were exposed to.
And you know how the system operates.
You know how these people talk.
You know the terminology.
And I knew the questions to ask.
Right.
I didn't go to the hospital that we probably
would have just been automatically sent to because I
knew the questions to ask.

(01:28:26):
Yeah.
They ended up at the right place.
And they took wonderful care of her.
And the surgeon there had the best bedside manner I've ever seen.
So.
That's fantastic.
It's always a bonus.
Yes.
Because can we just stop for a second and appreciate medicine?
The fact that somebody is so skilled that they can go
and do open heart surgery on a heart the size of a walnut.

(01:28:48):
Right.
I mean.
Yeah.
I mean, I'm very much anti-pharma.
Yeah.
No.
I'm just.
I'm not a big huge fan of Western medicine.
But I also know there is a place and a time.
And the things that they can do are just miraculous.
It's incredible.
Like I'm not that obtuse.
You know what I mean?
I can absolutely appreciate life saving medicine, life

(01:29:11):
saving surgeries.
And something as delicate as open heart surgery on an infant
is just wonderful.
That's wonderful.
That's like one of the coolest things.
Like what gets somebody into that job?
I actually was listening.
I was very, this is very fascinating to me
because my husband is a gamer.
It seems like off topic, but I promise it's not.

(01:29:32):
He's into video games.
He's not nearly as bad as he used to be.
And my boys are both really into playing video games.
But there was a podcast.
I was just actually, I think it was Joe Rogan with Elon Musk.
And they were talking about how surgeons that play video games
perform like, I think it was like 26 to like 30 something
percent better because of their like hand dexterity.

(01:29:56):
I believe that.
And I was like, huh, there is something positive to these nerds.
Like, well, yeah, they were like, yeah.
And it's a real deep discussion about like the different video
games we're talking about this study.
And they're like, why would they not make surgeons like take
a course and make them play video games?
If it's proven that it's actually going to make them 30%

(01:30:16):
better, make them play.
And I was like, that's really interesting.
Probably training the muscles in the dexterity in your hands.
Yeah, it's a really interesting take.
I know I could never.
I can't even use like a regular Xbox controller that
involves a game where you have to like back up.
I remember years ago when my husband was really
into playing Halo when we were dating.
And I was like, oh, like if you can't beat him, join him.

(01:30:38):
All right, fine, I'll try.
And I was standing there, stuck in a corner the whole time.
I couldn't do anything.
I was at the apartment during this
because I too was stuck in the corner.
And I couldn't get out.
I couldn't do anything.
I'm like, well, there's, there can't be a surgeon.
No, that's out.
My husband and I used to play Halo together.
Oh, really?
When we first started dating, it's so funny.
But I would just kind of like spray and pray.

(01:30:59):
Yeah, I can't do nothing.
My kids make fun of me.
I'm like, listen, I will whoop your asses a Mario Kart.
Let's go.
Let's make a place of Mario wonders and Sonic.
But that's like the ex-donkey Kong.
That's the extent of it.
I used to be really good at Mortal Kombat
because I was just like a button pusher.
Pounding the buttons.
That's it.
All the combos.

(01:31:20):
It would just happen.
I would have zero idea of how I would get the combo.
But I'd kick my brother's ass.
Well, I thought of something I wanted to add to,
and I'm not really sure where it'll fit in.
But something that I thought was important too
was with the unmedicated labor.
I remember getting to a point where I both thought and yelled

(01:31:42):
that I couldn't do it anymore.
That's it.
And I had this nurse in the room who grabbed my face.
She said, your baby's right there.
You don't have a choice.
You're going to do it.
You're doing it now.
And she took my hand to touch my baby's head,
and that gave me the strength to push through it.

(01:32:04):
And I feel like that kind of strength
that I got from that moment helped me through some
of the harder parts of her admission
and through that whole experience in Gainesville.
The moments that I thought, I really can't do this.
Mentally was able to tell myself after that,
I'm doing it now.
I can't just stop.

(01:32:26):
You've no choice.
Yeah.
That's such a beautiful way it connected.
Yeah, I love that.
And it's always the second you start saying, I can't do this.
Baby's literally right there.
It happens every time.
I actually watched a, there was like a reel or something today

(01:32:46):
of a woman who gave birth in the car.
And I've seen stuff like it before,
but her husband must have had the phone in the door
filming her because she is going crazy.
Oh my God, I heard so bad.
And he's like, honey, do you need to take your pants down?
And she's like, he's right there.
I think you've seen this.
And right at the end, you can see her stomach

(01:33:06):
was just doing its thing.
And she's like, I can't do this anymore.
And it's like a second she said it, we all do it.
We all say it.
So can you get through it?
Yeah.
You don't really have a choice.
No, I mean, your body's going to do it for you.
I think that she genuinely was trying to hold it in.
And her belly was just doing it, doing the contracting

(01:33:31):
and pushing that baby out.
That fetal ejection reflex.
And then she's, you know, barbaric yelps.
And that baby was born right there in her lap.
Well, not in her lap, but she pulled it right up.
And it was just, I'm like, teared up.
It was such a sweet video.
That baby fever really is getting to you.
I know.
I know.
My husband said yesterday, maybe we should look

(01:33:51):
into adopting a baby.
I'm like, I would love to adopt a baby because I want a baby.
But I don't actually want to have another baby.
Yeah.
You know?
A little bit.
You know what the thing is?
I've come to realize, and my kids are still pretty young,
they're 11, 9 and 7.
I can't wait to be a grandma.
I know.
I don't want to put that in the universe.
Like, I do not want my kids to have kids young.

(01:34:14):
I want them to do things, you know, the right way.
I said it yesterday.
But I cannot wait to be a grandma.
My mom said it's just different.
Like, it's a whole new level of excitement.
Yeah.
Well, because you can give them back,
and you can like just love them.
And I'm going to have a really, really hard time
with boundaries.

(01:34:34):
I already know that.
My kids are probably going to be like, mom, leave us alone.
I'm going to be that mom with all the advice.
But, yep.
I know I will.
Because I feel like even though I
had to make it up as I went along as a parent,
I'm real good at it.
My kids are like genuinely good people.
And I feel like I know what I'm doing.

(01:34:54):
Give me the baby.
And I'll just, I'll do it myself.
I'll raise this child on my own.
Because you know how I am.
I'll do it myself.
Yep.
Just do it myself.
So I'm going to have to probably get another second therapist
before my kids start having kids.
Just start helping me draw boundaries for me, for them.

(01:35:17):
Oh, goodness gracious.
All right.
Well, thank you for sharing your story about Astrid.
She's a little cutie.
We got to see a picture before we got started recording.
And she's got beautiful chubby cheeks.
And she looks so happy.
And I'm so happy for you guys that everything
has come to this point, and she's doing well.
And please continue to update us on her progress in the future.

(01:35:39):
We would love to meet maybe when the time comes down the road
for if we're still doing this in a few years,
and she has to have another surgery.
You can report back and go and join us again.
You know, I'll invite everybody to join us
at the 2024 Lee County Heart Walk.
It's on December 14th at Centennial Park.
It starts at 8 o'clock in the morning.
Oh, that's great.

(01:35:59):
And walk for people who have dealt with heart disease
later in their life.
Walk for babies that have congenital heart disease.
I love that.
Yeah, I do too.
Ending on that plug.
That's perfect.
Thank you so much, Sarah.
Thank you.
Thank you.
All right.
Thank you for listening.
You can find us at our brand new website, www.icantionimagine.com,

(01:36:23):
and find us on our socials at Instagram, at I-C-E-I underscore
podcast, or on Facebook at I Can't Even Imagine dash
a podcast for moms.
Thank you so much for listening.
Thank you.
Bye-bye.
Bye.
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