Episode 14: You're Not Alone – Talking Mental Health with Children's Author Mary Asaro - I Can't Even Imagine

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
I can't even imagine.

(00:06):
Have you heard those words and thought to yourself, neither can I?
But it happened.
You lived it.
But most importantly, you survived it.
We hear you, we see you, and we're here to talk about it.
We're two moms, lifelong best friends, and we've both experienced traumatic life-altering
events involving our children.

(00:29):
Welcome to Episode 14 of I Can't Even Imagine.
I'm Victoria.
And I'm Stephanie.
I'm really interested in trying, and big key word here is trying, because I'm not consistent
with much in my life.
The carnivore diet or the keto diet.
And I've been learning a lot, yeah.

(00:51):
I've been reading a lot about mostly carnivore, and I love meat.
Love meat.
I always say to Joe, every time we make steak, I'm like, I could eat this for every meal,
every day.
It's so good.
But I just don't know how to even begin in changing my lifestyle when it comes to food.
And I wanted to pick your brain a little bit about it, because I know you always say, if

(01:13):
I can do something for three days and get over that hump, I'm good.
That's what I found for me.
For you.
It's not like that for everybody.
And if I try to talk about it with people online, everybody comes at you with what works
for them, and it's just not realistic.
Right.
And I just don't know how to fit healthier lifestyle choices into my life right now.

(01:36):
And I'm struggling with that, because yesterday I was in a really, like I said, I woke up
really tired.
I was just in a funk all day.
I had just come down.
I was coming down from basically ovulation.
And so hitting my luteal phase and just everything sucks.
Life is awful.

(01:57):
I feel like crap.
I'm bloated.
All the things.
But I know I need to make lifestyle choices that are better.
And you've known me since kindergarten, and I've always been thin.
Most of my life anyway.
And I've never really felt big.

(02:18):
I've felt like, yes, I have a belly because I've had three kids.
I have big size.
I'm like a size 14.
Right.
Sometimes I think six.
But you're so tall.
At my worst, I was size 16.
I think I'm about a 14 right now.
But you're so tall that it's evens its out.
You're still a slender build.
Yes.

(02:38):
It's not like a body dysphoria.
Was it dysphoria, that you say?
Right.
Body dysphoria thing.
It's not like I'm looking at myself and I'm just like, I mean, I am a little bit grossed
out.
Don't get me wrong sometimes.
Or I'm just my bad days.
Like stand in front of the mirror naked and jump.
Right.
Yeah.
You know, it's not like, oh, I got to fit into like a size eight.
Like it's not like that.

(02:59):
It's just like I want to live longer.
I want to be healthier.
And it doesn't really matter my size.
But like toning up would be really nice.
Yeah.
I don't know.
I just don't, I don't really know where I'm going with this.
But I know that I need to make some changes and try to figure out how to be consistent
with those changes.
And that's where I'm really struggling because when I go to the gym and I do healthy things,

(03:21):
obviously I feel great about it.
Yeah.
And it's not just I feel great because, hey, I did it.
I feel great because it's releasing all of those happy hormones.
It's releasing all the endorphins and all the good, the good juices.
At one point in my life, I was going to the gym like three days a week and I didn't see
it.
I did not see any changes in myself really back then because, you know, when you're standing

(03:42):
in front of a mirror every day, you don't really see it until you actually go back and look
at photos.
Yep.
And the other day, camera across a photo of me that I took from the back because I was
taking a photo of my haircut or something or like I dyed my hair.
I don't know.
And I look so skinny and I'm like, what?
Like that was like 2020.
It was January of 2020.
And I was like, at that point, I don't ever remember thinking I was thin or thinking I

(04:07):
was in shape at all.
But my arms and my back, I could see my waistline.
I was like, who is that person?
And then I was like, oh my God, gross.
Like I've changed a lot since 2020.
I didn't even really realize it.
Well for me, personally, I've tried every diet under the sun.
See I haven't.
I have.

(04:27):
And they never stick.
Yes.
The only thing that ever stuck for me was keto.
Now I don't think that it is recommended for long term to do it in the way that I did
it.
But any diet is going to work for any specific person long term.
I think it's supposed to be like you just try things and you mix it up.

(04:49):
So what I noticed about me when I would reach a plateau with keto, I would carb cycle.
What does that even, what does that mean?
For me, when I first started keto, it was like kind of the blanket statement, no more
than 20 carbs a day.
And so that was way too low for me.
I could not achieve that because even vegetables have carbs.

(05:10):
So I went to like 25 to 30 and lost so much weight very quickly.
And because that my, I needed to lose a lot of weight.
You know, I wasn't starting at, it wasn't like I wanted to like tone up and lose 20
pounds.
Like I really had like 100 pounds to go.
You know, I needed something drastic.
And when I would reach a plateau where I hadn't lost anything in like a week, not even like

(05:35):
a half a pound, then I started carb cycling.
And that means that for me, I took it as a carb dense meal once and I would eat it within
an hour.
I wasn't like grazing pizza and chips and shit all day.
I would eat like a baked potato with dinner, something that's very heavily dense in carbs.
I'd have popcorn, something that's more natural.

(05:59):
Like I wouldn't eat pizza or lasagna because once I am like an addict, once I taste that
shit, I'm all in or all out with everything.
So I would try to do something a little bit more natural to the earth, whole food based
kind of carb heavy, maybe sweet potatoes or even just like the air fryer fries.
That doesn't really send me into a spiral of diving into a fucking cake or something,

(06:23):
you know, like that.
So I would do something like that, but I'd eat it within with one meal and I'd eat it
all within an hour and I'm not going to like veer from that.
But that took me probably months before I would even start that because I needed to stay
away from that stuff for a while.
I had to put very strict boundaries and parameters around the things that I could or couldn't

(06:44):
eat because my brain does not work with moderation.
And so I would eat whatever I wanted within that box of boundaries.
Okay.
And I only counted my carbs for like the first three weeks to get a sense of exactly how
many carbs are in things.
After that, I never counted anything ever again and I was very successful with keto.

(07:06):
Soon as I came off of keto, I was dabbling in other things.
I would introduce things slowly back into my diet and I had gained about 20 pounds back
and kept it that way for years.
And I was happy with that.
I had no problem with the extra 20 pounds.
In fact, I didn't really like, I didn't want to be as skinny as I had gotten at one point.

(07:28):
It doesn't fit my body for what I like.
So I was very happy with the 20 pounds.
You look a little bit, not thick, but not stick thin.
It was fine.
But then after my daughter's accident, and I'm in the hospital for eight weeks eating
hospital cafeteria food and they're not exactly diet friendly.

(07:50):
We would go down to the cafeteria when she was in the rehab center every day.
We'd be eating like strawberry cheesecake cups that had like pound cake at the bottom,
whipped cream, strawberries and that juicy stuff.
More pound cake is layered.
I would always get the Oreo one that had like chocolate cake and Oreos pudding, chocolate
cake Oreos whipped cream pudding.
It was so good.
So she and I would get every day we'd go outside to the garden area and eat them and

(08:13):
enjoy it and I didn't care.
I'm in here with her.
This is what we're doing and I'm enjoying every second of it.
But then it's been a horrible cycle ever since.
Getting out of that routine because then once I was able to open my palette again to all
the choices in the world, I'm like, fuck that diet shit because for years I said no to cake

(08:40):
on my kids birthdays.
For years I said no to fucking everything and I'm over the diet shit.
Now currently because I gained like 40 pounds and I need to get my shit back together, but
I need to learn moderation.
I need to learn like being a calorie deficit and have everything available to me that I

(09:02):
could possibly want to eat within my calorie range for the day.
So I still have a boundary, but I've been doing really good for about three weeks.
I'm at the beginning today is the first day of my fourth, no second day of my fourth week
and I've lost 12 pounds.
And I don't notice it on me yet because obviously there's probably a lot of water weight.

(09:23):
I've been eating like shit up till now.
Okay.
So what are you doing to lose those 12 pounds?
I'm sticking within a calorie range.
So before this is just fucking balls to the wall, eat whatever I want whenever I want
and clearly if I'm gaining weight, I'm going over the allotted calories that my body needs
to maintain the weight I'm at.

(09:45):
So I'm gaining weight.
How do you keep track of that?
I do it on my fitness.
Yeah.
When it comes to doing anything with dieting and math, that's where I'm like, okay, you
lost me.
No, I'm done.
My fitness pals.
I got the one month free trial to see if I actually would use it and like it.
And then, um, and I paid 80 bucks and I get it for the year and you can get the free version.
The free version works just as good.

(10:06):
It's just, I like the barcode scanner because it makes it a lot easier to like scan it and
then put my weights in.
I have a scale I bought for 10 bucks at Walmart digital scale.
I weigh everything.
So you know, for dinner, I'll have like seven ounces of shredded chicken.
When you shred your chicken, holy shit, you get so much more chicken because when you chew
it, it's feel like when I chew it and swallow it, even though it's the same amount of ounces,

(10:29):
it fills up the plate more.
So I'm not eating as much rice or potatoes or whatever.
I'm filling it up more with the denser protein options.
I'm trying to make like smaller, like different choices.
And you know, for like a long time, I did intermittent fasting.
For me now, I'm not, I like breakfast.
I'm eating my oatmeal most of the time, or I usually make like some kind of omelet from

(10:52):
at home.
So that's the thing, like I'm the kind of person where I don't, I don't, I'm not the
kind of person who gorges all day.
Like I don't snack all day.
I don't eat.
I really don't feel like I eat a lot.
I'm just, I just know I'm not eating the highest quality things I could be eating.
So like in the morning, I'm not a big breakfast person.
I'll have my, my coffee and then I'll be fine with that until like one o'clock in the afternoon.

(11:15):
And then I'll kind of look and see, okay, what do we have?
I can whip up something for lunch.
Most of the time it's going to be leftovers.
And most of the time it's very protein dense.
Most of the time it's like just a chicken breast or chicken Caesar salad or.
Right.
You got to watch that dressing.
I know, I know, but that's like, that's like one of my, one of my favorite, like easy meals
is the chicken Caesar salad.
But most of the time is it is leftovers because we don't like to waste in my house.

(11:39):
And then we'll eat just like a regular dinner, but like dinner a lot of the time with my
picky ass kids is going to be stuff like steak quesadillas and burgers and pizza.
And you know, it's really hard to find things that I can feed everybody, but I've come to
the point now that I have cooked separately so often that I'm like fine.
If I have to cook separately still, if I have to cook separately for us and for them at

(12:02):
this point, I've been doing it without wanting to, but basically just out of necessity that
I'm okay with it.
I'm just sad because I wasn't raised on healthy food.
So like I don't like a lot.
Like I can eat a lot of fruit, but fruit isn't necessarily the greatest thing to eat a lot
of.
Right.
You know, I mean, yes, it's natural sugar, but it's still sugar.

(12:25):
It's fiber, but like I'm definitely missing key things in my diet.
I could even stand to eat more protein, but you know, it's like, I think about, I mean,
how expensive it is just to buy, just to buy a lot of meat.
You know what I mean?
It's very expensive.
And, but if you're trying to get quality meat too.
True.
But if you're cutting out all the other noise that you're eating, right, it may even out

(12:49):
in the end.
Yeah.
You know, be at the same time.
I'm still buying all the same crap that I do for the kids.
And I feel like the majority of what I buy is for the kids anyway.
Right.
Because I'm making their breakfast.
I'm making their lunches.
I have to because their school doesn't have a cafeteria.
So, you know, it's like, I still have all the, I hate to say it, but I'm still having
to say it, but all the junk, you know, I buy the variety bag of chips.

(13:09):
I buy chips ahoy sometimes, you know, I buy stuff that you were raised on and now you're
having trouble.
But I mean, it's not the worst.
Like I don't, I lived on Campbell's chicken noodle soup and canned chef Boyardee when
I was a kid.
That's what I made for myself.
If I was hungry, that's what I went for.
And, you know, as far as like vegetables were concerned, I ate corn on the cob, which we

(13:34):
all know is pretty much useless.
It's not a vegetable.
It's not a vegetable and canned green beans.
One of them is delicious.
Let's just be real.
I, if you get the sweet corn though, has to be the right kind.
Oh yeah, with some butter and a little bit of salt.
Oh yes.
Mm, delicious.
Give it to me.
You bite into it, it squirts in your face.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Good stuff.
You're going to make vegetables dirty somehow.

(13:57):
I know.
Um, but you ate a lot of green beans.
Why?
Because your stepmom told us if we ate green beans or boobs would grow.
But clearly you ate plenty because it worked for you, but didn't work for me.
And I thought I ate a shitload of green beans.
Well, it caught up with you now.
It caught up with me now.
A little bit.
I, oh my gosh, I can eat like French style canned green beans are so fricking good.

(14:19):
Canned anything, any canned vegetable.
I don't know what it is.
Even canned peas.
I know you hate peas, but canned peas, so good.
Frozen peas, barf.
They're so dry inside and just so yucky.
I don't like, I didn't even like broccoli until you introduced it to me at your grandmother's
house when I was well into my twenties with some cheese on it.

(14:40):
Yeah.
I had never had broccoli with cheese before ever.
And I was like, this is wonderful.
The cheese makes everything better.
Well, happy trees.
Yeah.
Um, and I didn't even start eating tomatoes until I was well into adulthood either because
my mom hated tomatoes.
So it's like, I know like my taste can change and I can, I can adapt, but like, I don't
know, man, it's just, it's just hard.

(15:01):
Like my feel like my palate is just so boring.
Yeah.
It's just expanding it, I guess.
I don't know.
I mean, I'm down for whatever within reason.
And I don't know how to cook.
Like I, I'll try all kinds of shit if somebody else is preparing it.
Oh yeah.
If I'm out at a restaurant, whatever, I'll try, I'll try pretty much anything as long
as it's not like crazy spicy.

(15:22):
Right.
But I don't know how, I just don't know how to cook.
Like we stick to the same like handful of meals because I know that's what my kids will
eat.
Right.
And getting them to try anything is a nightmare.
See, I grew up in a dieting household.
I grew up on constant, try and different diets.
Hence the reason I am the way I am now.
Um, but my parents, they did the low fat diet multiple times.

(15:46):
Um, what was the big diet back then?
Atkins.
Atkins.
That's what it was.
But they did the low fat diet.
That was when my dad had the most success.
It was high protein, lower fat kind of diet.
That's where he had the most success.
Now they did buy, you know, all the low fat labeled food.
Yeah.
Low fat ranch, low fat and everything.
Yeah.

(16:06):
So we all know now that that's bullshit.
I keep hearing so much about like protein.
Protein is like, right.
So there's so much of an emphasis on getting your protein and getting the right fat.
So like if you're going to eat chicken, they say don't eat chicken breast.
Right.
Like if you're doing a carnivore diet, stick with chicken thighs.
That's a lot of fat.
But they, that's, but if you're in, in the absence of carbohydrates, you're going to
need a lot of fat.
Exactly.

(16:26):
That's how what keto is.
It's keto is a high fat, moderate protein, low carb.
Those are your macros.
Hyper or high fat.
Cause with, and some, some people will say that too much protein will then just turn
into like glucose or something in your body.
So it's just an overabundance of protein.
Isn't that great for you or something?
But that's, some people say that, but everybody's got a theory.

(16:49):
Right.
And then there's also like blood type diets too.
Right.
People with O blood type like me and you thrive on carnivore thrive on meat.
Like I would have no problem with carnivore for a time.
Right.
It's not something that I'm interested in making into a full lifestyle forever unless
I saw something positive or if I felt great and my blood work was great or something,

(17:12):
but you know, there's something to be said about cycling through different modes of dieting.
I did read something one time and there's a name for it, but it's essentially like creating
habits with things you already do.
It's like habit clumping or something.
I don't remember something like that.
Like habit clumping.
I don't know.

(17:33):
But this guy said that he really wanted to get more fit and he didn't really have a lot
of time.
So he was finding things that he does it every day, multiple times a day in fitting in like
pushups.
So he knows he brushes his teeth twice a day.
So he's going to do 10 pushups after he brushes his teeth every day, twice a day, but the

(17:53):
end of the day is got 20 pushups.
So it's kind of like you're clumping together your habits with things you already do.
So you're not really wasting any time or having to like squeeze in more time.
And so I had this whole theory.
I pee a lot.
So every time I pee after I pee, I'm going to do five squats by the end of the day.

(18:16):
I might have 50 squats that I didn't have had I not done that.
And I do it.
And I do it.
And then I'd be like, oh man, I feel so great.
And then the next time I pee or maybe four times later I pee and I'm like, oh shit, I
owe myself 15 squats.
Because I forgot.
See, that would be me.
That's exactly what I would do.

(18:37):
I'll do this for like two days and then I completely forget and I never pick it back up.
Thank you.
I know.
I'm terrible.
I'm not the most horrible human being.
No, you're not.
That's the kind of shit that I do.
I'm just, and I don't like making excuses for myself, but like I do feel like I'm very
much like the undiagnosed ADHD and those weird little things that like I'll like get excited

(19:00):
about and then just drop it.
Yeah.
I think it's the same shit.
Like I'm jealous of people who are consistent with everything.
They'll make a decision to do something and then they'll do it and they'll see it through
and I'm like, fuck, I wish I was like that.
It's like an internal, it's a mental battle of trying to make that decision and it's hindering
me.
Yeah.

(19:20):
I'm in the same boat, dude.
I don't know why you came to me with this.
I'm right here with you.
I'm right here with you.
I don't fuck with you.
Oh, it's so fucking frustrating.
Today we welcome Mary Asaro, mother of one and author of Shelly and Friends, a children's
book series about mental health and showing kindness to others using an interactive narrative

(19:41):
between reader and child.
Hi, Mary.
Thank you very much for having me.
Happy to have you here.
Yes.
All right.
So tell us a little bit about Shelly and Friends.
Oh my gosh.
This has been a dream.
It has helped me to really open up about issues that I've had and that I really feel kids

(20:03):
are struggling with right now from being isolated from COVID and having to do school from home
and not being able to see their friends and just feeling very sad.
So I came across a book series that could help with aunts, uncles, brothers, and sisters,

(20:23):
anybody who has the time to talk to them through various questions because I know that parents
are working full-time jobs or babysitter and sometimes the attention isn't there.
So through the book, anybody can read it to them.
Yeah, and it's so much better than just sitting down at the dinner table and saying, how was

(20:44):
your day?
Did you have a good day?
Right.
I've noticed with my kids too, what did you do in school today?
It's like they're there for seven hours and they just look at you with a good deer in
the headlights and they're like, math?
I don't know.
What did I do today?
It's like a running joke between me and my kids.
I'm like, okay, tell me about your day.
Every single second, start to finish and go.
And they're like, uh.

(21:04):
I totally relate to all of you because I do the same thing with Connor.
It's just like, hey, what did you do in school today?
I don't know, stuff?
Yeah.
Or I'm like, great.
What were your specials today?
I don't remember.
Right.
I feel like I'm talking to a wall.
Yeah, it's true.
And it's like, can I get anything out of you?

(21:26):
It's hard to do because we're busy and I can't think of things to ask and I have to do this
times four.
And I'm like, what did you learn, that's the one thing you learned today and it doesn't
have to be educational, one thing you learned.
You know?
I know.
My daughter told me this morning, she said, I said, one thing you learned yesterday, she
said that boys are mean and they expect the girl to do everything.

(21:56):
And I was like, okay, little context there.
She's 11.
That was a little old school.
I was brought up with that.
She's 11.
And I'm like, what do you mean?
She's like, well, I'm in this culinary class and I'm in a group of all boys and I'm the
only girl and they expect me to do everything because I'm the girl.
And I'm like, well, let's look at what their parents are raising them like because in my
house, in my house, that is not the case.

(22:17):
We are a full time team.
And that's not, you know, I'm like, do you see that at home?
She's like, no.
And I'm like, there you go.
Now this is a great example of who not to choose for a life partner for yourself in the future.
Yes.
You know, it needs to be a team work.
You know, the father and mother need to work together.

(22:37):
Yeah.
Some have bigger strengths than others in certain areas.
Oh yeah.
Absolutely.
Yeah.
Well, I've had a deal with that too.
My mom was always used to doing everything, cleaning, cooking, doing dishes, you name
it, taking care of our pets that we had.
We had cats and taking care of them.
And it was all on her.
Did she work too?

(22:59):
Not at the beginning.
She was at home.
My dad did pretty well.
He was in real estate.
He did pretty well for himself.
But then when it dropped, and then she ended up having to go back to work.
Yeah.
You know.
And then on top of it having to do everything else.
Yeah.
Yeah, that's not cool.
Women are amazing.
They really are.
We are amazing.

(23:19):
Yes, indeed.
So tell us about your little one about your son.
O'Connor's awesome.
He is a very smart kid.
He's got a lot of things.
I feel like he doesn't use it very often.
But he's got quite a gift of music too.
I got to see him play violin.
And it was just amazing.

(23:41):
Because that's like one of my favorite instruments.
Yeah.
And how old is he?
He's nine.
He's playing violin at nine?
He's playing violin.
That's awesome.
He's gotten to be in a Christmas production at the church.
And he did really well with a mix of other kids.
And he's got a good friend who plays the cello.
And he does really well with that too.

(24:01):
I was brought up in music too.
So we're just all musical.
My husband used to play trumpet.
And I was vocals.
I was an choir, which I missed by the way.
And he's probably on his way there to being musically talented himself.
That's awesome.
That's really cute.
And it's a good outlet for him because I don't have to look at that stupid iPad all

(24:23):
the time.
To all the moms out there, I totally get it.
We always want to rip that thing off and throw it in the garbage.
But sometimes it's our saving grace too.
Correct.
Yes.
And I hate to say that too.
It's like a love hate relationship.
I have a love hate relationship with an iPad.
And I always remember being, because Victoria and I actually both worked in the service

(24:45):
industry and restaurants for a really long time.
And before we had kids, you see the tables with the parents and their kids with their
tablets and the iPads when they were like first coming out.
And we were like, I'll never be that parent.
Oh, I can't believe they have their.
They don't even engage in conversation with each other.
Totally right.
Totally judging.
And then it's like, yeah, we're all the most amazing parents before we're parents.
I was.

(25:06):
We have these beautiful ideas.
I will say that forever.
I was the best parent in the world before I had children.
So I guess we're all guilty of it.
We're all guilty.
100%.
I just, the one of my pet peeves is when you go to a restaurant, everyone is on them.
Well, every, yeah, I don't like that.
I don't.
I don't like that.
When adults want to have a conversation and they can't get a word in with each other.
Yes.

(25:26):
Okay.
I totally, I get it.
They totally respect that decision.
What's it like having one kid and then like you're their whole world, that you're their
entertainment, they're their play friend, everything.
It was very difficult.
Yeah.
I know when it was just me and him because my husband went back to work after, you know,
I'm turning to leave.
I was really bored.

(25:46):
I bet.
Yeah.
And I, and I think the Lord that my parents, you know, not that very far of a drive and
they had a pool, so it was nice that I was able to go over there and my mom got to, you
know, do some grandma, grandma time.
And it was, yeah, I was tough at first trying to give him the play and we have a whole big
room to himself.

(26:06):
He loves Legos.
Mine too.
My son was 16 months old and my second one was born.
So I don't have like, I don't have experience with having a kid.
During the time I was figuring out some things about myself mentally.
When I was having my first kid, I was starting to get very anxious and having a lot of anxiety
a lot.

(26:27):
My sister was like, he got a problem.
You gotta go see somebody.
I was like, okay.
And then when I went to go into therapy later on, I realized I had a problem.
I didn't really get a really great therapist.
I don't know if there is such thing as a great therapist.
Did you get into therapy after you had your baby or was it during your pregnant?

(26:49):
It was, after I had Connor, it was a little while before I ended up having therapy.
I could tell my husband could tell there was some change in me.
And I could tell just kind of pinpoint what it was.
I just know my dad had a lot of anxiety too, but he never did anything with it.
He thought psychology was garbage.
I think a lot of men do.
Yeah.

(27:10):
Yeah.
Old generations and current generations.
But I mean, it got better in time.
Once he got older, he got into things, we played, then he got into school, which was
awesome.
Did you deal with any postpartum?
No.
No postpartum?
I praise the Lord for that, yes.
But I did go through depression.
But it wasn't postpartum depression?

(27:32):
No.
Okay.
It was just regular depression.
Okay.
I had zero friends.
I was new to the area because I've been married only a couple years and I didn't have anybody.
Yeah.
So it was a lot, new town.
Very isolating.
Very isolating.
Like a situational depression rather than like a brain imbalance.

(27:52):
Yeah.
It was more of that, just being separated.
I'm always at home.
May I have to say I was at home until I, in my beginning thirties.
I was, I took college and went home.
My parents were really great about it, helped me out with that and did my studies and stuff.
But then relationships were very hard.
Yeah.
How did you meet your husband?

(28:13):
Well, he, I met him through high school.
Oh, cool.
So you guys go way back?
Yeah.
We go way back through sophomore year and world history class.
He was A and I was B for alphabetical order.
Yeah.
That's how it was at the beginning.
And then, you know, we just all like sat wherever we wanted afterwards.

(28:33):
Yeah.
We became pretty good friends.
And then throughout the years we separated and just gotten to, we all gotten our clicks.
Right.
You know?
Like guys went their separate ways.
We did college.
He did his own thing.
You guys kind of found each other again later.
Yes.
How that happened.
Yes.
Okay.
So I was bored and I told my mom, I said, Hey, what, when we go to Target.
So she's like, okay, all right.

(28:54):
So we went and we went walking around and, well, behold, there he was.
So we chatted for a little bit and I was at the time kind of seeing somebody.
I was so happy to see him though.
So you kind of always have like a little crush on him?
Yes.
Yeah.
Yes.
And then we just, we connected on Facebook and we started talking and one thing led

(29:16):
to another.
It was awesome.
And dating.
It was great.
It's got a wonderful job and I'm very grateful for that.
That's awesome.
Smart.
We tell you in your thirties.
I'm already by past my thirties.
I know, but wait till like, your facial expression when you said that.

(29:37):
Yeah.
Thirties were great.
My twenties were the worst.
Yeah.
The twenties were not very good.
I've kind of heard that too from people like everybody overhypes your twenties.
Like you're so like figuring stuff out.
I don't personally believe that anybody is an adult at 18 or 19.

(29:58):
Oh my God.
No, like I would say at minimum like 25.
They say your brain's not even developed fully until you're 25.
I thought I was an adult.
Oh yeah.
I was like fully, I know.
I mean, you could drive.
I mean, like I have all the freedom in the world.
I drive and I can vote.
But we could also, we could buy cigarettes.
We can go gambling.
Yeah.
We could do all that back then.
You can't do that now.
No.
Cambelling maybe, but not cigarettes.

(30:18):
Really?
No, we have to be 21 now.
Oh.
Yeah.
Not that I smoked, but you know.
But I don't know.
Right.
That was like the thing I did when I turned 18.
We went to the casino.
I went and bought a pack of cigarettes that I didn't open.
I just, just to do it.
Just to do it.
Yeah.
Just to be able to do it.
It was awesome.
So stupid, but you know, gotta do what you gotta do.

(30:39):
Yeah.
And then you're so freaking broke in your 20s.
Or at least we were.
Yeah.
You know, it's like.
20s.
You just, it's a mess.
You do so many stupid things, but you're just, it's just a molding time in your life
to figure out how to be without your parents.
But it's so fun also, right?
There's so much more fun to be had because you were yet jaded by the world.

(31:01):
You know, you haven't gotten there yet.
There's not a lot of, not nearly as many responsibilities yet.
And you also, it's like an ignorance is bliss.
You have no idea what's coming.
So you can just be like, yeah, let's go to the club and pee behind dumpsters.
Like we would never do that now.
I mean, I would be behind a dumpster if I had to.

(31:22):
However, it's not my plan and I'm not getting shwaysted in a line for a club.
Right.
So I'm not peeing behind dumpsters because that's just not going to be what I'm doing.
Right.
Okay.
So tell us, tell us about, you know, your background and anything that you feel like

(31:45):
kind of led you to becoming an author.
So I have an art degree and I haven't really used it in a while because everything is so
digital now.
But I also find that with drawing and working with colors just on paper, I feel like is
out of the ordinary these days.

(32:08):
It's all about making the money and having it look good, having it be moving around,
all that stuff.
But I really feel that, I mean, there's just like art that way back in the day that's
popular.
Why can't I make something like that?
You know?
So anyway, how the book started was I saved a turtle from crossing the road when my son
was in the car.
And it's just like I started having ideas like ever since after that.

(32:32):
And you know, I just got this, my heart was just saying, write a book.
I'm like, how am I going to do this?
I was horrible English class.
But I said, well, all I know is I had to come up with the idea of what I was going to do
with a book, but I wanted the book to be different.
So I did research on a lot of kids books and I was pretty sad to see, especially in activity

(32:54):
books, it's just busy work.
There's no like connection or anything.
There's no talking.
There's no anything fun.
It's just to keep them busy.
So I was like, what can I do different?
And I was like, you know what I always wanted when I was younger was to have someone when
I was going through something to talk about with various questions that could open up

(33:16):
a whole can of worms, I guess maybe you can say.
It just blew up from there.
And then I came up with the story.
I had all the Florida, you know, who's had a book with a turtle and a manatee.
I mean, I don't think I've seen any books with that.
So as a born, raised in Florida, I decided to make a Florida book series called Chilling

(33:39):
Friends.
And then based on interactive to have a conversation, connect through questions, because I just
feel like with the school systems right now, they have no money for therapy for these kids.
So it's like if they have a problem at school, maybe someone's bullied or unkind to them,

(34:01):
you know, they have no one to go to.
And I just felt like...
Or they're afraid.
Or they're afraid to go to somebody.
And I feel that that's the problem.
You know, we've got to stop having our kids be afraid.
You know, we can't live in fear anymore.
We can't.
So you know, like I told my son, I'm like, look, if you ever have a problem, you need

(34:22):
to talk about it.
Don't hide it.
You got to talk about it.
So things that when I went through therapy a lot when I was younger, I opened up and
it felt great.
Like all this anxiety of stuff, of talking about things, it really helps you release
whatever's bothering you.

(34:43):
And I want kids to feel free to not be afraid and to talk about what's going on with them.
Because they could be helping somebody else.
Yeah.
And if they don't, it's just going to manifest in different ways like behavioral problems
and problems at home.
So in the book, in my books, there throughout the story, there's a section through one page,

(35:06):
there's a question.
And after the story, like, okay, well, who could you ask for help in need when you need
it?
Who would you ask?
A conversation getter.
Helping kids to open up and you get to know them.
Yeah.
Did your son have any involvement and input in the characters or the development of the

(35:29):
story?
Yes.
So the first book, I had a hard time with a villain name.
My first one had the water moccasin.
I know we don't see him very often, but I know they're in the pond.
Oh yeah.
I just saw one a couple of weeks ago at the slu.
Correct.
And I had to come up with a villain and I couldn't think of a name.

(35:50):
And so my son's in the back of the car.
I'll never forget it.
He's just like playing with a whole bunch of names.
And all of a sudden he came up with Sinesse.
I'm like, I have never heard of that before.
It's so, it sounds so awesome.
The snake is Sinesse.
I loved it.
With the S.
I loved it.
Yeah.

(36:10):
And so my son, I wanted my son to have fun with it.
So he got to name a character and he was all excited about that.
So he's been like so supportive of the books and stuff like that.
So like when I started doing TikTok and stuff, he was all excited because he got to put in
his two sons for the book too.
And it's just been a wonderful journey because it's been, as a mom and a son, it's been a

(36:30):
really good relationship to know that he's involved.
Yeah.
And having fun with it.
Do you sit down and read it to him like religiously?
No.
Not religiously.
Is it his, one of his favorites?
I think he just enjoys the creativity part of the book.
And the fact that he had an input in it.

(36:53):
And he named some of the other new characters in my new book.
The main characters name is Otto.
And then he ends up meeting a friend named Moby because he's new to the school.
Meeting new friends can be difficult.
And he, Otto talks about his friend Gracie, which is the manatee, you know, and then he

(37:15):
feels like he's being watched too at the same time because then you've got this crab.
Then I think of a name for a crab.
So I was just like, well, I wanted him to be kind of like slick, you know, because crabs
walk sideways.
Right.
So I was just like, I think I'm going to name him Sly.
That's cute.
So I named him Sly.
So do you have like themes for each book that's going to be in this series?

(37:39):
So the first book does lead into the second book.
But yes, I do have some themes.
The first one was about anxiety.
Otto's mom gets trapped in a fishing net on a boat.
She is terrified that she won't be able to get home to her kids because she just had
laid her turtles aside.
And then you had the snake who, you know, would eat them.

(38:01):
And then had friends to come together towards the end to help her to get back.
And then you had an Osprey name Ozzie.
By the way, how I got that name was my husband likes Ozzie Osbourne.
So that kind of came into the mix of things because everyone always wants to know how
I came up with names.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So, um, he's a little big, big part of helping out, but it ends up so awesome towards the

(38:25):
end.
It's just realizing that we all are going to feel like we're trapped.
But we have to realize that there's hope that we're going to get out of it and get home.
Yeah.
Yeah.
With the help of others.
With the help of others.
It's just a human thing.
We all go through that at some point.
So maybe we need these books too as the adult reading them.
And I actually wanted to put a little bit of spin on that too because I want the parents

(38:49):
to be able to share their input, maybe through questions that they have.
And then, you know, maybe the kid can read it to the parent and then the parent can't
answer the questions.
That's a good idea.
So are your questions like, um, are they more like personalized questions or are they like,
you know, you read, because we're going to hear an excerpt from the books.

(39:09):
I'm really looking forward to that and see how this works.
Um, so are the questions like, you know, what would you do in this situation?
Or are they like, you know, they're not the type, I'm imagining they're not the type of
questions that you're going to get in like a school book where they're like, okay, now
where did this take place and what are the characters names?
It's not like that.
It's a relationship to what's going on in the story.

(39:31):
Yes.
So, um, I have a question, whatever's going on in the story.
So if you want, I can do an excerpt right now.
Sure.
Sure.
If you got one ready, let's go.
All right.
So I'm going to start on the second page.
After class, Moby asked Otto, what do you think about the teacher?
Otto said, Dr. Kransky seems nice.

(39:51):
I think I'm going to like having her as my teacher.
As they walked along, Moby asked, who's the manatee?
Oh, that's my friend Gracie.
Otto replied, we've been friends since Gracie helped my mom who was caught in a fishing
net.
Hmm.
Moby, I feel like we're being watched.
Whispered Otto.
So here's one of the questions I asked, who has been your favorite teacher so far and

(40:16):
why?
Sly the Crab spotted his best friend Finley and eagerly shared, Hey, Finley.
Guess what?
I saw a turtle and I'm thinking of setting up a trap to catch him.
Good idea.
I said, Finley, they'll be good to eat.
What is the name of your bestie?

(40:36):
So because villains always have like bodyguards or their sidekick type of thing.
Right.
So I wanted to add that into the book.
And then I'll read one more excerpt here.
It says, when Otto got home from school, his mom, Shelly asked him how his first day went.
Otto excitedly answered.
I had a great day.
I met a new friend named Moby and my teacher seems really nice.

(40:58):
However, Otto had something on his mind that worried him.
He told his mom that he saw something hiding behind a rock when he was coming home from
school.
Shelly appreciated that her son was brave enough to tell her and said, Otto, please stay
alert and tell the teacher if you see anything else.

(41:20):
The question I ask is, what do you think it's important to tell an adult if something is
wrong?
So these are just a couple of excerpts through every situation you need to have a question
to have the kids help with that situation, see what they would do.
Right.
I mean, you might think it's helpful for sure.
And what do you think is the appropriate age group for your book?

(41:43):
I would say beginning of reading like kindergarten or just their development and reading and
understanding.
When did your books come out?
My first book came out in the summer of 2021.
My newest book, the second one just came out around just before Christmas.
It was December 14th, 2024.

(42:04):
And it's been a great ride.
I hope it becomes successful because it's something that's very well needed.
We've been to reach out to the schools.
I know there's book bands, but this one is not like any other books.
So how has the reception been so far?
So I have some pretty good friends that I've been with and acquaintances and they've bought

(42:25):
the book and they love the layout.
They love the color and they love the questions and they find it very helpful.
And I think it's a great book.
I remember when we had talked to you during the pre-interview, I mentioned that you were
doing readings.
Are you doing readings at Barnes & Noble or the library?
Well, I tried to do one in December, but there just wasn't enough kids.

(42:46):
And I'm thinking that's another problem I might have is the fact that everything is
so available on electronic.
And so kids aren't really coming out into bookstores.
So I think the only thing how I would get a reading is if I pretty much went into the
schools instead of in bookstores because everyone, it's like an adult getaway.

(43:07):
So it's like, you know, they get to go and find a book.
Library Rare actually see a lot of kids there in bookstores.
What about the library?
Just getting your name out there.
Yes.
I need to reach out to the library.
I have before, they have some kind of a thing you can download your book in.
So I just haven't done that.
Well, I mean, you can do, I know that our libraries here, they have like a monthly printout of

(43:32):
all the events that are coming up.
Then they could put it in their little leaflet newsletter.
A lot of parents go to the library for free events.
Oh yeah.
Well, I would, I think anything free, I think is great.
That's available to a lot of parents, especially once we've had four kids.
True that.
True that.
Mama loves free.

(43:52):
I think we all do.
Even if you got a ton of money, nothing wrong with free.
Yeah.
I think you should still take, yeah, advantage of that.
Money or not.
I mean, definitely try Naples too.
Go to the libraries in Naples.
You might get more book sales.
Well, that's kind of like where I was and that's what was awesome about it.
Yeah.
There's an estero, which is kind of in the middle.

(44:13):
Right.
Barnes & Noble is having a grand opening.
Oh, good idea.
They were actually there when I was talking with the managers.
Hopefully they think of me still.
They saw me, I could possibly join them and that's supposed to open up in the end of January.
Yeah.
Yeah, that's definitely when you want to follow up on that.
That's a great idea.
Oh yeah.
Absolutely.

(44:34):
So, bringing it back to starting the book and the motivation to start the book.
I know that you said you had done some research on books that don't necessarily have this
kind of vibe.
What was your motivation to get to the writing?
I know you had mentioned in the pre-interview that your son had ADHD.

(44:55):
Is that a common theme in the book or does that have anything, is that your motivation
for writing?
Yeah, actually when I started writing the book, my main focus was I want kids to open
up.
I mentally went through so much and when I got the help, that was my mission was I want

(45:16):
kids and I want parents to connect together and talk about things.
Put the technology aside.
Talk to your children because it's going to help them in the end.
Yeah.
As they get older.
I felt it very helpful with my son because he talks to me a lot about things.
How has your relationship changed since you've been around it?

(45:37):
It's been good.
Yeah.
It's been good.
Yeah.
As soon as he gets in the car, I always ask him about his day and what did you do today?
Because I want to make him feel that I care.
You know?
And instead of just like getting the car and do a tablet or whatever, I want to have that
connection.

(45:58):
I want to know what's going on with him.
Did you grow up in a house that had open dialogue like this for you to kind of pull
from?
My childhood was not great.
When my older sister left to college, it was just myself, my parent, my dad was a workaholic.
My mom had to do a lot of stuff that she didn't want to do, but they did it to survive.

(46:20):
Yeah.
Yeah.
But it was tough.
It was very tough.
I had like maybe close acquaintances as not much friends.
I'm not trying to depress anybody, but I just felt like my life was very solo a lot of the
time.
So I was doing things a lot by myself.
How much older was your sister?
She's about three and a half years.

(46:41):
Okay.
So that's tough when you're like used to growing up with her and then all of a sudden she's
not there.
That's tough.
She left and then she didn't come back.
Yeah.
I had a lot to, my head was wrapped around like, what is going on?
No one's telling me anything.
I mean, I'm the youngest.
So I've just felt out of the loop on a lot of things.

(47:02):
And then eventually when I got older, I found out why.
There were just some things that were going on at home and they just did not want to get
me involved.
As you age, you start to understand more.
Oh yeah.
Absolutely.
I was like my best friend, she's helped me out through everything.
And then I felt, I felt free to finally do the book when my dad passed because he passed

(47:26):
I think in 2020 and he had cancer.
It was sad because he just, he was ready to go.
He didn't want to take drugs.
He didn't want to take anything.
He just wanted to go.
One of the thing is I felt freedom to finally tell my story and to share it with kids.
I can finally talk about it.
Did you discuss this in therapy at all?
Or I mean, just figure it out on your own of why it was your dad's passing that made

(47:50):
you feel free?
What was kind of holding you back while he was alive?
I guess he was always very hard to talk to.
He was a very hard man.
It was always about work, always work.
But did you feel like if you wrote the book that he would have something negative to
say or that he would judge you about it or anything like that?
Okay.
So I was kind of hoping he might be a little supportive.
It was a couple of months when I told him finally, hey dad, guess what?

(48:13):
I'm writing a book.
Oh, you're writing a book?
It was just repeating the question back to me, but it was in a, like, great.
Like I don't really believe you.
I don't think you're going to do it.
Yeah, yeah, like something like that.
And I remember talking to my mom and told her what happened.
She's like, that's horrible.
He didn't feel very supportive.

(48:34):
I've never felt very supportive from him at all throughout most of my life anyway.
I know when I tell my mom, if I get support, she was ecstatic because they love reading
books.
Of course, my mom loves reading like thrillers and stuff.
But it's not only that, it's like a mom, if my kid comes to me and tells me they're
writing a book, how awesome.
Right.

(48:54):
Like I don't even care if the book is, it might be crap in the eyes of other people.
But in the eyes of the mother.
Of course.
I think it's like all art forms with your children.
I know.
Like your kid art, a kid art is the best.
I know.
I love it.
Oh, sweet.
My daughter writes me a note last night and it's like a poem about how much she loves
me.

(49:14):
And I'm like, okay, I'm going to have to go buy a frame because it is going on the wall.
My daughter tells me she writes songs.
She showed me a couple of songs that she wrote.
I'm like, I didn't, I had no idea you even had that in you.
I'm like, that's so cute.
I love this.
You know, another thing is my son, since I've had the journey of a book, he's been drawing
a lot too.

(49:35):
So I've gotten the answers of him drawing too.
I'm sharing the love of art with him.
I'm sharing the love of art with him.
Yes.
I have a client of mine who has a doctorate in literature and another doctorate in something
else, but he's a director of HR.
He doesn't do it.
He does it for money, right?
He doesn't do it.
Because a lot of, most of the time, art doesn't really bring a lot of money in.

(49:57):
And he has written so many books, mostly a poetry himself.
But he works with his kids.
They write, they have a whole series of books.
They created a character together.
They self-published on Amazon.
I think he's got a sale.
And it doesn't matter.
It's all about putting out the work.
So he's like, my kids are going to know that dad, and that's what they did.

(50:19):
He's a single dad and they do art stuff together.
They do art, like not just drawing and making books.
That's the one aspect of their art.
But he's like the most interesting artist.
I'll call him and he's on, he's like doing all of this stuff with his kids.
He's like, oh, we had some extra, you know, like the trays that come at the bottom of
like a frozen pizza, like the cardboard circle things.

(50:42):
He's like, oh, we had a couple of those lying around.
We have some dryer lint and we have mustard and all this.
Some baked stuff with.
He paints.
That's awesome.
And does like these thick paintings.
And he pours some polyurethane on it and lets it dry and it adds more layers.
And because the polyurethane is clear, you can see the depth in his stuff.

(51:04):
And the pictures don't do it justice.
He came here to visit his house.
He has a house here that I manage.
They got a couple of canvases from the garage that had other paintings on them and they
just covered them up and did like the weirdest stuff.
They had, um, there was some charcoal left at the bottom of the grill that they smashed
up and put in there, poured polyurethane, let it dry, put more layers and he hung them

(51:26):
on the wall at the house and looking at them, it is so interesting to see the depth and
you can see the texture of everything.
And just seeing his kids were just doing it.
Paint same clothes.
Like they don't care.
They're just like, like true, like artists.
It's really interesting.
That is probably like one thing I love about art is art can also reflect on how you're

(51:48):
feeling for sure or what you've been through.
That's why I love about it.
It's very, very free.
It's probably why I love it so much.
Yeah.
And speaking of that, tell us a little bit about the artwork in the book because I believe
it's all yours.
Yes.
All right.
I am the writer and illustrator of Shellian Friends.
Um, I did this all on my own.
I just, I like to draw this time I use water colors because I wanted it to have a soft

(52:14):
theme to a sensitive subject and bring it a little, I, I observed a lot of things around
Florida like the sunsets and the water and the colors and the sand.
I wanted it to try and be accurate.
So I didn't realize that an enemy of a turtle is one of them is a crab.
So that's why I try to kind of keep my books accurate to the wildlife that's out there.

(52:40):
Water colors and it ended up really brightening up the book a lot.
So I was, I was very happy how it all came out and came together.
Yeah.
I could like, we could see it and it's very cute.
So let me just, just to be clear, Shellian Friends is your first book?
Yes.
Okay.
So my second book is called Shellian Friends.
Like I said, that one, the subject of that one is for anxiety.

(53:01):
And then my second book has to do about being unkind.
I wanted to use bully because I was actually bullied, but I don't want to use bully.
I use unkind because I don't like using that word.
I just feel like the main thing that I was bringing out in this book is why are we not

(53:21):
talking to the person who's being unkind?
True.
Because they're being unkind to you for a reason.
So that in my book, it's not technically a stranger to you because they're like in
your class or whatever, but we need to find out why is this person being unkind to me?
And I feel like we need to be talking to them and helping them because we could have them

(53:46):
open up what's been going on with them at home.
Maybe they got, maybe their parents that are not paying attention to them.
They're like, I'm going to go pay attention to this kid.
I'm just harassing them.
It's because they probably need attention.
And I think that's a lot what's happening right now.
We got parents who are working full-time jobs.
They could barely make it.
We need to be paying attention to them.

(54:06):
We need to be being kind to them.
That's a lot in my book is basically showing kindness to everyone, even if it's the meanest
kid in the room because, well, they're trying to tell you something.
Yeah.
The meanest kid in the room usually needs the most kindness.
That's what I'm saying.
So I'm trying to let kids know that we need to show kindness even to the meanest person

(54:27):
in the room because there's something going on with them.
Right.
And it doesn't love your enemies.
It does not mean to accept the behavior of that person though, like not just be the
doormat of somebody.
You need to walk away if this person isn't being kind to you.
And then eventually they'll get it.
Hopefully.
We can always hope that they don't come out and do stuff right exactly.

(54:50):
But I really feel I was trying to make a true message in the book, like, person's being
unkind to you.
Either you can walk away from the subject or you can be like, why are you being so mean
to me?
Like approaching them about it.
They might need a friend.
Yeah.
They might be going through some tough stuff in here.
Instead they're just like harassing you.
Well, they haven't been given the tools on how to deal with what they're going through.

(55:11):
And that's the problem.
Yeah.
That's the problem.
So that's a lot in my book.
I thought through talking about it and letting kids know at an early age that, you know,
we're all going through something.
All of us, even if you're not the bully or the unkind person, we're all going through
something.
Even the adults, even your parents.
Exactly.

(55:31):
That's what I said.
Within the book, switch it around, kids.
Read it to your parents.
You need to also read it to your parents because you would be interested to find out what they
have to say about things in their past.
That's what the book can be also.
You can switch it around.
I like that.
Yeah, I like that too.
Because then you get to know your parents.
That's right.
And how they were brought up.
And then you get to know them.

(55:52):
So what other themes do you have brewing for the next few books?
The series is going to be five books.
So we have anxiety.
We have being unkind.
Next one, I think I'm thinking about writing about is loneliness.
I have felt that a lot of my life.
So that's going to be probably the next book.
Maybe a big store that's going to be brewing.

(56:14):
Because in Florida, we deal with a lot of storms.
Storms are also a sign of whatever's going on with you.
Right.
Yeah, you can mix the, you can merge the themes for sure.
Correct.
So that's going to be my next one.
And then depression.
Loneliness and depression are two different things.
So I'm thinking about probably adding a little bit of that.

(56:35):
And then at the end, I'm thinking about putting it all together and it with something positive
forgiveness.
I like that.
Because I think we need, and I'm very guilty of it.
Anybody is, we need to forgive ourselves for all the emotions we have and realize that
we're human.
We need to let kids know that they're human.
They're all going to go through all these emotions and realize that they don't have

(56:58):
to do it alone.
Right.
So I just feel like it would be nice if we can forgive ourselves through all that emotions
that you've had.
The loneliness and the depression and stuff.
Because I had to go through it.
You love yourself.
You love yourself.
I think my daughter is going through something right now because she's kind of on that cusp
of almost going into puberty but not quite there yet.
She's having some bodily changes.

(57:20):
She hasn't started her menstrual cycle yet.
But she's, and she's nine, almost 10.
But emotionally, she's just always been, she's always been extra.
Since she was born, since she could talk, she's always been a little extra.
I can only imagine how she's going to be when she's a teenager and she actually does go
through full puberty because of how much she is at this point and how much she has been.

(57:42):
With her emotion, sometimes she's just straight up like, I don't know why I'm like this.
And it's hard.
And you're just like, honey, when she talks about how you don't understand how stressed
I am.
And I'm like, oh girl, if you only knew.
If you only knew, exactly.
But it's hard because in those moments, I had a similar situation with one of my girls

(58:04):
that is not extra.
My 11 year old is like the opposite of extra.
It's like pulling teeth to get her to open up and not, you know, be a little extra.
Like tell me what's going on.
You know, she's got a lot of anxieties.
But she too said to me that she's like, I just never feel like I'm at peace.
And I'm like, that's deep.
That is very deep.
That's what I said.

(58:24):
I'm like, dang girl.
She's really smart and just very like, I don't know, man.
She's good.
I don't know.
She's just telling me how she feels and she worries and she festers on things.
It's like anticipatory anxiety where she, for example, they just started a new semester
at school and classes are going to change.
She's two classes.
She's swapping out.

(58:46):
But her new PE class, first class of the day is on the first floor of building one.
And she's then got to go to second period on the third floor of building two, on opposite
sides of both buildings, start to finish.
And she's got to be at the other side in three minutes.
And she's the whole Christmas break thinking about different routes she can take.
And she can't get sleep.

(59:07):
She's like, I'm so stressed out.
And I'm like, you know, it's going to work out.
You're going to get there.
They wouldn't give you the schedule if they didn't know you couldn't do it.
And she's like, I know, and it's weird because like in the moment when I'm doing it, I'm
not worried at all.
But getting to that point, she's so concerned.
And first day of the new schedule was yesterday and I came home and said, how'd it go?

(59:29):
She goes, it worked out like you said it would.
I was fine.
And I said, see, now this is a pattern that's going to happen in your life.
You're going to be anxious about something and you're going to figure out that it works
out in the end.
And eventually your brain is going to start catching up and not worrying so much because
you're just going to be able to start saying to yourself, it worked out last time.
Hopefully it'll work out this time.

(59:50):
And like, let it go.
And I said, it just takes time.
You know, she's like, I just don't know why I'm like this.
Yeah.
I just thought her was, gosh, sometimes she also like internalizes a lot of things too
where it seems like on the surface most of the time she's okay with being a jerk and
she's okay with be antagonizing.

(01:00:12):
In fact, it really appears like she truly enjoys it.
You know, she's a stir the pot kind of gal.
She's wants to know everybody's business all the time.
Girl after my own heart.
Yes.
And I'm like, you know, these qualities are going to be really the work for you in a different
scenario when you're a lot older.
But right now reel it in a little bit for me, please, reel it in.

(01:00:36):
And then there's this one night where, you know, she was crying about, I don't know why
I'm like this.
And I think it was the same night and she's just like, I'm a jerk.
I'm just a jerk.
I'm a horrible person.
I'm a jerk.
And I'm just, oh, what?
And then I'm like, I'm feeling guilty because I'm like, what did I say?
Because I'm sure I wasn't very nice.
Sure.
I was like, I did that when she was in fact being a jerk.

(01:00:56):
I'm trying to like put her in her place and let her know like, you can't be like this
in the real world, man.
Knock her down a couple pegs when she's like a high horse about something.
Oh, she's always on a high horse.
Maybe I wonder if it has something to do with negative attention is still attention.
Oh, yeah.
Because you're spread thin, right?
And she requires a lot more attention, say, than your oldest.

(01:01:20):
She requires like quadruple the amount of attention.
That's correct.
I have two kids that require more attention.
And the other two kids are just like, you know, so they don't need it as much.
So all the attention goes to the other two.
And I feel like negative attention is still attention.
So when she's learned that stirring the pot still gets her what she wants, as Dr. Phil

(01:01:41):
would say, the squeaky wheel is getting the grease.
You're so lame.
Dude, is it not true?
Thank you, Dr. Phil.
It's true.
I don't think he coined that.
I don't know, but I know I heard it from him and I'm going to ask Chad.
Chad will let me know.
Here we go.
Yeah.
The first book is just Shelly and Friends.

(01:02:11):
Correct.
The second book is Shelly and Friends.
Otto's Adventure.
Gotcha.
OK.
Because now we're talking about Shelly's son.
Or you can say that, you know, I was the mom Shelly.
OK.
I'm putting a little bit of me a little bit in my books.
So the first book is more about the struggle of being Shelly.

(01:02:32):
Yes.
And the second book is Shelly's Observation of Her Son's Struggle.
Yes.
OK.
And how she does with it.
I like it.
Yeah.
So I kind of need to go off on a little bit, it's related, but a little bit of a bunny
trail.
Which reminds me or reminded me of a recent trip that Victoria and I took together when
we went to Tulsa with some girlfriends and we ended up on this trip being sent with stuffies

(01:02:57):
from our kids.
We did not know.
Well, it was have nine year old daughters.
We have another friend that joined the trip also has a nine year old daughter when I was
expressing to our other friend that my daughter was struggling with the anxiety of me leaving,
which she always does.
She's had this anxiety since she was very little.
She was struggling the night before my friend said, well, my daughter is sending me with

(01:03:18):
a little stuffy because she's worried I'm not going to have any friends while we're
there.
I'm not sure that was funny because her mom's like she's just kind of socially awkward.
So her daughter kind of knows.
But awesome.
Yes, we love her.
And so her daughter was like, I'm just so worried that you're not going to make any
friends.
Which is we're in this huge like social atmosphere where there was a lot of other people that

(01:03:38):
were going to be there.
And I just thought that was so cute.
And she said, well, what about your daughter?
Maybe she can send if she's worried about you leaving.
Why don't you ask her to send a stuffy with you?
And I was like, that's a really good idea.
So my daughter sends me with this little stuff lamb.
She calls her lamb lamb.
And so lamb lamb goes on the trip and I go and I meet up with Victoria at the airport
and I like, look, my daughter sent me with with a little stuffy.

(01:04:01):
And what does she do?
She pulls out of her pocket a stuffy from her daughter and says, yeah, I got one too.
This is Yodi because her daughter is obsessed with baby Yoda.
Yep.
She calls me Yodi.
And so this whole trip, we end up taking photos of the journey of Yodi and lamb lamb and their
adventures together and how lamb lamb gets lost.

(01:04:24):
Because she forgot lamb lamb in the hotel room for the first day of the trip.
So lamb lamb's lost.
Lamb lamb is lost.
Yodi's fine to find lamb lamb.
They find each other.
They go on this adventure together and we photograph them playing in the fall leaves.
We found, they got pictures with Santa together.
I love it.
They went ice skating to the arcade.
They went to the arcade.

(01:04:45):
They went to a concert together at the end.
They're smooching.
They fell in love.
They fell in love at the end.
So while we're doing this and we had no intention in the beginning, we just thought it would
be cute to take pictures for our girls and send it back home.
So they just thought it was adorable, right?
And our friend goes, you guys need to make a book with all these pictures.

(01:05:07):
And we were like, ding, ding, ding.
Like that sounds so fun.
Just for our kids.
Not to sell it or anything.
Right, right.
You know, probably licensing issues with Baby Yoda.
Oh, well, of course.
Which is...
Shutterfly or something like that.
Exactly.
You know, make our own little person.
Yeah, Shutterfly's got everything.
Yeah.
It'll be so cute.
I was like, oh, we'll get it done by Christmas.
But meanwhile, we're on this trip December 13th through the 15th.

(01:05:30):
10 days before Christmas.
Yeah, not going to happen.
Haven't even written the narrative yet.
Yeah.
Well, you know, if we get stuck on a little plot line, we'll have to call you up and be
like, hey, what do we think?
What do we think?
Exactly.
We'll get lost, Mary.
Help us out.
Yeah.
Oh, yeah.
I'll do my best.
Ask your son to help us name the characters.
Yeah, and then you got...
Yeah, it's really good with that.
Kitty Cat, which was our other friend's little stuffy.

(01:05:52):
She's kind of like the friend that they make along the way.
Just like I made a friend in her, the girl.
I never met her, and she became a friend.
Yeah, so cute.
Just kind of like Toy Story.
And our kids were like...
Yeah, that's right.
And our kids, when we showed them the picture, was my daughter at least.
I was so excited to show her a picture.
I saw her video of Baby Yoda on the escalator and everything.

(01:06:15):
Her response, cute.
Yeah, I understand.
My entire trip was dedicated.
I mean, I'm talking dedicated.
We have behind the scenes.
And you only get one word.
We had the behind the scenes videos of us taking pictures of the baby.
We had Baby Landlamp and Yoda in the leaves, and our other friend is standing there dropping

(01:06:36):
the leaves so we can get videos.
And it's like... cute.
The things we do for our kids, it became really fun.
On day three, we were taking it so seriously, we were cracking up.
Every second was all about...
It just shows what moms go through.
Exactly.
Everything.
And then our kid goes, okay, great.

(01:06:58):
Yeah, cute.
Yeah, exactly.
My whole trip was dedicated.
This is supposed to be me time with my friends.
My daughter actually loved it.
She was like, I want to see more, show me more.
Yeah, I actually showed her the whole album and she was really excited when we got home.
But just that moment of being like...
You have your expectations so high.

(01:07:19):
I'd be like, really?
That's it?
Yeah.
Do you know what I said?
That's it?
She goes, no, it's really cool.
Thanks.
Oh my gosh.
Okay.
Yep.
But we still continued on.
Yep.
That's good.
We made it count.
Always.
Yeah, what's the creative process like for you?
Actually, to tell you the truth, it was pretty easy because the way that I work is just,

(01:07:40):
sometimes I even dream about it.
I think about it when I go on a walk with my dog.
It just all came together.
And I was just trying to think of scenes that could really be visual for kids to see, like
the mom and the son together talking kind of like on a personal level type of thing.
That was kind of like one of my niches.

(01:08:01):
And having some scenery to just kind of like be lost in it type of thing for the kids and
parents.
Can I see your books?
You surely can.
This is so cute, Mary.
I love that.
Thank you.
I like this.
You know, hi, my name is Shelly and I'm a turtle.
What is your name?
And you fill it out and then it plays a picture of yourself here.
How cute.

(01:08:22):
It's more of a scrapbook.
Yeah.
I made the first one's more of a scrapbook type of thing.
I love this.
Connect the dots and finish the character is a cute idea.
Yeah, I did some research on activities that would be fun or like things that are like
happening around that time.
And I always loved to connect the dots or one I would love to work with is the one when

(01:08:45):
you color by numbers.
And then you have to tell the color like it's yellow or green.
Number two is whatever.
So I just couldn't get the concept of that, but I could be a work in progress.
When you have a book, do you have to buy the ISBN number?
Yes.
How much does that cost?

(01:09:05):
It's actually, it's through a bonker.
It's not very expensive.
You can buy actually you can buy a couple for a certain price.
Oh, that's not bad.
So that's kind of like, because my husband's like, are you going to write more?
And I said, yes.
So he bought like, I don't know, three or four.
Oh, okay.
So that's for a price.

(01:09:26):
I have also been on what's called PR from the heart.
If you look at my website, I was interviewed for my first book.
I also was able to be on Bakersfield in California on Studio 17.
I was able to be on the news for a little bit of a clip for my book.
How cool is that?
Most of the drawings were still life.
I had to find where these characters and what they looked like.

(01:09:48):
And then I just put my own little spin on it.
Been told I make my characters are very detailed.
Yeah, they look really good.
You know, you could teach like if you want to push your book, teach like a workshop
to kids.
Yes.
On character development.
Absolutely.
On illustrations for your story.
Yes.

(01:10:08):
You know, and just have like little workshops.
And since you're a stay at home mom, you could really, really cater it to homeschooling
groups.
Yes.
Well, I have, I've reached out to a few none have come back to touch base.
No, no, you join it.
Yes.
I have a Facebook group and putting out a flyer, getting a room at a library to save
the money, get the room at the library.

(01:10:30):
It's free.
Okay.
And I think you can have it for like an up to three hours a day, maybe here, maybe two
hours.
Yeah.
But they have relatively big rooms, depending on which one you go to and put a flyer out
there and charge 30 bucks a kid, do it for like a series of weeks.
Plies included at the end of the four week series, they're going to have their own illustrated

(01:10:51):
book.
Nice.
That's just an idea.
Yeah.
Because it's just some extra money and it gets you keeps you like in the flow.
Yes.
I don't have like an assistant or anything.
It would be awesome if I could come up with some, some more ideas.
But yeah, I'll take, I'll take anything at this rate.
Because at that point it gets you, you know, it just adds more to your CV.

(01:11:12):
Oh yeah.
You know, I like that.
That's a good idea.
I'm always thinking of ways to make more money.
Oh, I know.
I'm always on my brain is how can I turn this into a business?
Right.
And on the side, I come up for some business side of souvenirs and my husband has been loving
the 3D printing.

(01:11:33):
It's cute.
It's becoming a thing.
And so I make manatees and snakes and turtles, starting to make key chains, you know, things
that are kind of big that kids would love.
So I've been doing some key chains and it's, it's been a hit.
It's been a hit.
And that could be something that is offered.
Every class the kid gets to leave with character key chain from one of my books.

(01:11:55):
And then at the end of the four weeks, six weeks, whatever you choose, however many key
chains they have the full set.
Correct.
You know, and so that's one incentive for people to pay for your class.
But yeah, I mean, I'm all in this to myself.
I'm just trying to think of some ideas to help me to branch out a little bit more.
It takes time.
It does.
To do it in less than I get it.

(01:12:15):
I have so many freaking ideas for my own thing and I can hardly get any of them done.
Exactly.
I'm spread so thin and also doing things yourself.
If you're not, if you don't know what to do, having to learn what to do to then do them
is a task.
It is, it is a task.
I don't know how you call people and get into Barnes and Noble.

(01:12:36):
I could never do that.
I'd be like, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, like I don't want to sell myself.
Yeah.
Well, I just had to be brave and do it myself.
That's amazing.
I thought you can do that.
Yeah.
I just went, I just went to the manager and she says, kids readings on Saturday.
Yeah.
It's one of those things that you've got to constantly follow up and it's like, that's
another task.

(01:12:56):
That's my goal.
That's my goal this year is to try to follow up with people.
You need somebody to do that for you.
Because it's like, that's what an agent would do or a booking agent or something.
That's like, we're comedies who's come to town.
Obviously, they have somebody doing and handling that themselves.
I want to live in laughter because laughter is the best medicine.

(01:13:20):
100%.
I got to go and see a comedian because I wanted to do something fun.
I'm like, I want to laugh.
It's such a good coping thing to have when you're going through all these issues.
You just need to go somewhere and have a laugh.
She lives her life through coping through laughter.
100%.
Humor is yes.
Yeah.
I mean, the hardest stuff.

(01:13:42):
You just can laugh about it.
Not that hard anymore.
No.
You know?
Yeah.
Not too soon though.
I'm going to tell you it's so much better than medicine.
I think just think laughter is just great medicine.
I can always make my mom laugh on the phone.
My mom too.
My mom thinks I am the funniest person.
I think you are.
I think you are.

(01:14:02):
Me too.
I think you are the funniest person.
Seriously, you guys are so weird.
But hey, listen, it definitely boosts my self-esteem.
That's for sure.
There you go.
I'm probably not very funny in just real life, but when other people laugh at what you have
to say, you're like, man, I'm hilarious.
Well, you saw what I sent you last night, right?
The thing.

(01:14:22):
The thing I said we should put up.
We should print out.
Yeah, I actually wanted to come here early, print it out, put it on the wall for you,
but I didn't have time.
That was so great.
It says no one will ever be as entertained by us as us.
There you go.
I love it.
That is so true.
We've been best friends since we were five years old, so we know each other very well.
I have to say I envy that because I never really had any close girlfriends.

(01:14:48):
It is a very rare thing.
It's a very rare thing, and it's the same thing.
I always loved my mom's relationship because she has besties too.
They've seen us all grow up, and they've still kept in touch.
After 50 plus years, and those come across very rare.

(01:15:10):
It is.
It's true.
I mean, I've had people in my life that I thought at the time that we were close, like,
oh, this is a good one.
This is somebody who is going to stick around, but then they don't.
And then they don't.
And you have to grieve that loss of that friendship.
I grieve a lot.
Yeah.
I've been blessed.
Oh, absolutely.
We're kind of like a married couple, it's not like we don't have our times where we

(01:15:36):
don't argue or anything.
Yeah, we have disagreements.
It's part of our relationship.
It's part of our relationship.
It's part of having a relationship, and then working through them.
Absolutely.
Absolutely.
We've been there for all of each other's major life events, breakups, boyfriends.
We're there at each other's wedding, made of honor, births of all of our babies.

(01:15:59):
She was there by my side when my son was going through cancer.
I was there by her side when her daughter had her car accident.
Just all of life's big events, you have a person there is really special.
It is very, very special.
Oh, yeah, absolutely.
And I know that I'm very thankful and I'm very blessed.
Yeah, I would.
I know she feels the same way.

(01:16:19):
And so she had this idea for the podcast.
We had talked about doing a podcast for a really long time, but we did not have any
clear direction on where we were going with it, and we knew that we had interests that
we wanted to discuss.
Nothing was really, it wasn't a clear path.
There was a path, but then there were always these forks in the road.
If we could go that way, that way, that way, that way, how are we going to bring it all

(01:16:40):
together?
So it happens in new businesses, you have to figure it out.
Yeah, and then so I had a really sad day talking about, I had to dig up a lot of old baggage
and emotions regarding my son's cancer diagnosis, even though he has been healed and thriving
for many years, it just kind of reopened that wound and I just had a really bad day and

(01:17:02):
I confided in her and that's when she was like, I ought to bring up this idea to you
and see what you think about the podcast.
She's like, you know, I know we haven't really like done anything with it.
We talked about it.
She's like, well, I kept having this idea.
And she's like, you know, we tell her a story to people.
And they say, wow, I can't even imagine, wow, that must have been so hard.

(01:17:24):
You know, she's like, I go, that's it.
As soon as she said it, she goes, you know, have people tell us I can't even imagine.
That's the name of our podcast.
You know, it would be nice to put your son on.
He's not that kind of person though.
Oh, but it would have been nice because for a lot of people who parents and kids who have
dealt with cancer, it could be a really good message.

(01:17:45):
Yeah.
He doesn't really talk about.
His journey, you know, far more than he does.
He doesn't really like to talk about it.
My daughter said to me, you know, he doesn't like it when you talk about his cancer all
the time.
And I was like, oh, that kind of stung.
Of course.
A little bit, you know, because I was like, it is, it's our journey, but it's really

(01:18:07):
his journey.
Yeah.
And he doesn't want to hear about it.
He probably doesn't want to hear.
Doesn't want to know that he had it or it was an issue with him.
And it's just, it's always going to be there to scar.
Yeah.
And he's not really, he's never been an openly emotional kid.
Okay.
You know, if he gets upset, he's the kind of kid that's going to go in his room and

(01:18:28):
shut the door and be upset privately.
You know, he doesn't like to, it's very rare that you ever see him cry.
I do have to know it would be so cool if my books can also make it into therapy sessions.

(01:18:50):
Because even with the therapist, it could be very difficult to figure out what could
I do or say to help this kid open up.
Breaking down those walls.
Breaking down the walls just to have a say something, you know.
And I have had, there was a, I don't know if it was a therapist or a psychologist, whatever.

(01:19:12):
They looked at my book and they thought it was pretty impressive with just various questions
about different kinds of emotions and stuff because she gets kids that just are hard to
break it down.
Yeah.
Break down that wall.
Oh, I could totally see that.
So that would be kind of cool.
Just talking about getting her book into like office therapy offices.

(01:19:34):
I know.
I heard that comment.
I've tried to, I still have to reach out for them, the hospitals, children's hospital.
I've reached out a couple of times.
Talk to the, talk to Child Life.
That's what they're called.
Okay.
Child, ask for the Child Life Department.
Okay.
Yeah.
But then the hurricane hit and haven't just touched back because they lost stuff and
then COVID and they have like limitations or maybe they have kids that are still kind

(01:20:00):
of feeling sick and they can't get them out maybe.
Well, it's not only for that, but it's also for like the kids in the hospital.
Yeah.
They're siblings.
And my daughter was in the hospital, the Child Life social worker would come in and had lots
of books when they had to break the news about my grandmother's death.
To my daughter, the Child Life social worker would come in and she gave us a ton of books

(01:20:26):
that were very helpful, that were, you know, in a child's language to explain, you know,
death or whatever.
And so yeah, Child Life is definitely somebody you should reach out to because in the hospital,
they always need, you know, the resources for families.

(01:20:48):
Oh yeah.
Absolutely.
Not just the kid itself, but the families, you know.
Okay.
They're also really great about like they offer things like coping, you know, coping mechanisms
and skills and resources.
They bring in, you know, service animals and dogs and stuff that they can pet.
They were really good with my kid about, you know, teaching him how to take pills because

(01:21:11):
he had to take these little tiny pills and they would start them off with like sprinkles,
something even tinier than a pill and they kind of worked their way up.
They were just kind of like the go-to, you know, aside from like, they were just kind
of non-medical.
They were more...
The emotional side.
Yeah, the emotional side.
They were quite wonderful, honestly.
And what was really cool too, in our rehab center, they had the, you know, the dogs

(01:21:34):
that would come around, but they had story time with the dogs.
So they bring the dog in and the kid will read the story or sit with the dog while the story
is being read depending on their age or depending on their injury or whatever.
That's very comforting to a lot of kids.
And so having...
You donate the books, you know, but or, you know, you be there with the book and the person
with the dog and that would be a really cool volunteer effort for sure.

(01:21:58):
Oh yeah, absolutely.
So where are you currently marketing?
This is one of my first ones.
I am struggling with marketing.
I did reach out to a kids magazine.
It's called Kidlo magazine and it reaches...
It's a digital magazine.
It reaches 100 countries.
I just signed a two-page ad to put my books in.

(01:22:19):
So it'll be in September.
And I've also snuck my books into the Operation Child Care Package.
Oh, the Christmas Operation Child or whatever it's called.
My books were small enough to fit in the box.
And where can people find your book currently?
My book has reached Barnes & Noble over in the Stero.
Can people find it online?
Amazon does have it.
Barnes & Noble has it.

(01:22:40):
I just found out Walmart has it.
Go on my website and buy it from me.
What's your website?
Writtenbymary.com.
Awesome.
Written by Mary.
That's it.
That's easy.
And I'm happy to ship it out and you might get something special when you buy the book.
Ooh, a little bonus.
Like a little bonus gift I've been working on.
You know what you should do?

(01:23:02):
You should go to Sun Harvest.
I was just going to say that.
Sun Harvest.
I was just going to say that.
I went to Sun Harvest.
They are Florida everything.
And it's all old people too and they'll want that to bring home to their grandkids.
All tourists.
It's a very touristy.
Okay.
Sun Market.
Sun Harvest.
I'm coming to you.
I'm coming to you as Sun Market.

(01:23:22):
Sun Harvest.
I mean, I'm sorry.
Sun Harvest.
Sun Harvest.
I'm coming to you.
It's right down the street.
Yeah.
It's just like five minutes away.
Go there on your way home.
I know they do like workshops and classes and stuff in there too.
You could probably set up a reading.
Absolutely.
I mean, it is literally, it's all tourist.
It's all, it's pretty much 90% gray haired people.

(01:23:43):
I mean, I have gray hair, but I mean like white hair.
Yeah.
They really support a lot of local artists and artisan stuff.
Yeah.
Kind of boutique.
Yes.
But it's like local stuff, local jams and jelly and you know, all kinds of soaps and
can cream and all the things that are locally made.
Awesome.
They feature that.

(01:24:04):
So that would be a great place for you to get your book into.
Definitely.
Yep.
Yeah.
And it's perfect on theme with them.
Yes.
Absolutely.
My books are, the first book is Shellian Friends and my second book is Shellian Friends
Out of Adventure.
You can find them on my website on writtenbymary.com.
You can also find them on Amazon.

(01:24:25):
You can find them at Walmart and Barnes & Noble.
One by Mary.com is my personal thing.
I send it to you and you get something special from me.
I am on Facebook and Instagram.
What's your handle?
Shellian Friends book.
Well, thank you for coming in and sharing about your book.
We hope you get lots of sales.
Yes.

(01:24:46):
It was a pleasure.
Thank you for listening.
You can find us at our brand new website, www.icantionimagined.com and find us on our
socials at Instagram at I-C-E-I underscore podcast or on Facebook at I can't even imagine
dash a podcast for moms.
Thank you so much for listening.
Thank you.
Bye.
Believe it or not, I love your podcast.

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Episode 14: You're Not Alone – Talking Mental Health with Children's Author Mary Asaro

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Episode 14: You're Not Alone – Talking Mental Health with Children's Author Mary Asaro