November 18, 2024 • 27 mins
In this episode, we feature two-time Grammy-nominated jazz vocalist (and the singer and writer of our theme music!) Cyrille Aimee. Experience her musical journey, where the rhythm of curls meets the soulful sounds influenced by her childhood friendships with the Roma people. Cyrille shares her creative process in building the theme music for this podcast, inviting you to explore unexpected connections between jazz, curls, and the beauty of nature.
Our "Calling All Curls" segment brings a lively exchange with Maya, a college student from Somerville, Massachusetts, who is on a quest for healthier curls. She shares her struggle with frizz and her desire to embrace her curls without relying on heavy, oily products. Lorraine is on hand to provide a tailored hair care plan that offers Maya a nurturing path forward. A fun twist is that Lorraine checks in with Maya months down the line to see how her hair care journey has progressed.
Tune in for practical hair tips and insights from Cyrille’s musical background!
Lorraine Massey is a curl advocate whose lifelong dedication to understanding and caring for curly hair has helped drive a global phenomenon of curly acceptance. As the founder of the groundbreaking Curly Girl Method, she has empowered countless individuals to embrace their natural texture. Lorraine is also the author of three critically acclaimed books: Curly Girl: The Handbook, Silver Hair: A Handbook, and Curly Kids: The Handbook.
CurlyWorld website:
https://www.curlyworld.com/
CurlyWorld Instagram:
https://www.instagram.com/curlyworldllc/
Host: Lorraine Massey
Producer: Susan Kaplan
Engineer: Dan Strong
Original Music: Cyrille Aimee
Show: If Your Curls Could Talk
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Hi, I'm Lorraine Massey, founder of the Curly
Girl Method.
Welcome to If your Curls CouldTalk.
Join us as we talk to our veryspecial guests sharing their
curly hair journeys, and takequestions from you, our
listeners.
This is If your Curls CouldTalk.
I'm excited to introduce you totoday's guest.
(00:23):
She's a Grammy-nominatedrecording artist.
Her music is incredible, hervoice is amazing, and if anyone
is familiar with Curly Girl theHandbook she's on the front
cover.
I'm inviting you to take thisjourney with us.
In meeting Sorelle Ame, we willtake a deep dive into how she
discovered her love for music,jazz and curls.
(00:44):
She also wrote and performedour original theme song, sorel,
if your curls could talk, whatwould they say?
You see, that is the truth,though, isn't it?
That's the truth?
The truth.
Speaker 2 (01:04):
Yeah, they have a mind of their own every day.
Every day is a different dayand every day is a good day and
what you just did.
Speaker 1 (01:14):
What's it called in jazz?
It's called scatting, scatting.
So curls are like scatting in away.
You know, it's improvisation.
Speaker 3 (01:23):
And I think everything is improvisation.
Speaker 1 (01:27):
You know, our life, the music, the hair, yeah, and
if we allow right because you'reright, if we are in truth with
it.
We think we're in control, butwe're very rarely in control,
but we think we are.
But curls are like jazz, aren'tthey Improvisational?
I just want to ask fromDominican Republic.
Speaker 2 (01:49):
and so there was always music in the house like
(02:10):
salsa, bachata, merengue, and mymom and my sister and I we
loved to dance, so to me musicwas made for dancing.
That was my relationship to it.
And then, when I was around 14,I was living in this little
village in France on theoutskirts of Paris, and it's a
village where there's a DjangoReinhardt festival.
(02:31):
Django was a gypsy guitarplayer and he's legendary.
He died in 1953 and was buriedin my village and so every year,
because he was from there, andevery year there's a Django
festival in his honor andgypsies from all across Europe
come in their caravans byhundreds and they set camp in
the field.
(02:51):
And this is I'm talking about alittle village that 2,000
people, and when it's festivaltime it just doubles in size and
it's guitar playing day andnight around the campfire, going
to Django's tomb and justhonoring him with the music.
And so when I was little, Iwould go to the festival every
year just because it was freefor kids and they had stands
(03:14):
with Nutella crepes and stufflike that, and the music was not
what was getting me.
One day I was on my bike andthis little gypsy girl comes and
she's like I can make a towel,and I made her repeat three
times because I couldn'tunderstand her accent.
And then I understood shewanted to borrow my bike and so
I was like yeah, sure, and shecalled her two cousins and they
(03:37):
all three of them hopped on mybike and I was like, oh, and
they were like, come on.
And so I hopped on the bike withthem and we went down the hill
and we became best friends.
And so then I started hangingout in the gypsy campsite and
fell in love completely withtheir way of life, their way of
seeing the world.
(03:58):
They're very in the moment.
They live every day like it'stheir last, and so by getting to
know them and getting to feelthat, I started to understand
their music, which was the same.
It was a music of the presentmoment, a music for community, a
music to share while people arecooking, a music that has no
(04:20):
agenda other than just to feelgood and celebrate.
And that's when I fell in lovewith the music.
Speaker 1 (04:27):
How did you know that you had a?
Speaker 2 (04:28):
voice Because of the response of people.
I don't think I have a voice, Ijust like to sing.
Speaker 1 (04:34):
Yeah, and everyone was saying oh Sorrel, you sound
amazing.
Speaker 2 (04:38):
Yeah, I guess I never stopped and told myself oh, I
want to be a singer.
I just thought singing is fun,I want to do more of that, I
should learn more songs.
And then, after a while, peoplestarted giving me money for it.
Speaker 1 (04:55):
And I was like whoa, I guess I'll keep doing it.
Funny, that's funny, but that'sagain.
(05:15):
That's that organic.
You know the accidental amazingsinger.
How did you go from meetingthis?
Speaker 2 (05:18):
amazing community that you spent so much time with
, to jazz.
What was the journey?
Well, they play jazz.
Jazz is a term that it doesn'treally mean much to me.
Jazz is not a style of music,it's a way of playing any style
of music, and it's reallyimprovised music.
And so they play the standards,they play Sweet Georgia Brown,
they play Take the A-Train, butthey improvise.
They just rip these solos onthe guitar.
(05:40):
And so I started learningDjango's solos by heart.
I started learning StefanGrappelli's solos by heart.
Who's the violinist who playedwith Django?
And then one day I came acrossElla Fitzgerald, and so I
started learning her solos byheart.
And then I wanted to do my own,but I didn't know what to say.
I didn't know if I was supposedto say doobie doo or shoobie,
(06:03):
wah, you know.
And one day there was thefestival and I was supposed to
say doobie doo or shooby, wah,you know.
And one day there was thefestival and I was looking for
my mom because she had my keysor something, and there was
music everywhere and there was aconcert in a boat and I went
down the boat to see if she wasthere, and it was the middle of
the concert and the guitarplayer on stage was scatting.
He was doing the mostridiculous thing I've ever seen.
He was going like and it wasawesome, and at this moment I
(06:28):
realized you just got to comeout with whatever feels natural.
He didn't like practice doingthis sound and it just had to
come out.
And so it sounded good becauseit's real, it's honest, and so
that's when I scattered for thefirst time, and then I just
learned a very valuable lessonthat it's really all about
having fun and challengingyourself and always getting out
(06:49):
of your comfort zone anddiscovering new colors in the
music, new sounds and connecting.
Speaker 1 (06:55):
Yeah it's amazing, that really is amazing, and your
voice is just always ready togo.
Like today.
We had this amazing experienceright in the studio, just having
our own private little session.
Yeah, so as you listen to thispodcast, when you listen to the
introduction, you know who issinging in the introduction, and
(07:17):
it is surreal.
Speaker 2 (07:19):
It was built.
Speaker 1 (07:32):
It was built, wasn't?
It Right in front of your eyes,right in front of our eyes and
our ears, incredible.
So we started with one thing,and then you said oh, why don't
we add this?
And then why don't we add that?
Oh, that needs a shush.
Speaker 2 (07:45):
So the studio is really fun.
The studio is a very differentanimal than the stage.
I thrive in the stage because Ido so much of it and I love the
connection with the band andwith the audience and I love
getting up on stage and notknowing what's going to happen
and being all ears and goingwith whatever happens.
(08:06):
You know if it doesn't go asplanned, which it's supposed to
not go as planned, and itdoesn't go as planned, it
doesn't mean that's wrong.
It means oh, listen even more.
And in the studio it's kind oflike you're under a microscope
and I love that as well.
It's a whole nother side of mymusicianship that's challenged
(08:26):
and I love it.
Speaker 1 (08:27):
And what you said about listening is the listening
part, isn't it?
It's like you said.
You know, I probably seecertain things in curls that
nobody else does, and you hearthings that nobody else does.
Like that you can't trainanyone.
It probably is just there,isn't it?
I mean you can train someone toa certain is.
Just there, isn't it?
Speaker 2 (08:45):
I mean you can train someone to a certain degree, but
I think if everyone can learnto listen, it's something that
we kind of forget how to do.
We all know how to listen andthen we start forgetting because
we're distracted so much by somany things, but also then the
ego takes a bigger space and wecan't listen because the ego is
so loud.
But yeah, being a good musicianstarts with listening, which is
(09:08):
why I love living in NewOrleans, because the cool thing
about New Orleans and itreminded me when I first visited
there, it reminded me of beingaround with the Gypsies, where
the music is not only formusicians, it's for everybody,
and you are a part of the music,whether you have an instrument
in your hand or not.
Because if you're present, ifyou're listening, if you're
(09:30):
actively listening, you're ahuge part of the music.
Speaker 1 (09:34):
Actively listening.
Yeah, that's really reallybeautiful, beautiful way of
describing that.
But you're not only in NewOrleans, you're also in Costa
Rica, right?
Speaker 2 (09:46):
I'm everywhere.
Lorraine, Costa Rica is mynature home.
It's a place where I go towrite songs.
Speaker 1 (09:55):
And you said that you lost your phone at one point.
Speaker 2 (09:58):
Yeah, I decided after I lost my phone.
I decided to not get a new onefor nine months and it was
amazing.
Yeah, like in two weeks.
In two weeks I felt detox.
I could see clearer.
I had physical symptoms thatwere.
It was really, really crazy.
I could see clearer, everythingwas sharper and I could
(10:19):
remember things much better.
Speaker 1 (10:21):
After only two weeks yeah, yes, we, we all should do
that you're going to be teaching.
You said two, maybe in CostaRica.
Speaker 2 (10:35):
I have a vision of organizing music workshops over
there.
To me it's almost like it's theopposite of learning things,
it's unlearning.
It's more of that, it's moreunlearning misconceptions that
we have, that a lot of mystudents come and they're like,
well, I don't really have avoice or I don't know how to
(10:58):
belt or I don't know how to readmusic, so I feel like I
couldn't sing jazz and I'm likeunlearn all of that.
I don't read music and lookwhere I am.
And it's really about listening, remembering things that we
already know and getting rid ofall these obstacles that we put
ourselves, you know, in front ofus.
Speaker 1 (11:17):
Yeah, I call them obstacle, illusions.
Speaker 2 (11:22):
Of course you do.
Speaker 1 (11:23):
Right, I mean, it's so true.
It's like you were saying I'mlearning.
I feel that's what I have beendoing with people.
You know, we're trained ashairdressers to straighten
everyone out, and so I have tounlearn everything.
We've been trained to godownwards with everything,
whereas actually curls areupwards.
You know they spring up.
We've been pulling them down inthis like locked straight
jacket position.
(11:43):
So it's a similar.
We're always looking foranalogies.
Speaker 2 (11:46):
Exactly yeah.
When I'm improvising on thestage, some students are like I
have ideas in my head and Idon't know how to make them come
out.
And to me it's the opposite.
Don't't start at the head, openyour mouth and just allow what
wants to come out to come outand fall in love with that.
Speaker 1 (12:06):
You see it, that's totally what I could use that
for curly, like, stop thinkingabout what you want for it, let
it show you what it is.
Speaker 2 (12:15):
Yeah, you taught me with the, with the frizz.
Yeah, when I came to you lastyear, it was and I was like, oh,
frizz, and you showed me howfrizz is a defense mechanism.
Speaker 1 (12:26):
Yeah, there's never going to be a cure for frizz
ever.
It's never going to go away.
We can try and eradicate it,which most products say things
like that but it's not healthyfor the frizz.
The best treatment you could dois go to Costa Rica in the rain
and allow your hair to justopen up to the atmosphere.
That would be the besttreatment you could give your
hair in the world.
Take a week off.
(12:47):
Take a day off, say, if you'renot doing anything.
When was the last time our hairwas naked?
Probably the moment we wereborn, and then we got washed
with detergent the minute wecame into this world.
So we've been putting stuff onus ever since, and it's so
lovely to let your hair be freeand actually feel it.
Speaker 2 (13:06):
Yeah, I have a question, maureen.
Yes, what do I do as a personwho travels a lot, who lives out
of her suitcase and when I'mnot, I'm in the middle of the
jungle.
What do I do if I don't have myfavorite hair product?
Speaker 1 (13:22):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (13:23):
And I have to perform , or whatever.
What can I find in the kitchen,yeah, or at the grocery store?
Speaker 1 (13:28):
Okay, so it's a really good question.
The best thing is aloe vera gelfrom the aloe vera plant.
Speaker 2 (13:35):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (13:36):
The best thing because it's water soluble.
It goes in and it comes out.
The thing is, we need productsthat when they go in, they
shouldn't stay in and they stayin for too long and then they
make their hair gummy and dulland it plasticizes the hair and
then it stops the hair fromallowing it to go to the
atmosphere where it wants to,naturally.
(13:56):
And coconut water, not coconutoil.
Coconut water, because thewater is sugary In the sugars.
We put sugars in a lot ofproducts too.
We can make a gel from it.
Speaker 2 (14:08):
Oh, I didn't know.
Speaker 1 (14:09):
You could make a spray out of coconut water that
mixed also with the aloe veragel.
You can rinse your hair withwater, because water is an
amazing elixir.
The only thing is it doesn'tgive us moisture, but it really
cleanses when your hair isreally soaking.
Get the aloe vera gel and youjust squeeze it in slowly and I
(14:30):
think if you let it dry quietly,you'll probably get a lovely
curl.
Speaker 2 (14:34):
I've tried aloe vera gel and it works really well.
Speaker 1 (14:37):
It's so pure If you can keep it in the fridge.
You can buy your aloe vera gelfrom anywhere.
Now, keep it in the fridge.
You can mix it with a bit ofcoconut water, a few of your
favorite essences, like anorange essence that you can
actually cook with.
We are organic.
We're natural.
That's what we did a long timeago, you know.
Anyway, we must have like allthe things that people used.
It's like farm to table.
(14:58):
They say farm to table.
Farm to table was always aroundbecause everything we got was
from the farm.
So this idea of farm to tableis a new thing.
It really isn't, but farm tohair would be.
It's really good.
So you can use some of thethings in your environment.
We were born in water, right?
So in a way, there's a reasonwhy we love being by the ocean
(15:18):
because we are water.
We're amphibious in a way.
We were born in water, we camefrom water.
Our sweat is salty, our bloodis salty, so we come out of the
water and we dry up on land.
Anything that comes out of thewater, like the seaweed, is
moving around and then as soonas it's on land, it just dries
up.
So we're always in thiscontinuous flux of dehydration,
(15:42):
hydration.
So that's why we have to keepdrinking water.
We have to keep doing thesethings.
We're never not going to be notdoing anything to our hair.
We'll always have to beapplying some kind of moisture
in order to move through.
Speaker 2 (15:54):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (15:55):
Thank you so much for being with us.
Thank you, Lorraine.
Much love to you and the joythat you spread for everyone Joy
, hope that we all feel.
Thank you.
Next, I love this section iscalled Calling All Curls.
This is where curly girls fromall over the world call in and
(16:16):
ask me any question they wantabout curly hair.
Who do we have on the phoneright now?
Hi, this is Maya.
Welcome, Ask us anything.
Speaker 3 (16:33):
Okay, yeah, I mean, I'm so excited to be talking to
you right now.
I'm 22.
I'm living in Somerville,Massachusetts, and I'm having a
real trouble with my hair.
I have curly, wavy hair and Ican't seem to figure out how to
keep it.
Either my hair is really reallydry and almost brittle and
frizzy, or I can keep the curl,but then it becomes really heavy
(16:56):
and oily and I'm wondering ifyou have any advice as to how to
keep the curl.
Hold my curl, but without itfeeling like it's so much
product that it becomes oily.
Are you using oils in your hairProducts that say there's oil, I
use a product's a reallylightweight oil to help with the
frizz and I find that thathelps hold the curl in my hair
(17:17):
but makes your hair oily at theroot yes, yeah also, I find my
hair gets really oily, reallyquickly yeah.
Speaker 1 (17:24):
So oil and silicone, they're not water soluble.
So it is an anti-umectant, soit's not allowing humidity in,
but over time the cuticlebecomes sealed.
And then what's happening withyour scalp?
Because it's probably coveringyour scalp, your scalp is going
on overdrive because it's notbreathing.
A lot of the oils are silicone.
(17:45):
They call them oils, but a lotof the time they're silicone.
Silicone is a very inexpensive,cheap byproduct.
It is not really meant for hair.
Silicones are fantastic foryour car windows, your bathroom
sealant, for your shower, butwhen it comes to our hair, it
does give us that quick fix.
So that day when you put it on,you really love it for a minute
and then all of a sudden itturns on you.
(18:08):
So it's not sustainable.
So the scalp is an extension ofour facial skin, but you would
never put any of that stuff onour face, would we?
So what I would do if I was youis I get your products, the ones
that you're using, put them ina bit of water and if they mix
they could be water soluble, butI doubt it.
You'll probably find that ifyou put them in water they won't
(18:28):
mix, so that means they're notwater soluble.
That's not good for us.
We need things that go in andcome out.
We don't want things that go inthat never comes out.
It's not vegas, but we needsustainable products that keeps
the ph balance of our hair as itis.
If you're not doing anythingwhen we can try and detox from
(18:49):
everything, don't put anythingin your hair for a while.
Rinse it with sulfate free orsilicone free conditioner.
Just use water.
Let it breathe.
That is so good to know.
Thank you so much.
You're welcome.
So may I ask you a question?
Do you brush and comb your hair?
Speaker 3 (19:05):
I brush it once I detangle it, yeah, and then's it
, and then I don't brush itagain.
Speaker 1 (19:10):
Okay, so is that once a day you do that?
Speaker 3 (19:13):
Maybe.
Yeah, I am unfortunately achronic hair washer, and so it
ends up being once a day.
Speaker 1 (19:20):
No, but that's your cup of coffee.
A lot of people have this theirhabits.
This is your habit.
So, whatever you do, if you arebrushing your hair which I
don't recommend, I mean I feellike using your fingers to
detangle gives you a connectionto the hair that you will not
get from a brush.
So if you have a knot with abrush, you beat it out with your
(19:41):
fingers.
With conditioner in it, youwill gently pry it out because
you know every time you hearthat rip, it's a breakage that
accumulates one day, 365 days ayear.
You do that.
Your hair is exhausted.
It's exhausted from beingbeaten by a brush.
So if you are brushing yourhair on a dry surface, that will
(20:04):
fuse and confuse your cuticlesand your your hair, because
there's no fluidity in that.
If you are going to putanything through your hair which
I don't recommend but if you'regoing to, your hair must be
highly conditioned.
So there's a fluidity whenyou're organizing your curls
during the cleansing process,but do not brush or comb on dry
(20:25):
hair because that will ravageyour hair.
Speaker 3 (20:27):
I promise I will definitely do my best to be
gentler with my hair.
I really appreciate.
Speaker 1 (20:32):
Oh, you're welcome, thank you for your questions and
take care.
Thank you, you too, bye, thankyou, bye.
It's not enough to want to havehealthy hair.
You have to apply the advicethat I'm giving you just long
enough to see the difference,and then, from there, you'll be
on autopilot and habits willhave changed.
(20:55):
So let's fast forward and checkin with Maya.
Hi, how are you?
I'm good, how are you Good, sothank you for following up with
us.
So I'm really curious how areyour curls today?
Speaker 3 (21:15):
My hair could not be more different than it was a
couple of months ago.
In so many ways it's honestlyshocking, like if you go back
two or three months to now, notonly have I noticed a difference
, but so many people in my lifehave noticed a difference too in
the health of my hair.
Speaker 1 (21:29):
It's music to my curls when I hear that again,
it's not what you've been doing,it's what you've not been doing
.
That's the difference, isn't it?
Speaker 3 (21:38):
Yes, my friends used to make fun of me.
I would wash my hair once,sometimes twice a day, and now I
wash my hair at most everyother day.
I try for every three days.
Great, and I don't brush myhair anymore.
Great, oh my God.
I let it dry and that's it.
I don't shampoo my hair anymore.
(21:58):
Have you been using asulfate-free cleanser?
I've been using yoursulfate-free cleanser actually.
Speaker 1 (22:05):
Oh good, and have you been leaving a little bit of
conditioner in the ends, becauseit's the ends that really need
baby in too, because they'vebeen around a bit longer.
Speaker 3 (22:15):
I have Good, and if I think back, even three months
ago, I was experiencing way moreshedding than I probably should
have Right now.
That is so not a concern.
My hair feels healthy andstrong and is breaking less.
Wow, that's amazing.
I'm just so happy with that.
Speaker 1 (22:33):
Oh, maya, I'm so happy to hear this, and our hair
it's.
You know, we wear it every dayof our life, so it's not enough
to want to have healthy hairanymore.
We have to get into a littleroutine.
You just stay with it.
Keep your hair hydrated, pHbalance, free from all these
chemicals and silicones andlaminates and things that build
up, and your hair will breathe.
(22:54):
Your hair knows what to do.
It really does.
We're the ones that get in theway a lot of the time, totally.
If you really do talk aboutyour habits that have broken,
what were the ones that you feelhave been broken and they're
gone, you don't need themanymore I think brushing my hair
is the big one, yes, andwashing it every day.
Speaker 3 (23:11):
For a long time, I washed my hair every day because
I felt like my hair wasn'tclean unless I shampooed and
washed it every day, and that'snot how I feel anymore.
Good, and I also feel like I'membracing the wave.
My hair is not the curliest,but it's very wavy when taken
care of properly, and I oh oilthat properly and I oh oil.
(23:37):
That's the big one.
Sorry, I also put oil in myhair after every wash and I
haven't put oil in my hair inthree months.
Speaker 1 (23:39):
Great, and I see the difference.
And it's moisture retention.
That's amazing.
That's so amazing.
You'll see from now on, too,and you'll find that you won't
have as many dead ends, youwon't be needing as many
haircuts, because your hair willjust be growing.
It won't be as distressed as itwas when we talked last.
They're two very big onesbrushing, which fuse and confuse
the cuticles, oils whichlaminate and build up on the
(24:02):
hair.
So you've just been using yourfingers to detangle.
Speaker 3 (24:05):
I'm definitely trying to be very gentle and I think
it's breaking less.
I was always someone who usedto have a lot of breakage at the
top of my hair from just beingreally rough with a brush.
Speaker 1 (24:15):
Have you been giving yourself some scalp massages?
So when you sit quietly, whenyou're on the plane, when you're
traveling, sometimes just sitin and quietly give yourself a
nice little scalp massage.
It's so good for our hairfollicles.
There's so many blood vesselsaround them For them to just be
touched and gently nourished byjust your touch.
It's so good for the hair.
(24:37):
I think it's a very healthy.
Part of healthy hair is to giveyourself regular scalp massages
.
Speaker 3 (24:44):
That's good to know.
I didn't know that.
I will incorporate that into myroutine.
Speaker 1 (24:48):
And you've stopped touching it as much.
Are you still putting your hairup and down, up and down, or
are you allowing it to just bedown?
Speaker 3 (24:55):
I put it up in really nice soft scrunchies rather
than in the harder blackelastics.
Good, and when I do put it up,I put it up on the top of my hat
in a very loose bun.
Speaker 1 (25:06):
Good, but it's good that you're aware now it's the
beginning.
There's going to be so many newthings, things that we forget
about.
You know, even just putting ourbag on our shoulders, our
backpacks when we're hiking, ourhair gets trapped.
So these are just little thingsthat you'll just be aware of.
Again, our hair is very fragile.
It's a fine fiber and wheneveryou hear a break or a tug or a
(25:28):
pull, you might just get onehair, two hairs coming out.
But over time once a week,twice a day, five times a day it
builds up.
But I feel like you're doinggreat and I really am just so
happy and proud that you'reloving your hair.
Speaker 3 (25:45):
again.
You're falling back in lovewith your hair.
I am, and it's so much thanksto you.
So thank you so much forteaching me everything that I
know.
Speaker 1 (25:51):
Oh well, have a great rest of your day.
Thank you, maya.
Thank you, bye, bye, take care.
I'd like to thank our listenersand our beautiful guest, sorrel
Amei.
Thank you so much, maya, forcalling in.
Be sure to follow and share.
If your Curls Could Talk,wherever you get your podcast,
(26:13):
it will mean the world to us andit really makes a difference.
If anybody would like to submita question, please send it to
info at curlyworldcom orvisitors on Instagram at
curlyworldllc.
Thank you so much and I'll seeyou next time.
This podcast is produced by myfavorite producer, susan Kaplan.
(26:33):
Thanks to Dan Strong, ourengineer, and to Michael Schubra
and Chea Ponte, and a veryspecial thank you to Sorrella
May for writing and performingour original theme music.
If your girls could talk.
If your girls could talk.
Speaker 2 (27:07):
If your girls could talk.
Hi, I'm Lorraine Massey, founder of the Curly
Girl Method.
Welcome to If your Curls CouldTalk.
Join us as we talk to our veryspecial guests sharing their
curly hair journeys, and takequestions from you, our
listeners.
This is If your Curls CouldTalk.
I'm excited to introduce you totoday's guest.
(00:23):
She's a Grammy-nominatedrecording artist.
Her music is incredible, hervoice is amazing, and if anyone
is familiar with Curly Girl theHandbook she's on the front
cover.
I'm inviting you to take thisjourney with us.
In meeting Sorelle Ame, we willtake a deep dive into how she
discovered her love for music,jazz and curls.
(00:44):
She also wrote and performedour original theme song, sorel,
if your curls could talk, whatwould they say?
You see, that is the truth,though, isn't it?
That's the truth?
The truth.
Speaker 2 (01:04):
Yeah, they have a mind of their own every day.
Every day is a different dayand every day is a good day and
what you just did.
Speaker 1 (01:14):
What's it called in jazz?
It's called scatting, scatting.
So curls are like scatting in away.
You know, it's improvisation.
Speaker 3 (01:23):
And I think everything is improvisation.
Speaker 1 (01:27):
You know, our life, the music, the hair, yeah, and
if we allow right because you'reright, if we are in truth with
it.
We think we're in control, butwe're very rarely in control,
but we think we are.
But curls are like jazz, aren'tthey Improvisational?
I just want to ask fromDominican Republic.
Speaker 2 (01:49):
and so there was always music in the house like
(02:10):
salsa, bachata, merengue, and mymom and my sister and I we
loved to dance, so to me musicwas made for dancing.
That was my relationship to it.
And then, when I was around 14,I was living in this little
village in France on theoutskirts of Paris, and it's a
village where there's a DjangoReinhardt festival.
(02:31):
Django was a gypsy guitarplayer and he's legendary.
He died in 1953 and was buriedin my village and so every year,
because he was from there, andevery year there's a Django
festival in his honor andgypsies from all across Europe
come in their caravans byhundreds and they set camp in
the field.
(02:51):
And this is I'm talking about alittle village that 2,000
people, and when it's festivaltime it just doubles in size and
it's guitar playing day andnight around the campfire, going
to Django's tomb and justhonoring him with the music.
And so when I was little, Iwould go to the festival every
year just because it was freefor kids and they had stands
(03:14):
with Nutella crepes and stufflike that, and the music was not
what was getting me.
One day I was on my bike andthis little gypsy girl comes and
she's like I can make a towel,and I made her repeat three
times because I couldn'tunderstand her accent.
And then I understood shewanted to borrow my bike and so
I was like yeah, sure, and shecalled her two cousins and they
(03:37):
all three of them hopped on mybike and I was like, oh, and
they were like, come on.
And so I hopped on the bike withthem and we went down the hill
and we became best friends.
And so then I started hangingout in the gypsy campsite and
fell in love completely withtheir way of life, their way of
seeing the world.
(03:58):
They're very in the moment.
They live every day like it'stheir last, and so by getting to
know them and getting to feelthat, I started to understand
their music, which was the same.
It was a music of the presentmoment, a music for community, a
music to share while people arecooking, a music that has no
(04:20):
agenda other than just to feelgood and celebrate.
And that's when I fell in lovewith the music.
Speaker 1 (04:27):
How did you know that you had a?
Speaker 2 (04:28):
voice Because of the response of people.
I don't think I have a voice, Ijust like to sing.
Speaker 1 (04:34):
Yeah, and everyone was saying oh Sorrel, you sound
amazing.
Speaker 2 (04:38):
Yeah, I guess I never stopped and told myself oh, I
want to be a singer.
I just thought singing is fun,I want to do more of that, I
should learn more songs.
And then, after a while, peoplestarted giving me money for it.
Speaker 1 (04:55):
And I was like whoa, I guess I'll keep doing it.
Funny, that's funny, but that'sagain.
(05:15):
That's that organic.
You know the accidental amazingsinger.
How did you go from meetingthis?
Speaker 2 (05:18):
amazing community that you spent so much time with
, to jazz.
What was the journey?
Well, they play jazz.
Jazz is a term that it doesn'treally mean much to me.
Jazz is not a style of music,it's a way of playing any style
of music, and it's reallyimprovised music.
And so they play the standards,they play Sweet Georgia Brown,
they play Take the A-Train, butthey improvise.
They just rip these solos onthe guitar.
(05:40):
And so I started learningDjango's solos by heart.
I started learning StefanGrappelli's solos by heart.
Who's the violinist who playedwith Django?
And then one day I came acrossElla Fitzgerald, and so I
started learning her solos byheart.
And then I wanted to do my own,but I didn't know what to say.
I didn't know if I was supposedto say doobie doo or shoobie,
(06:03):
wah, you know.
And one day there was thefestival and I was supposed to
say doobie doo or shooby, wah,you know.
And one day there was thefestival and I was looking for
my mom because she had my keysor something, and there was
music everywhere and there was aconcert in a boat and I went
down the boat to see if she wasthere, and it was the middle of
the concert and the guitarplayer on stage was scatting.
He was doing the mostridiculous thing I've ever seen.
He was going like and it wasawesome, and at this moment I
(06:28):
realized you just got to comeout with whatever feels natural.
He didn't like practice doingthis sound and it just had to
come out.
And so it sounded good becauseit's real, it's honest, and so
that's when I scattered for thefirst time, and then I just
learned a very valuable lessonthat it's really all about
having fun and challengingyourself and always getting out
(06:49):
of your comfort zone anddiscovering new colors in the
music, new sounds and connecting.
Speaker 1 (06:55):
Yeah it's amazing, that really is amazing, and your
voice is just always ready togo.
Like today.
We had this amazing experienceright in the studio, just having
our own private little session.
Yeah, so as you listen to thispodcast, when you listen to the
introduction, you know who issinging in the introduction, and
(07:17):
it is surreal.
Speaker 2 (07:19):
It was built.
Speaker 1 (07:32):
It was built, wasn't?
It Right in front of your eyes,right in front of our eyes and
our ears, incredible.
So we started with one thing,and then you said oh, why don't
we add this?
And then why don't we add that?
Oh, that needs a shush.
Speaker 2 (07:45):
So the studio is really fun.
The studio is a very differentanimal than the stage.
I thrive in the stage because Ido so much of it and I love the
connection with the band andwith the audience and I love
getting up on stage and notknowing what's going to happen
and being all ears and goingwith whatever happens.
(08:06):
You know if it doesn't go asplanned, which it's supposed to
not go as planned, and itdoesn't go as planned, it
doesn't mean that's wrong.
It means oh, listen even more.
And in the studio it's kind oflike you're under a microscope
and I love that as well.
It's a whole nother side of mymusicianship that's challenged
(08:26):
and I love it.
Speaker 1 (08:27):
And what you said about listening is the listening
part, isn't it?
It's like you said.
You know, I probably seecertain things in curls that
nobody else does, and you hearthings that nobody else does.
Like that you can't trainanyone.
It probably is just there,isn't it?
I mean you can train someone toa certain is.
Just there, isn't it?
Speaker 2 (08:45):
I mean you can train someone to a certain degree, but
I think if everyone can learnto listen, it's something that
we kind of forget how to do.
We all know how to listen andthen we start forgetting because
we're distracted so much by somany things, but also then the
ego takes a bigger space and wecan't listen because the ego is
so loud.
But yeah, being a good musicianstarts with listening, which is
(09:08):
why I love living in NewOrleans, because the cool thing
about New Orleans and itreminded me when I first visited
there, it reminded me of beingaround with the Gypsies, where
the music is not only formusicians, it's for everybody,
and you are a part of the music,whether you have an instrument
in your hand or not.
Because if you're present, ifyou're listening, if you're
(09:30):
actively listening, you're ahuge part of the music.
Speaker 1 (09:34):
Actively listening.
Yeah, that's really reallybeautiful, beautiful way of
describing that.
But you're not only in NewOrleans, you're also in Costa
Rica, right?
Speaker 2 (09:46):
I'm everywhere.
Lorraine, Costa Rica is mynature home.
It's a place where I go towrite songs.
Speaker 1 (09:55):
And you said that you lost your phone at one point.
Speaker 2 (09:58):
Yeah, I decided after I lost my phone.
I decided to not get a new onefor nine months and it was
amazing.
Yeah, like in two weeks.
In two weeks I felt detox.
I could see clearer.
I had physical symptoms thatwere.
It was really, really crazy.
I could see clearer, everythingwas sharper and I could
(10:19):
remember things much better.
Speaker 1 (10:21):
After only two weeks yeah, yes, we, we all should do
that you're going to be teaching.
You said two, maybe in CostaRica.
Speaker 2 (10:35):
I have a vision of organizing music workshops over
there.
To me it's almost like it's theopposite of learning things,
it's unlearning.
It's more of that, it's moreunlearning misconceptions that
we have, that a lot of mystudents come and they're like,
well, I don't really have avoice or I don't know how to
(10:58):
belt or I don't know how to readmusic, so I feel like I
couldn't sing jazz and I'm likeunlearn all of that.
I don't read music and lookwhere I am.
And it's really about listening, remembering things that we
already know and getting rid ofall these obstacles that we put
ourselves, you know, in front ofus.
Speaker 1 (11:17):
Yeah, I call them obstacle, illusions.
Speaker 2 (11:22):
Of course you do.
Speaker 1 (11:23):
Right, I mean, it's so true.
It's like you were saying I'mlearning.
I feel that's what I have beendoing with people.
You know, we're trained ashairdressers to straighten
everyone out, and so I have tounlearn everything.
We've been trained to godownwards with everything,
whereas actually curls areupwards.
You know they spring up.
We've been pulling them down inthis like locked straight
jacket position.
(11:43):
So it's a similar.
We're always looking foranalogies.
Speaker 2 (11:46):
Exactly yeah.
When I'm improvising on thestage, some students are like I
have ideas in my head and Idon't know how to make them come
out.
And to me it's the opposite.
Don't't start at the head, openyour mouth and just allow what
wants to come out to come outand fall in love with that.
Speaker 1 (12:06):
You see it, that's totally what I could use that
for curly, like, stop thinkingabout what you want for it, let
it show you what it is.
Speaker 2 (12:15):
Yeah, you taught me with the, with the frizz.
Yeah, when I came to you lastyear, it was and I was like, oh,
frizz, and you showed me howfrizz is a defense mechanism.
Speaker 1 (12:26):
Yeah, there's never going to be a cure for frizz
ever.
It's never going to go away.
We can try and eradicate it,which most products say things
like that but it's not healthyfor the frizz.
The best treatment you could dois go to Costa Rica in the rain
and allow your hair to justopen up to the atmosphere.
That would be the besttreatment you could give your
hair in the world.
Take a week off.
(12:47):
Take a day off, say, if you'renot doing anything.
When was the last time our hairwas naked?
Probably the moment we wereborn, and then we got washed
with detergent the minute wecame into this world.
So we've been putting stuff onus ever since, and it's so
lovely to let your hair be freeand actually feel it.
Speaker 2 (13:06):
Yeah, I have a question, maureen.
Yes, what do I do as a personwho travels a lot, who lives out
of her suitcase and when I'mnot, I'm in the middle of the
jungle.
What do I do if I don't have myfavorite hair product?
Speaker 1 (13:22):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (13:23):
And I have to perform , or whatever.
What can I find in the kitchen,yeah, or at the grocery store?
Speaker 1 (13:28):
Okay, so it's a really good question.
The best thing is aloe vera gelfrom the aloe vera plant.
Speaker 2 (13:35):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (13:36):
The best thing because it's water soluble.
It goes in and it comes out.
The thing is, we need productsthat when they go in, they
shouldn't stay in and they stayin for too long and then they
make their hair gummy and dulland it plasticizes the hair and
then it stops the hair fromallowing it to go to the
atmosphere where it wants to,naturally.
(13:56):
And coconut water, not coconutoil.
Coconut water, because thewater is sugary In the sugars.
We put sugars in a lot ofproducts too.
We can make a gel from it.
Speaker 2 (14:08):
Oh, I didn't know.
Speaker 1 (14:09):
You could make a spray out of coconut water that
mixed also with the aloe veragel.
You can rinse your hair withwater, because water is an
amazing elixir.
The only thing is it doesn'tgive us moisture, but it really
cleanses when your hair isreally soaking.
Get the aloe vera gel and youjust squeeze it in slowly and I
(14:30):
think if you let it dry quietly,you'll probably get a lovely
curl.
Speaker 2 (14:34):
I've tried aloe vera gel and it works really well.
Speaker 1 (14:37):
It's so pure If you can keep it in the fridge.
You can buy your aloe vera gelfrom anywhere.
Now, keep it in the fridge.
You can mix it with a bit ofcoconut water, a few of your
favorite essences, like anorange essence that you can
actually cook with.
We are organic.
We're natural.
That's what we did a long timeago, you know.
Anyway, we must have like allthe things that people used.
It's like farm to table.
(14:58):
They say farm to table.
Farm to table was always aroundbecause everything we got was
from the farm.
So this idea of farm to tableis a new thing.
It really isn't, but farm tohair would be.
It's really good.
So you can use some of thethings in your environment.
We were born in water, right?
So in a way, there's a reasonwhy we love being by the ocean
(15:18):
because we are water.
We're amphibious in a way.
We were born in water, we camefrom water.
Our sweat is salty, our bloodis salty, so we come out of the
water and we dry up on land.
Anything that comes out of thewater, like the seaweed, is
moving around and then as soonas it's on land, it just dries
up.
So we're always in thiscontinuous flux of dehydration,
(15:42):
hydration.
So that's why we have to keepdrinking water.
We have to keep doing thesethings.
We're never not going to be notdoing anything to our hair.
We'll always have to beapplying some kind of moisture
in order to move through.
Speaker 2 (15:54):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (15:55):
Thank you so much for being with us.
Thank you, Lorraine.
Much love to you and the joythat you spread for everyone Joy
, hope that we all feel.
Thank you.
Next, I love this section iscalled Calling All Curls.
This is where curly girls fromall over the world call in and
(16:16):
ask me any question they wantabout curly hair.
Who do we have on the phoneright now?
Hi, this is Maya.
Welcome, Ask us anything.
Speaker 3 (16:33):
Okay, yeah, I mean, I'm so excited to be talking to
you right now.
I'm 22.
I'm living in Somerville,Massachusetts, and I'm having a
real trouble with my hair.
I have curly, wavy hair and Ican't seem to figure out how to
keep it.
Either my hair is really reallydry and almost brittle and
frizzy, or I can keep the curl,but then it becomes really heavy
(16:56):
and oily and I'm wondering ifyou have any advice as to how to
keep the curl.
Hold my curl, but without itfeeling like it's so much
product that it becomes oily.
Are you using oils in your hairProducts that say there's oil, I
use a product's a reallylightweight oil to help with the
frizz and I find that thathelps hold the curl in my hair
(17:17):
but makes your hair oily at theroot yes, yeah also, I find my
hair gets really oily, reallyquickly yeah.
Speaker 1 (17:24):
So oil and silicone, they're not water soluble.
So it is an anti-umectant, soit's not allowing humidity in,
but over time the cuticlebecomes sealed.
And then what's happening withyour scalp?
Because it's probably coveringyour scalp, your scalp is going
on overdrive because it's notbreathing.
A lot of the oils are silicone.
(17:45):
They call them oils, but a lotof the time they're silicone.
Silicone is a very inexpensive,cheap byproduct.
It is not really meant for hair.
Silicones are fantastic foryour car windows, your bathroom
sealant, for your shower, butwhen it comes to our hair, it
does give us that quick fix.
So that day when you put it on,you really love it for a minute
and then all of a sudden itturns on you.
(18:08):
So it's not sustainable.
So the scalp is an extension ofour facial skin, but you would
never put any of that stuff onour face, would we?
So what I would do if I was youis I get your products, the ones
that you're using, put them ina bit of water and if they mix
they could be water soluble, butI doubt it.
You'll probably find that ifyou put them in water they won't
(18:28):
mix, so that means they're notwater soluble.
That's not good for us.
We need things that go in andcome out.
We don't want things that go inthat never comes out.
It's not vegas, but we needsustainable products that keeps
the ph balance of our hair as itis.
If you're not doing anythingwhen we can try and detox from
(18:49):
everything, don't put anythingin your hair for a while.
Rinse it with sulfate free orsilicone free conditioner.
Just use water.
Let it breathe.
That is so good to know.
Thank you so much.
You're welcome.
So may I ask you a question?
Do you brush and comb your hair?
Speaker 3 (19:05):
I brush it once I detangle it, yeah, and then's it
, and then I don't brush itagain.
Speaker 1 (19:10):
Okay, so is that once a day you do that?
Speaker 3 (19:13):
Maybe.
Yeah, I am unfortunately achronic hair washer, and so it
ends up being once a day.
Speaker 1 (19:20):
No, but that's your cup of coffee.
A lot of people have this theirhabits.
This is your habit.
So, whatever you do, if you arebrushing your hair which I
don't recommend, I mean I feellike using your fingers to
detangle gives you a connectionto the hair that you will not
get from a brush.
So if you have a knot with abrush, you beat it out with your
(19:41):
fingers.
With conditioner in it, youwill gently pry it out because
you know every time you hearthat rip, it's a breakage that
accumulates one day, 365 days ayear.
You do that.
Your hair is exhausted.
It's exhausted from beingbeaten by a brush.
So if you are brushing yourhair on a dry surface, that will
(20:04):
fuse and confuse your cuticlesand your your hair, because
there's no fluidity in that.
If you are going to putanything through your hair which
I don't recommend but if you'regoing to, your hair must be
highly conditioned.
So there's a fluidity whenyou're organizing your curls
during the cleansing process,but do not brush or comb on dry
(20:25):
hair because that will ravageyour hair.
Speaker 3 (20:27):
I promise I will definitely do my best to be
gentler with my hair.
I really appreciate.
Speaker 1 (20:32):
Oh, you're welcome, thank you for your questions and
take care.
Thank you, you too, bye, thankyou, bye.
It's not enough to want to havehealthy hair.
You have to apply the advicethat I'm giving you just long
enough to see the difference,and then, from there, you'll be
on autopilot and habits willhave changed.
(20:55):
So let's fast forward and checkin with Maya.
Hi, how are you?
I'm good, how are you Good, sothank you for following up with
us.
So I'm really curious how areyour curls today?
Speaker 3 (21:15):
My hair could not be more different than it was a
couple of months ago.
In so many ways it's honestlyshocking, like if you go back
two or three months to now, notonly have I noticed a difference
, but so many people in my lifehave noticed a difference too in
the health of my hair.
Speaker 1 (21:29):
It's music to my curls when I hear that again,
it's not what you've been doing,it's what you've not been doing
.
That's the difference, isn't it?
Speaker 3 (21:38):
Yes, my friends used to make fun of me.
I would wash my hair once,sometimes twice a day, and now I
wash my hair at most everyother day.
I try for every three days.
Great, and I don't brush myhair anymore.
Great, oh my God.
I let it dry and that's it.
I don't shampoo my hair anymore.
(21:58):
Have you been using asulfate-free cleanser?
I've been using yoursulfate-free cleanser actually.
Speaker 1 (22:05):
Oh good, and have you been leaving a little bit of
conditioner in the ends, becauseit's the ends that really need
baby in too, because they'vebeen around a bit longer.
Speaker 3 (22:15):
I have Good, and if I think back, even three months
ago, I was experiencing way moreshedding than I probably should
have Right now.
That is so not a concern.
My hair feels healthy andstrong and is breaking less.
Wow, that's amazing.
I'm just so happy with that.
Speaker 1 (22:33):
Oh, maya, I'm so happy to hear this, and our hair
it's.
You know, we wear it every dayof our life, so it's not enough
to want to have healthy hairanymore.
We have to get into a littleroutine.
You just stay with it.
Keep your hair hydrated, pHbalance, free from all these
chemicals and silicones andlaminates and things that build
up, and your hair will breathe.
(22:54):
Your hair knows what to do.
It really does.
We're the ones that get in theway a lot of the time, totally.
If you really do talk aboutyour habits that have broken,
what were the ones that you feelhave been broken and they're
gone, you don't need themanymore I think brushing my hair
is the big one, yes, andwashing it every day.
Speaker 3 (23:11):
For a long time, I washed my hair every day because
I felt like my hair wasn'tclean unless I shampooed and
washed it every day, and that'snot how I feel anymore.
Good, and I also feel like I'membracing the wave.
My hair is not the curliest,but it's very wavy when taken
care of properly, and I oh oilthat properly and I oh oil.
(23:37):
That's the big one.
Sorry, I also put oil in myhair after every wash and I
haven't put oil in my hair inthree months.
Speaker 1 (23:39):
Great, and I see the difference.
And it's moisture retention.
That's amazing.
That's so amazing.
You'll see from now on, too,and you'll find that you won't
have as many dead ends, youwon't be needing as many
haircuts, because your hair willjust be growing.
It won't be as distressed as itwas when we talked last.
They're two very big onesbrushing, which fuse and confuse
the cuticles, oils whichlaminate and build up on the
(24:02):
hair.
So you've just been using yourfingers to detangle.
Speaker 3 (24:05):
I'm definitely trying to be very gentle and I think
it's breaking less.
I was always someone who usedto have a lot of breakage at the
top of my hair from just beingreally rough with a brush.
Speaker 1 (24:15):
Have you been giving yourself some scalp massages?
So when you sit quietly, whenyou're on the plane, when you're
traveling, sometimes just sitin and quietly give yourself a
nice little scalp massage.
It's so good for our hairfollicles.
There's so many blood vesselsaround them For them to just be
touched and gently nourished byjust your touch.
It's so good for the hair.
(24:37):
I think it's a very healthy.
Part of healthy hair is to giveyourself regular scalp massages
.
Speaker 3 (24:44):
That's good to know.
I didn't know that.
I will incorporate that into myroutine.
Speaker 1 (24:48):
And you've stopped touching it as much.
Are you still putting your hairup and down, up and down, or
are you allowing it to just bedown?
Speaker 3 (24:55):
I put it up in really nice soft scrunchies rather
than in the harder blackelastics.
Good, and when I do put it up,I put it up on the top of my hat
in a very loose bun.
Speaker 1 (25:06):
Good, but it's good that you're aware now it's the
beginning.
There's going to be so many newthings, things that we forget
about.
You know, even just putting ourbag on our shoulders, our
backpacks when we're hiking, ourhair gets trapped.
So these are just little thingsthat you'll just be aware of.
Again, our hair is very fragile.
It's a fine fiber and wheneveryou hear a break or a tug or a
(25:28):
pull, you might just get onehair, two hairs coming out.
But over time once a week,twice a day, five times a day it
builds up.
But I feel like you're doinggreat and I really am just so
happy and proud that you'reloving your hair.
Speaker 3 (25:45):
again.
You're falling back in lovewith your hair.
I am, and it's so much thanksto you.
So thank you so much forteaching me everything that I
know.
Speaker 1 (25:51):
Oh well, have a great rest of your day.
Thank you, maya.
Thank you, bye, bye, take care.
I'd like to thank our listenersand our beautiful guest, sorrel
Amei.
Thank you so much, maya, forcalling in.
Be sure to follow and share.
If your Curls Could Talk,wherever you get your podcast,
(26:13):
it will mean the world to us andit really makes a difference.
If anybody would like to submita question, please send it to
info at curlyworldcom orvisitors on Instagram at
curlyworldllc.
Thank you so much and I'll seeyou next time.
This podcast is produced by myfavorite producer, susan Kaplan.
(26:33):
Thanks to Dan Strong, ourengineer, and to Michael Schubra
and Chea Ponte, and a veryspecial thank you to Sorrella
May for writing and performingour original theme music.
If your girls could talk.
If your girls could talk.
Speaker 2 (27:07):
If your girls could talk.
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