February 24, 2025 • 48 mins
In Episode 8 of IMPACT, hosts Jeremy Melton, Daniel Brown, and Maddie Atkinson dive deep into clear communication in leadership. Through candid discussions and real-life examples, they explore how being clear, confident, complete, consistent, and courteous in your messaging can build trust, empower teams, and transform leadership dynamics.
Join the conversation as the team unpacks practical strategies for delivering purpose-driven messages, avoiding miscommunication pitfalls, and embracing active listening. Whether you’re leading a team, mentoring others, or striving to improve your own communication skills, this episode offers actionable insights to help you lead with authenticity and impact.
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Episode Transcript
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SPEAKER_01 (00:20):
Welcome back to Impact Podcast.
It's Jeremy Melton, DanielBrown, and Maddie Atkinson.
We are here to talk aboutleadership for the next hour or
so, maybe half hour.
But a highlight question, whatkind of impact are you making on
the world that we live in?
And our goal on this show is tohope to create or generate a
(00:44):
desire to understand it soonerthan later.
This week is episode numbereight.
I believe, and we are talkingabout the mandate of clarity.
The initial mandate was, wetalked about the mandate of
clarity, but essentially it'sclarity in communication, right?
So we're going to talk about howimportant that is.
(01:06):
Last week, let's talk about lastweek real quick.
We talked about, I think weinterviewed my brother last
week, right?
That's right.
So y'all, we got to meet BrandonHoltsinger.
Let's do some takeaways.
Whoever wants to go first.
SPEAKER_03 (01:24):
Well, I was a spectator on this episode and
probably not as engaged as Ishould have been as, you know,
on the other side of the camera.
But man, he had a lot of goodstuff to share about his journey
with his faith.
And that part of it was reallyinspiring to me.
(01:45):
And maybe some of that was saidoff camera afterwards, if I'm
not mistaken, Jeremy, but justthe relationship that he's got.
And very, very, very new is whatit seemed like and sounded like
to me.
But he definitely, as a leader,he's, you know, Learning a lot
and embracing that learning andhis journey.
(02:08):
And it was just really great totalk to him.
I hadn't seen him in years.
It was a good time.
SPEAKER_01 (02:13):
It was somewhat of, I'll call it a revelation to me.
I had not, I mean, really, he'smy brother, but he kind of got
intimate, especially after thepodcast, which was really cool,
about his faith.
And so I enjoyed that for sure.
Maddie, what did you think?
SPEAKER_00 (02:29):
I thought it was...
clear to me when you...
One of the first episodes, Ithink you said that he was the
most humble person that youknew.
One of.
One of.
And it was just clear.
He was just so humble.
You know, like, I mean, there'sjust people that exert that
and...
SPEAKER_01 (02:48):
Well, you know, several times during the
podcast, he would just say...
I mean, I think he even said,I'm a dummy.
If you were to quote him...
100%.
I'm a dummy.
Yep.
And how many people do you hearsay that, especially in...
in the form of leadership thathe's in, you just don't hear
that often.
And look, it's not fake.
It's genuine.
(03:09):
And he's not a dummy by anystretch.
But the fact that he embracesthat, look, I don't know it all.
Everybody knows more than me.
It's humility defined.
And so, yeah, that was good.
So I hope one day when peopleare asked about a takeaway from
me that they say that about me,right?
That's what we aspire to.
(03:31):
Very good.
So my takeaway was that.
I was going to say that as well.
And also that his leadership hadchanged through the years.
That was a pretty big deal.
And he talked about how heevolved in his leadership.
He talked about...
He was real quick to talk aboutthe people that got him there,
(03:52):
too, which...
The coolest part of what you doas a leader is later on down the
road, you give credit back wherecredit's due.
And that's, in my opinion,that's one of the coolest
things.
Go ahead.
SPEAKER_00 (04:04):
One thing I said last time, and it was off
camera, off we weren'trecording, was leadership is
living.
SPEAKER_01 (04:09):
Oh, yes, you did.
I just remembered that.
And we said, hey, that's anotherMaddie quote.
Some of that good stuff thatcomes out of Maddie.
You know, exactly.
It is living.
And I think I even put that on–I posted that on Facebook the
next week.
SPEAKER_03 (04:23):
And to clarify, you meant like you feel it like it's
a living, breathing thing.
SPEAKER_00 (04:27):
Yeah, like when I think of living, I think it's
ever-changing.
You know, it's like you– I likehow your brother talked about he
– his leadership over the yearhas changed.
It's a great way to put it.
SPEAKER_03 (04:42):
Yeah.
It's a great way to put it.
And it's kind of the same thingthat Jeremy has kind of said is
like– You never stop.
You never get to the finishline.
It's never done.
The work is never done.
To be a leader, you have tocontinue trying to be
intentional about being aleader.
SPEAKER_01 (04:54):
There you go, intentional.
SPEAKER_03 (04:55):
There we
SPEAKER_01 (04:55):
go.
And then we talked aboutrelentless.
All these cool words.
So look, that was a great, greattime last week.
Next week we're going to have,today we're going to teach,
right?
And then next week we're goingto have Nick Austin.
So actually going to have theguy that taught Brandon and the
guy we were talking about.
He's going to come next week.
Yeah, so we're excited aboutthat.
(05:17):
Good.
Cool.
All right, so kicking off here,we're going to talk about
clarity and in communication.
So somebody tell me a definitionfor clarity.
SPEAKER_03 (05:28):
Well, clarity was the second mandate of the list
of mandates that we wentthrough.
And you expressed it with the,you tell them how to do it, and
then you show them how to do it.
And then what, did you do ittwice?
You
SPEAKER_00 (05:44):
let them do it.
SPEAKER_03 (05:45):
Go do it again.
SPEAKER_01 (05:46):
You tell them, you show them, then you have them
show you, right?
That's right.
And so we'll get to that in thistoday, you know, the
fundamentals, what we call theblocking and tackling.
We're going to get to that.
And we'll actually teach itagain.
So I think I had alluded to itthen, but we'll go over it today
for sure.
Go ahead, Maddie.
(06:07):
Do you have something?
Okay, so clarity is the abilityto convey a message without
confusion.
Right.
It's kind of simple.
Yeah.
It sounds simple, but oftentimespeople are not clear.
And one of the biggest thingsabout leadership is that if
you're not clear, then you'renot going to be leading because
(06:29):
people get confused.
And where there's chaos, there'sno leadership.
Right.
So it's funny.
Just you can pick out clarity ineverything that you do.
And with your kids or with workor if you ever have a task that
needs to be done and you've gotmultiple people doing it, you
can figure out real quick howimportant it is to be clear if
(06:49):
you want to execute it good.
And
SPEAKER_03 (06:52):
I think I said this before, but I feel like this is
one of my weak points as far asleadership goes when it comes to
clarity.
And I think it's just part ofme, you know, like...
making expectations and, but,but just trust.
Like when I lead, I just want tosay like, Hey, do this and it's
okay to do it your way.
(07:12):
But some people would do betterand even like it more if I was
more clear and like exactlylaying out what needs to be done
and what's
SPEAKER_01 (07:20):
expected.
Look, dude, people love to betold clearly what to do and look
at, I'm not a doctor, but whenyou do, when you're told, Hey,
do this or you're asked to dosomething and then you do it and
you succeed and I mean, there'sa chemical release, right?
So it's just– but being clear isalways a helpful part of that.
(07:42):
And so it's a super– but thefact that you acknowledge that
it's something that you shouldwork on is good, right?
That's humility.
It's something I've beenthinking about, like something I
want to be better at.
So look, a lot of people sayrepeat, right?
And we'll talk about that.
But repeating what you've saidor asked someone to do is part
(08:05):
of it.
But it's not all of it.
But being repetitive about it.
But you can get too repetitiveas well.
All right, so let's talk aboutthe communication piece first.
So the first thing we have to dois establish that there's four
major categories ofcommunication.
And that's what we're goingto...
There's four categories.
Verbal, nonverbal, visual, andwritten.
(08:26):
Okay, so the ways that youcommunicate things...
change based on thecircumstances that you find
yourself in.
And so if we're going tocommunicate verbally or
non-verbally, which I don't knowall the statistics, whether it's
90% of what you communicate iscommunicated non-verbally, but a
lot of what you communicate isyour demeanor, eye contact and
(08:47):
looking and talking in yourhands and stuff and so forth.
But visual communication andwritten communication, but
there's four types, and weparticipate in them every single
day, especially leader.
So in communication, in thosethings, in those four things,
you're going to have the thingsthat I've written down here that
(09:09):
I would say needs to live insidethe leader, okay?
And this is number one, clarity.
Number two is confidence.
Number three, you need to becomplete, right?
And clarity and being completeis two different things because
you can be really clear on halfof the request and leave some
(09:29):
stuff off and make a mistake.
You need to be consistent inyour communication, and you need
to be courteous in yourcommunication.
Any of those things, if one ofthose is not there, then the
leader has not done their job atpresenting it properly.
So, again, it sounds trivial,but as a leader, when you, and
(09:53):
if you're listening right now,if you're going to communicate
properly, a task or a request topeople that are reporting to
you, you need to be clear,confident, complete, consistent,
and courteous every single time.
And so, you know, how do youremember that?
I don't know, but I can tell youthat when I read the, and
(10:14):
somewhere I got this out of abook.
I told you I don't ever takecredit for anything.
This is duplicated, butsomewhere, wherever I got this
from, I actually, in myleadership journey, sat down and
began to figure out how to saythings in this order, okay?
Fundamentally, how do I presentthis problem to these group of
(10:34):
folks and cover being clear,being confident, being complete,
being consistent, and beingcourteous?
And then once I realized that,man, that's working, right?
And then you just duplicate it.
So it's almost like buildingthat muscle.
And reps is how you buildmuscle, right?
So taking your time and doingthose things.
Can you guys think of a timewhere you've had someone
(10:58):
communicate something to you, aleader, that did not do those
things and it resulted in chaos?
Anybody?
Anything?
SPEAKER_00 (11:07):
All the time.
SPEAKER_01 (11:10):
Give me an example without incriminating anybody.
SPEAKER_03 (11:14):
I know.
I mean, I'm struggling to find aspecific example, but I'm
really, like, enjoying this listand I, like, can totally,
like...
Like, I feel it.
And just like you said, like, beclear, be confident, be
complete.
And I love that, like you said,like, I'm going to go through
each one of these steps and younotice the difference.
Oh, yeah.
(11:34):
Like, I'm sitting here, I'mwriting this stuff down.
Like, I want to do this stuff.
SPEAKER_00 (11:39):
One of the things that's hard for me, like, even
at work, and hopefully I don'tget in trouble for this, but...
consistency is hard i think it'slike we go on these trips and
you go to like a conference orsomething and then when you come
back you're just rejuvenated youknow and you're like ready to be
a leader and you're ready to doall that and then you have so
(12:01):
many aspirations and then likethree months and you just start
going down and it's just notconsistent so then you know you
have the first few months you'rejust on it you're you're game on
you're ready and then it justkind of starts trickling away
and the consistency of you knowcommunicating well and you know
(12:23):
getting the team together foryou know uplifting team building
activity it just goes away
SPEAKER_03 (12:29):
yeah and so that gave me a little thing in my
head the consistent part andi've got some experience with
like like having to report todifferent steps of management in
the same company like likemultiple people telling me
things like this is how we wantto do it but they're not on the
(12:51):
same page right and they'retelling me different things and
then it gets to a point whereokay like not consistent i i
can't who do i i gotta choosesomeone to actually follow and i
mean That's a good one.
Who's writing the check?
Okay.
Yeah, that one.
No,
SPEAKER_01 (13:10):
let's do that.
That's good.
So look, we're going to unpackthese a little more, and this is
where it gets fun.
So when you're talking aboutclarity, so I said there was
four types of communication, andinside of those there's five
ways that the leader isresponsible for communicating.
And so each of those ways can bedone in each– type of
(13:34):
communication or form ofcommunication, but we're going
to start with clarity.
So at the end of the day, it'simportant to be clear, right?
Period.
We know that.
But be clear about what?
What should we be clear about,right?
Because you think, well, whatare we being clear about?
Well, you know, I ask y'all orsomeone to do something.
(13:58):
And, you know, what are wedoing?
What is the purpose, right?
So there's a reason that I wantyou to do that.
So the first thing you want tobe clear about is the purpose.
And a lot of leaders don't thinkthat.
They think, well, it's because Isaid so.
And it kills me when people...
Look, my mama used to tell methat when I was a kid.
(14:19):
And look, at the end of the day,she's probably right.
But that's not the real reason.
Like, you don't want me to dothat because I said so.
Well, that's not...
Think of something else, okay?
Because what's the reason?
Is it because I don't want tobreak my leg?
You don't want me to break myleg?
Yeah.
Okay, well, just tell me that,right?
And I'm picking on my mom.
(14:39):
But look, I heard this teacherone time, and he said, don't
tell your kids that.
You want them to understand whythey're not doing it, not
because you said so.
SPEAKER_00 (14:49):
That's so hard.
SPEAKER_01 (14:50):
Oh, man.
Not to say that.
It is hard, but it's soimportant.
Look, if you don't hear anythingelse this whole podcast, don't
tell your kids that.
No.
Really.
SPEAKER_03 (14:58):
And I was just having this conversation with
somebody else, and it's like,yeah, don't tell your kids
because I said so.
And there was something that Itook away, and it was something
about let these kids understandor live, understand why they are
living the life that they'reliving.
Yeah.
And give them the perspective
SPEAKER_01 (15:16):
that they deserve.
That's right.
Look, you don't want them to,because I said so, you want them
to ask the questions.
And if you always say because Isaid so, they're never going to
ask the question.
That's right.
So...
Just like you want your kids tounderstand why they're doing
what they're doing, you alsowant your people to understand
why you're doing what you'redoing.
No, we're not doing that at workanymore.
(15:37):
We're doing it this way.
Well, why is that?
Never tell them because I saidso.
Always give the purpose.
Again, the first part of beingclear is being clear about your
purpose and communicating that.
Another way to be clear is to beshort and concise.
(15:58):
Simple, right?
So, you know, and I'm trying tothink of an example.
If you guys think of one, youknow, stop me.
But think about short, simplecommunication.
Anytime you have a big, bigtask, you don't want to go
around mumbling and bumbling abunch of words and just
(16:18):
unnecessary words.
Just get to the point.
SPEAKER_03 (16:22):
What it takes me to is, and I know it's not
management that we're talkingabout, but management is
leading.
We've established that.
But the difference betweenmanaging and micromanaging,
that's kind of where it takesme.
Keep things simple.
Keep things concise.
Have trust.
And don't try to nitpick everylittle detail.
(16:43):
Keep it simple.
This is what we're doing.
Other than that, do it your way.
But like I said, that's kind ofmy weakness and where I
struggle.
How much direction is needed?
Where's the balance?
There's a balance.
SPEAKER_01 (16:57):
Well, and the way to do that, and this will come out
later, but you always be curiousas a leader.
And when you say, well, howmuch?
I don't want to micromanage.
Lord, I do not want tomicromanage.
And so...
Look, along with the seasons ina leader's life and a leader's
journey, he changes.
At the same time, he has to beable to lead in different ways
(17:20):
based on the call at that time.
And so I'll tell you, it's kindof like we get a new sheriff in
town.
He's got to come in.
I don't want to say he's ironfist, but he's got to come in
and not micromanage, but he'sgot to come in and like
confident.
This is how we're doing this.
And at the same time, he's gotto ask questions.
(17:45):
So three years into his electioncycle, he'll be different.
You take a leader and put themin charge of a tribe of people,
and that leader will have to dothese things exceptionally well
up front, and then he'll getsome grace later.
(18:07):
But if he goes in with grace atfirst, he'll get ran over.
Okay, so anyway.
That's right.
We're getting off track, but I'mjust saying.
All right, so the training thatwe talked about that you just
alluded to earlier, Daniel, wastell them, have them tell you,
show them, have them show you.
So, Maddie, if you go to workMonday or Tuesday or whatever
(18:29):
day and you need somebody to dosomething, then you tell them
and then you just say, so whatare you doing?
What did I just ask you to do?
And then they'll tell you.
And you do that so that you hearthem and they heard you
correctly.
So one time I was at a job siteand I told a crew to do
something.
(18:50):
And I didn't ask them to tell mewhat I asked them to do.
And so I left.
And when I came back, it wasn'tthat way.
And I said, what did y'all do?
Oh, well, we thought.
And then it turned out thatafter I had left, there was an
argument.
between the guys about how I hadsaid to do it, okay, in what
order.
And they didn't do it in theright order, and so we had to
(19:11):
redo it.
And I was really upset, and Iwas like, dude, what are y'all
doing?
And they're like, well, we wereconfused.
And I said, well, why didn't youjust call me?
Anyway, the point is, is Irealized that day, okay, next
time I go to that same crew,hey, guys, please blah, blah,
blah, blah, blah, do this andthat, right?
What did I say?
(19:32):
How did I say to do that?
Well, you said blah, blah, blah,blah, blah.
And then at that point, okay,you're good.
Yep, that's right.
See you.
All right.
Then you go back and try it.
Have them repeat it to you.
And that goes the same with yourkids.
Because sometimes people don'thear you say what you think you
said, or sometimes you might notsay what you think you meant to
(19:53):
say.
So it's so important as aleader, which we are, to
communicate clearly.
And part of communicating withclarity is...
repeating it so you can repeatit or most what i would prefer
to have you do is have themrepeat it to you right so those
are fundamentally those arethings that you can do
(20:14):
actionable items that you can doto change your communication so
all right so we don't leave anyroom for misunderstanding all
right so that that that is thatclear What did I say?
SPEAKER_00 (20:27):
I like the short.
Well, I want to get back to theshort, but like simple.
Yeah.
Because we do a lot of lettersto members and things like that.
And it's like sometimes when theleaders put it all together,
it's like they're trying toover, not exaggerate, but just
like there's way too much detailin it that really doesn't need
(20:49):
to be in it.
And so it's like it's better todo.
bullet points.
So we've found out just through,I mean, through trial and error,
but that's a written, you know,communication that you're
sending out that you've got tomake sure that it's, you're
going to have the one personthat reads the entire thing and
absorb every single thing.
And you're going to have peoplethat just go for the bullet
(21:10):
points or the whatever, and thenthey'll pick up what they pick
up.
And so it's like, we've, we've,we got to, we've learned a lot
just through writtencommunication.
communications to members thatwhat to do and what not to do.
But we've learned being short,sweet, to the point.
We get a lot more positivefeedback.
SPEAKER_01 (21:31):
Absolutely.
Well, you know, look, I have abusiness partner friend of mine
and, you know, I send the emailsand look, I probably over
communicate.
I've been told that before andI'll send an email and it'll be
seven paragraphs long and reallyIt didn't need to be but three
sentences.
(21:51):
And so he gives me a hard time.
You sent one of your novels tome, and I'm like, bro, that's
important.
Everything in there is superimportant, and I want it to be
clear.
But if you don't send thatclear, if you're not clear, it's
a tremendous defeat coming inleadership every time.
SPEAKER_03 (22:12):
Well, and it takes me back to ownership.
If you're not communicatingclearly and giving them the
directions that's needed andthen they don't do what needs to
be done, that's on
SPEAKER_01 (22:22):
you.
It's on you.
That's right.
You own it.
And so when you're really clear,you can say, dude, I spelled it
out.
So then you can manageexpectations.
SPEAKER_02 (22:29):
That's
SPEAKER_01 (22:29):
right.
Right?
And so we'll get into all that.
But look, the next one isconfidence.
This one's huge.
People don't follow people thataren't confident.
They just not.
They'll sit back.
And if you want someone to racein behind you, be confident.
Okay?
And you have to be certainbecause certainty breeds
(22:53):
confidence.
And being 100% certain, whetheryou're right or wrong, about
what you're doing.
And I tell people, you have tobelieve in what you're saying
and believe in what you'reteaching.
And if you don't believe it,then don't do it.
And another thing, don't ever...
Don't ever ask someone to buyinto what you're trying to sell.
(23:17):
I don't know if you've ever donethat, but I've done it.
I've had it done to me.
And it's not good to do that.
Explain.
Well, so if, let's say
SPEAKER_00 (23:26):
we...
Did you say explain?
Yeah.
Okay, that's what I
SPEAKER_01 (23:29):
was...
So you and I have a plan.
So we're in business together.
And you want to paint the...
I don't know, I'm trying tothink.
You want to paint the car blue,okay?
I want to paint the car red.
And you say, well, Jeremy, thecar being blue would be better
for our business in the longrun.
(23:49):
And I say, no, I think it'd bered would be better.
Well, a lot of people would say,at some point, one of y'all just
has to submit, okay?
And that's true, probably true.
Or you just change the coloraltogether.
The problem is, is if Iconcede...
and let you paint it the colorthat you...
Let's just say you sit me downand you talk to me and you're
(24:12):
trying to convince me to paintit blue.
And I say, Daniel, it needs tobe red.
And we have misalignment.
If I ever concede and let youpaint it blue, then I would just
say this.
You're now in a state ofdiscord.
And you don't want to be there.
(24:34):
Because...
later down the road, whether itbe in our negotiations or
whatever, I'm going to resentyou for that.
Okay.
And it's never going away.
Okay.
And it's, it's relationshipmanagement.
Okay.
Cause leadership, look,leadership is relationship
management.
Okay.
And again, I've had people,good, great leaders that I've
(24:56):
worked for that have asked me todo that.
And I say, if I don't agree withLook, we're just not, I'm not,
no, I can't agree.
Because this is the thing.
When I do agree, if I believe inwhat you're selling, then I'm
in, and we are going to marchforward.
But any time we have thatmisalignment, it creates
(25:17):
resentment later, and it doesn'twork.
So if you're a leader out there,do not do that.
I'm just telling you, and look,I don't have a degree or an MBA
or anything to back that up.
I'm just letting you know.
Yeah.
And you can probably ground itwith some teaching somewhere.
But based on what I know, don'tdo that.
If you can't get buy-in, thenyou just wait until you don't
(25:41):
have to ask for the buy-in.
In other words, you don't forcesomeone to do it.
Go ahead and try that with yourspouse.
Try it.
You can try it with your spouseor your friend or anyone else
you have a relationship with.
Ask them to do something thatthey don't want to do, that they
don't believe in.
And watch what happens.
They'll do it, but they'llresent you for it.
(26:02):
And it never goes away.
And so what you want to do, thedifferent approach, you might
say, well, what's the approach?
Well, if you really want the carblue and I really want it red,
then we haven't agreed on it.
We don't paint it at all.
That's right.
Until at which point we're bothunder the agreement that it
needs to be blue.
(26:23):
And maybe that time will comeand maybe it won't.
But if it don't come, then don'tpaint it.
Does that make sense?
SPEAKER_00 (26:29):
Yeah.
For sure.
And
SPEAKER_01 (26:30):
we got kind of chasing rabbits there.
But it's important.
That's what we're doing.
But confidence, clarity.
And what led us to that wasbelieve in what you're saying.
Because, again, you have tobelieve in what you're saying.
Okay?
SPEAKER_00 (26:44):
One thing we do, like, if we make a bad decision
at work, so like shutting downone of the amenities or
something like that, and thenthe weather isn't as bad as what
we thought it was going to be orsomething, and we get...
ridiculed for it yeah but theone thing that i my the leaders
at my work are great at doing isstaying confident in their
(27:08):
decision which i think shows youknow they're obviously leading
us the employees but they'realso leaders in where members
are looking up to them asleaders in their club sure to
where it's like okay wellthey're We're confident in the
decision to close because of X,Y, and Z.
And yes, sorry that it didn'tfreeze over last night or
whatever, but we have to close.
(27:31):
So I think it's before, during,and after with confidence.
Even if you may have done thewrong decision, if you know that
at the time you thought it wasthe right one and it could have
gone either way, you still haveto be confident even if you
weren't successful.
SPEAKER_01 (27:47):
Correct.
100%.
Absolutely.
If you want to remain...
If you want to remain leader,because if not, you start losing
your credibility.
And not by position, right?
But by influence.
That's
SPEAKER_00 (28:00):
a terrible example on my end.
SPEAKER_01 (28:02):
That's good.
So look, they don't have tobelieve what you believe.
They don't have to believe whatyou believe, but they have to
believe that you believe whatyou believe.
Does that make sense?
Yeah.
So you can stand...
Look, people go to church allthe time.
And on this show, we don't talkabout it, but preacher goes up
and preaches.
The congregation, someone thatdoesn't know God, has to believe
(28:24):
that that man knows what, hebelieves what he believes.
And he believes what he'ssaying.
And so I had a preacher, one ofmy pastors in the past, it was
Randy Reese.
Shout out to Randy.
He's a good man, good pastor.
He said that one time he had aguy come into church.
And after church, the guy walkedup and said, man, you really do
believe what you're preaching upthere.
(28:46):
And he said, yes, sir.
And so, look, that's what youwant.
That is what we want.
All right, so we're going tohave a clear picture of, you
know, and a thorough plan onwhat we're communicating.
It's very important to be clearand have a clear picture of what
(29:07):
you're communicating and have acommitted message.
So all of that's part of beingconfident.
Moving on to number three iscomplete communication.
We talked about the differencebetween complete and clarity
just briefly, but you want tohave a full understanding of
what you're communicating, andthen you've got to be able to
give them a full understandingof what, basically deliver it
(29:28):
that way.
So you have to understand itbefore you can deliver it.
And look, it's your job as aleader to understand what you're
asking people to do.
You heard Tyler and Brandon andthe leaders before, they say,
we're not going to ask anybodyto do anything that we wouldn't
do ourself.
Well, it's kind of like a newtask at work.
(29:49):
If you have someone that youhave to get to do something,
guess what?
You should go do it firstbecause you need to understand
it before you have them do it.
And so that's super important.
You can't have anythingincomplete.
You need to have a logicalconclusion and information
(30:10):
followed by action is required,right?
So a little bit of follow-up.
But being complete, would entailall of that.
All right, so the number four,yeah, consistent.
We talked about consistency, buthow important is it to be
consistent?
Listen, this consistency is oneof the things that builds trust.
(30:34):
Why is that?
That's
SPEAKER_00 (30:35):
true.
SPEAKER_01 (30:35):
Why is that?
SPEAKER_00 (30:37):
I think it makes the person who you're building trust
with more confident in buildingyour capabilities.
So as a leader, you know, ifyou're, if you're consistent in
your communication or, you know,you know, every single Monday
we're having this meeting atthis time and you, you know, you
(30:58):
start out, I don't know what theexample is, but it builds a
confidence with your employeesor friendships or whatever it
might be that you're who, you'rewho they want to be with or look
up to or, um, You know, workunder, you know.
SPEAKER_03 (31:19):
So to me, consistency is comfortable.
Inconsistency is uncomfortable.
And it's like as simple as that.
Like anything that'sinconsistent just is awkward and
anxious and uncomfortable.
Stressful.
But stressful and consistency ispeace and comfort.
SPEAKER_01 (31:36):
And trust is built in that arena.
Yes, sir.
Not in a chaos environment.
Right?
So you want to build trust?
Be consistent because you wantto be predictable.
So humans, either you're in atrustworthy environment where
you can live freely or you'renot.
(31:57):
There's really no in-between.
You're in that good, safe,trusting environment or you're
not.
Period.
Now, there can be differentdegrees of trust.
But either you have trust or youdon't.
And so when you're operating ina place where you do not have
trust...
I guarantee you, you'll findinconsistency every time.
(32:21):
And so, but, you know, soinconsistency, I labeled it here
as dancing becauseinconsistency, you're just kind
of going with the flow andleaders don't do that.
In fact, sometimes leaders goagainst the flow.
And you know what?
That's because they're leadersand they're necessary.
(32:41):
And it's necessary for a leaderto do that from time to time.
It's also necessary for leadersto go with the flow and follow.
Good leaders are good followers.
We talked about that.
But nonetheless, the leader'sjob is to figure out what water
he's in and navigate it and forhis people.
So, you know, I wrote that down.
(33:02):
If you ever get to dancing,you're going to slip.
I don't know about y'all, but Idon't have any dance moves.
But look, leaders that dancearound will fall.
And so being consistent is supercritical.
The choice of words does matter.
Consistent tone and content.
Across the board, be consistent.
(33:24):
Number five is courteous.
Now, a lot of people might say,well, what do you call courteous
communication?
Well, it's exactly that.
Number one, it's positive.
Leaders should never benegative.
Ever.
Not for any reason.
Ever.
A good leader is not negative.
Now, Again, you take a leaderand you put him in an
(33:48):
environment where there's notrust.
He's going to be negative.
He could be negative.
Well, so I'll take it back.
He could be.
He shouldn't be.
Or she.
He or she should not be negativeever.
But in an environment wherethere's distrust, it's difficult
to be positive.
(34:10):
So I would just say that Keep itpositive.
Optimism, not pessimism.
If the leaders ever go negative,so will the people that follow
them.
And that's when you haveproblems.
So we always look on the otherside of the leaf.
Some people say look for thepony.
(34:31):
Look for the wet side.
Whatever people say.
Courteous communication would behonest, respectful, open, and
candid.
So And then we're going to talkabout this.
When I think about honest,respectful, open, and candid,
that kind of leads me to thinkabout listening.
(34:52):
Listening is a huge part ofcommunication.
And so we're going to talk aboutthat right now.
But how often do you hear or seegood, strong leaders listening?
SPEAKER_00 (35:07):
All the time.
SPEAKER_01 (35:08):
Okay.
Tell me about it.
SPEAKER_00 (35:10):
Well, I think that...
good strong leaders take a stepa step back and kind of listen
to what's going on around them alot of times when a new leader
comes into like a new a newleader in a new organization
they take a few weeks to kind ofchew everything up and then you
know maybe make changes orwhatever it might be so like new
(35:34):
sheriff in town I don't knowthis.
I'm just saying.
I'm assuming that when he getsin, he's not going to just go in
and, like you said, like an ironfist.
He's going to go in.
He's going to listen to his newemployees.
He's going to interview people,see what's great, what's not
great, or whatever, and thenstart acting on it.
SPEAKER_01 (35:54):
And he's been doing that.
He started January 1st, TylerHooks, and he's been doing a
good job with that.
I was told that he's really beenan active listener to the
community.
And that he's taking it all inand making things right.
That's great.
That's what we want to hear.
Yeah, but look, active listeningand passive listening, let's say
(36:15):
active listening is really anactive thing.
And let me tell you, it's noteasy to do.
For some people it is.
It comes natural, maybe, but notto some.
And look, most leaders that Iknow, strong leaders, have
trouble with this area.
And I'll tell you that I havetrouble in this area.
Because...
As much as I like to listen, Ialso like to tell people what to
(36:37):
do because I like to see thingshappen.
I mean, really.
So I like to be the guy that'slike, I'm ready to go.
Let's go.
Let's do this thing.
Well, along the way, I have toslow myself down.
Like, hey, hey, hey, slow down.
Let's listen to what's going onbecause I don't know everything,
right?
And neither does anybody else.
But we've got to maintain thatposition.
(36:59):
And listening is super criticalto the leader's journey.
The level of influence that theleader has is directly impacted
by his ability to listenbecause, again, that's how you
influence others.
And so the biggest part ofcommunication, we can be clear,
complete, confident, consistent,courteous.
(37:23):
We can be all those things andnot listen and lead less, right?
So you've got to do all theseways that you're communicating
to these five C's, I guess we'llcall them the five C's, those
five C's, and then you have to,after doing all that, and even
before, you gotta listen, andtake it in, and then go from
there.
(37:44):
So the first thing, I tell mykids this all the time, the
first thing that comes to yourmind is probably not the right
thing to say.
Most of the time.
True.
You know, it's just the way itis.
And so what you want to do is becurious.
And we talked about that alittle bit, and I said I was
going to come back to that.
(38:05):
But being curious all the time,asking questions.
That's what the leader does.
SPEAKER_03 (38:10):
That's right.
SPEAKER_01 (38:11):
And the best leaders that I know ask questions and
never tell people what to do.
Think about this.
You can go through and read theGospels.
Jesus always asked questions.
It will blow your mind when yougo look at it through that lens.
(38:32):
Jesus was the greatest leaderthat ever walked the face of the
earth.
I'll just tell you.
And when you go and read theGospels and read about his life,
it was always questions.
And, yeah, I mean, he toldpeople questions.
how to live.
You look at the Sermon on theMount where he said, blessed are
those that do all these things.
He did give instruction, butmore times than not, they would
(38:54):
come to him and say, well,Jesus, what about this?
And he would ask a question.
And he would always speak inthird person.
And so why would you not takethose two things?
Ask questions, be curious, andwhat you're doing is you're
illuminating the, hey, look, youcan figure this out for
yourself.
Typically, if someone comes toyou and says, Daniel, how do I
(39:17):
do this right here?
Your kids, for example.
How do I do this, Dad?
Well, instead of telling them,if you'll ask the right
questions and then they figureit out on their own, you're at
the same time buildingconfidence.
And you're establishing yourplace as leader.
And then when they say, Dad, Icannot figure this out, then
(39:39):
help them.
And then I would even challengeyou to say, well, hey, just give
them confidence.
an idea of what they should do.
Still, don't give them theanswer.
And so I've found that in mytrade, in my industry, if
someone comes to me and says,how do I do this?
If I can just ask them the rightquestions to lead them to the
answer, they walk awayprofoundly motivated to do it
(40:03):
later.
But if I tell them, just dothis, they didn't learn
anything.
So you want people to learn fromyou, and you want people to—you
want to build influence withpeople.
That's how you do it.
And, you know, third person,man.
Look, Jesus spoke in thirdperson all the time.
(40:23):
And, you know, look, go back andread it.
It's very interesting.
But listening is key.
And I left it here at the lastpart because really and truly—
In a leader's communication,this is the most important, in
my opinion.
The leader's ability to listento everyone, both subordinates
or people that they report to,being able to listen, process,
(40:47):
and then communicate.
So you communicate these fiveways, man, you're going to be
clear.
And you know what?
You're going to lead, period.
So if you don't do these things,you're going to lead halfway,
and you're not going to leadwith greatness.
So if you have an email or aletter to someone, here's
(41:09):
another thing.
So have you ever?
I've done this before.
I'm just telling them myself.
So as a leader, okay, here wego.
This is good.
As a leader, I've ran into someissues before, and, man, I'm
fired up.
about something and I need tocommunicate something and I just
(41:30):
start replying on an email andI'm typing it up and I type like
four sentences and I'm ready tohit send and I wait I go back
and wait and I'll go back andread it the next day and I will
change every word in it becauseit did not need to be
(41:52):
communicated like that and soNow, a lot of times you don't
have that time.
You've got to communicate now,okay?
If that's the case, then youhave someone else read it.
SPEAKER_00 (42:04):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (42:05):
But you don't want to, if you're a leader, and
especially when you're talkingto your people, you don't want
to communicate the wrong thing,the wrong way.
And look, you might mean well,but you're saying it in a way
that is not helpful.
And so send it the next day, andyou'll change the words, and
it's better.
(42:25):
But don't act out of emotion.
So y'all heard me talk about Istruggle.
Look, a lot of this stuff isborn from my struggles.
I struggle with emotion.
I'm very passionate.
And, man, I'll get fired upabout something, and I don't
need to.
I need to slow down, relax, makeit so that it's going to land
(42:45):
well.
And
SPEAKER_03 (42:48):
go ahead.
It takes me to all these thingsare very slow to build.
And it takes time.
And what you're saying rightnow, it can all just be damaged.
Yes.
It crumbles so fast,
SPEAKER_01 (43:04):
so fast, so fast.
It's called the flesh, by theway.
The flesh, I don't know whateverybody believes, but the
flesh and the devil can reallyrock you.
I mean, he can just demobilizeyou.
As a leader now.
You're still going to survive,but you're losing influence.
If you're not doing these thingsright here, you're losing
(43:25):
influence.
And you want to get it back?
Go back to work on these things.
That's why this is important.
SPEAKER_00 (43:31):
It's almost like a routine.
Yeah.
You just said something a minuteago about how you had to step
back.
When you start needing torespond to something, it's
like...
Am I being clear?
It's like you've got to get intothat groove, and it goes in that
sequential order of the five Csthat you've got to learn.
(43:57):
You've got to learn that.
It's reps.
It's reps.
SPEAKER_01 (44:01):
It's constant learning and reps.
These aren't natural.
That's why everybody saysleadership can be taught, and it
100% can.
We're taking people to school onthis podcast.
If they'll do these things,they'll notice a dramatic
difference in their leadership.
Because these aren't natural.
(44:21):
These are taught, learnedprinciples.
You're not coming out of thewomb with this stuff.
In fact, you're the opposite.
And you learn this in thetrenches of leadership.
And, of course, leading,implementing.
And then when you see thesethings work, the needle begins
to move.
UNKNOWN (44:39):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (44:40):
Go back and review the email, right, or the text.
Change it.
Don't react emotionally.
That's so critical for
SPEAKER_00 (44:50):
the leader.
I think that's the hardest partfor me.
SPEAKER_01 (44:51):
It is.
Me too.
Hey, look, nobody's immune tothis, but you start acting in
the flesh and these things willnot be there and you will lose
influence.
Good.
That's it.
Good stuff.
All right, so should we decideto focus on these things?
We will build trust.
And it provides opportunity togrow in our businesses and
(45:15):
provide more opportunity forthose coming behind us, 100%.
And so I thought about doing ameaningful question today, but
what was the question you askeda while ago?
We're going to do this next weekwith Nick, but the question you
asked a while ago, I want to...
SPEAKER_00 (45:30):
Well, it was funny because I just...
It was an email.
I don't think you were in herebefore we started recording, but
there's...
an email that went out about oneof my daughter's things, and one
of the potential questions thatshe could be asked is, in your
opinion, what is the mostimportant quality a leader
should possess?
SPEAKER_01 (45:50):
Bro, mic drop.
SPEAKER_00 (45:52):
And I'm like, okay, so I get this email, and it's
just, you know, I don't know,kind of cool.
SPEAKER_01 (45:58):
We're asking Nick that question next week.
Ask it again.
SPEAKER_00 (46:02):
In your opinion, what is the most important
quality that a leader shouldpossess?
SPEAKER_01 (46:09):
And
SPEAKER_00 (46:10):
there's 20 of them.
We've got 20 of
SPEAKER_01 (46:12):
them.
Which one is most important?
That's a good question.
I don't know the answer.
SPEAKER_00 (46:21):
I'm really excited to hear what all the students
SPEAKER_01 (46:24):
say.
Before Nick comes, I'll tell youwhat I think.
And this has been in the balancefor me for some time.
And I haven't ever been askedquite that direct.
But I would say there's two forme.
I've got to figure
SPEAKER_00 (46:38):
out which one.
You've got to
SPEAKER_01 (46:39):
pick one.
I'll let you pick one.
So let me give my
SPEAKER_00 (46:42):
story.
I've got mine.
SPEAKER_01 (46:43):
Okay, so I think that trust...
So being present and beingtrustworthy are probably
foundational, in my opinion.
I've got to figure out whichone's more important.
But...
(47:03):
If you don't have trust, youdon't have anything.
So I would say that trustworthyand present is a good tie there.
I don't know.
And we'll have to unpack that.
Well, let's see what Nick saysnext week.
Okay?
But that's a meaningfulquestion.
Yeah.
And I want to camp out on thatfor a minute.
(47:23):
So that would be something thatwe
SPEAKER_00 (47:25):
could do.
Can I tell you mine?
SPEAKER_01 (47:26):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (47:26):
Communication and clarity.
Because, like, think about it.
You just said trust, but...
SPEAKER_01 (47:33):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (47:34):
Clarity, consistency, like those build
trust.
So if you don't have that, it'slike the chicken before the egg
or egg before the chicken orwhatever.
Well, that's
SPEAKER_03 (47:45):
the thing about these mandates is there's a...
They can all be the mostimportant at the right time when
the time comes.
And there's an argument forevery
SPEAKER_02 (47:56):
single one of them.
I was going to say.
There's an argument for all ofthem.
Dude, I would like to hear thosekids answer that question.
I know.
When is this happening?
February 8th.
I
SPEAKER_03 (48:04):
haven't told you guys this, but Sarah Jane told
me she wants to be on thepodcast.
Oh, cool.
And I was already thinking we'regoing to shoot.
some mini episodes oh yeah witheach like we're each going to
bring one of our kids
SPEAKER_01 (48:16):
oh yeah that's great and ask them some of these
questions so we're doing it Ilove it that's great so February
8th I want to know I really likeI want to go to that
SPEAKER_00 (48:25):
yeah
SPEAKER_01 (48:26):
because I can only imagine what kids would say the
answer to that is how old arethese kids
SPEAKER_00 (48:31):
so there's high schoolers and then there's
middle school which the middleschoolers don't have to answer
the question Morgan
SPEAKER_01 (48:37):
County's asking kids that bro that is on point
SPEAKER_00 (48:41):
It was pretty good.
SPEAKER_01 (48:42):
Yeah, I love it.
Cool.
All right, well, we're signingoff.
SPEAKER_00 (48:46):
Yep.
SPEAKER_01 (48:46):
Everybody good?
All hearts and minds are clear?
SPEAKER_00 (48:49):
Clear.
SPEAKER_01 (48:50):
See you next week.
Thanks, guys.
Yep, thank y'all.
Welcome back to Impact Podcast.
It's Jeremy Melton, DanielBrown, and Maddie Atkinson.
We are here to talk aboutleadership for the next hour or
so, maybe half hour.
But a highlight question, whatkind of impact are you making on
the world that we live in?
And our goal on this show is tohope to create or generate a
(00:44):
desire to understand it soonerthan later.
This week is episode numbereight.
I believe, and we are talkingabout the mandate of clarity.
The initial mandate was, wetalked about the mandate of
clarity, but essentially it'sclarity in communication, right?
So we're going to talk about howimportant that is.
(01:06):
Last week, let's talk about lastweek real quick.
We talked about, I think weinterviewed my brother last
week, right?
That's right.
So y'all, we got to meet BrandonHoltsinger.
Let's do some takeaways.
Whoever wants to go first.
SPEAKER_03 (01:24):
Well, I was a spectator on this episode and
probably not as engaged as Ishould have been as, you know,
on the other side of the camera.
But man, he had a lot of goodstuff to share about his journey
with his faith.
And that part of it was reallyinspiring to me.
(01:45):
And maybe some of that was saidoff camera afterwards, if I'm
not mistaken, Jeremy, but justthe relationship that he's got.
And very, very, very new is whatit seemed like and sounded like
to me.
But he definitely, as a leader,he's, you know, Learning a lot
and embracing that learning andhis journey.
(02:08):
And it was just really great totalk to him.
I hadn't seen him in years.
It was a good time.
SPEAKER_01 (02:13):
It was somewhat of, I'll call it a revelation to me.
I had not, I mean, really, he'smy brother, but he kind of got
intimate, especially after thepodcast, which was really cool,
about his faith.
And so I enjoyed that for sure.
Maddie, what did you think?
SPEAKER_00 (02:29):
I thought it was...
clear to me when you...
One of the first episodes, Ithink you said that he was the
most humble person that youknew.
One of.
One of.
And it was just clear.
He was just so humble.
You know, like, I mean, there'sjust people that exert that
and...
SPEAKER_01 (02:48):
Well, you know, several times during the
podcast, he would just say...
I mean, I think he even said,I'm a dummy.
If you were to quote him...
100%.
I'm a dummy.
Yep.
And how many people do you hearsay that, especially in...
in the form of leadership thathe's in, you just don't hear
that often.
And look, it's not fake.
It's genuine.
(03:09):
And he's not a dummy by anystretch.
But the fact that he embracesthat, look, I don't know it all.
Everybody knows more than me.
It's humility defined.
And so, yeah, that was good.
So I hope one day when peopleare asked about a takeaway from
me that they say that about me,right?
That's what we aspire to.
(03:31):
Very good.
So my takeaway was that.
I was going to say that as well.
And also that his leadership hadchanged through the years.
That was a pretty big deal.
And he talked about how heevolved in his leadership.
He talked about...
He was real quick to talk aboutthe people that got him there,
(03:52):
too, which...
The coolest part of what you doas a leader is later on down the
road, you give credit back wherecredit's due.
And that's, in my opinion,that's one of the coolest
things.
Go ahead.
SPEAKER_00 (04:04):
One thing I said last time, and it was off
camera, off we weren'trecording, was leadership is
living.
SPEAKER_01 (04:09):
Oh, yes, you did.
I just remembered that.
And we said, hey, that's anotherMaddie quote.
Some of that good stuff thatcomes out of Maddie.
You know, exactly.
It is living.
And I think I even put that on–I posted that on Facebook the
next week.
SPEAKER_03 (04:23):
And to clarify, you meant like you feel it like it's
a living, breathing thing.
SPEAKER_00 (04:27):
Yeah, like when I think of living, I think it's
ever-changing.
You know, it's like you– I likehow your brother talked about he
– his leadership over the yearhas changed.
It's a great way to put it.
SPEAKER_03 (04:42):
Yeah.
It's a great way to put it.
And it's kind of the same thingthat Jeremy has kind of said is
like– You never stop.
You never get to the finishline.
It's never done.
The work is never done.
To be a leader, you have tocontinue trying to be
intentional about being aleader.
SPEAKER_01 (04:54):
There you go, intentional.
SPEAKER_03 (04:55):
There we
SPEAKER_01 (04:55):
go.
And then we talked aboutrelentless.
All these cool words.
So look, that was a great, greattime last week.
Next week we're going to have,today we're going to teach,
right?
And then next week we're goingto have Nick Austin.
So actually going to have theguy that taught Brandon and the
guy we were talking about.
He's going to come next week.
Yeah, so we're excited aboutthat.
(05:17):
Good.
Cool.
All right, so kicking off here,we're going to talk about
clarity and in communication.
So somebody tell me a definitionfor clarity.
SPEAKER_03 (05:28):
Well, clarity was the second mandate of the list
of mandates that we wentthrough.
And you expressed it with the,you tell them how to do it, and
then you show them how to do it.
And then what, did you do ittwice?
You
SPEAKER_00 (05:44):
let them do it.
SPEAKER_03 (05:45):
Go do it again.
SPEAKER_01 (05:46):
You tell them, you show them, then you have them
show you, right?
That's right.
And so we'll get to that in thistoday, you know, the
fundamentals, what we call theblocking and tackling.
We're going to get to that.
And we'll actually teach itagain.
So I think I had alluded to itthen, but we'll go over it today
for sure.
Go ahead, Maddie.
(06:07):
Do you have something?
Okay, so clarity is the abilityto convey a message without
confusion.
Right.
It's kind of simple.
Yeah.
It sounds simple, but oftentimespeople are not clear.
And one of the biggest thingsabout leadership is that if
you're not clear, then you'renot going to be leading because
(06:29):
people get confused.
And where there's chaos, there'sno leadership.
Right.
So it's funny.
Just you can pick out clarity ineverything that you do.
And with your kids or with workor if you ever have a task that
needs to be done and you've gotmultiple people doing it, you
can figure out real quick howimportant it is to be clear if
(06:49):
you want to execute it good.
And
SPEAKER_03 (06:52):
I think I said this before, but I feel like this is
one of my weak points as far asleadership goes when it comes to
clarity.
And I think it's just part ofme, you know, like...
making expectations and, but,but just trust.
Like when I lead, I just want tosay like, Hey, do this and it's
okay to do it your way.
(07:12):
But some people would do betterand even like it more if I was
more clear and like exactlylaying out what needs to be done
and what's
SPEAKER_01 (07:20):
expected.
Look, dude, people love to betold clearly what to do and look
at, I'm not a doctor, but whenyou do, when you're told, Hey,
do this or you're asked to dosomething and then you do it and
you succeed and I mean, there'sa chemical release, right?
So it's just– but being clear isalways a helpful part of that.
(07:42):
And so it's a super– but thefact that you acknowledge that
it's something that you shouldwork on is good, right?
That's humility.
It's something I've beenthinking about, like something I
want to be better at.
So look, a lot of people sayrepeat, right?
And we'll talk about that.
But repeating what you've saidor asked someone to do is part
(08:05):
of it.
But it's not all of it.
But being repetitive about it.
But you can get too repetitiveas well.
All right, so let's talk aboutthe communication piece first.
So the first thing we have to dois establish that there's four
major categories ofcommunication.
And that's what we're goingto...
There's four categories.
Verbal, nonverbal, visual, andwritten.
(08:26):
Okay, so the ways that youcommunicate things...
change based on thecircumstances that you find
yourself in.
And so if we're going tocommunicate verbally or
non-verbally, which I don't knowall the statistics, whether it's
90% of what you communicate iscommunicated non-verbally, but a
lot of what you communicate isyour demeanor, eye contact and
(08:47):
looking and talking in yourhands and stuff and so forth.
But visual communication andwritten communication, but
there's four types, and weparticipate in them every single
day, especially leader.
So in communication, in thosethings, in those four things,
you're going to have the thingsthat I've written down here that
(09:09):
I would say needs to live insidethe leader, okay?
And this is number one, clarity.
Number two is confidence.
Number three, you need to becomplete, right?
And clarity and being completeis two different things because
you can be really clear on halfof the request and leave some
(09:29):
stuff off and make a mistake.
You need to be consistent inyour communication, and you need
to be courteous in yourcommunication.
Any of those things, if one ofthose is not there, then the
leader has not done their job atpresenting it properly.
So, again, it sounds trivial,but as a leader, when you, and
(09:53):
if you're listening right now,if you're going to communicate
properly, a task or a request topeople that are reporting to
you, you need to be clear,confident, complete, consistent,
and courteous every single time.
And so, you know, how do youremember that?
I don't know, but I can tell youthat when I read the, and
(10:14):
somewhere I got this out of abook.
I told you I don't ever takecredit for anything.
This is duplicated, butsomewhere, wherever I got this
from, I actually, in myleadership journey, sat down and
began to figure out how to saythings in this order, okay?
Fundamentally, how do I presentthis problem to these group of
(10:34):
folks and cover being clear,being confident, being complete,
being consistent, and beingcourteous?
And then once I realized that,man, that's working, right?
And then you just duplicate it.
So it's almost like buildingthat muscle.
And reps is how you buildmuscle, right?
So taking your time and doingthose things.
Can you guys think of a timewhere you've had someone
(10:58):
communicate something to you, aleader, that did not do those
things and it resulted in chaos?
Anybody?
Anything?
SPEAKER_00 (11:07):
All the time.
SPEAKER_01 (11:10):
Give me an example without incriminating anybody.
SPEAKER_03 (11:14):
I know.
I mean, I'm struggling to find aspecific example, but I'm
really, like, enjoying this listand I, like, can totally,
like...
Like, I feel it.
And just like you said, like, beclear, be confident, be
complete.
And I love that, like you said,like, I'm going to go through
each one of these steps and younotice the difference.
Oh, yeah.
(11:34):
Like, I'm sitting here, I'mwriting this stuff down.
Like, I want to do this stuff.
SPEAKER_00 (11:39):
One of the things that's hard for me, like, even
at work, and hopefully I don'tget in trouble for this, but...
consistency is hard i think it'slike we go on these trips and
you go to like a conference orsomething and then when you come
back you're just rejuvenated youknow and you're like ready to be
a leader and you're ready to doall that and then you have so
(12:01):
many aspirations and then likethree months and you just start
going down and it's just notconsistent so then you know you
have the first few months you'rejust on it you're you're game on
you're ready and then it justkind of starts trickling away
and the consistency of you knowcommunicating well and you know
(12:23):
getting the team together foryou know uplifting team building
activity it just goes away
SPEAKER_03 (12:29):
yeah and so that gave me a little thing in my
head the consistent part andi've got some experience with
like like having to report todifferent steps of management in
the same company like likemultiple people telling me
things like this is how we wantto do it but they're not on the
(12:51):
same page right and they'retelling me different things and
then it gets to a point whereokay like not consistent i i
can't who do i i gotta choosesomeone to actually follow and i
mean That's a good one.
Who's writing the check?
Okay.
Yeah, that one.
No,
SPEAKER_01 (13:10):
let's do that.
That's good.
So look, we're going to unpackthese a little more, and this is
where it gets fun.
So when you're talking aboutclarity, so I said there was
four types of communication, andinside of those there's five
ways that the leader isresponsible for communicating.
And so each of those ways can bedone in each– type of
(13:34):
communication or form ofcommunication, but we're going
to start with clarity.
So at the end of the day, it'simportant to be clear, right?
Period.
We know that.
But be clear about what?
What should we be clear about,right?
Because you think, well, whatare we being clear about?
Well, you know, I ask y'all orsomeone to do something.
(13:58):
And, you know, what are wedoing?
What is the purpose, right?
So there's a reason that I wantyou to do that.
So the first thing you want tobe clear about is the purpose.
And a lot of leaders don't thinkthat.
They think, well, it's because Isaid so.
And it kills me when people...
Look, my mama used to tell methat when I was a kid.
(14:19):
And look, at the end of the day,she's probably right.
But that's not the real reason.
Like, you don't want me to dothat because I said so.
Well, that's not...
Think of something else, okay?
Because what's the reason?
Is it because I don't want tobreak my leg?
You don't want me to break myleg?
Yeah.
Okay, well, just tell me that,right?
And I'm picking on my mom.
(14:39):
But look, I heard this teacherone time, and he said, don't
tell your kids that.
You want them to understand whythey're not doing it, not
because you said so.
SPEAKER_00 (14:49):
That's so hard.
SPEAKER_01 (14:50):
Oh, man.
Not to say that.
It is hard, but it's soimportant.
Look, if you don't hear anythingelse this whole podcast, don't
tell your kids that.
No.
Really.
SPEAKER_03 (14:58):
And I was just having this conversation with
somebody else, and it's like,yeah, don't tell your kids
because I said so.
And there was something that Itook away, and it was something
about let these kids understandor live, understand why they are
living the life that they'reliving.
Yeah.
And give them the perspective
SPEAKER_01 (15:16):
that they deserve.
That's right.
Look, you don't want them to,because I said so, you want them
to ask the questions.
And if you always say because Isaid so, they're never going to
ask the question.
That's right.
So...
Just like you want your kids tounderstand why they're doing
what they're doing, you alsowant your people to understand
why you're doing what you'redoing.
No, we're not doing that at workanymore.
(15:37):
We're doing it this way.
Well, why is that?
Never tell them because I saidso.
Always give the purpose.
Again, the first part of beingclear is being clear about your
purpose and communicating that.
Another way to be clear is to beshort and concise.
(15:58):
Simple, right?
So, you know, and I'm trying tothink of an example.
If you guys think of one, youknow, stop me.
But think about short, simplecommunication.
Anytime you have a big, bigtask, you don't want to go
around mumbling and bumbling abunch of words and just
(16:18):
unnecessary words.
Just get to the point.
SPEAKER_03 (16:22):
What it takes me to is, and I know it's not
management that we're talkingabout, but management is
leading.
We've established that.
But the difference betweenmanaging and micromanaging,
that's kind of where it takesme.
Keep things simple.
Keep things concise.
Have trust.
And don't try to nitpick everylittle detail.
(16:43):
Keep it simple.
This is what we're doing.
Other than that, do it your way.
But like I said, that's kind ofmy weakness and where I
struggle.
How much direction is needed?
Where's the balance?
There's a balance.
SPEAKER_01 (16:57):
Well, and the way to do that, and this will come out
later, but you always be curiousas a leader.
And when you say, well, howmuch?
I don't want to micromanage.
Lord, I do not want tomicromanage.
And so...
Look, along with the seasons ina leader's life and a leader's
journey, he changes.
At the same time, he has to beable to lead in different ways
(17:20):
based on the call at that time.
And so I'll tell you, it's kindof like we get a new sheriff in
town.
He's got to come in.
I don't want to say he's ironfist, but he's got to come in
and not micromanage, but he'sgot to come in and like
confident.
This is how we're doing this.
And at the same time, he's gotto ask questions.
(17:45):
So three years into his electioncycle, he'll be different.
You take a leader and put themin charge of a tribe of people,
and that leader will have to dothese things exceptionally well
up front, and then he'll getsome grace later.
(18:07):
But if he goes in with grace atfirst, he'll get ran over.
Okay, so anyway.
That's right.
We're getting off track, but I'mjust saying.
All right, so the training thatwe talked about that you just
alluded to earlier, Daniel, wastell them, have them tell you,
show them, have them show you.
So, Maddie, if you go to workMonday or Tuesday or whatever
(18:29):
day and you need somebody to dosomething, then you tell them
and then you just say, so whatare you doing?
What did I just ask you to do?
And then they'll tell you.
And you do that so that you hearthem and they heard you
correctly.
So one time I was at a job siteand I told a crew to do
something.
(18:50):
And I didn't ask them to tell mewhat I asked them to do.
And so I left.
And when I came back, it wasn'tthat way.
And I said, what did y'all do?
Oh, well, we thought.
And then it turned out thatafter I had left, there was an
argument.
between the guys about how I hadsaid to do it, okay, in what
order.
And they didn't do it in theright order, and so we had to
(19:11):
redo it.
And I was really upset, and Iwas like, dude, what are y'all
doing?
And they're like, well, we wereconfused.
And I said, well, why didn't youjust call me?
Anyway, the point is, is Irealized that day, okay, next
time I go to that same crew,hey, guys, please blah, blah,
blah, blah, blah, do this andthat, right?
What did I say?
(19:32):
How did I say to do that?
Well, you said blah, blah, blah,blah, blah.
And then at that point, okay,you're good.
Yep, that's right.
See you.
All right.
Then you go back and try it.
Have them repeat it to you.
And that goes the same with yourkids.
Because sometimes people don'thear you say what you think you
said, or sometimes you might notsay what you think you meant to
(19:53):
say.
So it's so important as aleader, which we are, to
communicate clearly.
And part of communicating withclarity is...
repeating it so you can repeatit or most what i would prefer
to have you do is have themrepeat it to you right so those
are fundamentally those arethings that you can do
(20:14):
actionable items that you can doto change your communication so
all right so we don't leave anyroom for misunderstanding all
right so that that that is thatclear What did I say?
SPEAKER_00 (20:27):
I like the short.
Well, I want to get back to theshort, but like simple.
Yeah.
Because we do a lot of lettersto members and things like that.
And it's like sometimes when theleaders put it all together,
it's like they're trying toover, not exaggerate, but just
like there's way too much detailin it that really doesn't need
(20:49):
to be in it.
And so it's like it's better todo.
bullet points.
So we've found out just through,I mean, through trial and error,
but that's a written, you know,communication that you're
sending out that you've got tomake sure that it's, you're
going to have the one personthat reads the entire thing and
absorb every single thing.
And you're going to have peoplethat just go for the bullet
(21:10):
points or the whatever, and thenthey'll pick up what they pick
up.
And so it's like, we've, we've,we got to, we've learned a lot
just through writtencommunication.
communications to members thatwhat to do and what not to do.
But we've learned being short,sweet, to the point.
We get a lot more positivefeedback.
SPEAKER_01 (21:31):
Absolutely.
Well, you know, look, I have abusiness partner friend of mine
and, you know, I send the emailsand look, I probably over
communicate.
I've been told that before andI'll send an email and it'll be
seven paragraphs long and reallyIt didn't need to be but three
sentences.
(21:51):
And so he gives me a hard time.
You sent one of your novels tome, and I'm like, bro, that's
important.
Everything in there is superimportant, and I want it to be
clear.
But if you don't send thatclear, if you're not clear, it's
a tremendous defeat coming inleadership every time.
SPEAKER_03 (22:12):
Well, and it takes me back to ownership.
If you're not communicatingclearly and giving them the
directions that's needed andthen they don't do what needs to
be done, that's on
SPEAKER_01 (22:22):
you.
It's on you.
That's right.
You own it.
And so when you're really clear,you can say, dude, I spelled it
out.
So then you can manageexpectations.
SPEAKER_02 (22:29):
That's
SPEAKER_01 (22:29):
right.
Right?
And so we'll get into all that.
But look, the next one isconfidence.
This one's huge.
People don't follow people thataren't confident.
They just not.
They'll sit back.
And if you want someone to racein behind you, be confident.
Okay?
And you have to be certainbecause certainty breeds
(22:53):
confidence.
And being 100% certain, whetheryou're right or wrong, about
what you're doing.
And I tell people, you have tobelieve in what you're saying
and believe in what you'reteaching.
And if you don't believe it,then don't do it.
And another thing, don't ever...
Don't ever ask someone to buyinto what you're trying to sell.
(23:17):
I don't know if you've ever donethat, but I've done it.
I've had it done to me.
And it's not good to do that.
Explain.
Well, so if, let's say
SPEAKER_00 (23:26):
we...
Did you say explain?
Yeah.
Okay, that's what I
SPEAKER_01 (23:29):
was...
So you and I have a plan.
So we're in business together.
And you want to paint the...
I don't know, I'm trying tothink.
You want to paint the car blue,okay?
I want to paint the car red.
And you say, well, Jeremy, thecar being blue would be better
for our business in the longrun.
(23:49):
And I say, no, I think it'd bered would be better.
Well, a lot of people would say,at some point, one of y'all just
has to submit, okay?
And that's true, probably true.
Or you just change the coloraltogether.
The problem is, is if Iconcede...
and let you paint it the colorthat you...
Let's just say you sit me downand you talk to me and you're
(24:12):
trying to convince me to paintit blue.
And I say, Daniel, it needs tobe red.
And we have misalignment.
If I ever concede and let youpaint it blue, then I would just
say this.
You're now in a state ofdiscord.
And you don't want to be there.
(24:34):
Because...
later down the road, whether itbe in our negotiations or
whatever, I'm going to resentyou for that.
Okay.
And it's never going away.
Okay.
And it's, it's relationshipmanagement.
Okay.
Cause leadership, look,leadership is relationship
management.
Okay.
And again, I've had people,good, great leaders that I've
(24:56):
worked for that have asked me todo that.
And I say, if I don't agree withLook, we're just not, I'm not,
no, I can't agree.
Because this is the thing.
When I do agree, if I believe inwhat you're selling, then I'm
in, and we are going to marchforward.
But any time we have thatmisalignment, it creates
(25:17):
resentment later, and it doesn'twork.
So if you're a leader out there,do not do that.
I'm just telling you, and look,I don't have a degree or an MBA
or anything to back that up.
I'm just letting you know.
Yeah.
And you can probably ground itwith some teaching somewhere.
But based on what I know, don'tdo that.
If you can't get buy-in, thenyou just wait until you don't
(25:41):
have to ask for the buy-in.
In other words, you don't forcesomeone to do it.
Go ahead and try that with yourspouse.
Try it.
You can try it with your spouseor your friend or anyone else
you have a relationship with.
Ask them to do something thatthey don't want to do, that they
don't believe in.
And watch what happens.
They'll do it, but they'llresent you for it.
(26:02):
And it never goes away.
And so what you want to do, thedifferent approach, you might
say, well, what's the approach?
Well, if you really want the carblue and I really want it red,
then we haven't agreed on it.
We don't paint it at all.
That's right.
Until at which point we're bothunder the agreement that it
needs to be blue.
(26:23):
And maybe that time will comeand maybe it won't.
But if it don't come, then don'tpaint it.
Does that make sense?
SPEAKER_00 (26:29):
Yeah.
For sure.
And
SPEAKER_01 (26:30):
we got kind of chasing rabbits there.
But it's important.
That's what we're doing.
But confidence, clarity.
And what led us to that wasbelieve in what you're saying.
Because, again, you have tobelieve in what you're saying.
Okay?
SPEAKER_00 (26:44):
One thing we do, like, if we make a bad decision
at work, so like shutting downone of the amenities or
something like that, and thenthe weather isn't as bad as what
we thought it was going to be orsomething, and we get...
ridiculed for it yeah but theone thing that i my the leaders
at my work are great at doing isstaying confident in their
(27:08):
decision which i think shows youknow they're obviously leading
us the employees but they'realso leaders in where members
are looking up to them asleaders in their club sure to
where it's like okay wellthey're We're confident in the
decision to close because of X,Y, and Z.
And yes, sorry that it didn'tfreeze over last night or
whatever, but we have to close.
(27:31):
So I think it's before, during,and after with confidence.
Even if you may have done thewrong decision, if you know that
at the time you thought it wasthe right one and it could have
gone either way, you still haveto be confident even if you
weren't successful.
SPEAKER_01 (27:47):
Correct.
100%.
Absolutely.
If you want to remain...
If you want to remain leader,because if not, you start losing
your credibility.
And not by position, right?
But by influence.
That's
SPEAKER_00 (28:00):
a terrible example on my end.
SPEAKER_01 (28:02):
That's good.
So look, they don't have tobelieve what you believe.
They don't have to believe whatyou believe, but they have to
believe that you believe whatyou believe.
Does that make sense?
Yeah.
So you can stand...
Look, people go to church allthe time.
And on this show, we don't talkabout it, but preacher goes up
and preaches.
The congregation, someone thatdoesn't know God, has to believe
(28:24):
that that man knows what, hebelieves what he believes.
And he believes what he'ssaying.
And so I had a preacher, one ofmy pastors in the past, it was
Randy Reese.
Shout out to Randy.
He's a good man, good pastor.
He said that one time he had aguy come into church.
And after church, the guy walkedup and said, man, you really do
believe what you're preaching upthere.
(28:46):
And he said, yes, sir.
And so, look, that's what youwant.
That is what we want.
All right, so we're going tohave a clear picture of, you
know, and a thorough plan onwhat we're communicating.
It's very important to be clearand have a clear picture of what
(29:07):
you're communicating and have acommitted message.
So all of that's part of beingconfident.
Moving on to number three iscomplete communication.
We talked about the differencebetween complete and clarity
just briefly, but you want tohave a full understanding of
what you're communicating, andthen you've got to be able to
give them a full understandingof what, basically deliver it
(29:28):
that way.
So you have to understand itbefore you can deliver it.
And look, it's your job as aleader to understand what you're
asking people to do.
You heard Tyler and Brandon andthe leaders before, they say,
we're not going to ask anybodyto do anything that we wouldn't
do ourself.
Well, it's kind of like a newtask at work.
(29:49):
If you have someone that youhave to get to do something,
guess what?
You should go do it firstbecause you need to understand
it before you have them do it.
And so that's super important.
You can't have anythingincomplete.
You need to have a logicalconclusion and information
(30:10):
followed by action is required,right?
So a little bit of follow-up.
But being complete, would entailall of that.
All right, so the number four,yeah, consistent.
We talked about consistency, buthow important is it to be
consistent?
Listen, this consistency is oneof the things that builds trust.
(30:34):
Why is that?
That's
SPEAKER_00 (30:35):
true.
SPEAKER_01 (30:35):
Why is that?
SPEAKER_00 (30:37):
I think it makes the person who you're building trust
with more confident in buildingyour capabilities.
So as a leader, you know, ifyou're, if you're consistent in
your communication or, you know,you know, every single Monday
we're having this meeting atthis time and you, you know, you
(30:58):
start out, I don't know what theexample is, but it builds a
confidence with your employeesor friendships or whatever it
might be that you're who, you'rewho they want to be with or look
up to or, um, You know, workunder, you know.
SPEAKER_03 (31:19):
So to me, consistency is comfortable.
Inconsistency is uncomfortable.
And it's like as simple as that.
Like anything that'sinconsistent just is awkward and
anxious and uncomfortable.
Stressful.
But stressful and consistency ispeace and comfort.
SPEAKER_01 (31:36):
And trust is built in that arena.
Yes, sir.
Not in a chaos environment.
Right?
So you want to build trust?
Be consistent because you wantto be predictable.
So humans, either you're in atrustworthy environment where
you can live freely or you'renot.
(31:57):
There's really no in-between.
You're in that good, safe,trusting environment or you're
not.
Period.
Now, there can be differentdegrees of trust.
But either you have trust or youdon't.
And so when you're operating ina place where you do not have
trust...
I guarantee you, you'll findinconsistency every time.
(32:21):
And so, but, you know, soinconsistency, I labeled it here
as dancing becauseinconsistency, you're just kind
of going with the flow andleaders don't do that.
In fact, sometimes leaders goagainst the flow.
And you know what?
That's because they're leadersand they're necessary.
(32:41):
And it's necessary for a leaderto do that from time to time.
It's also necessary for leadersto go with the flow and follow.
Good leaders are good followers.
We talked about that.
But nonetheless, the leader'sjob is to figure out what water
he's in and navigate it and forhis people.
So, you know, I wrote that down.
(33:02):
If you ever get to dancing,you're going to slip.
I don't know about y'all, but Idon't have any dance moves.
But look, leaders that dancearound will fall.
And so being consistent is supercritical.
The choice of words does matter.
Consistent tone and content.
Across the board, be consistent.
(33:24):
Number five is courteous.
Now, a lot of people might say,well, what do you call courteous
communication?
Well, it's exactly that.
Number one, it's positive.
Leaders should never benegative.
Ever.
Not for any reason.
Ever.
A good leader is not negative.
Now, Again, you take a leaderand you put him in an
(33:48):
environment where there's notrust.
He's going to be negative.
He could be negative.
Well, so I'll take it back.
He could be.
He shouldn't be.
Or she.
He or she should not be negativeever.
But in an environment wherethere's distrust, it's difficult
to be positive.
(34:10):
So I would just say that Keep itpositive.
Optimism, not pessimism.
If the leaders ever go negative,so will the people that follow
them.
And that's when you haveproblems.
So we always look on the otherside of the leaf.
Some people say look for thepony.
(34:31):
Look for the wet side.
Whatever people say.
Courteous communication would behonest, respectful, open, and
candid.
So And then we're going to talkabout this.
When I think about honest,respectful, open, and candid,
that kind of leads me to thinkabout listening.
(34:52):
Listening is a huge part ofcommunication.
And so we're going to talk aboutthat right now.
But how often do you hear or seegood, strong leaders listening?
SPEAKER_00 (35:07):
All the time.
SPEAKER_01 (35:08):
Okay.
Tell me about it.
SPEAKER_00 (35:10):
Well, I think that...
good strong leaders take a stepa step back and kind of listen
to what's going on around them alot of times when a new leader
comes into like a new a newleader in a new organization
they take a few weeks to kind ofchew everything up and then you
know maybe make changes orwhatever it might be so like new
(35:34):
sheriff in town I don't knowthis.
I'm just saying.
I'm assuming that when he getsin, he's not going to just go in
and, like you said, like an ironfist.
He's going to go in.
He's going to listen to his newemployees.
He's going to interview people,see what's great, what's not
great, or whatever, and thenstart acting on it.
SPEAKER_01 (35:54):
And he's been doing that.
He started January 1st, TylerHooks, and he's been doing a
good job with that.
I was told that he's really beenan active listener to the
community.
And that he's taking it all inand making things right.
That's great.
That's what we want to hear.
Yeah, but look, active listeningand passive listening, let's say
(36:15):
active listening is really anactive thing.
And let me tell you, it's noteasy to do.
For some people it is.
It comes natural, maybe, but notto some.
And look, most leaders that Iknow, strong leaders, have
trouble with this area.
And I'll tell you that I havetrouble in this area.
Because...
As much as I like to listen, Ialso like to tell people what to
(36:37):
do because I like to see thingshappen.
I mean, really.
So I like to be the guy that'slike, I'm ready to go.
Let's go.
Let's do this thing.
Well, along the way, I have toslow myself down.
Like, hey, hey, hey, slow down.
Let's listen to what's going onbecause I don't know everything,
right?
And neither does anybody else.
But we've got to maintain thatposition.
(36:59):
And listening is super criticalto the leader's journey.
The level of influence that theleader has is directly impacted
by his ability to listenbecause, again, that's how you
influence others.
And so the biggest part ofcommunication, we can be clear,
complete, confident, consistent,courteous.
(37:23):
We can be all those things andnot listen and lead less, right?
So you've got to do all theseways that you're communicating
to these five C's, I guess we'llcall them the five C's, those
five C's, and then you have to,after doing all that, and even
before, you gotta listen, andtake it in, and then go from
there.
(37:44):
So the first thing, I tell mykids this all the time, the
first thing that comes to yourmind is probably not the right
thing to say.
Most of the time.
True.
You know, it's just the way itis.
And so what you want to do is becurious.
And we talked about that alittle bit, and I said I was
going to come back to that.
(38:05):
But being curious all the time,asking questions.
That's what the leader does.
SPEAKER_03 (38:10):
That's right.
SPEAKER_01 (38:11):
And the best leaders that I know ask questions and
never tell people what to do.
Think about this.
You can go through and read theGospels.
Jesus always asked questions.
It will blow your mind when yougo look at it through that lens.
(38:32):
Jesus was the greatest leaderthat ever walked the face of the
earth.
I'll just tell you.
And when you go and read theGospels and read about his life,
it was always questions.
And, yeah, I mean, he toldpeople questions.
how to live.
You look at the Sermon on theMount where he said, blessed are
those that do all these things.
He did give instruction, butmore times than not, they would
(38:54):
come to him and say, well,Jesus, what about this?
And he would ask a question.
And he would always speak inthird person.
And so why would you not takethose two things?
Ask questions, be curious, andwhat you're doing is you're
illuminating the, hey, look, youcan figure this out for
yourself.
Typically, if someone comes toyou and says, Daniel, how do I
(39:17):
do this right here?
Your kids, for example.
How do I do this, Dad?
Well, instead of telling them,if you'll ask the right
questions and then they figureit out on their own, you're at
the same time buildingconfidence.
And you're establishing yourplace as leader.
And then when they say, Dad, Icannot figure this out, then
(39:39):
help them.
And then I would even challengeyou to say, well, hey, just give
them confidence.
an idea of what they should do.
Still, don't give them theanswer.
And so I've found that in mytrade, in my industry, if
someone comes to me and says,how do I do this?
If I can just ask them the rightquestions to lead them to the
answer, they walk awayprofoundly motivated to do it
(40:03):
later.
But if I tell them, just dothis, they didn't learn
anything.
So you want people to learn fromyou, and you want people to—you
want to build influence withpeople.
That's how you do it.
And, you know, third person,man.
Look, Jesus spoke in thirdperson all the time.
(40:23):
And, you know, look, go back andread it.
It's very interesting.
But listening is key.
And I left it here at the lastpart because really and truly—
In a leader's communication,this is the most important, in
my opinion.
The leader's ability to listento everyone, both subordinates
or people that they report to,being able to listen, process,
(40:47):
and then communicate.
So you communicate these fiveways, man, you're going to be
clear.
And you know what?
You're going to lead, period.
So if you don't do these things,you're going to lead halfway,
and you're not going to leadwith greatness.
So if you have an email or aletter to someone, here's
(41:09):
another thing.
So have you ever?
I've done this before.
I'm just telling them myself.
So as a leader, okay, here wego.
This is good.
As a leader, I've ran into someissues before, and, man, I'm
fired up.
about something and I need tocommunicate something and I just
(41:30):
start replying on an email andI'm typing it up and I type like
four sentences and I'm ready tohit send and I wait I go back
and wait and I'll go back andread it the next day and I will
change every word in it becauseit did not need to be
(41:52):
communicated like that and soNow, a lot of times you don't
have that time.
You've got to communicate now,okay?
If that's the case, then youhave someone else read it.
SPEAKER_00 (42:04):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (42:05):
But you don't want to, if you're a leader, and
especially when you're talkingto your people, you don't want
to communicate the wrong thing,the wrong way.
And look, you might mean well,but you're saying it in a way
that is not helpful.
And so send it the next day, andyou'll change the words, and
it's better.
(42:25):
But don't act out of emotion.
So y'all heard me talk about Istruggle.
Look, a lot of this stuff isborn from my struggles.
I struggle with emotion.
I'm very passionate.
And, man, I'll get fired upabout something, and I don't
need to.
I need to slow down, relax, makeit so that it's going to land
(42:45):
well.
And
SPEAKER_03 (42:48):
go ahead.
It takes me to all these thingsare very slow to build.
And it takes time.
And what you're saying rightnow, it can all just be damaged.
Yes.
It crumbles so fast,
SPEAKER_01 (43:04):
so fast, so fast.
It's called the flesh, by theway.
The flesh, I don't know whateverybody believes, but the
flesh and the devil can reallyrock you.
I mean, he can just demobilizeyou.
As a leader now.
You're still going to survive,but you're losing influence.
If you're not doing these thingsright here, you're losing
(43:25):
influence.
And you want to get it back?
Go back to work on these things.
That's why this is important.
SPEAKER_00 (43:31):
It's almost like a routine.
Yeah.
You just said something a minuteago about how you had to step
back.
When you start needing torespond to something, it's
like...
Am I being clear?
It's like you've got to get intothat groove, and it goes in that
sequential order of the five Csthat you've got to learn.
(43:57):
You've got to learn that.
It's reps.
It's reps.
SPEAKER_01 (44:01):
It's constant learning and reps.
These aren't natural.
That's why everybody saysleadership can be taught, and it
100% can.
We're taking people to school onthis podcast.
If they'll do these things,they'll notice a dramatic
difference in their leadership.
Because these aren't natural.
(44:21):
These are taught, learnedprinciples.
You're not coming out of thewomb with this stuff.
In fact, you're the opposite.
And you learn this in thetrenches of leadership.
And, of course, leading,implementing.
And then when you see thesethings work, the needle begins
to move.
UNKNOWN (44:39):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (44:40):
Go back and review the email, right, or the text.
Change it.
Don't react emotionally.
That's so critical for
SPEAKER_00 (44:50):
the leader.
I think that's the hardest partfor me.
SPEAKER_01 (44:51):
It is.
Me too.
Hey, look, nobody's immune tothis, but you start acting in
the flesh and these things willnot be there and you will lose
influence.
Good.
That's it.
Good stuff.
All right, so should we decideto focus on these things?
We will build trust.
And it provides opportunity togrow in our businesses and
(45:15):
provide more opportunity forthose coming behind us, 100%.
And so I thought about doing ameaningful question today, but
what was the question you askeda while ago?
We're going to do this next weekwith Nick, but the question you
asked a while ago, I want to...
SPEAKER_00 (45:30):
Well, it was funny because I just...
It was an email.
I don't think you were in herebefore we started recording, but
there's...
an email that went out about oneof my daughter's things, and one
of the potential questions thatshe could be asked is, in your
opinion, what is the mostimportant quality a leader
should possess?
SPEAKER_01 (45:50):
Bro, mic drop.
SPEAKER_00 (45:52):
And I'm like, okay, so I get this email, and it's
just, you know, I don't know,kind of cool.
SPEAKER_01 (45:58):
We're asking Nick that question next week.
Ask it again.
SPEAKER_00 (46:02):
In your opinion, what is the most important
quality that a leader shouldpossess?
SPEAKER_01 (46:09):
And
SPEAKER_00 (46:10):
there's 20 of them.
We've got 20 of
SPEAKER_01 (46:12):
them.
Which one is most important?
That's a good question.
I don't know the answer.
SPEAKER_00 (46:21):
I'm really excited to hear what all the students
SPEAKER_01 (46:24):
say.
Before Nick comes, I'll tell youwhat I think.
And this has been in the balancefor me for some time.
And I haven't ever been askedquite that direct.
But I would say there's two forme.
I've got to figure
SPEAKER_00 (46:38):
out which one.
You've got to
SPEAKER_01 (46:39):
pick one.
I'll let you pick one.
So let me give my
SPEAKER_00 (46:42):
story.
I've got mine.
SPEAKER_01 (46:43):
Okay, so I think that trust...
So being present and beingtrustworthy are probably
foundational, in my opinion.
I've got to figure out whichone's more important.
But...
(47:03):
If you don't have trust, youdon't have anything.
So I would say that trustworthyand present is a good tie there.
I don't know.
And we'll have to unpack that.
Well, let's see what Nick saysnext week.
Okay?
But that's a meaningfulquestion.
Yeah.
And I want to camp out on thatfor a minute.
(47:23):
So that would be something thatwe
SPEAKER_00 (47:25):
could do.
Can I tell you mine?
SPEAKER_01 (47:26):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (47:26):
Communication and clarity.
Because, like, think about it.
You just said trust, but...
SPEAKER_01 (47:33):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (47:34):
Clarity, consistency, like those build
trust.
So if you don't have that, it'slike the chicken before the egg
or egg before the chicken orwhatever.
Well, that's
SPEAKER_03 (47:45):
the thing about these mandates is there's a...
They can all be the mostimportant at the right time when
the time comes.
And there's an argument forevery
SPEAKER_02 (47:56):
single one of them.
I was going to say.
There's an argument for all ofthem.
Dude, I would like to hear thosekids answer that question.
I know.
When is this happening?
February 8th.
I
SPEAKER_03 (48:04):
haven't told you guys this, but Sarah Jane told
me she wants to be on thepodcast.
Oh, cool.
And I was already thinking we'regoing to shoot.
some mini episodes oh yeah witheach like we're each going to
bring one of our kids
SPEAKER_01 (48:16):
oh yeah that's great and ask them some of these
questions so we're doing it Ilove it that's great so February
8th I want to know I really likeI want to go to that
SPEAKER_00 (48:25):
yeah
SPEAKER_01 (48:26):
because I can only imagine what kids would say the
answer to that is how old arethese kids
SPEAKER_00 (48:31):
so there's high schoolers and then there's
middle school which the middleschoolers don't have to answer
the question Morgan
SPEAKER_01 (48:37):
County's asking kids that bro that is on point
SPEAKER_00 (48:41):
It was pretty good.
SPEAKER_01 (48:42):
Yeah, I love it.
Cool.
All right, well, we're signingoff.
SPEAKER_00 (48:46):
Yep.
SPEAKER_01 (48:46):
Everybody good?
All hearts and minds are clear?
SPEAKER_00 (48:49):
Clear.
SPEAKER_01 (48:50):
See you next week.
Thanks, guys.
Yep, thank y'all.
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