Human Centered Design in Clinical Research w/ Dr. Noah Goodson

John Reites and Noah Goodson, PhD, explore the concept of human-centered design and its significance in clinical trials. They discuss the principles of human-centered design, how it can be applied in clinical research, and the importance of understanding user experiences to create effective systems. The conversation emphasizes the need for a thoughtful approach to design that prioritizes the needs of patients and stakeholders.

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Episode Transcript

SPEAKER_00 (00:00):
Human-centered design does matter quite a bit.

(00:02):
I think probably when peoplehear it in this industry, your
go-to thought is that it's somekind of rebranding of patient
centricity.
And it's actually not.
Human-centered design isactually a design theory, which
is an approach to how you designany system or product and how
you think about making thatreally work for people within
it.

SPEAKER_01 (00:30):
Dr.
Mr.
Reeds.
Hey, it's good to spend timewith you.
I really appreciate it.

SPEAKER_00 (00:35):
Happy to be here.

SPEAKER_01 (00:36):
I will tell you, it's been a few minutes since
the old days where we wouldrecord lots of clinical research
evolved.
I got to tell you, I really missit, and I wish we were doing it,
but this will work.
So I really do appreciate youspending a few minutes.

SPEAKER_00 (00:48):
Yeah, look, John, we're back here podcasting, but
this time we've forced folks toactually see our faces.
That's

SPEAKER_01 (00:54):
a great point.
So I apologize in advance foreverybody who doesn't get the
audio-only version.
Or that we've offended with ourfaces.
So I will.

(01:30):
Yeah, thanks for asking, John.
Yeah, I mean, I think

SPEAKER_00 (01:44):
human-centered design does matter quite a bit.
I think probably when peoplehear it in this industry, your
go-to thought is that it's somekind of rebranding of
patient-centricity, and it'sactually not.

SPEAKER_01 (01:56):
Yeah.

UNKNOWN (01:56):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (01:56):
Patient centricity isn't patient-centered outcomes
research or isn't an approach tohow you approach trials.
It's not that.
Human-centered design isactually a design theory, which
is an approach to how you designany system or product and how
you think about making thatreally work for people within
it.
So it was originally created bythe great design theorist Don
Norman, who's a very, veryfamous designer and design

(02:17):
thinker.
And the easiest way to explainit is just to share four
principles that he has, whichis, number one, when you're
thinking human-centered designin a design You're being, number
one, you're beingpeople-centered.
Number two, you're taking timeto understand and solve the
right problem.
A lot of times we rush to whatwe think the problem is.
It's this, it's that.

(02:38):
You're taking a little bit ofextra time to make sure you've
really unpacked what the problemis you need to solve.
Number three is that everythingis a system.
And those systems are actuallyinteracting with each other,
right?
The technology system, with theclinical research system, with
the healthcare system, they'reall mixing together in this
complex way.
And finally, what I love abouthuman-centered design is
principle number four, which ismake small, simple interventions

(03:01):
and make them iteratively,right?
So you don't go in and you trasheverything you've ever learned
about clinical trials.
You iteratively tweak themtowards a way that works better
for people.

SPEAKER_01 (03:12):
Yeah, it makes complete sense.
And then how do you take thatand apply it to a clinical
trial?
Like somebody comes in, I'm asponsor, I work at a CRO, I'm an
agency, I'm trying to design aclinical trial.
How do they utilizehuman-centered design?
What's it look like for them?

SPEAKER_00 (03:26):
Well, I I mean, you can honestly apply this across
so many of the challenges weface in clinical research.
And of course you can apply itin building any kind of product,
whether that's a digital productor a physical product, but you
can also apply it to systemsspecifically.
So a great example would be, I'mthinking of a use case from not
that long ago where a clientcomes in and they've got this
really complex neuro trial whereyou've got to collect some

(03:49):
really complicated endpoints.
And to collect this endpointdata, this clinician reported
outcome, you need some of itcollected directly the principal
investigator.
And you need some of itcollected by a separate party
called a central raider, whichis a raider that's been
specifically trained on this onescale of how to deliver it to
the participant.
And you need both the principalinvestigator and the central

(04:10):
raider and the participant toall be able to connect really
close in time, remotely, and beable to reliably collect this
very, very specific data so thatyou can go back to the
regulatory agencies and say,hey, our product really is
working and we can tell becauseof XYZ output.
Mapping that interact is a greatexercise in human-centered
design.
You map each user's journey, youmap how they interact, you

(04:33):
denote the tension points, andyou have really creative
conversations with your team ofexperts and with the users
themselves about how to bestresolve and mitigate those
tensions.
For example, scheduling, atechnology connection, et
cetera, to make sure that youbuild the best system for
everybody involved.
And that's something that we'rekind of doing on a really daily
basis.

SPEAKER_01 (04:53):
So if I'm that same user, like I'm at a biopharma.
I'm at a serum agency.
How do I apply this today?
How do I get started?
What do I do?

SPEAKER_00 (05:02):
Well, I think, I think if you want to get started
today, I think one of theeasiest things you can possibly
do is be empathetic.
And that means understanding andthinking about the experience of
another user.
So when I just drop this newthing on a research site, or I
just say, well, the participantneeds to do these, all these
assessments and a visit thinkingabout what that means.

(05:23):
Hey, this mother with her sickkid is is coming into the
doctor's office for eight hoursto do all of these things.
That's a lot with a non-sickkid.
That's right.
What's it going to be like withthis?
Is there any way I can splitthis up?
Is there any way I can alleviatethat burden while still
protecting my data?
I've got to collect the data.
Otherwise, there's no point inrunning the study.
But is there a way we can makethis a better experience that

(05:46):
maybe is easier for everyoneinvolved and still meets my end
goals?

SPEAKER_01 (05:49):
Yeah, that makes sense.
And then is that when you sortof dig into that further, this
journey map, is it literallylike a map with swim lanes and
process steps?
Is that what someone should gobuild or is there a different
kind of output that would mattermore to them?

SPEAKER_00 (06:03):
I mean, the real output is the decisions.
All the tools, all thehuman-centered design pieces are
just tools.
Yeah, you can definitely doprocess maps of all kinds of
standardized ways to do thatthat are extremely well denoted
in different places.
You can learn how to do this.
Those are tools.
The tools should lead you to theoutput.
And the output, if you rememberyour core principles, right, is
that we're being people-centeredand we're making small, simple

(06:25):
interventions.
And when we're, we're doingreally those two things
together, following thoseprinciples, if we're solving the
right problem and we'veunderstood how it interacts with
other systems, I think you'regoing to be really successful in
making better decisions, whetheryou're designing a trial or
whether you're applying it orwhether you're fixing a problem
in an ongoing study.

SPEAKER_01 (06:42):
It makes total sense.
Noah, I really appreciate youspending a few minutes to walk
through this for people.
Again, if they want to learnmore about human centered
design, they obviously canGoogle it.
There's a lot of YouTube,there's some great resources out
there, but if someone has thisreally specific question they
want to know about?
How do they get a hold of you?

SPEAKER_00 (06:58):
Yeah, you can find just find me on LinkedIn, Noah
Goodson on LinkedIn, I'd behappy to connect.
I love talking about this stuff.
And there's a lot more depth anddetail.
Practically, it's not just builda journey map vaguely vaguely,
you really need to you reallyneed to be kind of specific in
how you approach theseprocesses.
Otherwise, you're just adding asort of steps that aren't going
to be that lead you down thepath of success.

(07:19):
So it does matter how you do it.

SPEAKER_01 (07:20):
Makes total sense.
Noah, thanks a lot.
Good to see you.
And we'll talk again soon.

SPEAKER_00 (07:24):
Yeah, absolutely.

UNKNOWN (07:26):
Thank you.