June 24, 2025 • 27 mins
Randy Sears discusses his role as an education administrator in the Master of Management in Clinical Informatics (MMCI) program at Duke University. He reflects on his transition from a long career in technology to education, emphasizing the importance of shaping student experiences and fostering self-discovery. The discussion covers the significance of balancing entrepreneurial and executive skills in healthcare, the diverse perspectives brought by students in the MMCI program, and the value of higher education in personal and professional growth.
John Reites and Randy discuss the complexities of navigating life decisions related to education, the evolving landscape of higher education, and the impact of technology and generational changes on healthcare. They explore the value of advanced degrees, the influence of social media on educational choices, and the role of AI in both education and healthcare. The discussion emphasizes the importance of face-to-face learning experiences and the need for educational institutions to deliver real value to students.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_01 (00:00):
If I were to watch 10 YouTube videos and I see an
influencer
SPEAKER_02 (00:04):
that
SPEAKER_01 (00:06):
was at an Ivy League college and they're telling
somebody that basically collegeis great, you should go get an
advanced degree.
And then literally the nextswipe I do is some influencer
telling me college is a completewaste of your money.
You shouldn't spend any time inhigher education.
You should just, you know, Idon't know, go start a business,
go do whatever that is that theytell people.
What do you tell people?
people who have watched thatinfluencer on YouTube and really
(00:30):
are thinking through andwrestling with that advice.
Who is Randy and what do you doin clinical research?
SPEAKER_00 (00:48):
I'm an education administrator.
I run a program called Master ofManagement in Clinical
Informatics and I have a frontrow seat.
to healthcare professionalsgrowing in their careers.
And so I get to shape thatexperience for them.
That's the thing that excites methe most and watch them go
through that.
I work with students up close asthey work through a one-year
(01:09):
master's.
SPEAKER_01 (01:11):
You've been working at Duke's MMCI program,
obviously since the start, alittle over 10 years ago.
But before that, you had a verylong career in technology in the
Research Triangle Park area.
So How did that corporate careerin technology and a large, very
(01:31):
growth-oriented corporationprepare you to come over and
lead a program that focuses ongenerating the future of life
science and healthcareleadership professionals?
SPEAKER_00 (01:41):
Yeah, well, maybe it did or maybe it didn't, John.
The transition has gone,fortunately, extremely well.
I spent 25 years at Nortel in avariety of different roles, most
of them sales-oriented.
And as you might imagine,launching a new educational
program and telling the world itexists because it was another Me
Too educational opportunity oroffering.
(02:03):
It was a very different one.
So having that sense of how doyou tell the story about a new
offering and a sales background,I thought was tremendously
important in doing that.
That's been a very informativebackground to have in this.
And then there's all the otherthings about budgeting and
managing financial things,managing people and developing
(02:23):
people.
That was part of my earliercareer at Nortel.
It's part of this.
But I think as much as anything,it was the experience, selling
an idea, selling a solution thatI brought to this because I
spent a good bit of my timerecruiting.
That's a lot of our time andenergy right here.
SPEAKER_01 (02:41):
Let's get to the real question.
Do you get good Duke basketballtickets at Cameron?
SPEAKER_00 (02:48):
I get soccer tickets, John.
I wish I got basketball tickets.
There he is.
There's the blue devil.
SPEAKER_01 (02:55):
I know I ask you this every year, and I'm just
expecting like one year, you'relike, yeah, John, I've got these
extra seats, and you should justtake them from
SPEAKER_00 (03:01):
me.
Well, I won't keep that in mind,John.
You know, I grew up in theshadow of Duke, and I've
probably seen a ton of Dukebasketball when I was younger.
Most of the times I was sellingCokes in the stands.
SPEAKER_01 (03:14):
But did you graduate from UNC, though?
SPEAKER_00 (03:16):
I did.
A couple of times.
A couple of times.
That's true.
Yeah.
So, you know, I have to sort ofkeep that a secret.
SPEAKER_01 (03:22):
You do have to keep that.
I'm sorry.
I didn't mean to out yoursecret, but sorry about that.
I just say, tell people you werereformed.
You speak about this discoveryprocess and how you think about
considering higher education andhow it adapts and enhances your
career.
And so tell me more about that.
Like, what does that mean?
And how do you coach people tothink in that way?
SPEAKER_00 (03:43):
I think with my colleagues, Catherine and Ellen,
who does our career coaching, wecollectively think about how do
we shape the student experienceover the time they're going to
spend with us, which we get ayear with them.
And we are talking about workingprofessionals.
So they come in typicallyworking in health care.
They may be at the early part oftheir careers, they may be
mid-career.
So we have them walking in thedoor and we start thinking about
(04:06):
what do we want them to walk outthe door with?
We, to borrow a line from AlBuehler, who coached cross
country here and track hereforever, we begin with the end
in mind.
What do we see as a success whenwe imagine our students?
And then we start thinking, howdo we get them there?
The curriculum is obviously abig piece of that.
And we're bringing lots ofknowledge to them in a
(04:28):
curriculum different topics.
And then we start thinkingabout, so what will they do with
this knowledge?
And how do we help them discoverfor themselves what they will do
with this knowledge?
We bring in speakers of specialtopics just to introduce them to
ideas.
Folks like yourself, John, whotalked to our students, bring a
perspective to them and informthem.
(04:49):
And so we try to shape thatexperience is by introducing
them to a lot of things andletting them do a bit of
discovery.
And then Our career coach, ourfriend Ellen, has a curriculum
that helps them think about whatare the things that I really
care about or in a sense wouldlike to work on?
(05:09):
What are the things that I'mgood at?
And how do I begin to bringthose things together in a
career and a role?
And then if I'm good at this andI care about that, how do I
articulate that?
The value that if I were one ofour students, the value I would
bring an organization.
Here's what I care about.
Here's what I can do.
(05:30):
Here's what I want to do.
Here's what I can do in thisorganization.
So we think about that beginningwith the end in mind.
And we try to shape thatexperience and give them the
opportunity for self-discoveryand nudge them along the way.
Then we do some individualcoaching as
SPEAKER_01 (05:44):
well.
That discovery process I thinkis impactful.
And I think early in my career,I wish actually someone would
come along to me and ask me someof those questions.
Not that I think it would havechanged my trajectory because I
fell into clinical research.
I didn't, my only C in collegewas in biology.
I'm not equipped to be in thisindustry.
It happened to me incircumstances and I'm grateful
for it.
At the same You're right.
(06:06):
When you're in college, I don'tremember a lot of people asking
me those questions, helping meto discover when you're working
with students and you'rethinking through how to adapt
their career for clinicalresearch, this ability to help
them think not justentrepreneurially, which I think
is kind of in vogue to do.
It's cool to say, these are theentrepreneurs, these are the
people doing it.
(06:26):
But strategically to say, Iactually want you to hear what
it's like to be an entrepreneur,what it's like to be executive
is equally as important.
And balancing those two things,I think, is really a testament
of what you guys have set up andwhat I've really enjoyed.
SPEAKER_00 (06:39):
It seems to go well in our curriculum with our
students.
Think of our students often ashaving a consulting skill set,
one that you can take a problemapart, peel the layers of the
onion.
And then do the same thing forsolutions.
Think through it and then bringthat to life.
And then you've got to sell thatto somebody, John.
(07:00):
It can be internal.
Invest in this.
This is a better way of doingthings.
We can do this.
And here's what we'll get out ofit.
Or maybe it's truly anentrepreneurial effort.
And we've seen our students besuccessful.
SPEAKER_01 (07:12):
What is the Duke MMCI program and what does it
offer to students that get intoit?
SPEAKER_00 (07:17):
This was a creation, if you will, a fellow by the
name of Kevin Shulman, who wasthe founding director, with a
lot of other input and guidancefrom a number of healthcare
leaders at Duke.
They used, at the time, theHITECH Act as this catalyst for
what they believed was a newskill set that was needed in the
(07:37):
healthcare marketplace.
There was going to be far moredata that was structured in a
way that could be used than hadever been.
while we've always sort of beenawash with data, but putting
some structure to that.
And then the other thought was,now we're going to start doing
things with data, but it won'tjust be technology people doing
technology things.
We need to solve problems forclinical people, for consumers,
(07:59):
for users.
So how do they, they sort ofenvisioned a skill set that
would enable people to see theproblem as well as solutions
from more than one angle, thebusiness world, the clinical
world, and the technical world,if you want to think about those
as functional silos.
So Kevin believed that the ideabehind this program was to bring
a business framework to thinkingabout how technology and data
(08:22):
could be used in healthcare.
When we started, we were allexcited about new EHR systems.
Obviously, today it's all aboutAI.
It's hardly a conversationwithout it.
But the idea is still the same.
How do we think about, from aframework perspective, bringing
technology and data tohealthcare to solve a problem?
So the MMCI curriculum is builtto prepare people to do that.
(08:46):
And we get clinical, technical,and business people.
We learn from each other throughthe year.
It's an immersion of a year.
of people with differentbackgrounds and from across
healthcare.
Yes, we have people in providerorganizations, research
organizations, payerorganizations, medical device
organizations, and they're allsort of learning from each other
as part of that process.
(09:07):
That's what MMCI is all about.
SPEAKER_01 (09:09):
Whenever a new year starts, the exciting piece is
that you do such a good job ofgetting a variety of students.
I remember, I think it was acouple years ago, we were doing
like one of the kickoffs, likethe kickoff weekends, like boot
camp.
Boot camp.
And people are going aroundintroducing themselves.
And you had, you know, justfinished undergrad into program,
(09:30):
running a division of FDA, headof big pharma patient
recruitment.
And it was, you know, people arejust spouting this off.
And then where are they from?
California.
I'm doing a side from India.
I'm over here from Spain.
And so for me, I think one ofthe most exciting things is
really thinking not just aboutwho comes into the program, but
sort of the mindset they come inwith to work as teams, right?
(09:53):
Meaning you We've got seasonedpeople, new people and people
with different backgrounds.
I think that's really intriguingand different.
And that's how you learn, right?
You learn from these completelydifferent ideas and hearing the
same thing said from somebodywho has a very different
background, a differentperspective.
It's just always been amazing tome how that works.
SPEAKER_00 (10:11):
I think it's one of the coolest moments in the
program is to go around the roomand let folks introduce
themselves for the first timeand look at everybody else's
sort of expressions going, wow.
And then I love to see that whenfaculty will start a new course
and they'll say, tell me alittle bit about yourselves.
And then what are you lookingfor out of the program?
That sort of thing.
Yeah, that's a very cool moment.
(10:34):
But it also makes a very richeducational experience.
It is peer to peer.
I mean, our classroomdiscussions, as you well know,
are pretty lively.
And so, you know, these arethoughtful folks who know what
they know well and what they'relearning and challenge each
other and add to each other'sthoughts.
SPEAKER_01 (10:55):
For those listening that are thinking about higher
education, advancing theircareer, adding more to the
repertoire for a long-termcareer trajectory, What I wanted
people to hear was that there'sactually other opportunities
besides I go to get an MBA andthe program is, you know, I've
got to take off a work on thesedays that there's actually a lot
of other options andopportunities out there.
(11:15):
Because I don't think we talkabout this as much as I'd like
to see in clinical research andspecifically with that lens.
So there's an individual who'sthinking about, I'm interested
in higher education.
I'm trying to assess if that'sgood for me, if I can fit it
into my schedule at work, mylife schedule with my kids, my
family.
How do you recommend someoneassess that on their own?
SPEAKER_00 (11:35):
One of the things that we say to every individual
perspective student is, numberone, it's a very busy year.
You're going to continue yourlife working.
You're not looking to stop workto do this.
You're going to need a supportsystem that is also on board
with you.
In fact, I just said, as we'vebeen writing our incoming class,
because we'll start again inlate July, I've been writing
(11:55):
them and reminding them, getyour support system on board.
Maybe you pay forward somethings you can do now because
you're not going to be able todo nearly the things you've been
doing.
That's the one that's just beingupfront about the time demand.
I think the the way they graspthat even more importantly is to
talk to a current student, talkto a former student.
And former students and currentstudents and visiting class are
(12:19):
the best way, I think, to learnabout any academic program.
Both, you know, pick the brainsof the people in it.
How are you managing it?
What have you let go?
What have you had to manage yourtime?
Time management is obviously ahuge one.
And I think not hiding from thefact that this is very demanding
And build that in.
The nice part is everybody tellsme when they begin the program,
(12:41):
oh, I could do anything for 12months.
I think the fact that you canput a beginning and an end to it
that looks like 12 months isreally important.
SPEAKER_01 (12:50):
On the reverse, we all know that higher education
is important.
It's valuable, but it has to bewith the right timing.
I don't have a higher education.
I actually don't have that kindof a degree.
SPEAKER_02 (13:00):
And
SPEAKER_01 (13:01):
really because of where I was at in my career and
financially, I dug in and tooksome different routes because
that's what I had to do.
Not because someone would havecome along and I would have been
able to figure out how to makethe time.
I would have really appreciatedit.
So for people that were like mein that sort of situation or in
that situation today in theircareer that can take this advice
that you've given and assess,you know, why they should go
(13:22):
into higher education, why theyshould spend time with advanced
degree.
What's the inverse?
How would you convince somebodyto not do it and maybe not spend
the time or convince them thetiming's not right?
SPEAKER_00 (13:33):
When you think about higher education, a quality
program, a Duke program,institutions like Duke, they're
going to take you somewhere.
And that first question you haveto be able to answer is, is that
somewhere they're going to takeme where I want to go?
Because if it's not, And it'snot going to get you what you
want.
A, that's the wrong program.
It still doesn't mean thereisn't a right program, but
(13:54):
that's the wrong program.
Now, the second phase of thatquestion you're asking is maybe
education is not right for me.
I don't need to invest money.
time, money, and a formaleducation.
There are so many opportunitiesto learn specific skills and
knowledge online, and a lot ofpeople self-educate.
(14:14):
And I think they do really well.
I mean, you know, you have tobring a discipline to that.
We just had a panel Thursdaynight where three of our
graduates were doing a deep diveabout AI and how they're using
it in their careers.
They didn't learn all of that.
in MMCI.
I wish I could take credit forthat.
They learned the basics.
They learned foundational thingsand they learned framework for
(14:36):
thinking about it.
But they've applied themselvesin learning ever since and to
continue to grow.
So could a person do thatwithout formal education?
Of course they could.
Formal education maybe is theeasier pathway, to be honest
with you.
At least it's organized and youhave a beginning and the end and
somebody's really thought hardabout the
SPEAKER_01 (14:53):
curriculum.
Fair point.
SPEAKER_00 (14:55):
Right?
UNKNOWN (14:56):
But
SPEAKER_00 (14:57):
Education is knowledge and you can gain it a
lot of ways.
But yeah, I look at ourgraduates.
And in fact, we're surveying ouralums now because we've got 15
years of alums.
427 are out there and another 27will be out there in about two
months.
And we're now looking at theircareers since MMCI.
(15:19):
How did the program serve them?
And what have they added totheir careers, maybe from a
knowledge and education pointsense, and how are their careers
growing?
So I think people who have astrong curiosity, John, this has
got to be you.
People who have a strongcuriosity continue to learn.
They're self-learners, and theyjust want to know how things
(15:39):
work.
So I can't say that's not a goodpathway.
It is a good
SPEAKER_01 (15:43):
pathway.
When you think of a highereducation, it's an investment of
time.
It's an investment of capital.
It's an investment, like yousaid, of having to all-in
support, getting a support teamof people.
But I haven't actually metsomebody that's gone through a
program and said that it was aterrible idea and a waste of
their money.
The thing I encourage people,and I got this question, it's
actually what precipitated thiswhole discussion to even to get
(16:07):
you on inclusion criteria, issomeone had reached out to me
and said, I'm really interestedin the program.
Tell me why I shouldn't do it.
That was their question.
And I felt good because that's agood question.
And I sort of said, here's whyyou shouldn't.
But a lot of those weren'tbecause of the longer term
value.
It was really timing.
But what I was trying toencourage them is, hey, think
through right now.
Is your life going to be anydifferent in five years?
(16:27):
It's just going to get morecomplicated.
And so again, I'm also aproponent, just like if you've
got a startup idea and you wantto do something, unless it's a
terrible idea, which is adifferent discussion, if you're
going to start something, startit.
SPEAKER_00 (16:41):
Just get going.
I think there may not be theperfect time to go back to
school, so to speak, but thereare better times and worse
times.
And that's a life decision,right?
That's a life decision.
SPEAKER_01 (16:53):
There's this principle that I've heard many
times from different people anddifferent ways that they say it,
but it's this choosing to cheatconcept.
And that every season of yourlife, you're going to have to
cheat something.
Meaning you can't be fullyinvested in your education.
You can't be fully invested inyour work.
You can't be fully invested inyour family.
You've got to pick.
People think about balance.
(17:13):
I don't know what balance is.
I haven't had balance in a longtime.
I don't know what that is.
But I do think this principle offiguring out like, hey, for this
six-month period, I'm going topull back on this because I need
to go cheat and spend some timeon that.
And what's interesting is a lotof the executives that you put
out of the program, some peopleI keep up with and still talk
to, ran into one last week,amazing leaders in healthcare
(17:35):
and life sciences.
That's kind of what they did.
They went to their families andsaid, hey, I need to do this.
Can we rework this and make ithappen?
And so I hear you.
And I think if this is somethingthat you want to do, it's an
investment and you have toconsider it that way.
And the encouragement I'd giveis that there are ways to do it
and they're going to bedifficult.
But thinking through that andgetting that right, I think is a
(17:55):
really important decision tomake.
And everybody needs to make thatdecision at some point, once or
twice even in their career.
Thanks for walking through whatthe program is and how to think
through.
I think that's what ourlisteners might get the best
advantage from is thinkingthrough higher education.
No matter where you're at inyour career, career in clinical
research.
We have individuals that areearlier.
We have individuals that havebeen in doing it for 20 plus
years.
They're saying, hey, I'm nowthinking I want to spend some
(18:17):
time here.
And I think it's a reallyhealthy career conversation.
Let's flip to some of the thingsthat are trending because I
actually, maybe for the firsttime in quite some time, I think
education is trending indiscussions.
And the reason it's trending issort of the complexity of what
you said, online education.
(18:39):
YouTube arguably being thebiggest television program there
is.
And now we've got AI.
If I were to watch 10 YouTubevideos and I see an influencer
that was at Ivy League Collegeand they're telling somebody
that basically, college isgreat, you should go get an
advanced degree.
(18:59):
And then literally the nextswipe I do is some influencer
telling me, College is acomplete waste of your money.
You shouldn't spend any time inhigher education.
You should just, you know, Idon't know, go start a business,
go do whatever that is that theytell people.
What do you tell people who havewatched that influencer on
YouTube and really are thinkingthrough and wrestling with that
advice that not doing advanceddegrees and maybe college is on
(19:23):
its way out over time.
What do you tell somebody thatsees that on the interwebs?
SPEAKER_00 (19:28):
I think the first conversation that we have when
we see that sort of thing, andit happens, you're right, all
the time, is that peoplequestion the value of higher
education.
It's certainly gone up in priceand that sort of thing, which
makes that return on investmentcalculation even more difficult.
So I think the first thing Ithink of, and I was talking
about my colleagues I do thiswith, is that are we delivering
(19:51):
value?
Can they walk out of thisprogram and say, wow, it was a
life-changing moment?
Because if we're not deliveringvalue, then there is a problem
with the value equation.
There is a problem with thereturn.
So first and foremost, we'relooking internally going, we've
got to make sure we delivervalue.
And then we take that messagingout and we sort of make it the
proposition for choosing thisprogram is that we're going to
(20:14):
deliver you this value.
And these things are going tohappen.
And then look, look at the folkswho've graduated.
Talk to them.
Look at this faculty.
This faculty are amazing thoughtleaders.
You can't get that packaged upvery easily in 12 months with
that many thought leaders.
So it definitely is a means toan end that's highly effective.
(20:36):
And so that's kind of the way weapproach it is we are committed
to delivering value to you thatwill be impactful to your
career.
These are the ways we do it withthought leaders, with
programming.
with the whole experience andimmersion with other people who
are like you and that they'reworking professionals and
they're trying to build careersin healthcare, but they're
different from you because theyhave different backgrounds.
(20:57):
I think higher education hasdone its own damage to its own
reputation by being happy to putsomething out there, but not
really thinking about, are wedelivering?
So I think higher education hasgotten that message in the last
few years that just because youoffer a degree and someone has
got to earn it, your work's notdone.
They've chosen you, but they'vechosen you and you really are on
(21:20):
the hook to deliver.
SPEAKER_01 (21:21):
YouTube has kind of changed a lot of things, right?
Because one, you've got peoplewho care, who know what they're
talking about who are onYouTube.
And then you've got, as we allknow, and for those of you who
have kids or older kids like me,you have to deal with these
conversations where you're like,okay, listen, this person
doesn't know what they'retalking about.
And they've never actuallyworked in a company in their
whole life when I'm watchingsomething online.
(21:42):
And I think that sometimespeople sort of, they think about
education as information thatgoes into your head, not as a
work process that you go throughto do it.
Right.
the things that I learned, Ilearned by doing them.
And I actually learned more bydoing and failing or messing
something up than I did fromlearning and going, yes, I can
repeat that and doing it.
And so I do think that, yes, itis a trend.
(22:04):
But I'm really hopeful thatpeople are seeing that trend as
a component of education, not asthe replacement of education.
It's the approach
SPEAKER_00 (22:11):
we've taken is to have a little bit of blend.
There is a need to meet peoplewho are working across the
country who would have to maketrips to meet them where they
are a little bit.
But I would not be interested inrunning a complete online
program, even though we didduring COVID.
And we did it for a class and ahalf.
And I think we worked reallyhard to try to enhance
(22:33):
relationship building.
through virtual environments,and it can be done.
But nothing's nearly as good asthe face-to-face.
I expect as much learning andconnection happens between class
and during breaks as it doesduring class.
It's a really important part ofbeing together face-to-face.
SPEAKER_01 (22:53):
And when you think about AI and education, I think
people are making a lot ofassertions about how it's going
to impact education, how it'sgoing to change education.
But can I take a different sideof that coin?
Can you tell me, what are youall thinking about in how to
educate students and how tothink about and use AI and apply
AI or be scared of AI anddifferent elements, like
(23:13):
whatever those aspects are?
So forget the sort of macro viewof how it impacts the program
over time, good or bad, butreally think What are you doing
in the program that's helping toequip students to be in front of
or in advance of the changesthat are actually happening in
AI?
The challenge
SPEAKER_00 (23:32):
is education.
Did you write your paper or didAI write it for you?
So that's kind of the academicside of it.
The reality is we want people touse AI.
not to do their work for them,but as an effective tool.
So we talk a lot about AI.
I expect that all our studentsuse it in one form or another.
Every faculty person has theirguidelines for how it can be
(23:55):
used and in what ways.
But I think particularly theclinical informatics faculty
that make up part of ourcurriculum expect students to
use the technology.
We got into an interestingconversation in the panel the
other night about And this is adownside.
Who's liable when the machine'swrong?
And the physician on the panelsays, well, it's the people who
(24:17):
made the machine.
It's the software.
It's the tool.
It's the AI tool.
The consultant says, well, I'veyet to see contracts that really
put the liability back to that.
You're the user.
You have to be responsible.
So there are things that arecomplex here.
around AI that we talk about astopics in the classroom as part
(24:40):
of our formal education.
How would we deploy AI in waysthat it can be trusted?
SPEAKER_01 (24:46):
One of the other things I just know personally
is, you know, for not beingscared of things, for looking
ahead and saying, hey, this iscoming.
Maybe I don't understand thefull impact of it, but we are
going to be in front of it, notwaiting for it.
When you think about highereducation or the thinking you
get in higher education is thisidea very stoic view of this is
(25:06):
just going to happen.
And the only thing I can controlis me.
So I'm going to apply me to thisthing that's happening and I'm
going to figure it out.
I think it's such an importantconcept and one that you see in
students, right?
That are thinking about highereducation because they're not
scared of what's coming.
Figure out how to use it to makethe change that's really
impactful and important to themto see in clinical research.
SPEAKER_00 (25:30):
But I do think, and I do think though that education
is, is struggling, obviously,like others, with how to use it
in a way that's effective.
Education is being accomplished,not just we learn to do better
prompts, but that we can stillthink critically and all those
other sorts of things.
So we see it as a tool to beengaged, to be used, and to be
(25:50):
managed.
SPEAKER_01 (25:53):
I think part of the educational journey is There's
things that have been going onfor 100 years that you learn
about educationally.
You learn about history becausehistory is so much the indicator
of the future.
But being able to balanceunderstanding that and what's
currently happening is it's thebasis for good education, in my
opinion.
If someone wants to learn moreabout Duke's MMCI program,
(26:13):
what's the best next step?
SPEAKER_00 (26:15):
The best next step is to reach out and let's have a
conversation.
You can do that very easily byjust writing us at
mmci.duke.edu.
That'll get an email right tous.
We'll engage in a conversation.
We would certainly encouragepeople to visit class, and we
would connect folks withstudents or alums to talk to
(26:36):
them about their experience.
But it starts with aconversation.
And what we're really lookingfor is people who really want to
change healthcare, believe thattechnology and data are enablers
and tools to do that, and wantto be part of leading that
effort.
So that's who we're looking for.
SPEAKER_01 (26:51):
And Randy, if someone wants to connect to you
specifically, what's the bestway to reach you?
SPEAKER_00 (26:55):
I'm old school, John.
We're talking about advancedtechnology.
I'll take an email.
r.sears at duke.edu is my email.
I'm on LinkedIn.
I love to connect to folks.
SPEAKER_01 (27:06):
Randy, thanks so much.
Go Duke.
SPEAKER_00 (27:09):
Yeah, go Duke.
John, I know I have a differentcolor blue blood inside, but the
truth of matters, this is anexcellent institution.
And excellence is what thisplace is all about.
I am very fortunate to be partof what goes on in this place.
This is an amazing place.
SPEAKER_01 (27:24):
Randy, they're fortunate to have you.
I appreciate you spending timewith us.
Thanks for helping everyonelistening to Inclusion Cracked
here to learn a little bit moreabout high education, how to
think through it, and how tothink some about these trends
that are going on.
So, Randy, good to see you, andwe'll talk to you again soon.
Thanks so much.
Thank you.
If I were to watch 10 YouTube videos and I see an
influencer
SPEAKER_02 (00:04):
that
SPEAKER_01 (00:06):
was at an Ivy League college and they're telling
somebody that basically collegeis great, you should go get an
advanced degree.
And then literally the nextswipe I do is some influencer
telling me college is a completewaste of your money.
You shouldn't spend any time inhigher education.
You should just, you know, Idon't know, go start a business,
go do whatever that is that theytell people.
What do you tell people?
people who have watched thatinfluencer on YouTube and really
(00:30):
are thinking through andwrestling with that advice.
Who is Randy and what do you doin clinical research?
SPEAKER_00 (00:48):
I'm an education administrator.
I run a program called Master ofManagement in Clinical
Informatics and I have a frontrow seat.
to healthcare professionalsgrowing in their careers.
And so I get to shape thatexperience for them.
That's the thing that excites methe most and watch them go
through that.
I work with students up close asthey work through a one-year
(01:09):
master's.
SPEAKER_01 (01:11):
You've been working at Duke's MMCI program,
obviously since the start, alittle over 10 years ago.
But before that, you had a verylong career in technology in the
Research Triangle Park area.
So How did that corporate careerin technology and a large, very
(01:31):
growth-oriented corporationprepare you to come over and
lead a program that focuses ongenerating the future of life
science and healthcareleadership professionals?
SPEAKER_00 (01:41):
Yeah, well, maybe it did or maybe it didn't, John.
The transition has gone,fortunately, extremely well.
I spent 25 years at Nortel in avariety of different roles, most
of them sales-oriented.
And as you might imagine,launching a new educational
program and telling the world itexists because it was another Me
Too educational opportunity oroffering.
(02:03):
It was a very different one.
So having that sense of how doyou tell the story about a new
offering and a sales background,I thought was tremendously
important in doing that.
That's been a very informativebackground to have in this.
And then there's all the otherthings about budgeting and
managing financial things,managing people and developing
(02:23):
people.
That was part of my earliercareer at Nortel.
It's part of this.
But I think as much as anything,it was the experience, selling
an idea, selling a solution thatI brought to this because I
spent a good bit of my timerecruiting.
That's a lot of our time andenergy right here.
SPEAKER_01 (02:41):
Let's get to the real question.
Do you get good Duke basketballtickets at Cameron?
SPEAKER_00 (02:48):
I get soccer tickets, John.
I wish I got basketball tickets.
There he is.
There's the blue devil.
SPEAKER_01 (02:55):
I know I ask you this every year, and I'm just
expecting like one year, you'relike, yeah, John, I've got these
extra seats, and you should justtake them from
SPEAKER_00 (03:01):
me.
Well, I won't keep that in mind,John.
You know, I grew up in theshadow of Duke, and I've
probably seen a ton of Dukebasketball when I was younger.
Most of the times I was sellingCokes in the stands.
SPEAKER_01 (03:14):
But did you graduate from UNC, though?
SPEAKER_00 (03:16):
I did.
A couple of times.
A couple of times.
That's true.
Yeah.
So, you know, I have to sort ofkeep that a secret.
SPEAKER_01 (03:22):
You do have to keep that.
I'm sorry.
I didn't mean to out yoursecret, but sorry about that.
I just say, tell people you werereformed.
You speak about this discoveryprocess and how you think about
considering higher education andhow it adapts and enhances your
career.
And so tell me more about that.
Like, what does that mean?
And how do you coach people tothink in that way?
SPEAKER_00 (03:43):
I think with my colleagues, Catherine and Ellen,
who does our career coaching, wecollectively think about how do
we shape the student experienceover the time they're going to
spend with us, which we get ayear with them.
And we are talking about workingprofessionals.
So they come in typicallyworking in health care.
They may be at the early part oftheir careers, they may be
mid-career.
So we have them walking in thedoor and we start thinking about
(04:06):
what do we want them to walk outthe door with?
We, to borrow a line from AlBuehler, who coached cross
country here and track hereforever, we begin with the end
in mind.
What do we see as a success whenwe imagine our students?
And then we start thinking, howdo we get them there?
The curriculum is obviously abig piece of that.
And we're bringing lots ofknowledge to them in a
(04:28):
curriculum different topics.
And then we start thinkingabout, so what will they do with
this knowledge?
And how do we help them discoverfor themselves what they will do
with this knowledge?
We bring in speakers of specialtopics just to introduce them to
ideas.
Folks like yourself, John, whotalked to our students, bring a
perspective to them and informthem.
(04:49):
And so we try to shape thatexperience is by introducing
them to a lot of things andletting them do a bit of
discovery.
And then Our career coach, ourfriend Ellen, has a curriculum
that helps them think about whatare the things that I really
care about or in a sense wouldlike to work on?
(05:09):
What are the things that I'mgood at?
And how do I begin to bringthose things together in a
career and a role?
And then if I'm good at this andI care about that, how do I
articulate that?
The value that if I were one ofour students, the value I would
bring an organization.
Here's what I care about.
Here's what I can do.
(05:30):
Here's what I want to do.
Here's what I can do in thisorganization.
So we think about that beginningwith the end in mind.
And we try to shape thatexperience and give them the
opportunity for self-discoveryand nudge them along the way.
Then we do some individualcoaching as
SPEAKER_01 (05:44):
well.
That discovery process I thinkis impactful.
And I think early in my career,I wish actually someone would
come along to me and ask me someof those questions.
Not that I think it would havechanged my trajectory because I
fell into clinical research.
I didn't, my only C in collegewas in biology.
I'm not equipped to be in thisindustry.
It happened to me incircumstances and I'm grateful
for it.
At the same You're right.
(06:06):
When you're in college, I don'tremember a lot of people asking
me those questions, helping meto discover when you're working
with students and you'rethinking through how to adapt
their career for clinicalresearch, this ability to help
them think not justentrepreneurially, which I think
is kind of in vogue to do.
It's cool to say, these are theentrepreneurs, these are the
people doing it.
(06:26):
But strategically to say, Iactually want you to hear what
it's like to be an entrepreneur,what it's like to be executive
is equally as important.
And balancing those two things,I think, is really a testament
of what you guys have set up andwhat I've really enjoyed.
SPEAKER_00 (06:39):
It seems to go well in our curriculum with our
students.
Think of our students often ashaving a consulting skill set,
one that you can take a problemapart, peel the layers of the
onion.
And then do the same thing forsolutions.
Think through it and then bringthat to life.
And then you've got to sell thatto somebody, John.
(07:00):
It can be internal.
Invest in this.
This is a better way of doingthings.
We can do this.
And here's what we'll get out ofit.
Or maybe it's truly anentrepreneurial effort.
And we've seen our students besuccessful.
SPEAKER_01 (07:12):
What is the Duke MMCI program and what does it
offer to students that get intoit?
SPEAKER_00 (07:17):
This was a creation, if you will, a fellow by the
name of Kevin Shulman, who wasthe founding director, with a
lot of other input and guidancefrom a number of healthcare
leaders at Duke.
They used, at the time, theHITECH Act as this catalyst for
what they believed was a newskill set that was needed in the
(07:37):
healthcare marketplace.
There was going to be far moredata that was structured in a
way that could be used than hadever been.
while we've always sort of beenawash with data, but putting
some structure to that.
And then the other thought was,now we're going to start doing
things with data, but it won'tjust be technology people doing
technology things.
We need to solve problems forclinical people, for consumers,
(07:59):
for users.
So how do they, they sort ofenvisioned a skill set that
would enable people to see theproblem as well as solutions
from more than one angle, thebusiness world, the clinical
world, and the technical world,if you want to think about those
as functional silos.
So Kevin believed that the ideabehind this program was to bring
a business framework to thinkingabout how technology and data
(08:22):
could be used in healthcare.
When we started, we were allexcited about new EHR systems.
Obviously, today it's all aboutAI.
It's hardly a conversationwithout it.
But the idea is still the same.
How do we think about, from aframework perspective, bringing
technology and data tohealthcare to solve a problem?
So the MMCI curriculum is builtto prepare people to do that.
(08:46):
And we get clinical, technical,and business people.
We learn from each other throughthe year.
It's an immersion of a year.
of people with differentbackgrounds and from across
healthcare.
Yes, we have people in providerorganizations, research
organizations, payerorganizations, medical device
organizations, and they're allsort of learning from each other
as part of that process.
(09:07):
That's what MMCI is all about.
SPEAKER_01 (09:09):
Whenever a new year starts, the exciting piece is
that you do such a good job ofgetting a variety of students.
I remember, I think it was acouple years ago, we were doing
like one of the kickoffs, likethe kickoff weekends, like boot
camp.
Boot camp.
And people are going aroundintroducing themselves.
And you had, you know, justfinished undergrad into program,
(09:30):
running a division of FDA, headof big pharma patient
recruitment.
And it was, you know, people arejust spouting this off.
And then where are they from?
California.
I'm doing a side from India.
I'm over here from Spain.
And so for me, I think one ofthe most exciting things is
really thinking not just aboutwho comes into the program, but
sort of the mindset they come inwith to work as teams, right?
(09:53):
Meaning you We've got seasonedpeople, new people and people
with different backgrounds.
I think that's really intriguingand different.
And that's how you learn, right?
You learn from these completelydifferent ideas and hearing the
same thing said from somebodywho has a very different
background, a differentperspective.
It's just always been amazing tome how that works.
SPEAKER_00 (10:11):
I think it's one of the coolest moments in the
program is to go around the roomand let folks introduce
themselves for the first timeand look at everybody else's
sort of expressions going, wow.
And then I love to see that whenfaculty will start a new course
and they'll say, tell me alittle bit about yourselves.
And then what are you lookingfor out of the program?
That sort of thing.
Yeah, that's a very cool moment.
(10:34):
But it also makes a very richeducational experience.
It is peer to peer.
I mean, our classroomdiscussions, as you well know,
are pretty lively.
And so, you know, these arethoughtful folks who know what
they know well and what they'relearning and challenge each
other and add to each other'sthoughts.
SPEAKER_01 (10:55):
For those listening that are thinking about higher
education, advancing theircareer, adding more to the
repertoire for a long-termcareer trajectory, What I wanted
people to hear was that there'sactually other opportunities
besides I go to get an MBA andthe program is, you know, I've
got to take off a work on thesedays that there's actually a lot
of other options andopportunities out there.
(11:15):
Because I don't think we talkabout this as much as I'd like
to see in clinical research andspecifically with that lens.
So there's an individual who'sthinking about, I'm interested
in higher education.
I'm trying to assess if that'sgood for me, if I can fit it
into my schedule at work, mylife schedule with my kids, my
family.
How do you recommend someoneassess that on their own?
SPEAKER_00 (11:35):
One of the things that we say to every individual
perspective student is, numberone, it's a very busy year.
You're going to continue yourlife working.
You're not looking to stop workto do this.
You're going to need a supportsystem that is also on board
with you.
In fact, I just said, as we'vebeen writing our incoming class,
because we'll start again inlate July, I've been writing
(11:55):
them and reminding them, getyour support system on board.
Maybe you pay forward somethings you can do now because
you're not going to be able todo nearly the things you've been
doing.
That's the one that's just beingupfront about the time demand.
I think the the way they graspthat even more importantly is to
talk to a current student, talkto a former student.
And former students and currentstudents and visiting class are
(12:19):
the best way, I think, to learnabout any academic program.
Both, you know, pick the brainsof the people in it.
How are you managing it?
What have you let go?
What have you had to manage yourtime?
Time management is obviously ahuge one.
And I think not hiding from thefact that this is very demanding
And build that in.
The nice part is everybody tellsme when they begin the program,
(12:41):
oh, I could do anything for 12months.
I think the fact that you canput a beginning and an end to it
that looks like 12 months isreally important.
SPEAKER_01 (12:50):
On the reverse, we all know that higher education
is important.
It's valuable, but it has to bewith the right timing.
I don't have a higher education.
I actually don't have that kindof a degree.
SPEAKER_02 (13:00):
And
SPEAKER_01 (13:01):
really because of where I was at in my career and
financially, I dug in and tooksome different routes because
that's what I had to do.
Not because someone would havecome along and I would have been
able to figure out how to makethe time.
I would have really appreciatedit.
So for people that were like mein that sort of situation or in
that situation today in theircareer that can take this advice
that you've given and assess,you know, why they should go
(13:22):
into higher education, why theyshould spend time with advanced
degree.
What's the inverse?
How would you convince somebodyto not do it and maybe not spend
the time or convince them thetiming's not right?
SPEAKER_00 (13:33):
When you think about higher education, a quality
program, a Duke program,institutions like Duke, they're
going to take you somewhere.
And that first question you haveto be able to answer is, is that
somewhere they're going to takeme where I want to go?
Because if it's not, And it'snot going to get you what you
want.
A, that's the wrong program.
It still doesn't mean thereisn't a right program, but
(13:54):
that's the wrong program.
Now, the second phase of thatquestion you're asking is maybe
education is not right for me.
I don't need to invest money.
time, money, and a formaleducation.
There are so many opportunitiesto learn specific skills and
knowledge online, and a lot ofpeople self-educate.
(14:14):
And I think they do really well.
I mean, you know, you have tobring a discipline to that.
We just had a panel Thursdaynight where three of our
graduates were doing a deep diveabout AI and how they're using
it in their careers.
They didn't learn all of that.
in MMCI.
I wish I could take credit forthat.
They learned the basics.
They learned foundational thingsand they learned framework for
(14:36):
thinking about it.
But they've applied themselvesin learning ever since and to
continue to grow.
So could a person do thatwithout formal education?
Of course they could.
Formal education maybe is theeasier pathway, to be honest
with you.
At least it's organized and youhave a beginning and the end and
somebody's really thought hardabout the
SPEAKER_01 (14:53):
curriculum.
Fair point.
SPEAKER_00 (14:55):
Right?
UNKNOWN (14:56):
But
SPEAKER_00 (14:57):
Education is knowledge and you can gain it a
lot of ways.
But yeah, I look at ourgraduates.
And in fact, we're surveying ouralums now because we've got 15
years of alums.
427 are out there and another 27will be out there in about two
months.
And we're now looking at theircareers since MMCI.
(15:19):
How did the program serve them?
And what have they added totheir careers, maybe from a
knowledge and education pointsense, and how are their careers
growing?
So I think people who have astrong curiosity, John, this has
got to be you.
People who have a strongcuriosity continue to learn.
They're self-learners, and theyjust want to know how things
(15:39):
work.
So I can't say that's not a goodpathway.
It is a good
SPEAKER_01 (15:43):
pathway.
When you think of a highereducation, it's an investment of
time.
It's an investment of capital.
It's an investment, like yousaid, of having to all-in
support, getting a support teamof people.
But I haven't actually metsomebody that's gone through a
program and said that it was aterrible idea and a waste of
their money.
The thing I encourage people,and I got this question, it's
actually what precipitated thiswhole discussion to even to get
(16:07):
you on inclusion criteria, issomeone had reached out to me
and said, I'm really interestedin the program.
Tell me why I shouldn't do it.
That was their question.
And I felt good because that's agood question.
And I sort of said, here's whyyou shouldn't.
But a lot of those weren'tbecause of the longer term
value.
It was really timing.
But what I was trying toencourage them is, hey, think
through right now.
Is your life going to be anydifferent in five years?
(16:27):
It's just going to get morecomplicated.
And so again, I'm also aproponent, just like if you've
got a startup idea and you wantto do something, unless it's a
terrible idea, which is adifferent discussion, if you're
going to start something, startit.
SPEAKER_00 (16:41):
Just get going.
I think there may not be theperfect time to go back to
school, so to speak, but thereare better times and worse
times.
And that's a life decision,right?
That's a life decision.
SPEAKER_01 (16:53):
There's this principle that I've heard many
times from different people anddifferent ways that they say it,
but it's this choosing to cheatconcept.
And that every season of yourlife, you're going to have to
cheat something.
Meaning you can't be fullyinvested in your education.
You can't be fully invested inyour work.
You can't be fully invested inyour family.
You've got to pick.
People think about balance.
(17:13):
I don't know what balance is.
I haven't had balance in a longtime.
I don't know what that is.
But I do think this principle offiguring out like, hey, for this
six-month period, I'm going topull back on this because I need
to go cheat and spend some timeon that.
And what's interesting is a lotof the executives that you put
out of the program, some peopleI keep up with and still talk
to, ran into one last week,amazing leaders in healthcare
(17:35):
and life sciences.
That's kind of what they did.
They went to their families andsaid, hey, I need to do this.
Can we rework this and make ithappen?
And so I hear you.
And I think if this is somethingthat you want to do, it's an
investment and you have toconsider it that way.
And the encouragement I'd giveis that there are ways to do it
and they're going to bedifficult.
But thinking through that andgetting that right, I think is a
(17:55):
really important decision tomake.
And everybody needs to make thatdecision at some point, once or
twice even in their career.
Thanks for walking through whatthe program is and how to think
through.
I think that's what ourlisteners might get the best
advantage from is thinkingthrough higher education.
No matter where you're at inyour career, career in clinical
research.
We have individuals that areearlier.
We have individuals that havebeen in doing it for 20 plus
years.
They're saying, hey, I'm nowthinking I want to spend some
(18:17):
time here.
And I think it's a reallyhealthy career conversation.
Let's flip to some of the thingsthat are trending because I
actually, maybe for the firsttime in quite some time, I think
education is trending indiscussions.
And the reason it's trending issort of the complexity of what
you said, online education.
(18:39):
YouTube arguably being thebiggest television program there
is.
And now we've got AI.
If I were to watch 10 YouTubevideos and I see an influencer
that was at Ivy League Collegeand they're telling somebody
that basically, college isgreat, you should go get an
advanced degree.
(18:59):
And then literally the nextswipe I do is some influencer
telling me, College is acomplete waste of your money.
You shouldn't spend any time inhigher education.
You should just, you know, Idon't know, go start a business,
go do whatever that is that theytell people.
What do you tell people who havewatched that influencer on
YouTube and really are thinkingthrough and wrestling with that
advice that not doing advanceddegrees and maybe college is on
(19:23):
its way out over time.
What do you tell somebody thatsees that on the interwebs?
SPEAKER_00 (19:28):
I think the first conversation that we have when
we see that sort of thing, andit happens, you're right, all
the time, is that peoplequestion the value of higher
education.
It's certainly gone up in priceand that sort of thing, which
makes that return on investmentcalculation even more difficult.
So I think the first thing Ithink of, and I was talking
about my colleagues I do thiswith, is that are we delivering
(19:51):
value?
Can they walk out of thisprogram and say, wow, it was a
life-changing moment?
Because if we're not deliveringvalue, then there is a problem
with the value equation.
There is a problem with thereturn.
So first and foremost, we'relooking internally going, we've
got to make sure we delivervalue.
And then we take that messagingout and we sort of make it the
proposition for choosing thisprogram is that we're going to
(20:14):
deliver you this value.
And these things are going tohappen.
And then look, look at the folkswho've graduated.
Talk to them.
Look at this faculty.
This faculty are amazing thoughtleaders.
You can't get that packaged upvery easily in 12 months with
that many thought leaders.
So it definitely is a means toan end that's highly effective.
(20:36):
And so that's kind of the way weapproach it is we are committed
to delivering value to you thatwill be impactful to your
career.
These are the ways we do it withthought leaders, with
programming.
with the whole experience andimmersion with other people who
are like you and that they'reworking professionals and
they're trying to build careersin healthcare, but they're
different from you because theyhave different backgrounds.
(20:57):
I think higher education hasdone its own damage to its own
reputation by being happy to putsomething out there, but not
really thinking about, are wedelivering?
So I think higher education hasgotten that message in the last
few years that just because youoffer a degree and someone has
got to earn it, your work's notdone.
They've chosen you, but they'vechosen you and you really are on
(21:20):
the hook to deliver.
SPEAKER_01 (21:21):
YouTube has kind of changed a lot of things, right?
Because one, you've got peoplewho care, who know what they're
talking about who are onYouTube.
And then you've got, as we allknow, and for those of you who
have kids or older kids like me,you have to deal with these
conversations where you're like,okay, listen, this person
doesn't know what they'retalking about.
And they've never actuallyworked in a company in their
whole life when I'm watchingsomething online.
(21:42):
And I think that sometimespeople sort of, they think about
education as information thatgoes into your head, not as a
work process that you go throughto do it.
Right.
the things that I learned, Ilearned by doing them.
And I actually learned more bydoing and failing or messing
something up than I did fromlearning and going, yes, I can
repeat that and doing it.
And so I do think that, yes, itis a trend.
(22:04):
But I'm really hopeful thatpeople are seeing that trend as
a component of education, not asthe replacement of education.
It's the approach
SPEAKER_00 (22:11):
we've taken is to have a little bit of blend.
There is a need to meet peoplewho are working across the
country who would have to maketrips to meet them where they
are a little bit.
But I would not be interested inrunning a complete online
program, even though we didduring COVID.
And we did it for a class and ahalf.
And I think we worked reallyhard to try to enhance
(22:33):
relationship building.
through virtual environments,and it can be done.
But nothing's nearly as good asthe face-to-face.
I expect as much learning andconnection happens between class
and during breaks as it doesduring class.
It's a really important part ofbeing together face-to-face.
SPEAKER_01 (22:53):
And when you think about AI and education, I think
people are making a lot ofassertions about how it's going
to impact education, how it'sgoing to change education.
But can I take a different sideof that coin?
Can you tell me, what are youall thinking about in how to
educate students and how tothink about and use AI and apply
AI or be scared of AI anddifferent elements, like
(23:13):
whatever those aspects are?
So forget the sort of macro viewof how it impacts the program
over time, good or bad, butreally think What are you doing
in the program that's helping toequip students to be in front of
or in advance of the changesthat are actually happening in
AI?
The challenge
SPEAKER_00 (23:32):
is education.
Did you write your paper or didAI write it for you?
So that's kind of the academicside of it.
The reality is we want people touse AI.
not to do their work for them,but as an effective tool.
So we talk a lot about AI.
I expect that all our studentsuse it in one form or another.
Every faculty person has theirguidelines for how it can be
(23:55):
used and in what ways.
But I think particularly theclinical informatics faculty
that make up part of ourcurriculum expect students to
use the technology.
We got into an interestingconversation in the panel the
other night about And this is adownside.
Who's liable when the machine'swrong?
And the physician on the panelsays, well, it's the people who
(24:17):
made the machine.
It's the software.
It's the tool.
It's the AI tool.
The consultant says, well, I'veyet to see contracts that really
put the liability back to that.
You're the user.
You have to be responsible.
So there are things that arecomplex here.
around AI that we talk about astopics in the classroom as part
(24:40):
of our formal education.
How would we deploy AI in waysthat it can be trusted?
SPEAKER_01 (24:46):
One of the other things I just know personally
is, you know, for not beingscared of things, for looking
ahead and saying, hey, this iscoming.
Maybe I don't understand thefull impact of it, but we are
going to be in front of it, notwaiting for it.
When you think about highereducation or the thinking you
get in higher education is thisidea very stoic view of this is
(25:06):
just going to happen.
And the only thing I can controlis me.
So I'm going to apply me to thisthing that's happening and I'm
going to figure it out.
I think it's such an importantconcept and one that you see in
students, right?
That are thinking about highereducation because they're not
scared of what's coming.
Figure out how to use it to makethe change that's really
impactful and important to themto see in clinical research.
SPEAKER_00 (25:30):
But I do think, and I do think though that education
is, is struggling, obviously,like others, with how to use it
in a way that's effective.
Education is being accomplished,not just we learn to do better
prompts, but that we can stillthink critically and all those
other sorts of things.
So we see it as a tool to beengaged, to be used, and to be
(25:50):
managed.
SPEAKER_01 (25:53):
I think part of the educational journey is There's
things that have been going onfor 100 years that you learn
about educationally.
You learn about history becausehistory is so much the indicator
of the future.
But being able to balanceunderstanding that and what's
currently happening is it's thebasis for good education, in my
opinion.
If someone wants to learn moreabout Duke's MMCI program,
(26:13):
what's the best next step?
SPEAKER_00 (26:15):
The best next step is to reach out and let's have a
conversation.
You can do that very easily byjust writing us at
mmci.duke.edu.
That'll get an email right tous.
We'll engage in a conversation.
We would certainly encouragepeople to visit class, and we
would connect folks withstudents or alums to talk to
(26:36):
them about their experience.
But it starts with aconversation.
And what we're really lookingfor is people who really want to
change healthcare, believe thattechnology and data are enablers
and tools to do that, and wantto be part of leading that
effort.
So that's who we're looking for.
SPEAKER_01 (26:51):
And Randy, if someone wants to connect to you
specifically, what's the bestway to reach you?
SPEAKER_00 (26:55):
I'm old school, John.
We're talking about advancedtechnology.
I'll take an email.
r.sears at duke.edu is my email.
I'm on LinkedIn.
I love to connect to folks.
SPEAKER_01 (27:06):
Randy, thanks so much.
Go Duke.
SPEAKER_00 (27:09):
Yeah, go Duke.
John, I know I have a differentcolor blue blood inside, but the
truth of matters, this is anexcellent institution.
And excellence is what thisplace is all about.
I am very fortunate to be partof what goes on in this place.
This is an amazing place.
SPEAKER_01 (27:24):
Randy, they're fortunate to have you.
I appreciate you spending timewith us.
Thanks for helping everyonelistening to Inclusion Cracked
here to learn a little bit moreabout high education, how to
think through it, and how tothink some about these trends
that are going on.
So, Randy, good to see you, andwe'll talk to you again soon.
Thanks so much.
Thank you.
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