March 12, 2025 • 31 mins
In this episode, we tackle the challenging topic of the Sandwich Generation – those caught between raising children and caring for aging parents while managing their own careers and lives. Let’s get into the emotional, financial, and physical toll this can take. We will offer practical advice on how to cope without losing oneself to help you navigate this demanding phase of life.
We will discuss strategies for setting boundaries, asking for help, and maintaining your well-being. Whether in the thick of it or just preparing for what’s ahead, this episode provides relatable experiences and actionable tips to help you find balance and support.
Episode Highlights:
[1:58] - Real-life client stories and the impact of teenage children and ill parents.
[4:29] - Shocking statistics about the time demands on the Sandwich Generation.[6:07] - Emotional and financial burdens of caregiving, even with strained family dynamics.
[8:55] - The pervasive guilt and resentment felt by many caregivers.
[10:55] - Personal experiences and the challenges of asking for help.
[15:25] - The Giving Tree analogy and the dangers of giving too much without receiving support.
[18:30] - The importance of direct communication and setting boundaries.
[20:30] - Healthy coping mechanisms and the importance of self-care.
[30:01] - Recap key strategies and proactive self-care's importance.
Resources:
🔥Get Clear on What You Want in Your Sex Life: Free Download!
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Colette Fehr (00:01):
Laura, welcome back everyone to insights from
the couch. Thanks for listening.
I'm here with Laura, and we'reabout to dig into a big fat,
juicy, difficult topic that somany women are grappling with,
which is being in the sandwichgeneration, when you are
carrying the burden of agingparents raising children, and in
(00:23):
many cases, also working a busynine to five job on top of it.
And we want to try to bring somenormalization insight, and then
also, of course, give you sometools that may help you cope
with this dilemma. But before Iturn it over to you, Laura, I
just have to say, I just want toacknowledge my voice. Because
(00:43):
I'm I'm, I may lose itcompletely. I just went to the
Alanis Morissette concert with afriend from grad school and her
husband in West Palm Beach, andwe had the best time just
joyfully singing and belting itout in the rain, no less, and I
can barely talk.
Laura Bowman (01:06):
Is it an ironic
Colette Fehr (01:07):
if Colette can't talk? That is some deep ironic
shit. Yeah,
Laura Bowman (01:13):
that's some deep ironic shit, right there. Well,
I'm glad it's like, well earnedand fun. I mean, there's not
enough fun in the world, so I'mglad that's how you lost it. But
yeah, this topic is juicy, andif you for those who know, they
know if you're not in thisgender, if you're not in this
place, maybe you're justfearfully awaiting it, right?
(01:35):
But when you're here, it'sreally tough. And I, I currently
have some clients who are inthat place of they've got
teenagers that they're activelyparenting and you know, we we
both know if one thing goeswrong with your kids, if you
have one thing to deal with withyour kids that can suck the
(01:56):
energy out of your wholehousehold, you are
Colette Fehr (01:58):
only as happy as your released happy Hunter
child. But then
Laura Bowman (02:02):
imagine I'm pulling one client into mine
right now who has two childrenin their teens and young adult,
early 20s type stuff, and theyhave real significant stuff
going on, and both of her inlaws are ill and kind of in
steep decline, and she has hermother, who is like also, kind
(02:26):
of in physical and struggleswith mental issues as well, and
she works a nine to five job.
And listening to this, it's ahuge burden. Financially, it's a
huge burden. Emotionally,there's not enough time
something, a ball is alwaysgetting dropped,
Colette Fehr (02:45):
right? And energetically, you know, I'm in
the I'm in the Purgatory,because I'm maybe the rarer
person for today's times who hadchildren fairly young. I mean, I
was 27 and 29 so some peoplemight not consider that young,
but it was young in my cohort ofpeers and my parents, who are in
their mid Well, my dad's in hislate 70s, and I guess my mom's
(03:06):
getting there too. They're inlike, pretty good shape. You
know, I joke with you, my dadhas more energy and does more
stuff before 6am than peoplehalf my age. So but I'm facing
I'm seeing that this is what'scoming down the pike. And I know
I'm lucky my children arealready old enough, but I'm
(03:26):
considering the possibility ofbecoming a caretaker again
sometime soon for both of myparents, who are not married.
And you know that that's a jobin and of itself, and then we've
got all these clients, and Ihave many friends who maybe
teenagers, but also because somany people have children later
(03:49):
in life. Now we have many womenwho have young children, which
is the most demanding stage oflife, even if that's all you're
focused on. And then they alsoare caring for aging parents.
And then, you know, I'm going ona podcast saying 75% of your
energy should go into yourself.
Laura Bowman (04:08):
I know, like, Fuck Yeah.
Unknown (04:10):
Fuck you. Colette, yeah. Walk a Mile, bitch. Yes.
100%
Colette Fehr (04:17):
yes, because I'm in my emptiness, tiny moon, you
know, but so this is and youshared some stats with me when
we were chatting about this. Canyou go through this? Because
this blows my mind. Yeah,
Laura Bowman (04:29):
in prepping for the episode, I read that what
like a person who's in thissandwich grip spends 28 hours
delegating to kids, giving tokids, and about 22 hours giving
to aging parents, and then theyhave a nine to five job, so it's
50 hours of caregivingresponsibilities a week in
(04:51):
addition to nine to five work
Colette Fehr (04:53):
that makes me want to lie down on like a cold floor
and die
Laura Bowman (04:58):
and just weep.
Yeah, that's
Colette Fehr (05:02):
too much for anybody. And yet, if that is
your life, you can't just say,sorry, I'm out. I mean, I mean,
you could, but most peoplewouldn't do that or want to. So
how do you cope with theenormity of that burden on a day
to day basis? Be there forpeople the way you want to, but
also not lose yourself or yourresponsibility to take care of
(05:25):
yourself. I
Laura Bowman (05:26):
mean, I think that's the million dollar
question. I think it'sincredibly hard. And just to
flesh this out even deeper, iswe're assuming that these fight,
these family dynamics, arebrilliant and loving and, you
know, reciprocal and warm, andthey're not. I mean, these are
women very often are in in theseresponsibilities, and they're
(05:48):
caring for parents that haven'tbeen good to them, or they don't
they, yeah, very ambivalenttowards and I mean, that that's
a we're not talking about howhard it is to step into a role
and in a family system where youdon't really want to be doing
this, or they haven't even shownup for you in that way. I
Colette Fehr (06:08):
had a client. I mean, this is huge, and I think
it's another layer that has suchan emotional punch. I had a
client who her father hadabandoned her, and before he
abandoned her. He had abused herand cut her out of the will.
Long story, and of course, Idon't want to share any details.
(06:29):
This is a long time ago, butI'll never forget it, because of
a variety of complex factors,caring for him fell to her. I
mean, you've abandoned me,financially, emotionally, you
abused me, and now I have totake care of you and not slip
you a cyanide pill, right? Imean, sorry, but like the amount
(06:52):
of inner consternation you haveto go through to grapple with
the complexity of emotions thatthis is someone who has hurt you
and harmed you, yet it's yourparent, which we know one of the
most difficult things in life isthat children it's a survival
component that children willalways love a parent, even when
(07:13):
the parent causes harm. But atthe end of life, if you're
tasked with caring for someonewho's hurt you so deeply that's
a whole nother level, yeah, and
Laura Bowman (07:23):
even just the more mundane dynamics of parents that
haven't planned well, haven'tmanaged their finance as well,
have made very poor decisions,and then the consequences of
that are falling to their adultchildren, yes. So I just want to
acknowledge the level ofresentment that here you are now
(07:46):
giving away all of your time andyour energy, and you're doing
it, just saddled with a bunch ofresentment for that's not every
that for some people, somepeople are very happy
caregivers, and it's verymeaningful work for them, but I
just want to shout out to peoplewho feel very ambivalent about
the role they're in.
Colette Fehr (08:06):
I agree, and I think it's important to
acknowledge that. So what we'resaying so far, that I think is
so critical, is that even if youlove your parents and you had
that great life and you arehappy to be there for them, the
natural order of life stages,it's still incredibly flipping
hard, right? And then if youdidn't have a good family
(08:26):
dynamic, it's even harder. Andthen let's acknowledge what I
think we're saying implicitly,very explicitly, that this is
all expensive, and not only isthat tough, if your parents
weren't good to you, let's say,but not everyone has the money
for this. You're, you'reshelling out money for children.
(08:47):
And then what if your parentshaven't planned well? And you're
now, you're now the person who'sstuck in between those two
burdens. Yeah,
Laura Bowman (08:56):
it's untenable.
Yeah, you're and you're the onlyone with a job that's producing
income that could even touchthese situations. Where do you
you know, these are where peopleare faced with decisions like
putting their parents in, youknow, homes that don't feel
right to them and and so this iswhere the guilt comes in. And
the guilt is all consuming,because it's like, where do
(09:18):
these resources go? There's notenough to go around, and there's
not enough of me to go around.
So I see a lot of women who dealwith a tremendous amount of
guilt
Colette Fehr (09:31):
say more to me about the guilt. I think this is
important for us to talk about.
Laura Bowman (09:36):
Well, especially women who want to do it all and
really value caring for theirfamilies. They want to do it
well. And in a situation likethis, as we're just as we're
talking about it, you can feelthat there's not enough to go
around. It's impossible toexecute this week in and week
out and do it well. And soyou're always dealing with a
(09:57):
ball dropping, like, oh, I want.
There for this, or I can'tafford that, and so women very
often absorb that guilt thatthey should be doing more. And
then we were talking is that thepsychology of the woman that
gets kind of because it isusually a sibling in the family
system, and often a daughter whogets it, yeah, who's proximate
(10:20):
to the family that ends uptaking on the lion's share of
the responsibility? You're soright? It's and it you're like,
your brother's 1000 miles away,and he's like, Yeah, you know,
call me if you need something.
Okay,
Colette Fehr (10:35):
my brother's literally 1000s of miles away.
As you say this, I'm thinking,
Unknown (10:41):
JAWS coming forward.
Colette Fehr (10:43):
Here comes. Yeah, yeah. I mean, do you before we
dive more into that and thepsychology of the guilt, and you
know what I always call TheGiving Tree, do you are you
dealing with any of this in yourown life right now, not
Laura Bowman (10:57):
yet. And you know my mother and her husband lived
near us and then moved back homeclose to my brother, and my
brother is not going to be aresource for them. You know,
he's kind of made that clear. Somy mom and her husband are 1000
miles away from me, and I think,you know, sometimes I let the
(11:20):
thought wash over my mind, like,what happens if something
happens to either one of them?
You know, I am the person forthem. I'm 1000 miles away. How
would I How would I navigatethat? I mean, you just start
adding up plane tickets and timeoff work, and none of it feels
easy. I
Colette Fehr (11:43):
agree, and this makes me think of another
component, like problem wise,that we haven't hit on yet,
which is that as parents age,they don't always realize that
they're not in the shape theythink they are, or that they
need help, and it can bedifficult to get parents to
acquiesce to the kind of supportthey need and like, I'll just
(12:03):
share a quick thing thathappened, because I joke about
my dad, but really, I'm amazedby my dad. He'll be 80 in a
year. He's really can't
Laura Bowman (12:11):
believe he's 80.
That's ridiculous to me, right?
I mean,
Colette Fehr (12:14):
he's up at 4am he's traveling, he's giving
talks, he's practicing medicine,he's sharp, he's energetic, but
the the kink in the in the armorthat I see is that my father
doesn't understand that he'sapproaching 80, yeah, and he
still feels very invincible. Anda couple of years ago, it has
(12:36):
taken me. I've lived in Floridafor 28 years. A lot of you know,
I grew up in New York, and mydad has been in New York. My
parents are divorced. I've beentrying to get my dad here for a
long time, because as you age,first of all, I want him here
because we're best friends, andI love being with my dad. But as
you age, you need to be close toa family member who will look
out for you. And I'm thatperson, and I'm happy to be that
(12:58):
person. Okay, my dad has beenamazing to me my whole life. A
couple years ago, he lives northof the city, and has been
commuting into Manhattan. Imean, now he lives here, but
this is in the past. He waspulling out of his driveway in
the winter or going out to thecar in his driveway, and he
lived in a town called MountKisco, that's like, 40 minutes
north of Manhattan, and youwould think you're in, like, the
(13:21):
Canadian woods. It's so isolatedand like, deer everywhere.
Laura Bowman (13:26):
He slipped. Yeah, it's
Colette Fehr (13:28):
pretty but, I mean, it's remote, okay, dark
and remote. He slips on a patchof ice, falls right back on the
back of his head, cracks. Hisskull is bleeding everywhere.
And of course, being a man ofthat generation, instead of like
calling 911 gets in the car witha towel around his head,
(13:49):
concussed, cracked skull, anddrives to the hospital and how
to have his whole head stitchedback up and had really injured
himself and could have died. So,you know, this is the kind of
thing where I'm like, Dad, thissituation isn't gonna work
anymore. And even after that, hewas like, I'm fine. I'm good. I
don't need help. And that'sanother piece of it, is that,
(14:13):
like, I can't get this man tosee he needs to slow down. So I
feel responsible for that.
Laura Bowman (14:19):
This is where, like, having a strong sibling
unit is really important thatyou can talk and kind of
intervene and say, hey andsupport one another. It's when,
and very often it does. It fallsto one person, typically a
woman, who's in it by herself,yep,
Colette Fehr (14:39):
and that's going to be the case most of the time.
It's very
Laura Bowman (14:42):
often the case, and that woman is usually a
caregiver. I'm overgeneralizing, not always, but is
probably has a mindset of, I cando this, or this is my job, and
that's the beginning of aprocess that can be. Very
overwhelming and burdensome,absolutely,
Colette Fehr (15:03):
and we're acknowledging that even if
you're happy to do that job,whether you see yourself as a
caretaker or not, it is a lot ofemotional, logistical energy.
It's easy to develop resentmentif you're not, if you're not
having good boundaries, if thereisn't some energy still going to
you, which can be challenging,and I think we need to talk
(15:25):
about and it always brings meback to the Shel Silverstein
book, The Giving Tree, where, ifyou haven't read it, read it.
It's so powerful. It makes mecry every time I want to, like,
kill that little boy. Don't
Laura Bowman (15:41):
make me cry as a kid, Colette, like when I was
little, I thought, oh, isn'tthat sweet? Like the tree gave
it all for the child that Ididn't get it as a kid, you
didn't get it. The
Colette Fehr (15:51):
tree gave it all for the child.
Laura Bowman (15:53):
When I was little, when I was a kid, I thought, oh,
oh, I guess this is how youknow, you give for those you
love. You give it. You leave itall on the field. There's the
problem, right? Well, it took meyears to go, oh, wait, this is a
really dark book. This is reallydark, and now I have a copy of
it in my office, becausesometimes I gotta hand it to
(16:15):
people. Oh,
Colette Fehr (16:16):
I routinely send the PDF version, which actually
just probably outed myself onsome kind of copyright
infringement, but just forsomeone who hasn't read it in
brief, The Giving Tree is aboutthis boy, this beautiful,
lustrous tree, and this boy thathas a relationship with the
tree, and he goes to the treefor everything throughout his
(16:37):
life, and I don't even rememberwhat he does with it, but he
takes the leaves and thebranches and the apples and
builds a boat. Yes, yes. Andhe's never quite happy, never
quite happy, and he's never donetaking. There's always a new
ask, and the tree gives andgives and gives and doesn't take
(17:01):
anything back or ask foranything in return, except the
boy's love. And see, now I'mgonna, like, make myself cry,
and then at the end, the boygoes to the tree. I don't
remember what his final demandis, but the tree that was once
big and beautiful is down to aone inch stump, and the tree
says it's a stump, and it's noteven a big stump. And the tree
(17:24):
says, I have nothing left togive you. I'm sorry. I would
give it to you if I had it, butI don't exist anymore. And the
boy, instead of saying, Wow,thank you for sacrificing
everything you had for me, theboy's kind of like, fuck you.
Laura Bowman (17:41):
Yeah, well, I think that they both, the tree
is now a stump, and the boy justsits there and is an old man at
that point and realizes he kindof has to do it for himself at
that point, or has to grapplewith his own existential, you
know, dread. But you're right.
It's, it's women do this, andthey will give it all away, and
they will give it all away tillthey are there is nothing left,
(18:04):
right? And if, and this is thesituation where you can give it
all away and not even realizeyou're doing it, because you're
caring for so many people,right, that you just become
invisible. And
Colette Fehr (18:19):
it feels like I have to, right? So it doesn't
feel like a choice, because Ithink a lot of these women will
say, Yeah, great. I don't wantto be a stump. I wish I had some
time and energy for myself.
Yeah, what do I do? I can't offoffshoot any of this. So let's
talk about what can help peoplewith some variables that they
can't control. Let's say you'restuck in this situation and you
don't want to be the stump ofThe Giving Tree, but you also
(18:42):
want to be there for yourfamily. You want to raise your
kids well. You want to take careof your parents, even if they
suck. How? How can you do thiswithout totally losing yourself?
Laura Bowman (18:54):
It's so funny. I just had a client in my office,
and her mother recently hadsurgery, and she has an older
brother that lives up north, andthen she has a brother here, and
she's been doing the majority ofthe caregiving work for her mom,
and she has young kids, and shesaid, I finally called My told
my mother, you have to tell mybrother that he needs to take
(19:17):
you to your doctor's appointmenton Thursday. You have to good
for her, like, I'm not going tothat appointment. I can't go to
that appointment. You have to.
So I think that directcommunication of, if you haven't
learned to ask for what youneed, this is the moment to do
it, and do it very directly andnot kind of like, Hey, I'd
really appreciate if you couldyou just step in or just give
(19:38):
me. No, I need you to go onThursday.
Colette Fehr (19:42):
Yeah, and I think you're right. This is going to
be challenging. If you've neverdone this before, but sink or
swim, you're also savingyourself, and you're going to
have to you are going to have tosay, No, sometimes you are going
to have to ask directly,explicitly and clear. Actually
for what you want and need, andyou may feel guilt or discomfort
(20:06):
when you do that, because of allof the good girl conditioning
we've all been subjected withthroughout our lives, but you
have to do it anyway, or you aregoing to drown in this thing.
Yeah,
Laura Bowman (20:17):
definitely. And and then another piece that
occurs to me is that when you'regoing through difficult times of
any form or fashion, it's a timewhere you have to take even more
impeccably good care ofyourself. Yeah, and we all know
that when you're when you'restressed out, you can slide so
easily into what I call itcrappy coping, which is like,
(20:39):
you know, you start to drinkmore and you just, you start to
eat more, you know, just, you'rejust coping with, like, low
hanging things. Are
Colette Fehr (20:47):
you saying those are bad things? No, I'm kidding.
Laura Bowman (20:49):
I am. I am. I'm saying that when you're in a
really tough spot, you're,you're slowly killing yourself
with those kinds of behavior.
I'm not saying thatjudgmentally. I've been there.
I'm
Colette Fehr (21:00):
joking. I'm joking. I couldn't agree more,
and that's what I have atendency to do. Like I have a
part of self that prefers tocope that way when things get
too much. But I've worked overthe years to develop healthier
mechanisms, and
Laura Bowman (21:13):
it comes with the voice of, like I deserve this.
Like I deserve this, becausethis is too much. And that's
that's that's a real feeling,but it needs to be dealt with
with some and I love when Ilooked this up, one of the tips
that I that I got when I wasresearching was determine your
non negotiable needs. And Ithink that's what every
(21:35):
caregiver has to say. Like, whatdo I need in order to do this
job in a sustainable way like Ididn't get through raising my
kids without running. Runningsaved me raising kids, and
because I it would do somethingthat would release something in
me where I had so much morespace to be able to cope. So if
I were in this in this place inmy life, I'd say, Well, I have
(21:58):
to run three to four times aweek in order to handle this job
and
Colette Fehr (22:03):
right to be able to do it without it really
destroying me. Yeah, yeah. Andwhen you say that, what I think
of for me. I mean, I thinkexercise is key for everyone we
know. Not only is it good foryou physically, but it's so
fundamental to mental health,even a 10 minute raising of the
heart rate, boost mental healthfor six to eight hours of the
(22:25):
day. I mean, you just can't it'sthe best antidepressant in the
world. But along the lines ofwhat you're saying with young
kids, you know, I realized, forme, when I was in the young kid
stage, the hardest part was thatI'm such a Joie de Viv, like
social butterfly kind of girl,and all of a sudden everything
was very responsibility ladenaround the clock. I had to say,
(22:49):
I have to have time with friendsthat does not involve and it
doesn't have to be, you know,there's that whole mommy thing
of, like, going out and gettingshit faced and, like, right,
right as, like, a backlash,yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, I need
time with my friends where weare having soul filled
(23:09):
conversations to fill my cup.
Like, that's what I needed toget through the early kids
stage. And you know, this issomething that I think we're
both saying. It's not anegotiable. It's not selfish.
It's not like, Oh, I can't,because you're going to hear
those kind of distortedcognitions, because the guilty
part of you will want to tellyou that you have to be all
(23:33):
things to all people all thetime. But if you carve out 20
minutes in the day and make it adisciplined, non negotiable
commitment that this is my timeto run, talk to a friend,
journal, write, go out innature. You got to find your
thing that is going to chargeyour engine. It's not going to
(23:53):
make this easy, but it'sessential.
Laura Bowman (24:00):
Yeah, and then I, as you're talking, the other
thing that I see is, andespecially these really capable
women who can throw a wholefamily on their back and march
up the hill, you know, this iswhat these women can do. As I'm
reflecting back to them, like,gosh, this is so much like any
one of these things could beoverwhelming, and they're like,
(24:22):
wow, you know, I just sometimesI feel like I'm coming in here
and just venting and I'mcomplaining, and they have no
grace or space for their ownissues. They don't want to feel
sorry for themselves, they don'twant to acknowledge their own
grief and sadness around what'shappening. And it's important to
go, this is really fucking hard.
I agree. And have other peoplewho will will see that and
(24:47):
reflect that back and go, Yeah,this is hard, and you're doing a
really hard thing, grace
Colette Fehr (24:54):
and space. I love how you said that. Yeah, have
grace for yourself. Give your.
Space to process, allow yourselfto acknowledge that it's really
hard and that that's okay andyour feelings deserve to be
tended to, and that ties to alsothe whole idea of seeking help.
You know you need someone totalk to, and if you can't afford
(25:16):
a therapist, find somebody inyour life that you can go to and
share about this burden, andjust someone who will listen and
validate and understand it'simportant.
Laura Bowman (25:29):
And in this, in this time, you need all kinds of
help. I mean, this is a a timeto be able to reach out to
people and say, Do you knowanybody? Do you? What do you?
What do you? What have you donefor nursing care? What do you do
for financial planning aroundthis and and reach out to
anybody in your resource, youknow your anybody you know your
network that can help? I
Colette Fehr (25:49):
agree. It's, it's we need to talk to other people
about what we're going through,and get resources and ideas and
help and also normalize theseconversations, because so many
women are going through this andfeeling like, oh, this is just
what life is, and I'm doing myduty, and it's a lot,
Laura Bowman (26:10):
yeah, and I want to just give out a shout out to
men, because a lot of men are inthis role too. And I think I was
reading in the research that anever increasing amount of men
are getting put in this role.
And I was running this morningwith a gentleman, and he was
telling me, we were talkingabout marathons we've run and
stuff. And he said, Well, youknow, I stopped running for
three years while I was takingcare of my parents. And I just
(26:33):
thought, this is so interestingthat we're talking about this
today. But yeah, he's just heput himself on the back burner
as his parents were dying, andthat's not uncommon.
Colette Fehr (26:47):
No, it's not, it's not right. We're not suggesting
that women are the only onesdoing this. And also we're not
suggesting that there might notbe times when you really just
have to put yourself on the backburner to push through. I think
what we are suggesting is findlittle ways carve out the little
(27:08):
that you can for yourself andyour soul and whatever is going
to give you just a little bit ofcomfort and grace and
acknowledgement and energy asyou're coping with so much
Laura Bowman (27:21):
because being a stump at the end of the day is
not an option. Yes, amen, nostumping, no
Colette Fehr (27:32):
stumping, no stumping, no. I mean, I get
chills when I read that book andI come to the end, I want to
cry. I want to scream. You'reright. I forgot the boy's an old
man. I really want to kill himat that point because he's still
got his hand out. It's like, Areyou kidding? Yeah, but this
happens to women more thananybody. They feel like a stump,
(27:54):
and then they resent and theycan't understand why nobody saw
them, acknowledged them,appreciated them, gave back. And
these are, in large part, often,the women who are leaving their
marriages after 2030, years.
They're like, Fuck you, I've hadit right. They go have an
affair. They run away. They wantto tell everybody just, I'm
(28:17):
done, right? Or they have a blowup moment where the whole
family's like, what justhappened to mom? Right? Like,
you can only take so much. So ifyou're giving, giving, giving
and getting nothing in return,it's there's going to be some
kind of implosion or explosion.
(28:38):
And what we're suggesting istake care of yourself enough
along the way that it doesn'tget to that point by just to
recap, asking directly for whatyou need, having the boundaries
you can have, being active andusing healthy, not crappy coping
mechanisms like exercising andspending time with friends. Get
(29:03):
help where you can ask otherpeople, ask friends for favors,
ask for resources, ask someoneif you can talk about this, and
will they just listen andvalidate that will really feel a
lot better. And am I missinganything? As I recap here, I
Laura Bowman (29:18):
mean, I think there's a whole bunch of
tactical stuff for people whoare really and they're different
pain points for different peopleso but I think the general big
rocks really come down togetting good at asking for help,
direct communication,boundaries, protecting your non
negotiable needs and and beingokay, not being all things to
(29:40):
all People, and really dealingwith it is not your job to to
serve everybody. And what wasit? Was it Laura Myers, that we
had on that was telling us aboutmenopause, that the caregiving
hormone starts to kind of goaway, and I think that's
something to research, right?
Thank
Unknown (29:57):
God I
Laura Bowman (29:58):
know, because you just get. On, like, you do, you
do it, and you do it, and thenyou're like,
Colette Fehr (30:02):
Oh, yeah. I mean, everybody has a breaking point,
so doing some of thisproactively to the degree that
you can will prevent thebreaking point from causing
spectacular disarray, becauseyou don't need that on top of
everything else. I love that.
And I think this is something,yeah, I've done that a time or
two. I'm done with, I'm donewith that way of handling
(30:25):
things. So maybe this issomething that let's put some of
this down onto, like a littleworksheet for people, and you
can visit insights from thecouch.org, for some of these
points. And some things you cando that may help you. If you're
finding yourself in the sandwichmodality, struggling with
raising kids, taking care ofparents, working a job too much,
(30:48):
too little time. We want to behere as a resource to help and
please as ever, reach out to uswith questions. Our email is
info at insights from thecouch.org. We want to hear from
you. What did you think? What doyou like? What do you hate? What
do you want to hear more of wewant to hear it all. We're so
grateful. What
Laura Bowman (31:08):
are you struggling with? We want to know what
you're struggling with, whereyour pain points are, because if
you're struggling with it, it'spretty likely that somebody else
is too, yeah.
Colette Fehr (31:16):
And it's pretty likely we are too, yeah. Yeah.
So we'll figure it out together.
Let us know what you needsupport with, and thanks so much
for listening. We'll see yousoon. You.
Laura, welcome back everyone to insights from
the couch. Thanks for listening.
I'm here with Laura, and we'reabout to dig into a big fat,
juicy, difficult topic that somany women are grappling with,
which is being in the sandwichgeneration, when you are
carrying the burden of agingparents raising children, and in
(00:23):
many cases, also working a busynine to five job on top of it.
And we want to try to bring somenormalization insight, and then
also, of course, give you sometools that may help you cope
with this dilemma. But before Iturn it over to you, Laura, I
just have to say, I just want toacknowledge my voice. Because
(00:43):
I'm I'm, I may lose itcompletely. I just went to the
Alanis Morissette concert with afriend from grad school and her
husband in West Palm Beach, andwe had the best time just
joyfully singing and belting itout in the rain, no less, and I
can barely talk.
Laura Bowman (01:06):
Is it an ironic
Colette Fehr (01:07):
if Colette can't talk? That is some deep ironic
shit. Yeah,
Laura Bowman (01:13):
that's some deep ironic shit, right there. Well,
I'm glad it's like, well earnedand fun. I mean, there's not
enough fun in the world, so I'mglad that's how you lost it. But
yeah, this topic is juicy, andif you for those who know, they
know if you're not in thisgender, if you're not in this
place, maybe you're justfearfully awaiting it, right?
(01:35):
But when you're here, it'sreally tough. And I, I currently
have some clients who are inthat place of they've got
teenagers that they're activelyparenting and you know, we we
both know if one thing goeswrong with your kids, if you
have one thing to deal with withyour kids that can suck the
(01:56):
energy out of your wholehousehold, you are
Colette Fehr (01:58):
only as happy as your released happy Hunter
child. But then
Laura Bowman (02:02):
imagine I'm pulling one client into mine
right now who has two childrenin their teens and young adult,
early 20s type stuff, and theyhave real significant stuff
going on, and both of her inlaws are ill and kind of in
steep decline, and she has hermother, who is like also, kind
(02:26):
of in physical and struggleswith mental issues as well, and
she works a nine to five job.
And listening to this, it's ahuge burden. Financially, it's a
huge burden. Emotionally,there's not enough time
something, a ball is alwaysgetting dropped,
Colette Fehr (02:45):
right? And energetically, you know, I'm in
the I'm in the Purgatory,because I'm maybe the rarer
person for today's times who hadchildren fairly young. I mean, I
was 27 and 29 so some peoplemight not consider that young,
but it was young in my cohort ofpeers and my parents, who are in
their mid Well, my dad's in hislate 70s, and I guess my mom's
(03:06):
getting there too. They're inlike, pretty good shape. You
know, I joke with you, my dadhas more energy and does more
stuff before 6am than peoplehalf my age. So but I'm facing
I'm seeing that this is what'scoming down the pike. And I know
I'm lucky my children arealready old enough, but I'm
(03:26):
considering the possibility ofbecoming a caretaker again
sometime soon for both of myparents, who are not married.
And you know that that's a jobin and of itself, and then we've
got all these clients, and Ihave many friends who maybe
teenagers, but also because somany people have children later
(03:49):
in life. Now we have many womenwho have young children, which
is the most demanding stage oflife, even if that's all you're
focused on. And then they alsoare caring for aging parents.
And then, you know, I'm going ona podcast saying 75% of your
energy should go into yourself.
Laura Bowman (04:08):
I know, like, Fuck Yeah.
Unknown (04:10):
Fuck you. Colette, yeah. Walk a Mile, bitch. Yes.
100%
Colette Fehr (04:17):
yes, because I'm in my emptiness, tiny moon, you
know, but so this is and youshared some stats with me when
we were chatting about this. Canyou go through this? Because
this blows my mind. Yeah,
Laura Bowman (04:29):
in prepping for the episode, I read that what
like a person who's in thissandwich grip spends 28 hours
delegating to kids, giving tokids, and about 22 hours giving
to aging parents, and then theyhave a nine to five job, so it's
50 hours of caregivingresponsibilities a week in
(04:51):
addition to nine to five work
Colette Fehr (04:53):
that makes me want to lie down on like a cold floor
and die
Laura Bowman (04:58):
and just weep.
Yeah, that's
Colette Fehr (05:02):
too much for anybody. And yet, if that is
your life, you can't just say,sorry, I'm out. I mean, I mean,
you could, but most peoplewouldn't do that or want to. So
how do you cope with theenormity of that burden on a day
to day basis? Be there forpeople the way you want to, but
also not lose yourself or yourresponsibility to take care of
(05:25):
yourself. I
Laura Bowman (05:26):
mean, I think that's the million dollar
question. I think it'sincredibly hard. And just to
flesh this out even deeper, iswe're assuming that these fight,
these family dynamics, arebrilliant and loving and, you
know, reciprocal and warm, andthey're not. I mean, these are
women very often are in in theseresponsibilities, and they're
(05:48):
caring for parents that haven'tbeen good to them, or they don't
they, yeah, very ambivalenttowards and I mean, that that's
a we're not talking about howhard it is to step into a role
and in a family system where youdon't really want to be doing
this, or they haven't even shownup for you in that way. I
Colette Fehr (06:08):
had a client. I mean, this is huge, and I think
it's another layer that has suchan emotional punch. I had a
client who her father hadabandoned her, and before he
abandoned her. He had abused herand cut her out of the will.
Long story, and of course, Idon't want to share any details.
(06:29):
This is a long time ago, butI'll never forget it, because of
a variety of complex factors,caring for him fell to her. I
mean, you've abandoned me,financially, emotionally, you
abused me, and now I have totake care of you and not slip
you a cyanide pill, right? Imean, sorry, but like the amount
(06:52):
of inner consternation you haveto go through to grapple with
the complexity of emotions thatthis is someone who has hurt you
and harmed you, yet it's yourparent, which we know one of the
most difficult things in life isthat children it's a survival
component that children willalways love a parent, even when
(07:13):
the parent causes harm. But atthe end of life, if you're
tasked with caring for someonewho's hurt you so deeply that's
a whole nother level, yeah, and
Laura Bowman (07:23):
even just the more mundane dynamics of parents that
haven't planned well, haven'tmanaged their finance as well,
have made very poor decisions,and then the consequences of
that are falling to their adultchildren, yes. So I just want to
acknowledge the level ofresentment that here you are now
(07:46):
giving away all of your time andyour energy, and you're doing
it, just saddled with a bunch ofresentment for that's not every
that for some people, somepeople are very happy
caregivers, and it's verymeaningful work for them, but I
just want to shout out to peoplewho feel very ambivalent about
the role they're in.
Colette Fehr (08:06):
I agree, and I think it's important to
acknowledge that. So what we'resaying so far, that I think is
so critical, is that even if youlove your parents and you had
that great life and you arehappy to be there for them, the
natural order of life stages,it's still incredibly flipping
hard, right? And then if youdidn't have a good family
(08:26):
dynamic, it's even harder. Andthen let's acknowledge what I
think we're saying implicitly,very explicitly, that this is
all expensive, and not only isthat tough, if your parents
weren't good to you, let's say,but not everyone has the money
for this. You're, you'reshelling out money for children.
(08:47):
And then what if your parentshaven't planned well? And you're
now, you're now the person who'sstuck in between those two
burdens. Yeah,
Laura Bowman (08:56):
it's untenable.
Yeah, you're and you're the onlyone with a job that's producing
income that could even touchthese situations. Where do you
you know, these are where peopleare faced with decisions like
putting their parents in, youknow, homes that don't feel
right to them and and so this iswhere the guilt comes in. And
the guilt is all consuming,because it's like, where do
(09:18):
these resources go? There's notenough to go around, and there's
not enough of me to go around.
So I see a lot of women who dealwith a tremendous amount of
guilt
Colette Fehr (09:31):
say more to me about the guilt. I think this is
important for us to talk about.
Laura Bowman (09:36):
Well, especially women who want to do it all and
really value caring for theirfamilies. They want to do it
well. And in a situation likethis, as we're just as we're
talking about it, you can feelthat there's not enough to go
around. It's impossible toexecute this week in and week
out and do it well. And soyou're always dealing with a
(09:57):
ball dropping, like, oh, I want.
There for this, or I can'tafford that, and so women very
often absorb that guilt thatthey should be doing more. And
then we were talking is that thepsychology of the woman that
gets kind of because it isusually a sibling in the family
system, and often a daughter whogets it, yeah, who's proximate
(10:20):
to the family that ends uptaking on the lion's share of
the responsibility? You're soright? It's and it you're like,
your brother's 1000 miles away,and he's like, Yeah, you know,
call me if you need something.
Okay,
Colette Fehr (10:35):
my brother's literally 1000s of miles away.
As you say this, I'm thinking,
Unknown (10:41):
JAWS coming forward.
Colette Fehr (10:43):
Here comes. Yeah, yeah. I mean, do you before we
dive more into that and thepsychology of the guilt, and you
know what I always call TheGiving Tree, do you are you
dealing with any of this in yourown life right now, not
Laura Bowman (10:57):
yet. And you know my mother and her husband lived
near us and then moved back homeclose to my brother, and my
brother is not going to be aresource for them. You know,
he's kind of made that clear. Somy mom and her husband are 1000
miles away from me, and I think,you know, sometimes I let the
(11:20):
thought wash over my mind, like,what happens if something
happens to either one of them?
You know, I am the person forthem. I'm 1000 miles away. How
would I How would I navigatethat? I mean, you just start
adding up plane tickets and timeoff work, and none of it feels
easy. I
Colette Fehr (11:43):
agree, and this makes me think of another
component, like problem wise,that we haven't hit on yet,
which is that as parents age,they don't always realize that
they're not in the shape theythink they are, or that they
need help, and it can bedifficult to get parents to
acquiesce to the kind of supportthey need and like, I'll just
(12:03):
share a quick thing thathappened, because I joke about
my dad, but really, I'm amazedby my dad. He'll be 80 in a
year. He's really can't
Laura Bowman (12:11):
believe he's 80.
That's ridiculous to me, right?
I mean,
Colette Fehr (12:14):
he's up at 4am he's traveling, he's giving
talks, he's practicing medicine,he's sharp, he's energetic, but
the the kink in the in the armorthat I see is that my father
doesn't understand that he'sapproaching 80, yeah, and he
still feels very invincible. Anda couple of years ago, it has
(12:36):
taken me. I've lived in Floridafor 28 years. A lot of you know,
I grew up in New York, and mydad has been in New York. My
parents are divorced. I've beentrying to get my dad here for a
long time, because as you age,first of all, I want him here
because we're best friends, andI love being with my dad. But as
you age, you need to be close toa family member who will look
out for you. And I'm thatperson, and I'm happy to be that
(12:58):
person. Okay, my dad has beenamazing to me my whole life. A
couple years ago, he lives northof the city, and has been
commuting into Manhattan. Imean, now he lives here, but
this is in the past. He waspulling out of his driveway in
the winter or going out to thecar in his driveway, and he
lived in a town called MountKisco, that's like, 40 minutes
north of Manhattan, and youwould think you're in, like, the
(13:21):
Canadian woods. It's so isolatedand like, deer everywhere.
Laura Bowman (13:26):
He slipped. Yeah, it's
Colette Fehr (13:28):
pretty but, I mean, it's remote, okay, dark
and remote. He slips on a patchof ice, falls right back on the
back of his head, cracks. Hisskull is bleeding everywhere.
And of course, being a man ofthat generation, instead of like
calling 911 gets in the car witha towel around his head,
(13:49):
concussed, cracked skull, anddrives to the hospital and how
to have his whole head stitchedback up and had really injured
himself and could have died. So,you know, this is the kind of
thing where I'm like, Dad, thissituation isn't gonna work
anymore. And even after that, hewas like, I'm fine. I'm good. I
don't need help. And that'sanother piece of it, is that,
(14:13):
like, I can't get this man tosee he needs to slow down. So I
feel responsible for that.
Laura Bowman (14:19):
This is where, like, having a strong sibling
unit is really important thatyou can talk and kind of
intervene and say, hey andsupport one another. It's when,
and very often it does. It fallsto one person, typically a
woman, who's in it by herself,yep,
Colette Fehr (14:39):
and that's going to be the case most of the time.
It's very
Laura Bowman (14:42):
often the case, and that woman is usually a
caregiver. I'm overgeneralizing, not always, but is
probably has a mindset of, I cando this, or this is my job, and
that's the beginning of aprocess that can be. Very
overwhelming and burdensome,absolutely,
Colette Fehr (15:03):
and we're acknowledging that even if
you're happy to do that job,whether you see yourself as a
caretaker or not, it is a lot ofemotional, logistical energy.
It's easy to develop resentmentif you're not, if you're not
having good boundaries, if thereisn't some energy still going to
you, which can be challenging,and I think we need to talk
(15:25):
about and it always brings meback to the Shel Silverstein
book, The Giving Tree, where, ifyou haven't read it, read it.
It's so powerful. It makes mecry every time I want to, like,
kill that little boy. Don't
Laura Bowman (15:41):
make me cry as a kid, Colette, like when I was
little, I thought, oh, isn'tthat sweet? Like the tree gave
it all for the child that Ididn't get it as a kid, you
didn't get it. The
Colette Fehr (15:51):
tree gave it all for the child.
Laura Bowman (15:53):
When I was little, when I was a kid, I thought, oh,
oh, I guess this is how youknow, you give for those you
love. You give it. You leave itall on the field. There's the
problem, right? Well, it took meyears to go, oh, wait, this is a
really dark book. This is reallydark, and now I have a copy of
it in my office, becausesometimes I gotta hand it to
(16:15):
people. Oh,
Colette Fehr (16:16):
I routinely send the PDF version, which actually
just probably outed myself onsome kind of copyright
infringement, but just forsomeone who hasn't read it in
brief, The Giving Tree is aboutthis boy, this beautiful,
lustrous tree, and this boy thathas a relationship with the
tree, and he goes to the treefor everything throughout his
(16:37):
life, and I don't even rememberwhat he does with it, but he
takes the leaves and thebranches and the apples and
builds a boat. Yes, yes. Andhe's never quite happy, never
quite happy, and he's never donetaking. There's always a new
ask, and the tree gives andgives and gives and doesn't take
(17:01):
anything back or ask foranything in return, except the
boy's love. And see, now I'mgonna, like, make myself cry,
and then at the end, the boygoes to the tree. I don't
remember what his final demandis, but the tree that was once
big and beautiful is down to aone inch stump, and the tree
says it's a stump, and it's noteven a big stump. And the tree
(17:24):
says, I have nothing left togive you. I'm sorry. I would
give it to you if I had it, butI don't exist anymore. And the
boy, instead of saying, Wow,thank you for sacrificing
everything you had for me, theboy's kind of like, fuck you.
Laura Bowman (17:41):
Yeah, well, I think that they both, the tree
is now a stump, and the boy justsits there and is an old man at
that point and realizes he kindof has to do it for himself at
that point, or has to grapplewith his own existential, you
know, dread. But you're right.
It's, it's women do this, andthey will give it all away, and
they will give it all away tillthey are there is nothing left,
(18:04):
right? And if, and this is thesituation where you can give it
all away and not even realizeyou're doing it, because you're
caring for so many people,right, that you just become
invisible. And
Colette Fehr (18:19):
it feels like I have to, right? So it doesn't
feel like a choice, because Ithink a lot of these women will
say, Yeah, great. I don't wantto be a stump. I wish I had some
time and energy for myself.
Yeah, what do I do? I can't offoffshoot any of this. So let's
talk about what can help peoplewith some variables that they
can't control. Let's say you'restuck in this situation and you
don't want to be the stump ofThe Giving Tree, but you also
(18:42):
want to be there for yourfamily. You want to raise your
kids well. You want to take careof your parents, even if they
suck. How? How can you do thiswithout totally losing yourself?
Laura Bowman (18:54):
It's so funny. I just had a client in my office,
and her mother recently hadsurgery, and she has an older
brother that lives up north, andthen she has a brother here, and
she's been doing the majority ofthe caregiving work for her mom,
and she has young kids, and shesaid, I finally called My told
my mother, you have to tell mybrother that he needs to take
(19:17):
you to your doctor's appointmenton Thursday. You have to good
for her, like, I'm not going tothat appointment. I can't go to
that appointment. You have to.
So I think that directcommunication of, if you haven't
learned to ask for what youneed, this is the moment to do
it, and do it very directly andnot kind of like, Hey, I'd
really appreciate if you couldyou just step in or just give
(19:38):
me. No, I need you to go onThursday.
Colette Fehr (19:42):
Yeah, and I think you're right. This is going to
be challenging. If you've neverdone this before, but sink or
swim, you're also savingyourself, and you're going to
have to you are going to have tosay, No, sometimes you are going
to have to ask directly,explicitly and clear. Actually
for what you want and need, andyou may feel guilt or discomfort
(20:06):
when you do that, because of allof the good girl conditioning
we've all been subjected withthroughout our lives, but you
have to do it anyway, or you aregoing to drown in this thing.
Yeah,
Laura Bowman (20:17):
definitely. And and then another piece that
occurs to me is that when you'regoing through difficult times of
any form or fashion, it's a timewhere you have to take even more
impeccably good care ofyourself. Yeah, and we all know
that when you're when you'restressed out, you can slide so
easily into what I call itcrappy coping, which is like,
(20:39):
you know, you start to drinkmore and you just, you start to
eat more, you know, just, you'rejust coping with, like, low
hanging things. Are
Colette Fehr (20:47):
you saying those are bad things? No, I'm kidding.
Laura Bowman (20:49):
I am. I am. I'm saying that when you're in a
really tough spot, you're,you're slowly killing yourself
with those kinds of behavior.
I'm not saying thatjudgmentally. I've been there.
I'm
Colette Fehr (21:00):
joking. I'm joking. I couldn't agree more,
and that's what I have atendency to do. Like I have a
part of self that prefers tocope that way when things get
too much. But I've worked overthe years to develop healthier
mechanisms, and
Laura Bowman (21:13):
it comes with the voice of, like I deserve this.
Like I deserve this, becausethis is too much. And that's
that's that's a real feeling,but it needs to be dealt with
with some and I love when Ilooked this up, one of the tips
that I that I got when I wasresearching was determine your
non negotiable needs. And Ithink that's what every
(21:35):
caregiver has to say. Like, whatdo I need in order to do this
job in a sustainable way like Ididn't get through raising my
kids without running. Runningsaved me raising kids, and
because I it would do somethingthat would release something in
me where I had so much morespace to be able to cope. So if
I were in this in this place inmy life, I'd say, Well, I have
(21:58):
to run three to four times aweek in order to handle this job
and
Colette Fehr (22:03):
right to be able to do it without it really
destroying me. Yeah, yeah. Andwhen you say that, what I think
of for me. I mean, I thinkexercise is key for everyone we
know. Not only is it good foryou physically, but it's so
fundamental to mental health,even a 10 minute raising of the
heart rate, boost mental healthfor six to eight hours of the
(22:25):
day. I mean, you just can't it'sthe best antidepressant in the
world. But along the lines ofwhat you're saying with young
kids, you know, I realized, forme, when I was in the young kid
stage, the hardest part was thatI'm such a Joie de Viv, like
social butterfly kind of girl,and all of a sudden everything
was very responsibility ladenaround the clock. I had to say,
(22:49):
I have to have time with friendsthat does not involve and it
doesn't have to be, you know,there's that whole mommy thing
of, like, going out and gettingshit faced and, like, right,
right as, like, a backlash,yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, I need
time with my friends where weare having soul filled
(23:09):
conversations to fill my cup.
Like, that's what I needed toget through the early kids
stage. And you know, this issomething that I think we're
both saying. It's not anegotiable. It's not selfish.
It's not like, Oh, I can't,because you're going to hear
those kind of distortedcognitions, because the guilty
part of you will want to tellyou that you have to be all
(23:33):
things to all people all thetime. But if you carve out 20
minutes in the day and make it adisciplined, non negotiable
commitment that this is my timeto run, talk to a friend,
journal, write, go out innature. You got to find your
thing that is going to chargeyour engine. It's not going to
(23:53):
make this easy, but it'sessential.
Laura Bowman (24:00):
Yeah, and then I, as you're talking, the other
thing that I see is, andespecially these really capable
women who can throw a wholefamily on their back and march
up the hill, you know, this iswhat these women can do. As I'm
reflecting back to them, like,gosh, this is so much like any
one of these things could beoverwhelming, and they're like,
(24:22):
wow, you know, I just sometimesI feel like I'm coming in here
and just venting and I'mcomplaining, and they have no
grace or space for their ownissues. They don't want to feel
sorry for themselves, they don'twant to acknowledge their own
grief and sadness around what'shappening. And it's important to
go, this is really fucking hard.
I agree. And have other peoplewho will will see that and
(24:47):
reflect that back and go, Yeah,this is hard, and you're doing a
really hard thing, grace
Colette Fehr (24:54):
and space. I love how you said that. Yeah, have
grace for yourself. Give your.
Space to process, allow yourselfto acknowledge that it's really
hard and that that's okay andyour feelings deserve to be
tended to, and that ties to alsothe whole idea of seeking help.
You know you need someone totalk to, and if you can't afford
(25:16):
a therapist, find somebody inyour life that you can go to and
share about this burden, andjust someone who will listen and
validate and understand it'simportant.
Laura Bowman (25:29):
And in this, in this time, you need all kinds of
help. I mean, this is a a timeto be able to reach out to
people and say, Do you knowanybody? Do you? What do you?
What do you? What have you donefor nursing care? What do you do
for financial planning aroundthis and and reach out to
anybody in your resource, youknow your anybody you know your
network that can help? I
Colette Fehr (25:49):
agree. It's, it's we need to talk to other people
about what we're going through,and get resources and ideas and
help and also normalize theseconversations, because so many
women are going through this andfeeling like, oh, this is just
what life is, and I'm doing myduty, and it's a lot,
Laura Bowman (26:10):
yeah, and I want to just give out a shout out to
men, because a lot of men are inthis role too. And I think I was
reading in the research that anever increasing amount of men
are getting put in this role.
And I was running this morningwith a gentleman, and he was
telling me, we were talkingabout marathons we've run and
stuff. And he said, Well, youknow, I stopped running for
three years while I was takingcare of my parents. And I just
(26:33):
thought, this is so interestingthat we're talking about this
today. But yeah, he's just heput himself on the back burner
as his parents were dying, andthat's not uncommon.
Colette Fehr (26:47):
No, it's not, it's not right. We're not suggesting
that women are the only onesdoing this. And also we're not
suggesting that there might notbe times when you really just
have to put yourself on the backburner to push through. I think
what we are suggesting is findlittle ways carve out the little
(27:08):
that you can for yourself andyour soul and whatever is going
to give you just a little bit ofcomfort and grace and
acknowledgement and energy asyou're coping with so much
Laura Bowman (27:21):
because being a stump at the end of the day is
not an option. Yes, amen, nostumping, no
Colette Fehr (27:32):
stumping, no stumping, no. I mean, I get
chills when I read that book andI come to the end, I want to
cry. I want to scream. You'reright. I forgot the boy's an old
man. I really want to kill himat that point because he's still
got his hand out. It's like, Areyou kidding? Yeah, but this
happens to women more thananybody. They feel like a stump,
(27:54):
and then they resent and theycan't understand why nobody saw
them, acknowledged them,appreciated them, gave back. And
these are, in large part, often,the women who are leaving their
marriages after 2030, years.
They're like, Fuck you, I've hadit right. They go have an
affair. They run away. They wantto tell everybody just, I'm
(28:17):
done, right? Or they have a blowup moment where the whole
family's like, what justhappened to mom? Right? Like,
you can only take so much. So ifyou're giving, giving, giving
and getting nothing in return,it's there's going to be some
kind of implosion or explosion.
(28:38):
And what we're suggesting istake care of yourself enough
along the way that it doesn'tget to that point by just to
recap, asking directly for whatyou need, having the boundaries
you can have, being active andusing healthy, not crappy coping
mechanisms like exercising andspending time with friends. Get
(29:03):
help where you can ask otherpeople, ask friends for favors,
ask for resources, ask someoneif you can talk about this, and
will they just listen andvalidate that will really feel a
lot better. And am I missinganything? As I recap here, I
Laura Bowman (29:18):
mean, I think there's a whole bunch of
tactical stuff for people whoare really and they're different
pain points for different peopleso but I think the general big
rocks really come down togetting good at asking for help,
direct communication,boundaries, protecting your non
negotiable needs and and beingokay, not being all things to
(29:40):
all People, and really dealingwith it is not your job to to
serve everybody. And what wasit? Was it Laura Myers, that we
had on that was telling us aboutmenopause, that the caregiving
hormone starts to kind of goaway, and I think that's
something to research, right?
Thank
Unknown (29:57):
God I
Laura Bowman (29:58):
know, because you just get. On, like, you do, you
do it, and you do it, and thenyou're like,
Colette Fehr (30:02):
Oh, yeah. I mean, everybody has a breaking point,
so doing some of thisproactively to the degree that
you can will prevent thebreaking point from causing
spectacular disarray, becauseyou don't need that on top of
everything else. I love that.
And I think this is something,yeah, I've done that a time or
two. I'm done with, I'm donewith that way of handling
(30:25):
things. So maybe this issomething that let's put some of
this down onto, like a littleworksheet for people, and you
can visit insights from thecouch.org, for some of these
points. And some things you cando that may help you. If you're
finding yourself in the sandwichmodality, struggling with
raising kids, taking care ofparents, working a job too much,
(30:48):
too little time. We want to behere as a resource to help and
please as ever, reach out to uswith questions. Our email is
info at insights from thecouch.org. We want to hear from
you. What did you think? What doyou like? What do you hate? What
do you want to hear more of wewant to hear it all. We're so
grateful. What
Laura Bowman (31:08):
are you struggling with? We want to know what
you're struggling with, whereyour pain points are, because if
you're struggling with it, it'spretty likely that somebody else
is too, yeah.
Colette Fehr (31:16):
And it's pretty likely we are too, yeah. Yeah.
So we'll figure it out together.
Let us know what you needsupport with, and thanks so much
for listening. We'll see yousoon. You.
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