In this episode of Insights from the Couch, we’re joined by Dr. Kelly Kessler, a physical therapist and transformation coach, who’s on a mission to help high-achieving women break free from self-abandonment and stress. Kelly shares her own journey of moving from a life of chronic self-sacrifice to one of self-honor and balance, offering strategies that can help you find your way back to yourself. She talks about nervous system regulation, the power of breath work, and why setting boundaries is essential to reclaiming your well-being.
Together, we uncover why it’s crucial for women to prioritize their emotional and physical health, even in the midst of busy, driven lives. From techniques like the physiological sigh to embracing your inner critic with compassion, Dr. Kessler’s approach is both gentle and transformative. Tune in for practical tips, grounding insights, and actionable steps to start putting yourself first.
Episode Highlights:
[0:00] – Welcome and introduction to Dr. Kelly Kessler’s background and mission.[1:14] – Kelly shares her journey from self-abandonment to self-care and transformation.
[4:33] – Defining self-abandonment and how it impacts high-functioning women.[6:51] – Recognizing patterns of perfectionism and external validation in personal and professional lives.
[9:48] – Breathwork as a gateway to slowing down and self-connection.
[12:33] – Starting small: how breathwork and gentle exercise initiated Kelly’s healing journey.
[15:39] – Introducing the “physiological sigh” breath technique and its calming effects.
[20:30] – Exploring the connection between body, mind, and anxiety management.
[23:38] – Taming the inner critic and cultivating self-compassion through daily practices.
[27:46] – The role of boundaries in self-care and why they’re essential for personal peace.
[34:08] – The grief of setting boundaries and the empowerment it brings.
[38:27] – Final takeaways: honoring yourself as a non-negotiable priority.
Resources:
- Dr. Kelly Kessler’s Website – Optimal You Health and Wellness – Find resources, coaching, and programs for personal transformation.
- Free Guide: Eight Daily Practices for Self-Loyalty and Nervous System Harmony – Available on her website.
- Follow Dr. Kelly on Instagram: @drkellykessler
- 🔥Get Clear on What You Want in Your Sex Life: Free Download!
For more on this topic visit our website insightsfromthecouch.org If you have questions please email us at info@insightsfromthecouch.org we would love to hear from you!
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Laura Bowman (00:02):
Kelly, welcome back everybody for another
episode of insights from thecouch. We have Dr Kelly Kessler
with us. Dr Kelly Kessler is alicensed physical therapist,
transformation coach, host ofthe globally ranked podcast,
rewiring health, the owner ofoptimal you, Health and Wellness
(00:23):
LLC, a mom of two boys, Kellyhelps high achieving women
recognize and heal fromdysfunctional patterns of
abandoning themselves andfeeling unrelenting stress
through nervous systemregulation and subconscious mind
reprogramming. Kelly guides herclients through a personal
transformation to step intotheir own power, reclaim their
(00:47):
worth and honor their health andinner peace. Kelly has been
featured in authority magazine,daily ALM that every girl and
thrive global. Welcome Kelly. Weare so excited to talk to you,
because we have a lot of clientsthat need just this kind of
help, high functioning womenwith unrelenting stress. So just
(01:09):
start by telling us, like, whatbrought you to this work and
your own journey with us?
Dr. Kelly Kessler (01:14):
Yeah, absolutely. Well, thank you so
much for having you on here. I'mI'm so honored to talk about
this, because it's been apersonal journey of mine that
brought me to this. So I didn'teven recognize that throughout
my entire life, I had beenabandoning myself, and that is
just the pattern that I justbecame accustomed to, and it
became this place of safety forme, and I didn't realize it
(01:35):
until I started healing myself,and much of it was that
achievement. I was constantlyseeking out something to feel
like I was enough. You know thatthat constant theme in my life
is like I'm not enough, so Ihave to figure out something
that's going to make me feellike I'm enough. And in my 20s,
it was an eating disorder that Iwent through where I was trying
to form my body to feel like Iwas enough, and then it was
(01:58):
going after the next degree tofeel like, okay, once I have
this, then I'll finally feellike I'm enough and never
actually, ever filled my cup. Itjust led me to the next big
thing and constantly trying toachieve. And through all that, I
was just sacrificing everythingwithin myself. I wasn't feeling
joy. I was just pushing myself,working all the time, never
(02:22):
honoring my own needs, thinkingthat like the more I push, then
I'll finally get to this pointwhere everything will settle
down and life will be okay. Andit never got to that. And I
think we all have been therewhere we're just like, okay, one
day this will all be worth it,and things will be okay, and
I'll settle down, I'll feel likeeverything I did was worth it,
and I was just constantlypushing myself to feel that it
(02:42):
really just came to a head aboutfive, six years ago, when I was
working full time, driving anhour each way. I was pregnant
with my first son, my husband, Iwere building our house, and we
were the general contractor forthe house, so we were
coordinating everything. I wasliving in my parents house. We
had three dogs. I mean, it wasjust like a complete chaotic
(03:02):
time in my life. I was justholding it all together. So on
the outside you'd be like, okay,she's got it. She got under
control. She's taking care ofeverything. But inside, I was
struggling so much. I was nothelping myself in any way. I was
just coming down to myself more,like, what else is gonna go
wrong? Why? Why I feel likethis? Like, you know, why am I
in this position, like verymuch, that victim mentality I
(03:25):
had at that time, I just wasstruggling to keep everything
together, but I had thatpressure from the outside that I
had to keep it together, and itreally just came to have when it
was actually the pandemic hit, Igot furloughed. My husband got
furloughed. We had just moved inour house. My son was nine
months old at that time, and I'mlooking at him, and I'm like, I
know I've been physically here,but I have not been here
(03:47):
mentally or emotionally. And I'mlike, I don't want to live like
this anymore. You know? I'mlike, I looked back in my life,
and I'm like, I lived like thisfor probably about two decades,
if not more, and I don't want tosacrifice these moments. I don't
want to live like this. And Ihad no idea how I was going to
get out of that, but I just knewat that point I refused to live
like this anymore, and so thatbecame my pivotal point where I
(04:09):
start to just seek outsomething, out some other way to
live, some other way to takecare of myself.
Colette Fehr (04:14):
Thank you for sharing all of that with us,
too. Kelly, so this is like apivotal turning point for you,
where you just said no more, andmaybe for the listeners, can you
just flesh out the way youdefine abandoning yourself or
self? Self abandonment?
Dr. Kelly Kessler (04:33):
Yeah, absolutely so again, I didn't
have this clarity then, but Ican look back now and realize
that I was silencing myself forother people's needs, so I would
just not say what I actuallyfelt, because it was more
important for me to make suretheir needs were taken care of
their emotional needs. Everyonewas okay. I'm a very empathic
person, so I if everybody'sokay, then I feel like I'm okay,
(04:57):
and that's how I kind of livedmost of my life. Yeah, I did it
through perfectionism, thinkingthat like, when everything is
perfect, then I'll be okay. Andso I was constantly holding
myself to the standard and thencritiquing myself and
criticizing myself when I didn'tmeet that standard. I went for
years without actually evertaking care of myself when I
would work out. I just push mybody. Just keep pushing. It's a
(05:18):
nice but I never actually, everrest. I would never actually
like, honor how I felt if I wastired, I would just be like,
Okay, now I need to do more.
This is ridiculous. Why am Itired? And I would just continue
to push and push and push andpush other ways I did it to
would be self doubt like so Iwould question myself, question
my own internal instincts. ThenI would think that other people
knew what was best for me, andso I'd be seeking out validation
(05:41):
outside myself, constantlythinking that other people have
the answers and what's right forme, and meanwhile, completely
ignoring those like little pingswithin myself, be like, no, no,
no, this is the path. And sothose are just some ways that I
was showing up regularly, but Ididn't even realize that,
because this was my norm. Thisis what I knew. And I felt like
this is how doesn't everybody gothrough life like this? Yeah, I
Laura Bowman (06:05):
was, I was just telling Colette before we
started recording, like, I workwith a lot of type A women as
well. I mean, these are thewomen that do come to therapy
because they are they suffer.
They really, really suffer. Andit seems to me this, like, fine
blend of, like, the trait ofconscientiousness, agreeableness
and neuroticism, that form areally tight knot in people's
(06:25):
lives, and they're so productiveon one end, so they get all the
rewards from culture tellingthem, oh, look at you. Go,
you're holding you know, you'reso steady. But they just can't
rest, and they can't enjoythemselves, and they just do not
find pleasure in the process oflife, which is really sad. So
just tell us, like, how do youbegin to confront this? Looking
(06:48):
back, it
Dr. Kelly Kessler (06:51):
was just like a step wise process. I just
would take the next breadcrumb,so I just would allow whatever
kind of came to me to come tome. So it just first started. I
actually was just watchingNetflix, and I watched this
documentary called heal, and itwas talking about the connection
between the mind and the body.
And at that time, when I wasgoing through that, I had
chronic back pain for probablyabout five or six years at that
(07:12):
time. And so I'm in my like,heal 30s, early 30s, then
dealing with chronic back pain.
So I was like, talking about,you know, I had done all the
modalities. I'm a physicaltherapist. I know the body, you
know, but it was talking abouthow the emotions impact the
body. And I'm like, there wasjust something that felt like
truth to me. And I'm like, Oh mygosh, maybe this is what I've
(07:33):
been missing. And so I tookthat, and I'm like, okay, and
for me, being the high achiever,I'm like, I'm gonna learn
everything I can about this. SoI dove in. Started doing some
yoga practices, some deepbreathing breathing practices.
Just kept taking thebreadcrumbs. I started reading.
I would always read textbooksfor school, but never did
reading for myself. So I startedjust reading whatever books I
(07:53):
could find. I started listeningto the shift network. Got
resources from there, and justlike went in full force with
everything that you know, that'swhat I knew. It's just like,
okay, just learn as much as youcan. And really that became the
catalyst of like, okay, I'munderstanding myself more. And
it was really starting tounderstand that, like, through
everything, I had never takencare of my emotional needs. I
had never honored my emotions.
And it was, it was actually kindof amazing, because through that
(08:17):
process, as I started torecognize myself and validate
myself and show myself some morelove and slow down a little bit
for the first time in my life,which felt so uncomfortable at
that time, but my back painactually started to diminish.
And you know, I speak to you,no, I have no back pain. I
haven't had back pain in a longtime. So there, there is a truth
to that, that our emotionsimpact our bodies. And so as I
(08:39):
started to see these results inmy life, I started to feel a
little bit lighter. I started tofeel a little bit better, how,
just a little bit more clarityin my life. It was like almost
became addictive. I'm like, Thisis it? I'm on the right path.
I'm just gonna keep taking thebreadcrumbs. And so it led me to
one thing after another. Istarted my business at that
time, when I was furloughed, mybrother had helped me with that,
(09:00):
and the business became acatalyst for healing. Because
I'm like, well, now here I am.
I'm going to learn everything Ican create this business. I
actually hired a business coach.
And part of that businesscoaching was this wellness part
to it, where you had to do anhour of activity, or showing up
for yourself in some way, for anhour journaling. There's a lot
of components to that. So nowI'm investing money in this, and
then for the first time, I'mlike, well, if I'm gonna do
(09:23):
this, I do everything full out.
So it actually became this,like, this gift to myself,
because I'm like, it's the firsttime I put myself as a non
negotiable that, like, I'm gonnado this business full out, I
have to dedicate this time. Andinstead of saying I'll do when I
have time, it became like, No,this is what needs to get done
every day. And so that totallyshifted the way I viewed myself
(09:45):
and taken care of myself, and ithasn't changed since then.
Colette Fehr (09:49):
So you're saying some really powerful, important
things that I think so manywomen are high achieving and
driven and even. Conditioned bysociety to perfectionism. You
know, our society reallycolludes with this whole thing
that we already have inside ofourselves. And you're giving
(10:10):
great pieces for how you shiftedthat I think will really help
listeners, like honoring yourown emotions, tuning into all of
that and really allowingyourself to feel because we know
those emotions point to us toour needs. So then that sets the
stage for not continuing todisown your needs and service of
(10:31):
everybody else, and reallynoticing what's going on in your
body, because those emotions domanifest that way, particularly
if we ignore them, they'regonna, like, knock on the door
louder, and it sounds likegiving yourself the time and
space to focus on you with theseactivities, like journaling,
(10:52):
yoga, breathing, spending timewith yourself, and like, really
giving yourself validation andself compassion, which is the
antidote to all of that innercritic, gurk, as I like to call
it, and it's transformative,right? Like you feel it sounds
like it was a positive feedbackloop that was self rewarding
(11:15):
100%
Dr. Kelly Kessler (11:16):
I share this with people because I sort of
see myself differently. And ifyou view yourself almost as like
a bank account. And you continuethe deposit into the bank
account over and over and overagain, you become less tolerant
of people who are going towithdraw from it. And that's
what started happening, is that,like every single day, I was
showing up for myself, so I hadless tolerance for the person
who was going to drain me, forthe person who wanted to talk
(11:37):
negatively or complain or try totake time away from my day, I
became better at saying, No,it's starting to set those
boundaries. And boundaries werenever a thing in my life before.
Then, as I started looking atmyself at Bank, I'm like, I have
invested every single day theamount of time I put into
myself, over and over again, tochange the way I'm feeling, the
way change the way I'm behaving.
I am not going to continue downwith these patterns of allowing
(11:58):
people to take away from that.
It's been a catalyst for me toreally just anchor into myself
again.
Laura Bowman (12:03):
I love that metaphor of the bank account. I
mean, that's something I'mtelling women all the time, is
like, you've got to startredirecting. And we say this all
the time, redirecting energyback towards yourself. And was
that the first thing was thatthe beginning slowing down. What
piece was the easiest for you tostart to shift because I'm
listening. I'm hearing my ownclients in my head going like,
(12:26):
where do I start? I feel like Ican't rest. I can't slow down.
What was the easiest shift tobegin to make? Slowing
Dr. Kelly Kessler (12:34):
down was definitely not the easiest for
me. That was the mostuncomfortable.
Unknown (12:39):
I still don't want to do that. Yeah, reject, hard,
Dr. Kelly Kessler (12:45):
yes. And I think that's what it is, because
I think that actually becomeslike a point of resistance where
people be like, Oh, just slowdown and quiet your mind. And
I'm like, How do you do that?
Like, when you're so on hyperdrive, it's so hard. So yeah,
like, actually a big piece ofthat was like giving myself
grace and realizing that, like,it's not going to happen
overnight, that I actually haveto train this. So that was
actually part of that that'sallowed me to, like, actually do
(13:07):
meditation where I feel like I'mbenefiting from it. I try
meditation on how many times,and I just feel like it doesn't
work for me. I'm just gonnathink negatively, and now I
understand it. So yeah, slowingdown was not the not the
starting piece. It was showingup differently. So, um, like,
taking the habits that you do,it's not just having that void,
because slowing down almost feltlike a void. Like I can't just
(13:28):
sit here. I have to dosomething. So how can I replace
my current habits with thingsactually serve me? So for me,
like it was, you know, just oneexample would be, like, working
out. I would be like, going downgym, working out hard more and
more and more, and here I amjust putting myself more in a
stress response in my body. Soinstead, I started just doing
some slower movements, so usingmy body differently. And that
(13:49):
became a catalyst of just tuninginto myself so it didn't feel
like a void of like I'm notgoing to do exercise, or just
I'm going to sit here. I startedto replace it with that breath
work was actually probably goingback to that question. The first
thing was really probably breathwork, now that I'm thinking of
it, is tuning into my breathbecause that was such a huge
gateway for me to really justallow myself to slow down and
(14:11):
calm down and and tune intomyself for the first time,
instead of tuning outside ofmyself. So that was a huge
gateway, and that's something,again, that I don't have to
think about it now. Like I justautomatically, if I'm feeling
stressed, it's like my bodyknows okay. Like, take the take
some of those deep breaths, likephysiological sigh. Like, you
know, I have all these practicesthat are built in. And it was
(14:32):
really my body that allowed mymind to open up. So once I allow
my body to slow down, to feelsafe in a moment, to show up in
the world a little bitdifferently. Then I felt more
receptive to changing the way mymind was processing things,
instead of like trying to forceit, like, you know, I was. I
tended to be a very negativethinker, so I would think
(14:54):
negatively about myselfeverything else, like I said in
that years ago, I. Be like, Whyis everything happening to me?
So I recognize that I had thislike victim mentality, and so
allowing my body to show updifferently, then gave my mind
an ability to start to seethings differently, and then
that became a step wise processof changing the way I was
(15:15):
showing up internally.
Colette Fehr (15:18):
Oh, that makes sense, and I'm so glad you said
that so in terms of breath work,because it is so powerful, a
mindfulness practice is great.
But can you share some of whatyou like? Maybe a kind of breath
exercise for the listener thatis really helpful for calming
down that stress response.
Dr. Kelly Kessler (15:39):
One thing that I do, like I have a hard
time falling asleep, is thephysiological side. Yeah, what
is that? I don't even know whatthat is. So you breathe in
through your nose for a count ofsix. So when you fully inhale,
you're gonna take another littlesip through your nose, hold it
for four seconds, and thenexhale for eight. And you can
(16:01):
exhale through your mouth oryour nose.
Colette Fehr (16:03):
I've never done it quite that way, you know. And we
as therapists have had umpteenbreath work trainings and, you
know, box breathing and like, infor four, out for eight, but
I've never done it like that. Soit's in through the nose for
six, then you take anotherlittle, animal sip, then you
hold for four, and then youexhale, either through the nose
(16:26):
or mouth for eight. Yeah, I feellike opening invigoration,
actually, like, like a littlealmost like I drink something
effervescent, and it's yes,like, in a good way, not like
Diet Coke, like something.
Laura Bowman (16:43):
What do you use that in response for? Like, how
do you implement that throughoutthe day?
Dr. Kelly Kessler (16:47):
If I recognize in myself that, like,
something stressful happened, orI'm like, getting to a place
where I'm like, starting goingto a rumination cycle, I'll
actually do that just to kind ofrecenter myself and just shift
my nervous system. Because it'sthat nervous system that goes
from a sympathetic it just helpsit shift into that
parasympathetic response whereyou can show up a little bit
more clarity. So I'll do it whenI notice that I'm having more of
(17:09):
a stress response. I may bestarting to get into some of
those old patterns to help shiftmy system into more of a place
of calm and harmony. But I alsodo it like before bed. So if I
that was always a big thing,like with sleeping was always
challenging for me. But if I'mhaving a time when I'm, like,
really struggling to fallasleep, I'll do that. So do a
(17:29):
few physiological sighs. And Ilike notice that it's like I can
just, like, get to sleep easierby doing that. So that's been,
like, my go to practice anytimeI'm feeling like my system is
getting a little bit more ofthat stress response. I go back
to that.
Colette Fehr (17:45):
Yeah, so it's a great way to regulate your
nervous system, and I'm glad youtalked about rumination, because
I think a lot of us and a lot ofour listeners will really relate
to that. We are juggling so manythings as women, there are
plates spinning in the air,we're responsible for so much.
And so it's really easy to getinto these thinking loops that
(18:09):
are just ruminatory and reallyamp up the stress in your body.
And sometimes we're so pulledinto our thoughts, it can be
challenging to even noticethat's what's happening. So I
love the idea of this as just asyou increase your self awareness
of what you're thinking, whatyou're telling yourself,
noticing when you're stuck in aloop, and just using this, did
(18:30):
you call it physiological sigh,or physiological breath?
Physiological sigh? Okay, yeah.
So using this is just a way tointerrupt and shift gears a
little and come back to thatregulated state. You know, it's
that from like polyvagal theory.
It's that green zone when you'reopen, you're grounded, you're
(18:54):
curious, you're able to reallythink and feel from your adult
self and move through the worldengaged and present. You're
neither shut down nor superactivated, and that's really
what allows us to enjoy lifemost, make the best decisions
and take good care of ourselves.
So it's a great tool. Thanks forsharing that. Yeah, absolutely.
Dr. Kelly Kessler (19:18):
Yeah, yeah.
And
Laura Bowman (19:19):
what people like don't realize, and this is what
in anxiety work, especiallybecause I do a lot of it, is
that anxiety lives in the body,mostly like, when people are
really just uncomfortable withanxiety, they're like, I've got
a pit in my stomach. I've gottension. I can't get rid of this
feeling like a squirrel iscrawling around in my body and
(19:41):
and the thoughts are sometimes,like, secondary to that body
piece and that actually goingtowards the body with, like,
this kind of a tool, and I'msure others, is the way you
begin to make some space. Yeah,is that been your experience?
Too
Dr. Kelly Kessler (19:58):
100% and it.
It's funny, because being aphysical therapist, like the
body is my like comfort zone,like, I know the body, but like,
anything else was, like, kind offoreign. So being able to use my
body and understand my body, andit really has been that gateway
to be like, okay, like, I feeldifferent, this is working, and
then it allowed me to go intosome of those other tools and
explore different options. Butyeah, 100% the body has been
(20:19):
such a huge catalyst for me tobe able to use and really just
show up differently, and then beable to be more receptive to
other things.
Colette Fehr (20:30):
Yeah, that's the ticket. That's the it's all in
the body. I mean, anxiety is analarm state in the body, and the
thoughts are kind of like thetop of the cone. But by tuning
in and noticing that as like,oh, this tells me that I must be
getting stressed or anxious. Andnow let me really tune into
(20:51):
myself more deeply, rather thantrying to resolve these problems
that seem like the thing, let mereally connect inside and
breathe and bring myself back toa different state, and then
people feel so empowered, right?
Like what you're describing. Itfeels so good once you learn how
to do these things that yourhigh functioning anxiety doesn't
have to define or run you. And Iwas sharing with Laura before we
(21:16):
hopped on with you. You know,I'm a very kind of type A person
in a lot of ways, and I like tobe busy, and I like to do a lot,
and I like to go, go, go. Butone of the things that has been
pivotal for me that you'rereally describing is just I also
take really good care of myself,and I don't operate out of a
(21:38):
place of an inner critic. Ofcourse, we all have that voice
inside because the brain iswired to run negative, and if
we're not overriding it withintentional positive thoughts
and messages, that's what we'regoing to do. But I've learned to
not beat myself up, to givemyself validation and compassion
and to give myself rest andreally recognize just as I like
(22:00):
to go hard, it's also okay tospend a day in my pajamas and do
nothing. I take a lot ofvacations. I spend a lot of time
with friends. So you know thosethings, you can still be who you
are, but by taking care ofyourself, well, it can feel so
different, and it sounds to melike that's what you're
(22:21):
describing. You have not had alobotomy and become a different
person. Thank God. No. ThankGod. Those days are over, but
you're also like, move throughlife and be yourself with just
so much more grace for yourselfand honoring of yourself, and
it's really a beautiful thing.
Dr. Kelly Kessler (22:42):
Yes, I completely agree. I for myself,
I don't think I've necessarilychanged my core. I've just
uncovered who I really am. I'vereleased a lot of the things
that were hiding my true self,and that's been the most
beautiful thing. And it's not tosay that I don't get into these
really dark places, or havethese really hard moments, or go
through some really challengingthings and struggle with that,
(23:03):
but I don't stay there quite aslong, and I don't go quite as
deep as I used to, and that'sthe beauty of it. And I feel so
much more empowered to bringmyself out of that faster and
understand it and be curiousabout it, rather than just kind
of stop be stuck in that andfeel like this is what, who I
am. Oh, that's
Colette Fehr (23:20):
so beautiful.
Thank you for saying that. Andmaybe we could ask you a little
bit about what you use and whatworks for you with your clients
and yourself for the thoughtpart of it, right, and the inner
critic part, like, what's beenhelpful for you in dealing with
the inner critic,
Dr. Kelly Kessler (23:38):
a big part what I help people within myself
is just understanding where thisis coming from, and not
necessarily that we need to knowthe exact time when these
messages came from, butunderstanding that we have these
beliefs that are literallyrunning everything in our lives,
and we will seek out evidence tomake them true. And that has a
huge that's been a huge cows inmy life that I realized that,
(24:01):
like, Okay, I have the power tochange these beliefs and and
also our people that I workwith. Like, you have that power
to change the meaning. You can'tgo back 20 years and change the
event, but you can change themeaning that you give it. And
that's the most empowering thingthat we can do, and realize
that, like, how can we look atthat and see how life was
actually working for us, notagainst us, and making that
(24:22):
shift, so giving a differentmeaning, different perspectives,
going back to maybe some ofthose moments that we've talked
about over and over and overagain, like, how can we shift
the perspective that we have inthat give it a different meaning
that actually serves us? Sothat's been a big callous in
that, and also understanding ourvalues. So anchoring into what
is your value? How do you wantto show up in life? What is
meaningful to you? Where do youwant to invest your time and
(24:45):
energy without outsideinfluences just you? What does
that look like, really? Justgetting to know yourself again.
And then another part of that isunderstanding my past version of
myself, so the child version ofmyself, and what are. Some of
those moments that I maybe feltunsupported. So for me,
recognizing part of my healingwas understanding like I had not
(25:07):
a lot of emotional validationthroughout my life, and that has
been a huge awareness in me, andunderstanding like I didn't feel
emotionally validated orunderstood or so I was always
seeking out that validation andexternal to myself. So now I
recognize like I have tovalidate myself. I have to
validate my experience, and goback to the eight year old
(25:28):
version of myself that was maybegoing through something, and
validate her experience too, andlove her and really just honor
what she was going through,because I'm gonna carry that
through the rest of my life. Idon't honor her and understand
maybe what were some of thosethings that I wanted from
somebody or I needed to feel orhave those experiences, I also
(25:48):
go to my future self and parentmyself through my future self,
and maybe I look at my like 56year old self and be like, what
would that version of myselfTell me now? And how would they
parent me through thisexperience that I'm going
through right now. So I verymuch use the past and the
present to help me through whereI am and how I see life as I am
right now.
Colette Fehr (26:08):
Wow, thank you for sharing that. I know so many
people are gonna relate tohearing you say that you didn't
get a lot of emotionalvalidation in childhood. I think
that has been the experience forso many and really learning to
give it to yourself and howpowerful that can be. Yeah,
Laura Bowman (26:28):
and I love the past and future toggling back
and forth to really get, likewise inner guidance from
yourself. We certainly do a lotof the past stuff, but the
future, like the 80 year oldlooking back, you know, what do
they want for you? What wouldthey be proud of? What's their
wise next step for you? That's areally cool tool. Even as a
(26:49):
therapist, like, I spend a lotof time talking to myself,
saying things to myself, like,I'm the kind of person who you
know, and you're always talkingto yourself about who you are
and who you aren't, and it's soeasy to get blended with these,
like, very rigid roles, like,I'm not the kind of person who
(27:10):
does X or Y, and so it's like,really challenging that and
looking at those automaticthings you say about yourself
and beginning to undo it,because we're not that fixed
ever.
Colette Fehr (27:23):
Yeah, yeah. And, you know, Kelly, you mentioned
before boundaries, this is likea perfect segue into boundaries.
And I don't know, you know ifyou can share a little bit about
how you conceptualize boundariesand how you've implemented them
in your life, because this issomething we're all always
working on, especially as women,because society really doesn't
(27:45):
want us to have any
Unknown (27:47):
100% because society benefits are from us not having
them. So what does that looklike for
Colette Fehr (27:52):
you? And have you had to declare some big
boundaries that were reallydifficult? I'm sure.
Dr. Kelly Kessler (27:57):
Yeah. I mean, this has been an evolutionary
process for me, and it willcontinue to be, I can say, a few
years ago, I had no idea whatboundaries were. Had none. I've
had to establish, especiallywithin this last few years,
very, very strong boundarieswith some people who were very
close to me. I got to a pointwhere, like, I literally, if I
didn't, I would be selfabandoning and really losing
myself in the process. Andbecause of how much I've worked
(28:21):
on myself. I was no longerwilling to accept some of the
behaviors and things that weregoing on. It's challenging. So I
think when one of the things ofboundaries, the way I look at
it, and what's helped me setthem, is that I don't look at it
as a wall and blocking peopleout of my life. I look at it as
an invitation. So you're welcometo come into my life, but here
are the standards in which Ichoose to live. Here are my
(28:42):
values, and as long as you cansupport those values and not
take away from them, you arewelcome to be in my life and be
part of it. But if the minuteyou start to detract from those
values or started to drain me,then I'm sorry, like you can't
cross that bridge into my lifeanymore. And so that's how I
view it, that like I'm invitingpeople along this journey, but
(29:02):
I'm not going to say the personI was 234, years ago, or or
beyond that, like I'm evolving,and I'm always going to be
growing, and you're welcome tocome on that growth journey, but
you have your own responsibilityto do that along the way, and so
it has been challenging.
Boundaries have been one ofthose things that is given me so
much strength within myself torealize that, like, I can take
(29:24):
care of myself, and this hasbeen a big part of me, like
giving myself permission, oflike, it's okay, like, that's
where the inner child came from,like, I got you, I'm gonna
protect you, I'm gonna take careof you, because I felt the pull
of like, just, just appeasethem, take care of them, make
sure they're okay, let them backin. You know, you feel that
pull, and I have to constantlycome back to myself, yeah, but I
(29:45):
got me now. I didn't have me formy whole life, but I've got me
now. And so that's where thishas come in, and like, just that
ultimate love for myself, thatlike I am worthy of living a
life with peace, I'm worthy ofliving. Having a life where
growth and autonomy is part ofmy life, and I'm worthy of that
now, and I'm not willing tosacrifice that anymore. I'm not
(30:07):
willing to tolerate things thatdetract from that. And so
boundaries have been one ofthose, like really life saving
pieces in my life, but also oneof those really, really
challenging pieces in my life,because I've had relationships
dissolve and be removed from mylife that were very, very
meaningful throughout my wholelife, and that's become very
(30:27):
severed. I don't look at that inregret, because I gave them that
choice, and that was theirchoice, and I chose me, and I
chose to live my life with lovefor myself, and I will never
regret that. What I would regretis living my life, maybe when
I'm 6070, looking back and belike I chose everybody except
for me. And so that's how Ichoose my live my life today. I
Laura Bowman (30:50):
love that. Boom,
Colette Fehr (30:52):
that's it, right?
You choose you, and the onlything you would really regret is
looking back on a lifetime ofabandoning yourself, and I love
how you're framing boundaries asan invitation. It's not a wall
be in my life. I want you in mylife, but if you can't honor my
boundaries that are self lovingfor me, that are what I really
(31:15):
need to be, okay, then that'syour choice. If you want to
engage with me, you stand steadyin what you need, and then
people are either going to,like, honor that, or they're
not, and they really determinewhether or not they're going to
be in your life. Then there
Laura Bowman (31:34):
will be some necessary losses along the way.
And this is why people continueto not, you know, to abandon
themselves is because, like,risking connection with people
you want to have in your life,even though they're not, like,
great for you, is somethingpeople routinely do. But it's
worth it, even though it's hard.
Of
Colette Fehr (31:55):
course, it's hard.
I mean, you're right, and Kelly,you're saying that right. You
had to, like, maybe lose somerelationships that were really
close,
Dr. Kelly Kessler (32:04):
I did, and I want to say part of that is
grief. I mean, I go throughgrief every single day. I work
through that emotion of griefbecause of that. And so you can
have both. You can love yourselfand grieve at the same time. And
that's been in my experience of,like, I, I'm experiencing a lot
of grief this year, especially.
I've had a lot of losses in mylife because of relationships,
(32:26):
and so it's been a lot of griefto go through that. And so, you
know, it's not, I never want todownplay the complexity and the
difficulty of that, thechallenges that come along with
that. And you know, every dayit's going to be a little bit
different, because sometimesthose relationships, depending
on how they either stammer forgood or they kind of try to come
back in, you have to reestablishthose boundaries. It's grief
(32:49):
every time. Because I'm not onlygrieving what I thought that
relationship would be and myfuture of that relationship, but
I also have to grieve the pastversion of myself, that version
of myself is no longer here. SoI have to grieve that that
version is is gone. And youknow, there's a lot of
excitement and joy that there'sa new version of myself, but
(33:11):
there's parts of me that fitthat mold, and parts of me that
fit that life with people thatis different now. And so there's
a lot of grief in this process,that there's a lot of
empowerment and boundaries,there's a lot of self love with
boundaries, but boundaries alsocome with a significant amount
of grief, and I think we alsohave to be very aware of that
when we're setting theseboundaries, to anticipate that
we're going to have toexperience some grief in that as
(33:33):
well. Yeah, thanks
Laura Bowman (33:36):
for saying that, because that's the truth.
Colette Fehr (33:38):
It's easy to hold up a banner and be like we all
need boundaries, and we know weneed them. But then when it
comes to you lose connectionssometimes with people that
either you feel like you'rerequired to have a connection
with, which makes it difficult,or just people that also provide
some value that you love andcare about. It's really hard to
(33:58):
choose yourself on a daily basiswhen it comes to jeopardizing or
potentially sacrificingrelationship and connection, but
it's worth it absolutely
Dr. Kelly Kessler (34:08):
100% I mean, as much grief as I experience
every day, I still choose thisevery day, because
Colette Fehr (34:13):
honoring yourself once you get through the hard
part, feels better than havingregret or continuing to self
abandon throughout life, becausethat's how people end up,
resentful, sick, right? Thisstuff manifests in the body,
living in a perpetual stressresponse, being dysregulated and
feeling like this therapist,Liz, I know who's amazing. She
(34:37):
always talks about it ashooking, like being hooked on
someone else's speed boat,right? And you just get this
great image of, like, they'rejetting around and you're just
flailing and, like, gettingdunked in the water and half
drowning, and then you're up andyou're breathing, and then
you're under.
Dr. Kelly Kessler (34:53):
It's such a good image. So true. Yes, yes.
Unknown (34:57):
Who wants to live like that?
Dr. Kelly Kessler (34:59):
It's. You have to show up for yourself
every single day, validate yourown emotions, validate your
experience, love yourself,realize you're worthy of it.
It's like that inner work youhave to do every day, because if
you don't it can very much, youcan easily get into some of
those old patterns. And just, Ithink the big thing with
boundaries, and I just want tosay this too, is like, as far as
framing is like, boundaries isabout loving yourself. It's not
(35:22):
about punishing somebody else.
And I want to make that veryclear, because it's not about
saying, oh, and I'm gonna, I'mgonna cut you out of my life,
and then maybe you'll change.
That's manipulation, if you'retrying to get somebody to
change, because your boundaries,that's not about it's about you
preserving yourself, youprotecting yourself, you
installing that sense of safetywithin yourself, and that's
that's really the intentionbehind a boundary, and
Laura Bowman (35:44):
then it clears the path I'm imagining ideally, that
like the people who really canbe there for you and be like,
join that invitation and comeand walk your path, kind of flow
into your life. You've madespace, and you're aware for the
people who can actually be therewith you. Yes,
Dr. Kelly Kessler (36:02):
you're so right. I mean, I would say with
the loss, I have gained somegreat connections this last
year, and people that I feellike it's just, it's like, on a
soul level, you just very muchconnect with that person. And so
there is loss of somerelationships that there's also
been gains of it. So you can seethat that evolution of like you
have to kind of shed some ofthose things that were your past
(36:23):
self to make space for the newversion of yourself.
Colette Fehr (36:26):
This has been a fantastic conversation that I
think is really going to helpour listeners. And can you tell
everyone where they can findyou, how they can connect with
you or work with you, so you canfind
Dr. Kelly Kessler (36:39):
me on all socials under Dr, dr Kelly
Kessler, or at my website,optimal, uyou, Health and
wellness.com,
Colette Fehr (36:46):
wonderful and anything else that you want to
promote or or plug for ourlisteners, too. I
Dr. Kelly Kessler (36:53):
do have a guide. It's eight daily
practices, and it's really forharnessing that self loyalty and
nervous system harmony. So it'sjust eight simple things you can
do within a few minutes each dayjust to show up for yourself and
start to really connect withyourself. Oh, I love that. Yeah,
it's on my on my website, soit'll pop right up if you go on
my website, label like that.
We're under any my links onsocial media, you can find that
as well, great.
Colette Fehr (37:15):
And we're going to put your links in the show
notes, so you guys can alsocheck that for our listeners,
and I think it would beextremely valuable to have that
guide, so I'm gonna check thatout too. And it's really cool to
hear the perspective of somebodywho's so immersed in working
with the body and how you wereable to use that knowledge to
(37:38):
begin a journey. And this issomething still that we can all
do right, that like you canshift slowly. It's just being
intentional and deciding thatyou're gonna choose yourself
absolutely.
Dr. Kelly Kessler (37:52):
And even if it is a slow, you know, journey,
you feel the differences eachday. So it becomes this like
catalyst to keep you movingforward that momentum. So, you
know, don't get discouraged. Ifyou feel like, oh, I have to do
all this time you like you wantto, you start to want to show up
for yourself. It becomes thatlike Boulder, that maybe it's
slow at first, but then you getthis momentum. You're like,
(38:13):
there's no stopping me now, hereI
Colette Fehr (38:15):
go. So true and so beautiful. So a couple quick
takeaways before we let you go.
You know, what do you want toleave our listeners with as kind
of the final nuggets, becauseyou've said so many great
things. Yeah, I
Dr. Kelly Kessler (38:27):
think just leave me with a quote. It's one
of my favorite quotes that'sresonate on me, but it's from
Albert Einstein, and it says, Noproblem can be solved from the
same level of consciousness thatcreated it. So if you want your
life to look different, you haveto become different within
yourself. Oh, I
Laura Bowman (38:41):
just got goosebumps. I
Colette Fehr (38:42):
love I did too. I did too. Yeah, that is the body
saying yes, yes, right? All ofour bodies are,
Unknown (38:53):
let's help. Oh,
Colette Fehr (38:56):
my God, I love that so much. Thank you. Kelly,
I have never even heard thatquote, but I'm gonna put that
somewhere that I can see it.
It's powerful. My favorite, yes,yeah, oh my gosh. Thank you so
much for being here. This hasbeen wonderful. Everybody.
Please check Kelly out. This isthere's so much valuable
information, and people can workwith you too, right? You do
transformational coaching, or,yep,
Unknown (39:19):
do one on one coaching.
I
Dr. Kelly Kessler (39:20):
have courses, and then I'm starting community
next year.
Laura Bowman (39:23):
Yeah, this is so needed. So many women have
autoimmune and all kinds ofissues with pulling anxiety into
the body. So this is, like,super helpful in serving a lot
of people.
Dr. Kelly Kessler (39:35):
Thank you both so much. I truly enjoyed
this conversation. I'm sograteful for you having me on
today.
Colette Fehr (39:39):
Thank you and everyone. If you liked what you
heard today, and we hope youdid, please share with your
friends, leave us a five starreview, reach out to us with
questions. We want to hear fromyou, and check out Kelly online.
Everything's in the show notes,and we'll see you next time.
Bye,
Unknown (39:57):
guys, you.
Kelly, welcome back everybody for another
episode of insights from thecouch. We have Dr Kelly Kessler
with us. Dr Kelly Kessler is alicensed physical therapist,
transformation coach, host ofthe globally ranked podcast,
rewiring health, the owner ofoptimal you, Health and Wellness
(00:23):
LLC, a mom of two boys, Kellyhelps high achieving women
recognize and heal fromdysfunctional patterns of
abandoning themselves andfeeling unrelenting stress
through nervous systemregulation and subconscious mind
reprogramming. Kelly guides herclients through a personal
transformation to step intotheir own power, reclaim their
(00:47):
worth and honor their health andinner peace. Kelly has been
featured in authority magazine,daily ALM that every girl and
thrive global. Welcome Kelly. Weare so excited to talk to you,
because we have a lot of clientsthat need just this kind of
help, high functioning womenwith unrelenting stress. So just
(01:09):
start by telling us, like, whatbrought you to this work and
your own journey with us?
Dr. Kelly Kessler (01:14):
Yeah, absolutely. Well, thank you so
much for having you on here. I'mI'm so honored to talk about
this, because it's been apersonal journey of mine that
brought me to this. So I didn'teven recognize that throughout
my entire life, I had beenabandoning myself, and that is
just the pattern that I justbecame accustomed to, and it
became this place of safety forme, and I didn't realize it
(01:35):
until I started healing myself,and much of it was that
achievement. I was constantlyseeking out something to feel
like I was enough. You know thatthat constant theme in my life
is like I'm not enough, so Ihave to figure out something
that's going to make me feellike I'm enough. And in my 20s,
it was an eating disorder that Iwent through where I was trying
to form my body to feel like Iwas enough, and then it was
(01:58):
going after the next degree tofeel like, okay, once I have
this, then I'll finally feellike I'm enough and never
actually, ever filled my cup. Itjust led me to the next big
thing and constantly trying toachieve. And through all that, I
was just sacrificing everythingwithin myself. I wasn't feeling
joy. I was just pushing myself,working all the time, never
(02:22):
honoring my own needs, thinkingthat like the more I push, then
I'll finally get to this pointwhere everything will settle
down and life will be okay. Andit never got to that. And I
think we all have been therewhere we're just like, okay, one
day this will all be worth it,and things will be okay, and
I'll settle down, I'll feel likeeverything I did was worth it,
and I was just constantlypushing myself to feel that it
(02:42):
really just came to a head aboutfive, six years ago, when I was
working full time, driving anhour each way. I was pregnant
with my first son, my husband, Iwere building our house, and we
were the general contractor forthe house, so we were
coordinating everything. I wasliving in my parents house. We
had three dogs. I mean, it wasjust like a complete chaotic
(03:02):
time in my life. I was justholding it all together. So on
the outside you'd be like, okay,she's got it. She got under
control. She's taking care ofeverything. But inside, I was
struggling so much. I was nothelping myself in any way. I was
just coming down to myself more,like, what else is gonna go
wrong? Why? Why I feel likethis? Like, you know, why am I
in this position, like verymuch, that victim mentality I
(03:25):
had at that time, I just wasstruggling to keep everything
together, but I had thatpressure from the outside that I
had to keep it together, and itreally just came to have when it
was actually the pandemic hit, Igot furloughed. My husband got
furloughed. We had just moved inour house. My son was nine
months old at that time, and I'mlooking at him, and I'm like, I
know I've been physically here,but I have not been here
(03:47):
mentally or emotionally. And I'mlike, I don't want to live like
this anymore. You know? I'mlike, I looked back in my life,
and I'm like, I lived like thisfor probably about two decades,
if not more, and I don't want tosacrifice these moments. I don't
want to live like this. And Ihad no idea how I was going to
get out of that, but I just knewat that point I refused to live
like this anymore, and so thatbecame my pivotal point where I
(04:09):
start to just seek outsomething, out some other way to
live, some other way to takecare of myself.
Colette Fehr (04:14):
Thank you for sharing all of that with us,
too. Kelly, so this is like apivotal turning point for you,
where you just said no more, andmaybe for the listeners, can you
just flesh out the way youdefine abandoning yourself or
self? Self abandonment?
Dr. Kelly Kessler (04:33):
Yeah, absolutely so again, I didn't
have this clarity then, but Ican look back now and realize
that I was silencing myself forother people's needs, so I would
just not say what I actuallyfelt, because it was more
important for me to make suretheir needs were taken care of
their emotional needs. Everyonewas okay. I'm a very empathic
person, so I if everybody'sokay, then I feel like I'm okay,
(04:57):
and that's how I kind of livedmost of my life. Yeah, I did it
through perfectionism, thinkingthat like, when everything is
perfect, then I'll be okay. Andso I was constantly holding
myself to the standard and thencritiquing myself and
criticizing myself when I didn'tmeet that standard. I went for
years without actually evertaking care of myself when I
would work out. I just push mybody. Just keep pushing. It's a
(05:18):
nice but I never actually, everrest. I would never actually
like, honor how I felt if I wastired, I would just be like,
Okay, now I need to do more.
This is ridiculous. Why am Itired? And I would just continue
to push and push and push andpush other ways I did it to
would be self doubt like so Iwould question myself, question
my own internal instincts. ThenI would think that other people
knew what was best for me, andso I'd be seeking out validation
(05:41):
outside myself, constantlythinking that other people have
the answers and what's right forme, and meanwhile, completely
ignoring those like little pingswithin myself, be like, no, no,
no, this is the path. And sothose are just some ways that I
was showing up regularly, but Ididn't even realize that,
because this was my norm. Thisis what I knew. And I felt like
this is how doesn't everybody gothrough life like this? Yeah, I
Laura Bowman (06:05):
was, I was just telling Colette before we
started recording, like, I workwith a lot of type A women as
well. I mean, these are thewomen that do come to therapy
because they are they suffer.
They really, really suffer. Andit seems to me this, like, fine
blend of, like, the trait ofconscientiousness, agreeableness
and neuroticism, that form areally tight knot in people's
(06:25):
lives, and they're so productiveon one end, so they get all the
rewards from culture tellingthem, oh, look at you. Go,
you're holding you know, you'reso steady. But they just can't
rest, and they can't enjoythemselves, and they just do not
find pleasure in the process oflife, which is really sad. So
just tell us, like, how do youbegin to confront this? Looking
(06:48):
back, it
Dr. Kelly Kessler (06:51):
was just like a step wise process. I just
would take the next breadcrumb,so I just would allow whatever
kind of came to me to come tome. So it just first started. I
actually was just watchingNetflix, and I watched this
documentary called heal, and itwas talking about the connection
between the mind and the body.
And at that time, when I wasgoing through that, I had
chronic back pain for probablyabout five or six years at that
(07:12):
time. And so I'm in my like,heal 30s, early 30s, then
dealing with chronic back pain.
So I was like, talking about,you know, I had done all the
modalities. I'm a physicaltherapist. I know the body, you
know, but it was talking abouthow the emotions impact the
body. And I'm like, there wasjust something that felt like
truth to me. And I'm like, Oh mygosh, maybe this is what I've
(07:33):
been missing. And so I tookthat, and I'm like, okay, and
for me, being the high achiever,I'm like, I'm gonna learn
everything I can about this. SoI dove in. Started doing some
yoga practices, some deepbreathing breathing practices.
Just kept taking thebreadcrumbs. I started reading.
I would always read textbooksfor school, but never did
reading for myself. So I startedjust reading whatever books I
(07:53):
could find. I started listeningto the shift network. Got
resources from there, and justlike went in full force with
everything that you know, that'swhat I knew. It's just like,
okay, just learn as much as youcan. And really that became the
catalyst of like, okay, I'munderstanding myself more. And
it was really starting tounderstand that, like, through
everything, I had never takencare of my emotional needs. I
had never honored my emotions.
And it was, it was actually kindof amazing, because through that
(08:17):
process, as I started torecognize myself and validate
myself and show myself some morelove and slow down a little bit
for the first time in my life,which felt so uncomfortable at
that time, but my back painactually started to diminish.
And you know, I speak to you,no, I have no back pain. I
haven't had back pain in a longtime. So there, there is a truth
to that, that our emotionsimpact our bodies. And so as I
(08:39):
started to see these results inmy life, I started to feel a
little bit lighter. I started tofeel a little bit better, how,
just a little bit more clarityin my life. It was like almost
became addictive. I'm like, Thisis it? I'm on the right path.
I'm just gonna keep taking thebreadcrumbs. And so it led me to
one thing after another. Istarted my business at that
time, when I was furloughed, mybrother had helped me with that,
(09:00):
and the business became acatalyst for healing. Because
I'm like, well, now here I am.
I'm going to learn everything Ican create this business. I
actually hired a business coach.
And part of that businesscoaching was this wellness part
to it, where you had to do anhour of activity, or showing up
for yourself in some way, for anhour journaling. There's a lot
of components to that. So nowI'm investing money in this, and
then for the first time, I'mlike, well, if I'm gonna do
(09:23):
this, I do everything full out.
So it actually became this,like, this gift to myself,
because I'm like, it's the firsttime I put myself as a non
negotiable that, like, I'm gonnado this business full out, I
have to dedicate this time. Andinstead of saying I'll do when I
have time, it became like, No,this is what needs to get done
every day. And so that totallyshifted the way I viewed myself
(09:45):
and taken care of myself, and ithasn't changed since then.
Colette Fehr (09:49):
So you're saying some really powerful, important
things that I think so manywomen are high achieving and
driven and even. Conditioned bysociety to perfectionism. You
know, our society reallycolludes with this whole thing
that we already have inside ofourselves. And you're giving
(10:10):
great pieces for how you shiftedthat I think will really help
listeners, like honoring yourown emotions, tuning into all of
that and really allowingyourself to feel because we know
those emotions point to us toour needs. So then that sets the
stage for not continuing todisown your needs and service of
(10:31):
everybody else, and reallynoticing what's going on in your
body, because those emotions domanifest that way, particularly
if we ignore them, they'regonna, like, knock on the door
louder, and it sounds likegiving yourself the time and
space to focus on you with theseactivities, like journaling,
(10:52):
yoga, breathing, spending timewith yourself, and like, really
giving yourself validation andself compassion, which is the
antidote to all of that innercritic, gurk, as I like to call
it, and it's transformative,right? Like you feel it sounds
like it was a positive feedbackloop that was self rewarding
(11:15):
100%
Dr. Kelly Kessler (11:16):
I share this with people because I sort of
see myself differently. And ifyou view yourself almost as like
a bank account. And you continuethe deposit into the bank
account over and over and overagain, you become less tolerant
of people who are going towithdraw from it. And that's
what started happening, is that,like every single day, I was
showing up for myself, so I hadless tolerance for the person
who was going to drain me, forthe person who wanted to talk
(11:37):
negatively or complain or try totake time away from my day, I
became better at saying, No,it's starting to set those
boundaries. And boundaries werenever a thing in my life before.
Then, as I started looking atmyself at Bank, I'm like, I have
invested every single day theamount of time I put into
myself, over and over again, tochange the way I'm feeling, the
way change the way I'm behaving.
I am not going to continue downwith these patterns of allowing
(11:58):
people to take away from that.
It's been a catalyst for me toreally just anchor into myself
again.
Laura Bowman (12:03):
I love that metaphor of the bank account. I
mean, that's something I'mtelling women all the time, is
like, you've got to startredirecting. And we say this all
the time, redirecting energyback towards yourself. And was
that the first thing was thatthe beginning slowing down. What
piece was the easiest for you tostart to shift because I'm
listening. I'm hearing my ownclients in my head going like,
(12:26):
where do I start? I feel like Ican't rest. I can't slow down.
What was the easiest shift tobegin to make? Slowing
Dr. Kelly Kessler (12:34):
down was definitely not the easiest for
me. That was the mostuncomfortable.
Unknown (12:39):
I still don't want to do that. Yeah, reject, hard,
Dr. Kelly Kessler (12:45):
yes. And I think that's what it is, because
I think that actually becomeslike a point of resistance where
people be like, Oh, just slowdown and quiet your mind. And
I'm like, How do you do that?
Like, when you're so on hyperdrive, it's so hard. So yeah,
like, actually a big piece ofthat was like giving myself
grace and realizing that, like,it's not going to happen
overnight, that I actually haveto train this. So that was
actually part of that that'sallowed me to, like, actually do
(13:07):
meditation where I feel like I'mbenefiting from it. I try
meditation on how many times,and I just feel like it doesn't
work for me. I'm just gonnathink negatively, and now I
understand it. So yeah, slowingdown was not the not the
starting piece. It was showingup differently. So, um, like,
taking the habits that you do,it's not just having that void,
because slowing down almost feltlike a void. Like I can't just
(13:28):
sit here. I have to dosomething. So how can I replace
my current habits with thingsactually serve me? So for me,
like it was, you know, just oneexample would be, like, working
out. I would be like, going downgym, working out hard more and
more and more, and here I amjust putting myself more in a
stress response in my body. Soinstead, I started just doing
some slower movements, so usingmy body differently. And that
(13:49):
became a catalyst of just tuninginto myself so it didn't feel
like a void of like I'm notgoing to do exercise, or just
I'm going to sit here. I startedto replace it with that breath
work was actually probably goingback to that question. The first
thing was really probably breathwork, now that I'm thinking of
it, is tuning into my breathbecause that was such a huge
gateway for me to really justallow myself to slow down and
(14:11):
calm down and and tune intomyself for the first time,
instead of tuning outside ofmyself. So that was a huge
gateway, and that's something,again, that I don't have to
think about it now. Like I justautomatically, if I'm feeling
stressed, it's like my bodyknows okay. Like, take the take
some of those deep breaths, likephysiological sigh. Like, you
know, I have all these practicesthat are built in. And it was
(14:32):
really my body that allowed mymind to open up. So once I allow
my body to slow down, to feelsafe in a moment, to show up in
the world a little bitdifferently. Then I felt more
receptive to changing the way mymind was processing things,
instead of like trying to forceit, like, you know, I was. I
tended to be a very negativethinker, so I would think
(14:54):
negatively about myselfeverything else, like I said in
that years ago, I. Be like, Whyis everything happening to me?
So I recognize that I had thislike victim mentality, and so
allowing my body to show updifferently, then gave my mind
an ability to start to seethings differently, and then
that became a step wise processof changing the way I was
(15:15):
showing up internally.
Colette Fehr (15:18):
Oh, that makes sense, and I'm so glad you said
that so in terms of breath work,because it is so powerful, a
mindfulness practice is great.
But can you share some of whatyou like? Maybe a kind of breath
exercise for the listener thatis really helpful for calming
down that stress response.
Dr. Kelly Kessler (15:39):
One thing that I do, like I have a hard
time falling asleep, is thephysiological side. Yeah, what
is that? I don't even know whatthat is. So you breathe in
through your nose for a count ofsix. So when you fully inhale,
you're gonna take another littlesip through your nose, hold it
for four seconds, and thenexhale for eight. And you can
(16:01):
exhale through your mouth oryour nose.
Colette Fehr (16:03):
I've never done it quite that way, you know. And we
as therapists have had umpteenbreath work trainings and, you
know, box breathing and like, infor four, out for eight, but
I've never done it like that. Soit's in through the nose for
six, then you take anotherlittle, animal sip, then you
hold for four, and then youexhale, either through the nose
(16:26):
or mouth for eight. Yeah, I feellike opening invigoration,
actually, like, like a littlealmost like I drink something
effervescent, and it's yes,like, in a good way, not like
Diet Coke, like something.
Laura Bowman (16:43):
What do you use that in response for? Like, how
do you implement that throughoutthe day?
Dr. Kelly Kessler (16:47):
If I recognize in myself that, like,
something stressful happened, orI'm like, getting to a place
where I'm like, starting goingto a rumination cycle, I'll
actually do that just to kind ofrecenter myself and just shift
my nervous system. Because it'sthat nervous system that goes
from a sympathetic it just helpsit shift into that
parasympathetic response whereyou can show up a little bit
more clarity. So I'll do it whenI notice that I'm having more of
(17:09):
a stress response. I may bestarting to get into some of
those old patterns to help shiftmy system into more of a place
of calm and harmony. But I alsodo it like before bed. So if I
that was always a big thing,like with sleeping was always
challenging for me. But if I'mhaving a time when I'm, like,
really struggling to fallasleep, I'll do that. So do a
(17:29):
few physiological sighs. And Ilike notice that it's like I can
just, like, get to sleep easierby doing that. So that's been,
like, my go to practice anytimeI'm feeling like my system is
getting a little bit more ofthat stress response. I go back
to that.
Colette Fehr (17:45):
Yeah, so it's a great way to regulate your
nervous system, and I'm glad youtalked about rumination, because
I think a lot of us and a lot ofour listeners will really relate
to that. We are juggling so manythings as women, there are
plates spinning in the air,we're responsible for so much.
And so it's really easy to getinto these thinking loops that
(18:09):
are just ruminatory and reallyamp up the stress in your body.
And sometimes we're so pulledinto our thoughts, it can be
challenging to even noticethat's what's happening. So I
love the idea of this as just asyou increase your self awareness
of what you're thinking, whatyou're telling yourself,
noticing when you're stuck in aloop, and just using this, did
(18:30):
you call it physiological sigh,or physiological breath?
Physiological sigh? Okay, yeah.
So using this is just a way tointerrupt and shift gears a
little and come back to thatregulated state. You know, it's
that from like polyvagal theory.
It's that green zone when you'reopen, you're grounded, you're
(18:54):
curious, you're able to reallythink and feel from your adult
self and move through the worldengaged and present. You're
neither shut down nor superactivated, and that's really
what allows us to enjoy lifemost, make the best decisions
and take good care of ourselves.
So it's a great tool. Thanks forsharing that. Yeah, absolutely.
Dr. Kelly Kessler (19:18):
Yeah, yeah.
And
Laura Bowman (19:19):
what people like don't realize, and this is what
in anxiety work, especiallybecause I do a lot of it, is
that anxiety lives in the body,mostly like, when people are
really just uncomfortable withanxiety, they're like, I've got
a pit in my stomach. I've gottension. I can't get rid of this
feeling like a squirrel iscrawling around in my body and
(19:41):
and the thoughts are sometimes,like, secondary to that body
piece and that actually goingtowards the body with, like,
this kind of a tool, and I'msure others, is the way you
begin to make some space. Yeah,is that been your experience?
Too
Dr. Kelly Kessler (19:58):
100% and it.
It's funny, because being aphysical therapist, like the
body is my like comfort zone,like, I know the body, but like,
anything else was, like, kind offoreign. So being able to use my
body and understand my body, andit really has been that gateway
to be like, okay, like, I feeldifferent, this is working, and
then it allowed me to go intosome of those other tools and
explore different options. Butyeah, 100% the body has been
(20:19):
such a huge catalyst for me tobe able to use and really just
show up differently, and then beable to be more receptive to
other things.
Colette Fehr (20:30):
Yeah, that's the ticket. That's the it's all in
the body. I mean, anxiety is analarm state in the body, and the
thoughts are kind of like thetop of the cone. But by tuning
in and noticing that as like,oh, this tells me that I must be
getting stressed or anxious. Andnow let me really tune into
(20:51):
myself more deeply, rather thantrying to resolve these problems
that seem like the thing, let mereally connect inside and
breathe and bring myself back toa different state, and then
people feel so empowered, right?
Like what you're describing. Itfeels so good once you learn how
to do these things that yourhigh functioning anxiety doesn't
have to define or run you. And Iwas sharing with Laura before we
(21:16):
hopped on with you. You know,I'm a very kind of type A person
in a lot of ways, and I like tobe busy, and I like to do a lot,
and I like to go, go, go. Butone of the things that has been
pivotal for me that you'rereally describing is just I also
take really good care of myself,and I don't operate out of a
(21:38):
place of an inner critic. Ofcourse, we all have that voice
inside because the brain iswired to run negative, and if
we're not overriding it withintentional positive thoughts
and messages, that's what we'regoing to do. But I've learned to
not beat myself up, to givemyself validation and compassion
and to give myself rest andreally recognize just as I like
(22:00):
to go hard, it's also okay tospend a day in my pajamas and do
nothing. I take a lot ofvacations. I spend a lot of time
with friends. So you know thosethings, you can still be who you
are, but by taking care ofyourself, well, it can feel so
different, and it sounds to melike that's what you're
(22:21):
describing. You have not had alobotomy and become a different
person. Thank God. No. ThankGod. Those days are over, but
you're also like, move throughlife and be yourself with just
so much more grace for yourselfand honoring of yourself, and
it's really a beautiful thing.
Dr. Kelly Kessler (22:42):
Yes, I completely agree. I for myself,
I don't think I've necessarilychanged my core. I've just
uncovered who I really am. I'vereleased a lot of the things
that were hiding my true self,and that's been the most
beautiful thing. And it's not tosay that I don't get into these
really dark places, or havethese really hard moments, or go
through some really challengingthings and struggle with that,
(23:03):
but I don't stay there quite aslong, and I don't go quite as
deep as I used to, and that'sthe beauty of it. And I feel so
much more empowered to bringmyself out of that faster and
understand it and be curiousabout it, rather than just kind
of stop be stuck in that andfeel like this is what, who I
am. Oh, that's
Colette Fehr (23:20):
so beautiful.
Thank you for saying that. Andmaybe we could ask you a little
bit about what you use and whatworks for you with your clients
and yourself for the thoughtpart of it, right, and the inner
critic part, like, what's beenhelpful for you in dealing with
the inner critic,
Dr. Kelly Kessler (23:38):
a big part what I help people within myself
is just understanding where thisis coming from, and not
necessarily that we need to knowthe exact time when these
messages came from, butunderstanding that we have these
beliefs that are literallyrunning everything in our lives,
and we will seek out evidence tomake them true. And that has a
huge that's been a huge cows inmy life that I realized that,
(24:01):
like, Okay, I have the power tochange these beliefs and and
also our people that I workwith. Like, you have that power
to change the meaning. You can'tgo back 20 years and change the
event, but you can change themeaning that you give it. And
that's the most empowering thingthat we can do, and realize
that, like, how can we look atthat and see how life was
actually working for us, notagainst us, and making that
(24:22):
shift, so giving a differentmeaning, different perspectives,
going back to maybe some ofthose moments that we've talked
about over and over and overagain, like, how can we shift
the perspective that we have inthat give it a different meaning
that actually serves us? Sothat's been a big callous in
that, and also understanding ourvalues. So anchoring into what
is your value? How do you wantto show up in life? What is
meaningful to you? Where do youwant to invest your time and
(24:45):
energy without outsideinfluences just you? What does
that look like, really? Justgetting to know yourself again.
And then another part of that isunderstanding my past version of
myself, so the child version ofmyself, and what are. Some of
those moments that I maybe feltunsupported. So for me,
recognizing part of my healingwas understanding like I had not
(25:07):
a lot of emotional validationthroughout my life, and that has
been a huge awareness in me, andunderstanding like I didn't feel
emotionally validated orunderstood or so I was always
seeking out that validation andexternal to myself. So now I
recognize like I have tovalidate myself. I have to
validate my experience, and goback to the eight year old
(25:28):
version of myself that was maybegoing through something, and
validate her experience too, andlove her and really just honor
what she was going through,because I'm gonna carry that
through the rest of my life. Idon't honor her and understand
maybe what were some of thosethings that I wanted from
somebody or I needed to feel orhave those experiences, I also
(25:48):
go to my future self and parentmyself through my future self,
and maybe I look at my like 56year old self and be like, what
would that version of myselfTell me now? And how would they
parent me through thisexperience that I'm going
through right now. So I verymuch use the past and the
present to help me through whereI am and how I see life as I am
right now.
Colette Fehr (26:08):
Wow, thank you for sharing that. I know so many
people are gonna relate tohearing you say that you didn't
get a lot of emotionalvalidation in childhood. I think
that has been the experience forso many and really learning to
give it to yourself and howpowerful that can be. Yeah,
Laura Bowman (26:28):
and I love the past and future toggling back
and forth to really get, likewise inner guidance from
yourself. We certainly do a lotof the past stuff, but the
future, like the 80 year oldlooking back, you know, what do
they want for you? What wouldthey be proud of? What's their
wise next step for you? That's areally cool tool. Even as a
(26:49):
therapist, like, I spend a lotof time talking to myself,
saying things to myself, like,I'm the kind of person who you
know, and you're always talkingto yourself about who you are
and who you aren't, and it's soeasy to get blended with these,
like, very rigid roles, like,I'm not the kind of person who
(27:10):
does X or Y, and so it's like,really challenging that and
looking at those automaticthings you say about yourself
and beginning to undo it,because we're not that fixed
ever.
Colette Fehr (27:23):
Yeah, yeah. And, you know, Kelly, you mentioned
before boundaries, this is likea perfect segue into boundaries.
And I don't know, you know ifyou can share a little bit about
how you conceptualize boundariesand how you've implemented them
in your life, because this issomething we're all always
working on, especially as women,because society really doesn't
(27:45):
want us to have any
Unknown (27:47):
100% because society benefits are from us not having
them. So what does that looklike for
Colette Fehr (27:52):
you? And have you had to declare some big
boundaries that were reallydifficult? I'm sure.
Dr. Kelly Kessler (27:57):
Yeah. I mean, this has been an evolutionary
process for me, and it willcontinue to be, I can say, a few
years ago, I had no idea whatboundaries were. Had none. I've
had to establish, especiallywithin this last few years,
very, very strong boundarieswith some people who were very
close to me. I got to a pointwhere, like, I literally, if I
didn't, I would be selfabandoning and really losing
myself in the process. Andbecause of how much I've worked
(28:21):
on myself. I was no longerwilling to accept some of the
behaviors and things that weregoing on. It's challenging. So I
think when one of the things ofboundaries, the way I look at
it, and what's helped me setthem, is that I don't look at it
as a wall and blocking peopleout of my life. I look at it as
an invitation. So you're welcometo come into my life, but here
are the standards in which Ichoose to live. Here are my
(28:42):
values, and as long as you cansupport those values and not
take away from them, you arewelcome to be in my life and be
part of it. But if the minuteyou start to detract from those
values or started to drain me,then I'm sorry, like you can't
cross that bridge into my lifeanymore. And so that's how I
view it, that like I'm invitingpeople along this journey, but
(29:02):
I'm not going to say the personI was 234, years ago, or or
beyond that, like I'm evolving,and I'm always going to be
growing, and you're welcome tocome on that growth journey, but
you have your own responsibilityto do that along the way, and so
it has been challenging.
Boundaries have been one ofthose things that is given me so
much strength within myself torealize that, like, I can take
(29:24):
care of myself, and this hasbeen a big part of me, like
giving myself permission, oflike, it's okay, like, that's
where the inner child came from,like, I got you, I'm gonna
protect you, I'm gonna take careof you, because I felt the pull
of like, just, just appeasethem, take care of them, make
sure they're okay, let them backin. You know, you feel that
pull, and I have to constantlycome back to myself, yeah, but I
(29:45):
got me now. I didn't have me formy whole life, but I've got me
now. And so that's where thishas come in, and like, just that
ultimate love for myself, thatlike I am worthy of living a
life with peace, I'm worthy ofliving. Having a life where
growth and autonomy is part ofmy life, and I'm worthy of that
now, and I'm not willing tosacrifice that anymore. I'm not
(30:07):
willing to tolerate things thatdetract from that. And so
boundaries have been one ofthose, like really life saving
pieces in my life, but also oneof those really, really
challenging pieces in my life,because I've had relationships
dissolve and be removed from mylife that were very, very
meaningful throughout my wholelife, and that's become very
(30:27):
severed. I don't look at that inregret, because I gave them that
choice, and that was theirchoice, and I chose me, and I
chose to live my life with lovefor myself, and I will never
regret that. What I would regretis living my life, maybe when
I'm 6070, looking back and belike I chose everybody except
for me. And so that's how Ichoose my live my life today. I
Laura Bowman (30:50):
love that. Boom,
Colette Fehr (30:52):
that's it, right?
You choose you, and the onlything you would really regret is
looking back on a lifetime ofabandoning yourself, and I love
how you're framing boundaries asan invitation. It's not a wall
be in my life. I want you in mylife, but if you can't honor my
boundaries that are self lovingfor me, that are what I really
(31:15):
need to be, okay, then that'syour choice. If you want to
engage with me, you stand steadyin what you need, and then
people are either going to,like, honor that, or they're
not, and they really determinewhether or not they're going to
be in your life. Then there
Laura Bowman (31:34):
will be some necessary losses along the way.
And this is why people continueto not, you know, to abandon
themselves is because, like,risking connection with people
you want to have in your life,even though they're not, like,
great for you, is somethingpeople routinely do. But it's
worth it, even though it's hard.
Of
Colette Fehr (31:55):
course, it's hard.
I mean, you're right, and Kelly,you're saying that right. You
had to, like, maybe lose somerelationships that were really
close,
Dr. Kelly Kessler (32:04):
I did, and I want to say part of that is
grief. I mean, I go throughgrief every single day. I work
through that emotion of griefbecause of that. And so you can
have both. You can love yourselfand grieve at the same time. And
that's been in my experience of,like, I, I'm experiencing a lot
of grief this year, especially.
I've had a lot of losses in mylife because of relationships,
(32:26):
and so it's been a lot of griefto go through that. And so, you
know, it's not, I never want todownplay the complexity and the
difficulty of that, thechallenges that come along with
that. And you know, every dayit's going to be a little bit
different, because sometimesthose relationships, depending
on how they either stammer forgood or they kind of try to come
back in, you have to reestablishthose boundaries. It's grief
(32:49):
every time. Because I'm not onlygrieving what I thought that
relationship would be and myfuture of that relationship, but
I also have to grieve the pastversion of myself, that version
of myself is no longer here. SoI have to grieve that that
version is is gone. And youknow, there's a lot of
excitement and joy that there'sa new version of myself, but
(33:11):
there's parts of me that fitthat mold, and parts of me that
fit that life with people thatis different now. And so there's
a lot of grief in this process,that there's a lot of
empowerment and boundaries,there's a lot of self love with
boundaries, but boundaries alsocome with a significant amount
of grief, and I think we alsohave to be very aware of that
when we're setting theseboundaries, to anticipate that
we're going to have toexperience some grief in that as
(33:33):
well. Yeah, thanks
Laura Bowman (33:36):
for saying that, because that's the truth.
Colette Fehr (33:38):
It's easy to hold up a banner and be like we all
need boundaries, and we know weneed them. But then when it
comes to you lose connectionssometimes with people that
either you feel like you'rerequired to have a connection
with, which makes it difficult,or just people that also provide
some value that you love andcare about. It's really hard to
(33:58):
choose yourself on a daily basiswhen it comes to jeopardizing or
potentially sacrificingrelationship and connection, but
it's worth it absolutely
Dr. Kelly Kessler (34:08):
100% I mean, as much grief as I experience
every day, I still choose thisevery day, because
Colette Fehr (34:13):
honoring yourself once you get through the hard
part, feels better than havingregret or continuing to self
abandon throughout life, becausethat's how people end up,
resentful, sick, right? Thisstuff manifests in the body,
living in a perpetual stressresponse, being dysregulated and
feeling like this therapist,Liz, I know who's amazing. She
(34:37):
always talks about it ashooking, like being hooked on
someone else's speed boat,right? And you just get this
great image of, like, they'rejetting around and you're just
flailing and, like, gettingdunked in the water and half
drowning, and then you're up andyou're breathing, and then
you're under.
Dr. Kelly Kessler (34:53):
It's such a good image. So true. Yes, yes.
Unknown (34:57):
Who wants to live like that?
Dr. Kelly Kessler (34:59):
It's. You have to show up for yourself
every single day, validate yourown emotions, validate your
experience, love yourself,realize you're worthy of it.
It's like that inner work youhave to do every day, because if
you don't it can very much, youcan easily get into some of
those old patterns. And just, Ithink the big thing with
boundaries, and I just want tosay this too, is like, as far as
framing is like, boundaries isabout loving yourself. It's not
(35:22):
about punishing somebody else.
And I want to make that veryclear, because it's not about
saying, oh, and I'm gonna, I'mgonna cut you out of my life,
and then maybe you'll change.
That's manipulation, if you'retrying to get somebody to
change, because your boundaries,that's not about it's about you
preserving yourself, youprotecting yourself, you
installing that sense of safetywithin yourself, and that's
that's really the intentionbehind a boundary, and
Laura Bowman (35:44):
then it clears the path I'm imagining ideally, that
like the people who really canbe there for you and be like,
join that invitation and comeand walk your path, kind of flow
into your life. You've madespace, and you're aware for the
people who can actually be therewith you. Yes,
Dr. Kelly Kessler (36:02):
you're so right. I mean, I would say with
the loss, I have gained somegreat connections this last
year, and people that I feellike it's just, it's like, on a
soul level, you just very muchconnect with that person. And so
there is loss of somerelationships that there's also
been gains of it. So you can seethat that evolution of like you
have to kind of shed some ofthose things that were your past
(36:23):
self to make space for the newversion of yourself.
Colette Fehr (36:26):
This has been a fantastic conversation that I
think is really going to helpour listeners. And can you tell
everyone where they can findyou, how they can connect with
you or work with you, so you canfind
Dr. Kelly Kessler (36:39):
me on all socials under Dr, dr Kelly
Kessler, or at my website,optimal, uyou, Health and
wellness.com,
Colette Fehr (36:46):
wonderful and anything else that you want to
promote or or plug for ourlisteners, too. I
Dr. Kelly Kessler (36:53):
do have a guide. It's eight daily
practices, and it's really forharnessing that self loyalty and
nervous system harmony. So it'sjust eight simple things you can
do within a few minutes each dayjust to show up for yourself and
start to really connect withyourself. Oh, I love that. Yeah,
it's on my on my website, soit'll pop right up if you go on
my website, label like that.
We're under any my links onsocial media, you can find that
as well, great.
Colette Fehr (37:15):
And we're going to put your links in the show
notes, so you guys can alsocheck that for our listeners,
and I think it would beextremely valuable to have that
guide, so I'm gonna check thatout too. And it's really cool to
hear the perspective of somebodywho's so immersed in working
with the body and how you wereable to use that knowledge to
(37:38):
begin a journey. And this issomething still that we can all
do right, that like you canshift slowly. It's just being
intentional and deciding thatyou're gonna choose yourself
absolutely.
Dr. Kelly Kessler (37:52):
And even if it is a slow, you know, journey,
you feel the differences eachday. So it becomes this like
catalyst to keep you movingforward that momentum. So, you
know, don't get discouraged. Ifyou feel like, oh, I have to do
all this time you like you wantto, you start to want to show up
for yourself. It becomes thatlike Boulder, that maybe it's
slow at first, but then you getthis momentum. You're like,
(38:13):
there's no stopping me now, hereI
Colette Fehr (38:15):
go. So true and so beautiful. So a couple quick
takeaways before we let you go.
You know, what do you want toleave our listeners with as kind
of the final nuggets, becauseyou've said so many great
things. Yeah, I
Dr. Kelly Kessler (38:27):
think just leave me with a quote. It's one
of my favorite quotes that'sresonate on me, but it's from
Albert Einstein, and it says, Noproblem can be solved from the
same level of consciousness thatcreated it. So if you want your
life to look different, you haveto become different within
yourself. Oh, I
Laura Bowman (38:41):
just got goosebumps. I
Colette Fehr (38:42):
love I did too. I did too. Yeah, that is the body
saying yes, yes, right? All ofour bodies are,
Unknown (38:53):
let's help. Oh,
Colette Fehr (38:56):
my God, I love that so much. Thank you. Kelly,
I have never even heard thatquote, but I'm gonna put that
somewhere that I can see it.
It's powerful. My favorite, yes,yeah, oh my gosh. Thank you so
much for being here. This hasbeen wonderful. Everybody.
Please check Kelly out. This isthere's so much valuable
information, and people can workwith you too, right? You do
transformational coaching, or,yep,
Unknown (39:19):
do one on one coaching.
I
Dr. Kelly Kessler (39:20):
have courses, and then I'm starting community
next year.
Laura Bowman (39:23):
Yeah, this is so needed. So many women have
autoimmune and all kinds ofissues with pulling anxiety into
the body. So this is, like,super helpful in serving a lot
of people.
Dr. Kelly Kessler (39:35):
Thank you both so much. I truly enjoyed
this conversation. I'm sograteful for you having me on
today.
Colette Fehr (39:39):
Thank you and everyone. If you liked what you
heard today, and we hope youdid, please share with your
friends, leave us a five starreview, reach out to us with
questions. We want to hear fromyou, and check out Kelly online.
Everything's in the show notes,and we'll see you next time.
Bye,
Unknown (39:57):
guys, you.
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