April 16, 2025 • 46 mins
Buckle up. In this episode, we get real about what it's like to raise kids between the ages of 10 to 18 in a world that looks nothing like the one we grew up in. From the emotional rollercoaster of middle school years to navigating social media, anxiety, and the constant pressure to be “on,” we break down the mental load parents are carrying—and what actually helps. Spoiler: It’s not control, and it’s definitely not panic.
Join us as we unpack what long-leash parenting really looks like, why emotional regulation (yours and theirs) is key, and how to create that solid, secure attachment your kids need—without micromanaging them into dysfunction. Whether you’re dealing with defiance, withdrawal, or just trying to keep your cool through the chaos, this episode will leave you feeling seen, supported, and maybe even a little more sane.
Episode Highlights:
[0:03] - Why parenting tweens and teens feels harder than ever.
[1:43] - Understanding adolescent brain development and modern challenges.
[4:35] - Colette shares her anxious “blue dot” tracking phase and why it’s so relatable.
[6:13] - The “long leash, large corral” approach to parenting.
[10:29] - Replacing lectures with Socratic conversations to foster trust and independence.
[13:49] - Colette’s unforgettable car ride convo and why staying calm matters.
[16:50] - How to view misbehavior as a lack of skills—not a reason to punish.
[17:33] - Why regulating your emotions is the parenting superpower.
[19:50] - The horse whisperer metaphor that’ll change how you parent forever.
[24:32] - Parenting the “Polaroid” child: Navigating confusing or unclear behavior.
[26:35] - Laura’s Life360 obsession and the new realities of teen safety.
[30:18] - Why social kids might actually fare better than isolated ones.
[33:41] - The dangerous rise of incel ideology and digital radicalization.
[34:50] - The case for no phones in schools and delayed access to social media.
[36:13] - Rejection in the age of Instagram: why it hits harder now.
[38:59] - Talking to your teen about the long game and giving them vision.
[40:50] - The crushing pressure of college admissions and why it’s unsustainable.
[41:41] - Final takeaways: connection over control, collaboration over lecturing.
[44:32] - Letting go: Adolescence as labor and the importance of separation.
[44:57] - One last reminder: regulate your emotions and help them learn to do the same.
Resources:
📝 Download the Parenting Tweens & Teens Worksheet: insightsfromthecouch.org
📺 Watch “The Horse Whisperer”
📚 The Anxious Generation by Jonathan Haidt
📺 The Netflix series “Adolescence”
📱 Life360 (for those who love a little tracking reassurance)
💌 Reach out to us anytime at: info@insightsfromthecouch.org
Make sure to visit the “Resources” page on our website www.insightsfromthecouch.org to download the worksheet and take ways that accompany each episode. This is hugely important as we are now creating a download that is unique to each episode and working hard to create an email list to support our programming offerings moving forward.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Colette Fehr (00:03):
Welcome back to insights from the couch. Today
we're diving into raising andsurviving tweens and teens. So
if you're a parent and you'vegot kids in that age, God knows
what it really is now, evenmaybe 1110, or 11 to 18, this
episode is for you. We're goingto explore how to discern when
(00:25):
you should intervene, what thebest parenting strategies are
for keeping your sanity, becausethis is a difficult stage of
parenting, especially in today'sworld. And don't forget to go to
our website, insights from thecouch.org, to download a
worksheet that will help youwith tips to survive this phase
(00:45):
of life. Let's dive in, Laura.
We've got a lot to say aboutthis.
Laura Bowman (00:50):
Oh my god. I guess I first want to say, like, not
all tweens and teens are thesame. So I think that this
exists on a continuum with somereally, really tough problems
that parents face in this phase.
I mean, you can run in headlonginto addiction in this age. You
can have eating disorders you'redealing with. You can have
(01:12):
bullying. You can have reallycomplex learning issues. You can
have mental health concerns thatare burgeoning, that you don't
really understand what you'reseeing. So and then some kids
are really, I mean, God, I hateto use the word normal, typical.
And parents are like, I don'tknow. This was not that hard.
And even in families, if youhave enough kids, you're going
(01:35):
to get a little bit ofeverything. So I just want to be
compassionate to people whoreally are pushed
Colette Fehr (01:44):
to their wits end at this phase. Yeah. And maybe
also, we could begin by twothings come to mind to me. First
of all, developmentally, whatthis phase is with the brain?
Even, you know, many people haveheard, I'm sure, that the brain
is not fully developed, but it'sreally true. And this is
(02:04):
supposed to be a stage wherekids try things, make mistakes
and learn, and that's reallyconsistent with the development
of the brain. Kids don't have afully formed prefrontal cortex
during this time. In fact, it'snot fully formed until the early
to mid 20s, so kids still needparental guidance, but they also
(02:27):
need some space to make mistakesand learn on their own, and that
is really the best thing parentscan do during this phase, is to
focus on guidance rather thancontrol. The second thing I want
to highlight before we dive incompletely is that this is a
very different time from when weas Gen X women were growing up.
(02:49):
Back then, it used to be thatkids went through almost the
teenage rebellion, the teenageequivalent of a midlife crisis,
when developmentally kids wereseparating from parents, and for
many of us with boomer parents,this was just a total rejection
of our parents, outrighteverything they thought they
(03:10):
knew their culture. We wantednothing to do with them. We
were, you know, sneaking out ofthe house, making out with boys
or girls or whatever else,experimented with drugs and
alcohol, sometimes telling ourparents to fuck off. Or maybe
I'm just speaking for myself,because I was definitely my most
(03:30):
rambunctious and rebelliousduring the tween years. But in
today's world, the landscape haschanged, and kids, in fact, one
of the bigger struggles is thatkids don't really know how to
connect. They lack socialskills. They're anxious. We know
from Jonathan hates book, theanxious generation. This is one
of the biggest problems. So it'snot kids, you know, racing off
(03:53):
and rejecting their parentsanymore, a stage that was
difficult for parents, but weknew would end, and kids would
kind of even out for most kids.
Now it's this anxiety, this lackof social development, and then
also the world we live in isscarier than ever, and the
problems are really complex anddifferent with AI, with a lack
(04:15):
of connection, right? I mean,it's social media. You're
Laura Bowman (04:21):
like, depressing me as you're talking. I'm like,
there are so many issues. It'slike, squirrel, squirrel. Like,
right? I mean, as parents, it'sso easy to live in, like, such a
heightened state of anxiety, oflike, what am I supposed to be
doing? Absolutely,
Colette Fehr (04:36):
and I don't know about you, but during my kids
are now 21 and Charlotte will be24 on Wednesday, which blows my
mind. But the tween years wereharder for me, in a way. The
middle school years, just like Iwas, were harder for me with my
girls, than the teen years, butI did feel in a constant state
of anxiety, whether it was theywere going to their first party
(04:58):
and what was going to go on. Herworries about sexual assault. As
a mother of two daughters whenthey first started driving, and
I've laughed with you about thisa million times, I would follow
because Charlotte was the firsther blue dot down, I four and
literally think I was having apanic attack picturing cars
smashing into her at every atevery mile I know. So there's a
(05:20):
lot just even in the normalrealm. Not to mention, how do we
help kids navigate social mediathat is hijacking brains for the
worse?
Laura Bowman (05:31):
Okay, there's so much to talk about. Like, where
do we start? I mean, I I want tostart. I love the the term, and
I say this a lot in therapy islike, I subscribe, and I think
you do too. I feel like we'realigned on this, yes to the long
leash, large corral, theory ofparenting, laissez faire, yeah.
(05:51):
Like, I see it as, like, a hugeI've got, there's guardrails.
They're like, I'm watching. I'mpaying attention. But they are
playing at the swimming pool.
I'm like checking to make sureno one's drowning, but I am very
much allowing all of my kids tobe who they are. Yeah, are you
the same on that?
Colette Fehr (06:13):
Oh my gosh, absolutely. I think that this is
one of the tragedies of thistime, is that's what's getting
lost, and we talked about thisbefore in our episode on like
helicopter and lawn mowerparenting. Yeah, parents who not
only hover but the lawn mowerphenomenon being remove every
obstacle. It's really actuallydangerous for your child in the
(06:36):
long term, because they don'tdevelop any problem solving
skills and they can't navigatethe world. In fact, let me give
one example. Charlotte's goingto be 24 okay? So I believe in
this mentality that we'retalking about, and yet, as a mom
who the thing I care about mostin this world is my kids, and I
think every parent would wouldrelate to that, right? Nothing
(06:59):
else really matters to me at theend of the day, and in my head,
I believe in this, in my heartand in my nervous system, I
sometimes struggle with it, evenlittle things like I'm trying to
Charlotte's coming to meet mefor something this weekend. I've
bought her a plane ticket. Shehas to switch planes. She's 24 I
got married at 24 Okay, yeah,but Charlotte also has dyslexia
(07:22):
and ADHD, and I'm not makingexcuses, but there are things
where I worry about her gettingto the airport not seeing the
wrong time on the ticket. So Ifound myself yesterday going
like, Oh my God, I've got to,like, figure out all her flights
and download her boarding pass.
And then I was like, What thehell am I doing? Like, I need to
help her, give her a little bitof information, give her some
(07:45):
guidance on what to do, becauseagain, this will be harder for
her than it might be for someother 24 year old. And then, you
know what? If she misses theflight, she misses the flight,
she's got to learn. Andprobably, if she heard this,
which she never will. She'd belike, Are you kidding me, Mom, I
can download my own boardingpass, right? This is less her
lack of capability than myworry. Yeah. And that's the
(08:08):
thing, you know, like, Iremember, like, when I was
growing up, my mom would always,like, as soon as you had, like,
a scratchy throat, she's like,you need an antibiotic. I mean,
I think my mom thinks, like, youneed an antibiotic for literally
every bag for everything. She'slike, well, better to know what
you lived from than what youdied from, you know, like, you
know, just, like, she justthinks the investor was the
(08:29):
thing, yeah? And, like, I alwaysdid this thing, and she just
couldn't stand me doing thiswith the kids, where I'd like,
see that they were getting alittle, like, under the weather,
and I would take this wait andsee approach, yeah. Like, will
this resolve? Like, is this likea virus, see thing, or, like, do
I really need to take them tothe doctor because they've got
like, a raging fever, and it'slike, my metaphor is, can you do
(08:52):
the same thing with your kids inthese in this phase of life? Can
you watch? Can you take a beatand go. I'm not sure which
direction this is going to go,but I'm going to stay attuned to
it and have some instinctsaround what to do next without
flooding the zone with likeantibiotic or rescue or, you
know, preempt, right, right? AndI think part of it is training
(09:17):
yourself, because really at thisstage. And we want to give you
guys some things to focus on aswomen who are sort of through
this phase for the most part,both of us, even though you're a
little bit maybe 17, yeah, soyou're almost there, then
you're, in a way, really out ofthe worst time. But we want to
give you a couple things toreally think about and focus on
(09:39):
things I wish I knew during thatphase that would have helped me,
and also just kind of synthesizea couple points, and one of
them, I think, is really not toconfuse control with guidance. I
hear so many parents as atherapist and even out in the
world really micromanaging.
(10:00):
Children, and what we reallywant to do in this phase is
equip them with a good valuesystem and help them support
them in learning how to makegood decisions. And if we rush
in and make all the decisionsfor them, whether it's whisking
them off to the doctor orsetting such hard, rigid rules
(10:20):
around things that perhaps don'tmatter that much, we're going to
really, like, clip our kids andhamper their ability to navigate
the adult world.
Laura Bowman (10:30):
Yeah, and I think the how on that is, like, really
this, like, Socraticcollaboration method, right?
It's not like you, because Ithink that you can get into this
cycle with your kids when youranxiety is high, stakes are high
sometimes at kids of lecturing,teaching, preaching, you know,
(10:50):
instructing in this. Like, whatyou really need to do now is you
need to do this. So you need todo that. And I can't believe you
haven't thought about this, youwill get, like, strong, armed by
your kid at a certain point,they will tune you out. They
will keep you out of their lifeif they if they feel too much of
this coming
Colette Fehr (11:05):
to towards and they won't turn to you in times
of need, no,
Laura Bowman (11:09):
because it's to this. It's too much, it's too
hard. You know, they know thatyour anxiety is going to get
triggered, and then they're justgoing to be dealing with that.
Colette Fehr (11:18):
Or they know they're going to get lectured,
yeah, yeah, so instead of likebecause I said so or this is
what you need to do, I'm tellingyou I know more than you. Let's
talk about why this matters,right? Let's talk about Teach
them why something is importantand like anything. I love your
point about the Socratic method,it's a great way. That's where
(11:39):
you ask questions, and then youask questions about the
questions for those people whomay not be familiar with that
term, and you really helpsomebody get to their own truth.
It's so much more powerful thandictating something the brain
just doesn't engage the sameway. How amazing if you could
empower your children to come tosome kind of fundamental truth
(12:03):
on their own while you'reproviding those guardrails, and
your best friend in thesemoments is going to be your
ability to listen with nonjudgmental curiosity.
Laura Bowman (12:15):
You are going to just keep your mouth shut.
You're going to ask a wellplaced question, and then you're
just gonna fall back and listenwith interest. Let
Colette Fehr (12:23):
me tell you something. I have one little
quickie story you've probablyheard. I will not say which
daughter to protect the privacy,but one time during I don't
remember exactly how old she shewas, but I was in New York with
one of my daughters in the car.
I have no idea where we weregoing, and I was driving on the
West Side Highway. I will neverforget it. And this daughter was
(12:46):
at an age where I think I wasn'tprepared to have this kind of
conversation, but I wasnavigating a conversation about
this daughter becoming sexuallyactive with a long time boy.
Remember that? Yeah. And so Istarted asking questions because
I wanted to see what was goingon make sure there was safety.
And I got a lot more than Ibargained for. I mean, I heard
(13:08):
about, like, orgasms, positions,and I'm driving, and my daughter
said these things with suchtrust and faith and nonchalance.
And on the one hand, I'm going,This is so great, ripping the
steering wheel, gripping thewheel like this. I'm in the left
lane. People are passing me,which, if you know me, I would
(13:31):
never allow to happen. And I'mjust like, Uh huh, uh huh. I'm
like, Okay, well, so that orgasmwasn't so great, or you haven't
had one yet, and I'm justthinking, in a million years, my
mother, until she hears thispodcast, still doesn't know I
have sex and I have two kids.
What is happening?
Laura Bowman (13:50):
You're the Virgin Mary. I'm the brightest next
Colette Fehr (13:53):
Immaculate Conception. You know, like, it's
just not generationally ascommon. I think. Yeah, to give
explicit details about suchintimacies, but you want your
kid to come to you with thatstuff, because you do know more
than them, and you are able todiscern for safety, that's
what's most important.
Laura Bowman (14:15):
No, I mean, and you can't, like fake or you, you
can't construct a relationshipthat isn't there. So, like,
that's such a testament to theeverything that came before it,
yeah, that she knew she could beso honest with you, yeah?
Because a lot of kids, by thisphase, are hiding their life,
yeah. Mom can't handle this. Momwon't know to do with this. I
(14:37):
would be so embarrassed to saythis in front of her, yeah? So I
think it's, you know, go backand listen to our good mother
episode, because that's wherethe foundation of this is. Do
you provide safety for yourkids? Are you? Are you
interested in them? Do they knowthat you have their back,
Colette Fehr (14:54):
right? And can you? This is where I think the
non judgmental curiosity is key.
And let me be clear. Earlier,and I know this is true for you
too. We're not advocating whenwe talk about long leash,
laissez faire, and it's nothingleft no and it's not a lack of
consequences when children makea mistake. This is not to say
don't discipline. In fact, oneof the problems in today's world
(15:14):
is that there's probably toolittle discipline, but you want
to create a space where kidsfeel comfortable opening up, and
if there are consequences, theyunderstand why, as much as
possible, and they have someagency in their own lives. If I
heard something where my kidswere breaking a rule, then there
would have to be some kind ofconsequence for that. But I do
(15:37):
think because I managed, eventhough I'm the most expressive
person without a poker face,I've listened to some shit that,
like, I can't believe I keptkept a straight face where I was
thinking, Oh my God, I want to,like, take my kid, lock them in
the basement, even though wedon't have basements in Florida,
and not let them out tillThey're 27
Laura Bowman (16:00):
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, just back to, like,
consequences. I think a lot oftimes when, when there's a need
to punish, quote, unquote, it'sreally that like a kid has a
lack of skills. You know, I havea son that can sometimes get
really angry and like it cues tome, like he does not know how to
regulate his emotions aroundcertain things and like he's got
(16:22):
to get out of my house with someskills, you know, and that's to
me, like, what I'm always tryingto instill in my kids is when I
see these deficits, or when Isee like something that maybe
another parent would have aninstinct to punish. It's cueing
me like, What do I still need tohelp them learn, help cultivate,
(16:44):
yeah, and not in a preachy way,because it's not going to go in
that way, but in a way, like,Okay, this is still a thing, and
in a collaborative
Colette Fehr (16:51):
way. And I'm collaborative, yeah, yeah. And
I'm so right. You're theexecutive subsystem. You're the
parent. This isn't like equalwe're besties, but you're there
providing guidance, teachingthis kid and their developing
brain how they're going to startto navigate the adult world.
This is what adolescence issupposed to be about, and I'm so
(17:14):
glad you used that example,because I was going to say I was
thinking about this, if I couldtell a parent of a tween or
teen, what I think one of themost important things you could
do for your children is it wouldbe to learn to regulate your
freaking emotions and teach themhow to do it, and
Laura Bowman (17:33):
then, of course, that you lead by example, like
there is nothing like if youcan't regulate your emotions. I
mean, I have a kid right nowthat I work with where he can't
regulate his emotions, and hisfather can't regulate his
emotions, and the two of themare just like banging up against
each other, but it's like, howcan you teach something that you
don't have right now in thatsystem, it's just two angry,
(17:57):
dysregulated people, yeah,
Colette Fehr (17:59):
yeah. And I feel like I'm so passionate about
this for a couple of reasons.
One, as a couple's therapist,the lack of ability to regulate
emotions causes so much chaos.
In fact, most of the chaos andit's hard because couples,
right, are constantly pushing oneach other's fight or flight
systems. But regardless, theprimary task, in my opinion of
(18:21):
emotional maturity and being anadult is knowing how to regulate
your emotions. And I say thiswith a soft spot for any of you
who struggle with that, becauseI struggle with that. I am a
very passionate, emotionalperson in my younger years. I
mean, I'm quick to get overstuff, but I feel everything
intensely. I used to throw shit,freak out, scream, say things. I
(18:45):
mean, there are moments, but Ihave really learned to manage my
emotions to a degree thatsometimes even I'm shocked by
even though I was yelling at mymicrophone as we got onto this
podcast. That doesn't count. Butyes, and I feel like this is the
best skill. And to your point,kids learn the most, in a way,
(19:08):
by what's modeled for them. Soif you're lashing out in anger,
your kid is learning, and theymay also be genetically
predisposed to this, if it's atrait, form of anger instead of
a state form of anger. You knowthey're gonna say, Okay, I guess
this is okay. And not only mightthey do that to others in their
lives as an adult, but they mayseek partners and friends who
(19:32):
treat them badly and think it'sokay because of how mom or dad
acted.
Laura Bowman (19:39):
Yeah. I mean, you know what it reminds me of, like
this whole emotional regulation,if you back to my long leash,
large corral, let's use anotherhorse metaphor. Have you seen
the horse whisperer? No, wait,
Colette Fehr (19:50):
the movie from a million years ago? Yeah. I read
the book. Yes. Okay with RobertRedford.
Laura Bowman (19:55):
The scene where the, you know, the horse is
traumatized, the horse isfreaking out. Out the Kristen
Scott Thomas character is, like,eager to get the horse under
control, right? It breaks freefrom this, like, wherever it is,
and like, runs off into thefield. And this is, you know, in
this example, that's like theadolescent, like, ah, and the
(20:15):
Robert Redford character, justlike, walks into the field and,
like, sits there and just stays,like all day, till that horse
decides, like, you're steadyenough that I can trust you, I'm
gonna follow you. And then tome, that's the parent. Can you
(20:37):
steady yourself in these stormsenough that, like, the that
child is, like, you got me, it'smaking you emotional. It is
because, like,
Colette Fehr (20:46):
it's everything I know, and it's hard to do,
Laura Bowman (20:49):
and it's like, so few people get that. So few
people get a person who can staythat calm and that steady in
such emotional moments. The normis that it we ricochet off of
each other, and then the parentsall frazzled, and then the kid
feels like, oh geez. And it'slike, I think everybody should
(21:10):
watch that movie, that scene, ifthey would like to know how
you're really going to, youknow, steady your kid. You gotta
steady
Colette Fehr (21:18):
yourself. I am not surprised to see tears in your
eyes when you say this, becauseit is the greatest gift of
adolescence to be that steady,consistent presence and to allow
your child with that developingbrain what comes with it, that
emotional ability. They're goingto be all over the place, their
affect, they lack emotionalregulation at that place, and
(21:41):
some kids more than others. Butif you can be there, and instead
of being reactive and gettinginto a negative cycle where
every argument escalates, if youcan be the steady presence, you
have your lines, you're notgoing to compromise on but
because they're freaking out,you don't freak out back. You're
both modeling and creating thatsafety and that trust, and
(22:04):
you're you're setting, notsetting an example. You are
creating the heart of secureattachment that children will
then look for in their adultrelationships.
Laura Bowman (22:15):
Yes, ah, it's everything. It's everything,
everything you want to be aneffective parent, right there?
Yes. And
Colette Fehr (22:23):
if you are having trouble regulating your
emotions, go to therapy. Like,yeah. It's worth it,
Laura Bowman (22:29):
because some parents and kids are not great
fits. We've talked about thisbefore, but like, there will be
some kids that just push you,push on vulnerable parts of you,
undeveloped parts of you, oldparts of you, and it's just like
you're you're pulled intoactivation so much quicker than
you'd want to be, and that'swhere and I have, I have clients
(22:51):
that have come to therapy forthat reason, and they're amazing
for getting ahead of that.
Colette Fehr (22:56):
I've struggled with one child more than the
other in terms of my ownregulation. Ironically, the kid
who's more like me is the one.
It's always like that, right?
Oh, we can escalate so we'resuper close, but it is just, she
pushes my buttons. I push herbuttons. Oh, yeah, it's
challenging. I mean, I
Laura Bowman (23:16):
want to talk about like also that it's really
confusing sometimes, as even asa person who's really attuned to
their kids, like, I feel likechildren develop like Polaroids,
you know, like the polaroidphoto where it's like, you don't
know quite what you're lookingat as it's drying, as it's
setting up. And I see this even,like, I've had clients where
they've missed like that theirchild had a real serious anxiety
(23:40):
disorder, and the kid was very,very angry, like, you didn't
catch this. And the parents werelike, we didn't know what we
were looking at. And it's veryeasy as these developmental
stages go along to go, oh, thisis just this phase, or this just
these friends, or it's just thisweird school, or they didn't
feel this way there. And thenafter you see 25 years of the
(24:04):
chain laid out, you're finallyable to go, oh, this is what it
is. And so I think we have tohave compassion for ourselves,
watching these Polaroids developand and like going, Okay, I I
only had the information I hadat the time, and I had to make
the best decision at the time,and and that we know more as
(24:26):
more time goes on, about whatthe core issues are with our
kids, strengths, weaknesses,everything.
Colette Fehr (24:32):
Yeah, that's so true. And I think the Polaroid
metaphor is perfect. It'sbeautiful. It really brings it
to life. But you know what I'malso thinking as you say, this
is that one of the dangers, youknow, we're therapists, so we're
more aware of some of what theissues might be. It doesn't make
it any easier to parent. I'm notsaying we have a leg up, just
(24:54):
more information about some ofthe things that some people
might so let's say our kidsstruggling with anxiety. We
might be more prone to spot thatand know what it is
diagnostically and seek help forit, even potentially. But one of
the dangers is that you're in avacuum with your own kids, and
you don't really know,especially if you have one child
(25:15):
or the other is younger, youdon't really have a lot to
compare against in terms ofwhat's normal. I don't mean from
a like an okay aboutpersonality, but I mean about is
your child struggling withsomething that they really need
additional help and resources?
And I would say err on the sideof caution, and even if it's
(25:35):
something like where you go talkto a therapist for one session,
or do research or something,talk to somebody who is an
expert in that field if you dosuspect something, because
getting a child help earlier canmake such a huge difference in
the trajectory of their life.
Laura Bowman (25:57):
Yeah, and I think there are certain situations
that you have to, like, reallyget active in. I mean, I'm
thinking anything with, like,addiction setting up. I'm
thinking certain learning issuesthat really require parenting,
health, safety,
Colette Fehr (26:15):
safety and health being first and foremost, right?
Those are not the place to go.
Sure. You know, back in the day,I'm thinking about it, my
parents still don't know halfthe stuff that I went running
around doing because I'd lieabout where I was. There was no
way to track anyone. And, youknow, I'm dancing on the bar at
a club doing shots at 16.
(26:35):
Parents
Laura Bowman (26:35):
live without, like, life 360 well, like, I
refresh that. Like I'm alwayslooking like, oh, where? Oh,
this one's driving, Okay, thisone's still at school. Like,
yeah, that has given me so muchpeace of mind, yeah. Well, I
feel so sorry for
Colette Fehr (26:49):
our parents. Me too, especially since I was
constantly like, I'm sleeping atso and so's house, and then I
was in the city lying and sayingI was eight years older than I
was engaging in, really what Ilook back on. You know, I felt
very savvy and mature, but I wasdoing I wasn't doing anything
that bad. I wasn't sleeping withanyone. I wasn't doing drugs. I
(27:12):
was just like wanting to bemischievous and exercise my
budding personality. But I wasputting myself into situations
that as a parent. Now I'm like,oh my god,
Laura Bowman (27:24):
I could have, would you have intervened on
you? Yes, oh my god, yes, Iwould like, what would you have
done with you as a parent? Oh,
Colette Fehr (27:34):
it's so hard because So the approach of like,
we're gonna lock you down kindof thing or talk about fit with
parenting. If I had a sternparent who was like my way, I
would not I would have just beenrebelled more. And I saw that in
my first Catholic schoolexperience, where, when I went
to a different Catholic school,where they understood my spirit
(27:58):
and they didn't try to crush it,but they did hold guardrails. I
really thrived in that. So Ithink my parents did a really
pretty good job, because theydid confront things, what they
knew about, but they didn't.
They never crushed my spirit.
However, I think that, you know,I can't really fault them. They
(28:20):
just didn't know what theydidn't know. And I was hard to
stop, you know, you'd say oneconsequence, and then I find a
way around it. And almost, itwasn't really like, Oh, I'm
gonna just break the rules. Itwas just, I just wanted to,
like, try things. You know, mymom went away and she said, the
one thing you cannot be herewhile I'm gone stay with your
(28:43):
dad. I didn't like that, and shewould lock the house up like
Fort Knox. There was no way in.
I mean, it was bull. Shewouldn't give me the key, and
that pissed me off. So beforeshe left, I went through this
elaborate ruse with friends, andI pushed a screen out of the
second floor window so that andI left it unlocked. And after
(29:03):
she left, we took a ladder,brought over to the house in
someone else's truck, propped itup. My friend Jimmy crawled
through the window, and then wehad people over. It was supposed
to just be 20 people, but ofcourse, what happens to a
teenage party? And then thepolice were called, and it
(29:25):
turned into a whole big thing.
But if my mom had just she, didshe find
Laura Bowman (29:31):
out? And like, Oh yeah, yeah. So what was that
conversation? Like
Colette Fehr (29:36):
them yelling at me and beat me, being like, well,
that's what you get for nottrusting me.
Laura Bowman (29:44):
But the problem is, and I just is where I have,
like, empathy for all parents,myself included, is like, you
just don't know which way someof these behaviors go, right?
Like, obviously you've turnedout just fine, right? Like,
you're an incredible adult, butyou worry. Like, is this the
kind of stuff that foreshadowslike, this could be it like,
(30:05):
having real problems, you know,breaking society's rules,
getting into, like, a dangeroussituation, right? You don't
know. You don't know. And that'sthe Polaroid of it all. Like,
what am I watching right
Colette Fehr (30:18):
now? So true. And you know what the ski this is
where I think the reality oftoday's world comes into play
too, because not that thereweren't serious consequences
then, I mean, I could have beenraped and killed a million times
over. It really some of thestuff I was doing wasn't good.
And again, I was a straight Astudent. I didn't do drugs. I
drank, but socially, never inexcess. I drank more as an adult
(30:40):
than I drank as a kid. So in away, I wasn't really that bad,
but I was definitely testing thewaters. And you didn't know, in
fact, a lot of my friend'sparents, I think, thought I was
like a wild child during thattime, and might have wondered if
I would turn out to be such aresponsible, conscientious
(31:02):
adult, and the stakes now feeleven higher, like it feels so
dangerous to let your kid roamand do and part of it is back
then, we didn't have a choice.
We didn't have life 360 youknow, we weren't so involved in
college and all of these stages.
So now we know a lot, and itfeels like our kids can be
(31:26):
ruined if we're not on top ofeverything. That's what I think
is so terrifying for people.
Laura Bowman (31:33):
It is, but also what I'm I don't know if you've
heard some of this, one of thoseguys that I follow is talking
about how, like, kids don'tdrink anymore, yes, and that
it's not that's not like theysmoke pot, but like they're
numbing out, but they're notconnecting. Like, drinking is a
little bit different social,more social, and so like, in
some ways, you had, like, it'salmost a protective factor that
(31:57):
you were so social, and then youwere like, also, like, so
capable in school, yeah, and,and so in some ways, you weren't
as risky as you seemed, right,right? And some of the scarier
things these days, it's like,the withdrawing, the isolation,
the lack of like, feeling likeyou're viable on any front. What
(32:18):
is
Colette Fehr (32:18):
that? I totally agree with you, Laura. And of
course, because look at howgreat I turned out. No, I'm
kidding. But like, what's thatterm I just learned for a kid
who sits in the room all day andplays on an INCEL No, no, no,
but let's talk about thatbriefly. But no, there's another
term. It's something for a kidwho's in the room all day on
(32:39):
video games, which we know is athing. And then let's talk about
the INCEL thing for a moment,because the show adolescence
came out on Netflix not longago. Oh my gosh. And that is a
real one of many, not to mentionfentanyl trafficking, right? All
of the big, scary things thatcan happen that we we really
can't troubleshoot for. I mean,you can't be on top of your kid
(33:03):
and walk them like a dog on aleash, but adolescence, and I
don't want to give any spoilers,but shows this kid. It's a four
part show that was shot incontinuous form. It's so
powerful. The acting is amazing,and it shows this little boy.
He's Tiny, he's 13 years old.
He's so vulnerable, and he'saccused of killing a classmate,
a female classmate, in a rage.
(33:28):
And what we come to find is thatthere was some bullying going on
by this girl, and he really wasdeveloping in that INCEL, that
radicalized, angry INCELmindset. And you see this kid
the
Laura Bowman (33:41):
manosphere? Yes, yes. So scary red
Colette Fehr (33:45):
pill stuff and all the it's really scary that this
is happening to and so many ofthis these kids. They're not
sociopaths. They're being theirbrains, their fragile, spongy
brains, are being inculcatedwith radicalized ideas that
justify violence and anger, anda lot of it is coming from
(34:07):
disconnection and technology,yeah,
Laura Bowman (34:10):
and this is, it's so good that you brought this up
because I I'm not heavy handedon almost anything, as we know,
large leash, large, yeah, youknow, long leash, large corral.
But I think the social mediathing, I think we're just about
ready to get this right bytaking phones out of schools,
not letting social kids havesocial media till 16. I agree. I
actually think that's brilliant.
I think we've really fuckedwith, like, a whole generation
(34:35):
of kids brains. I agree, and Ido not know where that's headed
but I think we've got this islike a public health emergency.
And I to, you know, to makeadolescents healthier, we have
to get social media into its
Colette Fehr (34:51):
proper place. I completely agree. I think it's
difficult to put the toothpasteback in the tube as a society,
but we have to try. And I'mwholeheartedly for the no phones
in schools. I mean, I think thisshould be enforced more strictly
than anything, because we knowwhat it does to the forming
brain, much less even ourbrains, right? My god, yeah,
(35:12):
hijacks your attention span. Andthat's just the beginning.
That's the very tip of theiceberg. But it's really almost
abusive to subject kids to thekind of conditioning and the
emotional experiences they haveas a result of social media when
they do not have thedevelopmental capacity to handle
(35:33):
those emotions, the rejection,the betrayal, the ostracization,
the bullying. I mean, thinkabout it. When we were young,
you did not have droves of 10year olds, nine and 10 year olds
dying by suicide. That is insaneand that is coming from social
media, because the influence isso pervasive and so deep. Yeah,
Laura Bowman (35:54):
it's so potent coming toward you at that age. I
mean, I remember, like, as akid, even going to school when,
like, friends would be mad atfriends would be mad at you.
Yes, but can you imagine if thatwas like the whole world on
online, yeah, like being gassedup online, where that's all
coming at you? Or
Colette Fehr (36:13):
imagine if you go, you pulled up a screen and you
saw everyone's at the party andyou weren't invited, not only do
you find out Monday, like wedid, oh, they had a sleepover
and didn't include me, and theytalked about you the whole time,
right? Which that actuallyhappened to me in the 70s. Yeah,
that's happened to me too. Oh,and I went to school and I was
(36:34):
like, fuck you. You're gonnaregret the day that you
ostracized me. But it was deep.
I
Laura Bowman (36:41):
wish I had taken that approach. It took me a
couple days to get
Colette Fehr (36:44):
there, but and then, of course, they apologized
and blah, blah, blah, and I tookthat. I'm still friends with a
lot of them to this day, right?
It happens, but imagine that'shappening and you see pictures
that hits you on a much deeperlevel. And what if, like this
boy in adolescence, what ifeverybody, not only are you
being bullied by one girl, butwhat if everybody's going on
(37:06):
social media calling you aloser, calling you names, this
kid who was adorable, came tobelieve he was the ugliest kid
in school, and that No girlwould ever like him, because
that's what he was told indroves on social media. So we
have to find some parameters forthis. And
Laura Bowman (37:26):
that's just, like, cute another a quick other
thought, yeah, I don't thinkkids realize, and especially in
that, like, tunnel vision oflike, you know, early
adolescence on social media, itjust feels like your life is
over. Obviously, that 13 yearold kids life is not, you know,
was just beginning, and hedidn't realize that. And that's,
you know, conversation I evenhad with my 17 year old recently
(37:49):
where he was, like, lamentingcertain things about his life,
and, like, worried about certainthings. And I was like, you just
don't realize how much runwayyou have you don't realize that
you're here at 17, but you haveno idea where this is gonna go
when you're 30. Like, do youremember that whole campaign
(38:11):
that they ran for gay kidscalled the It Gets Better
campaign? Yes, yes, of course,yeah. It was based on the fact
that, like, a lot of like, gaykids feel like, Oh, my God,
what's the point? Like, I don'teven, I can't even steal life
for myself. So these olderpeople who had, like, you know,
who are gay, like, did theselittle voice to camera things
(38:31):
where it was like, Look, it getsbetter. And let me tell you
about my life. And I think thatkids in these stages lack
vision, yeah, I mean, and thisis where we can serve a little
bit as their prefrontal cortexbring them some perspective. And
I gave my son, like, a good bitof perspective. I was like, let
me just tell you what this lookslike 10 years from now. I love
(38:54):
10 years from now. And you knowwhat he said? He's like, he's
like, Thank you, because hecouldn't come up with that.
Colette Fehr (38:59):
Yeah. You know, that really helps me as I'm
thinking about this, because Isee I'm seeing my daughters go
through anxiety about gettingjobs and careers and this poor
generation. I mean, even Gen X,I was reading an article
yesterday that like, we're sortof, we've sort of gotten screwed
by the current market economyand the dire state of the world
(39:21):
in our retirement. But thesekids are in this generation
where jobs are drying up. It'smore expensive than ever. You
know, unless you're the elitecoming out of these Ivy League
schools or you had a career pathfrom birth, it's, it's, there's
a lot of
Laura Bowman (39:37):
super savvy with your digital video, you know,
media issues, yeah, some ofthese kids are gonna Right. And,
Colette Fehr (39:43):
you know, I didn't figure out what I wanted to do
until my mid 30s, and I triedlots of careers and lots of
things. And, you know, I try totell my kids, but I'm gonna
circle back to this, like it'sokay, it's okay not to know. You
don't have to have your lifefigured out. Out in one second.
You know, it's okay to trysomething and it's not the
(40:04):
thing. I think there's so muchfear of making mistakes with
these kids, and maybe that'sanother polar opposite of how it
used to be. We messed up a lot.
I mean, I did have someconsequences. I got kicked out
of a school like, some stuffhappened that was not ideal for
me. Yeah, I mean, I learned
Laura Bowman (40:27):
the college situation, like kids getting
into college, it's socompetitive right now awful.
Like my, like, my 17 year oldagain, like trying to get this
SAT score that's like,astronomical, and you're like,
Laura, I got like, I don't knowwhat you got on your SAT, but
you're like, I got into everycollege I applied for back in
the day, right? I do. And soit's like the noose is
tightening on these kids. Iagree every angle.
Colette Fehr (40:50):
And I took the SAT once, like hung over and didn't
have and I was like, it's goodenough for wherever I want to
go. Like the stress on thesekids at a young age, it's not
healthy. So okay, let's likesummarize this with some
takeaways, and also remember togo to insights from the
couch.org because we're going tohave a little worksheet of some
(41:12):
of these top line points thatcan help you if you're in this
phase of life with your kids.
But I think one of the majortakeaways is that connection is
your greatest influence. Build agood relationship with your kid.
Listen, ask questions, engage,be present, because if you have
a strong connection, they'regoing to come to you, and then
(41:32):
you're going to be able totroubleshoot for the things that
really matter, like when it hasto do with health or safety,
Laura Bowman (41:41):
I totally agree.
Stay collaborative. If you'reteaching and preaching, you are
just, like, on the wrong track.
I mean, and even, like, ifyou've really messed this up,
like, try to reset by justspending some time doing
something enjoyable with yourkids. Like, yes, especially if
younger kids just see if youcan, like, get on their level. I
have a client who startedplaying Pokemon Go with their
(42:03):
teenage son, and it's been likeso bonding. That's awesome. And
get out of that power struggleand get out of that teaching
mode, because it'll paydividends, because they will
come to
Colette Fehr (42:14):
you later agreed, and then use discernment pick
your battles. Really,
Laura Bowman (42:21):
everything needs an antibiotic, right, right? And
not
Colette Fehr (42:24):
everything needs rigid rules and control, yeah,
right. It doesn't all have to gothe way you want it to. But when
it comes to safety, health oryour core values, if you're
afraid that your kid is at risk,that's when you need to
intervene. And sometimes we doneed to say no, and you may not
understand why. I might try toexplain to you, but you might
(42:46):
not understand or agree, andsometimes I'm the parent and I
have to intercede for reasonsyou don't yet understand. But
for other things, let kids havethat big corral and that long
leash, and let them make somemistakes and help them to learn
to develop their own judgment byasking questions and guiding
(43:07):
them to the place where they canfigure it out for themselves.
Yeah,
Laura Bowman (43:10):
it's their life at the end of the day, you are a
guide. You are a Sherpa. It isnot your second shot at life
your kids, right?
Colette Fehr (43:19):
It's not about you. It's not about you. And you
know, that's a great point toend on, Laura, is that
adolescence is as much for achild to separate from the
parent as a parent to start toseparate from the child. Your
child is not a mini you. Iactually hate that whole thing
where parents there's this wholething about parents living
(43:40):
vicariously through theirchildren that also didn't exist
in previous generations the wayit does today. Your children are
independent people, and if yourwhole identity is wrapped up in
your kid and their achievements,you need to seriously check
yourself.
Laura Bowman (43:55):
Yeah, and, and just on that note too, is like
when you start that, like,because kids can get really
aggravating and difficulttowards the end, like, in the
17, 1819, year old phase, itcan, it can get annoying around
here. I think I've mentioned iton the podcast before, but that
is the natural pulling away of,like, I've had enough of this
(44:17):
dynamic. I'm ready to be my ownperson. I'm not quite there, but
it's like, it's like, that kidis being born into the world.
It's like, labor, yeah? But, youknow, at this phase and, and
really, it's our job to be ableto let them go when they're
ready. Yep,
Colette Fehr (44:33):
you're the OB, deliver the baby into the world.
Yeah, right, deliver yourteenager. You're ushering them
into the world. You're not goingalong for the ride,
Laura Bowman (44:43):
and you're staying steady like the horse whisperer.
If they come back, you're there,yeah? And they can, and if
you're there, they can move backand forth. You're the secure
base exactly in and out of it,yeah? But you're not clinging,
right? And one,
Colette Fehr (44:57):
I'm gonna Google that scene, but one final. Point
again that we want to make isregulate your emotions. Learn to
regulate your emotions. Yourkids learn by what you model.
Help them learn to regulatetheirs, their future
relationships, well, thank you,because I see the consequence. I
know you do too, but my God andcouples therapy, that's all I
(45:18):
see. Lack of ability to regulateemotions and handle conflict. So
help kids with that. There arereal things we need to be doing
as parents, and it's not getyour kid into the apex college,
because, guess what, none ofthat shit really matters that
much anymore. Your kid's gonnabe successful if they're gonna
be successful for other reasons,not because they have like, an
(45:39):
Ivy League or whatever.
Meanwhile, those schools are allimploding. Okay, on that note,
another show, another show. Yes,why? The Ivy League is now
irrelevant. So we, again, we aregoing to have a download on the
website that pertains to thisepisode, insights from the
couch.org. We are so grateful toall of you for listening. We
hope you found value in this,and if you did, please take a
(46:01):
second to go on Apple podcastsand give us a five star review,
or whatever stars you think wedeserve. Leave a comment that
helps our podcast get into thehands of many more people who
might benefit from this advice.
And
Laura Bowman (46:17):
yeah. And final note, like we could talk about
this all day. And if there's apart that you want us to zoom in
on on this conversation, drop usa line. If you want us to say
more. I know we could go deep onany one of these things in
adolescence. Yeah,
Colette Fehr (46:32):
if you have questions, yeah, you can message
us through our website or sendus an email to info at insights
from the couch.org, thank you somuch for being here, and we'll
be back next week with anothergreat episode and more insights
from our couch.
Unknown (46:48):
Bye, guys. You.
Welcome back to insights from the couch. Today
we're diving into raising andsurviving tweens and teens. So
if you're a parent and you'vegot kids in that age, God knows
what it really is now, evenmaybe 1110, or 11 to 18, this
episode is for you. We're goingto explore how to discern when
(00:25):
you should intervene, what thebest parenting strategies are
for keeping your sanity, becausethis is a difficult stage of
parenting, especially in today'sworld. And don't forget to go to
our website, insights from thecouch.org, to download a
worksheet that will help youwith tips to survive this phase
(00:45):
of life. Let's dive in, Laura.
We've got a lot to say aboutthis.
Laura Bowman (00:50):
Oh my god. I guess I first want to say, like, not
all tweens and teens are thesame. So I think that this
exists on a continuum with somereally, really tough problems
that parents face in this phase.
I mean, you can run in headlonginto addiction in this age. You
can have eating disorders you'redealing with. You can have
(01:12):
bullying. You can have reallycomplex learning issues. You can
have mental health concerns thatare burgeoning, that you don't
really understand what you'reseeing. So and then some kids
are really, I mean, God, I hateto use the word normal, typical.
And parents are like, I don'tknow. This was not that hard.
And even in families, if youhave enough kids, you're going
(01:35):
to get a little bit ofeverything. So I just want to be
compassionate to people whoreally are pushed
Colette Fehr (01:44):
to their wits end at this phase. Yeah. And maybe
also, we could begin by twothings come to mind to me. First
of all, developmentally, whatthis phase is with the brain?
Even, you know, many people haveheard, I'm sure, that the brain
is not fully developed, but it'sreally true. And this is
(02:04):
supposed to be a stage wherekids try things, make mistakes
and learn, and that's reallyconsistent with the development
of the brain. Kids don't have afully formed prefrontal cortex
during this time. In fact, it'snot fully formed until the early
to mid 20s, so kids still needparental guidance, but they also
(02:27):
need some space to make mistakesand learn on their own, and that
is really the best thing parentscan do during this phase, is to
focus on guidance rather thancontrol. The second thing I want
to highlight before we dive incompletely is that this is a
very different time from when weas Gen X women were growing up.
(02:49):
Back then, it used to be thatkids went through almost the
teenage rebellion, the teenageequivalent of a midlife crisis,
when developmentally kids wereseparating from parents, and for
many of us with boomer parents,this was just a total rejection
of our parents, outrighteverything they thought they
(03:10):
knew their culture. We wantednothing to do with them. We
were, you know, sneaking out ofthe house, making out with boys
or girls or whatever else,experimented with drugs and
alcohol, sometimes telling ourparents to fuck off. Or maybe
I'm just speaking for myself,because I was definitely my most
(03:30):
rambunctious and rebelliousduring the tween years. But in
today's world, the landscape haschanged, and kids, in fact, one
of the bigger struggles is thatkids don't really know how to
connect. They lack socialskills. They're anxious. We know
from Jonathan hates book, theanxious generation. This is one
of the biggest problems. So it'snot kids, you know, racing off
(03:53):
and rejecting their parentsanymore, a stage that was
difficult for parents, but weknew would end, and kids would
kind of even out for most kids.
Now it's this anxiety, this lackof social development, and then
also the world we live in isscarier than ever, and the
problems are really complex anddifferent with AI, with a lack
(04:15):
of connection, right? I mean,it's social media. You're
Laura Bowman (04:21):
like, depressing me as you're talking. I'm like,
there are so many issues. It'slike, squirrel, squirrel. Like,
right? I mean, as parents, it'sso easy to live in, like, such a
heightened state of anxiety, oflike, what am I supposed to be
doing? Absolutely,
Colette Fehr (04:36):
and I don't know about you, but during my kids
are now 21 and Charlotte will be24 on Wednesday, which blows my
mind. But the tween years wereharder for me, in a way. The
middle school years, just like Iwas, were harder for me with my
girls, than the teen years, butI did feel in a constant state
of anxiety, whether it was theywere going to their first party
(04:58):
and what was going to go on. Herworries about sexual assault. As
a mother of two daughters whenthey first started driving, and
I've laughed with you about thisa million times, I would follow
because Charlotte was the firsther blue dot down, I four and
literally think I was having apanic attack picturing cars
smashing into her at every atevery mile I know. So there's a
(05:20):
lot just even in the normalrealm. Not to mention, how do we
help kids navigate social mediathat is hijacking brains for the
worse?
Laura Bowman (05:31):
Okay, there's so much to talk about. Like, where
do we start? I mean, I I want tostart. I love the the term, and
I say this a lot in therapy islike, I subscribe, and I think
you do too. I feel like we'realigned on this, yes to the long
leash, large corral, theory ofparenting, laissez faire, yeah.
(05:51):
Like, I see it as, like, a hugeI've got, there's guardrails.
They're like, I'm watching. I'mpaying attention. But they are
playing at the swimming pool.
I'm like checking to make sureno one's drowning, but I am very
much allowing all of my kids tobe who they are. Yeah, are you
the same on that?
Colette Fehr (06:13):
Oh my gosh, absolutely. I think that this is
one of the tragedies of thistime, is that's what's getting
lost, and we talked about thisbefore in our episode on like
helicopter and lawn mowerparenting. Yeah, parents who not
only hover but the lawn mowerphenomenon being remove every
obstacle. It's really actuallydangerous for your child in the
(06:36):
long term, because they don'tdevelop any problem solving
skills and they can't navigatethe world. In fact, let me give
one example. Charlotte's goingto be 24 okay? So I believe in
this mentality that we'retalking about, and yet, as a mom
who the thing I care about mostin this world is my kids, and I
think every parent would wouldrelate to that, right? Nothing
(06:59):
else really matters to me at theend of the day, and in my head,
I believe in this, in my heartand in my nervous system, I
sometimes struggle with it, evenlittle things like I'm trying to
Charlotte's coming to meet mefor something this weekend. I've
bought her a plane ticket. Shehas to switch planes. She's 24 I
got married at 24 Okay, yeah,but Charlotte also has dyslexia
(07:22):
and ADHD, and I'm not makingexcuses, but there are things
where I worry about her gettingto the airport not seeing the
wrong time on the ticket. So Ifound myself yesterday going
like, Oh my God, I've got to,like, figure out all her flights
and download her boarding pass.
And then I was like, What thehell am I doing? Like, I need to
help her, give her a little bitof information, give her some
(07:45):
guidance on what to do, becauseagain, this will be harder for
her than it might be for someother 24 year old. And then, you
know what? If she misses theflight, she misses the flight,
she's got to learn. Andprobably, if she heard this,
which she never will. She'd belike, Are you kidding me, Mom, I
can download my own boardingpass, right? This is less her
lack of capability than myworry. Yeah. And that's the
(08:08):
thing, you know, like, Iremember, like, when I was
growing up, my mom would always,like, as soon as you had, like,
a scratchy throat, she's like,you need an antibiotic. I mean,
I think my mom thinks, like, youneed an antibiotic for literally
every bag for everything. She'slike, well, better to know what
you lived from than what youdied from, you know, like, you
know, just, like, she justthinks the investor was the
(08:29):
thing, yeah? And, like, I alwaysdid this thing, and she just
couldn't stand me doing thiswith the kids, where I'd like,
see that they were getting alittle, like, under the weather,
and I would take this wait andsee approach, yeah. Like, will
this resolve? Like, is this likea virus, see thing, or, like, do
I really need to take them tothe doctor because they've got
like, a raging fever, and it'slike, my metaphor is, can you do
(08:52):
the same thing with your kids inthese in this phase of life? Can
you watch? Can you take a beatand go. I'm not sure which
direction this is going to go,but I'm going to stay attuned to
it and have some instinctsaround what to do next without
flooding the zone with likeantibiotic or rescue or, you
know, preempt, right, right? AndI think part of it is training
(09:17):
yourself, because really at thisstage. And we want to give you
guys some things to focus on aswomen who are sort of through
this phase for the most part,both of us, even though you're a
little bit maybe 17, yeah, soyou're almost there, then
you're, in a way, really out ofthe worst time. But we want to
give you a couple things toreally think about and focus on
(09:39):
things I wish I knew during thatphase that would have helped me,
and also just kind of synthesizea couple points, and one of
them, I think, is really not toconfuse control with guidance. I
hear so many parents as atherapist and even out in the
world really micromanaging.
(10:00):
Children, and what we reallywant to do in this phase is
equip them with a good valuesystem and help them support
them in learning how to makegood decisions. And if we rush
in and make all the decisionsfor them, whether it's whisking
them off to the doctor orsetting such hard, rigid rules
(10:20):
around things that perhaps don'tmatter that much, we're going to
really, like, clip our kids andhamper their ability to navigate
the adult world.
Laura Bowman (10:30):
Yeah, and I think the how on that is, like, really
this, like, Socraticcollaboration method, right?
It's not like you, because Ithink that you can get into this
cycle with your kids when youranxiety is high, stakes are high
sometimes at kids of lecturing,teaching, preaching, you know,
(10:50):
instructing in this. Like, whatyou really need to do now is you
need to do this. So you need todo that. And I can't believe you
haven't thought about this, youwill get, like, strong, armed by
your kid at a certain point,they will tune you out. They
will keep you out of their lifeif they if they feel too much of
this coming
Colette Fehr (11:05):
to towards and they won't turn to you in times
of need, no,
Laura Bowman (11:09):
because it's to this. It's too much, it's too
hard. You know, they know thatyour anxiety is going to get
triggered, and then they're justgoing to be dealing with that.
Colette Fehr (11:18):
Or they know they're going to get lectured,
yeah, yeah, so instead of likebecause I said so or this is
what you need to do, I'm tellingyou I know more than you. Let's
talk about why this matters,right? Let's talk about Teach
them why something is importantand like anything. I love your
point about the Socratic method,it's a great way. That's where
(11:39):
you ask questions, and then youask questions about the
questions for those people whomay not be familiar with that
term, and you really helpsomebody get to their own truth.
It's so much more powerful thandictating something the brain
just doesn't engage the sameway. How amazing if you could
empower your children to come tosome kind of fundamental truth
(12:03):
on their own while you'reproviding those guardrails, and
your best friend in thesemoments is going to be your
ability to listen with nonjudgmental curiosity.
Laura Bowman (12:15):
You are going to just keep your mouth shut.
You're going to ask a wellplaced question, and then you're
just gonna fall back and listenwith interest. Let
Colette Fehr (12:23):
me tell you something. I have one little
quickie story you've probablyheard. I will not say which
daughter to protect the privacy,but one time during I don't
remember exactly how old she shewas, but I was in New York with
one of my daughters in the car.
I have no idea where we weregoing, and I was driving on the
West Side Highway. I will neverforget it. And this daughter was
(12:46):
at an age where I think I wasn'tprepared to have this kind of
conversation, but I wasnavigating a conversation about
this daughter becoming sexuallyactive with a long time boy.
Remember that? Yeah. And so Istarted asking questions because
I wanted to see what was goingon make sure there was safety.
And I got a lot more than Ibargained for. I mean, I heard
(13:08):
about, like, orgasms, positions,and I'm driving, and my daughter
said these things with suchtrust and faith and nonchalance.
And on the one hand, I'm going,This is so great, ripping the
steering wheel, gripping thewheel like this. I'm in the left
lane. People are passing me,which, if you know me, I would
(13:31):
never allow to happen. And I'mjust like, Uh huh, uh huh. I'm
like, Okay, well, so that orgasmwasn't so great, or you haven't
had one yet, and I'm justthinking, in a million years, my
mother, until she hears thispodcast, still doesn't know I
have sex and I have two kids.
What is happening?
Laura Bowman (13:50):
You're the Virgin Mary. I'm the brightest next
Colette Fehr (13:53):
Immaculate Conception. You know, like, it's
just not generationally ascommon. I think. Yeah, to give
explicit details about suchintimacies, but you want your
kid to come to you with thatstuff, because you do know more
than them, and you are able todiscern for safety, that's
what's most important.
Laura Bowman (14:15):
No, I mean, and you can't, like fake or you, you
can't construct a relationshipthat isn't there. So, like,
that's such a testament to theeverything that came before it,
yeah, that she knew she could beso honest with you, yeah?
Because a lot of kids, by thisphase, are hiding their life,
yeah. Mom can't handle this. Momwon't know to do with this. I
(14:37):
would be so embarrassed to saythis in front of her, yeah? So I
think it's, you know, go backand listen to our good mother
episode, because that's wherethe foundation of this is. Do
you provide safety for yourkids? Are you? Are you
interested in them? Do they knowthat you have their back,
Colette Fehr (14:54):
right? And can you? This is where I think the
non judgmental curiosity is key.
And let me be clear. Earlier,and I know this is true for you
too. We're not advocating whenwe talk about long leash,
laissez faire, and it's nothingleft no and it's not a lack of
consequences when children makea mistake. This is not to say
don't discipline. In fact, oneof the problems in today's world
(15:14):
is that there's probably toolittle discipline, but you want
to create a space where kidsfeel comfortable opening up, and
if there are consequences, theyunderstand why, as much as
possible, and they have someagency in their own lives. If I
heard something where my kidswere breaking a rule, then there
would have to be some kind ofconsequence for that. But I do
(15:37):
think because I managed, eventhough I'm the most expressive
person without a poker face,I've listened to some shit that,
like, I can't believe I keptkept a straight face where I was
thinking, Oh my God, I want to,like, take my kid, lock them in
the basement, even though wedon't have basements in Florida,
and not let them out tillThey're 27
Laura Bowman (16:00):
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, just back to, like,
consequences. I think a lot oftimes when, when there's a need
to punish, quote, unquote, it'sreally that like a kid has a
lack of skills. You know, I havea son that can sometimes get
really angry and like it cues tome, like he does not know how to
regulate his emotions aroundcertain things and like he's got
(16:22):
to get out of my house with someskills, you know, and that's to
me, like, what I'm always tryingto instill in my kids is when I
see these deficits, or when Isee like something that maybe
another parent would have aninstinct to punish. It's cueing
me like, What do I still need tohelp them learn, help cultivate,
(16:44):
yeah, and not in a preachy way,because it's not going to go in
that way, but in a way, like,Okay, this is still a thing, and
in a collaborative
Colette Fehr (16:51):
way. And I'm collaborative, yeah, yeah. And
I'm so right. You're theexecutive subsystem. You're the
parent. This isn't like equalwe're besties, but you're there
providing guidance, teachingthis kid and their developing
brain how they're going to startto navigate the adult world.
This is what adolescence issupposed to be about, and I'm so
(17:14):
glad you used that example,because I was going to say I was
thinking about this, if I couldtell a parent of a tween or
teen, what I think one of themost important things you could
do for your children is it wouldbe to learn to regulate your
freaking emotions and teach themhow to do it, and
Laura Bowman (17:33):
then, of course, that you lead by example, like
there is nothing like if youcan't regulate your emotions. I
mean, I have a kid right nowthat I work with where he can't
regulate his emotions, and hisfather can't regulate his
emotions, and the two of themare just like banging up against
each other, but it's like, howcan you teach something that you
don't have right now in thatsystem, it's just two angry,
(17:57):
dysregulated people, yeah,
Colette Fehr (17:59):
yeah. And I feel like I'm so passionate about
this for a couple of reasons.
One, as a couple's therapist,the lack of ability to regulate
emotions causes so much chaos.
In fact, most of the chaos andit's hard because couples,
right, are constantly pushing oneach other's fight or flight
systems. But regardless, theprimary task, in my opinion of
(18:21):
emotional maturity and being anadult is knowing how to regulate
your emotions. And I say thiswith a soft spot for any of you
who struggle with that, becauseI struggle with that. I am a
very passionate, emotionalperson in my younger years. I
mean, I'm quick to get overstuff, but I feel everything
intensely. I used to throw shit,freak out, scream, say things. I
(18:45):
mean, there are moments, but Ihave really learned to manage my
emotions to a degree thatsometimes even I'm shocked by
even though I was yelling at mymicrophone as we got onto this
podcast. That doesn't count. Butyes, and I feel like this is the
best skill. And to your point,kids learn the most, in a way,
(19:08):
by what's modeled for them. Soif you're lashing out in anger,
your kid is learning, and theymay also be genetically
predisposed to this, if it's atrait, form of anger instead of
a state form of anger. You knowthey're gonna say, Okay, I guess
this is okay. And not only mightthey do that to others in their
lives as an adult, but they mayseek partners and friends who
(19:32):
treat them badly and think it'sokay because of how mom or dad
acted.
Laura Bowman (19:39):
Yeah. I mean, you know what it reminds me of, like
this whole emotional regulation,if you back to my long leash,
large corral, let's use anotherhorse metaphor. Have you seen
the horse whisperer? No, wait,
Colette Fehr (19:50):
the movie from a million years ago? Yeah. I read
the book. Yes. Okay with RobertRedford.
Laura Bowman (19:55):
The scene where the, you know, the horse is
traumatized, the horse isfreaking out. Out the Kristen
Scott Thomas character is, like,eager to get the horse under
control, right? It breaks freefrom this, like, wherever it is,
and like, runs off into thefield. And this is, you know, in
this example, that's like theadolescent, like, ah, and the
(20:15):
Robert Redford character, justlike, walks into the field and,
like, sits there and just stays,like all day, till that horse
decides, like, you're steadyenough that I can trust you, I'm
gonna follow you. And then tome, that's the parent. Can you
(20:37):
steady yourself in these stormsenough that, like, the that
child is, like, you got me, it'smaking you emotional. It is
because, like,
Colette Fehr (20:46):
it's everything I know, and it's hard to do,
Laura Bowman (20:49):
and it's like, so few people get that. So few
people get a person who can staythat calm and that steady in
such emotional moments. The normis that it we ricochet off of
each other, and then the parentsall frazzled, and then the kid
feels like, oh geez. And it'slike, I think everybody should
(21:10):
watch that movie, that scene, ifthey would like to know how
you're really going to, youknow, steady your kid. You gotta
steady
Colette Fehr (21:18):
yourself. I am not surprised to see tears in your
eyes when you say this, becauseit is the greatest gift of
adolescence to be that steady,consistent presence and to allow
your child with that developingbrain what comes with it, that
emotional ability. They're goingto be all over the place, their
affect, they lack emotionalregulation at that place, and
(21:41):
some kids more than others. Butif you can be there, and instead
of being reactive and gettinginto a negative cycle where
every argument escalates, if youcan be the steady presence, you
have your lines, you're notgoing to compromise on but
because they're freaking out,you don't freak out back. You're
both modeling and creating thatsafety and that trust, and
(22:04):
you're you're setting, notsetting an example. You are
creating the heart of secureattachment that children will
then look for in their adultrelationships.
Laura Bowman (22:15):
Yes, ah, it's everything. It's everything,
everything you want to be aneffective parent, right there?
Yes. And
Colette Fehr (22:23):
if you are having trouble regulating your
emotions, go to therapy. Like,yeah. It's worth it,
Laura Bowman (22:29):
because some parents and kids are not great
fits. We've talked about thisbefore, but like, there will be
some kids that just push you,push on vulnerable parts of you,
undeveloped parts of you, oldparts of you, and it's just like
you're you're pulled intoactivation so much quicker than
you'd want to be, and that'swhere and I have, I have clients
(22:51):
that have come to therapy forthat reason, and they're amazing
for getting ahead of that.
Colette Fehr (22:56):
I've struggled with one child more than the
other in terms of my ownregulation. Ironically, the kid
who's more like me is the one.
It's always like that, right?
Oh, we can escalate so we'resuper close, but it is just, she
pushes my buttons. I push herbuttons. Oh, yeah, it's
challenging. I mean, I
Laura Bowman (23:16):
want to talk about like also that it's really
confusing sometimes, as even asa person who's really attuned to
their kids, like, I feel likechildren develop like Polaroids,
you know, like the polaroidphoto where it's like, you don't
know quite what you're lookingat as it's drying, as it's
setting up. And I see this even,like, I've had clients where
they've missed like that theirchild had a real serious anxiety
(23:40):
disorder, and the kid was very,very angry, like, you didn't
catch this. And the parents werelike, we didn't know what we
were looking at. And it's veryeasy as these developmental
stages go along to go, oh, thisis just this phase, or this just
these friends, or it's just thisweird school, or they didn't
feel this way there. And thenafter you see 25 years of the
(24:04):
chain laid out, you're finallyable to go, oh, this is what it
is. And so I think we have tohave compassion for ourselves,
watching these Polaroids developand and like going, Okay, I I
only had the information I hadat the time, and I had to make
the best decision at the time,and and that we know more as
(24:26):
more time goes on, about whatthe core issues are with our
kids, strengths, weaknesses,everything.
Colette Fehr (24:32):
Yeah, that's so true. And I think the Polaroid
metaphor is perfect. It'sbeautiful. It really brings it
to life. But you know what I'malso thinking as you say, this
is that one of the dangers, youknow, we're therapists, so we're
more aware of some of what theissues might be. It doesn't make
it any easier to parent. I'm notsaying we have a leg up, just
(24:54):
more information about some ofthe things that some people
might so let's say our kidsstruggling with anxiety. We
might be more prone to spot thatand know what it is
diagnostically and seek help forit, even potentially. But one of
the dangers is that you're in avacuum with your own kids, and
you don't really know,especially if you have one child
(25:15):
or the other is younger, youdon't really have a lot to
compare against in terms ofwhat's normal. I don't mean from
a like an okay aboutpersonality, but I mean about is
your child struggling withsomething that they really need
additional help and resources?
And I would say err on the sideof caution, and even if it's
(25:35):
something like where you go talkto a therapist for one session,
or do research or something,talk to somebody who is an
expert in that field if you dosuspect something, because
getting a child help earlier canmake such a huge difference in
the trajectory of their life.
Laura Bowman (25:57):
Yeah, and I think there are certain situations
that you have to, like, reallyget active in. I mean, I'm
thinking anything with, like,addiction setting up. I'm
thinking certain learning issuesthat really require parenting,
health, safety,
Colette Fehr (26:15):
safety and health being first and foremost, right?
Those are not the place to go.
Sure. You know, back in the day,I'm thinking about it, my
parents still don't know halfthe stuff that I went running
around doing because I'd lieabout where I was. There was no
way to track anyone. And, youknow, I'm dancing on the bar at
a club doing shots at 16.
(26:35):
Parents
Laura Bowman (26:35):
live without, like, life 360 well, like, I
refresh that. Like I'm alwayslooking like, oh, where? Oh,
this one's driving, Okay, thisone's still at school. Like,
yeah, that has given me so muchpeace of mind, yeah. Well, I
feel so sorry for
Colette Fehr (26:49):
our parents. Me too, especially since I was
constantly like, I'm sleeping atso and so's house, and then I
was in the city lying and sayingI was eight years older than I
was engaging in, really what Ilook back on. You know, I felt
very savvy and mature, but I wasdoing I wasn't doing anything
that bad. I wasn't sleeping withanyone. I wasn't doing drugs. I
(27:12):
was just like wanting to bemischievous and exercise my
budding personality. But I wasputting myself into situations
that as a parent. Now I'm like,oh my god,
Laura Bowman (27:24):
I could have, would you have intervened on
you? Yes, oh my god, yes, Iwould like, what would you have
done with you as a parent? Oh,
Colette Fehr (27:34):
it's so hard because So the approach of like,
we're gonna lock you down kindof thing or talk about fit with
parenting. If I had a sternparent who was like my way, I
would not I would have just beenrebelled more. And I saw that in
my first Catholic schoolexperience, where, when I went
to a different Catholic school,where they understood my spirit
(27:58):
and they didn't try to crush it,but they did hold guardrails. I
really thrived in that. So Ithink my parents did a really
pretty good job, because theydid confront things, what they
knew about, but they didn't.
They never crushed my spirit.
However, I think that, you know,I can't really fault them. They
(28:20):
just didn't know what theydidn't know. And I was hard to
stop, you know, you'd say oneconsequence, and then I find a
way around it. And almost, itwasn't really like, Oh, I'm
gonna just break the rules. Itwas just, I just wanted to,
like, try things. You know, mymom went away and she said, the
one thing you cannot be herewhile I'm gone stay with your
(28:43):
dad. I didn't like that, and shewould lock the house up like
Fort Knox. There was no way in.
I mean, it was bull. Shewouldn't give me the key, and
that pissed me off. So beforeshe left, I went through this
elaborate ruse with friends, andI pushed a screen out of the
second floor window so that andI left it unlocked. And after
(29:03):
she left, we took a ladder,brought over to the house in
someone else's truck, propped itup. My friend Jimmy crawled
through the window, and then wehad people over. It was supposed
to just be 20 people, but ofcourse, what happens to a
teenage party? And then thepolice were called, and it
(29:25):
turned into a whole big thing.
But if my mom had just she, didshe find
Laura Bowman (29:31):
out? And like, Oh yeah, yeah. So what was that
conversation? Like
Colette Fehr (29:36):
them yelling at me and beat me, being like, well,
that's what you get for nottrusting me.
Laura Bowman (29:44):
But the problem is, and I just is where I have,
like, empathy for all parents,myself included, is like, you
just don't know which way someof these behaviors go, right?
Like, obviously you've turnedout just fine, right? Like,
you're an incredible adult, butyou worry. Like, is this the
kind of stuff that foreshadowslike, this could be it like,
(30:05):
having real problems, you know,breaking society's rules,
getting into, like, a dangeroussituation, right? You don't
know. You don't know. And that'sthe Polaroid of it all. Like,
what am I watching right
Colette Fehr (30:18):
now? So true. And you know what the ski this is
where I think the reality oftoday's world comes into play
too, because not that thereweren't serious consequences
then, I mean, I could have beenraped and killed a million times
over. It really some of thestuff I was doing wasn't good.
And again, I was a straight Astudent. I didn't do drugs. I
drank, but socially, never inexcess. I drank more as an adult
(30:40):
than I drank as a kid. So in away, I wasn't really that bad,
but I was definitely testing thewaters. And you didn't know, in
fact, a lot of my friend'sparents, I think, thought I was
like a wild child during thattime, and might have wondered if
I would turn out to be such aresponsible, conscientious
(31:02):
adult, and the stakes now feeleven higher, like it feels so
dangerous to let your kid roamand do and part of it is back
then, we didn't have a choice.
We didn't have life 360 youknow, we weren't so involved in
college and all of these stages.
So now we know a lot, and itfeels like our kids can be
(31:26):
ruined if we're not on top ofeverything. That's what I think
is so terrifying for people.
Laura Bowman (31:33):
It is, but also what I'm I don't know if you've
heard some of this, one of thoseguys that I follow is talking
about how, like, kids don'tdrink anymore, yes, and that
it's not that's not like theysmoke pot, but like they're
numbing out, but they're notconnecting. Like, drinking is a
little bit different social,more social, and so like, in
some ways, you had, like, it'salmost a protective factor that
(31:57):
you were so social, and then youwere like, also, like, so
capable in school, yeah, and,and so in some ways, you weren't
as risky as you seemed, right,right? And some of the scarier
things these days, it's like,the withdrawing, the isolation,
the lack of like, feeling likeyou're viable on any front. What
(32:18):
is
Colette Fehr (32:18):
that? I totally agree with you, Laura. And of
course, because look at howgreat I turned out. No, I'm
kidding. But like, what's thatterm I just learned for a kid
who sits in the room all day andplays on an INCEL No, no, no,
but let's talk about thatbriefly. But no, there's another
term. It's something for a kidwho's in the room all day on
(32:39):
video games, which we know is athing. And then let's talk about
the INCEL thing for a moment,because the show adolescence
came out on Netflix not longago. Oh my gosh. And that is a
real one of many, not to mentionfentanyl trafficking, right? All
of the big, scary things thatcan happen that we we really
can't troubleshoot for. I mean,you can't be on top of your kid
(33:03):
and walk them like a dog on aleash, but adolescence, and I
don't want to give any spoilers,but shows this kid. It's a four
part show that was shot incontinuous form. It's so
powerful. The acting is amazing,and it shows this little boy.
He's Tiny, he's 13 years old.
He's so vulnerable, and he'saccused of killing a classmate,
a female classmate, in a rage.
(33:28):
And what we come to find is thatthere was some bullying going on
by this girl, and he really wasdeveloping in that INCEL, that
radicalized, angry INCELmindset. And you see this kid
the
Laura Bowman (33:41):
manosphere? Yes, yes. So scary red
Colette Fehr (33:45):
pill stuff and all the it's really scary that this
is happening to and so many ofthis these kids. They're not
sociopaths. They're being theirbrains, their fragile, spongy
brains, are being inculcatedwith radicalized ideas that
justify violence and anger, anda lot of it is coming from
(34:07):
disconnection and technology,yeah,
Laura Bowman (34:10):
and this is, it's so good that you brought this up
because I I'm not heavy handedon almost anything, as we know,
large leash, large, yeah, youknow, long leash, large corral.
But I think the social mediathing, I think we're just about
ready to get this right bytaking phones out of schools,
not letting social kids havesocial media till 16. I agree. I
actually think that's brilliant.
I think we've really fuckedwith, like, a whole generation
(34:35):
of kids brains. I agree, and Ido not know where that's headed
but I think we've got this islike a public health emergency.
And I to, you know, to makeadolescents healthier, we have
to get social media into its
Colette Fehr (34:51):
proper place. I completely agree. I think it's
difficult to put the toothpasteback in the tube as a society,
but we have to try. And I'mwholeheartedly for the no phones
in schools. I mean, I think thisshould be enforced more strictly
than anything, because we knowwhat it does to the forming
brain, much less even ourbrains, right? My god, yeah,
(35:12):
hijacks your attention span. Andthat's just the beginning.
That's the very tip of theiceberg. But it's really almost
abusive to subject kids to thekind of conditioning and the
emotional experiences they haveas a result of social media when
they do not have thedevelopmental capacity to handle
(35:33):
those emotions, the rejection,the betrayal, the ostracization,
the bullying. I mean, thinkabout it. When we were young,
you did not have droves of 10year olds, nine and 10 year olds
dying by suicide. That is insaneand that is coming from social
media, because the influence isso pervasive and so deep. Yeah,
Laura Bowman (35:54):
it's so potent coming toward you at that age. I
mean, I remember, like, as akid, even going to school when,
like, friends would be mad atfriends would be mad at you.
Yes, but can you imagine if thatwas like the whole world on
online, yeah, like being gassedup online, where that's all
coming at you? Or
Colette Fehr (36:13):
imagine if you go, you pulled up a screen and you
saw everyone's at the party andyou weren't invited, not only do
you find out Monday, like wedid, oh, they had a sleepover
and didn't include me, and theytalked about you the whole time,
right? Which that actuallyhappened to me in the 70s. Yeah,
that's happened to me too. Oh,and I went to school and I was
(36:34):
like, fuck you. You're gonnaregret the day that you
ostracized me. But it was deep.
I
Laura Bowman (36:41):
wish I had taken that approach. It took me a
couple days to get
Colette Fehr (36:44):
there, but and then, of course, they apologized
and blah, blah, blah, and I tookthat. I'm still friends with a
lot of them to this day, right?
It happens, but imagine that'shappening and you see pictures
that hits you on a much deeperlevel. And what if, like this
boy in adolescence, what ifeverybody, not only are you
being bullied by one girl, butwhat if everybody's going on
(37:06):
social media calling you aloser, calling you names, this
kid who was adorable, came tobelieve he was the ugliest kid
in school, and that No girlwould ever like him, because
that's what he was told indroves on social media. So we
have to find some parameters forthis. And
Laura Bowman (37:26):
that's just, like, cute another a quick other
thought, yeah, I don't thinkkids realize, and especially in
that, like, tunnel vision oflike, you know, early
adolescence on social media, itjust feels like your life is
over. Obviously, that 13 yearold kids life is not, you know,
was just beginning, and hedidn't realize that. And that's,
you know, conversation I evenhad with my 17 year old recently
(37:49):
where he was, like, lamentingcertain things about his life,
and, like, worried about certainthings. And I was like, you just
don't realize how much runwayyou have you don't realize that
you're here at 17, but you haveno idea where this is gonna go
when you're 30. Like, do youremember that whole campaign
(38:11):
that they ran for gay kidscalled the It Gets Better
campaign? Yes, yes, of course,yeah. It was based on the fact
that, like, a lot of like, gaykids feel like, Oh, my God,
what's the point? Like, I don'teven, I can't even steal life
for myself. So these olderpeople who had, like, you know,
who are gay, like, did theselittle voice to camera things
(38:31):
where it was like, Look, it getsbetter. And let me tell you
about my life. And I think thatkids in these stages lack
vision, yeah, I mean, and thisis where we can serve a little
bit as their prefrontal cortexbring them some perspective. And
I gave my son, like, a good bitof perspective. I was like, let
me just tell you what this lookslike 10 years from now. I love
(38:54):
10 years from now. And you knowwhat he said? He's like, he's
like, Thank you, because hecouldn't come up with that.
Colette Fehr (38:59):
Yeah. You know, that really helps me as I'm
thinking about this, because Isee I'm seeing my daughters go
through anxiety about gettingjobs and careers and this poor
generation. I mean, even Gen X,I was reading an article
yesterday that like, we're sortof, we've sort of gotten screwed
by the current market economyand the dire state of the world
(39:21):
in our retirement. But thesekids are in this generation
where jobs are drying up. It'smore expensive than ever. You
know, unless you're the elitecoming out of these Ivy League
schools or you had a career pathfrom birth, it's, it's, there's
a lot of
Laura Bowman (39:37):
super savvy with your digital video, you know,
media issues, yeah, some ofthese kids are gonna Right. And,
Colette Fehr (39:43):
you know, I didn't figure out what I wanted to do
until my mid 30s, and I triedlots of careers and lots of
things. And, you know, I try totell my kids, but I'm gonna
circle back to this, like it'sokay, it's okay not to know. You
don't have to have your lifefigured out. Out in one second.
You know, it's okay to trysomething and it's not the
(40:04):
thing. I think there's so muchfear of making mistakes with
these kids, and maybe that'sanother polar opposite of how it
used to be. We messed up a lot.
I mean, I did have someconsequences. I got kicked out
of a school like, some stuffhappened that was not ideal for
me. Yeah, I mean, I learned
Laura Bowman (40:27):
the college situation, like kids getting
into college, it's socompetitive right now awful.
Like my, like, my 17 year oldagain, like trying to get this
SAT score that's like,astronomical, and you're like,
Laura, I got like, I don't knowwhat you got on your SAT, but
you're like, I got into everycollege I applied for back in
the day, right? I do. And soit's like the noose is
tightening on these kids. Iagree every angle.
Colette Fehr (40:50):
And I took the SAT once, like hung over and didn't
have and I was like, it's goodenough for wherever I want to
go. Like the stress on thesekids at a young age, it's not
healthy. So okay, let's likesummarize this with some
takeaways, and also remember togo to insights from the
couch.org because we're going tohave a little worksheet of some
(41:12):
of these top line points thatcan help you if you're in this
phase of life with your kids.
But I think one of the majortakeaways is that connection is
your greatest influence. Build agood relationship with your kid.
Listen, ask questions, engage,be present, because if you have
a strong connection, they'regoing to come to you, and then
(41:32):
you're going to be able totroubleshoot for the things that
really matter, like when it hasto do with health or safety,
Laura Bowman (41:41):
I totally agree.
Stay collaborative. If you'reteaching and preaching, you are
just, like, on the wrong track.
I mean, and even, like, ifyou've really messed this up,
like, try to reset by justspending some time doing
something enjoyable with yourkids. Like, yes, especially if
younger kids just see if youcan, like, get on their level. I
have a client who startedplaying Pokemon Go with their
(42:03):
teenage son, and it's been likeso bonding. That's awesome. And
get out of that power struggleand get out of that teaching
mode, because it'll paydividends, because they will
come to
Colette Fehr (42:14):
you later agreed, and then use discernment pick
your battles. Really,
Laura Bowman (42:21):
everything needs an antibiotic, right, right? And
not
Colette Fehr (42:24):
everything needs rigid rules and control, yeah,
right. It doesn't all have to gothe way you want it to. But when
it comes to safety, health oryour core values, if you're
afraid that your kid is at risk,that's when you need to
intervene. And sometimes we doneed to say no, and you may not
understand why. I might try toexplain to you, but you might
(42:46):
not understand or agree, andsometimes I'm the parent and I
have to intercede for reasonsyou don't yet understand. But
for other things, let kids havethat big corral and that long
leash, and let them make somemistakes and help them to learn
to develop their own judgment byasking questions and guiding
(43:07):
them to the place where they canfigure it out for themselves.
Yeah,
Laura Bowman (43:10):
it's their life at the end of the day, you are a
guide. You are a Sherpa. It isnot your second shot at life
your kids, right?
Colette Fehr (43:19):
It's not about you. It's not about you. And you
know, that's a great point toend on, Laura, is that
adolescence is as much for achild to separate from the
parent as a parent to start toseparate from the child. Your
child is not a mini you. Iactually hate that whole thing
where parents there's this wholething about parents living
(43:40):
vicariously through theirchildren that also didn't exist
in previous generations the wayit does today. Your children are
independent people, and if yourwhole identity is wrapped up in
your kid and their achievements,you need to seriously check
yourself.
Laura Bowman (43:55):
Yeah, and, and just on that note too, is like
when you start that, like,because kids can get really
aggravating and difficulttowards the end, like, in the
17, 1819, year old phase, itcan, it can get annoying around
here. I think I've mentioned iton the podcast before, but that
is the natural pulling away of,like, I've had enough of this
(44:17):
dynamic. I'm ready to be my ownperson. I'm not quite there, but
it's like, it's like, that kidis being born into the world.
It's like, labor, yeah? But, youknow, at this phase and, and
really, it's our job to be ableto let them go when they're
ready. Yep,
Colette Fehr (44:33):
you're the OB, deliver the baby into the world.
Yeah, right, deliver yourteenager. You're ushering them
into the world. You're not goingalong for the ride,
Laura Bowman (44:43):
and you're staying steady like the horse whisperer.
If they come back, you're there,yeah? And they can, and if
you're there, they can move backand forth. You're the secure
base exactly in and out of it,yeah? But you're not clinging,
right? And one,
Colette Fehr (44:57):
I'm gonna Google that scene, but one final. Point
again that we want to make isregulate your emotions. Learn to
regulate your emotions. Yourkids learn by what you model.
Help them learn to regulatetheirs, their future
relationships, well, thank you,because I see the consequence. I
know you do too, but my God andcouples therapy, that's all I
(45:18):
see. Lack of ability to regulateemotions and handle conflict. So
help kids with that. There arereal things we need to be doing
as parents, and it's not getyour kid into the apex college,
because, guess what, none ofthat shit really matters that
much anymore. Your kid's gonnabe successful if they're gonna
be successful for other reasons,not because they have like, an
(45:39):
Ivy League or whatever.
Meanwhile, those schools are allimploding. Okay, on that note,
another show, another show. Yes,why? The Ivy League is now
irrelevant. So we, again, we aregoing to have a download on the
website that pertains to thisepisode, insights from the
couch.org. We are so grateful toall of you for listening. We
hope you found value in this,and if you did, please take a
(46:01):
second to go on Apple podcastsand give us a five star review,
or whatever stars you think wedeserve. Leave a comment that
helps our podcast get into thehands of many more people who
might benefit from this advice.
And
Laura Bowman (46:17):
yeah. And final note, like we could talk about
this all day. And if there's apart that you want us to zoom in
on on this conversation, drop usa line. If you want us to say
more. I know we could go deep onany one of these things in
adolescence. Yeah,
Colette Fehr (46:32):
if you have questions, yeah, you can message
us through our website or sendus an email to info at insights
from the couch.org, thank you somuch for being here, and we'll
be back next week with anothergreat episode and more insights
from our couch.
Unknown (46:48):
Bye, guys. You.
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