June 18, 2025 • 38 mins
In this episode, we're taking a closer look at the science (and soul) of happiness—not that shiny, fake, “good vibes only” stuff, but the real-deal, research-backed version. After attending a powerful talk by Harvard professor and happiness expert Arthur C. Brooks, we came back buzzing with insights, and we couldn’t wait to break it all down for you.
We’re exploring what happiness actually means—spoiler: it’s not just about smiling all the time—and how much of it is actually within our control. From the surprising role of genetics to the transformational power of habits, transcendence, relationships, and creative work, we’re sharing key takeaways and offering practical, therapist-approved strategies to help you create a more meaningful, joyful, and resilient life.
Episode Highlights:
[0:47] - Our field trip to see Arthur C. Brooks live and why he's the happiness guy.
[1:37] - The surprising science: 50% of happiness is genetic—wait, what?!
[4:44] - Redefining happiness: Enjoyment, satisfaction, and meaning.
[6:11] - The real meaning of pleasure (hint: not just wine and cheese nights).
[9:10] - What satisfaction really means and why feeling effective is everything.
[11:12] - Meaning-making as a mental health superpower.
[13:06] - Resilience and post-traumatic growth: Turning lemons into lemonade.
[16:46] - Grappling with life’s big questions: “Why are you here?” and “What would you die for?”
[19:20] - Transcendence: Spirituality beyond religion and finding awe in everyday moments.
[22:27] - Flow state magic: What gets us into it (spoiler: puzzles and cleaning included!).
[27:51] - The #1 predictor of happiness: Relationships and why they matter so much.
[30:17] - The power of community and intentional connection.
[31:25] - Finding purpose in your work—however you define it.
[33:41] - The art of the “active dabble” and why it’s okay to not know what lights you up (yet).
[35:49] - Wrapping with wisdom: Radical responsibility and the risks of autonomy.
Resources:
- Arthur C. Brooks
- Download the “Risks of Autonomy” worksheet and other episode resources at insightsfromthecouch.org
Make sure to visit the “Resources” page on our website www.insightsfromthecouch.org to download the worksheet and take ways that accompany each episode. This is hugely important as we are now creating a download that is unique to each episode and working hard to create an email list to support our programming offerings moving forward.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Colette Fehr (00:03):
Laura, welcome to insights from the couch. I'm
Colette fair here with my cohost, Laura Bowman, we're
excited to talk with you againtoday about happiness, what
happiness really is, not thattoxic positivity, bullshit, real
happiness, and how you can havemore of it in your life based on
(00:23):
the brilliant research andteachings of Arthur C Brooks,
professor at Harvard University,you're going to want to hear
what we have to say, becausewe're going to boil it all down
into actionable items you canharness from this day forward to
live a more meaningful,fulfilling and happier life.
Laura Bowman (00:42):
Yay. This is the result of our field trip. We
took a field trip. Yes,
Colette Fehr (00:47):
we went to the DR Phillips Center for the
Performing Arts, which is herein Florida, where we live. And
Arthur C Brooks, who is thislegendary researcher on
happiness, right? He has hishe's had his own quest in life,
his own struggles withdepression, so he became curious
about, how can I be happier, andthis has led to a fruitful
(01:09):
career. I think he's published13 books, one with Oprah, yes,
the latest Oprah,
Laura Bowman (01:16):
he's no schlub, right top of the mountain, right
there. Yeah. And
Colette Fehr (01:20):
he's kind of one of the most well known happiness
experts, I suppose, in terms of,you know, what's the secret and
the art to happiness? So we wantto share what we learned with
you, and also our insights astherapists. Yeah. So
Laura Bowman (01:37):
one of the first things that I think I was
shocked to know is that 50% hesays that 50% of our happiness
is based on our genetic setpoints.
Colette Fehr (01:49):
It shocked you that it was that high or that
low?
Laura Bowman (01:51):
Yeah. I mean, I guess it doesn't. But which way,
which way higher was that high?
Colette Fehr (01:56):
Okay, see, I found it low. I was thinking it was
more like 80%
Laura Bowman (02:02):
really? Yes. I mean, that stands to reason,
because they've done all kindsof studies where it's like
people who've won the lottery orlost a limb, and then, you know,
they test them like a month out,90 days out, eventually,
happiness levels return tobaseline, which
Colette Fehr (02:22):
is fascinating.
And really, what we're sayinghere is that, yes, genetics play
a role, meaning that you have agenetic set point for happiness.
So, like, Laura's saying, youknow, if you win the lottery,
you're going to be thrilled. Imean, at least I would be for
that eventually, right? Maybe aweek. I think it's going to be
longer than that, I wonder whattime along you get like I think
I'd be pretty high for a while,but and just how many people I
(02:45):
would immediately tell to fuckoff like that alone would be so
joyous, seductive, yes. Butsince that's not happening
anytime soon, the reality is,even if I won the lottery and it
solved a lot of my problems Iwould soon return to however I
am. And as a therapist, sittingwith so many clients over the
years, you know, I've hadclients who have stage four
(03:07):
cancer, and their mindset is sopositive and powerful, not not
fake positive, like reallyseeing what's important in life,
that it's blown me away. AndI've learned so much from them.
And then I've had clients hadclients that, you know, their
garage door, and this is madeup, their garage door isn't
working, and they're just likein a state of complete, abject
(03:29):
despair. So a lot of it is howyou are. But the good news, and
what we want to talk about todayis that other 50% about 25% of
it, Dr Brooks says, iscircumstance, but the other 25%
is habits, habits of mind, howyou live your life. We actually
have a lot more control andagency over our mindset and how
(03:52):
we experience life than we maythink. And so we want to really
funnel into that part about whatwe can control, and leave you
with a couple of things thatcould be life changing.
Laura Bowman (04:06):
Yeah, that feels right. I think habits are that
beautiful place where you haveso much agency over your life
and making it better. Yes, I'veseen that in my own life. Just
having simple, simple habits areso grounding, like just walking,
yeah? Like, my walking habit isso huge
Colette Fehr (04:26):
Well, and that's actually been proven, that
walking clears the weeds in yourhead, it boosts mood. I mean,
walking is a freaking antidepressant that's not in a pill.
Yeah,
Laura Bowman (04:38):
go get a walking habit. But other habits too,
they're just very, verygrounding, right?
Colette Fehr (04:44):
So before we get into the habits, let's talk
about how Dr Brooks defineshappiness, because this may be
different than once, what somepeople imagine. And I just want
to say that I usually have thisvisceral reaction when people
talk about be happy. Be and bepositive. It feels faux and like
happiness. The true emotion ofhappiness is a fleeting state,
(05:08):
right? It's really joy, and it'snot meant to be. We don't live
in a state of permanent joy orhappiness. It's an emotion that
comes and goes, and when we haveit, we enjoy it, and then
there's struggle, and thenthere's moments of joy. But when
Brooks talks about happiness,what he really means are these
three components of enjoyment,satisfaction and meaning. So
(05:34):
let's talk about that for aminute.
Laura Bowman (05:36):
Yeah, he talks enjoyment or pleasure. He calls
it pleasure too, and I thinkthat's, like, hyper individual,
you know, what gives mepleasure? I mean, we talked
about that with our, you know,even our Yuck, yum therapist,
the sex therapist, is that,like, it's so individual about
what like sitting with a puzzleturns me on you that you would
(05:58):
want to, like, pluck youreyebrows out if you know, you
had to sit with a puzzle. Soit's like, what you know, mining
out, what are those things thatreally just like, give you that
feeling of contentment andpleasure?
Colette Fehr (06:12):
So I want to just contextualize pleasure a little
bit, because I did hear him makea distinction that I think is
super important. You know, I am,I have a very hedonistic part of
self, like I am no stranger topleasure, and given my way, I
could live a life of just, youknow, pleasure, like, if life
(06:34):
conspired with me to make thatpossible. But he does talk
about, and this is reallyimportant, that it's not just
pleasure like what feels good inthe moment, because that can be
a very different thing, and ourbrains are wired to seek
pleasure and reduce pain. It'sreally pleasure like what you
said, Laura, savoring anexperience, being present,
(06:56):
feeling like fulfilled by whatyou're doing, feeling at peace,
feeling content. So I just wantto differentiate that between,
you know, getting wasted. Or, Iknow you don't mean that, but I
think it's easy. Like, whatgives me pleasure is eating, but
that's how I've gotten, like, 40or 50 pounds overweight at
times. That's not the kind ofpleasure, yes, eating a good
(07:18):
meal, but being present, notstacking your face, huge piece
of it, right? Yes,
Laura Bowman (07:25):
and having that awareness of, and I think so
much of this is like wantingwhat you have, like, so like,
it's, it's, you know, just thatfeeling like, of being totally
content with what is,
Colette Fehr (07:38):
and paying attention to the small things in
your life that bring pleasure ina healthy way. Yes, that make
you feel good and making sureyou're building time and space
for those things part ofpleasure and enjoyment, though,
because it's really enjoyment,right? It's activities. It's
also people. We'll circle backto that, but let's talk about
(08:00):
these other two components.
Okay,
Laura Bowman (08:03):
so the second one is satisfaction. What do you
make of satisfaction?
Colette Fehr (08:10):
A sense of purpose. Well, that's really
more than meaning. But you know,they're all They're all
entwined, entwined, yeah,satisfaction, to me, is that I
work for something, I need to beworking towards something. And
it doesn't mean I have to be anendless productivity, but to
feel like I'm growing, and tofeel like I'm trying to stretch
(08:32):
myself at some stages of life,way out of my comfort zone,
sometimes, maybe only a littlebit, but then I'm always
learning and growing. So for me,satisfaction comes from a sense
of personal growth, of pursuingand fulfilling intellectual
curiosity. So I thinksatisfaction for other people,
(08:53):
for our listeners, you know, youmight define that differently,
although I do think those twothings I've mentioned, you know,
can relate to a lot of people. Alot of people might find
satisfaction in those pursuits,but it's going after something
and accomplishing, feeling asense of accomplishment. I
Laura Bowman (09:10):
guess the word that kept coming back to me was
feeling effective, that you areactually going after something
and accomplishing it like it'sthat closing the loop of I went
for it. It worked out. I feel soeffective, yeah, and which kind
of makes up forward motion forme, everybody needs that feeling
of like I don't know, I don'tcare how long it takes. I just
(09:31):
want to feel like I'm gettingsomewhere exactly,
Colette Fehr (09:35):
and you're so right, because that's when
people become hopeless anddiscouraged in our offices is
when and in life, you're tryingand you're trying and nothing's
working. Nothing right. You'retrying to lose weight and like
you are eating right and workingout and whatever, and nothing is
happening, or you're dating andyou're on these god awful apps
(09:59):
that make you. Want to die.
Everyone's a jerk, right? Youtry to have a positive attitude,
and then you get ghosted. It'sjust when we don't feel some
sense of efficacy, like you'resaying, we don't feel that
satisfied. And we definitelydon't feel satisfied with like,
superficial acquisition or empty
Laura Bowman (10:20):
right? Stuff. And people think they will, until
they get that, and then theyquickly move on
Colette Fehr (10:27):
right like I said when we were sitting in the
auditorium listening rightbefore he said it the hedonic
treadmill. Yes, that we think,Oh, this next thing is going to
be the thing that fills me up,and then I'll be happy. But what
we know about human nature isthat once that thing has landed,
then you're not new thing. Yeah,yeah. So it's really though why
(10:52):
we're going to close the loop onthis with meaning, right? This
is what holds together in mymind. Enjoyment and satisfaction
is that these pursuits we haveto keep growing and striving,
and these pursuits that aresatisfying and enjoyable have to
have meaning, because withoutthat, it's empty calories,
metaphorically speaking, yeah,
Laura Bowman (11:12):
and I see this all the time in my office, with
people who have careers thatdon't feel that they have a lot
of purpose, and they don't feellike They have enough meaning in
their life and they're reallygrappling with it. I also find
that it's the people who havethe best outcomes, mental health
wise, that can make meaning outof their experiences. What
Colette Fehr (11:33):
do you mean the best outcomes? Mental health
wise, explain that for thelisteners. I think I know what
you mean, but explain it for me,because I might be thinking
something
Laura Bowman (11:41):
else. It's just people who can take what they've
been through, yeah, and build astory that is kind of like the
hero's journey, yeah? And itculminates in this sense of,
like, I know why this. I kind ofunderstand why this happened,
not even if, why, but like that,this did happen. Why is? Why is
tricky,
Colette Fehr (12:01):
right? Because if you get sick or like a car rams
into you with a drunk driver,there's no why. I hate the
expression. Everything happensfor a reason. Do not say that to
anyone, ever, ever, ever,definitely don't say it to me.
It is the most invalidating toneof I don't know who put that on
a bumper sticker 40 years ago,but they Well, people
Laura Bowman (12:23):
say that when they don't know what to say, right?
But it's a really trait, littlemisses and it's invalidating,
Colette Fehr (12:30):
because the reality is, when you're in the
experience, that's not how itfeels, and sometimes there is no
why. I know there are people whoactually believe that, and maybe
that, if that's comforting foryou, great. It's not for me.
Yeah,
Laura Bowman (12:43):
I agree. I think why is so tricky. But I do think
that no matter what happens,that there's always an
opportunity for post traumaticgrowth. Yes, to make any people
who can get there and makemeaning, yes, they they will
have to meet the better outcomesand the people who feel like
there was no meaning and that noteachable moment, nothing to
(13:05):
grow from. No,
Colette Fehr (13:06):
you're 100% right, because the more apt trait
expression is making lemonadeout of lemons. Yeah, we don't
know why you have the lemons.
They're on your doorstep. Youcan't control what happens. We
know we're going to get lemons,sometimes a whole big bag of
that and buried under lemons,but it's the people who figure
(13:26):
out, you know, this sucked, andI'm allowed to feel hurt and
shocked and devastated until Idon't, and I'm going to figure
out what I can do With this sothat I can still lead a
meaningful life and find a wayto create satisfaction and
enjoyment. I
Laura Bowman (13:48):
know I'll create a lemonade stand, right? Or
Colette Fehr (13:51):
whatever, yeah, but it's true. That's yeah.
That's resilience and posttraumatic growth, you know, is
sort of the opposite. You don'tchoose post traumatic stress,
but it is a traumatic thinghappens, and it doesn't mean,
oh, it's so good that ithappened or you have to
celebrate it, but it means thatyou find a way to grow from
(14:13):
what's happened to you, and youcan lead an even more enriched
life. Plus, this is also howsome people take the worst and
most tragic, even horrificthings, and it becomes a life
mission, where they then go onto help so many other people,
like Gabby potatoes, parents. Iwatched a little while ago now
(14:34):
the documentary on her, thatyoung girl who was killed in the
domestic violence incident outwest. Most people probably have
heard her name, you know,obviously there's no why there.
There's no good why. It's notlike her family is going, Oh,
well, this happened for areason, right? Of course, but
they've taken this absolutetragedy and they have devoted
(14:55):
their resources and time andenergy toward getting the. Word
out there for persons of colorwho don't historically get as
much attention in the media, buta lot of people complain. You
know, yeah, there's another,like, cute, young, blonde, white
girl, she gets all thisattention, but like, what about
the 1000s, and maybe even moreof women who who don't get any
(15:20):
media attention. So her family,instead of getting defensive
about it, they said, Fuck,you're right. We didn't realize
this was happening. It's notokay, and they're trying to
spread awareness about domesticviolence resources help cops
understand what to look for, andget the word out there that we
need to be representing allpeople who go missing and bring
(15:41):
the kind of attention that Gabbygot to all of those cases. So my
point is, you know, they are,maybe it's not fair to say
they're making lemonade, butthey're doing something really,
really meaningful that couldsave
Laura Bowman (15:54):
other people's lives. Yeah, it's awesome,
that's right. And
Colette Fehr (15:58):
they don't want to, they wouldn't, I'm sure they
would trade it to have theirdaughter back, of
Laura Bowman (16:02):
course, of course.
But you know, I also think toback to the set point. I think
some people are more programmedto look for meaning, or to trend
towards meaning, than otherpeople. So I think so this is
something that people need helpwith very often. I
Colette Fehr (16:19):
agree, but I also think, like so many things, it's
a muscle, right? There'sneuroplasticity in the brain,
meaning the brain can change atany time. And really, if we say
one thing in this episode, it'sthat meaning and purpose are the
key to a happier life. Yes, whenyou feel like you know why
(16:42):
you're here? Oh, let's talkabout that. Because, right, his
question,
Laura Bowman (16:46):
I just, what did we think about this? I thought
this was a little too broad andmaybe not totally me, like
useful for today. So we had twoquestions. Yeah, he had two
questions that he asks hisstudents to answer. One of them
is, why do you think you'rehere, right? Why are you here?
Why are you here? And thesecond, what was, what would you
(17:09):
die for? And these students whowere, you know, in their early
20s, have to grapple with these,like, big questions. And and you
and I were like, what would wedie for? Our kids came up
straight away, but like, whatelse would you die for? Colette,
Colette Fehr (17:25):
so I think it's really interesting to pose the
questions and make people think.
And he used a story about hisown son, who was sort of lost
and going nowhere. And this kidended up going into the Marines
and going through this wholemetamorphosis where, when he
came home, he could answer thequestions. And, you know, for
me, at the end of the day, Ithink, what am I here for? Like,
(17:48):
what's my purpose? I think I canget behind that question a bit
same, yeah, and we'retherapists, so we talked about,
also, we're really lucky that wehave a job, there's some really
hard things about being atherapist, but we have a job
that is so meaningful and youcan actually impact people's
lives, and it's tremendouslyrewarding, I agree. So we're
(18:12):
lucky on that front. What wouldI die for? That question is
tough for me, because there isnothing I would die for other
than my children, period. Fullstop. Yeah,
Laura Bowman (18:26):
I feel the same. I and I think that's a really
tough question to ask a bunch ofkids in their 20s.
Colette Fehr (18:33):
Yeah, I think it's a tough question to ask anyone.
I just we wanted to share itwith you guys, because, you
know, maybe there's an angle onthis that I'm not kidding, or
there are some people who dohave that kind of mission, that
they would die for theirmission. And my hat's off to
you. I'm not that way. I'mscared of my own shadow. So
unless you're going to hurt mykid, I'm running. I'm running
(18:54):
any other direction, same, same.
But I don't think you have tohave an answer to that question
to find more meaning andpurpose, I do think, and this is
where we want to get into, whatare some of the habits and
practices you can do to reallyaffect that 25 ish percent of
our lives where our happiness isbuilt on habit. So let's get
(19:15):
into those things. We came upwith four things, yeah,
Laura Bowman (19:20):
one of the key pieces of his thing is, like
transcendence. You know, he's ahe's a practicing Catholic. I
think he's been to see the DalaiLama a bunch of times. He's very
much that we have to have aspiritual dimension to our
lives. He says it doesn't haveto be organized religion, or it
(19:41):
doesn't have to be religion atall? Yeah, no, but it has to be
something.
Colette Fehr (19:45):
Let me step in and speak for the bad Catholics.
That's who, that's the group I'min. Yeah, I was relieved to hear
him say because he didn'tactually introduce the topic
transcendence wasn't the firstword he. Started talking about
faith, right? And I was going,Okay, this is where I'm gonna be
a little challenged. But whetheryou see yourself, whether you're
(20:09):
devoted to religion andorganized religion, first of
all, let me say, anyone who hasfaith, I admire, I respect and I
envy it in a way. I don't have ablind faith in God or religion.
So but I do have transcendencein my life, so I want to hold
that God may play this role yourrelationship with God, but it
(20:31):
also may come from transcendingthe ordinary and feeling
connected to the universal flow,which I feel very much tuned
into,
Laura Bowman (20:42):
yeah. And he used the example of, like walking in
nature, in the woods, and thatthat can be like a transcendent,
meditative, spiritual practice,right? So he wasn't harnessing
it just in these, like tightconfines,
Colette Fehr (20:56):
but it could be.
It could look like differentthings for different people. And
I just want to make the barreally low, because it is as
simple, perhaps as walking innature. And we know actually
psychologically, seeing abeautiful vista, experiencing
the emotion awe, that that has atranscendent impact on our
limbic systems.
Laura Bowman (21:18):
Oh yeah. Like you heal. Like they've done research
studies where they put people inthe woods and like, something
about your your DNA just startsto, like, heal itself. I mean,
it's pretty impactful,
Colette Fehr (21:30):
right? It's research based. And there was
some study years ago. I won'tquote it quite, quite, right?
But they did. You know, anantidepressant, a psychotropic
drug, versus a 20 minute walk innature where you could see
water, and the walk in naturewhere you could see water had a
greater impact on mood than apsychotropic drug. So this
(21:53):
stuff's powerful, and what we'resaying is whether it's going to
church, connecting with a groupof people with whom you feel
spiritual, a meditationpractice, a walk in nature,
painting, sitting and painting,doing a stupid puzzle wouldn't
be it for me. Wow. Colette,stupid puzzle. I have to like,
rag on you for the puzzle thing.
Oh, my
Laura Bowman (22:15):
God, I feel so unloved. Oh, I
Colette Fehr (22:18):
love you so much, and I secretly am just jealous
that you can do a puzzle, yeah,
Laura Bowman (22:23):
but it's that flow, right? It's that flow
state that's so, so powerful.
Colette Fehr (22:28):
When you're in flow, everything feels good.
You're you're above the mundane,you're out of your head, you're
just fully present and alive.
Find your thing or things thathelp you get into that. What's
your thing? What's your thingfor that? Okay, I love to walk.
I walk with no music. I like towalk and think my my brain needs
(22:52):
space to just be and I come upwith my best ideas. It's part of
my writing process. I like tolook around. I play the little
rainbow game where I noticesomething red, orange, yellow,
yep, green, blue, purple. Ithink that's right. Just to make
(23:12):
sure I'm present like I try tobring myself into the moment. I
feel so alive and connected whenI do that. I really love that,
and then the other. And it's notabout the splurginess, but like
traveling, going to a new place,even if it's not like a big,
fancy trip, seeking novelty ofexperience, where I can get
(23:35):
curious about people and howthings go in a place I feel
really in the flow when I'm inthose experiences. Yeah, what
about you? Apple Tang is what
Laura Bowman (23:51):
I mean, yes, actually, I just love my brain
feels very like in flow when I'mlike, sorting rapidly. I can't I
mean, maybe this my neurodivergent popping off, but I
also, like, I love to paint. Ijust found this watercolor thing
that I was doing that I hadstarted like a year or two ago.
(24:13):
I found it this weekend, and Iwas like, I'm gonna finish this.
And I got like this wholeartistic like thing going and I
had, like, a bunch of thingsthat I was working on spread out
of on my coffee, like my diningroom table. And I and my
daughter said, I can tell you'rehappy because you're creating.
Unknown (24:31):
Oh, I love that, right?
Creating, creating, creating.
And I was like, Oh,
Colette Fehr (24:37):
that's right. No, that's beautiful. That's
beautiful. And I'm totallyteasing you about the puzzle. I
think that's an amazing thing. I
Laura Bowman (24:43):
am so comfortable being me. That's the other thing
Do you are you just comfortablewith who you are at this point
in life and like happy to be youwell?
Colette Fehr (24:54):
And I think it's chicken and the egg, because the
more you do these things, themore you get comfortable in your
own skin. The more comfortableyou are in your own skin, the
more you prioritize thesethings. You know, I have to say,
two things occurred to me as youwere talking. One is, you have
that same personality type as myyounger daughter, and how she
the same things that bring youto flow, bring her to flow. It's
(25:16):
interesting. And then also forme, you know, that doesn't
really do it for me. That's notreally flow for me. I think it's
new adventure. I think it's likeexploration, yeah. And then,
oddly enough, cleaning. I loveto clean. Oh,
Laura Bowman (25:33):
my God. I didn't want to mention that, but I
freaking love cleaning. Ifcleaning paid better when I
would we need to run a cleaningbusiness and organizing actually
does
Colette Fehr (25:43):
pay? Well, I thought about it. Yes, oh yes,
you can make a lot
Laura Bowman (25:49):
of money. Well, maybe I'm giving it all up
because I can be in flow all thetime. Listen,
Colette Fehr (25:54):
I thought about becoming, like, starting a
business or doing house cleaningor something, as an alternative
to becoming a therapist when Igot divorced, did you really?
Yes, I thought about it. Now,the problem is, I don't really.
I'm sure you get used to it, butI didn't relish the idea of
people's, like, gross things.
But, you know, I didn't know ifI wanted to, like, make that my
(26:15):
whole life's focus, but or thatI could stomach some of what
would go with that, but I loveto clean, and nothing makes me
feel better like thansatisfaction. Oh, then getting
it's my satisfying. Oh, it's sosatisfying. Everything, every
surface, it smells good,everything's organized, and
(26:36):
while I'm doing it, cleaning outmy closet is my biggest joy.
Flow state you just like,
Laura Bowman (26:47):
made that you made me feel normal for saying that,
because I love it and it hitsthat, like sorting thing that I
love from puzzles like I love tojust like, organize very
rapidly. I love it. I wouldhoarders call us. I would love
to
Colette Fehr (27:01):
clean. Yes, this is our next job, after the five
other businesses we're starting.
You know what it is? Laura, too,on the puzzle thing, it's not
that I can actually totally seewhy the puzzles are satisfying.
What it is is that when thepuzzle opens and it's a lot of
pieces, yeah, it's sooverwhelming for me, it doesn't
feel fun. I feel actually, like,hopeless and like, I don't think
(27:23):
the parts of the brain that helpstart to pay attention to detail
and, like, make sense of thepieces. I don't have the
personality for that, so I justget like, fuck it. I hate this.
Like they all look the same. Getout of my face. Yeah. So Okay,
all right, let's anyway. Okay,wait, so
Laura Bowman (27:42):
keep going, because I want you to take the
next one, because, I mean,you're the relationship person.
So tell us why. Yes,relationships matter.
Colette Fehr (27:51):
So this is obviously the hugest part. Well,
not obviously, I shouldn't sayobviously, to me at this point,
the hugest part of happiness,it's been researched, studied
and prevent is thatrelationships are the single
thing that define not only howhappy we are, but how long we
live. The Harvard study andadult development, which is an
(28:12):
85 year plus longitudinal studyon human nature and what happens
over the lifespan, has foundthat our relationships are the
single greatest source ofsatisfaction, meaning and
enjoyment, and we knowloneliness kills right.
Loneliness now kills more peoplea year than heart attacks,
(28:33):
smoking, obesity, all of it soand it's it's tough because
we're at a time in life where,with technology and so many
other issues, we're becomingmore and more disconnected than
ever as a society. And we can doa whole episode on this. In
fact, I'm about to do a talk onthis very topic. But for today's
(28:54):
discussion, let's just focus oninvest in your relationships.
Does it really matter whetheryou have one person you feel
close to, or 10, whatever.
You're an introvert, you're anextrovert. You know you are who
you are, but really put someeffort and intentionality into
maintaining those connectionsand spending time creating
(29:15):
memories and being present withthe people you care about who
make you feel good, becausenothing is going to boost your
mood like that.
Laura Bowman (29:25):
I totally agree, totally concur. As an introvert,
I still need my close people. Iactually came from the
university club this morningbecause I'm giving a talk there
on Thursday. Yeah, and you know,it's, it's a place in Winter
Park, that's for older adults,where they get together and they
do all kinds of things. Theyhave all these, like,
(29:47):
intellectual groups. They havethis library in there that I was
like, Oh, this is so cool. Theydo, like, Mahjong, they do they
have a science club. They do TaiChi. And I'm like, I am so.
Happy that a place like thisexists because people need
especially at that age, whenthey get older and their
children aren't around, or allkinds of you know, people die
(30:11):
you you need people, and they'rethere and they're spending time
together. And I'm like, This is
Colette Fehr (30:17):
awesome. It's great. It's great. Yeah, it's
community, and one of theprimary ways to get more
meaning, satisfaction andenjoyment, the components of
happiness from yourrelationships, is to deepen the
conversation. Yes, be presentwhen you're with people. Put
your phone away, tune in. Don'tlet the conversation settle on
(30:39):
like. So how's it going, rightor like? Talk about right your
kids sporting activities orwhere they're going to college.
That's all great. Share what'shappening in your life, but talk
about what matters. Open up, bevulnerable. Get curious about
people. Learn how to reallylisten and ask follow up
questions, because that createsconnection, and that's what's
(31:02):
going to give you that sense oflike I'm not just floating
around in the world. I'mconnected to other people who
matter, and I matter to them,and they matter to me, right?
Laura Bowman (31:12):
So we just kind of covered their friends and
family, because he says, Faith,friends, family, we put that in
the relationship bucket, andthen there's one final bucket
that he says is, like, superimportant. And that's work,
Colette Fehr (31:26):
okay? And we kind of talked about that,
Laura Bowman (31:28):
yeah. But I mean, I think work is I think it's
awesome. I think it's cruciallyimportant. So,
Colette Fehr (31:34):
and this is tough for some of you guys listening,
you know, depending on what youconsider your work or what you
do for work? There are so manypeople who don't like their
jobs. There are some people whodon't have a traditional job. So
let's not think of this as justa career. This is like, what is
(31:55):
your life's work, right? It'sback to like, the purpose, yeah,
and meaning, what do you? Do youjust or do you feel like you're
free, floating through space,killing off days that's probably
not going to make you superhappy. There has to be more than
just drifting around orhedonistic pleasure, or
conversely, a job where you feellike an indentured servant and
(32:17):
you show up every day and puncha clock and you hate what you
do? Yeah. So what do we want totell people who are stuck? Some
people feel stuck whencircumstance, and not everyone's
a therapist, where they feellike they're changing lives, you
know?
Laura Bowman (32:31):
And I think with the work piece, I just put
creative in front of it, likeeverybody should have creative
work, and that's like, that canlook differently, that can be
cooking, that can be yourgarden, that could be, you know,
your your writing, that can beanything. So you have your
career, or you have the thingsyou have to do, but then you
should have creative work. Yeah,and that's super personal.
Colette Fehr (32:54):
I love that you said that, because I don't think
it has to be your job. Maybe youhave a job that you don't love,
but you can't leave it forwhatever. Yeah, maybe you will
wonder, maybe it'll change, butthere are circumstances that are
out of our control, but thenmaybe work takes the form of a
hobby, right? Maybe it'ssomething you dabble in, maybe
it's volunteering, but findsomething that feels like
(33:18):
satisfying, meaningful work toyou. Doesn't matter how big or
little it is. It's got to feelsatisfying to you. It's
personal. Yeah, it's reallypersonal. And I think the way to
begin to find that, if you don'thave that it's worth it, to take
the time to get curious, that'swhere it really starts, and
Laura Bowman (33:41):
do an active dabble. And we've talked about
that many times, right?
Colette Fehr (33:44):
But the active dabble just meaning for people
who haven't listened, becausethat was our very first episode.
I
Laura Bowman (33:50):
feel like we talk about that all the time, but
maybe we don't. It's so huge.
Colette Fehr (33:54):
Like, yeah, you may have to be on a little bit
of a journey to figure out, whatdo I actually give a shit about,
right?
Laura Bowman (34:01):
Yeah. And that's that should be, that should be
part of the happiness programtoo. Is that I agree? Every now
and again you have to go intothat phase, right?
Colette Fehr (34:11):
Because a lot of people will say to me, now that
I'm doing so many things, oh,but you know, these are things
you were meant to do. And youknow you seem so confident and
no and no. Maybe it seems likethat now it didn't seem like it
to me, and I spent about twoyears with absolutely no clue
what else I wanted to do with mylife, feeling like I needed
(34:33):
something else for purpose andsatisfaction, but not knowing
what it was. And during thattime, it didn't always feel
comfortable. Remember that daythat I said to you, I have
absolutely no talentswhatsoever. Remember that you
said that to me? You don'tremember that. When was that?
Not that long ago, three yearsago, four years ago, where I was
(34:55):
like, you know, the bummer is, Iwish I was somebody who had a
talent, but I have. No talents,that's funny, right? And I just
felt so light of issue, yeah,yeah. So the point is, it's a
journey, and it might be thatyou arrive at, I don't, I don't
know, something so like, youwant to make little wood
(35:16):
carvings in your kitchen andprop them on the window sill. It
might be that you want to starta whole new career, you know,
where you take a huge pay cut,but do something that's mission
driven? Who knows? But whateverit is, give yourself permission
to explore, because you may beamazed by what you discover
about yourself that once feltimpossible.
Laura Bowman (35:37):
And you know what I want to take us back to, just
quickly, yeah, because we gottawrap, we gotta land our plane
here. I was typing up therisking, the risks of autonomy
worksheet because I wanted tohave it in a better form.
Colette Fehr (35:50):
Yes, and we're gonna have that on our website,
right? Yeah, we
Laura Bowman (35:53):
Yes, okay, it'll be a download that you guys can
get. It is so good
Colette Fehr (35:57):
insights from the couch.org right? We're gonna
have a worksheet from today'sepisode and all the others,
including this amazing thingLaura's referencing calling the
risks of autonomy. Yeah, and
Laura Bowman (36:10):
it's this guy he writes about. Basically, if you
do not like your life, it isyour responsibility. So I think
what goes along with happinessis accepting responsibility for
your happiness and your life.
Yeah, and that there's so muchthat you can affect and change
and do if you're willing to kindof go through the process. Amen
Colette Fehr (36:32):
to that. Yeah. So focus on what you can control.
Yep, stop beating yourself upand get curious. Accept what is
there that you can't controlbecause there's nothing you can
do about it anyway. God damnthing, right? But what you do
have agency over is yourmindset, your attitude, your
(36:54):
willingness to be an eternalstudent who is curious and open
and exploring life, and you'regoing to look for those things
that may come out of nowherethat you never saw coming, that
light you up, that feelmeaningful, that bring you to
flow, that connect you withother people, and build more of
(37:16):
that into your life. Because tosome degree, happiness is a
choice.
Laura Bowman (37:20):
Yes, it's hard to accept, but it's true. Yep, it's
not going to land on you.
Colette Fehr (37:26):
You gotta go. You gotta make it happen. All right,
let's wrap up on that note. Soagain, we will have a download
with the nuggets of wisdom thatall really come from Arthur C
Brooks, professor at Harvardbased on today's episode, and
we've got lots of moreworksheets and accompaniments to
(37:48):
all of our episodes, includingthis very powerful piece on
taking responsibility. So goodyou're gonna want it on your
refrigerator. It's amazing. Ihad it on my refrigerator for
like, 10 years. Yeah, yeah,everybody does have it. So check
out our website, at insightsfrom the couch.org,
Laura Bowman (38:06):
if you like what you heard. And I hope that you
did rate and review our podcast.
Give us a five star rating, tellyour friends, send the episodes
around. This is how we get out.
And we hope you got a bunch ofinsights from our couch today.
Take
Colette Fehr (38:24):
us. Thank you all for listening. See you soon.
Bye. You.
Laura, welcome to insights from the couch. I'm
Colette fair here with my cohost, Laura Bowman, we're
excited to talk with you againtoday about happiness, what
happiness really is, not thattoxic positivity, bullshit, real
happiness, and how you can havemore of it in your life based on
(00:23):
the brilliant research andteachings of Arthur C Brooks,
professor at Harvard University,you're going to want to hear
what we have to say, becausewe're going to boil it all down
into actionable items you canharness from this day forward to
live a more meaningful,fulfilling and happier life.
Laura Bowman (00:42):
Yay. This is the result of our field trip. We
took a field trip. Yes,
Colette Fehr (00:47):
we went to the DR Phillips Center for the
Performing Arts, which is herein Florida, where we live. And
Arthur C Brooks, who is thislegendary researcher on
happiness, right? He has hishe's had his own quest in life,
his own struggles withdepression, so he became curious
about, how can I be happier, andthis has led to a fruitful
(01:09):
career. I think he's published13 books, one with Oprah, yes,
the latest Oprah,
Laura Bowman (01:16):
he's no schlub, right top of the mountain, right
there. Yeah. And
Colette Fehr (01:20):
he's kind of one of the most well known happiness
experts, I suppose, in terms of,you know, what's the secret and
the art to happiness? So we wantto share what we learned with
you, and also our insights astherapists. Yeah. So
Laura Bowman (01:37):
one of the first things that I think I was
shocked to know is that 50% hesays that 50% of our happiness
is based on our genetic setpoints.
Colette Fehr (01:49):
It shocked you that it was that high or that
low?
Laura Bowman (01:51):
Yeah. I mean, I guess it doesn't. But which way,
which way higher was that high?
Colette Fehr (01:56):
Okay, see, I found it low. I was thinking it was
more like 80%
Laura Bowman (02:02):
really? Yes. I mean, that stands to reason,
because they've done all kindsof studies where it's like
people who've won the lottery orlost a limb, and then, you know,
they test them like a month out,90 days out, eventually,
happiness levels return tobaseline, which
Colette Fehr (02:22):
is fascinating.
And really, what we're sayinghere is that, yes, genetics play
a role, meaning that you have agenetic set point for happiness.
So, like, Laura's saying, youknow, if you win the lottery,
you're going to be thrilled. Imean, at least I would be for
that eventually, right? Maybe aweek. I think it's going to be
longer than that, I wonder whattime along you get like I think
I'd be pretty high for a while,but and just how many people I
(02:45):
would immediately tell to fuckoff like that alone would be so
joyous, seductive, yes. Butsince that's not happening
anytime soon, the reality is,even if I won the lottery and it
solved a lot of my problems Iwould soon return to however I
am. And as a therapist, sittingwith so many clients over the
years, you know, I've hadclients who have stage four
(03:07):
cancer, and their mindset is sopositive and powerful, not not
fake positive, like reallyseeing what's important in life,
that it's blown me away. AndI've learned so much from them.
And then I've had clients hadclients that, you know, their
garage door, and this is madeup, their garage door isn't
working, and they're just likein a state of complete, abject
(03:29):
despair. So a lot of it is howyou are. But the good news, and
what we want to talk about todayis that other 50% about 25% of
it, Dr Brooks says, iscircumstance, but the other 25%
is habits, habits of mind, howyou live your life. We actually
have a lot more control andagency over our mindset and how
(03:52):
we experience life than we maythink. And so we want to really
funnel into that part about whatwe can control, and leave you
with a couple of things thatcould be life changing.
Laura Bowman (04:06):
Yeah, that feels right. I think habits are that
beautiful place where you haveso much agency over your life
and making it better. Yes, I'veseen that in my own life. Just
having simple, simple habits areso grounding, like just walking,
yeah? Like, my walking habit isso huge
Colette Fehr (04:26):
Well, and that's actually been proven, that
walking clears the weeds in yourhead, it boosts mood. I mean,
walking is a freaking antidepressant that's not in a pill.
Yeah,
Laura Bowman (04:38):
go get a walking habit. But other habits too,
they're just very, verygrounding, right?
Colette Fehr (04:44):
So before we get into the habits, let's talk
about how Dr Brooks defineshappiness, because this may be
different than once, what somepeople imagine. And I just want
to say that I usually have thisvisceral reaction when people
talk about be happy. Be and bepositive. It feels faux and like
happiness. The true emotion ofhappiness is a fleeting state,
(05:08):
right? It's really joy, and it'snot meant to be. We don't live
in a state of permanent joy orhappiness. It's an emotion that
comes and goes, and when we haveit, we enjoy it, and then
there's struggle, and thenthere's moments of joy. But when
Brooks talks about happiness,what he really means are these
three components of enjoyment,satisfaction and meaning. So
(05:34):
let's talk about that for aminute.
Laura Bowman (05:36):
Yeah, he talks enjoyment or pleasure. He calls
it pleasure too, and I thinkthat's, like, hyper individual,
you know, what gives mepleasure? I mean, we talked
about that with our, you know,even our Yuck, yum therapist,
the sex therapist, is that,like, it's so individual about
what like sitting with a puzzleturns me on you that you would
(05:58):
want to, like, pluck youreyebrows out if you know, you
had to sit with a puzzle. Soit's like, what you know, mining
out, what are those things thatreally just like, give you that
feeling of contentment andpleasure?
Colette Fehr (06:12):
So I want to just contextualize pleasure a little
bit, because I did hear him makea distinction that I think is
super important. You know, I am,I have a very hedonistic part of
self, like I am no stranger topleasure, and given my way, I
could live a life of just, youknow, pleasure, like, if life
(06:34):
conspired with me to make thatpossible. But he does talk
about, and this is reallyimportant, that it's not just
pleasure like what feels good inthe moment, because that can be
a very different thing, and ourbrains are wired to seek
pleasure and reduce pain. It'sreally pleasure like what you
said, Laura, savoring anexperience, being present,
(06:56):
feeling like fulfilled by whatyou're doing, feeling at peace,
feeling content. So I just wantto differentiate that between,
you know, getting wasted. Or, Iknow you don't mean that, but I
think it's easy. Like, whatgives me pleasure is eating, but
that's how I've gotten, like, 40or 50 pounds overweight at
times. That's not the kind ofpleasure, yes, eating a good
(07:18):
meal, but being present, notstacking your face, huge piece
of it, right? Yes,
Laura Bowman (07:25):
and having that awareness of, and I think so
much of this is like wantingwhat you have, like, so like,
it's, it's, you know, just thatfeeling like, of being totally
content with what is,
Colette Fehr (07:38):
and paying attention to the small things in
your life that bring pleasure ina healthy way. Yes, that make
you feel good and making sureyou're building time and space
for those things part ofpleasure and enjoyment, though,
because it's really enjoyment,right? It's activities. It's
also people. We'll circle backto that, but let's talk about
(08:00):
these other two components.
Okay,
Laura Bowman (08:03):
so the second one is satisfaction. What do you
make of satisfaction?
Colette Fehr (08:10):
A sense of purpose. Well, that's really
more than meaning. But you know,they're all They're all
entwined, entwined, yeah,satisfaction, to me, is that I
work for something, I need to beworking towards something. And
it doesn't mean I have to be anendless productivity, but to
feel like I'm growing, and tofeel like I'm trying to stretch
(08:32):
myself at some stages of life,way out of my comfort zone,
sometimes, maybe only a littlebit, but then I'm always
learning and growing. So for me,satisfaction comes from a sense
of personal growth, of pursuingand fulfilling intellectual
curiosity. So I thinksatisfaction for other people,
(08:53):
for our listeners, you know, youmight define that differently,
although I do think those twothings I've mentioned, you know,
can relate to a lot of people. Alot of people might find
satisfaction in those pursuits,but it's going after something
and accomplishing, feeling asense of accomplishment. I
Laura Bowman (09:10):
guess the word that kept coming back to me was
feeling effective, that you areactually going after something
and accomplishing it like it'sthat closing the loop of I went
for it. It worked out. I feel soeffective, yeah, and which kind
of makes up forward motion forme, everybody needs that feeling
of like I don't know, I don'tcare how long it takes. I just
(09:31):
want to feel like I'm gettingsomewhere exactly,
Colette Fehr (09:35):
and you're so right, because that's when
people become hopeless anddiscouraged in our offices is
when and in life, you're tryingand you're trying and nothing's
working. Nothing right. You'retrying to lose weight and like
you are eating right and workingout and whatever, and nothing is
happening, or you're dating andyou're on these god awful apps
(09:59):
that make you. Want to die.
Everyone's a jerk, right? Youtry to have a positive attitude,
and then you get ghosted. It'sjust when we don't feel some
sense of efficacy, like you'resaying, we don't feel that
satisfied. And we definitelydon't feel satisfied with like,
superficial acquisition or empty
Laura Bowman (10:20):
right? Stuff. And people think they will, until
they get that, and then theyquickly move on
Colette Fehr (10:27):
right like I said when we were sitting in the
auditorium listening rightbefore he said it the hedonic
treadmill. Yes, that we think,Oh, this next thing is going to
be the thing that fills me up,and then I'll be happy. But what
we know about human nature isthat once that thing has landed,
then you're not new thing. Yeah,yeah. So it's really though why
(10:52):
we're going to close the loop onthis with meaning, right? This
is what holds together in mymind. Enjoyment and satisfaction
is that these pursuits we haveto keep growing and striving,
and these pursuits that aresatisfying and enjoyable have to
have meaning, because withoutthat, it's empty calories,
metaphorically speaking, yeah,
Laura Bowman (11:12):
and I see this all the time in my office, with
people who have careers thatdon't feel that they have a lot
of purpose, and they don't feellike They have enough meaning in
their life and they're reallygrappling with it. I also find
that it's the people who havethe best outcomes, mental health
wise, that can make meaning outof their experiences. What
Colette Fehr (11:33):
do you mean the best outcomes? Mental health
wise, explain that for thelisteners. I think I know what
you mean, but explain it for me,because I might be thinking
something
Laura Bowman (11:41):
else. It's just people who can take what they've
been through, yeah, and build astory that is kind of like the
hero's journey, yeah? And itculminates in this sense of,
like, I know why this. I kind ofunderstand why this happened,
not even if, why, but like that,this did happen. Why is? Why is
tricky,
Colette Fehr (12:01):
right? Because if you get sick or like a car rams
into you with a drunk driver,there's no why. I hate the
expression. Everything happensfor a reason. Do not say that to
anyone, ever, ever, ever,definitely don't say it to me.
It is the most invalidating toneof I don't know who put that on
a bumper sticker 40 years ago,but they Well, people
Laura Bowman (12:23):
say that when they don't know what to say, right?
But it's a really trait, littlemisses and it's invalidating,
Colette Fehr (12:30):
because the reality is, when you're in the
experience, that's not how itfeels, and sometimes there is no
why. I know there are people whoactually believe that, and maybe
that, if that's comforting foryou, great. It's not for me.
Yeah,
Laura Bowman (12:43):
I agree. I think why is so tricky. But I do think
that no matter what happens,that there's always an
opportunity for post traumaticgrowth. Yes, to make any people
who can get there and makemeaning, yes, they they will
have to meet the better outcomesand the people who feel like
there was no meaning and that noteachable moment, nothing to
(13:05):
grow from. No,
Colette Fehr (13:06):
you're 100% right, because the more apt trait
expression is making lemonadeout of lemons. Yeah, we don't
know why you have the lemons.
They're on your doorstep. Youcan't control what happens. We
know we're going to get lemons,sometimes a whole big bag of
that and buried under lemons,but it's the people who figure
(13:26):
out, you know, this sucked, andI'm allowed to feel hurt and
shocked and devastated until Idon't, and I'm going to figure
out what I can do With this sothat I can still lead a
meaningful life and find a wayto create satisfaction and
enjoyment. I
Laura Bowman (13:48):
know I'll create a lemonade stand, right? Or
Colette Fehr (13:51):
whatever, yeah, but it's true. That's yeah.
That's resilience and posttraumatic growth, you know, is
sort of the opposite. You don'tchoose post traumatic stress,
but it is a traumatic thinghappens, and it doesn't mean,
oh, it's so good that ithappened or you have to
celebrate it, but it means thatyou find a way to grow from
(14:13):
what's happened to you, and youcan lead an even more enriched
life. Plus, this is also howsome people take the worst and
most tragic, even horrificthings, and it becomes a life
mission, where they then go onto help so many other people,
like Gabby potatoes, parents. Iwatched a little while ago now
(14:34):
the documentary on her, thatyoung girl who was killed in the
domestic violence incident outwest. Most people probably have
heard her name, you know,obviously there's no why there.
There's no good why. It's notlike her family is going, Oh,
well, this happened for areason, right? Of course, but
they've taken this absolutetragedy and they have devoted
(14:55):
their resources and time andenergy toward getting the. Word
out there for persons of colorwho don't historically get as
much attention in the media, buta lot of people complain. You
know, yeah, there's another,like, cute, young, blonde, white
girl, she gets all thisattention, but like, what about
the 1000s, and maybe even moreof women who who don't get any
(15:20):
media attention. So her family,instead of getting defensive
about it, they said, Fuck,you're right. We didn't realize
this was happening. It's notokay, and they're trying to
spread awareness about domesticviolence resources help cops
understand what to look for, andget the word out there that we
need to be representing allpeople who go missing and bring
(15:41):
the kind of attention that Gabbygot to all of those cases. So my
point is, you know, they are,maybe it's not fair to say
they're making lemonade, butthey're doing something really,
really meaningful that couldsave
Laura Bowman (15:54):
other people's lives. Yeah, it's awesome,
that's right. And
Colette Fehr (15:58):
they don't want to, they wouldn't, I'm sure they
would trade it to have theirdaughter back, of
Laura Bowman (16:02):
course, of course.
But you know, I also think toback to the set point. I think
some people are more programmedto look for meaning, or to trend
towards meaning, than otherpeople. So I think so this is
something that people need helpwith very often. I
Colette Fehr (16:19):
agree, but I also think, like so many things, it's
a muscle, right? There'sneuroplasticity in the brain,
meaning the brain can change atany time. And really, if we say
one thing in this episode, it'sthat meaning and purpose are the
key to a happier life. Yes, whenyou feel like you know why
(16:42):
you're here? Oh, let's talkabout that. Because, right, his
question,
Laura Bowman (16:46):
I just, what did we think about this? I thought
this was a little too broad andmaybe not totally me, like
useful for today. So we had twoquestions. Yeah, he had two
questions that he asks hisstudents to answer. One of them
is, why do you think you'rehere, right? Why are you here?
Why are you here? And thesecond, what was, what would you
(17:09):
die for? And these students whowere, you know, in their early
20s, have to grapple with these,like, big questions. And and you
and I were like, what would wedie for? Our kids came up
straight away, but like, whatelse would you die for? Colette,
Colette Fehr (17:25):
so I think it's really interesting to pose the
questions and make people think.
And he used a story about hisown son, who was sort of lost
and going nowhere. And this kidended up going into the Marines
and going through this wholemetamorphosis where, when he
came home, he could answer thequestions. And, you know, for
me, at the end of the day, Ithink, what am I here for? Like,
(17:48):
what's my purpose? I think I canget behind that question a bit
same, yeah, and we'retherapists, so we talked about,
also, we're really lucky that wehave a job, there's some really
hard things about being atherapist, but we have a job
that is so meaningful and youcan actually impact people's
lives, and it's tremendouslyrewarding, I agree. So we're
(18:12):
lucky on that front. What wouldI die for? That question is
tough for me, because there isnothing I would die for other
than my children, period. Fullstop. Yeah,
Laura Bowman (18:26):
I feel the same. I and I think that's a really
tough question to ask a bunch ofkids in their 20s.
Colette Fehr (18:33):
Yeah, I think it's a tough question to ask anyone.
I just we wanted to share itwith you guys, because, you
know, maybe there's an angle onthis that I'm not kidding, or
there are some people who dohave that kind of mission, that
they would die for theirmission. And my hat's off to
you. I'm not that way. I'mscared of my own shadow. So
unless you're going to hurt mykid, I'm running. I'm running
(18:54):
any other direction, same, same.
But I don't think you have tohave an answer to that question
to find more meaning andpurpose, I do think, and this is
where we want to get into, whatare some of the habits and
practices you can do to reallyaffect that 25 ish percent of
our lives where our happiness isbuilt on habit. So let's get
(19:15):
into those things. We came upwith four things, yeah,
Laura Bowman (19:20):
one of the key pieces of his thing is, like
transcendence. You know, he's ahe's a practicing Catholic. I
think he's been to see the DalaiLama a bunch of times. He's very
much that we have to have aspiritual dimension to our
lives. He says it doesn't haveto be organized religion, or it
(19:41):
doesn't have to be religion atall? Yeah, no, but it has to be
something.
Colette Fehr (19:45):
Let me step in and speak for the bad Catholics.
That's who, that's the group I'min. Yeah, I was relieved to hear
him say because he didn'tactually introduce the topic
transcendence wasn't the firstword he. Started talking about
faith, right? And I was going,Okay, this is where I'm gonna be
a little challenged. But whetheryou see yourself, whether you're
(20:09):
devoted to religion andorganized religion, first of
all, let me say, anyone who hasfaith, I admire, I respect and I
envy it in a way. I don't have ablind faith in God or religion.
So but I do have transcendencein my life, so I want to hold
that God may play this role yourrelationship with God, but it
(20:31):
also may come from transcendingthe ordinary and feeling
connected to the universal flow,which I feel very much tuned
into,
Laura Bowman (20:42):
yeah. And he used the example of, like walking in
nature, in the woods, and thatthat can be like a transcendent,
meditative, spiritual practice,right? So he wasn't harnessing
it just in these, like tightconfines,
Colette Fehr (20:56):
but it could be.
It could look like differentthings for different people. And
I just want to make the barreally low, because it is as
simple, perhaps as walking innature. And we know actually
psychologically, seeing abeautiful vista, experiencing
the emotion awe, that that has atranscendent impact on our
limbic systems.
Laura Bowman (21:18):
Oh yeah. Like you heal. Like they've done research
studies where they put people inthe woods and like, something
about your your DNA just startsto, like, heal itself. I mean,
it's pretty impactful,
Colette Fehr (21:30):
right? It's research based. And there was
some study years ago. I won'tquote it quite, quite, right?
But they did. You know, anantidepressant, a psychotropic
drug, versus a 20 minute walk innature where you could see
water, and the walk in naturewhere you could see water had a
greater impact on mood than apsychotropic drug. So this
(21:53):
stuff's powerful, and what we'resaying is whether it's going to
church, connecting with a groupof people with whom you feel
spiritual, a meditationpractice, a walk in nature,
painting, sitting and painting,doing a stupid puzzle wouldn't
be it for me. Wow. Colette,stupid puzzle. I have to like,
rag on you for the puzzle thing.
Oh, my
Laura Bowman (22:15):
God, I feel so unloved. Oh, I
Colette Fehr (22:18):
love you so much, and I secretly am just jealous
that you can do a puzzle, yeah,
Laura Bowman (22:23):
but it's that flow, right? It's that flow
state that's so, so powerful.
Colette Fehr (22:28):
When you're in flow, everything feels good.
You're you're above the mundane,you're out of your head, you're
just fully present and alive.
Find your thing or things thathelp you get into that. What's
your thing? What's your thingfor that? Okay, I love to walk.
I walk with no music. I like towalk and think my my brain needs
(22:52):
space to just be and I come upwith my best ideas. It's part of
my writing process. I like tolook around. I play the little
rainbow game where I noticesomething red, orange, yellow,
yep, green, blue, purple. Ithink that's right. Just to make
(23:12):
sure I'm present like I try tobring myself into the moment. I
feel so alive and connected whenI do that. I really love that,
and then the other. And it's notabout the splurginess, but like
traveling, going to a new place,even if it's not like a big,
fancy trip, seeking novelty ofexperience, where I can get
(23:35):
curious about people and howthings go in a place I feel
really in the flow when I'm inthose experiences. Yeah, what
about you? Apple Tang is what
Laura Bowman (23:51):
I mean, yes, actually, I just love my brain
feels very like in flow when I'mlike, sorting rapidly. I can't I
mean, maybe this my neurodivergent popping off, but I
also, like, I love to paint. Ijust found this watercolor thing
that I was doing that I hadstarted like a year or two ago.
(24:13):
I found it this weekend, and Iwas like, I'm gonna finish this.
And I got like this wholeartistic like thing going and I
had, like, a bunch of thingsthat I was working on spread out
of on my coffee, like my diningroom table. And I and my
daughter said, I can tell you'rehappy because you're creating.
Unknown (24:31):
Oh, I love that, right?
Creating, creating, creating.
And I was like, Oh,
Colette Fehr (24:37):
that's right. No, that's beautiful. That's
beautiful. And I'm totallyteasing you about the puzzle. I
think that's an amazing thing. I
Laura Bowman (24:43):
am so comfortable being me. That's the other thing
Do you are you just comfortablewith who you are at this point
in life and like happy to be youwell?
Colette Fehr (24:54):
And I think it's chicken and the egg, because the
more you do these things, themore you get comfortable in your
own skin. The more comfortableyou are in your own skin, the
more you prioritize thesethings. You know, I have to say,
two things occurred to me as youwere talking. One is, you have
that same personality type as myyounger daughter, and how she
the same things that bring youto flow, bring her to flow. It's
(25:16):
interesting. And then also forme, you know, that doesn't
really do it for me. That's notreally flow for me. I think it's
new adventure. I think it's likeexploration, yeah. And then,
oddly enough, cleaning. I loveto clean. Oh,
Laura Bowman (25:33):
my God. I didn't want to mention that, but I
freaking love cleaning. Ifcleaning paid better when I
would we need to run a cleaningbusiness and organizing actually
does
Colette Fehr (25:43):
pay? Well, I thought about it. Yes, oh yes,
you can make a lot
Laura Bowman (25:49):
of money. Well, maybe I'm giving it all up
because I can be in flow all thetime. Listen,
Colette Fehr (25:54):
I thought about becoming, like, starting a
business or doing house cleaningor something, as an alternative
to becoming a therapist when Igot divorced, did you really?
Yes, I thought about it. Now,the problem is, I don't really.
I'm sure you get used to it, butI didn't relish the idea of
people's, like, gross things.
But, you know, I didn't know ifI wanted to, like, make that my
(26:15):
whole life's focus, but or thatI could stomach some of what
would go with that, but I loveto clean, and nothing makes me
feel better like thansatisfaction. Oh, then getting
it's my satisfying. Oh, it's sosatisfying. Everything, every
surface, it smells good,everything's organized, and
(26:36):
while I'm doing it, cleaning outmy closet is my biggest joy.
Flow state you just like,
Laura Bowman (26:47):
made that you made me feel normal for saying that,
because I love it and it hitsthat, like sorting thing that I
love from puzzles like I love tojust like, organize very
rapidly. I love it. I wouldhoarders call us. I would love
to
Colette Fehr (27:01):
clean. Yes, this is our next job, after the five
other businesses we're starting.
You know what it is? Laura, too,on the puzzle thing, it's not
that I can actually totally seewhy the puzzles are satisfying.
What it is is that when thepuzzle opens and it's a lot of
pieces, yeah, it's sooverwhelming for me, it doesn't
feel fun. I feel actually, like,hopeless and like, I don't think
(27:23):
the parts of the brain that helpstart to pay attention to detail
and, like, make sense of thepieces. I don't have the
personality for that, so I justget like, fuck it. I hate this.
Like they all look the same. Getout of my face. Yeah. So Okay,
all right, let's anyway. Okay,wait, so
Laura Bowman (27:42):
keep going, because I want you to take the
next one, because, I mean,you're the relationship person.
So tell us why. Yes,relationships matter.
Colette Fehr (27:51):
So this is obviously the hugest part. Well,
not obviously, I shouldn't sayobviously, to me at this point,
the hugest part of happiness,it's been researched, studied
and prevent is thatrelationships are the single
thing that define not only howhappy we are, but how long we
live. The Harvard study andadult development, which is an
(28:12):
85 year plus longitudinal studyon human nature and what happens
over the lifespan, has foundthat our relationships are the
single greatest source ofsatisfaction, meaning and
enjoyment, and we knowloneliness kills right.
Loneliness now kills more peoplea year than heart attacks,
(28:33):
smoking, obesity, all of it soand it's it's tough because
we're at a time in life where,with technology and so many
other issues, we're becomingmore and more disconnected than
ever as a society. And we can doa whole episode on this. In
fact, I'm about to do a talk onthis very topic. But for today's
(28:54):
discussion, let's just focus oninvest in your relationships.
Does it really matter whetheryou have one person you feel
close to, or 10, whatever.
You're an introvert, you're anextrovert. You know you are who
you are, but really put someeffort and intentionality into
maintaining those connectionsand spending time creating
(29:15):
memories and being present withthe people you care about who
make you feel good, becausenothing is going to boost your
mood like that.
Laura Bowman (29:25):
I totally agree, totally concur. As an introvert,
I still need my close people. Iactually came from the
university club this morningbecause I'm giving a talk there
on Thursday. Yeah, and you know,it's, it's a place in Winter
Park, that's for older adults,where they get together and they
do all kinds of things. Theyhave all these, like,
(29:47):
intellectual groups. They havethis library in there that I was
like, Oh, this is so cool. Theydo, like, Mahjong, they do they
have a science club. They do TaiChi. And I'm like, I am so.
Happy that a place like thisexists because people need
especially at that age, whenthey get older and their
children aren't around, or allkinds of you know, people die
(30:11):
you you need people, and they'rethere and they're spending time
together. And I'm like, This is
Colette Fehr (30:17):
awesome. It's great. It's great. Yeah, it's
community, and one of theprimary ways to get more
meaning, satisfaction andenjoyment, the components of
happiness from yourrelationships, is to deepen the
conversation. Yes, be presentwhen you're with people. Put
your phone away, tune in. Don'tlet the conversation settle on
(30:39):
like. So how's it going, rightor like? Talk about right your
kids sporting activities orwhere they're going to college.
That's all great. Share what'shappening in your life, but talk
about what matters. Open up, bevulnerable. Get curious about
people. Learn how to reallylisten and ask follow up
questions, because that createsconnection, and that's what's
(31:02):
going to give you that sense oflike I'm not just floating
around in the world. I'mconnected to other people who
matter, and I matter to them,and they matter to me, right?
Laura Bowman (31:12):
So we just kind of covered their friends and
family, because he says, Faith,friends, family, we put that in
the relationship bucket, andthen there's one final bucket
that he says is, like, superimportant. And that's work,
Colette Fehr (31:26):
okay? And we kind of talked about that,
Laura Bowman (31:28):
yeah. But I mean, I think work is I think it's
awesome. I think it's cruciallyimportant. So,
Colette Fehr (31:34):
and this is tough for some of you guys listening,
you know, depending on what youconsider your work or what you
do for work? There are so manypeople who don't like their
jobs. There are some people whodon't have a traditional job. So
let's not think of this as justa career. This is like, what is
(31:55):
your life's work, right? It'sback to like, the purpose, yeah,
and meaning, what do you? Do youjust or do you feel like you're
free, floating through space,killing off days that's probably
not going to make you superhappy. There has to be more than
just drifting around orhedonistic pleasure, or
conversely, a job where you feellike an indentured servant and
(32:17):
you show up every day and puncha clock and you hate what you
do? Yeah. So what do we want totell people who are stuck? Some
people feel stuck whencircumstance, and not everyone's
a therapist, where they feellike they're changing lives, you
know?
Laura Bowman (32:31):
And I think with the work piece, I just put
creative in front of it, likeeverybody should have creative
work, and that's like, that canlook differently, that can be
cooking, that can be yourgarden, that could be, you know,
your your writing, that can beanything. So you have your
career, or you have the thingsyou have to do, but then you
should have creative work. Yeah,and that's super personal.
Colette Fehr (32:54):
I love that you said that, because I don't think
it has to be your job. Maybe youhave a job that you don't love,
but you can't leave it forwhatever. Yeah, maybe you will
wonder, maybe it'll change, butthere are circumstances that are
out of our control, but thenmaybe work takes the form of a
hobby, right? Maybe it'ssomething you dabble in, maybe
it's volunteering, but findsomething that feels like
(33:18):
satisfying, meaningful work toyou. Doesn't matter how big or
little it is. It's got to feelsatisfying to you. It's
personal. Yeah, it's reallypersonal. And I think the way to
begin to find that, if you don'thave that it's worth it, to take
the time to get curious, that'swhere it really starts, and
Laura Bowman (33:41):
do an active dabble. And we've talked about
that many times, right?
Colette Fehr (33:44):
But the active dabble just meaning for people
who haven't listened, becausethat was our very first episode.
I
Laura Bowman (33:50):
feel like we talk about that all the time, but
maybe we don't. It's so huge.
Colette Fehr (33:54):
Like, yeah, you may have to be on a little bit
of a journey to figure out, whatdo I actually give a shit about,
right?
Laura Bowman (34:01):
Yeah. And that's that should be, that should be
part of the happiness programtoo. Is that I agree? Every now
and again you have to go intothat phase, right?
Colette Fehr (34:11):
Because a lot of people will say to me, now that
I'm doing so many things, oh,but you know, these are things
you were meant to do. And youknow you seem so confident and
no and no. Maybe it seems likethat now it didn't seem like it
to me, and I spent about twoyears with absolutely no clue
what else I wanted to do with mylife, feeling like I needed
(34:33):
something else for purpose andsatisfaction, but not knowing
what it was. And during thattime, it didn't always feel
comfortable. Remember that daythat I said to you, I have
absolutely no talentswhatsoever. Remember that you
said that to me? You don'tremember that. When was that?
Not that long ago, three yearsago, four years ago, where I was
(34:55):
like, you know, the bummer is, Iwish I was somebody who had a
talent, but I have. No talents,that's funny, right? And I just
felt so light of issue, yeah,yeah. So the point is, it's a
journey, and it might be thatyou arrive at, I don't, I don't
know, something so like, youwant to make little wood
(35:16):
carvings in your kitchen andprop them on the window sill. It
might be that you want to starta whole new career, you know,
where you take a huge pay cut,but do something that's mission
driven? Who knows? But whateverit is, give yourself permission
to explore, because you may beamazed by what you discover
about yourself that once feltimpossible.
Laura Bowman (35:37):
And you know what I want to take us back to, just
quickly, yeah, because we gottawrap, we gotta land our plane
here. I was typing up therisking, the risks of autonomy
worksheet because I wanted tohave it in a better form.
Colette Fehr (35:50):
Yes, and we're gonna have that on our website,
right? Yeah, we
Laura Bowman (35:53):
Yes, okay, it'll be a download that you guys can
get. It is so good
Colette Fehr (35:57):
insights from the couch.org right? We're gonna
have a worksheet from today'sepisode and all the others,
including this amazing thingLaura's referencing calling the
risks of autonomy. Yeah, and
Laura Bowman (36:10):
it's this guy he writes about. Basically, if you
do not like your life, it isyour responsibility. So I think
what goes along with happinessis accepting responsibility for
your happiness and your life.
Yeah, and that there's so muchthat you can affect and change
and do if you're willing to kindof go through the process. Amen
Colette Fehr (36:32):
to that. Yeah. So focus on what you can control.
Yep, stop beating yourself upand get curious. Accept what is
there that you can't controlbecause there's nothing you can
do about it anyway. God damnthing, right? But what you do
have agency over is yourmindset, your attitude, your
(36:54):
willingness to be an eternalstudent who is curious and open
and exploring life, and you'regoing to look for those things
that may come out of nowherethat you never saw coming, that
light you up, that feelmeaningful, that bring you to
flow, that connect you withother people, and build more of
(37:16):
that into your life. Because tosome degree, happiness is a
choice.
Laura Bowman (37:20):
Yes, it's hard to accept, but it's true. Yep, it's
not going to land on you.
Colette Fehr (37:26):
You gotta go. You gotta make it happen. All right,
let's wrap up on that note. Soagain, we will have a download
with the nuggets of wisdom thatall really come from Arthur C
Brooks, professor at Harvardbased on today's episode, and
we've got lots of moreworksheets and accompaniments to
(37:48):
all of our episodes, includingthis very powerful piece on
taking responsibility. So goodyou're gonna want it on your
refrigerator. It's amazing. Ihad it on my refrigerator for
like, 10 years. Yeah, yeah,everybody does have it. So check
out our website, at insightsfrom the couch.org,
Laura Bowman (38:06):
if you like what you heard. And I hope that you
did rate and review our podcast.
Give us a five star rating, tellyour friends, send the episodes
around. This is how we get out.
And we hope you got a bunch ofinsights from our couch today.
Take
Colette Fehr (38:24):
us. Thank you all for listening. See you soon.
Bye. You.
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