July 21, 2025 • 47 mins
In this episode of Investing in Accessibility, hosts Kelvin Crosby and Chris Maher welcome Levin Sliker, co-founder and CEO of Point Designs, a pioneering company that creates durable, 3D-printed prosthetic fingers. Levin shares his inspiring journey from academia to entrepreneurship, detailing how a university project aimed at solving a real-world problem evolved into a mission-driven company reshaping prosthetic care for people with partial hand amputations.
The conversation delves into the surprising prevalence and psychological impact of finger loss, and how Point Designs is addressing a historically underserved market. Levin discusses the origin of the company’s technology, which began with metal 3D printing at the University of Colorado, and how early relationships and lean operations helped the team bootstrap their way to profitability.
Levin also outlines Point Designs' unique approach to funding—relying on grants rather than venture capital—and how this enabled slow, sustainable growth while staying mission-focused. He explains the importance of customer relationships, founder-led sales, and rapid iteration in product development. The episode also highlights the regulatory hurdles, the role of AI in customization, and the company's ongoing advocacy work to ensure broader insurance coverage for these life-changing devices.
Listeners will walk away with deep insights into the intersection of innovation, accessibility, and purpose-driven business—and the power of solving real problems with empathy, creativity, and resilience.
Links & Resources:
Levin Sliker: LinkedIn
Point Designs: Website
COMING SOON!
American Sign Language (ASL) and Captioning for each episode will be provided on our YouTube channel. Go to handle @SamaritanPartners.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Kelvin Crosby (00:06):
Welcome to Investing in Accessibility, a
Samaritan Partners podcast.
We're not waiting for change,we're investing in it.
Join us as we speak withentrepreneurs and thought
leaders that are focused oncreating a more accessible world
.
(00:30):
Hey, so good to see you, eventhough I can't see you.
It's another beautiful day inthe neighborhood and I'm so
excited that you're here atInvesting in Accessibility, and
I'm your host, Calvin Crosby,and my co-host, Chris Maher.
How you doing, man?
Chris Maher (00:45):
Good buddy, good to see you and be with you today.
Kelvin Crosby (00:47):
Yeah, I mean, have you ever thought about
losing your finger and thenthinking about you could replace
it with a 3D printer?
Chris Maher (00:56):
No, I haven't until until I met our guest.
Kelvin Crosby (00:59):
I mean that to me seems fascinating, like okay,
you lose your finger, and thenyou could get a new one and it
could be 3D printed for you.
Chris Maher (01:11):
Yeah, or you could be born with a limb difference.
Kelvin Crosby (01:14):
Yep, and that is truly a fascinating concept.
So let's figure out who ourguest is.
Chris Maher (01:23):
You got it, well, we have the great pleasure today
of welcoming someone who I hadthe good fortune of meeting
through a mutual friend, whichwe'll get into in a second, but
let's welcome our guest.
And our guest today is LevinSliker, who is the co-founder
and CEO of a company calledPoint Designs.
Welcome Levin.
Levin Sliker (01:40):
Thank you, Chris, thank you, Kelvin.
It's great to be here.
I really appreciate theopportunity.
Well, it's our pleasure to haveyou, and the way that Levin and
I met several months ago wasactually through a mutual
contact who is a dear, dearfriend of mine, who lives in the
Boulder area where Levin is,but a gentleman named Brendan
McGuire.
A little shout out to BrendanMcGuire, who I actually spoke to
(02:02):
earlier this week, but Brendanand I worked together gosh, 20
years ago, and have continued tostay great friends to this day,
and he and I were catching up afew months ago.
He's like hey, chris, I got tointroduce you to this
entrepreneur that I know here inBoulder and he's got this
amazing company.
And so it's amazing how theuniverse conspires to bring
folks together.
So good to have you here, Levin.
I think where we should start,because you have a unique
(02:25):
background and the growth andtrajectory of your company, I
think, is a little bit differentthan the normal path of a
startup, and so I think let'smaybe start with just your
personal background, because youcame from the world of academia
, not really from the world ofbusiness initially, and so let's
just let you kind of take usfrom the beginning and the arc
(02:46):
of your career and how you cameto Point Designs.
Yeah, I'm going to .
Actually I'm going to starteven before that because I think
it's relevant to the story.
I grew up in Colorado Springs,excuse me, and I watched my
parents run and operate and owna veterinary hospital and that I
(03:08):
think that's relevant laterbecause people always ask me
like did you go to businessschool?
Like how'd you learn how to runa business and lead a team and
and and do this?
And I think my answer hasalways been I think I just
learned it through osmosis as akid because my parents kind of
lived, breathed, worked and Ijust kind of learned by
(03:30):
observing.
So, bounce forward, you know, 10or 15 years, I went to
University of Colorado, Boulder,for college mechanical
engineering.
I ended up in school for almost10 years.
I got three degrees from themechanical engineering
department and during gradschool I was pulled into a
(03:52):
project, or very interested in aproject, completely unrelated
to prosthetics.
I was doing research on thebiomechanics of gastrointestinal
tissue for surgical robotics inthe GI space, And, I've always
been drawn to helping people andso the medical device field is
(04:16):
a natural way for me to leveragemy engineering skills and
background and also help peopleskills and background and also
help people.
So after graduating fromUniversity of Colorado, I then
took a faculty position in thebioengineering department on the
Anschutz Medical Campus.
So same university, differentcampus and it was there that I
(04:37):
started getting involved inassistive technology projects.
So I actually worked on avariety of different things from
wheelchair systems and seating,fall detection, social
assistive robotics and then gotinvolved in this project to
develop prosthetic fingertechnology.
So I got pulled in.
(05:00):
It was actually a graduateschool friend named Jacob Siegel
.
I went through graduate schoolwith him and his advisor, his
PhD advisor, Richard Weir, andthen a colleague of ours Richard
Stevens.
So the four of us co-foundedPoint Designs in 2016.
And kind of leading up to that,we did a lot of the development
(05:23):
work in the university, in theuniversity setting, so it kind
of enabled us to, you know, wedid leverage some university
resources to do that work, whichkind of helped us kickstart the
technology.
And the need for the technologywas born directly from industry.
Richard Weir had somelongstanding relationships with
(05:46):
prosthetists and they startedcoming to him, knowing the
capabilities of his lab at CUand they said we don't have
prosthetic fingers that don'tbreak.
We need something that doesn'tbreak.
And so we set out to do that.
And Richard, he had acquired a3D printer that printed metal
(06:11):
and we started designing thesefinger mechanisms out of 3D
printed metal.
We worked on that for a coupleof years and at one point, the
guy who kind of came to him withthe idea in the first place
said I think it's ready, whencan I buy it?
And it was at that point wherewe're like, okay, well, what are
(06:33):
the next steps?
So that was 2016.
And we created a company, wedid a few things to get
ourselves ready and we sold ourfirst system in January of 2017.
Chris Maher (06:50):
Wow, wow.
So thank you for taking usthrough the the the arc of that
journey, and thank you forsharing the story about
observing and watching yourparents run their business as a
child, and so we talk a lotabout lived experience on this
podcast, and a lot of times it'sin relation to disability, but
(07:14):
it also can be in relation toentrepreneurship.
And so I have no doubt that youwatching your parents run their
business for those years,because the entrepreneurial
journey is not for everyone, andto experience that, I'm sure
that you are using lessons andobservations from watching them
run their business every day, asyou're now the CEO of this
business.
(07:34):
So thank you for sharing that.
My first question is, so youincorporated the business in
what late 16, 2017, and had amarket-ready product that you
were selling at that point.
How many years was it indevelopment up until that time?
Levin Sliker (07:54):
Yeah, I think we probably started development and
I'll be fully transparent hereI was not involved in the very
first stages of development.
I got pulled in probably around2014.
But development startedprobably 2013, 2012, 2013.
So about three years ofdevelopment, kind of back and
(08:16):
forth.
I don't know how manyprototypes, but about three
years of development.
Chris Maher (08:21):
And that was all within Professor Weir, right
Within his lab, within theuniversity, kind of being funded
through the university duringthat time, and he's using PhD
students to help him developthings,
Kelvin Crosby (08:36):
Well, I mean, what's fascinating is one of my
first projects.
I did a very similar, not sameproject, but used the same model
.
And as this kind of starteddeveloping, I'm curious did you
guys ever see this becoming abusiness when you guys were
developing this, or was italways like this is just a
(08:57):
university project?
Levin Sliker (08:58):
Yeah, I mean.
So, honestly, the answer is no.
We did not see this as being assuccessful of a business as as
it has become.
We were honestly just.
You know we're technologists atheart.
You know, all four founders areengineers.
We like to build cool stuffthat makes an impact, and that's
(09:24):
really what we set out to do isjust like solve a need that we
had identified and then, itbecome aparent
Well, it became apparent.
We always, we always did knowthe market size, right.
There there is a, we knew thatthe partial hand space, like so
people with partial handamputations, historically have
(09:47):
been underserved.
They have not had nearly asmany options as other levels of
amputation or lower limbamputation and the incidence
rate is much higher.
So there's just a biggerpatient population.
Chris Maher (10:04):
Can you give us a sense of the size of that
population?
Levin Sliker (10:07):
Yeah, so total number in the US is a little
hard to nail down, but annuallyin the US about 50,000
individuals undergo a partialand amputation traumatically.
Chris Maher (10:23):
And that number is larger than lower limb
amputations.
Levin Sliker (10:29):
It's about the same as so in the number of
fingers.
So you can count it a couple ofways.
Number of fingers and number ofindividuals.
And if you look at the numberof fingers amputated annually,
it's about equivalent to thenumber of upper leg amputations
that happen annually, which isabout 120,000 per year.
Kelvin Crosby (10:53):
Wow, Wow.
I mean, do you find, as youwere doing this research, like
was it mind-blowing to yourealizing like this is a lot
bigger deal?
Like my mechanic that works onmy wife's car, he's missing half
of his finger.
I'm like this would be a goodproduct for him, but he just he
(11:15):
doesn't want to get anything atthe moment.
Honestly, now that I thinkabout it, I know firsthand, as I
start thinking through this,about 20 people that are missing
a finger or part of the hand orsomething like that.
And I mean I wanted to make ajoke.
(11:36):
As you were saying this, I waslike I mean, the amputee hands
lifestyle has always been the,the pirate.
You know, you got your hook,that's it.
You don't got anything elsefancy.
And I thought this is this, isthis is mind blowing to me, Like
, like how underserved as youwere talking about it.
(11:56):
Like this seems like commonsense.
I think I've heard that before.
This seems like common sense,but why hasn't it been done
before?
Chris Maher (12:09):
Well, and also the market came to you, came to
Professor Weir.
So it was obviously a gap inthe market, right, it was a
problem worth solving.
Levin Sliker (12:22):
Yeah, I mean just in response to what Kelvin was
saying.
I mean I think you know one ofthe things that we, the
technology is actuallyrelatively simple, right?
So you know.
You ask the question well, youknow, why aren't there more
options?
The technology is relativelysimple, but you know there are a
lot of, I guess, there are somebarriers to entry, one of them
(12:47):
being funding, not on gettingthe company funded, but on
actually getting the devicespaid for.
Maybe we can get into that more, maybe not, but that is a
challenge, it's a barrier.
If you don't know that yourproduct is going to get paid for
, then why?
You know why?
Why develop it and put in theresources to develop it.
(13:24):
And up until recently, actually,I think there's been a
misconception out there, evenamong medical professionals,
including surgeons and handtherapists, that a finger
amputation is like no big deal.
In fact, it used to be termed aminor amputation.
And what we've learned?
There's been several studiesover the past decade or so where
it's, just from a physicalimpairment, It can be quite
extreme, but then there's also alarge psychosocial component to
(13:49):
the impairment as well.
And even more so there was astudy I think came out of, I
think, Hungary, where theylooked at, I actually I can't
remember exactly where the studycame out of, but they looked at
a group of people with partialhand amputation and then higher
levels of amputation, sotransradial or transhumeral, and
the group with partial handamputation self-reported a
(14:12):
higher level of disability thanthose with higher levels of
amputation.
So that to me tells me thatthere's a really large
psychological component to apartial, any amputation, but
really specifically a partialhand amputation.
So a lot of what we do is wetry to build awareness around
(14:34):
just that, that these are notminor amputations.
These do have a large impact onsomeone's ability to do the
things they want to do or takecare of their family or go back
to work, and so that used to bea barrier and I think that
barrier is decreasing.
Chris Maher (14:54):
Yeah, yeah, that giving back some more autonomy
and independence, which is soimportant.
So Levin, a big decision youhad to make in this process, as
you folks in 2000, late 16,early 17,.
It's like, hey, we're, we'regoing to commercialize this
thing, we're going to turn thisinto a business.
Can you talk about the decisionthat you made to to jump out of
(15:15):
being a professor and be coming
Levin Sliker (15:18):
Yeah, you know, I, I would say I wasn't thriving
in the academic environment.
It was something that I, youknow, I came away with a PhD in
mechanical engineering and itwas something I kind of felt
obligated to try.
You know, what do you do with aPhD?
A lot of people go intoacademia and so I felt, you know
(15:41):
, I should give it a shot.
And I didn't really thrive inthat environment.
So I was,I was already looking for, you
know, something else and whenthis opportunity came up, Jacob,
you know, he knew, knew mybackground, he knew me very well
and he was like, hey, do youwant to, you know, you want to
(16:02):
take this on?
And I was like, yeah, let's doit.
I'm just kind of I'm, I'm, it'skind of in my, you know, it's
who I am.
I tend to just go for thingslike if I, if I'm passionate
about it, and I and I want toaccomplish something, I you know
I get after it and I go for it.
(16:24):
So, you know, this in my mindwas no different and I was like,
let's do it, we'll figure itout.
So It was actually kind of aneasy decision and you know, at
the time I was I'm still young,but I was younger and it was a
fairly low risk for me, you knowpersonally, and I didn't have a
family at that point.
(16:44):
So you know, taking a, takingthat risk was something that
was, that was kind of an easydecision for me.
Chris Maher (16:54):
Yeah, and I think probably that that experience of
growing up with your mom anddad and having that, having that
entrepreneurial DNA, wasprobably a part of making that
decision easier.
So a couple other things thatI'd love to dig into with you is
talk a little bit about how youactually make the prosthetics
(17:15):
and this technology around 3Dprinting with metal I think most
people only think of 3Dprinting with, like plastic and
then how you funded that.
Right, because I think what youfolks have done is very unique
versus many startups, especiallyin the assistive tech and
disability startup space.
(17:36):
And so if you could talk alittle bit about how you
actually make the product andI'm assuming that first product
in 2017, you're severalgenerations past that, and so
there's been a lot ofdevelopment and iterations on
that and you had to fund that,and so if you could speak to
those two things.
Levin Sliker (17:52):
Yeah, definitely.
So I'll start with how we didthings early on, because it's
important.
It plays into why we were ableto do what we did.
So I mentioned before Dr.
Weir had a, he had a 3D printerin his lab.
So we actually set up a, youknow, a relationship.
(18:16):
We have always have had a goodrelationship with the university
, but we basically treated themas a vendor.
So the way that we build thesefingers is we we 3D print most
of the most of the componentsout of metal.
.
You know these, these machinesare expensive, million plus
dollars and of course you knowhe had one that, I think, was
(18:39):
that the actual purchase of thatmachine was funded by some VA
money.
So he had that, you know, inhis lab.
And the way this technologyworks is that the machine's
pretty big.
It takes up a, you know, ittakes up a room and it's got
quite a bit of ancillaryequipment required.
There's a chamber and insidethat chamber is a metal build
(19:03):
plate and the machine takes allthe oxygen out of that chamber
and fills it with an inert gasand then the machine lays down a
layer of powdered metal andthen there's a laser that comes
and centers that layer of metalto the base plate and then
(19:23):
another layer of powder getsplaced and then more centering,
more layer centering, layercentering, and then you
eventually have a 3D printedpart.
That has to be cut off thebuild plate.
So everything's metal.
There's no, you know there's,there's not multi-material.
You don don't have differentsupport material.
The support material is metal.
(19:43):
So there's actually a lot ofnuance to how you design parts
to optimize them for, howthey're oriented, how much
support material they require inorder to get printed, because
all that plays into how muchpost-processing is required
after the print is done.
There's quite a bit.
You've got to cut it off theplate, you've got to remove
(20:04):
support material, then you'vegot to usually grind, and then
you know, make it look pretty,and so that's kind of in general
how the the parts are made.
Then there's an assembly process.
So in the beginning, you knowwe had to make a decision like
how do we do this, how do wefund this?
And we kind of, we never evenreally considered going after VC
(20:30):
money.
We just sort of were like,let's try to figure, let's just
try to figure it out.
We're going to try to make oneand then we're going to try to
make another.
And we were lucky.
I guess what What helped enablethat is just the relationships
that we had.
So we used, the , as a vendorand at first we did everything
(20:52):
to order.
So we'd receive an order from acustomer, we'd go print the
parts, then we'd have thempost-processed, then we'd
assemble them, then we'd ship ,to the customer, then we'd
invoice them.
They'd pay us, then we'd payall our vendors.
So we just we set up, you know,really we had generous vendors
that had generous payment termsand we just worked really
(21:15):
closely with them.
then we just did that over andover and each time we did that
we retained some earnings.
We ran really lean.
at the beginning .
I didn't take a a, nobody took asalary for for, I don't know
know, at least a year .
we We operated out of Steven'sgarage and my basement .
(21:41):
and And then we just set upthese vendor.
You know, we just builtrelationships with vendors and
you know we were cash flowpositive from pretty much the
very beginning and then kind ofbuilt on top of that.
Now that only gets you so far,because it's really hard.
That's a really hard way to dothings, as you guys know.
When you need, you knoweventually we needed more space.
Chris Maher (22:01):
Hard to scale, making one unit at a time.
Levin Sliker (22:04):
Exactly.
Chris Maher (22:04):
But really creative way to start.
Levin Sliker (22:08):
Thanks, exactly, it's hard to scale.
It's hard to scale and it'salso hard to retain enough to
feed back into the business tomake improvements and develop
more products.
So at that point, you know, webecause.
.
.
Chris Maher (22:26):
So you guys got to remember like, okay, we need a
chunk of cash for investing inthe production so we can scale,
but also you need some, you needsome working capital.
As a manufacturing company,essentially, you need some
working capital too.
So like, so, where where'd yougo?
Levin Sliker (22:42):
Yeah.
So you know, at that point thatwas when we started kind of
considering other options andyou know investment versus, you
know, other ways that we we knewhow to get money and one of
those was through grants.
Right, we're all academics,we've all survived on grants at
one point or another.
So there there are a number ofdifferent small business
(23:05):
innovative research programsthrough the government.
NSF has one, NIH has one, Ithink the DOD even has one.
So we're in the right industryand we have the right background
to start applying for somegrant funding.
And we were successful.
(23:32):
So over the last nine yearswe've raised about 15 million in
grant funding and that has alsoin the last nine years we've
developed, we've put six moreproducts on the market.
So all that grant funding hasresulted in products that have
been commercialized, that peopleare using and wearing and are
having an impact.
So that's how we leverage,that's how we raised money and
(23:55):
for us it's worked really well.
Chris Maher (23:58):
Levin, that's awesome.
A couple of questions on that.
I know sometimes grant moneycomes in that is essentially
earmarked for just productdevelopment, where you can't
really pay salaries.
I'm assuming some of thosegrants you could kind of use any
way you want so you guys couldpay yourself salary, or you had
to wait until you weregenerating some revenue and paid
(24:20):
yourself salaries out ofrevenue.
Levin Sliker (24:23):
Yeah, so it's a little bit of both.
You are correct, there arerules about how you can use
grant funding and it isearmarked for R&D.
Most of the grants we'vereceived have been earmarked for
R&D.
But you can cover salaries aslong as it's R&D salaries.
So we did a little bit of both.
(24:45):
We, you know, we our first hireswere engineers.
We did not, we did not go outand hire a sales team because we
couldn't.
We hired engineers to developmore products because that's the
type of money that we hadcoming in.
So, yeah, it was a mostly youknow grant funding and then and
then revenue, right.
I mean, as revenue grew, thenwe were able to, you know, we
(25:08):
were able to reinvest theretained earnings from revenue
back into, you know, sales andmarketing and the things that
you can't spend the grantfunding on.
There's very few options grantfunding, although the state of
Colorado actually has some niceprograms where you can get some
(25:28):
limited funding to do some salesand marketing efforts and
expansion efforts, import-exportstuff.
Kelvin Crosby (25:38):
I mean, as you explain it.
I mean I've been doing 3Dprinting for a while myself and
I'm just like, wow, what if Icould have had that machine to
make my See Me Cane?
You know, that would havechanged a lot of things for me.
But what was interesting, asyou talked about your journey on
(26:03):
this, is the relationships.
And I think this is somethingthat is extremely important for
entrepreneurs to fullyunderstand.
Your relationships are the keyand that's what's going to be
your keys of your success.
And I mean that's the samething with my company, See Me C
(26:24):
ane, and really building thatout.
I mean I'm in a potentialopportunity that could be really
good for me and as I hear youtalk about, all right, this
relationship with university andjust working that system and it
(26:44):
just blows my mind away.
Like I didn't realize thatthis was possible.
I mean I think I've heard it inthe past just in passing, but
the way you described it and theway you scaled, I'm like, wow,
this is a whole other way tolook at running your business
Levin Sliker (27:02):
Yeah, and you're exactly right, but I will say I
think the stars aligned for us.
Because it's a whole other way,but it's actually quite
difficult to kind of put allthese pieces in place.
And for us it's just kind of Ithink it just kind of all lined
up kind of perfectly for us andit was like the right, you know,
(27:25):
the right application, theright market, the right
application, the right time, allthose things kind of kind of
aligned.
And then to build on yourcomment about relationships.
I think most entrepreneurs andfounders will echo the
(27:46):
importance.
But for us it was, it wasreally forced, right, we did
this because we had to.
I mean, we ran so lean in thebeginning and and I wore, you
know, most of the hats, if notall the hats.
And you know one thing, I thinkit's so important for founders
(28:06):
to get out there and be sellingthe product and talking to the
customers for as long and asmuch as you can, especially in
the early days, because you'rebuilding those relationships
that will hopefully belongstanding relationships and
may generate real opportunity inthe future.
And then you're also gettingfeedback.
You know quick feedback on yourproduct and one of the really
(28:30):
big benefits of additivemanufacturing is you can make
design changes quickly without ahuge amount of cost.
You don't have to do anyretooling or invest in new molds
.
You can make changes on the fly.
So we did a lot of that in theearly days as we realized what
was working, what wasn't working, what was failing, the feedback
(28:52):
we got and we made really quickiterations and we adapted to
the customer's needs veryquickly and I think that also
contributed to our success andthe reputation that we built for
ourselves.
Chris Maher (29:06):
Yeah, I think you raised a couple of really good
points there, Levin.
The founder sales is essential.
I think those founders thatdon't want to be out there in
the market selling in thebeginning and, as you say, one,
let's assume, the founder is themost knowledgeable person about
the product likely, but to beout there not only doing the
(29:27):
selling, but it's that feedbackyou're hearing from the market
that is so essential and thenincorporating that, bringing
that back to your product team.
And your business, because itis the 3d printing, it just
sounds like you were incrediblyagile and flexible and that is a
that is super unique to ahardware business.
I mean a lot of people.
It's like, oh, we've got to gettooling and molds and we're
(29:49):
having it made in China orVietnam or some manufacturing
partner that's in anothercountry and you're doing
everything here, initially atuniversity.
Now, I think, do you have afactory in?
Is it Utah?
Levin Sliker (30:01):
Yeah, we have a location in Colorado and Utah
and we actually do differentthings there.
But, yeah, we're nowmanufacturing.
So we moved from the university, we outgrew that one machine
and we had to find new partners.
So we found a few vendors thatwe've worked with very well over
the years and, most recently,our big effort the last year is
(30:23):
actually bringing a lot of thatmanufacturing in-house.
So now we have our own machines, we're printing parts in-house
and finishing them in-house, soeverything happens, it comes in.
We start with raw titaniumpowder and we finish all in the
same building with builttitanium fingers.
Chris Maher (30:44):
That's amazing.
That's amazing.
So let's, let's shift gears alittle bit to go to market,
right?
So you mentioned before like weraised money but like it really
had to be earmarked for, likeour engineering and product
teams and we really couldn'thire salespeople.
So, can you talk a little bitabout how you went to market?
I'm assuming maybe throughpartners.
You know channels, but alsoyou're considered a medical
(31:07):
device and so can you talk aboutnavigating that?
Is it class one, is it classtwo?
Kind of that whole process, aswell as finding partners to
bring it to market so you couldscale your revenue.
Levin Sliker (31:18):
Yeah, all good question.
So I'll start with theregulatory side.
We are fortunate that we'rebasically the lowest class,
lowest risk, class one deviceyou can get.
So what that means is we, youknow, we do have to have a
quality system established, butwe are GMP, so just good
(31:40):
manufacturing practices exempt,510k exempt.
So you know, really, from aregulatory standpoint it doesn't
get much easier.
You have to register and payyour dues and then maintain a
quality system that's incompliance with regulations.
So that is definitely a hurdlethat that, you know, could
(32:06):
regulatory.
The regulatory pathway can stopcompanies in their tracks and
so if that pathway had beendifferent or more complex, we
probably wouldn't have been ableto do what we did.
So and then to answer yoursecond question about you know
how did we go to market?
(32:27):
We had relationships with thelargest prosthetic clinical care
provider in the US, a companycalled Hanger Clinic.
They've got about now probably950 clinics across the United
States.
Back then I think it was maybe700.
(32:48):
So that was kind of low hangingfruit, right.
We had relationships with them.
So that was our first customerand they've, you know, they've
continued to be a great partnerever since.
So that was a really, you know,through a basically single
partnership, we were able toreally kind of ramp up sales
(33:09):
fairly quickly.
And then, of course, weestablished relationships with
other clinical care providersthat we knew to be, you know,
early adopters of technologylike this, and so that's kind of
how we started.
In the U S we've always donedirect sales.
It's a relatively complicatedproduct.
(33:30):
And so it's difficult to gothrough, you know, distribution
partners who just, you know,they've got a lot of different
products that they're trying torep and there's a lot of
education that has, you know,comes along with selling and
providing this kind of product.
So, we've always done directsales in the U S and we've just
(33:50):
kind of built up our customerbase organically throughout the
years.
Chris Maher (33:56):
And Levin quickly, is that direct sales to
consumers or to likerehabilitation centers?
Levin Sliker (34:05):
Good question.
Direct sales to prostheticclinics very specifically.
So sometimes those clinics arewithin a hospital system,
sometimes they're at a rehabcenter.
But yeah, it's a prostheticclinic.
They're staffed by certifiedprosthetists.
So you know, to get a certified, to get a certification in
(34:28):
prosthetics and orthotics, yougo through a master's program
and pass, you know it's a boardcertification process, residency
, and so that's who we sell to,that's our customer.
We don't sell directly toconsumers.
It's actually quite a, itrequires a lot of clinical
(34:50):
expertise to fit these deviceswell and get good outcomes.
So we've actually only talkedabout the finger so far.
But what is equally, if notmore important, is how that
device interfaces with thepatient's residual hand, and
that happens through what wecall a socket.
(35:12):
So a prosthetic socket isusually made up of a soft inner
liner that interfaces with theskin.
We build that out of siliconeand then a frame of some kind.
Traditionally it's been like acarbon fiber laminated frame,
but more recently we've startedto leverage additive
manufacturing.
So we print them out of nylon,so like multi-jet fusion
(35:36):
technology, and then the fingersbolt onto that.
So that whole process ofcreating a socket interface that
fits well, it's comfortable, itsuspends adequately.
When we say suspension, thatmeans how well does it stay on.
If you go to put yourprosthesis on and then go pick
(35:57):
up a bucket, you don't want theprosthesis to just slip off your
hand.
So there's a lot of clinicaltechniques.
Prosthetists have to have avery good understanding of
anatomy and the techniquesnecessary to make a well-fitting
prosthesis and also align thefingers, right.
(36:17):
So each finger has to bealigned on the socket so that
patient can do what they want todo.
So yeah, that's why we you knowwe will never sell directly to
consumers because we can't.
You know that there has to bethat layer of clinical expertise
to deliver these devices andget good outcome
Kelvin Crosby (36:37):
Yeah, I mean here's the other question I have
is how are you using AI to helpyou with this workflow?
I mean, this sounds verycomplicated.
Levin Sliker (36:48):
It's a really good question.
It's one that's kind of in flux, right.
You know, AI is such a fastpaced.
It's just so fast paced rightnow.
You know we're constantlytrying to keep up with the
latest and greatest.
But yeah, we do incorporate itas much as we can and we're
(37:10):
trying to incorporate it moreand more.
You know it's interesting.
Every single prosthesis we makeis unique, right?
No amputation is exactly likeanother.
So there's a lot of manualsteps involved and there's a lot
(37:37):
of customization involved inmaking a prosthesis.
But it is ripe for, I think,disruption by AI and we've got
some ideas that we're working onto implement it.
Chris Maher (37:47):
Yeah, that's super exciting.
So, Levin, everything you justshared.
First of all, it's fascinating.
I could talk to you for hoursabout hearing about how you make
these prosthetics.
It's just amazing, but itsounds like It's not cheap, and
so how does the end user pay forthis?
I mean, you're giving people aprosthetic that can be
(38:09):
transformative for their lives,but how are they paying for it?
Levin Sliker (38:13):
It's a really good question.
We have kind of three pillarsin how we conduct business right
.
So we have a mission and thenwe have these three kind of
pillars of activities that we doto accomplish that mission.
And the first is innovation.
I think we've kind of talkedsomewhat about that.
The second is education, whichwe've talked a little bit about
(38:38):
building awareness and justeducating people.
And the third is advocacy.
And so we have taken it uponourselves to advocate for this
patient population becausehistorically it's been
underserved, and part of thereason for that is there have
not been clear ways for thesedevices to get paid for.
(39:00):
The majority of cases that weget involved with are work
injuries where there's a workerscompensation company or
insurance that kicks in.
They've actually beenincredibly supportive of what
we're doing.
They understand the value andso they are willing to pay for
(39:21):
devices like these because theysee that these devices enable
people to get back to work,which is what everybody wants in
that kind of situation.
So that's really kind of themajority of cases that we deal
with, but that leaves a biggroup of people that still don't
(39:42):
have access to these devices.
So one of the things we've beenworking on very hard over the
last two years is to establishsome new billing codes.
So to do this, you have to workwith the Centers for Medicare
and Medicaid Services.
You have to apply for new codes, show up to public hearings.
It's a lot of work and there'stwo applications per year, so
(40:06):
you get two chances per year tosubmit for new codes.
So over the last two yearswe've worked very hard and we've
started to make some progress.
So this early 2025, we did getsome new codes established for
the socket level, so the socketthat I was just describing.
We got some new codesestablished for that component
(40:30):
or part of the prosthesis andthen we're working on getting
some codes established for theterminal devices or the actual
fingers themselves.
So we're really excited aboutit.
That means you know, once thathappens, it means access is is
opened for a bigger part of thepatient population.
So right now you know insurance, insurance.
(40:56):
Our goal is to have insurancecover all of these devices.
So currently mostly workers'compensation, but some private
insurance will also fund thesedevices.
But ultimately we hope to havebilling codes established with
CMS.
Chris Maher (41:14):
Yeah Well, your mission is fantastic and kudos
to you guys, and it sounds likeyou've done a really good job of
balancing the entrepreneurship,the commercialization and the
advocacy.
Kelvin and I we're going to doan episode about advocacy and
entrepreneurship because I thinkall of the, especially with the
work I'm doing right now withthe Samaritan Fund, all the
(41:37):
entrepreneurs that I talk to aretrying to balance that
entrepreneurship versus theadvocacy.
But it sounds like you guyshave done a really good job, so
congratulations and justfantastic.
I've got a couple quickquestions before we wrap things
up here.
On the funding side of things,the route you took, and I'm
making an assumption here, buttell me if I'm wrong, probably a
(41:59):
little bit slower of a processin terms of your growth and your
journey.
In hindsight, would you do itdifferently and take, say,
venture money or other privatecapital to accelerate things, or
would you do it the way you didagain?
Levin Sliker (42:18):
I think I'd do it the same way.
And a couple of reasons forthat.
I mean, the slow growth is, youknow, it's okay if you're okay
with it.
And as founders we were okaywith it.
It enabled us to kind of focuson, you know, like we sort of
(42:39):
had a little bit more time tomake some of these decisions.
Our team grew a little bitslower, so we were able to
establish the culture that wewanted within our organization.
You know, all those thingsbecome harder when you scale
quickly.
Right.
It's really hard to scale andmaintain the culture that you
(42:59):
want.
So, yeah, I think I'd do thingsthe same.
Chris Maher (43:08):
Very thoughtful process you went through and and
I admire that greatly.
The the next question is Iguess, maybe advice or tips for
entrepreneurs that maybe aren't,as I mean, you folks now have
scaled and you're in themillions of dollars of revenue
and I've been at this for comingup on the better part of a
decade.
Any words of wisdom for theentrepreneurs out there and
(43:30):
maybe specifically in kind ofthat medical device space that
are embarking on that journeyand that are at an earlier stage
, any advice or words of wisdomfor them?
Levin Sliker (43:39):
Yeah, I mean, you know, I think one of the things
that helped me is justsurrounding myself with good
people that shared the missionor shared the passion for the
mission and also hadcomplementary skill sets to my
own.
(43:59):
That really set us up forsuccess.
And you know, having kind ofcarefully picking who you, who
you work with.
So the first thing you have todo is decide, you know, are you
going to have co-founders andwho are those co-founders going
to be?
That can have a huge impact onon how successful you are.
(44:22):
The co-founder dynamics, I think, are sort of under, you know, I
think things can go reallybadly.
I think it's sort ofunderplayed sometimes how
important it is to have, youknow, good people by your side,
and I was very fortunate to haveamazing co-founders.
We all have really greatrelationships today.
(44:45):
We all still work together.
You know we're all stillinvolved.
And then and then you know, tothat point it's like who do you
hire, right?
And the next step is like whodo you hire and who do you work
(45:09):
and who do you choose to workwith?
So I think I've always felt thatwhat we have done and
accomplished wouldn't bepossible without the people.
Like I didn't do this by myself, like it was me and, you know,
three other co-founders and thena great team of people that we
assembled.
So it's it's really for me,it's like it's all about the
people that you put together,and so I think that's been the
most helpful for me.
Chris Maher (45:30):
Gotcha.
Kelvin, any final questionsbefore I ask Levin.
.
.
Kelvin Crosby (45:34):
I am just fascinated.
Chris Maher (45:37):
it really is.
Kelvin Crosby (45:38):
I'm just like this is awesome.
Chris Maher (45:41):
We're going to put in the show notes where people
can go see these products.
These prosthetics areincredible.
But, Kelvin, do you have anyfinal questions for Levin before
we let him go and we ask himhow people can connect with them
?
Kelvin Crosby (45:55):
No, how can people connect with you?
Chris Maher (45:59):
Levin, how can people connect with you?
Levin Sliker (46:02):
I mean, I'm not super active on social media,
but I'm on LinkedIn quite a bit, so find me on LinkedIn,
connect with me, shoot me amessage, tell me you heard the
podcast and that's probably thebest way to connect with me.
And come check out our website,wwwpointdesignscom, check out
what we're doing and, yeah, Iwould be happy to connect and
(46:26):
talk.
Prosthetics.
Chris Maher (46:29):
Awesome.
Well, Levin has been anabsolute pleasure, my friend,
Thank you so much and andhopefully we'll talk to you
again soon.
Levin Sliker (46:36):
Yeah, thanks, Chris and Kelvin, it's been
great.
Kelvin Crosby (46:39):
That wraps up Investing in Accessibility and
go live beyond your challengesand we'll see you in two weeks.
Thank you for listening toInvesting in Accessibility, a
Samaritan Partners podcast wherewe invest in change for
accessibility, not wait forchange.
(47:00):
If you want to follow us, youcan find us on youtube or
LinkedIn at @Samaritan Partners.
If you would like to invest inSamaritan Partners, email Chris
at chris@samaritanpartners.
com.
If you'd like to learn moreabout us, go to www.
samaritanpartners.
com.
You can take the first step ininvesting in change by giving us
(47:22):
five stars and sharing thispodcast with everybody that you
know, so we can spread the word,so that we can give access to
all, by Investing inAccessibility.
Welcome to Investing in Accessibility, a
Samaritan Partners podcast.
We're not waiting for change,we're investing in it.
Join us as we speak withentrepreneurs and thought
leaders that are focused oncreating a more accessible world
.
(00:30):
Hey, so good to see you, eventhough I can't see you.
It's another beautiful day inthe neighborhood and I'm so
excited that you're here atInvesting in Accessibility, and
I'm your host, Calvin Crosby,and my co-host, Chris Maher.
How you doing, man?
Chris Maher (00:45):
Good buddy, good to see you and be with you today.
Kelvin Crosby (00:47):
Yeah, I mean, have you ever thought about
losing your finger and thenthinking about you could replace
it with a 3D printer?
Chris Maher (00:56):
No, I haven't until until I met our guest.
Kelvin Crosby (00:59):
I mean that to me seems fascinating, like okay,
you lose your finger, and thenyou could get a new one and it
could be 3D printed for you.
Chris Maher (01:11):
Yeah, or you could be born with a limb difference.
Kelvin Crosby (01:14):
Yep, and that is truly a fascinating concept.
So let's figure out who ourguest is.
Chris Maher (01:23):
You got it, well, we have the great pleasure today
of welcoming someone who I hadthe good fortune of meeting
through a mutual friend, whichwe'll get into in a second, but
let's welcome our guest.
And our guest today is LevinSliker, who is the co-founder
and CEO of a company calledPoint Designs.
Welcome Levin.
Levin Sliker (01:40):
Thank you, Chris, thank you, Kelvin.
It's great to be here.
I really appreciate theopportunity.
Well, it's our pleasure to haveyou, and the way that Levin and
I met several months ago wasactually through a mutual
contact who is a dear, dearfriend of mine, who lives in the
Boulder area where Levin is,but a gentleman named Brendan
McGuire.
A little shout out to BrendanMcGuire, who I actually spoke to
(02:02):
earlier this week, but Brendanand I worked together gosh, 20
years ago, and have continued tostay great friends to this day,
and he and I were catching up afew months ago.
He's like hey, chris, I got tointroduce you to this
entrepreneur that I know here inBoulder and he's got this
amazing company.
And so it's amazing how theuniverse conspires to bring
folks together.
So good to have you here, Levin.
I think where we should start,because you have a unique
(02:25):
background and the growth andtrajectory of your company, I
think, is a little bit differentthan the normal path of a
startup, and so I think let'smaybe start with just your
personal background, because youcame from the world of academia
, not really from the world ofbusiness initially, and so let's
just let you kind of take usfrom the beginning and the arc
(02:46):
of your career and how you cameto Point Designs.
Yeah, I'm going to .
Actually I'm going to starteven before that because I think
it's relevant to the story.
I grew up in Colorado Springs,excuse me, and I watched my
parents run and operate and owna veterinary hospital and that I
(03:08):
think that's relevant laterbecause people always ask me
like did you go to businessschool?
Like how'd you learn how to runa business and lead a team and
and and do this?
And I think my answer hasalways been I think I just
learned it through osmosis as akid because my parents kind of
lived, breathed, worked and Ijust kind of learned by
(03:30):
observing.
So, bounce forward, you know, 10or 15 years, I went to
University of Colorado, Boulder,for college mechanical
engineering.
I ended up in school for almost10 years.
I got three degrees from themechanical engineering
department and during gradschool I was pulled into a
(03:52):
project, or very interested in aproject, completely unrelated
to prosthetics.
I was doing research on thebiomechanics of gastrointestinal
tissue for surgical robotics inthe GI space, And, I've always
been drawn to helping people andso the medical device field is
(04:16):
a natural way for me to leveragemy engineering skills and
background and also help peopleskills and background and also
help people.
So after graduating fromUniversity of Colorado, I then
took a faculty position in thebioengineering department on the
Anschutz Medical Campus.
So same university, differentcampus and it was there that I
(04:37):
started getting involved inassistive technology projects.
So I actually worked on avariety of different things from
wheelchair systems and seating,fall detection, social
assistive robotics and then gotinvolved in this project to
develop prosthetic fingertechnology.
So I got pulled in.
(05:00):
It was actually a graduateschool friend named Jacob Siegel
.
I went through graduate schoolwith him and his advisor, his
PhD advisor, Richard Weir, andthen a colleague of ours Richard
Stevens.
So the four of us co-foundedPoint Designs in 2016.
And kind of leading up to that,we did a lot of the development
(05:23):
work in the university, in theuniversity setting, so it kind
of enabled us to, you know, wedid leverage some university
resources to do that work, whichkind of helped us kickstart the
technology.
And the need for the technologywas born directly from industry.
Richard Weir had somelongstanding relationships with
(05:46):
prosthetists and they startedcoming to him, knowing the
capabilities of his lab at CUand they said we don't have
prosthetic fingers that don'tbreak.
We need something that doesn'tbreak.
And so we set out to do that.
And Richard, he had acquired a3D printer that printed metal
(06:11):
and we started designing thesefinger mechanisms out of 3D
printed metal.
We worked on that for a coupleof years and at one point, the
guy who kind of came to him withthe idea in the first place
said I think it's ready, whencan I buy it?
And it was at that point wherewe're like, okay, well, what are
(06:33):
the next steps?
So that was 2016.
And we created a company, wedid a few things to get
ourselves ready and we sold ourfirst system in January of 2017.
Chris Maher (06:50):
Wow, wow.
So thank you for taking usthrough the the the arc of that
journey, and thank you forsharing the story about
observing and watching yourparents run their business as a
child, and so we talk a lotabout lived experience on this
podcast, and a lot of times it'sin relation to disability, but
(07:14):
it also can be in relation toentrepreneurship.
And so I have no doubt that youwatching your parents run their
business for those years,because the entrepreneurial
journey is not for everyone, andto experience that, I'm sure
that you are using lessons andobservations from watching them
run their business every day, asyou're now the CEO of this
business.
(07:34):
So thank you for sharing that.
My first question is, so youincorporated the business in
what late 16, 2017, and had amarket-ready product that you
were selling at that point.
How many years was it indevelopment up until that time?
Levin Sliker (07:54):
Yeah, I think we probably started development and
I'll be fully transparent hereI was not involved in the very
first stages of development.
I got pulled in probably around2014.
But development startedprobably 2013, 2012, 2013.
So about three years ofdevelopment, kind of back and
(08:16):
forth.
I don't know how manyprototypes, but about three
years of development.
Chris Maher (08:21):
And that was all within Professor Weir, right
Within his lab, within theuniversity, kind of being funded
through the university duringthat time, and he's using PhD
students to help him developthings,
Kelvin Crosby (08:36):
Well, I mean, what's fascinating is one of my
first projects.
I did a very similar, not sameproject, but used the same model
.
And as this kind of starteddeveloping, I'm curious did you
guys ever see this becoming abusiness when you guys were
developing this, or was italways like this is just a
(08:57):
university project?
Levin Sliker (08:58):
Yeah, I mean.
So, honestly, the answer is no.
We did not see this as being assuccessful of a business as as
it has become.
We were honestly just.
You know we're technologists atheart.
You know, all four founders areengineers.
We like to build cool stuffthat makes an impact, and that's
(09:24):
really what we set out to do isjust like solve a need that we
had identified and then, itbecome aparent
Well, it became apparent.
We always, we always did knowthe market size, right.
There there is a, we knew thatthe partial hand space, like so
people with partial handamputations, historically have
(09:47):
been underserved.
They have not had nearly asmany options as other levels of
amputation or lower limbamputation and the incidence
rate is much higher.
So there's just a biggerpatient population.
Chris Maher (10:04):
Can you give us a sense of the size of that
population?
Levin Sliker (10:07):
Yeah, so total number in the US is a little
hard to nail down, but annuallyin the US about 50,000
individuals undergo a partialand amputation traumatically.
Chris Maher (10:23):
And that number is larger than lower limb
amputations.
Levin Sliker (10:29):
It's about the same as so in the number of
fingers.
So you can count it a couple ofways.
Number of fingers and number ofindividuals.
And if you look at the numberof fingers amputated annually,
it's about equivalent to thenumber of upper leg amputations
that happen annually, which isabout 120,000 per year.
Kelvin Crosby (10:53):
Wow, Wow.
I mean, do you find, as youwere doing this research, like
was it mind-blowing to yourealizing like this is a lot
bigger deal?
Like my mechanic that works onmy wife's car, he's missing half
of his finger.
I'm like this would be a goodproduct for him, but he just he
(11:15):
doesn't want to get anything atthe moment.
Honestly, now that I thinkabout it, I know firsthand, as I
start thinking through this,about 20 people that are missing
a finger or part of the hand orsomething like that.
And I mean I wanted to make ajoke.
(11:36):
As you were saying this, I waslike I mean, the amputee hands
lifestyle has always been the,the pirate.
You know, you got your hook,that's it.
You don't got anything elsefancy.
And I thought this is this, isthis is mind blowing to me, Like
, like how underserved as youwere talking about it.
(11:56):
Like this seems like commonsense.
I think I've heard that before.
This seems like common sense,but why hasn't it been done
before?
Chris Maher (12:09):
Well, and also the market came to you, came to
Professor Weir.
So it was obviously a gap inthe market, right, it was a
problem worth solving.
Levin Sliker (12:22):
Yeah, I mean just in response to what Kelvin was
saying.
I mean I think you know one ofthe things that we, the
technology is actuallyrelatively simple, right?
So you know.
You ask the question well, youknow, why aren't there more
options?
The technology is relativelysimple, but you know there are a
lot of, I guess, there are somebarriers to entry, one of them
(12:47):
being funding, not on gettingthe company funded, but on
actually getting the devicespaid for.
Maybe we can get into that more, maybe not, but that is a
challenge, it's a barrier.
If you don't know that yourproduct is going to get paid for
, then why?
You know why?
Why develop it and put in theresources to develop it.
(13:24):
And up until recently, actually,I think there's been a
misconception out there, evenamong medical professionals,
including surgeons and handtherapists, that a finger
amputation is like no big deal.
In fact, it used to be termed aminor amputation.
And what we've learned?
There's been several studiesover the past decade or so where
it's, just from a physicalimpairment, It can be quite
extreme, but then there's also alarge psychosocial component to
(13:49):
the impairment as well.
And even more so there was astudy I think came out of, I
think, Hungary, where theylooked at, I actually I can't
remember exactly where the studycame out of, but they looked at
a group of people with partialhand amputation and then higher
levels of amputation, sotransradial or transhumeral, and
the group with partial handamputation self-reported a
(14:12):
higher level of disability thanthose with higher levels of
amputation.
So that to me tells me thatthere's a really large
psychological component to apartial, any amputation, but
really specifically a partialhand amputation.
So a lot of what we do is wetry to build awareness around
(14:34):
just that, that these are notminor amputations.
These do have a large impact onsomeone's ability to do the
things they want to do or takecare of their family or go back
to work, and so that used to bea barrier and I think that
barrier is decreasing.
Chris Maher (14:54):
Yeah, yeah, that giving back some more autonomy
and independence, which is soimportant.
So Levin, a big decision youhad to make in this process, as
you folks in 2000, late 16,early 17,.
It's like, hey, we're, we'regoing to commercialize this
thing, we're going to turn thisinto a business.
Can you talk about the decisionthat you made to to jump out of
(15:15):
being a professor and be coming
Levin Sliker (15:18):
Yeah, you know, I, I would say I wasn't thriving
in the academic environment.
It was something that I, youknow, I came away with a PhD in
mechanical engineering and itwas something I kind of felt
obligated to try.
You know, what do you do with aPhD?
A lot of people go intoacademia and so I felt, you know
(15:41):
, I should give it a shot.
And I didn't really thrive inthat environment.
So I was,I was already looking for, you
know, something else and whenthis opportunity came up, Jacob,
you know, he knew, knew mybackground, he knew me very well
and he was like, hey, do youwant to, you know, you want to
(16:02):
take this on?
And I was like, yeah, let's doit.
I'm just kind of I'm, I'm, it'skind of in my, you know, it's
who I am.
I tend to just go for thingslike if I, if I'm passionate
about it, and I and I want toaccomplish something, I you know
I get after it and I go for it.
(16:24):
So, you know, this in my mindwas no different and I was like,
let's do it, we'll figure itout.
So It was actually kind of aneasy decision and you know, at
the time I was I'm still young,but I was younger and it was a
fairly low risk for me, you knowpersonally, and I didn't have a
family at that point.
(16:44):
So you know, taking a, takingthat risk was something that
was, that was kind of an easydecision for me.
Chris Maher (16:54):
Yeah, and I think probably that that experience of
growing up with your mom anddad and having that, having that
entrepreneurial DNA, wasprobably a part of making that
decision easier.
So a couple other things thatI'd love to dig into with you is
talk a little bit about how youactually make the prosthetics
(17:15):
and this technology around 3Dprinting with metal I think most
people only think of 3Dprinting with, like plastic and
then how you funded that.
Right, because I think what youfolks have done is very unique
versus many startups, especiallyin the assistive tech and
disability startup space.
(17:36):
And so if you could talk alittle bit about how you
actually make the product andI'm assuming that first product
in 2017, you're severalgenerations past that, and so
there's been a lot ofdevelopment and iterations on
that and you had to fund that,and so if you could speak to
those two things.
Levin Sliker (17:52):
Yeah, definitely.
So I'll start with how we didthings early on, because it's
important.
It plays into why we were ableto do what we did.
So I mentioned before Dr.
Weir had a, he had a 3D printerin his lab.
So we actually set up a, youknow, a relationship.
(18:16):
We have always have had a goodrelationship with the university
, but we basically treated themas a vendor.
So the way that we build thesefingers is we we 3D print most
of the most of the componentsout of metal.
.
You know these, these machinesare expensive, million plus
dollars and of course you knowhe had one that, I think, was
(18:39):
that the actual purchase of thatmachine was funded by some VA
money.
So he had that, you know, inhis lab.
And the way this technologyworks is that the machine's
pretty big.
It takes up a, you know, ittakes up a room and it's got
quite a bit of ancillaryequipment required.
There's a chamber and insidethat chamber is a metal build
(19:03):
plate and the machine takes allthe oxygen out of that chamber
and fills it with an inert gasand then the machine lays down a
layer of powdered metal andthen there's a laser that comes
and centers that layer of metalto the base plate and then
(19:23):
another layer of powder getsplaced and then more centering,
more layer centering, layercentering, and then you
eventually have a 3D printedpart.
That has to be cut off thebuild plate.
So everything's metal.
There's no, you know there's,there's not multi-material.
You don don't have differentsupport material.
The support material is metal.
(19:43):
So there's actually a lot ofnuance to how you design parts
to optimize them for, howthey're oriented, how much
support material they require inorder to get printed, because
all that plays into how muchpost-processing is required
after the print is done.
There's quite a bit.
You've got to cut it off theplate, you've got to remove
(20:04):
support material, then you'vegot to usually grind, and then
you know, make it look pretty,and so that's kind of in general
how the the parts are made.
Then there's an assembly process.
So in the beginning, you knowwe had to make a decision like
how do we do this, how do wefund this?
And we kind of, we never evenreally considered going after VC
(20:30):
money.
We just sort of were like,let's try to figure, let's just
try to figure it out.
We're going to try to make oneand then we're going to try to
make another.
And we were lucky.
I guess what What helped enablethat is just the relationships
that we had.
So we used, the , as a vendorand at first we did everything
(20:52):
to order.
So we'd receive an order from acustomer, we'd go print the
parts, then we'd have thempost-processed, then we'd
assemble them, then we'd ship ,to the customer, then we'd
invoice them.
They'd pay us, then we'd payall our vendors.
So we just we set up, you know,really we had generous vendors
that had generous payment termsand we just worked really
(21:15):
closely with them.
then we just did that over andover and each time we did that
we retained some earnings.
We ran really lean.
at the beginning .
I didn't take a a, nobody took asalary for for, I don't know
know, at least a year .
we We operated out of Steven'sgarage and my basement .
(21:41):
and And then we just set upthese vendor.
You know, we just builtrelationships with vendors and
you know we were cash flowpositive from pretty much the
very beginning and then kind ofbuilt on top of that.
Now that only gets you so far,because it's really hard.
That's a really hard way to dothings, as you guys know.
When you need, you knoweventually we needed more space.
Chris Maher (22:01):
Hard to scale, making one unit at a time.
Levin Sliker (22:04):
Exactly.
Chris Maher (22:04):
But really creative way to start.
Levin Sliker (22:08):
Thanks, exactly, it's hard to scale.
It's hard to scale and it'salso hard to retain enough to
feed back into the business tomake improvements and develop
more products.
So at that point, you know, webecause.
.
.
Chris Maher (22:26):
So you guys got to remember like, okay, we need a
chunk of cash for investing inthe production so we can scale,
but also you need some, you needsome working capital.
As a manufacturing company,essentially, you need some
working capital too.
So like, so, where where'd yougo?
Levin Sliker (22:42):
Yeah.
So you know, at that point thatwas when we started kind of
considering other options andyou know investment versus, you
know, other ways that we we knewhow to get money and one of
those was through grants.
Right, we're all academics,we've all survived on grants at
one point or another.
So there there are a number ofdifferent small business
(23:05):
innovative research programsthrough the government.
NSF has one, NIH has one, Ithink the DOD even has one.
So we're in the right industryand we have the right background
to start applying for somegrant funding.
And we were successful.
(23:32):
So over the last nine yearswe've raised about 15 million in
grant funding and that has alsoin the last nine years we've
developed, we've put six moreproducts on the market.
So all that grant funding hasresulted in products that have
been commercialized, that peopleare using and wearing and are
having an impact.
So that's how we leverage,that's how we raised money and
(23:55):
for us it's worked really well.
Chris Maher (23:58):
Levin, that's awesome.
A couple of questions on that.
I know sometimes grant moneycomes in that is essentially
earmarked for just productdevelopment, where you can't
really pay salaries.
I'm assuming some of thosegrants you could kind of use any
way you want so you guys couldpay yourself salary, or you had
to wait until you weregenerating some revenue and paid
(24:20):
yourself salaries out ofrevenue.
Levin Sliker (24:23):
Yeah, so it's a little bit of both.
You are correct, there arerules about how you can use
grant funding and it isearmarked for R&D.
Most of the grants we'vereceived have been earmarked for
R&D.
But you can cover salaries aslong as it's R&D salaries.
So we did a little bit of both.
(24:45):
We, you know, we our first hireswere engineers.
We did not, we did not go outand hire a sales team because we
couldn't.
We hired engineers to developmore products because that's the
type of money that we hadcoming in.
So, yeah, it was a mostly youknow grant funding and then and
then revenue, right.
I mean, as revenue grew, thenwe were able to, you know, we
(25:08):
were able to reinvest theretained earnings from revenue
back into, you know, sales andmarketing and the things that
you can't spend the grantfunding on.
There's very few options grantfunding, although the state of
Colorado actually has some niceprograms where you can get some
(25:28):
limited funding to do some salesand marketing efforts and
expansion efforts, import-exportstuff.
Kelvin Crosby (25:38):
I mean, as you explain it.
I mean I've been doing 3Dprinting for a while myself and
I'm just like, wow, what if Icould have had that machine to
make my See Me Cane?
You know, that would havechanged a lot of things for me.
But what was interesting, asyou talked about your journey on
(26:03):
this, is the relationships.
And I think this is somethingthat is extremely important for
entrepreneurs to fullyunderstand.
Your relationships are the keyand that's what's going to be
your keys of your success.
And I mean that's the samething with my company, See Me C
(26:24):
ane, and really building thatout.
I mean I'm in a potentialopportunity that could be really
good for me and as I hear youtalk about, all right, this
relationship with university andjust working that system and it
(26:44):
just blows my mind away.
Like I didn't realize thatthis was possible.
I mean I think I've heard it inthe past just in passing, but
the way you described it and theway you scaled, I'm like, wow,
this is a whole other way tolook at running your business
Levin Sliker (27:02):
Yeah, and you're exactly right, but I will say I
think the stars aligned for us.
Because it's a whole other way,but it's actually quite
difficult to kind of put allthese pieces in place.
And for us it's just kind of Ithink it just kind of all lined
up kind of perfectly for us andit was like the right, you know,
(27:25):
the right application, theright market, the right
application, the right time, allthose things kind of kind of
aligned.
And then to build on yourcomment about relationships.
I think most entrepreneurs andfounders will echo the
(27:46):
importance.
But for us it was, it wasreally forced, right, we did
this because we had to.
I mean, we ran so lean in thebeginning and and I wore, you
know, most of the hats, if notall the hats.
And you know one thing, I thinkit's so important for founders
(28:06):
to get out there and be sellingthe product and talking to the
customers for as long and asmuch as you can, especially in
the early days, because you'rebuilding those relationships
that will hopefully belongstanding relationships and
may generate real opportunity inthe future.
And then you're also gettingfeedback.
You know quick feedback on yourproduct and one of the really
(28:30):
big benefits of additivemanufacturing is you can make
design changes quickly without ahuge amount of cost.
You don't have to do anyretooling or invest in new molds
.
You can make changes on the fly.
So we did a lot of that in theearly days as we realized what
was working, what wasn't working, what was failing, the feedback
(28:52):
we got and we made really quickiterations and we adapted to
the customer's needs veryquickly and I think that also
contributed to our success andthe reputation that we built for
ourselves.
Chris Maher (29:06):
Yeah, I think you raised a couple of really good
points there, Levin.
The founder sales is essential.
I think those founders thatdon't want to be out there in
the market selling in thebeginning and, as you say, one,
let's assume, the founder is themost knowledgeable person about
the product likely, but to beout there not only doing the
(29:27):
selling, but it's that feedbackyou're hearing from the market
that is so essential and thenincorporating that, bringing
that back to your product team.
And your business, because itis the 3d printing, it just
sounds like you were incrediblyagile and flexible and that is a
that is super unique to ahardware business.
I mean a lot of people.
It's like, oh, we've got to gettooling and molds and we're
(29:49):
having it made in China orVietnam or some manufacturing
partner that's in anothercountry and you're doing
everything here, initially atuniversity.
Now, I think, do you have afactory in?
Is it Utah?
Levin Sliker (30:01):
Yeah, we have a location in Colorado and Utah
and we actually do differentthings there.
But, yeah, we're nowmanufacturing.
So we moved from the university, we outgrew that one machine
and we had to find new partners.
So we found a few vendors thatwe've worked with very well over
the years and, most recently,our big effort the last year is
(30:23):
actually bringing a lot of thatmanufacturing in-house.
So now we have our own machines, we're printing parts in-house
and finishing them in-house, soeverything happens, it comes in.
We start with raw titaniumpowder and we finish all in the
same building with builttitanium fingers.
Chris Maher (30:44):
That's amazing.
That's amazing.
So let's, let's shift gears alittle bit to go to market,
right?
So you mentioned before like weraised money but like it really
had to be earmarked for, likeour engineering and product
teams and we really couldn'thire salespeople.
So, can you talk a little bitabout how you went to market?
I'm assuming maybe throughpartners.
You know channels, but alsoyou're considered a medical
(31:07):
device and so can you talk aboutnavigating that?
Is it class one, is it classtwo?
Kind of that whole process, aswell as finding partners to
bring it to market so you couldscale your revenue.
Levin Sliker (31:18):
Yeah, all good question.
So I'll start with theregulatory side.
We are fortunate that we'rebasically the lowest class,
lowest risk, class one deviceyou can get.
So what that means is we, youknow, we do have to have a
quality system established, butwe are GMP, so just good
(31:40):
manufacturing practices exempt,510k exempt.
So you know, really, from aregulatory standpoint it doesn't
get much easier.
You have to register and payyour dues and then maintain a
quality system that's incompliance with regulations.
So that is definitely a hurdlethat that, you know, could
(32:06):
regulatory.
The regulatory pathway can stopcompanies in their tracks and
so if that pathway had beendifferent or more complex, we
probably wouldn't have been ableto do what we did.
So and then to answer yoursecond question about you know
how did we go to market?
(32:27):
We had relationships with thelargest prosthetic clinical care
provider in the US, a companycalled Hanger Clinic.
They've got about now probably950 clinics across the United
States.
Back then I think it was maybe700.
(32:48):
So that was kind of low hangingfruit, right.
We had relationships with them.
So that was our first customerand they've, you know, they've
continued to be a great partnerever since.
So that was a really, you know,through a basically single
partnership, we were able toreally kind of ramp up sales
(33:09):
fairly quickly.
And then, of course, weestablished relationships with
other clinical care providersthat we knew to be, you know,
early adopters of technologylike this, and so that's kind of
how we started.
In the U S we've always donedirect sales.
It's a relatively complicatedproduct.
(33:30):
And so it's difficult to gothrough, you know, distribution
partners who just, you know,they've got a lot of different
products that they're trying torep and there's a lot of
education that has, you know,comes along with selling and
providing this kind of product.
So, we've always done directsales in the U S and we've just
(33:50):
kind of built up our customerbase organically throughout the
years.
Chris Maher (33:56):
And Levin quickly, is that direct sales to
consumers or to likerehabilitation centers?
Levin Sliker (34:05):
Good question.
Direct sales to prostheticclinics very specifically.
So sometimes those clinics arewithin a hospital system,
sometimes they're at a rehabcenter.
But yeah, it's a prostheticclinic.
They're staffed by certifiedprosthetists.
So you know, to get a certified, to get a certification in
(34:28):
prosthetics and orthotics, yougo through a master's program
and pass, you know it's a boardcertification process, residency
, and so that's who we sell to,that's our customer.
We don't sell directly toconsumers.
It's actually quite a, itrequires a lot of clinical
(34:50):
expertise to fit these deviceswell and get good outcomes.
So we've actually only talkedabout the finger so far.
But what is equally, if notmore important, is how that
device interfaces with thepatient's residual hand, and
that happens through what wecall a socket.
(35:12):
So a prosthetic socket isusually made up of a soft inner
liner that interfaces with theskin.
We build that out of siliconeand then a frame of some kind.
Traditionally it's been like acarbon fiber laminated frame,
but more recently we've startedto leverage additive
manufacturing.
So we print them out of nylon,so like multi-jet fusion
(35:36):
technology, and then the fingersbolt onto that.
So that whole process ofcreating a socket interface that
fits well, it's comfortable, itsuspends adequately.
When we say suspension, thatmeans how well does it stay on.
If you go to put yourprosthesis on and then go pick
(35:57):
up a bucket, you don't want theprosthesis to just slip off your
hand.
So there's a lot of clinicaltechniques.
Prosthetists have to have avery good understanding of
anatomy and the techniquesnecessary to make a well-fitting
prosthesis and also align thefingers, right.
(36:17):
So each finger has to bealigned on the socket so that
patient can do what they want todo.
So yeah, that's why we you knowwe will never sell directly to
consumers because we can't.
You know that there has to bethat layer of clinical expertise
to deliver these devices andget good outcome
Kelvin Crosby (36:37):
Yeah, I mean here's the other question I have
is how are you using AI to helpyou with this workflow?
I mean, this sounds verycomplicated.
Levin Sliker (36:48):
It's a really good question.
It's one that's kind of in flux, right.
You know, AI is such a fastpaced.
It's just so fast paced rightnow.
You know we're constantlytrying to keep up with the
latest and greatest.
But yeah, we do incorporate itas much as we can and we're
(37:10):
trying to incorporate it moreand more.
You know it's interesting.
Every single prosthesis we makeis unique, right?
No amputation is exactly likeanother.
So there's a lot of manualsteps involved and there's a lot
(37:37):
of customization involved inmaking a prosthesis.
But it is ripe for, I think,disruption by AI and we've got
some ideas that we're working onto implement it.
Chris Maher (37:47):
Yeah, that's super exciting.
So, Levin, everything you justshared.
First of all, it's fascinating.
I could talk to you for hoursabout hearing about how you make
these prosthetics.
It's just amazing, but itsounds like It's not cheap, and
so how does the end user pay forthis?
I mean, you're giving people aprosthetic that can be
(38:09):
transformative for their lives,but how are they paying for it?
Levin Sliker (38:13):
It's a really good question.
We have kind of three pillarsin how we conduct business right
.
So we have a mission and thenwe have these three kind of
pillars of activities that we doto accomplish that mission.
And the first is innovation.
I think we've kind of talkedsomewhat about that.
The second is education, whichwe've talked a little bit about
(38:38):
building awareness and justeducating people.
And the third is advocacy.
And so we have taken it uponourselves to advocate for this
patient population becausehistorically it's been
underserved, and part of thereason for that is there have
not been clear ways for thesedevices to get paid for.
(39:00):
The majority of cases that weget involved with are work
injuries where there's a workerscompensation company or
insurance that kicks in.
They've actually beenincredibly supportive of what
we're doing.
They understand the value andso they are willing to pay for
(39:21):
devices like these because theysee that these devices enable
people to get back to work,which is what everybody wants in
that kind of situation.
So that's really kind of themajority of cases that we deal
with, but that leaves a biggroup of people that still don't
(39:42):
have access to these devices.
So one of the things we've beenworking on very hard over the
last two years is to establishsome new billing codes.
So to do this, you have to workwith the Centers for Medicare
and Medicaid Services.
You have to apply for new codes, show up to public hearings.
It's a lot of work and there'stwo applications per year, so
(40:06):
you get two chances per year tosubmit for new codes.
So over the last two yearswe've worked very hard and we've
started to make some progress.
So this early 2025, we did getsome new codes established for
the socket level, so the socketthat I was just describing.
We got some new codesestablished for that component
(40:30):
or part of the prosthesis andthen we're working on getting
some codes established for theterminal devices or the actual
fingers themselves.
So we're really excited aboutit.
That means you know, once thathappens, it means access is is
opened for a bigger part of thepatient population.
So right now you know insurance, insurance.
(40:56):
Our goal is to have insurancecover all of these devices.
So currently mostly workers'compensation, but some private
insurance will also fund thesedevices.
But ultimately we hope to havebilling codes established with
CMS.
Chris Maher (41:14):
Yeah Well, your mission is fantastic and kudos
to you guys, and it sounds likeyou've done a really good job of
balancing the entrepreneurship,the commercialization and the
advocacy.
Kelvin and I we're going to doan episode about advocacy and
entrepreneurship because I thinkall of the, especially with the
work I'm doing right now withthe Samaritan Fund, all the
(41:37):
entrepreneurs that I talk to aretrying to balance that
entrepreneurship versus theadvocacy.
But it sounds like you guyshave done a really good job, so
congratulations and justfantastic.
I've got a couple quickquestions before we wrap things
up here.
On the funding side of things,the route you took, and I'm
making an assumption here, buttell me if I'm wrong, probably a
(41:59):
little bit slower of a processin terms of your growth and your
journey.
In hindsight, would you do itdifferently and take, say,
venture money or other privatecapital to accelerate things, or
would you do it the way you didagain?
Levin Sliker (42:18):
I think I'd do it the same way.
And a couple of reasons forthat.
I mean, the slow growth is, youknow, it's okay if you're okay
with it.
And as founders we were okaywith it.
It enabled us to kind of focuson, you know, like we sort of
(42:39):
had a little bit more time tomake some of these decisions.
Our team grew a little bitslower, so we were able to
establish the culture that wewanted within our organization.
You know, all those thingsbecome harder when you scale
quickly.
Right.
It's really hard to scale andmaintain the culture that you
(42:59):
want.
So, yeah, I think I'd do thingsthe same.
Chris Maher (43:08):
Very thoughtful process you went through and and
I admire that greatly.
The the next question is Iguess, maybe advice or tips for
entrepreneurs that maybe aren't,as I mean, you folks now have
scaled and you're in themillions of dollars of revenue
and I've been at this for comingup on the better part of a
decade.
Any words of wisdom for theentrepreneurs out there and
(43:30):
maybe specifically in kind ofthat medical device space that
are embarking on that journeyand that are at an earlier stage
, any advice or words of wisdomfor them?
Levin Sliker (43:39):
Yeah, I mean, you know, I think one of the things
that helped me is justsurrounding myself with good
people that shared the missionor shared the passion for the
mission and also hadcomplementary skill sets to my
own.
(43:59):
That really set us up forsuccess.
And you know, having kind ofcarefully picking who you, who
you work with.
So the first thing you have todo is decide, you know, are you
going to have co-founders andwho are those co-founders going
to be?
That can have a huge impact onon how successful you are.
(44:22):
The co-founder dynamics, I think, are sort of under, you know, I
think things can go reallybadly.
I think it's sort ofunderplayed sometimes how
important it is to have, youknow, good people by your side,
and I was very fortunate to haveamazing co-founders.
We all have really greatrelationships today.
(44:45):
We all still work together.
You know we're all stillinvolved.
And then and then you know, tothat point it's like who do you
hire, right?
And the next step is like whodo you hire and who do you work
(45:09):
and who do you choose to workwith?
So I think I've always felt thatwhat we have done and
accomplished wouldn't bepossible without the people.
Like I didn't do this by myself, like it was me and, you know,
three other co-founders and thena great team of people that we
assembled.
So it's it's really for me,it's like it's all about the
people that you put together,and so I think that's been the
most helpful for me.
Chris Maher (45:30):
Gotcha.
Kelvin, any final questionsbefore I ask Levin.
.
.
Kelvin Crosby (45:34):
I am just fascinated.
Chris Maher (45:37):
it really is.
Kelvin Crosby (45:38):
I'm just like this is awesome.
Chris Maher (45:41):
We're going to put in the show notes where people
can go see these products.
These prosthetics areincredible.
But, Kelvin, do you have anyfinal questions for Levin before
we let him go and we ask himhow people can connect with them
?
Kelvin Crosby (45:55):
No, how can people connect with you?
Chris Maher (45:59):
Levin, how can people connect with you?
Levin Sliker (46:02):
I mean, I'm not super active on social media,
but I'm on LinkedIn quite a bit, so find me on LinkedIn,
connect with me, shoot me amessage, tell me you heard the
podcast and that's probably thebest way to connect with me.
And come check out our website,wwwpointdesignscom, check out
what we're doing and, yeah, Iwould be happy to connect and
(46:26):
talk.
Prosthetics.
Chris Maher (46:29):
Awesome.
Well, Levin has been anabsolute pleasure, my friend,
Thank you so much and andhopefully we'll talk to you
again soon.
Levin Sliker (46:36):
Yeah, thanks, Chris and Kelvin, it's been
great.
Kelvin Crosby (46:39):
That wraps up Investing in Accessibility and
go live beyond your challengesand we'll see you in two weeks.
Thank you for listening toInvesting in Accessibility, a
Samaritan Partners podcast wherewe invest in change for
accessibility, not wait forchange.
(47:00):
If you want to follow us, youcan find us on youtube or
LinkedIn at @Samaritan Partners.
If you would like to invest inSamaritan Partners, email Chris
at chris@samaritanpartners.
com.
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com.
You can take the first step ininvesting in change by giving us
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