August 12, 2025 • 29 mins
Writer/Director Tyrrell Shaffner joins her writing partner (and It's All Write cohost) Meryl Branch-McTiernan to discuss the gulfs they crossed to bring Katie's Mom from script to screen. Spoiler, it took a cemetery full of dead characters & deleted scenes... plus a couple of exes for inspiration.
Katie's Mom stars Dina Meyer as a recent divorcee whose holiday with her adult children derails when she falls for her daughter's charming new boyfriend (Aaron Dominguez). Playgirl calls it “raunchy, MILF-y fun.” Watch the official trailer here.
If you like messy female characters, stream Katie's Mom on Tubi, Roku, and Amazon, and then rate it IMDB. Sites like IMDB skew male, giving (on average) lower ratings to movies starring women. Let's flip the script!
Also mentioned in this episode: The Sandbox Collective
--
Tyrrell Shaffner is a director and storyteller whose work threads the needle between drama, comedy, and romance—regularly spotlighting characters on the fringes, told from a distinctly female point of view.
She studied directing at USC Film School, where her comedic thesis film Different screened at over 40 festivals. She later earned her MFA in screenwriting from UCLA, where she was awarded the George Burns and Gracie Allen Fellowship in Comedy.
Tyrrell began her career as a staff director/producer for Oscar-winning producer Rob Fried’s SVOD channel Feeln (bought by Hallmark) and director Jon Chu’s Google-funded channel DS2DIO. She has since crafted hundreds of pieces of content for clients including Lionsgate, M ss ng P eces, and Crypt TV.
Her debut feature, Katie’s Mom, stars Dina Meyer and premiered at Dances With Films, where it won the Audience Award for Best Fusion Feature. The film is now available on digital and on demand.
Tyrrell is currently developing her second feature and a comedy series inspired by her real-life experience substitute teaching.
--
Follow the show on Instagram @itsallwritepod.
And, feel free to send us a note to itsallwritepod@gmail.com.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Tyrrell (00:00):
We really wanted it to be the same kind of thing and
(00:02):
we're like spiritually alignedin that way.
So like We always had each otherto lean on and root for each
other, which I think is what'sreally great about a writing
partner versus going solo.
You just have this barrier fromthe world, which is nice.
Meryl (00:22):
Hi.
I am Merril Branch Mc Tiernan.
Ariana (00:24):
And I'm Ariana McLean, and you're listening to It's All
Write,
Meryl (00:29):
A podcast about the writing life and those who live
it.
Ariana (00:33):
Many of you probably already know.
And if you don't know, youshould know that Meryl co-wrote
and co-produced Katie's mom,which is available for streaming
on Tubi and Roku right now.
And you should definitely watchit.
because we have the co-writer ofsaid movie.
About to join us in the studioelectronically from LA I'll
(00:56):
just, pass it on to Meryl tointroduce Tyrrell.
Meryl (00:59):
Tyrrell Shaffner Yes.
Her name rhymes with mine, whois a the co-parent of Katie's
mom.
a which premiered at Dances withFilms where it won the audience
award for Best fusion Future.
Tyrrell Schaffner is a directorand storyteller whose work
threads the needle betweendrama, comedy, and romance
regularly spotlightingcharacters on the fringes told
(01:22):
from a distinctly female pointof view.
So we're very excited to haveher coming in to join us from
la.
Ariana (01:28):
Yeah.
Meryl, I know this has been along process.
So when did you start writingthis film?
Meryl (01:36):
That would be the year 2015.
And when did it becomeavailable?
September of 2024.
Wow.
So it's been quite a journey.
It started with we were workingtogether at uh, company making
videos for SAT prep.
And I was writing the scripts.
(01:57):
She was directing the scripts.
And we started chatting one dayat the water cooler.
I said that I I had to go onlineso I could find a way out of my
non-monogamous relationship.
And she thought that wasamusing.
So we went to a movie together.
We went to see Train Wreck.
And in the car, on our way tothe movie, we started talking
about how we had ambitions thatwere beyond these SAT prep
(02:20):
videos.
And I mentioned that I, I had anot fully formed idea for a
feature.
And so we started meeting uptogether and decided to co-write
the script with the intentionthat she would direct/ so that
was step one.
And then a lot of other thingshappened, and here we are.
Ariana (02:40):
Yeah, because you guys.
You had to raise money.
Meryl (02:44):
that was five years in.
in, yeah.
So we had been riding togetherfor five years when we started
raising we started raising moneyafter placing in the Nicholl
Competition, which is the Oscar.
it's connected to the Oscars,it's connected to the Oscars and
Academy.
Yeah.
So we were in the top 5% twice,so we felt like, all right, this
is la creme de la creme ofscreenwriting contests.
(03:04):
So I think we have somethingworth pitching.
Ariana (03:08):
Nice.
Meryl (03:09):
So it's been Quite a journey,
Ariana (03:11):
Quite a journey, and I'm really excited to get into it.
So welcome Tyrrell.
Tyrrell (03:17):
Thanks for having me.
It's nice to see both of you.
Ariana (03:19):
Maybe do you wanna give like a little a little synopsis
Tyrrell (03:24):
Sure.
It's so funny.
Normally Meryl and I aretogether and I'm like, do you
wanna pitch it or should I,Meryl, is it okay if I pitch
Meryl (03:32):
can pitch it, you're up.
Tyrrell (03:35):
So Meryl and I co-wrote Katie's mom a feature comedy
that you can watch on Tubi orRoku or rent on Amazon right
now.
And it is about a mom who has anaffair with her daughter's
boyfriend over Christmas break.
And the jumping off point forthe film really is it's like a
modern take on The Graduate toldfrom like a Mrs.
(03:55):
Robinson like character, butit's really like an inversion of
The Graduate in a lot of ways.
New characters.
The mom is nurturing and veryloving.
She's very different than Mrs.
Robinson in the film, but itgives you an idea of the tone
that we're going for.
And yeah that's what it's about.
Ariana (04:13):
It's starring the Very hot and sexy Dina Meyers,
correct?
Tyrrell (04:18):
Yeah, Dina Meyer and Aaron Dominguez.
So they have a lot of chemistry.
There's some very sexy scenes init that I'm really proud of.
I also directed it and I think,Meryl can speak to this too, but
I think we both connected tothis story on a personal level.
'cause we've both dated dubiousmen.
And the the guy in the film, heis like a lightning rod in this
(04:40):
woman's life, but he is not agreat boyfriend, obviously to
her daughter.
He is hooking up with and hedoesn't play by the rules in a
lot of cool ways, but also insome bad ways.
So I realized while we werewriting and I think while we
were writing this particular sexscene that I think is one of the
best scenes in the film wherethey've just hooked they've like
orgasms together.
(05:02):
She's never had that happen toher before, and she feels really
connected to him.
But then she like crashesbecause the guilt of what she's
doing sets in.
And then she finds out that thisguy has been lying to her
daughter and goes into full mamabear mode while she's like naked
in bed with him.
So there's a lot going on in thestory, but while we were writing
that, I was like.
I think this really captureswhat the film is about and I can
(05:25):
relate to all these differentemotions happening at the same
time in my own relationshipswhere you're like, have this
really passionate affair, butyou have, you're dealing with
someone who's you know, not thebest guy.
Meryl (05:37):
I love when your neighbor our editor said something like,
is this about one of your exes?
And it was like not really, but
Tyrrell (05:44):
yeah.
As research, I dated a guy,during Katie's Mom field
research that was 10 yearsyounger than me and lived with
me'cause he was living in a van.
And we actually got some goodmaterial from him.
But yeah, it could be him.
And it was inspired by Merylcame up with the idea and it was
inspired by something herex-boyfriend actually did in
college.
(06:05):
So there's definitely a type ofguy out there this person is
Meryl (06:10):
the hobosexual.
Tyrrell (06:11):
The hobosexual, HOBO, hobosexual and I think there is
that type of guy out there.
He is this like charmingmarauder, and they can be like
great in their own way.
And the guy that it wasinitially inspired by was moved
to tears at the premier becauseof how well we captured him.
Ariana (06:27):
Oh wow.
Okay.
Wait, I have so many follow upquestions.
But first, so you invited themuse of the film
Meryl (06:34):
To premier?
We did.
Ariana (06:35):
How did that come about?
Meryl (06:36):
He's still, I actually haven't talked to him lately,
but he's still a friend.
And he'd read actually multipleversions of the script.
He was there for editorialadvice and yeah, he was so
excited and proud of us that itactually went through he was
someone that I dated about sixmonths after I moved to LA.
I met him and he had been anactor.
(06:59):
He'd gone to college for actingand dropped out after he got
apart in Saved by the Bell ofCollege Years,
Ariana (07:04):
Oh.
Meryl (07:05):
Oh.
And then wandered his wayaround, meeting a lot of women
and doing things.
And while he was with me, hediscovered that his true soul
was polyamorous and thatmonogamy was not gonna ever work
for him.
So I'm glad I helped him to findthat truth.
Ariana (07:23):
and in turn he helped you write a movie
Meryl (07:25):
me.
Exactly.
We helped each other.
And when I met Terl, this wasall going on, And so it was my
way of processing what was goingon and how this could possibly
be.
Okay.
Um, yeah.
Ariana (07:44):
You guys were inspired by a myriad of things.
Yeah.
But how did you guys go aboutwriting together a script?
Did you what was that process?
Yeah.
Meryl (07:54):
Yeah, we've done everything.
Ariana (07:55):
All right.
Let's give us, give me a giveour listeners a couple things
you did.
Meryl (08:00):
The first thing that we did was we would meet over rose
and Terrell's backyard and talkabout scenes that we'd want, and
then we would split off andwrite the scenes and come back
together having shared thescenes Do you wanna go into our
second way
Ariana (08:15):
of
Meryl (08:15):
this?
Tyrrell (08:16):
So then we read it out loud.
Every scene and would thenrewrite it, which Meryl hated.
And then
Meryl (08:25):
is like 12 steps in though.
Tyrrell (08:27):
that's true.
And then we got to the pointwhere we were sitting together
writing every word together.
Ariana (08:34):
Oh, wow.
Okay.
Tyrrell (08:35):
And that was really intense.
And then, there's this workshop,this directing collective I love
called The Sandbox in LosAngeles.
And it's based on iterativescene development.
So basically you'll put up ascene with actors in front of
other directors and actors andthen rehearse it three times and
break the scene and get feedbackand you watch other directors
work too.
(08:55):
So it's like really good fordirecting muscles'cause you can
go a long time without directingsomething.
And it's great for writing too,to see what's working.
So we did that for the film,over several years,
Meryl (09:06):
we'd already done five or six and I think we'd done five
or six drafts by the time westarted doing that.
Right.
Tyrrell (09:10):
Yeah.
Meryl (09:12):
What was our total, I think 18 maybe.
Tyrrell (09:15):
drafts, page one, rewrites.
Oh, I think more than it was alot.
It was a lot of rewrite.
We did everything.
We did every process and killedso many characters.
Meryl (09:28):
many, really this a whole cemetery of dead characters.
And yeah, we workshop, we haddifferent work writing workshops
that we belong to on our own.
And we'd bring the scripts tothem and yeah, there were
certain things that we'd hearand then be like, that's
ridiculous.
And then three years later we'relike, you know what?
That person was right.
We gotta kill that.
Ariana (09:48):
Okay.
So you did use.
Some of your feedback that youreceived
Meryl (09:51):
Oh, yeah.
We used a lot of feedback.
Tyrrell (09:53):
A lot of it we didn't use too.
It's some, I think some of theart is knowing what to listen to
and what not to.
But yeah, I think, it was likepatterns would emerge you know,
and it was like gathering data,and you're like, oh, okay.
Clearly this is a blind spot, orthis isn't working.
There was this beginning scenewas like polishing it turd.
And everyone hated it and thenwe did it in the sandbox the
(10:14):
scene sucks.
Get rid of this yeah, it wasreally helpful.
What's nice I think with havinga writing partner is we would
have our own discussions ordisagreements, but we both love
the film and we're shepherdingit and we had each other and we
really do love the same things.
Like we love the show girls.
We really wanted it to be thesame kind of thing and we're
(10:34):
like spiritually aligned in thatway.
So we always had each other tolean on and root for each other,
which I think is what's reallygreat about a writing partner
versus going solo.
You just have this barrier fromthe world, which is nice.
Meryl (10:49):
Yeah, I think Terrell was really helpful in helping me to
see we.
We have to solve this on ourown.
Like we can't listen like I feellike I'd be like, oh, should we
do this?
Should we do that?
Like they're saying this andshe's they're not solving
Ariana (11:03):
in the family.
Meryl (11:03):
We have to solve.
Yeah, exactly.
They can show us what's wrong,but they can't tell us how to
solve it.
Tyrrell (11:07):
Yeah, I'm a big fan of that.
I'm like, cool.
Thank you for telling me theproblem.
Do not tell me how to fix it.
Meryl (11:11):
Yeah.
Tyrrell (11:13):
You can pitch me.
You can pitch me how to fix itthough.
I just don't like it when peoplelike, it's yours.
You know what I mean?
And I try to do that when I givefeedback too, hey, I see this
issue.
I'm pitching you an idea, butobviously it's yours to come up
with the answer.
Receiving and getting feedbackis a whole art.
It's really challenging.
Ariana (11:36):
Knowing that you also directed the film and you're
also a director.
How does that play a role inyour writing?
Do you find that those two hatsyou wear, I guess we could say
inform each other at all?
Tyrrell (11:48):
This is my first time co-writing with somebody like
this, and I feel like Meryl andI had this like child,
Ariana (11:54):
Yeah.
Tyrrell (11:54):
and we're like, it's like pretty wi, and this is one
of the longest likerelationships I've ever had.
Seven years working for free onsomething, basically, and like
birthing it into the world.
So that's, and we barely kneweach started working we prior.
We had known each other at workand thought we were cool like
beyond that, didn't know well.
So that's interesting.
(12:15):
It was like a arranged marriage,
Meryl (12:17):
Or Yeah.
Or a one night stand that thatturned
Ariana (12:20):
a decade long relationship.
Meryl (12:22):
Yeah.
Tyrrell (12:24):
And, I write my own stuff that I wanna direct, and
I've developed stuff that I.
I'm directing, but haven'twritten.
So it's interesting how they'reall different, like with how it
materialized in Katie's Mom.
It's like I was really cognizantof visual moments.
'Cause Meryl's really good atcomedy and dialogue and I just
wanted to make sure that, whenyou're watching it, that there's
(12:46):
these visual pillars.
And we were also trying to, dosomething that was very
producible and then we gotcarried away, scenes and we had
to pull it back.
But it was like, how do we makesure that this is visually
interesting?
Even though the fireworks arereally this love triangle
between the mom and the daughterand the boyfriend, just, you
wanna have visual stuff goingon.
So that's something I wasthinking about from the get go
(13:08):
and that I was really glad that,that stuff was there on set
because it did feel like itfeels like a real movie.
It doesn't feel like you'restuck in a room.
Not that, it would've beenotherwise, but it was, just
thinking about that stuff fromthe get go, I think was like my
director brain more so than mywriting brain.
Ariana (13:26):
And how does, I am always curious how you work with
the visual on the page withwriting.
If you have a process for that?
Do you see things and thenyou're writing it out or one
comes before the other?
I feel like I'm a visual writer.
Like I see things before I startwriting.
But I know Meryl you'veexpressed that you don't see
that.
Meryl (13:46):
It's more, it more comes to me through the ears.
The ears.
Tyrrell (13:50):
Oh,
Meryl (13:50):
more, yeah, more dial.
I
Tyrrell (13:53):
I feel like the words being on the page is where it
starts.
And then I can get in this fuguestate where it's like really
tapping into my mind's eye or myimagination.
And I feel almost like the wordsare coming to me from some other
plane, which is, and that'salways really good that stuff is
excellent.
Lance Black, the guy who wrotelike Harvey Milk, he says he
(14:14):
literally watches the movie inhis head, and I don't do that.
I'm, I, because I think there'sa different, there's the film
you write, the film you shoot.
In the film you edit.
You have to throw out everyversion as you go.
Don't try to make it what it wasbefore.
Like you have to accept.
You know what you shot and youhave to, and make it in the edit
kind of.
So yeah, I feel like it's almostin my mind's eye, in this weird,
liminal space or something whereI see it, but I don't see it
(14:37):
rendered in like tons of detailwhere then I get on set I'm
like, has to be this way.
Which I think is good'cause Ithink it leaves you open to
what's in front of you when youget there.
Ariana (14:47):
I think that's what's really, I think amazing about
moving image film is it goesthrough, I like how you said
that there's three differentfilms because you're crossing
mediums as this thing is beingborn.
There's these differentevolutions.
Do you.
Do you recall any specificthings that got cut from each
step, like from the writing tothe filming?
(15:09):
And then from the filming to theediting were there scenes that
stand out to you or moments orcharacters that had to cut in
addition to your cemetery oflost friends?
Tyrrell (15:21):
Yeah, there's a cemetery of dead characters that
never made it.
Or an alternative universe when
Ariana (15:26):
Yeah, let's, that's nicer.
Meryl (15:27):
I, and I think that they all do inform what was there.
I feel like it, it is richerthan what because it's been
thought up.
I do feel like the, all the deadpeople infor there's a history
that's there.
Tyrrell (15:41):
Yeah.
And we definitely had to killthe babies.
What was mind blowing to me isthat our script was a hundred
and five pages max.
And the rule is a page a minute.
Final draft or whatever in thescreenplay format.
And then we also had someconsistent visual pillar moments
that weren't like overwrittenbecause the style of the script
(16:01):
was like comedy script.
And that doesn't really have alot of it's not like a drama
script where it's all these likepoetic descriptions, it just
doesn't fit.
So we had straddled a mediumthere with the visual
descriptions, but they weren'tsuper long.
But then we got into the editbay and the entire film was two
and a half hours long, two hoursand 45 minutes
Ariana (16:19):
Okay.
That's long for a comedy.
Yeah.
Tyrrell (16:22):
It's like torture for comedy
Meryl (16:24):
One hour ahead to go.
Yeah.
Tyrrell (16:27):
yeah, I think what I learned is like with the drama-
comedy, emotions take so long toprocess.
It's not like a Friend scriptwhere it's super punchy and
they're talking super fast orwhatever.
These emotions.
There's a scene where Nancy, themom and Katie's mom is going
through this car wash after thefallout and getting caught from
the affair.
(16:48):
And she has this like breakdownand I think it's two sentences
if that in the screenplay, butthen it plays for like 45
seconds in the movie.
And it's like those kinds ofthings ended up happening.
And the actors did really greatwith the dramatic moments.
And you have to let them playout.
You can't clip them.
That's it's like taking the goldout or whatever.
So we had to cut an hour.
(17:08):
We definitely had to kill a lotof babies Some of them I wasn't
too sad about, but they justdidn't work for whatever reason.
And some things didn't workbecause for instance Dina Meyer,
who plays Nancy, she's so great.
We wrote Nancy to be a littlebit of a doormat initially.
And you just, Dina's just youdon't believe that she's for one
second.
So there was like one scene at ababy shower where her friends
(17:31):
are sort of shitting on her andthey had not invited her to this
baby shower.
And she comes in and she gets upthe nerve to confront them, but
it's like Dina Meyer.
So like the scene just didn'twork because she just, we
didn't, and we didn't need it inthe end.
So stuff like that
Meryl (17:46):
Right, and that was a scene we worked so hard on and
rewrote so much, but just, yeah,the people who played those
characters, it just didn't gel.
Tyrrell (17:54):
yeah.
And that's just the film youshoot, versus the film that you
wrote.
And I'm glad that, that scenegot cut.
I, it didn't work for variousreasons, but then it, once you
started to just whittle it down,rule it down, then it got like
painful.
But yeah, drama comedy is muchlonger than a page a minute is
what I've learned.
So I'm gonna keep that in mindfor the next one.
Ariana (18:22):
What are you working on now?
Tyrrell (18:24):
Yeah, I'm excited about two projects.
I just got funding for it's aweb series pilot, but hopefully
it would be developed into afull comedy series.
It's inspired by my real lifeexperience, substitute teaching,
and it's called Subs and it'slike a mockumentary type show,
like Party Down in the world ofsubbing and really, captures the
(18:44):
least respected profession inthe world.
But also is set in LA with allthese kind of dreamers who are
trying to make it big, but alsoare just like getting shit on
daily.
It's super fun.
So we're gonna shoot that in thefall, which I'm really excited
about.
Erica Lane wrote that she's areally talented screenwriter
that I met at Sundance whenMarilyn and I were at Sundance a
(19:04):
couple years ago.
Meryl (19:06):
We were also there with Ariana a few
Ariana (19:08):
ago.
Oh yeah.
Tyrrell (19:08):
oh yeah.
Meryl (19:09):
Last year.
Yeah.
Tyrrell (19:11):
a room with Ariana.
Ariana (19:12):
Oh yeah.
That was fun.
Tyrrell (19:14):
And also I just completed my next feature
screenplay and that's called ICan't Find My Friends, and it's
about three estranged friends intheir early forties.
And their fourth friend, theywere like best friends in high
school.
Her dying wish was for them toreunite a burning man.
And so they go and bring herashes with them and then crazy
(19:37):
shit starts happening, ofcourse, but it's like a female
hangover with heart and reallyfun and also inspired by real
life experience going to BurningMan the last three years in a
row.
Hopefully I'll have some newswhen I Can't Find My Friends
soon we'll see.
Hustling.
Hustling.
Ariana (19:53):
hustling.
That is the life out here.
How do you stay motivated?
Tyrrell (19:57):
I have an insane drive.
It's a little psychotic.
Meryl's seen it.
Ariana (20:03):
Hey, own it.
You.
You got the gift.
You take it and run with it.
Tyrrell (20:08):
It can be to my own making Katie's Mom was such a
fulfilling experience.
Meryl and I wanted to dosomething.
We took this leap of faith, putso much work into it and then
did it.
So I think that was, that'sreally inspiring and motivating.
it was also really inspiring tobe in creative control while
shooting it and making it and tosee that like you have that
(20:30):
inside of you is like a reallymotivating factor.
And I think also the way peopleresponded to the film, like
women are just like gaga for themovie.
They're like, oh my God, I feelso horny afterwards.
I think it's really deliveredwhat we wanted to deliver.
And I think that's really alsoinspiring.
it's like rewarding to continueto make this type like art tells
(20:53):
women's stories, like messywomen's stories I think is still
really needed.
So I think those are somemotivating factors, that keep it
going.
I hate the blank page.
That is the worst thing for mein the world So like with, I
can't find my friends.
The hardest part was writing thefirst draft.
And what I found is I'm just,I'm in a couple different
(21:14):
writers groups through USC whereI went to undergrad or like
through the sandbox and I'll getin an accountability group.
I did one right before I went toBurning Man last year for eight
weeks, and I wrote almost thefull first draft, but I was
like, oh, I'm gonna get morestories while I'm there.
And then I finished it when Igot back.
So I break it out, break it intopieces so it becomes manageable.
Ariana (21:36):
Nice.
Yeah, Scary.
Tyrrell (21:41):
Even thinking about it
Ariana (21:43):
It's ew.
Tyrrell (21:44):
Just say what?
How do you feel about the blankpage, Meryl?
Meryl (21:50):
Weirdly, I write, I start in blank pages when I'm writing
fiction.
Like I don't open up thedocument.
I start a new document, which ismaybe weird'cause I'm like, I
don't wanna see all the rest ofit and then I paste it in at
some point to a bigger.
But I feel like I'm a little bitmore overwhelmed by a bigger
chunk.
(22:11):
Like having a bigger manuscriptis worse to me on some level
than being like, I'm juststarting on document eight of
all my unclosed things.
And
Ariana (22:22):
so you're like I know you guys are using the word
sandbox is a entity or it's a
Meryl (22:26):
but I'm, yeah, like playing in, but you're playing
in the
Ariana (22:28):
in the sandbox.
Meryl (22:29):
I think I like writing better than editing.
I'm like, oh, this is all freshand new.
Yeah.
I like the playing part.
Then
Tyrrell (22:37):
Or maybe that's the difference between more of a
director versus a writer.
Because I feel like directorsare just inherently like
kinetic, like they like to reactto things and that's a really
strong, like that's important tohave that when you're on
Ariana (22:50):
mm-hmm.
Meryl (22:50):
Right,
Tyrrell (22:51):
like you're reacting to what's in front of you versus
building whole worlds
Meryl (22:55):
Right.
Tyrrell (22:56):
Nothing.
So that might be a keydifference, just temperament or
personality.
Meryl (23:01):
Yeah.
Ariana (23:02):
So I'm bouncing quickly back to the series you're
working on and how do you findworking with other, like when
you're not writing and you haveto work with a screenwriter, how
do you handle that?
Tyrrell (23:15):
This is my first time, developing material that.
I'm not writing at all, likethat I'm having someone else
write and I'm just like talkingto them about my experience and,
coming up with the episode ideasand bits and stuff.
It's been interesting.
I feel like it's forced me to beless in the weeds, which is
good.
Not get, let's retype everysentence together.
(23:37):
Which is good in a way, I, Ihave enjoyed it so far a lot,
and I feel like it's capturedwhat I wanted to capture and
then it's nice to have somethinglike, I can't find my friends,
which is like super personal.
Have that very much be mine.
So it's, yeah I think it's niceto have them.
Those different things of waysof doing, but I like all of it,
I like also a producer, so Ithink all of it collaborating is
(24:01):
really fun.
Ariana (24:03):
Yeah, I can I can identify with that, That's why I
enjoy being a freelancer.
I wanna turn on different partsof my brain for different
projects and it also gives you achance to see other things
through a different lens or witha different light.
Like I imagine you guys haveboth spoken to what you've
learned from working on Katie'sMom and then you bring that
knowledge to your otherprojects.
(24:24):
So it all builds and I feel likesome people who only have one
specific job don't understandthat.
Like, all these things cometogether and it's, I dunno.
It is, it's fulfilling.
It's, and it's also I love achallenge and it sounds like you
do too.
I feel like.
Tyrrell (24:38):
do, I I do.
Ariana (24:44):
I know you have to head out if there's any last things
you wanna share,
Tyrrell (24:48):
Yeah, so you could watch Katie's Mom for free on
Tubi or Roku.
You can also rent it on AmazonPrime.
And we'd love for people to goand watch it and then give it a
positive rating on IMDB.
Places like IMDB are not asamenable to female focused
content as we would like like MyBest Friend's Wedding, which
(25:10):
totally influenced Katie's mom.
It's a classic, one of the bestanti romcom romcoms ever.
It has a 6.4 on IMDB, and that'sbecause IMDB skews male.
And it also features anunlikable.
She's amazing, but she's doingawful things.
Unlikable female lead.
And that's frustrating.
(25:31):
The IMDB score then feeds intoall these other platforms.
Meryl (25:35):
I was gonna say, most people don't know that you don't
think to go rate something onIMDB.
But that's what's showing up.
Tyrrell (25:41):
And then, so we have a film that's really aimed at
older getting rated in a spacethat's for younger men.
And we need really as many likepeople that love the film to
come and rate it as possible.
And, we just really, appreciatethat support.
Tell your friends about it.
Women really love this film, sowe wanna find our audience as
(26:03):
much as possible.
Ariana (26:04):
Yeah.
And we do need women in allshades of being human.
Like we're not just certainarchetypes.
There's so much more.
So that's why I really enjoyedthe film.
It was like nice to see I wouldsay a lot of the characters do
things and you're like, no,don't do that.
Or you're like, yes, do that.
And so it feels very much likeyou're seeing real people who
(26:26):
have these different facets ofspecifically I'm thinking of.
Nancy and Katie our lead femalecharacters just doing things and
having life happen, andsometimes you don't make the
best choice and that's sorelatable.
And then of course, a sexy scenewith a woman who's over 25 is,
(26:47):
we need more of that, so kudos.
Yeah.
Tyrrell (26:51):
Thank you.
Yeah.
I'm so glad you enjoyed that.
That's we're very proud of it.
Meryl (26:55):
Thank you.
Ariana (27:02):
we have a few more minutes.
So let's, catch up Meryl waslike in Mexico for a month on
sabbatical.
Meryl (27:12):
Mexico killed the right j jk.
Do we, did we have any thingsthat kept us from writing or
made us write?
Yeah.
Or Or recently.
Ariana (27:24):
I don't know.
I feel like the fun of summerkeeps me from writing.
'Cause I'm just more interestedin living life right now as
opposed to processing it.
However, I have had a few spurtsof oh my God, I gotta write this
right now.
Like yesterday.
What was I, oh, I was listeningto a podcast of
Meryl (27:45):
very
Ariana (27:46):
inspiring.
not, not our podcast.
I was listening to anotherpodcast and it inspired me to
write out my characters as ifI'm interviewing them and
hearing their stories as a wayto see where I want the story to
go.
'cause I was feeling a little Iknow what I wanna do, but I feel
like I'm not quite sure and Ithought that was.
(28:09):
Would be a fun exercise.
Meryl (28:10):
I think that is a fun
Ariana (28:12):
So like literally just first person completely in the
head of the character answeringquestions.
So I was I started doing thatand I was thinking about doing
Meryl (28:25):
So I would say it's all right to take the season off and
it's all right to fictionalpeople.
Ariana (28:31):
It's all right if the universe is your daddy.
Meryl (28:33):
Yes.
Ariana (28:36):
not
Meryl (28:36):
Not all right.
Ariana (28:37):
To support ice.
Meryl (28:38):
True
Ariana (28:39):
That We came up with a new thing called Say No to Ice
Daddies.
'cause
Meryl (28:42):
there were
Ariana (28:42):
are these, when we, I went to this pride event and
there were these they seemedlike they were undercover cops
who were trying to pass as a,you.
A gay man.
Oh really?
Wearing like a mesh shirt.
But he was like hanging out withthe cops the whole time and did
not even talk to anybody.
And we were like, that's an icedaddy.
(29:04):
And we're like, say no to icedaddies.
Meryl (29:06):
I like that.
That's great.
So
Ariana (29:07):
new slogan That's a wrap on this episode of, it's All
Write.
You can listen to other episodeson all the streaming podcasts
sites.
Share, like, rate our show,support the show as well as
(29:28):
Katie's Mom, which You canstream on Roku, Tubi and Amazon.
There will be links in the shownotes if that makes things
easier.
Until next time,
Meryl (29:39):
thanks for listening.
We really wanted it to be the same kind of thing and
(00:02):
we're like spiritually alignedin that way.
So like We always had each otherto lean on and root for each
other, which I think is what'sreally great about a writing
partner versus going solo.
You just have this barrier fromthe world, which is nice.
Meryl (00:22):
Hi.
I am Merril Branch Mc Tiernan.
Ariana (00:24):
And I'm Ariana McLean, and you're listening to It's All
Write,
Meryl (00:29):
A podcast about the writing life and those who live
it.
Ariana (00:33):
Many of you probably already know.
And if you don't know, youshould know that Meryl co-wrote
and co-produced Katie's mom,which is available for streaming
on Tubi and Roku right now.
And you should definitely watchit.
because we have the co-writer ofsaid movie.
About to join us in the studioelectronically from LA I'll
(00:56):
just, pass it on to Meryl tointroduce Tyrrell.
Meryl (00:59):
Tyrrell Shaffner Yes.
Her name rhymes with mine, whois a the co-parent of Katie's
mom.
a which premiered at Dances withFilms where it won the audience
award for Best fusion Future.
Tyrrell Schaffner is a directorand storyteller whose work
threads the needle betweendrama, comedy, and romance
regularly spotlightingcharacters on the fringes told
(01:22):
from a distinctly female pointof view.
So we're very excited to haveher coming in to join us from
la.
Ariana (01:28):
Yeah.
Meryl, I know this has been along process.
So when did you start writingthis film?
Meryl (01:36):
That would be the year 2015.
And when did it becomeavailable?
September of 2024.
Wow.
So it's been quite a journey.
It started with we were workingtogether at uh, company making
videos for SAT prep.
And I was writing the scripts.
(01:57):
She was directing the scripts.
And we started chatting one dayat the water cooler.
I said that I I had to go onlineso I could find a way out of my
non-monogamous relationship.
And she thought that wasamusing.
So we went to a movie together.
We went to see Train Wreck.
And in the car, on our way tothe movie, we started talking
about how we had ambitions thatwere beyond these SAT prep
(02:20):
videos.
And I mentioned that I, I had anot fully formed idea for a
feature.
And so we started meeting uptogether and decided to co-write
the script with the intentionthat she would direct/ so that
was step one.
And then a lot of other thingshappened, and here we are.
Ariana (02:40):
Yeah, because you guys.
You had to raise money.
Meryl (02:44):
that was five years in.
in, yeah.
So we had been riding togetherfor five years when we started
raising we started raising moneyafter placing in the Nicholl
Competition, which is the Oscar.
it's connected to the Oscars,it's connected to the Oscars and
Academy.
Yeah.
So we were in the top 5% twice,so we felt like, all right, this
is la creme de la creme ofscreenwriting contests.
(03:04):
So I think we have somethingworth pitching.
Ariana (03:08):
Nice.
Meryl (03:09):
So it's been Quite a journey,
Ariana (03:11):
Quite a journey, and I'm really excited to get into it.
So welcome Tyrrell.
Tyrrell (03:17):
Thanks for having me.
It's nice to see both of you.
Ariana (03:19):
Maybe do you wanna give like a little a little synopsis
Tyrrell (03:24):
Sure.
It's so funny.
Normally Meryl and I aretogether and I'm like, do you
wanna pitch it or should I,Meryl, is it okay if I pitch
Meryl (03:32):
can pitch it, you're up.
Tyrrell (03:35):
So Meryl and I co-wrote Katie's mom a feature comedy
that you can watch on Tubi orRoku or rent on Amazon right
now.
And it is about a mom who has anaffair with her daughter's
boyfriend over Christmas break.
And the jumping off point forthe film really is it's like a
modern take on The Graduate toldfrom like a Mrs.
(03:55):
Robinson like character, butit's really like an inversion of
The Graduate in a lot of ways.
New characters.
The mom is nurturing and veryloving.
She's very different than Mrs.
Robinson in the film, but itgives you an idea of the tone
that we're going for.
And yeah that's what it's about.
Ariana (04:13):
It's starring the Very hot and sexy Dina Meyers,
correct?
Tyrrell (04:18):
Yeah, Dina Meyer and Aaron Dominguez.
So they have a lot of chemistry.
There's some very sexy scenes init that I'm really proud of.
I also directed it and I think,Meryl can speak to this too, but
I think we both connected tothis story on a personal level.
'cause we've both dated dubiousmen.
And the the guy in the film, heis like a lightning rod in this
(04:40):
woman's life, but he is not agreat boyfriend, obviously to
her daughter.
He is hooking up with and hedoesn't play by the rules in a
lot of cool ways, but also insome bad ways.
So I realized while we werewriting and I think while we
were writing this particular sexscene that I think is one of the
best scenes in the film wherethey've just hooked they've like
orgasms together.
(05:02):
She's never had that happen toher before, and she feels really
connected to him.
But then she like crashesbecause the guilt of what she's
doing sets in.
And then she finds out that thisguy has been lying to her
daughter and goes into full mamabear mode while she's like naked
in bed with him.
So there's a lot going on in thestory, but while we were writing
that, I was like.
I think this really captureswhat the film is about and I can
(05:25):
relate to all these differentemotions happening at the same
time in my own relationshipswhere you're like, have this
really passionate affair, butyou have, you're dealing with
someone who's you know, not thebest guy.
Meryl (05:37):
I love when your neighbor our editor said something like,
is this about one of your exes?
And it was like not really, but
Tyrrell (05:44):
yeah.
As research, I dated a guy,during Katie's Mom field
research that was 10 yearsyounger than me and lived with
me'cause he was living in a van.
And we actually got some goodmaterial from him.
But yeah, it could be him.
And it was inspired by Merylcame up with the idea and it was
inspired by something herex-boyfriend actually did in
college.
(06:05):
So there's definitely a type ofguy out there this person is
Meryl (06:10):
the hobosexual.
Tyrrell (06:11):
The hobosexual, HOBO, hobosexual and I think there is
that type of guy out there.
He is this like charmingmarauder, and they can be like
great in their own way.
And the guy that it wasinitially inspired by was moved
to tears at the premier becauseof how well we captured him.
Ariana (06:27):
Oh wow.
Okay.
Wait, I have so many follow upquestions.
But first, so you invited themuse of the film
Meryl (06:34):
To premier?
We did.
Ariana (06:35):
How did that come about?
Meryl (06:36):
He's still, I actually haven't talked to him lately,
but he's still a friend.
And he'd read actually multipleversions of the script.
He was there for editorialadvice and yeah, he was so
excited and proud of us that itactually went through he was
someone that I dated about sixmonths after I moved to LA.
I met him and he had been anactor.
(06:59):
He'd gone to college for actingand dropped out after he got
apart in Saved by the Bell ofCollege Years,
Ariana (07:04):
Oh.
Meryl (07:05):
Oh.
And then wandered his wayaround, meeting a lot of women
and doing things.
And while he was with me, hediscovered that his true soul
was polyamorous and thatmonogamy was not gonna ever work
for him.
So I'm glad I helped him to findthat truth.
Ariana (07:23):
and in turn he helped you write a movie
Meryl (07:25):
me.
Exactly.
We helped each other.
And when I met Terl, this wasall going on, And so it was my
way of processing what was goingon and how this could possibly
be.
Okay.
Um, yeah.
Ariana (07:44):
You guys were inspired by a myriad of things.
Yeah.
But how did you guys go aboutwriting together a script?
Did you what was that process?
Yeah.
Meryl (07:54):
Yeah, we've done everything.
Ariana (07:55):
All right.
Let's give us, give me a giveour listeners a couple things
you did.
Meryl (08:00):
The first thing that we did was we would meet over rose
and Terrell's backyard and talkabout scenes that we'd want, and
then we would split off andwrite the scenes and come back
together having shared thescenes Do you wanna go into our
second way
Ariana (08:15):
of
Meryl (08:15):
this?
Tyrrell (08:16):
So then we read it out loud.
Every scene and would thenrewrite it, which Meryl hated.
And then
Meryl (08:25):
is like 12 steps in though.
Tyrrell (08:27):
that's true.
And then we got to the pointwhere we were sitting together
writing every word together.
Ariana (08:34):
Oh, wow.
Okay.
Tyrrell (08:35):
And that was really intense.
And then, there's this workshop,this directing collective I love
called The Sandbox in LosAngeles.
And it's based on iterativescene development.
So basically you'll put up ascene with actors in front of
other directors and actors andthen rehearse it three times and
break the scene and get feedbackand you watch other directors
work too.
(08:55):
So it's like really good fordirecting muscles'cause you can
go a long time without directingsomething.
And it's great for writing too,to see what's working.
So we did that for the film,over several years,
Meryl (09:06):
we'd already done five or six and I think we'd done five
or six drafts by the time westarted doing that.
Right.
Tyrrell (09:10):
Yeah.
Meryl (09:12):
What was our total, I think 18 maybe.
Tyrrell (09:15):
drafts, page one, rewrites.
Oh, I think more than it was alot.
It was a lot of rewrite.
We did everything.
We did every process and killedso many characters.
Meryl (09:28):
many, really this a whole cemetery of dead characters.
And yeah, we workshop, we haddifferent work writing workshops
that we belong to on our own.
And we'd bring the scripts tothem and yeah, there were
certain things that we'd hearand then be like, that's
ridiculous.
And then three years later we'relike, you know what?
That person was right.
We gotta kill that.
Ariana (09:48):
Okay.
So you did use.
Some of your feedback that youreceived
Meryl (09:51):
Oh, yeah.
We used a lot of feedback.
Tyrrell (09:53):
A lot of it we didn't use too.
It's some, I think some of theart is knowing what to listen to
and what not to.
But yeah, I think, it was likepatterns would emerge you know,
and it was like gathering data,and you're like, oh, okay.
Clearly this is a blind spot, orthis isn't working.
There was this beginning scenewas like polishing it turd.
And everyone hated it and thenwe did it in the sandbox the
(10:14):
scene sucks.
Get rid of this yeah, it wasreally helpful.
What's nice I think with havinga writing partner is we would
have our own discussions ordisagreements, but we both love
the film and we're shepherdingit and we had each other and we
really do love the same things.
Like we love the show girls.
We really wanted it to be thesame kind of thing and we're
(10:34):
like spiritually aligned in thatway.
So we always had each other tolean on and root for each other,
which I think is what's reallygreat about a writing partner
versus going solo.
You just have this barrier fromthe world, which is nice.
Meryl (10:49):
Yeah, I think Terrell was really helpful in helping me to
see we.
We have to solve this on ourown.
Like we can't listen like I feellike I'd be like, oh, should we
do this?
Should we do that?
Like they're saying this andshe's they're not solving
Ariana (11:03):
in the family.
Meryl (11:03):
We have to solve.
Yeah, exactly.
They can show us what's wrong,but they can't tell us how to
solve it.
Tyrrell (11:07):
Yeah, I'm a big fan of that.
I'm like, cool.
Thank you for telling me theproblem.
Do not tell me how to fix it.
Meryl (11:11):
Yeah.
Tyrrell (11:13):
You can pitch me.
You can pitch me how to fix itthough.
I just don't like it when peoplelike, it's yours.
You know what I mean?
And I try to do that when I givefeedback too, hey, I see this
issue.
I'm pitching you an idea, butobviously it's yours to come up
with the answer.
Receiving and getting feedbackis a whole art.
It's really challenging.
Ariana (11:36):
Knowing that you also directed the film and you're
also a director.
How does that play a role inyour writing?
Do you find that those two hatsyou wear, I guess we could say
inform each other at all?
Tyrrell (11:48):
This is my first time co-writing with somebody like
this, and I feel like Meryl andI had this like child,
Ariana (11:54):
Yeah.
Tyrrell (11:54):
and we're like, it's like pretty wi, and this is one
of the longest likerelationships I've ever had.
Seven years working for free onsomething, basically, and like
birthing it into the world.
So that's, and we barely kneweach started working we prior.
We had known each other at workand thought we were cool like
beyond that, didn't know well.
So that's interesting.
(12:15):
It was like a arranged marriage,
Meryl (12:17):
Or Yeah.
Or a one night stand that thatturned
Ariana (12:20):
a decade long relationship.
Meryl (12:22):
Yeah.
Tyrrell (12:24):
And, I write my own stuff that I wanna direct, and
I've developed stuff that I.
I'm directing, but haven'twritten.
So it's interesting how they'reall different, like with how it
materialized in Katie's Mom.
It's like I was really cognizantof visual moments.
'Cause Meryl's really good atcomedy and dialogue and I just
wanted to make sure that, whenyou're watching it, that there's
(12:46):
these visual pillars.
And we were also trying to, dosomething that was very
producible and then we gotcarried away, scenes and we had
to pull it back.
But it was like, how do we makesure that this is visually
interesting?
Even though the fireworks arereally this love triangle
between the mom and the daughterand the boyfriend, just, you
wanna have visual stuff goingon.
So that's something I wasthinking about from the get go
(13:08):
and that I was really glad that,that stuff was there on set
because it did feel like itfeels like a real movie.
It doesn't feel like you'restuck in a room.
Not that, it would've beenotherwise, but it was, just
thinking about that stuff fromthe get go, I think was like my
director brain more so than mywriting brain.
Ariana (13:26):
And how does, I am always curious how you work with
the visual on the page withwriting.
If you have a process for that?
Do you see things and thenyou're writing it out or one
comes before the other?
I feel like I'm a visual writer.
Like I see things before I startwriting.
But I know Meryl you'veexpressed that you don't see
that.
Meryl (13:46):
It's more, it more comes to me through the ears.
The ears.
Tyrrell (13:50):
Oh,
Meryl (13:50):
more, yeah, more dial.
I
Tyrrell (13:53):
I feel like the words being on the page is where it
starts.
And then I can get in this fuguestate where it's like really
tapping into my mind's eye or myimagination.
And I feel almost like the wordsare coming to me from some other
plane, which is, and that'salways really good that stuff is
excellent.
Lance Black, the guy who wrotelike Harvey Milk, he says he
(14:14):
literally watches the movie inhis head, and I don't do that.
I'm, I, because I think there'sa different, there's the film
you write, the film you shoot.
In the film you edit.
You have to throw out everyversion as you go.
Don't try to make it what it wasbefore.
Like you have to accept.
You know what you shot and youhave to, and make it in the edit
kind of.
So yeah, I feel like it's almostin my mind's eye, in this weird,
liminal space or something whereI see it, but I don't see it
(14:37):
rendered in like tons of detailwhere then I get on set I'm
like, has to be this way.
Which I think is good'cause Ithink it leaves you open to
what's in front of you when youget there.
Ariana (14:47):
I think that's what's really, I think amazing about
moving image film is it goesthrough, I like how you said
that there's three differentfilms because you're crossing
mediums as this thing is beingborn.
There's these differentevolutions.
Do you.
Do you recall any specificthings that got cut from each
step, like from the writing tothe filming?
(15:09):
And then from the filming to theediting were there scenes that
stand out to you or moments orcharacters that had to cut in
addition to your cemetery oflost friends?
Tyrrell (15:21):
Yeah, there's a cemetery of dead characters that
never made it.
Or an alternative universe when
Ariana (15:26):
Yeah, let's, that's nicer.
Meryl (15:27):
I, and I think that they all do inform what was there.
I feel like it, it is richerthan what because it's been
thought up.
I do feel like the, all the deadpeople infor there's a history
that's there.
Tyrrell (15:41):
Yeah.
And we definitely had to killthe babies.
What was mind blowing to me isthat our script was a hundred
and five pages max.
And the rule is a page a minute.
Final draft or whatever in thescreenplay format.
And then we also had someconsistent visual pillar moments
that weren't like overwrittenbecause the style of the script
(16:01):
was like comedy script.
And that doesn't really have alot of it's not like a drama
script where it's all these likepoetic descriptions, it just
doesn't fit.
So we had straddled a mediumthere with the visual
descriptions, but they weren'tsuper long.
But then we got into the editbay and the entire film was two
and a half hours long, two hoursand 45 minutes
Ariana (16:19):
Okay.
That's long for a comedy.
Yeah.
Tyrrell (16:22):
It's like torture for comedy
Meryl (16:24):
One hour ahead to go.
Yeah.
Tyrrell (16:27):
yeah, I think what I learned is like with the drama-
comedy, emotions take so long toprocess.
It's not like a Friend scriptwhere it's super punchy and
they're talking super fast orwhatever.
These emotions.
There's a scene where Nancy, themom and Katie's mom is going
through this car wash after thefallout and getting caught from
the affair.
(16:48):
And she has this like breakdownand I think it's two sentences
if that in the screenplay, butthen it plays for like 45
seconds in the movie.
And it's like those kinds ofthings ended up happening.
And the actors did really greatwith the dramatic moments.
And you have to let them playout.
You can't clip them.
That's it's like taking the goldout or whatever.
So we had to cut an hour.
(17:08):
We definitely had to kill a lotof babies Some of them I wasn't
too sad about, but they justdidn't work for whatever reason.
And some things didn't workbecause for instance Dina Meyer,
who plays Nancy, she's so great.
We wrote Nancy to be a littlebit of a doormat initially.
And you just, Dina's just youdon't believe that she's for one
second.
So there was like one scene at ababy shower where her friends
(17:31):
are sort of shitting on her andthey had not invited her to this
baby shower.
And she comes in and she gets upthe nerve to confront them, but
it's like Dina Meyer.
So like the scene just didn'twork because she just, we
didn't, and we didn't need it inthe end.
So stuff like that
Meryl (17:46):
Right, and that was a scene we worked so hard on and
rewrote so much, but just, yeah,the people who played those
characters, it just didn't gel.
Tyrrell (17:54):
yeah.
And that's just the film youshoot, versus the film that you
wrote.
And I'm glad that, that scenegot cut.
I, it didn't work for variousreasons, but then it, once you
started to just whittle it down,rule it down, then it got like
painful.
But yeah, drama comedy is muchlonger than a page a minute is
what I've learned.
So I'm gonna keep that in mindfor the next one.
Ariana (18:22):
What are you working on now?
Tyrrell (18:24):
Yeah, I'm excited about two projects.
I just got funding for it's aweb series pilot, but hopefully
it would be developed into afull comedy series.
It's inspired by my real lifeexperience, substitute teaching,
and it's called Subs and it'slike a mockumentary type show,
like Party Down in the world ofsubbing and really, captures the
(18:44):
least respected profession inthe world.
But also is set in LA with allthese kind of dreamers who are
trying to make it big, but alsoare just like getting shit on
daily.
It's super fun.
So we're gonna shoot that in thefall, which I'm really excited
about.
Erica Lane wrote that she's areally talented screenwriter
that I met at Sundance whenMarilyn and I were at Sundance a
(19:04):
couple years ago.
Meryl (19:06):
We were also there with Ariana a few
Ariana (19:08):
ago.
Oh yeah.
Tyrrell (19:08):
oh yeah.
Meryl (19:09):
Last year.
Yeah.
Tyrrell (19:11):
a room with Ariana.
Ariana (19:12):
Oh yeah.
That was fun.
Tyrrell (19:14):
And also I just completed my next feature
screenplay and that's called ICan't Find My Friends, and it's
about three estranged friends intheir early forties.
And their fourth friend, theywere like best friends in high
school.
Her dying wish was for them toreunite a burning man.
And so they go and bring herashes with them and then crazy
(19:37):
shit starts happening, ofcourse, but it's like a female
hangover with heart and reallyfun and also inspired by real
life experience going to BurningMan the last three years in a
row.
Hopefully I'll have some newswhen I Can't Find My Friends
soon we'll see.
Hustling.
Hustling.
Ariana (19:53):
hustling.
That is the life out here.
How do you stay motivated?
Tyrrell (19:57):
I have an insane drive.
It's a little psychotic.
Meryl's seen it.
Ariana (20:03):
Hey, own it.
You.
You got the gift.
You take it and run with it.
Tyrrell (20:08):
It can be to my own making Katie's Mom was such a
fulfilling experience.
Meryl and I wanted to dosomething.
We took this leap of faith, putso much work into it and then
did it.
So I think that was, that'sreally inspiring and motivating.
it was also really inspiring tobe in creative control while
shooting it and making it and tosee that like you have that
(20:30):
inside of you is like a reallymotivating factor.
And I think also the way peopleresponded to the film, like
women are just like gaga for themovie.
They're like, oh my God, I feelso horny afterwards.
I think it's really deliveredwhat we wanted to deliver.
And I think that's really alsoinspiring.
it's like rewarding to continueto make this type like art tells
(20:53):
women's stories, like messywomen's stories I think is still
really needed.
So I think those are somemotivating factors, that keep it
going.
I hate the blank page.
That is the worst thing for mein the world So like with, I
can't find my friends.
The hardest part was writing thefirst draft.
And what I found is I'm just,I'm in a couple different
(21:14):
writers groups through USC whereI went to undergrad or like
through the sandbox and I'll getin an accountability group.
I did one right before I went toBurning Man last year for eight
weeks, and I wrote almost thefull first draft, but I was
like, oh, I'm gonna get morestories while I'm there.
And then I finished it when Igot back.
So I break it out, break it intopieces so it becomes manageable.
Ariana (21:36):
Nice.
Yeah, Scary.
Tyrrell (21:41):
Even thinking about it
Ariana (21:43):
It's ew.
Tyrrell (21:44):
Just say what?
How do you feel about the blankpage, Meryl?
Meryl (21:50):
Weirdly, I write, I start in blank pages when I'm writing
fiction.
Like I don't open up thedocument.
I start a new document, which ismaybe weird'cause I'm like, I
don't wanna see all the rest ofit and then I paste it in at
some point to a bigger.
But I feel like I'm a little bitmore overwhelmed by a bigger
chunk.
(22:11):
Like having a bigger manuscriptis worse to me on some level
than being like, I'm juststarting on document eight of
all my unclosed things.
And
Ariana (22:22):
so you're like I know you guys are using the word
sandbox is a entity or it's a
Meryl (22:26):
but I'm, yeah, like playing in, but you're playing
in the
Ariana (22:28):
in the sandbox.
Meryl (22:29):
I think I like writing better than editing.
I'm like, oh, this is all freshand new.
Yeah.
I like the playing part.
Then
Tyrrell (22:37):
Or maybe that's the difference between more of a
director versus a writer.
Because I feel like directorsare just inherently like
kinetic, like they like to reactto things and that's a really
strong, like that's important tohave that when you're on
Ariana (22:50):
mm-hmm.
Meryl (22:50):
Right,
Tyrrell (22:51):
like you're reacting to what's in front of you versus
building whole worlds
Meryl (22:55):
Right.
Tyrrell (22:56):
Nothing.
So that might be a keydifference, just temperament or
personality.
Meryl (23:01):
Yeah.
Ariana (23:02):
So I'm bouncing quickly back to the series you're
working on and how do you findworking with other, like when
you're not writing and you haveto work with a screenwriter, how
do you handle that?
Tyrrell (23:15):
This is my first time, developing material that.
I'm not writing at all, likethat I'm having someone else
write and I'm just like talkingto them about my experience and,
coming up with the episode ideasand bits and stuff.
It's been interesting.
I feel like it's forced me to beless in the weeds, which is
good.
Not get, let's retype everysentence together.
(23:37):
Which is good in a way, I, Ihave enjoyed it so far a lot,
and I feel like it's capturedwhat I wanted to capture and
then it's nice to have somethinglike, I can't find my friends,
which is like super personal.
Have that very much be mine.
So it's, yeah I think it's niceto have them.
Those different things of waysof doing, but I like all of it,
I like also a producer, so Ithink all of it collaborating is
(24:01):
really fun.
Ariana (24:03):
Yeah, I can I can identify with that, That's why I
enjoy being a freelancer.
I wanna turn on different partsof my brain for different
projects and it also gives you achance to see other things
through a different lens or witha different light.
Like I imagine you guys haveboth spoken to what you've
learned from working on Katie'sMom and then you bring that
knowledge to your otherprojects.
(24:24):
So it all builds and I feel likesome people who only have one
specific job don't understandthat.
Like, all these things cometogether and it's, I dunno.
It is, it's fulfilling.
It's, and it's also I love achallenge and it sounds like you
do too.
I feel like.
Tyrrell (24:38):
do, I I do.
Ariana (24:44):
I know you have to head out if there's any last things
you wanna share,
Tyrrell (24:48):
Yeah, so you could watch Katie's Mom for free on
Tubi or Roku.
You can also rent it on AmazonPrime.
And we'd love for people to goand watch it and then give it a
positive rating on IMDB.
Places like IMDB are not asamenable to female focused
content as we would like like MyBest Friend's Wedding, which
(25:10):
totally influenced Katie's mom.
It's a classic, one of the bestanti romcom romcoms ever.
It has a 6.4 on IMDB, and that'sbecause IMDB skews male.
And it also features anunlikable.
She's amazing, but she's doingawful things.
Unlikable female lead.
And that's frustrating.
(25:31):
The IMDB score then feeds intoall these other platforms.
Meryl (25:35):
I was gonna say, most people don't know that you don't
think to go rate something onIMDB.
But that's what's showing up.
Tyrrell (25:41):
And then, so we have a film that's really aimed at
older getting rated in a spacethat's for younger men.
And we need really as many likepeople that love the film to
come and rate it as possible.
And, we just really, appreciatethat support.
Tell your friends about it.
Women really love this film, sowe wanna find our audience as
(26:03):
much as possible.
Ariana (26:04):
Yeah.
And we do need women in allshades of being human.
Like we're not just certainarchetypes.
There's so much more.
So that's why I really enjoyedthe film.
It was like nice to see I wouldsay a lot of the characters do
things and you're like, no,don't do that.
Or you're like, yes, do that.
And so it feels very much likeyou're seeing real people who
(26:26):
have these different facets ofspecifically I'm thinking of.
Nancy and Katie our lead femalecharacters just doing things and
having life happen, andsometimes you don't make the
best choice and that's sorelatable.
And then of course, a sexy scenewith a woman who's over 25 is,
(26:47):
we need more of that, so kudos.
Yeah.
Tyrrell (26:51):
Thank you.
Yeah.
I'm so glad you enjoyed that.
That's we're very proud of it.
Meryl (26:55):
Thank you.
Ariana (27:02):
we have a few more minutes.
So let's, catch up Meryl waslike in Mexico for a month on
sabbatical.
Meryl (27:12):
Mexico killed the right j jk.
Do we, did we have any thingsthat kept us from writing or
made us write?
Yeah.
Or Or recently.
Ariana (27:24):
I don't know.
I feel like the fun of summerkeeps me from writing.
'Cause I'm just more interestedin living life right now as
opposed to processing it.
However, I have had a few spurtsof oh my God, I gotta write this
right now.
Like yesterday.
What was I, oh, I was listeningto a podcast of
Meryl (27:45):
very
Ariana (27:46):
inspiring.
not, not our podcast.
I was listening to anotherpodcast and it inspired me to
write out my characters as ifI'm interviewing them and
hearing their stories as a wayto see where I want the story to
go.
'cause I was feeling a little Iknow what I wanna do, but I feel
like I'm not quite sure and Ithought that was.
(28:09):
Would be a fun exercise.
Meryl (28:10):
I think that is a fun
Ariana (28:12):
So like literally just first person completely in the
head of the character answeringquestions.
So I was I started doing thatand I was thinking about doing
Meryl (28:25):
So I would say it's all right to take the season off and
it's all right to fictionalpeople.
Ariana (28:31):
It's all right if the universe is your daddy.
Meryl (28:33):
Yes.
Ariana (28:36):
not
Meryl (28:36):
Not all right.
Ariana (28:37):
To support ice.
Meryl (28:38):
True
Ariana (28:39):
That We came up with a new thing called Say No to Ice
Daddies.
'cause
Meryl (28:42):
there were
Ariana (28:42):
are these, when we, I went to this pride event and
there were these they seemedlike they were undercover cops
who were trying to pass as a,you.
A gay man.
Oh really?
Wearing like a mesh shirt.
But he was like hanging out withthe cops the whole time and did
not even talk to anybody.
And we were like, that's an icedaddy.
(29:04):
And we're like, say no to icedaddies.
Meryl (29:06):
I like that.
That's great.
So
Ariana (29:07):
new slogan That's a wrap on this episode of, it's All
Write.
You can listen to other episodeson all the streaming podcasts
sites.
Share, like, rate our show,support the show as well as
(29:28):
Katie's Mom, which You canstream on Roku, Tubi and Amazon.
There will be links in the shownotes if that makes things
easier.
Until next time,
Meryl (29:39):
thanks for listening.
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