June 10, 2025 • 27 mins
WGA writer Riham El-Ounsi discusses hierarchies in TV writer’s rooms, an indie film about the porn industry in the 70s, and the distraction fighting powers of a Freewrite Typewriter. Warning: there will be some nostalgia & singing at the end of this episode.
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Riham El-Ounsi is a WGA-nominated writer and producer, primarily working in the world of game and competition series. She has produced and written for shows on networks such as ABC, NBC, and FOX. She also works heavily in unscripted development, creating and fleshing out game, travel, and lifestyle series. Riham has collaborated with companies like SMAC Entertainment, TurnerMedia, and Sony, to bring ideas from pitch to stage, like "Snoop Dogg: Presents the Joker's Wild."
In addition, Riham has also worked on the development of live events, working alongside Disney talent to bring interactive dance parties to LiveNation venues. So far, she and her team have produced over 30 live performances across the US.
Riham is currently working on her memoir, but most importantly, on herself.
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Follow us on Instagram @itasllwritepod.
Email us at itsallwritepod@gmail.com.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Riham (00:00):
as people who work in TV specifically, we're always in
(00:02):
the fiction.
Even if it's unscripted, it'sstill not real.
So we're always fabricating andproducing
Meryl (00:16):
hello and welcome to the It's All Right podcast.
I'm Meryl Branch McTiernan.
Ariana (00:22):
And I'm Ariana McLean.
Meryl (00:24):
This is a podcast about the writing life and those who
live it.
I'm also here to tell you, It'sall right if the only writing
you did was writing the Q 55 toQueens today, or if you're
inspired by taking a gummy at anopen mic at the coffee shop, or
if you don't write duringMercury in retrograde and now
(00:45):
you know you're back to thepage.
It's all right.
And today we have a veryexciting guest.
Ariana (00:51):
Yeah.
We have Riham El-Ounsi who is afriend of mine, And she is
joining us from Los Angeles.
Riham El-Ounsi is a WGAnominated writer and producer
who's worked on and developedgame shows lifestyle series and
more.
Her shows have aired on all thebig networks, including ABC,
(01:11):
NBC, and Fox.
And in her own words, Riham iscurrently working on her memoir,
but most importantly on herself.
Aren't we all?
Welcome, Riham.
Riham (01:21):
Thank you.
Thank you.
Ariana (01:23):
So I thought maybe we would start just how we know
each other.
Do you want to tell a little bitabout how we've met
Riham (01:30):
Set the setting.
It's December, 2013.
We're working on thisindependent feature film
independently.
We didn't know each other at thetime.
I think we were at a warehousein Brooklyn and you were working
at the art department at thattime.
And I was transporting opentanks of gasoline uncomfortably.
(01:51):
And then I think I just see thisblur of human.
Run past me.
I think you were runningsomething to like the art
director.
It was like one of those pornmagazine covers I think
Meryl (02:04):
oh, I love, what was this movie?
Ariana (02:06):
A little side note or a footnote is the independent film
we were working on was based ona true story of a man in the
seventies who porn was illegaland he started selling it to
make money for his family.
So he had a two part life wherehe had the, the quintessential
(02:27):
suburban family, wife and kid,but then in New York City he was
selling pornography and then hestarted doing heroin and got
into all that.
It was a weird film.
It was a weird project to workon.
Riham (02:43):
it was, but since that day we became really close
friends.
We bonded at the wrap partyactually.
And then I believe from thatyear on, we worked together on
more projects than we didn'twork together I say and then we
built this like littleproduction family
Ariana (03:03):
So let's fast forward You joining the WGA would you
like to share how got into thewriting of television
Riham (03:12):
I'd started off I'd started off working on the
producorial side mainly in gameshows.
And it wasn't until I got on thea hundred thousand dollars
pyramid and met David who wasalso the head writer at the
time, and I believe still mightbe.
We had maintained a pretty goodrelationship and he knew that I
(03:33):
had wishes and dreams ofbecoming a writer, but I just
didn't know how to start really.
I'm, as you can tell, I'm notreally great with my words.
I have to like stop and likethink about it.
So it's easier for me to writethings down.
It's a little bit more conciseto get my thoughts streamlined
Ariana (03:52):
I am the same
Meryl (03:54):
Yeah, same here.
Riham (03:55):
Hashtag neuro spicy.
People always forget autism is acommunication disorder.
So a lot of the times that I'mtrying to convey what I'm
thinking up here, it doesn'tnecessarily come out exactly as
I wanted it, but when I havetime to sit and write, I have
time to stop and think aboutexactly what I wanna say in a
(04:18):
very specific way so that it'snot misconstrued.
But regardless of all that,David knew that it was something
that I was passionate about.
I'm a voracious reader.
I love books.
And he knew that he was about tobe staffing for Cash Cab.
And this was in 2019?
Yes, 2019.
So before the pandemic.
(04:40):
And at the time, Cash Cab wasnot a guild.
Not a guild show.
It was like guild adjacent.
So even though you can have yourinsurance through the WGA by
working on Cash Cab, they didn'tgive you like the residuals or
(05:01):
any of the other things expectfrom a guild show.
It was really lucky because alot of people work to get their
WGA card for so many yearswithout any luck, and mine was
the right place, right time Ithought it was a joke at first
when I received the invitationto apply.
To become a Guild member.
I was like, this is impossible.
(05:21):
This is my first show, like myfirst show as a writer this must
be spam.
And I asked David and he said,no, this is legitimate.
And then I come to find out thatthere's strength in numbers.
So the more guild writers youhave on your team, the bigger
the fight.
And
Meryl (05:37):
I am wondering have you seen many benefits besides the
health insurance for being amember and have there been any
like negatives from being amember?
Riham (05:45):
So it's hard to say You Bet Your Life with Jay Leno was
a guild show and College Bowlwas also a guild show.
And those are the only two thatI saw any residuals from, which
that's like the biggest benefitfor me would residuals.
However, there have beeninstances where on one of the
(06:08):
shows that I was working on,they were not paying the writers
adequately because there's twodifferent lines for payment.
So if you're like an audienceparticipation quiz writer,
that's a different minimumversus a comedy writer on the
same show, it's a completelydifferent minimum.
So we ended up actually going tocourt.
(06:30):
So that's the benefit of theGuild.
We had lawyers on our side andthis was maybe three years after
we wrapped.
And nobody had seen anyresiduals.
They actually knocked us out ofour health insurance because we
didn't qualify for because ofthe lack of residuals.
And so the lawyers got involved,we ended up winning the court
(06:51):
case and all of the writers gotlike back pay of what they
should have been paid.
So that was a benefit of it.
However, it also, I feel like itburned bridges, even though it
wasn't us doing any of that,that they changed the whole
writing team the next seasonthat came about.
And it just goes to show likeyou can put your heart and soul
(07:13):
into something and really workhard, and at the end of the day,
doesn't matter because they'lljust replace you next year.
Meryl (07:21):
Beautiful.
I love America.
Riham (07:23):
she laughed uncomfortably
Ariana (07:25):
/And just some context could you explain a little bit
what it's like being a writerfor a game show
Riham (07:30):
Yeah.
So it depends case by case onwhat the show is.
So primarily for me, I've becomelike a trivia writer which is
great because I have a degree inhistory, so I'm really used to
doing research.
I was gonna be a lawyer, youguys I'm really happy.
do that.
Meryl (07:47):
Yeah.
Riham (07:48):
But my research background has helped getting my
questions pinned as they callit, because you have to have it
so that it's not an open-endedanswer.
You have to phrase yourquestions in a very specific way
so that nobody says actuallythat answer could have been.
so for, let's say for the show,You Bet Your Life that one we
(08:11):
shot 180 episodes.
And it's supposed to be fun,right?
Nobody wants to watch reallyboring, bland game shows,
they're fun.
So sometimes you mix comedy inwith them.
Specifically, like for Jay Leno,all of our fourth answer had to
be like a throwaway.
I remember one of my, one of myfavorite throwaway answers, we
(08:35):
were talking about Danny Trejoand what movie was he in?
And the movie was Machete.
But all of the questions had todo with all of the answer
choices, sorry, had to do withlike different sharp objects.
So one of them was saw, theother one was Machete, and then
the last one was Leave It toCleaver, which I just made that
(08:57):
up.
And I remember feeling so proudof myself because it was the
first time that the head writerwas like, I really like this one
Ariana (09:03):
I'm imagining you as like marvelous Mrs.
Maisel cause she she gets to bea writer on a show and and the
sexism is amplified'cause it'sthe sixties, but, all that shit
still exists.
So it's all these guys and justher and no one's taking
anything.
She says and then there's likethat one that she gets.
Riham (09:23):
That's exactly how I felt.
And it, that has not changed bythe way, that whole thing of not
being heard or listened to.
I can't begin to tell you howmany times I've made a
suggestion and it's completelyignored.
And then a male counterpart willmake the exact same suggestion,
(09:43):
if not verbatim.
And they're like, what a frickingreat, sorry.
What a great idea.
And I'm like, I said that if notseven seconds ago and you guys
completely ignored it.
So is it'cause I don't have apen.
I don't know.
it is
Meryl (09:58):
it is.
Riham (09:59):
They also treat you like an assistant.
Meryl (10:02):
And so were you a staff writer?
Riham (10:04):
Yeah.
Staff writer
Meryl (10:05):
i've heard that there's some hierarchical, like you're
not allowed to, or you're notencouraged to speak that often
depending on where you fall inthe hierarchy.
Did you find that?
Riham (10:16):
I was told to stay in my lane once by one of the head
writers.
And then basically was notallowed on set for the next
three days,
Meryl (10:27):
you were grounded.
You were in detention,
Riham (10:29):
Yeah, I remember, I still remember it.
It was Wednesday, August 18th,and I remember thinking to
myself, what is this punishment?
I, all I did was make a goodsuggestion, but here's the
thing.
At the end of the week, theywere like, can you come back to
set?
We really need you.
And I was like, yeah.
I don't make suggestions just tomake suggestions like they're
(10:49):
coming with purpose,
Ariana (10:51):
and it's your job.
You're doing your job
Riham (10:55):
Yeah.
Suffice it to stay.
I never worked with that personever again.
Ariana (10:59):
Good.
Good..
I know you do other writing, notjust game show writing you tell
us a little bit about the othermaybe styles or formats that you
write in?
What gives you, what brings youjoy right now?
Riham (11:15):
Right now I just free write my partner got me this, I
don't know if you've heard ofthe free write typewriter.
It connects to the internet.
Specifically just to send yourwork to your email.
You can't browse the internetthere.
You can't see anything.
But it's really cool'cause itlooks like a typewriter.
So it's perfect for somebody whogets distracted really easily.
(11:37):
In addition to I, so I'm Audi,DHD, autism and A dHD mixed
Together.
they're polar opposites.
Yet so many people struggle withlife because of both of them.
Meryl (11:47):
Cool.
So then, you've been writingyour thoughts.
Would you call this poems ormemoir
Riham (11:53):
it's a little bit of both.
So I started my memoir and Istarted it just as a way
cathartically release what'sbeen in my heart and soul for,
the last 30 plus years.
And I've been reading a lot morepoetry as well, so that's helped
(12:15):
rethink how I want to write.
The Prophet is a book by KahlilGibran I started reading that
and it's so beautifully worded,and now it makes so much sense
why my father writes the waythat he writes, because my
father is also a writer.
He's a translator, but he isreally a writer.
(12:36):
He gave it to me 20 years ago.
It was in 2005 and I just now
Meryl (12:40):
That's totally happened to me before as well.
It's like the right time.
You're just like, oh, now I'mgonna look at this.
And then you can't put it down.
Riham (12:47):
Yeah.
So yeah, I've been more into thepoetry recently.
I, I would love to add comedysomehow.
It's just sometimes it's so hardto get yourself motivated,
especially when it seems likeeverything is going against you
(13:08):
wanna curl up and do
Ariana (13:11):
nothing Yeah.
We were me and Meryl always talkabout trying to maintain a
practice and'cause it's once youget into the, I don't wanna
write, I don't feel likewriting, but actually if I wrote
I would feel better.
And then there's that cycle andthen I feel guilty that I didn't
write, and then it's Ugh, Ididn't write, so I might as well
not write.
And it just becomes like asnowball and it's if I, if you
just sit down and do it, thenyou'll be
Meryl (13:33):
better.
You can move on with your lifeand have a day and enjoy your
life,
Riham (13:36):
Yeah.
You know what I'm gonna promiseyou, Meryl and you, Ariana, I'm
gonna do this starting tomorrow,I promise, As soon as I get up,
I think the first thing I'mgonna do is I'm gonna sit down
and I'm not gonna even use mylaptop.
I'm gonna use my free write.
And may I suggest doing thesame, but maybe just on a piece
of paper instead or a typewriterif you have one as well.
(13:57):
I think there's strength innumbers, so if we can help
motivate each other,
Ariana (14:02):
Just like the accountability.
Just having, knowing otherpeople are showing up to the
page.
And I think that we spoke aboutthis in the initiation episode
about how.
Me showing up to the page bymyself, this is what Meryl said.
I'm trying to quote you thatyou're, showing up to the page
every day.
Who cares?
(14:22):
But at least if you're saying itout loud, if you have a friend
who knows you're doing it, likeit makes it have a little bit
more meaning.
Even though, we all have value,inherently our stories have
value inherently, and I believethat.
But obviously it's easier saidthan done to believe that for
yourself.
Riham (14:39):
I love that.
Showing up to the page Do youguys find that it's easier for
you to write for someone else towrite for yourself?
Okay, cool.
I'm not the only one.
Ariana (14:49):
I think'cause it's, there's no attachment to it the
way when you are writing yourown story I've thought about it
actually.
Like we were me and Merylearlier I guess it was in the
fall of 2024, we were developinga TV show and we just sat at a
bar and outlined the entireseries or the season one season.
(15:12):
And I was like, meanwhile I'mlike still trying to get to page
two of my own story.
Right, right.
Meryl (15:19):
But money's a thing,
Ariana (15:20):
a motivator.
Riham (15:21):
Yeah.
Unfortunately.
Ariana (15:22):
yeah.
Deadlines are motivators.
Money is a motivator.
And I think when it's not yourown work, I don't feel like it
needs to the there's less of anattachment to it.
So I don't feel like things haveto be as perfect in a way.
Meryl (15:36):
Right.
Ariana (15:37):
And I'm looking at it more as a product than like an
art
Riham (15:41):
Yeah.
Ariana (15:42):
We are recording from a a community podcast studio
that's part of a bookstore thatis having an event.
So just saying that becausewe're here in New York and
things are happening and it'snot fully soundproof.
Riham (15:56):
Hey, all good man.
We're,
Meryl (15:59):
all good.
It's all right.
Ariana (16:05):
I'll tell a little story.
One of the reasons why I or Ithink this heavily contributed
to why I applied for an MFAprogram, which is where I met
Meryl in the first place, wasdoing improv with Riham.
And I think it was just showingup and being vulnerable and
being in a space with otherpeople who were being vulnerable
(16:26):
and just having to think on yourfeet and be creative.
It opened my mind to otherpossibilities and I was like,
oh, I've always liked writing.
I guess I'll apply for an MFAprogram.
And everyone in our group atthis we were at the pit.
everyone had like a major lifechange by the end.
Someone went back for their GED,somebody got a divorce somebody
(16:50):
quit their Terrible job.
And everyone just like it.
It gave you permission.
Not that it gave you permission.
I think doing something scarylike improv made you realize you
can do other scary things orthings that you were for some
reason holding yourself backfrom.
Riham (17:08):
I think that's a really good observation
Ariana (17:10):
Will you tell them the funny story of our terrible
scene work?
There was one specific scenethat we'll never forget.
Riham (17:19):
oh my God.
Ariana (17:20):
I think the suggestion was like Viking
Riham (17:23):
Yeah.
It It was Viking.
And what are Vikings?
They rape and pillage.
We know this.
Ariana (17:27):
yeah.
And it me and Riham who are likethe only two women of color and
we just keep talking about ohyeah.
Oh my God.
We were a female viking groupand we were like raping and
pillaging men.
That's what what we were doingin our skit.
Riham (17:42):
I was like, we were taking back the power.
Okay.
We were the Amazonian Vikings.
But she stopped us so quicklythat I think because of that, I
had a really hard time in levelthree
Meryl (17:55):
cause you've
Ariana (17:56):
been
Meryl (17:56):
killed, like your creativity has been like
Ariana (17:59):
Granted, it was getting uncomfortable.
Riham (18:01):
It's like escalation of like really uncomfortable
material.
Meryl (18:06):
that what's funny?
that's what I would wanna see.
Riham (18:10):
And who knows?
It could have been really greathad she not put a stop to it
full circle.
We could have closed it with areally good ending, but we'll
never know.
Thanks, teach.
This is more of an angryobservation than a story as
currently we are in politicalunrest around, not just here,
(18:32):
but around the world.
And there was a genocide thatwas happening and has been
happening for decades.
Most recently, there's been alight shed on it, and because of
social media, we're getting moreinformation at a quicker pace.
There was a CAA agent who waspretty high ranking.
I believe she worked with.
A-listers like Natalie Portmanamong, Tom Cruise was one of
(18:54):
them, I think.
And she is of Arab descent.
And she posted something insolidarity with the people who
were dying on a daily basis andsaying stop death stop killing
man.
Okay.
She was asked to take that downand was forced to resign from
(19:18):
the agency.
Cut to a year and a half later.
This person that Ariana and Ihave worked with in the past he
is an executive producer for abunch of shows that are on air
right now.
Well known, and he wasreprimanded.
For saying something veryoffensive to PAs of color.
(19:44):
And to him, he was joking, andthe people around him were like,
that's not a joke.
That's really offensive.
Ariana (19:50):
And he had a history of I think racist and sexist and
prejudice things that he saidand done on set.
Like nothing was necessarilyreported, but it had been talked
about, like people talked aboutit openly Well, you remember
when we had a staff meeting, soon, on this particular show.
I actually was working in thewriter's room Riham was a
(20:11):
producer, and so the writers andproducers always got together to
go over material and whatnot.
So we were having this meetingand he just walks over and puts
his hands into my hair.
I just froze.
'cause also you're in a group ofyour coworkers and it's very
uncomfortable and everyone issilent and staring and no one
knows what to do.
(20:31):
And it was very awkward.
Many people did come up to meafterwards and was like, that
wasn't right.
But in the moment No one saidanything.
Riham (20:40):
Did he ever apologize?
Ariana (20:42):
I don't think so.
Riham (20:42):
Okay, yeah.
This is the same person.
Here's the kicker.
So that woman who was standingup for human rights no longer
had a job.
This person who made a group ofpeople, including Ariana, feel
uncomfortable was basically justgiven like a, oh, no, don't do
that.
And now is still, he's stillproducing a show right now.
Meryl (21:12):
Is there anything you're reading or watching right now
that you wanna tell the audienceabout that's inspiring you?
Riham (21:19):
Yeah.
I was, I'm really into adultanimation and I recently
finished this show called CommonSide Effects.
It's on Apple and it's it's acommentary on the pharmaceutical
industry, and it's done in sucha way that it makes you God, I
don't wanna talk about beingangry again.
Ariana (21:40):
You know what?
Anger is not a bad thinginherently.
It gets things done And so let'sbe angry.
It's the year of an angry woman.
Riham (21:49):
That show is about how the government is trying to
silence this one scientist And Ifeel like that is very much how
we're living right now.
So it's art imitating life andlife imitating art in a weird
way.
I want to make shows andtelevision that change the way
people think about things thatwe've been so okay with just
(22:10):
sweeping under the rug and justmoving forward.
Ariana (22:12):
And I think actually in a lot of ways our podcast is
very political.
'cause we we're talking towriters about writing and
writing right now is beingattacked.
Truth is being attacked, art'sbeing attacked, We are speaking
out and I think that shows thepower of story in all its forms.
And that's why, for me, it'simportant.
Riham (22:31):
They often say the pen is mightier than the sword, right?
Meryl (22:36):
So we'll show up to the page with our swords and keep
Ariana (22:40):
up to the page with our swords.
And I am, I'm actually, I'vegotten really into tarot card
reading in the last few yearsand what brought me to tarot is
actually the storytelling aspectof it.
I find really fascinating boththe histories of it throughout,
'cause there's card divinationin almost every culture and the
stories, the images the symbols.
(23:01):
And then you create storiesthrough the symbols and images
that you see.
So there's like a lot of crosspollination of storytelling,
which I enjoy.
But the sword is the sword isone of the suits and that often
is related to one, it's relatedto the element of air, which is
related truth telling.
(23:22):
'cause truth telling can, it canbe very powerful like the wind,
like the sword.
It can be sharp.
It can hurt and it can alsoprotect, right?
So it has all those elements,like literally a double-edged
sword.
And often when it comes up inreadings, it can speak to
writing as well, especially theace of swords.
'cause it's that one sword beingheld up with a hand and it looks
(23:44):
so reminiscent of a pen,
Riham (23:47):
oh, wow.
I didn't know that.
Ariana (23:54):
we have a studio guest today.
Meryl (23:56):
Angela's here do you want to say hello Yeah, come hello.
hello
Ariana (23:59):
Angela, do you have any questions?
Angela (24:00):
I feel like you guys answered a lot or you answered a
lot.
Did you always, as a child, havethese dreams of writing or did
it come later in life?
Riham (24:09):
I guess it did start off as a kid.
I.
Oh yes, it did.
I wrote this story I wrote,which was supposed to be a one
page story, and my teacher said,because I wasn't listening, she
deducted points
Meryl (24:22):
Oh my God.
Riham (24:22):
she was like you, the assignment is to write one, one
page about anything you wantregarding mythical, like
creatures or beasts or somethingfantastic, and so I had this
obsession growing up with thelochness monster and I still
have an obsession with it alittle bit.
I don't talk about it often.
'cause when you say it out loud,it sounds a little bit nuts.
(24:44):
'Cause it doesn't exist.
Ariana (24:46):
Or does it,
Meryl (24:47):
We don't know.
Riham (24:48):
I so badly want it to, and
Ariana (24:50):
I think we have to live in a world where it can be a
possibility for us to
Riham (24:54):
But I wrote six pages of it front and back, so 12 pages
as a sixth grader but because ofthat time, I realized I do like
to write and read about thesethings that are not in
existence.
Right?
You're building your world.
And I think as people who workin TV specifically, we're always
in the fiction.
Even if it's unscripted, it'sstill not real.
(25:17):
Uh, so we're always fabricatingand producing these, these
things in life.
And now it's just putting pen topaper to get to where you
actually wanna be, which ishopefully a scripted writer's
room for me.
Am done writing for unscripted
Ariana (25:35):
time for transition.
Um,
Riham (25:38):
Who knows?
Maybe that's the next step.
If I had parting words for thisjust right to change the world.
Meryl (25:46):
Thank you so much for being here.
RIham.
Ariana (25:48):
Thank you.
Meryl (25:53):
Thanks for listening to, it's all right.
We'll be dropping new episodesevery other Tuesday.
You can find us on Instagram atIt's All Write pod and you can
drop us a line at,isallwritepod@gmail.com.
Write, spelled W-R-I-T-E.
Ariana (26:09):
make sure to, subscribe, like those things.
Wherever you get your podcasts,tune in next time.
Riham (26:22):
Honestly, since I saw the title, all I've had was the
Saved by the Bell theme songStuck in my head
Meryl (26:30):
cause doesn't he say it's all right cause I'm save by the
Bell oh, maybe we could dosomething with that.
It's saved by the, it is.
All right.
Riham (26:38):
because I'm saved by the, and it's the person who you're
interviewing.
Meryl (26:43):
I like this.
This is good.
It's all right'cause I'm savedby the pen.
Ooh,
Riham (26:49):
Ooh that's really good.
10 points for Gryffindor
as people who work in TV specifically, we're always in
(00:02):
the fiction.
Even if it's unscripted, it'sstill not real.
So we're always fabricating andproducing
Meryl (00:16):
hello and welcome to the It's All Right podcast.
I'm Meryl Branch McTiernan.
Ariana (00:22):
And I'm Ariana McLean.
Meryl (00:24):
This is a podcast about the writing life and those who
live it.
I'm also here to tell you, It'sall right if the only writing
you did was writing the Q 55 toQueens today, or if you're
inspired by taking a gummy at anopen mic at the coffee shop, or
if you don't write duringMercury in retrograde and now
(00:45):
you know you're back to thepage.
It's all right.
And today we have a veryexciting guest.
Ariana (00:51):
Yeah.
We have Riham El-Ounsi who is afriend of mine, And she is
joining us from Los Angeles.
Riham El-Ounsi is a WGAnominated writer and producer
who's worked on and developedgame shows lifestyle series and
more.
Her shows have aired on all thebig networks, including ABC,
(01:11):
NBC, and Fox.
And in her own words, Riham iscurrently working on her memoir,
but most importantly on herself.
Aren't we all?
Welcome, Riham.
Riham (01:21):
Thank you.
Thank you.
Ariana (01:23):
So I thought maybe we would start just how we know
each other.
Do you want to tell a little bitabout how we've met
Riham (01:30):
Set the setting.
It's December, 2013.
We're working on thisindependent feature film
independently.
We didn't know each other at thetime.
I think we were at a warehousein Brooklyn and you were working
at the art department at thattime.
And I was transporting opentanks of gasoline uncomfortably.
(01:51):
And then I think I just see thisblur of human.
Run past me.
I think you were runningsomething to like the art
director.
It was like one of those pornmagazine covers I think
Meryl (02:04):
oh, I love, what was this movie?
Ariana (02:06):
A little side note or a footnote is the independent film
we were working on was based ona true story of a man in the
seventies who porn was illegaland he started selling it to
make money for his family.
So he had a two part life wherehe had the, the quintessential
(02:27):
suburban family, wife and kid,but then in New York City he was
selling pornography and then hestarted doing heroin and got
into all that.
It was a weird film.
It was a weird project to workon.
Riham (02:43):
it was, but since that day we became really close
friends.
We bonded at the wrap partyactually.
And then I believe from thatyear on, we worked together on
more projects than we didn'twork together I say and then we
built this like littleproduction family
Ariana (03:03):
So let's fast forward You joining the WGA would you
like to share how got into thewriting of television
Riham (03:12):
I'd started off I'd started off working on the
producorial side mainly in gameshows.
And it wasn't until I got on thea hundred thousand dollars
pyramid and met David who wasalso the head writer at the
time, and I believe still mightbe.
We had maintained a pretty goodrelationship and he knew that I
(03:33):
had wishes and dreams ofbecoming a writer, but I just
didn't know how to start really.
I'm, as you can tell, I'm notreally great with my words.
I have to like stop and likethink about it.
So it's easier for me to writethings down.
It's a little bit more conciseto get my thoughts streamlined
Ariana (03:52):
I am the same
Meryl (03:54):
Yeah, same here.
Riham (03:55):
Hashtag neuro spicy.
People always forget autism is acommunication disorder.
So a lot of the times that I'mtrying to convey what I'm
thinking up here, it doesn'tnecessarily come out exactly as
I wanted it, but when I havetime to sit and write, I have
time to stop and think aboutexactly what I wanna say in a
(04:18):
very specific way so that it'snot misconstrued.
But regardless of all that,David knew that it was something
that I was passionate about.
I'm a voracious reader.
I love books.
And he knew that he was about tobe staffing for Cash Cab.
And this was in 2019?
Yes, 2019.
So before the pandemic.
(04:40):
And at the time, Cash Cab wasnot a guild.
Not a guild show.
It was like guild adjacent.
So even though you can have yourinsurance through the WGA by
working on Cash Cab, they didn'tgive you like the residuals or
(05:01):
any of the other things expectfrom a guild show.
It was really lucky because alot of people work to get their
WGA card for so many yearswithout any luck, and mine was
the right place, right time Ithought it was a joke at first
when I received the invitationto apply.
To become a Guild member.
I was like, this is impossible.
(05:21):
This is my first show, like myfirst show as a writer this must
be spam.
And I asked David and he said,no, this is legitimate.
And then I come to find out thatthere's strength in numbers.
So the more guild writers youhave on your team, the bigger
the fight.
And
Meryl (05:37):
I am wondering have you seen many benefits besides the
health insurance for being amember and have there been any
like negatives from being amember?
Riham (05:45):
So it's hard to say You Bet Your Life with Jay Leno was
a guild show and College Bowlwas also a guild show.
And those are the only two thatI saw any residuals from, which
that's like the biggest benefitfor me would residuals.
However, there have beeninstances where on one of the
(06:08):
shows that I was working on,they were not paying the writers
adequately because there's twodifferent lines for payment.
So if you're like an audienceparticipation quiz writer,
that's a different minimumversus a comedy writer on the
same show, it's a completelydifferent minimum.
So we ended up actually going tocourt.
(06:30):
So that's the benefit of theGuild.
We had lawyers on our side andthis was maybe three years after
we wrapped.
And nobody had seen anyresiduals.
They actually knocked us out ofour health insurance because we
didn't qualify for because ofthe lack of residuals.
And so the lawyers got involved,we ended up winning the court
(06:51):
case and all of the writers gotlike back pay of what they
should have been paid.
So that was a benefit of it.
However, it also, I feel like itburned bridges, even though it
wasn't us doing any of that,that they changed the whole
writing team the next seasonthat came about.
And it just goes to show likeyou can put your heart and soul
(07:13):
into something and really workhard, and at the end of the day,
doesn't matter because they'lljust replace you next year.
Meryl (07:21):
Beautiful.
I love America.
Riham (07:23):
she laughed uncomfortably
Ariana (07:25):
/And just some context could you explain a little bit
what it's like being a writerfor a game show
Riham (07:30):
Yeah.
So it depends case by case onwhat the show is.
So primarily for me, I've becomelike a trivia writer which is
great because I have a degree inhistory, so I'm really used to
doing research.
I was gonna be a lawyer, youguys I'm really happy.
do that.
Meryl (07:47):
Yeah.
Riham (07:48):
But my research background has helped getting my
questions pinned as they callit, because you have to have it
so that it's not an open-endedanswer.
You have to phrase yourquestions in a very specific way
so that nobody says actuallythat answer could have been.
so for, let's say for the show,You Bet Your Life that one we
(08:11):
shot 180 episodes.
And it's supposed to be fun,right?
Nobody wants to watch reallyboring, bland game shows,
they're fun.
So sometimes you mix comedy inwith them.
Specifically, like for Jay Leno,all of our fourth answer had to
be like a throwaway.
I remember one of my, one of myfavorite throwaway answers, we
(08:35):
were talking about Danny Trejoand what movie was he in?
And the movie was Machete.
But all of the questions had todo with all of the answer
choices, sorry, had to do withlike different sharp objects.
So one of them was saw, theother one was Machete, and then
the last one was Leave It toCleaver, which I just made that
(08:57):
up.
And I remember feeling so proudof myself because it was the
first time that the head writerwas like, I really like this one
Ariana (09:03):
I'm imagining you as like marvelous Mrs.
Maisel cause she she gets to bea writer on a show and and the
sexism is amplified'cause it'sthe sixties, but, all that shit
still exists.
So it's all these guys and justher and no one's taking
anything.
She says and then there's likethat one that she gets.
Riham (09:23):
That's exactly how I felt.
And it, that has not changed bythe way, that whole thing of not
being heard or listened to.
I can't begin to tell you howmany times I've made a
suggestion and it's completelyignored.
And then a male counterpart willmake the exact same suggestion,
(09:43):
if not verbatim.
And they're like, what a frickingreat, sorry.
What a great idea.
And I'm like, I said that if notseven seconds ago and you guys
completely ignored it.
So is it'cause I don't have apen.
I don't know.
it is
Meryl (09:58):
it is.
Riham (09:59):
They also treat you like an assistant.
Meryl (10:02):
And so were you a staff writer?
Riham (10:04):
Yeah.
Staff writer
Meryl (10:05):
i've heard that there's some hierarchical, like you're
not allowed to, or you're notencouraged to speak that often
depending on where you fall inthe hierarchy.
Did you find that?
Riham (10:16):
I was told to stay in my lane once by one of the head
writers.
And then basically was notallowed on set for the next
three days,
Meryl (10:27):
you were grounded.
You were in detention,
Riham (10:29):
Yeah, I remember, I still remember it.
It was Wednesday, August 18th,and I remember thinking to
myself, what is this punishment?
I, all I did was make a goodsuggestion, but here's the
thing.
At the end of the week, theywere like, can you come back to
set?
We really need you.
And I was like, yeah.
I don't make suggestions just tomake suggestions like they're
(10:49):
coming with purpose,
Ariana (10:51):
and it's your job.
You're doing your job
Riham (10:55):
Yeah.
Suffice it to stay.
I never worked with that personever again.
Ariana (10:59):
Good.
Good..
I know you do other writing, notjust game show writing you tell
us a little bit about the othermaybe styles or formats that you
write in?
What gives you, what brings youjoy right now?
Riham (11:15):
Right now I just free write my partner got me this, I
don't know if you've heard ofthe free write typewriter.
It connects to the internet.
Specifically just to send yourwork to your email.
You can't browse the internetthere.
You can't see anything.
But it's really cool'cause itlooks like a typewriter.
So it's perfect for somebody whogets distracted really easily.
(11:37):
In addition to I, so I'm Audi,DHD, autism and A dHD mixed
Together.
they're polar opposites.
Yet so many people struggle withlife because of both of them.
Meryl (11:47):
Cool.
So then, you've been writingyour thoughts.
Would you call this poems ormemoir
Riham (11:53):
it's a little bit of both.
So I started my memoir and Istarted it just as a way
cathartically release what'sbeen in my heart and soul for,
the last 30 plus years.
And I've been reading a lot morepoetry as well, so that's helped
(12:15):
rethink how I want to write.
The Prophet is a book by KahlilGibran I started reading that
and it's so beautifully worded,and now it makes so much sense
why my father writes the waythat he writes, because my
father is also a writer.
He's a translator, but he isreally a writer.
(12:36):
He gave it to me 20 years ago.
It was in 2005 and I just now
Meryl (12:40):
That's totally happened to me before as well.
It's like the right time.
You're just like, oh, now I'mgonna look at this.
And then you can't put it down.
Riham (12:47):
Yeah.
So yeah, I've been more into thepoetry recently.
I, I would love to add comedysomehow.
It's just sometimes it's so hardto get yourself motivated,
especially when it seems likeeverything is going against you
(13:08):
wanna curl up and do
Ariana (13:11):
nothing Yeah.
We were me and Meryl always talkabout trying to maintain a
practice and'cause it's once youget into the, I don't wanna
write, I don't feel likewriting, but actually if I wrote
I would feel better.
And then there's that cycle andthen I feel guilty that I didn't
write, and then it's Ugh, Ididn't write, so I might as well
not write.
And it just becomes like asnowball and it's if I, if you
just sit down and do it, thenyou'll be
Meryl (13:33):
better.
You can move on with your lifeand have a day and enjoy your
life,
Riham (13:36):
Yeah.
You know what I'm gonna promiseyou, Meryl and you, Ariana, I'm
gonna do this starting tomorrow,I promise, As soon as I get up,
I think the first thing I'mgonna do is I'm gonna sit down
and I'm not gonna even use mylaptop.
I'm gonna use my free write.
And may I suggest doing thesame, but maybe just on a piece
of paper instead or a typewriterif you have one as well.
(13:57):
I think there's strength innumbers, so if we can help
motivate each other,
Ariana (14:02):
Just like the accountability.
Just having, knowing otherpeople are showing up to the
page.
And I think that we spoke aboutthis in the initiation episode
about how.
Me showing up to the page bymyself, this is what Meryl said.
I'm trying to quote you thatyou're, showing up to the page
every day.
Who cares?
(14:22):
But at least if you're saying itout loud, if you have a friend
who knows you're doing it, likeit makes it have a little bit
more meaning.
Even though, we all have value,inherently our stories have
value inherently, and I believethat.
But obviously it's easier saidthan done to believe that for
yourself.
Riham (14:39):
I love that.
Showing up to the page Do youguys find that it's easier for
you to write for someone else towrite for yourself?
Okay, cool.
I'm not the only one.
Ariana (14:49):
I think'cause it's, there's no attachment to it the
way when you are writing yourown story I've thought about it
actually.
Like we were me and Merylearlier I guess it was in the
fall of 2024, we were developinga TV show and we just sat at a
bar and outlined the entireseries or the season one season.
(15:12):
And I was like, meanwhile I'mlike still trying to get to page
two of my own story.
Right, right.
Meryl (15:19):
But money's a thing,
Ariana (15:20):
a motivator.
Riham (15:21):
Yeah.
Unfortunately.
Ariana (15:22):
yeah.
Deadlines are motivators.
Money is a motivator.
And I think when it's not yourown work, I don't feel like it
needs to the there's less of anattachment to it.
So I don't feel like things haveto be as perfect in a way.
Meryl (15:36):
Right.
Ariana (15:37):
And I'm looking at it more as a product than like an
art
Riham (15:41):
Yeah.
Ariana (15:42):
We are recording from a a community podcast studio
that's part of a bookstore thatis having an event.
So just saying that becausewe're here in New York and
things are happening and it'snot fully soundproof.
Riham (15:56):
Hey, all good man.
We're,
Meryl (15:59):
all good.
It's all right.
Ariana (16:05):
I'll tell a little story.
One of the reasons why I or Ithink this heavily contributed
to why I applied for an MFAprogram, which is where I met
Meryl in the first place, wasdoing improv with Riham.
And I think it was just showingup and being vulnerable and
being in a space with otherpeople who were being vulnerable
(16:26):
and just having to think on yourfeet and be creative.
It opened my mind to otherpossibilities and I was like,
oh, I've always liked writing.
I guess I'll apply for an MFAprogram.
And everyone in our group atthis we were at the pit.
everyone had like a major lifechange by the end.
Someone went back for their GED,somebody got a divorce somebody
(16:50):
quit their Terrible job.
And everyone just like it.
It gave you permission.
Not that it gave you permission.
I think doing something scarylike improv made you realize you
can do other scary things orthings that you were for some
reason holding yourself backfrom.
Riham (17:08):
I think that's a really good observation
Ariana (17:10):
Will you tell them the funny story of our terrible
scene work?
There was one specific scenethat we'll never forget.
Riham (17:19):
oh my God.
Ariana (17:20):
I think the suggestion was like Viking
Riham (17:23):
Yeah.
It It was Viking.
And what are Vikings?
They rape and pillage.
We know this.
Ariana (17:27):
yeah.
And it me and Riham who are likethe only two women of color and
we just keep talking about ohyeah.
Oh my God.
We were a female viking groupand we were like raping and
pillaging men.
That's what what we were doingin our skit.
Riham (17:42):
I was like, we were taking back the power.
Okay.
We were the Amazonian Vikings.
But she stopped us so quicklythat I think because of that, I
had a really hard time in levelthree
Meryl (17:55):
cause you've
Ariana (17:56):
been
Meryl (17:56):
killed, like your creativity has been like
Ariana (17:59):
Granted, it was getting uncomfortable.
Riham (18:01):
It's like escalation of like really uncomfortable
material.
Meryl (18:06):
that what's funny?
that's what I would wanna see.
Riham (18:10):
And who knows?
It could have been really greathad she not put a stop to it
full circle.
We could have closed it with areally good ending, but we'll
never know.
Thanks, teach.
This is more of an angryobservation than a story as
currently we are in politicalunrest around, not just here,
(18:32):
but around the world.
And there was a genocide thatwas happening and has been
happening for decades.
Most recently, there's been alight shed on it, and because of
social media, we're getting moreinformation at a quicker pace.
There was a CAA agent who waspretty high ranking.
I believe she worked with.
A-listers like Natalie Portmanamong, Tom Cruise was one of
(18:54):
them, I think.
And she is of Arab descent.
And she posted something insolidarity with the people who
were dying on a daily basis andsaying stop death stop killing
man.
Okay.
She was asked to take that downand was forced to resign from
(19:18):
the agency.
Cut to a year and a half later.
This person that Ariana and Ihave worked with in the past he
is an executive producer for abunch of shows that are on air
right now.
Well known, and he wasreprimanded.
For saying something veryoffensive to PAs of color.
(19:44):
And to him, he was joking, andthe people around him were like,
that's not a joke.
That's really offensive.
Ariana (19:50):
And he had a history of I think racist and sexist and
prejudice things that he saidand done on set.
Like nothing was necessarilyreported, but it had been talked
about, like people talked aboutit openly Well, you remember
when we had a staff meeting, soon, on this particular show.
I actually was working in thewriter's room Riham was a
(20:11):
producer, and so the writers andproducers always got together to
go over material and whatnot.
So we were having this meetingand he just walks over and puts
his hands into my hair.
I just froze.
'cause also you're in a group ofyour coworkers and it's very
uncomfortable and everyone issilent and staring and no one
knows what to do.
(20:31):
And it was very awkward.
Many people did come up to meafterwards and was like, that
wasn't right.
But in the moment No one saidanything.
Riham (20:40):
Did he ever apologize?
Ariana (20:42):
I don't think so.
Riham (20:42):
Okay, yeah.
This is the same person.
Here's the kicker.
So that woman who was standingup for human rights no longer
had a job.
This person who made a group ofpeople, including Ariana, feel
uncomfortable was basically justgiven like a, oh, no, don't do
that.
And now is still, he's stillproducing a show right now.
Meryl (21:12):
Is there anything you're reading or watching right now
that you wanna tell the audienceabout that's inspiring you?
Riham (21:19):
Yeah.
I was, I'm really into adultanimation and I recently
finished this show called CommonSide Effects.
It's on Apple and it's it's acommentary on the pharmaceutical
industry, and it's done in sucha way that it makes you God, I
don't wanna talk about beingangry again.
Ariana (21:40):
You know what?
Anger is not a bad thinginherently.
It gets things done And so let'sbe angry.
It's the year of an angry woman.
Riham (21:49):
That show is about how the government is trying to
silence this one scientist And Ifeel like that is very much how
we're living right now.
So it's art imitating life andlife imitating art in a weird
way.
I want to make shows andtelevision that change the way
people think about things thatwe've been so okay with just
(22:10):
sweeping under the rug and justmoving forward.
Ariana (22:12):
And I think actually in a lot of ways our podcast is
very political.
'cause we we're talking towriters about writing and
writing right now is beingattacked.
Truth is being attacked, art'sbeing attacked, We are speaking
out and I think that shows thepower of story in all its forms.
And that's why, for me, it'simportant.
Riham (22:31):
They often say the pen is mightier than the sword, right?
Meryl (22:36):
So we'll show up to the page with our swords and keep
Ariana (22:40):
up to the page with our swords.
And I am, I'm actually, I'vegotten really into tarot card
reading in the last few yearsand what brought me to tarot is
actually the storytelling aspectof it.
I find really fascinating boththe histories of it throughout,
'cause there's card divinationin almost every culture and the
stories, the images the symbols.
(23:01):
And then you create storiesthrough the symbols and images
that you see.
So there's like a lot of crosspollination of storytelling,
which I enjoy.
But the sword is the sword isone of the suits and that often
is related to one, it's relatedto the element of air, which is
related truth telling.
(23:22):
'cause truth telling can, it canbe very powerful like the wind,
like the sword.
It can be sharp.
It can hurt and it can alsoprotect, right?
So it has all those elements,like literally a double-edged
sword.
And often when it comes up inreadings, it can speak to
writing as well, especially theace of swords.
'cause it's that one sword beingheld up with a hand and it looks
(23:44):
so reminiscent of a pen,
Riham (23:47):
oh, wow.
I didn't know that.
Ariana (23:54):
we have a studio guest today.
Meryl (23:56):
Angela's here do you want to say hello Yeah, come hello.
hello
Ariana (23:59):
Angela, do you have any questions?
Angela (24:00):
I feel like you guys answered a lot or you answered a
lot.
Did you always, as a child, havethese dreams of writing or did
it come later in life?
Riham (24:09):
I guess it did start off as a kid.
I.
Oh yes, it did.
I wrote this story I wrote,which was supposed to be a one
page story, and my teacher said,because I wasn't listening, she
deducted points
Meryl (24:22):
Oh my God.
Riham (24:22):
she was like you, the assignment is to write one, one
page about anything you wantregarding mythical, like
creatures or beasts or somethingfantastic, and so I had this
obsession growing up with thelochness monster and I still
have an obsession with it alittle bit.
I don't talk about it often.
'cause when you say it out loud,it sounds a little bit nuts.
(24:44):
'Cause it doesn't exist.
Ariana (24:46):
Or does it,
Meryl (24:47):
We don't know.
Riham (24:48):
I so badly want it to, and
Ariana (24:50):
I think we have to live in a world where it can be a
possibility for us to
Riham (24:54):
But I wrote six pages of it front and back, so 12 pages
as a sixth grader but because ofthat time, I realized I do like
to write and read about thesethings that are not in
existence.
Right?
You're building your world.
And I think as people who workin TV specifically, we're always
in the fiction.
Even if it's unscripted, it'sstill not real.
(25:17):
Uh, so we're always fabricatingand producing these, these
things in life.
And now it's just putting pen topaper to get to where you
actually wanna be, which ishopefully a scripted writer's
room for me.
Am done writing for unscripted
Ariana (25:35):
time for transition.
Um,
Riham (25:38):
Who knows?
Maybe that's the next step.
If I had parting words for thisjust right to change the world.
Meryl (25:46):
Thank you so much for being here.
RIham.
Ariana (25:48):
Thank you.
Meryl (25:53):
Thanks for listening to, it's all right.
We'll be dropping new episodesevery other Tuesday.
You can find us on Instagram atIt's All Write pod and you can
drop us a line at,isallwritepod@gmail.com.
Write, spelled W-R-I-T-E.
Ariana (26:09):
make sure to, subscribe, like those things.
Wherever you get your podcasts,tune in next time.
Riham (26:22):
Honestly, since I saw the title, all I've had was the
Saved by the Bell theme songStuck in my head
Meryl (26:30):
cause doesn't he say it's all right cause I'm save by the
Bell oh, maybe we could dosomething with that.
It's saved by the, it is.
All right.
Riham (26:38):
because I'm saved by the, and it's the person who you're
interviewing.
Meryl (26:43):
I like this.
This is good.
It's all right'cause I'm savedby the pen.
Ooh,
Riham (26:49):
Ooh that's really good.
10 points for Gryffindor
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