E03 Origins & Overthinking

A 12-year rewind to the moment we met — the awkward start of a beautiful mess. Then we dive into anxiety and how we each deal when it hits. From trauma bonding to butterfly taps, we cover a whole different kind of chaos.

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
Hey guys, I'm Kimberly. That's Tori.
This is it's nothing. It's everything.
This podcast started because we are expert amateurs and
everything. That's so.
And we think that the thoughts that we have and the words that
we say at each other sometimes are sometimes valuable,

(00:21):
sometimes entertaining, and sometimes, you know,
contributing to who knows what. Maybe society.
Maybe society. If nothing else, you're day.
You're day listener, come on. So because of that, now we have
a podcast. Cut, print, Send it.

(00:41):
I thought that was excellent. It was very us.
You're the brains. I'm comedy.
Here we are. Yeah, I thought it was really
good. Is there anything else you think
we should include do? Should we talk about how we met,
How we meet? How did we meet?
I mean, here's here's the thing.I don't.

(01:02):
I know how we met, but I don't remember what year.
But I don't know how we met Matt.
I know we bonded in Cabaret. Yes.
But is that when we met? Yeah.
That's the first time we ever. Met first time you were actually
I don't know if I've ever told you this.
I was like new to Seattle. I had just lived in Lai, got

(01:26):
hired at Village Theater for a crazy show called where I dance
with a potato on on stage Blessings.
And then I did, oh, I did SpringAwakening at Balagon and that's
where I met Beau Mellinger. And Beau Mellinger said, hey,

(01:47):
they're doing cabaret at second story.
Never heard of it. And second time I had not heard
of it. And he said, my friend is
directing and my other friend isSally Bowles.
And I was like, so I can't be Sally Bowles.
Screw this. And then I was like, oh wait,
I'm still going to audition. I got laryngitis.
Wait, I wasn't precast though? No, Robbie was.

(02:11):
Robbie was precast. Oh, maybe it was.
Robbie was the only one precast.But so I went and I auditioned.
I had laryngitis, and that is where I drank an entire mug of
what's it called, Apple cider vinegar, warm apple cider
vinegar and throat coat. Anytime I smell it, I want to
yak in my mouth and I squeaked out in front of this person I

(02:37):
never knew, which is Troy. I've never met him in my entire
life. This is my first time.
And he was like, if that's what that sounds like, I can't wait
to hear you really sing. And which I was like, thank you.
And then I was Helga the baby. Also what a compliment you are
Helga as a baby. Helga as a baby.
Yeah, that's what you want to hear in the room.
But I was like, could go the other way too, you know, because

(02:57):
I squeaked out. I mean, it was very sad to
listen to. And he said not.
He did not say, OK, thanks so much.
He didn't say that. Next.
Backwards hat and I didn't get cast for Sally Bowles, but you
had been and I was like. Who is this bitch?
Honestly, but I was like, of course I wasn't going to get.

(03:20):
I mean, I knew I wasn't going toget Sally, but I was like, who
is she? She going to live up to it?
You did that. Was a good show.
Visually stunning. Yeah.
Such a crazy time. Like, think of us in the 20s, in
our 20s. What?
Yeah, no, Yeah, we were in our. 20s we were in our mid late 20s.

(03:43):
I was, I was 28, seven. Wait, how old do you know?
39 I'm about to turn 40. Excuse me, children.
Children, you're 39. Yeah, I'm 38.
I'm turning 40 in April. Oh my God, what are we going to
do? I.
Still don't know. I keep being like I'm going to

(04:03):
do nothing and then I'm like, nobitch, it's your 40th.
It's. 40th it's everybody has a thought of who cares?
But then you think about the endof your life.
Yeah. And what did you do for your
40th? Nothing.
That's the story you want to tell.
No Boo. How about Tijuana?
I really just wanted. To make you.
I took a left hand turn. I didn't.
I did not see Tijuana coming down the pipeline.

(04:27):
Sure, I'll. Sure.
I'll go to Tijuana. Let's go.
It's just a casual weekend. Get some cheap lighters and ride
a donkey. Get those cigs eaten street
meat. No, I don't think we.
Should find some homemade tequila from a from a street

(04:48):
vendor and hope that it's not. Yeah, probably the one with the
rattlesnake. In it, that means it's
authentic. Yeah.
It's probably offensive in some way.
So that's how we met, and then Imet you during rehearsals.
Yeah. And then we were, I remember, we

(05:08):
were fast friends. I remember.
It's because of our gaggle of gays.
It's because of our gaggle of gays and also because cabaret is
a great way to trauma bond with people with.
There were some people in that show that we did not trauma bond
with, but. That's that's normal.
Yeah, but I feel like we trauma bonded and then you got engaged

(05:29):
shortly after that. When did you get engaged?
Winter Wonderettes. Yeah, yeah, because.
That show of all time. Patty asked me to come to the
engagement, and I was like, I just remember being so excited
that, like, he felt like I was important enough to be there.
Yeah. And then I watched your now
husband propose to you in front of what felt like a million
people. It did feel like a million

(05:50):
people I there had to be at least 50.
There were so many people there,but it was also.
A very small space. Yeah.
We. Were all just like crowding.
I mean, man, I, I remember walking in and up the stairs and
there's Pat standing there with like this random pedestal with
flowers on top of it. And I was like, that's weird.
And then I go. From dinner.

(06:12):
Right. We just come from the Space
Needle. We had Space Needle dinner,
which like why I worked there. Yeah.
I really. Hey babe, I really want to take
you to your work. For dinner, I think.
I don't know why why that's whatthat was.
And we were going to a restaurant.
So like, I don't know. But I mean, it was lovely.
I think it's because it was cheap and you know.
And also romance. Also romance, but we went by

(06:32):
ourselves. We were with another couple.
That's right. And so sure, that restaurant
doesn't exist anymore, and neither does the Space Needle.
No, now it's restaurant, now it's.
Like I've never been. There's like a bar.
There's a bar. But it's only open until 5 or
something, or 9 maybe. Maybe it's only.
Open half 5:00 tonight. I don't know.
I haven't been since I worked there because Pat's also afraid

(06:56):
of heights and so he doesn't want to go up.
But also this the floor, this either of the.
He's really not here for that. I don't like it.
No Makes my tummy feel funny. Did you have you ever been to
the the in New York Twin Towers where they were Freedom Tower?
Yeah, yeah. Have you ever done the Freedom
Tower? No whole.
My goodness. Yeah.

(07:17):
One they've made it into like a ride.
Like you go into this. It felt like Disneyland, like
you go in, it's very cool. But I was unprepared.
I was like, not I was. I was.
And then you can feel how high you are.
Yeah. And I didn't know I had a
problem with tights until I was about halfway up.

(07:37):
And then I thought they were just going to open up into just
nothingness. And so Pat, I literally was
like, Oh my God, Pat, I'm going to.
And he was, I could feel him andhe was like holding, like he
grabbed my hand and we were justholding hands.
And I was like, I'm really having a hard time.
I'm like having heart palpitations.
I'm like starting to sweat. Oh my God, are we going to die
or they're just going to throw us off the What are we doing?

(07:58):
They just open the doors and there's nothing there and
they're just like, be free. Well, and because you see this
like they do like cool video on the way up and they're showing
everything be built in New York being built while you're going
up. Oh, that's cool, very cool.
But yet again, halfway up, you can start to feel the the
elevator kind of sway and. Like.

(08:19):
Don't panic. We're Uchayi breathing.
I was like, don't panic. But then you go out and there's
it's another dart. It's like a dark room that has
another video that you have to watch.
It's a very cool experience. But yeah, you're I was just like
panicky. And so I that does not want to
go to the Space Needle, which islike not even quarter of that

(08:42):
building. Yeah, but he's like, no, I if I
can see you through the floor, I'm going to hate that.
Which me too probably. I'd be like that feels.
Yeah, I don't like. Staring at my death.
My stomach tries to crawl out mythroat when I was.
Going to say out my butt, you know, my throat probably better.
Yeah, so you had dinner at the Space Needle.

(09:02):
We all, everyone met at. I don't know.
It's no longer exists. It was the loft.
I remember it was just upstairs.And there was a wall of people
and I remember. And we were all supposed to be
hiding. That's what to be so funny is it
was like, they're going to be OK.
They're going to be. And everyone's like, oh, OK.
Patty just texted her. They're about to walk in and
everyone's like smash it like smashing each other into.

(09:23):
The corner, just turn around together.
It's a loft. It's like an open air, open
space loft, like there's no and everyone was just like nuzzled
into each other and I heard and I'm like, hey, people I've never
met before. Beau was literally the only
person that I knew there. Oh, and, and Eric, Fred, Eric,
Fred, Eric, and then a bunch of people I'd never met.
And I was like, I guess we're all friends now.

(09:44):
Yeah, because I remember walkingin and like, looking and being
like those faces feel are all from it, Like I if I look at the
detail, but it was a wall of human beings.
Yeah. And in my head it is like you're
stacked like in like, like, all I see is just head, head, head,
head, like all the way up to theceiling.
Like those cartoons where it's like 3 kids stacked with a

(10:05):
trench coat to make him. Yeah.
That is what I saw and and I wasjust like, huh, In my head I was
like, not my birthday. It's not Pat's birthday.
Whose birthday is it? Whose?
Birthday is it Why am I here? I.
Was just like. What's happening and why is this
weird pedestal with a bunch of roses on it?

(10:26):
He said a bunch of things on hisknee.
Couldn't tell you what he said because it was also so loud.
Yeah, it was so dark, but I'm sure it was lovely and something
about, you know, me being his person, love and stuff.
And then. Yeah.
And then flash, flash, flash, flash, flash.

(10:47):
When he asked me and I was. But.
Yeah. And then going around the room,
half the people were just hammered.
Yeah. Somebody was handing out, I
believe is a sister-in-law of mine, gummy bears that she
homemade. I don't.
In the before times, that was before it was legal.
Yeah, these gummy bears that were just tip to toe vodka.

(11:10):
Oh. Oh, they were.
And so I alcohol gummies. Oh yes, they were alcohol, not
weed, but gummies. This is yeah, this is alcohol
gummies. And my God, I tried 1 and I was
like, it's so bad. And so people were just like
schmammered. I was like, thanks for being
here everybody. People were schmammered.
I remember also. We got there some amount of time

(11:32):
early, you know, to be early because who wants to be the
asshole that spoils the surprise, right?
And and drinking. But I feel like when we got
there, there were already peoplethat had been there for a while
drinking and it was like it was like a whole, it was like a
rager before you got there. It was like a full on.
So you knew the actual wedding was going to be a gas?

(11:53):
And boy was. It.
And boy, was it we said that there was going to be a bar cap,
my dad being I'm the only girl. So like he was going to go for
it, but he had put a cap there like, hey, Mr. Sparrow, like
we're going to let you know whenyou've hit this amount, he's
like, great, great. We hit that mount in probably 20
minutes. And my dad's like full scent.

(12:15):
I don't care. And because it was full, I mean,
they could all have top shelf. Do you know who did not drink
me? That's because you couldn't
breathe. That was horrible, but it was
magical. But you looked amazing.
But I looked amazing. I did not feel amazing.
You're wearing 2 corsets. I was wearing 2 corsets which I
also did not know, and I didn't know that if you put like 15 lbs

(12:36):
of material on your body after probably 3 hours you're gonna be
tired and not feel good. And then like, no function, no
actual function of your diaphragm.
No, and put yourself in seven inch heels.
Yeah, those are some tall shoes.Still gone.
They're beautiful, they're beautiful, but.
So you had to stand up to a verytall man.
I know we, I mean, could you imagine my wedding photos?

(12:57):
If you. Didn't have the mutt and Jeff
like we would look so dumb. We'd look like that.
The rooster with the little chicken.
You know, like, how would you take wedding photos together?
You'd be like at his belly button like.
I mean literally even in my tallest heels I could find I
still am like she looks dwarfed.You're like, just hold me.
Just pick me up and hold me for all of her wedding photos but

(13:18):
make it look natural. And then our wedding photos
blow. They're the worst.
I regret. I regret two things in my 3
things. And I can't control the the
ones, the rain, the monsoon. Thank you for all the good luck
that we've gotten. But it was.
I mean, Seattle has never gottenthat much rain.

(13:38):
Yeah, Seattle had a moment. Seattle's showing up.
Seattle was having a whole moment.
This is so bad. We rented one of those like old
timey cars, but old timey cars ain't supposed to be in rain.
So while we're in the car, not only are fumes being kicked back
into the car, so that probably didn't help my nausea, but also

(13:59):
it's torrential downpour and those old windshield wipers are
trying to keep up and it's leaking on to my mom.
And so my mom, and who's in the front seat, she has towels and
she's holding the water out. And so like, and we'd rented a
party bus for all the people. Perfect for her.
God, right. Just my daughter's beautiful day
and I'm. Yeah, it was magical.

(14:21):
The party bus for. Your the party bus for our
people that afterwards we were supposed to go down to the pier.
Very Seattle lovely fall situation.
No, couldn't do that. You had no Plan B.
And then Balogun was right up the hill.
So we went and did their their set for Les Mis was opening or
that show was opening that night.

(14:42):
And so our grooms, my matron of honor and the best man owned
Polygon at the time, and they were like, we'll just go take it
to the theater. Wait, I have I I don't think
I've ever seen these photos. They're horrible.
I've never seen wedding photos on a les misstate, but also the
I need to see. Oh my God, there's so bad.

(15:02):
And like us sitting in the audience.
Like there was some like of us sitting in the audience.
I remember those with the with the sunglasses.
Sunglasses on and there's one ofus at a bar That's cute.
Yeah, but there's like, out of the billion that they took,
there's probably 4. It's also just the company these
blue. They don't even I don't think
they exist anymore and for good reason because there was just

(15:23):
like, have you ever and our we got married in a church.
They didn't bring anything. I was like, have you ever taken
a photo in a church? Do you know how to do?
This because it looks like a funeral.
Like it was. Yeah, there's like very few good
photos of my wedding. I mean selfishly, I have a great
photo of me and. You do Jeff, but that was taken

(15:45):
by Danielle. So my mom, but she was in Les
Mis. She was in the show and so she
couldn't do the whole thing because she was my she was, of
course, our first Daniel bar call out.
She's excellent, but she could only come for me getting ready,
so the me getting ready photos excellent.
Yeah, those photos are. The ones that we all see from my

(16:07):
wedding, All Daniel, the rest? Oh, interesting.
They're horrible. Because then she had to go.
Yeah, I don't, I, I, I either didn't retain that story or I
don't know. But man, I want to see those
pictures now. They're so bad, they're so bad,
but you know what a good story to have it is?
Listen, it's a fun story and also no wedding is without

(16:31):
drama. Remember when we got married in
the mountains in December and there was black ice everywhere
and we were like, oh, by the way, could you guys just cross 2
mountain passes? And by the way, there's black
ice and also there's frozen fog.So everyone flying in from New
York, you can't land. You're going to try to land.
And then we had, we had people, we had friends from New York
that had made it as far as the Redmond airport, Circled the

(16:54):
airport for an hour, got diverted to LAXA bunch of people
coming from random different places ended up on the same
plane trying to get back to Redmond.
It left LAX, went to Redmond, circled the airport, went back
to LAX, did that twice and they couldn't land.
Yeah, we had people stuck in Seattle.
Everyone's like renting cars. We had friends that were stuck
in Utah trying to drive from Utah.

(17:16):
It was such a disaster, but everyone made it.
I do remember the fog because wecame late, right, Because of, I
don't remember what, some kind of job, but we were coming late
and I remember it night time andit was just a sheet like you
could not see. Yeah, 4 inches in front of the
car. And black ice and you're on

(17:37):
mountain roads and I'm glad thatyou couldn't see because it is
like a steep drop. Off good, that's.
Good. And you have like a cute little
guardrail, like those little like, I don't even know what
they are. They're probably galvanized
steel, but still in my mind, they're like aluminum.
And they're like, oh, we're justhere to make you think you're
secure, but if you run into this, you're going over the
edge. Yeah, no, it was.
I remember being very scary, butwe did, everyone made it and the

(18:02):
actual wedding was incredible. It was, it was very beautiful.
It was so cold. It was 20.
Well, it was 8° and we were outside in.
Formal wear, you can take that up with my husband.
Listen. Epic, epic, epic.
So epic. You know what made it more epic,
though, was your hair. I did not expect your hair to

(18:24):
look that way. It was like like, I don't know,
like I didn't know. I didn't know, like you had this
beautiful dress, of course, but then I didn't know like, 'cause
you had kind of like a faux hockey, wasn't it?
Kind of faux hockey. It was a braid.
Yeah, it was a like a giant. Giant.
Braid. Yes, it essentially.
Looked like a faux hawk. And so it added this like really
cool edge. You're so edgy with your like,

(18:46):
fur, right? But that was the biggest
surprise, 'cause I was like, yes.
Fo hug you best. Yeah.
Everyone was like, oh, it's yourwedding, you're going to want
your hair down. I love how everyone tells you
what you're going to want when you get married, by the way,
You're going to want this. You're going to want that.
I was like, oh, it's your wedding, you're going to want
your hair down. And I was like, no, I don't.
I don't want to be dealing with it.
I don't want to be judging it every 10 minutes.

(19:07):
My hair does not like to hold shape.
I got a perm in 3rd grade and itliterally lasted for two days.
I know we'll come back to the. I got a spiral perm.
It was the 90s, Yeah. It let literally lasted for two
days and then my hair went back to being just like flat.
So no curler. No, so like she can't.
So she doesn't hold. She don't like it.
And I was like, I'm not going todeal with this.

(19:29):
I want to just like not have to think about my hair.
I want to not have to think about anything.
I just want to like enjoy my time.
So then I was looking through updos and of course, like for
six months I was like, I hate everything.
Everything's stupid. I hate everything.
Everything's dumb and then like randomly I'm scrolling through
Instagram and there's this Russian or Ukrainian, to be

(19:50):
fair, I don't know, hair stylistwho is like speaking a mile a
minute in her native language about this hairstyle.
And I'm watching her do it. And then they like do a like a
flash to the final image. And I was like, that's the one.
It's that one. And I.
Like, shopped it around to a couple people and everyone was
like, is that really what you want for your wedding?

(20:10):
And I was like, you know what? Fuck all of you.
Yeah, yes, it is. Never mind this.
Whatever. That's what I get for asking
other people. Yes, it's what I want.
I fucking loved it. Yeah, I loved.
It I loved it. It was just unexpected.
But that is also very on brand for you.
Yeah. So I was just like, like you
walked out. I was like, yeah, yes, you
better. You better.
You better I can still with bow in the middle, which isn't that

(20:35):
so I mean just like full circle coming back to cabaret.
Oh my God, Bo brought us together and married me and my
husband. And sang in mine.
Come on, Bo. We love you, we do pull it
together. Let's go.

(20:56):
So that's the story of how we met.
And wait, what was that 20/12/2012?
Because then we moved to New York in 2013.
So cabaret was summer of 2012. Yes, because you came back for
my wedding, Yes. Yeah, because.
Yeah, because. We got married in 2013.
Winter Wonderettes, the show that will never die, I love.
That show. And yeah, then we moved to New

(21:19):
York, then I came back for your wedding, and then we and then
we, you weren't in fitness yet at that point, right?
I taught yoga. You did teach yoga then?
Yeah, I got wait. Wait a second, wait.
A second no, maybe I wasn't. I remember talking to you when

(21:39):
you were thinking about doing teacher training and I was like,
bit you better. Like, let's come on.
I did because I did teacher training. 2015, yeah.
February 2015 I think. I feel like I remember talking
to you about it. I just.
Did a lot of yoga. You came to take my class in
Tribeca, Yeah. Yeah, I just came across that
photo the other day. And we, oh, I want to see it.

(22:01):
And we had breakfast at Le Pan Cotidia and I feel like I
remember talking to you about itthere.
We were like, do I should I? And I was like, yes, of course
you should. God, really?
See that's the stuff I like 100%.
Not black out, but. No, just time gets fuzzy.
Once you have children, time means nothing and it gets very

(22:21):
fuzzy. I also feel like once you get
older, time means nothing and isvery fuzzy.
God, 20, 2015, that's how you sound.
But so now I'm going through photos anyway, I'll come off.
I almost sent it to you because it was so it was so random.
We were in some like random fitness room.

(22:41):
In the studio, In the studio at Tribeca, the red walls.
It was Equinox, right? That's my Friday morning Tribeca
class. Loved that class.
Shout out to my Tribeca peeps. I mean, there's cabaret right
there, so. The feather Boas.
The feather Boas there's. So much happening.
Just we babies, we were just, webabies.

(23:03):
We were so tiny. And there's us.
Oh my God, Oh my God, let me seeit.
Oh. It's the night.
Oh my God. Wait.
Oh my God. OK, my red.
Pixie hair. Loved your red Pixie hair
though. I did too.
That was a that was a great thatwas a great moment in my hair's
life. You as a bum.

(23:24):
She's still she was still comingout of her LA.
No, I did not on a whim. And then I got engaged and I
said out the door with that, I'mnot getting married looking like
this. I hated.
It anyway, So did you really? Yeah.
Well, I think you wear it well. Thanks.
I had Bo just looking like a baby.
He's a baby. I mean, we all look like babies.
I know. Look at Eric.

(23:46):
Come on. So cute I.
Love this picture. I know but also that look at
that. That's why it was so loud.
Just like a, what do you call it, balcony over a whole ass
restaurant and bar on a Friday night.
On a Friday night. In Seattle?
In downtown Seattle, yeah. It was so dark that we couldn't
get any good pictures of like usactually getting engaged.

(24:09):
Oh my God. Because our friends are
photographers and we're like, can you?
And and they were like, we did our best, but it's so dark.
It was very dark, It was. There's like just candles
lighting the room. Yeah, it was.
Listen, the mood lighting was mood.
It was mood. There was some mood.
But like, do I even wear my ring?
No. They just get in the way.
They snag. They're just so they're so

(24:30):
cumbersome. They're just a lot.
Oh my God, come on, what is it? Oh my God, baby Roslyn.
OK, this was. This Is this even podcast
worthy? Now?
We're just sharing? Yeah.
Now we're just sharing photos that nobody that's listening.
You can't see it. It's great you wish you could

(24:51):
see this. This is a photo of us at the
Pride Festival in San Francisco the year that Prop 8 was
overturned. Oh yeah.
So I'm like, we're going to takethe Bart, We're going to go
early, right? Like we're experiencing with
pride at this point. She's she's three years old in

(25:11):
this photo with her Lady Gaga Born This Way flag.
She waved that shit around all day long.
Like anybody that would make eyecontact with her, she would like
wave it at them. Yeah, so aggressive.
Are Born This Way. And so I was like, OK, we're
going to take the Bart. We're going to go super early.
We're going to grab lunch, We'regoing to leave early.
Let me tell you, we got there at10 AM.

(25:33):
Shit was already so unhinged. Yeah, so unhinged.
Yeah. But also, like, Prop 8 had just
been overturned. I'm pretty sure people just
didn't sleep. They were just, like,
celebrating all day and night and then all day and then all
night. And just like didn't stop.
That's when you call me. That's the picture of the
children. I remember setting that as your
background at 8 oz burger. We were, we're all there before

(25:57):
going to see a show maybe or Justin was the bone and Justin
were there. Who else was there?
Why were we there? We were having dinner there and
I remember setting that as your your background.
Just I think it was my background for a while because
it was. It's such a great picture.
It's so outrageous. Just like you raging against the
machine. I love a good outtake.

(26:18):
I think all headshots. Should be outtakes.
Yeah, it really does. Like speak to your personality
and like those are the people you want.
I'm still looking for that photo.
I'll find it though. You will, I believe.
It is just so funny that our like this is the beginning of my
my phone photos. That photo.
No, but like, but like our relationship is it's top tier.

(26:42):
It's right that it's right up there.
So what you're saying is our relationship inspired you to
start documenting your life. That's what you're saying.
It's basically inspirational, truly.
Wilson. That video also that I just
resurfaced the other day of the dressing room cabaret pre show.
Oh yeah, I got it on here, Yeah.Whipping, smacking with the belt
because he wanted welds. Real ones, not fake ones.

(27:05):
Don't. He didn't want makeup.
He's one of the real actor. Yeah.
He's OK. Well, it's gone for but I'm sad
you moved away because then you you missed some real choice
things that you would have been part of.
I know like a spoon in Vegas. Oh.
Yeah, the which happened right after parade.
Yeah, but Vegas with a gaggle ofgays and me and my straight

(27:26):
husband. Yeah, ain't nothing like it.
Just you guys, just you straights.
Just the straights Mac surges was there so you know he's.
Like 5050. God love him.
Oh. But also, every man in theater
is 5050. Even if they're not, they still
are. Yeah.
It's just the way of it. It's just the way of it that's
just sign a contract. It's just the spectrum.

(27:48):
It's like if you're an artist, you understand that the
sexuality spectrum is not binaryno matter how you try to make it
so and no matter how you identify either, right?
Like there's just so many. I don't want to say there aren't
boundaries in theater, but like.There maybe should be more.
Boundaries are different in theater than in the real world.
There should probably be more. Yeah, welcome to It's a no.

(28:12):
It's nothing. It's everything.
It's everything. Why?
Because we talk about everythingand.
Nothing and all of it doesn't. Matter, and none of it matters.
And all of it matters. Everything's important, but at
the end of the day, nothing's important.
Nothing's important, and that's the beauty of life because it's
all what you make it. And what the fuck do we do with
that life? Yeah, we do life.

(28:35):
We do life. And we make it what we want.
How can we calm our nervous system at all times?
Do we want to make it nothing? Do we want to make it
everything? How can we calm our nervous
system at all times? You know what we should do?
We should start No, I was going to say we should start with like
breath work. We should start just to ground
ourselves. But then no, because if we're
leading it, then we I can't be doing.

(28:56):
It No, I can't be, but I do think that it's important to
have something that is like havean intro like a glow up or
something like something that brings us that it and I think it
could be called like the nervoussystem check in check up because
I was talking to Bo. He's everywhere and he's

(29:19):
nowhere. About 2024 was so important for
my nervous system. And I spent, like, real time
trying to figure out what is, like, homeostasis for my nervous
system. Yeah.
Like, what keeps me even in timeof chaos, what keeps me grounded

(29:39):
and, like, feeling the floor beneath me.
And so I spent all. I think of 2024.
That was a big shift. That was one of my biggest
shifts. Same, Yeah.
Well, maybe that's what we talked about.
It was a big year of like the awareness that coping mechanisms
aren't working and aren't helpful.

(29:59):
And then like, I mean, and then it's so hard to, at least for me
because then I was like, OK, do the research, go back, do the
analysis. What's happened in the past
that's contributed to these, to these unhelpful functions that I
utilize right now to like, make myself feel OK?
Coping, not coping, avoiding magnifying unnecessarily.

(30:19):
Snowballing. Snowballing, God damn it.
And then like, and then I would get stuck in the cycle of like,
of like, like obsessive analysisof the past.
Oh, sure. Which it's like, how do you find
the balance between looking at historical moments and saying,
oh, I could learn from that. And then also not like living

(30:40):
there and then finding not only something sustainable, but for
me at least, it was like, what is authentic to me and not a
reaction of my past, which is not authentic to me.
It is an an emotional response to things that happened, some of
which were outside my control. I get a lot of that in 2020

(31:01):
More. Yeah, it's funny because talking
about the conversation I had with Randy, one of my students
this morning about we can't do anything about the past, right?
She was talking about very big topics of like injustice and you
know, Holocaust and things like very big, really intense,

(31:23):
horrible things and the some of the guilt that people feel now
about stuff like that and teaching children, because
that's what she's a teacher teaching us not to feel the
guilt of that, but to learn fromit.
So the same just on a micro, more micro level of personnel or
personal growth of I can look inthe past and I can learn from

(31:46):
it, but I'm not going to carry shit with me anymore because it
no longer serves my nervous system right now, right?
That doesn't do anything for me.I can just learn from it.
And if I start to feel it again then it's How can I get out of
it quicker? Yeah, yeah.
How can you arm yourself with the tools to recognize it and

(32:08):
then move in any given? Direction.
And if you don't do anything, and that's what she was saying,
she's like, we can feel it. But if we see injustice happen
now and we do nothing, then we can start to feel some guilt and
shame. And I feel like there's no,
that's no different. That's the difference between
victimizing ourselves, the victimhood that some people do

(32:29):
and or the explosion that some people do, if that makes sense.
Yeah. Some people go and explode all
their feelings on other people. Some people go so internal that
they are victims of their own doing.
Yeah. Because they don't want to deal
with the shenanigans of what's happening.
It's hard, especially. When you're not, this is not

(32:50):
exclusive to our generation. I think this was exclusive to
many generations before us as well.
But the idea that like there aregood and bad feelings and if
you're having a quote UN quote bad feeling, don't have it.
So suppress it, make it go away and like that doesn't serve any
of us. Hello.
Yeah, or those people that are on the the flip side of that is

(33:11):
the people who are on the journey of figuring out their
emotions and letting them be so enveloping.
Is that the right word? I'm I'm looking for?
Yeah. It's so encapsulating that you
bring those down around you. Yeah, the people that are you
project onto everybody, right. Because you're like, I'm trying
to figure out my life. I'm feeling my feelings.

(33:32):
I'm. Feeling my feelings don't tell
me no, don't feel my feelings. And I mean, that's that post
that he's talking about. It's like, how do you find, you
know, balance between killing everybody around you and or
killing yourself slowly? I mean, balance is the hardest
part. What was that peak posture this
morning? Super soldier, super soldier,

(33:55):
that sneaky bitch. The minute I would, because I'd
be there and I'd be like, oh, I got this and I would like get my
hips open and that rotation, that feet femoral rotation.
But the minute I would rotate mycervical spine, which arguably
is like this much smaller thing to rotate, all my balance would
go to shit and I'd like I'm going to.

(34:16):
Follow. It's an idea of going from macro
to micro. And it's always the micro shit
that throws you off. The most?
But also always the micro shit that like gets you into balance
the best. Yeah.
So tricky. And I also feel like there's
such a duality when you're like reflecting on the past, going
back to what we were just saying, when you're like
reflecting on the past and how do you use it for good?

(34:38):
How do you use it to learn and collect data and at the same
time not stay there and live there in the past and like dwell
on it and at the same time go back to those past versions of
you and say it's OK that you exist.
It's OK that you weren't perfect.
It's OK that whatever judgment Iwould, I place on you or I would

(35:01):
place on a neutral person who was having these reactions or
these behaviors or whatever, allof those are OK.
And I love you. And it's OK that you don't
present yourself now in the way that you used to.
But like making peace with the versions of yourself in the past
that are less than ideal or however we choose to judge them

(35:21):
or label them and learn from that and be OK with it and say,
I never want that to happen again.
It's so fucking hard. I mean, being human being is
nuanced to say the least, and sohard and so detailed and so
glorious and so never ending. I mean the the not holding shame

(35:46):
for past it. I mean, that's, I think that's
my 2025 is the thing that I'm learning is like you can
constantly change. Like when you find it's like
childhood, right? You're like, OK, we got that
sleep on lock. Four days later, they're going
to be into some other developmental situation.

(36:07):
Yeah. In.
In where were we told that that should stop?
Yeah, right. Like that, developing ourselves
as human beings should stop. Well, yeah, because you're an
adult now, so therefore you haveit all figured.
Out so you got to figure it out and I I am guilty of that where
I'll be like OK, this is the Tori this is her We feel good.

(36:27):
I'm not this is Sumati. This is my highest self.
But I'm I will not be reincarnated.
I did it. That's not the case, like,
right, Because like something will trigger me in a way that I
haven't even explored yet. That will surprise me.
And that's where me personally, I'll snowball.
Yeah. Because I'll just be like, what

(36:50):
is this feeling? I don't like it.
How do I deal with it well and also.
If you or I'll speak for myself,a big realization that I've had
over this past year is like if Iquote UN quote, do the work to
heal myself, to grow to whateverand I achieve whatever goal I
had in the work that I was doing.

(37:10):
And I and I then like deceive myself into believing that
that's enough. All that does is is make me
rigid in a different way becausethen I'm like, oh, I've grown
full stop. Put a period on it.
But in order for for that to be the end of the progress, that

(37:31):
also means the entire ass world around you has to never change.
Because if you are that rigid, you cannot respond flexibly to
any outside influence ever. Because you're like, OK, this is
me here and now in this moment, in this environment that I'm in
today, on this Sunday, and therefore everything's fine and
I'm fixed and everything's fine.But what happens on Monday when

(37:53):
something different happens? Yeah.
And then, like, you have to like, go through the whole
process all over again. And I feel like I'm finally
realizing at nearly 40 that like, the only way to actually
grow is to always be growing andalways be evolving and always be
responding flexibly to the worldaround me rather than trying to

(38:19):
control the world around me. Because we know we can't control
anybody. Or anything.
Or anything we. Can't control a pandemic?
Nope, We can't control buses, you know what I'm saying?
They're coming from like everybody going to be hit by a
bus at some point, you know, I mean, just like just 100%.

(38:39):
And coming back to the idea of how do you calm your nervous
system? Yeah, for me, it was when there
is turmoil internally and I can feel, you know, those like those
little things where you're like,I am not in my body, I am not
here, I am not anything. It's becoming super hyper

(39:02):
vigilant at becoming present. Yeah, right.
Because we can't control anything that's happened.
We can't control what is yet to come.
What I can control is my body, my thoughts, my space.
Right here. And that actually is sense of
self, right? Like if you truly have a strong
sense of self, that means that you can react in any scenario

(39:24):
and not only an authentic way, but like in a in a healthy way
because you are so grounded in who you are.
And that's, I mean, there's always going to be exceptions.
Right. I mean, right, because people
do, you know, we are all human. And traumatic should happen.
And traumatic. Should happens I I will say that
I have been Pat told me one timeand it was like such a honest

(39:48):
not accusation. It's not the right word, but
like comment on who I am as a person.
He said, Tori, you're so and this is not to toot my own harm
because sometimes I think this is is not great, but like you're
so I'm so authentic that it is scary for people, right, because
I'm holding a mirror up to a lotof people because for me, I'm

(40:10):
I'm like. I have no hidden agendas or
anything like that. I'm literally living so
presently moment to moment One, it's exhausting, but also two,
it is can be a little selfish, right?
Because I'm just I'm dealing. I feel like it can come off
selfish because I'm. I am.

(40:33):
My nervous system is that important.
I made it that big of a priorityfor me.
Because if it is out of whack, everything I've just noticed in
my life starts to like, it trickles down.
Yeah. It hits not only my work, it
hits my family, it hits my kids,it hits my husband, it hits my
friends. It hits everything.
Yeah. And so I'm like, I'm in charge
of getting that shit high and tight.

(40:56):
That's my job. It's part of my job.
And but sometimes, you know, certain people don't deserve
that authentic side of you. Yes, and well, I also feel like
This is why we. Coexist so well.
Coexist so well because we both are so much like I am

(41:16):
authentically who I am. And I'm not going to
unapologetically, unapologetically, I'm not going
to present myself in any certainway to gain acceptance or gain
approval or gain appreciation. And I mean, it's always like,
it's such a difficult line to tow because like, why?
Why? I mean, this goes like it to

(41:38):
such a broader conversation of like societal expectations of
adults, of women, of mothers, ofprofessionals, of all the
things, right? Like I used to put so much
pressure on myself and work environments to like say the
exact right thing 100% of the time.
If I'm presenting, if I'm leading a meeting, whatever, I'm
like, I must speak correctly andonly speak in like corporate
speak. And like that first of all, is

(42:00):
not authentic to me at all, right?
But but also like, am I? What is the goal, right?
Is the goal that I'm actually meant to communicate something?
Or is the goal that I meant to like present something?
And sometimes we are meant to just present something, which
means I don't have to be 100% authentically me.
But it also means that like you are always having to find that
balance. It's back to balance, right?

(42:21):
In any given scenario, what is the purpose?
And like in a social setting or in a setting where, I mean, I
would even argue in some professional settings where you
have to put yourself first, especially in performing, I
mean, my God, it's so different in performing than in like the
average corporate environment. You are the product and so you

(42:46):
have to one, act professionally,but two, protect the product and
so like how do you? That is the season I am in right
now. Yeah.
And like, how do you be authentic about who you are?
Because you are the product and it affects you so deeply on a
spiritual level. Also in theater where like just

(43:07):
the baseline is to take advantage of people,
unfortunately. And then like, how do you, how
do you, how do you find that theability to remain authentic to
yourself and be presentational enough that you are performing
your role? I mean, talk about, I mean,
you're literally nailing all the, the, all the nails on the

(43:28):
head, all the coffins into the head.
That's literally. Nailing coffins in my head.
Sometimes that's what that feelslike about teacher training,
where I'm like, I have to present this thing, right?
Yeah, just yoga. So.
But there's no just about it. There's nothing.

(43:49):
Is just. But I mean, just like yoga is
such a huge thing, yeah. How can we make it more
tangible, more you know? Yeah, how do you fit it into a
binder? How do you put it into a binder?
You know, like all the yes. And is what I'm saying that the
most up to And so, yeah, it's why me, we're

(44:28):
going to find out day one when Iverbally diarrhea everywhere
because that's what I do when I get nervous.
But that's but keeping yet again, I'll come back to that.
I can only control myself right now, so slow it down.
Like, how can I ground myself? And I mean, to the point where

(44:49):
people think it's so silly, but I'm like, put your butt on the
ground. Yeah, right.
Like get outside the box of whatwe think is like lighting a
candle and or some incense and turning lights down and calming
down that way. That doesn't mean you're
internally calm. Right, that means your
environment is calm. Yeah, yeah.
So like what do you need? And I'll ask you, Kimberly

(45:10):
Mcbarron, what do you need when you are chaos internally?
What do you? What are some tools that you do?
Oh my God. I will say box breathing is
usually helpful for me. So funny.
Box breathing really makes me chaotic.
Really, I I'm probably the only person in the entire.

(45:32):
World I have to do, but I have to do it very specifically.
I have to do it. I have to do in the nose, out
the mouth. I don't do a traditional 4444 or
22222. It is like the counts are
different and it really depends on the situation too.
It depends on how heightened I am.
Like if I am in full anxiety panic and my heart rate is 5

(45:52):
million miles an hour, that breathing technique is going to
look a lot different than if I'mjust like, OK, I got to prepare
for a meeting and I'm like, I'm feeling a little bit anxious
about it. And so I just need to like
ground myself and take some deepbreaths and do like some lion's
breath in the mirror. If I am in like deep anxious
panic, I usually have to isolatemyself, like get away from

(46:13):
people like if my and it, which is hard when you have kids,
right? Because like they want to climb
on you, they want to be around you.
They get comfort by being near you.
And I am like allergic to physical touch when I'm anxious,
like I don't want to feel anyone's energy.
I don't want to feel anyone's physical presence.
I need to be like a lone like put me in an isolation chamber.

(46:34):
Put me in the coffin, put me in the.
Coffin put me inside that coffin.
It should be sound proofed. Noise is really agitating for
me. Really agitating for me.
So like I pop in the headphones,I turn on the noise cancelling
rushing water. Not like a cute trickle of like
a bubbling brook, but like rushing water for whatever

(46:56):
reason is really helpful for me.Like Rapids?
Yeah, or like or like, yeah, like a full on river or like
Niagara Falls. Yes, OK.
Really helpful for me. For some reason I have to touch
myself. I have.
We're on a podcast game for late.
Oh, it's not that kind of podcast.
I have to feel. I have to like remind myself

(47:17):
that I am a physical being. Yes, I have to like put my
hands. Usually it's one hand on my
heart, one hand on my on my lower abdomen.
And I have to be like here, I amhere.
And I have a mantra that I say to myself every single time you
are here, you are safe, you are present.
And I have to, like, brain my brainwash myself, brain myself.
I have to, like, brainwash myself into believing those

(47:38):
things. I am here right now.
I am here right now. I am safe.
There is no lion charging after my family.
There are no bombs being droppedon my house.
There. Like in this moment, I am safe.
Even if my body feels very unsafe, I am safe in this
moment. I am present.
I am present. It is Sunday afternoon.
I am here with Tori. Like this is the moment right

(48:00):
here. And I have to say it over and
over and over and over again until I believe it.
Yeah, I don't. Grounding doesn't work for me.
Like feeling my feet on the floor doesn't work for me.
Meditation when I'm like that spun up doesn't work for me.
Like lighting some incense and lighting candles doesn't work

(48:20):
for me. I need but but I will say bright
lights do not work for me either.
I have to get into like a darkeror like more Moody environment.
Typically I have to close my eyes because everything is over
stimulating. Sure.
I just have to like shrink the outside world to come back to
myself. And sometimes it doesn't work.

(48:41):
Sometimes I have to you. Don't have all those things.
Yeah, sometimes you don't have all those things.
Sometimes I have to like press pause on it and just like, walk
around with that heightened anxiety until I can address it.
And sometimes that means like I am a fucking tornado in my house
and to my family until I can like spend 3 hours in the
bathtub and just like marinate into.

(49:04):
In your own juices. In my own juices yeah yeah, it's
tricky and it took me a long time to like figure out and it
it's a tool bag right don't always work yeah it's a tool bag
but also like you have to get curious and I feel like we're
it's very easy to be prescribed things to do to Co regulate your
nervous system because there areso many tools out there but like

(49:27):
you know if we had like a card deck of options yeah it's not
like they're not interchangeablefor me no, the other thing is
singing bulls with lower residents if I find like lower
residents singing bulls on on Spotify and turn it up hell out.
Loud. Interesting.

(49:48):
Yeah. So you're really auditory.
Super auditory. Super auditory.
Yeah. Interesting.
Yeah. What about you?
Grounding does help me a lot. I would say yes.
Same with the feeling of feelingmyself.
I did learn this technique of butterfly taps which I did the

(50:11):
other day and I was like part. I think it depends on butterfly
taps being you cross your arms on your chest and you alternate
between tapping a shoulder or your, you know, chest.
But I think it would depend on what kind of anxiety I'm having
if because I feel like this would also aggravate me

(50:34):
depending. So I think it depends.
I think it depends on if I need to come into my actual physical
body or if I'm already in my physical body and how do I
slightly balance coming out right like.
You've retreated too. Far I've retreated too far.
That's that can be an issue for me where I'll retreat too deep
and to where I'm second guessingabsolutely every feeling, every

(51:00):
morsel of every every little just molecule of my body.
I'm like, what is that? What I can feel everything
internally. Which one?
My gosh, I saw not even the fullmovie.
I haven't seen Inside Out 2 yet,but I saw just, it was probably
15 seconds of her anxiety attackand I started a ball right where

(51:24):
I was. Yeah.
Anyway. But I was like, what a beautiful
visual representation. What?
What your insides feel like. So smart, those Pixar people.
Those move both, both of those movies.
So smart, so smart. So smart.
So good. Thank God our kids have these
tools. Thank God, because we're having

(51:44):
to do it the hard way. Yeah.
I mean, now we also have those tools.
I'm not ashamed. I literally today on my way
here, I was like, you know what I want tonight?
I want to go home and force everybody to watch Inside Out
too with me. Yeah, because they watched it
without me. I was so mad.
I was like, shame on you. Screw you, Pat.
And which I said to his face, I was like, screw you, man.

(52:05):
That was. But he did.
God bless him, trying to show all sides.
He like ugly cried in front of the boys.
And one of our boys is like, Daddy don't.
Yeah, my eldest doesn't. He's which we've never talked
about. Yeah, but around people around
him, right? But even our, I mean, well, yes
and no. I don't know where it comes from

(52:26):
because it started very young where he'd be like, anytime
you'd feel emotion, he'd be like, turn it off.
And I was like, who are you? You're not.
You didn't come from me. Yeah.
Let it out be authentically you and everyone at all times.
And so like learning as a parenthow to give him those tools now
has been is going to be really interesting and probably hard

(52:49):
Yeah, and messy as all parts of parented are.
But anyway I so brownie I will say candles do help me warm
light. Yeah.
Like warm, soft music. There's something that's very
nostalgic about like a George Winston piano.

(53:11):
Sure, because I'm an 87 year oldman.
But we grew up. We grew up on it.
So, Yanni. Don't fuck with Yanni, bro.
Thanks for laughing. Some Yanni.
Some yo-yo ma slaps. He slaps yo-yo ma slaps.
I love me some. Just like gentle music.
Sure, Yanni. I don't know if I but my brother

(53:35):
would love a Yanni. He does love a Yanni.
I don't see. I would not peg that about him
at all. Oh my gosh, he has got some
weird savant music. Like you can play anything
instrumental from any soundtrackand my brother will know the
composer and what it's from. It's always been like that.
That's fun. It's it's incredible.

(53:58):
And I was like, give me that kiss.
Give Ross. Just keep it as yours.
Yeah, you don't need that. Wasting it.
I'm so mad about that, that you got that.
And I'm like, huh, Gershwin. I don't know.
What do you mean? Read music?
Oh, yeah, I've tried so many times.
Got A's in all those classes. Still can't read music.

(54:22):
Clarify. Clarify that.
What's coming, babe? No.
But I think the biggest thing for me just to keep like balance
is movement. Yeah.
Any kind of movement, Yeah, walking has been a huge thing
for me, which seems like, so, you know, just go for a walk.

(54:45):
It's like I'll walk anywhere though.
I'll walk around my kitchen. I will walk to the bathroom and
back. I will walk outside is always
beautiful, but like, I got a walking pad just for that.
Yeah. Because we live in the Pacific
Northwest. She get Moody.
Yuck, I know girls. But we have hummingbirds to look
out outside. Oh, it's a moon.

(55:08):
I was like, why is the moon so big?
And in my tree. And in the tree.
Oh, it's supposed to be a full moon tonight, I believe.
Yeah, it's supposed to be a pretty dramatic one too.
That's. What I heard, So we got some big
shifts. We got some big shifts, not to
go full on everybody, but yeah, walk in.
I think any kind, I mean movement, if I'm like real high

(55:29):
high, it's a yoga for me. Yeah, well, that intentional
breath to movement forces you into your body in a way that
nothing else does. Yeah, and the heat, the heat is
a big too sauna. I got a sauna because because of
that. That's just one of those like
trashy ones from Amazon. It's lovely.
One of those like zippy zippy ones that looks like a big old
Boo box in my house. But also like the alternative is

(55:52):
paying $5000 for one. No, I don't.
Have that kind of coin on me andit was a gift for my husband.
So thank you, Pat. But come on, Pat.
He uses it too. But it's it's really, I think
it's the elements. Yeah, right.
The elements. I we forget because you've
mentioned water, I mentioned heat.
Air, Earth, wind and fire. Earth, Wind and Fire.

(56:12):
It's a full September moment. My parents loved Earth Fire.
Mine too. I mean, still do.
They're not dead. They still like it.
But anyway, James Taylor, he's also another calm my nervous.
System, yeah. JT Oh yes, absolutely.

(56:34):
Guitar music, I think too. When Nick and I first started
dating, my use of the term or the phrase go take a hike is
very different from his. I think.
I don't know if it's West Coast,East Coast, or if it's like
family to family. But like when when we would get
into scenarios where like eithersomething happened to him and he

(56:57):
was feeling super emotional or like we were having tension and
we were feeling super emotional.I'd be like, do you need to go
take a hike? And he would get like, so upset
because to me, it's like, you just leave, please, can you
please get out of here, Get out of here.
Because to me, it's like if if Iam in a scenario where I know
things are not going in a good direction and I know I'm
spiraling out of control, I'm like, I got to go and take a

(57:19):
hike, which to me is like, I'm going to leave.
I'm going to go for a walk. Like you said, go for a walk,
Clear my head, Like, get out of this yuck that I feel right now.
But for him, he has like a very East Coast understanding of go
take a hike. Yeah.
Which is like, go fuck yourself.Yeah.
That's how I take it. So, OK, so I guess.
It's just disappointment. It might be.

(57:39):
It might just be an Oregon thing.
Because you guys really do hike.Hey babe, do you need to go take
a hike? It's like so thoughtful.
Hey babe, you wanna go fuck yourself?
Excuse me? Yeah, I will never forget his
face the first time I said that.And I was.
And I was like, what? What did I say?
What's funny too? Is like, I know colloquially how

(58:00):
that phrase is utilized, but I'mjust like so used to it meaning
what it means to me that I was like, obviously he knows I
didn't mean it like that, but like no, he didn't because he's
never heard it that way before and to be fair, it's me.
Maybe I would have said it and meant it the other way in some
scenarios. Also you're.
Actually like no, literally go take.
A hike. Can you please go take a hike
right now please? That's so funny, but taking a

(58:24):
hike but also walking music and taking a hike.
And also being able to like, respect and respond to that in
the moment and, and be able to acknowledge like here is a
moment where I have to separate myself.
I have to remove myself. I have to go like walk it out,
flush it out, clear it out, whatever.
What do you think stops people from doing it?

(58:45):
Oh my God. I mean, but how long do we?
Have not that long, but like I, I mean like what's the like?
Because of course it's going to change per per person.
Yeah. But I think on like just like a
really basic level. Do people think that it's silly?
Oh, for sure. Because of ego.
I think it's, I think ego is a lot of it.
People think it's silly. People are like, I don't need

(59:07):
that. I don't.
Need a candle? Yeah, I don't need to.
I don't need to do that by myself.
For me personally, I can find 100 excuses because there's
because the because the To Do List is so long right to where I
can very easily justify not doing it because I don't have
the time. But the reality is if I don't
take the time now, I'm going to take more time away from that To

(59:27):
Do List later on when I have a full blown meltdown.
Yeah, there's the crux of the biscuit.
And that is still like a constant negotiation in my mind.
That's that is where you and I are opposite because it's a non
negotiable for me and it's an everyday practice.
It's an ever and I think that's but this is where I had a

(59:48):
conversation with a friend of mine cuz she's like man, you're
so good at like this quote UN quote self-care.
Stuff. Right, which that's a different
time, different combo. Yeah, but but I do, I do put
myself at the top of my prioritylist.
Bless you. Like is it coming?
Is it not coming? Look at the look at the moon,

(01:00:11):
usually. Usually it's awesome.
Yeah, looking at the light will stop a sneeze.
Look at that. Or if you can say bless you
before they do it, usually you'll knock them out anyway.
Tips and tricks Tori. Brains are fascinating.
Brains are. Fascinating.
But I think it's because I've taken a motherhood, probably
kicked it into high gear for me because I was like, if I am

(01:00:32):
falling apart, everything will fall apart.
But yeah, it's but also I am privileged in what I do for a
job. It allows time, right?
Which is not everybody's scenario, but I'm also that
person who could never, ever stay in a job that I absolutely

(01:00:53):
hated to pay the bills. I'll be like, I'll live in a
fucking box. Yeah, you know, but at least
I'll be happy right in my box where some people will work jobs
that they don't absolutely love and to pay to, to have the money
so that they can enjoy life, which is yes, man, you better be
enjoying life. I had that same.
I had that conversation with a student this morning.

(01:01:16):
Yeah, if that's the trade off you're making, you better be
making the trade off. Yeah, But every day, every
morning, I get up and like, it'sjust like sending an intention
to the beginning of my yoga class.
It's like, how does how does Tori feel today?
Yeah, Yeah, it might. And if I don't like, I also had
to tell myself, like when I jump, when I get jump out of
bed, I'm not jumping anywhere. But like, if it takes me a
little bit of time to warm up into the day, that's OK because

(01:01:39):
I used to like really be hard onmyself, be like, well, obviously
I'm not going to have a good daybecause I'm tired right now.
Yeah. What?
Chill out T. Everyone else on this whole
planet wakes up feeling invigorated except for you.
Except. For me, the people who are doing
it are doing it right. I'm not doing it right.
And I was like, no, just every day is different.
Also learning that was yeah, which we talked about before was

(01:02:01):
like every day is different. That's also the self knowing,
like knowing what you need no matter how you wake up.
If you wake up with a pep in your step, great, lucky you.
Hit it you're doing. It if you wake up without a pep
in your step, which is me the vast majority of the time, I
know that I need to have a certain kind of morning.
I need to have AI need to have even if it's 15 minutes to
myself before I speak to anotherperson, before I address a

(01:02:25):
child's need, I need it to be dark.
I need to get up. I need to make my tea.
Going outside is so helpful. Breathing fresh air is so.
Helpful. No, it's just so cold outside.
It's really fun and cold becauseI mean, they say that, that,
that, that scene sunlight, even if wait, did you and I have this
conversation about like light exposure?

(01:02:46):
Maybe, maybe I don't know. Who knows If it's if it's light
outside, like if the sun is shining, you can be in it for 5
minutes. If it's cloudy outside and
there's a, it's like a 5/10/15 rule and I can't remember.
Oh no, I think I learned it froma Mel Robbins.
Come on, Mel. Episode that I listen to because

(01:03:08):
I was trying to like work on that because I did notice a
difference. Summertime's so easy.
You just step out and you're like, so easy, you know?
Also, like, you wake up in the morning here in the summer and
like, sun is bright, birds are chirping.
It's like a Disney morning you talk about.
Yeah, a Pep and yourself to myself.
That's when you turn on all the peppy music.
Yeah, I will say that going backto tools, yeah, if you, if I'm

(01:03:30):
in a dark place, Yep. You turn on some freaking
Beyoncé and you just shake it out.
Yep, the shake it out method. Yeah, and you Just Dance.
Dance your tits off Dance. Your tits off.
There's our first shirt. Dance your tits.
Off dance your tits off which the last thing I want to do is
do that, but I know it's going to change the trajectory.

(01:03:52):
Of my day, yeah. That's how you positively
manipulate your outcomes for yourself.
That's why music was made, yeah,was to change on a cellular
level of who we are. There are moments when I'm like
deep in it and I all I want to do is like listen to Moody, like
sad, Moody music, like, Oh my God, when I am feeling it and I

(01:04:14):
put on gravity, Sara Bareilles gravity and I'm like, like, I
feel it so hard. And then I'm like, OK, babe, OK,
you felt it great. Like now we got to flip it.
Now we got to like you, you use you use the music as tools,
right, to feel your feelings andthen to help yourself get to the
next place. Because otherwise, what am I
going to do? Sit there and be like Kimberly.
It's time to you'd be. Happy now and also embracing

(01:04:35):
tears. Yes, get them out because I get
them. Out I read this study where
tears are actually directly connected to our nervous system.
It is literally your nervous system releasing.
Releasing because it's so pent up.
And I mean, we've all been therewhen we have like a really good
cry and man, we've just we're like a reborn person after we
have the good cry. Let's acknowledge that.

(01:04:58):
Yeah, let that be a tool. It is a tool.
That's why I was like tonight. I mean, she's about to start a
period, you know, so she's already in her fields.
But like, I was, I was like, that's why I wanted to watch
that movie because I was like, Ithink I need a good cry because
I'm about to go into a really stressful week of opening a show
and not having my full tools with me is very, very stressful.

(01:05:21):
And so I was like, I think I need to have some pent up
shenanigans. Yeah, you gotta burst that
bubble, you. Just gotta let it go and not
being ashamed of that, Yes, not putting guilt to it.
Not deciding that it's negative.Not deciding that it's bad, it's
excellent. Cry in.
Front of your children for God. 'S sake.
Oh my God, let them feel the tears.

(01:05:44):
There will be a whole nother podcast because I love your
opinion on how to get my eldest to feel feelings because he has
big feelings. He's got big O feels, he's got
the biggest of feels, but he's is actively trying to suppress
them. Is it?
God, I feel like we're about to open a whole new.
I know. I know, I know.
Just put it in our thing, OK? Because I immediately I'm like,

(01:06:05):
who told him to do that well. Yeah, it's a whole.
It's a whole nother. I'm just going to put put.
A pan on it. Put a pan on it, Put a pan on
it. But you have to get the feels
out. Get them the fuck out.
This is what Nick and I talk about all the time.
I mean, I remember we had been dating for, I don't even know.
We had been dating for maybe a couple of months and we were

(01:06:29):
like out on his back patio one night, just like standing
outside hanging out smoking a joint.
And, you know, and he just, like, ever so casually is like,
yeah, so when I was 11, my dad tried to kill himself, but I'm
fine now. And I remember laughing in his
face and being like, what do youmean you're fine now?

(01:06:54):
Nobody's ever fine from that. Like, what do you mean you're
fine now? And now here we are 10 years
later, where he's, like, dissecting why for so long he's
suppressed everything that he felt because of it, because he
grew up in a Catholic environment.
He's a boy, he's a boy, he's a bully.

(01:07:14):
He grew up in a very hardened part of the country where having
any kind of soft feelings automatically makes you.
Feminine. Feminine and also makes you less
than just like in a family, in like a familiar perspective,

(01:07:37):
familial perspective. I mean, just like there's so
many layers to it. So, so many layers to it.
And so even now as a grown ass man with children, he's like,
oh, how do I feel my feelings? Yeah.
And like, thank God, but also like we got to get Finny out.
We got to keep him high and tight.

(01:07:59):
I was excited when he was born and had big feelings.
It, I mean, yet again, that's a whole nother thing, because I
know, well, Pat and I, we know that the family has, I mean,
we've had conversations where it's like, you know, Finn's just
he's, he's sensitive. Yeah, fuck yeah he is.

(01:08:23):
And also like, so is everyone. I was supposed to say, So are
you guys? Yeah.
You're just suppressing it. Yeah, you just have.
Stuffed it down for so long. I mean, I posted that.
I posted that on my stories. Literally I think it was
yesterday. It might still even be there
where it was like, you know, just two statements, one over,
over the other and it was like you're too sensitive was one of

(01:08:45):
them. And then underneath it was like,
no, you're just emotionally intelligent.
Yeah, I think the most dangerousperson is a person who does not
allow themselves to feel. That's called a sociopath.
Yeah, those people exist. Ted Bundy.
Yeah, not great, not not great doesn't usually lead to
happiness. Girlfriend usually give you much

(01:09:07):
back. But it's wild what a common
trauma response it is. Yeah.
I mean, Pat deals with that still.
Yeah, yeah. But but he and I have, I mean,
we've, we've done a lot of chatting and now that he does
physical movement, like works out, he has noticed when he
doesn't like how it internally effects him, right.

(01:09:29):
When you take away movement, ourbodies are meant to move.
So let's even if it is like, I'mgoing to go for a walk.
But yes, men specifically have been told not to have a tool
bag. Right.
Yeah, because even if your bag is be hard.
Be a tool bag you. Are your tool bag is you're the
fucking tool? Bag you're the tool bag and

(01:09:50):
don't be a tool bag. And so like have a tool bag,
have a tool bag, don't be 1. And so like just retraining has
been a long hard Rd., but it's important.
And it's so important and how amazing for our kids that they
get to do significantly less retraining later on in life

(01:10:11):
because now they get to be an environment where they're
allowed to feel all of their feelings.
And, and also like the separation between what it means
to feel your feelings versus what it means to act on your
feelings. Those two things should always
be separate from one another, but the more especially, I don't
want to say it's exclusive to boys because I have a deeply

(01:10:32):
feeling deeply rageful female child.
The more you shut off those feelings so that they can't feel
them, the more they act on them because they can't feel them
fully. And then like then you have the
asshole kids. Sorry to say it, but it's true
and it's not their fault. Well, I think there's another

(01:10:53):
layer to that is this idea of gentle parenting and passive
parenting, right. And especially with girls,
right. You don't want to like you're
trying to build up a girl who isfeeling, who is taking up space.
Yeah, especially as a females who have been told to take up

(01:11:15):
less space. Be less.
Be less and you're trying to teach this young girl to take up
more space and be OK with that and not shy away from it.
But there I feel like there are some like social norms that are
like, hey, maybe don't, but how do you like where's the balance
of teaching children? Because even I mean, it doesn't

(01:11:38):
matter. It's not specific to gender to
take up space. But also don't be a Dick.
You know, like. I mean, Rosin and I were just
having this conversation not that long ago because, you know,
we are a very commutative familyat all times.
And she struggles socially because her friends don't
communicate in the way that she does.
She sees a problem and she's like, let's talk about it.

(01:11:59):
And they're like, what are you talking about?
Why would we talk about it? Right.
So she struggles with that a lot, but she's like, my friends
always talk about how angry I am.
And I didn't realize until untilrecently that like, yeah, I'm
kind of angry. And I was like, tell, tell me,
tell me what? Let me.
Get my tea for this. Tell me more about that.
And she just wanted to talk about how, like, she doesn't
suppress her feelings and she vocalizes her feelings so that

(01:12:21):
she doesn't act on them. And socially, there are, quote
UN quote consequences to that, right, to being vocal about how
you feel all the time. And the conversation we had was
I was like, well, are you OK with the fact that that's
people's judgement about you? And she was like, yeah, I don't
care. And that's The thing is like,
you have to let them, right? You have to understand, no

(01:12:42):
matter what you do, there will be a judgement, there will be a
perception, there will be a, a misconception, there will be
something will get misconstrued because you're dealing with
outside elements. Every human on this planet is an
outside element. So like, I just appreciated her
response so much because she waslike, I'm, I'm not going to not

(01:13:04):
feel my feelings because it makes other people
uncomfortable. And if they want to have a
conversation about it, if they want to understand what I'm
feeling, if they want to understand where my head's at, I
will happily have that conversation.
But if they just want to stand on the outside and judge me for
being loud about my feelings, that's not my problem.
And I was like. Why wasn't I like that when I

(01:13:25):
was 15? Yeah, I mean, and that's The
thing is like everyone. Why am I not like that when I
was fucking 20? I mean, like, that is such a
big, incredibly real thing. And for and for where she is
socially, I mean, she's a freshman in high school.
For where she is socially, it's probably going to have more

(01:13:47):
consequences. Than it's going to kick her in
the chin a lot. Yeah, it's going to be in a
social setting. It's.
Going to have more consequences than not, but for her to to be
so rooted in who she is that sheis always willing to be true to
herself above what others think of.
Her I mean, I mean, I literally I literally this is the podcast

(01:14:07):
I was going to send you. It's called let them and it's
it's a whole movement at this moment.
Right now. People are like getting it
tattooed on their bodies and allthe things.
I actually have a student who had a tattooed on her body
because of like the people pleasing and the kowtowing and
the bending over backwards for other people to appease other

(01:14:27):
people. And it's like as long as you are
authentic to yourself and you'renot a Dick about it, right?
Like we all have to be human beings that aren't rude.
Don't be a Dick to others. Don't be a Dick to others, but
like, your happiness is going tolook different than everybody
else's happiness, right? Right.
Your nervous system needs different things to bring it

(01:14:49):
back than everybody else's. So let them.
Yeah. Let let them sit outside and
judge you. Yeah.
And then you get to have the opportunity to make those
decisions, right? To see them, to let them live
their lives. And then you get the decision to
be like, do I want that in my life?

(01:15:12):
Because you can't change anybody, right?
You cannot change. You can help.
You can try to, you know, coach,But at the end of the day,
they're gonna they're gonna showtheir true colors whether you
like it or not. It's like somebody lying to you
and being like, well, you know, and giving excuses.
It's like, no, that person, let them lie to you.
Yeah, Yep. They're literally showing you

(01:15:34):
your true the true colors of it all.
Yeah, and then you get to make. It's all about.
And then let me right, let me decide.
My boundary has nothing to My boundary requires nothing of
you. You're gonna show me who you are
and then I'm going to make a boundary or not based on that
information. You get to continue to be you.
I'm not going to try to control you.
I'm not going to tell you you'rewrong.

(01:15:55):
I mean, like Jesus, this goes back to so much to like being
women in society, being told we have to look a certain way.
Always wear makeup, make sure you've got a heel on, make sure
you're dressing. I mean, the, the messaging that
we're that we have been getting since the minute we came out of
the womb about how we're meant to present ourselves to be
socially acceptable. Why is anyone else's opinion
about whether or not I wear makeup any of my business?

(01:16:18):
No. None of my business.
I mean the even a step further like this is one that I still
struggle with. But I mean, here I am.
I haven't shaved my legs in two years.
Three years. Yeah, I got lost.
Because like, why do I give a fuck what anybody else thinks
about the hair on my legs? That's none of my business what
anyone else thinks. About Do you like having hair on
your legs? I don't care or you don't care

(01:16:39):
if I'm going to, if I'm going togo to an event, sure.
And I'm going to show a leg. I'm going to shave.
Got you. I'm not at the point yet where
I'm like comfortable having Bigfoot legs and a formal gown.
Under tights. I like the the I I have seen
there. There was a friend of my parents
who had hairy legs and she, I, Iremember this growing up like

(01:17:00):
little Tori saw her in pantyhoseand I was like, oh, that looks
weird. It was just messed up hair.
But I remember it to this day. I had to be, like, 7.
Yeah. Like, I was a little kid.
And I remember looking at her legs being like, that's weird,
what's happening there. That looks different.
That looks different. Yeah.

(01:17:20):
I didn't think anything other than like, maybe she likes
having hair on her legs. Yeah.
You know, I personally don't, but I also don't shave my legs a
lot. Yeah.
But I also don't. Whatever shit if people.
Don't. Right.
Yeah, like if I'm if I'm like wearing a casual summer dress
and we're just like going to lunch, that's you're going to

(01:17:41):
see my hairy ass legs and that is what it's none of my
business. How you?
How you feel about? That anybody has to have an
active thought about the hairy legs of a stranger.
That's do. You know what I say to people
like that who are like, the opinionating or having opinions
on other people's, like bodies? Yeah, I was like, read a book,

(01:18:02):
like, like, read like, distract your brain from even looking.
Sounds like you need to do something it.
Sounds like you need to discoverother things because like why?
Why are we commenting on people's bodies?
Yeah, and why is it anybody's? Why does it make me less
societally acceptable? Who was it?

(01:18:24):
Oh, my God, I can't remember whoit was.
I think it was one of my friendsin New York who who was
commenting about the fact that, like, I'll always wear a red lip
and I'll never shave my armpits.And I'll do both of those things
at the same time. Yes.
And I'm like, yeah, that's who the fuck I am.
Like, yeah, I might put on a redlip with no mascara and no
contour and no bronzer and just have like, my pasty white face
with a bold red lip and some hairy ass armpits.

(01:18:46):
And like, that's just who I am. You're like, I'm feeling myself,
feeling myself. Yeah, you know what I am.
I'm comfortable. I don't have that obnoxious
armpits. Double that.
You either have to shave every single day or else it starts
stabbing you and irritating you all day long.
And like, it does it, it, it hasno actual impact on anybody

(01:19:06):
else's life. I'm not hurting anyone.
I'm not. I'm not.
Getting anybody's way I'm. Not getting anybody's way.
No, it's just some hair. It's just some hair.
Everybody's got it. I mean, not everybody, but.
Societally. Right, you're a woman, so why do
you have hair under your armpit?Here's the shocker.

(01:19:26):
Women actually have body hair. I knew it.
I know knew it. I know that this is like a thing
that we're not supposed to talk about in American Society
because we want all of our womento look like they're thirteen
years old. But women actually have body
hair. Some women have facial hair.
I know, Come on, I'm waiting formy mustache.
Some ladies got the back hairs. You know, I have one in my I

(01:19:49):
have a beauty mark on this hand and the I have very for an
Italian. I this is it.
I don't have any. I know my whole family, my my
brother, my dad, we all look like this.
There's no hair. What you guys are fake Italians?
Wait, I know like literally my my brother and my dad have less
hair probably than I do on theirlegs.

(01:20:11):
And now to be fair, Ross was a cyclist so he had to shave his
leg. Sure.
Yep. But Yep.
But so maybe it just never grew back.
I don't know. But no I just don't think we're
just not hairy people cuz I don't have the normal hair but
I'm like but I had a friend. But you also don't have like
Northern Italian complexions like you guys.
You guys are dark complected. We are complected, complected.

(01:20:35):
Love it, change nothing. Yes, we are.
We're adding it to the dictionary if we can.
If we can put Skippity rizz in the dictionary.
But I had a friend who would shave her arms.
She had hairier arms growing up and she would shave them.
And I remember thinking, becausewe were probably 7:00 and 8:00.

(01:20:55):
Oh, yeah. Oh, and she was shaving her arms
because she was so embarrassed about how.
And I was like, well, that's because kids are assholes too.
Because kids are assholes. Teach your kids not to like, let
that be your real parenting flexis like, I taught my kid not to
be an asshole, a judgy, a hole. I don't think it's that hard.
Have but opinions about other people.

(01:21:15):
Like, have no opinions about other people.
Yeah, do something. Better with your time, your
energy, and that beautiful braininside your head.
Read a book. Read a book.
Read a book. There's lots of books out there.
Meditate, meditate. Listen to a podcast.
Get your nervous system. Yeah, take a hike.
Full circle, but also coming back to the beginning of it all,

(01:21:36):
get your nervous system in check.
Yeah, because something about that is triggering something in
you, right? That is making you feel chaotic
in inside, Therefore you feel compelled to say something.
Yeah, I mean, it's all connected, right?
Like that's how I see it. I'm like, oh, they saw that.
It triggered something in them. They didn't like that.

(01:22:00):
Yeah, they feel out of control and they're compelled to say
something. Yeah.
So let's work it backwards. That's right.
Do the work back. Yeah, guess where it starts?
Reverse engineer. It's a whole ass circle.
Because you are just as important, like your brain, your
heart, your nervousness, all of this is important to get into

(01:22:20):
check. So like then I can do it.
What are we talking about? I'm like, you will feel better.
It's going all the way back to the respect or deathbed.
Yes, the motto in our family. It's like, I would rather feel
calm, cool and collected when I'm there, then see all the
mistakes because I wasn't regulated.
Yeah. And knowing that I can't, I

(01:22:43):
mean, that was a huge parenting thing for Pat and I when we
realized you can't regulate A dysregulated child by
unregulating yourself. Right?
Right. So you have to regulate yourself
first. You have to start there.
It's just like filling up your cup, right?
First, putting your mask on 1st.All of these sayings are real
for a reason. So like, make it real.

(01:23:07):
Because I think there's so much fear too in people.
Like if you look at an Italian with super hairy arms and you're
like, Oh my God, her arms are sohairy.
Like, how is that? Why is that a threat to you?
Because the root of it is something about you would not
feel safe in doing that, right? Because you've decided that
something about you is not enough, that you have to then

(01:23:28):
make it about someone else. You weren't allowed to have a
hairy arm. Yeah, and that is threatening to
you. It's showing a mirror and you
know, being like you weren't allowed to and then so you'll
either feel rage or shame or oneof those negative words and

(01:23:49):
therefore you project your shenanigans onto that person and
that's none your business. That's.
None your business. You know, and the person with
the hairy arms, you just got to let them and say, well, that's
the last time we need to be around each other, friend.
Yeah. If you're that offended, yeah.
If you're that offended by somebody.
'S hair if you take that much. Offense to the hair on my legs.

(01:24:11):
We shouldn't be in each other's lives.
Yeah, it's just not there are. That's OK.
Far bigger fish to fry. Yeah, that's OK that you are
allowing that to happen. Yeah.
Because it's an allowing. Yeah, you know it is because my
hair isn't attacking you like spaghetti like.

(01:24:32):
You know the alien tentacles? The girl on my.
Legs. Can you imagine?
Oh my God, that is an. Actual nightmare.
That's maybe my worst nightmare.Oh my God, I can't Unsee it.
It's a horror movie and I put itin my own brain.
You did. It's beautiful.
Spaghetti legs. God with eyes and they have like

(01:24:53):
little fingers on the ends of them just to grab you with their
little tenderly fingers. I hate that.
I love it. But if my spaghetti.
Spaghetti on my legs. Those are our mugs they're going
to sell. Yeah.
Just spaghetti leg eggs. The the merge is going to be off
the chain, everybody. It's going to be great, yeah.

(01:25:16):
I mean, I think really the root of where are we?
Oh, yeah, I think, I think really the root of all of this.
Yeah. Is come back to it.
You're never too much. And you're always enough.
Come on.