E05 Weepin' and Wheezin': The Chappell Roan Episode

Chappell Roan stirred the pot with her bold take on parenting, and let’s just say- feelings were felt. Including ours. Unfiltered, unapologetic, and a little outrageous (per usual).

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
Hi guys, I'm Tori. I'm Kimberly.
And welcome to it's everything, damn it, I don't.
Know and I never knew. OK, I can't.

(00:24):
That's the breaking point. OK, One day it's OK.
Hi, guys, it's Tori. It's Kimberly and welcome to.
It's nothing, It's nothing, it'snothing.
It's nothing, it's nothing, it'snothing.
It's. Everything OK?

(00:45):
A5678. Hi guys.
It's Tori. It's.
Kimberly. And welcome to.
It's nothing. It's.
Everything. That's our third take because
Tori cannot remember the name ofthe podcast.
Oh. God.
Bless. Fine.
Everything's fine. Everything's fine.

(01:05):
Everything's great. Hey, friends, here, we're here,
we're here, here. We're weeping.
We're slightly. Weeping.
Third time's the charm. Weeping and wheezing.
Weeping and wheezing. There's our bumper sticker.
Oh my goodness. OK, that was good.
That's what we needed. We need it on a Friday.
We need to pick me up a. Little cackle Cackle never hurt

(01:28):
nobody. Oh bless we.
Who are we? Who are we talking about today?
Yeah, I think we got to just dive right in.
I think there's a nice to be talked.
About Yeah, I think we're we're talking about, wait, how do you
say her name? Chapel Run.
We're talking about Chapel. Run the controversy that she has
ignited. Yes, in the world.

(01:49):
And this the eliciting all kindsof strong feelings from all
kinds of different people with such a simple throwaway few
comments. Yeah, I don't think she knew
what what she was. Doing well, of course not,
because she's not a parent so she does she like doesn't have
the context for what she was actually.
Saying what did she say? For those who don't know right

(02:10):
Chaperon, who did Pink Pony Club, if you don't know who she
is, went on a podcast, podcasts,they're coming for us all went
on a podcast and just and I don't know the question that was
asked, though, I just know the. Answer.
I just know, yeah, she said. She maybe it was probably Do you
want to be a mother? Yeah, something about parenting

(02:32):
to. Be fair, I believe Chapel is
early mid 20s. Yeah, she young.
She's young and she so you got and she asked something about a
parenthood and she said essentially that no.
All parents that she knows are in hell are in hell and they're
not happy and they don't have any light in their eyes.

(02:52):
That's that I It was the light in the eyes that got.
Me, I was like, Oh yeah, that rocked my world.
I feel that so deeply. I'm actually not offended by
anything, she said. No at all, because also Tori at
27 would probably say the exact same freaking thing.
Yeah, I'd be like, yeah, it looks really hard.

(03:12):
Yeah, because spoiler alert. It's really hard.
It's really hard, parents, it's really hard.
But I don't I wouldn't compare it to hell.
Well, you. Know I wouldn't know I haven't
been there yet that's. Give me time, come later.
Yeah, and then I'll be later on,but no, I I imagine hell is far

(03:33):
worse than parenting, but for being a human on this planet,
parenting is a very special kindof hell, 100%.
Oh, OK. I think.
I think it's also incredible andone of not one of, I think it's
the most transformative thing that you can do as a human
being, a parent has changed every single piece of who I am.

(03:57):
Every single aspect, every single one that I thought I
knew, yeah, is different becauseof parent.
Oh, you learn. You learn who you are.
I think when you become a parent, I don't think like I
think back to pre pre parent Kimberly.
Yeah, and who she thought she was versus what I have learned
about myself since becoming a parent.

(04:20):
Because you see every single thing that happens in the world
through a different lens. I didn't.
I knew nothing about myself, about the world, about human
interaction. I knew nothing.
I knew absolutely nothing. And now I know so much more.
I mean, parenting felt like the hardest test that there was no
study manual for. Yeah, you know, like every,

(04:41):
every part of it is new. And, and I'm I know there's
books out there. I never read any.
Lots. Of them there's.
Lots of them. There's some of them.
A lot of them are garbage. A lot of them now are very much
garbage. Garbage, if you will.
Yeah, Yeah. But I mean from her, from her

(05:01):
seat of where she's at, like I can understand it looks like
hell. Yeah.
Because you have time and resources and and sleep and all
the things right. But I, I mean, I couldn't agree
more that parenthood on if on foundational level of cellular
level of me changed me and actually birthed in a superhero.

(05:29):
In my in my opinion, I think that that's how I felt anyway.
It was like all the things that I had worked up to until that
point. Like I burst it out when I
birthed my first baby where it was like, Oh this is what
patients feels like. I remember my whole family was
like shocked at how I was shocked at how patient I was

(05:50):
because before kids, I was not patient.
I was. Like you never had a reason to
be. Yeah, I was just like, do it now
and be. Better same.
Like I figured how you figure itout I.
Don't have to have understandingyou got to get better you.
Got to get better, just do it. And so then.
But having a kid who cannot emotionally, like, regulate

(06:11):
themselves, I was like, that's my job is.
But not having to like, I just didn't understand that before.
And so, yeah, everyone in my life was very shocked, including
myself, of how patient I was. And when you have patience, you
have time. And when you have time, you can,
like, see the world from, like afish.

(06:32):
I felt like I could see. I could see like, oh, this is
gonna affect that, which is gonna affect that and how we I
teach them how to do this is gonna affect this in 10 years,
yes. Yeah, having patience literally
slows down time, literally makestime move slower.
Yeah. And and zoom out like I think

(06:53):
about. I mean, to be fair, I had my
first child, was very easy, easygoing, had feelings, but
managed them. She did.
Yeah. Her feelings weren't big.
They are deep, yes, but they were not big on the outside,
right. She she was very agreeable.
She just went where I went. She did what I did.
She was just happy to be alive. It was just easy.

(07:17):
So like, I didn't really have tolearn patience with her.
Yeah. And then which in that time of
your life, 'cause you had her, at what age?
Yeah, 24. Yeah, so you were a baby
yourself. Yeah, right.
I mean like if I had to have a dog in 20.
Four, I might be dead. Do you believe in this idea of

(07:39):
karmic babies? Oh, 100.
Percent I I believe in that deeply.
I also believe that like the andthis is so woo woo, so like,
buckle up everybody. Woo it up, babe.
Here we go is that I believe that the kids choose the
parents. 100%. Right.
That they, that in the universe,in the world, they're like,
these are the lessons I need to learn in this next life.
So I'm going to saddle up to that wackadoo.

(08:01):
And you have like, I have two babies. 1 is my karmic baby and
1 is like my easygoing and my eldest, my first was my karmic
baby where all his all his things that he did were my
triggers. And so I was forced like right
out the gate to learn patients because I was like, yeah, we'll
be dead. We'll be dead.

(08:23):
We did. We'll not survive this.
Yeah, I. Know yeah, it was because he has
very very big feelings and very sensitive, much like his father
yeah. And which is great because it
balance, you know I've met Pat. He was my balance of like, oh,
that's what a kind person. Does you know like kindness?

(08:45):
Cute. That's what compassion looks
like. That's what empathy looks like.
Cute. Cute.
Cute. Cute.
That's what calmness looks like,you know, And and then, yeah, I
had Finn and I was like, oh, I'mlearning patience.
You're my karmic baby. And you're going to be you're
you will push me to grow. Which is yes, it's in its own

(09:07):
form. Waking up to that every day
could be horrible, right? And a version of somebody's
hell. It wasn't.
Yeah, when you don't, When you don't live it yourself, of
course it looks like hell. And it, and it, I mean, I think
about the first, I mean, truly the first three years with dot.
First of all, she was born four months into a pandemic, a

(09:30):
global. Pandemic.
Yeah. So like the pandemic, babies are
unique. That was absolutely bananas.
All day, every day. Even just going through that
pregnancy in a pandemic was wild.
Yeah, that was because you and Iboth were pregnant during the
pandemic. Yeah.
And we were like, hi, I mean just what I mean, that's it's

(09:55):
like something you'll never be able to explain to.
People, I mean, the fear, the fear of having a pregnant, like
having going to a hospital in a pandemic, yeah, where we might
not have our support people 'cause that was when we first
started. Yeah, that was a fear that was
like, you can't have your partner there when you're giving

(10:15):
birth. Yeah, give birth alone.
I had. Friends in New York who The
husband she gave birth at New York Presbyterian The husband
stood on the sidewalk outside the front doors of the hospital
on FaceTime with her while she delivered their baby upstairs

(10:36):
that. Makes me want to cry.
Yeah, because how lonely and howhorrifying.
Horrifying. It's already a scary thing.
You're doing the hardest thing. The hardest thing you'll ever
do? Yes, the hardest thing you'll
ever do. And don't even get me started on
like C sections are the easiest way out.
We'll get false. False.

(10:57):
Very, very false. And we'll do another episode
because you want to talk about asoapbox that Mama can get on.
I will climb up to the. Top yeah, that's your man.
I've risk get up there. Yeah, but.
But to have that, not feel your legs and then to not have
somebody there in the room with you, Yeah, I can't even imagine

(11:18):
that. But.
But honestly, even Finn, who is my like karmic baby, he still
was pretty chill. Like, he was pretty chill.
I thought my second kid was going to be the devil because I
was like, yeah, we had some hills and valleys with him.
But like, it was still OK. Like I didn't.

(11:38):
I didn't see the hardship that Isaw other friends of mine going
through. Yeah, but that also is probably
because my support system was sostrong.
Yeah, you know, but why move to that?
Like I moved out of the city. Yeah, you made a conscious
decision. I made a decision to move to a
family who were to support myself.

(12:03):
I yeah, that was a very like we said when we got married, we're
like, we're never going to move out of here.
We're never going to move back to Kent Gross.
And then got pregnant and was like, Oh, well, also the market,
you know, yeah, can't afford nothing in Seattle, but like.
This is fucking expensive. Yeah.
And so that was one of it. But then we lived like we lived

(12:24):
like 3 minutes from my parents. Because I mean, what a dream it
I think. It but I, I think it saved me as
a human being. It saved me from the the
inducing of hell into my life because I could, you know, my
mother was there and she was so helpful and she like showed up
every day and I didn't have to beg or plead or anything.

(12:45):
And that is a luxury slash privilege.
Yeah, that I'm so grateful I gotto experience because yeah,
having, I mean, the first year or first few years is hard, man.
Horrible. And then to do it in a pandemic
and we had we had a baby who didnot sleep at night, just like
her average wakings in the middle of the night or average

(13:07):
was like 10. And then on top of that, she was
having seizures regularly, very regularly.
And then on top of that, we're in a pandemic.
So we have no help and we're already.
Nowhere to go. Nowhere to go, can't leave we're
4 hours from my closest family and at that point dots having

(13:27):
seizures and the doctors are like don't bring her to the
hospital because like. We're in a pandemic.
Yeah, we're in a pandemic. And also like, you know, the
average ER wait time at Seattle Children's was like 4 to 6
hours. And so they're like, by the time
you bring her here, she's not going to be having a seizure
anymore. There's nothing we can do.
We're just going to tell you to like keep her comfortable and go
then send you home. So like, don't come here.

(13:48):
Like they were actively telling us to stay away.
So we were just managing her seizures at home by ourselves,
just alone all day every day. And then my dad was going
through cancer treatment so we couldn't see them because he had
no immune system. And then also, we were told dot
shouldn't be exposed to anybody because any time we risk her
having a fever, we're risking her seizures getting worse.

(14:09):
We had to regulate her body temperature.
Don't let her be outside in the sun too long.
Don't let her get overheated. Don't let her be too.
And also, like, don't let her get overheated when she's like a
raging baby who's just, like, angry about everything.
And it's just like having screaming fits about all the
things all the time. Like, yeah, OK, you don't let
her get overheated. You, you do it.
You tell me how that works. Yeah, tell me.
Tell every parent who has a raging baby.

(14:31):
So we were like, I mean, like, did not sleep for the first
year. And then on top of that, the
anxiety of having a baby who hasseizures and you don't know why
and you don't know how to managethem.
You're just doing what you're told over the phone because the
doctors are also like, don't bring her in.
I mean, I remember one time we, God, I will never forget this.
It was the first time she had a focal seizure.

(14:52):
So she had three different kindsof seizures.
She most commonly had febrile seizures.
She had a focal seizure, which is where her eyes went like hard
to one side and then they were just like locked in that
position and then that entire, so her eyes went like all the
way right and then just stayed there.
But her eyes, her eyes were likewide open but locked off to the
right. And then the entire right side

(15:12):
of her body stopped working. And I was like, my child is
paralyzed. My child is going to die just
like go like full on. You're not breathing.
Yeah, they're not breathing right.
Now, and we called Seattle Children's and they were like,
well, you can call the fire department like firefighters are
usually like somewhat trained onhow to deal with this.
But it was the same message. It was like, you can come here,

(15:33):
but we can't. There are people that have been
here for half a day, you know, like we're not going to be able
to. So we just so we just did
everything by ourselves. It was off.
It was absolutely hell. And she's right.
And was there light in my eyes? 100% no.
Like not a speck, not a speck oflight in my eyes.

(15:53):
It was. I mean, I remember talking to
you in this not necessarily the darkest of times, because I
think it when you're in the darkest of times, you are.
Oh, I didn't talk to anybody. Yeah, you don't.
I didn't. I didn't.
You're in Ground Zero of battlefields.
Yeah, you know I did not. Leave my 4 walls, physically,
socially, emotionally, anything.And you're talking about, I
mean, thank God you did have a partner at that time.

(16:15):
Yeah. Right.
Because you've also Experienced Parenthood where you didn't
yeah. And so like God, anytime I have
to like solo parent, I just think about all those solo
parent out there out there and I'm like, you guys deserve a
billion dollars. Yes, you guys deserve whatever
you want, honestly, because I have to do it for like, you

(16:37):
know, a week maybe. And I'm.
And I get again, I still have like support that I lean on
because they're there and they want to.
But like, I God bless. That's that's scary.
Yeah. So that is a that's a version of
hell. It is.
It is a version of hell, which is why I'm like, I'm not
offended by what she said. No, parenting is.

(16:58):
And I have had two very different parenting experiences.
Neither of them were easy. I had an easy child and a really
toxic home life, which made it really hard.
Yeah. And then I had a really hard
child and I can't even say our home life was balanced because
of how hard everything was pandemic, you know, baby having

(17:18):
seizures. Like there was no, it just was.
If I had had to do that alone, But would I live to tell the
tale? I don't think so.
I mean, so like, yes, it's hell.It there are moments where it's
hell. And that's the dichotomy of
parenting, right? It's hell you you find like the
deepest, darkest corners of yourself that you didn't know

(17:40):
existed. And then and they will come up
like your child will do one thing to trigger that demon from
like down in the depths of somewhere.
And you in real time are like, oh, hello, part of Kimberly that
I didn't know exist until right now.
Nice to meet you. Also, you can't be here right
now. We're going to have to deal with
you later because you have no business being in this dynamic

(18:01):
right now between myself and my child.
Like they really do have a special way of pulling out the
demons. So you do, you have it, it, it
can't, it can be so hard. And the, the flip side of that
too, is that just like there is no way to explain to somebody
who doesn't have children how unbelievably I don't feel like

(18:23):
there is a word that we have in the English language that
accurately represents it fulfilling to me sounds like
trite in comparison or like, I, I mean, I can't think of a word.
It is, it is the most like a whole whole.
It, it makes me more whole than anything else I've ever done.

(18:46):
I feel more complete as a person.
My soul feels more complete now that I have children in a way
that like even saying that out loud I'm like, that doesn't
quite mean what I'm trying to say, but I don't.
Even well, and even if you hear that as somebody who doesn't
have kids, it will not. Affect you no, because you're
like I feel fine yeah right my soul feels fine my.

(19:08):
Soul feels fine. I'm feeling good.
But but yeah, it's it you you. It's like you birth a new
version of yourself. That's what the placenta is.
It's actually your your new self.
This is something. But I mean, there's also people
out there to give a different. And I've met a few of their

(19:30):
women, so mothers who don't havethis kind of, like, crazy
connection with their kids. Yeah.
You know, And I think that's OK too, right, Knowing that
parenthood looks so different onevery single person and you
don't know what kind of person that's going to be until you

(19:50):
have a baby. It's real, A roll of the dice.
It really, you know, it is like full high stakes game.
That's why it's not for everyone.
Yes. And that is, oh, really OK.
I love man. I know some women out there are
like, I'm never having a kid andI'm like, I support you
wholeheartedly. One, we don't need more people.

(20:14):
Two, I love people living in their truth and their power.
Yes, and like how incredible to know that so definitively
without a doubt instead of and obviously this is a very small
population. I'm but like the people that
have children and then regret it.
Yeah. I have one friend who I love

(20:34):
dearly who after her first childshe was like man, I don't know
if this is for me. And then she ended up having a
second child. And after her second child, she
was like, can confirm. It's I don't want to be a
parent. And she's still like, she stood
herself up by the bootstraps. And she's like, this is the
choice I made. And this is the commitment that
I made to these two people who didn't choose to be here.

(20:55):
So I'm going to follow through on my commitment.
But she's like, I don't love anything about this.
And if I could go back and do itall over again, I wouldn't.
And she loves her kids deeply. Well, yeah, two things can be
true at one time. Yeah, right.
You can. You can love somebody and still
not love the process of it. Yeah, right.
And I mean, that's a normal theme.

(21:16):
It feels like in my life, like two things can be true at one
time. I can love something and still
really not like the process. Yeah.
And and I think it ebbs and flows too.
I mean, man, it's, it's a layered, it's so it's a real
prophet, you know? But that, that we talk about
this a lot in, in the maternal health world about the maternal

(21:38):
identity, the, the parental identity, the identity shift
that you have when you give birth.
That one, nobody prepares you for No2.
Nobody talks about No 3, nobody helps you through it.
No, you literally birth a human and then birth a whole new
version of yourself that you don't know.
And then you have to figure out how to get to know her.
And then you have to figure out what she needs and what, what's

(21:59):
gonna support her and make her feel whole.
And it's a whole different set of demands then the non
parenting version of you. So you have to learn all of that
and nurture her and make sure that she's taken care of.
And then also learn this brand new human who can't communicate
with you. Nurture them, make sure they're
taken care of, they're fed, they're clean, they stay alive
on a daily basis. Just like minor low stakes

(22:22):
responsibilities. Yeah.
And and doing those two things simultaneously is a total mind
fuck, especially when you are only prepared for one of them.
And I can't even say prepared because like, nobody's really
prepared to be a parent. Doesn't matter how many books
you read, it happens and then you have to.
Meet the kid. Yes, you have.
To meet the kid. And I think that's the the other
part that they don't tell you about.

(22:42):
They're like, oh, you're going to have this baby and this is
how breastfeeding is going to work.
And this is what you're going tofeed the baby.
And this is the diapers you're going to put them in.
If you want to put them in thosediapers, there's other diapers
also and formula. And is it good?
Is it bad? Is it well, I mean, that's
that's like parenting in Americais based on consumption.
Here's what you can consume to be a better parent.
Here's the product that you can buy.
Have the best car seat, have thebest formula.

(23:03):
Make sure your formula doesn't have GMOs.
Make sure your formula is all organic.
Make sure that your your crib was constructed with wood that
came straight from the rainforest and hasn't been
treated with pesticides. Right.
Like there's like so many thingsfrom a consumer perspective that
we are like shoving down parentsthroat.
If you're mongering. But talking about getting to
know the child so that you can like create a dynamic that

(23:27):
works, I mean it's just not talked about.
It's not talked about because I,yeah, I wish that had been
talked about because my mom actually told me, told me about
it. She's like, you can decide that
now. But like, you also have to
figure out what's going to work.Like, you have to meet the baby.
Yeah. You know, and because the baby's
going to have opinions about what they like and what they
don't like and all that. And I will say, like, the harder

(23:50):
I tried to force things and because of, like, this idea that
I had, it's like a birth plan, right?
It was like I had an idea of what I wanted it to look like.
And then the harder I tried to hold on and grasp onto that
vision, the harder fucking life got.
I was just like the And so I remember like at one point in
the first year of Finn's life, Iwas just like, I'm going to stop

(24:13):
trying that. Like I'm just going to like let
go and like, let's see what happens.
Make the best decision in the moment.
And man, when I decided that it was like, God bless.
And the idea that other that youbrought up of the mother's
identity, woof. I think that was harder for me
than trying to parent a child because I was so firm in who I

(24:37):
thought I was. And then the mothers around me
when I first had my my baby, we're not they, their identity
did not match my identity. Like they were like, we're
climbing mountains all day, every day.
We're strapping babies to our backs.
We don't care. We're going to the top of the
mountain. We are, you know, and I was just

(24:59):
like, I just want to stay home. Yeah, you know, like I just.
And then I felt bad because I wasn't doing what I saw other
mothers doing. So I had to like.
So I sat at home with my baby and listened to, you know,
waitress and just ugly cried on at me, you know, like that's.
That is what I did. For probably the first six
months and judging myself because I wasn't willing to, I

(25:19):
was scared. I was like, everything was so
scary. I never wanted to like try new
things. Yeah, everything is so scary.
And you were also, by the way, recovering from one just like, I
don't know, transforming as a person, minor details to
transforming from being pregnantfor nine months, which is a
massive transition from your body to go from being pregnant

(25:42):
to not being pregnant. Hormonal transitions,
physiological transitions, the things that are happening on a
cellular level, the regenerationthat's happening in your body.
I mean, it's massive. And then on top of that, you are
recovering from a major surgery.And oh, by the way, if you get a
joint replaced, you get sent home, you're told to rest Well
now, I mean, knees and hips, they're like, go walk around the

(26:04):
block. It's so it, it affects you so
insignificantly. But like if you have a, a major
surgery on one of your organs, they're like bed rest for six
weeks or six months, right? Like don't lift heavy things.
Don't do XY and Z. Make sure that you're like doing
all these things to help your your body recover.
You're going to physical therapy, you're seeing your
providers. None of that happens in

(26:25):
postpartum. None of that happens.
You had a major surgery. And they cut through all the
things. They cut through all the things
and they sent you home and they said good luck, babe.
Yeah, I remember my six week. I remember talking to you about
it because you were pretty as enraged as I was where I went
into my six week, you know, postcheckup and she literally no,

(26:49):
no, this is the second one. The first one was OK, but the
the second one she literally like just moved my belly around.
She's like, you're good. And I was like and knowing
better because I had had a good one that the my experience the
first time was great. Second, I was like, no.
You sure about? That you sure that I'm OK like

(27:10):
you, you're just like, yeah, getout there.
The lack of knowledge that they give women who've just had a
baby is astounding and offensive.
Like I'm like, you don't give you didn't.
Oh, man. I mean, the only time that Finn
would be calm is if I was bouncing on a ball on the yoga
ball. On the yoga ball is the only

(27:31):
time he would calm down. And so I have AC section not
healed scar. I thought I popped a stitch like
called the doctor and I was like, I'm probably dying.
Get me in. And he was like, OK.
And so I went into my doctor thenext day to only go urgent care
because like I couldn't get in with my doctor and I was like, I
swear to God, something popped. And I was, you know, it's not, I

(27:54):
don't even know what it was. But he was like, let me tell
you, I've been doing this a longtime and never have I seen that
ever happened. I was like, cool, bro, but I
felt something popped in my stitched open wound while I was
bouncing my baby. So could you give it a gander?

(28:15):
Thanks. Yeah, I mean, the medical
gaslighting that happens in maternal health is astonishing.
Astonishing the way that they just are Like, don't listen to
your body, don't listen to yourself, don't trust your
intuition. Everything's fine.
Don't be hysterical. You're being hysterical.
Don't be. Hysterical.
Like probably. Let me.

(28:37):
Oh yeah, she's just having feelings too.
Yeah. Mad, Yeah, but.
You're a boy, dog. We are all so pissed.
OK. But yeah, it was what a time.
So I mean, really long story, long story long.
Yeah, yes. And chaperone.
Yeah, yeah, I don't. I, I, I refuse for a single

(29:03):
moment to pretend like parentingis butterflies and rainbows.
It is not. It is really, really, really
hard. And the amount that it because
it changes the way it changes the lens through which you see
everything, everything you, you connect impact of every single
thing you do back to your child.If I choose to go to the grocery

(29:28):
store right now, what's that going to do to the rest of my
day? It's going to push back the
other tasks that I have, which is then going to push back
dinner, which is then going to push back bedtime.
And I can't do that. And so I can't go to the grocery
store right now because it's going to have a negative impact
on my child mental six hours from now mental load, right?
Like it changes literally every single thing.
But there's also like so much power in that.

(29:49):
I mean, the You and You and Hannah's yoga retreat.
If I had gone on that retreat asa childless person, I would have
had an amazing time. I'm sure it would have been
transformative in different ways.
But But the lens through which Isaw that and then also, like,
how seriously I took it for myself, how hard I made

(30:11):
boundaries around that experience for myself.
Like, this is my week out of thehouse away from kids,
reconnecting to myself. Yeah.
And then the amount of time thatI spent with myself.
Yeah, was so much more valuable than than the experience that I
to me than the experience that Iwould have had if I had gone
there as a childless person. When I think about when I went

(30:32):
to Mexico when I was a childlessperson or when I Right, like
when you go to a beach, yeah, and have some margaritas and do
some yoga. When you don't have kids, it's
like. There's another day.
It's just. Another, it's just another day
Tuesday. It's fine, but like the the
intention that I went with and then what I was able to give

(30:53):
myself because of that intentionand then also like how that
contributed to who I am. Like it like going on that
retreat fundamentally changed meas a person because I was able
to commit 7 entire days strictlyto me, without distraction,

(31:14):
without social media. You got to pack a bag just for
one person. Oh my God.
The first time I I got to do that I was like this feels
weird. Like like you forgot something
or like you're getting away withsomething.
Yes, yeah. Like I was like, wait, I can
only pack one thing. I don't have to schedule.
I don't have that mental load ofhow this decision is going to

(31:36):
affect the rest of the day or mypartner.
Yeah. Getting on a plane and not
having to think about navigatingfrom point A to point B.
You can just get up and leave whenever you want, yeah.
You want to take a taxi instead of taking the shuttle?
Who cares? Yeah.
Great. Whatever.
Yeah, reclaiming that, that sense of freedom every once in

(31:59):
awhile is, is pretty life giving, I will say.
For sure, but it also. But you wouldn't have that if
you hadn't had the other side ofthe coin, right?
The other side of the coin of like I got to schlep 17 other
things so that just in case these things happen, I am ready
and prepared because let me tellyou, I've been caught unawares.
The just in Casey. 'S the just in?

(32:19):
Casey's all of the just in Casey's when you're traveling
with children. The extra bags, the extra the
extra accessories, the extra tools.
Or how about the time that I went to both my children are
potty trained and a soybean had not been on a plane in his,
like, current state, didn't knowthey had potties.

(32:41):
I don't have a fucking diaper. Yeah.
Oh, but he pooped himself, let me tell you.
And I was like, no, I was like, he just.
Didn't know that he could ask togo to the bathroom.
He didn't like, he had no idea. And he was like, tummy was
really hurting. And we were like, oh, maybe, you
know, it's first time like plane.
Yeah. I was like, man, nothing stinks
die of heaven. I was like somebody change your

(33:02):
fucking baby. Like I was like, good God, you
guys like who is it? And it was us the.
Whole time and then the whole time.
It was I will Pat. I was, I was like, it was Pat
Sawyer me and I was like, and hehad fallen asleep and I was like
Pat Pat. I think he shit himself.
He was like no, no. And I was like, I think he did.

(33:25):
And then Pat's like we like lifted his cheek and that you
could see like the outline on his underwear of.
And then of course, I like, I'm starting to get up to like do I
was like, I don't have a diaper bag.
We're past diapers. Yeah, we, don't we.
Don't slip anymore. We're not schlepping.
We had graduated. I thought, yeah, ha, ha, joke's
on me. And then to make it worse, I'm

(33:47):
about to, like, get up into the thing into my bag.
So I have to, like, pull down mywhole bag to get his clothes
out. Yeah, and they're like seat belt
side on we're about to land and the the lavatories are locked.
And I was like, Oh no, we all just get to sit here in this
kids shit and then I have to getinto.

(34:08):
A bad people around you and I. Was like, sorry, sorry,
everybody, sorry. That's not, it's not, it's the
big guy. It's not the little guy, it's
the big guy. You know, I was just like, so.
And then, you know, Pat was ragey at me because, like, I
didn't move fast enough. And I was like, I'm new here.
Like, we're past this, I thought.
And so, yeah, then we had to go to, like, find a bathroom in the
airport. I've never been in.

(34:29):
Oh, my God. And.
While you're just like carrying a baby whose pants are full of
shit. I imagine you didn't make him
walk off the plane with an underwear.
Full of boots? Hell yes I did.
I said, babe, you did it. Let's go.
How? Did he walk?
How did he waddle? I mean, he was like he Ronald,
he got it. He was fine.
But but also I was like, OK, if I pick him up, this is this is

(34:52):
also the mental load. If I pick him up, I'm going to
have shit all over my. Kids all over you and then also
you're going to be like smashingit.
Into and we're going to a hotel where there's no laundry so now
we're just going to have shit stained clothes for a week.
Neat. So no, yeah, I made that 4 year
old walk off by himself. I was like, come on, babe.

(35:13):
Walk it off. Bud And then, yeah, I had to go
to a bathroom, had to strip him down, wash him essentially in
the sink. Put his giant he's a large 4
year old. Put his giant 4 year old butt up
in that bathroom seat. Poor little nugget.
And luckily here's Pat saves theday.
Pat always does because he's still in, like, little kid mode
sometimes. Yeah.
And which is actually helpful because he had like wet wipes

(35:35):
with him. Nice where you go, Patty, 'cause
I was like, I'll. Find wet lives.
And he was like, I do. And I was like, Oh my God, I'm
so in love with you, right? Now, how'd you do that?
You're so smart. You're so and like Tori before
I'd be like Pat. Yeah.
Why are you over? Packing.
Yeah, wait, we don't need that anymore.
For this, that was A and I said,hey, sorry.
So when we flew home, I was like, babe, they've got a potty

(35:58):
on the plane and he you should have seen his face.
He was like, oh, but he didn't want to tell us.
He pooped in his sleep like it was weird.
It was such a weird time. Like he fell asleep and then his
body relaxed enough. Yeah, he.
He just reverted to like babies who poop in their.
Sleep I guess, or maybe the air pressure just pushes out but
like I was like. He just was like, we're in a

(36:19):
moving vehicle. Obviously there are no bathrooms
because moving vehicles don't have potties.
So like this is just where we. Are I think we'd also said like,
you know, let's go potty now before we get on the plane
because there's there's not going to be a potty.
I think we'd said that. Oh no, Because we were like.
To try to get him to like. Preemptively.
And so, yeah. Man, that's like a whole other
the lies we tell our children toget them to do the things we

(36:41):
want them to do. Nothing will make you a liar
like having children. Also that.
Unless you're a sociopath and then you're just.
A liar because you're a sociopath because you're evil.
Yeah. The lies.
So many lies. Yeah, that was so it's I, you
know. The amount of times that the
grocery store has run out of something very basic.

(37:01):
Sorry, babe, they're out. They didn't have any.
Sorry, I looked for it. I did like I really try.
I really looked for it. They just didn't.
I was they were all sold out. Sorry about it.
Yeah, it's, you know. I mean, I will say you, you
really do learn how to choose the path of least resistance

(37:21):
when you're a parent. Yeah.
And also reflecting back on on my pre parenting years, I'm like
God I expended so much energy fighting battles that yielded me
nothing. Why?
Why 'cause I had nothing better to do.
I didn't have children ruining my.
Life. But I mean, even even in
parenting you sometimes you choose the harder way because

(37:44):
that's how it's been done when it's like.
But it doesn't have to be done that way.
Yeah, or when you're trying to unlearn and reteach yourself new
patterns and new approaches, youintentionally choose the harder
way rather than defaulting to the way that you always knew.
And that. But there's also, like,

(38:07):
something so powerful and magical about that.
Like dot, My, my, my deeply feeling child who feels all her
feels on the outside. Roslyn is deeply feeling and
feels everything on the inside. And then suddenly you're like,
hey, where are you? Like, you just shut down hard.
What's going on? And Dot's like the minute she
feels it, we're all going to feel it.
Like we're all going to suffer because she's feeling literally

(38:30):
anything. And the other night at dinner,
she just couldn't, couldn't regulate.
And it was like from the moment we got home from school, I don't
know if something happened at school or if her nap got messed
up or, you know, I don't know. She still naps.
They so she's in pre-K and they have nap time and I just learned
what we were told is that they have the choice to either sleep

(38:53):
or do a quiet activity like color or read a book.
What I recently found out was everyone is required to lay down
and close their eyes. And then after a certain amount
of time, if you're not asleep, then you can get up and do
activities. And so she'll lay down and try
to close her eyes, but she's nottired.
So she tosses and turns and she gets pissed whenever, but
sometimes she falls asleep and sometimes she comes home and is

(39:15):
angry and yelling about the factthat they made her lay down.
So, you know, something happenedat school to where when she came
home, she was like really like excessively decompressing.
And so like everything was a battle.
It was a battle to have the after school snack.
It was a battle to we like on days like that where she comes

(39:36):
home just in rage, we're like, great, you're going to sit on
the couch, you're going to watchBluey.
We're going to just like zone out.
We're going to zone it. We're going to decompress.
Because if we try to get her into something like building
with magnet tiles, she just getsfull rage and we'll like throw
things. And it's just so we're like, we
have to do the thing that keeps her body still.
So we're like, cool, let's go watch some Bluey.

(39:57):
That was a fight. Everything was a fight.
Going potty, washing her hands for dinner.
Everything was a fight. We get to dinner, everything's
fine for the first few bites, and then she decides she's
pissed about something. She gets up, she leaves the
table. She's screaming.
She's like rage, screaming at both of us, like screaming so
hard that she's losing her voice.
Oh no. And I immediately she's.
Unregulated, she's. So unregulated and Nick and I

(40:19):
both were like what the what is happening on and so I had this
moment where like my knee jerk, I it was like I felt it coming
from this is such a weird analogy, but it was like I felt
it coming from my spine like this, this like impulse to
respond in the way that I was responded to as a child and.

(40:43):
I. I felt like there was this like
gremlin that was trying to like hatch out of the back of me and
be like. You can't be here that way, you
can't talk to me that way, and Inot your back gremlin my.
Back Gremlin was trying to come out and I was like no bitch.
Stay in there, Stacy. Get out.
You don't. Get Stacy, get back inside my
spine. Get out there.
Spiny Stacy. Spiny.

(41:04):
Stacy and, but and the harder thing, the much harder thing was
for me to just like take a beat and not lose my shit at my 4
year old who was already losing her shit.
Where like if I had as a four year old, if I had gotten up
from the table full stop, full stop, nothing else happening, it
would have been like, what do you think you're doing?
Obviously, yes, don't disrespectyour mother.

(41:25):
More traditional environments, right?
Like I think a lot of us probably grew up that way.
Like you sit down at the dinner table, you stay there until your
plate's empty and then you ask for permission to leave the
table. And right.
So I'm like, OK, we're not goingto get ragey because she's
leaving the table. She's leaving the table because
she's listening to her body. I'm going to navigate this a
different way. So I like get up and I follow
her into the kitchen where she is and she's just like pissed

(41:47):
and on the floor and screaming and clearly needs Co regulation
but can't accept it and so then she's more mad that I'm there
and she's like don't. Look at me, don't touch me.
And then like gets up and takes her rage over into the living
room. So she's just like retreating
and retreating and retreating and then is just, I mean,
screaming and I hate you, right.Like the, the, the what was,

(42:11):
what did you call something about four year olds we were
talking about? This in the Oh fuck you fours.
Fuck you fours. Yeah, the fuck you fours were
like loud and proud in that. Moment they were present.
And I was like, as I'm trying tolike bring my energy down, the
more I'm trying to bring my energy down, the more she's
escalating. The more she escalates, the more
I feel like I'm about to jump out of my skin because I'm like,
trying so. Hard to.

(42:32):
Keep Stacey inside, Stacey. We don't need you, babe.
Sorry, Stacey's of the world. I don't know why you've been.
Because she's Stacey. Yeah, Stacey.
The spine grip. So that to me was the way harder
thing was for me to not lose my shit and be like you.
Can't talk to her that way. Right and like meet her energy

(42:53):
with equal energy, which is never ever in a heightened
situation the productive. Way I mean that changed our
parenting when we said you can'tde escalate an escalated child
by escalating yourself yeah and that was a game changer for us
as parents yeah but it's. All I knew right?
Like I would escalate and then my.
Parents would escalate. Yeah, I'll meet you where you're
at. Yeah.
You're going to yell. Watch how much I can.

(43:14):
I will overpower you how loud I can yell.
Yeah, Yeah. And but so now having to, like,
retrain myself in the moment, inthe moment, retraining myself in
the moment while also trying to regulate her in the moment while
also trying to problem solve in the moment.
While also simultaneously being like, I have to get her back to
the table to get food in her body so I can get her in the
bath so I can get her to bed. Because if she doesn't fall
asleep by 7:30, she's not asleepuntil 9:00.

(43:36):
And then everything's ruined tomorrow, Right?
Like, it's like the cascade. There is the hell.
There is the hell. Rowan was talking about.
It's that right there, Yeah. But then also like what an
amazing gift that we are giving ourselves by being able to do
that hard work to juggle all of that shit in the moment to then
be able to show up differently for her, which is making me show
up differently for myself and for everyone else.

(43:58):
It's making me show up differently for Nick.
It's making me show up differently at work when I get
annoyed by stupid things. And I'm like, you're smarter
than this. Why did you do that?
Like, I don't understand. But it allows me to like change
how I see everything, which changes how I respond to
everything. And it's a gift that I don't
want to say I wouldn't otherwisehave if I didn't have children.

(44:19):
You might have gotten there eventually, but from a
different, in a different way. Yeah, probably a lot like taking
a lot longer. Yeah.
To get there. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
That resonates. But I mean, in that moment of
doing all of those things in onespot, it was.
Horrible. Yeah.
And then I'm like, OK, great. It's 7:00 and now I'm ready for
bed. When I I will say like, yeah, I

(44:40):
will say I've never felt like prouder of myself.
And then when that's happening, the escalation of one of my
children and I can sit down withthem and I just, I just hold
space for them. Yeah, just sit in silence with
them. Just sit in silence and just
know that like that's me visually showing them that I'm

(45:01):
there and that I'm not scared ofthem and that nothing that they
can do is going to make me run away.
But when I'm in that, when I'm in that moment, I'll be like,
because my insides don't feel calm, right?
My insides are like. Stacy's trying to come.

(45:23):
Out Stacy is and it doesn't comefrom my spine, but it comes from
my chest heart like it's like I can feel my veins popping out of
my neck and like you know you'rehulking out Yum.
She's a little Hulk baby. Yours is Bruce, Bruce banner,
get out of here. And but I do say that like when
and when it like the Co regulation happens, like for

(45:47):
Finn, he just needs contact. He just wants he needs space
right away. He needs space like even when he
was a little kid, like baby, he would put himself not in time
out. We've never done time in and out
on our, we've taken, we call it like quiet time, but there's
something that really, yeah, take a break.
And he would just do that automatically.
He would just like go in the other room and not do anything

(46:10):
in the room, just like sit there.
And then I would sit outside theroom and I, I would like knock
on the door, be like, hey, babe,I'm out here.
I just want to let you know thatI'm right here.
And if you, when you are ready, I'm here.
And he would come and he would just like sit in my lap and when
we just sit there and like I would rock him and he still has
almost 8 year old still likes todo that when he is like when I

(46:32):
can tell he's overwhelmed, he like it's physical contact for
him and which is amazing. So it's.
Like grounding to him, it's. Grounding to him, but like, you
know, to the outside. Like, I think my parents, when
they first saw that, they were like, are you going to go in
there and, like, save him? And I was like, that's obviously
he does not want that. He just closed the door.
Like, yeah, he removed himself. He removed himself.

(46:54):
So, like, I'm gonna honor that space for him.
And then, you know, when he getsolder, like, we'll talk through
it and stuff, you know, be like,is that, you know, what helps
you still then? Cool.
But oh, man, there were some moments.
So when Tori was tapped. Tapped Tori.
Yeah. There are some very unpretty
moments that happen in. Parenting, yes, he was like 3

(47:15):
and just moved into his big boy bed and there was a time Pat had
to save the day because like he was and it's very rare.
It has only happened a handful of times, like in his life,
which I'm very lucky there. But he was like, I was trying to
open the door and he was kickingthe door and slamming the door.
And I was then I was slamming the door and then he was kicking

(47:35):
the door and it was just, and Pat was like downstairs and he
like came up the stairs and it was just like his eyes over the
staircase and he was like, like Wilson.
Yes, it means Wilson from Home Improvement.
Home improvement, it means worldeither wrong next door neighbor.
That's Mr. Phoenix, anyway. But he was just like you guys,
good. And I was like hiding.

(47:57):
Just like hiding. Himself good and I was like this
is a tap out moment like he had to come and like tap me out and
I was like tap out. We'll still do that when we're
like trying to when because we can only handle so much, right?
Our nervous system can only handle so much.
And like, that's why I say when I have those good moments of Co

(48:17):
regulating, I'm like so proud ofmyself because there are moments
where I haven't and I just go full rage monster and I have to
use my partner. If I, you know, I'm lucky enough
to have a partner and I'm like, you got to tap in, bro.
Yeah, because I'm about to burn this fucker down like I can't.
And that will be not helpful. Yeah, I'm about to make my child

(48:38):
feel pain. Yeah, or I can tell when Path's
escalating and I'll like, you know, we have like a safe word
like a squirrel chipmunk. Like I don't know why it's
always chipmunk with me. Because they're cute and fuzzy.
Because they're tiny and they can hold food in their mouth.
I think we all can. What did I just?

(49:00):
Say anyway. So I think it's yeah, that one.
It's that is what it is. It's hard and rewarding.
It is. It is.
It is both of those things in a way that, like, you just cannot
put into words. It's not.
And when you are a a childless human and you hear these
stories, you're like, you peopleare fucking insane.
Yeah, because it is insane. But like on this side of it, on
this side of the story, you understand like the magnitude of

(49:25):
the final result, there's no final result.
The magnitude of like the the underlying relationship and like
how powerful it is when you in the moments where you are not
able to de escalate in the. Moments where you.

(49:46):
That's your shit when the Hulk? When Bruce Banner is no more?
Yeah, and you are straight Hulk.Do you have a conversation with
your kids afterwards? Yes.
Oh, yes, We apologize hard in our house.
Yeah, where I will say, you knowthat I did not.

(50:09):
Mama did not do her best. I was not my best self in that.
And I do apologize for weather being loud fantasy.
He's so justice based that even when we like start to get loud,
he'd be like, Mama, you're getting loud.
I can't. How do you handle that?

(50:31):
How's that received? Really depends on the day.
On the day, if I'm already goingdown Bruce Banner Ave. or if
I'm, if I, I'm like, you know what, You're right.
Yeah. But I'm also getting really
frustrated. And can you, can you tell me why
you think I'm getting frustratedanybody?
Because I'm not listening, but like, yeah.

(50:51):
And if I wasn't listening to you, how would that make you
feel? And he's like probably
frustrated. And I was like, yeah, so let's
work on the team right now. We call our family the team,
right? Same and same team.
Yeah, we're on the same team. So much in this House.
Same. Team, same team, right?
Pat and I and our relationship, it was like when we would come
into conflict. It's like at the end of the day,

(51:12):
we're coming. We, we're on the same team.
We want the same things. It is not you and me against
each other against the problem. It's you and me against the
problem. And that was when we were
parenting, early parenting, thatwas it, you know, like dealing
with night times or dealing withexplosions or, or schedules or

(51:34):
whatever it was. It was just like, why don't you
say it my way? And it's like your way is my I'm
we're on the same team. We're trying to come up with
what works best for everybody. And so trying to teach the boys
that and trying to teach the boys not to be Dicks, you know,
and just general life. We have enough of them.
And so I think if that is what Ileave the world with, I can give

(52:00):
myself a pat on the back to if Ican like raise 2 little boys who
can regulate themselves and not be Yeah, and the.
Power of the apology. I mean, like you losing your
shit at your kids and then sitting down with them to talk
about it afterwards and to apologize afterwards, right?

(52:21):
Like there's so much power in that.
Did your parents do that with you or is that something?
Is that a new tool that you're? My mom definitely had.
Yeah, my mom did. I don't remember my father doing
it. And yeah, no.

(52:42):
Yeah, that's kind of why I was asking, because I feel like it's
especially for their generation.It's like, did the men apologize
for anything? No, no, no.
I mean, when Pat and I have talked about that, because his
dad was the same as he said thatabout his dad as well.
He's like my dad. I don't remember him ever
apologizing. And that's just because, and I,

(53:03):
and yet again, I think like my parents did the best they could
with the tools they had, right? So it's just, and I thought they
were excellent parents. They're still human, right?
Like, and that's where in those moments where Bruce is also
present in Tori's life, like like how yours is Stacey and

(53:24):
mine's. Bruce Stacey, the spine Gremlin
and. I have Bruce Banner, like the
meanest of The Avengers. OK, well, hopefully I'll get
some royalties of the Bruce Banner.
I don't know. I think you.
Have to Hulk smash something first.
Well, she has, but yeah, I thinkthat I think that's what's

(53:49):
beautiful about getting to re parent yourself is like see the
the beautiful things that my my parents gave me and also seeing
the other side of them being like, I want to do that
hopefully a little bit better oreven just acknowledge that it
even happened, right, Because I I'm yet again, I think my
parents did excellent, but I needed some something moments of

(54:14):
other things. Yeah, you know.
And parents aren't perfect, no. And but like, do you remember
the time that. I mean, I thought I didn't know
that my parents were human untilprobably in my 20s.
Yeah. And I would like my children to
realize that I am human. I'm going to fuck it up on The
Reg, yeah. Because that's, that's part of
existing. Yeah, in.
This early, I want them to know it now.

(54:36):
Because it teaches them that they don't have to be perfect,
right? Like it's OK to make a mistake.
It's OK to lose your cool. It's OK to scream.
Learn from it though, like take that experience and how
uncomfortable it made you and how uncomfortable made the
people around you and then learnfrom that.
Do you want to repeat? Do you want to, do you want to
continue creating that dynamic and that energy with the with,

(54:57):
with people in your life? Or do you want to like have that
moment to recognize this is not a moment that I want to repeat
and then consciously decide not to.
I, I definitely was like, I don't, I don't.
I remember seeing my parents cry.
I vividly remember the first time I saw my dad cry and I was
oh. Two.

(55:18):
Oh yeah, yeah. I mean, I I remember, I vividly
remember it. Yeah.
I think I saw him cry once when I was like 6 or 70.
God, that could be really wrong.He was doing some kind.
What is time he was doing? My parents were already
divorced. He was doing some kind of like,
seminar, workshop, something. And I think my mom took us up to

(55:42):
surprise him and he cried and wegave him balloons or flowers or
something. This is like a fuzzy memory that
I'm trying to pull right now. And I remember, I remember I we
were in the lobby of the Convention Center.
Like, I have a photograph in my memory.
Yeah, but. But the details are fuzzy.
It's. Very fuzzy.
And I remember him getting tearyeyed.

(56:03):
I don't think he had like tears,but I remember him getting teary
eyed and, and maybe like, did I do something like being so
caught off guard by the fact that my dad had emotions, but I
was like, I must have done something wrong.
And then then, and then from that point, the next time I saw
him cry after that was when my grandfather died when I was 14.
Wow. So like, I didn't see my parents

(56:23):
were superhumans to me, like andalso apologizing was not in
their wheelhouse. So it was just like this idea
that I absorbed because of it, that like, my job is to be a
perfect robot and not make mistakes and not show emotion,
which obviously didn't stick. Right, we love a cry you.

(56:47):
Know a love, a good cry, but that is something that I felt
too was very important for my kids to like you.
It's OK for you to see me feel arange of emotions because like
we talked about before, right, like emotions are not good or
bad. They are They are the way your
body experiences and and responds to something.
But what you do with the emotionthat you feel is the thing that

(57:09):
can be judged, can be qualified as good or bad.
Yeah. But like, we can't shy away from
those emotions, and the fact that you're teaching that to
boys, I think is so valuable. Well, I I was talking.
For humanity. For humanity, I'm doing it.
For you guys, you're doing it. For humanity.
But I think that I also, I grew up thinking, and I don't think

(57:30):
it was. This wasn't told to me by my
parents. This was just something that I
innately felt. I think that that vulnerability
was weakness. Yeah.
And I think that's just part of my personality too.
Like whether it's because of whatever I'm an 8 or I don't

(57:51):
know, lots of reasons. Just my strong personality,
being a female, being a female, knowing that it was going to be
an uphill battle, but it was like, I'm not going to show you
my vulnerability. I'm not going to show you that
I'm sad. I'm not going to.
I'm just going to show you rage and and then marrying a person
who is on the emotional side andthe really beautiful growth that

(58:19):
Pat and I had to do together of like I was fearful of being
vulnerable and he was fearful offeeling his emotions.
And so us having to come together and be like, maybe
that's not the way, you know, like maybe I need to be more
vulnerable and you need to let me see your real emotions and
not be fearful of the fact that that being called emotional is

(58:43):
not bad, right? Like having a full spectrum of
emotions is not bad. That doesn't make you less of a
man. I think it makes you more of a
man. 100%. And what are we teaching our
boys? And that's a conversation that
we, you know, and Pat does such a beautiful job.
He does such a beautiful job of like of anytime, anytime that

(59:06):
we, there's like a movie that we're watching and it's, you
know, we're crying. He's like extra crying.
He's. Like he just opened the fucking
out and like. Or inside out, on, in and out.
Yeah, that's burgers. Burgers make him.
Cry, I get it. I mean, I get it animal style,
but but like watching inside outand he was just like ugly

(59:28):
crying, which so was I and but II nightly like I was like, stop,
yeah, stop yourself. But then I was like, no, what am
I teaching my children? Yeah, by doing that, because
Finn does, he's like, don't do it.
Don't, don't cry Like he'll. And we never taught him that,
right. We're we've been showing him the
opposite. And I'm like, have we gone too
far? Like we have, we pushed.

(59:49):
The emotions too hard that he's like, you know.
No, you're showing him in an environment that's safe because
the message that he gets the minute he leaves your house is
that he can't show emotion and he's not supposed to.
And it's like I am astonished atthe things that dot comes home
saying. In a room full of other 4 year
olds, I'm like, there's no, you have no business hearing this
horrible, toxic, demeaning messaging this young in your

(01:00:13):
life. It's so upsetting to me.
It's so upsetting to me. So like the fact that you're
providing an environment where you're sending that message to
them and showing them that it's safe and showing them that it's
valuable. And then they leave the house
and they're going to get all theconflicting messages everywhere
they go. But they still get to come home
to a place that's safe, where they are allowed to feel their
entire spectrum of emotions. I mean like the, the what that's

(01:00:36):
going to do for them as as adults in this world.
Hopefully. Hopefully.
Hopefully. Hopefully, because man I I.
Think you're doing great? Thanks mom.
You're. Welcome.
What a time, by the way. Yeah, it's, it's hard and it's

(01:00:56):
hell sometimes. She's not wrong.
It is hell sometimes. It's a yes and situation.
It is a yes and yes hell, and itis hell.
And it is the most beautiful thing I've ever done in my life.
There's. Nothing.
There's nothing even remotely close.
To it and I didn't even really like I didn't I didn't like look
at my life when I turned 30 and was like I'm.

(01:01:17):
I was born to be a mother. I never had that thought not
once in my life until I had kids.
And luckily the reason we had kids is because that's what
you're supposed to do. Yeah.
Like honestly, yeah, you, we gotyou.
Checked the wedding off. The list and then.
The next thing is I'm. So happy Pat and I, we like
traveled and did you know just the newlywed thing for a while
for a few years and then we got pregnant.

(01:01:40):
And so I was so happy that we had that time together because I
do think that we had a nice foundation before we had kids.
But I also think that I didn't. I never was like, Yep, I'm meant
to be a mother. Because I just it wasn't your
calling it. Wasn't my calling.
It was not my calling. I just wanted to do theater and

(01:02:01):
like, be silly. Yeah, you know, and teach yoga
and, you know, like all the things like have fun and have
fun and just like have a cute husband and like, you know,
whatever. I And so I don't even remember
the conversation of like, are wegoing to have kids?
Like, I don't even remember that.
I just remember finding out I was pregnant.

(01:02:22):
I have the video of telling Pat for the first time and like and
that was nice. But yeah, I never had the
calling. But man do I know that it is
part of my Dharma, right? It is like part of who I am
meant to be now and I would not have thought that growing up.
Same, Yeah. Yeah, and I'm so luckily I'm a

(01:02:44):
boy mom because I have. I was so sad when I found out I
was having two boys, though. Really.
Oh my God, I cried. Isn't.
That funny? Because I wanted a boy first.
Because I have an older brother.You wanted it to be.
Like and I wanted to be like I because, you know, I felt like I
kind of had a protector and but also that's just what I grew up,

(01:03:05):
right, And so that's what I wanted.
So when I had Finn first, I was like, yes, I did it.
Check. Here's a whole like we got to
have a girl next and then we didthe in COVID right.
We I just saw the video yesterday actually of Pat
hitting a golf ball and exploding blue and I was so.
Sad. Was it a surprise you guys
didn't know? Yeah, I we had no idea for your

(01:03:27):
gender reveal. And so which I was like, you're
on camera Tori, you're on camera.
Don't cry on camera holding Finn.
I was like holding 2 year old Finn and I was like, don't cry.
It's fine. It's going to be beautiful, but
man am I so like the universe had my back on that because I am
meant to be a boy mom. Hard, hard.

(01:03:48):
It just every day that I'm more of a boy, I'm more of a boy mom
every time because I'm like, I meant to feel all the feelings.
Show them how to feel all the feelings.
Yeah, and. And girls create.
A new and different path. Girls are Yeah, man, I, I had
the same but opposite response where I, I didn't find out the
gender of either of them while Iwas pregnant, but I, I, I always

(01:04:14):
thought I wanted to have boys because of what I was told,
right? Like my, my whole family, my
whole life was like, oh, just wait until you have a girl.
And it's always like, like thrown at me with like, you
know, nobody, nobody ever wants me to feel anything warm and
fuzzy and positive from a statement like that, right?

(01:04:37):
And so I just thought that, like, having girls was going to
be horrible. And then I was going to be
really bad at it. And I thought I was going to be
really bad at it because none ofthe female adult role models in
my life knew how to parent me. And so to me, the messaging was,
girls are really hard to parent.When actually then I had one
girl and then I had a second girl.

(01:04:59):
And I thought when Roslyn was born, I was like, Oh my God,
everything's, everything's horrible.
I'm now, I now have to have a girl, which means I'm now have
to do like the hardest parentingthing.
And I'm just going to like, fuckup more kids.
Like, I'm just going to create this constant cycle of like
fucking up the next generation and we're just going to keep
going. And then when dot was born, I

(01:05:20):
felt relief is the only way I know how to say it.
And I and I feel similarly to with the way that you feel like
these were both of them were by karmic girl babies.
I am meant to be a girl, Mom 100.
Percent, 100% you are. And if you had said that to me
anytime before me having children, I'd be like, you are

(01:05:41):
on drugs or you don't know me atall.
Yeah, but really, I didn't know me at all because I knew the
messaging that I haven't given, and I had decided to make that
part of my identity when I had no business making that part of
my identity. Look at that.
Look at that. Just just parents.
Just parenting is badass. Badass, but it is hard.
And it's horrible and it's incredible and there's nothing

(01:06:02):
like it. And so she's not wrong.
Yes, Aunt. But she also ain't right.
She's not wrong. Aunt, she's not right.
I have plenty of light in my eyes.
Well, the sun is shining directly into your eyeballs
right now. But on a, on a good and even a
bad day, right? Yes, so.
Much light, yeah, and sometimes you don't have light in your

(01:06:23):
eyes, but that doesn't last forever.
Sometimes you're sitting really hard.
Even if you don't have kids. I didn't have light in my eyes.
I feel like I have more light inmy eyes as a parent than I ever
did as a parent. 100% I didn't know shit before I had kids.
No. And then I had kids and I was
like, I think I know everything.And then you had your second kid
and you're like, oh, I don't know shit I.

(01:06:44):
Might not know anything because that kids doing way different
stuff like why aren't they the same?
I know, which is a whole different podcast.
They didn't come out like littlecookie cutter babies.
No come. On how dare they be their own
people. I know.
Anyway, kids are the tits. Kids are the tits.
Kids are the tits. So is parenting.
So is parenting if that's your calling, or if that sounds
appealing. And if it doesn't, don't do it.

(01:07:06):
You don't have to. And please wrap it up double
wrap. Double, double, double it up,
triple it up. You don't mean to feel.
Anything wouldn't feel anything.You want to feel stuff, but
like, also there's ways to stop that.
OK, anyway, it's true. All right.
Well, anyway, I think we crushed.
IT kids are great, cheers to that.

(01:07:27):
Cheers to that, cheers to that, and thanks for listening and see
you next Tuesday. Bye.