E09 No New Friends? Same

This #kthottake is brought to you by the struggles of navigating adult friendships. We’re unpacking the emotional clutter that comes with opening your circle to new friends (or not), setting boundaries, and figuring out who actually deserves your energy. From forced mom-friendships to trusting your gut, we’re diving into what it means to expand and contract without losing yourself. As usual, we have opinions.

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
Do you have the thing? It's stupid.
All right, let's go for it. I have it, but it's stupid.
But we'll figure it out. Yeah.
Yeah. Traps.
Hi, friends. I'm Kimberly.
I'm Tori. You're listening to.
It's nothing. It's everything.

(00:23):
Yep, yeah. It's really stupid.
I really hate it. Bebop bop.
No OK. No, that's it.
I think that's it. That's our, that's our intro.
That's us. That's us.
Here we are. You're getting the real deal.
We are raw. Raw.
How many times can we say we're raw and unfiltered, which which

(00:44):
for us just equates to free balling it, winging it?
Authentically ourselves. Authentically authentic.
We're so authentic and you love the chaos.
So thanks for being here. And hey, hi, please make sure
that you like share. Comment.

(01:05):
Comment follow follow Also we I was like oh we can have
subscribers now subscribe you guys, that was a lie.
You cannot subscribe. We have lied to your face.
Because we didn't set it up, we have not set up subscriptions,
so you cannot subscribe. But they will come.
Yeah, someday. I mean, listen, if we can grow

(01:26):
our following a little bit more,we can create extra content just
for you. Just for you.
Our Ogs. Our Ogs deserve it.
They've been here. We know you're here and we love
that you're here. Yes, so much.
Thank you for being here. Yep.
Thank you for staying. Thank you for sharing with your
friends. Yeah, Share more.
If you haven't to it. Come on, did you share with your

(01:49):
Nana yet? She might not like it.
Nana's will get freaky though. That's true.
Nana's don't give a fuck anymorelike Nana.
Talk about raw dogging. What?
What's Nana Raw dogging? So many things.
Probably she doesn't know that helps out there.
Anyway. That's a weird thing to say.

(02:10):
Anyway, Nana, it's a weird day. It is.
It's a weird day. It's a wee woo woo weird day.
Yeah, by the way, we do have a special guest today in this
podcast episode. My little one is with us,
Sawyer. So if you hear little noises,

(02:30):
it's him. Shout out to soybean, yeah.
He's plugged in right now. He's.
Just over there being all cute in his old chair.
Look at him just sitting there smiling.
He just held a time, Yeah. Come on, bud, we'll try to get
him to say something in his little voice.
Let's do it. He can be our first guest.
Could be. What inappropriate things can we

(02:53):
ask him? Do you think his mom will get
mad? No, I don't think so anyway.
Anyway, wait, is this a hot take?
KT hot take? KT hot take.
Sure. Yeah.
Yeah. Well, really, Because you had
someone come to you and I had someone come to me separately.

(03:16):
Yes. About this.
Topic And I've actually had a few people more than more.
I've had at least three people ask if we could discuss adult
friendships. So this is a hot topic.
This is a Hot Pocket. This is hot Topic.
I think people are, yeah, they're lost in the sauce and

(03:37):
just want friends. They want connection.
And it's Hard Out Here. It's hard to make friends, was
an adult. It's hard to match your weird
with other people's weird. It's hard to match your weird
with other people's, especially if they have kids.
Like their kids are weird. Your kids are weird.
Yeah, there's so many layers of blending that you have to figure

(03:58):
out Yeah, so many. Well, and also like we, you
don't have the repeat exposure to people at this time, at this
age in life to really be able tolike, forge new friendships in
a, in a small amount of time, which makes it really hard to
like, yeah. Which makes it really hard to
like grow to a point that you are like bonded and getting

(04:20):
deeper and like, like moving forward in a friendship.
Like when we were kids, we grew up, we were in a monoculture.
Everybody was growing the same way in the same environments.
We're in the classroom together,We're on sports teams together.
We're in extracurriculars together all day, every day.
And so you just have like repeatexposure over and over and over
again. And you're going through all of
these life experiences together all the time.

(04:42):
So it like naturally you bond with people.
One of my best friends to this day is my high school best
friend. But like we creating friendships
when you don't have that singular shared environment is
so hard. And I feel like also for us,
like in theater, it's kind of the same, right?
Like you are together all the time.
You're thrust together. You are having shared

(05:04):
experiences. You are like in the trenches
together which makes you bond. But just like meeting a person,
like there are so many moms. Oh man like could the Co-op moms
there are parents at Dot's school?
Now that I'm like God I wish I had more time to spend time with
you guys. I I mean, Sawyer's school year

(05:25):
is he only has two more weeks left in his school year.
I don't know any of those women.Yeah.
And I stand in line with them. And I'm not, I don't have the
personality be like, hi, my nameis Tori.
I'm Libra. And you know, like I don't I.
Don't do it your dating profile.Yeah, I don't, I don't do it.
And I and I, I've never been good at it.

(05:46):
I never like leave, you know, his little preschool with more
friends. I get really uncomfortable,
highly uncomfortable. Like Finn had a birthday that
was like old school birthday at the house, at their house.
It was thrown at their house. And there were like the old
days, like the old days, like come play with our toys.

(06:08):
Why are we going to like rent out the entire trampoline, you
know, gymnasium, come to our house, play with the toys.
Some people stayed because like,I don't feel comfortable leaving
my my children in some stranger's house.
And so, but that awkward, like Iwas standing.

(06:31):
Yeah. In someone's house.
Yeah. I mean, like in somebody's
house. Luckily there was.
I do the art docent program. So I'm like art docent for
Finn's school and which is very cute.
It's, you know, lovely. And I met another art docent
where we were thrust together tocreate art with these six year
olds. And so she does have one of
those personalities, like, hi, my name's, you know, XY and Z

(06:53):
and, you know, you guys can comeover anytime.
And just, like, very lovely. And I latched onto her 'cause
she was at this party. And I was like, oh, my God.
Hello. Yeah, Please don't leave me.
How's your life? Tell me everything.
Because I was so nervous to like, talk to anybody else.
It's it's hard to like it's hardto have those like first date

(07:16):
conversations with other people with it's just.
I'm like what's appropriate? What's not appropriate, like
letting your freak fly fly is hard when you're going to be so
judged by this person. Yeah, it's different when.
Your kids are involved too, right?
Where you're like, I don't want to fuck this up for my kid.
So, like I should, you know, be approachable enough.

(07:37):
I want Gary to come play at our house.
Yeah. Because yeah, that that art
docent friend, like I invited her son over because Finn was
like, Oh my gosh, can we please have a play date?
And I said, yeah, I was so nervous and I had her number for
some reason. So we were texting back and
forth and they came over and I was like, you know, I can like

(07:57):
just bring him home from school 'cause I have like an extra
thing. And she's like, you know what?
And she was very honest. She was like, I don't feel
comfortable with that, but I would, you know, we can all come
over. And I was like, oh, great.
And they were there for like 3 hours.
Like they were there for a long time, which is great.
And so we really did. Yeah, we really got to, I got to

(08:18):
know her. So we're like, now we're past
that kind of vibe, but of scaredscaredness.
But it was like me pulling up mymy big girl panties and be like,
OK, I don't know this person andthey're going to be in my house
for an extended amount of time and I, is my house clean enough?

(08:39):
Are they going to judge my house?
Are they going to judge how I hold how many toys we have?
What kind of toys we have? Just all the fun.
All the fun things. Well, and then right, like you
had them over, but then now there's the whole next part of
like, do you keep having them over?
Will your friendship deepen overtime?
Maybe it will, maybe it won't. And also like, man, having

(09:01):
friends, this is going to take us in a completely different
direction. So OK.
We'll circle back. Yeah, having now that you have
children, having childless friends, do you feel like your
friendships with childless friends shifted?

(09:22):
I noticed a shift. I noticed a big shift in some of
them. Surprisingly, I noticed a shift
in female friends without kids more than male friends. 100%
Well, all my male friends are gay.
Yeah. So, you know, they don't.
They're just like there for the ride anyway.
You know, some don't show up like some I, you know, I mean,

(09:46):
all of them like showed up at least once.
Sawyer was a special snowflake because of the pandemic.
But like, for the most part, they have all met my gaggle of
gays, have all met my children. But like, we have some gym gays.
So I call them my down South gays.
Yes, I lived, you Southern gays.Well, Anne, they're from the

(10:09):
South. Oh yeah, the actual there
actually. Yeah, not just in tough.
Yeah, no, yeah, yeah, they are from the South.
Oh, that was Savannah anyway, but still in the South.
Oh, oh boy. Oh my 7 feelings.
There's a dog here too. But they are just so lovely.

(10:31):
Like they were so excited to, you know, be part of, you know,
our friendship and, and vice versa.
I mean, cause the gym is in my gym anyway, a lot of the same
people show up at the lot of thesame time, right?
It used to be the hot mom class because like all the moms who
had just dropped off their kids would come and it was just like

(10:53):
a ton of women. And now it's kind of like we
call it the hot mess express because now it's kind of like a
smattering of, you know, everybody, not a ton of moms,
but the but having like being forced into that.
And that started slow, right? It was like, oh, hi, you know,

(11:15):
can we like work out next to each other and all that?
And I don't know how it grew. But now that yeah, we have like
adult friends who will want to hang out with and they all like
like the my down South gaze likelove hanging out with my
children and are kind to my children, which is nice.

(11:35):
But I don't I'm trying to think of if I have like a if or any
friends, any childless friends, I mean, that aren't in theater,
right. And because my theater is my
theater career is so it feels soseparate from everything else in
my life that like, most of them are single, ready to mingle.

(11:57):
Childless cat ladies, you know, like, honestly.
Even some feels, bud. Tell us about it, Stud And so.
But. But no, I'm never like, hey, you
want to come over and hang out? Even though a lot of them do
offer. But I live down South.
Like, nobody's coming down South.
Yeah, I live so far away and nobody wants to come hang out

(12:18):
with me, which is fine. Yeah.
Proximity also matters. It also matters, man.
Doesn't matter. Yeah.
Also like something that surprised me was childless
female friends once I had kids who had expectations of like my
availability. Oh, I have none, yeah.
Yeah, it's non existent babe, but I was surprised that that

(12:42):
that was a factor in like femaleto female friendships.
I don't know why I didn't anticipate it, but that one
surprised me. Like they would be get mad
because you didn't have. Time or like wouldn't respond
right away or. Of responding right away, I'm
like, yeah. What?
What? Yeah, I'm probably going to get

(13:03):
back to you four days later. That's just how it is.
That's. Just the way it goes, oh, see,
I'm like, I must instantly text you back otherwise it rots my
heart like that. I, I, I like, you know, those
people have I'm sure you are oneof those people.
You're one of those people. I can, I know it who've got like
the notifications of like thousands of emails.

(13:23):
It's not emails, but I I will not read a message.
Yeah, until I'm ready to respondto it.
So I have unread messages. Have you ever learned?
Like have you ever learned how to make it unread again?
Yes, of course. I just learned this the other
day. Because that's like my
checklist, like I will leave themessage unread until I have time
to switch my brain to that mode.Like if somebody texts me while

(13:44):
I'm at work, I'm not gonna. There's no way.
My work days are so chaotic. I'm like, like the people that I
respond to during a work day arelike you and Nick.
It's funny because I was like, it was funny because like, I
sent you a text this morning being like, we have to move it
back. And I was like, she's probably
and Pat's like, well, she answered.
I was like, no, she's probably in a meeting.
Like she has a real job. What are you talking about?

(14:04):
I was like, so mad at him. Don't disrupt her day, God.
I was in meetings. I know.
So I didn't expect you to. I was like, surprised that you
got back to me because I was like, I don't expect that.
But it was great because I was going to text you and be like,
we got a problem and then I opened my phone and I already
had a message from you and it worked out.
Perfectly is meant to be. Thanks universe.

(14:27):
Thanks universe. Thanks for having our back so we
could do this. But yes, friendships, adult
friendships and also how they change.
But where do you meet them? I mean like, where do you meet?
Where do you meet people? Is it only in school lines?
Because like when we. When like for Finn's drop off,

(14:51):
like it's a drive up drop, drop off.
Yeah. Like I had not getting out of
the car. When I pick him up, I drive up
and they put him in the car. Oh, really?
Yes. So there's no like actual human
interaction. There's no human interaction.
They also don't give out directories at my school.
And so like I have no like Finn's like, can we have a Blade
date with Carlos? And I was like, yeah, how do

(15:15):
you? Do.
That and I but exactly, and I don't wanna like I have
contacted teachers before be like, I know this is weird, but
like, can I get you know this thing?
And usually it's like, well, I'll ask for permission.
I have to ask for. Permission.
You put a note and Carlos. You know, there's like probably
HIPAA or whatever and, and, but the other thing is like, so at

(15:37):
this birthday party, right at this house, Carlos walks up to
me and he's like, hey, you know,my mom doesn't allow me to go
over to people's houses. This is a special occasion
because it's a birthday. Can I have your number?
And I was like, he's like, turned to the mom next to me.
I was like, you know, I've neverbeen asked out by a six year old
before and I don't know how to respond.
First time for everything. You know, and I was like, sure,

(15:57):
man. Sure.
And then he had squirrel brain and he just ran away.
And so, like, I, I how do I get in contact with you?
Yeah. So yeah, I'm like how?
Where does it start? Yeah.
And I. And then how do you like, where
does it start? How do you grow it?
Like, how do you find the time? How?

(16:18):
Often. Do we hang?
Yes. Like how my time is filled.
Same. My calendar is out of control.
Filled and out of control, yeah.And I thrive on routine.
So I do the same shit every single day.
And you know, I have some friends who'll get mad at me
because they're like, you don't make the effort.
And I was like, that is not my strong suit.
But if you're coming to me and you're like, hey, Tora, I have

(16:39):
this thing. It would be important.
It's important. Like, can you come?
I'm going to show up. I show up.
But me being having the wherewithal and like working
into my routine, very hard for me to do.
And so, yeah, if you're not like, in the circle of my jobs
or my life or my gym, you're never going to see me.

(16:59):
Yeah. Because you run in the same
circles. I run in the same circles and
they're all you know. Yeah, most of them don't have
kids. Well, it's so I have two moms
from the coop the dot was in twomoms that I've been trying to
get together with for brunch forliterally this entire school
year. The first time we had something

(17:21):
planned was September. I had to bail last minute.
I think rosin had an ear infection.
And then like we have been trying to get together since
then. But like my mostly free day, I
don't, I like cannot socialize on weeknights because my work
day starts so early and like my brain has to be fully
functioning when I sit down at my desk in the morning.
So I just don't socialize on weeknights, which means you get,

(17:42):
you can have me for a Friday night or a Saturday night and
that's it. Or like if you want to do a
weekend brunch, that's all you get.
But like, so that's my schedule.One of the moms, her night out
is Tuesday nights. Another one of the moms, like
it's just always, well, she and her husband have an arrangement.
There is one night a week where she is out of the house, one
night a week where he is out of the house.
And that is like a non negotiable.
And it's like, I don't care if you go sit in your car.

(18:04):
Yep. But like you are taking this
night to be away, to have space,to have breath.
Yep. And to, like, be your own
person. That's so smart.
Yeah, so like we, we still, we still have not been able to get
together and it has been almost an entire school year since we
started trying. It's so freaking hard.
And these are like amazing womenI would love to have a deeper

(18:27):
bond with, but it's not like youcan build a friendship over
text. I.
Mean you can, but that's all that that it is.
And then there's like the physical, like when you're
actually physically present, there is a difference.
Yeah, and if you build a friendship over text, then
you're in person and you're like, now what do we do now?
I have to, like, hold a live conversation.
I can't just respond. I can't think about my response

(18:50):
and plan my response before I write it.
And edit it 17 times. Real time.
Give me real time. But I also only want real time
people. Yeah, like I want people.
And that's, I mean, in my later years, you know, I have drawn
that really strong boundary withmyself.
Like, if, if the vibe is wrong and I'm a good vibe director,
like if the vibe is wrong, we'reout.
Yeah. And it's not personal.

(19:10):
It's just like, sorry, I I just don't, I don't have it.
There's not time. Don't have it.
So like, one of the gals who asked me shout out to Kelsey.
She's about to have a baby. She was like, she essentially
forced herself. And she started as a student of
mine. And I don't like, love to blur
the lines of like, student, teacher.

(19:31):
It's whoa, you're OK. Oh, thanks, babe.
It's hard for me to do that. Yeah, and it's tricky.
It's. Tricky.
It's a fine line. Yeah, God, But I've always.
She actually went to high schoolwith Pat and she's so lovely.
And so I was like, OK, yeah, yeah, she's like, all I want to

(19:51):
do is go for a walk. I was like, OK, First off she's
30, 3334 weeks pregnant right now.
She had me go on a four mile walk.
I said girl, add a girl. Way to put me to shame just out
here getting it done. But we had this conversation of
like, it is that once you even have a bond, how can you build

(20:15):
the bond? Like make it part of a routine?
Is it worthy of a routine and a habit like and also if they have
a family, does the family mesh? Yeah, 'cause then it's more than
just you. Big thing like I, I will get
along with some people really well and then I put I throw Pat
in the mix and he's like, that ain't it for me, like, you know,

(20:38):
or vice versa. And you know, there's some like
cross contaminating Pat and I don't it's not only you don't do
it on purpose. It's just like he has his guy
friends that he'll like go hang out with.
I don't really have girlfriends.I don't have a ton, right.
That I'm not like we have texts.Like we text, we Marco Polo, we
do those things, but like, we'renot getting together.

(21:00):
Yeah. But yeah, she was, I mean, she
was like, how do you, how does it all work?
I I mean. It's so hard.
It's so hard and yeah. And so much changes, like life
changes so rapidly when you havechildren, you go from the

(21:23):
newborn phase, infant, toddler, then the learning curve of
getting into school. And then like I thought once dot
was in school full time that my my schedule was going to get
easier. And it did in some ways for
sure. Like it allowed me to work an
actual full work day instead of like working a partial work day
and then sitting on the couch from, you know, 9:00 PM until
midnight to finish my work before starting the next day

(21:45):
over again. But now my schedule is so
tightly regimented, there is no room for flexibility Monday
through Friday. Like no wiggle room.
It is like wake up, I'm at my desk by 636456 maybe depending
on the day. I work until I leave at 3:30 to
get Roslyn from the bus. I get her from the bus, we come

(22:08):
home. I work a little bit longer.
I go, I go pick dot up from school, bring her home.
We all have dinner if there's time.
We all have like a family game, like family play together and
it's bedtime for dot. And then it's like hang time
with Roslyn. And that's until Roslyn goes to
bed at 9:30. And then like that's the whole
day. And then the day's over, and
then I am supposed to take my eyes open so that I can have

(22:30):
time to myself or with my husband.
Yeah. Yeah.
So like, where do I fit in the friends, Right.
Yeah. Or I should say, where do I fit
in the new people? How do I prioritize fitting in
the new people? And that's not to say that I
don't want to prioritize it. It's just harder.
It's just harder. Yeah, I'm one and two things can

(22:51):
be true at one time, right? We were like, I want to
prioritize that, but I don't have the bandwidth to prioritize
it. Yeah.
And that's why, like, fostering the relationships you still have
is really important. But then there's that caveat of
like, people change and growing apart.
Do they still resonate? Yeah.
Is. And that's hard.

(23:13):
That part is, I think that's thehardest part.
It's like I don't our yet again the vibes I'm like they are they
off? Our vibes don't vibe anymore.
They don't vibe anymore, which is fine, like we can you know,
it doesn't mean that it's not going to come back right, But
yeah, there's I I just don't I will not prioritize those

(23:34):
relationships. No, which is not super lovely of
me and I understand that. I mean, but I'm just like,
that's there's too much going on.
There's too much going on and there's you have so little time
for yourself without children orI'll speak for myself.
I have so little time for myselfwithout children.

(23:56):
If I'm going to intentionally take time without my children on
the weekends, on the only two days that we have uninterrupted
together, it's going to be for something that is filling my
cup, right? And like with those friendships
where the dynamic has changed and it doesn't fill my cup, I

(24:18):
can't justify sacrificing time with my family for that or
sacrificing time with myself forthat because that time is so
precious. And so especially time with time
for myself, time to do the things that I want to do.
That happens so rarely. It has to be low friction.

(24:39):
Which friendships, you know, should be anyway.
Yes. And, and it has to feel good.
Yeah. And like, man, some of those,
some of those friendship dynamics that change, some
friendship dynamics change for the better, like incrementally
for the better. And then some change for, for, I

(25:01):
don't want to say for the worse,but like some become so
different. Yeah.
Like sometimes you just grow into in such different
directions. Yeah.
That it's that it's harder to maintain or it becomes, I don't
want to say not worth it, but itjust becomes less.
I don't even. Know what the word is?

(25:22):
Brain is melting. Yeah, I can see the brain.
Melting. You can see it happening in real
time. Real time brain melt.
Mew is powering down. And I like.
Obviously it's easy to to call that out when I'm the one
talking about like the friendships that feel like they
don't work for me anymore. But it's also hard to be on the
receiving end of that too. Like when when somebody else is

(25:44):
the one who decides that their dynamic doesn't work anymore.
It's a hard thing. Yeah, I mean, and maybe that's
happened in my life, but they'vejust, like, ghosted me so hard.
Yeah. Because I can't, like, think of
a time where that's where they have just been like, that's
enough Tori, no more. I think they just, like, leave
my life. Yeah, yeah, then which is fine,

(26:11):
right? Like, yeah, OK.
But I do think it is. I think there's something,
there's something very special about like getting together with
a like a girlfriend. And it's so easy that there's
its own special magic. But I just don't know.

(26:31):
Yeah, I don't know. Like is.
I don't know how to do that. Well, it's you can't, you can't
force it. It has to happen over time.
And then to be able to like giveit the time that it deserves to
be able to see if that happens organically.
Right. Who has the time?
So really what we're saying is. You either have to you.
Can't do any of it. Literally next door to each

(26:52):
other or have an abundance of time.
And then there's the ugly cat. This is an ugly thing to bring
up and I'm going to do it. Politics, that's hard.
That's been a real, that's been a real gut punch to a lot of my
relationships lately. As of the last year plus, you

(27:17):
know, especially since I live inmore of a purpley area.
That's like, I feel not safe, like with my feelings and my
true my true feelings. Yeah.
I think This is why that art docent babe and I get along so
much because like, she and I areon the more liberal side.

(27:38):
She is unapologetic about it, which I absolutely love.
And I'm don't like conflict. So I'm like, I like run away.
But that has been like a not great game changer.
Yeah, that's a hard one. But you know it's.
A sad one. It's a sad, it's a super sad 1
so personal it. Yes, yes, it did.

(28:02):
And like I will say, in circles of my life, there was some time
where we, Pat and I, both had to, like, leave for a while
because we felt we were like, how, how, how, Yeah.
Like, you, don't you? If, if that's the way you went.
Yeah. If that's the way you went, it

(28:24):
means you don't respect me, You don't respect my choices.
You don't respect my body and mychoices.
You don't respect my family's choices.
You don't respect human rights. You don't.
Respect people's right to have achoice you.
Don't have you know, and I stillI still struggle with that, but
I just swallow it. Yeah, which is also doesn't feel
it was so fast Soyer. It also feels like trash.

(28:47):
That feels inauthentic to me. But and also in the teaching
space, that's hard too, because like, you know, everyone's, you
know, it's all yucky. Well, but I mean, teaching
people come to you for you, right?
And like the people who aren't. Well, and I don't want to.
That is not what I want to talk about, right?

(29:08):
Like when the election happened,good, bad or otherwise, the
theme of the day was like, let this be a space where you can
just sit and feel whatever you need.
No matter, you know, no matter how you feel, yeah, you can be
here. You can be here and you can move
through it and either move through the trauma and the

(29:29):
sadness or the rage. So, you know, just creating
space to hold space for people. But in my personal life, you
know, it's a that has been, that's been hard because like
also kids are raised different to believe differently, right,
than what our values are for us and my family and my boys.

(29:55):
And it hasn't happened yet. But I've heard some stories
where like they'll be in a play date and the kid says something
like, I'm going to stomp on thatrainbow flag and spit on it.
And how do I not punt that kid across, you know, and or the
parent, like it's not the, you know, they're just, they're just

(30:15):
saying what they've heard. Yeah, but like how, how do you
now that's the other layer that is so prevalent and so present
right now is this political thing.
I mean, it's a significant element to friendships, one,
because like, don't teach your children to be hateful, but you
and I and your heart, keep it toyourself.
But. And I want us to be all coexist,

(30:36):
right? Like I want us.
I want. I have Republican friends like
I, and I love them deeply. But we.
But it's so Sawyer. A little quieter, babe, but I
don't know. Oh, my gosh.

(30:57):
Here, come here. You got to pick.
Snack it up, bud. Snack it up.
Oh, geez. Yeah.
Take that off for a second. There you go.
You're doing that. Can you say hi?
My name is Sawyer. Am I going to say it?
Can you say it in here? My name is Sawyer.

(31:18):
How old are you? You're 4.
What's your favorite color? Dark blue.
Oh, dark blue. Dark blue.
What's your favorite snack? Z bars.
They're pretty good. Costco.
Pretty taste. I don't have any more Z bars,
but I do have this, like, it gets me.

(31:41):
Yeah. I'm having a struggle so deeply.
We struggle so deeply with it because it is also like the the
muzzling of the. I feel muzzled.
Yeah, a lot. Like I can't let my freak fly,
fly. And man, you want to see a Rayji
Tori, you put a muzzle on her. And even if they're not
intentionally putting a muzzle on me, Right.

(32:02):
But because I don't, I the. I can't trust how you're going
to receive my information. Yeah, then I muzzle myself and
usually when I do that I just create more space.
I just like well. That's part of the authenticity
piece, right? Like you can't, if you can't
authentically be yourself aroundthis person, then like can can

(32:23):
your friendship deepen? I think that's the the
conversation around politics too, is it's like so much of our
values are tied to politics and values are such a core element
of friendship that like when youhave differing values on topics
that are non negotiable, like women having autonomy over their

(32:48):
bodies. Rights for humans.
Basic human rights and like, it's hard to have a open and
vulnerable and safe friendship with somebody whose values don't
match yours on something as significant as that.

(33:10):
I mean, that's not like a a feeling I want to repeat on the
on the weekly, you know what I'msaying?
Like, I don't want to createspace to constantly be
around that. Yeah, because that is I'm just,
I'm kind of always on guard or you know, because I do have some
Republican friends. Like there are topics that are
just are no go's for US, which also sucks because it is, it is

(33:37):
like you don't I have to play a certain role.
I find myself like playing a certain role because I can't be
authentically me because if I gave you authentically me one, I
don't trust that you would use the information appropriately
100%. And I'm not here to debate.

(33:57):
I don't want to debate. I don't want to argue.
I don't like conflict, you know,like if.
That's not how I build a friendship.
That's. Not how I build a constant
friction. Like I don't, I can't do it.
And so there are times with those people in my life.
And it's not just like two people.
I have, you know, lots of peoplein my life.

(34:20):
But like, I don't, yeah, I want to just be able to talk about it
and not yell about it all the time.
God bless. But those, I mean, those, yeah.
I don't know if there's like theceiling, if that's like the
ceiling, you know, to that friendship.
Yeah, well, man, when values aremisaligned, that's.

(34:41):
But I mean, I like, we can all coexist, right?
Yes, I do believe in that 100%. Yes.
You know, like all the people can coexist and still be
friends, but is there, does it have to stop at some point
because, or not stop, but like the depth, there's a threshold.
Yeah. Because it's like, well, yeah,
my, my core values are differentthan your core values.

(35:05):
Somebody actually asked me that the other day about you and I
said, do you guys like align on everything?
And I was like, you know, great,great question.
That's a that's a great question.
I was like, I, I, we've lived different lives.
We come from different pasts. We've, you know, we've.
But like, I think at the end of the day, we have the, a big

(35:26):
picture that's similar. Yeah.
Because, yeah, listening to the same jargon from the same 2
minds is boring, right? But I do think that like you and
I have different perspectives onthings a lot of the time, which
is good, which is good. And it's why I value this
friendship because it's like, and it's why when I'm like, in a

(35:50):
pickle, I always turn to you because I'm like, she's going to
give me a perspective that I'm not seeing.
Yeah. And his face.
How much food can I? So, so many goldfish.
Oh no, he's having a bar. Oh, yeah.
But how he eats it is just like,I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll just
like, like, pushes it into his mouth.
I love it. Yeah.
I was like, you know what? I need to do like that.

(36:11):
You're going to talk about that?Anyway, that's yeah.
And how safe I feel when I'm around people who I know think
like me. Yeah, like it is like an
instantaneous, like I can feel my nervous system go, OK, I'm
safe here. That's a hard, Yeah, that's a
hard one too. Because I feel like that, like
there is two sides to this coin,right?

(36:33):
Because in a friendship where you are prioritizing these
limited amount of time that you have, you want to feel safe.
You want to feel met, right? Energetically met, you want to
feel as little friction as possible, but then also like
that's why we have so much polarization is because we only
want to be around what feels safe.
And so it's like it's hard. It's hard, yes, and but like

(36:58):
that doesn't mean I'm going to go out and start seeking out
like high friction relationshipsjust so that I can have.
So I can grow. Like, that's not really going to
be my my entire family is Republican.
So I have. Oh, I'm the black sheep, Yeah.
I'm very lucky in in for the. For the most part, all pretty

(37:20):
pretty. Liberal.
Yeah. My mom, my mom's very, very,
very, very liberal. But my dad, my stepmom, my
brother, his wife, they're all like very conservative.
Very conservative. Yeah.
Yeah. So like you were saying that
idea of like you have to like wear a mask or like you can't be
yourself around those people. Yeah.
It's really, it's really hard, Ithink too, like for me in that,

(37:43):
in that experience, to never feel like I can authentically be
myself around my family is very difficult.
So like, I, I'm not going to seek that out on friendships.
I need to have somewhere where Ican feel like myself.
Yeah. For your nervous system sake,
like being calm on the inside. So you're not always in this
fight or fight, yeah, which is what those kind of conversations

(38:06):
make me do. Yes, but and even even not just
about politics, but like, yeah, those friends that are just,
God, I I feel bad saying this because everybody needs support
when they are like in their darkness.
But those friends that are just like constantly negative about
everything all the time, where you get, you get to a point

(38:26):
where you're like, this will this will bring me down if I
don't create a boundary for myself.
Yeah. And how that impacts
friendships. Well, yeah, because you can't
just be like you're a downer. Bye.
I mean, you could, you could andpeople have and I'm probably I
probably I have in my life, not as an adult, but like young

(38:49):
Tori, I'd be like, no, you're a bummer.
So goodbye. Can be your friend.
No, I would. I was like, you know, like the
the boundary would be set, the healthy boundary would be set,
but just not in the kindest ways, you know, And that's where
Tori's had to do some learning. My compassion, as the priest
said, bring it back to the priest.
Come on, please. Because yeah, I might.

(39:13):
I definitely have some friendships that are have.
They just see it from a different perspective.
And I mean, to be fair, I used to live where I would expect the
worst and hope for the best. Yeah.
And I know we've talked about that before.
I think at least I've had so many conversations in my life.

(39:34):
But where, yeah, it would go into every scenario being like,
well, it's probably not going toturn out because it hasn't, but
I hope it does. Yeah, right.
And that was me pretending that I had this like, happy, like
outlook on life. Yeah, positive outlook on life
when really it was like, no, you're just a horrible

(39:55):
pessimist. And.
But like painting it in a pink light rose colored glasses but
really expecting it to be a dumpster fire and.
And so, like, retraining my brain to not do that, to be
like, no, what if it just all works out?

(40:16):
Exactly. Never.
Never. You're mine.
Oh, my. Do you want to play some deep
blows, Duplo? All right, OK.
I have been surprised by the I mean, we know that not all

(40:39):
friendships last forever, right?Friendships come and go and have
space in between and you know, there's all, every friendship
looks different. Every every friendship path
looks different. I have been surprised by a very
small select few friends that I thought would be in my life
forever and like the reasons that they are no longer in my

(41:02):
life. That's something too that I
think about adult friendships has been hard for me is like
really working on not taking it personally when somebody that I
thought was that was really important, you know, pulled away

(41:23):
for whatever reason. Like I had a friend that we were
very close because we live closeto each other.
And then we moved and she made avery pointed comment about it
and was like, oh, so you're not coming back up here?
And I was like, no, like, I can't.
We had no, we bought our house where we bought our house.
Like, I can't buy my house because I want to.
I would love to be next door to all my friends, but like, that

(41:44):
can't be the reason that we decide on the House that we
decide on, right? And so then I was like, you
know, trying to be positive. And I'm like, we just bought a
house. Isn't that so exciting?
And then I sent her the listing and she was just judgmental.
She was like, it needs new Windows.
And I was like, oh, I guess, I guess you actually took it
personally that I didn't move back to your neighborhood.
Yeah. But but then it's like, I'm not

(42:06):
that we don't have. We can't go anywhere from here,
right? Like I.
You know, and at the conversation.
Yeah, yeah. Like what are we supposed to do
now? And those.
I haven't had that happen often,but I'm always, I'm not always.
I was. I'm surprised by the way that

(42:29):
friendships dissolve when they do.
Yeah. But that's.
Also part of adult friendships, right?
Is it like for whatever reason she decided that I was not
valuable enough to her anymore? I mean, if you have any kind of
abandonment issues and loyalty issues, yeah, Yeah.
That's going to feel like you moved away because of me.

(42:50):
Yeah. You don't love me enough.
Yeah, and which like, good checkin everybody.
Like, like, let's like acknowledge that in our systems.
I have a friend like that. My friend is my husband and he
has real abandonment issues and real 'cause he is so loyal,

(43:12):
which is amazing, right? You want that in a friend, You
want that in a friend, right? But does take it personally when
friends have to move on and theyhaven't taken him with it or
something. I don't know where.
I'm just like, well, great, you know, and if the friendship
stays as it is, amazing. And if it changes, well, that's

(43:34):
what it's OK. You know where for Patty it is
like, it's not it's not OK. Why did they mess up a good?
Day, because that was his friend.
Because it was his friend and that's happened a lot because
and he is very aware. He is aware of that, that he
does that. And then he gets then he just

(43:55):
like it's like dead. You're dead to him.
Oh, he shuts it down. He shuts it down and he's
working on that, but like it is a very, it's a visceral reaction
for him. So and I know he's not the only
one in the world who feels like that, right.
So I mean, obviously your friendwho had a real issue with you
leaving was like, I'm going to make you, I'm going to be so

(44:16):
mean that you're going to want to come back and like, well,
that's not. Not quite.
How ain't it? Kid.
Yeah, ain't it, kid? That ain't it, kid.
Because I'm just, you know, I'm like, say, lovey, like, you
know, I can't change how I can only do what I can only control
my body. Yeah, right.

(44:36):
Yeah, so well, and it and it to me, it's I, I want, if I am
taking the time in my life to stay connected to a person, it's
for a reason, right? That that is me showing you that
I value you and our friendship because I'm taking the time.
That is like the first step, right?
The first message, I value you. I'm making an effort.

(44:58):
Even if it's one text, right? That's still an effort.
And I don't text a lot of people.
So I don't talk to a lot of people outside of my house.
So like, if you still hear from me, Congrats, we're friends.
Yeah, way to go. You're welcome.
Even if it's just a Yeah, you'rewelcome even if it's just a meme
on Instagram, right? Like it's still some kind of.
Human. But that's that's something that

(45:20):
that made you think of that person.
Yeah. And that that isn't taken
lightly or should not be taken lightly.
Yeah, but for some people, that's not.
For some reason, some people it's not enough.
Yeah. And I can't control that.
And I and that, and if that's asmuch as I can give and that
doesn't work for them, that's super unfortunate.
But that doesn't, that doesn't free up my capacity to give them

(45:42):
more because they want more. I have one of my very good
friends was telling me about howonce she gave birth, one of her
best friends was like, you know,you don't call me every day
anymore. You're not like available to me
all the time anymore. Yeah.
And she was like, yeah, it's because I have a baby now.
But like, her friend didn't havea baby, so just expected

(46:05):
everything to stay the same. And when it didn't, she was
like, oh, you, you must not loveme anywhere.
So yeah, Patty is not alone. Yeah.
Not alone. Not alone at all.
He's that. But like acknowledge that
that's, you know, and that, I mean, we've really gone off, not
off topic, but very much on topic in a direction, in a
direction of like, if people leave, it's fine instead of how

(46:29):
do we make more friends? Yeah, well, I think that's part
of adult friendships too, is that like, things change and we
all have different. Different seasons mechanisms,
coping mechanisms, seasons of life.
Yeah. You know, I mean, we're about to
get into like soft or not soft, keep wanting to call it

(46:50):
softball, T-ball and baseball. And I know like a lot of people,
like, really bond with those people that they're sitting on
the sidelines with. Yeah, 'cause they're sitting
screaming on the sidelines together.
Pat and I are not those people. That is something that we are
bad at and we have to get betterat.
Like we can't always expect other people to come to us.
Yeah, that just makes the relationship easy for us.
But like that's not the case andwe can't just sit in your in our

(47:14):
tower and be like, why does no one love us?
Why are you knocking on my door?We are so.
Fun and don't ever leave us likeyeah, we sound like a real hoot
because we are the path of leastresistance to human beings like
just that's just yeah, that's the season of life we are in
yes. So like acknowledging the season

(47:34):
of life you're in and eventuallyit'll be fine, right.
My kids will grow up and the they will abandoned me.
I can't wait to go through that with my husband and you know,
and or myself, right. It's going to hit me like a ton
of bricks. It's going to hit me in the face
repeatedly every day I wake up and they're not in my house.
I can't even imagine it's. Going to be great, but like I

(47:57):
will in that time have more space.
But I'm also just always surrounded.
All of my jobs are with a lot ofpeople right in theatre.
I'm around a lot of people in yoga, I'm around a lot of
people. So like I, I don't have a lot of
capacity. Yeah, you have to recharge when
you're not working. Yes, I very, very, very much do.

(48:21):
And that makes me sometimes not a good friend because I don't
have anything left, right. Yeah, I mean, and, but also
like, I loved this Kelsey gal because she was like essentially
forced me to go on a walk with her.
And I was so, so thankful that she did.
She just didn't stop. I mean, she didn't have to try

(48:41):
very hard. She was like, when can we go?
But even that scary step, I appreciate that scary step.
If somebody's like taking that scary step with me and and being
like, I like your vibe, can we hang out?
I'm like, yeah, thank you for doing the brave thing that I
wanted to do, but I don't want to do because I'm then I have to
like schedule it and think aboutit and do all the hard stuff,

(49:04):
the heavy mental lifting. But every once in a blue moon
I'm like down to clown with that.
I'm like yes and. Walking buddy, Come on.
Walking buddy come. On But yeah, it's not like an
every, you know, she wasn't expecting a lot.
She was expecting me to like, goon a walk with her and like,

(49:25):
have a human conversation, I think.
That's the point though, that that you're making.
That's like the crux. Of the best the.
Crux of the best key of adult friendships is it is so much
harder now to put yourself out there to make an effort than it
was when we were kids because wewere all making effort all the
time and you were just like naturally interacting with
people. Now you have to make a make a

(49:48):
thoughtful, intentional choice to interact with somebody.
And so it is a risk from the minute you open your mouth,
right? Like, yeah, but it is.
And do you want to take that risk?
Do you have the energy to take that risk?
Do you want to feel vulnerable right now?
Like, there's so much that goes into it.
For me, the biggest reframe about adult relationships is
like, you have to make an efforteven if it might not go

(50:10):
anywhere. Like if you are interested, put
yourself out there. The stakes are really fucking
low, right? Like.
Yeah, you can't just walk away. Put yourself out there.
If they say no, OK, And then youwalk away and like nothing has
really changed, right? Like you still are going home to
your family, you still have the same job, everything else about
your life is still exactly the same.

(50:31):
But you do have to just put yourself out there a little bit.
If you want friends, you don't have to want friends.
You can. That is also 100% OK.
You can want to be friendless, and that is your prerogative.
I'm yeah, I like having acquaintances, you know.
Yeah, but, well, no, I mean, I like having friends, but it just

(50:55):
looks so different for everybody.
Yes, it just looks so different.Like, what is friendship to
anybody? Anybody and everybody.
And I also like want to be, I have, I have some people in my
life where I'm like, I really want to be your friend.
But like, I can tell that they are, they're tapped out on
friends. Like they don't, they're not
looking for friends. You know, they just kind of like
exist in my life in some capacity.

(51:16):
And I'm like, man, it'd be greatif we could be friends, but I
also don't know how to get past your wall that you've built.
So yeah, maybe it's just not meant to be, you know, if it's
has to be that hard. No, like if it's that hard, No,
no. And also, there's time.
Yeah, like you have to be, you don't have to be in the same
season at the same time, but you, you both have to be in

(51:39):
seasons of your life at the sametime that accommodate building
new friendship. And like, sometimes you're not
in that season. No.
Which is just the way it is likesometimes you're full up and so
like so many things have to align in order to make friends
as adults. Yeah, wait and or even keep the

(52:00):
friends that you have. Yeah, because like, I've been
trying to get together with a girlfriend of mine.
I don't know as long as you've been trying to get together with
your girlfriend. Yeah.
Where it's just like I there's just nothing.
Yeah, there's just no, there's there's no time because of
sports, because of family things, because of vacation,
because of school, because of holidays, you know, just like

(52:23):
all the things. And so yet again, it's like if
we have to force it, sometimes, that's the universe saying, hey,
just chill out, it'll happen. It'll happen or it won't, I
guess. Or you'll never have friends
again. Or you'll.
Never have friends I don't know.It's also just time.
Do you say anything? No, I don't think so.
The last. Hour and a half.

(52:43):
Seasons. Seasons of life be hard.
Yeah, just be gentle with each other.
Yeah, and yourself. And if you feel like you don't
have very many friends right now, that's OK.
Just listen to this podcast. We're your friends.
Truly. Just sit on your couch and
listen to this podcast and pretend we're sitting on either
side of you. Look, look at this room on this

(53:04):
couch right between US. It's room for you to sit right
there and hang out with us. Us and Sawyer and Soybean and
his Minecraft. His Minecraft and his goldfish.
Yeah, all of his. Snacks.
Yep. But if you think it's hard, know
that we also think it's hard. It's so hard.
Yeah, that's that's the long, the long story.

(53:25):
Long and unpredictable and unpredictable, right?
Heal yourself. Make a friend.
Yeah, and maybe they'll last andmaybe they won't.
And both of those things are OK.Not every friendship is meant to
last for your whole life. Some friends are just here for
seasons, Right. So what is the season reason
here for a reason here for a season here forever?
I don't know. But like, here for a reason,

(53:47):
right? Like they're meant to teach us a
lesson. They come in and then they go
here for a season. You grow together, then you grow
apart. There's there are so many
different kinds of friendships. And that is also OK.
Have all of them have reasoned friends?
Have seasoned friends? Have forever friends?

(54:07):
Well, Sawyer says we. Have Sawyer.
Sawyer says the show's over. Sawyer says.
Like, you guys have beat that topic to death.
Yeah, it's dead. It's dead.
Is it? I don't know.
No, there's so many more things I could say.
There's so many more layers, we'll do a a roundup the second
one. Yeah, because every stage of
life is different, right? Like when I got married, my

(54:29):
friendships with single friends became different.
When I had children, my friendships with with single
friends, right. Like there's so many.
No, no, kid. When I progressed in my career,
friendships look different, likethere's so many transitions that
impact your friendships. Yeah, yeah.

(54:49):
So just yes. And life man, yes and just yes.
And. I mean, listen, here's the thing
about friends. Friends are great and I'm a
friend and you're a friend and Sawyer's a friend and.
You're always enough and never too much.
You're always enough. You're never too much.
Keep being amazing. And also because we are your

(55:10):
friends, could you please like, comment and share with your
other friends the ones that you have and or yet to make?
We'd really appreciate it. Thanks.
Thank you for being a friend. And then the gaze came out of
the woodwork and beat us to death because we don't know the

(55:33):
rest of those words. To.
Golden Girls. Yeah, sorry, guys.
Thank God I got that right. Anyway, on a on a.
Let's just close it down. We love that.
We love. You thank you for being here,
truly. Friends.
Thank you for being here. You thank you truly for being a
friend. You're great.
We appreciate you. Yeah, and this is a KT hot take.

(55:53):
So if you have a question for usor you want us to talk about
something specific, please either send a message on
Instagram or send us an e-mail at It's Nothing, It's everything
podcast at Gmail dot. Com yeah or find us on the insta
at it's nothing. It's everything pod you can
write us, you can voice notice listen, you can send us a video.

(56:13):
You can live your best life. I don't care.
Yep, have a magical day and see you next Tuesday.
Bye, Yeah.