July 15, 2025 • 54 mins
Turns out one wasn't enough, we needed to dig deeper into our harsh inner voices and unearth more childhood stories. We talk through how we mind-ninja ourselves, and also give out some thank-yous and shout-outs. It's a little bit of this and a little bit of that. It's nothing and everything. Come be kind to yourself with us; it's the cat's pajamas.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Hi friends. I'm Kimberly, I'm Tori, and this
is it's nothing. It's everything.
Hey, we're going to jump right in today because we wanted to
say thank you to all of you who engaged with us around our what
was the name of that magical episode?
Unqualified. Unqualified.
(00:21):
We are. Because we're hella unqualified
to to talk politics. And yeah, we did it.
We did it. We had some feels.
We, I think we're both nervous about putting it out into the
world because we don't one, we don't, there's enough, there are
enough conversations around it, right?
We don't have anything. We don't have anything unique to
(00:42):
add to the discussion. No, we are not poli sci majors.
No. But I think it does, it does add
color to who we are as people ifyou don't actually know us
personally. Yeah, yes, yeah, yes.
And and also we I think because we've talked about how we want
this podcast to be a safe space for people to just go and, you
(01:03):
know, be who you are, show up asyou are having an episode about
politics makes that different and not really right, but we
were nervous we. Were nervous, yeah.
We like first day. Oh man, I didn't sleep.
I did. I like woke up having nightmares
that all the people were going to stab me because of the
(01:25):
opinions that I had, even thoughat the end of the day I was just
saying I want people to be nice to each other.
Yeah, I mean, I thought your, I thought your sentiments were
pretty like standard human, likejust be a good person.
Yeah, why try, you know? But but regardless, it happened
and you know, 24 hours after after releasing the episode when
(01:46):
only like 20 people had listened, I think we both were
like. OK, Yeah.
Nobody wants to listen to us. Yeah.
Or nobody wants to listen to a topic another person screaming
into the ether of about politics.
Yeah. Which which says valid, yeah.
But then I was surprised to see our numbers still like at the
end of the week. We're we're you.
(02:07):
Know back to normal. Back to normal so which means
most of you listened. So thank you for listening to
something to a topic that we know some of you expressed you
were not excited to see yes whenyes episode was released, but
you listened anyway. So thank you yeah, and thank you
for engaging anyone that that engaged in any way commented.
(02:30):
Reach out to us directly. We had some texts, we had some
DMS on Insta, we had some peoplein person.
I was surprised about the positive feedback that we got.
Yeah, not because I, I mean, I assume most of our people in our
circle are, are not dissimilar to us, but I still was just I
think we both were. We assumed the worst was.
(02:51):
Going to happen, yeah, yeah. But I wanted to say, I mean, the
really the things that I wanted to say, I wanted to say thank
you one, to those who listened anyway, even when they didn't
want to, because it's hard and heavy and we're all tired of
seeing and hearing and talking about.
Sad and discomfort together. Did it?
Got through it. And then I also wanted to say
(03:14):
thank you for the open discussion.
I wanted to give a shout out, which I will leave anonymous
because I did not get explicit permission from her to use her
name. But I did want to just give a
shout out to to somebody who DM Ed us on Instagram who does not
agree with with a lot of the things that we said in the
episode. And I appreciate the thoughtful
(03:37):
conversation around it. I appreciated the fact that she
was very willing to engage and not escalate, right.
Yeah, we, but we had very calm, very metered discussion about
it. We very clearly have two
different opinions, which will likely not change.
We have had, we just have different life experiences,
right? Like her life experience has has
(03:58):
contributed so much to her opinion and her stance on the
topic. And my life experience and my
work in Women's Health has contributed heavily to my
perspective and my opinion. And we likely will never see eye
to eye. And we had a a thoughtful
dialogue about it and we were respectful of one another and.
(04:20):
Everyone can coexist. Everyone can coexist and I
really appreciated how open she was and willing to like dig into
the discomfort to have a conversation with somebody who
who didn't agree with her. And I didn't feel like she was
trying to change my mind. And I don't think she felt like
I was trying to change her mind.I hope not at least.
(04:42):
But then at the end of the day, like we still are humans and
everything was fine. So anyway, thank you for thank
you. If you're listening, you know
who you are. Thank you for engaging in that
conversation and, and being honest and transparent and just
being yourself, showing up as yourself, 'cause that's what we
want, right? Like that is.
The. Purpose of this podcast is for
you to show up as yourself and take what you need.
(05:02):
So anyway, that's really it. It's just thanks everyone for
for being along on that very temporary journey with us.
And segue into our next upcomingepisode, something a little
lighter. It's just a little bit lighter.
Yeah, just just we're going to pallet cleanse.
We're going to, we're getting back to normal.
(05:22):
Oh, and also you're hearing thistwo weeks later.
I feel like I should probably point that out because we only
record once every two weeks. So like you're, yeah, that's why
you're hearing it on a delay. So that's, that's it.
That's my story. Thanks guys.
Thank you. You're the best.
Now here's some fun stuff. OK, let's get into it so we can
reprieve Nick. Yes, yes, I'm trying.
(05:47):
To think of a question that I can ask that has to do with.
Kick us off. Yeah, but.
We actually talked about. So this is or do you want?
To like, call attention to it and be like we're adding, we're
adding on. Yeah, well, the the the topic
was how we were, how we're beingto ourselves.
Mean being, being mean to yourself.
OK so friends listening this is an add on two bonus a bonus
(06:12):
bonus content for the why why how are we mean to ourselves
yeah episode because I realized hi Tori Sparrow here that I
talked just about myself the whole time that's.
Some good stories I. Created no space for my friend
Karen and I woke up thinking about it.
I think like 3 times I've woken up thinking about it being like.
(06:33):
But I want to hear your story because that's not why we were
doing a podcast. To just talk about Tori just, I
mean, sometimes it's hard to getoff that runaway train when
you're on a, when you're like. When you're, like, uncovering
things, yeah, yeah, I forgot about this in my life.
And like, this is like the thread throughout my life.
I'm like, yeah, but like, shut up.
(06:54):
That's why we have two ears and one mouth, right?
Listen more, talk less. Sure.
I mean, it's hard when you're ona podcast.
That's your podcast. Yeah, you got good stuff to say,
you know. Yeah.
Well, anyway, I want to hear thegood stuff that you have to say
about why you, Kimberly, are mean to yourself.
Like where did it? Start.
Oh, I'm sure it started in my household by.
(07:15):
External forces or just internalby what you saw?
By external forces, yeah. Because you did bring up, you
did bring up your finishing school.
Yes, we did talk about that dainty.
I was AI had to learn how to be a dainty lady.
I think we talked about that. Yeah, because I was like, I
don't know, maybe my mom was afraid I was going to be.
Because we did dabble it, we didtalk about you a little bit.
(07:37):
It wasn't just the Torga show, but at the end, it really was.
I had to dig out those finishingschool pictures.
Yeah, they made me. They literally made me pose on.
It was like a pedestal that was like a miniature marble column
and I had to like. Who has those?
Finishing school I had like stack my hands one on top of the
(07:57):
other and then like stand with one leg like cross to it was
wait, I got to show you. Okay, hold on.
What I'm doing Okay, so she's standing.
Here's something. Here.
Here's our here's our Here's ourmarble pedestal.
Oh God. OK OK, marble pedestal with my
hand stacked. So hand stacked like leaning.
You're like leaning like a Fossedancer I.
(08:19):
Had like a sunflower hat on. Stop 90s.
Well, sunflower hat blossom was hot with like a little cropped
denim vest and I'm like. OK.
But I think I saw that at Fred Meyers the other day.
You. Definitely saw that Fred Meyers
the other day. Yeah.
So yeah, you looked. I have your hands crossed.
Yeah, dainty. I had my dainty yes.
Sick, lean back and your and your ankles crossed.
(08:40):
But you weren't. Yes, because a lady never
crosses her knees. Yeah, but a lady doesn't lean
back like a Fosse dancer. I don't know what to tell you.
Well. 90s, nineties trauma. It was also like modeling
photos, Yeah, you know, so you, you have to be in like a
position. Angular.
Yeah, you gotta be Angular. Yeah, yeah.
OK, so I went how? How old are you?
(09:02):
Elementary school. Oh, that's young.
Could have been early, could have been early middle school,
but I'm pretty sure it was elementary school.
Yeah, great. Yeah, good.
I just was not a dainty child. It was not in my DNA.
No. But I don't know that that that
that experience is necessarily like the catalyst for anything.
(09:24):
I mean, it is a funny one to talk about, 'cause it's just not
me. But, well, also then just like
gymnastics and dance and like everything that I did was about
my body. So there was that.
And like my body being to this for this sport or to this for
this art form, like ballet. Yeah, ballet.
(09:46):
My thighs are too big, my boobs are too big.
Yeah. And did.
Dance come first. Yeah.
And then they were like, your tits are too big.
Yeah, go to be in a be a gymnast.
Shrink your tits. Go be a gymnast.
Your your quads are too big. Yeah, you're perfect for a
gymnast. Yeah, and that was fun.
(10:07):
And then I did cheer, which was great, but also great for my
body type. Yeah, a dainty gal.
Were you a flyer? Of course, yeah.
That was always really impressive.
Have you ever watched Cheer? On Netflix, of course, yes.
So good. So.
Horrible, but. Yeah, but also like, let me tell
you, competition season, that's what it's like.
(10:27):
Shits bananas. I loved it though.
It was. I mean, we also had amazing
coaches most, most of my years of cheer and just like, it
really was a true sport, like weworked our asses off.
And because when you compete, you are, you know, using your
body all the time and all the injuries and just like competing
(10:51):
with injuries all the time. I mean, my, my left ankle will
never be the same because of cheerleading.
It's just perma fucked up because you, because you injure
it once. But if you're in the middle of
competition season and you have 6 competitions left, you can't
go out. I mean, you can.
You can, but you don't. You're a child.
Yeah, you. Have no frontal cortex.
(11:11):
Yet Yeah, well, and also it's like the the competitiveness,
right? Like if you make it on to the
competitive team, what are you going to do, sit out?
Yeah or what are you going to donot compete like that?
Well, cuz the first time I injured my ankle was at a
competition. So then like, how do you, what
am I going to do? Send my team out to do the
routine without me? And I'm like the, the flyer in
the center stunt. So there's just like no center
(11:33):
flyer and they're like pretending like I'm there.
Yeah, so well, yeah, got her. Look at her go, yeah, look at
her flying so high. But I think really my, my, my
inside voice that is so mean comes from I would say all three
(11:55):
of my parents have are very vocal about body shapes, body
types, body image, both their own and each other's and people
around them and strangers. Lots of critical commentary
about bodies my whole life. So and disordered eating and
(12:21):
just like all of the yuck and that and it was everywhere and
they all three exhibited it differently.
But and my my dad's was mostly like shame based.
Like if he, you know, gained weight or if he had a belly, he
would just like say awful thingsabout himself.
Yeah. In front of.
(12:41):
Everybody in front of everybody,yeah.
If I point. Out my shame, no one will see my
shame, yeah. Yeah, my stepmom mostly had
commentary about everybody else.My mom struggled with anorexia
for years in my early childhood,and so that was just always
something that I witnessed. And she, you know, she had a
(13:07):
really hard time when she, I think when the anorexia was
worst, I was probably too young to remember a lot.
But since then she has tried to improve her relationship with
food, but it has her relationship with food has
fluctuated many times over the years.
And so it's just like watching that inconsistency of her
pendulum swinging in various different places because she
(13:27):
can't find homeostasis, which and, and especially for that
generation, I think that's, you know, very common.
I think a lot of our parents hadthat slash have that because
that was such a there was such amessaging of like, that's where
your value lies. And so growing up in that
environment and then also alwaysperforming and being in the
(13:49):
spotlight and dance and cheer and theater and everything is
about your body and your body size and your body shape and
your body proportions got to fit.
In the costume, yeah. Got.
To fit in the costume, got to bea flyer.
Can't. And I never really like, to be
fair, I have always been a petite person.
I have always had the genetics Ihave had.
(14:09):
So like, I don't think I ever really struggled with my weight,
but I was always very aware of how my body presented and I had
a really incredible superpower to be super critical to myself.
But also I think too like your Lex.
Luthor super powerful, being mean to yourself.
Trash. It was a deep cut.
(14:31):
It was it was it was a I'm just going to go shave my head and
become the ultimate super super.I bet you could pull off.
Shaved head, I've thought. About it before I've had times
in my life, Connor. Yeah, I've had times.
I think when I'm feeling like super, super feminist, I'm like,
fuck you, My hair doesn't have anything to do with my identity.
I can shave my head and everything would be fine.
And then I'm like, Oh yeah, shave my.
(14:53):
Head. There was a there was a phase of
years where I just wanted to go to India and go to like one of
the dollar barbers in the streetand just like shave it, fucking
shave it off. Here's a dollar shave my head,
give me the crazy oil scalp massage.
Just like do me up. I might still do it someday.
Can. I be there.
Yeah, of course. Can we record it?
Yes. Let's go to your full Brittany
(15:13):
moment. Yeah, I'm going to go full brat.
Yeah, but you'll do. It like nice in India at least.
Yeah, with oils. Get that it's it's really the
massage that I'm there for like,I just want that I just want
that oiled scout massage yes, bananas.
But I think really the the thingthat fueled my inner critic the
(15:34):
most was critical parents and critical people who didn't have
the skills to teach. So like when we witness our
children doing something that weperceive as wrong, dangerous,
(15:54):
ineffective, whatever, we have atendency to say, hey, don't do
that here's here's an option B here's an alternative here's a
better idea We teach our children right.
Try to Yeah, yeah. When, when we have the
bandwidth, when, when the moment's right.
Nobody's perfect. And I know that.
(16:16):
But my, there was very much an approach of like making a
mistake, like we should have always known better.
Instead of mistakes being OK andbeing a learning opportunity and
being a growing opportunity, theresponse was always like, why
(16:36):
would you do that? And when that's the message that
you hear all the time, the narrative becomes, I do
everything wrong. Why would I do that?
Why would I do that? Yeah.
Why do you do that? And so that became my message is
I would fuck up and I'd be like,Oh my God, Kimberly, why would
you do that? And that was, that's literally
what I would say to myself. Yeah.
Yeah, at the beginning of this episode, yeah.
(16:57):
So that that was, I would say a big part of it was just like
being being raised in an environment where mistakes were
not OK and, and those mistakes being addressed from the
perspective of you should have known better.
Why are you so stupid? And I don't think my parents
think I'm stupid, right? Like, I don't think that I don't
(17:18):
think that any of them would look at at any of the things
I've done and be like, you're stupid.
You're an idiot. Yeah.
But it's still the delivery of the message, right?
Which is. So hard, 'cause I, like, think
about us as parents now, yeah. And like, they weren't trying to
be malicious most likely, right?Your parents.
(17:39):
No, I think they were doing whatthey knew right and so.
Like I just, that's where as a parent, I panic because I'm
like, I'm not trying to be, you know, malicious or whatever, but
you never know what the little brain is going to like take in.
Yeah. And I'm like, this is this the
moment that you're going to talkto your therapist about?
Is this what you're going to talk on your podcast about?
(18:01):
Right. Well, but.
The thing is, I mean, we also, we're never allowed.
I don't want to say we're never allowed to share our experience,
but like, you know, we were never allowed to go to an adult
and be like, it hurt my feelingsthat you talked to me that way.
No. Can you?
Imagine can. You imagine it not going well?
Yes. So that's the difference is that
(18:22):
like with Roslyn, I mean, I started out doing the same
things, doing the same, like whywould you do that?
Having the same why would you dothat reactions.
But but then the difference is Iwould see her reaction on her
tiny little face and then be like, oh, fuck, which then
becomes my exploration into myself, right?
Because then I'm like, that madeher sad.
Oh my God. And then I think about why it
(18:43):
made her sad. And then I'm like, Oh my God,
wait a minute. That's my experience that I'm
watching myself right now in my child, which is a real gut
punch, but also a really good learning moment if you choose to
let it be right. If you choose to like be a
present enough person in the moment to acknowledge that what
you did had a negative impact onsomeone and then accept
(19:04):
responsibility for that. And I think that is something to
that. I feel very grateful for therapy
or personal growth or all of thethings that have contributed to
me being very comfortable with making mistakes, even with my
children and being able to sit down with them and say, you know
what? I fucked up and I'm sorry and
I'm going to do better. And here's what I noticed.
(19:25):
And here's how I saw it affectedyou.
And here's how I would like to make change in the future.
And please tell me your experience.
I I don't think sharing my experience as a child was ever,
I don't think a door was ever open for that.
I don't think that was a option.Yeah, I remember my.
I don't think like. That wasn't like nobody was
(19:48):
doing that, right? Yeah, no.
That I could think about. Well, and I imagine like, Can
you imagine any of the parentingbooks from the 80s saying that
you should sit down with your child and say, what's your
experience like? Like, I don't think you should
just get one of those. Paddles put some holes in it so
it doesn't have windows to make it more.
Aerodynamic. Yeah, just give them a good old
whack they. Won't they won't talk back and
if you swing it? Hard enough it whistles.
(20:11):
Now you're a musical family. Oh.
Come on, Dark. Comedy.
Dark comedy. Child abuse is funny.
It's not. Child abuse is not funny.
Ever. Ever.
Ever ever ever ever. Oh God, I saw the greatest.
It was just like a little clip on, I don't know, probably an
Instagram probably talking abouthow we have laws where if an
(20:34):
adult puts their hands on another adult, they go to jail
and simultaneously an adult putstheir hands on their child and
that's considered parenting. That's the problem.
That's a fucking problem becauseyou know which one is less able
to defend themselves, less able to keep themselves safe are also
(20:59):
like, it is your job to keep your children safe.
So like, that's confusing messaging.
I do this because I. Love you, Yeah.
What vomit, vomit, vomit. But I also remember like there
was a moment where just in like looking at where the messaging
comes from, right? There was a moment when I, when
I came back from New York, the first time was for my brother's
(21:23):
wedding. I had moved to New York and I
don't know, the winter, January,February, I don't remember.
And his wedding was in June. But I had been having symptoms
of endometriosis for probably like 2 years leading up to that.
And they were getting worse. And then I moved to New York and
they like skyrocketed. And I was sick all the time.
(21:45):
And I was always having migraines and I was throwing up
for no reason. And then also, I'm like living
on my own for the first time. I have no fucking money.
I'm like eating Easy Mac becauseit's on clearance at Duane
Reade. That's not gluten free.
No, no, girl, I was putting all of the shit in my body that my
butt. I mean, you should see pictures
of me from college. I am like super pale, dark
circles under my eyes all the time.
I look so unhealthy and I was gaining weight and I am.
(22:11):
I have a very small frame. So when I gain weight, it shows
very quickly. It's like, I think we talked
about this, one of the first episodes.
I think the heaviest I've ever been not pregnant is 130 lbs,
which is only like 15 lbs more than I weigh right now.
But it shows and it shows fast and it shows for me in my face,
my boobs, my stomach. So anyway, I came home that June
(22:34):
for my brother's wedding and my stepmom's father was the first
person I saw walking up and he was I.
I will never forget this. He was standing on the porch
outside of the house and I'm like walking coming home for the
first time after moving 3000 miles away and being away from
everyone I know and I I'm not even in the fucking house yet.
I'm like bags, suitcases, all mystuff.
(22:57):
I walk up and he goes, oh, Kim, you're getting a little chubby,
huh? What?
Yeah, I was 19 years old. Kick that guy.
In the Dick. 19 years old. And then.
And then when I told my parents about it, they excused his
behavior. Well, yeah, because.
They would also have to like step in front of the conflict
(23:17):
and deal with it well and then. It's like, and then that opens
Pandora's box, right? Because that's like, then if
you're defending me, then you have to acknowledge that his
words also hurt you. Yeah.
And. That is something that is really
scary to see and acknowledge, yeah.
But then so. That happened and then what?
A. Bold thing to say.
(23:39):
Oh yeah, and also. Like that man has never been fit
in his in any of the time that Ihave known him.
Kettle. You're black.
Yeah. How you doing, George?
Yeah. What's your excuse?
Come on, Jorge. Come on.
Jorge, you're retired. You get all the fucking time in
the world. Why don't you go take care of
yourself? Also, like, my body is literally
(23:59):
fighting itself. I have two undiagnosed
autoimmune diseases, one of which, well, both of which
really kill people, but like, one more than the other.
And like, nobody was asking if anything was going on with my
health. Nobody was like, have you seen a
doctor? How are you feeling?
Do you feel OK in your body? Do you have symptoms?
Nobody was even remotely curious.
(24:20):
Shelby. Yeah.
Cute. Yeah.
So, you know, that I think had apretty significant impact like
that, that happening and then and then having no defense and
me just like floundering on an island by myself.
And then we got together as a family for one of his birthdays.
(24:42):
I think it was after Roslyn was born, so it was some years later
and but I, I didn't talk to him after that.
I was like, great, you're not a safe person.
I'm going to choose not to put myself around you because I
don't put myself around unsafe people.
Hi. Which my stepmom has always had
a problem with that. And I'm like, I don't know what
(25:03):
to tell you. He's not safe.
He doesn't feel like a safe person to me.
So I'm not going to put myself around him.
But then so we all got together for one of his birthdays.
We were all at the coast, at theOregon coast together.
And it was like everyone in the family.
It was like all the aunts and uncles and cousins and kids.
And you know, there, I don't remember how many people.
There's like 20 people, 30 people.
(25:24):
And I didn't talk to him becauseit's not my job as the child to
go to the grown up who said something awful and try to win
his affection. Like, what kind of messaging is
that? But also for him.
It was a throwaway comment 100%.Yeah, yeah.
(25:46):
I mean like. 100%. Because he's so used to talking
to people that way, the second he.
Said it, it was it was just voice into the wind.
Like I don't want to think aboutthat where it literally changed
your. Experience.
And prior to that, we were very close.
He was like one of my favorite grandparents.
(26:09):
So then we're all at the coast for his birthday and my dad, we
were in the kitchen. My dad came in and he was like,
I don't remember if he, I don't remember how it came up, but it
was something along the lines oflike, what's going on with
George? How are you?
I noticed you're not talking to George.
(26:30):
Or maybe George made a comment was like, why isn't she talking
to me? And so then my dad came and
said, George wants to know you're not talking to him.
I don't remember how it came up,but to my dad brought it up
somehow. And I was like, all he has to do
is acknowledge what he said and apologize.
Like, all he has to do is make afucking repair.
And when I was like, well, he said he already did that.
And I was like, well, he didn't.And to this day, almost 20 years
(26:55):
later, I have not spoken to thatman because he's too fucking
stubborn to apologize. Yeah, yeah.
He's in his 90s. Wow.
George and like every so. Often my stunt won't be like,
oh, why can't you just swatter under the bridge?
Why can't you just let it pass? And I'm like, I don't, I'm not
going to play that game. It's fine that that was that.
That's your approach to things, but I'm not going to play that
(27:17):
game. I have been around unsafe people
my whole life. I'm not going to choose to be
around unsafe people. And also like, I'm going to let
my kids be around that. I'm going to let him talk to my
children that way. 100% no. And this whole, it's like what
you were talking about this whole idea of like what's
family? And you know, like, I don't, I
don't buy that brainwashing for a moment.
(27:37):
I did not choose for him to be my family.
He was handed to me as a family member.
That was not a choice that I made.
So like, it's great that he's there.
And I'm thrilled that my stepmomfeels like she has a good
relationship with her father. That's wonderful for her, but
that's not my experience. And then, you know, like going
(27:58):
to acting school and everything being about your body, literally
everything being about your body.
Going to cattle calls and being yes, yeah, going to cattle calls
and being typed out for your, for literally your physical
appearance. Like standing in a line of 50
people and then going down the line and saying yes, no, no,
yes, no, no, no, yes. Before you can even open your
mouth and sing or dance, before you can show them your talent,
(28:20):
you get typed out strictly basedon how you physically present.
I mean, I mean the Rockettes. Right, they all the way to the
Rockettes. They were like 5/8.
She doesn't 5/8 to 510 fit and if it's between two women who
fits in the costume? Yep, cuz that's cheaper than
anything else. So and I'm like thank God I'm
(28:40):
5/2 and squatty. Yeah, thank God I was never tall
enough to be a chorus girl. I mean, I mean.
I was, I followed the rules whenI lived in New York as like, you
know, Amdo was like, you cannot I go out and audition trash.
So stupid and so I never. Did, and I don't think I had the
nuts to do it anyway like so. I got a job, You got a job.
(29:04):
Yeah, because. Remember, they're like, you
can't work while you go here. And I was like, well, I have to
buy myself food, but I have to eat.
I worked at Urban Outfitters on 72nd Broadway.
Yeah. What a cutie.
So you didn't? Audition.
I never auditioned. In New York, No.
Wow, Look. At you following the rules, I
she's. Listen, she's a Libra, so she
follows the rules to AT always have a girl.
(29:29):
Like when people meet me, they're like, she's probably a
rule breaker. No, Yeah.
That's, but that's Roslyn too. Your your birthday twin.
Yeah, will follow every rule. She'll still rebel in other
ways. She'll still be sassy as fuck,
but she's going to follow the rules.
Whereas your feelings, I'm like,I'll hurt your feelings.
I'll rebel, I'll be sassy and I'm going to break the fucking
(29:51):
rules. Fuck your rules.
Your rules are stupid. I don't care about your
suggestions. I'm going to do what I want.
No, I. Bring this up a a old memory of
theater after in high school, weevery I think it was like senior
year. So I was dating that Andrew guy
and like, I think it was yeah, it was senior year.
(30:14):
We just closed the senior show. They're like, let's go skinny
dipping. I was like.
No, you know. They're like, let's go break the
rules and jump into Lake Washington.
And I was like, I'll go along. And so I went along and we're in
this like dark alley. I don't even some, I don't know,
I can still picture it, but I'm like, where is that?
(30:35):
And but it was a dark alley. Everyone you know in the
darkness strips naked except forme.
I'm literally the only person that does not do it.
I was like no, that looks dumb and cold.
But everyone jumps in. While they are jumping in, I
take all of their clothes and there's one single lamp street
layout and I put their clothes dead, said Dead Red right in the
(30:58):
middle of the light and I stand there with my arms crossed.
I was like, they're they're like, where are our clothes?
I was like, they're over here. Come stand in the spotlight
before phones otherwise. I would probably have filmed the
whole thing because I was just like, and here comes just a
bunch of naked teenagers sopping.
Wet little puppy dogs holding their.
Giblets Yeah. Just walking into the light.
(31:19):
And I was like, how does it feel?
Does it feel good? Do you feel rebellious?
Are you? Proud of yourself?
It's like, who the fuck do I think I am?
Like the police over here, the morality of police have shame on
you. What would your mother say?
You're jumping in there. Who do I think I?
AM and I think it all just is insecurity.
That sounds like something I would have done though.
(31:40):
Yeah, I was just. Like, no, that's stupid.
I mean, I've always been that way where like, let's let's
break the rules. I was like, why are we not happy
here? Oh, see that?
Sounds like me just because it'slike any opportunity to fuck
with people. Like I'm less like that now, but
man, especially in high school, my 20s, forget about it.
Oh see, I've never. Been that.
Oh, I've. Never been.
(32:00):
I'm. I was a Dick.
I was a fucking Dick, yeah. I just was like how can I?
Push as far. As possible without like causing
property damage or anything likethat but like how physical pain.
Yeah, like. How far can I go?
What was the worst? Oh I have no idea.
I mean I I would have like I have to go far back to access
(32:22):
those files, but it'll probably take me a minute like the top.
Of top of the head because of course, I mean, like, I'm trying
to think of what's the worst thing I ever did.
I stole some stuff one time. Oh, like.
Shoplifting. I had like a.
(32:42):
Yeah, a little klepto moment. I had it for not long though
because I like. I did.
It's terrifying. I didn't get caught, but I
almost got caught and I was like, Yep, Nope, that's not for
me. Yeah, Goodbye.
Yeah, like. I did.
I did. It was in New York that.
Wasn't New York. Oh shit.
Oh, shit. You don't want to go to New York
jail? I don't want to go to any jail I
(33:02):
did have. I was I had a friend who loved
to go to Nordstrom and steal stuff.
High school man, I found. Out all of those girls were just
like kids because they don't stop you, no.
So she would literally go in, look at a bunch of stuff on a
rack, drape like a pair of pantsand a sweatshirt and a jacket
over her arm and just walk out. And I was like what the fuck?
People are stuffing their. Bras, yes, with like panties and
(33:24):
stuff from Nordstroms, so insaneand where they would like buy
stuff or know they would steal stuff and then return it.
Yeah, yeah. To ask for make money.
Yeah. So I was not.
Good at that stuff. No, I did it one.
Time my klepto friend, one of the times we went there, she was
like, just do it. And it was like, what's so
upsetting to me and what was upsetting to me at the time too,
was like my mom literally sent me with a blank check and was
(33:46):
like you, I think I went for a pair of lucky jeans.
Yeah, she sent a fucking blank check and and a note like a
handwritten note be like my daughter has permission to use
my check to buy. Like remember.
Yeah, good old days. Do you even have a checkbook?
No. I do not anymore.
God no, we had to get. One for Sawyer's preschool.
They only take checks. That's the.
(34:07):
Most confusing thing I've ever heard in my life.
How do I get a check? So weird.
Yeah. How do you even do that anymore?
Bank will send it to you. I'm sure.
Yeah. So, yeah, it was one of the
times that I was at Nordstrom with my klepto friend, and she
was like, just do just steal something else.
She was like, it's not there. You're not going to get caught.
It's not that big of a deal. And I threw you fully.
Yeah. And I just, like, fully
succumbed to the peer pressure. And I was like, fine.
(34:28):
I remember I took a pair of earrings and I put them in my
pocket and I walked out and I was like, I'm the worst person
in the world. I held onto them.
I literally did not take them out of my pocket.
I left them in the pocket of my jeans and probably just left my
jeans on my bedroom floor for like a week and then went back
to Nordstrom and put them back on the earring rack.
Just like, could not handle. Yeah, could not handle it.
I was like, I'm a horrible person.
(34:50):
That's hilarious. Yeah.
Yeah, that I think. That's the only crazy against
the rules thing I ever did. Oh, see, my, just my, I just
always would fuck with people. Like your story of like, taking
everyone's clothes and standing up.
Like, I would just do stuff likethat.
Like, oh, you think you look so cool, I'm going to make you feel
like an idiot. Yeah.
Yeah, I would do that. Verbally.
(35:11):
Oh, same. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah, all the ways. Yeah, I threw a camera one time.
Oh damn. Because I was so.
Mad. To be fair, I think I was
finding somebody cheating on me at the time.
Well, OK, so sure, I chucked it.Yeah.
Against a wall. Not your camera.
(35:32):
Not my camera. It was my ex's camera.
Oh, it was his. Camera and he was cheating on
me. Oh well, then he fucking
deserved it. Yeah, but.
I also felt like I was like, I remember I was like.
Property damage is not the answer.
It was like. Early college, I mean like
probably I was 1819 years old, something baby Tori.
But like, I remember like chucking it and and being like,
(35:53):
whoa, that was out of character.Like who did that in the moment?
I was like, whoa. And then he came in and like saw
that I did it. And he was like irate.
And I was like, yeah, man, I don't know what to tell you.
That was weird for me. I was.
Just like I. Was just like.
OK, bye. Well, you.
Suck and I broke your camera so I'm out of here.
You have. Slutty girls on your camera.
(36:13):
So I don't know. See you.
Later you probably. I wish I.
YP but. I kept coming back because I'm
an idiot. First loves.
First loves, man. Was that?
What's his face? Mm hmm.
Andrew. Andrew Come.
On well, I can't, I can't speak a little bit.
I also. I don't think we were together.
Like this is where it gets fuzzy.
(36:34):
Oh, sure. Which I saw something on on
Instagram where it was like, it's not that you've blacked it
out, it's that that is your body's response to trauma,
right? And it's a safety mechanism.
And it's a safety. Mechanism, because having to
deal with it all, all the time, we would just, yeah, we wouldn't
be able to function. And because there are lots of
(36:54):
moments of his relationship. I was like, I mean, was I with
him for like 17 years? Like, you know, I was like, we
started here, we ended here. But we were sometimes together,
sometimes not together. I don't know.
And yeah, but this was, I think a time when I wasn't.
So I think it might have even been snooping in his room.
Sure. Sure, and found a.
Camera and he was piercing people's labias.
(37:17):
So like he had labia and he had photos of.
It well, yeah, because. He was putting it in his like he
was building a a portfolio. Portfolio.
Of cuz so that he could go get ajob at a piercing place.
That's at least a great. Excuse whether it was real?
Sure, yeah. Yeah, yeah.
And. Cuz he had other piercings on
there. Pierced himself a lot, you know,
(37:39):
pierced me. Was he one of those people?
That would like Pierce the back of his hand or like Pierce just
random places in high school. He would.
He loved Jackass, sure. A lot of boys.
Did staple his leg. Oh my God.
In like French class. I was like, no.
And So what was so funny is likeold man Tori, where I'm like,
wow, you're a silly kid. Yeah.
I was the. Same way back in high school, I
(38:00):
was like, you look like an idiot.
Yeah. Like, do you not feel that you
look like an idiot right now? You look.
Stupid. You look stupid.
For a smart guy, you look like an idiot.
And I think that was his allure with me is I guess, like, you're
dumb. Yeah, But that was like when he
did his suspension. I like, sat there with my arms
crossed and I was like, you feelgood.
I want to find that I. Want that photo.
(38:22):
I want to see it so bad. I want to see it too.
It's on. It's got to be on Myspace, but
like, where's Myspace? Where is.
Myspace. Somebody bought it.
Justin Timberlake bought it. Did they?
Yeah. I think so.
Come on JT, give it back. Give it back to Tom.
I wish I could see it. I wish I could see it now.
As a parent, I want I would loveto like be like it was just a
little. Posterity.
It is alarming. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
(38:42):
Because I wasn't smiling, right?But I also was there and I was
like, I just remember. And he's just.
Hanging from the ceiling and he's hanging from.
The ceiling, I pushed him like Iremember like he was like, will
you push me? And I was like, sure, man,
whatever. This was weird.
But I'm here to support you, I guess, because that's what you
do when you love people. Question when you say?
You pushed him. You mean like a swing?
(39:04):
Like you made him swing? Yeah.
Yeah, swinging on that makes my.Back hurt to think about I.
Can't imagine it being good for your body.
Giant meat hugs in your skin. I can't.
Imagine that. I can't imagine that, but I love
to the listeners out there, I dolove all the the few of you have
come up to talk to me about it. They're like I people with
(39:26):
their. Stories.
I love it. Please.
Keep it coming, please. Yeah, the.
Stories of. I was shocked at how many people
came to us to be like, Oh my God, I also knew somebody who
did that. Like, I had no idea.
Yeah, now I'm like, who in my life secretly does that?
Someone, probably. Someone.
Probably weird. Sexy people too doing hangy sex
stuff. Sounds uncomfy, Yeah.
(39:49):
I mean, you know. There's just like so many things
involved. Probably no thanks.
Yeah, I know. But anyway, anyway, well, no.
I guess we should go rescue Nick.
I know poor. Nick, Nick, thank you for
watching the kids while we talk about all kinds of things.
All kinds of things. Thanks for.
Playing wiffle ball with two very punchy children.
(40:13):
I mean, so we had a nap, so oh, dots just.
Full of rage and now we're like pushing dinner, which means
we're pushing your bedtime. And now she's going to be even
more. Oh, yeah.
So we should go of a treasure. Yeah, she's a real Peach.
She's going to be full of rage tonight.
How do you reframe when you notice that you're being mean to
yourself? Few things remember that this
(40:39):
too shall pass that that I've never like.
If it's negative self talk, is that what we're talking about?
Being mean to yourself, right, is like I yeah, be like this is
not acknowledging that I am not doing what I want myself to be
(41:00):
doing. Like I set my standard.
I should try my best to speak kindly to myself, right?
And when I'm not not get the fuck off.
I'm just like, I'm like this, you know, even if you're in deep
in if you're deep into it, it's like I I will have moments in my
I'm having that moment today where I'm like, this is I don't
(41:21):
like how I physically look. I don't like how I feel in my
clothes. It's OK because maybe tomorrow I
will feel better. I've never not felt better
eventually. And then also for me, it's that
real time. If I say something negative
about myself, I have to look forsomething positive in that
(41:42):
moment. Man, that one's so.
Powerful. I've also gone as far as to
like, literally look at myself in the mirror and be like,
you're fine. You're doing really good and
like having that when you were literally talking to the person
in front of you and looking her in her.
(42:02):
Eyes and looking her. In her eyes, yeah.
And it's it feels. And that's like when I'm in my
deep, deep sadness, I'll do that.
I've only had to do it a few times in my life.
But. And I think I pulled it from Mel
Robbins. I think she has like a whole
book that she's made billions ofdollars off of talking about
just high 5 yourself every day. And I was like, that sounds
(42:22):
dumb. And then I tried it and there
was something very vulnerable. About it.
Because in that moment, you're like, you look stupid, but it's
like, who cares? I'm the only person in this
bathroom right now. Yeah.
So like who am I performing for?Who me?
And so I'm like, if this is going to make me feel better,
(42:43):
then cool, let's do it. And I will.
I'll put my hand on the mirror and I'll be like you are.
Yeah. And I'm like, you're doing
really good. I have no one.
This is my life. I have no one.
I'm like measuring up to. I have no one.
I love that you said who am I performing for though?
Because you are performing for your own worst critic, right?
(43:03):
Like you, your worst critic is the only one in the room.
Like she's the. Only person that's gonna be like
you look like a fucking idiot. Yeah, and I'd be like, you're
mean well be. Nice.
Yeah, but Victoria, Vic. You're that's a real Vicky move,
girl. And like, she's not a Vicky.
OK, so, you know, I did. I should name my arch my arch
nemesis. Yeah, my inner arch nemesis.
(43:27):
Your inner demons are used to like, beat up.
On little boys who called me Vicki, they'd be like, hell
yeah, Vicki. And I was like, punch you in the
arm. Don't call me that.
Don't call me that. You can call me.
Tori or Victoria? Actually, for a little while I
would refuse Tori, and then for a little other while I would
refuse Victoria. Keep everyone on their toes,
Yeah, you know. Yeah, keep it fresh.
Keep it fresh. So those are like the top, the
(43:51):
top things. Yeah, that I.
Think I do the tools that I have.
Do you feel like? You out like like what am I
trying to ask you? Do you feel like you are able to
recognize fairly immediately when you're going down that path
or does it sometimes take you some time?
No, I. Know right away I know when I've
walked through the threshold. Is it just because like you can
(44:15):
hear yourself in real time? Like you hear those thoughts and
you're like, excuse you or like like how do you catch it?
Or do you not even realize it? I.
Don't know, I just, I noticed patterns, yeah, and I noticed
patterns and and my first question usually is like, are
you on your period you? Know I used to like.
(44:38):
Fight the period so hard. Like my mom would be like, well,
Vic, I was like, I just feel so gross.
And she'd be like, well, when are you?
Are you on your beard? And I was like, screw you, mom,
you're not. I also feel, I mean, I don't
know how it was for you, but I feel like that that can very
easily become such a patronizingquestion, it felt.
Patronizing. I don't think she was trying to
do patronizing. Yeah, yeah, but I do.
(45:00):
I would get I still even God, even now when she and I are in
conversation, I should be like, well, because I'm like I feel so
gross. My body feels big and thick and
she's like, but are you? I was like, shut up, mom.
I'm like you. Don't know me, You don't know
me. And I'm like, she does that.
And so now that's like always myfirst question.
(45:20):
I'm like, are you anywhere around it?
Embracing the more feminine sideof who I am?
Yeah. And that I have hormones and
they are. Ever fluctuating that they
forever. Fluctuate.
And then I mean like, yeah. And asking my questions that I
used to think that if I just felt like shit, it was like, OK,
I'm gonna feel like shit for a few days and now it's like, OK,
(45:42):
did you eat anything? Have you had any water?
Yeah, now there are. So many contributing factors.
How much did you sleep last night?
Yes. How much did you?
Sleep. What did you eat?
Was it super high in sodium? Like are you, you know, like I'm
doing a bulk right now. I've never in my life done a
bulk. And so like I.
Am I'm on a different journey that I've never been on?
And so like, I do feel thick andheavy because she's eating more
(46:06):
because that's stage 1. Of booking, yes.
And so like that's a whole new journey and I'm just like really
being very gentle with myself right now because like, that's
so scary. Like the reprogramming of my
brain that is happening on the daily of like, these are good
things. Like that's a good thing.
You're going to use that power to like something, you know, to
(46:29):
build muscle and all that stuff and like, but old Toria would
have been like, now you're just fat and nobody loves you.
I love how that I love how one goes straight into the next.
Nope, I. Have no doubt.
But also, I mean, like, that's so real to feel like your, your
outward appearance is the thing that makes people love you.
(46:50):
That's such a that's so real. That's such a human.
That's such like a human mindset.
Yeah. Because you know who don't give
a fuck? Animals, they don't look at
themselves and be like, I'm chubby, no one's going to love
me, going to love. Me, in fact, my cat's.
Like, can you make me chubbier, please?
Yeah. We're doing our best anyway.
Yeah, I mean, how about you got some tips and tricks?
(47:13):
I I. Really, I also really like the
like if I'm, if I am in a negative cycle, negative mindset
cycle with myself, I have to find the, the positive.
If my, whatever my negative narrative is, I have to take
that narrative and look at the flip side of it and say what in
this, in this scenario or in this instance, whether it is
like something, a behavior that I'm doing that I'm upset with
(47:35):
myself for or something physicalthat I'm upset with myself for.
Take that thing that you're upset about being negative about
and find a positive thing about it.
Find a way to speak positively to yourself about it.
Man, it really is like that one is really powerful because you
you get to choose your own narrative 100% of the time, 100%
of the time. So if your narrative is
(47:56):
negative, if you trench toward the negative, which we've all
been there, Some of us stay there longer than others.
I was there for 20. Three years, yeah.
You had you get to choose whether you stay there or
whether you move or whether you invert it, right?
I mean, it's that whole gratitude.
Practice, yeah, that, you know, sounds so cliche.
(48:18):
It's the tchotchkes that you andI have talked about in our in
this podcast of like it all sounds like a tchotchke, like
more wine, more problems. But it is when I found yoga and
went into the yoga world, I was just like, oh, I'm talking about
fucking gratitude all the time. So many tchotchkes when you got
up, but also those Trotsky's arereal for reason.
(48:41):
Yeah, they're Trotsky for a reason.
They've stuck. Around longer than most things
because they actually make sense.
Like gratitude practice. It's called a practice because
it is something we have to do onthe daily.
It's a muscle and it's. Not.
And it's never perfect. You cannot.
Grow something that you're not working.
And so it is like you cannot getgood at finding the good if
(49:03):
you've never practiced it before.
And then it is like, I mean, I'mnot, it's not a joke when I say
I was there for 23 years becauselike I was, I was like, expect
the worst, hope for the best, but I'm going to expect the
worst. So then I'm prepared.
And it's like, but what if we didn't?
And we found, we found the good.No matter what happened, it was
(49:25):
like, oh, thank God that happened because otherwise all
these other things would have happened that I don't want.
Yeah, you know, Yes, yeah, yes. But I mean the gratitude starts
with like acknowledging I am nottalking kindly to myself.
And acknowledging that like you deserve the kindness.
Yeah. Amen.
(49:46):
It's that what was that Instagram post that was like
this? It's summer.
It's that time of year where everyone is mean about their
legs like those. Look at those dirty legs that
hold you up every single day. They carry you.
Those are the things that carry you uphills and downhills and
all over the place. Yeah, I have so much gratitude
for my legs. Come on, Queens.
(50:08):
I. Didn't for a long time.
I was really mean to my legs, but look at.
How strong they are, yeah. They didn't look like I wanted
them to look, of course, you know?
And so that was the hard part. Yeah.
They're strong, but I never appreciated it.
We're not told, especially as women, to appreciate the
strength. Yeah, I think it's starting to
shift. But like, we were just told that
(50:30):
women are. Starting to shift it, but like
the, the, the like societal expectation that is rooted in
the male gaze will take some time to follow.
But you know what? We're going to.
We're going to make it, Yeah. But I think, I mean, what's our
other choice? We just, yeah, we just, we just
accept. That we just roll over and
(50:51):
accept that this is the way the world is gonna be forever.
Fuck no. No, I'm just gonna let it be
this way for my daughters. Fuck no.
No. But I think that's the.
Other thing that I, the other tool that I like to deploy when
I'm in that negative mindset is like stepping out of it long
enough to say, where's this message coming from?
Do I, does Kimberly actually feel this way?
(51:12):
Like in my core, in my being, doI actually feel this way?
Or where does this narrative come from?
Does it come from an outside influence?
Does it come from societal expectations?
Does it come from something thatanother person has said to me at
some point in my life, which by the way, isn't outside influence
and I can let it become my internal monologue or not?
(51:34):
And the not letting it is much harder than the letting it.
But like when you can pause for me, when I can pause and step
outside of it and go like, why am I doing this right now?
Why am I standing in front of the mirror and judging my body
right now? If I look at where the root of
that judgement comes from, it doesn't come from myself.
It comes from all the messages that I have received in
different in different places throughout my life.
(51:56):
And like the those external messages have no business being
a part of my internal person. Yeah, but it's far easier to let
those creep in than the positiveones.
Well. Yeah.
And, and understand that like feelings, although important,
are not facts. No, feelings are not facts.
(52:16):
Feelings are not facts. I feel this way.
OK, but what are the actual facts of what is happening?
Yeah, right. That's where, like knowing where
you are in your cycle and all that is like such and was such a
helpful tool for me. Or noticing how food and water
affected my body was important for me.
(52:39):
If I don't move my body daily, what that does to everything in
my life, Yeah, 'cause it's such an important part of my life.
So I think, yeah, realizing thatfeelings are not facts.
No, they're just a guide. They're information, yeah, and
(53:00):
you should always listen to themand follow them and honor them
for what they are and don't suppress them.
Use them as tools. Yeah, use them as tools, but
don't treat them as fact cuz they're not.
They're just signals. They're just messages.
Yeah, great. Go team.
Go team. Hey, we did that.
We did it. I'm.
(53:21):
So quiet on mine so. He he always fixes it
afterwards. Love it.
On that note, what do you do? What do you do?
Listen, dear listener who has good, I bet, I bet some of you
out there has some really good tips.
Yeah. What can we?
Share What can we share via you with other listeners, please and
(53:47):
thank. You please.
Please Yep, you can send. It you can DM us on it's
nothing. It's everything pod.
On insta. On the insta.
Or you can send us a e-mail at itsnothingitseverythingpodcast@gmail.com.
The longest. E-mail address ever in the
history. Or, you know, tell either one of
(54:07):
us. For those of you who know us,
Yep. I do want to hear, I would love
to spread like some actual good information about into the world
especially. I mean, yeah, any any
information, all information is good information.
That's not true. That's not true.
Take that back. That's not true.
But yeah, but. Tips and tricks, you never know
(54:27):
what your tip and trick will, how it will affect people.
Because I'm shocked how something that I think is
insignificant. Yeah, I will say to somebody,
they're like, I've never thoughtabout it that way.
I'm like, well, yeah, I'm so glad that we had this
conversation. So just talk to us, everybody,
OK? Do it.
Great. Thanks.
Keep I oh wait, yeah, OK, great.And see you next Tuesday.
(54:53):
Bye.
Hi friends. I'm Kimberly, I'm Tori, and this
is it's nothing. It's everything.
Hey, we're going to jump right in today because we wanted to
say thank you to all of you who engaged with us around our what
was the name of that magical episode?
Unqualified. Unqualified.
(00:21):
We are. Because we're hella unqualified
to to talk politics. And yeah, we did it.
We did it. We had some feels.
We, I think we're both nervous about putting it out into the
world because we don't one, we don't, there's enough, there are
enough conversations around it, right?
We don't have anything. We don't have anything unique to
(00:42):
add to the discussion. No, we are not poli sci majors.
No. But I think it does, it does add
color to who we are as people ifyou don't actually know us
personally. Yeah, yes, yeah, yes.
And and also we I think because we've talked about how we want
this podcast to be a safe space for people to just go and, you
(01:03):
know, be who you are, show up asyou are having an episode about
politics makes that different and not really right, but we
were nervous we. Were nervous, yeah.
We like first day. Oh man, I didn't sleep.
I did. I like woke up having nightmares
that all the people were going to stab me because of the
(01:25):
opinions that I had, even thoughat the end of the day I was just
saying I want people to be nice to each other.
Yeah, I mean, I thought your, I thought your sentiments were
pretty like standard human, likejust be a good person.
Yeah, why try, you know? But but regardless, it happened
and you know, 24 hours after after releasing the episode when
(01:46):
only like 20 people had listened, I think we both were
like. OK, Yeah.
Nobody wants to listen to us. Yeah.
Or nobody wants to listen to a topic another person screaming
into the ether of about politics.
Yeah. Which which says valid, yeah.
But then I was surprised to see our numbers still like at the
end of the week. We're we're you.
(02:07):
Know back to normal. Back to normal so which means
most of you listened. So thank you for listening to
something to a topic that we know some of you expressed you
were not excited to see yes whenyes episode was released, but
you listened anyway. So thank you yeah, and thank you
for engaging anyone that that engaged in any way commented.
(02:30):
Reach out to us directly. We had some texts, we had some
DMS on Insta, we had some peoplein person.
I was surprised about the positive feedback that we got.
Yeah, not because I, I mean, I assume most of our people in our
circle are, are not dissimilar to us, but I still was just I
think we both were. We assumed the worst was.
(02:51):
Going to happen, yeah, yeah. But I wanted to say, I mean, the
really the things that I wanted to say, I wanted to say thank
you one, to those who listened anyway, even when they didn't
want to, because it's hard and heavy and we're all tired of
seeing and hearing and talking about.
Sad and discomfort together. Did it?
Got through it. And then I also wanted to say
(03:14):
thank you for the open discussion.
I wanted to give a shout out, which I will leave anonymous
because I did not get explicit permission from her to use her
name. But I did want to just give a
shout out to to somebody who DM Ed us on Instagram who does not
agree with with a lot of the things that we said in the
episode. And I appreciate the thoughtful
(03:37):
conversation around it. I appreciated the fact that she
was very willing to engage and not escalate, right.
Yeah, we, but we had very calm, very metered discussion about
it. We very clearly have two
different opinions, which will likely not change.
We have had, we just have different life experiences,
right? Like her life experience has has
(03:58):
contributed so much to her opinion and her stance on the
topic. And my life experience and my
work in Women's Health has contributed heavily to my
perspective and my opinion. And we likely will never see eye
to eye. And we had a a thoughtful
dialogue about it and we were respectful of one another and.
(04:20):
Everyone can coexist. Everyone can coexist and I
really appreciated how open she was and willing to like dig into
the discomfort to have a conversation with somebody who
who didn't agree with her. And I didn't feel like she was
trying to change my mind. And I don't think she felt like
I was trying to change her mind.I hope not at least.
(04:42):
But then at the end of the day, like we still are humans and
everything was fine. So anyway, thank you for thank
you. If you're listening, you know
who you are. Thank you for engaging in that
conversation and, and being honest and transparent and just
being yourself, showing up as yourself, 'cause that's what we
want, right? Like that is.
The. Purpose of this podcast is for
you to show up as yourself and take what you need.
(05:02):
So anyway, that's really it. It's just thanks everyone for
for being along on that very temporary journey with us.
And segue into our next upcomingepisode, something a little
lighter. It's just a little bit lighter.
Yeah, just just we're going to pallet cleanse.
We're going to, we're getting back to normal.
(05:22):
Oh, and also you're hearing thistwo weeks later.
I feel like I should probably point that out because we only
record once every two weeks. So like you're, yeah, that's why
you're hearing it on a delay. So that's, that's it.
That's my story. Thanks guys.
Thank you. You're the best.
Now here's some fun stuff. OK, let's get into it so we can
reprieve Nick. Yes, yes, I'm trying.
(05:47):
To think of a question that I can ask that has to do with.
Kick us off. Yeah, but.
We actually talked about. So this is or do you want?
To like, call attention to it and be like we're adding, we're
adding on. Yeah, well, the the the topic
was how we were, how we're beingto ourselves.
Mean being, being mean to yourself.
OK so friends listening this is an add on two bonus a bonus
(06:12):
bonus content for the why why how are we mean to ourselves
yeah episode because I realized hi Tori Sparrow here that I
talked just about myself the whole time that's.
Some good stories I. Created no space for my friend
Karen and I woke up thinking about it.
I think like 3 times I've woken up thinking about it being like.
(06:33):
But I want to hear your story because that's not why we were
doing a podcast. To just talk about Tori just, I
mean, sometimes it's hard to getoff that runaway train when
you're on a, when you're like. When you're, like, uncovering
things, yeah, yeah, I forgot about this in my life.
And like, this is like the thread throughout my life.
I'm like, yeah, but like, shut up.
(06:54):
That's why we have two ears and one mouth, right?
Listen more, talk less. Sure.
I mean, it's hard when you're ona podcast.
That's your podcast. Yeah, you got good stuff to say,
you know. Yeah.
Well, anyway, I want to hear thegood stuff that you have to say
about why you, Kimberly, are mean to yourself.
Like where did it? Start.
Oh, I'm sure it started in my household by.
(07:15):
External forces or just internalby what you saw?
By external forces, yeah. Because you did bring up, you
did bring up your finishing school.
Yes, we did talk about that dainty.
I was AI had to learn how to be a dainty lady.
I think we talked about that. Yeah, because I was like, I
don't know, maybe my mom was afraid I was going to be.
Because we did dabble it, we didtalk about you a little bit.
(07:37):
It wasn't just the Torga show, but at the end, it really was.
I had to dig out those finishingschool pictures.
Yeah, they made me. They literally made me pose on.
It was like a pedestal that was like a miniature marble column
and I had to like. Who has those?
Finishing school I had like stack my hands one on top of the
(07:57):
other and then like stand with one leg like cross to it was
wait, I got to show you. Okay, hold on.
What I'm doing Okay, so she's standing.
Here's something. Here.
Here's our here's our Here's ourmarble pedestal.
Oh God. OK OK, marble pedestal with my
hand stacked. So hand stacked like leaning.
You're like leaning like a Fossedancer I.
(08:19):
Had like a sunflower hat on. Stop 90s.
Well, sunflower hat blossom was hot with like a little cropped
denim vest and I'm like. OK.
But I think I saw that at Fred Meyers the other day.
You. Definitely saw that Fred Meyers
the other day. Yeah.
So yeah, you looked. I have your hands crossed.
Yeah, dainty. I had my dainty yes.
Sick, lean back and your and your ankles crossed.
(08:40):
But you weren't. Yes, because a lady never
crosses her knees. Yeah, but a lady doesn't lean
back like a Fosse dancer. I don't know what to tell you.
Well. 90s, nineties trauma. It was also like modeling
photos, Yeah, you know, so you, you have to be in like a
position. Angular.
Yeah, you gotta be Angular. Yeah, yeah.
OK, so I went how? How old are you?
(09:02):
Elementary school. Oh, that's young.
Could have been early, could have been early middle school,
but I'm pretty sure it was elementary school.
Yeah, great. Yeah, good.
I just was not a dainty child. It was not in my DNA.
No. But I don't know that that that
that experience is necessarily like the catalyst for anything.
(09:24):
I mean, it is a funny one to talk about, 'cause it's just not
me. But, well, also then just like
gymnastics and dance and like everything that I did was about
my body. So there was that.
And like my body being to this for this sport or to this for
this art form, like ballet. Yeah, ballet.
(09:46):
My thighs are too big, my boobs are too big.
Yeah. And did.
Dance come first. Yeah.
And then they were like, your tits are too big.
Yeah, go to be in a be a gymnast.
Shrink your tits. Go be a gymnast.
Your your quads are too big. Yeah, you're perfect for a
gymnast. Yeah, and that was fun.
(10:07):
And then I did cheer, which was great, but also great for my
body type. Yeah, a dainty gal.
Were you a flyer? Of course, yeah.
That was always really impressive.
Have you ever watched Cheer? On Netflix, of course, yes.
So good. So.
Horrible, but. Yeah, but also like, let me tell
you, competition season, that's what it's like.
(10:27):
Shits bananas. I loved it though.
It was. I mean, we also had amazing
coaches most, most of my years of cheer and just like, it
really was a true sport, like weworked our asses off.
And because when you compete, you are, you know, using your
body all the time and all the injuries and just like competing
(10:51):
with injuries all the time. I mean, my, my left ankle will
never be the same because of cheerleading.
It's just perma fucked up because you, because you injure
it once. But if you're in the middle of
competition season and you have 6 competitions left, you can't
go out. I mean, you can.
You can, but you don't. You're a child.
Yeah, you. Have no frontal cortex.
(11:11):
Yet Yeah, well, and also it's like the the competitiveness,
right? Like if you make it on to the
competitive team, what are you going to do, sit out?
Yeah or what are you going to donot compete like that?
Well, cuz the first time I injured my ankle was at a
competition. So then like, how do you, what
am I going to do? Send my team out to do the
routine without me? And I'm like the, the flyer in
the center stunt. So there's just like no center
(11:33):
flyer and they're like pretending like I'm there.
Yeah, so well, yeah, got her. Look at her go, yeah, look at
her flying so high. But I think really my, my, my
inside voice that is so mean comes from I would say all three
(11:55):
of my parents have are very vocal about body shapes, body
types, body image, both their own and each other's and people
around them and strangers. Lots of critical commentary
about bodies my whole life. So and disordered eating and
(12:21):
just like all of the yuck and that and it was everywhere and
they all three exhibited it differently.
But and my my dad's was mostly like shame based.
Like if he, you know, gained weight or if he had a belly, he
would just like say awful thingsabout himself.
Yeah. In front of.
(12:41):
Everybody in front of everybody,yeah.
If I point. Out my shame, no one will see my
shame, yeah. Yeah, my stepmom mostly had
commentary about everybody else.My mom struggled with anorexia
for years in my early childhood,and so that was just always
something that I witnessed. And she, you know, she had a
(13:07):
really hard time when she, I think when the anorexia was
worst, I was probably too young to remember a lot.
But since then she has tried to improve her relationship with
food, but it has her relationship with food has
fluctuated many times over the years.
And so it's just like watching that inconsistency of her
pendulum swinging in various different places because she
(13:27):
can't find homeostasis, which and, and especially for that
generation, I think that's, you know, very common.
I think a lot of our parents hadthat slash have that because
that was such a there was such amessaging of like, that's where
your value lies. And so growing up in that
environment and then also alwaysperforming and being in the
(13:49):
spotlight and dance and cheer and theater and everything is
about your body and your body size and your body shape and
your body proportions got to fit.
In the costume, yeah. Got.
To fit in the costume, got to bea flyer.
Can't. And I never really like, to be
fair, I have always been a petite person.
I have always had the genetics Ihave had.
(14:09):
So like, I don't think I ever really struggled with my weight,
but I was always very aware of how my body presented and I had
a really incredible superpower to be super critical to myself.
But also I think too like your Lex.
Luthor super powerful, being mean to yourself.
Trash. It was a deep cut.
(14:31):
It was it was it was a I'm just going to go shave my head and
become the ultimate super super.I bet you could pull off.
Shaved head, I've thought. About it before I've had times
in my life, Connor. Yeah, I've had times.
I think when I'm feeling like super, super feminist, I'm like,
fuck you, My hair doesn't have anything to do with my identity.
I can shave my head and everything would be fine.
And then I'm like, Oh yeah, shave my.
(14:53):
Head. There was a there was a phase of
years where I just wanted to go to India and go to like one of
the dollar barbers in the streetand just like shave it, fucking
shave it off. Here's a dollar shave my head,
give me the crazy oil scalp massage.
Just like do me up. I might still do it someday.
Can. I be there.
Yeah, of course. Can we record it?
Yes. Let's go to your full Brittany
(15:13):
moment. Yeah, I'm going to go full brat.
Yeah, but you'll do. It like nice in India at least.
Yeah, with oils. Get that it's it's really the
massage that I'm there for like,I just want that I just want
that oiled scout massage yes, bananas.
But I think really the the thingthat fueled my inner critic the
(15:34):
most was critical parents and critical people who didn't have
the skills to teach. So like when we witness our
children doing something that weperceive as wrong, dangerous,
(15:54):
ineffective, whatever, we have atendency to say, hey, don't do
that here's here's an option B here's an alternative here's a
better idea We teach our children right.
Try to Yeah, yeah. When, when we have the
bandwidth, when, when the moment's right.
Nobody's perfect. And I know that.
(16:16):
But my, there was very much an approach of like making a
mistake, like we should have always known better.
Instead of mistakes being OK andbeing a learning opportunity and
being a growing opportunity, theresponse was always like, why
(16:36):
would you do that? And when that's the message that
you hear all the time, the narrative becomes, I do
everything wrong. Why would I do that?
Why would I do that? Yeah.
Why do you do that? And so that became my message is
I would fuck up and I'd be like,Oh my God, Kimberly, why would
you do that? And that was, that's literally
what I would say to myself. Yeah.
Yeah, at the beginning of this episode, yeah.
(16:57):
So that that was, I would say a big part of it was just like
being being raised in an environment where mistakes were
not OK and, and those mistakes being addressed from the
perspective of you should have known better.
Why are you so stupid? And I don't think my parents
think I'm stupid, right? Like, I don't think that I don't
(17:18):
think that any of them would look at at any of the things
I've done and be like, you're stupid.
You're an idiot. Yeah.
But it's still the delivery of the message, right?
Which is. So hard, 'cause I, like, think
about us as parents now, yeah. And like, they weren't trying to
be malicious most likely, right?Your parents.
(17:39):
No, I think they were doing whatthey knew right and so.
Like I just, that's where as a parent, I panic because I'm
like, I'm not trying to be, you know, malicious or whatever, but
you never know what the little brain is going to like take in.
Yeah. And I'm like, this is this the
moment that you're going to talkto your therapist about?
Is this what you're going to talk on your podcast about?
(18:01):
Right. Well, but.
The thing is, I mean, we also, we're never allowed.
I don't want to say we're never allowed to share our experience,
but like, you know, we were never allowed to go to an adult
and be like, it hurt my feelingsthat you talked to me that way.
No. Can you?
Imagine can. You imagine it not going well?
Yes. So that's the difference is that
(18:22):
like with Roslyn, I mean, I started out doing the same
things, doing the same, like whywould you do that?
Having the same why would you dothat reactions.
But but then the difference is Iwould see her reaction on her
tiny little face and then be like, oh, fuck, which then
becomes my exploration into myself, right?
Because then I'm like, that madeher sad.
Oh my God. And then I think about why it
(18:43):
made her sad. And then I'm like, Oh my God,
wait a minute. That's my experience that I'm
watching myself right now in my child, which is a real gut
punch, but also a really good learning moment if you choose to
let it be right. If you choose to like be a
present enough person in the moment to acknowledge that what
you did had a negative impact onsomeone and then accept
(19:04):
responsibility for that. And I think that is something to
that. I feel very grateful for therapy
or personal growth or all of thethings that have contributed to
me being very comfortable with making mistakes, even with my
children and being able to sit down with them and say, you know
what? I fucked up and I'm sorry and
I'm going to do better. And here's what I noticed.
(19:25):
And here's how I saw it affectedyou.
And here's how I would like to make change in the future.
And please tell me your experience.
I I don't think sharing my experience as a child was ever,
I don't think a door was ever open for that.
I don't think that was a option.Yeah, I remember my.
I don't think like. That wasn't like nobody was
(19:48):
doing that, right? Yeah, no.
That I could think about. Well, and I imagine like, Can
you imagine any of the parentingbooks from the 80s saying that
you should sit down with your child and say, what's your
experience like? Like, I don't think you should
just get one of those. Paddles put some holes in it so
it doesn't have windows to make it more.
Aerodynamic. Yeah, just give them a good old
whack they. Won't they won't talk back and
if you swing it? Hard enough it whistles.
(20:11):
Now you're a musical family. Oh.
Come on, Dark. Comedy.
Dark comedy. Child abuse is funny.
It's not. Child abuse is not funny.
Ever. Ever.
Ever ever ever ever. Oh God, I saw the greatest.
It was just like a little clip on, I don't know, probably an
Instagram probably talking abouthow we have laws where if an
(20:34):
adult puts their hands on another adult, they go to jail
and simultaneously an adult putstheir hands on their child and
that's considered parenting. That's the problem.
That's a fucking problem becauseyou know which one is less able
to defend themselves, less able to keep themselves safe are also
(20:59):
like, it is your job to keep your children safe.
So like, that's confusing messaging.
I do this because I. Love you, Yeah.
What vomit, vomit, vomit. But I also remember like there
was a moment where just in like looking at where the messaging
comes from, right? There was a moment when I, when
I came back from New York, the first time was for my brother's
(21:23):
wedding. I had moved to New York and I
don't know, the winter, January,February, I don't remember.
And his wedding was in June. But I had been having symptoms
of endometriosis for probably like 2 years leading up to that.
And they were getting worse. And then I moved to New York and
they like skyrocketed. And I was sick all the time.
(21:45):
And I was always having migraines and I was throwing up
for no reason. And then also, I'm like living
on my own for the first time. I have no fucking money.
I'm like eating Easy Mac becauseit's on clearance at Duane
Reade. That's not gluten free.
No, no, girl, I was putting all of the shit in my body that my
butt. I mean, you should see pictures
of me from college. I am like super pale, dark
circles under my eyes all the time.
I look so unhealthy and I was gaining weight and I am.
(22:11):
I have a very small frame. So when I gain weight, it shows
very quickly. It's like, I think we talked
about this, one of the first episodes.
I think the heaviest I've ever been not pregnant is 130 lbs,
which is only like 15 lbs more than I weigh right now.
But it shows and it shows fast and it shows for me in my face,
my boobs, my stomach. So anyway, I came home that June
(22:34):
for my brother's wedding and my stepmom's father was the first
person I saw walking up and he was I.
I will never forget this. He was standing on the porch
outside of the house and I'm like walking coming home for the
first time after moving 3000 miles away and being away from
everyone I know and I I'm not even in the fucking house yet.
I'm like bags, suitcases, all mystuff.
(22:57):
I walk up and he goes, oh, Kim, you're getting a little chubby,
huh? What?
Yeah, I was 19 years old. Kick that guy.
In the Dick. 19 years old. And then.
And then when I told my parents about it, they excused his
behavior. Well, yeah, because.
They would also have to like step in front of the conflict
(23:17):
and deal with it well and then. It's like, and then that opens
Pandora's box, right? Because that's like, then if
you're defending me, then you have to acknowledge that his
words also hurt you. Yeah.
And. That is something that is really
scary to see and acknowledge, yeah.
But then so. That happened and then what?
A. Bold thing to say.
(23:39):
Oh yeah, and also. Like that man has never been fit
in his in any of the time that Ihave known him.
Kettle. You're black.
Yeah. How you doing, George?
Yeah. What's your excuse?
Come on, Jorge. Come on.
Jorge, you're retired. You get all the fucking time in
the world. Why don't you go take care of
yourself? Also, like, my body is literally
(23:59):
fighting itself. I have two undiagnosed
autoimmune diseases, one of which, well, both of which
really kill people, but like, one more than the other.
And like, nobody was asking if anything was going on with my
health. Nobody was like, have you seen a
doctor? How are you feeling?
Do you feel OK in your body? Do you have symptoms?
Nobody was even remotely curious.
(24:20):
Shelby. Yeah.
Cute. Yeah.
So, you know, that I think had apretty significant impact like
that, that happening and then and then having no defense and
me just like floundering on an island by myself.
And then we got together as a family for one of his birthdays.
(24:42):
I think it was after Roslyn was born, so it was some years later
and but I, I didn't talk to him after that.
I was like, great, you're not a safe person.
I'm going to choose not to put myself around you because I
don't put myself around unsafe people.
Hi. Which my stepmom has always had
a problem with that. And I'm like, I don't know what
(25:03):
to tell you. He's not safe.
He doesn't feel like a safe person to me.
So I'm not going to put myself around him.
But then so we all got together for one of his birthdays.
We were all at the coast, at theOregon coast together.
And it was like everyone in the family.
It was like all the aunts and uncles and cousins and kids.
And you know, there, I don't remember how many people.
There's like 20 people, 30 people.
(25:24):
And I didn't talk to him becauseit's not my job as the child to
go to the grown up who said something awful and try to win
his affection. Like, what kind of messaging is
that? But also for him.
It was a throwaway comment 100%.Yeah, yeah.
(25:46):
I mean like. 100%. Because he's so used to talking
to people that way, the second he.
Said it, it was it was just voice into the wind.
Like I don't want to think aboutthat where it literally changed
your. Experience.
And prior to that, we were very close.
He was like one of my favorite grandparents.
(26:09):
So then we're all at the coast for his birthday and my dad, we
were in the kitchen. My dad came in and he was like,
I don't remember if he, I don't remember how it came up, but it
was something along the lines oflike, what's going on with
George? How are you?
I noticed you're not talking to George.
(26:30):
Or maybe George made a comment was like, why isn't she talking
to me? And so then my dad came and
said, George wants to know you're not talking to him.
I don't remember how it came up,but to my dad brought it up
somehow. And I was like, all he has to do
is acknowledge what he said and apologize.
Like, all he has to do is make afucking repair.
And when I was like, well, he said he already did that.
And I was like, well, he didn't.And to this day, almost 20 years
(26:55):
later, I have not spoken to thatman because he's too fucking
stubborn to apologize. Yeah, yeah.
He's in his 90s. Wow.
George and like every so. Often my stunt won't be like,
oh, why can't you just swatter under the bridge?
Why can't you just let it pass? And I'm like, I don't, I'm not
going to play that game. It's fine that that was that.
That's your approach to things, but I'm not going to play that
(27:17):
game. I have been around unsafe people
my whole life. I'm not going to choose to be
around unsafe people. And also like, I'm going to let
my kids be around that. I'm going to let him talk to my
children that way. 100% no. And this whole, it's like what
you were talking about this whole idea of like what's
family? And you know, like, I don't, I
don't buy that brainwashing for a moment.
(27:37):
I did not choose for him to be my family.
He was handed to me as a family member.
That was not a choice that I made.
So like, it's great that he's there.
And I'm thrilled that my stepmomfeels like she has a good
relationship with her father. That's wonderful for her, but
that's not my experience. And then, you know, like going
(27:58):
to acting school and everything being about your body, literally
everything being about your body.
Going to cattle calls and being yes, yeah, going to cattle calls
and being typed out for your, for literally your physical
appearance. Like standing in a line of 50
people and then going down the line and saying yes, no, no,
yes, no, no, no, yes. Before you can even open your
mouth and sing or dance, before you can show them your talent,
(28:20):
you get typed out strictly basedon how you physically present.
I mean, I mean the Rockettes. Right, they all the way to the
Rockettes. They were like 5/8.
She doesn't 5/8 to 510 fit and if it's between two women who
fits in the costume? Yep, cuz that's cheaper than
anything else. So and I'm like thank God I'm
(28:40):
5/2 and squatty. Yeah, thank God I was never tall
enough to be a chorus girl. I mean, I mean.
I was, I followed the rules whenI lived in New York as like, you
know, Amdo was like, you cannot I go out and audition trash.
So stupid and so I never. Did, and I don't think I had the
nuts to do it anyway like so. I got a job, You got a job.
(29:04):
Yeah, because. Remember, they're like, you
can't work while you go here. And I was like, well, I have to
buy myself food, but I have to eat.
I worked at Urban Outfitters on 72nd Broadway.
Yeah. What a cutie.
So you didn't? Audition.
I never auditioned. In New York, No.
Wow, Look. At you following the rules, I
she's. Listen, she's a Libra, so she
follows the rules to AT always have a girl.
(29:29):
Like when people meet me, they're like, she's probably a
rule breaker. No, Yeah.
That's, but that's Roslyn too. Your your birthday twin.
Yeah, will follow every rule. She'll still rebel in other
ways. She'll still be sassy as fuck,
but she's going to follow the rules.
Whereas your feelings, I'm like,I'll hurt your feelings.
I'll rebel, I'll be sassy and I'm going to break the fucking
(29:51):
rules. Fuck your rules.
Your rules are stupid. I don't care about your
suggestions. I'm going to do what I want.
No, I. Bring this up a a old memory of
theater after in high school, weevery I think it was like senior
year. So I was dating that Andrew guy
and like, I think it was yeah, it was senior year.
(30:14):
We just closed the senior show. They're like, let's go skinny
dipping. I was like.
No, you know. They're like, let's go break the
rules and jump into Lake Washington.
And I was like, I'll go along. And so I went along and we're in
this like dark alley. I don't even some, I don't know,
I can still picture it, but I'm like, where is that?
(30:35):
And but it was a dark alley. Everyone you know in the
darkness strips naked except forme.
I'm literally the only person that does not do it.
I was like no, that looks dumb and cold.
But everyone jumps in. While they are jumping in, I
take all of their clothes and there's one single lamp street
layout and I put their clothes dead, said Dead Red right in the
(30:58):
middle of the light and I stand there with my arms crossed.
I was like, they're they're like, where are our clothes?
I was like, they're over here. Come stand in the spotlight
before phones otherwise. I would probably have filmed the
whole thing because I was just like, and here comes just a
bunch of naked teenagers sopping.
Wet little puppy dogs holding their.
Giblets Yeah. Just walking into the light.
(31:19):
And I was like, how does it feel?
Does it feel good? Do you feel rebellious?
Are you? Proud of yourself?
It's like, who the fuck do I think I am?
Like the police over here, the morality of police have shame on
you. What would your mother say?
You're jumping in there. Who do I think I?
AM and I think it all just is insecurity.
That sounds like something I would have done though.
(31:40):
Yeah, I was just. Like, no, that's stupid.
I mean, I've always been that way where like, let's let's
break the rules. I was like, why are we not happy
here? Oh, see that?
Sounds like me just because it'slike any opportunity to fuck
with people. Like I'm less like that now, but
man, especially in high school, my 20s, forget about it.
Oh see, I've never. Been that.
Oh, I've. Never been.
(32:00):
I'm. I was a Dick.
I was a fucking Dick, yeah. I just was like how can I?
Push as far. As possible without like causing
property damage or anything likethat but like how physical pain.
Yeah, like. How far can I go?
What was the worst? Oh I have no idea.
I mean I I would have like I have to go far back to access
(32:22):
those files, but it'll probably take me a minute like the top.
Of top of the head because of course, I mean, like, I'm trying
to think of what's the worst thing I ever did.
I stole some stuff one time. Oh, like.
Shoplifting. I had like a.
(32:42):
Yeah, a little klepto moment. I had it for not long though
because I like. I did.
It's terrifying. I didn't get caught, but I
almost got caught and I was like, Yep, Nope, that's not for
me. Yeah, Goodbye.
Yeah, like. I did.
I did. It was in New York that.
Wasn't New York. Oh shit.
Oh, shit. You don't want to go to New York
jail? I don't want to go to any jail I
(33:02):
did have. I was I had a friend who loved
to go to Nordstrom and steal stuff.
High school man, I found. Out all of those girls were just
like kids because they don't stop you, no.
So she would literally go in, look at a bunch of stuff on a
rack, drape like a pair of pantsand a sweatshirt and a jacket
over her arm and just walk out. And I was like what the fuck?
People are stuffing their. Bras, yes, with like panties and
(33:24):
stuff from Nordstroms, so insaneand where they would like buy
stuff or know they would steal stuff and then return it.
Yeah, yeah. To ask for make money.
Yeah. So I was not.
Good at that stuff. No, I did it one.
Time my klepto friend, one of the times we went there, she was
like, just do it. And it was like, what's so
upsetting to me and what was upsetting to me at the time too,
was like my mom literally sent me with a blank check and was
(33:46):
like you, I think I went for a pair of lucky jeans.
Yeah, she sent a fucking blank check and and a note like a
handwritten note be like my daughter has permission to use
my check to buy. Like remember.
Yeah, good old days. Do you even have a checkbook?
No. I do not anymore.
God no, we had to get. One for Sawyer's preschool.
They only take checks. That's the.
(34:07):
Most confusing thing I've ever heard in my life.
How do I get a check? So weird.
Yeah. How do you even do that anymore?
Bank will send it to you. I'm sure.
Yeah. So, yeah, it was one of the
times that I was at Nordstrom with my klepto friend, and she
was like, just do just steal something else.
She was like, it's not there. You're not going to get caught.
It's not that big of a deal. And I threw you fully.
Yeah. And I just, like, fully
succumbed to the peer pressure. And I was like, fine.
(34:28):
I remember I took a pair of earrings and I put them in my
pocket and I walked out and I was like, I'm the worst person
in the world. I held onto them.
I literally did not take them out of my pocket.
I left them in the pocket of my jeans and probably just left my
jeans on my bedroom floor for like a week and then went back
to Nordstrom and put them back on the earring rack.
Just like, could not handle. Yeah, could not handle it.
I was like, I'm a horrible person.
(34:50):
That's hilarious. Yeah.
Yeah, that I think. That's the only crazy against
the rules thing I ever did. Oh, see, my, just my, I just
always would fuck with people. Like your story of like, taking
everyone's clothes and standing up.
Like, I would just do stuff likethat.
Like, oh, you think you look so cool, I'm going to make you feel
like an idiot. Yeah.
Yeah, I would do that. Verbally.
(35:11):
Oh, same. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah, all the ways. Yeah, I threw a camera one time.
Oh damn. Because I was so.
Mad. To be fair, I think I was
finding somebody cheating on me at the time.
Well, OK, so sure, I chucked it.Yeah.
Against a wall. Not your camera.
(35:32):
Not my camera. It was my ex's camera.
Oh, it was his. Camera and he was cheating on
me. Oh well, then he fucking
deserved it. Yeah, but.
I also felt like I was like, I remember I was like.
Property damage is not the answer.
It was like. Early college, I mean like
probably I was 1819 years old, something baby Tori.
But like, I remember like chucking it and and being like,
(35:53):
whoa, that was out of character.Like who did that in the moment?
I was like, whoa. And then he came in and like saw
that I did it. And he was like irate.
And I was like, yeah, man, I don't know what to tell you.
That was weird for me. I was.
Just like I. Was just like.
OK, bye. Well, you.
Suck and I broke your camera so I'm out of here.
You have. Slutty girls on your camera.
(36:13):
So I don't know. See you.
Later you probably. I wish I.
YP but. I kept coming back because I'm
an idiot. First loves.
First loves, man. Was that?
What's his face? Mm hmm.
Andrew. Andrew Come.
On well, I can't, I can't speak a little bit.
I also. I don't think we were together.
Like this is where it gets fuzzy.
(36:34):
Oh, sure. Which I saw something on on
Instagram where it was like, it's not that you've blacked it
out, it's that that is your body's response to trauma,
right? And it's a safety mechanism.
And it's a safety. Mechanism, because having to
deal with it all, all the time, we would just, yeah, we wouldn't
be able to function. And because there are lots of
(36:54):
moments of his relationship. I was like, I mean, was I with
him for like 17 years? Like, you know, I was like, we
started here, we ended here. But we were sometimes together,
sometimes not together. I don't know.
And yeah, but this was, I think a time when I wasn't.
So I think it might have even been snooping in his room.
Sure. Sure, and found a.
Camera and he was piercing people's labias.
(37:17):
So like he had labia and he had photos of.
It well, yeah, because. He was putting it in his like he
was building a a portfolio. Portfolio.
Of cuz so that he could go get ajob at a piercing place.
That's at least a great. Excuse whether it was real?
Sure, yeah. Yeah, yeah.
And. Cuz he had other piercings on
there. Pierced himself a lot, you know,
(37:39):
pierced me. Was he one of those people?
That would like Pierce the back of his hand or like Pierce just
random places in high school. He would.
He loved Jackass, sure. A lot of boys.
Did staple his leg. Oh my God.
In like French class. I was like, no.
And So what was so funny is likeold man Tori, where I'm like,
wow, you're a silly kid. Yeah.
I was the. Same way back in high school, I
(38:00):
was like, you look like an idiot.
Yeah. Like, do you not feel that you
look like an idiot right now? You look.
Stupid. You look stupid.
For a smart guy, you look like an idiot.
And I think that was his allure with me is I guess, like, you're
dumb. Yeah, But that was like when he
did his suspension. I like, sat there with my arms
crossed and I was like, you feelgood.
I want to find that I. Want that photo.
(38:22):
I want to see it so bad. I want to see it too.
It's on. It's got to be on Myspace, but
like, where's Myspace? Where is.
Myspace. Somebody bought it.
Justin Timberlake bought it. Did they?
Yeah. I think so.
Come on JT, give it back. Give it back to Tom.
I wish I could see it. I wish I could see it now.
As a parent, I want I would loveto like be like it was just a
little. Posterity.
It is alarming. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
(38:42):
Because I wasn't smiling, right?But I also was there and I was
like, I just remember. And he's just.
Hanging from the ceiling and he's hanging from.
The ceiling, I pushed him like Iremember like he was like, will
you push me? And I was like, sure, man,
whatever. This was weird.
But I'm here to support you, I guess, because that's what you
do when you love people. Question when you say?
You pushed him. You mean like a swing?
(39:04):
Like you made him swing? Yeah.
Yeah, swinging on that makes my.Back hurt to think about I.
Can't imagine it being good for your body.
Giant meat hugs in your skin. I can't.
Imagine that. I can't imagine that, but I love
to the listeners out there, I dolove all the the few of you have
come up to talk to me about it. They're like I people with
(39:26):
their. Stories.
I love it. Please.
Keep it coming, please. Yeah, the.
Stories of. I was shocked at how many people
came to us to be like, Oh my God, I also knew somebody who
did that. Like, I had no idea.
Yeah, now I'm like, who in my life secretly does that?
Someone, probably. Someone.
Probably weird. Sexy people too doing hangy sex
stuff. Sounds uncomfy, Yeah.
(39:49):
I mean, you know. There's just like so many things
involved. Probably no thanks.
Yeah, I know. But anyway, anyway, well, no.
I guess we should go rescue Nick.
I know poor. Nick, Nick, thank you for
watching the kids while we talk about all kinds of things.
All kinds of things. Thanks for.
Playing wiffle ball with two very punchy children.
(40:13):
I mean, so we had a nap, so oh, dots just.
Full of rage and now we're like pushing dinner, which means
we're pushing your bedtime. And now she's going to be even
more. Oh, yeah.
So we should go of a treasure. Yeah, she's a real Peach.
She's going to be full of rage tonight.
How do you reframe when you notice that you're being mean to
yourself? Few things remember that this
(40:39):
too shall pass that that I've never like.
If it's negative self talk, is that what we're talking about?
Being mean to yourself, right, is like I yeah, be like this is
not acknowledging that I am not doing what I want myself to be
(41:00):
doing. Like I set my standard.
I should try my best to speak kindly to myself, right?
And when I'm not not get the fuck off.
I'm just like, I'm like this, you know, even if you're in deep
in if you're deep into it, it's like I I will have moments in my
I'm having that moment today where I'm like, this is I don't
(41:21):
like how I physically look. I don't like how I feel in my
clothes. It's OK because maybe tomorrow I
will feel better. I've never not felt better
eventually. And then also for me, it's that
real time. If I say something negative
about myself, I have to look forsomething positive in that
(41:42):
moment. Man, that one's so.
Powerful. I've also gone as far as to
like, literally look at myself in the mirror and be like,
you're fine. You're doing really good and
like having that when you were literally talking to the person
in front of you and looking her in her.
(42:02):
Eyes and looking her. In her eyes, yeah.
And it's it feels. And that's like when I'm in my
deep, deep sadness, I'll do that.
I've only had to do it a few times in my life.
But. And I think I pulled it from Mel
Robbins. I think she has like a whole
book that she's made billions ofdollars off of talking about
just high 5 yourself every day. And I was like, that sounds
(42:22):
dumb. And then I tried it and there
was something very vulnerable. About it.
Because in that moment, you're like, you look stupid, but it's
like, who cares? I'm the only person in this
bathroom right now. Yeah.
So like who am I performing for?Who me?
And so I'm like, if this is going to make me feel better,
(42:43):
then cool, let's do it. And I will.
I'll put my hand on the mirror and I'll be like you are.
Yeah. And I'm like, you're doing
really good. I have no one.
This is my life. I have no one.
I'm like measuring up to. I have no one.
I love that you said who am I performing for though?
Because you are performing for your own worst critic, right?
(43:03):
Like you, your worst critic is the only one in the room.
Like she's the. Only person that's gonna be like
you look like a fucking idiot. Yeah, and I'd be like, you're
mean well be. Nice.
Yeah, but Victoria, Vic. You're that's a real Vicky move,
girl. And like, she's not a Vicky.
OK, so, you know, I did. I should name my arch my arch
nemesis. Yeah, my inner arch nemesis.
(43:27):
Your inner demons are used to like, beat up.
On little boys who called me Vicki, they'd be like, hell
yeah, Vicki. And I was like, punch you in the
arm. Don't call me that.
Don't call me that. You can call me.
Tori or Victoria? Actually, for a little while I
would refuse Tori, and then for a little other while I would
refuse Victoria. Keep everyone on their toes,
Yeah, you know. Yeah, keep it fresh.
Keep it fresh. So those are like the top, the
(43:51):
top things. Yeah, that I.
Think I do the tools that I have.
Do you feel like? You out like like what am I
trying to ask you? Do you feel like you are able to
recognize fairly immediately when you're going down that path
or does it sometimes take you some time?
No, I. Know right away I know when I've
walked through the threshold. Is it just because like you can
(44:15):
hear yourself in real time? Like you hear those thoughts and
you're like, excuse you or like like how do you catch it?
Or do you not even realize it? I.
Don't know, I just, I noticed patterns, yeah, and I noticed
patterns and and my first question usually is like, are
you on your period you? Know I used to like.
(44:38):
Fight the period so hard. Like my mom would be like, well,
Vic, I was like, I just feel so gross.
And she'd be like, well, when are you?
Are you on your beard? And I was like, screw you, mom,
you're not. I also feel, I mean, I don't
know how it was for you, but I feel like that that can very
easily become such a patronizingquestion, it felt.
Patronizing. I don't think she was trying to
do patronizing. Yeah, yeah, but I do.
(45:00):
I would get I still even God, even now when she and I are in
conversation, I should be like, well, because I'm like I feel so
gross. My body feels big and thick and
she's like, but are you? I was like, shut up, mom.
I'm like you. Don't know me, You don't know
me. And I'm like, she does that.
And so now that's like always myfirst question.
(45:20):
I'm like, are you anywhere around it?
Embracing the more feminine sideof who I am?
Yeah. And that I have hormones and
they are. Ever fluctuating that they
forever. Fluctuate.
And then I mean like, yeah. And asking my questions that I
used to think that if I just felt like shit, it was like, OK,
I'm gonna feel like shit for a few days and now it's like, OK,
(45:42):
did you eat anything? Have you had any water?
Yeah, now there are. So many contributing factors.
How much did you sleep last night?
Yes. How much did you?
Sleep. What did you eat?
Was it super high in sodium? Like are you, you know, like I'm
doing a bulk right now. I've never in my life done a
bulk. And so like I.
Am I'm on a different journey that I've never been on?
And so like, I do feel thick andheavy because she's eating more
(46:06):
because that's stage 1. Of booking, yes.
And so like that's a whole new journey and I'm just like really
being very gentle with myself right now because like, that's
so scary. Like the reprogramming of my
brain that is happening on the daily of like, these are good
things. Like that's a good thing.
You're going to use that power to like something, you know, to
(46:29):
build muscle and all that stuff and like, but old Toria would
have been like, now you're just fat and nobody loves you.
I love how that I love how one goes straight into the next.
Nope, I. Have no doubt.
But also, I mean, like, that's so real to feel like your, your
outward appearance is the thing that makes people love you.
(46:50):
That's such a that's so real. That's such a human.
That's such like a human mindset.
Yeah. Because you know who don't give
a fuck? Animals, they don't look at
themselves and be like, I'm chubby, no one's going to love
me, going to love. Me, in fact, my cat's.
Like, can you make me chubbier, please?
Yeah. We're doing our best anyway.
Yeah, I mean, how about you got some tips and tricks?
(47:13):
I I. Really, I also really like the
like if I'm, if I am in a negative cycle, negative mindset
cycle with myself, I have to find the, the positive.
If my, whatever my negative narrative is, I have to take
that narrative and look at the flip side of it and say what in
this, in this scenario or in this instance, whether it is
like something, a behavior that I'm doing that I'm upset with
(47:35):
myself for or something physicalthat I'm upset with myself for.
Take that thing that you're upset about being negative about
and find a positive thing about it.
Find a way to speak positively to yourself about it.
Man, it really is like that one is really powerful because you
you get to choose your own narrative 100% of the time, 100%
of the time. So if your narrative is
(47:56):
negative, if you trench toward the negative, which we've all
been there, Some of us stay there longer than others.
I was there for 20. Three years, yeah.
You had you get to choose whether you stay there or
whether you move or whether you invert it, right?
I mean, it's that whole gratitude.
Practice, yeah, that, you know, sounds so cliche.
(48:18):
It's the tchotchkes that you andI have talked about in our in
this podcast of like it all sounds like a tchotchke, like
more wine, more problems. But it is when I found yoga and
went into the yoga world, I was just like, oh, I'm talking about
fucking gratitude all the time. So many tchotchkes when you got
up, but also those Trotsky's arereal for reason.
(48:41):
Yeah, they're Trotsky for a reason.
They've stuck. Around longer than most things
because they actually make sense.
Like gratitude practice. It's called a practice because
it is something we have to do onthe daily.
It's a muscle and it's. Not.
And it's never perfect. You cannot.
Grow something that you're not working.
And so it is like you cannot getgood at finding the good if
(49:03):
you've never practiced it before.
And then it is like, I mean, I'mnot, it's not a joke when I say
I was there for 23 years becauselike I was, I was like, expect
the worst, hope for the best, but I'm going to expect the
worst. So then I'm prepared.
And it's like, but what if we didn't?
And we found, we found the good.No matter what happened, it was
(49:25):
like, oh, thank God that happened because otherwise all
these other things would have happened that I don't want.
Yeah, you know, Yes, yeah, yes. But I mean the gratitude starts
with like acknowledging I am nottalking kindly to myself.
And acknowledging that like you deserve the kindness.
Yeah. Amen.
(49:46):
It's that what was that Instagram post that was like
this? It's summer.
It's that time of year where everyone is mean about their
legs like those. Look at those dirty legs that
hold you up every single day. They carry you.
Those are the things that carry you uphills and downhills and
all over the place. Yeah, I have so much gratitude
for my legs. Come on, Queens.
(50:08):
I. Didn't for a long time.
I was really mean to my legs, but look at.
How strong they are, yeah. They didn't look like I wanted
them to look, of course, you know?
And so that was the hard part. Yeah.
They're strong, but I never appreciated it.
We're not told, especially as women, to appreciate the
strength. Yeah, I think it's starting to
shift. But like, we were just told that
(50:30):
women are. Starting to shift it, but like
the, the, the like societal expectation that is rooted in
the male gaze will take some time to follow.
But you know what? We're going to.
We're going to make it, Yeah. But I think, I mean, what's our
other choice? We just, yeah, we just, we just
accept. That we just roll over and
(50:51):
accept that this is the way the world is gonna be forever.
Fuck no. No, I'm just gonna let it be
this way for my daughters. Fuck no.
No. But I think that's the.
Other thing that I, the other tool that I like to deploy when
I'm in that negative mindset is like stepping out of it long
enough to say, where's this message coming from?
Do I, does Kimberly actually feel this way?
(51:12):
Like in my core, in my being, doI actually feel this way?
Or where does this narrative come from?
Does it come from an outside influence?
Does it come from societal expectations?
Does it come from something thatanother person has said to me at
some point in my life, which by the way, isn't outside influence
and I can let it become my internal monologue or not?
(51:34):
And the not letting it is much harder than the letting it.
But like when you can pause for me, when I can pause and step
outside of it and go like, why am I doing this right now?
Why am I standing in front of the mirror and judging my body
right now? If I look at where the root of
that judgement comes from, it doesn't come from myself.
It comes from all the messages that I have received in
different in different places throughout my life.
(51:56):
And like the those external messages have no business being
a part of my internal person. Yeah, but it's far easier to let
those creep in than the positiveones.
Well. Yeah.
And, and understand that like feelings, although important,
are not facts. No, feelings are not facts.
(52:16):
Feelings are not facts. I feel this way.
OK, but what are the actual facts of what is happening?
Yeah, right. That's where, like knowing where
you are in your cycle and all that is like such and was such a
helpful tool for me. Or noticing how food and water
affected my body was important for me.
(52:39):
If I don't move my body daily, what that does to everything in
my life, Yeah, 'cause it's such an important part of my life.
So I think, yeah, realizing thatfeelings are not facts.
No, they're just a guide. They're information, yeah, and
(53:00):
you should always listen to themand follow them and honor them
for what they are and don't suppress them.
Use them as tools. Yeah, use them as tools, but
don't treat them as fact cuz they're not.
They're just signals. They're just messages.
Yeah, great. Go team.
Go team. Hey, we did that.
We did it. I'm.
(53:21):
So quiet on mine so. He he always fixes it
afterwards. Love it.
On that note, what do you do? What do you do?
Listen, dear listener who has good, I bet, I bet some of you
out there has some really good tips.
Yeah. What can we?
Share What can we share via you with other listeners, please and
(53:47):
thank. You please.
Please Yep, you can send. It you can DM us on it's
nothing. It's everything pod.
On insta. On the insta.
Or you can send us a e-mail at itsnothingitseverythingpodcast@gmail.com.
The longest. E-mail address ever in the
history. Or, you know, tell either one of
(54:07):
us. For those of you who know us,
Yep. I do want to hear, I would love
to spread like some actual good information about into the world
especially. I mean, yeah, any any
information, all information is good information.
That's not true. That's not true.
Take that back. That's not true.
But yeah, but. Tips and tricks, you never know
(54:27):
what your tip and trick will, how it will affect people.
Because I'm shocked how something that I think is
insignificant. Yeah, I will say to somebody,
they're like, I've never thoughtabout it that way.
I'm like, well, yeah, I'm so glad that we had this
conversation. So just talk to us, everybody,
OK? Do it.
Great. Thanks.
Keep I oh wait, yeah, OK, great.And see you next Tuesday.
(54:53):
Bye.
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