E19 Letting Go Without Losing Control (Or Sanity), Parenting Edition

Raising children is one long lesson in letting go, which is cute in theory, but feels more like Armageddon in real life. We’re talking trust, boundaries, and finding your footing in the messy middle of control and freedom. It's about parenting, but it's also about all the things

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
Hi, friends. I'm Kimberly.
And I'm Tori. And you are listening to it's
nothing, it's. Everything.
OK. I started doing voice lessons
again, which has been so lovely for 'cause I don't really have
any reason to other than I do like to sing and I it brings you
joy. It brings me joy and
occasionally people pay me to doit.

(00:22):
That's right. It's also time to yourself.
It's time to myself doing something that, you know, I had
a very traumatic end of last year, got sick, lost my voice
during the show, had to keep pushing because I didn't have an
understudy. So fucked it up hard.
Like the inflammation never wentaway for months and months

(00:47):
after. So then I had to go get scoped,
did all the things, went to go see this lady who's a doctor of
the voice. And but I was like, I liked
doing that. That was nice.
So I went back after everything kind of healed up, started
working with her, but she was saying I was like, I don't
really. She's like, how often are you,
you know, doing warmups? I was like, never a girl like

(01:09):
you are it. She's like, listen, everybody
thinks that they have to put up like an hour aside to do a full,
you know, No, you don't. You go to the bathroom how many
times a day every time you're there when I'm doing my social
media? Yeah, You could be.
You could be doing scales, just lip trills.
You could be doing lip trills. You could be doing all of these.

(01:31):
You know, she said all the different things that I could
do. And I was just like, oh.
Which also even just for talkingin a hot room well.
Right, she really hates the factthat I don't have a microphone
in my teaching setting. I do too, and all instructors
should have microphones. Well, you know, I had AI had a

(01:52):
an opinion about that. There was part of me that was
like as somebody who classic musical theater right before we
were really using microphones, our job was to be able to
project in a healthy way to grandma in the back row.
And so like my old man self is like just fucking pull yourself

(02:12):
up by your boat traps and do it.And I don't think that is
necessary. I mean, like, I don't know, a
part of me still believes that just 'cause it's, I don't.
But then I had to use the microphone when I taught and
some of the things one I didn't have to push, right, because we
get lazy too. And so I would, I caught myself,

(02:34):
especially when I was being veryaware of any time I opened my
mouth. And but actually I had a student
who was hard of hearing who was like, I loved when you used your
microphone. I was just one that I bought off
of Amazon that was like attachedto my body, right?
It was not. She got overheated a lot and it

(02:55):
would start to crackle and pop. And so it was like caused me a
lot of anxiety and stress cause like in the middle of class or
like at the beginning of class where I'm like, OK, I'm using
this 'cause I have to 'cause I can't project that loud.
And then it would just go off and I'd be like, cool.
Now I'm stuck in this room for an hour really having to choose
what cues I am giving people. But the positive was like, I

(03:19):
didn't know she was hard of hearing.
She's, you know, one of my students for a long time.
And she was like, I could hear everything you said.
And I was like, Oh well, then maybe I do that.
More, I mean, yeah. And it's for everybody, too.
And also that environment. I mean, when I was teaching in
Jakarta and I was teaching 10 classes a week, I fucking
shredded my voice. That heat and that humidity is

(03:42):
not good when it's that constantso hard because you're just
always inflamed then, you know, So yeah, I'm, I am not of the
mindset that you should have theskills to be able to.

(04:04):
Project A shows. Anymore.
But I understand where you I like I completely.
Understand that because I because then when I did Bohemia
and I was very I was coming out of I had spent a month prepping
with a bunch of professionals. I had been on vocal rest God for
honestly 1/2 of a month. Like it was really horrible and

(04:26):
gross. I hated it so much.
I had that button that says I'm on medical vocal rest, still
have it somewhere. And but my and then really
relearning how to trust a microphone.
When I sang with a microphone, it was like, why have I had?
Why have I not been doing this my whole time?
Yeah, the whole time. Why have I been trying so hard?

(04:48):
It's a different, it's just a different skill.
It's it's. Also a much different skill than
performing where you have the same lines every single night
and you. Yeah.
Apply your VPS skills and techniques to those words in
order to present them to an audience every night.
Whereas when you're teaching a class, you're not.
You're not scripted, no, you're improv all.

(05:10):
Day, baby, all day. So there is not that muscle
memory and that application of one skill to the other in a in a
refined setting you are like offthe cuff.
And also the. Energy is dependent on the
classroom, on the students in the class, like there's on the
music. There's so much that you don't
get to plan for when. You're teaching such a driving

(05:31):
force for me. Yes.
Like, I want that pumping music.That's how I move best, yeah.
But to speak over that, especially if it's music with
lyrics, which is what you want to have recognizable music in
your in your class, Yeah, it's alot on your voice.
Yeah, so, but here's the thing Idid, I do do now is I warm up

(05:52):
and I cool down. Yeah, every I know.
So anyway, hi, I'm Tori. Hi, I'm Kimberly, this is our.
Podcast. It's about stuff and stuff.
It's about nothing. It's also about everything,
yeah. So thanks for being here.
How do you take care of your voice?
How? Do you take care of your voice?
I mean, have you gone to a silent retreat yet?

(06:15):
I. Don't.
Can you imagine? No.
No. Honestly, no.
How am I supposed to process? How am I going to crack all my
jokes? I know like I think that would
be the hardest part. You would have to.
Be like slapstick 3 stooges because you could only make
people laugh. Because I mean, like when you

(06:36):
take away one of your senses. Yeah, your other ones become
heightened. Yeah, right.
And so I will probably see absolutely everything that's
fucking funny. Or I can make a joke of I'd be
like, you see that guy? Yeah, see how he waddles and
those flippity floppies, you know, And I couldn't say that to
anybody. I my head would explode.
She wouldn't survive, no. I think I would be dead.

(06:57):
I'd be like, well, this has beenfun.
Goodbye. We actually for Mexico, Hannah
and I had thought about doing a silent like hike, which I feel
would be more well, remember we kind of did it.
We did it for the a beach section.
We went remember that was. So.
Powerful. Really powerful.

(07:18):
We'll probably do it again. So we can all just weep, we
silently. On each other.
Yes, I do. Yes.
Yes. Yes.
Yes. We did.
Right. That part was silent.
Yeah. But we did have something to do.
It wasn't just like we're eatingtogether and listening to each
other chew. Yeah.
And Drake, we're talking about chewing a lot today.
How do you feel about chewing? How do you feel about Yeah, I

(07:39):
don't know. It's not like.
How do you feel about? How are you feeling in your
heart right now? So moist.
Honestly like that. Heart.
Is feeling moist good? Good.
My heart feels so moist right now.

(08:00):
Just a lot of like. So gross.
Thanks for being here everybody.Yeah, thanks for tolerating us.
Good God. What a.
But I think it could be cool. So we were going to go on a
walk. That's what we were like.
We were going to go on a walk. And then we were like, I don't
know where we can walk at Shinwani, but.
We yeah, up the paved path to the waterfall.

(08:22):
To the bar. Watch out for horse.
Take it to Kilo Shot. Yeah, we last year, the retreat,
that was not you guys. She brought medicinal cacao,
ceremonial cacao. And we had a cacao ceremony.
And then we all walked to the beach and sat in silence for I
think 30 minutes. And just like, let the cacao

(08:42):
work its magic because that's the whole thing about cacao is
that it's, it's it is a stimulant and it is meant to be
an enhancer. But she was like, we're going to
turn off our mouths and we're going to sit in our bodies and
we're going to feel what the cacao does and we're going to
observe. And I got to tell you, it makes

(09:03):
colors more vibrant. It makes also I'm sure it was
potent because it was ceremonialand not just like cacao from
fucking. Costco.
Yeah, but it went like all of the colors were more vibrant.
It was almost like, it was almost like watching.
This is going to sound so dumb. It was almost like watching.

(09:25):
Bob Ross. A literal motion picture, like a
picture in motion, like the colors, like everything was.
Was like clay animation. But just like vibrant as in like
the IT was more saturated. Everything's more saturated.
It was just like a more saturated version of reality.
And then also we're like 1520 minutes into it and then

(09:45):
suddenly over. So we were at the, we had walked
all the way down by the beach bywhere you first come in.
If the boat takes you to the dock, not to, not to, what do
you call it? What's that bar Charlie's?
Not to Charlie Bar, but over to the dock.
We were over on that beach over there.
And so we're all just like sitting there in silence and

(10:05):
watching these birds playing. There's these little sandpipers
playing and little sand crabs. And it was just like.
Did Steph do it? Nat Geo Yeah, It was like Nat
Geo, but like maybe if you had microdose mushrooms.
And then suddenly it's completely silent.
And then all of a sudden this giant humpback whale right on
the other side of the dock fullybreeches, like straight up, like

(10:26):
fully vertical whale. And then just like flops on its
side, does this huge splash. And then just.
And then we never saw it again. It never even surfaced again.
And. Was it real?
It we all. Hallucinated the same thing.
That's how magical. That's strong.
Wow. Wow.
But so I will say the two silentmoments that I've had at

(10:47):
Ginolani, both were very magicalin very different ways.
It was a, it was a very like connective to the earth
experience. I feel like with, with
Carolyn's, with your guys, as itwas like I'm connecting to my
deep inner soul and ringing out all of the shit that is.
So we're clearing up the cobwebsand we're just going to no dark
corner left and we're going to shine the light into the

(11:09):
darkness. Yeah.
This year will be really interesting.
I'm excited for this year. Yeah, we have a very unique
group of women going, some Ogs who've gone every year.
It's our fifth year. That's so, no, maybe 4, maybe
it's our fourth year. 'Cause you skipped a year last

(11:31):
year, so I came to the 3rd 2023,yes.
Which was your third? Year, Yeah.
So this is our this is our fourth year.
Yeah, we have, yeah, we have some, some.
Yeah, it's going to be really interesting.
Very eclectic, very eclectic, which eclectic is great.
Like that's what I would have thought about You're yours

(11:53):
group. But man did that was magic
birth. It was just the magic, the most
magical blend. Yeah, I can't wait.
I can't wait. I'll sometimes just go to
Shinalani's Instagram just to stare at where I get to sit and
be like, I know what magic that is.
Yeah, I can't wait to be right there.
I know what it looks like. I know what it smells like.

(12:14):
I know what it feels like. That's that wind on the wind on
the body moment. I I know what it feels like to
have that wind on my body at that part of the beach where
that part of the ocean is doing.Reading a book with nowhere to
be except right there. Yeah, in your body.
Surrounded by people who don't give a shit what you look like,

(12:35):
they just care what you feel like on those creaky stairs
going up. The stairs forever How many are
there? 170 A. 167 a hundred.
And 67 stairs. Oh boy, your ass is high and
tight. So much cardio so.
Much I went up to. That fucking?
Jungle way to the big one. Yeah, all the way to the big

(12:56):
one. This is where we do our opening
circle. And I remember every year that
Hannah and I have done it. We've walked up and by the time
we get to the top, we're like. Yeah, sucking wind.
Sweat is dripping off of your forehead.
It's also humid. So.
Humid I. Don't always see anywhere but
then they give you all that delicious food I.
Know it's the best. Yeah.

(13:17):
Anyway, anyway, there's that. Yeah.
So today we're going to talk about something that out of the
two of us, really you can only speak about.
But I feel like we can both retrospectively speak about our
experiences. Yeah.
You know, to the level that we're.
But like how, how to raise a teenager?

(13:39):
I don't even I mean like honestly, my question is how?
Like, I don't know. I don't know how I hope that I
get better as a parent. Do you get better?
I. You get.
Different, OK. Do you get better?
I think that's a question for Roslyn.
Honestly, I don't know if I don't know if I can answer that

(14:00):
question. She does keep asking when she
gets to be on the podcast. Babe, she's at therapy right
now. I feel like that's a big that in
itself. Oh yeah.
A child going to therapy? Yeah, just to have somebody
outside of your family to talk to.
Yes, I do not. I, I want her to be able to talk

(14:20):
to somebody about the issues that she has with me so that she
can then come to me and we can come together and find
resolution. And there is a natural parent
child power dynamic that I thinkstands in the way of that, even
with parents with the best of intentions.
And then there are all the parents that don't have the best
of intentions. And, you know, we only know what

(14:42):
we know and we all have our blind spots.
And I want her to have a safe and neutral space with another
grown up that can help her navigate the the shit.
When did she start going to therapy?
The first time she started goingto therapy was in the pandemic.
It was virtual. It did not go well.
It was also like. What didn't go well?

(15:05):
She, I think, really struggled with virtual therapy and and
like, you know, feeling comfortable enough to trust
somebody that's not there, that's not there.
Yeah. Well, then also like they never
really got past the surface. So they would just like talk
about how school was. And for her, it was like every
day was Groundhog's Day. She would get out of bed, get on
the computer, be on Zoom all dayand then be done with school.

(15:27):
And then she would have to go sit on Zoom with a therapist and
be like, school was Zoom, you know, like there's just they
never got, they never got anywhere.
It was a lot of surface buddy, buddy.
Like, yeah, I like Ninja Turtlestoo, you know, didn't, didn't
really wasn't really helpful. And then we started with this
therapist at the beginning of this year and it took us a while

(15:50):
to find one because she wanted to do art therapy, which has
been hugely helpful for her. So they'll draw, they'll make
stuff. She does origami.
So having something to do with her hands while she's talking
through hard stuff has been hugely instrumental for her in
learning how to process hard hard.

(16:11):
Which I think is in in the same line, same theme of when you
need to have a hard conversationwith your kids.
Go for a drive. Yeah.
Or go for a walk, right? So that they don't have to sit.
And stare at you. Stare at you.
And feel uncomfortable in their bodies.
Yeah, and so, like, I mean, a car is great 'cause like they're
trapped there, but but they're not, they're not, Yeah, staring

(16:33):
at you and. Feeling the pressure.
Yeah. So anytime I've had to ask, I
mean, like we don't have, we have pretty low stakes right now
with an 8 and a five year old. But like I can only imagine it
getting bigger. But when I have to like practice
this tool, we'll like go for a drive.
Yeah, or I'll do it when we're on a drive.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. But I think that's cool.

(16:55):
What a great tool of. Art.
Yeah, and it's and it's so that was those were her two asks in
person. She was like, I cannot do
virtual again. I said no problem.
And then she really wanted to doart therapy.
Well, she initially wanted to do.
She has a friend who does is like super active with her
therapist. Like they'll play ping pong or

(17:17):
they'll like they're a lot more physically active or like my
nephew does kickboxing therapy. What?
Yeah. So she initially wanted.
Yeah. Well, and also like, because
that's how that's what helps himto figure out how to separate
his emotions from his hormones, you know?
Yes. And therefore more easily access

(17:41):
his emotions. And so she wanted to do
something super physical. And then it was really hard to
find someone that worked with our insurance that worked with
adolescents, that was trauma informed, that worked with
adolescents with PTSD. Like there's so many sub bullets
that had to also be fulfilled. And then on top of that, find a

(18:07):
therapist that had some kind of additional tool set rather than
just talk therapy. And so this one that we found.
Oh and they also have after school availability which is
usually like 2. Hours.
And that was a Libra. Yeah, exactly.
So after searching for what feltlike literally forever, we

(18:29):
finally found this one woman. I was like, babe, she doesn't do
play therapy, but she does do art therapy.
Like can we at least just give her a try?
And if you hate it, we'll keep looking.
But like, let's, let's not knockit until we try it and we know
for sure. And then she tried it and she
immediately loved it. So she has that.
But I just, I I will say too, something that she is aware of

(18:50):
and calls out is that we and I specifically give her more
freedom to negotiate than most of her friends.
But I'm like, we only have two rules in our household.
One is we don't negotiate healthand safety and the second one is

(19:10):
don't be an asshole. And you have to have greens on
your plate. And greens, breakfast, lunch and
dinner. But beyond that, like there's
almost always wiggle room, even if it's a millimeter, right?
So like, I want her to have the ability to navigate the wiggle
room no matter where she is. Because I grew up in a very

(19:33):
repressed environment in a very punitive, I think probably like
sort of stereotypical conservative American household
where my voice did not have value compared to other voices
and my opinion did not weigh as much as other people's opinions.

(19:53):
And my wants were always deprioritized.
Now I shouldn't say always, but often deprioritized and and I
think. I, it was important for me to
create a family environment where everybody got to be
autonomous people and the power dynamic that naturally exists
between parent and child is never going to go away.

(20:14):
My job is to keep her safe, which means my job is to provide
boundaries and to push back and say, I'm not willing to let you
do this thing that that I don't feel good about.
That makes me feel like I'm putting you at risk that I'm not
willing to put you at. Those boundaries are always
going to exist. But within that, I'm going to
give her room to negotiate because I also I want her to be
solution oriented before she comes to me.

(20:35):
I don't want her to be coming tome asking for permission for
everything. I want her to be coming to me
with a plan and say and I want her to have that anticipatory
mindset of like, OK, I want my boyfriend to come over today,
but I've been away at camp for aweek.
My room's a fucking disaster. I haven't showered.
I haven't done any laundry. So like so last night when she

(20:58):
asked me if he could come over today, I was like, what needs to
happen 1st? And she was like, what do you
mean? And I was like, you've been gone
for a week, what needs to happen?
What state is your room in? And she's like, OK, I'll do my
laundry, I'll pick up. I'll do that all XY and Z.
And that's to me what's more important to teacher rather than
be like, no, he may not come over until you've done your
chores. What when is like, what are your

(21:20):
prior? What are your primary
responsibilities and have you accounted for those before
moving on to this next thing? When did you start that?
Like since she was a baby. I feel like versions of that,
age appropriate versions of thatmaybe always since she could
talk, but she also has just always been a kid of reason.

(21:41):
I can always reason with her. I can.
Always. Well, you said that earlier.
You said that about the about Dorothea.
Yeah, dot will be very different. dot will be.
I have no idea how I'm a parent dot at this age.
I have no clue because all of that then gets us to the
conversation today where she wasin her bedroom with her

(22:02):
boyfriend with the door closed, which is something that not only
do I allow, but I advocate for and there are boundaries around
that as well. What are the boundaries?
Number one, as long as she remains open and commutative
with me as far as where she is at physically, that's allowed.

(22:23):
As long as they don't spend likehe was here today for I don't
know, 4 hours as. Long is he gone now?
Yeah. Damn, I'm assuming he left.
I know. So dumb, I know.
Sneak, sneak snake. Yeah, next time, Like, who's
that crazy lady? I'll be like, oh, that's Aunt
Tory. She'd be she'd.
Be. Don't worry.
About her, She's just crazy. Aunt Tory.

(22:45):
Another boundary is you may havetime in your room with the door
closed, but that may not be the majority of the time that he's
here there. I need to see both of your faces
more than I am not seeing both of your faces.
You may not just come in retreatto the room, close the door and
then that's where you stay. And that is important to me
because I'm sure so many people are like cringing and recoiling

(23:08):
right now. That is important to me because
I, I, I'm sure, like you, grew up in a social environment where
our friends who had restrictive parents were doing inappropriate
things in public places in orderto do what they wanted to do.
And I think that it's very important that any level of

(23:29):
intimacy she has with any personis in an environment where she
feels safe. I do not ever want her to cross
that boundary for herself just in order to get some kind of
physical pleasure. I also think part of autonomy
and part of self knowing and self understanding is
understanding self pleasure, right?

(23:51):
And so like, it is not my place to tell her that she doesn't get
to start to learn that part of herself.
But again, we have boundaries. I know exactly where she is as
far as her physical intimacy with her partner.
I know that if that changes, if that crosses A threshold into
like the next layer of intimacy,that we will have conversations

(24:13):
about it. If we stop having those
conversations, then the rules change.
So like, as long as we can be open and honest with each other
and I can help her because what's important to me is 1.
She knows how to navigate thingsthat she doesn't understand yet,
but that are still very real. Like she doesn't understand her
hormones, but I'm not going to gaslight her and tell her that

(24:34):
they don't exist or she needs toignore them.
That's not realistic, right? And also like, I think, I think
the, the line between emotional and physical intimacy is very
blurred when you are in a romantic relationship.
And I don't think it's fair to teach her that one exists

(24:57):
without the other. One does exist without the
other, but she has to experiencethat naturally.
That can't be something that I just tell her is the truth.
And therefore she's meant to just take it as gospel.
And to me, the most important thing, because Nick was the
first time it happened, Nick waslike, he was like just ready,
ready to go down there and be like you.
Never closed this door. The door.
Stays open. And so she had, you know, door

(25:20):
open. And I was like, hey, like, what,
are you leaving the door open because you want to?
And she was like, no, Nick said I had to.
And so I went to him and I was like, hey, man, like she's got
AI feel pretty strongly about this.
If she is going to feel full autonomy over herself, she has

(25:41):
to get comfortable with her boundaries to intimacy in a safe
environment, which means in her bedroom with the door closed so
that she feels comfortable because she is in a safe
environment. Saying no when she's ready to
say no. And that that message is so

(26:03):
consistently re Yeah, re reinforce in a safe environment
that the moment she is in an unsafe environment, she has no
problem advocating for herself. There is no second guessing.
There is no doubt. There is no anything.
She is just able to say this doesn't feel right to me.

(26:24):
I'm not OK with it. The end.
OK but personal question, how doyou not shit bricks as a parent?
Oh, no, I all the time. Are you kidding me?
It's. Horrible.
Because that's, I mean, like I, I trust my kids.
I don't trust anybody else in the world with my kids.
Well, and that's the thing too, is like, I know.
Because you said, like, door closed.
And I was like, my gut instinct was like, no, we have an open

(26:44):
door policy. Always, Yeah, because that's the
way we grew up, right. Yes, but but also like I have
just heard horrible stories, of course.
And but all the everything that you're saying makes so much
sense. And I wonder if I have had and
my parents never like put anything, you know, like that on

(27:05):
me. Yeah, I don't remember open door
policy maybe, but but I also remember.
We were just fully not allowed to be in my bedroom.
I don't remember. I had a lot of best friends that
were boys. And so I think that that Laura's
ever going to lie to sexual anybody.

(27:25):
But also like, yeah, I I, I don't know.
Yeah. As a parent, I'm like, how do
you handle that? Do you just go in your room and
scream in a pillow? Like how do you, how do you
handle that? How do you trust?
Sometimes, well, that's, I mean,we, we've always had very open
communication. Yeah.

(27:47):
And because I have cultivated anenvironment where she is always
considered an autonomous person,where she always gets to come to
the table and negotiate if she wants to, but but she has to
have a valid reason, right? Like she can't just come
negotiate because she feels likeit.
Because I do believe that, like it with my boys, like I've,
we've always said that like you don't have to hug anybody.
You don't have to. You don't want to hug.
You never have to kiss anybody you don't want to kiss.

(28:07):
You know, even if that means me,that's OK.
Yes. You will come to me.
Like, when we have fights or disagreements or whatever, Like,
they like to take their space. Yeah.
And I let them know where I am. I'm like, I'm.
I'll be right outside the door when you're ready.
But like, I'm not going to bust in there.
But like, we talk about this now, but when it comes to this

(28:28):
next step, and would it be the same with a boy, do you think
what it would be? I don't like the gender.
Here's why I do it, though, because I dated boys all growing
up. Yeah.
Until college. You did girls.
Yeah. For a minute.
Q For a time in New York. And then I was like, well, this
is not The girls are crazy. This ain't it.
This ain't but but talk. About anticipating needs, I mean

(28:51):
no one listen anticipates your needs better than a lesbian.
Chicks be on it. Come on, never have I felt so
cared for and thought about. Yeah, anyway, them boys, they
just don't got it. They got something but a penis,
yes. Yes.

(29:12):
A pen 15 and. Testicles.
A Pen 15. Pen 15.
Because I know what it's going to be like when she's not at my
house. Yeah.
And I want her to. I want that environment that I
don't have control over to be replicated in an environment
where I do have control so that I can teach her how to navigate

(29:35):
that environment in a safe place.
So that then when eventually shewants to go hang out at her
boyfriend's house, I'm not like,yeah, you can hang out at his
house, but you can't go into hisroom 'cause I have no fucking
control over that. And I have no control over the
parents. And I have parents.
I have, I have parents, I have friends.
I do have parents. I have friends who are parents
of boys who are Roslyn's age. And almost unanimously they all

(29:57):
are like, yeah, they're allowed to be in the room with the door
closed with their girlfriends. So like, why would I?
Can you feel? My heart like how fast this
meeting. Is, I mean, even just talking
about it, it gives me anxious because it's so hard.
But it's like, if I want her, that's important to have the
tools and to be empowered to always know exactly what feels

(30:19):
OK to her and what doesn't feel OK to her.
And to be able to advocate without a second guess.
I have to, I have to also put her in that environment and
teach her how to navigate it. Yeah, yeah.
Instead of being like, you can'tbe in that environment here,
even though I know you're going to be in that environment
outside of the home. I mean, that was the same,
that's the same conversation we had a few billion episodes ago

(30:42):
of YouTube, right? It'd be like, it's not fucking
going anywhere, right? So that's the conversation Pat
and I have had with our kids wholove, like most kids, YouTube
'cause there's just crazy stuff on there.
And but it's like, it's not going anywhere.
So like, let's give them the tools that when they see

(31:03):
something, they say something. When they feel something, they
get up, they walk away, right? They trust their instinct and
their gut to say, oh, that ain'tit.
Yeah, but man, I don't. So scary on the way there.
It's so scary. You like, I don't know if it's
actually happening, right? Well, no, and that's why.
And it's like, how can I find out without also then being

(31:23):
like, so how did it go? What did you guys do in your
room behind the closed door? We have everyone.
Yeah. What was that like?
What did you when did you say no?
You know, but she, but she to befair, she also has been very
good about saying she needs space, physical space when she
needs it. You know, like if he wants to
hold her hand but she doesn't feel like it, she'll say so.
If he wants to put his arm around her or hug her, but she

(31:43):
doesn't feel like it, she'll sayso.
And so all I can do is keep reinforcing that message and
hoping that it continues to translate and keep talking to
her in a constructive way and hoping that it sticks.
And right now, our communicationis still so open.
I mean, what's going to happen at the point when she comes to
me and it's like, I think I'm ready to start having sex.
What am I going to do? I don't fucking know, Tori, am I

(32:05):
going to die? Probably.
Am I going to die? But also, at the end of the day,
like I just will never forget leaving a football game on a
Friday night, walking to my car in the parking lot and walking
past a couple having sex in the back of their car.

(32:26):
And I do not ever want her to feel like the only way that she
can quote, UN quote, get what she's looking for, And I say
that with a massive grain of salt, is to do it in an unsafe
environment. She you.
And that's why I reinforce. Her like dirty.
Yucky also our high. Schoolers car.

(32:46):
Gross. Like was last time, it was
clean. Probably never.
Never. There's French fries and.
If it's a football game, what does that bro smell?
Like let us. Expect.
More so but also that's why it'simportant for me to make sure
that she always associates intimacy with privacy.
Those two things should always go together.
I'm not interested in having thekid that's having sex in the

(33:07):
bathroom. She needs to she and it's
important to me that like if shedoes want to explore
increasingly explore different levels of of pleasure, which is
a thing that women also get to experience.
I wish I just. For men, I wish I and it wasn't
that boys got to experience it and girls didn't.
Like I didn't think that growingup, but I definitely wasn't like

(33:29):
seeking pleasure, no of. Course not, because that's not
like the stereotype is that boysmasturbate 100 times a day
because pleasure is like the thing and the girls are meant to
be this like, sterile, manicured.
Yeah. It just makes no fucking sense.
Like, yeah, pleasure is a that'sthat's literally what, puberty.
That's the huge part of puberty that we cannot just disassociate

(33:52):
from what's happening in their bodies.
So like she deserves to know what pleasure have.
You talked about that pleasure. Yeah.
Yeah. And exploring herself, yes.
OK. And I don't, to be fair, I don't
know what she does or doesn't do.
Yeah, I have. Not we don't need to obviously
put onto the Internet. Right.
And I'm also not going to sit down and be like, so do you, you
know, like. What tools do you use?
Yeah, Yeah, we're not going to do that.

(34:13):
No, she if she wants to come to me, she can.
OK. And I'm also very open.
Well, like we talk about Lube inthis house, we talk about
vibrators in this house. I don't.
Really know how to talk to my boys about it.
Now granted there are 8 and five.
So like, I don't think we've necessarily like Sawyer's a
grabber, like Finn's never a grabber of his bits.

(34:33):
But I think it's different because to me, I'm like, I am
unstigmatizing the female sexualexperience.
That is my #1 priority, destigmatizing it.
I would say that's parallel number one priority to safety
with intimacy of any kind. Safety and destigmatization are
my 2 priorities. And so rather than fighting

(34:54):
against what I know to be true, I'm going to take what I know to
be true and figure out how to distill what I can give her to
empower her. Staying within the boundaries of
what I know to be true, which isthat children do not wait until
marriage to have sex. I also don't want that for her.
No, I want her to be so clear onher wants and her needs before
committing her life to someone. And I do not think it is.

(35:16):
Realistic. To commit your life to somebody
without understanding if you aresexually compatible?
I don't think that's realistic. No.
And I know that there are plentyof people that do it, and they
are welcome to have their own opinions and perspectives.
That is my opinion and my perspective, and I'm not going
to teach her that her purity is more important than making
uninformed decision. Also purity freaks me.

(35:38):
Out purity culture is fucking gross.
It's fucking gross. It's fucking gross.
Brittany didn't do it either, solet's let that go.
Oh my God, poor Britney. I know what a time.
Just also like at that time in life and when we were growing up
and and pop culture was hyper sexualizing girls everywhere and
then simultaneously slut shamingthem all.

(35:59):
Yes, you had to have the purity ring.
Yeah. You had to be the Jesse Simpson.
Yeah. You had to have the purity ring
while also having massive amounts of cleavage and the
tiniest skirt possible. And being so sexualized Yeah,
yeah, I no wonder they are all little cuckoo bananas yeah, I'd
be cuckoo bananas too. Be like so do you only want me

(36:19):
if I look like this right. And I perform, but I'm also.
Ashamed for looking like this but.
Also shamed for all of that. Yeah.
And yeah, it's fucking yeah. My virginity goes to the highest
bidder. It's fucking garbage.
Yeah. So we're not doing any of that
for her. Yeah, let's not do that.
We're not doing any of that. But I think it's a different
conversation because to me, whatI'm teaching her is autonomy,

(36:39):
destigmatization, things that women are not naturally taught
in our culture when it comes to pleasure and intimacy.
Whereas boys are taught autonomyin pleasure from the fucking
minute they have a penis. Which is from the very
beginning, which is. From the very beginning, right.
So I feel like your messaging isdifferent, right?

(37:00):
Your, your messaging around safety is different.
Your messaging is like you have to be a safe person.
But but also, I mean, yes. And there are people who take
advantage 100%, especially when they're 100%.
They're as vulnerable as they are.
Yeah. And I think that's, and I don't
know why my brain is so dark, but I'm just like, has anybody

(37:24):
touched you in that way? Oh, I think about a little time.
I think about. Because the statistics.
Are terrifying. They're terrifying.
It's it's almost always a friendor a family member.
It's someone close to the familywho can groom everyone from 300
miles out and then slowly work their way.
I mean, that's the story that you hear all the time.
So of course, of course your mind goes there, because that's

(37:47):
what we know to be reality. I feel like a lot of people
don't do sleepovers anymore. I know, right?
Yeah. I mean, it will take hell and
high water to get me those. Be like, yeah man, yeah, go be
in that person's. I mean, she just went, you know,
that weekend trip that I was. How did it go?
Fucking heart attack the whole time.
It was great. Of course they were crushed it.

(38:09):
She crushed it. They all crushed it.
They were just cute little nerdynerds.
It was just like, so, so innocent.
Yeah. But even with that, I'm like,
first of all, I'm going to let you leave the city, go 2 hours
out of the city with parents. I don't know, That's a hard no.
And then also on top of that, I'm going to let you be in their

(38:30):
house for two nights, also a hard no.
And then sleep like the most vulnerable thing you can do
around strangers. No.
So of course I had to meet the parents and do all the things,
but like, I'm not in a hurry to replicate that.
No. I think it's AI think it's a
great once in a blue moon kind of experience.

(38:51):
But our sleepovers, I mean, alsoI feel like the pandemic changed
it because of the pandemic, pandemic bubbles that we had and
and the natural sharing of children so that parents could
have some semblance of sanity 'cause we were doing a lot of
sleepovers in the beginning whenwe were in a bubble with people,
'cause it was the only social exposure that she could have.

(39:12):
And it was like, great, I'll take the kids for a night.
You guys sit and. Sit and look at each other.
Yeah, sit and think about how horrible life is without your
child for a night, and then we'll alternate.
But yeah, like sleepovers with new friends now that we're in
high school where we're not meeting the parents anymore.
I I'm still doing it. I'm still doing it.

(39:32):
I'm still like, give me the number.
I want another address. I want to know what they do for
a living. I want to know who's in the
house, how many adults, how manychildren, how many animals?
Is anyone else gonna be there? Are you?
If she's, if she's going to a sleepover at somebody's house
that I don't know who's going tobe there.
Are the adults having friends over?
Who else is going to be in the house?
Are there going to be any adultsthat are not the two parents in
the house? Are there going to be any

(39:53):
teenagers that are not in this group?
Right. Like who are there going to be
cousins? Are there going to be neighbors?
Are there going to be? I want to know exactly who's
going to be there the entire time.
Yeah. I want to know if there are
weapons in the house. If there are, I want to know if
those weapons are behind a lock.I want to know if there's
alcohol in the house. If so, I want to know if that
alcohol is behind a lock. I want to know if there's access
to drugs. I want to know if there's access

(40:13):
to porn. I want to know everything.
And I asked all of those questions, and I was telling
somebody that I don't think it was my dad, but it was
definitely like a boomer, man. That was like, that's excessive.
And I was like, yeah, well, someof us had experiences as
children that we're trying to protect our fucking kids from.
So like, I don't care if it's excessive.
I'm going to do whatever I have to do to make sure that my

(40:34):
children are safe. We actually had AI had a
conversation with my mom about this, but she's like at what
age? Because we, for Finn's birthday,
we had all the, all the people over, right?
His like little friends and a lot of his friends are our
friends. We know the parents.
And so just everybody would comeover and my, my mom was like,

(40:56):
whatever happened to the days ofjust like dropping your kid off
at a birthday party? And I was like, that doesn't
happen anymore. Like that does not happen
anymore. I don't, I would not feel
comfortable. In fact, we've had to experience
this where he got invited to a birthday party at somebody's
house. And I was like, cool, I hope
that you have some sparkling bubble water for me because I'll

(41:19):
also be there. And sure enough, there were,
there were probably a handful ofkids who didn't have a parent
there. But otherwise the walls were
lined with parents who were awkwardly standing there because
I mean, and I get what she's saying, like I get it, but I'm
also like, that's not our reality anymore.
No, she's like why? And I was like, because bad shit

(41:40):
happened to good kids. Yeah.
We we, we grew. Up in a dark and fucked up time
for kids, yeah. It's just like those lab babies.
Did not get taken care of. Yeah, and it's like when they're
babies and we don't put stuff intheir cribs anymore because kids
died. Yeah, and we learned not to.
Yeah, so we we're getting, you know, better with age, maybe
more guarded. And that does suck, right.

(42:02):
But like, I don't know what elseto do about it.
Yeah, I mean, I don't think they're.
I actually disagree. I don't think that it sucks.
I think they get to learn independence in different ways.
And and I think that ensuring that your children grow up safe
and whole is to me not as long as it's within reason.

(42:25):
Right. Like you still let them leave
the house and still let them have friends.
You're still letting him go to the birthday party.
You're not keeping him from the party.
You're just saying I'm going to be there too because I because
the chance of something happening is not worth me
getting 2 hours to myself. No.
Not worth it. No.
And in this day and age, it's the only place to meet people.

(42:47):
Yeah, I mean, it's the only way to meet parents.
It's the only way to meet parents.
They don't hand out directories anymore.
This drop off is you drive up, you drop them off, you drive up,
you pick them up. Yeah, I don't get out of the
car. We don't get.
Out they are retrieved and inserted by their teacher.
Yeah, which sucks too because I was like, I'd love to like how
do how do I get a hold of these?People.

(43:07):
Oh yeah, and also like the half of the half of our social
engagement with the other parents is at pick up and drop
off because we walk them in. We have to walk through a A
gated there with a door code. You got to enter the code to get
the gate to unlock to A so parents are constantly crossing
paths. But that's just.
When we learn the crazy shit that happens like dot scratched
one of her friends literally from the nape of his neck down

(43:31):
to his lumbar spine. Full on open wound scratched
down his back. She and the parents also think
this. Everyone believes that they were
just playing however the school.You're like, I know different
the school. Put a Band-Aid, one Band-Aid,
one Band-Aid over part of it. OK.

(43:52):
Didn't didn't fill out an incident report, didn't
communicate with his parents, didn't communicate with us.
Oh no. So I'm going to pick up the next
day. I go to get her and the dad
comes over and he's like, hey, you know, we're chit chatting,
whatever. And he's like, did you know
about the scratch? And I'm like, what are you
talking about? He shows me a picture.
It's a full on fucking straight down his back scratch, bleeding
scratch. And he's like, yeah, the school

(44:13):
didn't even tell me. I had to ask him what happened
when I. Got him in the bath.
Oh no. So like there's also some
significant value in having thatFaceTime with parents to just to
understand what's going on for your kids, because then I have
to go and be like, hey, babe, you good.
Did you, did you, Was that on purpose?
Were you feeling something? Do we need to make a repair?
Like I got to help you navigate this, but I can't do that if I

(44:35):
don't have any information. You know.
It's hard and it's a hard time to be raising kids.
But all that to say, yeah, yeah,we don't.
I don't. I barely let Rosin go anywhere
without me. Now, the people that I feel
comfortable with her sleeping over with are.
There are two families in particular and both of them.

(44:55):
Are families that we know very well because they've been in
this friend group together sincegrade school.
Yeah, but I mean, like we had a an incident the in the laundry
list of questions that I'm, I'm gathering sure you know, to for
future involvement with other parents.

(45:17):
The one that I didn't add until Sawyer was firearms.
Are there firearms in your house?
Which a lot of people do, which is their choice and that's fine.
So long as. So long as it is locked up high
and tight. Because my dad, who was an air,

(45:38):
he was an air Marshall. After 911, he became an air
Marshall. So he was the pilot on the
flight who had the firearm. So he had to keep it on him and
brought it home and all that. And but so he has one, which is
we've, he and I have gotten to have a fun conversation about,

(45:58):
but the we put Sawyer in a little like it, it, it was in
our neighborhood and so we couldwalk there.
He was there for like a few hours just to like get him
acclimated after COVID. OK so this is like the first
preschool. Or daycare, his brother first,
daycare first out of like stranger first stranger house,

(46:20):
right? What's funny is it was our
setup. It's in our neighborhood.
So like the house is the same layout layout as our house but
mirrored. Which is.
So like, when I walked into like, you know, meet the lady, I
was like, what the hell? He's like, that's alternate
reality. Yeah.

(46:41):
It felt very strange. You were in the upside down.
Yeah, and because it very different, it was this lovely
Indian lady and she everything was like pristine clean, you
know, their their fine dining was all set up.
For a daycare. Well, they had like a daycare,
so you know where we have like our kids.
It's like the little. Play area?

(47:02):
Yeah, the formal dining room. It would have been a formal
dining room and there's they keep that the daycare.
But then if you kept going towards the kitchen, they had,
yeah. I mean, it looked like IKEA.
It was like real fancy and nice,but everything was just so
clean. And I was like, do I miss Sandy?
Well, anyway, one time that we got this random there like
daycare's cancelled today, so you have to keep them home.

(47:25):
And I was like, there was a illness or something.
It's like, OK, then a few days later was like, we're cancelling
daycare for the rest of the week.
There was a death in the family,OK.
And then it was around 4th of July and she's like, we'll open
up right after 4th of July. And I was like, OK, ran into on

(47:47):
our week off, ran into somebody else who was also at part of the
daycare. She was like, did you hear what
happened? I said, what do you know?
She said her husband killed himself in the house.
And I said, huh, no. And it was very traumatic.
Obviously was. It a firearm.
Yeah, shot himself and in the I know what the closet looks like

(48:12):
because I have the same layout as what we call the Harry Potter
closet and I but the the fact that I mean, it was crazy
because like she was opening back up this daycare that's in
this house. God, Can you imagine?
No, because I supposedly well, this is she's got to make money
because she had he didn't leave,I guess any money.

(48:33):
I don't know right. She had come home.
Her mother also lived and so herand her mother found him came
out screaming. Oh my God, then got all the
neighbors involved. And so this gal who I was
talking to, she was like I pulled all the kids.
There were many kids in the house when it happened, but like
it was like right where it does happen.

(48:53):
And so I, but I was just like, my, of course my question was
like, was that firearm there thewhole time?
Yeah. Like, RIP.
And I'm so sad that that happened.
That's, you know, and, and then of course, I had to tell this
lady I'm not bringing my child back.
Oh my God, you know, 'cause I was just like, I'm so sorry.
And, you know, I'll pay whateverI have to pay to like, get out

(49:15):
of it. But like, sorry, I can't bring
my kid into the house. Yeah, I know there's a ghost
somewhere in that house. Like I can.
Sure, but that was I didn't I that I I remember meeting her
and never asking that question 'cause I just assumed.
But that's the thing, right? Like that's our parents just
assumed we could go to sleepovers and other parents

(49:36):
were trustworthy. And you have we.
You have to ask. All those horrible stories of
like at a sleepover, they find guns and they're like playing.
Playing. Around Oops, didn't know it was
loaded. Yes.
And I'm like, yeah, no, I'm not.I'll be overprotective.
Yep. If that's the if that's my
choice over protection or we're fucking around with guns, yeah,

(49:57):
then yeah, I'll go for it. Yeah, yeah, yeah, it is.
I mean, it's just not, it's not worth the risk.
It's never worth the risk. And I, I'm not here to tell
people whether or not to have firearms in their house.
No, just just be responsible gunowners.
And where? Is teach the kids right, Right.
Yeah. It goes into the all the stuff
we were talking about of like teach the kids.

(50:17):
Yeah, if you are at somebody else's house and you see a gun,
you do not touch it, you do not play with it.
Assume it's real. Assume it's real.
And go tell somebody. And then call me and tell me you
don't feel good if you're afraid.
Because I remember having that conversation with Roslyn once
where she was like, well, what? Because I think I said like, go
talk to an adult. And she was like, what if it's

(50:38):
their gun and they get upset that I'm asking about it?
And I was like then call me and tell.
Me your stomach hurts. Yeah, I'll come get you right.
Whatever The thing is, I will come get you, no questions
asked. Yeah.
But we always have an out. We always have an out if she.
Remember anywhere that she's uncomfortable.
Yeah, I remember my dad and mom having saying that we never had
like curfew or anything like that.
I remember them being very chesting.

(50:58):
One time I I pushed the curfew and we had consequences.
I can't remember what the consequences were.
I think it was like you have to be home by, you know, a certain
time. Now you have a curfew for a
little bit. Yeah, but it was so funny
because I remember what it wasn't even my, I didn't do it.
I was with a friend and she was trying to like meet up with this

(51:21):
guy. And we walked into and I was
having a sleepover at her house.And to be fair, it was 3:00 in
the morning when we got home. And I walked in and it was
Christmas time because I walked in into her living room to look
at their Christmas tree. And here sitting next to the
Christmas tree with no other fucking lights on in the room is

(51:42):
her father, of course, just sitting.
Like he didn't say anything to me.
Of course she didn't say anything to me.
I just saw him. Oh God, I saw him.
And I was like, she was like, your dad's.
I was just like, Oh my God, is, is that real?
Like it's not a puppet. Like there's a mannequin.
Love your father. Home, what's happening?
And it was so scary. And he, of course, like, had a

(52:03):
discussion with my my parents because I was just there.
I wasn't even like trying to getwith this dude.
I was just like, I'm just here for the popcorn.
Like, I was like, that was pretty much my whole high school
experience. Same.
Yeah. I was just like, same as
whatever. Guys are weird.
And what do you do with that Dingle dangle that?
What do you do with the gonzo's nose between your legs?
Like, I don't understand. You know what I'm saying?

(52:24):
It looks like an alien's finger.Like, I don't understand.
And so like, you know, anyway. And I was like, wow, I ruined my
curfew for you. Bummer.
Yeah, 'cause you wanted to hook up some guy, hook up some.
Guy but I do remember like not like having that freedom, never
having like those those really strict rules yeah, did give like

(52:44):
I wasn't ever trying to fight back.
Yeah. So you weren't you were like
I'm. Tired.
I'm going home. Yeah.
But to be fair, I was, you know,I was like, yeah, I'm tired.
Good night. But looks you listening to your
body and advocating I'm. Sure there wasn't.
There were. Sometimes I didn't.
Oh, I'm sure. I'm sure of it.
But it's, I mean, that's The thing is that you don't you,

(53:06):
you, the minute you leave your home environment, you don't have
control or you're, you lose control.
I mean, you don't necessarily lose all of that, but you can't
control the people around you and what they're doing.
And you're either indirectly exposing yourself to something
that is potentially dangerous ornot right.
But like, are you supposed to recognize that as a teenager?
No. No.

(53:27):
I mean, I remember the first time.
Oh God, it was early elementary school.
I remember the apartment complex.
I don't remember who it was. Was it?
Maybe there was this girl, Sheena.
Sure. But also could very well not
have been her, but she. I think I met her at a

(53:49):
McDonald's play place and we became friends.
I think it was her apartment, but it could have very well have
not been her apartment. Somebody's apartment.
I went for a sleepover. The parents were gone.
The older sister was supposed tobe watching us.
She had her boyfriend over. They they were watching porn and
having sex on the couch while wewere supposed to be sleeping on

(54:11):
the living room floor in sleeping bags.
I Yeah. That's so traumatic.
Yeah, so I'm like, great, here'show I teach my daughter not to
ever just try to close her eyes and look the other way in this
kind of situation. But how would you, I mean like I

(54:33):
try to think of like young Tori in that scenario.
I'd be like, what am I supposed to do here?
That's. Exactly what I I was like, I'm
the youngest. I don't have.
There are people here that are older than me.
The older ones wasn't a cell phone.
No, the older ones are supposed to be the ones in charge.
So like, I don't have anyone I can go to and what am I going to
do? Like go call my parents at 1:00
in the morning. I mean, I I guess you could.

(54:53):
Have can you come back? Yeah, but.
Also, did they create that spaceright?
No. Yeah, they didn't.
No, they didn't create that space.
I, I'm sure I was probably afraid of calling them at 1:00
in the morning, afraid of getting in trouble for calling
them at 1:00 in the morning. You know, and like my, my child
brain justified that as a reasonnot to call them rather than
like maybe temporarily them being upset about the fact that
it's one in the morning and their sleep is being interrupted

(55:15):
for the greater good of the situation, which is getting me
the fuck out of that environment.
But like, I didn't think about that.
I thought about the fact that I was going to get in trouble if I
did anything or said anything. So I just like, you know, stayed
there and just. Tried to be as climbing bag all
the way up. Suffocate to death, yeah.
Yeah, yeah. And I know so many people with
stories like that. Nick has similar stories.

(55:36):
I know so many kids with stories.
Like that. I mean, I remember bullying
being pretty rough, not for me personally, but the like, the
stories that I've heard of what people would do to each other,
like while they're sleeping and yes, you know, all the and yeah,
I'm just like, no, yeah, that's just not.
I can't trust anybody making good decisions at 1:00 in the
morning, and that's for damn sure.

(55:57):
No, that was very ugly. Oh, I'm sorry you had to
experience that. Thanks, me too.
That's that was that one is imprinted.
Well, that would change how I perceived sex.
Oh yeah. Probably forever.
Also like. Being.

(56:19):
Exposed to porn without consent.Also that and how porn is.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Porn.
Nope. It made me very like, afraid of
sex. I was like, that's a thing that
you should never do. Well, because.
That looks terrifying. That looks painful for the
woman. Yeah, 'cause it's not like, you
know, porn's really about the women's pleasure.
Nope, right. Nope.

(56:40):
That goes back to the beginning of the conversation, right?
Women's pleasure is not a part of the conversation.
No, right. Yeah.
Wow. Child rearing.
What a time. Not for everybody.
Not for the faint part. But if you're in it, I think
it's nice to have these conversations though, to like,

(57:01):
especially me. I'm watching, you know, other
parents that I respect. And I'm like watching me
struggle through. It first, yeah, take notes and
be like. And then when I learn that
somehow the way that I've done it has caused some other issue
that I could tell you that so you.
Can it's gonna, of course, it's always gonna do something, yeah.
Right. There will always be an
unintended outcome. Yes, yeah, I know that.

(57:25):
And my parents were pretty kick ass, but there were things that
were missed and they were doing the best that they could with
the tools that they had, right. And I'm doing the best that I
can with the tools that I have and I'm going to mess it up
probably 78% of the time. Oh easily, right.
And so, but it, it is these where I don't, I don't like, or

(57:50):
I didn't get the tools early enough that I'm now I'm trying
to like gain those tools to giveto my children, but I'm like,
which way will they be received?I think that's my with some of
my bigger fears. It's like I'm, I'm intending
this with the best intention. I don't know if I'm a. 100%

(58:11):
because we don't know what we can't see, right?
We can, we make the decisions that we make based on what we've
been able to see, but that doesn't mean we can see
everything. So sooner or later they're going
to, there are going to be unintended consequences of the
things that we have done, which is why open communication so
important for me. Teaching her to advocate for
herself, to negotiate, teaching her that just because there is a
natural power dynamic in my responsibility to keep her safe,

(58:34):
doesn't mean that that power dynamic that means she doesn't
get to have a voice. And if I do something that
upsets her or hurts her, she gets to come to me and say that.
And we get to have a conversation about it.
And, and making sure that there are open, safe lines of
communication across all topics across all time.
And if there is a breakdown in any one of those lines at any

(58:55):
point, we identify the breakdownand then we fix it so that we
can continue to have those open lines of communication.
Because there is all kinds of scary shit that you have to
navigate as you become an independent person in the world.
And I don't want her to go to her friends and say, how do I
navigate this? When you're going to somebody
else who's the same age as you, guess where you're not going to

(59:16):
get the safest information. I'd rather have her come to me.
Yeah, yeah. I, I like, keep reinforcing.
I'm like, listen, you can say anything to me.
You can tell me anything. As long as you're telling the
truth, you're not going to get in trouble.
That's my hope. Yeah.

(59:37):
But you know, I have such young kids still.
But also, I mean, it is. It's just one of those things is
like, what's what's being heard?What's being remembered?
Well, and also like how you say something.
Versus how they take it. Yes.
It's so hard. It's so hard, I don't like it
here. Can I just not?

(01:00:02):
But then I'd be sad because I wouldn't have my kids.
And I do love my kids. I mean, they're the best.
They are. They really are.
They're real cute. And and, you know, Pat and I do
our best to like figure out be like, OK, that wasn't good.
How can we make it better? And then do you have
conversations with them? Oh yeah.
Yeah, that's to me the that's the key difference.

(01:00:24):
It doesn't right now seem to matter to them.
They're just like, OK. But that's because they're used
to it. Maybe which is teaching them
that that's what's normal, whichperspective shift that?
Means you're. Welcome.
Which then means that when they are ready to call you out and
that day will come, that you have already established a
foundation where you can then have a conversation.

(01:00:45):
Already does. Like I'll raise my voice and
he's like, Mama, you're raising your voice.
And I was like, screw you, man. You don't know me.
You. Don't know me and I was like but
also heard chef. I'm like, OK, thank you for
keeping me honest. And but man, he Finn can hold on

(01:01:07):
to things forever. He's a cancer too, but like, so
he's like big emotions. All the time.
The hugest, the the the huge youngest.
But like, one negative thing happens to him and he will
remember it. Like taints.
Yeah. Anything like, gosh, what's a
good example? One time we were trying to get
him to, like, into golf and he was with my dad and they were

(01:01:29):
just practicing at my dad's house.
And my dad, like, pulled like, alittle bit of his hair back
here. Like, joking with him, right.
Just like, jostle, jostling, jostling with him, right.
Just like, fucking with him a little bit.
Yeah. Finn squid right then and there.
And every time golf comes up, hesaid no, no, remember, he does

(01:01:56):
it every single time and it was years.
Ago and it was there like was your dad messing with him
because he was like not listening?
Or yeah, I think so. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Which I, we had a conversation. I was like, hey Dad, that won't
work with him. Yeah.
Sorry you weren't taught how to use your words.
We use our words in those. Yeah.

(01:02:17):
Yeah. And so we can't do that.
I mean, he's but he he's he's held on to stuff for me where it
was like the best intentioned thing and it was taken the wrong
way. But I'm not going to be like,
well, you heard that wrong. Yeah, you silly little bully,
right. No, I'm going to be like, I'm
sorry that I yelled or got whatever right.

(01:02:39):
And, you know, I needed to take a deep breath and, or to put
myself a time out. Yeah, but but I think the the
things that scare me and those are great.
Like, I'm glad that we get to practice that all the time in
our little lives, but I think the I'm so scared for what's
coming down the the line 'cause I can't.

(01:03:02):
Like he's even told me he's like, Oh yeah, there's kids his
age with phones, fully working phones.
And I hate the Internet. Like, I hate it.
I don't trust it. There's just all I can imagine
is porn everywhere. I mean, you're not wrong.
Right. I mean, like the thing that Nick
sent me actually about Sonic and'cause he brought up this Shin

(01:03:23):
Sonic and I was like, what is this thing?
And so I will looked it up and Iwas like, that looks like Sonic
on crack cocaine. Has the all the drugs?
What? Are we doing there that is bath
salts if I've ever seen it and like and and then you know, your
lovely husband sent me this 30 minute mini documentary about
like the crazy people. God bless you if you listen to

(01:03:45):
our podcast who are like Sonic fanatics who have now made like
Sonic porn and all this horriblestuff.
And I mean, I've like looked at my my mother-in-law and been
like, are you going to be the reason that Finn watches porn
for the first time? Yeah, because you're not paying
attention. Because.
You're not paying attention. Yeah, and.
And the algorithm just looks forlike content, yes.

(01:04:05):
So like Sonic video, Sonic video, Sonic video, Oops,
suddenly it's Sonic porn. Because I don't want to feel
like an overbearing, you know, parent.
And I know that all the grandparents think I am.
I know that I'm sure somebody's called me a helicopter parent,
even though I'm out there. Like not being I, I don't think
I'm a helicopter. No, I think you're a pretty laid
back parent. Right.
I'm just like, yeah, you're justpresent.

(01:04:27):
Fuck around and find out. Engaged.
Yeah. And also, like I would say to
any of the older generations whoare calling you a helicopter
parent, maybe someday you shouldget curious and sit down with
your kids and ask them what happened when you were paying
attention. I don't think they could handle.
It because I guarantee you everyone of them has a story.
Yeah, we, yeah, we've got some stories.

(01:04:49):
I mean, I think I protected myself.
I think either I've blacked it all out.
But even just thinking about thepeople around you and the things
that have happened to the peoplearound you, the things that you
know about, yeah. And being like, thank God that
didn't happen to me. Yeah, but that doesn't mean it
won't happen to my babies, right?
I mean, I have, I have some fucked up stories, but I have

(01:05:11):
some friends with some horrifying stories, horrifying
stories. And I'm like that just as easily
could have been me. Yeah, the the me walking around
with fuck off on my face really serves me well, it sounds like.
Yeah, I'm like, thank God that Iprotected myself so much that

(01:05:32):
maybe I had no friends, but like, at least I wasn't, you
know, but. Look at you, You're safe.
Safe and it took me a long time to like really experience other
things, but you know, it happened when it was supposed to
happen. Yeah, and who needs to be in a
rush to do anything? No, I mean, that's part of it
of, of not rushing their adolescence and their their

(01:05:54):
innocence. That's very important to me.
Of like of keeping them innocent, yeah, but not
ignorant. Well, and also age appropriate
independence, I feel like, I feel like our generation was
really pushed to be independent early, early.
And I believe that independence is a very important tool for

(01:06:16):
children. It has to be age appropriate.
It has to correspond with where they are at developmentally,
where is their frontal lobe. What?
Kind of independence can you give them when they don't have
the ability to make smart decisions?
You can't give them free rein and then be like, Oh my God, I
can't believe they fucked up. What's wrong with them?

(01:06:38):
I mean. We got to experience age
appropriate moment actually today real time with Sawyer, who
is he's never, my kids know whenwhen we draw or write, it's on a
piece of paper. They've never drawn on books or
walls or anything like that. They're also like very
fastidious human beings, which is its own special unique thing.

(01:07:01):
Kind of like get dirty. And they're like, EW, yeah.
I'm like, OK, well, great. Ride a bike.
No, OK. But Sawyer had taken a pen and
was drawing. We had like little books out and
he drew for the first time in his almost five years on like a
book and I and 'cause I wasn't, I was like getting ready for the

(01:07:22):
day. And I went over and I said, oh
hey babe, like that's a book. We can draw in our coloring
books on pieces of paper Ray, but this, this is not where
we're drawing. We had done it to like 3 books
and now of course they're books that we were like trying to give
away, right? They're like.
I was going to say it was all your Acatar books.

(01:07:43):
No, yeah. They're like his books,
honestly, they're his books. So at the end of the day,
they're his. So like go for it, I guess.
But I was just and what, what surprised me, and I've never
seen this color in him was embarrassment.
And he got mad 1st And I was like, it's, it's you're OK, I'm

(01:08:05):
not mad. Like I'm not mad and it's
totally fine. But he threw, I was like, let's
go get changed for the day. He did.
I was like sitting in his room waiting for him and I was like,
sorry, come here. And he's like, no.
And I was like, OK, but we got to go do stuff.
So like, let's it's really OK. You're not in trouble.
Let me reiterate, you're not in trouble.

(01:08:27):
I am not mad. You're not in trouble because
that was my like, you know, listen, he's I am too trusting
of a 5 year old. He was.
And then he comes in and he looks at me and he's like, I
threw the pen down the the stairs and I was like, yeah, you
tell it. I was like, OK Pen, I was like,
you feel better. And he was like, no.
And then he started to cry. And so he gave him hug to get

(01:08:48):
the. Shame out.
For and I. Was just like, oh man, I am
seeing so many colors of you right now, which is so new and I
think new for him too. Like he was just like, he's
never been like, in that moment of me being like, hey, babe,
we're not doing that. That's not it.
He was just like, yeah, shame just.
And he was like, what is this feeling like, Feeling like he

(01:09:10):
didn't know what to do. And so it was so interesting.
I was just like, oh, and also shame on me.
Like, not shame on me. That's not.
I trust my kids. They know the boundaries in the
home. And so yeah, I let them roam
free roam around the house. I mean, it is their home.
It's their home. It's their home, man.
And like all the things that areimportant for them not to be a

(01:09:31):
part of, right? Which really isn't anything in
my. I mean, like, I'm trying to
think of like, what's inappropriate.
Yeah, a vibrator. That's a way they can't get to
that. Yeah, I would say not age
appropriate. Yeah, they don't need to know
about the. Knives are high, yeah, but
they're also like, yeah, they know we Pat cooks a lot.
So we talk about, you know, it'shot, this is hot, this is sharp,

(01:09:53):
all things. Yeah.
So I, I'm very trusting if my kids in the home.
But now I have to just be aware that Sawyer's still learning
some stuff because he's not evenfive.
Yeah, I think I love him, littlebuddy.
Yeah. Being there for that, witnessing
him, like, see that. But I also thought in that

(01:10:14):
moment I was like if I got rageyat him.
All he would do is suppress that.
All he would do is suppress that.
Yeah. Like that was a moment if it not
for him, but for me of like whata calm parent can be.
Yeah. I think like the older
generation looks at the jet, quote UN quote, gentle
parenting, and they're like, oh,a bunch of softies.

(01:10:35):
And I was like there is a difference between gentle
parenting and passive parenting.Yes, and also like.
Look at how many maladjusted adults we have in this world
because they were only ever met with anger and rage and learned
how to suppress their shame and their feelings and now they

(01:10:57):
don't fucking know how to deal with their feelings And we have
a whole generation of serial killers Like let's just maybe
make smarter. Decisions 70s were a dark time.
80s, Nineties. Yeah, well, thousands.
It's interesting to look at all those.
And like all of them had their own very specific darkness.
Yeah, right. Like all the all the 70s,

(01:11:18):
seventies, when serial killers really came out.
Yeah. Like we had the Ted Bundy.
We had the Zodiacs, we had that boom.
I mean, yeah, it was like the. I5 Killer.
The I5, the Green River Killer, like we had, I mean, which, you
know, I love a good Murderino moment, but.
Then I think. I read the I5 killer like maybe
10 times like. Oh, I haven't.

(01:11:39):
Way too many times I can't read it.
I can listen to it, but I cannotread Oh.
I had the paperback. Oh nice, I can.
Still picture it like like photostraight out of the 80s.
I mean it probably was printed in the 80s.
I would. Imagine.
But because it happened in the 70s, that's where that started
to come out. Yeah, I wore that book down too.

(01:12:02):
I like I think the spine broke ended up breaking because I had
read it so many. Times, but then also yeah, then
like 80s was like drugs rock'n'roll sax.
The 90s was just like, let's just F it all, yeah, let's see
how much destruction we can do and get away with, yeah.
And then this early 2000s was just like, let's be chic and.

(01:12:24):
Let's hyper. Let's hyper sexualize
everything. The smaller the skirt, yeah, the
thicker the Ugg boot. Yeah, Oh my God, the.
The chunkier the jewelry. Yeah.
The dark skin, just like well. The fake Yeah, all the fake Tan
the. Fake tanning that happened.
What a time, what a time the thechunky blonde highlights.

(01:12:47):
Oh, man, I wanted strike the blonde.
Strike the Kelly Clarkson. Yeah, I wanted the Kelly
Clarkson so bad. I wanted the dark, dark brown.
Yeah. Light blonde, Yeah.
Red streak. Yeah.
Get out to me. Never got it.
Oh. Sorry babe, you want it now.
We can do that for you. We can give inner Torres.
Red, as I've found out 'cause I've I've been blonde.

(01:13:09):
Hated it. I have been super, super dark
that I can pull off 'cause she just looks hella Italian.
Yeah, and blonde is like red stays in my hair forever.
Can't get out of it 'cause my head, my hair like pulls red
anyway. Like it's there's some auburny
to it. So yeah, if I put red is less
stays I'm just like a redhead forever.

(01:13:30):
Which is funny 'cause my brotherhad his two little girls, 1 is
blonde, Corinne's blonde, his wife, but my second niece is
Redhead and they were like what?And but what's funny is Thin has
dark brown hair, Sawyer's blonde, Pat and I have dark hair
and people were like, what's that about?
Well, Ross was blonde when he was born and I have red my hair.

(01:13:53):
Both of my children were blonde or no.
Both my children had dark hair when they were born and then
went blonde. Roslyn went brown, I think
around 10. But I was the same I I was like
blonde. I was a Blondie and then went.
I want to keep Sawyer blonde. I'm like, gonna, I don't know,
rub a lemon on his head and stick him out in the sun 'cause
I'm like, just. Shampoo his head with hydrogen.

(01:14:14):
Production, Yeah, like do not godark, babe, don't do it.
He's almost 5 and. He's still he's.
Dirk, he's he's, he's sandy blonde.
He's still I, he's still in the blonde category.
But like, I'm like, put your head out in the window.
Just get that. More.
Alternate race please. Yes.
Oh my God, stomp 'cause yeah, I won't recognize him if he's not.

(01:14:36):
I'm gonna hate it. I'm.
Picturing him right now with dark haired it's.
So it's gross. It's like he's just a little
man. EW, no.
He has to stay blonde. If you're listening to her.
Stay blonde. Stay blonde.
Your Mama wants you to stay blonde.
Thank you. Anyway, I can't wait to I, I
mean, I don't know how many teenage listeners or parents

(01:14:57):
teenage parent listeners. Parents of teenagers.
God, that was hard for me to say.
We've obviously been talking. For 500 years, yeah.
'Cause summertime. Summertime.
And living is busy fucking insane.
But it'd be interesting to have a conversation about that and be

(01:15:17):
like, what are some tips and tricks?
Yeah, and, and I want to hear other people.
I feel like we're so we're all so we're all doing the best we
can in a fucking vacuum. And like, we're relying on
podcasts and we're relying on the doctor Becky's of Instagram
and we, we have these resources that we're relying on, but like
I'm I so rarely get to speak to other parents about what they're

(01:15:41):
doing. Yeah.
So rarely. And that to me is more
important. I can watch all the Doctor Becky
videos and I get great information from them.
Great information. I can watch the John Deloney's.
I can like, I can like, consume the stuff that I think is
valuable. But if I don't know what's
happening in my community, I can't set my child up for
success. Like one of one of her friends

(01:16:03):
from elementary school who is a male whose mom is a friend of
mine. We were talking about, you know,
how they navigate, how they navigate time at home.
And she was one of the ones thatwas like, I, you know, I'm
texting with the mom of his girlfriend who is like, oh, you
know, they're not allowed in thebedroom.

(01:16:24):
And she's like, oh, well, so then that's why they always come
over here because our rules at our house are different.
Just be safe. Just be smart.
Yeah, just communicate. Just communicate.
Yeah. And so that's when I was like,
oh, well, also, like, that mom didn't realize that she probably
should have asked what the ruleswere at their house.
Right. Like, there is that, too.
But now I'm like, OK, this is where people in my community are

(01:16:45):
with how they're parenting theirchildren.
And that tells me what I need tofocus on with mine and, like,
what the parameters are that I'mworking with him.
I'm not sending her to a Catholic school where everyone
is hella repressed and like lashing out and acting out at
every possible turn. She's in a progressive community

(01:17:05):
which means that like I'm not saying 1 is better than the
other, but I almost have to plan.
I almost have to be more proactive because I only know
how to parent from a perspectiveof hella repressed kids that
just act the fuck out because they are so repressed.
I don't know what it's like to be in in like a more progressive
community where kids are are. Smarter than I was, Smarter than

(01:17:28):
I am. Yeah, sometimes.
So like the only way that I can prepare myself for that is to
know what's going on around me. And I get access to that so
infrequently. So yes, please, if you are a
parent of a teenager or a, or a parent of a now adult, well, I
want to hear about this. I want to know.
What are we going to look forward to?
What are the things that you're proud of yourself for doing?
What are the things that you've looking back, you feel like

(01:17:49):
we're mistaken? Yeah.
What did you? Learn from.
Well, and like, I have the kind of the opposite problem with
Finn's school is it's a lot of non-english speaking.
Yeah. Community who do not want people
at their house. Yeah.
And so like, that was like that kid who ran up to me, little
Carlos. And he was like, my mom doesn't

(01:18:11):
let me go to houses. It's a special occasion because
that's a birthday. But like, who?
He got invited to Finn's birthday.
Yeah. He did not come.
They did not RSVB. I sent like actually it was one
of our listeners, Michaela, thank you.
She was like, listen, this is what I did because she listened
to the podcast and she was like,this is what I did.
I sent I sent the things, right?I put the invites, I gave them

(01:18:36):
to the kid. Kid handed them out to his
people on the invite. I put RSVP for the cuz it wasn't
at my house, was it my parents house.
And so I wasn't gonna put my parents address on on these
random things that hopefully made it to the homes I didn't
know right. And so I said RSVP to get the

(01:18:57):
address. And so the people smart.
Yeah. And so.
Oh my God, that's so smart. Yeah.
And so the people who were gonnashow up, you know, text me,
which then I had numbers of these pairs.
So then you have contact, directcontact.
Direct contact with them and it was so nice and I had like 4
people show up and from his class.

(01:19:18):
But like all you know, there's abunch that didn't RSVP, never
heard from them and they were all of the non-english speaking
families. And that was a bummer for Finn
because those are some of his best buds.
And it's like like you know, we ended school and I was like I
don't have a can't contact them.And you know, he's like, did you

(01:19:38):
hear from Carlos? And I was like, no, I haven't
made a play, sorry. Buddy.
Oh, sorry. Such a different world.
Yeah. And so I was just like, I don't
know how to, you know, get to know my community.
Yeah, because everybody's real closed off.
Yeah, well, and school policies are so different now.
I mean like which I respect and I understand.

(01:19:59):
But like, we didn't know his teacher was pregnant.
Because of HIPAA, right? They weren't allowed to tell
anybody. Yeah.
Well, then she left like a monthout of school to go on maternity
leave. We also didn't know that was
happening. I the only reason I knew it was
happening is because I'm a docent, an art docent.
And I was like, hey, I'd love tolike, come in.
And she's like, oh, that's great, because that's my last

(01:20:20):
day. And I was like, oops, what
excuse. Excuse me.
She's like, oh, yeah, I'm in being induced on Thursday.
I was like, what? Who's watching?
Who's teaching my cat? Who's watching?
The kids. Who's watching the kids like and
it was a lovely lady who but I didn't know this lady.
I still don't know who what, butanyway, it's hard.

(01:20:41):
I mean the only. Reason that we have we both
years that she was in pre-K the parents got together and and
formed a WhatsApp group for the parents of the classroom.
But independent of that, no communication.
We get like the Friday e-mail from the school of like, here's
all the events for the coming week, but like no classroom

(01:21:03):
level communication. Yeah, it's I think I mean, and
I'll be that parent, I'll be a room parent.
But even that was like wasn't anoption.
It didn't seem like unless I'm just missing something which is
possible cuz you know I'm cuckoobananas, but.
When also when you're not connected, you don't know what
you're missing and what you're not missing because you're not
connected. I mean luckily this last year

(01:21:24):
they came up with like an app for the school smart where the
teacher could communicate, send like an instant message to
everybody. She didn't utilize it though.
Yeah, I'm not surprised in this part of the country, right.
But also I feel like the PNW is like the last to adhere to stuff
like that. Yeah, where they're like new
technology. Oh, I can't.
But so hopefully his next teacher will be a little bit

(01:21:46):
more forward. But here's a here's, here's a,
we're going to go way over now. But like Finn, I think has a
little crush on his teacher for next year.
And I, I was like trying to playit really cool.
Yeah. Because I was like, and it's not
100% right because, but the but his kindergarten teacher was on

(01:22:11):
the softball team. Her kid was on Sawyer's softball
team. Anyway, she's like, oh, I looked
at the roster and I think he's in this classroom.
And then I got the yearbook and I was like, oh, Finn, by the
way, I think you're in this teacher's class.
And he was like, what do you mean?
I was like, what do you mean? What do I mean you're going to
be in her class? And he started to like, go like,
like, like. Air.

(01:22:32):
Himself out of his like his shirt, he's like, my heart is
beating. And he said he's like, my heart
is beating so fast. And I was like, Oh well, tell me
more. What?
Why do you think that he was like.
And he didn't really want to talk about it.
Yeah, obviously. But it was I was like, do we
like her? And he was like, yes.
And I was like, OK, bud, So now he might not learn anything in

(01:22:54):
second grade, but like, like he might be.
And I also does he know she's a cutie?
Does she? Does he know what a crush is
like? Does he know that he has a crush
on her? Or is he just?
Like having a physiological response and he's like, what is
this? I don't know, seeing that
there's why I'm like, what do I talk about?
Yeah, like if you could give me advice because I'm asking what?
Like what's when this naturally comes up again when we're about

(01:23:17):
to start school? Like, how do I talk to him about
that? He knows about boyfriends and
girlfriends. Right, I would say what do you
think about her? What do you like about her?
Like he said, he likes her. What do you like about her?
And just like see, ask the open-ended questions and see,
because what do you like about her is such a it could be
anything. I like that she has art time
everyday. I like that she plays with kids

(01:23:38):
on the playground. I like that she's you know what?
Who knows what it will be, but she.
Does is really fun? Right, I feel like you could
probably start to get some context clues from asking
questions like that. I did.
That's just always. My default is to ask open-ended
questions. Yeah, I'm just like, I want to
guide him. Rather than than being the
parent, that's like, oh, do you have a crush?

(01:23:59):
And like immediately inciting shame.
Do that in embarrassment. And when I have heard a
grandparent be like, who's your girlfriend?
I'm like, no, Nope, we don't need girlfriends.
No, we have friends. Yep.
And friends can be boys, girls and anything in between, but
we're not going to be doing that.
No, we're not going to be doing that at any point.
Because he already gets that from the watching the movies

(01:24:21):
that he watches. I mean, it's just pumped onto
them as much as possible as like, because he even said he
was like, so you guys were boyfriend and girlfriend and
then you got married. Yeah.
Like, he's he, he likes chronological.
He's like. Dot does the same thing.
Yes, yeah, Sawyer. Sawyer asked me to marry him
this morning. Oh, buddy, because he just loves
you so much. He's.
Like, Mama, will you marry me? You're like, babe, It's like,

(01:24:42):
yeah. You got it.
You don't. You got it because you don't get
it. Yeah, you got it.
Because you don't get it. Yeah.
So I was like, yeah, babe. Because he always sees the
picture. We have a wedding photo in her
bedroom, and he's like, because you look like a Princess.
Oh, I know, buddy. They're very sweet.
Because Finn used to say the same shit.
But yeah, that's that's going tobe a new moment where I also

(01:25:05):
have to get all the adults in his life on the same page, which
most of them are. Most of them are.
But yeah, I don't want to do that.
Like even a girlfriend. No.
You got any? Girlfriends.
No, just don't do that. They just have friends.
They're just kids. Let him just be kids.
He's eight. Yeah.
Almost called him six. Sorry, Ben, he worked very hard.

(01:25:30):
An age. Yeah, he's an age.
Anyway, if that's not. Parenting in that show, man, I
don't know. Anyway, anyway, that was doozy.
I mean, what did we even talk? About who knows, but also but
also everything. As per Yuge As per Yuge yeah, I
want to hear of parenting. Tips.
Same. I want to hear.

(01:25:51):
I want to hear all the. Things like let us grow the
community so that we have, we'reless fearful and we're more
educated on the different ways. Yes, on the different ways.
Because it's all different. If I were raising these girls in
New York, I would be parenting them differently than I am
parenting them here. When I was parenting Roslyn in
Indonesia, I was parenting her differently.

(01:26:11):
We had far more strict safety precautions.
You know, like it's just you. There's so much about your
environment that influences the way that you navigate.
And so I want to know, what do you do?
What, what is your environment? Where in the world are you?
What is the environment around you?
What is the social environment in the school?
Oh. My God.

(01:26:32):
How do you do it? How do you do?
It how do you do? How do we survive all of this?
But do we survive? And this is where you can write
to us, right? You can e-mail us at
[e-mail] on Instagram, send us DM.
It's nothing. It's everything pod after you
hit that follow button and. Come to our Facebook.

(01:26:54):
Group yeah and post on our wall is that.
Something it's our thing feed. Post feed, make a comment.
Shit, I don't know. I.
Don't know what it is anymore. I.
Don't know, poke us. I never got that either.
I'm like, what am I poking? It's just, it's just a way for
boys who can't use their words to flirt with you, in my
experience. I thought everything was dumb.

(01:27:18):
All right. Well, on that note, see you next
Tuesday.