February 19, 2025 • 37 mins
Kai Van Leuven reflects on his journey of leaving the Mormon church and embracing Christianity, using Christian music and the Bible to heal and deepen his connection with God, describing it as a personal revival. Di, a pastor at Venture Church, explains revival as a spiritual reawakening, especially significant in Seattle, where faith is less common. Kai shares a transformative moment during a revival service when he received a sign from God, strengthening his belief. The speaker recalls their spontaneous decision to be baptized during a church service, marking a key moment in their new life with Jesus. They emphasize baptism as a symbol of inner transformation and encourage others to move past negative influences, especially from the ex-Mormon community, and embrace positive, faith-driven changes.
Contact us:
Email: jesusformormons@gmail.com
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/share/g/kxt1hS692rDMcJi8/
Website: https://jesusformormons.com/
Contact us:
Email: jesusformormons@gmail.com
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/share/g/kxt1hS692rDMcJi8/
Website: https://jesusformormons.com/
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
After leaving the Mormon Church and getting saved in a
mainstream Christian church, I found myself in a church that
was full of revival, and that was something I was
not familiar with at all, being Mormon. Hi, I am
kay van Leeuwn. I spent over thirty years in the
(00:24):
Mormon Church, and this is what I did after leaving.
Speaker 2 (00:29):
And I'm Diabeels.
Speaker 3 (00:30):
I'm a pastor at Venture Church in Washington, and mostly
your friend belong for the ride as usual.
Speaker 1 (00:39):
Die, you are my Die is great. She is not
just she is recording from her home. She brought home
a camera. This is a holiday and she brought home
a camera and a mic and is set up at
her house.
Speaker 2 (00:55):
Committed Kai, I.
Speaker 1 (00:56):
Mean yes, yes, all right, Oh today we're going to
talk about this idea of revival. And after leaving the church,
I was in kind of this this weird in between
area right where I had left the Mormon Church and
(01:18):
was trying to kind of leave that old life behind.
And then I had this new relationship with God. And
you look at all of the things that you did
in the past, and you say, huh, I wonder what
to do with all of these things? So, like, what
(01:40):
do I do about baptism, What do I do about
my temple endowment? What do I do about all the
things that I've taught to my kids while being in
the Mormon Church? What is how do I deal with
all the struggles of you know, leaving that old life
(02:01):
and starting a new life in Christ. And so we're
going to kind of get into that a little bit today. Okay,
So so I had, let's catch up in the story,
left the church, I had fought against God, kind of
went back and forth on what my relationship with God
(02:24):
is if God exists, decided to enter to give my
life to Christ, and was saved, and then we catch
up to where we are at in the story today. Okay,
was that redundant die?
Speaker 3 (02:38):
No? This is part of the fabric that's woven in
behind your story, Like what you know, you made big moves,
but then what's made you who you are today? Part
of it is your Mormon background. But now what's forming
you today?
Speaker 2 (02:57):
I like it?
Speaker 1 (02:58):
Yeah, So I think one of the things is I
like to be all in on things. Same, So what
I decided to do, Yes, I could see that die,
I could.
Speaker 3 (03:10):
See you being all the way.
Speaker 1 (03:14):
Yep, You're You're all over. Okay. So I decided to
try to kind of rewire all of these negative thoughts
that I had. One of the ways that I did
that is I work pretty much, I work construction all
the time, and I decided to listen and this, Hey,
I don't recommend this, maybe I do. I decided to
(03:38):
listen to Christian music for ten hours per day, okay,
talking about going all in, Yeah, just the way to
kind of drown out a lot of these negative thoughts
that I had. And if you're if you're familiar with
the story of you know, where I came from and
(04:00):
where I was at. If you're not, feel free to
listen to some of the earlier episodes. But I wanted
to drown out all of those thoughts and become fully
immersed in this Christian lifestyle that I had chosen. And
so I remember listening to Christian music, listening to the
Bible on you know, through audio, doing all of those things,
(04:26):
like like I said, eight to ten hours a day,
and just to try to kind of drown out the
negative the negative thoughts that I had. And I'll tell
you it was a really good experience for me in
my life, Like it was very healing to try to
like fully be immersed in this and fully live it.
(04:48):
I also listened to the BAMA podcast quite a bit,
so that's b E. M A. You can google that
or we could put it in the show notes. So
great podcast. Marty Solomon who came in spoke at at
Venture Church, and so I was in this state of
I would say revival, and I was trying to be revived.
(05:13):
I was trying to put some life back in myself.
And so I'm doing this. I'm fully immersed in Christianity
and just trying to kind of find out where I
fall in this whole thing. And at the same time,
(05:35):
your guys's church, Venture Church, or maybe the charismatic Pentecostal
movement is also experiencing revival. Die, can you talk about
like what that means, Like what is revival? Because as
an ex Mormon, or even as a Mormon, I had
no idea like what that means.
Speaker 3 (05:59):
Well, I think if I give it the stereotypical definition
first and then maybe modify it. The stereotypical picture that
someone gets in their head is this crazy, wild charismatic
church where everybody is jumping up and down during the
singing portion and the services go hours. Maybe maybe you've
(06:22):
watched someone out there has watched like the Christian Broadcast
Network TBN, and they've seen all kinds of weird stuff
where people, you know, are crying or laughing or falling
all over the floors or laying on the floors or whatever.
And you know, I just like to say the human
reaction to the presence of God is all over the place.
(06:44):
But I would actually modify that definition because to revive something,
it has to have already been alive and sort of
died or started to die or fall asleep, and so
it's a reawakening. So Adventure, you know, through our history
(07:05):
of twenty years, you know, we've seen moments or segments
of time where physical healings are more prevalent, or people
are finding Jesus in a large volume or something unexpected,
like you know, we have a message and then at
(07:26):
the end of the message, we offer an opportunity for
people to respond, and they respond in droves, and then
they don't want to leave those are That's kind of
more what Venture has experienced a lot of people finding Jesus,
a lot of people hungering for more of God's presence
in their life. To overcome depression, addiction, loneliness. It's brought
(07:49):
life inside of them. Really literally, they are alive now
because of Jesus, not because of themselves.
Speaker 2 (07:57):
And I would just add to that.
Speaker 3 (07:58):
I think, you know, part of our relationship with God
includes prayer, and that tends to be where most followers
of the Lord are really anemic or apathetic.
Speaker 2 (08:12):
Prayer is just sort of this well.
Speaker 3 (08:14):
I mean, I pray when I need help, or I
say a five minute prayer every day, or I pray
before my meals. But that is a little anemic, lacking
in power. And so there's this like renewed desire to
talk to God and know him.
Speaker 2 (08:31):
How's that? How's that prayer?
Speaker 1 (08:33):
I think that's really good. And what I think is
good about it is I think we have to set
the stage for what Seattle faith culture looks like as well.
I think that would maybe give some context. So Seattle
least churched area in the United States. Yeah, the least
(08:54):
faith people who align with faith in the whole United States.
So when I was growing up, my best friend, first
time I met him, we were hanging out of sixth grade.
We were playing at his house and he said, hey,
do you believe in God. Sixth grader said, yeah, this
is well, I don't. I don't think anything exists outside
(09:15):
of this. I said, okay, like, thanks for letting me know.
I would say that is a Seattle culture thing. There
are a lot of atheists, there are a lot of
people who are very apathetic towards belief like, so I
think it's important to set the stage of what that
looks like.
Speaker 3 (09:34):
Well, and if I can just add to that, if
you just do like a scan across the country. There
are so many people in the South that attend church,
but their lives are different outside of church, but it's
sort of socially expected or they've been grown they've grown
up going to church.
Speaker 2 (09:53):
That's what our family does. We go to church.
Speaker 3 (09:55):
And so in Seattle, where there's not people going to church,
and they haven't and their parents haven't, and maybe even
their grandparents have it haven't when they react, when they respond,
when they asked Jesus into their life, it's a dramatic difference.
So the dramatic change is really sort of what gets
(10:19):
people's attention, like, whoa revival is happening there? And I'm
not downplaying and saying it's not I'm saying, Yeah, it's
noticeable when a place where like six to eight percent
of the people claim a relationship with God's that's why
in the Okay, I pulled a twenty sixteen demographic study
(10:40):
for the four miles around Venture Church. In twenty seventeen,
I pulled it and there were there are forty thousand
people or back then there were. Now there's more that
live in just a four mile radius around the church,
and thirty seven thousand of them claimed zero faith. So
that leaves three thousand people to claim all faced Hindu, Mormon, Catholic, Christian, whatever.
(11:05):
That's that's that gives you a picture of so when
people find Jesus, Like, you know, our church is almost
two thousand now in an area where in the four
four mile square radius that.
Speaker 2 (11:17):
Only three thousand people claim any fate.
Speaker 3 (11:19):
So we bumped that number up, which is great, but
that's dramatic.
Speaker 2 (11:24):
It gets attention.
Speaker 1 (11:26):
Yeah, can we just say you're a rock star and
I don't suck up to people, but come on, because
it's in a really a place where religion is not
Like I worked in a big company forever, no one
I knew went to church, Like no, like we're talking zero,
and so I think the idea of revival in an
(11:48):
area like that is unlikely, which I think makes it
even more like exciting. Yeah, and I even look at myself,
like me becoming religious again or being in a relationship
with anything outside of what I could see, I would
say at lots of points in my journey was also unlikely.
(12:13):
So I think, So I'm in this phase where I'm
really trying to immerse myself in Christianity after being saved,
and I'm doing I'm coaching a lot, and I think
it's important to pick up in the story I'm coaching
a lot as a way to kind of help myself
through this time. So I'm a wrestling guy, I'm coaching
(12:36):
a lot, and we're going to pick up into a
really good story about something that I feel as a
miracle that happened as I'm coaching and later on that night.
So there was kind of this revival that was happening.
And I like the way that Die paints it. Maybe
as a person who sits in the pews. They don't
(12:57):
have pews, so when I sits in the chairs, how
I viewed it is like people who are in who
how do I say this die people who have like
high profile jobs, adults that have, you know, big tech
(13:19):
jobs that have you know, all of these things are
like moving in these miraculous ways and wanting to experience
God more and more. And you're seeing that like week
after week, and a church that is completely packed all
the way out the door, parking lots full in an
(13:40):
area that does not church people. And so I'm kind
of part of this this time, and I'm like, wow,
this is really cool, like to see God move in
an area that I grew up in that I know
is not very religious. And I'm going and I'm coaching,
and they had a prayer and worship night and I
coached the day but the night of and so I
(14:02):
know I'm gonna kind of be late. It's going to
be kind of this weird experience where I'm going to
be late to this church thing that I'm that I'm
going with some anticipation for. And so I go and
I'm like yelling the whole time, right because I'm coaching.
I don't know, I probably shouldn't yell so much, but
I do. I go to this church service, this revival service,
(14:27):
and I pull up there is no parking in the
parking lot and I'm like, dude, I'm already late. I'm
already like five minutes late. So I double park and
I said, God, you know, if I'm supposed to be here,
will you just like make that known, like because I
love testing God in these ways, I said, God, just
(14:48):
make it known to me, Like I want to experience
whatever I'm supposed to experience here, but I also kind
of want something, you know, for you to show me that.
So I double park a bunch of people put my
carm park like I don't know, it's all It's all good, right,
(15:08):
Uh go inside, and I said, And as I'm walking
like towards the door, I'm like, oh, I'm late. But
I said, God, if I want, if you want to
show up here, have this song I speak Jesus to
be the song that's playing. As I walk in, I'm like, oh, okay,
maybe that will happen. I walk into the auditorium, I
(15:32):
put my hand on the door, and the first note
starts playing on the song. Yeah, God, right on, let's go.
So so I'm like, gosh, that's kind of a cool sign.
And I said thank you, like I was looking with
anticipation of experiencing something and that like totally happened, which
(15:56):
is really awesome. I walk in and I find my
wife because she's obviously there on time, right, we took
separate cars. I sit with her, and I'm just like,
and it's packed, Like, how many people can you guys
fit in there in your.
Speaker 2 (16:12):
Own seven hundred roughly?
Speaker 1 (16:15):
What it's that high? Six oh my gosh.
Speaker 2 (16:18):
Six eighty probably, but yeah.
Speaker 1 (16:20):
Yeah, so we're talking like a Wednesday night.
Speaker 3 (16:24):
Wednesday nights, we take out like the first two rows
of chairs so people have a place to respond.
Speaker 2 (16:29):
So let's say there's six fifty in there.
Speaker 3 (16:32):
I didn't I thought it was like three hundred, like
it probably wasn't totally full.
Speaker 1 (16:37):
No, it was full. It was full, standing room only,
all that stuff. I mean it was like packed packed.
Speaker 3 (16:45):
Okay, great, well you were there on a night where
we did baptisms, so that's a whole section of chairs
we take out to get that big baptism tank in
there too.
Speaker 2 (16:52):
Anyways, continue you're.
Speaker 1 (16:54):
You're always so modest, you'd be like, yeah, there were
three thousand people there, No everybody, No, that's not anyways,
So there was, but it was packed. It was like
standing room only. Type situation. So I find my way
in there, next next to my wife, and it was
(17:14):
like you could feel like it was very electric, like
you could feel God's presence in the room. And I
was just like there and I was like, you know what, God,
if there is something? And it was hosted by yours
truly diabels. And Die was up there talking and she's like,
(17:34):
you know, if you came here to receive something, pray
to the Lord and maybe you know he'll answer. I
know he'll answer something along those lines. And I said, okay, God.
So I prayed, and I didn't really have anything in
my mind, like I didn't really have anything that I
came with. I just came wanting to experience. And so
(17:55):
I remember praying and kind of you know when you're
praying and you're kind of like you don't have any agenda,
you don't have any like purpose, You're just like I
don't know, like God, I just I'm here. I just
want to be a vessel for you, Like I just
want to be like that was the term that came
(18:16):
to my mind. I'm like, I don't really use this
term very much. Okay, I want to be a vessel
for you. I want to like know you better and
reach people around me who are hurting, Like like I was,
I want to just be a vessel for you, simple prayer,
you know, put it out there. Then Di Biel gets
(18:36):
Diebeels gets on as the host and says that exact
word vessel, like we're all here as a vessels of die.
Do you drop that often? Are you a vessel dropper?
Speaker 2 (18:49):
I know, I didn't even know I said that, but
I believe you.
Speaker 1 (18:54):
Okay. So I throws that out there and I'm like, okay,
well there you go. And so I felt like this
just heightened connection with God in that moment of like,
oh wow, maybe there is something different here today. And
so they go through the whole service. The service is great.
(19:15):
You guys do like an alter call, and I swear
the whole church response. I mean, it's like everyone comes
up and if you haven't seen this, it's a very
cool experience. It is not weird. It is not like
it's just a sovereign move of God where people say, hey,
(19:37):
I just want to know God better.
Speaker 2 (19:39):
It's genuine.
Speaker 1 (19:40):
It's genuine. It is not for show. It is not
for theatrics. It's literally just people saying I want to
experience God, and especially in a godless place or in
people who are in a place where people are going
through stuff. I think it's really powerful. So it's just
this whole flow, lot of people moving and they had baptisms.
(20:06):
And these baptisms are planned, right die Yeah, yep.
Speaker 3 (20:11):
Mostly there are lots of unplanned ones that jump in,
but yes, we start off with planned people.
Speaker 1 (20:18):
Yeah. So people say, hey, I want to renew my
relationship with Jesus. I just found a new relationship with
God and I want to, you know, renew that through baptism.
I think this is really important. Maybe we'll get to
this on the back end of this. Let's just tell
the story. Kai. So I'm watching these baptisms, and mind you,
(20:44):
I am fully dressed, like in churchish clothes, brand new
pair of pants on. I want to look snazzy. I
have a new shirt on. And people are getting baptists
and like, not like one or two people, I would say,
I don't know, fifteen people.
Speaker 2 (21:00):
Yeah, maybe I think that night was a pretty pretty
high number. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (21:04):
Yeah, and people just genuinely wanting to do people renewing
their I think your daughter got to rebaptized. I want
to say or and her husband. Yeah, so like a
lot of people are, you know, kind of experiencing this,
like I want to renew this or I feel I
(21:25):
feel motivated to do this, and so I'm standing there
and I'm watching it. I'm like, yeah, that's a great service.
And I'm watching it, and you know, I'm kind of
thinking in my mind about this this time, and I'm like, Kai,
you've kind of been through all this stuff and you
(21:47):
really want to turn the page on on your life.
You should probably just be baptized like right now. And
I'm just and it wasn't prompted. It wasn't like I
wasn't saying hey, k no one was working on me.
No one was saying anything to me. It was just
me standing there and watching this. And it's like, Ai,
(22:08):
you really need to turn the page on all of
that and walk this new life with Jesus. And I'm like, uh,
I'm not prepared, Like nobody knows this, nobody knows this
internal you know, wrestling and struggle that I'm like thinking
about doing this. And thankfully our good friend Sean King
(22:35):
was there and he's watching and I'm you know, and
I'm standing there and I said, Sean I just feel
that I need to be baptized. He's in full clothes,
I'm in full clothes, and I was just like, you know,
I just think it's something like really important. So this
spontaneous event where I asked my friend Sean King to
(23:00):
baptize me, and I'll tell you this was like a
very like beautiful moment for me. Those who are in
the Mormon Church kind of know the symbolism of baptism,
like that it is death and burial of your old
life and then becoming new. And so at that point
(23:22):
I was like, yeah, like, this is something that I
want for my life. And so here we have a
picture for those of you who are not just listening,
and this is me saying something. What's really beautiful about
this picture is we have the kids pastor that I love, Hayley. Here,
we have Sean King in the background who ended up
(23:45):
finding a shirt I think in the back so that
you could baptize me. And then we have Morgan Butcher.
Like all of these people who are I feel like
are part of my family are there and I was
not anticipating this during that day, but I'm so grateful
that there was just this environment that was there where
(24:08):
I said, gosh, I just want to like turn the
page and move forward, and so spontaneously with a brand
new pair of pants and dressed up. Hey, for those
of you who are looking, I'm a really ugly crier
and so hey, you get to see that in the
picture too.
Speaker 3 (24:25):
On the bright side, there's no chlorine in that tank,
so it didn't ruin your clothes.
Speaker 1 (24:30):
It didn't ruin my clothes, so hey, that's good. But
I just made this decision to become new in Jesus
and to be baptized, and so my friend Sean King
baptized me. And it was really just such a beautiful
(24:51):
experience and such a beautiful moment, and I felt like
I had left a lot of things behind with that moment.
I felt like this was part of my reprogramming of
negative negativity and nihilism was left, you know, at that moment.
(25:11):
And I'm just I don't know, I just I'm so
grateful for like that experience and the people who were
who were involved, you know, in that, and and that
God really showed up right that I said, hey, God,
show me that, like this is something I should do,
and He showed up in that moment. This is one
(25:33):
of the greatest Like this is this was one of
the most pivotal, pivotal and greatest moments of my conversion
was being was being baptized, and it was only God
who could do that. I want to talk about this
a little bit. This question that I had that I
didn't want to derail the story is about like baptism
(25:53):
and what it means, because from a Mormon perspective, baptism
is like you need it for salvation? What does that
look like in like for you, like what does what
does that even mean? Like should somebody be baptized as
it necessary? What does that mean to you?
Speaker 3 (26:14):
Like I mean, I would say, because it's not spelled
out in the Bible, you must be baptized in order
to go to heaven. The Bible just says, I mean,
Jesus says, I'm the way, the truth in life. No
one gets to Heaven but through me. So salvation is
the key to our relationship with Jesus, obviously, But eternity
(26:35):
baptism we say our language, not Christian language, but like
ventures language. We say, it's an outward way of expressing
what God is doing on the inside, and we do
it as an act of obedience because the Bible does
talk about baptism, and because even Jesus was baptized, and
then Jesus told his followers to go and baptize people.
(26:58):
So but I love that it If you think about it,
Jesus probably didn't have sign ups to come and be
baptized by him or by John the Baptist, or by
his disciples. These were spontaneous decisions, but it was a
culture of that.
Speaker 2 (27:14):
The Jewish culture was very much.
Speaker 3 (27:17):
About ritual cleansing, and so you have to be clean
before you can enter God's presence, and baptism just sort
of becomes this one and done, like you know, we've
we've now entered into a relationship with Jesus. Here's the
outward symbol of it. We're clean because Jesus is clean.
Speaker 1 (27:36):
Yeah, and I like the emphasis on it is not
necessary or required. I think that that's it's just something
that you can do as an maybe an outward expression
of an inward desire to follow Jesus. Right, That's something that.
Speaker 2 (27:53):
And we don't limit people there.
Speaker 3 (27:55):
There are some Christian traditions that say if you've ever
been baptized, you can never be baptized again.
Speaker 2 (28:02):
We don't limit people.
Speaker 1 (28:05):
I want.
Speaker 3 (28:05):
We try to create less rules adventure so if somebody
has if God's doing something in someone's life. So you
mentioned my daughter. She got baptized as probably like a
twelve year old before she went to college. She asked
us to baptize her again. She wanted to live for
Jesus in college. The reason that she got baptized in
(28:29):
the day you're mentioning is because her husband wanted to
be baptized, and so she just went in with him.
That was just like a cool thing for them to
stand in solidarity together.
Speaker 2 (28:37):
So you know, sometimes people.
Speaker 3 (28:40):
Choose to be baptized because they've been through a hard
season or they feel like I want to renew my
commitment to the Lord.
Speaker 2 (28:46):
And we just don't put a bunch of no's on things.
We just say, sure, if you want to get baptized again,
there's no harm in that. Yeah, it's my favorite thing
that I do, literally of my job. It's my favorite thing.
Speaker 1 (29:00):
Well I do you. You may or may not remember this,
but you were when me and when I baptized my son.
You were there. You were there with us, and so okay,
well that was pretty early on. So I was just like, wow,
that's that's kind of interesting. In our I wouldn't even
say we had a relationship then, I think I sent
(29:21):
you one email at that point.
Speaker 2 (29:22):
I mean, I know, I knew who you were.
Speaker 3 (29:24):
I knew who you were, and I knew that was
a big step for you, so I was going to
stand with you. And that's that's part of it too,
is like people are walking out this whole relationship with
God thing. All of us are, and we none of
us have it all figured out, so we just kind
of walk beside each other and help each other along.
Speaker 2 (29:43):
That's that's that's a cool thing.
Speaker 1 (29:46):
Yeah, And I think that I just look at where
I was in the beginning of this journey and then
where I was at and there's just so much change
that happen. That's why when I look at the ex
Mormon community has has a lot of negativity within it,
(30:08):
and there's a lot of hurt. There's a lot of
past hurt who have left, a lot of people who
have left where there's a lot of just hurt built
up inside of it. And whenever I see that, I
am I am so optimistic for people who have left
the church, Like I'm I'm I don't look at it
(30:29):
and say like those people are stuck in feeling that way.
I honestly feel like they are like one interaction away
from with God, not with me or this podcast or
another podcast, but one interaction with God away from a
(30:52):
relationship with him.
Speaker 2 (30:53):
Yeah, Like I.
Speaker 1 (30:55):
Honestly believe that. And I don't care if you are
the most hardened atheist ex Mormon, who is you know,
dropping an anti God meme every day? I don't know.
I just think that you are one. Like just God,
(31:16):
let me experience you show me what I need to
do in my life, Like you're really that close from
my from my perspective, because to me, like there's nothing
that is too big. There's there's no like circumstance that
is too big that the Lord cannot intervene, yeah, and
(31:36):
cannot like bring somebody back. Like that's really amen. Okay,
Well I wasn't trying to preach, but I'm just trying
to say, like that is honestly how I feel because
I look at where I was, especially in this story,
and I look at where where God you know, showed
up for me and where He's taken me, and I'm
(31:58):
just like so rightful for that die, I love it,
You're great.
Speaker 2 (32:06):
It's at Kai, big love for you and the fam.
Speaker 1 (32:10):
Yeah, And I just I think that in this next episode,
I'm going to kind of talk about talk about kind
of where it goes from there, what a new life
in Jesus looks like. But I think that this is
really important to talk about kind of these big moments
and talk about how Jesus moves and what and what
(32:31):
he can do with anybody, even in a with a
dark person, right me, Kai, you're not dark. Well, there
was a lot of times where it's pretty dark in
a place that isn't full of you know, a lot
of spirituality. God can move and I honestly believe that
(32:53):
that can happen, that that can in.
Speaker 3 (32:55):
Their pivotal moments because and I think this is important
to point out. We can just sit in the same
place that we've always been. And somebody once said the
definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and
over but expecting a different result. We can just sit
in pain and nurture it and feed it and pet
(33:17):
it and help it grow into a big, healthy monster.
Or we can say there's got to be something else.
I can do something different here so that decision to
begin a relationship with Jesus, the decision to get into
the baptism tank and make that a public thing. Those
are pivotal moments along the way. And then what you're
(33:38):
going to talk about next week is going to be
what came after that. Look at all the life you've
experienced and the freedom and the and finding happiness and
joy again and peace and all those things that you
were missing. So I think that's that's a cool process.
Speaker 1 (33:54):
Yeah, And I want to throw this out there if
there is something that I'll just be honest, I'm starting
to unfollow a lot of ex Mormon content. I'm just
gonna be honest. Sorry, some of these people are my friends,
but when I get on and I look at it,
(34:16):
it just brings me down like a lot. I think
that that can really be healthy in someone's journey, is
to kind of get outside of a lot of this
negative stuff that's just kind of kind of bring you down.
And I think that that's really important if you are
(34:37):
kind of struggling in this space, I think kind of
getting outside of it because even for me now, like
I'm like, man, I'm just not in this place anymore.
I'm not in this negative, like I hate the church
and i'm you know, because it just brings me down,
Like it just puts me in a really bad space.
And I think that can even be like an act
(35:00):
of faith and optimism for something better. Is if you
look at what you're consuming and you say, like I
want to move on from this.
Speaker 3 (35:12):
Which is why, which is why you asked me to
do this with you, to walk on this journey with
you as you share your story. You wanted to be
you wanted us to be a positive voice in what
can be a negative space.
Speaker 1 (35:27):
Yeah, yeah, definitely, And yeah, I just think it's really
really important that if there are kind of these negative
voices or negative themes, maybe you're having a good day
and then you listen to this stuff and it just
kind of brings you down. I would encourage you to
unfollow stuff to like that is an act of faith,
(35:50):
that's an act of like I just want to experience
something different, and I would just I would just encourage
my fellow ex Mormons to do that. All right, Well,
if you have any question like like share, subscribe, I
only have to say that, right, but if you have
the token, the token whatever, But if you have any
(36:14):
questions or you want to send something to us, you
can send us a message at Jesus from Mormons at
gmail dot com. I do love getting those. I think
that they're really fun for me to respond. I love
I just there are so many interesting people that you
run into.
Speaker 2 (36:34):
Yeah, makes this job. Tell us your story.
Speaker 1 (36:37):
People, Yeah, tell us your story. And yeah, I guess.
Do you have any parting comments or we are we
kind of on the on the end.
Speaker 2 (36:45):
No, I'm excited for next week.
Speaker 3 (36:47):
I'm excited to talk about what happens when you make
a a positive step or a healthy step or a
well I'm gonna trust you and see if you're real God,
and what what happens in my life.
Speaker 2 (36:58):
I'm here for let's do it.
Speaker 1 (37:01):
Let's do it all right, Well, love you guys, and
until next time,
After leaving the Mormon Church and getting saved in a
mainstream Christian church, I found myself in a church that
was full of revival, and that was something I was
not familiar with at all, being Mormon. Hi, I am
kay van Leeuwn. I spent over thirty years in the
(00:24):
Mormon Church, and this is what I did after leaving.
Speaker 2 (00:29):
And I'm Diabeels.
Speaker 3 (00:30):
I'm a pastor at Venture Church in Washington, and mostly
your friend belong for the ride as usual.
Speaker 1 (00:39):
Die, you are my Die is great. She is not
just she is recording from her home. She brought home
a camera. This is a holiday and she brought home
a camera and a mic and is set up at
her house.
Speaker 2 (00:55):
Committed Kai, I.
Speaker 1 (00:56):
Mean yes, yes, all right, Oh today we're going to
talk about this idea of revival. And after leaving the church,
I was in kind of this this weird in between
area right where I had left the Mormon Church and
(01:18):
was trying to kind of leave that old life behind.
And then I had this new relationship with God. And
you look at all of the things that you did
in the past, and you say, huh, I wonder what
to do with all of these things? So, like, what
(01:40):
do I do about baptism, What do I do about
my temple endowment? What do I do about all the
things that I've taught to my kids while being in
the Mormon Church? What is how do I deal with
all the struggles of you know, leaving that old life
(02:01):
and starting a new life in Christ. And so we're
going to kind of get into that a little bit today. Okay,
So so I had, let's catch up in the story,
left the church, I had fought against God, kind of
went back and forth on what my relationship with God
(02:24):
is if God exists, decided to enter to give my
life to Christ, and was saved, and then we catch
up to where we are at in the story today. Okay,
was that redundant die?
Speaker 3 (02:38):
No? This is part of the fabric that's woven in
behind your story, Like what you know, you made big moves,
but then what's made you who you are today? Part
of it is your Mormon background. But now what's forming
you today?
Speaker 2 (02:57):
I like it?
Speaker 1 (02:58):
Yeah, So I think one of the things is I
like to be all in on things. Same, So what
I decided to do, Yes, I could see that die,
I could.
Speaker 3 (03:10):
See you being all the way.
Speaker 1 (03:14):
Yep, You're You're all over. Okay. So I decided to
try to kind of rewire all of these negative thoughts
that I had. One of the ways that I did
that is I work pretty much, I work construction all
the time, and I decided to listen and this, Hey,
I don't recommend this, maybe I do. I decided to
(03:38):
listen to Christian music for ten hours per day, okay,
talking about going all in, Yeah, just the way to
kind of drown out a lot of these negative thoughts
that I had. And if you're if you're familiar with
the story of you know, where I came from and
(04:00):
where I was at. If you're not, feel free to
listen to some of the earlier episodes. But I wanted
to drown out all of those thoughts and become fully
immersed in this Christian lifestyle that I had chosen. And
so I remember listening to Christian music, listening to the
Bible on you know, through audio, doing all of those things,
(04:26):
like like I said, eight to ten hours a day,
and just to try to kind of drown out the
negative the negative thoughts that I had. And I'll tell
you it was a really good experience for me in
my life, Like it was very healing to try to
like fully be immersed in this and fully live it.
(04:48):
I also listened to the BAMA podcast quite a bit,
so that's b E. M A. You can google that
or we could put it in the show notes. So
great podcast. Marty Solomon who came in spoke at at
Venture Church, and so I was in this state of
I would say revival, and I was trying to be revived.
(05:13):
I was trying to put some life back in myself.
And so I'm doing this. I'm fully immersed in Christianity
and just trying to kind of find out where I
fall in this whole thing. And at the same time,
(05:35):
your guys's church, Venture Church, or maybe the charismatic Pentecostal
movement is also experiencing revival. Die, can you talk about
like what that means, Like what is revival? Because as
an ex Mormon, or even as a Mormon, I had
no idea like what that means.
Speaker 3 (05:59):
Well, I think if I give it the stereotypical definition
first and then maybe modify it. The stereotypical picture that
someone gets in their head is this crazy, wild charismatic
church where everybody is jumping up and down during the
singing portion and the services go hours. Maybe maybe you've
(06:22):
watched someone out there has watched like the Christian Broadcast
Network TBN, and they've seen all kinds of weird stuff
where people, you know, are crying or laughing or falling
all over the floors or laying on the floors or whatever.
And you know, I just like to say the human
reaction to the presence of God is all over the place.
(06:44):
But I would actually modify that definition because to revive something,
it has to have already been alive and sort of
died or started to die or fall asleep, and so
it's a reawakening. So Adventure, you know, through our history
(07:05):
of twenty years, you know, we've seen moments or segments
of time where physical healings are more prevalent, or people
are finding Jesus in a large volume or something unexpected,
like you know, we have a message and then at
(07:26):
the end of the message, we offer an opportunity for
people to respond, and they respond in droves, and then
they don't want to leave those are That's kind of
more what Venture has experienced a lot of people finding Jesus,
a lot of people hungering for more of God's presence
in their life. To overcome depression, addiction, loneliness. It's brought
(07:49):
life inside of them. Really literally, they are alive now
because of Jesus, not because of themselves.
Speaker 2 (07:57):
And I would just add to that.
Speaker 3 (07:58):
I think, you know, part of our relationship with God
includes prayer, and that tends to be where most followers
of the Lord are really anemic or apathetic.
Speaker 2 (08:12):
Prayer is just sort of this well.
Speaker 3 (08:14):
I mean, I pray when I need help, or I
say a five minute prayer every day, or I pray
before my meals. But that is a little anemic, lacking
in power. And so there's this like renewed desire to
talk to God and know him.
Speaker 2 (08:31):
How's that? How's that prayer?
Speaker 1 (08:33):
I think that's really good. And what I think is
good about it is I think we have to set
the stage for what Seattle faith culture looks like as well.
I think that would maybe give some context. So Seattle
least churched area in the United States. Yeah, the least
(08:54):
faith people who align with faith in the whole United States.
So when I was growing up, my best friend, first
time I met him, we were hanging out of sixth grade.
We were playing at his house and he said, hey,
do you believe in God. Sixth grader said, yeah, this
is well, I don't. I don't think anything exists outside
(09:15):
of this. I said, okay, like, thanks for letting me know.
I would say that is a Seattle culture thing. There
are a lot of atheists, there are a lot of
people who are very apathetic towards belief like, so I
think it's important to set the stage of what that
looks like.
Speaker 3 (09:34):
Well, and if I can just add to that, if
you just do like a scan across the country. There
are so many people in the South that attend church,
but their lives are different outside of church, but it's
sort of socially expected or they've been grown they've grown
up going to church.
Speaker 2 (09:53):
That's what our family does. We go to church.
Speaker 3 (09:55):
And so in Seattle, where there's not people going to church,
and they haven't and their parents haven't, and maybe even
their grandparents have it haven't when they react, when they respond,
when they asked Jesus into their life, it's a dramatic difference.
So the dramatic change is really sort of what gets
(10:19):
people's attention, like, whoa revival is happening there? And I'm
not downplaying and saying it's not I'm saying, Yeah, it's
noticeable when a place where like six to eight percent
of the people claim a relationship with God's that's why
in the Okay, I pulled a twenty sixteen demographic study
(10:40):
for the four miles around Venture Church. In twenty seventeen,
I pulled it and there were there are forty thousand
people or back then there were. Now there's more that
live in just a four mile radius around the church,
and thirty seven thousand of them claimed zero faith. So
that leaves three thousand people to claim all faced Hindu, Mormon, Catholic, Christian, whatever.
(11:05):
That's that's that gives you a picture of so when
people find Jesus, Like, you know, our church is almost
two thousand now in an area where in the four
four mile square radius that.
Speaker 2 (11:17):
Only three thousand people claim any fate.
Speaker 3 (11:19):
So we bumped that number up, which is great, but
that's dramatic.
Speaker 2 (11:24):
It gets attention.
Speaker 1 (11:26):
Yeah, can we just say you're a rock star and
I don't suck up to people, but come on, because
it's in a really a place where religion is not
Like I worked in a big company forever, no one
I knew went to church, Like no, like we're talking zero,
and so I think the idea of revival in an
(11:48):
area like that is unlikely, which I think makes it
even more like exciting. Yeah, and I even look at myself,
like me becoming religious again or being in a relationship
with anything outside of what I could see, I would
say at lots of points in my journey was also unlikely.
(12:13):
So I think, So I'm in this phase where I'm
really trying to immerse myself in Christianity after being saved,
and I'm doing I'm coaching a lot, and I think
it's important to pick up in the story I'm coaching
a lot as a way to kind of help myself
through this time. So I'm a wrestling guy, I'm coaching
(12:36):
a lot, and we're going to pick up into a
really good story about something that I feel as a
miracle that happened as I'm coaching and later on that night.
So there was kind of this revival that was happening.
And I like the way that Die paints it. Maybe
as a person who sits in the pews. They don't
(12:57):
have pews, so when I sits in the chairs, how
I viewed it is like people who are in who
how do I say this die people who have like
high profile jobs, adults that have, you know, big tech
(13:19):
jobs that have you know, all of these things are
like moving in these miraculous ways and wanting to experience
God more and more. And you're seeing that like week
after week, and a church that is completely packed all
the way out the door, parking lots full in an
(13:40):
area that does not church people. And so I'm kind
of part of this this time, and I'm like, wow,
this is really cool, like to see God move in
an area that I grew up in that I know
is not very religious. And I'm going and I'm coaching,
and they had a prayer and worship night and I
coached the day but the night of and so I
(14:02):
know I'm gonna kind of be late. It's going to
be kind of this weird experience where I'm going to
be late to this church thing that I'm that I'm
going with some anticipation for. And so I go and
I'm like yelling the whole time, right because I'm coaching.
I don't know, I probably shouldn't yell so much, but
I do. I go to this church service, this revival service,
(14:27):
and I pull up there is no parking in the
parking lot and I'm like, dude, I'm already late. I'm
already like five minutes late. So I double park and
I said, God, you know, if I'm supposed to be here,
will you just like make that known, like because I
love testing God in these ways, I said, God, just
(14:48):
make it known to me, Like I want to experience
whatever I'm supposed to experience here, but I also kind
of want something, you know, for you to show me that.
So I double park a bunch of people put my
carm park like I don't know, it's all It's all good, right,
(15:08):
Uh go inside, and I said, And as I'm walking
like towards the door, I'm like, oh, I'm late. But
I said, God, if I want, if you want to
show up here, have this song I speak Jesus to
be the song that's playing. As I walk in, I'm like, oh, okay,
maybe that will happen. I walk into the auditorium, I
(15:32):
put my hand on the door, and the first note
starts playing on the song. Yeah, God, right on, let's go.
So so I'm like, gosh, that's kind of a cool sign.
And I said thank you, like I was looking with
anticipation of experiencing something and that like totally happened, which
(15:56):
is really awesome. I walk in and I find my
wife because she's obviously there on time, right, we took
separate cars. I sit with her, and I'm just like,
and it's packed, Like, how many people can you guys
fit in there in your.
Speaker 2 (16:12):
Own seven hundred roughly?
Speaker 1 (16:15):
What it's that high? Six oh my gosh.
Speaker 2 (16:18):
Six eighty probably, but yeah.
Speaker 1 (16:20):
Yeah, so we're talking like a Wednesday night.
Speaker 3 (16:24):
Wednesday nights, we take out like the first two rows
of chairs so people have a place to respond.
Speaker 2 (16:29):
So let's say there's six fifty in there.
Speaker 3 (16:32):
I didn't I thought it was like three hundred, like
it probably wasn't totally full.
Speaker 1 (16:37):
No, it was full. It was full, standing room only,
all that stuff. I mean it was like packed packed.
Speaker 3 (16:45):
Okay, great, well you were there on a night where
we did baptisms, so that's a whole section of chairs
we take out to get that big baptism tank in
there too.
Speaker 2 (16:52):
Anyways, continue you're.
Speaker 1 (16:54):
You're always so modest, you'd be like, yeah, there were
three thousand people there, No everybody, No, that's not anyways,
So there was, but it was packed. It was like
standing room only. Type situation. So I find my way
in there, next next to my wife, and it was
(17:14):
like you could feel like it was very electric, like
you could feel God's presence in the room. And I
was just like there and I was like, you know what, God,
if there is something? And it was hosted by yours
truly diabels. And Die was up there talking and she's like,
(17:34):
you know, if you came here to receive something, pray
to the Lord and maybe you know he'll answer. I
know he'll answer something along those lines. And I said, okay, God.
So I prayed, and I didn't really have anything in
my mind, like I didn't really have anything that I
came with. I just came wanting to experience. And so
(17:55):
I remember praying and kind of you know when you're
praying and you're kind of like you don't have any agenda,
you don't have any like purpose, You're just like I
don't know, like God, I just I'm here. I just
want to be a vessel for you, Like I just
want to be like that was the term that came
(18:16):
to my mind. I'm like, I don't really use this
term very much. Okay, I want to be a vessel
for you. I want to like know you better and
reach people around me who are hurting, Like like I was,
I want to just be a vessel for you, simple prayer,
you know, put it out there. Then Di Biel gets
(18:36):
Diebeels gets on as the host and says that exact
word vessel, like we're all here as a vessels of die.
Do you drop that often? Are you a vessel dropper?
Speaker 2 (18:49):
I know, I didn't even know I said that, but
I believe you.
Speaker 1 (18:54):
Okay. So I throws that out there and I'm like, okay,
well there you go. And so I felt like this
just heightened connection with God in that moment of like,
oh wow, maybe there is something different here today. And
so they go through the whole service. The service is great.
(19:15):
You guys do like an alter call, and I swear
the whole church response. I mean, it's like everyone comes
up and if you haven't seen this, it's a very
cool experience. It is not weird. It is not like
it's just a sovereign move of God where people say, hey,
(19:37):
I just want to know God better.
Speaker 2 (19:39):
It's genuine.
Speaker 1 (19:40):
It's genuine. It is not for show. It is not
for theatrics. It's literally just people saying I want to
experience God, and especially in a godless place or in
people who are in a place where people are going
through stuff. I think it's really powerful. So it's just
this whole flow, lot of people moving and they had baptisms.
(20:06):
And these baptisms are planned, right die Yeah, yep.
Speaker 3 (20:11):
Mostly there are lots of unplanned ones that jump in,
but yes, we start off with planned people.
Speaker 1 (20:18):
Yeah. So people say, hey, I want to renew my
relationship with Jesus. I just found a new relationship with
God and I want to, you know, renew that through baptism.
I think this is really important. Maybe we'll get to
this on the back end of this. Let's just tell
the story. Kai. So I'm watching these baptisms, and mind you,
(20:44):
I am fully dressed, like in churchish clothes, brand new
pair of pants on. I want to look snazzy. I
have a new shirt on. And people are getting baptists
and like, not like one or two people, I would say,
I don't know, fifteen people.
Speaker 2 (21:00):
Yeah, maybe I think that night was a pretty pretty
high number. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (21:04):
Yeah, and people just genuinely wanting to do people renewing
their I think your daughter got to rebaptized. I want
to say or and her husband. Yeah, so like a
lot of people are, you know, kind of experiencing this,
like I want to renew this or I feel I
(21:25):
feel motivated to do this, and so I'm standing there
and I'm watching it. I'm like, yeah, that's a great service.
And I'm watching it, and you know, I'm kind of
thinking in my mind about this this time, and I'm like, Kai,
you've kind of been through all this stuff and you
(21:47):
really want to turn the page on on your life.
You should probably just be baptized like right now. And
I'm just and it wasn't prompted. It wasn't like I
wasn't saying hey, k no one was working on me.
No one was saying anything to me. It was just
me standing there and watching this. And it's like, Ai,
(22:08):
you really need to turn the page on all of
that and walk this new life with Jesus. And I'm like, uh,
I'm not prepared, Like nobody knows this, nobody knows this
internal you know, wrestling and struggle that I'm like thinking
about doing this. And thankfully our good friend Sean King
(22:35):
was there and he's watching and I'm you know, and
I'm standing there and I said, Sean I just feel
that I need to be baptized. He's in full clothes,
I'm in full clothes, and I was just like, you know,
I just think it's something like really important. So this
spontaneous event where I asked my friend Sean King to
(23:00):
baptize me, and I'll tell you this was like a
very like beautiful moment for me. Those who are in
the Mormon Church kind of know the symbolism of baptism,
like that it is death and burial of your old
life and then becoming new. And so at that point
(23:22):
I was like, yeah, like, this is something that I
want for my life. And so here we have a
picture for those of you who are not just listening,
and this is me saying something. What's really beautiful about
this picture is we have the kids pastor that I love, Hayley. Here,
we have Sean King in the background who ended up
(23:45):
finding a shirt I think in the back so that
you could baptize me. And then we have Morgan Butcher.
Like all of these people who are I feel like
are part of my family are there and I was
not anticipating this during that day, but I'm so grateful
that there was just this environment that was there where
(24:08):
I said, gosh, I just want to like turn the
page and move forward, and so spontaneously with a brand
new pair of pants and dressed up. Hey, for those
of you who are looking, I'm a really ugly crier
and so hey, you get to see that in the
picture too.
Speaker 3 (24:25):
On the bright side, there's no chlorine in that tank,
so it didn't ruin your clothes.
Speaker 1 (24:30):
It didn't ruin my clothes, so hey, that's good. But
I just made this decision to become new in Jesus
and to be baptized, and so my friend Sean King
baptized me. And it was really just such a beautiful
(24:51):
experience and such a beautiful moment, and I felt like
I had left a lot of things behind with that moment.
I felt like this was part of my reprogramming of
negative negativity and nihilism was left, you know, at that moment.
(25:11):
And I'm just I don't know, I just I'm so
grateful for like that experience and the people who were
who were involved, you know, in that, and and that
God really showed up right that I said, hey, God,
show me that, like this is something I should do,
and He showed up in that moment. This is one
(25:33):
of the greatest Like this is this was one of
the most pivotal, pivotal and greatest moments of my conversion
was being was being baptized, and it was only God
who could do that. I want to talk about this
a little bit. This question that I had that I
didn't want to derail the story is about like baptism
(25:53):
and what it means, because from a Mormon perspective, baptism
is like you need it for salvation? What does that
look like in like for you, like what does what
does that even mean? Like should somebody be baptized as
it necessary? What does that mean to you?
Speaker 3 (26:14):
Like I mean, I would say, because it's not spelled
out in the Bible, you must be baptized in order
to go to heaven. The Bible just says, I mean,
Jesus says, I'm the way, the truth in life. No
one gets to Heaven but through me. So salvation is
the key to our relationship with Jesus, obviously, But eternity
(26:35):
baptism we say our language, not Christian language, but like
ventures language. We say, it's an outward way of expressing
what God is doing on the inside, and we do
it as an act of obedience because the Bible does
talk about baptism, and because even Jesus was baptized, and
then Jesus told his followers to go and baptize people.
(26:58):
So but I love that it If you think about it,
Jesus probably didn't have sign ups to come and be
baptized by him or by John the Baptist, or by
his disciples. These were spontaneous decisions, but it was a
culture of that.
Speaker 2 (27:14):
The Jewish culture was very much.
Speaker 3 (27:17):
About ritual cleansing, and so you have to be clean
before you can enter God's presence, and baptism just sort
of becomes this one and done, like you know, we've
we've now entered into a relationship with Jesus. Here's the
outward symbol of it. We're clean because Jesus is clean.
Speaker 1 (27:36):
Yeah, and I like the emphasis on it is not
necessary or required. I think that that's it's just something
that you can do as an maybe an outward expression
of an inward desire to follow Jesus. Right, That's something that.
Speaker 2 (27:53):
And we don't limit people there.
Speaker 3 (27:55):
There are some Christian traditions that say if you've ever
been baptized, you can never be baptized again.
Speaker 2 (28:02):
We don't limit people.
Speaker 1 (28:05):
I want.
Speaker 3 (28:05):
We try to create less rules adventure so if somebody
has if God's doing something in someone's life. So you
mentioned my daughter. She got baptized as probably like a
twelve year old before she went to college. She asked
us to baptize her again. She wanted to live for
Jesus in college. The reason that she got baptized in
(28:29):
the day you're mentioning is because her husband wanted to
be baptized, and so she just went in with him.
That was just like a cool thing for them to
stand in solidarity together.
Speaker 2 (28:37):
So you know, sometimes people.
Speaker 3 (28:40):
Choose to be baptized because they've been through a hard
season or they feel like I want to renew my
commitment to the Lord.
Speaker 2 (28:46):
And we just don't put a bunch of no's on things.
We just say, sure, if you want to get baptized again,
there's no harm in that. Yeah, it's my favorite thing
that I do, literally of my job. It's my favorite thing.
Speaker 1 (29:00):
Well I do you. You may or may not remember this,
but you were when me and when I baptized my son.
You were there. You were there with us, and so okay,
well that was pretty early on. So I was just like, wow,
that's that's kind of interesting. In our I wouldn't even
say we had a relationship then, I think I sent
(29:21):
you one email at that point.
Speaker 2 (29:22):
I mean, I know, I knew who you were.
Speaker 3 (29:24):
I knew who you were, and I knew that was
a big step for you, so I was going to
stand with you. And that's that's part of it too,
is like people are walking out this whole relationship with
God thing. All of us are, and we none of
us have it all figured out, so we just kind
of walk beside each other and help each other along.
Speaker 2 (29:43):
That's that's that's a cool thing.
Speaker 1 (29:46):
Yeah, And I think that I just look at where
I was in the beginning of this journey and then
where I was at and there's just so much change
that happen. That's why when I look at the ex
Mormon community has has a lot of negativity within it,
(30:08):
and there's a lot of hurt. There's a lot of
past hurt who have left, a lot of people who
have left where there's a lot of just hurt built
up inside of it. And whenever I see that, I
am I am so optimistic for people who have left
the church, Like I'm I'm I don't look at it
(30:29):
and say like those people are stuck in feeling that way.
I honestly feel like they are like one interaction away
from with God, not with me or this podcast or
another podcast, but one interaction with God away from a
(30:52):
relationship with him.
Speaker 2 (30:53):
Yeah, Like I.
Speaker 1 (30:55):
Honestly believe that. And I don't care if you are
the most hardened atheist ex Mormon, who is you know,
dropping an anti God meme every day? I don't know.
I just think that you are one. Like just God,
(31:16):
let me experience you show me what I need to
do in my life, Like you're really that close from
my from my perspective, because to me, like there's nothing
that is too big. There's there's no like circumstance that
is too big that the Lord cannot intervene, yeah, and
(31:36):
cannot like bring somebody back. Like that's really amen. Okay,
Well I wasn't trying to preach, but I'm just trying
to say, like that is honestly how I feel because
I look at where I was, especially in this story,
and I look at where where God you know, showed
up for me and where He's taken me, and I'm
(31:58):
just like so rightful for that die, I love it,
You're great.
Speaker 2 (32:06):
It's at Kai, big love for you and the fam.
Speaker 1 (32:10):
Yeah, And I just I think that in this next episode,
I'm going to kind of talk about talk about kind
of where it goes from there, what a new life
in Jesus looks like. But I think that this is
really important to talk about kind of these big moments
and talk about how Jesus moves and what and what
(32:31):
he can do with anybody, even in a with a
dark person, right me, Kai, you're not dark. Well, there
was a lot of times where it's pretty dark in
a place that isn't full of you know, a lot
of spirituality. God can move and I honestly believe that
(32:53):
that can happen, that that can in.
Speaker 3 (32:55):
Their pivotal moments because and I think this is important
to point out. We can just sit in the same
place that we've always been. And somebody once said the
definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and
over but expecting a different result. We can just sit
in pain and nurture it and feed it and pet
(33:17):
it and help it grow into a big, healthy monster.
Or we can say there's got to be something else.
I can do something different here so that decision to
begin a relationship with Jesus, the decision to get into
the baptism tank and make that a public thing. Those
are pivotal moments along the way. And then what you're
(33:38):
going to talk about next week is going to be
what came after that. Look at all the life you've
experienced and the freedom and the and finding happiness and
joy again and peace and all those things that you
were missing. So I think that's that's a cool process.
Speaker 1 (33:54):
Yeah, And I want to throw this out there if
there is something that I'll just be honest, I'm starting
to unfollow a lot of ex Mormon content. I'm just
gonna be honest. Sorry, some of these people are my friends,
but when I get on and I look at it,
(34:16):
it just brings me down like a lot. I think
that that can really be healthy in someone's journey, is
to kind of get outside of a lot of this
negative stuff that's just kind of kind of bring you down.
And I think that that's really important if you are
(34:37):
kind of struggling in this space, I think kind of
getting outside of it because even for me now, like
I'm like, man, I'm just not in this place anymore.
I'm not in this negative, like I hate the church
and i'm you know, because it just brings me down,
Like it just puts me in a really bad space.
And I think that can even be like an act
(35:00):
of faith and optimism for something better. Is if you
look at what you're consuming and you say, like I
want to move on from this.
Speaker 3 (35:12):
Which is why, which is why you asked me to
do this with you, to walk on this journey with
you as you share your story. You wanted to be
you wanted us to be a positive voice in what
can be a negative space.
Speaker 1 (35:27):
Yeah, yeah, definitely, And yeah, I just think it's really
really important that if there are kind of these negative
voices or negative themes, maybe you're having a good day
and then you listen to this stuff and it just
kind of brings you down. I would encourage you to
unfollow stuff to like that is an act of faith,
(35:50):
that's an act of like I just want to experience
something different, and I would just I would just encourage
my fellow ex Mormons to do that. All right, Well,
if you have any question like like share, subscribe, I
only have to say that, right, but if you have
the token, the token whatever, But if you have any
(36:14):
questions or you want to send something to us, you
can send us a message at Jesus from Mormons at
gmail dot com. I do love getting those. I think
that they're really fun for me to respond. I love
I just there are so many interesting people that you
run into.
Speaker 2 (36:34):
Yeah, makes this job. Tell us your story.
Speaker 1 (36:37):
People, Yeah, tell us your story. And yeah, I guess.
Do you have any parting comments or we are we
kind of on the on the end.
Speaker 2 (36:45):
No, I'm excited for next week.
Speaker 3 (36:47):
I'm excited to talk about what happens when you make
a a positive step or a healthy step or a
well I'm gonna trust you and see if you're real God,
and what what happens in my life.
Speaker 2 (36:58):
I'm here for let's do it.
Speaker 1 (37:01):
Let's do it all right, Well, love you guys, and
until next time,
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!