April 30, 2025 • 61 mins
Katie, "the Pink Apostle," shares her journey of leaving the Mormon Church after confronting doubts sparked by her brother's departure and reading the CES Letter. Guided by her Christian relatives, she found a relationship with Jesus based on grace, not works. In this conversation, she highlights how many Mormons love Jesus but are often led toward agnosticism due to LDS theology. Katie emphasizes gentle evangelism, the importance of deepening faith, and her calling to launch The Pink Apostle podcast. Her message: seek true freedom in Christ and avoid lukewarm faith.
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Contact us:
Email: jesusformormons@gmail.com
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/share/g/kxt1hS692rDMcJi8/
Website: https://jesusformormons.com/
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Welcome to another edition of Jesus for Mormons. Today, I
am joined by Katie the Pink Apostle. Hey Katie, how
you doing.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
Hey?
Speaker 3 (00:15):
I'm doing great. I'm excited to be here. How are you?
Speaker 2 (00:18):
Oh, I'm doing awesome.
Speaker 1 (00:20):
Okay, I have a big question for you.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
Will there be.
Speaker 1 (00:24):
A mass exodus from the Mormon Church and those people
will then become Christian?
Speaker 3 (00:31):
Okay?
Speaker 4 (00:32):
So I do believe there will be a mass exodus
because we've already been seeing it happen. Now, I think
that whether they become Christian is the main question. Is
because I feel like most Mormons truly truly have a
deep love for Jesus. They really really do. The issue
(00:54):
is that the theology is incorrect. If you look at
the LS doctrine versus the Bible and so, people who
truly love Jesus and then find out that there's pieces
of that doctrine that's not right, they're more likely to
just leave everything altogether, and I think go the agnostic
atheist route. So that's where what I'm trying to do
(01:15):
is show that Biblical theology LDS theology. They're not the same.
Jesus Israel, Jesus is still alive. He's still around, and
I hope that more ex Mormons will become Christian.
Speaker 1 (01:27):
Yeah, I think I think there's also another move that
could happen. The Mormon Church could change its underlying theology. Yea,
they could, which would be awesome. If they got rid
of a lot of their main core theology, it would
be awesome. Like it would be great and they just said, hey,
(01:48):
we're following Biblical Christianity. Sorry Joseph, sorry Brigham, you're getting
thrown under the bus, and we are just now going
to walk in a new way. I would love for
that to happen. I would I I'm going to pre
I'm going to call this the Mormon Revival where seventeen
(02:10):
million Mormons put away all the old stuff, put away
the temple, put away all of those feelings, and just
choose to follow Jesus. I think that would be amazing,
and the leadership could push that forward. What are your
(02:30):
thoughts on that, Katie?
Speaker 4 (02:31):
Okay, if the leadership is going to push that forward,
they're literally saying we're not in the leadership position anymore.
Speaker 3 (02:37):
There is no profit of the church. If they're going
to go biblical.
Speaker 4 (02:41):
I mean it, like completely, They're going to have to
let go of literally everything. And it's like, I mean,
the Mormon churchies won't exist anymore because it's all based
on the Book of Mormon and doctrine and covenants and
Joseph Smith and like all those things.
Speaker 3 (02:57):
You can't believe in those things. If you're going to
claim the Bible as your.
Speaker 2 (03:01):
Yeah, and I would say that.
Speaker 1 (03:02):
I would say it's possible though, because it is such
an authoritarian church. Whatever the prophet says goes. So if
the prophet says, hey, come on, follow the profit, follow
you guys don't know, I could sing.
Speaker 4 (03:18):
Yeah, oh no, theck has arrived, dude.
Speaker 2 (03:26):
I could sing all twelve verses of that song.
Speaker 3 (03:28):
Oh tell me it wasn't your voice.
Speaker 1 (03:31):
Yeah, the voice you're telling me I have a chance
at singing career. No, but I think that people will
follow a top down I mean I watched this firsthand.
I won't say what relationship these people had to me,
but there were some people who were very close to me,
anti vaccine, anti you know, getting the JAB, were very
(03:54):
vocal about it. The church came out and said, hey,
you guys need to be vaccinated. They went out the
next week and got vaccinated. I mean, these are not
people who are These are intelligent people. These are people
who can think for themselves, are very successful in their life.
They were like, Okay, I'm gonna go get the jab.
(04:15):
The prophet says it. Follow the prophet. And so I
think that if the church did change a lot of
its theology got rid of the temple, which I think
they could do. I think they could get rid of
a lot of these things. And if it came from
the prophet, I actually think that they would get a
free pass a lot more than in a lot of
(04:37):
like in the Christian Church, they could not adopt Mormon
theology and have people stay in the pews. It would
not happen. People would jump ship and they would change churches.
In the Mormon Church, they would stay in there and
follow you know that person because they've they've followed the
(04:57):
profit with a lot more troubling things. Polygamy, blacks. I mean,
you can go down the line blacks in the Prestood,
you can go down the line on things that they
followed them with. I don't know, maybe I'm wrong.
Speaker 4 (05:13):
I think if the prophet did come out and say
something like that and did some major theological shifts, we
would see a massive exodus of people who are going
to stick with the current doctrine, just the way that
the fundamental LDS stuck with polygamy and they branched off.
Speaker 3 (05:29):
So I think we.
Speaker 4 (05:30):
Would see something like that those who lean a little
more biblical Christian in the Mormon Church, because I don't
think everybody believes in the original doctrine. And that's the issue,
is that if we're going to believe in the Mormon Church,
we have to look at the doctrine that's the foundation
of it all. But again, like you can't have the
profit of the church and it still be biblical because
(05:52):
we don't have a prophet in these days. Jesus was
the final like Jesus fulfilled everything that the prophets in
the Old Testament were coming to bring. And I don't
think that the Mormon Church could be without temples because
the temples are required for us to achieve exaltation. So like,
where would exaltation come from that there weren't temples to
do the temple work?
Speaker 1 (06:12):
I think you would. This is something I've actually really
thought about. The temple could just be a nod to
the past, It could just be this kind of relic
of history, but not it doesn't have any special spiritual significance, right,
(06:33):
And you could just be like, oh, that was an
interesting look into Mormonism of the past, but not because
I think that people who go into the temple not
knowing anything about it, a lot of them are freaked out.
Speaker 3 (06:48):
And I actually can brace me out. The first time
I went in.
Speaker 1 (06:52):
Okay, it didn't freak me out because I had a
brother that was very freaked out by it. Sorry, brother,
I'm outing you on this podcast, who was very freaked
out by it. And my parents made sure like, hey,
when you go in there, just like, don't get freaked
out by anything, pretty much is what they told me. So,
and so I was like anticipating it being a lot
(07:15):
worse and a lot like crazier.
Speaker 2 (07:19):
Than it was.
Speaker 1 (07:20):
And so then when I went in and I was like, oh, like,
I'm I'm sorry people, Mormon people, it was.
Speaker 2 (07:28):
It put me to sleep.
Speaker 1 (07:29):
It was very like it was not exciting, It wasn't exhilarating.
It was just like sitting down and watching a movie
that wasn't that exciting. Sorry, I'm sorry if that hurts
people's feelings.
Speaker 4 (07:42):
But if you watch did you go to the one
with the video or did you go to the one with.
Speaker 3 (07:45):
The live action?
Speaker 1 (07:46):
Okay, so I went to the video first, and then
I went live action in the Salt Lake Temple, which
I'm glad I did. I mean, I don't know, that's
kind of a rustle, but I'm glad I experienced the
live before they've just like now, they've just gutted Salt
Lake City Temple and it's just a bunch of movie
theaters pretty much inside there. Whereas for me, I got
(08:09):
to walk through it. People got to act their parts,
which I think would be cool as a nod to
the past, like if you're Biblical Christian and you've changed
all your theology and you just want to have a
nod to the past. What I don't think that the
Mormon Church leaders understand is that what they're holding on to,
(08:33):
most people in the church are probably not holding on
to and it's not that important to them, like these
theological things like the temple. I'm sorry, man, I'm going
with such hot takes today. I'm sorry, but no one
goes to the temple. Like even before my faith crisis,
(08:53):
when there were a lot more members of the church,
no one went to the Temple.
Speaker 4 (08:59):
So because that the temple recommend questions, people weren't actually
passing all of those.
Speaker 1 (09:05):
I don't know who was a full temple recommend holder
when I was in like the elderscorem presidencies and stuff,
I didn't really have access to that. I knew who
was in doubt at one point, but I didn't know
who actually held a temple recommend at the time. But
I think that I think that it is not as
(09:28):
big of a priority for people to go to the Temple.
I just don't think it's something like I don't I
think if they're choosing Friday night, am I gonna go
to a rock concert or a Mariner's game, sorry, a
baseball game or a you know, Huskies game, sorry I'm
(09:49):
from Seattle area college football game or whatever, like if
I if I have to choose between those two, like,
I'm gonna do something that's a little more entertaining because
the temp is just not really that exhilarating or captivating.
And I would have never said that as a member.
I would have said the Temple is the most beautiful
(10:09):
place on earth. But I think, deep down inside, I
don't know how much people feel that way. Interesting that's
my feeling.
Speaker 2 (10:19):
Maybe I haven't.
Speaker 4 (10:20):
I haven't been in that world for a good eleven
years now. But when when that was for me, that
was like top priority, Like we've got to get over there,
We've got to find ways to get our friends over there,
we've got to find ways to get the youth over there.
Speaker 3 (10:33):
And I my last.
Speaker 4 (10:34):
Calling was in young women's and so we were just like,
how do we get the young women's too, the temple
and all of those things. So for me growing up,
it was always like that this is top priority because
this is eternal work that needs to be done.
Speaker 2 (10:49):
Yeah, but if you die, somebody else will do it.
You know this is true? Okay, So I listen.
Speaker 1 (10:57):
Yeah, Nope, not going to go with untasteful jokes today.
Speaker 2 (11:02):
But I was listening to a great podcast that you
were on where you talked.
Speaker 1 (11:08):
About your brother and how your brother was really instrumental
in you leaving the church. Can you talk a little
bit about that, about what kind of happened and what
was going on in your life. I assume you're fully
active member, but just talk talk through that.
Speaker 3 (11:28):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (11:29):
So, at the time, I was living in South Texas, McCallan, Texas,
and I wasn't necessarily fully accepting that I was doubting
my faith, but I had a lot of questions, and
every time I had a question, it was like that
Elder Updorf quote, doubt your doubts before you doubt your faith.
So I was like, Okay, well, I'm just going to
(11:49):
keep reading the end Sign. I'm going to keep reading
my patriarchal Blessing, keep reading the Book of Mormon Doctrine
and Covenants, but also simultaneously watching my uncle's sermons as
a Denominational Christian pastor and really getting so much more
from that. But I was just like, there's got to
be somewhere where this intersect, like this has to make
(12:10):
sense together. And I mean I had questions like so
if if I die and my I mean, I was
sealed in the temple to my spouse at that time,
But I was like, what if we weren't sealed, then
It's like if we both died but everything else was right,
then we would both be in heaven, we just like
would be separated just from each other or like I
(12:34):
was just trying to make sense of how do how
do we all end up in heaven? But we all
have varying degrees of what gets like varying degrees of
good work. So what if I end up in the
highest level slasial kingdom, but one of my family members
ends up in the trestrial kingdom, then it's like I
can go down, but he can't come up. But then, like,
am I allowed to even do that? Because then he
(12:54):
can't see me if he's like held to these specific standards,
And so it was like stuff like that that I
was just like, I don't know how to make sense
of this, and I just kind of kept coming back
to the basics of let me just have a relationship
with Jesus.
Speaker 3 (13:07):
Love is the greatest of all.
Speaker 4 (13:10):
And my brother was getting to a point where he
was about to go serve a mission.
Speaker 3 (13:14):
I don't remember where he was called to, but it was.
Speaker 4 (13:17):
A couple of weeks before he was going to lead,
and he announced to the family that he no longer
believed in the church, so he couldn't go do a
mission where he was teaching people something he didn't believe
in hope that we.
Speaker 3 (13:29):
Could support his choice.
Speaker 4 (13:31):
And when he settle that, I was kind of like, interesting,
I wonder what it is that is making him feel
that way. Like this came out of left field. I
had no idea he had any kind of doubts, And
after kind of thinking on it for a bit, I
was like, you know what, Oh, And one of the
reasons I stuffed my doubts down the hold doubt your
(13:53):
doubts before you doubt your faith is I was terrified
of giving the devil a foothold, because that's what you're
taught is if you look into your doubts, the devil's
going to swoop in and take you away from the
Restored Church, and then you're going to end up a
boss state in out of darkness. And so I was like,
I don't want that to happen. And the prophet says
that we just have to keep leaning on what's on
what they say, and so I'm going to keep doing that,
(14:15):
but I'm not really getting peace and I'm not really
getting answers.
Speaker 3 (14:19):
That last it was kind of.
Speaker 4 (14:20):
Like this roller coaster of Oh, everything's great, I'm as
hard core of a Mormon as I can be, and
then the other side.
Speaker 3 (14:28):
Of it, I'd be like, well, now I have these questions
that I can't figure out an.
Speaker 4 (14:31):
Answer, and just like up and down of not knowing
exactly what I wanted, what I believed, or how to
answer questions that I was having.
Speaker 3 (14:40):
And so when my brother announced that.
Speaker 4 (14:43):
I was like, this is my loophole, Like I can
go ask him if he like, I can ask him
what his doubts are, and maybe we have the same questions.
And then it's not me giving the devil a foothold
when we go search the answers because I'm going to
save him.
Speaker 3 (14:55):
I'm going to bring him back into the restored church.
Speaker 4 (14:58):
And then like I'm like the backseat, this is my
secret the whole time that it's really my doubts I'm wanting.
Speaker 3 (15:05):
To like look into.
Speaker 4 (15:06):
And when I reached out to him, I said, hey,
I know that you don't believe it anymore, but I'm
just really curious why, because I've had some doubts too,
Like we can relate with each other and so you know,
let's just let's look into it together.
Speaker 3 (15:20):
And he was like, I'm going to send you something.
Speaker 4 (15:22):
And you read it and then we can talk, and
I was like okay, And so he sent me the
Cees Letter and I'd never heard of it before.
Speaker 3 (15:31):
And when I was trying to decide if I was
going to read this or not.
Speaker 4 (15:35):
I was just praying and I felt like God was like,
I am so much bigger than the devil, So why
are you so afraid the Devil's going to take you
away from truth? When I'm God and you're seeking me,
So why do you think I can't protect you from that?
And so I was like, that actually makes more sense
than anything else I've been trying to figure out.
Speaker 3 (15:54):
And so I was like, you know what, I'm going
to read it, and I mean that was it.
Speaker 4 (15:59):
I read through that letter in about it took me
about hour and a half to two hours, and I
just remember sitting on the couch and just being like,
all of a sudden, it's just like all the pieces
were clicking together, and I had the burning in the bosom,
and I was like, that's weird because we're only supposed
to get that for the Holy Ghost telling us that
the Book of Mormon is true? So why am I
getting a burnie in my bosom over the CES letter?
(16:21):
And from there, I was just like, I can't reconcile
any of these and if the Church can't reconcile any
any of these things either, then I have to believe
that it's true, and I mean I did go on
from there to do some more of my own research,
but in general, I was just like that was it
for me.
Speaker 3 (16:39):
I was like, I can't believe in this anymore.
Speaker 2 (16:42):
Yeah. Yeah, And for me it was that black and
white as well.
Speaker 1 (16:45):
That's why I kind of loved that portion of your
story that I heard about, because for me, I was like,
I can't be a part of this at all. And
I was so hardcore into it, you know, the I
mean I was, I'm reading the CS letter, I probably
just paid tithing that week, I'm wearing garments, I'm doing
(17:06):
the whole thing, and then I'm just out and I'm
cut loose and don't know if I believe in God anymore.
Speaker 2 (17:15):
Jesus, you know, just like.
Speaker 1 (17:17):
I didn't have you, You seem to be influenced by
some family members that you had. What was what was
that like for them? Were they pretty as we would
call anti Mormon? I put that quote that just means
like biblical Christianity. They were they super anti Mormon with
(17:39):
your family? Or were they just like nothing, like, oh
that's nice. What approach did they take?
Speaker 4 (17:50):
So my aunt, my uncle they both went to b
YU that's where they actually met. They were the two
only like non Mormons that went to b YU. My
uncle was there on a football scollship. My aunt was
there on a track scholarship, and so my uncle played
for BYU and he still he was just on the
BYU Cougar's cruise like a week ago, like speaking to them.
So he's always going back and preaching sermons. And even
(18:14):
when in the church my dad was a bishop, whenever
my aunt uncle came into town, my dad invited my
uncle to speak, and he would come in and speak
Jesus to all the Mormons, and so, yes, the theology
is biblical, but they were always like, let's get in
there and tell them about Jesus, Like that's what Jesus
(18:36):
is about. And I remember, I just I knew there's
something different about them. Even at eight years old, I
had a book of Mormon. I remember putting stickers in
it and I wrote my testimony inside the cupboard. I
gave it to my uncle, thinking this is going to
save them. They loved Jesus so much and now they
can be part of the restored true Church that never happened.
(18:58):
And I was always like that was one of my
super confusing questions. I was like, if this is true,
with how much they love Jesus, do they just want
to drink alcohol and coffee? Is is that why they
won't become Mormon? Like I was like, that's the only
thing I can figure out, because I know.
Speaker 3 (19:12):
That they love Jesus and Jesus changed their lives.
Speaker 4 (19:16):
But when I reached I had been watching their church
planners out in North Carolina, and so I had always
been watching my uncle's sermons, and so when I was like,
I cannot believe in the LDS Church anymore, but I
know I believe in Jesus and I want the Jesus
that my aunt and uncle preach about.
Speaker 3 (19:34):
And so I reached out by text.
Speaker 4 (19:36):
I was like, Hey, I know I live in San
Antonio and y'all are in North Carolina, but if there's
any way I can be involved with your church from here,
just let me know. And they called me like within
five minutes and were like what's going on?
Speaker 3 (19:50):
Like why would why are you saying this?
Speaker 4 (19:53):
And I was just like I told them that whole
story of reading the CES letter and where I was
at at that point, and my uncle was like, all right,
I've got stuff for you.
Speaker 3 (20:02):
So he sent me my first Bible. He sent me
all these.
Speaker 4 (20:05):
Books to read and gave me a ton of resources.
And it was just like any questions I had. I
was texting and calling them and they were answering and
guiding me every step of the way. They got me
connected with the biblical church here that they knew was trustworthy.
And so yeah, they were just like they said, We've
been praying that you would be crushed under the weight
(20:26):
of religion to the point where you had no no
nowhere to turn but to Jesus. And so I know
that they've been praying for me, and is that they've
been praying for my family. And so while they always
loved and accepted us, but they always prayed Jesus and
preached Jesus and were that living example of what it's
(20:47):
like to live with Jesus.
Speaker 1 (20:49):
Okay, So I'm very curious on their approach because I've
thought of changing my approach. I'm snarky, I throw jabs
at the church. I do all of those things right,
but maybe maybe that's not the right approach, and I'm
totally open to being wrong. I love that when I
was eventually saved, there were people that I really trusted,
(21:14):
who I felt like I wanted to turn to and
be like, hey, I don't believe in God. I'm just
gonna put that out there for you guys, but what
do you think about this part of the Bible? And
so I was able to because these were people that
I had relationships with that were outside of you know,
(21:35):
outside of even Christianity, definitely outside of Mormonism. I wasn't
really looking for that perspective, but I had trusted Christian
friends and associates that I was able to talk to.
Do you think that made a huge difference for you
having that family family member preach it, preach the gospel
(21:56):
to you. And then kind of a second part of
that is were they ever like super anti Mormon? I
guess is maybe a really good question, Like were they like, well,
did you know that Joseph Smith was married to a
fourteen year old?
Speaker 2 (22:11):
Did you know this?
Speaker 1 (22:13):
Like was that a part of the dialogue that you
had with your with your aunt and uncle.
Speaker 4 (22:20):
No, we never got into the church history side of things.
It was always We're just going to focus on how
good Jesus is and what his true nature is, because
ultimately that's all that matters. Yes, there's all these evident
heary issues with the church, but the focus is always Jesus.
We always preach Jesus, we always preach grace. The Elis
(22:43):
Church obviously teaches a workspaceed and they say it's not salvation,
but it's workspaceed exaltation and salvation is just a stepping
stone to get there. And so with uh, with the
with the Bible, it's not, oh, Jesus saved you so
that you could then become the best version of yourself. No,
(23:05):
like Jesus saved us to restore relationship with him. Like
it wasn't so that we could become more than we are.
And we're not even the same species as Jesus. And
that's like, that was the most fine blowing thing to me.
I'm like, he's not my brother, he is my Lord
and my savior. Like we're not even on the same level,
and let alone Satan being on the same level as
(23:26):
all of that. But just keeping it very I do
wonder sometimes if they had been more bold and like
this is true and this is false. But at the
same time, there's I don't remember the reference, but there's
that verse that says that it's foolishness to those who
don't have the Holy Spirit. And so it's like I
heard the Gospel so many times, but I didn't have
(23:48):
ears to hear. I didn't have eyes to see until
it was the timing that God anointed for me to
have the truth, and then it all made sense, it
all came together.
Speaker 1 (24:00):
Yeah. Yeah, it makes me really think about changing my approach.
I mean, if I'm being honest in general, I mean
I come from I came from a very jaded you know,
after leaving the church, very jaded, and now I'm super happy.
But I like to poke fun at the church, have
(24:22):
fun with that, and so it's just kind of like,
oh should I Is that the wrong way to do it?
And is there a problem with that? I've been actually
really wrestling with that over the last you know, a
few months, is.
Speaker 2 (24:35):
Like, is this the best way to evangelize? I don't know.
Speaker 1 (24:39):
I mean, that's that's something that I haven't yet felt
conviction to move either way. But I look at like
people who leave in the healthiest ways, people who leave
the Mormon Church in the healthiest ways, are like those
who are like, yeah, the church just wasn't doing it
for me, Like I know it's named the Church of
(25:00):
Jesus Christ, but there ain't a lot of Jesus in it,
and I need something more, Like I feel constantly beat
down by not fulfilling my calling very well, by not
like even having the assurance of salvation all of those things.
Like I just feel beat down by that, and I
just want like what's promised in the Bible, Like I
(25:23):
want rest. I want like those are the healthiest people.
I don't know if you see that as well, like
in what you do or the interactions you've had with
with people who have left the Mormon Church and are
now Christian.
Speaker 4 (25:37):
I actually haven't had a whole lot of interaction with
people who have left and become Christian. Like I said,
everybody that I've seen come out other than one person
is either agnostic or atheist.
Speaker 3 (25:50):
And for me, it was really.
Speaker 4 (25:53):
Important for my tone on the podcast to be as gentle, firm,
and bold as possible because I know that you were
saying snarky. If you're snarky, then they might take it as, oh,
you're calling me stupid. You think I'm an idiot because
I believe this, so they don't have any respect there
to be like, let me listen to your opinion, they're
just going to be like whatever. And so for me,
(26:15):
it was my it's really important for me to have
that tone. And then a lot of I mean, almost
every ex Mormon podcast I've listened to has more of
that snarky and not not X Mormon Christian, but like
I mean, I think I'm the first or maybe the
second like female post ex Mormon Christian, but there's a
(26:36):
lot of agnostic, atheist x Mormons that are more deconstructing
faith and it's all very snarky. And I just don't
think that anybody who's like really trying to really look
at truth and love and looking for Jesus, I don't
think that they're going to stick around. If it's that
tone of voice, They're gonna want something that's being more gentle.
Speaker 2 (26:59):
Katie convicting me right now, that's.
Speaker 1 (27:07):
Hey for those of you who don't really know what
that like, conviction, like convicting somebody means like you feel like, oh, well,
maybe I should reevaluate this, maybe I should change and
move in a different direction. And I think because the
thing is, when I started podcasting, I was so angry,
right like, I wasn't fully healed, and I even went
(27:27):
to God and I was like, hey, I don't feel like,
I know my theology is crazy and I know I'm
not like feeling like super healed in doing this, and
he was just like just started. I'm like, okay, cool,
I'll hit record. And so it's changed. And I think
that as I've seen like people who have shifted, and
(27:50):
the people I know who have done it the healthiest way,
they've just been like, gosh, the Bible doesn't line up
with Mormon theology, and I kind of am trusting the
Bible a little more than Mormonthiale and they and then
they switch like that, like then they're just gone, it
doesn't matter. They just say I'm gonna choose to follow
Jesus and not the prophets. Right, I'm gonna put that
(28:15):
in air quotes. And that's not me being snarky. Followed
the prophets, Okay, So I'll be a little nicer on
this one and maybe not throw as many jabs back
of the church. I thought it was interesting that you
talked about your brother leaving. When he left the church,
my brother also left after going on a mission for
a few weeks. Yeah, so I remember that tension that
(28:39):
existed in the home that I grew up in. Did
that cause any prob I mean your dad, you said
he served as a bishop. As I read through and
listened to another podcast you were on, you said he
worked for the church, worked in the church education system.
Speaker 2 (28:56):
All of those things. What did that do? Like in
your family, was there tension? Was there? Was it kind
of okay? Well, how did that get settled?
Speaker 4 (29:06):
So I was already I'm the oldest of five and
my brother was number three, and so I was already
out of the house, married with a kid across the country.
So I couldn't speak to the tension that was there.
But I don't think that there was anytention. Even when
I left the church, I wrote my parents a letter
and I was just like, look, you raised me to
think critically, You raised me to make smart decisions and
(29:28):
wise decisions, and this is why I'm making this decision.
And they are always my parents first and foremost just
wanted all of us to know that they loved us
no matter what, and that they supported us no matter what.
And so there was never any of that tension that
you hear about from other LDS families.
Speaker 3 (29:45):
I don't think any me or my brother felt any
of that when we left.
Speaker 1 (29:50):
Wow, that's really cool. That's a good thing. Do you
think that made it? I mean, do you think that
made it feel a little bit better? Like because I
think about all the tension that existed when I told
my parents I was leaving the church and yeah, I
(30:16):
don't know, I'm not I'm not going to probably delve
into that subject today, but.
Speaker 2 (30:25):
Yeah, I don't know. It makes me.
Speaker 1 (30:27):
It makes me really sad just thinking about it right now.
Just you know, in April of twenty twenty five, what
do you think that made it easier to like hop
into that, to hop into your h to become Christian
and do that with your parents and kind of how
(30:49):
they approach it or what.
Speaker 2 (30:52):
I don't know.
Speaker 4 (30:53):
I didn't really know that was how they were going
to react, so I was I was terrified to tell them.
I don't know that it made it easier on me
at that point, But afterwards, the fact that I didn't
lose the relationship with my family that was like that,
I mean, that's the thing that I was scared of
the most was losing relationship with them, and so the
fact that I didn't it made it I don't know
(31:17):
if easier is the right word. I guess like comfortable
like it. But but we also we didn't have a
lot of deep conversations, Like I still haven't like had
full deep conversations with my brothers and sisters about.
Speaker 3 (31:31):
Like what I believe in now.
Speaker 4 (31:32):
Like this my podcast is me coming out and finally
talking about what my beliefs are now.
Speaker 3 (31:39):
And like specifically. And so.
Speaker 4 (31:43):
I think through my family, we don't do conflict. Well,
so we just love each other when there's a conflict.
Speaker 2 (31:51):
Oh well that means you do conflict. Well, I don't know,
but I mean.
Speaker 4 (31:55):
It's like there's no like we don't discuss anything. It's
just kind of all sweet but under the rug love
and support you no matter what. So there's like a
very positive side of that, but there's also like I'm like,
I wish that we could have deeper conversations and like
talk through some of these things.
Speaker 1 (32:10):
Mm. Yeah, that's that's interesting that you that you. I
just think it's great though that they love you and
support you and and do that. I mean I think
that I think that says says a lot about.
Speaker 2 (32:26):
Your about your family.
Speaker 1 (32:28):
Yeah, I'm I was thinking it was kind of kind
of going a different direction with like maybe maybe you
or your brother is kind of radioactive at this point.
But that's great that they that they do that. So
as you talk with people like about your your ministry. Okay,
so let's talk about it a little bit. The Pink Apostle. Okay,
(32:51):
Now this is I would love this if tomorrow, after
the day after this releases, I would love it if
everyone who subscribes to my channel subscribes to the Pink Apostle.
Speaker 3 (33:03):
I think that would be amazing.
Speaker 1 (33:05):
That would be rad because you are, like I love
your content. I'm just going to be straight up and honest.
I think you do a really really good job at
presenting the information. You have a great brand, you have,
you push out great, great stuff. And I would love
(33:25):
if three years from now, I'm like I did an
early interview with her, she has a million subscribers seventy eighteen.
I ain't got nothing to do with me twenteen million subscribers,
right because that's that's how many members of the church
star a right now, and they all came to know Jesus. Like,
(33:49):
I would absolutely love that, Like I think that I
think that this is what is needed, Like within the
body of Christ. There need to be people who come
out and say, hey, this was my background, this is
where I was at. Like you seem to come from
from a good background with with your family, your dad
(34:10):
was a bishop, all these things that gives that that
is a data.
Speaker 2 (34:14):
Point for people. You know.
Speaker 1 (34:16):
I just hope that there are literally hundreds of ex
Mormon Christian podcasts that people can listen to and resonate,
you know, with with with whatever they're trying to to
talk about, as long as it pushes them towards you know,
biblical Christianity. And so that's what I'm saying. If you
(34:37):
listen to my podcast, go and subscribe to the Pink Apostle,
I think that would be that'd be really good. What
is your what is your end goal? I think it's
I think it's always interesting to talk about that. When
I started podcasting, my end goal was to have twenty subscribers,
(34:57):
turn the camera off and never pod cast again. Just
tell my story. What is your end goal? Like, what's
your what do you want to do? What do you
want to accomplish?
Speaker 4 (35:10):
I mean, I'm just going till God says stop. Like
this wasn't something that I thought I was ever going
to do. It was probably around a year ago that
I just I started seeing the that there's a verse
in Revelation talking about lukewarm Christians, and there's a verse
in Matthew where Jesus says like you can call tell
(35:33):
me that you cast out demons in my name, and I.
Speaker 3 (35:36):
Will say I never knew you.
Speaker 4 (35:37):
And I just I just felt like God was like
bombarding me with these verses to like catch my attention.
And I was like, you know what, Like what am
I doing for the kingdom? What am I actually doing?
Am I actually living the way that Jesus like expects
me to act as his follower?
Speaker 3 (35:54):
And I was just like I am a lukewarm Christian,
like I can't say that I'm not.
Speaker 4 (35:59):
And I'm watching these different influencers growing in their faith,
and I was like, you know, I want that kind
of faith, Like I don't want to be on social
media doing it, but I want that in my own
personal life.
Speaker 3 (36:11):
And so I just started praying.
Speaker 4 (36:13):
I was like, God, I don't know how this looks,
I don't know how this works, but I know I'm
reading these verses and I know that I'm seeing these
examples and I want to live that kind of life.
I want a fire in me for you, because it
was like that in the very beginning, but you know,
through ten years, it all just kind of dwindled and settled.
And as I started praying that, God really put a
(36:34):
weight on my heart for some of my family members
that are still actively LDS and I was just like,
I was like crying like every night over it. And
I'm just like, God, like, you freed me from that religion.
You freed me from being weighed down by all of
the rules and all of the things.
Speaker 3 (36:54):
And then the sin that's attached to there's such an
idol of self.
Speaker 4 (36:57):
There's the sin of pride is so prevalent as a
member of the LDS church that's trying to follow the doctrine.
And I was like, you freed me from all of that.
I want them to be free from it too. And
one day God was like, I want you to start
a TikTok and start sharing your faith in your journey.
And I was like, I can do that because my
family's not on there, and again, like I'm scared to
(37:18):
lose relationship with them if I start like getting too bold,
And I was like, okay, no, none of my family's
on TikTok, so I can do TikTok and short videos.
Speaker 3 (37:28):
And but for me, I'm a nerd. I love research.
I love to study. I would spend my entire life
in school if I could.
Speaker 4 (37:35):
And so I start doing my research and trying to
like figure plan out these tiktoks I'm going to do.
And then I was like, God, this is too much
to put in a TikTok, and he goes, that's right,
because I want you to do a podcast, and I
was like, oh, okay, and so this is over like months,
and then I mean he led me to the place
that I'm recording.
Speaker 3 (37:55):
He put everything in life. When I met the guy
that is.
Speaker 4 (37:59):
My production manager who I'm recording at his coffee shop,
he was asking me all these questions. He was like,
when do you want to start recording? What kind of
content are you going to be putting out? Like all
this stuff? And I was like, honestly, I don't know.
I'm just trying to be obedient to what God's telling
me to do right now. And for some reason, I'm
supposed to like talking to you about this before I
(38:19):
even know what's going on. And that was like December time.
I was like maybe one to six months. He's like,
that's a big gap. I was like, I know, but
I can't tell you one month and I can't tell.
Speaker 3 (38:29):
You six months. I don't know when I'm going to start.
Speaker 4 (38:31):
And I was starting within I started recording a month later,
and God just like gave me about four seasons worth
of episodes.
Speaker 3 (38:39):
Like one day. I was just like it was just
coming to me, and I just wrote it.
Speaker 4 (38:41):
All down and then God was like, hey, April first,
that'll be a release date and I was like okay.
And even the name I had I'm a hairstylist, and
so the pink hair started just for fun and it
was like super super pastel and I was like, I
think I'm ready to go back to Bloe.
Speaker 3 (39:00):
This is a lot of maintenance.
Speaker 4 (39:01):
And there was one day God was like, no, you're
gonna go pinker and I was like, that's a weird revelation.
Speaker 3 (39:07):
I don't think that was really from God.
Speaker 4 (39:10):
And then about ten minutes later, because I was like
trying to think, what would I name my podcast when
I start a podcast, and it was then all of
a sudden, he was like the pink Apostle and I
was like, don't like that. That sounds really controversial. I
don't want confrontation with anybody. And I was like, but
he just kept putting this name in my mind, and
(39:30):
I was like, hey, well, let me look up what
apostle means, like the original Greek word. And I'm like
a nerd for the original Greek when I'm reading my Bible,
like I have my logos app so I can look
up all the original words and get all the original meanings.
And the apostle comes from apostolos, which it just means
a messenger. And when I read that, God said I'm
(39:51):
sending you as a messenger to speak to the people
that I've chosen, and I was like, okay, Like I'll
just keep praying and fast. It took me about three
months to finally get on the same level as God
and except that.
Speaker 3 (40:05):
That was the name that I was going to use.
Speaker 4 (40:08):
And but for even from there, it's just like everything
that I've done has been an idea that He's planted
in me.
Speaker 3 (40:15):
Because I would not have done a video podcast.
Speaker 4 (40:18):
I was like, I would be audio at my house
and He's like, nope, you're doing video at a coffee shop.
And I was like, I don't want to spend that money,
and he's like, well, I'm going to give you that money,
and that's what you're going to spend it on.
Speaker 3 (40:27):
And I mean that's just what it's been.
Speaker 4 (40:30):
It's literally been every day he gives me an idea
for something and I'm like, let me see why I
can do with that idea, and it turns into something amazing.
And so I'm I have like four seasons planned out.
I have these ideas to do Bible studies. I don't
(40:50):
know if that's going to be in person or on
It'll probably end up being online to reach more people.
I've had book ideas get popped in my head that
I haven't even like really looked at. So I'm just
I'm literally just gonna go until God says that's enough.
Speaker 2 (41:05):
Nice.
Speaker 1 (41:05):
Well, I hope that you. My hope for you and
for any is just longevity. Like I think that would
be awesome to have you put out content forever because
I think that there there's a ton of passion there
and you know you you, and it's evident in the
videos that I've watched of yours. So I think that
(41:26):
that's that's really good. What And I know that you're
early in this, but for me, the fruits of like
podcasting were not what I expected. You know, I didn't
expect myself to ever be healed, you know, I didn't
have that expectation. I always thought I would be a
(41:47):
very jaded ex Morman you know, who is just jaded.
But I think that healing is is like the fruit
of this podcast that I do is I just feel
like soon good about everything. Like I don't feel angry,
I don't feel upset. I just feel like just kind
(42:07):
of is what it is. I've accepted it and I
moved on and I'm just walking with Jesus only.
Speaker 2 (42:15):
Like early, like in your whole.
Speaker 1 (42:17):
Podcasting, like what fruits have you seen from you know,
just like starting it and going, I mean, what fruits
have you seen so far?
Speaker 3 (42:29):
Well?
Speaker 4 (42:29):
It's I mean the main thing, which is what I
mainly want, is just a deeper relationship with God. Because
when he calls me to do something and then I'm
obedient to it, I grow more familiar with him, more
familiar with his word, I hear from him more, and
so it's just as I'm walking with him, I'm growing
closer to him and I'm recognizing him in more areas
(42:50):
of my life that I wasn't as aware of him in,
and so I would I would say, it's just like
all the fruits of the spirit, Like it's I just
hear him so much more clearly as I'm being obedient
to Him, and I'm like, there's days where I'm like,
I think I heard him say this, so let's just
go with it and then it turns into something beautiful
or I'll Prayer used to be something I really struggled with,
(43:14):
especially as a member of the LDS Church, because the
LDS Church puts so much emphasis on feelings that burning
in the bosom, like that could come from anything, and
so when I would used to pray, I didn't feel
like I got something from that. I never felt closer
to God from that. But over this last years, I've
really learned what it means to fully surrender to God
(43:35):
and to just be obedient and just to trust that
if I am hearing from God and I'm obedient, then
I'm going to be blessed from that, and usually the
blessing is a deeper relationship with Him. And if I
didn't hear from him, and that was a crazy random
thought that pops in my head.
Speaker 3 (43:50):
Well then there's grace for that. It's not going to
go anywhere, and that's fine.
Speaker 4 (43:54):
So just deeper relationship with God, which is what I
think we all have that desire in our hearts or
and that's how you gain it is by listening and
being obedient, surrendering to him.
Speaker 1 (44:06):
Yeah, yeah, I think that's a that's a really good point,
just that that relationship and communion with God.
Speaker 2 (44:16):
I mean, I yeah, I would.
Speaker 1 (44:20):
I would totally agree with you that sharing your faith
in you know, a beautiful and authentic way just strengthens
and deepens that that relationship that you have with God.
What does what does faith look like for you now?
Like I I look at my own life. My life
(44:40):
is amazing and beautiful and it is all grace because
I am a big idiot most of my life. I
just live this most like beautiful, beautiful wife, I have
beautiful kids, I have salvation, I like have the most
beautiful life. What what does it look like for you
as a Christian outside of more you've walked away from,
(45:02):
you know, the covenants that you've made in the in
the Mormon Church, Like, what does your life look like now?
Speaker 3 (45:10):
It's just all about Jesus. Some days I'm like, am
I like super obsessed? Like I'm like really obsessed. I'm like,
is this weird?
Speaker 4 (45:20):
But then I'm just like no, Like, look at how
beautiful my life is. I mean, I just even in
the last year of walking through what it really means
to partner with God has like I.
Speaker 3 (45:33):
Don't stress about anything anymore. Like every time that I'm like.
Speaker 4 (45:39):
For having a rough month financially, I'm just like, I mean,
God always works it out. It always works out as
long as we're seeking first the Kingdom of God, he
makes everything else work out. And I've seen that time
and time again in every single area of my life,
and every time that I take a chance on Him,
and I'm like, I'm going to trust you with this
and surrender it to you.
Speaker 3 (46:01):
Like not even that it's.
Speaker 4 (46:04):
A tangible effect that comes from that, but like within me,
I'm like, wow, Like I had more patience with my
daughter today and yesterday I was screaming my head off
at her, and like, how did that not happen today?
And so it's little things like that where I'm like
I'm seeing myself transform and I'm like I have no
answer for how this happened, and so every day it's
(46:26):
something like that. And that's to me, that's what it
really means to be living by faith is to just
really trust that God is who he says he is
in the Bible, and I don't have to try to
control anything. I don't have to try to be anything,
because even the good works that I do, they're not me,
Like I don't I'm not doing any of that. Like,
that's the Holy Spirit living through me. And the more
(46:47):
that I surrender to that and just rest in my
faith in trusting who God is, the more that He
lives through me and like pushes different behavior out of
me that I'm like, I didn't even know that I
can do that.
Speaker 2 (47:01):
Yeah, yeah, it's beautiful. I mean it's beautiful to walk.
Speaker 1 (47:05):
With with Jesus, you know can do I was when
I was listening to you on the other podcast. It
was so beautiful. At the end of that podcast, you
prayed and I was just like this, like you like
it was like so anointed. Like I don't know if
(47:27):
you you know use that terminology.
Speaker 4 (47:30):
Yes, okay, I did. My pastor anointed me for the podcast.
The first day came out. He made sure to pray
over my husband and I and anoint us.
Speaker 1 (47:41):
And oh well that's cool, Like yeah, that's really good.
So but it was just so anointed. I was like, man,
this is like just like a woman of God preaching
the gospel with a background that is similar, you know
to mine.
Speaker 2 (47:59):
And I was.
Speaker 1 (48:00):
I was, honestly, I was so moved by it. Like
I as I sat there, I remember exactly where I was.
I was in my kitchen and I was listening to
you pray and I thought like, oh wow, this is
like like just that one prayer is something that can
change people, and that can move people like someone who
(48:21):
has the spirit of God within them, and that that
is anointed by God can can change people. And so
I was so literally I listened to that podcast and
I text you and I said, hey, can I can.
I I was like so motivated to have you on
(48:42):
because I just thought it was just such a such
a such a beautiful thing. And so with that, every
guest that I have on, I let them get in
the last word because I talk way too much. So
what if there is one thing that you would love
to say to the Mormon community or the ex Mormon community,
(49:06):
what would that be?
Speaker 3 (49:09):
Jesus is everything Jesus is.
Speaker 4 (49:12):
For those who are in the Mormon community, there is
this belief and I know because I've been studying it hard.
Like my episode coming out tomorrow's on the Planet of Salvation.
My episode the following week is going to be on
exaltation and just looking at those things, those are Jesus
(49:34):
is so diminished in the LDS church. He's diminished to
a level of he is opening a door for you
to walk through so that you can then go over
this obstacle course and achieve everything that you can achieve.
He gave you that opportunity. But what the Bible says
is that Jesus did the obstacle course for you. You
(49:56):
don't have to do anything but accept him and allow
him to love you. And when you surrender to him,
that's everything. Like you don't need to work, you don't
need to strive. That's the word I always hear in
the LDS community is we just have to strive to
be our best. We have to strive to be obedient,
we have to strive to follow the prophet. But Jesus
(50:18):
never told us to strive. He told us to come
to him and he will shoulder our burdens, and he
will give us rest. And when you really read the Bible,
and you'd read it for what it is apart from
LDS doctrine, it's that Jesus there is so much sweeter
and so much more gentle and so kind and so
(50:38):
loving and so accepting, and he wants you to rest
in him. And it really is simple. You don't have
to jump through all these hoops. There's not all these
different levels of the kingdoms to get into. After it's
heaven and hell. There's two options, and Jesus is the
way to life. And when you can let go of
(51:01):
all those things, that is honestly the most freeing thing
that you will ever do.
Speaker 3 (51:06):
And then for.
Speaker 4 (51:07):
Those who are already out of the LDS community, I
live for ten years thinking like I did know Jesus,
but I wasn't walking with Jesus fully and I hadn't.
I think part of it was I didn't really truly heal,
and I don't know how I could have healed any sooner.
(51:27):
But don't let yourself fall into the lukewarm side of Christianity,
because when you do that, you're not going to see
the fruits of the spirit. Yes, you're saved, but you're
not going to live a life that is producing the
fruit of the spirit. You're not going to be walking
with God and growing closer to him if you're being lukewarm.
That requires complete surrender, that requires seeking, and those aren't
(51:52):
Those are just I don't want to say. It's like
you have to work to do those things. When you
really love Jesus and want him, God puts those desires
in your heart. So there's a scripture where God says,
I will give you the desires of your heart. But
part of that means that we need to be seeking
after God's heart. If we're seeking after God's heart, he
(52:14):
puts his desires into our heart, and that's where like
true love and joy and real life begins and life
with God is so exciting, like there's nothing boring about it.
And just seek, seek after God, and seek after Jesus
and pray for Him to revive your heart. And it's
(52:38):
going to happen, because that's a that's a prayer He
will always answer.
Speaker 2 (52:42):
That's right, preach it.
Speaker 1 (52:44):
I love that all right, And you know what, I
would love for my listeners to hear you pray if
that's if I'm not putting you on the spot too much.
Speaker 2 (52:54):
If you're cool with that, If you are, I just let.
Speaker 3 (52:57):
The Holy Spirit tell me what I need to say
in the moment.
Speaker 2 (53:00):
So I'm good. We're good, all right.
Speaker 1 (53:03):
So yeah, if you would, if you would close us
out in prayer, and then I'll I'll talk.
Speaker 2 (53:07):
Them, we'll finish it up.
Speaker 3 (53:08):
Perfect.
Speaker 4 (53:10):
Father, God, we just come before you so humbly. We
just love you so much and we're so grateful for
this opportunity that you've that you've orchestrated. You've brought this
all together. You put us in the same Facebook group.
You had me on this other guy, Patrick's podcast, one
hundred Fold Testimony. You had him reach out to me
to make that happen, and then you had Ky listen
(53:30):
to that podcast. So got everything that has happened, from
my podcast to Kai's podcast, to us coming.
Speaker 3 (53:35):
Out of Mormonism. Everything from the very beginning.
Speaker 4 (53:38):
You knew that it was going to happen, because you
know the path that you have for us. You've walked
us through it all, Father, and I know that you're
speaking to both of us. You've brought us exactly to
this moment. And because I know that you've done that, Father,
I know that you have specific people that this podcast
is going to reach. You have specific people that you've
been preparing to hear this message for their entire lives.
(54:01):
You've gotten them ready, You've primed their ears, Father, You've
gotten the soil of their hearts ready. And Father, I
just pray that the seeds that are planted today that
they fall on the fertile soil that you talk about
in Matthew. I pray that there will be a hedge
of protection around each seed that's planted, so that the enemy.
Speaker 3 (54:20):
Cannot snatch it away, just like you said, Father.
Speaker 4 (54:23):
And I pray that those who are still within the
LDS Church. Father, I pray that they will have a
desire placed in their hearts by you.
Speaker 3 (54:33):
I pray that you.
Speaker 4 (54:34):
Will fill them with such a strong desire that they
cannot ignore it. Father, and I pray that they will
be given discernment and that you will put a protection
around every truth that's in them and show them where
things don't line up with what you have for them. Father,
I know that there's so many that you have chosen
within the LDS Church, and there's so many who truly
(54:55):
love you, and they're lacking discernment and they are lacking
not and you say that your people will perish for
a lack of knowledge. So I just pray that you
will open eyes, you will remove the shield that is
blocking people from understanding, Father, and I pray that you
will just bring a revival, bring that revival to the
LDS Church and help them come away and become biblical Christians. Father,
(55:19):
those who have left and have become agnostic, I pray
that you will put a fire in their hearts to know,
try and figure out what's missing, because that's you, Father,
You are missing from everyone who has not experienced you
fully as their God, the one who has sent Jesus
to save them, who has sence the Holy Spirit to
(55:39):
fill them, to guide them and to lead them in
the way that they should go, and to teach them. Father,
we just thank you so much. We're going to thank
you right now, Father, for every single person that you
are saving, for every single person who you are going
to speak truth to with this podcast. I know that
they're out there because that's why we're here, and I
know that you will use it to further your kingdom.
(56:01):
And that's what our desire is, Father, that we can
teach your words, the way that you have for us
to teach, and we know that you have a specific
mission for both of us. And Lord, I just want
to speak, especially over Kai in this moment, that you
will continue to lead him and direct his steps, that
you will give him personal revelation and exactly how you
have for him to continue with this podcast, and that
(56:23):
he will be given the exact words that you have
for him to speak.
Speaker 3 (56:28):
And I just pray all this in Jesus. Amen.
Speaker 1 (56:32):
Amen, beautiful Katie, thank you the Pink Apostle. You guys
get on there. I just I think it's beautiful. Like
I think that I do believe that prayer changes everything.
I appreciate you praying over me. I mean, we we're
brothers and sisters in Christ. We're part of the body
(56:54):
of Christ.
Speaker 2 (56:57):
Gosh. I pray for Revible too. Pray for Revival.
Speaker 3 (57:02):
Seventeen million, seventeen million ethers and sisters.
Speaker 1 (57:07):
I know, I've I'll just share this because I feel
like I say it sometimes tongue in cheek, even though
I believe it. I've had so many dreams in my
life about this. Since leaving Mormonism and getting saved. I
(57:29):
had a dream where there were sister missionaries, tags on everything,
just raising their hands in worship, in full surrender and
giving their lives over to Jesus. I had a lady
come to be a church over here, put her hands
on me, and I said, She says, what do you
want me to pray for?
Speaker 2 (57:49):
I said, I just want to pray that my.
Speaker 1 (57:54):
I just want to pray that I'm able to leave
Mormonism completely in the past and behind I was writing
about garments. I was just journaling down about garments. And
she says, I pray that every Mormon will take off
their She I didn't bring this up to her. She said,
I pray every Mormon will take off their garments, leave
(58:14):
and just follow the one True Jesus. And I'm like,
oh my gosh, I was just talking about this yesterday.
And I just believe, like I honestly believe that that
is what needs to happen in the Mormon Church, is
that people there needs to be this revival. I look
at how apathetic even people were who went who I
(58:34):
went to church with, and it's because they don't they
haven't had this same experience that you and I are
talking about, right, I mean, just for being real, like.
Speaker 2 (58:45):
We've experienced these things that it's like, that is God,
that is Jesus, that's the Jesus. Like I've had these
deep intimate relationship with him. You're getting me all a mess.
Speaker 4 (59:00):
So now I love that you brought up that you
had dreams and something that over the last year, one
of the things that I started to become more aware
of is that dreams is the way that God speaks
to people.
Speaker 3 (59:12):
These days.
Speaker 4 (59:13):
I was always like, oh, yeah, he talked to Daniel
like that, he talked to Joseph like that, and I.
Speaker 3 (59:17):
Became like I heard somebody that came.
Speaker 4 (59:19):
Somebody I followed wrote a book about dreams, and I
was like, so I listened to it, and I was
just like, God, I really want to hear you in
my dreams. I've never really felt that. And it's wild
because he gave he brought to my memory dreams I
had as a child, like dreams that I had over
and over and over again, and he was like, those
are prophetic dreams for where you're at right now. And
(59:40):
over the last year, I've increasingly had more dreams and
we're all wake up and God's like, remember that one
and pray about it and it's like it's been wild
how he's and each dream that I take and I steward, well,
I tell the right people. I am seeking the right interpretation,
like there's a way to do it, in a way
(01:00:01):
not to do it, and God will teach you how
to do it if you if you get to that point.
But it's it's really cool how as I'm like, I
want dreams from you and God will give me dreams.
Speaker 3 (01:00:10):
And I'm like, well, I want this spiritual gift.
Speaker 4 (01:00:12):
And God's like, you need to forgive this person if
you want that gift because your unforgiveness is blocking you
for receiving. And I'm like, okay, then I'll go do
that forgiveness. And I'm like I thought i'd forgiven that person,
but I guess not. I guess we have to have
a conversation that I've been avoiding, and I go and
have that conversation and my life was completely changed after that.
So it's just like it's life changing, transformational moment over
(01:00:34):
and over and over and over. And God wants to
have those experiences with you. Like God's not a God
that says just have faith in me until the end.
Like God will build on every experience and increase your
faith like every single day, if that's what you're asking for.
Speaker 1 (01:00:53):
Yeah, yeah, well, he says, drawn near to me, and
I will draw near to you, right, so like we yeah,
and that's really what I've experienced, you know, throughout my
I've been saved three years now, and I've experienced that
just like over and over and over again, like just
an outpouring of the spirit. Okay, well, I told you
(01:01:14):
to be an hour and we're over that. I really
appreciate you being on my podcast and just sharing your
beliefs and praying for me, praying for our people, really Mormons,
and yeah, I love you guys, everybody on here who's listening,
and uh yeah until next time.
Speaker 3 (01:01:35):
Yeah, thanks for having me on. It was nice to
talk to you all.
Speaker 2 (01:01:38):
Yeah,
Welcome to another edition of Jesus for Mormons. Today, I
am joined by Katie the Pink Apostle. Hey Katie, how
you doing.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
Hey?
Speaker 3 (00:15):
I'm doing great. I'm excited to be here. How are you?
Speaker 2 (00:18):
Oh, I'm doing awesome.
Speaker 1 (00:20):
Okay, I have a big question for you.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
Will there be.
Speaker 1 (00:24):
A mass exodus from the Mormon Church and those people
will then become Christian?
Speaker 3 (00:31):
Okay?
Speaker 4 (00:32):
So I do believe there will be a mass exodus
because we've already been seeing it happen. Now, I think
that whether they become Christian is the main question. Is
because I feel like most Mormons truly truly have a
deep love for Jesus. They really really do. The issue
(00:54):
is that the theology is incorrect. If you look at
the LS doctrine versus the Bible and so, people who
truly love Jesus and then find out that there's pieces
of that doctrine that's not right, they're more likely to
just leave everything altogether, and I think go the agnostic
atheist route. So that's where what I'm trying to do
(01:15):
is show that Biblical theology LDS theology. They're not the same.
Jesus Israel, Jesus is still alive. He's still around, and
I hope that more ex Mormons will become Christian.
Speaker 1 (01:27):
Yeah, I think I think there's also another move that
could happen. The Mormon Church could change its underlying theology. Yea,
they could, which would be awesome. If they got rid
of a lot of their main core theology, it would
be awesome. Like it would be great and they just said, hey,
(01:48):
we're following Biblical Christianity. Sorry Joseph, sorry Brigham, you're getting
thrown under the bus, and we are just now going
to walk in a new way. I would love for
that to happen. I would I I'm going to pre
I'm going to call this the Mormon Revival where seventeen
(02:10):
million Mormons put away all the old stuff, put away
the temple, put away all of those feelings, and just
choose to follow Jesus. I think that would be amazing,
and the leadership could push that forward. What are your
(02:30):
thoughts on that, Katie?
Speaker 4 (02:31):
Okay, if the leadership is going to push that forward,
they're literally saying we're not in the leadership position anymore.
Speaker 3 (02:37):
There is no profit of the church. If they're going
to go biblical.
Speaker 4 (02:41):
I mean it, like completely, They're going to have to
let go of literally everything. And it's like, I mean,
the Mormon churchies won't exist anymore because it's all based
on the Book of Mormon and doctrine and covenants and
Joseph Smith and like all those things.
Speaker 3 (02:57):
You can't believe in those things. If you're going to
claim the Bible as your.
Speaker 2 (03:01):
Yeah, and I would say that.
Speaker 1 (03:02):
I would say it's possible though, because it is such
an authoritarian church. Whatever the prophet says goes. So if
the prophet says, hey, come on, follow the profit, follow
you guys don't know, I could sing.
Speaker 4 (03:18):
Yeah, oh no, theck has arrived, dude.
Speaker 2 (03:26):
I could sing all twelve verses of that song.
Speaker 3 (03:28):
Oh tell me it wasn't your voice.
Speaker 1 (03:31):
Yeah, the voice you're telling me I have a chance
at singing career. No, but I think that people will
follow a top down I mean I watched this firsthand.
I won't say what relationship these people had to me,
but there were some people who were very close to me,
anti vaccine, anti you know, getting the JAB, were very
(03:54):
vocal about it. The church came out and said, hey,
you guys need to be vaccinated. They went out the
next week and got vaccinated. I mean, these are not
people who are These are intelligent people. These are people
who can think for themselves, are very successful in their life.
They were like, Okay, I'm gonna go get the jab.
(04:15):
The prophet says it. Follow the prophet. And so I
think that if the church did change a lot of
its theology got rid of the temple, which I think
they could do. I think they could get rid of
a lot of these things. And if it came from
the prophet, I actually think that they would get a
free pass a lot more than in a lot of
(04:37):
like in the Christian Church, they could not adopt Mormon
theology and have people stay in the pews. It would
not happen. People would jump ship and they would change churches.
In the Mormon Church, they would stay in there and
follow you know that person because they've they've followed the
(04:57):
profit with a lot more troubling things. Polygamy, blacks. I mean,
you can go down the line blacks in the Prestood,
you can go down the line on things that they
followed them with. I don't know, maybe I'm wrong.
Speaker 4 (05:13):
I think if the prophet did come out and say
something like that and did some major theological shifts, we
would see a massive exodus of people who are going
to stick with the current doctrine, just the way that
the fundamental LDS stuck with polygamy and they branched off.
Speaker 3 (05:29):
So I think we.
Speaker 4 (05:30):
Would see something like that those who lean a little
more biblical Christian in the Mormon Church, because I don't
think everybody believes in the original doctrine. And that's the issue,
is that if we're going to believe in the Mormon Church,
we have to look at the doctrine that's the foundation
of it all. But again, like you can't have the
profit of the church and it still be biblical because
(05:52):
we don't have a prophet in these days. Jesus was
the final like Jesus fulfilled everything that the prophets in
the Old Testament were coming to bring. And I don't
think that the Mormon Church could be without temples because
the temples are required for us to achieve exaltation. So like,
where would exaltation come from that there weren't temples to
do the temple work?
Speaker 1 (06:12):
I think you would. This is something I've actually really
thought about. The temple could just be a nod to
the past, It could just be this kind of relic
of history, but not it doesn't have any special spiritual significance, right,
(06:33):
And you could just be like, oh, that was an
interesting look into Mormonism of the past, but not because
I think that people who go into the temple not
knowing anything about it, a lot of them are freaked out.
Speaker 3 (06:48):
And I actually can brace me out. The first time
I went in.
Speaker 1 (06:52):
Okay, it didn't freak me out because I had a
brother that was very freaked out by it. Sorry, brother,
I'm outing you on this podcast, who was very freaked
out by it. And my parents made sure like, hey,
when you go in there, just like, don't get freaked
out by anything, pretty much is what they told me. So,
and so I was like anticipating it being a lot
(07:15):
worse and a lot like crazier.
Speaker 2 (07:19):
Than it was.
Speaker 1 (07:20):
And so then when I went in and I was like, oh, like,
I'm I'm sorry people, Mormon people, it was.
Speaker 2 (07:28):
It put me to sleep.
Speaker 1 (07:29):
It was very like it was not exciting, It wasn't exhilarating.
It was just like sitting down and watching a movie
that wasn't that exciting. Sorry, I'm sorry if that hurts
people's feelings.
Speaker 4 (07:42):
But if you watch did you go to the one
with the video or did you go to the one with.
Speaker 3 (07:45):
The live action?
Speaker 1 (07:46):
Okay, so I went to the video first, and then
I went live action in the Salt Lake Temple, which
I'm glad I did. I mean, I don't know, that's
kind of a rustle, but I'm glad I experienced the
live before they've just like now, they've just gutted Salt
Lake City Temple and it's just a bunch of movie
theaters pretty much inside there. Whereas for me, I got
(08:09):
to walk through it. People got to act their parts,
which I think would be cool as a nod to
the past, like if you're Biblical Christian and you've changed
all your theology and you just want to have a
nod to the past. What I don't think that the
Mormon Church leaders understand is that what they're holding on to,
(08:33):
most people in the church are probably not holding on
to and it's not that important to them, like these
theological things like the temple. I'm sorry, man, I'm going
with such hot takes today. I'm sorry, but no one
goes to the temple. Like even before my faith crisis,
(08:53):
when there were a lot more members of the church,
no one went to the Temple.
Speaker 4 (08:59):
So because that the temple recommend questions, people weren't actually
passing all of those.
Speaker 1 (09:05):
I don't know who was a full temple recommend holder
when I was in like the elderscorem presidencies and stuff,
I didn't really have access to that. I knew who
was in doubt at one point, but I didn't know
who actually held a temple recommend at the time. But
I think that I think that it is not as
(09:28):
big of a priority for people to go to the Temple.
I just don't think it's something like I don't I
think if they're choosing Friday night, am I gonna go
to a rock concert or a Mariner's game, sorry, a
baseball game or a you know, Huskies game, sorry I'm
(09:49):
from Seattle area college football game or whatever, like if
I if I have to choose between those two, like,
I'm gonna do something that's a little more entertaining because
the temp is just not really that exhilarating or captivating.
And I would have never said that as a member.
I would have said the Temple is the most beautiful
(10:09):
place on earth. But I think, deep down inside, I
don't know how much people feel that way. Interesting that's
my feeling.
Speaker 2 (10:19):
Maybe I haven't.
Speaker 4 (10:20):
I haven't been in that world for a good eleven
years now. But when when that was for me, that
was like top priority, Like we've got to get over there,
We've got to find ways to get our friends over there,
we've got to find ways to get the youth over there.
Speaker 3 (10:33):
And I my last.
Speaker 4 (10:34):
Calling was in young women's and so we were just like,
how do we get the young women's too, the temple
and all of those things. So for me growing up,
it was always like that this is top priority because
this is eternal work that needs to be done.
Speaker 2 (10:49):
Yeah, but if you die, somebody else will do it.
You know this is true? Okay, So I listen.
Speaker 1 (10:57):
Yeah, Nope, not going to go with untasteful jokes today.
Speaker 2 (11:02):
But I was listening to a great podcast that you
were on where you talked.
Speaker 1 (11:08):
About your brother and how your brother was really instrumental
in you leaving the church. Can you talk a little
bit about that, about what kind of happened and what
was going on in your life. I assume you're fully
active member, but just talk talk through that.
Speaker 3 (11:28):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (11:29):
So, at the time, I was living in South Texas, McCallan, Texas,
and I wasn't necessarily fully accepting that I was doubting
my faith, but I had a lot of questions, and
every time I had a question, it was like that
Elder Updorf quote, doubt your doubts before you doubt your faith.
So I was like, Okay, well, I'm just going to
(11:49):
keep reading the end Sign. I'm going to keep reading
my patriarchal Blessing, keep reading the Book of Mormon Doctrine
and Covenants, but also simultaneously watching my uncle's sermons as
a Denominational Christian pastor and really getting so much more
from that. But I was just like, there's got to
be somewhere where this intersect, like this has to make
(12:10):
sense together. And I mean I had questions like so
if if I die and my I mean, I was
sealed in the temple to my spouse at that time,
But I was like, what if we weren't sealed, then
It's like if we both died but everything else was right,
then we would both be in heaven, we just like
would be separated just from each other or like I
(12:34):
was just trying to make sense of how do how
do we all end up in heaven? But we all
have varying degrees of what gets like varying degrees of
good work. So what if I end up in the
highest level slasial kingdom, but one of my family members
ends up in the trestrial kingdom, then it's like I
can go down, but he can't come up. But then, like,
am I allowed to even do that? Because then he
(12:54):
can't see me if he's like held to these specific standards,
And so it was like stuff like that that I
was just like, I don't know how to make sense
of this, and I just kind of kept coming back
to the basics of let me just have a relationship
with Jesus.
Speaker 3 (13:07):
Love is the greatest of all.
Speaker 4 (13:10):
And my brother was getting to a point where he
was about to go serve a mission.
Speaker 3 (13:14):
I don't remember where he was called to, but it was.
Speaker 4 (13:17):
A couple of weeks before he was going to lead,
and he announced to the family that he no longer
believed in the church, so he couldn't go do a
mission where he was teaching people something he didn't believe
in hope that we.
Speaker 3 (13:29):
Could support his choice.
Speaker 4 (13:31):
And when he settle that, I was kind of like, interesting,
I wonder what it is that is making him feel
that way. Like this came out of left field. I
had no idea he had any kind of doubts, And
after kind of thinking on it for a bit, I
was like, you know what, Oh, And one of the
reasons I stuffed my doubts down the hold doubt your
(13:53):
doubts before you doubt your faith is I was terrified
of giving the devil a foothold, because that's what you're
taught is if you look into your doubts, the devil's
going to swoop in and take you away from the
Restored Church, and then you're going to end up a
boss state in out of darkness. And so I was like,
I don't want that to happen. And the prophet says
that we just have to keep leaning on what's on
what they say, and so I'm going to keep doing that,
(14:15):
but I'm not really getting peace and I'm not really
getting answers.
Speaker 3 (14:19):
That last it was kind of.
Speaker 4 (14:20):
Like this roller coaster of Oh, everything's great, I'm as
hard core of a Mormon as I can be, and
then the other side.
Speaker 3 (14:28):
Of it, I'd be like, well, now I have these questions
that I can't figure out an.
Speaker 4 (14:31):
Answer, and just like up and down of not knowing
exactly what I wanted, what I believed, or how to
answer questions that I was having.
Speaker 3 (14:40):
And so when my brother announced that.
Speaker 4 (14:43):
I was like, this is my loophole, Like I can
go ask him if he like, I can ask him
what his doubts are, and maybe we have the same questions.
And then it's not me giving the devil a foothold
when we go search the answers because I'm going to
save him.
Speaker 3 (14:55):
I'm going to bring him back into the restored church.
Speaker 4 (14:58):
And then like I'm like the backseat, this is my
secret the whole time that it's really my doubts I'm wanting.
Speaker 3 (15:05):
To like look into.
Speaker 4 (15:06):
And when I reached out to him, I said, hey,
I know that you don't believe it anymore, but I'm
just really curious why, because I've had some doubts too,
Like we can relate with each other and so you know,
let's just let's look into it together.
Speaker 3 (15:20):
And he was like, I'm going to send you something.
Speaker 4 (15:22):
And you read it and then we can talk, and
I was like okay, And so he sent me the
Cees Letter and I'd never heard of it before.
Speaker 3 (15:31):
And when I was trying to decide if I was
going to read this or not.
Speaker 4 (15:35):
I was just praying and I felt like God was like,
I am so much bigger than the devil, So why
are you so afraid the Devil's going to take you
away from truth? When I'm God and you're seeking me,
So why do you think I can't protect you from that?
And so I was like, that actually makes more sense
than anything else I've been trying to figure out.
Speaker 3 (15:54):
And so I was like, you know what, I'm going
to read it, and I mean that was it.
Speaker 4 (15:59):
I read through that letter in about it took me
about hour and a half to two hours, and I
just remember sitting on the couch and just being like,
all of a sudden, it's just like all the pieces
were clicking together, and I had the burning in the bosom,
and I was like, that's weird because we're only supposed
to get that for the Holy Ghost telling us that
the Book of Mormon is true? So why am I
getting a burnie in my bosom over the CES letter?
(16:21):
And from there, I was just like, I can't reconcile
any of these and if the Church can't reconcile any
any of these things either, then I have to believe
that it's true, and I mean I did go on
from there to do some more of my own research,
but in general, I was just like that was it
for me.
Speaker 3 (16:39):
I was like, I can't believe in this anymore.
Speaker 2 (16:42):
Yeah. Yeah, And for me it was that black and
white as well.
Speaker 1 (16:45):
That's why I kind of loved that portion of your
story that I heard about, because for me, I was like,
I can't be a part of this at all. And
I was so hardcore into it, you know, the I
mean I was, I'm reading the CS letter, I probably
just paid tithing that week, I'm wearing garments, I'm doing
(17:06):
the whole thing, and then I'm just out and I'm
cut loose and don't know if I believe in God anymore.
Speaker 2 (17:15):
Jesus, you know, just like.
Speaker 1 (17:17):
I didn't have you, You seem to be influenced by
some family members that you had. What was what was
that like for them? Were they pretty as we would
call anti Mormon? I put that quote that just means
like biblical Christianity. They were they super anti Mormon with
(17:39):
your family? Or were they just like nothing, like, oh
that's nice. What approach did they take?
Speaker 4 (17:50):
So my aunt, my uncle they both went to b
YU that's where they actually met. They were the two
only like non Mormons that went to b YU. My
uncle was there on a football scollship. My aunt was
there on a track scholarship, and so my uncle played
for BYU and he still he was just on the
BYU Cougar's cruise like a week ago, like speaking to them.
So he's always going back and preaching sermons. And even
(18:14):
when in the church my dad was a bishop, whenever
my aunt uncle came into town, my dad invited my
uncle to speak, and he would come in and speak
Jesus to all the Mormons, and so, yes, the theology
is biblical, but they were always like, let's get in
there and tell them about Jesus, Like that's what Jesus
(18:36):
is about. And I remember, I just I knew there's
something different about them. Even at eight years old, I
had a book of Mormon. I remember putting stickers in
it and I wrote my testimony inside the cupboard. I
gave it to my uncle, thinking this is going to
save them. They loved Jesus so much and now they
can be part of the restored true Church that never happened.
(18:58):
And I was always like that was one of my
super confusing questions. I was like, if this is true,
with how much they love Jesus, do they just want
to drink alcohol and coffee? Is is that why they
won't become Mormon? Like I was like, that's the only
thing I can figure out, because I know.
Speaker 3 (19:12):
That they love Jesus and Jesus changed their lives.
Speaker 4 (19:16):
But when I reached I had been watching their church
planners out in North Carolina, and so I had always
been watching my uncle's sermons, and so when I was like,
I cannot believe in the LDS Church anymore, but I
know I believe in Jesus and I want the Jesus
that my aunt and uncle preach about.
Speaker 3 (19:34):
And so I reached out by text.
Speaker 4 (19:36):
I was like, Hey, I know I live in San
Antonio and y'all are in North Carolina, but if there's
any way I can be involved with your church from here,
just let me know. And they called me like within
five minutes and were like what's going on?
Speaker 3 (19:50):
Like why would why are you saying this?
Speaker 4 (19:53):
And I was just like I told them that whole
story of reading the CES letter and where I was
at at that point, and my uncle was like, all right,
I've got stuff for you.
Speaker 3 (20:02):
So he sent me my first Bible. He sent me
all these.
Speaker 4 (20:05):
Books to read and gave me a ton of resources.
And it was just like any questions I had. I
was texting and calling them and they were answering and
guiding me every step of the way. They got me
connected with the biblical church here that they knew was trustworthy.
And so yeah, they were just like they said, We've
been praying that you would be crushed under the weight
(20:26):
of religion to the point where you had no no
nowhere to turn but to Jesus. And so I know
that they've been praying for me, and is that they've
been praying for my family. And so while they always
loved and accepted us, but they always prayed Jesus and
preached Jesus and were that living example of what it's
(20:47):
like to live with Jesus.
Speaker 1 (20:49):
Okay, So I'm very curious on their approach because I've
thought of changing my approach. I'm snarky, I throw jabs
at the church. I do all of those things right,
but maybe maybe that's not the right approach, and I'm
totally open to being wrong. I love that when I
was eventually saved, there were people that I really trusted,
(21:14):
who I felt like I wanted to turn to and
be like, hey, I don't believe in God. I'm just
gonna put that out there for you guys, but what
do you think about this part of the Bible? And
so I was able to because these were people that
I had relationships with that were outside of you know,
(21:35):
outside of even Christianity, definitely outside of Mormonism. I wasn't
really looking for that perspective, but I had trusted Christian
friends and associates that I was able to talk to.
Do you think that made a huge difference for you
having that family family member preach it, preach the gospel
(21:56):
to you. And then kind of a second part of
that is were they ever like super anti Mormon? I
guess is maybe a really good question, Like were they like, well,
did you know that Joseph Smith was married to a
fourteen year old?
Speaker 2 (22:11):
Did you know this?
Speaker 1 (22:13):
Like was that a part of the dialogue that you
had with your with your aunt and uncle.
Speaker 4 (22:20):
No, we never got into the church history side of things.
It was always We're just going to focus on how
good Jesus is and what his true nature is, because
ultimately that's all that matters. Yes, there's all these evident
heary issues with the church, but the focus is always Jesus.
We always preach Jesus, we always preach grace. The Elis
(22:43):
Church obviously teaches a workspaceed and they say it's not salvation,
but it's workspaceed exaltation and salvation is just a stepping
stone to get there. And so with uh, with the
with the Bible, it's not, oh, Jesus saved you so
that you could then become the best version of yourself. No,
(23:05):
like Jesus saved us to restore relationship with him. Like
it wasn't so that we could become more than we are.
And we're not even the same species as Jesus. And
that's like, that was the most fine blowing thing to me.
I'm like, he's not my brother, he is my Lord
and my savior. Like we're not even on the same level,
and let alone Satan being on the same level as
(23:26):
all of that. But just keeping it very I do
wonder sometimes if they had been more bold and like
this is true and this is false. But at the
same time, there's I don't remember the reference, but there's
that verse that says that it's foolishness to those who
don't have the Holy Spirit. And so it's like I
heard the Gospel so many times, but I didn't have
(23:48):
ears to hear. I didn't have eyes to see until
it was the timing that God anointed for me to
have the truth, and then it all made sense, it
all came together.
Speaker 1 (24:00):
Yeah. Yeah, it makes me really think about changing my approach.
I mean, if I'm being honest in general, I mean
I come from I came from a very jaded you know,
after leaving the church, very jaded, and now I'm super happy.
But I like to poke fun at the church, have
(24:22):
fun with that, and so it's just kind of like,
oh should I Is that the wrong way to do it?
And is there a problem with that? I've been actually
really wrestling with that over the last you know, a
few months, is.
Speaker 2 (24:35):
Like, is this the best way to evangelize? I don't know.
Speaker 1 (24:39):
I mean, that's that's something that I haven't yet felt
conviction to move either way. But I look at like
people who leave in the healthiest ways, people who leave
the Mormon Church in the healthiest ways, are like those
who are like, yeah, the church just wasn't doing it
for me, Like I know it's named the Church of
(25:00):
Jesus Christ, but there ain't a lot of Jesus in it,
and I need something more, Like I feel constantly beat
down by not fulfilling my calling very well, by not
like even having the assurance of salvation all of those things.
Like I just feel beat down by that, and I
just want like what's promised in the Bible, Like I
(25:23):
want rest. I want like those are the healthiest people.
I don't know if you see that as well, like
in what you do or the interactions you've had with
with people who have left the Mormon Church and are
now Christian.
Speaker 4 (25:37):
I actually haven't had a whole lot of interaction with
people who have left and become Christian. Like I said,
everybody that I've seen come out other than one person
is either agnostic or atheist.
Speaker 3 (25:50):
And for me, it was really.
Speaker 4 (25:53):
Important for my tone on the podcast to be as gentle, firm,
and bold as possible because I know that you were
saying snarky. If you're snarky, then they might take it as, oh,
you're calling me stupid. You think I'm an idiot because
I believe this, so they don't have any respect there
to be like, let me listen to your opinion, they're
just going to be like whatever. And so for me,
(26:15):
it was my it's really important for me to have
that tone. And then a lot of I mean, almost
every ex Mormon podcast I've listened to has more of
that snarky and not not X Mormon Christian, but like
I mean, I think I'm the first or maybe the
second like female post ex Mormon Christian, but there's a
(26:36):
lot of agnostic, atheist x Mormons that are more deconstructing
faith and it's all very snarky. And I just don't
think that anybody who's like really trying to really look
at truth and love and looking for Jesus, I don't
think that they're going to stick around. If it's that
tone of voice, They're gonna want something that's being more gentle.
Speaker 2 (26:59):
Katie convicting me right now, that's.
Speaker 1 (27:07):
Hey for those of you who don't really know what
that like, conviction, like convicting somebody means like you feel like, oh, well,
maybe I should reevaluate this, maybe I should change and
move in a different direction. And I think because the
thing is, when I started podcasting, I was so angry,
right like, I wasn't fully healed, and I even went
(27:27):
to God and I was like, hey, I don't feel like,
I know my theology is crazy and I know I'm
not like feeling like super healed in doing this, and
he was just like just started. I'm like, okay, cool,
I'll hit record. And so it's changed. And I think
that as I've seen like people who have shifted, and
(27:50):
the people I know who have done it the healthiest way,
they've just been like, gosh, the Bible doesn't line up
with Mormon theology, and I kind of am trusting the
Bible a little more than Mormonthiale and they and then
they switch like that, like then they're just gone, it
doesn't matter. They just say I'm gonna choose to follow
Jesus and not the prophets. Right, I'm gonna put that
(28:15):
in air quotes. And that's not me being snarky. Followed
the prophets, Okay, So I'll be a little nicer on
this one and maybe not throw as many jabs back
of the church. I thought it was interesting that you
talked about your brother leaving. When he left the church,
my brother also left after going on a mission for
a few weeks. Yeah, so I remember that tension that
(28:39):
existed in the home that I grew up in. Did
that cause any prob I mean your dad, you said
he served as a bishop. As I read through and
listened to another podcast you were on, you said he
worked for the church, worked in the church education system.
Speaker 2 (28:56):
All of those things. What did that do? Like in
your family, was there tension? Was there? Was it kind
of okay? Well, how did that get settled?
Speaker 4 (29:06):
So I was already I'm the oldest of five and
my brother was number three, and so I was already
out of the house, married with a kid across the country.
So I couldn't speak to the tension that was there.
But I don't think that there was anytention. Even when
I left the church, I wrote my parents a letter
and I was just like, look, you raised me to
think critically, You raised me to make smart decisions and
(29:28):
wise decisions, and this is why I'm making this decision.
And they are always my parents first and foremost just
wanted all of us to know that they loved us
no matter what, and that they supported us no matter what.
And so there was never any of that tension that
you hear about from other LDS families.
Speaker 3 (29:45):
I don't think any me or my brother felt any
of that when we left.
Speaker 1 (29:50):
Wow, that's really cool. That's a good thing. Do you
think that made it? I mean, do you think that
made it feel a little bit better? Like because I
think about all the tension that existed when I told
my parents I was leaving the church and yeah, I
(30:16):
don't know, I'm not I'm not going to probably delve
into that subject today, but.
Speaker 2 (30:25):
Yeah, I don't know. It makes me.
Speaker 1 (30:27):
It makes me really sad just thinking about it right now.
Just you know, in April of twenty twenty five, what
do you think that made it easier to like hop
into that, to hop into your h to become Christian
and do that with your parents and kind of how
(30:49):
they approach it or what.
Speaker 2 (30:52):
I don't know.
Speaker 4 (30:53):
I didn't really know that was how they were going
to react, so I was I was terrified to tell them.
I don't know that it made it easier on me
at that point, But afterwards, the fact that I didn't
lose the relationship with my family that was like that,
I mean, that's the thing that I was scared of
the most was losing relationship with them, and so the
fact that I didn't it made it I don't know
(31:17):
if easier is the right word. I guess like comfortable
like it. But but we also we didn't have a
lot of deep conversations, Like I still haven't like had
full deep conversations with my brothers and sisters about.
Speaker 3 (31:31):
Like what I believe in now.
Speaker 4 (31:32):
Like this my podcast is me coming out and finally
talking about what my beliefs are now.
Speaker 3 (31:39):
And like specifically. And so.
Speaker 4 (31:43):
I think through my family, we don't do conflict. Well,
so we just love each other when there's a conflict.
Speaker 2 (31:51):
Oh well that means you do conflict. Well, I don't know,
but I mean.
Speaker 4 (31:55):
It's like there's no like we don't discuss anything. It's
just kind of all sweet but under the rug love
and support you no matter what. So there's like a
very positive side of that, but there's also like I'm like,
I wish that we could have deeper conversations and like
talk through some of these things.
Speaker 1 (32:10):
Mm. Yeah, that's that's interesting that you that you. I
just think it's great though that they love you and
support you and and do that. I mean I think
that I think that says says a lot about.
Speaker 2 (32:26):
Your about your family.
Speaker 1 (32:28):
Yeah, I'm I was thinking it was kind of kind
of going a different direction with like maybe maybe you
or your brother is kind of radioactive at this point.
But that's great that they that they do that. So
as you talk with people like about your your ministry. Okay,
so let's talk about it a little bit. The Pink Apostle. Okay,
(32:51):
Now this is I would love this if tomorrow, after
the day after this releases, I would love it if
everyone who subscribes to my channel subscribes to the Pink Apostle.
Speaker 3 (33:03):
I think that would be amazing.
Speaker 1 (33:05):
That would be rad because you are, like I love
your content. I'm just going to be straight up and honest.
I think you do a really really good job at
presenting the information. You have a great brand, you have,
you push out great, great stuff. And I would love
(33:25):
if three years from now, I'm like I did an
early interview with her, she has a million subscribers seventy eighteen.
I ain't got nothing to do with me twenteen million subscribers,
right because that's that's how many members of the church
star a right now, and they all came to know Jesus. Like,
(33:49):
I would absolutely love that, Like I think that I
think that this is what is needed, Like within the
body of Christ. There need to be people who come
out and say, hey, this was my background, this is
where I was at. Like you seem to come from
from a good background with with your family, your dad
(34:10):
was a bishop, all these things that gives that that
is a data.
Speaker 2 (34:14):
Point for people. You know.
Speaker 1 (34:16):
I just hope that there are literally hundreds of ex
Mormon Christian podcasts that people can listen to and resonate,
you know, with with with whatever they're trying to to
talk about, as long as it pushes them towards you know,
biblical Christianity. And so that's what I'm saying. If you
(34:37):
listen to my podcast, go and subscribe to the Pink Apostle,
I think that would be that'd be really good. What
is your what is your end goal? I think it's
I think it's always interesting to talk about that. When
I started podcasting, my end goal was to have twenty subscribers,
(34:57):
turn the camera off and never pod cast again. Just
tell my story. What is your end goal? Like, what's
your what do you want to do? What do you
want to accomplish?
Speaker 4 (35:10):
I mean, I'm just going till God says stop. Like
this wasn't something that I thought I was ever going
to do. It was probably around a year ago that
I just I started seeing the that there's a verse
in Revelation talking about lukewarm Christians, and there's a verse
in Matthew where Jesus says like you can call tell
(35:33):
me that you cast out demons in my name, and I.
Speaker 3 (35:36):
Will say I never knew you.
Speaker 4 (35:37):
And I just I just felt like God was like
bombarding me with these verses to like catch my attention.
And I was like, you know what, Like what am
I doing for the kingdom? What am I actually doing?
Am I actually living the way that Jesus like expects
me to act as his follower?
Speaker 3 (35:54):
And I was just like I am a lukewarm Christian,
like I can't say that I'm not.
Speaker 4 (35:59):
And I'm watching these different influencers growing in their faith,
and I was like, you know, I want that kind
of faith, Like I don't want to be on social
media doing it, but I want that in my own
personal life.
Speaker 3 (36:11):
And so I just started praying.
Speaker 4 (36:13):
I was like, God, I don't know how this looks,
I don't know how this works, but I know I'm
reading these verses and I know that I'm seeing these
examples and I want to live that kind of life.
I want a fire in me for you, because it
was like that in the very beginning, but you know,
through ten years, it all just kind of dwindled and settled.
And as I started praying that, God really put a
(36:34):
weight on my heart for some of my family members
that are still actively LDS and I was just like,
I was like crying like every night over it. And
I'm just like, God, like, you freed me from that religion.
You freed me from being weighed down by all of
the rules and all of the things.
Speaker 3 (36:54):
And then the sin that's attached to there's such an
idol of self.
Speaker 4 (36:57):
There's the sin of pride is so prevalent as a
member of the LDS church that's trying to follow the doctrine.
And I was like, you freed me from all of that.
I want them to be free from it too. And
one day God was like, I want you to start
a TikTok and start sharing your faith in your journey.
And I was like, I can do that because my
family's not on there, and again, like I'm scared to
(37:18):
lose relationship with them if I start like getting too bold,
And I was like, okay, no, none of my family's
on TikTok, so I can do TikTok and short videos.
Speaker 3 (37:28):
And but for me, I'm a nerd. I love research.
I love to study. I would spend my entire life
in school if I could.
Speaker 4 (37:35):
And so I start doing my research and trying to
like figure plan out these tiktoks I'm going to do.
And then I was like, God, this is too much
to put in a TikTok, and he goes, that's right,
because I want you to do a podcast, and I
was like, oh, okay, and so this is over like months,
and then I mean he led me to the place
that I'm recording.
Speaker 3 (37:55):
He put everything in life. When I met the guy
that is.
Speaker 4 (37:59):
My production manager who I'm recording at his coffee shop,
he was asking me all these questions. He was like,
when do you want to start recording? What kind of
content are you going to be putting out? Like all
this stuff? And I was like, honestly, I don't know.
I'm just trying to be obedient to what God's telling
me to do right now. And for some reason, I'm
supposed to like talking to you about this before I
(38:19):
even know what's going on. And that was like December time.
I was like maybe one to six months. He's like,
that's a big gap. I was like, I know, but
I can't tell you one month and I can't tell.
Speaker 3 (38:29):
You six months. I don't know when I'm going to start.
Speaker 4 (38:31):
And I was starting within I started recording a month later,
and God just like gave me about four seasons worth
of episodes.
Speaker 3 (38:39):
Like one day. I was just like it was just
coming to me, and I just wrote it.
Speaker 4 (38:41):
All down and then God was like, hey, April first,
that'll be a release date and I was like okay.
And even the name I had I'm a hairstylist, and
so the pink hair started just for fun and it
was like super super pastel and I was like, I
think I'm ready to go back to Bloe.
Speaker 3 (39:00):
This is a lot of maintenance.
Speaker 4 (39:01):
And there was one day God was like, no, you're
gonna go pinker and I was like, that's a weird revelation.
Speaker 3 (39:07):
I don't think that was really from God.
Speaker 4 (39:10):
And then about ten minutes later, because I was like
trying to think, what would I name my podcast when
I start a podcast, and it was then all of
a sudden, he was like the pink Apostle and I
was like, don't like that. That sounds really controversial. I
don't want confrontation with anybody. And I was like, but
he just kept putting this name in my mind, and
(39:30):
I was like, hey, well, let me look up what
apostle means, like the original Greek word. And I'm like
a nerd for the original Greek when I'm reading my Bible,
like I have my logos app so I can look
up all the original words and get all the original meanings.
And the apostle comes from apostolos, which it just means
a messenger. And when I read that, God said I'm
(39:51):
sending you as a messenger to speak to the people
that I've chosen, and I was like, okay, Like I'll
just keep praying and fast. It took me about three
months to finally get on the same level as God
and except that.
Speaker 3 (40:05):
That was the name that I was going to use.
Speaker 4 (40:08):
And but for even from there, it's just like everything
that I've done has been an idea that He's planted
in me.
Speaker 3 (40:15):
Because I would not have done a video podcast.
Speaker 4 (40:18):
I was like, I would be audio at my house
and He's like, nope, you're doing video at a coffee shop.
And I was like, I don't want to spend that money,
and he's like, well, I'm going to give you that money,
and that's what you're going to spend it on.
Speaker 3 (40:27):
And I mean that's just what it's been.
Speaker 4 (40:30):
It's literally been every day he gives me an idea
for something and I'm like, let me see why I
can do with that idea, and it turns into something amazing.
And so I'm I have like four seasons planned out.
I have these ideas to do Bible studies. I don't
(40:50):
know if that's going to be in person or on
It'll probably end up being online to reach more people.
I've had book ideas get popped in my head that
I haven't even like really looked at. So I'm just
I'm literally just gonna go until God says that's enough.
Speaker 2 (41:05):
Nice.
Speaker 1 (41:05):
Well, I hope that you. My hope for you and
for any is just longevity. Like I think that would
be awesome to have you put out content forever because
I think that there there's a ton of passion there
and you know you you, and it's evident in the
videos that I've watched of yours. So I think that
(41:26):
that's that's really good. What And I know that you're
early in this, but for me, the fruits of like
podcasting were not what I expected. You know, I didn't
expect myself to ever be healed, you know, I didn't
have that expectation. I always thought I would be a
(41:47):
very jaded ex Morman you know, who is just jaded.
But I think that healing is is like the fruit
of this podcast that I do is I just feel
like soon good about everything. Like I don't feel angry,
I don't feel upset. I just feel like just kind
(42:07):
of is what it is. I've accepted it and I
moved on and I'm just walking with Jesus only.
Speaker 2 (42:15):
Like early, like in your whole.
Speaker 1 (42:17):
Podcasting, like what fruits have you seen from you know,
just like starting it and going, I mean, what fruits
have you seen so far?
Speaker 3 (42:29):
Well?
Speaker 4 (42:29):
It's I mean the main thing, which is what I
mainly want, is just a deeper relationship with God. Because
when he calls me to do something and then I'm
obedient to it, I grow more familiar with him, more
familiar with his word, I hear from him more, and
so it's just as I'm walking with him, I'm growing
closer to him and I'm recognizing him in more areas
(42:50):
of my life that I wasn't as aware of him in,
and so I would I would say, it's just like
all the fruits of the spirit, Like it's I just
hear him so much more clearly as I'm being obedient
to Him, and I'm like, there's days where I'm like,
I think I heard him say this, so let's just
go with it and then it turns into something beautiful
or I'll Prayer used to be something I really struggled with,
(43:14):
especially as a member of the LDS Church, because the
LDS Church puts so much emphasis on feelings that burning
in the bosom, like that could come from anything, and
so when I would used to pray, I didn't feel
like I got something from that. I never felt closer
to God from that. But over this last years, I've
really learned what it means to fully surrender to God
(43:35):
and to just be obedient and just to trust that
if I am hearing from God and I'm obedient, then
I'm going to be blessed from that, and usually the
blessing is a deeper relationship with Him. And if I
didn't hear from him, and that was a crazy random
thought that pops in my head.
Speaker 3 (43:50):
Well then there's grace for that. It's not going to
go anywhere, and that's fine.
Speaker 4 (43:54):
So just deeper relationship with God, which is what I
think we all have that desire in our hearts or
and that's how you gain it is by listening and
being obedient, surrendering to him.
Speaker 1 (44:06):
Yeah, yeah, I think that's a that's a really good point,
just that that relationship and communion with God.
Speaker 2 (44:16):
I mean, I yeah, I would.
Speaker 1 (44:20):
I would totally agree with you that sharing your faith
in you know, a beautiful and authentic way just strengthens
and deepens that that relationship that you have with God.
What does what does faith look like for you now?
Like I I look at my own life. My life
(44:40):
is amazing and beautiful and it is all grace because
I am a big idiot most of my life. I
just live this most like beautiful, beautiful wife, I have
beautiful kids, I have salvation, I like have the most
beautiful life. What what does it look like for you
as a Christian outside of more you've walked away from,
(45:02):
you know, the covenants that you've made in the in
the Mormon Church, Like, what does your life look like now?
Speaker 3 (45:10):
It's just all about Jesus. Some days I'm like, am
I like super obsessed? Like I'm like really obsessed. I'm like,
is this weird?
Speaker 4 (45:20):
But then I'm just like no, Like, look at how
beautiful my life is. I mean, I just even in
the last year of walking through what it really means
to partner with God has like I.
Speaker 3 (45:33):
Don't stress about anything anymore. Like every time that I'm like.
Speaker 4 (45:39):
For having a rough month financially, I'm just like, I mean,
God always works it out. It always works out as
long as we're seeking first the Kingdom of God, he
makes everything else work out. And I've seen that time
and time again in every single area of my life,
and every time that I take a chance on Him,
and I'm like, I'm going to trust you with this
and surrender it to you.
Speaker 3 (46:01):
Like not even that it's.
Speaker 4 (46:04):
A tangible effect that comes from that, but like within me,
I'm like, wow, Like I had more patience with my
daughter today and yesterday I was screaming my head off
at her, and like, how did that not happen today?
And so it's little things like that where I'm like
I'm seeing myself transform and I'm like I have no
answer for how this happened, and so every day it's
(46:26):
something like that. And that's to me, that's what it
really means to be living by faith is to just
really trust that God is who he says he is
in the Bible, and I don't have to try to
control anything. I don't have to try to be anything,
because even the good works that I do, they're not me,
Like I don't I'm not doing any of that. Like,
that's the Holy Spirit living through me. And the more
(46:47):
that I surrender to that and just rest in my
faith in trusting who God is, the more that He
lives through me and like pushes different behavior out of
me that I'm like, I didn't even know that I
can do that.
Speaker 2 (47:01):
Yeah, yeah, it's beautiful. I mean it's beautiful to walk.
Speaker 1 (47:05):
With with Jesus, you know can do I was when
I was listening to you on the other podcast. It
was so beautiful. At the end of that podcast, you
prayed and I was just like this, like you like
it was like so anointed. Like I don't know if
(47:27):
you you know use that terminology.
Speaker 4 (47:30):
Yes, okay, I did. My pastor anointed me for the podcast.
The first day came out. He made sure to pray
over my husband and I and anoint us.
Speaker 1 (47:41):
And oh well that's cool, Like yeah, that's really good.
So but it was just so anointed. I was like, man,
this is like just like a woman of God preaching
the gospel with a background that is similar, you know
to mine.
Speaker 2 (47:59):
And I was.
Speaker 1 (48:00):
I was, honestly, I was so moved by it. Like
I as I sat there, I remember exactly where I was.
I was in my kitchen and I was listening to
you pray and I thought like, oh wow, this is
like like just that one prayer is something that can
change people, and that can move people like someone who
(48:21):
has the spirit of God within them, and that that
is anointed by God can can change people. And so
I was so literally I listened to that podcast and
I text you and I said, hey, can I can.
I I was like so motivated to have you on
(48:42):
because I just thought it was just such a such
a such a beautiful thing. And so with that, every
guest that I have on, I let them get in
the last word because I talk way too much. So
what if there is one thing that you would love
to say to the Mormon community or the ex Mormon community,
(49:06):
what would that be?
Speaker 3 (49:09):
Jesus is everything Jesus is.
Speaker 4 (49:12):
For those who are in the Mormon community, there is
this belief and I know because I've been studying it hard.
Like my episode coming out tomorrow's on the Planet of Salvation.
My episode the following week is going to be on
exaltation and just looking at those things, those are Jesus
(49:34):
is so diminished in the LDS church. He's diminished to
a level of he is opening a door for you
to walk through so that you can then go over
this obstacle course and achieve everything that you can achieve.
He gave you that opportunity. But what the Bible says
is that Jesus did the obstacle course for you. You
(49:56):
don't have to do anything but accept him and allow
him to love you. And when you surrender to him,
that's everything. Like you don't need to work, you don't
need to strive. That's the word I always hear in
the LDS community is we just have to strive to
be our best. We have to strive to be obedient,
we have to strive to follow the prophet. But Jesus
(50:18):
never told us to strive. He told us to come
to him and he will shoulder our burdens, and he
will give us rest. And when you really read the Bible,
and you'd read it for what it is apart from
LDS doctrine, it's that Jesus there is so much sweeter
and so much more gentle and so kind and so
(50:38):
loving and so accepting, and he wants you to rest
in him. And it really is simple. You don't have
to jump through all these hoops. There's not all these
different levels of the kingdoms to get into. After it's
heaven and hell. There's two options, and Jesus is the
way to life. And when you can let go of
(51:01):
all those things, that is honestly the most freeing thing
that you will ever do.
Speaker 3 (51:06):
And then for.
Speaker 4 (51:07):
Those who are already out of the LDS community, I
live for ten years thinking like I did know Jesus,
but I wasn't walking with Jesus fully and I hadn't.
I think part of it was I didn't really truly heal,
and I don't know how I could have healed any sooner.
(51:27):
But don't let yourself fall into the lukewarm side of Christianity,
because when you do that, you're not going to see
the fruits of the spirit. Yes, you're saved, but you're
not going to live a life that is producing the
fruit of the spirit. You're not going to be walking
with God and growing closer to him if you're being lukewarm.
That requires complete surrender, that requires seeking, and those aren't
(51:52):
Those are just I don't want to say. It's like
you have to work to do those things. When you
really love Jesus and want him, God puts those desires
in your heart. So there's a scripture where God says,
I will give you the desires of your heart. But
part of that means that we need to be seeking
after God's heart. If we're seeking after God's heart, he
(52:14):
puts his desires into our heart, and that's where like
true love and joy and real life begins and life
with God is so exciting, like there's nothing boring about it.
And just seek, seek after God, and seek after Jesus
and pray for Him to revive your heart. And it's
(52:38):
going to happen, because that's a that's a prayer He
will always answer.
Speaker 2 (52:42):
That's right, preach it.
Speaker 1 (52:44):
I love that all right, And you know what, I
would love for my listeners to hear you pray if
that's if I'm not putting you on the spot too much.
Speaker 2 (52:54):
If you're cool with that, If you are, I just let.
Speaker 3 (52:57):
The Holy Spirit tell me what I need to say
in the moment.
Speaker 2 (53:00):
So I'm good. We're good, all right.
Speaker 1 (53:03):
So yeah, if you would, if you would close us
out in prayer, and then I'll I'll talk.
Speaker 2 (53:07):
Them, we'll finish it up.
Speaker 3 (53:08):
Perfect.
Speaker 4 (53:10):
Father, God, we just come before you so humbly. We
just love you so much and we're so grateful for
this opportunity that you've that you've orchestrated. You've brought this
all together. You put us in the same Facebook group.
You had me on this other guy, Patrick's podcast, one
hundred Fold Testimony. You had him reach out to me
to make that happen, and then you had Ky listen
(53:30):
to that podcast. So got everything that has happened, from
my podcast to Kai's podcast, to us coming.
Speaker 3 (53:35):
Out of Mormonism. Everything from the very beginning.
Speaker 4 (53:38):
You knew that it was going to happen, because you
know the path that you have for us. You've walked
us through it all, Father, and I know that you're
speaking to both of us. You've brought us exactly to
this moment. And because I know that you've done that, Father,
I know that you have specific people that this podcast
is going to reach. You have specific people that you've
been preparing to hear this message for their entire lives.
(54:01):
You've gotten them ready, You've primed their ears, Father, You've
gotten the soil of their hearts ready. And Father, I
just pray that the seeds that are planted today that
they fall on the fertile soil that you talk about
in Matthew. I pray that there will be a hedge
of protection around each seed that's planted, so that the enemy.
Speaker 3 (54:20):
Cannot snatch it away, just like you said, Father.
Speaker 4 (54:23):
And I pray that those who are still within the
LDS Church. Father, I pray that they will have a
desire placed in their hearts by you.
Speaker 3 (54:33):
I pray that you.
Speaker 4 (54:34):
Will fill them with such a strong desire that they
cannot ignore it. Father, and I pray that they will
be given discernment and that you will put a protection
around every truth that's in them and show them where
things don't line up with what you have for them. Father,
I know that there's so many that you have chosen
within the LDS Church, and there's so many who truly
(54:55):
love you, and they're lacking discernment and they are lacking
not and you say that your people will perish for
a lack of knowledge. So I just pray that you
will open eyes, you will remove the shield that is
blocking people from understanding, Father, and I pray that you
will just bring a revival, bring that revival to the
LDS Church and help them come away and become biblical Christians. Father,
(55:19):
those who have left and have become agnostic, I pray
that you will put a fire in their hearts to know,
try and figure out what's missing, because that's you, Father,
You are missing from everyone who has not experienced you
fully as their God, the one who has sent Jesus
to save them, who has sence the Holy Spirit to
(55:39):
fill them, to guide them and to lead them in
the way that they should go, and to teach them. Father,
we just thank you so much. We're going to thank
you right now, Father, for every single person that you
are saving, for every single person who you are going
to speak truth to with this podcast. I know that
they're out there because that's why we're here, and I
know that you will use it to further your kingdom.
(56:01):
And that's what our desire is, Father, that we can
teach your words, the way that you have for us
to teach, and we know that you have a specific
mission for both of us. And Lord, I just want
to speak, especially over Kai in this moment, that you
will continue to lead him and direct his steps, that
you will give him personal revelation and exactly how you
have for him to continue with this podcast, and that
(56:23):
he will be given the exact words that you have
for him to speak.
Speaker 3 (56:28):
And I just pray all this in Jesus. Amen.
Speaker 1 (56:32):
Amen, beautiful Katie, thank you the Pink Apostle. You guys
get on there. I just I think it's beautiful. Like
I think that I do believe that prayer changes everything.
I appreciate you praying over me. I mean, we we're
brothers and sisters in Christ. We're part of the body
(56:54):
of Christ.
Speaker 2 (56:57):
Gosh. I pray for Revible too. Pray for Revival.
Speaker 3 (57:02):
Seventeen million, seventeen million ethers and sisters.
Speaker 1 (57:07):
I know, I've I'll just share this because I feel
like I say it sometimes tongue in cheek, even though
I believe it. I've had so many dreams in my
life about this. Since leaving Mormonism and getting saved. I
(57:29):
had a dream where there were sister missionaries, tags on everything,
just raising their hands in worship, in full surrender and
giving their lives over to Jesus. I had a lady
come to be a church over here, put her hands
on me, and I said, She says, what do you
want me to pray for?
Speaker 2 (57:49):
I said, I just want to pray that my.
Speaker 1 (57:54):
I just want to pray that I'm able to leave
Mormonism completely in the past and behind I was writing
about garments. I was just journaling down about garments. And
she says, I pray that every Mormon will take off
their She I didn't bring this up to her. She said,
I pray every Mormon will take off their garments, leave
(58:14):
and just follow the one True Jesus. And I'm like,
oh my gosh, I was just talking about this yesterday.
And I just believe, like I honestly believe that that
is what needs to happen in the Mormon Church, is
that people there needs to be this revival. I look
at how apathetic even people were who went who I
(58:34):
went to church with, and it's because they don't they
haven't had this same experience that you and I are
talking about, right, I mean, just for being real, like.
Speaker 2 (58:45):
We've experienced these things that it's like, that is God,
that is Jesus, that's the Jesus. Like I've had these
deep intimate relationship with him. You're getting me all a mess.
Speaker 4 (59:00):
So now I love that you brought up that you
had dreams and something that over the last year, one
of the things that I started to become more aware
of is that dreams is the way that God speaks
to people.
Speaker 3 (59:12):
These days.
Speaker 4 (59:13):
I was always like, oh, yeah, he talked to Daniel
like that, he talked to Joseph like that, and I.
Speaker 3 (59:17):
Became like I heard somebody that came.
Speaker 4 (59:19):
Somebody I followed wrote a book about dreams, and I
was like, so I listened to it, and I was
just like, God, I really want to hear you in
my dreams. I've never really felt that. And it's wild
because he gave he brought to my memory dreams I
had as a child, like dreams that I had over
and over and over again, and he was like, those
are prophetic dreams for where you're at right now. And
(59:40):
over the last year, I've increasingly had more dreams and
we're all wake up and God's like, remember that one
and pray about it and it's like it's been wild
how he's and each dream that I take and I steward, well,
I tell the right people. I am seeking the right interpretation,
like there's a way to do it, in a way
(01:00:01):
not to do it, and God will teach you how
to do it if you if you get to that point.
But it's it's really cool how as I'm like, I
want dreams from you and God will give me dreams.
Speaker 3 (01:00:10):
And I'm like, well, I want this spiritual gift.
Speaker 4 (01:00:12):
And God's like, you need to forgive this person if
you want that gift because your unforgiveness is blocking you
for receiving. And I'm like, okay, then I'll go do
that forgiveness. And I'm like I thought i'd forgiven that person,
but I guess not. I guess we have to have
a conversation that I've been avoiding, and I go and
have that conversation and my life was completely changed after that.
So it's just like it's life changing, transformational moment over
(01:00:34):
and over and over and over. And God wants to
have those experiences with you. Like God's not a God
that says just have faith in me until the end.
Like God will build on every experience and increase your
faith like every single day, if that's what you're asking for.
Speaker 1 (01:00:53):
Yeah, yeah, well, he says, drawn near to me, and
I will draw near to you, right, so like we yeah,
and that's really what I've experienced, you know, throughout my
I've been saved three years now, and I've experienced that
just like over and over and over again, like just
an outpouring of the spirit. Okay, well, I told you
(01:01:14):
to be an hour and we're over that. I really
appreciate you being on my podcast and just sharing your
beliefs and praying for me, praying for our people, really Mormons,
and yeah, I love you guys, everybody on here who's listening,
and uh yeah until next time.
Speaker 3 (01:01:35):
Yeah, thanks for having me on. It was nice to
talk to you all.
Speaker 2 (01:01:38):
Yeah,
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