Ep 11: Sam Weitz - Sanctuary Cities from a Homeland Security Perspective

This week on Justice Then, Justice Now, we are honored to welcome Sam Weitz, who's journey from Atlantic City to becoming a federal agent is nothing short of inspiring. From a pivotal connection with a local mayor that kickstarted his career at just 20 years old to navigating complex state laws and networking, Sam's story is informative and entertaining.

As Sam reminisces about his career, he shares eye-opening experiences and challenges faced in federal law enforcement. Sam opens up about specific cases, including the tragic fallout from a sergeant's unfit leadership, offering candid reflections on the political landscapes within federal agencies and how professionalism and respect are vital for maintaining morale and mission success.

We also tackle the heated topic of sanctuary city policies, particularly in Seattle and King County. Sam shares his firsthand experiences and frustrations with illegal immigration enforcement under these local policies. From significant drug busts to powerful personal stories about immigration's impact on law enforcement, this episode provides an unfiltered look at policy, accountability, and their broader implications. Join us for an episode rich with insights, emotional highs and lows, and a veteran's unwavering commitment to justice.

Produced by: Citrustream, LLC

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome everybody to the Justice Then, justice Now
podcast where we talk everythingcriminal justice system, the
entire spectrum.
On today's show we have SamWhite.
How are you doing, sam?

Speaker 2 (00:11):
Very good sir.
Thank you for the invitation.

Speaker 1 (00:14):
Thank you for joining us.
My name is Jeff Thomas and themain man is Toby Roche on the
Just the Thin, just is Nowpodcast.
I'm just helping out, but I'mgoing to do my best, as the
curious dummy of the crew, tomaybe try to translate some of
the jargon you guys might betalking for our lay listeners.

(00:35):
But first of all, sam, whereare you from?
How did you grow up?
Where are you from and what wasyour family like?

Speaker 2 (00:43):
Well, originally from Atlantic City, New Jersey, and
born and raised there andbasically stayed there until my
federal law enforcement careerstarted.
Prior to that, though, I becamea police officer in the state
of New Jersey.
First city was Seattle City,which was in Cape May County,

(01:07):
small community, oceanfront, andthen I moved on to Margate City
, new Jersey, for approximatelyfive years six years, before I
finally got to be a federalagent that I've always strived
to be.

Speaker 1 (01:24):
So did you grow up always wanting to be a police
officer, or was it something?

Speaker 2 (01:28):
that you learned late and then from there, the
federal agent.
Always, always, in fact.
I never would go out Halloween.
I would never try not to get introuble.
I've always wanted to be apolice officer.
I remember in high schoolpeople were asking me what I

(01:50):
want to be.
I said a police officer.
And my friends oh, you need togo into business, you're not
going to make any money as apolice officer, you're not going
to make any money.
I wasn't interested in makingmoney, I was interested in being
a police officer.
In fact, my first job policeofficer job in Seattle City paid
$7,200 a year and back thenthat was big money for me anyway

(02:17):
.
And it's an interesting storythat I should address just quick
, that I should address justquick how I became a police
officer.
The state of New Jersey droppedthe age limit to 18.
And I applied.
I was 19, going on 20.
And I took the civil servicetest.

(02:40):
I got appointed or I gotselected past the test for
Camden, trenton, new Jersey,east Orange.
I remember this like it wasyesterday, west New York, and
I'm going for interviews becauseI scored high in the test.
I'm going for interviews andthey keep telling me I'm too
young, you have to be 21.

(03:00):
I'm like what do you mean?
You have to be 21?
I took the civil service test.
It was 18 and above.
In order to carry a firearm,you have to be 21.
I'm like what do you mean?
You have to be 21?
I took the civil service test.
It was 18 and above.
In order to carry a firearm,you have to be 21.
So I keep getting turned down bythese cities and I finally
sought legal advice and we wereready to go into superior court
because I kept getting turneddown jobs and I was getting very

(03:24):
, very disgusted.
So one day I'm talking to myfather in front of my house, the
people across the street comeover.
Hey, sam, how you doing?
Haven't seen you.
I said well, I'm not reallydoing that good.
To be honest, I'm trying tobecome a police officer and I
was in community college at thetime for law enforcement.
I said every city I go toNewark, camden West, new York,

(03:48):
trenton I mean not golden spotsfor someone to become a police
officer.
So I said I've got an interviewMonday.
I'll never forget that I got aninterview Monday in a small
city called Seattle City in CapeMay County.
Right away the wife says, weknow the mayor there.

(04:10):
And I'm like, yeah, ok,everybody knows somebody.
So I said, well, she goes, letme make a phone call.
When's your interview?
I said it's Monday.
I said, but my problem is I'mtoo young.
I have a lawyer, we're fighting.
She goes.
Well, let me call the mayor.
Thank you very much.
I go for my interview.
I meet the chief First thingout of his mouth I've heard so

(04:32):
much about you, sam, when canyou start?
I said well, wait a second.
You know I'm only 20 years old.
I just turned 20.
Because, sam, you come highlyrecommended.
So that's when I learned, nomatter how much education you
have, no matter how muchexperience you have, it's always
good to know somebody thatknows somebody.

(04:53):
And I became a police officerand that's how I first started
at age 20 in Seattle City, newJersey.
But they, they put me throughthe mill and then I left.
Like I said, I went to MargateCity and I was there about six
years and that's right outsideof Atlantic City.

(05:14):
And the reason I left SeattleCity was because I was going
into a four year college and itwas closer for me to commute
back and forth at night while Iwas working.

Speaker 1 (05:25):
Very cool.
Someone told me once it's notwho you know, it's who knows you
, and I think that was theperfect example of that.

Speaker 2 (05:38):
Well, that was a perfect example of that.
And then again I went toBargate City.
Can I ask a?

Speaker 3 (05:45):
question Sam.
And it's a technical thing forus.
I also was hired at 20.
Okay, and how did it?
Was 21 to carry a firearm, orhad they reduced that to 18 as
the department?
What was your argument with thechief?

Speaker 2 (06:06):
okay, well, all the the other police departments I
mentioned the larger cities.
Uh, as soon as I went in, theytold me I was too young and that
was federal.
Uh, toby, as you probably know,that was a federal law.
In order to carry a firearmback then you had to be 21, but
new jersey, in particular,allowed 18 year olds to become

(06:31):
police officers.
So you were, you were called ina catch-22, you know?
Uh, sure, I passed the civilservice test, I met all the
requirements, but unfortunatelyyou're too young.
Seattle City cared less.
He didn't care if I was 18, 19,20.
He hired me and the rest ishistory.

(06:54):
And then I went to Margate andI started to learn a lot about
law enforcement, the criminaljustice system.
Just briefly, and I won't gointo it.
Years go by and they appointone officer as a sergeant and

(07:16):
myself and just about the entiredepartment went into the chief
and we told him that he'sdangerous.
I mean for, as you know, toby,for a police officer to step up
about another police officer'spersonality or work habits, uh,

(07:39):
it takes a lot because you'regoing against the brother, but
we all felt that, in the bestinterest of safety to all,
because of his attitude, becauseof his behavior, if you make
him a sergeant and again, Iremember this, some things as
you, toby, you remember the restof your life we went in, we

(08:02):
said, chief, he's going to killsomebody or kill himself.
And the chief at that time saidhe's going to be your sergeant,
you respect him and you obeyhim.
Okay, chief, I worked the 4 to12 shift on a Saturday night.
It was in November of 1975.

(08:23):
I went off work at a quarter to12.
I got a phone call at 4 am.
This individual who madesergeant just started his first
shift at midnight on Sundaymorning in November it was his
first shift.
I got to be honest, I didn'teven congratulate him.

(08:47):
He came in, we got briefed onwhat happened on our shift and I
left Four o'clock in themorning.
I got a phone call.
You're not going to believe this.
What he's dead, what he waschasing a motorcycle and I don't

(09:08):
know if you can see this photo.
I'll try to.
Ok, that was the result of himchasing a motorcycle.
He was driving, crashed into atree and killed himself.
He was only a sergeant for fourhours.

(09:29):
Luckily, his partner broken hip, broken leg, but he survived.
And that was probably theeye-opening and beginning of me
realizing that you can only doso much.
And uh, as a result, he wasdead four hours after they put

(09:52):
the stripes on him I just justwanted to ask pretty devastating
um what happened to go ahead no, I'm just going to say that,
and this will lead me into someother things that I'd like to
discuss if I had the time I getinto the office.

(10:15):
I was working at 8 am onSaturdays.
We double backed.
If you work 4 to 12, you comeback 8 o'clock in the morning,
so I come in.
I guess it was like 6 o'clockin the morning so I come in.
I guess it was like 6 o'clockin the morning and everybody's
were kind of shocked, you know,uh, sad, and the chief's there
and uh, the chief, god bless himwas very religious and went to

(10:39):
church every Sunday and part ofthat was had to do church that
the chief wanted.
That's what the chief got onSunday mornings.
So it's about 8.15.
The poor officer just was killedfour hours ago and I'm standing

(11:01):
around, you know which is, wehave our heads down and the
chief goes to me.
Sam, it's 830.
I said, yes, sir, he goes, wegot to continue on.
You got church traffic.
I'm like, chief, the officer'snot even deceased four hours and
you're worried about churchtraffic, sam, we have to.

(11:22):
Life has to go on Anyway.
So that's one of my experiencesand I just but I, you know, I
took that as a learningexperience and I'll get to that
again if we have time.
The death of a police officeryou know it's tragic as we see

(11:51):
on TV, it's horrific as we seeon TV and the next day or maybe
the next hour.

Speaker 3 (11:58):
Life goes on and that's what one of the issues

(12:20):
I've had later on in my careerwith the feds that got me
extremely discouraged to the tothe point where I realized that
I in management just couldn't doit anymore.
Yeah, that's very traumatic.

Speaker 2 (12:37):
I mean it's the ultimate sacrifice.

Speaker 3 (12:38):
My question was they did apprehend the motorcycle
operator and he was fullyprosecuted, right?

Speaker 2 (12:41):
Yes, Okay, that's some justice on that for sure.
So so, uh, as a police officer,I learned a lot, and let me
just backtrack real quick, Uh,cause I took this with me
throughout my police career andmy federal law enforcement
career of over 26 years.
Uh, there was a Sergeant in thepolice academy Can I mention

(13:02):
his name?
He's deceased Very, very nicegentleman, Six foot five, six
foot six, about 250 pounds.
His name was Bob Clifton.
I'll never forget.
So he was in charge of thepolice academy and the very
first step within a couple hours, he stood up in front of the

(13:24):
room and he made a speech thatagain I'll remember that half of
the officers in the room,Within 20 years we'll never see
their retirement.
They're either going to quit orthey're going to get killed.
I mean, he, he let us, he letus in.

(13:44):
He gave us the straight scoopand he said the other half.
You're going to get by.
You're probably going to end upin divorce.
He goes.
I don't know why any of youguys want to pursue this career,
but let me tell you something,what I'm about to teach you here
you better listen and youbetter learn, or you're going to

(14:06):
be dead.
And he went on to say and thisgoes back to the story, uh, with
the police officer that thesergeant that was killed.
He went on to say that if andwhen god forbid you get killed
in the line of duty, everybody'sgoing to be upset.

(14:27):
They're going to put the blacklittle band on their badge.
The mayor is going to give alittle speech about what a great
guy you were.
The chief of police is going togive a little speech about a
great guy you were.
They're going to fold up a flag.
The mayor might order the flagsbe lowered for your city and

(14:49):
the next day you're going to beforgotten about.
And that sounds harsh, but it'sthe reality Because again,
we'll get to it.
In my federal career, after Iretired, I started doing public
speaking and I had all thestatistics on the police

(15:11):
officers killed, wounded byillegal aliens.
It's all public information.
A couple of weeks ago, anotherpolice officer was killed.
In another part of the country.
A month prior, a police officerwas killed.
And what has been done about it?

(15:31):
Absolutely nothing.
And again, that gets to the endof my career.
When I just realized, as far asI was concerned as an assistant
special agent in charge withHomeland Security, the mission
for me was sadly over.

Speaker 1 (15:51):
Sam, I got a question , kind of backtracking a little
bit, when you were talking abouthow you went to your superiors
and said look, there's troubleon the horizon for the sergeant.
Was it like personality traits?
Was it like not enough training?
Like what gave you thatindication?
Was it something that couldhave been taught that would have

(16:12):
prevented you know him fromtragically, you know, dying so
soon or, you know, are somepeople cut out for it and some
people just not Like what areyour thoughts on that?

Speaker 2 (16:23):
You kind of hit it.
Number one I he was not cut outfor it.
Toby, you and I, we discussedthis we worked with agents that
just were not cut out for itWhether one agent had a very
nervous condition.

(16:43):
He just got very, very nervous.

Speaker 3 (16:47):
He froze.

Speaker 2 (16:48):
Management realized that he froze Sam on the street.
He froze on surveillance,literally with drugs and moved
god and I will say that not onlydid agents recognize it, but
management recognized it.
So they put him in the officeand he did office work and, uh,
that's fine.

(17:08):
I I mean, look, not everybodyis cut out for to be put in
positions of life and death andstress, as Toby can account.
Many days there is no threat ofdeath, there is no stress, but
when there is, there is is there?

(17:38):
is I mean, when you're dealingwith three, four, five, six tons
of cocaine, when you're dealingwith millions and millions of
dollars, when you're dealingwith people on the street that
you're arresting, that everyoneback in the 80s, as Toby can
tell you, carried a firearm.
It's a lot of stress.
So, to answer your question, inhis particular case, our view
was his attitude was horrifictowards citizens.

(18:01):
He had a badge and you do whatI tell you to do or I'm going to
kick your ass.
That was his attitude.
You cannot disagree with him.
Even when he was a policeofficer, there'd be
confrontations on arrestingindividuals, how to arrest them,

(18:21):
the mannerism when you arrestsomeone.
I can tell you and again, tobycan personally I treated and I
hate to use the word, but I willevery scumbag with as much
respect as I would want inreturn, until they didn't show
me the respect.
I can be the meanest SOB, but Itried to be the most

(18:46):
professional and I got to sayI've been very fortunate in my
federal career as well as police, that I never shot anyone.
I don't have all these storiesabout shootouts.
I never had that problem.
I always respect people.

(19:08):
To go back to the sergeant, hedid not respect people, he was
arrogant and I hate to say that.
He was obnoxious, I hate to saythat.
And he was brutal.
And when you give someone evenmore power, you don't have to be
a psychologist to know that's.
You're adding fuel to the fire.

Speaker 3 (19:46):
Four hours later he was gone not the public view
with him, but with the, with theofficers that he'd have to make
a split second decisioninvolving safety or whatever
you're doing, and he hesitatedor he went overly aggressive to
the right, which caused dangerfor you guys.

Speaker 2 (20:08):
Overly, overly aggressive you nailed it, toby.
I'm sure in your career you'vemet people like that and
extremely, overly aggressive.
I don't want to go into greatdetail, but officers saw him in
action.
We brought it to the attentionof the chief.

(20:29):
The chief basically shruggedhis shoulders and said he's
going to be the sergeant andthat's the end of it.
So that was the end of it.
Sad Four hours later gone.

Speaker 1 (20:44):
So this type of kind of negligence with management?
It seems like you were kind ofhinting at that.
That was something you had todeal with your entire career,
would you say it's?
It's more or less the higheryou go up into like federal
agencies and stuff, or is itjust like the same but different
?

Speaker 2 (21:04):
I can talk from experience because my career I
started out and I don't playpolitics, I never have, I never
will, and I speak my mind andsometimes that's not good, but I
always kept true to myself.

(21:25):
It took me what?
19 years to get promoted.
And let me just backtrack.
I did the biggest cases andwe'll go through those.
I'm not patting myself on theback, but Toby knows because we
both work together.
I had big, big internationaldrug money laundering cases.

(21:50):
I was selected for internalaffairs, which is another story.
With the US Customs Service Ifought that big time trying to
get out of going to internalaffairs.
I got my master's degree incriminal justice.
I went to headquarters for athree-year tour and I basically

(22:14):
what we called it punched myticket.
The reason I punched my ticketwas because, like everyone else,
you hope to go into management.
So I got my master's degree, Iwent to IA, I went to
headquarters.
I come out of headquarters or,I'm sorry, I come out of
internal affairs.
After serving three years Istart applying for positions.

(22:49):
Nope, I don't get selected andagain, as Toby can tell you,
because we were side individualsthat, for whatever reason,
really didn't like me.

Speaker 1 (23:00):
But it is what it is.

Speaker 3 (23:01):
They were envious.

Speaker 2 (23:06):
They never done cases and never done cases.
Finally, I reached a pointwhere I said you know, I've got
all this in my background.
I've been an excellent agent.
It's time to fight this.
So again, here we go.
I seek out legal opinion andthere's an announcement that
comes out for Kalispell Montana.

(23:28):
I don't know if you ever heardof Kalispell Montana, but they
were looking for a residentagent in charge.
So I'm saying to myself, who thehell is going to put in for
Kalispell Montana?
It's on the northwest border ofMontana.
And I'm saying to myself at thetime I'm going to put in for,

(23:53):
and when I don't get NorthwestMontana, I'm going to really
nail them to the wall.
Well, I put in for NorthwestMontana, I got promoted.
So now I'm telling my wife atthe time Unfortunately she

(24:15):
passed away at the time we'releaving Fort Lauderdale and
we're going to northwest Montana, kalispell.
Well, after I picked her up offthe floor, we moved out there
and I got promoted and I had togo, because here I am fighting
to get promoted.
The government can turn around.

(24:37):
Let's be honest and say, sam,we offered you calispell montana
and you turned it down.
So I had to go and I went.
So, toby, did you want to ask aquestion?
Yeah?

Speaker 3 (24:51):
Yeah, I know his wife , Karen, and she's a wonderful
woman and I went to the weddingand, Sam, you know, I said this
is the right person for you.
And to go from Fort Lauderdaleto Snow Country, I know I
wouldn't do it, you know I'moriginally from Mass, as you

(25:12):
know.
Do it, you know, I'm originallyfrom Mass, as you know, but I
have very good friends therefrom the police department, high
school and all that.
But to go back, no, andobviously Sam, Sam did the cases
.
He had to check whatlegitimately checked the boxes,
search warrants, arrests,investigations, search warrants,

(25:34):
arrests, investigations,international and all this.
And unfortunately, there's agroup of people that we worked
with.
I called them the ride-alongsin the book and what Pete Thrawn
put out was these areindividuals who didn't do the
work but when they put in theirpromotional papers for
experience they would put Sam'scase down or different things,

(25:56):
creating undercover operations,which doesn't happen with a lot
of agents, Like Title III'swiretaps.
I've never done one, but therewere people who worked on
wiretaps as surveillance orwhatever, and they said that
they originated the wiretap.
So, you know, Sam had to leave,he had for a promotion and I

(26:20):
had the same thing in my career,you know, and starting with the
Marshal Service.
So I hope that I've readsomething now that Homeland
Security is going to do morelocal promotions and internal
hiring at the we call thespecial agent in charge level.
So I think that may alleviatesomeone having to leave the

(26:44):
beaches of Fort Lauderdale andgo to Montana to get a promotion
.
Right, right, right, Okay.

Speaker 1 (26:52):
Right, so what was the day-to-day like up there in
Montana?
Are you like, you know, likewatching, like making sure, is
there like a border crossing upthere or something Like?
What was the?
What was it like?

Speaker 2 (27:07):
That's a very good question.
Yes, there's two bordercrossings that go into British
Columbia.
Good question.
Yes, there's two bordercrossings that go into British
Columbia and we were the first.
The FBI had an office, two-manoffice.
We were right down the hallfrom them.
In fact I built our office, theHomeland Security Office.

(27:28):
I didn't build it, I remodeledit.
It was in an office building.
I didn't move into it for sixmonths after I got to Montana,
but we were the first true lawenforcement federal agency that
was on the northwest Montanaborder, other than the FBI, who

(27:48):
only did investigations on theIndian reservations.
As you may or may not know, theFBI has that oversight of
investigations on federal Indianland and a lot of crime you may
or may not know, a lot of crimeon Indian reservations that the

(28:11):
FBI is very, very busy with.
And there were two agents.
So this is kind of ironic, butI take my skills that I learned
in Miami back in the 80s when Iwas with DEA.
And if I can, and then I'll getto your question, jeff.
And if I can, and then I'll getto your question, jeff, if I

(28:32):
can, I just want to give you areal quick oversight because I
was recognized in the SouthernDistrict of Florida, miami and
the entire Southern District,west Palm, fort Lauderdale, over
to the West Coast and I did acase in Baltimore.
I was recognized as an expertand I'm the last one to toot my

(28:57):
horn.
But I just want to give you aquick overview that I know what
I'm talking about.
In fact I have to document,when I was doing public speaking
, everything I say because somepeople just he's not, he's just
exaggerating.
I don't exaggerate, I have noreason to exaggerate.
So I took the skills that Ilearned from Miami drug

(29:20):
enforcement to Montana.
Sounds crazy, but Just a littlebackground, real.
I Graduated DEA basic Academyin 1983.
1985, january I had five and ahalf tons of marijuana seizure I

(29:41):
investigated successfully.
Easter Sunday of 1985, I had 18, I'm sorry 800 pounds of
cocaine.
April 3rd 1985, I had 32 poundsof pure cocaine seized.
April 19th 1985, 5,100 poundsof marijuana.

(30:04):
I seized August 31st 1985,1,000 pounds of cocaine.
Pounds of cocaine.
September 16th 1985, 440 poundsof cocaine.

(30:27):
That's a case I did in SantaDomingo which I can talk for
hours on that case January 24.
November 6, 1997, 3,700 poundsof cocaine.
That we did a controlleddelivery.
That means we watched it.
We followed the 18 wheelersgoing to New York and I'm pretty

(30:51):
good doing investigations, asToby also is excellent and his
career speaks for itself.
So I took that knowledge andskill that I learned from Miami
to Montana, and you're probablysaying as well as the viewers

(31:14):
wait a second, he's in northwestMontana.
What the hell happens innorthwest Montana with cocaine
or marijuana?
So I get there and I was bymyself for the first maybe five,
six months, and then I was senttwo brand new agents from the
academy.
Don't ask me how they gotselected from Montana, but so
I'm driving around and there'sone house and Toby you can

(31:36):
relate to this in the middle ofnowhere in Montana, with 8-foot
10-foot cement walls around itwith cameras.
Are you picturing this, toby?
Yeah, and I want to hear aboutthe firearms inside, because
that's definitely something youencountered.

(31:57):
So with the private camerassurveillance system set up and
I'm looking, because they hadiron gates, all these fancy cars
I'm saying wait a second.
Okay, I might be in NorthwestMontanaana, but a doper is a
doper, I'm sorry.
A drug dealer is a drug dealer,you can say no matter whether

(32:20):
you're in miami or not doper,okay.
So, uh, I started doing somebackground investigations, just
generic who owns the house, howlong it's been there, what, what
the owner does for business,and he's a used car salesman.
He's a used car salesman and hebrings cars back and forth from

(32:43):
Canada, which you know.
I guess you can get a about theregistration process, but
anyway.
So I'm saying to myself, wait asecond, this guy, he's a used
car salesman, he lives like this.
So the investigation continues.

(33:04):
My two rookie agents come in, Itell them what I want done,
because I was the supervisor andI want to give them as much
experience and much training aspossible.
And to make a short story, longmiddle of the night I get a
phone call from one of the portsof entry that they apprehended,

(33:29):
discovered a tractor trailerwith cars coming into Kalispell,
montana, that was loaded withBC Bud, british Columbia Bud
marijuana.
Well, back then BC Bud was thenumber one primo marijuana that

(33:50):
people throughout the UnitedStates wants, chemo marijuana
that people throughout theunited states wants.
So I'm like, okay, so we go upto the port, interview the truck
driver.
Of course he knows nothing.
He knows nothing.
We do the background, lo andbehold, who do you think the
truck is registered to bingo theguy with the nice house.
So eventually, yes.

(34:12):
So eventually he flips.
We arrest this guy.
We seize his house as you know,toby under acid forfeiture,
anything related to drugs,transportation of storage,
purchased by drug money.
We seized it, we cleaned himout.
I believe he got seven yearsand as a result of that I then

(34:37):
got promoted because it was thelargest marijuana seizure in the
state of Montana at that timeand probably still is.
So I got offered a position inSeattle as the assistant special
agent in charge.
I had 50 agents, I had fivegroup supervisors and two

(34:59):
technicians that would dowiretaps and cameras, and I
thought I made my career.
I thought that I finally got tomanagement with Homeland
Security.
We now became Homeland Securityand I realized that that was

(35:21):
actually my downfall in myfederal law enforcement career.

Speaker 1 (35:29):
And how did you realize that?
What was?
Uh, how soon after you got thatpromotion did you realize it
wasn't what it seemed.

Speaker 2 (35:40):
I'm going to say probably within six months, I
realized that the politicsplayed more into federal law
enforcement than I ever thought.
Look, let's be honest with oneanother.
We know there's politics ineverything, but in law

(36:02):
enforcement and criminal justice, in my view, there is no room
for politics.
Once you put politics intocriminal justice or law
enforcement, whether it's local,whether it's county, whether
it's state or whether it'sfederal, it's not going to work.

(36:23):
And sure enough, homelandSecurity was loaded with
politics, especially again wasloaded with politics, especially
again, I'm in Washington state,I'm in Seattle and I have 50

(36:48):
federal agents and about 25 ofthose were assigned to
immigration, illegal immigration, and, uh, I can talk for hours,
I don't need to if anybodywatches the news every day.
We see what's going on at theborder, we see what's going on
with fentanyl, we see what'sgoing on with and I call them
might not be politically correctillegal aliens.

(37:09):
People that cross our borderillegally are illegal aliens.
There's a process, as everyoneknows if you want to become a
citizen, you go through.
But again, I don't need toexpel and expand on the current
status of our border.
Everyone reads it every singleday status of our border.

(37:37):
Everyone reads it every singleday, everyone reads the horrific
, horrific crimes committed byillegal aliens.
And that's when I first startedrealizing what sanctuary cities
, what sanctuary states are.
Because I'm in management, I'mresponsible for 25 or 30 agents
assigned to immigrationenforcement and they handcuffed

(38:00):
me, which means I had tohandcuff my agents, and it just
got progressively worse.
I had Congress people callingmy supervisor Again.
I was assistant special agentin charge, second in charge,

(38:20):
there was a special agent incharge, and then me for the
entire state of Washington.
I took that very, veryseriously and what would happen
would be and, toby, you caninterrupt me anytime what would
happen would be over the months,over the months or for, or a
homicide, and my wife Karen willlook at me and she go, you're

(39:01):
going to be busy this morning Isaid, yep, here we go.
So I go into work.
The first thing I do is I get aphone call from my special
agent in charge on this on thefloor above me and he goes Sam,
sam, can you come up?
Yes, sir, so I go up, he goes,did you?

Speaker 1 (39:17):
see the news.

Speaker 2 (39:18):
Yes, sir, run a records check and see if we were
ever notified about thisindividual being illegal.
So I have my group supervisorrun the record check.
It's an inch thick of arreststhat this individual was
involved in criminal acts thathe was involved in and released,

(39:42):
never charged.
We were never notified and Isaid to my boss, especially as
in charge what's going on hereWas this due to the sanctuary
city policy of the local policethat was in Seattle.

(40:02):
Yes, maybe I should.
You think I should touch onwhat a sanctuary city is,
because when I first started inSeattle I really didn't even
have an understanding of ituntil I was in management
dealing with it.

(40:22):
Do you want me to backtrack?

Speaker 3 (40:25):
Let's go to that, but finish, if you don't mind
finish the story on your sackand what he wanted you to do
with this guy's background andwhat the outcome was.

Speaker 2 (40:36):
OK.
So I would say, lee, we need tolet these people, the citizens
of Seattle and Washington state,know what's going on.
No, not our job, and then it isour job.
So you can see, theconfrontation was starting
between my supervisor and mebeing second in charge for the

(41:00):
state of Washington.
So no one says anything.
So this individual goes throughthe court system, the feds never
notified, never notified, getsentenced to a state prison for
whatever crime and theneventually gets let out.

(41:21):
Because you may or may not know, the public may or may not know
that sanctuary cities andstates do not notify the federal
government when an illegalalien is released from prison or
jail period.
And you shake your head, you go, wait a second.

(41:42):
So what happened to this guy?
He served three years, fiveyears, seven years, whatever his
sentence is, walks out ofprison, goes right back to
Seattle, lives happily everafter, until he commits what
Another crime, and maybe ormaybe not.
We as feds will be advised,usually not, because sometimes

(42:04):
it's a misdemeanor, drunkdriving, assault and battery.
So his rap sheet, his criminalrecord, keeps growing and
growing.
And then what happens?
He commits another felony andnow all of a sudden people are
outraged how can this happen.
And that's when I wanted mymanagement team to back me, go

(42:28):
before the press and say this iswhy it happens.
Because you're in a sanctuarycity, you're in a sanctuary
state.
The federal government nevergets involved.
Because we don't get involved?
Because management, if you'rein a sanctuary city or sanctuary
state, don't want to ruffle thefeathers of the politicians

(42:51):
that authorize these illegalsanctuary policies.
They're illegal.
There's no such thing as asanctuary policy.
Regarding immigration, let mejust repeat that there is no
policy or law that clarifies andauthorizes sanctuary cities,

(43:18):
states and counties, usually asanctuary county or city,
federal or state.
It's usually a wink, it's noteven in writing.
It's a wink.
It's an understanding betweenthe city mayor, between the city
manager, the police chief, thesheriff, the prosecutors, that

(43:44):
hey, we'll just handle thiswithin our little community or
within our state.
Don't bring in the feds, becausewe believe that no matter if
you're illegal or legal, ifyou're illegal, you get a
different set of rules that youhave to abide by and live by,
which is none, and I try toexplain that when I did my

(44:08):
public speaking and people lookat me like what are you talking
about?
Well, I have examples, hundreds, hundreds of examples of
illegal aliens not onlycommitting crimes, horrific
crimes, but killing policeofficers, state troopers and

(44:32):
sheriffs.
I've done exhaustive researchon it.
It's all documented.
I can go to just what a monthago, ironically but sadly, a
Washington state trooper killedby an illegal alien who had a

(44:52):
arrest record of a mile long butwas protected under quote
unquote sanctuary policies.
The feds were never notified.
And again, when I was doingpublic speaking, people look at
me and on my PowerPointpresentation I had to pull up
the slide of the horrific crime,just horrific.

(45:15):
And I'm not going to take thetime because I can talk for
hours.
We have the one in SanFrancisco.
The poor girl was shot by anillegal alien at the pier.
You probably remember thatthere was outrage just a few
months ago.
Just a few months ago inAtlanta, the girl was jogging

(45:37):
and everybody was on nationalnews and and and talking about
how we have to crack down.
And I'm saying to us, wait asecond, back in 2007, 2008, and
2009.
I'm screaming, I'm raisingevery flag I can.

(45:58):
Of course, I was held backbecause of my position.
I had to be very carefulbecause, honestly, I didn't want
to lose my 26-year pension.
So if my boss says, keep yourmouth shut, I kept my mouth shut
.
In fact, it got so bad inSeattle they had to hire it was

(46:23):
the first time a publicinformation officer, because the
special agent in chargecouldn't take the heat anymore.
The news was calling to findout the background on an
individual who was arrested formurder, who was arrested for
rape of a little girl, who wasarrested for arson.

(46:43):
My manager couldn't say oh well, we were never notified.
He's been arrested 17 times inSeattle and King County, which
is in, which is the county forSeattle, and we were never
notified.
No, no, no, you can't say that.
You can't say that.

(47:03):
So the public never knows that.
Number one, he was an illegalalien.
And number two, his arrestrecord was 17 pages because
nobody would ever say anything.
And that went on and on and on.
So everything went to thepublic information officer.
Of course, she was trained tobeat around the subject spin.

(47:28):
It never mentioned that he wasan illegal alien in this country
for the past seven years inthis country committing crimes
that now led to the rape, murder, homicide, of why it's now
brought to the attention of thepublic and again, as a manager,

(47:48):
it was getting more frustrating,more frustrating.
It was getting more frustrating, more frustrating.
And there was one case inparticular but there's one case
in particular that I have in mypresentation where an illegal
alien was dating a girl thatworked at the college in Seattle
, washington State, I believe itwas, and he went into where she

(48:13):
works at the college and shother, killed her and of course,
we get called about it.
Do the background on him.
Well, he was an illegal out ofEurope.
He's been living in the countryfor years and years.
He was an illegal, came inillegally and he murdered his

(48:35):
girlfriend at the time.
Well, what we came to find outwas four hours prior he was
arrested by Seattle police fordrunk driving and they let him
go.
Now, if it wasn't a sanctuarycity and sanctuary policies, we,
the feds, would have beennotified that we apprehended

(49:01):
so-and-so, we believe, is anillegal alien from Europe and we
would have went and put him inhandcuffs and initiated
deportation, but we were nevernotified.
You got a death on your handsand again, ironically and sadly,
I gave a presentation.
And sadly, I gave a presentation.
I had about a month, threeweeks, left before I retired,

(49:25):
january 1st 2009.
So my supervisor, the specialagent in charge, calls me in and
said Sam, I want you to go downand give a speech on
immigration to about 150 lawenforcement people.
And I looked at him Again oneof the stories I'll never forget
.
I looked at him and says youwant me to go Because, as you

(49:52):
can tell, I might be kind ofvocal.
I says you want me to go.
He says, yeah, go, give him apiece of your mind.
Okay, you want me to do that.
I'll do it.
I had three weeks left.
What are they going to do to me?
So I go down and there's about150 law enforcement people,
there are some people from thepublic and I gave a little
presentation on the spirit ofsanctuary cities and policies

(50:17):
and the damage that they'redoing to Seattle and the state
of Washington.
And there was two troopersWashington State troopers and
they had the scrambled eggs goldon their hats and they were on
the desk and looking back on it.
Maybe I should have done this.

(50:38):
Maybe I shouldn't have done it,I don't care.
So I said to the troopers.
I said let me ask you aquestion.

(50:58):
I said we've got two WashingtonState troopers here me.
Well enough, I can be a littlesarcastic.
I try to know the answer beforeI ask a question.
I said you guys patrol thehighways in Washington State 24
hours a day, seven days a week,correct?
That's correct.
I said can you answer me thisquestion?
Why is it that off of Interstate5, going south of Tacoma,

(51:22):
there's a military base?
If you make the exit and youturn right, you're at the
military base.
I'm sorry.
If you turn left, you're at themilitary base.
You're at the point of noreturn.
You've got to go to the gate.
Well, at the gate you gotmilitary police.
If you make a right, you go tothe McDonalddonald's, you go to
burger king, you go to kentuckyfried chicken.

(51:44):
Well, what happens is peoplethat can't speak english and
can't read english signs they'regoing to.
I mean, they're coming up towashington because it's a
sanctuary state.
They get free license driverlicense.
They get free health care.
They get free.
They get free license driverlicense.
They get free health care.

(52:05):
They get free this, they getfree that.
So they were all coming toWashington State, which they
still do, and they make a rightand if they can read the signs,
they get their fast food.
And there's seven, eight ofthem in a car, eight of them in
a car.
If they make a left, they're atthe military base.
Well, lo and behold, they pullup to the military base.

(52:29):
The military police stops them.
Driver's license no driver'slicense.
Where are you from?
We're from Mexico.
They call the feds two, threetimes a week and we run down and
we pick them up, no problem,and we do what we have to do.
And we do what we have to do.

(52:59):
Why is it that the WashingtonState Patrol in over four and a
half years, 24 hours a day?
We have a policy that we don'tinterfere with illegal aliens.
And somebody in the back yelledwe're sorry, we can't hear you.
So he stood up and he says wehave a policy, and I've got that
policy in my presentation.
We have a policy that we don'tinterfere with illegal aliens.

(53:24):
We basically let them go.
Somebody in the back goes.
That's stupid.
Then somebody else goes.
What do you mean?
Know what he did?
He picked up his hat and hewalked out.
The one Washington State patrolofficer stayed.
He took a little heat and thenI saw was getting out of control

(53:45):
and I stepped in.
I said well, look, that's theirpolicy, you can't blame the
trooper.
And that's their policy to thisday.
And that brings me again to theironic and sad.
Three weeks ago, a month agoI've lost track, to be honest
Washington State trooper shotand killed by an illegal alien.
Maybe again, I don't know, Imean, I'm an expert in some

(54:14):
areas of law enforcement andcriminal justice but maybe
someone at the Washington StatePatrol should say you know,
let's look at our illegalsanctuary policies and maybe we
should arrest or detain ornotify the feds.
But what happened?
Nothing.
The policy to this day is putblinders on.

(54:37):
And I gave the example that ifyou're a US citizen and you get
stopped without a driver'slicense, you can bet your butt
you're going to be pulled in,you're going to be given a
summons, they're going to run acriminal record check on you If
you're an illegal alien in thestate of Washington.
Have a good day, sir, drivecareful.
Sounds, unbelievable Soundslike come on, sam.

(55:01):
No, sam's telling exactly thetruth.
Whether you commit arson,whether you commit a murder,
whether you rape of a child,theft, larceny, you name it.
If you're an illegal alien inthe state of Washington, in the
city of Seattle, in the countyof King, hands off bye-bye.

Speaker 1 (55:25):
Sam, I'm like you know, for a lay person like me
and I try not to watch too muchnews because it bums me out, but
you have obviously a lot ofexperience with this In your
perspective.
In your experience like, whendid this, this start?
Obviously it was happening 15years ago, but when did it start
and who is everyone did?

(55:47):
Was it one place and everyone'sfollowing, or was it like a
nationwide thing like where,where and when can we trace this
craziness back to?
Can I jump in, jeff?

Speaker 3 (55:57):
absolutely with this.
Yeah, um, sam, if you rememberthat, I was transferred out of
the asset forfeiture group overto what we called 79th Street,
which was where the immigrationinvestigations occurred, and
they transferred me because theexcuse was oh, he's an

(56:18):
ex-marshal, deputy marshal, heknows fugitives and he knows how
to do this.
So when I went over, we had abunch of, let's say, agents that
were there, that didn't want tobe there, but we all banded
together and we went through thewarrants and I was amazed that

(56:38):
people from the 80s and 90s Imean the height of Miami, with
the cocaine cowboys, withEscobar and all that, plus the
locals, the local gangs andstuff like that from another law
enforcement agency like DEA,broward Sheriffs, they would get

(57:03):
stepped back.
Stepped back, meaning cuffed,and taken to that jurisdiction.
But immigration never pickedthem up.
There was a huge, there werepiles of warrants, so we went
through them and we startedmaking arrests.
You know, we would go out atthe last known addresses.

(57:24):
We were starting to get thetechnology through the internet
and we were able to find wherethey were.
So this is like almost 20 yearslater, these people had been
roaming the streets of Miami andwe started making arrests and
that so these policies incertain places were in place

(57:45):
even in the eighties.
Yeah, yeah, there was some.
Well, no, it was just a lot ofnegligence.
There was no policy but nobodythought, hey, let's call
immigration and do this.
So.

Speaker 1 (57:56):
So when did the policy start?
Like I, we got.
We got to be able to nail thatdown to someone.
It's a good question.

Speaker 2 (58:03):
Jeff, let me, let me let me, if I can, just to what
Toby said.
And then I want to addsomething.
We used to when I say weHomeland Security in Seattle, my
agents would go into the countyjails, would go into the state
jail and review the records ofinmates to identify those that
are illegal.

(58:24):
So when they get released atleast we know, the feds know
that they're going to bereleased because of our own
investigation the state, thecounty and the city corrections
believe it or not forbid federalagents to go into their quote

(58:45):
unquote jails to ascertain thatinformation.
Now you're saying any personlistening to this is saying wait
a second.
This guy's telling me that thefederal government, federal
agents, cannot go into jails andreview the records to identify
illegal aliens.
Yes, let me make it clear.

(59:06):
Yes, that's what I'm tellingyou then and that's what I'm
telling you now.
Now to answer your question,just briefly, if I can, I just
want to highlight one or twothings about sanctuary cities
and policies, because when,again, I was giving my public
speaking, the first question Iask is who knows what a

(59:29):
sanctuary city, state, countypolicy is churches has to do

(59:50):
with?
When people are released fromprison, they go live in a
sanctuary to get like a halfwayhouse.
So they had no clue.
So I give a little backgroundand I'll just go through one or
two things.
Generally, sanctuary policiesinstruct city employees not to
notify the federal government ofthe state of Washington has may
have been passed by a localgovernment body in the form of a

(01:00:31):
resolution, ordinance oradministrative action, general
or special orders or departmentpolicies.
Most of them are departmentpolicies.
When you see a sheriff on TVtalking about the immigration
and talking about this, talkingabout that, the first thing I
want to know is do you believein sanctuary policies In Seattle

(01:00:55):
?
99% of them might not believein it, but that's the policy.
Now, for me, I can never be asheriff knowing that I'm
handcuffed, handcuffing myofficers from doing their job to
protect the people of thatcommunity.
However, some sheriffs manysheriffs care less.

(01:01:19):
They get a paycheck.
Hey city manager, mayor, youdon't want me to do anything
with illegal Plans that commitcrimes.
Ie call the feds, I won't callthe feds.
Formal sanctuary cities are theeasiest to identify because they
put their sanctuary policies inwriting, which become subject

(01:01:42):
to public records requests.
That's how I found all theseout, not because I was a federal
agent because I did a Freedomof Information Act to get their
policy, and they're proud of it.
The state of Washington isproud of it, the city of Seattle
is proud of it, King County ofit.
The city of Seattle is proud ofit, king County, washington is

(01:02:06):
proud of it.
An informal sanctuary policy isa policy that does not exist on
paper and this is where Imentioned prior about the little
wink of an eye but nonethelessis carried out by government
workers, administrative serviceor safety.
An informal sanctuary policy ismore difficult to document

(01:02:32):
since no public record exists.
Again, it's a little wink ofthe eye.
The mayor tells the chief, thechief tells the sergeant, the
sergeant tells his officers.
There's no policy, there'snothing you can put your hand on
, but there's this understandingthat we don't do anything with,
again, illegal aliens, even ifthey commit crime, just process

(01:02:54):
them, let them go to court.
They either get fines, they'llget maybe county jail time.
If it's less than 365 days,they might go to state prison.
They come out and they livehappily.
Ever after Sanctuary policies,official or otherwise, result in
safe havens for illegal aliensand potential terrorists.

(01:03:16):
And I'm going to get to thatbefore we end.
And this goes back to bear withme to 1996.
Sanctuary policies allowcriminal aliens to avoid
deportation simply because theyprevent local police from

(01:03:39):
reporting alien criminals to ICE.
I mean, it's pretty clear, it'spretty direct.
Basically, what I'm trying tosay is, if you're an illegal
alien in a sanctuary city,whether it's a written policy,
whether it's a wink of an eye,you're protected.
You're protected by any kind ofcourt action or federal action

(01:04:03):
to get you arrested and out ofthe country, and that's why we
have the problem today.
Now, if I can, just one thingso I retired in January 2009,
and that's what I was up against, and I authorized a worksite

(01:04:24):
enforcement investigation.
Toby, I'm sure you're familiarwith that, perhaps the public is
not, but Toby, I don't recall.
I left in 2009.
Do you recall any worksiteenforcement actions since 2009?

Speaker 3 (01:04:46):
Anywhere.
No, and right after I retiredin 2006, they started doing
those kind of policies and theHSIO office— I'm going to tell
you why Go ahead.

Speaker 2 (01:05:01):
I'm going to tell you why.
Go ahead.
I'm going to tell you whyYou're exactly right.
Again, all documented, in fact,in my website I have a website,
ice under firecom.
In my website I have aCongressman back in 2009 or 2008
.
Had to be 2008.

(01:05:21):
No-transcript and headquartersis opening an investigation on

(01:05:55):
the agents that arrested theillegal aliens.
Now, now, and this is one of thereasons I retired, so I get
called in because the Congresswomen in Seattle was calling my

(01:06:17):
boss demanding an explanation ofwhy I and it was me, probably
for my agents, to go to thiswork site.
And we did all theinvestigation.
We knew, we knew the one thingabout the feds when we
investigate you, we know whenyou go to the bathroom, when you
go to sleep, we know everything.
We don't go in blind,unfortunately, like a police
officer doesn't know what he'sgoing to, what he's going to
confront.
We, we, we have a good idea.
So we arrested the 25 illegalaliens.

(01:06:39):
I'm kind of you know.
So we arrested the 25 illegalaliens.
I'm kind of you know.
No one got hurt, went very well, no problem.
Next thing, I'm getting calledin.
Why did I do what I did?
Why did I authorize it?
And again, I had the final saybecause I was management and I'm
like what are you talking about?
We arrested 25 illegals out ofthe business.

(01:07:00):
And well, I'm getting mysupervisor, the manager.
I'm getting phone calls fromthe Congress people they want to
know why you did this.
Because at the time it wasPresident Obama.
He ordered no worksiteenforcement operations.
They were to cease.
I didn't know that.
I joined my job.
The next thing I know, quoteunquote, they're sending the

(01:07:24):
flying squad, which is acommonly known phrase for the
feds, their headquarters,internal affairs agents.
They're flying them in fromWashington DC to investigate me
why I violated a presidentialorder of not doing any worksite
enforcement.
Hard to believe.
Hard to believe, but again alldocumented by this congressman

(01:07:52):
who, openly, he discusses it.
Well, that was me.
So that's when I realized 26years federal service pension.
They're coming after me.
What do you do?
Some people would say I'd fight.
I've been fighting the last, oh, six years, seven years,

(01:08:15):
fighting the immigration battleand I didn't have any more fight
.
I admit it, I had no more fight.
So now, if we can, um, Iretired 2009.
Let's look where we're at nowwith immigration, because it's
all this talk, uh, I I kind ofget a kick out of when I turn on

(01:08:36):
the tv and everyone's at thedesk with their hands folded and
they all have their tie on andthey're very trim and proper.
Half of them never even met anillegal alien.
The other half don't evenreally know what a sanctuary
city or a sanctuary policy is.

(01:08:57):
But they're experts.
And I sit there and I just getso frustrated and aggravated
because of the lives that arebeing lost.
And, for instance, let's justtalk about current Migrants from
China.
This is as of a week ago,fiscal year 2024.
Okay, that goes from October toOctober.

(01:09:18):
So from October to March 2024,41,970.
Fiscal year 23, 52,700.
Fiscal year 2022, 27,000,21,000, 23,000.

(01:09:40):
Customs Border Patrol isestimating that there's over 10
million illegal aliens currentlyin the United States.
I was only in Seattle, I wasonly in Washington State.
We now have 10 million plus,according to Customs and Border

(01:10:01):
Patrol, known gotaways.
According to Customs and BorderPatrol, for fiscal year 2024,
again October to May 8th just afew days ago, may 8th
approximately 175,000 gotaways,ones that Customs and Border
Patrol don't even know about.

(01:10:23):
They know about the 10 millionplus, but those 10 million plus
never a background investigation.
They don't even know if theirreal name is what it is.
And just one other thing thatkind of upsets me.
It shows you how lawenforcement kind of buys into

(01:10:45):
this.
I never bought into thepolitical game, but it's obvious
to me and I might be wrong, butI'll make the assumption, and
I'll make the assertion, thatCustoms and Border Patrol is now
in bed with the politicians, isnow in bed with the politicians

(01:11:08):
.
Why do I say that?
Clearly, you watch TV.
They show the president of theBorder Patrol Union on TV.
He talks about all thestatistics that I just gave you.
And what does he say?
We need more agents.
We need more agents.
No, he needs more agents forhis union.
That's what he needs.
He doesn't need more agents onthe front line.
You've got all the agents onthe front line you need.

(01:11:31):
Take the handcuffs off of them.
Put them on the front line.
Give them the authority toenforce federal immigration laws
.
Stop having the agents hand outthe bologna sandwiches and the
bottles of water and taking themon a bus to an airport, putting

(01:11:52):
them on a plane, sending themto all these different cities
for them to just roam loose.
Them to just roam loose.
You don't need more agents, youneed enforcement policies.
Take the handcuffs off thecurrent agents.
You got on the border, but no,what do they complain about?
We need more agents.

(01:12:12):
We need more agents, moreagents to do what You're not
allowed to do, anything.
But yet I'm the bad guy,because I don't go along with
hiring more agents, hiring morepeople to support the mission.
There is no immigration everyday on the news and as a

(01:12:38):
prediction, unfortunately, Ithink one day we're going to
wake up and out of those 10million plus that Customs and
Border Patrol has no knowledgeabout, there's going to be a
terroristic attack.
I know you can't say thatbecause we've got Homeland

(01:12:59):
Security, we've got the FBI,we've got the CIA, we've got all
kinds of agencies going toensure that.
It's a very good question.
I get asked that when I didgive my presentations and I'll

(01:13:31):
tell you, in my view, where wego from here is holding people
responsible, no-transcript youtell me how that can happen.

(01:14:33):
Someone needs to be responsible.
The sheriff, sue the mayor,bring up these public
information documents describingwhat a sanctuary city policy is
, the hands off, and let themjustify.
As I'm raising the question, howcan this happen?

(01:14:54):
Like you said, jeff, how canthis happen?
It's going to stop when all ofa sudden, the sheriff goes holy
smokes, they're suing me for$2.3 million.
Holy smokes, the sheriff, thechief of police gets called in.
The police officer gets calledin.
Why did you let this guy go?
Well, we have a sanctuary citypolicy.

(01:15:16):
What you knew?
He has a rap sheet because youcan easily run it.
You knew he has a criminalhistory and the next day he goes
out and murders this person.
You don't think he'sresponsible.
I do, and that's how I thinkyou're going to see it turn
around.
Other than that, politics,especially at the federal level,

(01:15:38):
as high as the president level,congress, the Senate, they know
about sanctuary cities.
They know about sanctuarypolicies.
And one other thing the federalgovernment gives homeland
security grants to all thesecities.
Explain to me please, if youcan I'll ask you the question,

(01:16:03):
because I have no answer.
How can the federal governmentgive federal funds for Homeland
Security enforcement, knowingthat that city, county and state
is a sanctuary county, city orstate, give them billions of
dollars to enforce HomelandSecurity federal rules?

(01:16:24):
When they don't do it, cut thefunding.
It's real simple.
You're a sanctuary state,washington.
You're a sanctuary state, newJersey.
You're a sanctuary state,california.
You know that $13.2 billionwe're going to give you for
Homeland Security enforcement.
It's canceled.

(01:16:44):
Watch how quick it turns around.
But until that happens, jeffToby, I have no answer and
that's why, again, sadly, I left, because I didn't have an
answer to give to my agents andI'm not going to handcuff my
agents.
They're looking at me, they'redoing their background.

(01:17:05):
Gang members we arrested 52 gangmembers, toby.
You know the MS-13s, the SIRs,bad of the bad, badasses, all
tatted up.
We arrested 52 of them.
I believe Could have been 50.
All tatted up.
We arrested 52 of them.
I believe Could have been 50.
Again, I got called in becausethey wanted to know the rap

(01:17:26):
sheet, the criminal history ofall of them.
Well, again, don't hold me tothe exact number.
Maybe 30 of them were badasses.
Prior rap sheet badasses, thebad of the bad.
They'll cut you up by lookingat you.
The other 20 called them.
What was the phrase we used?

(01:17:47):
Not come alongs.
There was a phrase we used theywere in the apartment or they
were in the house.
Well, they were illegal.
So we put handcuffs on.
Right, they're illegals,they're not gang members, but
they're associated with gangmembers.
But they were not, in allhonesty, identified as gang
members, but they were illegal.

(01:18:08):
We arrested everybody.
I get called in, I get my asschewed for making the arrest
because they were not quoteunquote gang members, they were
only illegals hanging out ingang member houses or apartments
.
And my manager had to go on aSpanish right.

(01:18:30):
But my manager again, hard tobelieve, it's all documented.
My manager had to go on theSpanish radio station in Seattle
with the chief of police fromSeattle, and that's another
story, gil Karakoski, which youcan talk forever on him.

(01:18:51):
He went with the chief ofpolice in Seattle on the Spanish
radio station to what Apologizefor what his agents did and
what the police officersassisted the federal agents in
doing.
Hard to believe, real quickabout Gil Karakoski.

(01:19:11):
Since I'm on a roll, I think,toby, you know the fine
gentleman.

Speaker 3 (01:19:16):
Yeah, I know, I know Gil, he was uh not personally,
but he was the.
He was an officer in um st petestarted out st pete, florida
well, you know his background,sam, so he rose okay.
So drugs are gill karakoski was.

Speaker 2 (01:19:33):
Gill karakoski was the chief of police in seattle.
When I got there, my firstmission was sam, go over,
introduce yourself, because Iwas on the law enforcement end
of it.
Go over, introduce yourself.
Let them know that whatever wecan do to help them, blah, blah,
blah.
I met the manager.

(01:19:53):
We had a nice conversation andI told them look, I've got a lot
of experience.
Seattle is a beautiful city.
I don't want to see anythinghappen to it.
We're here to help you.
The federal government's hereto help you, and in this case,
we seriously were.
I had 50 agents, we were readyto do whatever we had to do, and
we shake hands Two days lateris when the chief puts out this

(01:20:17):
memo do not cooperate with thefeds.
This memo do not cooperate withthe feds anyway.
So uh, so uh.
Gil karakoski gets promoted tothe drug czar, federal drug czar
by president obama, which isgreat, you know and he leaves
city of seattle and I'm sayingso well, he's gone.
So hopefully the next chiefwill adjust, change some of

(01:20:41):
these policies.
Of course he didn't, becausecity management didn't allow him
to.
So he didn't.
No problem, I'll do what I gotto do to get by.
So Gil Karakoski's gone.
Drugs are.
God bless him, that's the endof the story.
All of a sudden he becomesappointed director of customss

(01:21:01):
and Border Patrol underPresident Obama.
Wait a second, now let me justbacktrack.
This is the individual who waschief of police in the city of
Seattle that forbid his officersto cooperate with the federal
government in federal lawenforcement.

(01:21:21):
Now you put him in charge ofCustoms and Border Patrol for
the entire country.
What policies do you think heincorporated?
And that's why the BorderPatrol Union did an announcement

(01:21:42):
where they refused to back him.
They wanted his recall and I'vegot all those documents because
his policy was hands off ofillegals.
Well, wait a second.
What does Customs and BorderPatrol do?
They arrest and apprehendillegal criminal aliens.
Your boss is telling you no,don't do that.

(01:22:05):
Don't do that, just lay low.
So again, jeff, to answer yourquestion, I have no answer.
I have no answer.
I've got the expertise, but noone wants to hear what needs to
be done.
You need to do away withsanctuary policies.
In order to do away withsanctuary policies, hit either

(01:22:26):
individuals in the pocket or hitthe state, county, cities in
their pocket.
You fund them from HomelandSecurity.
Then you might see somethingOther than that.
It's all talk.

Speaker 1 (01:22:41):
So real quick, um do you know off the top of your
head if there's ever been like asuccessful, um you know, civil
trial from a victim of one ofthese crimes to, um you know,
either a, an officer or a chiefor a politician, like to date no
, I don't, and that's and that'sa that's another excellent

(01:23:02):
question.

Speaker 2 (01:23:03):
I know and again this goes back a couple of years
that poor girl that was shot.
She was with her father in SanFrancisco.
It was an illegal, he had a gunand he went to trial in San
Francisco and he was found notguilty of because he
accidentally pulled the triggerand shot her in the head and

(01:23:23):
then he was subsequentlydeported.
But I don't know whether thatfamily did anything.
The one in atlanta I I Iseriously considered reaching
out to the attorney andexpressing my views months ago.
It was an outcry outcry, jeff.

(01:23:45):
In my presentation I go back to2009, before of horrific murder,
homicide cases that are equalto or worse than the Atlanta one
.
A poor lady walking herdaughter from ballet class comes

(01:24:06):
out of the ballet school.
Both get hit by an illegalalien drunk driver, both killed.
I can go.
Police officers, policeofficers killed.
I got a video of a policeofficer pulling over a car and
the illegals First thing they dois jump out and start shooting
at the trooper.
Luckily he survived, but it wasall on video camera.

(01:24:29):
And it goes on and on and onuntil tomorrow, until next week.
There's going to be anotherhorrific if the word gets out
that it was, usually it'scovered up.
I go into great detail andagain we don't have the time.
I go into great detail where Iwould contact news stations or

(01:24:52):
newspapers because they put in,for instance and I'm just using
a name Jose Gonzalez Rodriguez.
So they talk about his criminalhistory, they talk about the
murder he did, but there's nostatus as far as his alien

(01:25:12):
status.
And I was just curious.
I mean it should be publicinformation.
I'd like to know, you know, ifa Russian commits a crime in the
United States, if a Russiancommits a crime in the United
States, a Russian citizen, ifsomebody from New York commits a
crime in Florida a New Yorkcitizen traveled to Florida.
I just want to know where thisgentleman's from.
Jeff, I've got it all and Toby,I've got it all documented.

(01:25:36):
You know what response I getback from either the news
station or the reporter thatreported the story.
We're not interested in that.
We're not interested in that.
You want to know why?
Because 99% of them are fromsanctuary cities, counties and
states and their editors tellthem don't worry about he was a

(01:26:01):
Mexican or Guatemalan orwhatever, don't worry about that
, just report the story and letit go away until the next one,
and that's what you're facing.
That's what you're facing.
Fortunately, florida, we don'thave that issue.
The governor doesn't allow it.
There is no sanctuary to myknowledge.

(01:26:23):
Toby, you might know there isno sanctuary policies written or
a wink of the eye.
You commit a crime in the stateof Florida, no matter who you
are.
You're going to go through thecriminal justice system and if
you're not here in the countrylegally, you will be prosecuted
by the feds period Period.

(01:26:46):
But yet I can talk aboutWashington.
I can talk about Washingtonstate.
I can talk about California.
Don't even get me going withOregon, because some of my
responsibility was in Portland.
I served in Portland for acouple of weeks when the special
agent in charge was out.
I know all about Portland.
I know all about California.

(01:27:06):
You know Texas.
You got Austin.
Texas doesn't toleratesanctuary cities, counties,
except Austin.
Austin doesn't.
The governor doesn't doanything about it.
I don't know.
I don't know, but austin is abig sanctuary city policy, new

(01:27:27):
york huge, and that's why newyork has the problems they have.
I don't live in new york, I Iwish new york citizens the best,
but when a horrific crime iscommitted, I I kind of, you know
feel bad, have a sip of coffeeand my life goes on because I

(01:27:51):
realize there's nothing I can do.
And that's the saddest part ofending an over 32 year career
that I realized I couldn't doanything.
I just, individually I couldn'tdo it.
And to individually I couldn'tdo it.
And to this day it's obviouslyyou can tell, I think that it
still bothers me because I don'twant to see anybody killed.

(01:28:12):
I don't want to see anybodykilled by a drunk driver who
doesn't have a license, who'sbeen in this country for seven
years, who's committed 15, 16,17 crimes, who has gone to a
state prison in a state andreleased, then gets behind the
wheel with no driver's license,drunk, and kills a family.
Yeah, it pisses me off.

Speaker 3 (01:28:32):
And this is why when Jeff and I came up with this
concept of doing this kind ofshow.
You watch the media you watch.
I don't care if you're watchingCNN or you're watching Fox News
, msnbc, whatever the alphabet.
The experts are not people likeyou, people who've experienced

(01:28:55):
the full spectrum and yourcareer's been tremendous.
You know you've contributed toeverything in law enforcement to
protect and serve of ourcitizens.
But it's good to have this on,because I was frustrated
watching these so-called expertsthat are on there in criminal

(01:29:17):
justice and law enforcement andreally they don't have the
experience.
A lot of them were politicalappointments, they came along
with the right time to beappointed and I think the public
is tired of seeing these kindof people on.
They want to see the agents,the police officers, the inmates

(01:29:41):
, the advocates, the lawyers,the prosecutors all that and
sure, there's a lot of nostalgiain the 1890s, but you brought
it up to date.
There's issues now that arerelevant, that need to be solved
with the sanctuary city, notjust lining up border patrol

(01:30:02):
agents along the border, butbasically to get them to be able
to do their job again, and Iwant to thank you, sam, for
coming out on this and I'm proudto have you a friend for over
30, 33 years or so.
Yeah, 33 years and I enjoy it.

Speaker 2 (01:30:28):
It's been a while.
But you know, toby, I just wantto add, just because it's in my
nature I don't know if you evenknow I traveled to Krakow,
poland, and I went to theHolocaust.
And I went to the Holocaust, Iwent to Auschwitz.
I spent 14, 15 hours, thetoughest part of my life.
Why did I go?
Because even back then and nowit's magnified, but even back

(01:30:54):
then there's the people that say, oh, that never happened, this
didn't happen, that didn'thappen.
I wanted to go see it myselfand I did.
Okay, I lived and I saw whattranspired in Auschwitz.
Okay, I lived and I experiencedillegal aliens, what they're
doing to this country, whatthey're doing to American

(01:31:16):
families.
No one could take that awayfrom me.
Any someone can criticize me.
Oh, I don't know what I'mtalking about.
I do know what I'm talkingabout.
If I say something about theNazis and about Auschwitz, I can
now say to them have you everbeen there?
And I'll bet you 100 percent,no, I've never been there, but I

(01:31:38):
read about it.
Well, I've been there.
I experienced it.
The same way, I experienced thestatus of what's going on with
the crime in this country andagain, I'll leave you with this
someday, someday, sadly.
We're going to look back onthis.
We're going to look back onother things I've said.

(01:31:59):
If there's a terrorist attack,this country is going to be
really, really hurting and I andI hate to end that way, but
it's the way I feel.
The facts, the circumstancesdictate that's coming.

Speaker 3 (01:32:11):
Okay, I hope you're wrong, but it seems that the
direction of where we're goingwith that situation.

Speaker 2 (01:32:21):
When you watch me, when you get 41,000 year to date
of migrants from China that wehave no idea their true
background.
They don't even give the realnames 41,970 from China.
If you think China is ourfriend, well then I don't know

(01:32:43):
what to say.
I don't know what to say, sothat's where we're at.
That's my view.
I wish I had a better story totell, but I'm telling the facts,
the circumstances and wherewe're headed, sadly.

Speaker 3 (01:32:58):
No, I appreciate it.
I think the viewers willappreciate your point of view
and it's been my honor andprivilege and I know Jeff feels
the same way to have you comeforth with your stories and your
opinions and all that, and I'llbe seeing you soon.

(01:33:20):
Sam works us.

Speaker 2 (01:33:23):
Okay, do I have a quick second to tell?
Probably a good story?
Sure, or a very interestingstory.

Speaker 1 (01:33:30):
Let's end on a good note.

Speaker 2 (01:33:35):
So November 26, 2008, .
My agents come in to me and go2008,.
My agents come in to me and go,hey, we've got a CI that
somebody's selling Hitler'sbookmark.
I'm like what, what are youtalking about?
So we do some investigating andsure enough, his longtime

(01:33:57):
mistress, eva Braun, gave Hitleran 18-carat gold bookmark and
on it it wrote my Adolf, don'tworry, only an inconvenience
that will not break yourcertainty of victory.
My love for you will be eternal, as our will be in 1943.

(01:34:22):
So, like I said, we do someresearch on this.
And sure enough, it was stolenfrom an auction gallery in
Madrid about six years prior.
So I authorized my agents toget the front money.
They wanted $100,000 for it.
So we meet him, my agents meethim at starbucks.

(01:34:45):
Sure enough, the guy presentsthis gold bookmark that was used
by hitler.
And, uh, anyway, uh, werecovered it, arrested the, the
subject who stole it or who wasinvolved in the theft, and we
returned it back to Madrid.

(01:35:05):
And of course, they werethrilled to death.
But I actually held in my handssomething that Hitler held in
his hands and it goes to showyou the work that we did back
then, not with immigration, but,as you know, toby drugs, child

(01:35:25):
pornography what's the word I'mlooking for?
Trademark violations, currencyviolations.
Unfortunately we don't hearanything about those anymore.
All we hear about is the borderand I don't know who's actually
doing these other types ofinvestigations.

(01:35:47):
But there I mean, not too manypeople can say they actually
held something that Hitler hadin his possession, kind of
interesting, and I got picturesof it and anyway.

Speaker 1 (01:36:02):
So that's, we did good on that not only held, but
that must have been one of hislike prized possessions come as
a gift from Ava you know likethat's.

Speaker 2 (01:36:12):
I'll tell you, jeff.
Uh, I don't get too emotionalover things, but when I held
that emotional over things, butwhen I held that, it was
powerful.
It was only a bookmark, it wasa gold bookmark with that
writing inscribed on it, but tohold something that that animal

(01:36:34):
possessed, it was to this day,it was an overwhelming
experience.
And again, it was just abookmark, but it had so much
more meaning.

Speaker 1 (01:36:43):
Exactly just a bookmark, exactly the meaning of
evil thank you, sam, appreciateyou coming on, thanks yes,
thanks for, and um, I know we'vegot like a lot more we can
thank you so maybe, uh, maybe inthe future, especially if we've
got some more sanctuary citystuff pop up, we can get you
back.
I appreciate it and if anyonehas any questions for sam, maybe
if we get a bunch we'll haveyou back on and have you answer

(01:37:07):
some stuff.

Speaker 2 (01:37:09):
I appreciate it.
I look forward to hearing allthe other presenters.
Thank you, guys, very, verymuch.

Speaker 3 (01:37:14):
Take care, take care, buddy.