Ep 14: Diane Matuszak - From Playboy Bunny to NYPD Detective

Imagine starting your career as a Playboy Bunny only to find yourself years later as a detective in the NYPD. That's the incredible journey of our guest, Ms. Diane Matuszak. She shares with us her early days in Wisconsin, her unyielding love for New York City, and the pivotal moment that directed her towards a life in law enforcement. Diane’s recollections offer a vivid picture of the challenges and victories she faced, from joining the largest NYPD class in history to her initial assignments in Queens, and her ongoing dedication to justice in her current roles within the court system and as a private investigator.

Celebrate the trailblazing women who turned the tides for future generations in law enforcement. We delve into the transformation from custodial roles to fully recognized police officers, highlighted by Diane’s personal experiences of overcoming gender bias, earning respect, and handling critical situations. This episode underscores the remarkable progress in gender equality within law enforcement and the relentless commitment to excellence, regardless of gender.

Prepare for high-octane tales from Diane’s work in undercover narcotics operations and detective assignments. Experience the intense environment of Manhattan South's narcotics unit and the meticulous preparations for buy and bust operations. Diane recounts incredible moments, such as holding a drug dealer's baby while waiting for backup, and the psychological challenges posed by dealing with cunning criminals. Enjoy a blend of poignant and lighter anecdotes, revealing the complexities and unexpected twists of detective work. From daring operations to personal achievements, Diane’s stories highlight the importance of teamwork, adaptability, and the strong bonds formed among officers in the line of duty.

Produced by: Citrustream, LLC

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
It's my pleasure to have on the show today Justice
Then Justice Now Ms DianeMatusik.
Diane's going to talk about hercareer, which is very
interesting, and her backgroundworking for the largest police

(00:24):
department in the United States,where she rose to be second
grade detective and herafterlife in what she's doing
now with the court system and asa PI and an upcoming assignment
.
That's going to be veryinteresting next month too.
But I'm going to just turn itover to her.

(00:48):
She's a very shy person.
I guess when you're a detectivein homicide in Manhattan you're
kind of an outgoing,non-introvert personality for
that job.
So anyway, diane, thank youvery much for coming on.
Justice Then Justice Now.

Speaker 2 (01:09):
Thank you.
Thank you, Toby.
This is really an honor andreally a privilege for you to
invite me and speak about myself.
I mean, people like to speakabout themselves.
You're not supposed to brag,but we can brag on this show a
little bit, right?
I mean, whatever we did, we did.
We're proud of what we did.
The men and women in lawenforcement are wonderful people

(01:33):
and they need to be talkedabout and honored, and we have
so many stories to share, allfor the good, and the people
that are still out there todayputting their lives, and the
people that are still out theretoday putting their lives in
danger every day when they leavethe house.
So I commend everybody, becauseit's a tougher world today than
when I did it and when you didit, Toby.

(01:53):
I mean it was always tough, butwe had more people on our side,
I think back then Do you?

Speaker 1 (02:00):
agree with that oh, 100 percent, and it was a
different world.
Agree with that oh, 100%, andit was a different world.
And I believe that we were morerespected for what we did, it
was easy to recruit and that.
So my first question to you isif you could give a little
background and where you're from, and then how you got into law

(02:23):
enforcement.

Speaker 2 (02:32):
Okay, so I'm originally from Wisconsin, born
and raised in Milwaukee and thenmy parents bought a house out
in an area called Sussex,wisconsin, but after high school
I graduated over here in Sussex, wisconsin.
After high school graduated inJune, I took a job in October,
my big job, working for HughHefner at the Playboy Club.

(02:53):
So I was a Playboy Bunny for ayear and a half and that
basically took me out of Sussex,because once I was working at
the Playboy Club Club and I gotto meet all types of people,
rich and famous.
I mean, I was a young girl butI was always.
I always loved talking topeople and I loved ethnicity, I

(03:17):
loved accents and being at aplace like the Playboy Club.
We had a lot of people from outof town, from all over the
world, that would come there.
While I was working there, Itook a trip to New York City, to
the Big Apple, for a shortvacation, a long weekend, and I

(03:39):
went to New York and let me tellyou something, I fell in love
with it.
I knew right away this was forme Skyscrapers, the people all
over the place, the ethnicity,the arts, the hustle, the bustle
, the energy, the cityness of itall.

(04:00):
So I was there a short whileand when I came back to the
Playboy Club I remember waitingon a woman and the woman had
said to me she had this accent.
I said I know that accent,that's a New York accent.
And she said yeah.
I says I just came back fromthere.
I said I'm in love with it andI'm moving there.

(04:21):
And she says to me you'removing there, girl from
Wisconsin.
You know, I mean, you sure youwant to get involved in that?
She says it's a prettycompetitive place.
Are you sure you can handle it?
I thought who is this womanlike saying this to me?
But she probably was thetrigger that challenged me,

(04:45):
because I knew I was going andshe was right about the
competition.
She was right about the hustlebustle.
She was right about what shesaid and I still remember to
this day that it was competitive.
You were ready to get into that.
It's a fast pace.
There's a left lane inWisconsin but there's a left
lane in New York and it'squicker and faster.

(05:09):
Once I got out to New York, Ihad several jobs.
I had several jobs.
I didn't know left or right, Ididn't know north or south.
I got a job in Manhattan in theChrysler building, on the 41st
floor in the Chrysler building,working for Southern Magazine.
I was a Girl.
Friday I was secretary.
The next job I had, I workedfor a television company on 55th

(05:35):
and Madison, 53rd and MadisonITC Entertainment.
It was.
They made Fury, they producedFury, the Avengers People that
are watching this probably don'tknow these names Space, 1999.
And their biggest one, whichwas the Muppets.
But then the neighbor next doorcame over to me and he had an

(06:00):
application in his hand.
He was a detective in the 2-8precinct in Harlem.
He says here, fill it out with$10.
Send it in, maybe you can geton the job.
I went what and I did?
1979.
That was 1979.
That's all we're going to talkabout.

(06:20):
Years After that.
I'm not talking about years,but anyway, I got called in
three years later, 1982.
I got hired.
I got hired in the biggestclass of New York City history.
At the time it was 3,000 of us,so large that our graduation
class had to be at MadisonSquare Garden.

(06:43):
Amazing, we all threw our hatsup at the same time.
None of them got them back, ofcourse, and I knew that I was.
I got a front row seat to thebest show on earth, new York
City.
It was wonderful.

(07:08):
I was assigned to Queens.
I was assigned my first, ofcourse, in uniform, assigned to
Queens.
I worked there for a while.
Then I worked in Queens, inForest Hills, queens.
My first sort of coolassignment for me was to guard
Janine.
My first sort of coolassignment for me was to guard
Janine Ferraro's house.
Do you remember Janine Ferraro?

(07:31):
Yeah, she was boy, that was1984.
Signed there.
But then I had my sights onanti-crime and I mean I like the
uniform we all love the uniformbut I thought I would be better
situated in an undercoverposition or a plainclothes
position where I could talk andI loved responding to jobs.

(07:51):
I love helping people.
Even to this day I love helpingpeople.
I did eventually get intoplainclothes.
I got into anti-crime for ashort time but then I did this
thing they call it the 90 daywonder.
The narcotics unit picks you upfor 90 days and lets you do
street level buy and bust, whichI did, and then I had to do

(08:16):
another 90 days and then I gotpicked up permanently.
So once I got picked uppermanently I was assigned to
Queens.
But then I was assigned toManhattan South Detectives, the
Manhattan South Narcotics Unitand that's where it was 42nd
Street.
It was the Bowery, it wasDelancey Street, it was Hell's

(08:38):
Kitchen 42nd street.
It was crazy.
We're driving cars that had aNew Jersey license plates on
them and we're doing streetlevel buying bust at the time.
Every once in a while you do abig case, but I was.
I was in narcotics for aboutsix years and then I got

(08:59):
promoted to detective throughthere, which I loved Once I was
detective.
We usually leave the narcoticsunit.
A lot of people stay.
I chose to leave and go stay inManhattan and then I was
assigned to Gramercy Park and sojust another whole thing.
I was walking to get mybachelor's degree in criminology
because I could walk to JohnJay College of Criminal Justice

(09:22):
and it was a walk, but you coulddo it.
You didn't drive anywhere.
You know, if you know Manhattan, you don't drive anywhere.
So do you know Manhattan?
I mean I'm mentioning, like,gramercy Park, like you know,
and I know New Yorkers like toknow where you're talking about.
Are you familiar with New Yorkat all?

Speaker 1 (09:43):
Well, I know New York from taking trips in high
school which I wasn't supposedto do, leaving Springfield,
massachusetts and going downthere.
The other thing we use and Iknow it is I worked for the
marshals, I was on the fistoperations in Connecticut and we
had the big roundups in NewYork and Connecticut and stuff

(10:05):
like that, and then finally Iwent to work at Ground Zero on
October 14, 2001 and I came backto Miami on Christmas Eve.
So I guess I've been to NewYork but in all fairness, my
teams were sports teams, were upin the Boston area, so it was

(10:27):
kind of dangerous to go to, likeYankee Stadium for me.
But I want to go back tosomething really interesting and
parallel.
What got you into the job inNew York?
Okay, I know the viewers aregoing to want to know, and it's
just curiosity how do you go towork as a Playboy bunny at a

(10:50):
Playboy club?
What's the qualifications?
How do you?
How do you apply for those jobsback then?
Because I'm sure they were verycompetitive.

Speaker 2 (11:00):
Well, every job I ever had was competitive.
I mean, the world iscompetitive If you're not ready
to be, you know, to compete Togo to the job.
Well, I worked out all summer.
I worked out.
I was never fat, I was neverlike really overweight or
anything, but you have to be inshape.
You just have got to show themyour legs and you've got to be a

(11:23):
little presentable and put acostume on and see that you have
a waistline and, um, you haveto be able to hold a tray and,
uh, you know you have to be.
It's a.
It's really a glorifiedcocktail waitress.
I mean, I was never in the apin-up or anything like that,
but in fact to this day I stillgo to Playboy Bunny reunions.

(11:44):
We just had one in April.
Every two years we have one.
It's amazing.
The qualifications are young,not bad looking and being able
to.
You have to serve with drinksand talk to people and smile all

(12:05):
at the same time so did youmeet a lot of celebrities there?
did you some of the names thatyou ran into, or oh god, I
remember meeting um greg gregmorris from mission impossible.
Do you remember?
G Morris?
Sure Burt Bacharach was there.
Oh my God, these are such oldnames.

(12:27):
Jerry Van Dyke was there.
Jerry Van Dyke was a bigpartier.
He used to love the bunnies Boy.
There's a lot of celebritiesthat came in and out of there.
Yeah, it was a wonderfulexperience for a young girl.
They had an airport that camein and out of there.
We also went to Hugh Hefter'smansion whenever he had parties.

(12:51):
All the bunnies were invited toany party.
That's where I met who's theguy in shampoo?
Warren Beatty.

Speaker 1 (13:01):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (13:01):
Warren Beatty, he was there, yeah, so that was a long
time ago.

Speaker 1 (13:09):
No, it's really interesting.
It's a different world.
Yeah, when you went to New York, okay, they had had layoffs in
the 70s, massive layoffs.
They had had layoffs in the 70s, massive layoffs, and yours, I
think, was one of the firstclasses that they rehired people

(13:32):
.
Right, you said that, Madison.

Speaker 2 (13:39):
Square Garden was packed with a graduation
ceremony and that Right.
So the class before me I'mreally not quite sure, but I
think the layoffs or the hiringwas in 77.
Ok, and that was a group ofwomen, a smaller group of women,
but they were the pioneers forwomen like myself.
They were an extraordinarybunch of women that Right around

(14:04):
that time they were still sortof referred to as police matrons
.
They were there really to guardfemales in custody or do a pat
down of a female.
You know they really laid thegroundwork for us.
They were the pioneers that I.

(14:26):
My hat goes off to them.
They were the ceiling breakers.
They were the giants.
I stand on the shoulders ofthose giants who paved the way
for us.
That group of women, you knowthey didn't sort of bring it,
not all of them, some of themdid.
But when that 82 bunch that Icame in, we knew we could push

(14:51):
the envelope a little more.
You know we sort of came inwith the guts, the glory and the
glamour.
We we could do that.
We were accepted.
We could do that.
We were accepted.
That's when police woman waschanged to police officer.
So we were starting to beaccepted.
It wasn't easy, even today.

(15:11):
I mean, it's not always easy,but it was good.
So yeah, the 82 class was thebig class.
There was the most females.
I mean, we were allowed to wearnail polish.
Then we were allowed.
You know, some somebody wasalways making a comment about it
.
You know, there was always menthat didn't care for it, but the
women we stuck together.

(15:32):
Um, there were a lot of menthat supported us we had.
It was a wonderful career.
You know, everybody has to putup with the trials and
tribulations, no matter what jobyou take, no matter what
ethnicity.
Maybe you're not tall enough,maybe you're not good enough at
what you do.
Um, but it was a, it was.

(15:54):
It was okay.
It was a big.
It was a big group of people,of diverse people, of all all
equalities, anybody's smart.
Some people got a hundred onthe police test, some people got
a 70 on the police test.
So we were in all the best copswhen we get out there.

(16:15):
But it was our experience andit was how much you wanted to do
.
I remember when I was assignedto the one 14th precinct, I was
just getting off of work, I wasstill in uniform, and it was
about 10 to midnight and we geta call that there's a four car

(16:36):
accident Got to go there.
It's changing of shifts, sosome people are already on their
way home almost, and we got outthere.
There was nobody there but me.
I was a rookie cop.
I was with another rookie,there was four cars, it was
pitch dark and it there was deadbodies all over the road from

(16:56):
the four cars not all, but therewas four dead bodies and it was
pitch dark and pouring rain.
What do you do?
You assert yourself, you save,you help.
These people are looking at youfor protection.
Oh my God, my savior's hereThey'll never forget you.
They didn't care if you were afemale or a male.

(17:18):
Help, all they wanted was help.
Yeah, those are the kinds ofinstances where the guy that
you're working with that mayhave had trouble with women on
the job or coming on the job, henow just realized, oh my, this
was wonderful.
Hey, you did a good job and I'mgrateful.
Everybody should be gratefulfor each other.

Speaker 1 (17:40):
So this was.
I think two TV shows that had alot of influence on women were
Police Woman with AngieDickinson and Hunter, and the
show Hunter because you had aHunter's partner was a was a
woman partner detective and Ithink that that changed
everything in the early 80s.

(18:01):
As far as working, you know, onthe job with women, like today,
I know with the Marshal Servicewe had probably 10% women back
then.
Today, in federal lawenforcement they're very close
to 50% now.

Speaker 2 (18:18):
Oh, wow.

Speaker 1 (18:19):
You know it's a lot different and you're talking a
span of you know, 30, 35 years,that this has really changed
tremendously.
You know.

Speaker 2 (18:31):
It's changed tremendously and I don't want to
say it like this, but it's myjob.
It was your job.
Whatever I take to my job, I'mgoing to do the best I can, and
that's all anybody ever wants todo, whatever it is that they do
.
Whether you're a firefighter, anurse, a doctor, a mom, a dad,

(18:53):
you want to do the best you can.
So, as the men did when thewomen would come in, we did our
best.
I was proud.
I felt I was doing a serviceand I was living up to the
standards of how my familyraised me to be a good person,
to love the police, to beinvolved, to do the best you can

(19:14):
, no matter what job it is thatyou take.
I was very happy to be in thatposition.
I grew up with I'm the baby.
I have two older brothers, um,so I grew up as a little bit of
a tomboy.
I still got a tomboy in me, um,so it was easy for me to, you

(19:35):
know, flip flop between do I begentle on this one or do you?
You know, sometimes you'rerough and tough and sometimes
you have to be gentle.
Men have the same quality.
Maybe they're afraid to say it,but men can be very gentle and
men have to be tough.
Women have the same, we havethe same faucets.
We have the same triggers soyour brothers are.

Speaker 1 (19:55):
There's any other family members in law?
Law enforcement in your?

Speaker 2 (20:01):
family wow no, I was the no, I was the first.
When did you?

Speaker 1 (20:06):
know when?
Did you know when you went toNew York that you wanted to do
this?
Or you said you filled out anapplication and paid $10.
That's a great story, yeah.

Speaker 2 (20:17):
Yeah, it is a great story.
It's just one of those things Iremember.
Once I became a cop I said Ican't believe I'm.
You know I'm.
I got to New York, I achievedwhat I wanted to achieve and now
I'm.
I became a police officer.
My girlfriend had said youalways wanted to be a cop.
When you were little you usedto play cops and robbers.

(20:39):
You don't remember that I youknow what.
I always admire police and Ihave to be honest with you.
Moving to New York City, nypd,nypd, Blue I mean, I'm going to
brag about New York City.
You know it's the greatestpolice department in the world.
Of course I wanted to jointhose men and women doing that.

(21:01):
So I knew when he handed methat application, this is
another guy in my way helping meto get to where I want to get,
just like that woman at thePlayboy Club.
That said, are you sure you'reready?
You know, do you sure you wantto go to New York?
That's for tough people and I'mgoing that's for tough people

(21:29):
and I'm going.

Speaker 1 (21:29):
Who are you talking to?
You know, yeah, when you when,when you started you were a
patrol person and then youstarted, I guess, what we would
normally say plain clothes,doing special undercover
assignments worked your waysuccessfully and gained the rank
of detective that was sotypical of New York, but it was
unique for a woman to have thathappen.

(21:52):
Did you find that when you didthese undercover assignments,
the men were overprotective,sometimes with you, or they
treated you as an equal, orthings like that?
I mean, I've worked withundercover agents who are female
and sometimes men get in theway and they're overprotective

(22:12):
and that's not to your benefit.
If everybody's treated as anequal.
You understand what I'm tryingto ask you.

Speaker 2 (22:19):
Yeah, I know exactly what you're saying.
I find that in these specialtyunits, what you're saying, I
find that in these specialtyunits, the detective bureau, uh,
or the um narcotics, we arethere as equals.
Uh, the undercover has a littlebit of the more dangerous of
the job.
We don't always will kill.
Uh, you know, uh, a hearingdevice for our backup team.

(22:44):
Most of the times you don't, atstreet level, buy and bust.
I need them and they need me.
I need to make the buy and Ineed to know they're behind me
and they need to know that fortheir supervisor they're
protecting the undercover, Causeyou know we make the buys and

(23:05):
we arrest the bad guys.
We don't as undercovers.
I remember one time in ManhattanSouth Narcotics I didn't work a
lot of the big cases, Usuallymore of the Spanish guys did.
There was a lot of people inSpanish or maybe some.
I just didn't.
I had red hair at the time.

(23:26):
I stuck out too much.
My boss used to yell at me andsay put a hat on that head,
Cover that hair up, will you?
But I remember going out on theset and our set was pretty
tremendous.
They would go out to a set, anarea where we do our buy and
bust and they would scope it outfirst and we didn't just go out

(23:50):
there and randomly try to buydrugs from somebody.
They were out there for a while, for a couple days, couple
weeks, and they saw who, whattime they came out, who does
what, where the guy stands, andthey would come up, they would
tell me not all the time, butthis particular one go by from
the guy in the green shirt, inthe white jacket.

(24:11):
We'd get that on a radio whileI'm sitting in a car with New
Jersey plates on the side street, like 43rd and 8th Avenue,
something like that.
So I'd get out of my car atthis particular one.
I go out there and I see theguy and it's the guy that I
bought from two times before.

(24:32):
So we know that eventually wewere working ourselves up to a
bigger buy.
You know where's the big stuff,Where's the pile of cocaine.
So of course my backup teamalready knew where this guy
lived, just in case he invitedme up, Cause at the time they
come out and they usually selllike about blocks away from

(24:54):
their home.
So he comes up and he gives methe old nod and I give him the
nod and then he goes like thisand I'm following him a couple
blocks.
Now I already had a signalbetween me and the backup team,
the investigators, like if I wasto go something like this, it's
like I'm in trouble or we had atime if I wasn't out in 10, 15

(25:19):
minutes, whatever the time was.
So this particular time theysaw and I knew they had an
eyeball on on me and they weregoing to follow me because I
wanted to make the buy.
You know you want to be alittle bit of a success story
too.
So I followed him.
A lot of people don't do it ordon't want to.
That's why they don't getinvolved in in the narcotics

(25:39):
division.
But I followed him, got up tohis house.
He had another woman in thehouse there and there was a
little baby in the house andthere was a mound of cocaine on
the table mound of it and theyhad packs over here and he
wanted me to try a little bit.
And I said I'm not going to trythis stuff and they always want
to test you to see if you're acopper.

(26:00):
Now I said no, I just don'twant to do it.
I mean you got to trust me.
So he says I trust you, Let meshow you how much I trust you.
And he gave me his baby to hold.
He says you see, I trust you.
Now I'm wondering okay, now I'mholding this baby and I know my
clock is running down Any minute.

(26:22):
These guys are going to breakopen the door.
Come on, guy, let's do this by.
I says, Okay, I got the baby.
Or you get busy there.
I got to go back out, I got toget out of here.
I mean, people are looking forme.
And he says, yeah.
He says we're gonna do.
We're gonna do.
The baby likes you, the baby,the baby likes you.
And he's taking his time.
He took the time so long that Iknew any second the door was

(26:44):
going to be broke down.
Boom, the door gets broke down.
The guys come in, Of course.
They take the baby, give thebaby to the woman she goes to.
They lock me up as well,because they don't want to blow
my cover.
We confiscate all the cocaine,and that was one of those times
that I went oh God, all I wantto do is make this big buy.
We got this stuff.

(27:04):
We ended.
He ended up turning over andletting us know who his guy was.
So it did all work out in theend.
But yeah, being an undercover,we were all the same.
I knew they were coming for me.
There was no like the guysprotected me because I was a
female, because we had plentymale undercovers, plenty of them

(27:25):
, and they were good too.
And that's another whole,that's a whole tough thing
between an undercover male.
It's like, hey, what do youthink the female undercover has
a different kind of role?
Like I'm being submissivebecause I don't want to get hurt
out here yeah, no, that's agood point.

Speaker 1 (27:44):
Like I'm being submissive, because I don't want
to get hurt out here.
You know, yeah, no, that's agood point.
And did you, was this like onthe job training for you?
I mean, did you go to aspecialty school?
Or they just said okay, diane,this is how we do it, this is
what you're going to do.
Buenas suerte, good luck.

Speaker 2 (28:08):
Is that what it was like?
Good luck is that?
Well, who's alike they?
They tell you if you're, if youcan be an actress or an actor,
you can do an undercover.
You got to do acting.
I mean you got to, you got toplay the role.
It's for your safety, it'sdefinitely for you.
Say, you can't like looknervous and you can't keep
looking and give up your backupteam, um.
So of course there is a.
There is narcotics training,but it's not on the street.

(28:29):
It's what can happen.
They tell you the worst of theworst, what can happen out there
.
Do you want, is this for you?
You're not always going to weara wire.
You're going to go out there.
Make sure you get a good scriptof the person.
Does he have white hair, blackhair?
Is he five, seven?
Is he fat?
What's he what?
One thing that you'll alwayswant to do is get their shoes,

(28:50):
because they can always changetheir shirt in case the cops
come.
They usually don't change yourshoes.
Always try to get their shoes,um, or if they have a mole on
their face or something likethat, um, so the training is
pretty basic, but you, but youhit the nail on the head.
It's pretty much on the streettraining.

(29:10):
Yeah, you learn it and you getbetter as you go on.

Speaker 1 (29:15):
What was the most dangerous situation that you
were in?
It could be traffic stop.
It could be UC work.
It could be traffic stop, itcould be UC work.
It could be domestics what'ssomething that comes to mind
where, like holy shit, I reallycould have got screwed up with
this.

Speaker 2 (29:35):
Well, a lot of the cases, car stops I mean car
stops are scary.
You know, I just read I thinkit dan bongino had rolled his.
He got stopped and he rolledhis, his, his, uh door was.
His door wasn't, no, his windowwasn't working.
So do you had they open thedoor and the cop is scared

(29:57):
because he's opened the door?
Just something simple like that.
Well, my, probably my, myscariest is is my being a first
responder for 9-11.
I mean, now there is where youdon't know if you're going home
at night, you don't know what'sgoing to happen next.
I was a first responder for the9-11 attack and I was also a

(30:20):
first responder for the 1993attack on the World Trade Center
.
I actually drove the chief ofManhattan, chief of Manhattan
detectives, into the hall underthe North building in the
parking garage where that vanwas that was supposedly had

(30:41):
explosives.
I remember seeing the van andseeing the explosives.
You know you never get immuneto the scariness.
I think narcotics was probablythe scariest because you don't
know.
You know these people are outthere and they know that there
could be cops.
They all have guns on them.

(31:01):
I go out there on the set innarcotics.
I don't have my gun on me.
I don't have any kind of wireon me, that's just the most
scariest time, especially atnight.

Speaker 1 (31:21):
Yeah, when you went to the detective bureau, what
kind of assignments did you getafter you left narcotics?
What kind of cases did you?

Speaker 2 (31:29):
work, 21st Street and 3rd Avenue they were.
I had all kinds of cases.
I mean, you name it.
You name it, the cases you had.
I remember going to a bar and aguy tells me that call this

(31:53):
number, somebody's been a victim.
He's afraid he only wants totalk to a female detective.
I said no, no, you tell the guyto call the office.
I'm not reaching out.
I don't know who this is.
Anyway, he eventually calls myoffice and he was a big
executive for a big law firm,well-known law firm.

(32:15):
He didn't want anybody to knowwhat happened to him.
He was in a bar and somebodyput a roofie in his glass.
He these people that put theroofie in his glass befriended
him and told him no, no, no,we'll take you home.
We'll take you home, whateverhappens.
Somebody did something to you.

(32:35):
It was actually these peoplethat did it to them.
Um well, they took him home andI?
You know how roofies go.
There's a time limit, there'slike a 28 minutes, and in that
28 minutes you're going to conkout, you're going to be totally
lifeless, you're not going toknow what's going to go on,
you're not going to see, you'renot going to hear, and then

(32:56):
you're going to wake up andyou're going to wake up, all
right.
Well, this is what happened tohim.
These people took him to theirapartment.
He woke up with his clothes offand they were, um, sexually
abusing him and filming it, andthey started calling him to

(33:17):
ransom him.
Um, he didn't want anybody toknow.
In fact, when he told me hesays you know what, don't, don't
make a report, don't make areport, I don't want it to go.
I know too many policedepartment.
I can't have my name.
I mean I had other cases, uh,the one good one that I have,
well, I mean, it's not that itwas good, but I always tell

(33:39):
people to listen when peopletalk.
And I was working in GramercyPark at the 13th Detective Squad
and I came downstairs and therewas this young cop on the TS,
the telephone switchboard, andhe kept hanging up the phone.

(34:00):
Hanging up the phone, and Isaid, officer, who are you
hanging up the phone on?
He's always.
This old man keeps callingevery night, calls every night,
and I says, well, how do you?
What does he say?
He says, ah, he wants me tocome there and help him.
He gives me some story thatthere's people sleeping on his

(34:20):
floor and he wants them out.
I said, well, do you know thatthere's any validity to it?
Do you know there's any truthto it?
He says, well, the guys fromthe four to 12 said they just
hang up on him.
I said, okay, do me a favor,next time this person calls,
give me his phone number, unlessyou have it already.
He had, they have it already.
So he gives me the phone numberand I call this person and the

(34:41):
guy says to me oh my goodness, Ican't believe you.
Finally calling, I knewsomebody would listen to me.
I said, well, I'll come overtomorrow because I'm working in
the morning.
He says to me don't come to me,I'll come to you.
So the next morning this personwith this very low voice has

(35:02):
long red hair and glasses and adress on it, it's.
It's not a guy, it's a woman,just with a very deep voice,
like a smoker's voice.
And um tells me the story whereshe got approached by an old
German friend of hers.
She's German, she's got a heavyGerman accent and she said this

(35:27):
guy, he needed a place to stay.
I let him sleep on my floor.
I told him you could stay there, but you got to be out in two,
three weeks.
I have somebody that I takecare of.
That's an invalid in anotherroom, which she did.
So the guy stayed there for two, three weeks and then she says
you have to leave and he wouldnever leave.
She says you have to go, youhave to get out of my house.

(35:50):
This woman is 83 years old.
The guy says give me a little,give me a little more time In a
couple more weeks.
She says I'll give you a couplemore weeks.
She wakes up one morning.
She comes out there there's awoman sleeping on the floor.
So now there's a guy and awoman there.
So this person's name is Hester.
Okay, hester says you have toget out of my apartment.

(36:13):
You have to get out of here.
We don't have to go anywhere.
We have no place to go.
Please let us stay there.
No, you have to get out.
Long story short, they didn'tleave.
They ended up having a fightback and forth, a physical fight
, where the woman who was on thefloor called the police on the
83 on Hester.

(36:34):
The cops show up and say hey,how long are you staying here?
They said I'm staying herelonger than four, I'm staying
here six weeks and I'm here fiveweeks.
And the young cop said well,you're here more than four weeks
, hester, you got to take him tolandlord tenant court.
That's the story she tells me.
So I said, oh my goodness, ifsomebody was staying on my floor

(36:57):
, my mother's floor, I'd begoing there helping them.
I said well, let's see what wecan do for you.
So she says you got to come atfive, 30 in the morning, because
they leave at six and they comeback at midnight when I'm gone.
Well, I took the first of all, Iconfirmed the situation and I
took the case to the Manhattandistrict attorney's Office who

(37:20):
wrote an arrest warrant for bothof them.
And we went in there and we didan arrest warrant.
We arrested the two people.
We took them in Junk that theyhad street people junk, they had
dirt on them, they had bugs onthem, they had dirt on them,

(37:46):
they had bugs on them.
Anyway, I got sued for, I think, two million dollars, for the
police department got sued.
I got sued and, um, we ended upgoing to court back and forth
for a long, long time.
They got convicted and then thewoman and I became friends.
She says I was the only personto ever listen to her and I said
well, you, well, you know,hester.
I mean, that's beautiful, youever need anything.
You call me and you know anyway, because it's a lot to go back

(38:08):
to every person that you evermeet.
Well, she kept calling me andcalling me, but then 9-11
happened.
The world went crazy.
Her and I lost touch.
I ended up leaving GramercyPark and going down to the first
precinct, the precinct where9-11 was in.

(38:30):
It's years later, it's four orfive years later and someone
says to me this guy keepscalling here, looking for you.
And I knew right away the guyagain because of the voice.
She says hello.
She says it's Hester.
I've been searching for you.

(38:52):
You left the other precinct.
I said Hester, I mean, it's along time ago.
You didn't want to talk to meanymore.
I'm not going to get into that,but there was a reason why she
didn't talk to me.
She's a pure racist.
And she saw me kissing one ofmy detective friends who's
African-American and in court.
And she says I saw you kissinga black guy.

(39:13):
I'm there.
I said so.
You know what?
That's why nobody likes you,because you're such a racist.
Anyway, she says I'd like to seeyou again.
I said I'm busy 9-11, we'redown here and everything.
She says I'm dying.
I want to keep in touch withyou.
I says, well, I'm retiring, I'mretiring in.
This was about a year before Iwas going to retire, or maybe it

(39:40):
was a couple of months.
Anyway, she says you're notgoing, you're taking me with you
.
I don't know anybody, I onlytrust you.
I says I'm retiring and I'mgoing to back to Wisconsin where
I live.
She says you're taking me withyou, I want to move with you.
Well, anyway, she ended upconvincing me to.

(40:02):
She was scared.
She was scared to death, scaredto death of New York, scared to
death of being.
Now she's 86 years old.
She says, please, I have no one, take me with you.
Well, I ended up being a friendof hers and I took her with me
here to Wisconsin.
She had the bedroom over there.

(40:28):
She ends up getting sick.
Quick, it was short, it wasn'ta long.
After that I ended up bringinga German doctor here who spoke
German to her.
She ended up screaming in themiddle of the night.
I remember walking in themiddle of the night when she was
screaming.
I said Hester, please be quiet,I have little kids.

(40:49):
I would walk in almost withnothing on, and she'd sit up
like this and look at me andshe'd say kill the little
bastards, kill them.
You need to come in here andtake care of me.
Oh she was.
Kill them, you need to come inhere and take care of me.
Oh she was.
Anyway, she ends up going, um,she ends up getting very sick.
She ends up being totallybedridden.
She kept falling out of the bed, she was on medicine and, um,

(41:14):
she ends up being um in-househospice.
It was just a matter of time.
And I remember saying to thenurses, because I became a cop
out here after I retired in NewYork, I became a detective here,
the first detective in town ofLisbon, the first detective in

(41:35):
the town of Lisbon.
And so I was running out towork and when I came back they
had already had a catheterhooked up to her and I said, oh
geez.
I said I wish I was alwayscurious how that gets hooked up.
I would have liked to have, youknow, walk me through.
That.
I says because somebody hadsaid to me one time Jeez, it's

(41:59):
funny that there's no picturesof Hester anywhere.
There's no pictures of her.
I said I thought maybe at onepoint she could have been a guy
and the three nurses looked ateach other and it, like a light,
went off.
And so then we looked inunderneath.
You could see a scar underneathher breasts where she had
implants had implants.
Anyway, she left.

(42:22):
I mean, when she died she lefta will to her family in Germany.
She left them a little moneyand the family wrote back to me
and said, geez, we didn't knowthat she had any money because
she borrowed thousands ofdollars for us years ago when
she had her sex change.

Speaker 1 (42:44):
What year was that?

Speaker 2 (42:47):
She had a sex change because she was a Nazi war
criminal.

Speaker 1 (42:55):
My God what year was this?
When was this?
When would they have a sexchange?

Speaker 2 (43:02):
2002, it was in 2000.
She had that 1973.
Wow, I believe it was 73.
She had the sex change.
I never knew it, even by thesize of her hands or the size of
her feet or her voice.

Speaker 1 (43:15):
She right.

Speaker 2 (43:17):
that was probably the only thing that would have
given it away.
But she had had breasts, shewore clothes.
I never even suspected it andI'm a detective.

Speaker 1 (43:28):
And she was a Nazi war criminal.
Do you know what she did, orany I?

Speaker 2 (43:32):
don't know anything.
I don't know anything.
I don't know anything.
I have a picture of hersomewhere here in uniform when
she was a German soldier.
But she was so paranoid whichalso fed into her paranoia when
she became 83 and 84, 85, thatsomebody was going to find her,

(43:58):
who she was and what she did.
God knows what she did.
I don't know what she did.
I would have never taken her inif I would have known Of course
, of course of course, right,yeah, that was that was.
There was another case that.
That's a very sad case.
I remember getting a phone callfrom a young Asian woman.

(44:22):
She spoke very good English,but her mother spoke no English
at all and she had just turned18.
And she says listen, I'm 18.
I'm an adult, I can leave thehouse.
I've been stuck in my mother'shouse.
I'm not allowed to go outunless I'm with my mother.
I need to leave the house.
I need you to come here andsave me.

(44:44):
My mother will not let me out.
She says I am a victim in thishouse here.
So we as detectives go to thathome and there is a sweet little
Asian woman and you could.
She's just frantic that herdaughter's going to leave.
You know she's in America.
She doesn't know the language,she doesn't know how to get

(45:07):
anything.
She's afraid.
Who knows what her backgroundwas about, why she's so afraid.
When you experience someonelike Hester, you think they have
a background.
There's a reason.
We convinced the mother throughthe daughter interpreting the
language.

(45:27):
She can go.
She's 18, you can't hold herhere.
I mean, you can't hold it ashostage.
So the mother, the daughter'scrying, but she says mom, I love
you in her language and shesays I have to go.
So she left and she was able toleave.
The mother was crying.
You saw her broken heart.

(45:49):
It was about three days later.
We got another call from thedaughter.
The daughter says I'm trying toget into my mother's house and
I can't get in her house.
I don't know what's wrong.
She doesn't go out of the house.
So we ended up going there.
We ended up getting theemergency service unit to break

(46:10):
in the door and the mother hadhung herself and hung herself
situated so we couldn't get inthe door.
It was awful.
It was awful.
It's a very sad situation.
You know, you see the good ones, but you remember ones like
this.

Speaker 1 (46:30):
Sure, the good, the bad and the ugly right.

Speaker 2 (46:32):
Good, bad and the ugly Working down in Wall Street
.
It wasn't all white-collarcrimes, but I worked for Solomon
Smith Barney on cases.
I worked oh my goodness, heworked for the one big company
here wait a minute.
Where it happened?

(46:55):
Up on the 20th floor, a woman isgoing into the great big vault
and as she's going into thevault, the night security guard
is going around making sure allthe doors are closed and she
ends up.
He ends up closing her in thevault and she turns around it's

(47:22):
all on camera, camera.
She turns around and goes whatare you doing?
He can't hear.
He's got something on his earsor something like that.
He ends up um.
She ends up screaming there's aphone in there.
So she ends up calling, ends upscreaming there's a phone in
there.
So she ends up calling thesecurity to say come and get me.

(47:44):
But he's doing his rounds.
She says you have to come andget me.
I have to pick up my son fromschool.
She calls again.
She calls again.
He never comes to get her andshe says if you don't come and
get, I'm going to pull thisalarm.
I'm letting you know in fiveminutes.
She calls again.
She calls again.
This is well before cell phones, well before anything like that

(48:06):
.
Well, she ends up pulling thatalarm, but what it does, it
releases all of that smoke thatcomes down and just takes up all
the oxygen and you can see herdie on the tape.
You can see her die on the tape.
You can see her die on the tape.
This all comes down and theseare just terrible, terrible

(48:27):
stories.
I mean we, you know you gothere to help people.
You thought these are realstories, just like this woman
put the with the two people onthe floor, but it turns into a
crazy story at the end and I'msure you have tons of story
working for all that you did.

Speaker 1 (48:45):
Yeah, I couldn't keep a job, but that's beside the
point.
That's what.

Speaker 2 (48:49):
I'm talking about?
Oh God, you know everybodythat's a cop, whether it's
Milwaukee, whether it'sCalifornia, all our men and
women in blue, all thedetectives, first responders,
they all have stories and we canrelate to them.
I remember a funny story thatwe all went someplace and we

(49:11):
picked up the DOA down onarrival, the DOA's ring.
I says well, somebody's got totake this ring because I'm not
going back, we had to put itsomeplace where you know we had
a voucher.
And somebody goes like this,and it hits my hand and it goes
all of the.
We don't know where the ringgoes.
Now there's four of us standingthere.
We're all detectives, we're alldressed up.

(49:33):
We're in one room, there's nota lot around, and everybody
bends down to try to look for itand everybody comes up without
it.
I say come on, guys, somebody'sgot to have this ring.
I don't have it.
I don't have it.
Nobody's leaving this week.
This ring is in this room.

(49:53):
I got to find this ring.

Speaker 1 (49:56):
He says I don't know where the ring is I don't have
the ring, I don't have the ring.

Speaker 2 (49:58):
I says come on, guys, if the joke is over, give me
the ring.
Then I look, and this guyacross from me has got cuffs in
his pants.
Check the cuffs of your pants,boop.
It was right in the cuff of hisfeet Right how we think, we
start to have a broader way ofthinking.
Or the guy that runs down thealleyway and then we're all

(50:19):
running after him and we can'tfind him.
He's right here.
It's fenced in, there's nowhereto go.
There's nowhere to go.
He's quick enough to run underthe car and grab on underneath
like an upside down frog.

Speaker 1 (50:33):
Right.

Speaker 2 (50:38):
Just like that.
Amazing how you start as adetective, how you start to
picture every little thing right.
Yeah, it was a great job.
I mean, in addition to you knowthe crimes that I did.
I mean I had lunch with JohnnyCochran and Freddie Prince and
Chuck Lowe.
Remember Chuck Lowe?
He was the.
He played Maury in theGoodfellas.

(51:00):
He lived at 110 Hudson Street,which is right behind the first
precinct.
Um, I met people like um, oh mygod, we had.
Well, rudy giuliani was our,was our mayor at the time.
I did some work for beau deedle.

(51:20):
You all know beau deedle.
Yes, investigator, nice privateinvestigator, actor,
accomplished nypd guy.
Um, yeah, I got my bachelor'sdegree while I was working there
.
I was promoted to second gradeAgain.
I was a first responder.

(51:41):
Yeah, I have three grown sons.
They're all 25 years old.
I have twins and I adopted aboy later on in life.
So I'm pretty busy Right now.

(52:02):
I'm the sole proprietor of DLMInvestigative Services.
I conduct investigations, Iperform surveillance.
Um, I conduct investigations, Iperform surveillance.
Uh, I have over 15 workersassigned to the republican
national convention that's beingheld here july 15th, 16th, 17th
and 18th at the bucks home,pfizer forum, home of the

(52:25):
milwaukee bucks.
Um, I also work surveillancefor a company called Interstate
Reporting Company ProfessionalInvestigations.
I'm a court bailiff for a courtin the city of Waukesha.
I'm a member of the PauleyProfessional Association of
Wisconsin Licensed Investigatorsand a member of the National

(52:50):
Council of Investigation ofSecurity Services.
I keep myself a little busy andright now I'm a member of the
Optimist International, havebeen for 21 years.
My title is governor governorof the Swiss district, that's
southern Wisconsin, and my themeis, of course, respect for law.

(53:14):
And on the back is the OptimistCreed.
It's a beautiful creed and whatwe do is we are friend of the
youth, we give scholarships andwe support the youth of America
and all around the world we haveOptimist Clubs.
So that is me.

Speaker 1 (53:37):
I have some more questions.
Yes, packers, jets or Giants?

Speaker 2 (53:45):
Packers.

Speaker 1 (53:46):
I kind of figured that.
Did you ever support any of theNew York teams?
Or you were loyal to the Bucs?

Speaker 2 (53:52):
Oh, my goodness Of course.

Speaker 1 (53:54):
And the Braves, the Milwaukee Braves and Brewers.
Yeah right, those are yourteams, right?

Speaker 2 (54:00):
Those are my teams.
Don't forget, John Matuszak wasmy cousin, so I was always an
Oakland Raiders fan.

Speaker 1 (54:06):
Yes, yeah, I'm glad you brought that up, because
that would be the one exception.
What about when the Raidersplayed the Packers?

Speaker 2 (54:14):
Who would you root for?
Yeah, well, when the Raidersplayed the Packers, when my
cousin was alive, I was for theRaiders, but I was a big fan of
the guy that we lost, that hadbeen there forever and ever and
now we just lost him.

Speaker 1 (54:34):
Oh my, my goodness let me have a brain freeze right
now from the packers, or fromthe packers quarterback oh, bart
star no, after that most recentdating myself now, oh, um, now
I'm having, now I'm having thebrain fart.
Uh, not Brett Farah?
Um, oh, the one that used todate.

(54:54):
Danica Patrick Um, yeah,they're going to the Jets.
He got hurt on the first playlast year.

Speaker 2 (55:01):
Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes.

Speaker 1 (55:03):
Aaron Rodgers.
Aaron Rodgers.

Speaker 2 (55:06):
Aaron Rodgers yes, aaron Rodgers.
I was a big fan of AaronRodgers.
I liked his controversialpersonality.
That never bothers me if you'recontroversial.
I've been always considered tobe a controversial person.

Speaker 1 (55:22):
I've been considered a straight arrow my whole career
, non-controversial.

Speaker 2 (55:25):
Oh, yeah, right, Okay , you can tell right yeah, right
, yeah.
No, you know what?
There's nothing wrong withbeing controversial.
It just means that you branchout a little.
You're not afraid to branch out.

Speaker 1 (55:39):
What's the one case that you wish you had solved
that you think about?
Everybody has one.
I had one recently that I wasfortunate to, a lady that I
locked up in 1994 with the DEAand customs and 30 years later
she got released and I advocatedfor her release.

(56:00):
So there's always that one casethat you had that you didn't
solve or there wasn't resolutionon it.
Do you have one of those cases,diane?

Speaker 2 (56:12):
I have one that bothers me to this day.
It actually made the front pageof the Daily News.
Bank of New York was on thefront, and I hope everybody gets
in touch with me to help me outwith this one.
So at the time I received aphone call from a woman,
soft-spoken woman.
I was a detective assigned tothe first precinct, lower

(56:34):
Manhattan, and she says to me Iwent to my safe deposit box and
there's $500 missing.
I said wow, so I end up callingBank of New York security and
asking them not to bad mouthanybody.

(56:57):
But they just sort of thoughtyou know there are people that
say things like that, right, andthat this woman has called,
she's been calling.
I was newly assigned to thefirst precinct, so it was my
first time receiving that phonecall.
But evidently she has beenalerting the detectives or

(57:17):
whoever for a while.
So I had said well, how do youknow?
And again, going back to thatcase on the phone, I'm a
listener.
I said, well, I would like totalk to this woman.
Well, what I do is I meet withthe woman.
She tells me the story.
It was her dowry that was inthere.
She doesn't go there.

(57:38):
When she went there, shecouldn't believe it was gone.
Now, safe deposit boxes, a lotof them work with two keys your
key and the bank's key and theyhave to be inserted one at a
time or they both have to do thejob for that to open.
When I went to the bank in NewYork and I went downstairs in

(58:03):
their vault, I couldn't believe.
It was hard for me to believethe story that this woman would
be able to get up there and takethe money out herself or lie
about this, because it was wayon top.
You had these ladders that wentside like this and they went up

(58:27):
and you went all the way to thetop.
Somebody had to go up there andget her box out, bring it down.
The ladder use two keys to getit.
So while I'm there, I'mwatching and there's a young new
security guard in charge andhe's helping somebody over there

(58:50):
with their security box.
And then I left.
I just saw how it worked.
I called the locksmith because Igot the report that the
locksmith had changed 10 locksin the last three weeks of these

(59:14):
safe deposit boxes.
I says what's going on?
He says I never seen anythinglike it.
He says, all of a sudden, allthese things are breaking.
I said well, who knows you'rethere?
He says I just go down there.
I said you mean there's no signin.
Nobody knows you're there.
He says I just go down there.
I said you mean, there's nosign in.
Nobody knows you're there.
Nobody knows who are youreporting to.

(59:36):
He says well, there's thesecurity guard that's in charge
of the safe deposit boxes.
I says are they broken?
He says well, he tells methey're broken, I go down there
and I fix them.
I said are they broken?
He said I can't see how allthese break at the same time.

(59:56):
So I go back to the Bank of NewYork, I go downstairs and it's a
little busy.
It's New York.
It's even busy in the vault inNew York.
So while I'm down there, he'sworking on a safe deposit box
with an owner of the safedeposit box and I'm over here
talking to somebody who comes upto me and says you're that

(01:00:23):
female from the squad, right?
He says you know what?
I'm an honorable police officer.
I know so-and-so.
He said tell me all the nameshe knows.
He says I want to tell yousomething.
I think there's money missingfrom my box.
I said really?
He said yeah, I think there's$1,600 missing from my box.

(01:00:45):
So as I look over here, thisguy is brave, I become a witness
to this case, we end up doing asearch war.
We end up doing a arrest war.
We end up getting enough onthis young new security guard
who's in charge, who is okayingall of these safety deposit

(01:01:06):
boxes being open, Okaying all ofthese safety deposit boxes
being open.
We found out that he's got safedeposit.
There's a great big safedeposit box.
Not everybody Usually everybodyhas the drawer.
He's got a great big one inanother bank.
At the time there was adatabase that you could and find

(01:01:28):
out who's got a safe depositbox.
We went in there.
Here's all this stuff.
Here's all this bars of goldjewelry money cash diamonds.

Speaker 1 (01:01:45):
Just stuff that you don't even know who's.
You don't even know who's it isand which box it was in, Nobody
knows.

Speaker 2 (01:01:48):
You don't and do you want to like, really advertise
this?
Everyone's going to say, oh,that's my 500.
You know?
You know what?
We got a search warrant.
We went to the guy's house.
He's 18.
He just came back from, like,Hawaii, Puerto Rico.
He had clothes.
He had clothes all over his hisroom pants, shirts.

(01:02:10):
He was a millionaire kind ofdresser.
Under his dress, under hismattress, he had jewelry.
We confiscated everything.
We confiscated everything fromthe vault in the other bank.
And then 9-11 happens.

(01:02:31):
I wanted to follow this case.
I wanted to go on TV, I wantedto have all this stuff, all this
confiscated property.
I don't know what.
You know?
That was lower Manhattan.
That was Wall Street, Forget it.
Nobody was going in and out ofthere for two, three months and

(01:02:54):
then I retired.
It was my 20 years.
My retirement date was January25th, so I couldn't know what
happened to him as far as whatwas his penalty.
What did he get?
I don't know.
It bothers me to this day.

(01:03:16):
All those people he said to mewhen I interviewed him he said I
said how could you take allthese things?
How could you not feel good?
How do you do something likethis?
Who raised you?
Where do you get this idea?
You do something like this?
Who raised you?
Where do you get this idea?
He says.
To tell you the truth, when Isaw these people walk in and

(01:03:37):
they were this is how young hewas, they were 50 or 60 years
old I figured they're going todie.
They'll never be back here.
50, 60 years old that's howyoung he thought that people
don't usually go, maybe one,maybe five years, I mean, I I
don't know how often people goto safe deposit box.

Speaker 1 (01:03:59):
I don't have one I can answer that a little bit on
a personal level.
Uh, my mother lived to be 95and and she had one.
She was a child of theDepression and they put stuff in
banks like that and I recentlyfound out that she had one and
I'm going to open it up when Iget back in the next couple

(01:04:25):
weeks and see what's there.
You know, it may be nothing, itcould be, you don't know,
because they were very.
People are very private aboutthat.
You know it was her box.
So this is a great story.
But go ahead, finish off on.

Speaker 2 (01:04:42):
Yeah, that is.
I just feel terrible that Icouldn't do more, for whosever
stuff this was.
I mean, there was so much morework that had to be done with
that case, Like go back to theboxes, but the bank was in there
, you know, Everything gotdestroyed.

(01:05:03):
That was right across thestreet from where Ground Zero
was.
I don't know what we could havedone, but certainly as an
investigative effort we couldhave put our heads together and
come up with something.
Going back to the bank,somebody, not everything, was in
records.
A lot of a lot was paper, paperrecords.

(01:05:25):
So I mean, I really don't know.
It just bothers me.
To this day and now that's along time ago, it's over.

Speaker 1 (01:05:37):
It's over.
It still bothers you.

Speaker 2 (01:05:40):
It bothers me forever .
Yeah, that was a sad one, yeah,well maybe that'll get resolved
.
Somebody will watch this and,you know, get an idea to reach
out to me and at least tell mewhat happened to the guy.
He's deep.
He would contact me.
I'd tell him it was terrible.
He must be going through guiltin his mind if he ever grew up.

(01:06:03):
You know, when you grow up andyou do things because you're
young and naive and you grow up,guilt sets in Maybe.

Speaker 1 (01:06:11):
I don't know, Maybe Some people that never happens
in their whole life and theyjust build on it, unfortunately.
But that's the reality,Mm-mm-mm-mm-mm.
But you have great stories andit's great to see that you're

(01:06:32):
still active and doing all this.
I enjoy it too.
And quite a career, quite avery diverse career.
You've really explained, Ithink, to any of the viewers
what it was like back then andwhat it's like now.
You know, it's a differentworld and it's hard.
It's hard to keep up, excuse me, with the changes that have

(01:06:56):
occurred in investigation andlaw enforcement.
You know we didn't have.
We didn't have cell phones, wedidn't have interfaced internet
to do backgrounds.
We didn't have all this.
Everything was hand search,everything was a file paper on
your desk up to here, you knowgumshoe, it was yes it's the

(01:07:19):
right way to describe that termthat was an old term for a
plainclothes detective wasgumshoe.

Speaker 2 (01:07:29):
Yeah, do you remember the days when you wanted to
arrest someone?
You got the phone number andyou stood outside the door and
you called it and you listenedIf you heard the phone ring.
Now everybody's got cell phones.
They're turned off.
They're from Atlanta, they'refrom you know walk, wichita,

(01:07:49):
kansas.
You don't need to have a phonein the house anymore.
Yeah, but again, like you said,with cell phones, with oh, my
goodness, I'm a big court buff,so I'm watching all these cases
on court TV.
A big Vinnie Palatin fan,everything they do is by cell

(01:08:11):
phone.
Where you were here, where youryour on-star car takes you, how
fast you were going, they goteverything.
They got everything for you.
You got to make sense of it,though you know I did take the
dignitary protection course andI had the opportunity to body
guard Johnny Depp, and I was theonly female take the dignitary

(01:08:31):
protection course and I had theopportunity to bodyguard johnny
depp and um.
I was the only female I wasonly female at the time in the
um, in the security team.
He's he's as nice then as he istoday, and I say he's nice
today because I watched him onthat horrible trial that he went
through.
But he came up to me and hesaid I want to thank you for

(01:08:55):
today, I want to shake your handand I want to thank you for
today.
That was in Studio 54.
He was having a party.
Yeah, the days of New York City.
The days of New York CityBodyguarded the Pope, john Paul
II, president Clinton, but thatwas New York.

(01:09:19):
Anywhere you went in New York,you were surrounded by some
famous person.
They're all over the place.
They're like cockroaches.

Speaker 1 (01:09:27):
That's a good way to refer it to some of them and
that.
But it's been a real pleasureto meet you and a great career
as a pioneer in women in lawenforcement and investigations
and, like I said, it's adifferent world now.

(01:09:48):
It's it's changed, the you knowfrom the matron.
Now I'm glad you brought thatup.
I remember the badges that wehad in the police department.
They said matron, you know amatron.
I don't think too many of thelaw enforcement females of today
would like that title, but thatwas the reality Exactly.

Speaker 2 (01:10:10):
It was the reality Exactly.
It was not only a term, it wasa derogatory term for the woman
who wanted to take that stepinto women in policing.
Well, now we're all officersand I'm very happy about that
and I salute to the men in bluethe men and women in blue every

(01:10:31):
single day for what they aregoing through in today's world.

Speaker 1 (01:10:36):
Yes, yep, certainly different.
Again, diane, thank you verymuch for coming on the show and,
like I said, I look forward totalking to you soon and good
luck with the convention.
I'm sure you'll have your handsfull next month with that.

Speaker 2 (01:10:56):
Thank you.
It was my pleasure to meet youpersonally.
I know we spoke several timeson the phone in regards to this
and I'll be sending you one ofmy postcard, one of my bookmarks
.

Speaker 1 (01:11:09):
Oh, please do yes.

Speaker 2 (01:11:11):
Yeah, You're going to text me your address okay, yes,
I will Thank you so much.
All right, and good luck to youand thank you for bringing the
men and women on this show.
It's a great idea that you havehere, yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:11:23):
It's the whole system it's going to like.
We have people that are goingto be on here on all spectrums.
You know we're going to havepeople that served life
sentences and we're released.
We're going to have careerpolice yeah, it covers,
everything, you know.

Speaker 2 (01:11:40):
Good, good good.

Speaker 1 (01:11:41):
Yeah, so it'll be informative at least to the
audience and to everybody elsethat works in the system.

Speaker 2 (01:11:48):
So again, thank you, yeah, and I saw Go ahead, thank
you, and I saw that you'rehaving somebody that I worked
with on Stu Friedman.

Speaker 1 (01:11:55):
Yes, I had.
I had Ralph on Ralph's alreadybeen on, oh, okay.
Yeah, Okay, and Stu is scheduledand that he'll he'll be on and
he's just got a new book out andseems everybody in New York
that was on the policedepartment writes books.
I mean, mine was written by aformer New York City police and

(01:12:20):
that.
So it's good to hear about whatwe would call the challenging
area of law enforcement whenstreet crime was at its highest
and it was, you know, back inthe 80s.
I know today it gets morepublicized because of the mass
media that we have now, but itwas pretty bad back then too.

(01:12:44):
You know.
It's just a matter of control,Go ahead.

Speaker 2 (01:12:49):
But if you were on the street more times than not,
civilians would be helping you.
They wouldn't chime in and beatyou up, like what's going on
today, or throw water at you.

Speaker 1 (01:13:03):
Or hold up the cell phone and not help.

Speaker 2 (01:13:06):
Or hold up the cell phone.
I'm not doing it.
I'm not doing it.
Yeah, I'm glad.
The cell phones, I'm not doingit, I'm not doing.
Yeah, I, I don't.
I'm glad the cell phonesweren't around in my days.
Um, all of us are um, but yeah,it's a whole different world.
It was rough and tough, but youknow, it was a happy time.
Back then there was a lot ofpeople, oh, everybody was on the

(01:13:26):
streets.
It was okay.
It was a bad guy on the streetsso they did something wrong.
But it's just more dangeroustoday, so dangerous.
Yes so sorry about it.

Speaker 1 (01:13:36):
Well, let's hope it changes shortly.
So I'll leave it at that.
Thank you again.

Speaker 2 (01:13:43):
Diane.
Cheers to you, Same to you.
Thank you and cheers to you,sir.
Thank you Appreciate it Overand out Ple.