Ep 20: Robert Almonte - Policing Border Challenges and Combating Cartels

This episode we welcome the esteemed Robert Almonte, a veteran with decades under his belt and a wealth of experience to share. From his beginnings at the El Paso Police Department to his impactful tenure as the U.S. Marshal for the Western District of Texas, Robert offers a riveting exploration of the highs and lows of a career dedicated to community safety. Prepare to be inspired by his journey from patrol officer to deputy chief, and eventually leading the Lone Star Fugitive Task Force, where his leadership made a profound difference.

Dive into the intricate realities of policing in border towns like El Paso, where unique challenges shape the landscape. Robert provides a candid look at issues faced by officers due to proximity to the Mexican border, including the pressures of shift work and the complexities of undercover operations. He sheds light on the rise of gangs like the Tren de Aragua and their connections to Mexican cartels, emphasizing the urgent need for effective training to combat these threats. Through stories of both peril and progress, this episode unpacks the multifaceted nature of law enforcement.

Join us as we also discuss Robert's reflections on the broader implications of drug trafficking, corruption, and the evolving gang landscape in America. From the influence of notorious figures like Pablo Escobar to the heroic story of Kiki Camarena, we explore the far-reaching impact of these elements on law enforcement. Stay tuned for insights into upcoming events like the International Summit for Mexican Cartels and Gangs, where experts are coming together to arm officers with the knowledge they need to face modern-day challenges.

Produced by: Citrustream, LLC

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Today we have another session of Justice, then
Justice.
Now I'm honored to have today'sguest on with a very, very
distinguished law enforcementcareer and his expertise on
crime and a current focus thathe's teaching across the country
to all federal agents and localpolice and he's in real demand.

(00:28):
So I'm honored to have him onhere, robert Almonte.
Robert is a distinguishedexpert, like I said on this.
He also served as the UnitedStates Marshal, which is my
first federal agency that I workfor, and as I joke around with

(00:51):
everybody, I couldn't keep a job, so I kept ahead of my
five-year background with theMarshals, customs, ice,
consulting with ATF and SecretService.
So what I'd like to do is startout by Robert giving his
background in law enforcement.
He's worked all levels and Ithink that our listeners and our

(01:17):
viewers will be very interestedas this is hot topics and also
working in the past andexperiences the best teacher in
law enforcement.
Thank you, robert, for comingon.

Speaker 2 (01:32):
Thank you, Toby.
It's an honor to be on yourpodcast.
Thank you for thinking of meand inviting me.
It truly is an honor.
Thank you so much.

Speaker 1 (01:40):
Thank you.
Can you start out and tell uswhat I always ask the first
person what got you interestedin law enforcement with your
background?
Well you know to be honest withyou.

Speaker 2 (01:52):
I became interested in becoming a police officer
ever since I was in high school.
That was just something Iwanted to pursue.
I mean, the draft had justended while I was in high school
and of course you know, had Ibeen called there's no doubt I
would have served, but I justwanted to become a police

(02:14):
officer there with the El PasoPolice Department and serve my
community.
So as soon as I was eligible Itook the exam and, by the grace
God passed the exam and became apolice officer and I was very
fortunate and blessed to haveserved 25 years with the El Paso

(02:35):
Police Department Just a greattime.

Speaker 1 (02:39):
Yeah, I'm sure you got a lot of stories and anxious
to hear that, and so can youtalk a little bit about that,
what you did with the El PasoPolice Department, and we'll
start with that.

Speaker 2 (02:54):
Yeah, I actually joined in 1978, a long time ago
and I guess that explains this.

Speaker 1 (03:04):
Why I looked away.
Way that I look.
I joined in 76, so you know,you don't have the white hair
like I do.

Speaker 2 (03:13):
but you know, I think that those are I do have some,
but it's on the side there, butI think that's more genetic than
anything else.
But yeah, well, of course Ijoined the police department,
went straight to patrol, centralpatrol, which is right there by
the border, el Paso waterborder.
So I like to say that I grew upin the El Paso Police

(03:33):
Department.
I really did.
I mean you had no choice.
I mean I had culture shock,didn't know what to.
I knew what to expect, but Ijust didn't think it would be
what it really was.
I mean handling or respondingto murders and getting in fights
and all kinds of things,burglary.

(03:54):
So anyway, again I like to sayI grew up in the El Paso Police
Department.
I was actually born in El Pasoand I was raised just four
blocks away from the ElPaso-Juarez border.
So anyway, I worked patrol andthen, as soon as I could, I put

(04:14):
in to go to a specialized unitcalled the tactical unit where
they did everything.
They did a lot of plain-souledoperations focusing on
in-progress crimes.
So we did a lot of stakeouts atconvenience store, catching
robbers.
We followed burglars around,catching them in the act.
We were also the dignitaryprotection team.

(04:36):
So we worked with SecretService a lot.
We were also the riot team forthe El Paso police department.
So we did a lot of differentthings and I really enjoyed it.
And then I took the detectiveexam and passed that and became
a detective and I was veryfortunate to go straight to
narcotics right off the whip,which really doesn't happen very

(05:00):
often.
And then there it was a lot ofOJT, you know, learning how to
buy drugs, and my senior partnerhad gotten there like two weeks
before I did, so we wereteaching each other and you know
I had a lot of fun, actuallyhad a lot of fun working
narcotic, working undercover,and then promoted to sergeant

(05:21):
and with the El Paso PoliceDepartment.
When you promote you got to goback to patrol.
That's just the way it is.
You go back to patrol.
I went back to patrol.
I was uh working a patrol andthe sergeant in a in a shift uh
down in the uh in the valleystation and then after about a
year the captain recruited me toto oversee what he called the

(05:44):
impact team and I guess he likedmy experience in the tactical
unit and working narcotics so hewanted me to form a unit that
would also focus on in-progresscrime.
So we caught a lot of burglarsin the act and there's not a
better feeling than catchingthem in the act.
And then anyway I was able togo back to the sergeant.

(06:05):
I oversaw or the street crimeunit, then the major crime unit,
then I promoted to lieutenantand went back to patrol for 13
months and then they uh were.
Then they sent me back tonarcotics as a commander for the
narcotics unit and I did thatfor seven years and promoted to
captain, didn't have to go backto patrol.

(06:27):
I oversaw special investigationwhich included the gang unit,
narcotics unit, homicide crimescene, auto theft, repeat
offender program.
And then the last three yearsof my career.
I was a deputy chief and Ibasically oversaw the major
crime bureau, which is basicallyall the investigators.
I had about 300 people in mybureau.

(06:50):
So it didn't seem like 25 years, to be honest with you, and I
think the reason for that isbecause I worked with a bunch of
great, great people that did agreat job and the supervisor,
the administrator, administratorthey made me look good, they
did all.
They did all the work.
So I'm very, very, very blessedto be a part of that.

Speaker 1 (07:14):
Yeah, when you work with great people and you love
what you're doing from a youngage it's it makes a difference.
And you know, and everybodysees it, they know.
They know the guys that said,oh, I'm going to do my 20 and
retire and play pickleball and Ialways make fun of the guys.
I mean they're friends, but I'mnot ready for pickleball and

(07:36):
gardening.
I mean I will be but, you knowwhat that's like, it's in your
blood and that.
What were the changes in ElPaso Police Department when you
started to when you retired andeven now?
Now I've been to El Paso acouple times.
I was down there.

(07:57):
I worked for a company that hada contract with the National
Firearms and Tactical TrainingUnit for Homeland Security and I
got to go down there and seethe BORTEC operation for the
Border Patrol, which was amazingto me.
I mean it was great.
We hired the gunsmiths for them.

(08:17):
We hired, you know, everybodythat was supporting the firearms
program.
So I really really liked it andthat was my trip down there.
But how has it changed?
I mean, the department,obviously you have more
personnel, but what was thedifference since 1970?

Speaker 2 (08:40):
I think from the time I got there to the time I left,
I would say the biggestdifference would be the
technology, the change intechnology.
I would say the biggestdifference would be the
technology, the change intechnology, things that we just
didn't have when I was there.
I mean we the first unit Idrove around had a radio console
, but it didn't.
I didn't have a portable radio.
So you falling out in pursuitor something going down, you had

(09:02):
to do it real quick.
Falling out in pursuit orsomething going down, you had to
do it real quick, drop theradio, and then you're in
pursuit with no radio, hopingthat your backup gets there.
And then after a while then wegot the pop-out radio, which was
very good.
You can pop them out and carrythose with us and then you have
the mic up here now.
So that changed.

(09:23):
But one of the bigger changesto technology was computers,
because in my early days wewould write out our police
report in the police car.
We would write them out or,after a shift, type them in a
manual typewriter.
As far as the copy, we woulduse carbon paper.

(09:45):
I remember those yep and then,and then white out.
You know you had to have thatwhite out all the plenty of
white out.

Speaker 1 (09:53):
The young police officers think that's nail
polish.
Now but go ahead oh yeah, yeah,yeah.

Speaker 2 (09:59):
So you, you know what I'm talking about.
And then, uh, and then I, wethought it was a big deal when
they got us some electrictypewriters.
That was a big deal compared tothe manual writer.
And then, uh, the big changecame with the computer system
where now we're making thereports and going in directly
into the uh computer called Ibelieve it was called back then

(10:20):
the rms system, uh, and then, uh, that's evolved now, but I mean
that that's what was there whenI was there.
But I got to tell you a lot ofus were like man, we don't want
to do this, we want to go, weliked it the way it was.
Why are you changing it?
You know how that is.
But anyway, I got to tell youonce everybody started getting

(10:42):
used to the new computer systemand then when they would shut
down and they would tell, okay,shut down, you got to write your
computer by hand and everybodywas complaining.
So you know you get used tothat technology and how it helps
you and how it actually makesit easier for you.
And then now when I left, oractually I guess as a lieutenant

(11:04):
in patrol or captain I shouldsay that's when we started
getting the terminals in the carand you get dispatched by the
terminal and you could respondby doing that.
So those were the biggestchanges.
That was the biggest thing Isaw.
Change from the time I startedin 1978 to the time I left was
technology by far.

Speaker 1 (11:23):
Okay, all right, 1978 , the time I left was technology
by far.
Okay, all right, what was themost challenging assignment you
had?
You were, like I said, it'svery, very common in the police
department, like when I startedup in Massachusetts.
Guys would kid me and they'dsay, oh, you're on midnights,

(11:45):
you're not going to see days for20 years, and that was one of
the reasons that I left and Iwent to the marshals, you know,
as I would have been you know apatrolman.
We had a limited number ofdetectives.

Speaker 2 (12:01):
Well, I got to tell you and this is something that
changed also because I talked toyou know, as you mentioned, I
trained police officersthroughout the United States and
I'm always talking to themabout all kinds of different
things and we're talking aboutshifts.
You know, working your shift,as you mentioned, you work
midnights and I don't blame you,I would have left also and I

(12:24):
got to tell you I could neverhandle a midnight shift.
I just could never handle eventhe young officer.
I just could not sleep duringthe day and just get a few
minutes here, a few minutesthere and I hated that.
But the other big differencenow is the way the shifts are
set up.
Your shifts are either we havethe 410 in a lot of departments,

(12:45):
the 410 schedule, which wedidn't have, uh, we had that
when, when I left, when I wasstill there, we had that, but at
the patrol officer we didn'thave that.
But we our shift changed with,we changed, uh, we changed
shifts every 28 days.
That was rough because you know, right, when you're getting
used to uh the hours, thenyou're changing shifts again,

(13:08):
and I'll mention that to someofficers.
Matter of fact, last week I dida class at the uh, california
highway patrol headquarters insacramento.
We were talking about that andthey were commenting man, I
don't know how you did that, Igo.
Well, we did it because we hadto and and we didn't.
You know, things change, thingschange, but that was a big
challenge.
Is the shift change for me?
As far as assignments, you know,I have to say that all of them

(13:32):
had challenges, they all hadchallenges.
But I would say that workingnarcotics, working undercover,
was challenging and especiallythat a lot of that, we had to
teach ourselves how to do that.
And then working withinformants, because you're
walking a narrow line there whenyou're working undercover, and

(13:55):
then you're dealing withinformants that are not altar
boys and you're dealing withfemale informants.
It's very.
And then you're dealing withdrugs.
I mean, you're carrying drugswith you because you just bought
them.
So that was challenging for me,the undercover work, but also
the supervisor, you know,ensuring that I wasn't

(14:17):
micromanaging my detective butat the same time just not
letting them go out there andrun around and I'm not aware of
what they're doing.
And I think that's how a lot ofofficers or departments get in
trouble when a supervisor goesinto a unit and sees that this
unit is doing great.
I mean, they're kicking butt,they're making all kinds of

(14:39):
arrests, seizing dope andeverything.
So you've got a supervisor,comes in and says, well,
everything's running fine, I'mjust going to leave it alone.
That's a big mistake, you gotto make sure.
The reason I bring that upbecause there was actually an
incident down in Mission, texas,a few years ago involving a
narcotics unit they callthemselves the Panama unit and
they were really making a lot ofa great arrest, feeding large

(15:01):
amounts of drugs and money.
However, at the same time, theywere doing home invasions, they
were stealing drugs, stealingmoney.
They were even escorting loadsof drugs for the cartel and I
have to say that lack ofsupervision or inadequate
supervision was a contributingfactor.

(15:24):
So that's what I tell officersin my travels.
I talk about everything.
I try to give them advice to.
You know, not make the mistakesI did or other people made, and
I give this message to officers, detectives and supervisors.
So it is challenging whenyou're working a covert unit,

(15:45):
when you're working undercover.
There's no doubt about it.

Speaker 1 (15:49):
Yeah, yeah, it's a.
It's different when you're inmanagement and you know, I went
from being a fugitive street guyand then I yeah, it was my
favorite thing in the marshalservice when I joined and being
a supervisor is totallydifferent because you know you
get a lot of latitude and samething, same thing with customs.

(16:11):
I managed an undercoveroperation and initiated it and
you're dealing with theinformants.
I think those are those are themost problematic thing to deal
with, because, especially if youlike the informant, but he is
what or she is they are a sourceof information and they get
paid for it, or they're workingoff of beef.

(16:33):
You know that's the reality ofit.
It's one of two things they'rein it for the money or they're
in it to work off of beef thatthey have.
Yeah, what specific lawenforcement issues did you have
in el paso?

Speaker 2 (16:51):
uh, you know, as far as unique to the police
department there, Well, I think,because of our proximity to the
border, actually we're right onthe border.
We're right on the border withJuarez, mexico, so, and then we
also have Fort Bliss militarybase there.
So when you talk about thepopulation of El Paso, it

(17:14):
doesn't take into considerationthe population of Fort Bliss.
It also doesn't take intoconsideration the increase in
the population in El Paso.
We have all these people fromJuarez that are coming to El
Paso for business or to buythings.
It doesn't take that intoconsideration.
So our population, our numbers,are actually much higher than

(17:37):
what the number says and whatthe number says.
So we dealt with, whether wewanted to or not, we dealt with
immigration issues.
And what I'm talking about isthat, as we were the riot team,
I remember being in the tacticalunit we had chili pickers from

(17:57):
waters that were up on the topof the international port of
entry and they were blocking theuh, the bridges.
They were blocking traffic,which is, you know, horrible
because that impacts commerce onboth sides of the border.
Uh, so we went out there to todeal with that.
Uh, so we're dealing withinternational incidents that

(18:17):
most other departments neverhave to deal with.
So that that comes to mind andI remember also because they're
being right on the border.
We had a big problem with autotheft, a lot of cars being
stolen, taken and they gostraight to Juarez.
So you get these even if you seethem stealing cars you get
these pursuits and they go intoMexico and it's over.

(18:38):
That was another thing.
And then also a lot of homeburglaries there.
We had a lot of these peoplefrom waters, especially younger
kids, coming across and breakinginto homes.
So there's no doubt that usbeing on the border did impact
the crime situation in our city,no doubt.

Speaker 1 (19:00):
Okay, yeah, that's what I was getting at the car
chases.
You know you got to stop.
You can't continue with it andthe same thing with people
crossing back and forth and that.
One of the things I want to askyou is did you get into the

(19:21):
marshal service a little bit?
How that happened.

Speaker 2 (19:26):
Actually, I didn't see that coming Toby.
That was the furthest thingfrom my mind, it wasn't on my
radar.
And I remember I retired fromthe El Paso Police Department, I
was already teaching and I wason my way to, I believe, Seattle
to teach a class in Seattle.
And I stopped in Phoenix,checked my messages and I get a

(19:47):
voice message from the chief ofstaff, or deputy chief of staff
or Congressman, Sylvester Reyes,who was the congressman for the
16th congressional district.
So I call him back and he sayshey, the congressman wants to
recommend you to President Obamato become the marshal for the

(20:07):
Western District of Texas.
And just out of the blue, likethat, and I'm thinking well,
that sounds pretty good, butit's not a joke, right?
And he goes no, not a joke, hewants you to be the next
Marshall.
And I said well, I'm definitelyinterested.
Tell the congressman.
Thank you very much forthinking of me.

(20:28):
And you know, I know, I know itis not an easy thing to happen,
and if it happens I'll be veryhappy, and if it doesn't, I'm
just honored that he thought ofme.
And then the chief of staffsaid no, Robert, you don't
understand.
We uh we are going to get you inthere.
Next thing, I know uh, they didget me in there and I was
honored to serve uh six yearsthere, uh the us marshal or the

(20:50):
western uh district of texasthat's wonderful.

Speaker 1 (20:53):
What a way to cap that out.
Um, I know, when I I went towashington and, uh, my boss, the
uS Marshal, was 37 years oldand I was 29.
And I said to the MarshalService you do realize that you
have, you have were younger thanprobably three-quarters of the

(21:18):
office, which you know is alarge office.
And I know it was a shock to mebecause I was working in Los
Angeles fugitives.
And then I get the phone callhey, we want you to be the chief
deputy in Washington.
And I said, well, I applied forthe job and they're like no, so
I ended up moving to anothertime zone.

(21:42):
So what did you find with themarshal service?
Did you like it?
I loved it, I thought it wasgreat.
I wasn't the go-to guy with thejudges.

Speaker 2 (21:53):
That was my boss, yeah yeah, and that basically
was my role.
But I have to tell you overall,yes, I loved it.
I wouldn't trade that in foranything, but I got to tell you
it was different because, youknow, having been a police

(22:14):
officer, a powerful policedepartment, for 25 years and
then going federal, it wasdifferent.
I could see that there was adifference, a big difference.
So I had to get used to thatand that took me a time to get
used to that, including, youknow, disciplinary issues and
just different things like that.

(22:35):
So there were some things thatI didn't like that much, but I
really, overall, I liked it.
I wouldn't trade that in forthe world.
I worked with a lot of greatpeople.
I really did, and I'm realproud of our Fugitive Task Force
, lone Star Fugitive Task Force,because they really went after

(22:57):
the worst of the worst.
So I was involved and this isone thing I did is I did push
them to do a lot of roundupoperations, going after these
bad guys that got warned to keepthem off the street.
Because it was my belief andI'm sure you'll agree with it,
and studies have shown that alot of these people that are
dangerous and they're wanted outthere while they're out there

(23:18):
they're committing other crimes.
So let's get them off thestreets and let's put them in
jail.
That'll have an impact on crime.
So yeah, you know, six years wasgreat.
I had some pretty good.
Well, most of my chief deputieswere pretty good.
Of course, you know, I wasn'table to really choose all of

(23:39):
them the way I wanted to, sothat has something to do with it
also, but it was just differentthan being, let's say, a deputy
chief for the El Paso PoliceDepartment.
I could make things happen alot easier there as a deputy
chief than I could as a marshal.
But anyway, having said all ofthat because I'm not going to

(24:01):
come out and say oh yeah,nothing.
You know, the best time of myyear and actually, in all
honesty, the best time of my lawenforcement career was with the
El Paso Police Department.
But I was there 25 years,involved in so many different
things, but I would not grade inthose six years a United States
Marshal.
I mean, I got my commissionsigned by the President of the
United States and I'll alwayshonor that, cherish that and

(24:24):
again I can't thank CongressmanSylvester Reyes for thinking of
me and recommending me.
And not only that.
To be honest with you, I got tothank his brother, Jesus Reyes
Shuey Reyes, who's a good friendof mine, and actually how my
name came up was that thecongressman was having I don't

(24:44):
know coffee with his chief ofstaff and with his brother,
jesus Chuy Reyes, and I don'tknow who else was there, and
they were throwing names aroundfor different positions to send
to Obama and different namescame up.
Mine wasn't the first name thatcame up, and then Jesus Reyes
Chuy Reyes, the congressman'sbrother, said what about Robert
Almonte?
And the congressman looked athim and everybody looked and

(25:08):
they hadn't thought about it.
And then Chewy mentioned he'sworked hard.
He's done a good job.
He'll do a good job as marshaland he deserves it.
So the congressman tells thechief of staff call him and see
if he wants it.
So you know that's how thathappened.
Yeah, it was just how thingshappen.
You know, god puts certainpeople in front of you.

(25:30):
I really believe, plants thingsin people's minds, gets people
to say things, and I trulybelieve that you know there are
angels here that are among us,that are helping us and guiding
us to do things.
Again.
I never saw this coming at youat Marshall, but I mean, we made

(25:51):
a lot of arrests.
I don't know if they're doing alot of these roundup operations
, but we took a lot of badpeople off the street.
My guy did.
And then also, there's nothinglike having our state and local
officers as part of the taskforce.
You know I do that we would notbe a task force without our
state and local officer to helpgo after these bad guys.

(26:16):
So my hat goes off to not justthe deputy marshal that I work
with, but also all the state andlocal officers that were part
of the Lone Star Fugitive TaskForce.

Speaker 1 (26:27):
Yeah, I mean I was a child of the fist operations.
I mean that we had starting out, you know, in LA and in Florida
and you know I think there wereeight of them all over and that
was the camaraderie wasunbelievable among the state,
local and federal.

(26:47):
And also the rapport where youwanted to get things done.
Like the detectives that I hadwhen I worked on it were
tremendous they had.
They knew the area because alot of us came into these
operations and we're not fromthe area and the locals rule and

(27:09):
I always resented the federalagents that felt that they were
a tier above You're not.
You're not Because I'll tellyou right now, if you get in a
shooting or whatever, the peopleyou're going to rely on are the
street cops to come out andsave your ass.
That's just how it is.

Speaker 2 (27:28):
You know, you're exactly right, toby, and I saw
that when I was in the policedepartment, where I would have I
remember having DEA agentcoming to my office hey,
Lieutenant, I'm here, I'm new inEl Paso, but I want to work and
I think your guys could help melearn a lot.
I mean to me right when he saidthat I go, this guy knows what

(27:51):
he's talking about.
This guy's got a bright future.
He became a great asset to ourunit and then I had an IRS
criminal investigator.
Same thing came into my officehey, lt, I'm new in town, I want
to work, come on.
And actually he helped us outtremendously.
He became part of our stashhouse interdiction task force

(28:11):
and when we would hit a house,take down a stash house, the
dopers were more afraid of himthan they were of us, because I
mean he went after their assetslike a pit bull, because I mean
he went after their assets likea pit bull.
So any good federal agent isgoing to know the value of
working with the state and thelocals, especially the locals,

(28:31):
working with them and not talkdown to them and, you know,
treat them as their equals.
And that's something I tried toconvey also when I became the
marshal, because you know, Iremember where I came from and
fortunately that climate wasalready there, where they were
working really well with our,with our local partner yeah, I

(28:52):
mean I.

Speaker 1 (28:52):
I was a supervisor of asset forfeiture for customs
and and ice when I retired inMiami, and one of the blessings
that I had was the assetforfeiture fund, like when we'd
seize things asset sharing.
It was great to see a detectiverewarded with his chief of

(29:13):
police, whatever, and handing acheck over a ceremonial check
from the.

Speaker 2 (29:19):
SAC.

Speaker 1 (29:19):
I mean, that's just a great feeling for everybody,
you know.
It's bad guys that earned this,and now it's going to enhance
the law enforcement programs.
You know it was amazing.
Absolutely.

Speaker 2 (29:33):
Absolutely Toby.
There's no doubt about that.

Speaker 1 (29:37):
Yeah, Let me ask you about the gangs, because I know
that you're educating all theHaidas For the viewers.
That's the high-intensity drugtest force that's been created
now probably for 30, more thanthat, because I remember when it

(29:57):
first came out and you'regiving a unique perspective.
You have excellent speakers.
I'm glad we scheduled this weekbecause I know you're doing one
next week, so I appreciate that.
But if you could explain, I'dlike to go into this issue with
what is the gang problem today?

(30:19):
I mean, we all know what it is.
We watch the news.
We see the Venezuelan gangscoming out of.
You know the crimes and thatthey're coming here.
I'm familiar with Venezuela.
In my afterlife I worked withmany CIs down in Venezuela.
As a matter of fact, I'm notallowed in the country for

(30:42):
obvious reasons, but you knownow the gangs are coming.
Before it was the chavistas orthe politicians and the to
launder money and that, but nowwe're getting street crime.
So can you, can you talk aboutthe gangs and how they've
increased and what they're allabout, that they're well

(31:03):
organized?

Speaker 2 (31:05):
Yeah, well, certainly I will, but you know, I think
the first thing I need tomention is that your street
gangs there's more of them nowthey're pretty powerful and a
lot of them are doing businesswith the Mexican cartel.
Whether the gangs are out inthe street or if the gang
members are in prison, they'recalling the shot, so they're

(31:27):
selling drugs for the cartel.
They're also moving drugs forthe cartel.
They're also arranging to sendthe drug money back to Mexico,
as well as the firearms back toMexico, so they're involved in
security for the cartel.
That's been going on for awhile.
The gang that concerned me themost well, let me finish saying

(31:52):
that the gang that concerned methe most is the Grande Aragua,
that's the gang from Venezuelathat you mentioned.
They're here and they'reextremely dangerous.
They basically had taken over aprison there in Venezuela.
And let me explain to yourviewers and listeners.
First of all, cren is theSpanish word for train, de is

(32:15):
from or of.
Aragua is the name of a statein Venezuela, that's Fren de
Aragua, and they're an extremelydangerous gang when they were
in Venezuela and they're stillthere.
They're involved in all typesof crime murder, sex trafficking
, human trafficking, drugtrafficking you name it.
And then they have spread toColombia, ecuador and Peru and

(32:41):
now they're here in the UnitedStates.
Confirmed members are here inthe United States.
Matter of fact, just a week orso ago they shot one of the Fren
de Aragua gang members shot thetwo police officers NYPD
officers in New York City.
In January, a group of the Frende Aragua gang members jumped

(33:02):
some NYPD officers and assaultedthem.
They've also been involved inassaulting and almost killing a
passenger on a train in Chicago.
They've been involved in a sextrafficking case in Louisiana.
They committed a murder inMiami murder in Miami.
So I talk about my training isspecifically about the Mexican

(33:25):
cartel, but I talk about thegangs and what concerned me is
that a lot of police officersdon't know who this gang is.
They don't know what this gangis about.
So I give them a presentationon that gang just to bring their
awareness level up up, becausethis is all about officer safety
.
As a matter of fact, on July11th I'm hosting a two-hour

(33:49):
webinar just on the Fren deAragua.
This is for law enforcementonly.
So if you have any lawenforcement viewers or listeners
, they can go to my website,mexicanquartelorg, and they can
register.
It's a two-hour block and it'sgoing to be.
I'm going to be talking aboutthe history of Zendaya, their

(34:10):
migration to the United States,their criminal activities in the
United States.
I'm also going to go over theirtattoos as well as their hand
gang signs.
The deal is that they'reactually also in Chihuahua in
Mexico, which tells me they'rethere, and they're working hand
in hand with the Mexican cartel.
They're involved in humantrafficking.
Now, to do human smuggling fromMexico, you have to be doing

(34:31):
that with the cartels, or atleast with the permission of the
cartels, and paying them money.
That's how it operates.
So that's the gang thatconcerns me the most.
They are extremely, extremelydangerous.
Now the other gang that's beenhere for a while is going to be
the Mexican Mafia and based outof California.
We have a Mexican Mafia inTexas, but they're basically

(34:52):
different than California.
The one in California is morepowerful.
They've been around a lotlonger, started as a prison gang
, and then the subgroup ofMexican Mafia is going to be the
Sureños, and they're reallyspreading.
I mean there's cases of themout on the east coast in Georgia
.
They're spreading, they're allover the United States.

(35:12):
But the bottom line is that thecartels and the gangs are
working together, but which gangconcerns me the most?
Without a doubt, it's going tobe the Frenzy Ararua TDA.

Speaker 1 (35:35):
Okay, and what do you think is accounting for the
rise of them here?
I mean, what just connectionsin Mexico and the ability for
violent crime?
Obviously they're shootingpolice officers and I know that
that happens in Venezuela allthe time.
There's no respect for lawenforcement.
They have a huge corruptionproblem in Venezuela with that

(35:59):
and they call it, I think, inSpanish, colectivos and they
call it, I think, in Spanish,colectivos.

Speaker 2 (36:10):
Colectivos of individuals who run the barrios
down there.
Yeah, that's the same cultureyou just described in Venezuela,
exactly the same culture inMexico.
It's the same thing.
And when I train policeofficers, I remind them that
these dangerous cartel or gangmembers that are coming over
here and they have a history ofextreme violence in their
country, whether it's Venezuelaor Mexico, any other country If

(36:31):
they're beheading people orwhether they're torturing people
, cutting parts out, which iswhat they're doing when they
come to the United States, theydon't change personality.
We have them, they're here andthey're extremely dangerous as
far as what caused them to cometo the United States, quite
frankly, is going to be thesurge in the migration.

(36:52):
They're taking advantage ofthat.
They took advantage of that.
So they come in, they blend inwith everybody else.
They tell them they're fromVenezuela.
You know they're not reallydoing a great job of vetting
these people and, quite frankly,what's happening?
Because of politics, BorderPatrol has their hand tied, so
you know, they issue a piece ofpaper to that person and said OK

(37:14):
, you need to report back hereto court in a year or two years.
Well, they're not going to dothat.
So they came in mixed with allthese migrants coming in.
I got to tell you just in themonths of last September we had
more migrants coming fromVenezuela through Juarez, Mexico
and El Paso than we did fromany other country, including

(37:37):
Juarez.
So there's thousands andthousands of them here and
unfortunately, some of of them,many of them are going to be the
dangerous gang member.
So they cut.
That's how they got came here.
Why did they want to come here?
Because they see the unitedstates as the land of
opportunity and they're notsmart, they do their homework,
they talk to other people.
They want to do crime in in newyork because they know that,

(38:02):
even if they get arrested,they're not going to be jail in
jail very long to get released.
And that's exactly whathappened those migrants from
Venezuela that brutallyassaulted those police officers
in Times Square in January.
They were released from jailright away and then they headed
to California.
Why?
Because they know California isthe same type of environment

(38:22):
where, even if they do getarrested, the criminal justice
system in those states is goingto go easier on them as well.

Speaker 1 (38:33):
Do you think that you know that Maduro has emptied
his jails much like Castro didwith the Marietta boat lift,
that this is what's happeningtoo?
Is that they're?
I mean, I don't know the answer.
It certainly looks like it.
It certainly looks like thatToby.

Speaker 2 (38:54):
He'd rather have them go into other countries, and
they're in a lot of othercountries, not just the United
States.
And they're in Mexico Aconfirmed report that they
actually a big group of themstaying in the state of
Chihuahua there in Mexico.
They're in Colombia, peru,ecuador.
They're here in the UnitedStates.
We don't know how many are here.

(39:14):
And as far as the bordersecurity, I'm going to talk
about that a little bit, butunfortunately we got a lot of
dangerous people that have beenlet into our country because of
this migrant surge and becauseof us basically allowing them to
come in here.
And I know recently PresidentBiden enacted an order to kind

(39:38):
of limit the numbers of peoplecoming in here and, to be honest
with you, that formula is veryconfusing.
I heard somebody like DOJ and Icouldn't even understand it,
but the bottom line is thenumbers are still there, people
are still coming in regardless.
So that order did not stopanything and unfortunately this
is my opinion.

(39:58):
Unfortunately, even if we wereto shut down that border today
and say, ok, you can't come in,we got to make sure you know
you're who you say you are.
You're not wanted.
We're going to make sure you'renot a gang member.
Even if we were to do thattoday, in my opinion, I think
it'd be too little, too late.
Because, the damage is done.

(40:20):
So our, our country is going tobe facing the consequences of
the border surge, the insecureborder, for many, many years to
come.
Unfortunately, our local policeofficers are going to be the
ones that are handling thissituation when they get called
to the shootings and the fightsand the stabbings and the
murders and the gang fights.

(40:40):
That's the sad thing.
So what I would hope happens isthat we already know Frendi
Arawa here.
They're extremely dangerous.
I'm hoping and they may even beworking on it already, but I'm
hoping that, like maybe the FBI,hsi, get together with state
and local and put a programtogether to number one, try to

(41:05):
identify and locate all these,confirm gang member, round them
up, arrest them for whateveractivities they've been involved
in and then deport them.
Unfortunately, we don't havethe United States, doesn't have
a relationship with the countryof Venezuela, but we need to do
something before it gets worse,because there's no doubt in my

(41:25):
mind, friende Aragua, they'regoing to be committing a lot
more murder before it's over.

Speaker 1 (41:32):
Especially with the backing of the Mexican cartel
that you just mentioned.

Speaker 2 (41:36):
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, and there's no doubt.
There's no doubt about that.
They just want a piece of thepie.
I've heard some reports comeout that the concern is the
Rendi Arawa hooking up withMS-13.
Quite frankly, I don't see that.
Two completely different gangs,two completely different
countries.
I don't see that.

(41:57):
I don't think either gang needseach other.
I think they're going tocontinue to run independently.
That's my opinion.

Speaker 1 (42:04):
Well, you're the professional and the expert on
that.
So I mean, most Americans werefamiliar with MS-13, especially
up in Long Island and that areaup there, and now this new
threat has manifested itself onthe United States, has
manifested itself on the UnitedStates, and you know, and the

(42:24):
settlements are going to be veryinteresting.
I mean, we have Doral, florida,which is one of the fastest
growing cities in Florida, butit's a population of Venezuelans
that has skyrocketed.
I mean, when I started workingfor Customs, there was nothing

(42:45):
there, it was fields, and now itlooks like downtown Caracas and
I don't mean that in aderogatory, but it's expanding
so fast and I think that that'sgoing to go into the area and
the police department is goingthrough a change there.
They need to adjust to itbecause street crime is going to

(43:08):
go up, because when these gangscome into there and you know
it's a wealthy city, it'sgrowing, but that breeds the
same thing the smash and grabs,the street crimes, the things
that you see in Los Angeles andplaces like that.
It's going to be in the Miamiarea.

(43:30):
That's just my opinion, livingthere for almost 40 years.

Speaker 2 (43:35):
I agree with you.
I think you're right.
I think that's exactly what'sgoing to happen.
I personally believe that's why, even though the FBI released
their stats, that crime has beensignificantly reduced homicides
, rapes, all types of crimethere still is a sense of fear

(43:56):
among the public about crime,and I think that has a lot to do
with it.
They see the migrants coming in, they see the gang members in,
they see the gang membersshooting, attacking police
officers.
So you know, as far as thenumbers I did an interview on a
news station earlier about that.
As far as those numbers, mystatement was basically well,

(44:16):
numbers don't lie.
There's no doubt about that.
However, uh, the other thingthat's also true is that
perception is reality and thatthat's why people are in fear
right now yeah, what do you,what do you see?

Speaker 1 (44:30):
and uh, uh, obviously I'm glad you put out there your
website and the seminars arecoming up and that you're going
to have this on July 11th forlaw enforcement to, because
there's a lot of questions.
You know, what do the tattoosmean, you know, and that's
important.
So when an officer stopssomebody on the street, he can

(44:55):
identify him right away andrealize this is a dangerous thug
.
You know we need to get him offand I just think that's going
to be great and I commend youfor doing that.
And so, when you do theseminars, what do they entail?
And just so the viewers know,and especially the cops that

(45:19):
watch this, I have quite a fewNYPD guys that have come on that
were legendary detectives backthen, you know.
And for the new people coming,what do you offer at the
seminars?
Is it hands-on?
or what Go ahead?
I'm sorry.

Speaker 2 (45:38):
No, it's all lecture PowerPoint and I talk basically
about the Mexican cartel becausethey have a tremendous impact
in our country right now.
I talk about the Mexicancartels.
I'm talking about the gangworking with them and how they
work together, but I also talkabout the different cartels, the
main cartels, the areas ofcontrol in Mexico, the main

(45:58):
cartels, the areas of control inMexico.
And then also I talk abouttheir areas along the southwest
border where they come acrossDifferent cartels, come across
different parts, and then thedifferent highways that they use
.
So I talk about that.
Their travel routes, drug andhuman smuggling routes.

(46:20):
I talk about that.
And then I also talk abouttheir culture.
One of the big segments in myclass is I talk and I train the
police officers about who theMexican cartel pray to pray to
for protection from them.
That's going to be an officersafety here issue.

(46:40):
So I talk about a lot ofdifferent legitimate Catholic
things that the cartels areusing or, as a Catholic, I'm
going to say misusing.

Speaker 1 (46:48):
I agree with you as a fellow Catholic.

Speaker 2 (46:51):
so yes, and then I talk about how they pray to
Santa Muerte.
That concerned me the mostbecause she's very easily
associated with death simplybecause of the way she looks.
I actually talk about how someof these cartel members are
actually sacrificing humanbeings to Santa Muerte, not just

(47:15):
in Mexico but here in theUnited States, and actually talk
about those cases and, as Imentioned, what the cartels are
doing in Mexico, they're doingit here.
I'm talking about beheadingpeople, things of that nature,
sacrificing people or attemptingto sacrifice people.
So Assunta Muerte concerns methe most.
So I make sure that the policeofficers, law enforcement

(47:37):
officers attending my trainingare well aware of Assunta Muerte
, plus all the other saints.
Now I also tell them that noneof the saints that I talk about,
including this non-saint SantaMuerte, are probable cause for
search or arrest.
They're meant to be primarilyred flags to enhance the
officer's safety.
After that, then, it couldpossibly become an indicator

(48:01):
leading to criminal activity ordetection of criminal activity.
That's on a case-by-case basis,but I train the officers on how
to do that.
I talk about the cartel'sinvolvement in using witches to
put hexes on the police officersand judges and prosecutors and
rival cartel members.

(48:21):
I talk about basicallyeverything that the cartels are
involved in, and try to getthese officers to be aware of
these things, not just whilethey're on duty, but off duty.
You know, that's the thing isto notice these things, just be
able to notice these things, andthat's how you get better at
detecting these things.
So it's all about me givingthem information that's going to

(48:45):
enhance their safety.
And then I'll talk about thetwo biggest cartels.
I focus on the two biggestcartel Mexican cartels that are
impacting the United States andactually all over the world, and
they are the Sinaloa cartel andthe new generation cartel,
which is called the CartelJalisco Nueva Generacion.
I've been doing research onboth of those cartels for years

(49:09):
and years.
Well, we all know that ChapoGuzman is in jail and he's going
to die in jail and he's notgoing to escape.
I think you'll agree with methere.
No way he's going to escape.

Speaker 1 (49:19):
Not from that place.

Speaker 2 (49:21):
No, not from that place, no way.
There's no tunnels to be dugthere in the bathroom.
But anyway, what we have rightnow with the Sinaloa cartel
basically are two factions.
You have Mayo Zambada, who wasactually the partner with Chapo
Guzman.
Chapo Guzman is an older guy,he's in his 70s now.

(49:42):
The other faction is going to berun by Chapo's sons, going to
be what they call the Chapitoslittle Chapos and one of them
was extradited to the UnitedStates, I believe in January.
His name is Ovidio Guzman.
They call him in the Graton orthe mouth.
He's extradited and he's in, Ibelieve, in Chicago.

(50:04):
He's already had a hearing.
I feel confident that they'regoing to find him guilty and
eventually he's going to joinhis father and spend the rest of
his life in jail.
We still have a couple ofbrothers that are wanted.
So right now, in my opinion,the brother that's running the
Chapitos is going to be Ivan,and there's a warrant out for
his arrest as well.

(50:24):
Now the Chapitos areresponsible for bringing in
about 80% of all the fentanylthat's poisoned into the United
States.
That's killing thousands andthousands of Americans.
They're responsible for that.
Most of these fentanyl labs aregoing to be in Culiacan,

(50:45):
sinaloa, which is ground zerofor the Sinaloa cartel, and then
you have the other cartel, cjng, and that's run by a guy by the
name of El Mencho.
This guy, el Mencho, actuallyspent some time in San Francisco
, got arrested for sellingheroin.
He had a son there, born in SanFrancisco.
They call him El Menchito.

(51:06):
El Menchito is working for hisdad.
He got extradited to the UnitedStates a year or so ago, so
he's facing charges.
But El Menchito, I believethere's a $10 million reward out
for him.
And this guy is extremely,extremely brutal.
As far as brutality, I showvideo to police officers of his

(51:28):
gang or cartel CJNG, cutting outpeople's hearts, and not only
that, but they're eating thehearts as well.
I have video of that and I showthese officers not to gross
them out, but to tell themReality.
It's reality.
Cj and G is here and you don'twant to ever get abducted by
these guys.
You fight to the death and yougo home every night.

(51:50):
So CJ and G is also bringing alot of fentanyl.
They're bringing a lot ofmethamphetamine into the United
States, and what I'm seeing herelately is that we're also the
two biggest drugs we're facedwith are fentanyl and
methamphetamine.
There's a lot throughout theentire United States, but the
other thing we're starting tosee an increase in is cocaine.
Really came from the cocainecoming into the United States.

(52:15):
So those are the biggestchallenges facing our country
right now, and my, my hat goesoff to DEA, because DEA does a
tremendous job of going afteryou guys.
I was very honored to work withDEA as a narcotic detective
throughout my law enforcementcareer.
These guys do an incredible,incredible job, but we need more

(52:39):
DEA agents, dea agents we do.
We need more customs inspectors,hsi agents, fbi.
We need more deputy marshalsthroughout the United States
also to be helping involved inthese things, especially when it
comes to OCDES investigation.
So you mentioned ahigh-intensity drug trafficking

(53:00):
area, the HIDA.
Yeah, I'm a big believer inthat program.
I've been very fortunate toprovide training to them.
We need for our federalgovernment to provide more
funding for the HIDA, quitefrankly, because the HIDAs are a
multi-agency task force that goafter the cartels and they
dismantle these cartels.
The other thing I'm hoping thefederal government does is

(53:20):
provide more funding to theNational Guard Counterdrug
Training Program because theyprovide free training for a lot
of officers that can't affordthe training or departments that
can't afford the training.
And I'm going to make a littleI guess full disclosure.
I'm honored to be an instructorfor these programs that provide

(53:41):
training to these officers,especially in the rural area.
So that's what's going on withthe cartel.
They're here and they'reextremely dangerous.

Speaker 1 (53:51):
Yeah, I think you hit the nail on the head.
With the fentanyl and themethamphetamines and all that
coming in the country.
It's a real danger.
The amount of people that aredying from it are the size of
small cities and that, and Iremember back in the 90s when I
was working, I was part of theVice Presidential Drug Task

(54:14):
Force with DEA and Customs wesaw a change where everything
cocaine shifted to Mexico.
You know it just like it waslike overnight, within the
two-year period in 1995 to 97.
When you saw it, you were, youknow, you were working on the
job with, you know, in theinvestigations it all came to

(54:35):
the southwest border and it justmoved there.

Speaker 2 (54:39):
Yeah, yeah.
Well, toby, I can shed morelight on that, if you allow me
to.
Yeah, and actually that allbegan with Pablo Escobar running
the Medellin cartel.
He was responsible for bringingmost of the cocaine into the
United States and he would bringmost of it in there to the
Miami Florida area, where ourfederal government eventually
was able to send enoughresources down there, because

(55:02):
the cocaine trafficking thereresulted in a lot of crime, a
lot of robberies, a lot ofmurders, a lot of shooting.
So basically, our federalgovernment put a show call down
there and it deterred PabloEscobar from getting the cocaine
in here.
So what did he do?
He's not going to give up thebusiness.
That's when he went to Mexicoand he started talking to the

(55:23):
Guadalajara cartel.
And Pablo Escobar was not dumb,you know.
He didn't go say I'm going toMexico, I'm taking over Mexico,
because, at that time youalready had the Guadalajara
cartel that was already involvedin marijuana and heroin
smuggling into the United States.
So he knew that the Mexicancartel already had these drug

(55:44):
smuggling routes established, sowhy reinvent the wheel?
So he reached out to theMexican cartel and he said look,
I'll pay you $1,500 for eachkilo of cocaine that you deliver
to the United States.
Sounds like a pretty good deal.
And that's what they starteddoing until eventually the
cartel said you know, we canmake a lot more money.
I told pablo escobar basicallyyou can't do this without us.

(56:07):
We want 50 percent of theproduct.
So that's basically how themexican cartels got more
involved in in in traffickingcocaine in the united states.
And then you bring amadocarrillo fuentes into the
picture.
He was a leader of the waterscart cartel actually at the time
that I was working narcotics inEl Paso, and he would send his
big 0727 airplane to Colombia,load them with cocaine and bring

(56:31):
them to Mexico and then thecocaine would make its way in
the United States.
That's why he earned the titleor he was called el señor de los
cielos the Lord of the Sky,because he used the sky to bring
the cocaine in.
But that's basically how PabloEscobar was involved in the
Mexicans getting involved incocaine.
Last year, actually last summerin July, I actually went to

(56:53):
Medellin, colombia, and I wasable to kind of hang out with
Pablo Escobar's family for theydon't know who I am, but I was
able to hang out with PabloEscobar's family.
I actually met and talked toPablo Escobar's brother, roberto
Escobar, who in my opinion wasas dangerous or more dangerous
than Pablo Escobar, involved inkilling a lot of innocent people

(57:17):
police officers, judges,prosecutors.
Blew up a plane because hethought there was a presidential
candidate on the plane who wasnot even on the plane.
Those kind of things, a lot ofcar bombs.
So that's what I did lastsummer I went out to Bogota and
then went to Medellin and hungout with Pablo Escobar's family.

Speaker 1 (57:35):
That's amazing.
I went down there a coupleyears ago myself.
I went down there a coupleyears ago myself and I went to
where his ranch was and saw thehippopotamuses that are
overabundance.
There's an amusement parkthat's there for kids and they

(57:56):
worship him in that town.
I mean, there's a museum.
Did you go to the museum whenyou were there?

Speaker 2 (58:03):
No, I didn't go to the museum, but I did go to the
memorial they built when theydemolished his fortress there in
Medellin, and that was prettyeye-opening and it was a tribute
, a memorial to all his victims,including a police officer who
died at the hands of PabloEscobar.
Part of that memorial remindedme of the 9-11 memorial, kind of

(58:27):
like the waterfall and thenames on the slide there on the
walls on the top.
Yeah, so I went there, but no,I wasn't able to make the museum
.
I take it back, though.
I did go to the one thatRoberto Escobar runs and then I
went to another one that hisnephew ran also.
They were like private museumsand they charged people to go in

(58:48):
there.

Speaker 1 (58:48):
Yeah, I went to the one in town, the main one and I
went to Annapolis and saw thathe had these cars from the 40s
we in the United States wouldhave seized them immediately and
they went to rust.
It was an unbelievablecollection that he had there.

(59:09):
And you know, I didn't tellpeople who I was.
I think I got on a bus withGerman tourists or something
like that I did and went thereand just wanted to see firsthand
.
But, no, it's amazing and thankyou so much for shedding the
light on the cartels and theorganizations and what the

(59:33):
problem is here.
I mean it's a major problem and, like you said, all fingers
point back to Mexico on this, tothe cartels and the gangs and
stuff like that.
I, you know, I had heard aboutthis gang in Venezuela when I

(59:56):
was there.
They said be careful.
And I had no idea who this was.
You know it was a street gangor whatever, but this is, like
you said, the most dangerousgang that's here in the United
States right now.

Speaker 2 (01:00:11):
Yeah, no, there's no doubt about it, and I don't know
.
If we're running out of time,you tell me, or do we still have
more time where I can talk alittle bit about Mexico itself?

Speaker 1 (01:00:19):
Please, please.
The religious aspect was veryinteresting.
Well, thank you.

Speaker 2 (01:00:28):
It really does open some eyes of officers out there.
But I mean, that is what it is.
And I tell these officers look,I'm not trying to get you to
believe in this stuff, I'm justtrying to get you to believe
that they believe in this stuffand that's all that matters.
And use this information as atool, primarily to stay safe, to
enhance your safety.
But as far as Mexico you know,people ask me, robert, what is

(01:00:50):
the problem in Mexico?
Why are the cartels soprevalent out there?
Why are they so powerful?
And for me the answer is verysimple.
One word sums it up and that iscorruption.
Unfortunately, corruption isembedded in the fiber of the
fabric that makes Mexico canleave.
That's corruption.
And let's go all the way up tothe state, military, federal and

(01:01:26):
even the federal government.
Last year we had the formerdefense minister of Mexico
that's a big deal Genaro GarciaLuna, that was convicted, found
guilty of working with ChapoGuzman and getting paid millions
and millions of dollars.
I tell people that's theproblem and unfortunately,
unfortunately, that's not goingto change until the Mexican

(01:01:48):
people, the good people ofMexico, putting enough pressure
on the Mexican government anddemand change.
Otherwise it's just another dayat the office.
You know when innocent peopleget killed in Mexico.
About three years ago we hadthree film students from college
a film college there in Mexicoout exploring a ranch to film do

(01:02:10):
a film and they were abductedby the New Generation Cartel.
The New Generation Carteldetermined they weren't who they
were looking for, but theykilled them anyway and then they
paid another guy to dissolvetheir bodies in acid.
When that happened, a lot ofpeople came out protesting and
marching and things of thatnature.
But here's the deal.
That's great.

(01:02:30):
I just think the Mexicangovernment, they know that no
big deal.
This protest is going to endone or two days and it's over
and things return back to normal, and they're right.
So I believe, in order to to getobtain permanent change, the
good people of mexico need tokeep this pressure on the
mexican government at all time.

(01:02:53):
That's that's what's going onhere.
You got police officers thatare working for the mexican
cartel at all different levels.
Things aren't going to get anybetter now.
Don't get me wrong, and I knowyou, you agree with.
We have our corruption problemshere in the United States.
We do in all agencies state,local and federal.
However, I feel confidentsaying that not to the extent

(01:03:14):
that they have in Mexico.
That's the biggest problem inMexico.
Now let's talk about theargument, or the idea of
declaring the Mexican cartelthis terrorist organization.
Quite frankly, I think that'swhat needs to be done.
That needs to be done Now.
A lot of people don't agreewith that, and I think a lot of
it, because they don'tunderstand what that yeah, I

(01:03:37):
knew you would.
But a lot of people don't agreewith that because see what they
envision, these people thatdon't understand what that means
.
They think that if we declarethese cartel terrorist
organization, they envisiontanks uh, us tanks and troops
invading mexico going in there.
That's not going to happen.
We're going to go after thesecartel leaders in the same

(01:03:57):
manner that we go after theseisis leaders and these
terrorists in the Middle East,these other terrorists in the
Middle East.
We just locate them with adrone and then blow them up.
That's what needs to happen.
Unfortunately, mexico doesn'twant to do that.
Now we have a new president ofMexico coming in.
My first impression of her wasnot that great, and the reason

(01:04:19):
for that because she said shewas running on a platform of
continuity.
Continuity means nothing'sgoing to change and Mexico needs
to go after the car.
They're not going to do that.
However, before becomingpresident-elect of Mexico, she
was the mayor of Mexico City,and I do like some of the things
she did there.
She got law enforcement officersthere to proactively target and

(01:04:43):
address areas where they wereexperiencing high crime, and
that had some positive resultsthere.
So I like the way she'sthinking.
She's also talking aboutcreating a national database,
intelligence sharing databasewith all the officers there.
I like that.
Obrador never thought of stufflike that, and I would like it

(01:05:06):
even better if they involve USlaw enforcement, especially DEA.
Obrador hated DEA, he hated DEA.
He almost kicked DEA out ofMexico.
So our relationship withObrador as far as law
enforcement was horrible.
So let me just say this I'm, Iguess, withholding judgment on

(01:05:27):
the president-elect, and I'mhopeful that she's going to be a
big improvement over Obrador.

Speaker 1 (01:05:35):
That would be fantastic.
One of the things that I wasinvolved in was the Kiki
Hamarina case with Rene VerdugoUrquoise and you know that was
like I said.
People didn't understand thisis the death of an agent.
It was necessary at the time todo it and it went to the

(01:06:02):
Supreme Court and I think itturned out.
It brought attention to theregion with this drug problem to
the average person when ithappened in the middle 80s.
But I think you nailed it onthe head that Mexico needs to
change and you know I'm glad youbrought it up.

(01:06:23):
Corruption has always been inthe culture there.
And you know, like you said, youknow, even though you and I are
good Catholics and we practice,it's still there's that one
thing that's out there, with thecorruption that I think needs
to be addressed, and it's achallenge.

Speaker 2 (01:06:46):
Yeah, and let me just say this also, toby is that you
have Catholic priests in Mexico.
Several of them have beenabducted by the cartel, tortured
and some of them killed, andthe reason is because during
their homily, they speak outagainst organized crime, they
speak out against the cartelsand what they're doing, so to
shut them up, that's whatthey're doing.
A lot of journalists are beingkilled in Mexico as well.

(01:07:09):
Now you mentioned Kiki Camarena.
I'd like to just spend a minutetalking about Kiki Camarena.
Yeah.
Kiki Camarena everywhere I go,toby every class that I put on.
I talk about Kiki Camarenabecause I don't want anybody
forgetting him.
I want to keep his memory alive.
This guy was truly a hero, anAmerican hero.
He's a California boy fromCalexico, california, former

(01:07:33):
United States Marine and thenalso local police officer.
I think he was a firefighterthere for a short time and then
he joined the EAA station inArizona assigned to Guadalajara.
At that time the Guadalajaracartel.
The three main players wereMiguel Angel Pilek Gallardo,
rafael Caro Quintero and ErnestoFonseca.

(01:07:54):
So in 1985, they ordered forKiki Camarena to be abducted.
And the reason for that wasKiki Camarena was doing a
tremendous job.
He was with a pilot, anassistant from a pilot in Mexico
, flying and locating thesetremendous huge marijuana groves
and taking them down, alsoseizing a lot of cocaine.

(01:08:17):
So finally the cartel got upsetand under the orders of Caro
Quintero.
And so finally the cartel gotupset and under the orders of
Caro Quintero, he was abductedduring broad daylight as he was
on his way to meet his wife,mica Camarena, for lunch.
And I know Mica personally justtalked to her on the phone a
week ago.
She actually was our speakerlast year when we had the

(01:08:38):
International Summit on MexicanCartels and Gangs in San Antonio
.
We're doing that again inNovember.
That's on the websitemexicancartelorg.
The year before that we hadKiki's son, kiki Jr, as the
guest speaker.
So anyway, kiki was abducted andbrutally tortured nonstop for
36 hours.
The final death blow they got atire arm and drove it to the

(01:09:00):
top of his skull.
So this was a very, very sadsituation.
They also killed the pilot aswell.
As soon as we didn't know Kikiwas dead, right away what
happened with Mika?
Kiki didn't show up for lunch,but that's not unusual, being
married to a cop.
But when Kiki didn't come homefrom work or call her, she got

(01:09:22):
worried.
She called his supervisor whosaid Kiki is not working
anything At that moment.
They sent all the agents toKiki's house.
They protected the family andthen they started going after
who?
They suspected the Guadalajaracartel, because they knew Kiki
hurt them.
Now, the reason that we wereable to get Kiki's body back is

(01:09:44):
because of President RonaldReagan.
He was the president at thattime and he actually shut down
the border.
He shut down the border andsaid we're not going to open
until you give us his body back,and that actually had a lot to
do, or actually everything to dowith them returning, locating
Kiki's body and the body beingable to be returned to the

(01:10:04):
United States for proper burial.
But those are some of thethings that happened.
I was working in our cottagewhen that happened there in El
Paso and I remember vividly thatborder being shut down and
working with DEA and I mean itwas just a horrible, horrible
time for our country.
So Kiki Kometa truly died.

(01:10:24):
A hero, a great American hero,no doubt about it.

Speaker 1 (01:10:29):
It was my pleasure to take Rene Verdugo-Arquise to
his arraignment in San Diegofrom Washington, and one of the
things that you can comment onis, when we did the operational
plan to bring him there,washington media was suspecting
that something was going on, asthey did, but we didn't have the

(01:10:51):
mass media, the CNNs, the multi, you know.
So we took him from the federalcourthouse on a coach flight
with me to San Diego and, uh,they missed it and it was kind
of kind of fun.
You know how the marshals are,they like doing tricks and

(01:11:13):
pulling things over on fugitives.
So that was it.
But uh, no, your involvementwith that is wonderful and you
know, you just shed so muchlight on this.
I came into this podcast andI'm amazed, you know, and I know
the listeners are going to wantto go to your school, so please

(01:11:35):
tell me your website again andthat so they can go to it.

Speaker 2 (01:11:41):
Sure, absolutely.
It's mexicancartelorg.
The information for thatwebinar being held July 11th,
two-hour webinar, is on thatwebsite.
It's for law enforcement.
And then the other big thing wehave coming up is in November
in San Antonio November 10th tothe 15th, or 11th to the 15th, I

(01:12:04):
should say we're having theInternational Summit for Mexican
Cartels and Gangs.
This is actually going to beour fourth annual conference and
we have a great turnout frompeople from all over the country
, also from Canada, so a lot ofgood training going on.
And again, I'm always availableto do training.
Anybody wants me to go outthere and I can tailor my

(01:12:26):
presentation for any type ofaudience and for any amount of
time as well.

Speaker 1 (01:12:32):
I think that would be of interest to the law
enforcement community where Ireside in South Florida.
Definitely, with the, we havesuch an influx of people coming
from Venezuela, good and the bad.
So again, thank you so much,robert, for being on here.

(01:12:53):
I'll talk to you in the nextcouple days.
And, on a side note, I noticedyou're friends with Javier
Guerrero on Facebook and Iworked with him in Los Angeles
before he got to be a childpolice.
But thank you so much and enjoythe rest of your evening,

(01:13:15):
appreciate it.

Speaker 2 (01:13:16):
Well, thank you, Toby .
Thank you very much.
It's an honor to be here.
God bless you and all yourviewers and listeners.
Thank you for having me here.
It's truly an honor.

Speaker 1 (01:13:23):
Thank you, sir.