Ep 5: Pete Thron (Part One) - Undercover NYPD Officer Faces Wrongful Conviction

Prepare to be captivated by the extraordinary life of Pete Thron, a former police officer and acclaimed author, as he takes us through his compelling journey from the streets of Harlem to the literary world. Growing up in a strict Sicilian family in Merrick, Long Island, and facing early life challenges, Pete's pursuit of justice and passion for law enforcement shine through. He shares how an injury ended his promising baseball career, leading him to walk a foot beat in Harlem, where he experienced a profound cultural shift. You'll get a glimpse into his book "End Of Tour," which illustrates his incredible journey.

Pete takes us behind the scenes of his adrenaline-pumping life as an undercover narcotics cop. From high-stakes car chases and dramatic arrests to innovative surveillance techniques, Pete's stories are nothing short of thrilling. Experience the tension of a major narcotics bust that led to significant seizures and intense courtroom battles. Pete's collaboration with the ATF and his relentless pursuit of justice, even against the Greek mob, highlight the complex and dangerous world of undercover police work. His dedication to becoming a detective, despite numerous opportunities to join federal agencies, showcases his unwavering commitment to his career.

The narrative takes a dramatic turn as Pete recounts the tumultuous end of his police career amidst accusations of corruption and a wrongful sentence. Hear firsthand about the corruption within the justice system and Pete's ongoing fight for appeals after serving nearly two years in prison. Despite the setbacks, Pete's resilience and pursuit of clearing his name continue to inspire. Explore the ethical dilemmas, the support from his colleagues, and the broader implications for justice. This episode promises a raw and eye-opening account of law enforcement, redemption, and the relentless quest for truth.

Produced by: Citrustream, LLC

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
With us today for Justice, then Justice.
Now we have former policeofficer detective author Pete
Dron.
Pete's going to talk todayabout his criminal justice
experiences and his literarycareer.

(00:23):
And his literary career.
Pete is the author of thisprobably heard of this book
Behind Blue Eyes.
The book is about an accurate14 chapters of my career with
cases and I'm very grateful tohim and he wrote it the right

(00:47):
way.
It covers the whole system ofeverything that I did, from a
local police officer to being amarshal service employee,
customs and I, finishing it offwith ICE and continuing onward
with consultancies with federalagencies and with private

(01:10):
investigations supporting lawenforcement, along with also the
community of offender relief.
And that His books.
This is his book End of Tor.
It's a very emotional book thathe wrote about himself and his

(01:34):
struggles and successes in thecriminal justice system.
The other one that there'sother books too.
He's written all kinds.
The other one that there'sother books too.
He's written all kinds.
He's a board winning author onAmazon and second to none
chronicles personnel in the NewYork City Police Department with

(01:55):
valor.
So it's my pleasure to sit herewith Jeff Thomas, the producer.
Talk to my good friend, petehow are you this afternoon.
All right, tom, how?

Speaker 2 (02:06):
are you this afternoon?
All right, tom, how are younice to see you guys.
Hey, jeff, how are you?
Hey?
I just want to say that Iwasn't a detective, I was police
officer.
I was striving to be adetective and um, my story will
tell you why that got derailed.
I'll go into detail with that.
Um, and my story will tell youwhy that got derailed.

(02:26):
I'll go into detail with that.

Speaker 3 (02:30):
What do you want to know?
So, pete, I know we're going totalk about a ton of things, but
I always kind of like to startoff with you know where you're
from.
What was growing up like?
How was your childhood?
What were your parents like?

Speaker 2 (02:48):
You know.
Just give me a little briefrundown of how it all started
for you.
I'm from Merrick, long Island,and grew up with a single mother
.
My father passed away when Iwas 11 months old and I'm the
third child of three and I wasgrew up on, like I said, a very

(03:14):
strict Sicilian family.
And you know Sunday Italiandinners and my grandfather was
basically the ruler of the house.
Didn't matter where we were,whatever he said went, they
spoke.
A few times during each Sundaydinner They'd speak in Italian.

(03:35):
My grandmother and grandfatherthey were both from Brooklyn.
Also they actually lived a fewblocks away from each other.
Never even knew it until theygot older and when they started
going out they realized howclose they blocks away from each
other.
Never even knew it until theygot older and when they started
going out they realized howclose they lived next to each
other.
So I grew up with really goodmorals, always the respect to

(04:00):
police.
I was pretty talented inbaseball.
I was an above average baseballplayer.
In baseball I was an aboveaverage baseball player and I
went to college to play baseballat Dowling College in Oakdale,
long Island.
It was a D3 school but weplayed D2 in the D2 division.

(04:21):
So the competition was prettytough and I was talented enough
to where my coach had got me awalk-on tryout with the Seattle
Mariners.
When the Mariners were anexpansion team, they just came
onto the scene and I did well inthe tryout, well enough to get

(04:46):
a potential contract.
I went to the tryout on my ownand, to be honest with you, I
really didn't understand thecontract when I was reading it.
It just had a lot of legalthings that I just had no idea
what it was talking about.
I should probably should havepaid more attention in school.

(05:08):
So I called my coach and he goton the phone with the main
person and he said he would bemy acting agent if they could
just hold over the weekend,because my, my team was in a

(05:29):
tournament which was which iscalled the knickerbocker
tournament and the mariners gaveme permission to go back to
long island to play in thattournament and then I would fly
back with my coach.
He would be my agent for thetime being and I was going to
sign.
I was actually.
I knew one thing I was going toget a $25,000 signing bonus

(05:51):
because I had hit a few ballsduring a tryout and they knew I
would be.
I was a power hitter from theright side and I was a switch
hitter and from the left side.
I don't want to sound conceitedbut I was a very, very good
contact hitter on the left side.
I'm ambidextrous but I predictI right lefty, I shoot lefty and

(06:16):
I do a lot of things with bothhands.
And I went back to Long Islandwith my coach and I did play in
that tournament.
And I went back to Long Islandwith my coach and I did play in
that tournament and we made thefinals and I probably would end
up being the MVP of thattournament.
And in the last game of thechampionship the ball was hit

(06:38):
over my head.
I was checking the distancebetween the ball and the fence
and I ran into the fence.
I didn't check the distancecorrectly and when I went to
jump up to get the ball that wasgoing over the fence, hit it
and destroyed my throwingshoulder and pretty much lost
everything.
I couldn't throw a ball thecorrect way and that was one of

(07:01):
my strong suits.
I had a very strong arm and Ilost my scholarship, lost the
contract and I ended up doingthe thing that I love sick and I
became a cop and I took thetest at a young age.
I took the test at 20 years oldand by 22 years old I was

(07:25):
walking a foot beat.
And my first day as a trainee Ihad a great, I had a really good
, an amazing training officer.
And I was a kid from LongIsland.
When I drove into the city thatfirst day it was like 5 o'clock

(07:49):
in the morning and I had neverseen attics.
I was in the middle of Harlemand it was a culture shock.
To tell you the truth, Iprobably should have driven in
there earlier to get a feel forthe area I was going to work in,
but I just didn't think thatway at that time.

(08:13):
And this guy's name was SatchCotto.
He looked like the Iron Sheik.
I don't know if you guysremember the Iron Sheik from
wrestling.
He had that hand mustache.
It was waxed bald head.
He actually may have beenbigger than the Iron Sheik, the

(08:35):
guy.
He was a bodybuilder, he wasjust a piece of iron and he did
some time in the Vietnam War andyou could just tell that this

(08:58):
guy had seen things.
And we had to remove a personoff a rooftop.
We were in the lunchroom andthe first time he picked me
first, I was with five otherpeople and there were three

(09:20):
other training officers it washim, another guy and a girl
training officer, woman trainingofficer and he pointed at me.
He said you're going to gofirst and I was like, okay,
great, this is just what I need.
Why can't somebody else go?
And he said you're going toplay the perp on the that's

(09:44):
trespassing on the roof.
And I'm and he was going to bethe cop.
So he said, just like, kind ofmouth off to me, do whatever you
know, say whatever you want tosay to me, but crouch in a
corner and I'm going to move,I'm going to make you move.
I had no idea what I was doing.
So he comes up to the roofsupposedly the make-believe roof

(10:07):
and he pokes me with hisnightstick.
He says hey, buddy, you got tomove.
Now.
I had to kind of resist.
So I was like, hey, man, justleave me alone, get the fuck
away from me.
Excuse my language.
Within a second I was picked upoff my feet, pressed against
the wall and I had a hand on mythroat and under my chin and

(10:32):
he's like you're going tofucking move or I'm going to
throw you off the roof, like OK,ok, and I was.
I got to tell you I washumiliated and when I get, and I
was pissed, when I get pissed,my eyes start to water, like
that's how I know I'm reallypissed off.
He said okay, go outside,you're going to be the cop.

(10:55):
Give me a minute to prepare.
So he calls me in.
Now he's the perp and I'm thecop and I poke him with my
nightstick and I'm like hey,buddy, you know you got to move.
Now you got to move.
He got up so quick and went tograb me that I don't know if you

(11:18):
remember, toby, that thenightsticks that they gave you
were like crap.
They were made of pine and theybroke easy.
It wasn't a Coca-Cola,coca-cola is a heavy oak
nightstick which I got the nextday.
He went to charge me and Ipulled my hand out and I cracked

(11:41):
him across his leg with thestick.
My stick broke and he's likehold up, hold up, hold up, end
of scenario, end of scenario.
And I was like sorry, sorry, Ididn't mean to hurt you.
He's like no, you didn't hurtme.
The guy had, his legs were liketree trunks.
So he's like I'm taking himwith me for the first day of

(12:02):
patrol.
As I go, jesus, I'm in troubleman.
So we drive to the WashingtonCarver houses and I had never
seen a project, guys, never.
And this project that we wentinto the hallways, the hallway
lights were all broken.

(12:25):
The hallway lights were allbroken.
So the stairwells stairwelllights, I should say were dark.
You could see what you weredoing, but it was pretty scary.
And the walls, they were allgraffiti.
So he's like we don't takeelevators, we walk up and then

(12:47):
we walk back down.
There's two entrances to eachhallway.
So you walk the stairwell, oneperson walks one side, the other
person walks the other, andwhen you reach the following
floor, you tap on the side ofthe wall that you're on to let

(13:09):
the guy that you know, let himknow, let your partner know,
that you're okay and I hadgotten a nightstick from
somebody.
So we reached the rooftop andonce you get to the rooftop, now
you're together again andactually the roof landing, and
on the roof landing there wasall brown stains and yellow

(13:35):
stains.
I was like what the hell isthat?
It's like this is where the andit's it stunk.
He's like this is where theaddicts relieve themselves after
they shoot up.
I wanted to throw up.
I got to tell you I wanted topuke right there.
But I'm like don't puke, don'tshow them that you're weak, get

(13:57):
on the rooftop and then breathereal air.
So we got on the rooftop.
He was telling me some prettywild stories that he had been
involved in.
I was asking him about his barson it on his uh, his metals on
his it's called a rack on it onhis uh chest and he was telling
me about the stories.
So before we left the roof hesaid listen, the main thing you

(14:20):
got to do is, when you'releaving the building, just make
sure you look up because peoplewill throw air mail at you.
Air mail is people are throwingstuff off the roofs or to hit
you, or stuff out of theirwindows and I'm not talking
about paper things, they'rethrowing bottles, whatever they

(14:41):
can get their freaking hands on.
They're going to throw at you.
They're trying to hit you inthe head.
So we get to the bottom and hekind of put his hand out and
says you go first.
And I went and about eight feetI got out, eight feet to the
left of me, to the right of me.

(15:02):
I'm sorry I heard this loudexplosion.
I thought it was a shotgunblast.
I'm sorry.
I heard this loud explosion, Ithought it was a shotgun blast.
I actually dove out of the way.
I knew how to do, like a diveand a somersault.
Come out of it with asomersault.
And I did that and I pulled mygun in.
I thought that I was being shotat.
And he's yelling holster yourweapon, holster your weapon.

(15:24):
And I'm on a knee.
I'm like where the fuck arethey?
Where are they?
Scared, shitless.
And he says look to the left,there's a cinder block.
Someone had to hurl the cinderblock from the roof.
They waited for us to leave theroof.
They took a cinder block thatwas already there and they threw

(15:49):
it off the roof at me.
It literally missed me by eightfeet.
If it hit me I would have beendead.
So he picked me up.
He's like what did you learntoday?
I'm like always look up, alwayslook up when you're going in or
out of a building up, alwayslook up when you're going in or
out of a building.
So when I got in my car thatnight I was like what am I
getting myself involved in?

(16:10):
I'm a kid from Long Island.
This is like a.
It's a war zone and that's whatit was.
People don't understand.
People think war is waroverseas.
It's an urban war in thestreets.
It's you versus them, and themis the drug dealers and the

(16:31):
criminals, the people that aremurdering people, committing
robbery, burglary, you name it.
It's the cops against the badguys.
It used to be cops against therobbers, but there are more than
robbers out there.
In my case, it was me againstthe drug dealers and the guys
that had guns.

(16:53):
I met a later on in my career,about two years later, I met two
guys from the 3-2 precinct.
They probably were two of thebest cops I ever encountered
Terry McGee and Tommy Barrettand they were the guys that
taught me how to make guncolumns and what to look for and

(17:13):
how to spot things.
And from then on I became anarcotics cop.
Still in uniform, I didn't workin a unit, I worked in my own
unit and I was making.
I was always on rooftops.
I hardly ever.
I really wasn't a well-roundedcop, I was just a collar cop and

(17:36):
it used to piss the bosses offbecause most of the collars that
I made were off project.
I was a housing cop and theywanted the collars being made in
the projects.
What I was trying to explain tothem is listen, the drugs are
not in the projects.
They may be being hidden in theproject, but the only way you
find that out is if you flipsomebody and you get them to

(18:00):
turn and become an informant totell you where the drugs are in
the project.
Drugs were being dealt on thestreet, across the street from
the project, so I would go up onthe project rooftops look down.
I'd stay up there for hoursuntil I spotted a good deal and
a dealer that was making a lotof transactions and then my

(18:22):
partner and I we would go downand we would make the collar my
partner.
At the time when I went back upto, I honed my skills actually
from after I got through myfield training, I went to a
downtown Manhattan, alphabetCity, and that's where drugs
were running rampant.
It was mainly heroin but somecrack and you walked the beat by

(18:47):
yourself in the projects and Ihoned my skills of becoming this
narcotics cop.
I bought a nice power minibinoculars and I'd go down, I'd
watch drug deals, go down myselfand grab these guys and they'd
be across the street.
But I didn't really care, Iwould just write in the report

(19:10):
they were across the street fromso-and-so building.
So I taught myself how to dothat there.
And then I was transferred toHarlem where that became my main
precinct for a little while.
My main precinct for a littlewhile.
I partnered up with a guy thathe was looking to become a

(19:32):
instructor in the police academy.
But I kind of swayed him intomy, my way of thinking and
because I the only thing I loved, collaring, and I was making
anywhere between five to sevencollars every week, between 14,
15 to 20 collars every month anda year I was probably averaging

(19:52):
between 150 to 200 collarsevery year, more on the 150 side
.
But I was usually in the topthree of leaders of collars and
I really really started makingbig collars.
I taught myself a little on howto turn people and how to get

(20:14):
them to become informants,street informants and I realized
that I couldn't pay them withthe department's money because
first of all I was in uniformstill.
So I started paying them out ofmy pocket because I was making
up for it with.

(20:35):
I was getting the overtime so Ididn't really care.
I was getting double an hourfor overtime and back then court
was 24 hours.
So there were times my cousinworked down at court the court
section and she would come out.
She would see me.
She'd be like you want me tohide your paperwork until you

(20:56):
want to go, you can just go intomy, my desk and put it on the
top when you want to.
So I was doing sometimes I'dstay at court for 24 hours, 36
hours, and I would go actuallyrun.
I would go into my regular tour.
So I would do about 18 hoursovertime, then go into my
regular tour, then go back intoovertime.

(21:19):
So I was averaging probablyanywhere between 100 to 200
hours every two months and theprecinct didn't really like that
.
My commanding officer didn'tlike that at the time because I
was beating a lot of people outin overtime and I was beating

(21:41):
the sergeants, the guys in plainclothes.
I just didn't care.
I I didn't follow rules.
I'll be the first one to saythat I I kind of thought that
the rules didn't apply to me.
I made my own rules because inthe street where I worked.
There are no rules.
There weren't rules.

(22:02):
It was a jungle.
It was a concrete jungle and ifyou follow the rules you were
going to get killed.
I had my first shooting when Ihad three years on the job.
I was actually arresting threepeople, had them against the
wall.
One of them had about sevenvials of crack on him.

(22:25):
I cut the other two guys looseand as I was locking up the guy
with the seven vials, I heardthe two-five precinct.
They're like two blocks awayfrom me and I heard shots and
they were in a car chase andthey were exchanging shots with
another, with another car, andthey were heading right down the

(22:48):
street that I was on.
So I uncuffed the guy because Isaw the car coming, told my
partner, stay in the car and getready to to either ram them or
cut them off.
And he was waving me get in thecar.
I'm like no, I'm cutting thisguy loose.
And I cut the guy loose and,sure enough, the car that was

(23:09):
trying to get away.
He took the turn.
He saw me standing against abrick wall and the driver
actually leaned out the driver'swindow.
He was holding the wheel withhis left and he leaned out and
took two shots at me over hisshoulder and one of the bullets
whizzed right by my head.
It hit the brick wall, a pieceof brick lodged into my neck.

(23:34):
I took three or four shots athim.
I hit the car door.
I always try to tell people thatI made that because he took a
turn on the next street and hewas going so fast that the car
flipped.
Car flipped like six times.
It was a little Toyota, but hewas going like 70.

(23:55):
I always tell people that myshots made the car flip over,
but it didn't.
So these guys flipped the carso many times that I ran up on
them.
My partner drove the car onthem.
When they crawled out of thecar they didn't have the shoes
on.
That's how bad they flipped thecar.

(24:18):
They were running on their feetin black socks.
They were dressed in all black.
I had to cut through a, anabandoned lot which was littered
with broken concrete from thebuilding that went down broken
bottles, hypodermic needles itwas.

(24:39):
It was basically.
I was running through aminefield of dangerous things.
I mean you could get stuck witha needle, cut your foot, cut
your leg, you name it.
If I fell I would have beenscrewed.
So I got close enough to theguy where he was about 25 yards

(24:59):
away from me.
He was the driver.
Again, he saw me, he lookedback, took two shots.
I emptied my revolver but I wasrunning and I missed him.
These guys ended up running to116th Street and they ran into
an apartment building.
They broke into an apartment.
They took the family hostage,made them hide them and these

(25:27):
guys hid in a tub.
One of the neighbors saw wherethey he heard what was going on
Called the police.
We told ESU that it was ourguys and the two, five precinct
guys and perps I should say.
Esu caught them right away,smashed their shotgun butts

(25:50):
against the head, knocked themboth out and we went back to the
car and they had zip ties, ducttape, taser guns, money, coke,
more guns.
What they were doing was theyhad no idea what they were doing
.
They had no idea who they werescrewing with.

(26:11):
They went up to WashingtonHeights, which is basically the
drug capital of New York City.
It's where all the factions ofthe cartels operate and they
were ripping off the Dominicanand the of the cartels operate

(26:32):
and they were ripping off theDominican and the Colombian
cartels.
So we told them.
When we started interviewingthem we were like, do you have
any idea who you were rippingoff?
And they were like no, justdrug dealers.
Like do you realize what wouldhave happened if they caught you
?
You would have been like cut upwith a chainsaw.
They just had no idea.
So I said you should bethankful that we caught you

(26:58):
because you're alive.
That was my first shooting and Ijust kept collaring because I
wanted to become a detective.
I wanted to get intoplainclothes first and then get
my detective shield.
Okay, I was not a popularperson with the housing police.
They did not like how I did myjob.
I was a little heavy handed andone night I was in uniform.

(27:24):
I was told I was going intoplainclothes like the next week
and I had shot a dog workingwith plainclothes the week
before.
And I was working at midnightwith this guy, brett Bishop, and
a big, big black guy, one of mybest friends, great guy, and it

(27:45):
was January 10th and it waslike literally zero degrees out
and I'm like Brett, I hope wedon't have to hit anybody today
because they're going to splitopen like a ripe pumpkin.
He's like, yeah, let's just tryto stay in the car tonight
because it was freezing out and,sure enough, like 10 minutes
into the tour I see a guydealing.

(28:06):
I'm like we got to grab him.
The guy was like 4 11.
He was he's a runt, but he hadthis, that big park jacket on.
I got out of, we got out of thecar.
We started chasing him.
He ran into a building.
I chased him into the building.
He ran up to the second floor.
And I heard locks going insidethe door.

(28:29):
I'm listening at the door andall of a sudden I hear like two
or three pitbulls in there.
I'm like Brett, we, brett, Ican't kick this door down, we
can't try to kick this door.
And I just killed a dog lastweek and I'm getting ready to go
into plainclothes.
I can't get involved inanything like this.
He's like all right, let's justcall the issue.

(28:49):
They'll take the door, they'llgrab the guy.
So we went down back downstairs, we called the issue we're
waiting at the car.
And, lo and behold, the guycame out of the building.
I had a nickname on when I wason the job.
It was.
It was batman, because I usedto go on the rooftops and watch.
So the drug dealers called mebatman.

(29:10):
I was pretty honored and, uh,this little guy's like hey,
batman, I wish they let that dogout and it could have bit you
on your ass.
I'm like OK, so we chase him,we grab him, and I threw him
against the wall and he wasstrong as hell.
He had the strength of likefour men and he was stronger

(29:32):
than me and I was very active inAikido.
I was close to getting my brownbelt and I could handle myself
and Brett was stronger than Iwas, so I was going to pat him
down and the guy kept pushingoff the wall.
There was a Coke, 45 malt liquorquart half-filled and Brett was

(29:57):
like you better just chill out,bro.
He's like I ain't your bro,nigga.
I was like, oh boy, this is bad.
So Brett picked up the bottle,cracked it over his head Most
men would have went down likeFrazier right?
This guy looked at us and heturned around to Brett and he's

(30:20):
like is that all you got, nigga?
I was like Brett, we are in somuch trouble he's going to kill
us.
So I went to grab his waist andhe reached into his waistband,
pulled out a 45 automatic,turned around so quick, pistol,
whipped me, ripped my nose offmy face.

(30:43):
It was over here, all the wayfrom here to here and it was so
loud.
It sounded like a baseballhitting a bat.
It sounded like I got shot, andthat's what Brett thought,
because there was so much bloodall over the bat.
It sounded like I got shot, andthat's what Brett thought,
because there was so much bloodall over the place and I dropped
to my knee.
I'm thinking to myself when Igot hit how messed up I was when

(31:07):
I was a cop.
I'm like, damn, that guy didn'tknock me out.
I'm like Brett, that guy justshot me, I'm shot and I
literally thought I was shot inthe face because it happened
like that.
So the guys ran.
I said go kill that mothereffer.

(31:27):
So Brett got into a pursuit withthem.
They exchanged shots and I waswandering the street.
I was in shock and every timemy heart beat, blood would pump
out through my face and I'mgiven central, the wrong
location.
Where I am, brett's puttingover his chase.
On the same channel.
Cops are going all over theplace because we called the 1013

(31:50):
.
Brett called the 1013, which isofficer needs assistance.
I called the 1085, which justofficer needs assistance.
I I called the 1085, which justsaid send some officers over 13
.
Is is bad, it's.
It means that a cop got shot orcops are getting beat up or
into in like a very violentaltercation.

(32:12):
So as I was walking around,another housing car came up and
they skidded and they skidded toa halt and this girl cop came
out and she's like, jesus Christ, you're shot.
I'm like, yeah, I'm shot and Iforgot her name.
But as I was talking, my heartbeat and I sprayed her face with

(32:36):
blood and I swear it lookedlike a B-movie, splatter movie,
and I'm like, oh my God, I'msorry, I'm sorry.
At that time, back in thosedays, you had to worry about
AIDS and the first thing I saidto her was, like, don't worry, I
just got tested, because I wasalways getting tested, because I
got pricked a lot with needlesand you would always ask the

(33:01):
addicts you got a needle on you.
I don't want to get pricked.
I got pricked like two times.
So I always got checked.
I'm like I don't have AIDS,don't worry.
And she's like, don't worryabout it, just get in the
goddamn car.
We got to take you to thehospital and I mean I was just
covered in blood.

(33:23):
I said no, go to the um, go tothe 1013, go help brett.
By the time we got to the, theguy had hid in a construction
site and there had to be like 40cop cars there.
I went into the parking the, Iguess parking lot where it was
and I was bleeding all over theplace.
So they thought that the perpgot shot, that Brett had shot

(33:43):
the perp and he got hit.
But it was me.
It was me bleeding and IABended up showing up and the
lieutenant actually warned allthe cops if this prisoner comes
back, I'm going to make surethat you all get locked up.
So, like it was a really badscene, they got me back into the

(34:06):
car, they rushed me to thehospital.
I ended up getting plasticsurgery and I actually went back
on patrol a few weeks later,made a really big collar,

(34:27):
flipped the guy and called downto this guy, jimmy Haradopoulos,
who was an ATF agent that wasworking with the anti-crime unit
and he had noticed I wasgetting a lot of warrants from
my CIs and all the warrants weregood search warrants and I
would always bring it to thisone judge who I became very good
friends with.
I actually was on a name-to-namebasis with him and I probably

(34:52):
brought about 40 warrants to himand all the warrants.
I never had a bad warrant Toby.
Each warrant had.
We would always find drugs orguns and money.
So when I would bring a warrantover he would tell me like
after the first four he saidlisten, you no longer have to

(35:15):
bring your CI down here, becauseusually you got to bring the CI
with you and they got to swearout the warrant with you.
The judge touched me so muchthat I didn't have to bring my
CIs down.
He just knew that thesewarrants were going to be solid.
And I think that the guys inanti-crime and their narcotic

(35:35):
unit that I was trying to getinto was called PSU at the time.
The captain in that unit hatedme Because I was making his guys
look like fools because theyjust weren't getting as many
warrants as I was and theyweren't getting the amount of

(35:57):
crack and heroin and the gunsthat I was getting off the
street.
And he had told my captain thatI was good friends with Captain
Lennox.
I know that he's doingsomething that he shouldn't be.
He just didn't really want tobelieve that my information was
good and that was one of thereasons that he didn't want to
get me in that unit.

(36:18):
But he ended up bringing me in.
Well, he really actually didn't, but I was supposed to go in.
But then the big collar that Ihad right after I came back from
being hurt turned out to be ahuge, huge collar and we got a
lot of drugs.
One of the guys there were 18people that were listed in this

(36:42):
book that we found a marblenotebook and it actually turned
out to be like I think it waslike 30 people in total that
were listed and we knew of 18,but it was like 30 people from
the Bronx, queens, manhattan andLong Island.
It was a big operation.
It was called FEB and thatstood for Fuck Everybody and

(37:10):
these guys were doing probablyaround $500,000, $700,000 every
week in business.
The main guy that was anenforcer, not the main guy, the
main guy's brother-in-law wasthe enforcer.
His name was KK.
He said I'm going out shootingif a cop tries to collar me up.

(37:35):
So right away I became goodfriends with the agent Jimmy and
we were like well, we're goingto do that one on his house.
And we did.
And we caught him in thebathroom going to the bathroom
and he was shocked.

(37:55):
He had a gun.
He had a gun ready on the couchthat he usually sat on.
It was 9mm and that's where wefound the book and we ended up
doing almost a year and a halflong investigation.
I was doing some buys and weconfiscated about 200,000 vials

(38:19):
of crack.
We bought I'd say we probablybought about 150 of those
probably about 28 weapons guns.
We confiscated several cars andat the time I was the only
housing cop in history ever toconfiscate a house, a full home.

(38:44):
So that case lasted like twoyears.
In between, when we were going,when we get ready to, three
people most of them, most of thepeople pled out.
Three of them 29 people pledout and three people most of
them, most of the people pledout.
Three of them 20 29 people pledout and three people decided to
go to trial.
One guy was facing life becausehe was a three-time loser,

(39:06):
three strike deal and I felt badfor this guy.
He was he, listen, he was.
He was a criminal but we neversaw him doing anything.
He was just listed in the bookas a lieutenant, I'm assuming
when he was doing his job as alieutenant in the street.
He was very, very, very good atit because we never saw him,

(39:32):
but he was one of the bad guysand he got locked up with them
and he knew that he was going tobe going for life.
The main guy, his name, wasLeroy Sykes, leonard Sykes,
leroy Sykes I can't remember hislast name.
He ended up turning oneverybody and rolling on
everybody.
So when JB the guy John Bowman,which his name is JB he was

(40:00):
going to court to fight his case.
Sykes was in transit to gosomewhere upstate and the marsh
by accident put them in the samecell.
It really wasn't their fault,we didn't the judge and we

(40:21):
didn't tell the marshals listen,you've got to keep these guys
separated Because we didn'tthink that Sykes was getting
transferred upstate or wherever.
Maybe he was in transit, I'mnot sure and JB sliced him
across his cheek and gave him alot of stitches so that became a

(40:43):
problem.
Then we had to recharge him buthe got found.
All of them got found guilty.
He got life and five or sixguys got 20.
Five or six guys got 20 and alot of other people that either
did proffer sessions with us orpled out.
They got minimum for 10 years.
So that was a really good case.

(41:05):
And uh, by then I was close tolike 700.
I had about 700 and somethingcollars I had assisted in over
another thousand.
Back then I didn't have a bosswhen I was down at ATF.
I was working with ATF in anoffice and the agents were my
boss.
So they would get me.

(41:27):
They'd call me up and eithergroup five I worked in group one
, group five or one would saylisten, we got a warrant.
That wasn't my warrant.
Do you want to go with us toexecute it and get some overtime
?
So I, of course, I'd alwayspick up six or seven hours every
two or three days.
It was great and I was learninghow to do, you know, execute the

(41:51):
warrants correctly, how to flipmy informants, and I went to an
entry school that was taught bythe Navy SEALs.
That was great, and I did acourse with how to interview

(42:12):
people with the FBI.
So I learned a lot of stuffwith them.
I learned how to do the penregisters, the wire taps and
really, really do goodsurveillance.
And I had done a.
We were doing a surveillance onone of the guys in FEB and it
was me and another cop and I sawthe guy reaching in like onto

(42:35):
his waistband and I thought hewas putting you remember the
change that?
And I saw the guy reaching inlike onto his waistband and I
thought he was putting youremember the change that, the
change counter that the icecream guy used to have when we
would go to the ice cream guy,yeah, so I'm like, oh, he must
be feeding quarters and dimesand nickels in there.
It's like I looked even closerand I'm like Jesus, he's loading

(42:56):
a technology magazine, so hemust have loaded like three of
them and he handed them to agirl and the girl ran into this
alleyway and then he split inhis Mazda and I was like, glenn,
let's go into the alleyway,let's try to grab her.

(43:19):
I didn't get permission fromJimmy, which I should have.
I should have told him listen,we're going to go, because she
was a subject of theinvestigation.
We wanted to grab all of themat once, but I knew that you
know, obviously there was a gunthere.
So we followed, I followed herin and she went into this

(43:40):
basement area of this apartmentbuilding and she was putting the
magazines in this brown paperbag and, oh my god, I'm like
charmaine, don't move inside thebig.
There was like 26 weapons, 26guns.
So I'm like, okay, we got tocall jimmy and I called j guns.
So I'm like, okay, we got tocall Jimmy and I called Jimmy.
And I'm like, listen, we gotCharmaine, she got 26 guns,

(44:00):
there's drugs in here and money.
So she ended up flipping oneverybody and she became a good
witness in that case and I didsome other cases while I was
down there.

(44:27):
I did some other cases while Iwas down there I did undercover
work against the freak mob whowas selling those temporary tags
that people get when they go tothe au way and they were
selling a drug called bazooka,which was crack cocaine reversed
into pure form, and they wereselling $20 dime bags and I

(44:53):
purchased about $20,000 worth ofthat and we locked up three
guys from the Greek mob.
That was a good collar.
And then I was the case wasdone and the agents kept telling
me listen, why don't you rollover from the housing police and

(45:17):
become an ATF agent?
I was so headstrong on becominga detective that I really
didn't want to hear it.
I'm like no, no, I just want tobe a detective.
And when I look back at it, Idefinitely should have rolled
over and became an agent becausethey said, with my experience I
probably could have.
What do they start out withToby?

(45:39):
What grade Like grade 10?
With ATF?

Speaker 1 (45:46):
Well, yeah, with ATF or agent, it depends.
If you were right out ofcollege it would be a GS5.
And then if it could be a 7.
And the highest rate I'mtalking, gs-9, to go over.
Everybody takes a cut, likewhen they leave the police

(46:07):
department.
I did, you know, to become amarshal and it's just a fact.
But over the progression ofyour career, your grade grows
and you make more money on theway you know.
So, yeah, that that's always anissue and you know, you were,
you were, you know you, with thenumber of collars you had, uh,

(46:31):
you know, 700.
At that point it would be.
They would probably hire you atthe highest grade, you know,
based on your background.

Speaker 2 (46:41):
Yeah, that's what they were saying.
They were telling me listen,you can get a really good grade
and you'll just rise up quickly.
And I was just pigheaded andit's like no, I just want to be
a detective.
I really wanted to stay downthere as a detective and stay in

(47:01):
group one, but that captainfrom the narcotics wasn't having
it.
He was good friends with thegroup supervisor at group one
and he's like no, he's goingback up to PSA 6 in Harlem, he
can be an anti-crime and thenhe'll come into my unit.

(47:22):
But I knew he was going tostring me along for a while.
So my captains they were pushingfor me to get my shield were
pushing for me to get my shield.
And this guy, Captain Blackman,who was the commanding officer,
he's like you don't even haveto go back to narcotics, I'm

(47:44):
going to get you your shield,You're going to go right into
the Bureau, which would havebeen fine, I just wanted my
shield.
So he said just work in plainclothes, I think I can get it
for you.
There's a promotion next month.
I think.
With everything that you diddown there, I think we can get

(48:06):
it.
Just, you know, maybe showthese guys what you learned and
make some collars, but teachthese guys on how to really make
Nakata collars and gun collarsand be better cops.
And that's what I was doing forlike the first two weeks.
And I had one night I had tobabysit my daughter.

(48:28):
The next morning my partnercouldn't take a collar, so there
was a girl cop that wanted acollar and I said, okay, well,
we can go up to the Heights andI'll do the undercover work.
Just you two guys meaning herand my partner.
I said, just ghost me, butdon't stay close, Just keep me
in eye contact, just so you knowwhere I am, Don't lose sight of

(48:53):
me, but don't follow me,because then they'll know.
So I had a black army jacket ona Gilligan.
Remember the Gilligan hat, thefishing hat that he had?
It was an Oakland Raider blackGilligan hat.
And I told him okay, drop meoff at 163rd Street, I'm going

(49:16):
to go into the bodega, I'll geta beer, I'll empty it, put a
little beer on my breath andI'll start walking the street.
And I always made sure thatthere was a project close nearby
and there were some rehabs thatthe housing police, the housing
department, housing authorityowned across the street or on

(49:39):
the next block.
So I was like all right, I'msafe to do this.
So I was hoping that I would beable to make a deal on the
street.
But that didn't happen.
You know, like I said, thesewere.
These dealers were not thedealers from Harlem, you know
the crack dealers.
These guys were the real deal,the smaller factions of the

(50:02):
cartels.
So one guy on 164th Streetapproached me on the corner,
near the corner, and I saw abodega and his building.
He was about three buildingsaway from his building.
He said you're looking foranything?
I said, yeah, I'm looking, uh,for snow, which was cocaine.

(50:23):
He's like all right, come withme.
So he brings me to the stoop ofhis building and there's two
guys on the right and two guyson the left leaning against the
railings and right away I knewall four of them had weapons.
I could see the bulges in theirwaistbands.

(50:45):
I said, okay, this is theproblem.
They nodded at him.
So I knew that he was eithertheir boss or working with them.
Either their boss or workingwith them.
So we walked through the hallway, the corridor, and he walked up
three stairs and then therewere two guys sitting on three

(51:10):
more stairs to the left, but thedoor was on the right and he
put the key into the door and heturned around and he said you
know what you look like a cop.
So I turned around.
I didn't turn around.
I said, listen, we're eithergoing to do this or I'll go down
to the corner I'll buy fromanother Colombian.
We're either going to do thedeal or we're not going to do
the deal.
I'm not going to waste my time.

(51:32):
I don't think he was expectingme to respond so quickly, but I
had been in that situationanyway.
So he turned, he said all right, you're cool, You're cool.
And he looked at the other twoguys and he was like what do you
guys want?
And they were like we want, wewant some Coke.
So as he's opening the door, Ihear the door, the tumbler,

(51:53):
click open.
He opens the door crack.
I hear two more voices comingin the hallway, very, very
familiar voices, my partners,and they walk up to where I am
and I look at them.
I'm like I mouth them.
What the fuck are you doinghere?

Speaker 1 (52:11):
you're gonna get me killed.

Speaker 2 (52:14):
Guy turns to them what, what do you want?
And they're like, hey, we'lltake some drugs.
And I was just like, okay, howdoes this guy not know that
they're cops?
They didn't have any idea whatthis was yeah, please have some
drugs, sir.
He's going to pull his gun andhe's going to fucking shoot.
That's it.
So he opens the door and I amyuming at these guys.

(52:38):
Toby, you know what a railroadapartment is?
Yeah, yeah they're connected.

Speaker 1 (52:45):
Yeah, yeah, everything is on the left.

Speaker 2 (52:48):
All the rooms are on the left right.
Jeff and the kitchen is theonly room on the right.
The living room is in the back,but in this instance the only
room on the right the livingroom is in the back, but in this
instance the back was actuallythe front of the building.

Speaker 1 (52:59):
Yeah, it's kind of like there's a movie called Last
Days of Disco, which is kind ofa cool thing, from in the 80s,
like 1982 and 80 through 84.
And it was filmed in 96.
And it has law enforcement,drug theme, studio 54 type thing

(53:20):
, and the occupants that hungout together was a group of
women that lived in this, and ittalks about how they were set
up.
As far as the livingarrangements, it's kind of like
I don't know, pete, what did youjust say, like those little
houses, things, but they're allconnected like that.

(53:41):
Go ahead, you know it betterthan me, you live in here.

Speaker 2 (53:43):
It was a full building, this building, and
there were, I think, two orthree rooms on the left.
And so he goes in, the dealergoes into the kitchen and in the
kitchen is there there's a bigspindle the ones that the
telephone companies use to runtheir cables and a chair and

(54:06):
there was a door leaning againstthe wall and it was like a
little sill, but it looked likethey had walled up the windows.
So he sits down and there was ascale on the table and he

(54:29):
reached behind the door.
So I quickly reached behind myback.
Now I have no vest on, no radiowith me, just my 9mm.
And I'm reaching behind my backbecause I'm like he's going to
grab a fucking gun.
So as he's pulling out, hepulled out a big bag of Coke.

(54:53):
So I slowly pulled my hand outto make it look like I was just
fixing my pants.
He's like all right, what doyou want?
I'm like let me have an eightball, that's an eighth of an
ounce.
So he cuts out the Coke and theminute he did that, I kicked
the spindle table and wedgedthem against the wall and I

(55:19):
pulled my gun out.
I said you're under arrest,pulled my shield out of my shirt
.
I'm like do not move, don'tmake any movements, you're under
arrest, we're the police.
I tell my partners pull yourshield out, tell them that

(55:40):
you're the police.
I tell my partners will youshield out?
Tell them that you're thepolice.
He starts.
The dealer starts screaming inSpanish that we're doing a rip
on him.
I don't understand Spanish andI still don't understand it to
this day.
So I'm like Sharon Sharon was aSpanish girl.
I'm like Sharon.
What the hell is he saying?
He's saying that we're doing arip and with him screaming, the

(56:01):
back of the apartment thewindows were open where the fire
escape was.
So his soldiers heard thatthree or four seconds later
they're up there trying to kickthe door down.
So I'm like Chris, keep yourgun trained out on the door.
We need to get rid of these twoguys.

(56:22):
We can't go through the door.
We can't walk through the frontdoor with them.
So I quickly questioned.
I don't know why I did this.
I questioned the first guy saidall right, go through the fire
escape, you can get through thefront and get out of here.
Today's your lucky day.
I'm letting you go.
He had told me he was there tobuy drugs.

(56:45):
Second guy I grab him.
He's got a bulge in his pocketthat I think is a gun.
I pull my gun out of my emptierpockets and don't move.
I pull my gun out of my emptierpockets and don't move.
Sure enough, he had a six-inchgravity knife and money.
I said throw that on the ground.
What the fuck are you doinghere?
He said you're not just here tobuy a little like an ounce, a

(57:09):
quarter ounce.
What are you buying?
He's like oh, we're buyingweight, me and my brother or my
cousin, I can't remember.
I said I'm questioning thisidiot, asking him if he knows
any other places.
That that's how stupid I waswhen I was.
I was just always looking forthe bigger collar when I was a
cop.
But I'm listening to the thedoor being kicked in and I'm

(57:38):
watching the top of the doormove and I'm like Chris, if they
come through, fucking shootbecause they're here to kill us.
I tell the guy grab your shitand leave, run, go out the front
where your buddy went.
He just splits.
He runs right out to the fireescape.
I pick up the knife.
I'm not going to say, hey, youdropped this.
Pick up the knife and the money.

(57:59):
I put it in my vest.
Everything's going to bevouchered as found property.
Couldn't voucher it as arrestproperty because then the guy
couldn't get his property back.
So now the knocking stops.
Two seconds later he had two orthree shots go off, shit right

(58:21):
under my feet.
I'm like that's not good.
So right away I'm thinking, allright, one of those guys
probably got shot.
This is bad.
So I grabbed the dealer and I'mthinking that the girl now they
already had the dealer in thehallway.
I'm thinking that the girl thatwas taking the collar took the

(58:46):
drugs and the scale.
I didn't look through at thekitchen, I just wanted to get
out.
I said we're going to use thisguy as a shield If they shoot.
Use him as a shield, he's ourshield.
So we walk him out, walk himout to the front.
There are a hundred people outin the street and they're all

(59:08):
pointing at the next cornersaying he went that way.
He went that way and I see aguy running and he's got a gun
on him.
I give chase.
They grab the, the perp.
They put him in a car.
He had too much distance on meso I couldn't catch him and I'm

(59:28):
thinking if he turns.
I'm going to blast him, but henever turned.
He just he just he needed toget out of there.
He was too fast.
I'm like I'm getting.
I was like two blocks away.
I'm like I'm way too far fromthe scene.
I gotta go back.
So I went back to the scene.
My boss is on the scene now.
He's like uh, what happened?
I said we made it, we made adrug buy.

(59:48):
He's like what was the shots?
I'm like I have, I said,somebody shot in the street,
right when I said that this guyis moaning.
Right, I'm standing on thestoop of the building and
there's a gated area.
This guy is moaning and I'mlike I look over.

(01:00:11):
I'm like you all right, buddy,it's like my stomach hurts.
I'm like you all right, buddy,he's like my stomach hurts.
I'm like why?
Now I know it's the guy, thefirst guy I let go.
He puts his hand out, hisstomach blowing apart.
They hit him with two rounds.
So I'm panicking.
I'm three weeks from gettingpromoted to detective.

(01:00:34):
I'm like I'm going to be heldaccountable for getting this guy
shot Because I was doing him afavor by letting him go.
Because what?
What, in essence, what theywere there for was a misdemeanor
.
They were there to buy drugs,so I didn't catch them with any
kind of weight.
So you have the.
You have the the the ability tocut people loose, if it's not a

(01:00:57):
felon.
And I cut him loose, thinking Iwas giving these guys get out
of jail free cards and thinking,screw shit, I'm going to be
held accountable If this guydies.
I'm screwed, I'm going to go tojail.
So through the night they getthe guy to the hospital.

(01:01:18):
I'm like, all right, I'm goingto keep this guy out of my book.
I'm not going to put him inMistake on my part.
It's a nonviolent felony if youdo it.
Every cop in the world has putan improper memo book entry in

(01:01:39):
their books.
That's exactly what it wasimproper memo book entry or
omitting something.
So my captain, the lieutenant atthe desk, says IAB is coming
here.
There's a guy at the precinctin 34 saying you robbed him.
I'm like, listen, nobody robbedanybody.

(01:02:00):
He's saying that you robbed himof $1,700.
I said, look, we're vouchering$1,700.
I came off a guy that was goingto buy drugs.
I cut him loose.
We didn't rob him.
The voucher's marked foundproperty.
The lieutenant didn't like me.
Matter, voucher's marked foundproperty.
But the lieutenant didn't likeme.
Matter of fact, he hated me.

(01:02:22):
He grabbed the girl cop becauseit was her collar.
She didn't want to take thecollar right away.
I said, listen, I can't takethe collar.
You got a collar.
I'll help you with thepaperwork and I did.
I helped her with all.
I'll print the guy.
I'll help you with thepaperwork, and I did.

(01:02:56):
I'll print the guy.
I'll help you with thepaperwork.
I'll get him in and out.
Just put the drugs and thescale on the table.
Let the lieutenant see it.
She says I didn't grab thedrugs or the scale.
I'm like what are you talkingabout?
She's like I didn't grab it.
I'm like that's the evidence.
Now we got to go back to theapartment and grab it.
We didn't have to go back tothe apartment.
Cops from the 3L took it andthey vouched it, which was good.
It proved that the guy wastrying to sell to me.
But the guy that was thecomplainant that was accusing me
of robbing him.
He went to the 3-four precinct.

(01:03:19):
Everything's close.
It's divided by like blocks.
So the captain that I wasreally good friends is still
good friends with him now.
He was the duty captain.
He came in he said get yourbooks up.
Is there anything I need toknow?
I said no, we're straight up,don't worry about it, everything
is cool.
He goes to the three-four.

(01:03:41):
He has it squashed.
He has the complainant getready to go, get come to the
precinct to get his money.
That's all the complainantwanted and he has it squashed
with the detectives.
No robbery, nothing.
The IAB lieutenant didn't cometo the out precinct, he went

(01:04:04):
straight to the 3-4.
He was going to interview thecomplainant to basically have
him twist the story to where Iwould be the subject of a
robbery.
He sees my captain he knowsthat Captain Lennox and I are
basically best of friends and hestarts screaming to him as my

(01:04:27):
captain's talking to thedetectives he's pointing he's
like you are not allowed to dothis investigation.
You're too close to the cop Iknow you guys are best friends.
You're off this investigationand he's the duty captain for
the borough.
So he has to investigate orrespond to all major things.

(01:04:48):
So he kind of like, yeah, yeah,whatever borough, I'll just
blow it out of your ass.
So Lieutenant Burwell was likedid you ever hear me?
I said you're off the case.
So Lennox says to thedetectives excuse me for a
second, I have to do something.
Goes up to Burwell.
He says give me your gun andshield.

(01:05:10):
You're suspended.
He was suspending him forinsubordination.
You can't talk, you're alieutenant, that's a captain.
He was suspending him forinsubordination.
You can't talk, you're alieutenant, that's a captain.
You can't talk to a higherauthority in a suggestive manner

(01:05:32):
.
And Burwell runs out of theprecinct, gets on the phone
Remember those big phones theyhad back then, the mobile phones
, the bricks, of course, yeah,he gets into his car.
He calls his commanding officer, who was a deputy inspector,
who happened to be CaptainLennox's partner when they were
cops and they walked a footbeat.

(01:05:52):
This guy, inspector King, tellsBurwell, put Captain Lennox on
the phone.
He's like listen, al, you'renot suspending Burwell.
And Lennox is like the fuck,I'm not, he's suspended.
He said well, if you're goingto suspend him, I'm suspending

(01:06:17):
you.
So Lennox says he knew thatKing smokes a lot of pot and
King lived in Staten Island.
And he says listen, you potsmoking, bastard.
You want to suspend me?
You can't do it over the phone,you got to do it in person.
Get your ass out of bed andcome to Manhattan.
All right, al, take it easy,you're not suspended.

(01:06:38):
He didn't want to get off.
He's probably too stoned, don'tworry about it.
But don't give the report, thesuspension report, a number.
This was all happening when theMarlin Commission was in full
force, was all happening whenthe Marlin Commission was in
full force.
The Marlin Commission wascreated because of Michael Dowd

(01:07:02):
from the Brooklyn precinct thatwas dirty.
So they were investigatinganybody that they thought was
dirty and they were takingpeople in for stupidest things.
And they were taking people infor the stupidest things.
So right away, lennox said okay, I'm going to give him a report
with no number, but I'm goingto give myself one with a number

(01:07:24):
.
I'm going to file it just incase the Marlin Commission did
call.
He could prove that he gave thereporter a number.
So the night pretty much wenthectic.
Burwell came back to theprecinct poking me in the chest.
He's like I got you.
Now You're going to go away.

(01:07:46):
I'm like I did my job, I didn'tdo anything wrong.
He's like I got you.
I was not a big.
They were not a fan of me.
Iab.
They did not like how I did myjob.
They knew I was a a big.
They were not a fan of me.
Iab.
They did not like how I did myjob.
They knew I was a little heavyhanded.
I was making a lot of CarlosHolt project.
They didn't like that.
I don't think they thought Iwas dirty with taking any money.

(01:08:10):
I never got accused of thatfrom them.
They just didn't like that.
I made all these Carlos Holtproject and I was a wild man.
I was too much of a that fromthem.
They just didn't like that.
I made all these colors orproject and I was a wild man.
I was too much of a cowboy forthem.
So I don't like.
Two weeks past I get called upto the pre the captain's offices
both captains up there, lennoxand Blackman and they're like

(01:08:33):
Listen, we got to take you outof plain clothes and you're not
going to get your shield.
I'm like what?
I'm like I'm a week away.
I was on the list like you'renot getting it and you're going
back in the bag now I'm fuming.
They're like and they bothapologized.
They were like listen, we knowthis is bullshit.

(01:08:54):
Once, once it gets, once it,you know, cools off, we'll get
you your shield and you go intothe bureau and you'll work in
this precinct.
The black man wanted me to workin the precinct detective squad.
So I'm like okay.
He's like what do you want to?
What do you want to work?
I said put me back in squadeight, said I don't want to work

(01:09:15):
with anybody.
What do you want to work?
I said put me back in squadeight.
So I don't want to work withanybody and I'm just going to
let you know that everybody'sgoing.
If anybody even has a joint,they're all going.
So Cap from Lennox tried tomake light of these like Pete,
does that include Jay walking?
I'm like yeah, jaywalking,jaywalkers are going.

(01:09:37):
I just have to figure out howto write the freaking ticket.
So we all laughed and I don'tknow.
Like a year passed and I didn'thear anything.
I kept asking them when I wasgoing to go back and play in
clothes.
They didn't give me an answer.
So I was down at court on anarcotics case.
I was very good friends withabout five ADAs that were in

(01:10:00):
narcotics.
Two I was really good friendswith happened.
They were both named Matt, mattByben and Matt Schwartz.
My case was with Matt Schwartzand the case was like for 500
vials and I was down there on anindictment on the 18080 day.
So he said to me listen, can youhang out after work?

(01:10:22):
I need to talk to you.
Meet me down in the Fellini's,we'll have dinner and I need to
talk to you.
It's important.
He never spoke to me like thatFellini's is a restaurant that
cops, correction officers andlawyers went to.
I said, okay, no problem, I'llbang out, I'll take the night
off.
So he met me at five.
We had dinner and he's likeokay, listen, I got bad news.

(01:10:44):
I'm like what he's like?
Special prosecution is lookingto indict you in a matter of
like three weeks on robbery.
And I knew right away.
I knew what case it was.
I'm like matt, I did my job thatnight.
I didn't rob anybody.

(01:11:05):
I said I could show you all thepaper and go over the whole
case with you.
He said let me grab Matt, canwe meet tomorrow?
Tomorrow night I said, yeah,I'll grab Danny Johnson and two
other cops that know the caseand we'll come to my house I'll
cook dinner.
My wife actually my ex-wifecooked the dinner and we ate,

(01:11:29):
and my ex-wife was also a policeofficer, a housing cop.
So we all sat at the table andwe're looking at all the
paperwork and both of thedistrict attorneys like, listen,
they can't.
You know they can indict you,but once you're going to be,
they really can't indict you.

(01:11:49):
But we all know that they canindict us a ham sandwich.
But if you beat the robberycharge, all these other bullshit
charges would be thrown out.
So don't worry about it, you'llbe back on the street in no
time.
So, like a year passed, I didget indicted.
When I did get indicted Ijumped a little.

(01:12:11):
Sorry about that.
So before I was being indictedI had to retire.
We surrender about that.
So before I was being indictedI had a retire, we surrender.
And I went to the pba lawyer'soffice.
I was also a delegate for thepba.
I represented cops when theygot in trouble.
So I knew all the bylaws, allof them, the phone rings.

(01:12:35):
He waved me in and I went inwith this girl cop that I was
good friends with.
I was actually seeing her and Iknow I was married, but I was
seeing her too.
And the phone rings.
Before we start talking hemouths to me it's the DA from
your case.

(01:12:55):
I'm going to put it on speaker.
He puts it on speaker.
Swear to God.
The first words out of thisguy's mouth was he said hello
and he said listen, I'm going tolet you know right now if the
dirty 30 never happened, yourclient wouldn't even be being

(01:13:16):
looked at.
This would have been handled atthe command level.
Are you guys familiar with the30-30?
No, 30-30 were.
They were from the 30thprecinct.
My arrest happened not my arrest, but the arrest happened in the
30th precinct.
These guys in the 30th precinct.

(01:13:40):
They were legitimately rippingoff drug dealers and assaulting
other drug dealers for drugdealers that they were working
for.
So they got locked up and it sohappened that I got in trouble.
So they got locked up and it sohappened that I got in trouble

(01:14:02):
when these idiots got in trouble.
So he says listen, if the 30-30never happened, your guy
wouldn't even be looked at.
He'd be back in the streetworking but we won $100,000 bail
.
I'm like what the fuck?
I can't talk because he can'tknow that I'm there.

(01:14:23):
So my stupid ass lawyer agreesto it.
He goes well, we're going to dothe indictment on Friday.
So you know why they did it onFriday, right?

Speaker 1 (01:14:33):
You're locked up over the weekend.
That's very clear.

Speaker 2 (01:14:39):
This was all about getting me either hurt badly or
killed and nobody else can tellme any different.
So he gets off the phone withhim.
I'm like what the fuck are youdoing?
$100,000 bail?
I said murder is I'm sorry ifI'm cursing guys, I get
emotional about this.
I said murderers and rapistsdon't get $100,000 bail.

(01:15:02):
What are you doing?
It's like it is what it is.
He said can you come up with it?
I'm like I'm going to have tocall my mother and my stepfather
and my wife.
We're going to have to put ourhouses up for collateral and I'm
going to scrape together.
I have to go into my pensionand take out $10,000.
And that's exactly what I hadto do.

(01:15:24):
We actually ended up putting uptwo houses and $10,000 bail.
So I show up on Friday and noneother than my friend's courtroom
, who I did all the cases withI'm dressed in a suit.
He looks up.
He's not looking at thepaperwork and he looks at me.

(01:15:45):
He's like what do you got forme today, pete?
What kind of warrant?
And I'm like your Honor, I'mnot here.
I couldn't even finish thesentence, the DA started
screaming.
He's not here to draw up awarrant.
He's the case in front of you.
So now the judge is like oh,hold on, wait a minute, let me

(01:16:08):
take a look at this.
I know this officer.
I've done 40 warrants with him.
He's never done a bad warrant.
I know him personally.
He looks at it Right away.
He knew it was bullshit.
He says why is he doing$100,000 bail?

(01:16:30):
Why weren't we informed aboutthis?
We don't have to inform you.
He already did the agreement.
He goes well, I want an ROR, arelease on recognizance.
Is he ready to sign theagreement, which I did?
He said okay, no problem.

(01:16:52):
He gave me a look to basicallysay listen, I'm going to do
everything in my power to helpyou and I'm going to try to keep
this case.
Problem was he was anarraignment judge.
He wasn't a case judge but atrial judge.
So he was trying to make a dealto do my trial because he knew
I wasn't pleading out the DA.

(01:17:15):
The actual DA said no, you'renot doing it, we're putting it
in the wheel and whoever gets itgets it.
They didn't know.
I knew about the wheel.
The wheel is when they put acase in it, they spin this wheel
and they pull out the ADA'sname who takes the case?

(01:17:36):
And that's how judges areassigned these cases in
Manhattan, in the boroughs, thefive boroughs.
So I get a judge named Andreasand he does my Huntley and my
MAP and my Wade hearings and ofcourse he ruled for the state

(01:17:57):
which screwed me.
So now I have to go to trial andabout a year later it's 1995.
Now I'm preparing for the trialand my PBA lawyer says I'm not
doing your trial, I'm not doingthis, you got to get another

(01:18:18):
lawyer.
I'm like I think I had like amonth to prepare.
Maybe I'm like what, what areyou talking about?
My lawyer is like we're notyour lawyer anymore.
So what they did was theyrepresented the girl cop and the
boy and the guy cop, myex-partner and they threw me to

(01:18:39):
the wolves Even though I was arepresentative.
It didn't matter because theythought they were going to lose
and they knew they weren'ttalented enough to get me off.
So I ended up getting anotherlawyer.
Lawyer paid him $25,000.
He looks at the case.
He's like listen, with yourrecord, you're not going to get

(01:19:02):
convicted.
You're I don't want to sound.
You're a collar machine.
Look at all the medals you have.
I had over 100 medals of medalsand commendations.
He's like you're a hero,they're not going to over 100
medals and commendations.
He's like you're a hero,they're not going to.
No jury will convict you andthis is a bullshit case.

(01:19:28):
Anyway, we take it to trial andhe catches four people
committing perjury.
Now it's a new judge becausethe judge that did the hearings
he didn't want to do the casebecause he was up to become an
appellate judge, so he just gaveit to his friend, judge Andreas

(01:19:55):
.
No, judge Atlas.
No, judge Atlas.
This guy hated cops, hated alllaw enforcement, anybody in law
enforcement.
He just hated people in general.
And when we found out who itwas, my lawyer was like this
isn't good, this guy hates cops.

(01:20:15):
I'm like we have no choice.
I'm not playing out, because ifI played out, I was going to get
12 to 20 years and there was noway I was pleading out to a
crime that I didn't commit.
I'm like listen, I'm supposedto be a detective.
I'm close to getting my shield.

(01:20:36):
I'm not playing out.
I'm supposed to be a detective.
I'm close to getting my shield.
I'm not playing out, I'm goingto get my job back.
He's like all right, we takeyou to trial.
He catches four peoplecommitting perjury.
Each one.
Each time he says Judge, I justcaught this guy's line.
Look at the minutes.
Judge says no, picked you,picked a jury.
I'm not.

(01:20:57):
This is not going as a mistrialand I'm not letting him off.
And the judge refused to call meOfficer Thrawn.
He called me a defendant, whichwas kind of pissing me off, but
it was pissing my lawyer offmore so.
At one point my lawyer saidjudge, can you do me a favor and

(01:21:19):
just address my client as anofficer, because he's still an
officer of the law?
It's like there's no way am Iever going to address him as an
officer?
He's the defendant and that'sit.
So I was just like I'm screwed.

(01:21:49):
So I was just like I'm screwedand the whole courtroom was
packed with a few agents from ATManhattan District Attorney's
Office.
They show up, they're sittingwith my mother and the DA waves
to them and says you know like,hey, how you doing.
They're like, yeah, screw you,you're trying to screw a good
friend.
They go back to their office inthe afternoon they got letters

(01:22:16):
on their desk saying if you showup at Pete's trial again,
you're going to be disbarred andfired.
So they called me and told methat they couldn't go.
I've tried to keep this short.
So I was found not guilty of therobbery.
They found me guilty because ofsomething that the judge pulled

(01:22:38):
when he was charging.
The jury Found me guilty oflarceny because I enabled the
guy to get his money backbecause the money was vouchered.
And they found me guilty offalsifying business records my
memo book.
But they also charged me withall the paperwork that the girl

(01:23:01):
filled out.
I got charged with herpaperwork so I had five counts
of that, never signed anything.
I didn't sign that paperworkbut they decided to charge me
with it.
I went for sentencing my captain, my lieutenant, wrote me
letters.
The captain in his letter wrotein good faith I can't condone

(01:23:30):
this and I can't stay in silentpurgatory.
I've been on plenty of OfficerTheron's arrest and because of
his arrest and his convictionI'm retiring.
So he retired because of it.
The lieutenant, who was asergeant at the time he wrote.

(01:23:51):
Actually he got promoted but hewas a sergeant when this
happened.
He wrote the judge was a copantwhen this happened, he wrote
the judge was a cop hating judge.
He hated all law enforcement.
He just convicted an innocentman.
When they got back to the, Igave them him.
They gave me the letters sealedso I didn't read them.
I gave him like 30 letters toread before he sentenced me.

(01:24:13):
He gave me an hour break beforehe did and when I went back
he's like there is no way, am Igoing to not give you the full
penalty when two bosses back acop thief?
The bosses, when they went backto their commands, was

(01:24:37):
suspended 30 days without pay.
So this had all.
This is the deepest corruptionwithin the department and the
justice system that I had seenin a long time and unfortunately
, I was part of it.
The judge ended up giving me ayear and a half to two to two to

(01:25:01):
four years actually it was ayear and a third, but it ended
up being two to four years and Iserved almost two years in
prison.
Pete.

Speaker 1 (01:25:10):
I you've explained everything.
I think the next session we'regoing to do is pick it up where
you went to prison and whatyou've done since and how you're
fighting your appeals to getthis straightened out in the New

(01:25:31):
York system.
And you know I do clemency workand when you first told me this
, this about this, you know thatit happened this way and I mean
you, you've just like testifiedfor the last hour and 20
minutes, so there'll be a parttwo to this.

(01:25:54):
Uh, we'll discuss that, and I'msure your audience has realized
the productive law enforcementwork that you've done, okay, and
that now they know why you'rethe perfect person that wrote
the book about my life and forthe criminal justice system.

(01:26:15):
You've been on both sides.
As we say, you've been on bothsides and in other podcasts that
we're going to do, I want yourperspective on it because you've
been an officer and when I sayyou were going to be a detective
, you behaved like one by makingall these collars and risking

(01:26:37):
your life, and I want thatperspective and I also want the
side of people that wereincarcerated to show what it's
like in there.
You went in as a cop, okay, sothat's a big difference and
things that happened in there.
So, anyway, I think we'll dothat with a part two, jeff, and

(01:27:02):
we'll have that and a lot of uscan learn from this and I'm
aware of.
I didn't want anybody else towrite this book, and you know
that we talked from thebeginning.
I appreciate that else to writethis book and you know that we
talked from the beginning.
I appreciate that.
And, um, you continue to praisethe profession that you were in
and, uh, I think it's time forjustice now to be on your side.

Speaker 2 (01:27:31):
Thanks for coming on today you know to me get this
clemency because you know Iwould love to get my pension and
that's something we'll talkabout.
But really I just want my nameback and I don't want people to
wonder was he dirty?
Because I never took a dime inmy life when I was working on

(01:27:54):
the job.
I made enough money withovertime I didn't need to even
think about that.
I loved doing my job and I paidthe prices.
You know my drive to become adetective was my downfall.

Speaker 1 (01:28:12):
Yeah, well, we're going to discuss that in the
future in the next one.