April 22, 2025 • 22 mins
Navigating the enforcement side of behavioral health licensing can feel like walking through a minefield, but it doesn't have to be that way. In this revealing conversation with Darrel Spinks, Executive Director of the Texas Behavioral Health Executive Council (BHEC), we pull back the curtain on what happens when complaints are filed against licensed professionals.
Spinks shares the newly revamped complaint process from initial screening through investigation, legal review, and potential hearings. With refreshing candor, he explains that frivolous complaints are dismissed without licensees ever knowing, while revealing that only about 50% of all complaints ultimately result in disciplinary action. This statistic alone should ease the anxiety many professionals feel about regulatory oversight.
The conversation takes a fascinating turn when Spinks identifies the top five violations that land practitioners in hot water: standard of care issues, sexual misconduct, dual relationships, failure to report, and unprofessional conduct. His practical advice for those under investigation—consult legal counsel, maintain proper documentation, and never ignore communications from regulators—provides a clear roadmap for professionals facing complaints.
Perhaps most valuable is Spinks' guidance on staying compliant. Beyond the expected "read your rules" recommendation, he highlights BHEC's impressive accessibility through monthly "Leadership Listening Hour" sessions and post-meeting webinars where the entire executive team makes themselves available to licensees. His unexpected caution against texting clients or connecting via social media—describing it as a "slippery slope greased with axle grease"—offers a stark warning about modern boundary challenges.
Whether you're a seasoned practitioner or new to the behavioral health field, this episode delivers practical insights to help you navigate regulatory requirements with confidence. Take advantage of the resources BHEC offers, establish clear communication boundaries, and remember that staying informed is your best defense against potential licensing issues. Ready to become more proactive about protecting your professional license? This conversation is your starting point.
__________________________________
Visit the Texas Behavioral Health Executive Council website! -
https://bhec.texas.gov/
Get more information, details and resources on Know Your Regulator - https://www.belolaw.com/know-your-regulator
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
This podcast is for educational purposes only, does
not constitute legal advice anddoes not create an
attorney-client relationship.
If you need legal assistanceabout a legal problem, contact
an attorney.
Welcome back to Know yourRegulator the podcast that
inspires you to engage.
I am your host, simone Murphree, and, if you are joining us,
(00:21):
from our last episode you heardus dive into the licensing side
of things with Daryl Spinks, theexecutive director for the
Texas Behavioral HealthExecutive Council.
In the second part of ourconversation, we're going to
shift gears and talk aboutsomething just as important
enforcement.
So we'll walk through whathappens when a complaint is
filed, how investigations unfoldand what behavioral health
(00:43):
professionals can do to protecttheir license.
We'll share some key resourcesand best practices you can use
to stay in compliance and avoidpotential issues before they
start.
So let's jump back in.
Let's look at what happens whena complaint is filed.
Can you walk us through how thecomplaint process at BHEC works
?
Speaker 2 (01:00):
Sure, and we just recently revamped our complaint
process.
So if folks want to see what itlooks like, an outline of it,
you can go to our website andclick on I think it's called
complaints and discipline orsomething like that.
It's pretty intuitive what it'slabeled.
You can go there and thenthere's a button that'll tell
you.
You know, click on that to seethe complaint process.
We've even got a flow chartthere for you.
(01:21):
You can look at that if you'recurious.
But in a nutshell, here's howit works.
Complaint comes in, it getsassigned to an investigator.
The investigator is first goingto look at it to see does it
even just on its face?
Does it allege facts that wouldconstitute a violation?
If it doesn't, then it getsflushed immediately.
We just go ahead and dismiss it.
(01:41):
Now, what are some examples ofthat?
I'll give you these are this isa real example.
Now I had a complaint come inagainst an individual, against a
psychologist.
His neighbor filed a complaintbecause his leaves were blowing
into the neighbor's pool.
That obviously has nothing todo.
Yeah, yeah, this is verydefinition of frivolous, right
(02:02):
there.
Well, you know, thatpsychologist never even knew
that complaint got filed,because we flushed it
immediately and we don't tellour licensees if we flush those.
We don't even tell them aboutthe existence of it, because we
don't want them having to telltheir insurance carrier that
somebody filed a frivolouscomplaint against them.
So they're never even going toknow it was filed.
(02:22):
But let's say, on its face itlooks like there is something
there.
The investigator is then goingto conduct a preliminary
investigation, going to reachout to the respondent or the
licensee and kind of get theirside of it, and they're going to
determine whether or not, youknow, they think there's any
fire to go along with whateversmoke they perceived from the
very beginning.
If so, it gets kicked on up tothe legal division.
(02:44):
They'll write up a report andit gets kicked up to the legal
division.
Legal will look at it and seewhether or not the attorney
thinks that they can make a caseon it and then, if they believe
they can, they'll issue what'scalled a notice of violation,
which is a more formal documentto the licensee saying okay, now
the investigator looked at it,now I've looked at it and I
(03:04):
think there's something here.
So you need to try to convinceme why there isn't, and if you
can't, then we're going to go toan informal settlement
conference, which is your chanceto convince either the attorney
or possibly a board member,depending on who the ISC panel
is made up of.
And if you can't do that, if youcan't convince them to dismiss
it, then you're either going toget an agreed order, a
(03:27):
settlement document that willcontain whatever your punishment
is going to be in the factualfindings and conclusions of law,
or you can say go pound sandgovernment, I want a hearing.
And we go over to SOA and wetry it, and it's just like a
bench trial, except it's beforean administrative law judge, not
a district judge.
Like a bench trial, except it'sbefore an administrative law
judge, not a district judge.
And from there, once the ALJrules, then it comes back into
(03:51):
the agency, back into the fold,and we just run it through the
process to decide okay, here'swhat the ALJ found, here's the
violations that constitutes andhere's the punishment according
to the schedule of sanctions.
That goes back to what I saidearlier.
The boards get to set theschedule of sanctions, remember.
So they're the ones settingwhat the appropriate punishment
is for whatever the factualfindings are.
So that's how those tietogether.
(04:12):
That's the process kind of in anutshell.
It's much more convoluted.
It looks more complicated onpaper, but that's just really
how it works.
It's not difficult tounderstand.
It's certainly not anything youever want to understand from
having to go through it.
So I would really encourageeverybody read your rules.
(04:36):
It's a good idea for folks toread when we put out our monthly
board packet or not monthly,but our tri-annual board meeting
packets.
I put all the agreed ordersthat everybody, all the naughty
things that people have done,are in there, so you can kind of
see what's getting folks introuble and then don't do that.
Stay away from that, but that'skind of my advice on that.
Speaker 3 (04:59):
Well, that's a perfect segue for my next
question, Daryl.
What would you say are some ofthe most common violations that
lead to enforcement actions?
Speaker 2 (05:09):
Here's where your viewership spikes a little bit.
Probably the biggest thing I'vegot.
I tracked down five so that Iwould be able to give you five,
if you ask me and it's standardof care.
Issues are the biggest thingsthat we see in complaints and
that's stuff like failure toprovide therapy within, you know
, in line with industry norms.
(05:29):
It's just what you wouldnormally think of as standard of
care misdiagnosis, that kind ofthing If you misdiagnose
somebody.
Sexual misconduct is number two.
Uh, I was a little surprised tosee that it was that high up,
but it is Dual relationships.
Now, sexual misconduct and dualrelationships are always going
to be like you know, twins orcousins, because oftentimes the
(05:54):
one leads into the other if it'snot caught or stopped pretty
soon.
Failure to report would benumber four.
Failure to reporture to reportcriminal offenses or
disciplinary actions in otherstates, and that one is such a
silly thing to get hung up on byus and I'll talk to you a
little bit about why in just asecond.
And then, lastly, isunprofessional conduct, and
(06:17):
that's different from standardof care in that unprofessional
conduct are actions orcommunications that typically
just upset the client.
Inappropriate commentsnon-sexual but inappropriate
comments, or you're just rude weget a lot of complaints about.
Well, I just don't feel likeyou know he was very
understanding and I'm like well,maybe you needed to be told
(06:38):
something you didn't like.
You know we're not going tosanction somebody for calling
you on the carpet when you wentto them because your behavior
was problematic to begin with.
So you know, those are the fivebig things you know on the
failure report.
I just want to take a littlebit of liberty on that.
I know people view us as kind ofthe monster that hides in the
(07:01):
night looking to snatch yourlicense away and statistically,
when you look at it, that's justreally not the truth.
When you look at the number ofpeople that we actually
discipline versus the number ofcomplaints we receive, 50
percent of the complaints thatcome in result in some sort of
disciplinary action.
It's not much.
So if you are, if you areafraid to report that you got
(07:23):
caught streaking on South PadreIsland, you're a fool.
Nobody cares that you wentstreaking on South Padre Island.
You know, unless you're an axemurderer, it's really hard to,
or unless you commit some sortof an offense that is related to
what you're practicing or inconnection with your practice.
(07:44):
That is related to what you'repracticing or in connection with
your practice, it's just reallyhard for us to want to do
anything, much less do anythingto you as a result of some poor
judgment.
The criminal system is there topunish and try to redirect your
bad decision making.
We don't need to pile on unlessit's something related to us.
(08:05):
So I always tell people I'mlike, look, just report it.
It's, you know, nine times outof 10, it's not going to be a
problem, it's just when youdon't report it.
It's 100% of the time a problemin that case.
So that's the only thing Iwould mention there case.
Speaker 1 (08:29):
So that's the only thing I would mention there.
Yeah, I mean, I have alwaysfelt honesty is the best policy.
Sometimes you start lying andyou get so deep into that lie
you got to lie on top of it andso I think, yeah, that's good.
Just be honest and forthcoming,and you know that that right
there is the testament to yourcharacter.
Um, good, good advice.
Um, let's say that a licenseholder does find themselves
(08:50):
under investigation.
What should they do?
Speaker 2 (08:54):
Okay.
So I know I'm giving a podcastwith a law firm here and I know
this is going to sound verystrange coming from me, but I
would consult with legal counselfirst.
I'm the government and here Iam telling you you need to go
talk to a lawyer before you talkto us.
Now, full disclosure.
I'm not telling folks thatbecause I want to be noble or
magnanimous or anything.
(09:15):
I'm telling you that because itis so much easier for us to
deal with an attorney than it isa pro se party or a respondent
licensee.
My folks are really good atdoing notes, writing reports
within their field, and they areterrible at responding to our
preliminary investigationnotices or really responding to
(09:35):
the information and giving usthe information we need.
They're usually so distraught,they're nervous, understandably,
but that definitely affectsyour ability to be an effective
communicator with us and anattorney kind of gives you that
separation, that degree ofseparation and that objectivity.
Plus they typically know how westructure.
(09:55):
It's a very structured formatthat we use on our notices that
go out, and so usually, onceyou've been practicing with us,
you know what it looks like.
It's very easy for the attorneyto kick out a response and then
they also point us to theevidence and the record that we
need to know to help us make adecision and make our
investigation go quicker.
(10:16):
So the first thing, go talk toa lawyer.
You know, that's the biggestthing out there for us, just
because let them hold your handso that we don't have to, is
really what it is, and I don'tmean that to sound snotty or
anything, but it just that's apractical, that's just a
practical truth.
Speaker 1 (10:34):
Right.
Speaker 2 (10:36):
The other thing that I would say is, if you find
yourself in trouble, make sureyou you gather up and you keep
all the relevant documentationand for heaven's sakes, don't
start changing stuff, becausethere's where you really get
yourself into trouble, but notonly with us, but that could
very well be a crime, you know,especially if, like, insurance
is involved, anything like that.
(10:56):
Make sure you make notes aboutany anything, any conversations
you've had that maybe aren'tdocumented in the record, just
make sure you make some notes.
If you had some kind ofconversation, or if your staff
had some kind of some sort ofconversation with a relevant
person, make sure they'venotated that that way, because
as this thing progresses down,you know may forget, you may
(11:19):
need something to refresh yourmemory going forward.
So just do all of that.
And the last thing do notignore us.
That is one of the mostfrustrating things is when
people just blow us off andthey're like well, I guess it'll
go away, or it's just who cares.
I'm like, well, that was a bigmistake, because now it really
(11:41):
doesn't matter if it was a BSclaim against you.
Now you've ignored and you'vefailed to cooperate with an
investigation that is now takingprimacy in the investigatory
process.
So that's probably what you'regoing to get dinged on is the
failure to cooperate.
Even if it turns out theinitial complaint was maybe, you
(12:02):
know, pointless or there justwasn't anything there, we would
have agreed with you that itwasn't worth pursuing.
But now, because you ignored usand you made us expend and jump
through all these extra hoops toget you into the system, you're
going to have to pay for that.
So in that, I don't I'm nottrying to sound, you know,
overly dictatorial there oranything like that but you have
(12:24):
to do that.
You kind of have to holdpeople's feet to the fire.
That's part of again being aprofessional.
You have now subjugatedyourself to this and you need to
honor that.
It's a contract.
We have given you a monopoly topractice in this profession and
you need to respond to uswhenever we have questions about
how you've conducted yourself.
So that's the trade-off.
Speaker 3 (12:47):
So, Daryl, one question that I'd like to bring
up almost in every podcast ishow do these investigations get
sent to the clients?
Speaker 2 (12:58):
Like our licensee.
Speaker 3 (13:00):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (13:02):
So if we move forward , then whatever the complaint
that sends us, we share thatwith the respondent licensee.
We have an open file policy.
The only thing that doesn't getshared is the investigator's
report, because it's like apolice report, it's more of an
internal document.
But everything else goes.
Uh, the the licensee has accessto everything.
(13:24):
Um, we don't, we don't redact.
Uh, there's no.
People can file anonymouscomplaints, but the chances of
an anonymous complaint actuallygoing anywhere are slim to none
unless I can objectively verify.
Here's an example.
(13:48):
If somebody says, hey, daryl'sout there advertised that he's a
psychologist when he's not onhis side at his office, well, I
could go look at that, take apicture and go yeah, you violate
the law, but we have anonymouscomplaints.
Come in all the time.
That says you know well,daryl's cheating insurance and
you need to look into his files.
I'm like well, I'm not going tosubpoena all his patient
records to see who he's.
You know, I'm not going to goon a fishing expedition, so that
kind of stuff just goes away.
(14:09):
But you know, that's really.
I mean, that's it.
We have an open file policy.
You're going to get to seewhatever we got to see and
whatever we're going to use attrial.
You're going to get to see that, so there's not going to be any
gotcha.
No-transcript.
Speaker 3 (14:29):
Okay, I appreciate that.
In addition to that, what wouldyou say are some preventative
steps license holders can taketo stay in compliance and to
avoid complaints?
Speaker 2 (14:43):
Read the rules.
I mean, stay up to date on therules, and I'm not saying you
have to study them every week,every month, but you ought to
study them.
You ought to study them afterevery council meeting.
And here's why Because anychanges that will have occurred
have to have occurred.
Only the council can propose andadopt rules.
Remember, they may come fromthe member boards, but it's only
(15:04):
the council that can proposeand adopt them.
So you don't have to beconstantly watching for new
changes.
You just have to watch aftereach council meeting and,
honestly, we publish a PDF onour website.
It's under the statutes andrules sections.
There's a PDF and we actuallylist all the changes that we
(15:24):
made in that particular rule, Ithink going back a year.
So you can flip through thatand just look and see.
Oh, that might be somethingthat pertains to me and I'll go
look at that.
Also.
Every council meeting, when wepropose new rules, we have a web
page that's dedicated to.
If you want to give publiccomment I mean, you can give
public comment but if you justwant to look at what the change
(15:46):
is, just click on that web pageand click on the rule and it
will show you the strikethroughs, the underlines.
It'll show you what changeswere being proposed, so you can
kind of keep track that way, ofwhat's going on.
Now, does this require a littlebit of work on your part as a
professional?
Absolutely, but again, you're aprofessional, that's part of it
, you know.
So I don't have a lot ofsympathy for you there.
(16:09):
Maybe that's just me being alawyer, but I don't have a lot
of sympathy for you if you're.
If you claim well, I didn'tknow, you know, I've done
everything I can to make it easyfor you to know, right.
Speaker 1 (16:23):
Right, yeah, hey, no, you want to.
You want to get in, the, getyour head in the ball game.
I don't know, I don't have agood analogy for that, but yeah
no that makes sense.
You know, you, you're, you're onthis train man, you know and
that's.
You can't just get off when youwant to.
You got to wait for your stopand so while you're riding you
need to make sure that you'rebeing a law abiding passenger,
(16:47):
kind of on that.
Same again, same wavelength,what, what other kinds of
resources?
I know we've named a few.
You've talked about thenewsletter.
You've talked about boardmeeting minutes and taking a
look at that.
Are there other resources thatBHEC offers that can help
(17:07):
professionals stay compliant andupdated on rules and renewals
and enforcement trends, thingslike that?
Speaker 2 (17:14):
I'll tell you what we have started doing and I
personally enjoy doing it is wehave after every council meeting
, so three times a year we havesomething called Insights Over
the Lunch Hour, which is wherestaff put on executive staff put
on a webinar and we outline allthe major rule changes that
(17:35):
were adopted, and I thinksometimes we even do the stuff
that was proposed, but then wealso open it up to questions
after that, and I don't, I meanyou can ask me what my favorite
color is, whatever.
It's all fair game.
The only thing I won't talkabout is a pending application
or a pending complaint.
But then every month we also dosomething called.
It's like listening over thelunch hour.
(17:56):
I forget you'd think I wouldremember this since I set it up,
but it's basically it's just alistening session where you get
me, my deputy, my GC, all myboard administrators If they're
practice related, if you justwant to gripe about, you know
this rule stinks.
We don't like the way it works.
Okay, you can tell us and thenwe'll just answer you right then
(18:18):
, or you know we'll talk to youabout why something is that way.
So we're trying to make it.
We're not a small agency, but Ithink we're probably the only
agency that does this.
I don't know of another agencythat puts their entire executive
(18:40):
team out there in a webinar andsays I don't either.
Yeah, and when we get a lot ofhard questions that are
sometimes hard to, you got to bewilling to take some arrows,
sure.
Speaker 3 (18:46):
Yeah, and and Daryl, the name of it is leadership
listening hour, Cause I I?
Speaker 1 (18:50):
attend those.
Speaker 2 (18:51):
I was going to say Melissa's seen a few of them,
yeah, I'm ashamed to say Ididn't even know the name of the
listening hour, but there it is.
She got it.
Speaker 1 (19:01):
That's awesome, though that is just like you
said.
I don't know of another agencythat does that too, and I think
that is so great for licenseholders there.
Gosh, you really can't comeback and say I didn't know.
When it comes to the behavioralhealth executive council, you
really can't come back and say Ididn't know.
When it comes to the BehavioralHealth Executive Council, you
guys are really giving licenseholders tons of options and
opportunities to make theirvoices heard and understand
(19:24):
completely what the rules aresurrounding their professions
Fantastic.
Speaker 3 (19:31):
Daryl, what would you say is one key piece of advice
you'd give to behavioral healthprofessionals to protect their
licensing careers?
Speaker 2 (19:42):
Maintain good communications with your clients
and your patients.
Well, let me back up.
Number one stay abreast, staycurrent on what the rules and
regs are.
It's really not that hard, it'sjust not.
The substantive componentsreally don't change that much,
so it shouldn't be that hard.
Number two make sure yourespond to emails, inquiries,
(20:08):
attempts to communicate fromyour clients or your patients,
whatever you call them.
Oddly enough, this third one isgoing to sound strange, but I
always tell people I'm likedon't text, stay off social
media with your clients.
I'm not saying you don't needto have a Facebook page for
friends and family and you knowgoofy stuff that you want to do,
(20:29):
but I see more.
I'm telling you right now, textmessaging and social media is
like a slippery slope, you know,greased with axle grease.
I just see almost nothing goodcome about of it whenever people
start doing that and it takesyou right into a pit of problems
that if you just hadn'tresponded on the weekend to that
(20:51):
one text, it never would havestarted snowballing into
something else.
So if there was one thing Icould do to get my licensees, I
would be like quit texting, quitallowing your patients, your
clients, to text you.
If it were me, I wouldn't evendo it, for, hey, I'm going to be
late to this appointment.
I would say you need to call mysecretary or send an email, but
(21:19):
you're never going to have mypersonal cell phone number.
That is probably.
That's one of the biggestdangers that I see as the
executive director of thisagency, and it's true across all
the professions.
It's not, it's not justpsychology, it's not counseling.
It's true against you know,across all of them.
So I would just avoid that ifat all possible.
Now, I know there's a bigschool of thought out there that
disagrees with me on that, butI see it as very dangerous.
Speaker 1 (21:42):
Yeah, I can definitely see where those lines
may get blurred when it comesto social media texting and
things like that.
And you know, these were notissues that we were having 20
years ago.
So it's all you know.
It's all new, and with newtechnology always comes new
regulations.
So, yeah, absolutely, I meanit's good to be aware of that.
(22:05):
So well, thank you, daryl, somuch for your time this
afternoon and sharing yourinsights with our team and our
viewers.
I mean this has just been areally great episode, full of
takeaways.
Good.
Speaker 2 (22:21):
It's a pleasure meeting two of you and doing
this.
Speaker 3 (22:24):
Yes, sir, thank you.
Speaker 1 (22:27):
And thank you to our listeners as well.
If you would like to learn moreabout BHEX rules, licensing,
updates or enforcement policies,please visit the website below
in our description.
Don't forget to subscribe toKnow your Regulator for more
episodes breaking down theseTexas rules and regulations.
Until next time, stay inspiredand continue engaging with your
(22:47):
regulatory agency.
Speaker 2 (22:49):
Know your.
Speaker 1 (22:50):
Regulator the podcast that inspires you to engage.
This podcast is for educational purposes only, does
not constitute legal advice anddoes not create an
attorney-client relationship.
If you need legal assistanceabout a legal problem, contact
an attorney.
Welcome back to Know yourRegulator the podcast that
inspires you to engage.
I am your host, simone Murphree, and, if you are joining us,
(00:21):
from our last episode you heardus dive into the licensing side
of things with Daryl Spinks, theexecutive director for the
Texas Behavioral HealthExecutive Council.
In the second part of ourconversation, we're going to
shift gears and talk aboutsomething just as important
enforcement.
So we'll walk through whathappens when a complaint is
filed, how investigations unfoldand what behavioral health
(00:43):
professionals can do to protecttheir license.
We'll share some key resourcesand best practices you can use
to stay in compliance and avoidpotential issues before they
start.
So let's jump back in.
Let's look at what happens whena complaint is filed.
Can you walk us through how thecomplaint process at BHEC works
?
Speaker 2 (01:00):
Sure, and we just recently revamped our complaint
process.
So if folks want to see what itlooks like, an outline of it,
you can go to our website andclick on I think it's called
complaints and discipline orsomething like that.
It's pretty intuitive what it'slabeled.
You can go there and thenthere's a button that'll tell
you.
You know, click on that to seethe complaint process.
We've even got a flow chartthere for you.
(01:21):
You can look at that if you'recurious.
But in a nutshell, here's howit works.
Complaint comes in, it getsassigned to an investigator.
The investigator is first goingto look at it to see does it
even just on its face?
Does it allege facts that wouldconstitute a violation?
If it doesn't, then it getsflushed immediately.
We just go ahead and dismiss it.
(01:41):
Now, what are some examples ofthat?
I'll give you these are this isa real example.
Now I had a complaint come inagainst an individual, against a
psychologist.
His neighbor filed a complaintbecause his leaves were blowing
into the neighbor's pool.
That obviously has nothing todo.
Yeah, yeah, this is verydefinition of frivolous, right
(02:02):
there.
Well, you know, thatpsychologist never even knew
that complaint got filed,because we flushed it
immediately and we don't tellour licensees if we flush those.
We don't even tell them aboutthe existence of it, because we
don't want them having to telltheir insurance carrier that
somebody filed a frivolouscomplaint against them.
So they're never even going toknow it was filed.
(02:22):
But let's say, on its face itlooks like there is something
there.
The investigator is then goingto conduct a preliminary
investigation, going to reachout to the respondent or the
licensee and kind of get theirside of it, and they're going to
determine whether or not, youknow, they think there's any
fire to go along with whateversmoke they perceived from the
very beginning.
If so, it gets kicked on up tothe legal division.
(02:44):
They'll write up a report andit gets kicked up to the legal
division.
Legal will look at it and seewhether or not the attorney
thinks that they can make a caseon it and then, if they believe
they can, they'll issue what'scalled a notice of violation,
which is a more formal documentto the licensee saying okay, now
the investigator looked at it,now I've looked at it and I
(03:04):
think there's something here.
So you need to try to convinceme why there isn't, and if you
can't, then we're going to go toan informal settlement
conference, which is your chanceto convince either the attorney
or possibly a board member,depending on who the ISC panel
is made up of.
And if you can't do that, if youcan't convince them to dismiss
it, then you're either going toget an agreed order, a
(03:27):
settlement document that willcontain whatever your punishment
is going to be in the factualfindings and conclusions of law,
or you can say go pound sandgovernment, I want a hearing.
And we go over to SOA and wetry it, and it's just like a
bench trial, except it's beforean administrative law judge, not
a district judge.
Like a bench trial, except it'sbefore an administrative law
judge, not a district judge.
And from there, once the ALJrules, then it comes back into
(03:51):
the agency, back into the fold,and we just run it through the
process to decide okay, here'swhat the ALJ found, here's the
violations that constitutes andhere's the punishment according
to the schedule of sanctions.
That goes back to what I saidearlier.
The boards get to set theschedule of sanctions, remember.
So they're the ones settingwhat the appropriate punishment
is for whatever the factualfindings are.
So that's how those tietogether.
(04:12):
That's the process kind of in anutshell.
It's much more convoluted.
It looks more complicated onpaper, but that's just really
how it works.
It's not difficult tounderstand.
It's certainly not anything youever want to understand from
having to go through it.
So I would really encourageeverybody read your rules.
(04:36):
It's a good idea for folks toread when we put out our monthly
board packet or not monthly,but our tri-annual board meeting
packets.
I put all the agreed ordersthat everybody, all the naughty
things that people have done,are in there, so you can kind of
see what's getting folks introuble and then don't do that.
Stay away from that, but that'skind of my advice on that.
Speaker 3 (04:59):
Well, that's a perfect segue for my next
question, Daryl.
What would you say are some ofthe most common violations that
lead to enforcement actions?
Speaker 2 (05:09):
Here's where your viewership spikes a little bit.
Probably the biggest thing I'vegot.
I tracked down five so that Iwould be able to give you five,
if you ask me and it's standardof care.
Issues are the biggest thingsthat we see in complaints and
that's stuff like failure toprovide therapy within, you know
, in line with industry norms.
(05:29):
It's just what you wouldnormally think of as standard of
care misdiagnosis, that kind ofthing If you misdiagnose
somebody.
Sexual misconduct is number two.
Uh, I was a little surprised tosee that it was that high up,
but it is Dual relationships.
Now, sexual misconduct and dualrelationships are always going
to be like you know, twins orcousins, because oftentimes the
(05:54):
one leads into the other if it'snot caught or stopped pretty
soon.
Failure to report would benumber four.
Failure to reporture to reportcriminal offenses or
disciplinary actions in otherstates, and that one is such a
silly thing to get hung up on byus and I'll talk to you a
little bit about why in just asecond.
And then, lastly, isunprofessional conduct, and
(06:17):
that's different from standardof care in that unprofessional
conduct are actions orcommunications that typically
just upset the client.
Inappropriate commentsnon-sexual but inappropriate
comments, or you're just rude weget a lot of complaints about.
Well, I just don't feel likeyou know he was very
understanding and I'm like well,maybe you needed to be told
(06:38):
something you didn't like.
You know we're not going tosanction somebody for calling
you on the carpet when you wentto them because your behavior
was problematic to begin with.
So you know, those are the fivebig things you know on the
failure report.
I just want to take a littlebit of liberty on that.
I know people view us as kind ofthe monster that hides in the
(07:01):
night looking to snatch yourlicense away and statistically,
when you look at it, that's justreally not the truth.
When you look at the number ofpeople that we actually
discipline versus the number ofcomplaints we receive, 50
percent of the complaints thatcome in result in some sort of
disciplinary action.
It's not much.
So if you are, if you areafraid to report that you got
(07:23):
caught streaking on South PadreIsland, you're a fool.
Nobody cares that you wentstreaking on South Padre Island.
You know, unless you're an axemurderer, it's really hard to,
or unless you commit some sortof an offense that is related to
what you're practicing or inconnection with your practice.
(07:44):
That is related to what you'repracticing or in connection with
your practice, it's just reallyhard for us to want to do
anything, much less do anythingto you as a result of some poor
judgment.
The criminal system is there topunish and try to redirect your
bad decision making.
We don't need to pile on unlessit's something related to us.
(08:05):
So I always tell people I'mlike, look, just report it.
It's, you know, nine times outof 10, it's not going to be a
problem, it's just when youdon't report it.
It's 100% of the time a problemin that case.
So that's the only thing Iwould mention there case.
Speaker 1 (08:29):
So that's the only thing I would mention there.
Yeah, I mean, I have alwaysfelt honesty is the best policy.
Sometimes you start lying andyou get so deep into that lie
you got to lie on top of it andso I think, yeah, that's good.
Just be honest and forthcoming,and you know that that right
there is the testament to yourcharacter.
Um, good, good advice.
Um, let's say that a licenseholder does find themselves
(08:50):
under investigation.
What should they do?
Speaker 2 (08:54):
Okay.
So I know I'm giving a podcastwith a law firm here and I know
this is going to sound verystrange coming from me, but I
would consult with legal counselfirst.
I'm the government and here Iam telling you you need to go
talk to a lawyer before you talkto us.
Now, full disclosure.
I'm not telling folks thatbecause I want to be noble or
magnanimous or anything.
(09:15):
I'm telling you that because itis so much easier for us to
deal with an attorney than it isa pro se party or a respondent
licensee.
My folks are really good atdoing notes, writing reports
within their field, and they areterrible at responding to our
preliminary investigationnotices or really responding to
(09:35):
the information and giving usthe information we need.
They're usually so distraught,they're nervous, understandably,
but that definitely affectsyour ability to be an effective
communicator with us and anattorney kind of gives you that
separation, that degree ofseparation and that objectivity.
Plus they typically know how westructure.
(09:55):
It's a very structured formatthat we use on our notices that
go out, and so usually, onceyou've been practicing with us,
you know what it looks like.
It's very easy for the attorneyto kick out a response and then
they also point us to theevidence and the record that we
need to know to help us make adecision and make our
investigation go quicker.
(10:16):
So the first thing, go talk toa lawyer.
You know, that's the biggestthing out there for us, just
because let them hold your handso that we don't have to, is
really what it is, and I don'tmean that to sound snotty or
anything, but it just that's apractical, that's just a
practical truth.
Speaker 1 (10:34):
Right.
Speaker 2 (10:36):
The other thing that I would say is, if you find
yourself in trouble, make sureyou you gather up and you keep
all the relevant documentationand for heaven's sakes, don't
start changing stuff, becausethere's where you really get
yourself into trouble, but notonly with us, but that could
very well be a crime, you know,especially if, like, insurance
is involved, anything like that.
(10:56):
Make sure you make notes aboutany anything, any conversations
you've had that maybe aren'tdocumented in the record, just
make sure you make some notes.
If you had some kind ofconversation, or if your staff
had some kind of some sort ofconversation with a relevant
person, make sure they'venotated that that way, because
as this thing progresses down,you know may forget, you may
(11:19):
need something to refresh yourmemory going forward.
So just do all of that.
And the last thing do notignore us.
That is one of the mostfrustrating things is when
people just blow us off andthey're like well, I guess it'll
go away, or it's just who cares.
I'm like, well, that was a bigmistake, because now it really
(11:41):
doesn't matter if it was a BSclaim against you.
Now you've ignored and you'vefailed to cooperate with an
investigation that is now takingprimacy in the investigatory
process.
So that's probably what you'regoing to get dinged on is the
failure to cooperate.
Even if it turns out theinitial complaint was maybe, you
(12:02):
know, pointless or there justwasn't anything there, we would
have agreed with you that itwasn't worth pursuing.
But now, because you ignored usand you made us expend and jump
through all these extra hoops toget you into the system, you're
going to have to pay for that.
So in that, I don't I'm nottrying to sound, you know,
overly dictatorial there oranything like that but you have
(12:24):
to do that.
You kind of have to holdpeople's feet to the fire.
That's part of again being aprofessional.
You have now subjugatedyourself to this and you need to
honor that.
It's a contract.
We have given you a monopoly topractice in this profession and
you need to respond to uswhenever we have questions about
how you've conducted yourself.
So that's the trade-off.
Speaker 3 (12:47):
So, Daryl, one question that I'd like to bring
up almost in every podcast ishow do these investigations get
sent to the clients?
Speaker 2 (12:58):
Like our licensee.
Speaker 3 (13:00):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (13:02):
So if we move forward , then whatever the complaint
that sends us, we share thatwith the respondent licensee.
We have an open file policy.
The only thing that doesn't getshared is the investigator's
report, because it's like apolice report, it's more of an
internal document.
But everything else goes.
Uh, the the licensee has accessto everything.
(13:24):
Um, we don't, we don't redact.
Uh, there's no.
People can file anonymouscomplaints, but the chances of
an anonymous complaint actuallygoing anywhere are slim to none
unless I can objectively verify.
Here's an example.
(13:48):
If somebody says, hey, daryl'sout there advertised that he's a
psychologist when he's not onhis side at his office, well, I
could go look at that, take apicture and go yeah, you violate
the law, but we have anonymouscomplaints.
Come in all the time.
That says you know well,daryl's cheating insurance and
you need to look into his files.
I'm like well, I'm not going tosubpoena all his patient
records to see who he's.
You know, I'm not going to goon a fishing expedition, so that
kind of stuff just goes away.
(14:09):
But you know, that's really.
I mean, that's it.
We have an open file policy.
You're going to get to seewhatever we got to see and
whatever we're going to use attrial.
You're going to get to see that, so there's not going to be any
gotcha.
No-transcript.
Speaker 3 (14:29):
Okay, I appreciate that.
In addition to that, what wouldyou say are some preventative
steps license holders can taketo stay in compliance and to
avoid complaints?
Speaker 2 (14:43):
Read the rules.
I mean, stay up to date on therules, and I'm not saying you
have to study them every week,every month, but you ought to
study them.
You ought to study them afterevery council meeting.
And here's why Because anychanges that will have occurred
have to have occurred.
Only the council can propose andadopt rules.
Remember, they may come fromthe member boards, but it's only
(15:04):
the council that can proposeand adopt them.
So you don't have to beconstantly watching for new
changes.
You just have to watch aftereach council meeting and,
honestly, we publish a PDF onour website.
It's under the statutes andrules sections.
There's a PDF and we actuallylist all the changes that we
(15:24):
made in that particular rule, Ithink going back a year.
So you can flip through thatand just look and see.
Oh, that might be somethingthat pertains to me and I'll go
look at that.
Also.
Every council meeting, when wepropose new rules, we have a web
page that's dedicated to.
If you want to give publiccomment I mean, you can give
public comment but if you justwant to look at what the change
(15:46):
is, just click on that web pageand click on the rule and it
will show you the strikethroughs, the underlines.
It'll show you what changeswere being proposed, so you can
kind of keep track that way, ofwhat's going on.
Now, does this require a littlebit of work on your part as a
professional?
Absolutely, but again, you're aprofessional, that's part of it
, you know.
So I don't have a lot ofsympathy for you there.
(16:09):
Maybe that's just me being alawyer, but I don't have a lot
of sympathy for you if you're.
If you claim well, I didn'tknow, you know, I've done
everything I can to make it easyfor you to know, right.
Speaker 1 (16:23):
Right, yeah, hey, no, you want to.
You want to get in, the, getyour head in the ball game.
I don't know, I don't have agood analogy for that, but yeah
no that makes sense.
You know, you, you're, you're onthis train man, you know and
that's.
You can't just get off when youwant to.
You got to wait for your stopand so while you're riding you
need to make sure that you'rebeing a law abiding passenger,
(16:47):
kind of on that.
Same again, same wavelength,what, what other kinds of
resources?
I know we've named a few.
You've talked about thenewsletter.
You've talked about boardmeeting minutes and taking a
look at that.
Are there other resources thatBHEC offers that can help
(17:07):
professionals stay compliant andupdated on rules and renewals
and enforcement trends, thingslike that?
Speaker 2 (17:14):
I'll tell you what we have started doing and I
personally enjoy doing it is wehave after every council meeting
, so three times a year we havesomething called Insights Over
the Lunch Hour, which is wherestaff put on executive staff put
on a webinar and we outline allthe major rule changes that
(17:35):
were adopted, and I thinksometimes we even do the stuff
that was proposed, but then wealso open it up to questions
after that, and I don't, I meanyou can ask me what my favorite
color is, whatever.
It's all fair game.
The only thing I won't talkabout is a pending application
or a pending complaint.
But then every month we also dosomething called.
It's like listening over thelunch hour.
(17:56):
I forget you'd think I wouldremember this since I set it up,
but it's basically it's just alistening session where you get
me, my deputy, my GC, all myboard administrators If they're
practice related, if you justwant to gripe about, you know
this rule stinks.
We don't like the way it works.
Okay, you can tell us and thenwe'll just answer you right then
(18:18):
, or you know we'll talk to youabout why something is that way.
So we're trying to make it.
We're not a small agency, but Ithink we're probably the only
agency that does this.
I don't know of another agencythat puts their entire executive
(18:40):
team out there in a webinar andsays I don't either.
Yeah, and when we get a lot ofhard questions that are
sometimes hard to, you got to bewilling to take some arrows,
sure.
Speaker 3 (18:46):
Yeah, and and Daryl, the name of it is leadership
listening hour, Cause I I?
Speaker 1 (18:50):
attend those.
Speaker 2 (18:51):
I was going to say Melissa's seen a few of them,
yeah, I'm ashamed to say Ididn't even know the name of the
listening hour, but there it is.
She got it.
Speaker 1 (19:01):
That's awesome, though that is just like you
said.
I don't know of another agencythat does that too, and I think
that is so great for licenseholders there.
Gosh, you really can't comeback and say I didn't know.
When it comes to the behavioralhealth executive council, you
really can't come back and say Ididn't know.
When it comes to the BehavioralHealth Executive Council, you
guys are really giving licenseholders tons of options and
opportunities to make theirvoices heard and understand
(19:24):
completely what the rules aresurrounding their professions
Fantastic.
Speaker 3 (19:31):
Daryl, what would you say is one key piece of advice
you'd give to behavioral healthprofessionals to protect their
licensing careers?
Speaker 2 (19:42):
Maintain good communications with your clients
and your patients.
Well, let me back up.
Number one stay abreast, staycurrent on what the rules and
regs are.
It's really not that hard, it'sjust not.
The substantive componentsreally don't change that much,
so it shouldn't be that hard.
Number two make sure yourespond to emails, inquiries,
(20:08):
attempts to communicate fromyour clients or your patients,
whatever you call them.
Oddly enough, this third one isgoing to sound strange, but I
always tell people I'm likedon't text, stay off social
media with your clients.
I'm not saying you don't needto have a Facebook page for
friends and family and you knowgoofy stuff that you want to do,
(20:29):
but I see more.
I'm telling you right now, textmessaging and social media is
like a slippery slope, you know,greased with axle grease.
I just see almost nothing goodcome about of it whenever people
start doing that and it takesyou right into a pit of problems
that if you just hadn'tresponded on the weekend to that
(20:51):
one text, it never would havestarted snowballing into
something else.
So if there was one thing Icould do to get my licensees, I
would be like quit texting, quitallowing your patients, your
clients, to text you.
If it were me, I wouldn't evendo it, for, hey, I'm going to be
late to this appointment.
I would say you need to call mysecretary or send an email, but
(21:19):
you're never going to have mypersonal cell phone number.
That is probably.
That's one of the biggestdangers that I see as the
executive director of thisagency, and it's true across all
the professions.
It's not, it's not justpsychology, it's not counseling.
It's true against you know,across all of them.
So I would just avoid that ifat all possible.
Now, I know there's a bigschool of thought out there that
disagrees with me on that, butI see it as very dangerous.
Speaker 1 (21:42):
Yeah, I can definitely see where those lines
may get blurred when it comesto social media texting and
things like that.
And you know, these were notissues that we were having 20
years ago.
So it's all you know.
It's all new, and with newtechnology always comes new
regulations.
So, yeah, absolutely, I meanit's good to be aware of that.
(22:05):
So well, thank you, daryl, somuch for your time this
afternoon and sharing yourinsights with our team and our
viewers.
I mean this has just been areally great episode, full of
takeaways.
Good.
Speaker 2 (22:21):
It's a pleasure meeting two of you and doing
this.
Speaker 3 (22:24):
Yes, sir, thank you.
Speaker 1 (22:27):
And thank you to our listeners as well.
If you would like to learn moreabout BHEX rules, licensing,
updates or enforcement policies,please visit the website below
in our description.
Don't forget to subscribe toKnow your Regulator for more
episodes breaking down theseTexas rules and regulations.
Until next time, stay inspiredand continue engaging with your
(22:47):
regulatory agency.
Speaker 2 (22:49):
Know your.
Speaker 1 (22:50):
Regulator the podcast that inspires you to engage.
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!