Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
This podcast is for
educational purposes only, does
not constitute legal advice anddoes not create an
attorney-client relationship.
If you need legal assistanceabout a legal problem, contact
an attorney.
Welcome back to Know yourRegulator the podcast that
inspires you to engage.
I am your host, simone Murphy,and today's episode touches
(00:21):
something that nearly all of ususe every day social media.
How can it put yourprofessional license at risk?
We're joined by someone whoknows this issue inside and out,
tony Bertolino, managingpartner at the Bertolino Law
Firm and author of our mostrecent newsletter article titled
Social Media in yourProfessional Occupational
(00:42):
License.
Tony, thank you so much forjoining us.
Speaker 2 (00:45):
Absolutely.
Thank you for having me, simone, and I'm glad that we're
touching on this topic, becauseit's a topic that requires a
good conversation thatprofessionals need to have
regarding social media, so I'mreally happy that you're
presenting such a topic to thepublic you know you're
presenting such a topic to thepublic.
Speaker 1 (01:10):
Absolutely, it is.
It's very, very topical andsuper important for licensed
professionals to not only knowof but completely understand.
So let's start at the top.
Social media is more than justdaily life, but your article
makes it very clear for licensedprofessionals it's more than
just posts and pics.
What's the big picture ideahere?
Speaker 2 (01:28):
Well, what we've seen
over the past decade or so is
that licensing boards, reallyacross all professions in Texas,
are treating social mediaconduct the same way they treat
in-person professional behavioror even misbehavior.
And that means that you knowthese off the cuff kind of posts
and shared memes and you knoweven comment threads, could be
(01:51):
interpreted as an unprofessionalconduct by a board and could
subject a license holder to aninvestigation for misconduct,
especially if this conductviolates privacy rules or
ethical guidelines that arecreated by these licensing
agencies.
Speaker 1 (02:10):
Yeah, absolutely.
It sounds very serious and, youknow, was not something that
people really had to worry about20, 30 years ago.
It's definitely changedthroughout how technology has
evolved throughout howtechnology has evolved.
It has, so it sounds like ifsomeone's just venting or just
joking or, like you said,sharing a meme, that it can
(02:31):
still come back to bite them.
Speaker 2 (02:33):
Definitely.
One example in the article thatI made is an attorney posting
about a very difficult clientthat an attorney had.
And even if you don't namenames, if someone is reading a
post on social media and theycan identify who you're
referring to, you could beviolating that attorney-client
(02:55):
confidentiality.
In this particular case it's,of course, an attorney and the
state bar and certainly theboards.
They don't play around withthis kind of breach and you know
so.
When making these kinds ofposts, you know confidentiality
always needs to be in the backof an attorney's mind.
Speaker 1 (03:14):
Yeah, that makes
sense.
You're saying that you know,even if this person doesn't
personally know that person, ifthey can put two and two
together that this is who you'retalking about.
That that can get you introuble.
And you know, in your articleyou mentioned it wasn't just
lawyers.
You wrote about CPAs, nurses,counselors, really every board
(03:36):
seems to have their own concerns.
Speaker 2 (03:40):
They really do.
You know again, with with theuse of social media.
You know it's.
It's just, you know for certainthat these licensing boards are
going to create laws aroundsocial media and you know
(04:03):
they're recognizing that.
You know is that the TexasBoard of Nursing issued a very
clear position on this, actuallythrough what's called Statement
15.29, about social media andhow that can blur professional
boundaries.
(04:29):
And nurses in particular are ina very unique position of trust,
you know, and that trust can bebroken online without even
realizing it.
For example, nurses who postpatient information.
Of course it's a violation offederal law, even the HIPAA laws
, and even vaguely posting thiskind of patient information and
you know, could get a nurse invery big trouble with the boards
.
Information, and you know,could get a nurse in very big
trouble with the boards Sharingoffensive memes or posting
(04:52):
inappropriate photos on socialmedia.
You know those things couldeasily be flagged by boards.
You know, whether it's theBoard of Nursing, the Texas
Medical Board or really anylicensing agency, it could
easily be flagged and couldsubject a license holder to an
investigative notice.
Speaker 1 (05:07):
Yeah, yeah,
absolutely.
I mean, I I can say I canattest to it.
I've seen, you know, peoplewhom I'm friends with on social
media who are nurses or in alicensed profession.
It seems like they want to showthat they're having fun or how
great their job is, but they'reposting, you know patient
information or you know, closeto posting patient information
(05:31):
in the process of doing that.
So you know something they needto be very careful about.
I want to break down somethingyou said a little bit more.
You mentioned boundaries andthe Board of Nursing.
What does that look like inpractice for nurses?
Speaker 2 (05:50):
Well, in particular
for nurses, according to the
Board of Nursing.
You know professionalboundaries are the limits that
protect the nurse-patientrelationship.
Basically, nurses have, youknow, a lot of power anyway and
patients are in vulnerablepositions and you know when
these nurses they cross thatline, you know involving
(06:11):
emotional, financial, social oreven sexual violations.
You know that could obviouslycross those professional
boundaries.
And the thing about socialmedia is that can sort of blur
those lines because the platformitself makes it easy to get too
personal too quickly.
Nurses are in the job ofpatient care and that's it.
(06:33):
They're not there to be reallyclose friends with their
patients.
They're not there to give theirpatients money, help a patient
out if a patient happens to bestruggling financially.
Nurse to give money to apatient, you can't do that.
(06:53):
You know obviously emotionaland, as I mentioned before,
sexual kind of involvementbetween a patient and a nurse is
is certainly things thatsubject you potentially to a to
a violation.
Notice a letter from the boardof nursing.
So again social media sort ofblurs those lines, but there are
laws in place that that areused to sort of unblur those
lines, if you will then, and andcould open the door to, to, you
(07:18):
know, to investigations.
Speaker 1 (07:20):
Yeah, and you are so
right, it really does.
It blurs those lines and itkind of you know, can I do this?
Can I not do this?
It's good to know that theboard of nursing has really
clear guidelines on that.
You know, from my understandingit sounds like something like
just connecting with a patienton Facebook or responding to
(07:40):
them if they, you know, send youa direct message or somehow
contact you directly.
That that kind of crosses thatline.
Speaker 2 (07:48):
Yeah, that you know,
that's actually could be a
really good example of apotential violation of
professional boundaries andcrossing those professional
boundaries.
The Board of Nursingspecifically warns against using
privacy settings as a shield.
Just because your Facebook pageis a friends only doesn't mean
you're going to be protectedagainst those professional
(08:09):
boundary laws.
It could still be a violationof professional boundaries,
which you know could result in,you know, any type of
disciplinary action, whetherit's a warning to the nurse, or
perhaps maybe suspension of thenurse license and leading all
the way up to revocation of thenursing license.
(08:30):
So you know it's pretty seriousstuff.
I mean, you've got to.
You know, if you're a nurse,you've got to maintain those
professional boundaries.
You're not again.
You're there to provide nursingcare and that's it.
Speaker 1 (08:43):
Yeah, wow, it sounds
like a really, really slippery
slope that we're talking aboutand switching gears a bit.
You also mentioned the TexasState Board of Examiners of
Professional Counselors.
What is their stance on this?
Speaker 2 (08:58):
Well, you know, their
guidance is really focused on
maintaining ethical standards,like you know like most all
licensing agencies.
That's the job.
But the counseling board inparticular.
They're emphasizing and tellingthese counselors first, don't
connect with their clients.
(09:18):
And that's what they're calledby this type of licensing agency
.
They're not called patients,they're actually called clients.
They're telling thesecounselors don't connect with
these clients on a personalsocial media account, Just don't
do it.
Always get informed consentbefore using social media in any
client-related way.
Avoid disclosing anyidentifying client information,
(09:41):
even indirectly.
Again, you've got to maintainconfidentiality.
Another thing that they'retelling counselors is use secure
platforms if you're providingservices online.
Secure platforms If you'reproviding services online, you
know you've got to make surethat there's no way that you can
get an outsider to go in andbreach the security systems in
these platforms and thereforegain access to confidential
information.
(10:01):
And then of course you know, bea good person, be civil, be
respectful, be aware that whatyou post could reflect
negatively on you, and certainlyreflects on your professional
identity.
Speaker 1 (10:18):
Yeah, what happens if
someone violates those rules?
Speaker 2 (10:24):
Well, you know that's
when you may be subjected to,
you know, discipl online, sexualmisconduct or unprofessional
behavior, even making racist ordiscriminatory comments, and
(10:49):
even things like misrepresentingcredentials or making
inappropriate remarks aboutclients or patients.
Again, what we're talking aboutis not necessarily, you know,
one-on-one misbehavior but,behavior done on the internet,
done on these social mediaplatforms, and these licensing
agencies are not going totolerate it.
From their perspective,misbehavior is misbehavior, and
(11:13):
if it's in violation of aparticular rule or law and
you're unprofessional in yourconduct, it's going to open you
to to being investigated.
And so you've got to be, yougot to be mindful.
Speaker 1 (11:28):
So how does the board
, how do they find out about
these posts?
Are these you know?
Is someone taking a screenshotand sending them in, or do you
know how that happens?
How do they see these posts?
Speaker 2 (11:46):
You know, first of
all the posts are made public,
of course, and you know anybodycan report a post that they see
that they had.
You know that suggests in theirminds that there could be
unprofessional conduct throughthese posts and they can, you
know, easily notify the boardand let them know.
And that's where it gets a lotof license holders in trouble.
(12:08):
You know, we tend to vent ourfrustrations on social media
just generally, as people right.
And you know, but when you're alicensed professional, you're
held to that higher standard.
You know you're, you're granteda license and you're given, you
know certain, certainresponsibilities that that are
(12:29):
that are not typically given toa normal person who's not
licensed and posts whatever theywant.
And the board really, at anytime can go into your social
media postings If they'renotified about a postings by you
know anybody.
You know someone can complainabout you about a particular
posting, or you happen to beunder investigation currently
(12:50):
and the board is very interestedin seeing what social media
postings that you've recentlyposted.
You know it can really add tothe allegations that have
already been made against you.
For example, if you're accusedof drunk driving or drunkenness
at work and you're a licenseholder and you're impaired at
(13:14):
work and you have a ton of postsof you chugging beer or you're
at a late night after hoursparty, you're really misbehaving
and showing party.
You know you're, you're, you're, you're really misbehaving and
showing misbehavior in youronline posts Well, that's
evidence that can be usedagainst you.
You know, you know the bottomline is is.
You know misbehavior ismisbehavior, and and and if
(13:37):
you've got you know sort of atimeline or a history of drunk
or a history of drunkenness andyou're being accused of a DWI by
a board, well, you know it justmakes sense that they're going
to perhaps use that evidenceagainst you and show that you've
got a history of this and youknow it's not just a one time
thing and that you've been doingit.
(13:58):
You know.
You know for many months orperhaps years, you know,
depending on how far your postsgo and how long ago you know
they were able to obtain these,these evidentiary posts, if you
will.
So you know it certainly bedamaging to your case again,
whether you're beinginvestigated or if you're
involved in an actual hearing.
So you've got to be you knowyou've got again you got to be
(14:20):
very mindful.
Speaker 1 (14:21):
Yeah, absolutely.
It's a great point to make.
So what would be your advicefor license holders who are
active on social media?
Speaker 2 (14:32):
You know.
I would suggest that you knowbefore you post, pause for a
minute.
You have to understand thatyour license is part of your
livelihood.
You rely on your license tofeed your families and your
children and to live and payyour mortgage.
It allows you to practice inthe area that you work so hard
(14:56):
to obtain to go to school and toobtain a license in.
To go to school and to obtain alicense in.
You know you're in positions oftrust.
You know you're not justearning a living from what
you're doing, but you're alsousing your license to serve
others.
You know.
I suggest and advise that youjust don't let careless tweets
(15:19):
or heated Facebook postsjeopardize that what you've done
so hard to achieve in your life.
You know again, be mindful,stay professional and, more
importantly, know the boundariesthat your board expects you to
uphold.
Speaker 1 (15:33):
The big one,
absolutely.
Well, Tony, thank you so muchfor joining us this afternoon
and shedding light on thisreally really important topic.
Speaker 2 (15:42):
Absolutely, Thanks
for having me, Simone.
Speaker 1 (15:46):
It's always a
pleasure to be on To our viewers
.
Please remember, what you postonline isn't just personal, it's
professional.
If you hold a license, it isyour responsibility to stay
informed and stay in compliance.
You can find Tony's fullarticle in our latest newsletter
and check out Know yourRegulator for more resources on
(16:07):
staying compliant in yourprofession.
Until next time, stay inspiredand continue engaging with your
regulatory agency.
Speaker 2 (16:14):
Know your.
Speaker 1 (16:15):
Regulator the podcast
that inspires you to engage.