January 28, 2025 • 32 mins
Unlock the secrets of navigating the high-stakes world of professional license suspensions with the guidance of seasoned experts, Tony Bertolino and Troy Beaulieu from Bertolino Law Firm. (https://www.belolaw.com/) Discover how temporary suspensions, often triggered by allegations like crimes or drug use, can drastically impact a professional's career and why it's crucial to have experienced legal counsel by your side. In this episode of Know Your Regulator, we promise to equip you with a comprehensive understanding of the urgent nature of these legal proceedings and the essential steps to take when facing such challenges.
Join host Cimone Murphree as we provide a roadmap through the complex terrain of regulatory processes, from recognizing the "oh my gosh factor" to maintaining ethical standards amid scrutiny. Tony shares riveting cases, including one involving opioid misuse, while Troy recounts defending against overreaching agency actions. Together, they emphasize the importance of preparedness, transparency, and effective communication, offering listeners practical advice to safeguard their professional licenses and livelihoods. Whether you're in healthcare, real estate, or any regulated field, this episode promises invaluable insights into defending your career against temporary suspensions.
Get more information, details and resources on Know Your Regulator - https://www.belolaw.com/know-your-regulator
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
This podcast is for educational purposes only, does
not constitute legal advice anddoes not create an
attorney-client relationship.
If you need legal assistanceabout a legal problem, contact
an attorney.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
Welcome back to Know your Regulator.
I'm Simone Murphree, your host,and today we're diving into a
topic that is so important forlicense holders to understand
temporary suspensions, or oftenreferred to as emergency
suspensions.
These are critical processesthat can affect your license and
livelihood.
(00:34):
Joining me today are twoexperts who bring unique
perspectives to this discussion.
First we have Tony Bertolino,the managing partner of the
Bertolino Law Firm and aseasoned defense attorney who
has guided countless clientsthrough these situations.
Welcome, tony, thank you,Simone.
Speaker 3 (00:52):
I'm glad to be here.
Speaker 2 (00:53):
We're also joined by Troy Bollier, Bertolino Law
Firm's Director of LegalServices, who's here to share
insights from the regulatoryside.
Thanks for being here, Troy.
Speaker 1 (01:03):
Thanks, simone, really excited about talking
about this topic today.
Speaker 2 (01:07):
Absolutely Well, let's get started with the
basics.
Troy, can you explain what atemporary suspension is and why
regulatory agencies issue them?
Speaker 1 (01:18):
Sure.
Well, I think the importantthing for people to remember is
that state regulatory agenciesare there to do a job and that
job is to protect the public.
It's a common misconception thatpeople have that they're there
to help license holders or fillsome kind of professional role,
(01:39):
but their primary job is toprotect the public.
Job is to protect the public Ina temporary suspension situation
and every agency is a littlebit different, but the basics
are that in a temporarysuspension the agency is
claiming that there is someimminent danger to the public
health, safety or welfare.
You know, the classic examplewould be say, if there was a
(02:00):
doctor who was practicing whileusing drugs and they were high
and they were maybe doingmedical procedures or surgery,
that exposes the public to someimminent danger or some risk
their health, their safety, ifdoctors are seeing patients and
they're under the influence ofdrugs.
So if the agency believesthere's adequate evidence to
(02:22):
show imminent danger to thepublic, health, safety or
welfare, that's the typicalstandard that they'll use to go
into some type of courtroomsetting and say we need to
temporarily, on an emergencybasis, suspend this person's
license because there's thisrisk that tomorrow somebody in
(02:42):
the consuming public could beharmed.
They could be injured by amedical practitioner.
They could be injured by alawyer who's not looking out for
their interest in doingsomething dangerous, whatever
that profession may be.
They need to immediately put apause on the person's ability to
practice.
Speaker 2 (03:02):
Sounds really intense .
Tony, from your perspective ofa defense attorney, what kinds
of scenarios will lead totemporary suspensions?
Speaker 3 (03:15):
Well, as you can imagine, a lot of these cases.
We analyze them on acase-by-case basis but typically
, to echo a little bit of whatTroy mentioned regarding the
imminent danger standard that'sused in determining whether or
not these are granted by theadministrative law judges we
(03:35):
typically see in our firm casesthat rise to the level of
imminent harm or potential harm,and defending clients who are
accused of crimes, accused ofusing illicit drugs on the job.
You know situations like thatand obviously those are
(03:58):
situations that couldpotentially pose an imminent
danger to patients or the public.
It's one of those situationswhere you know the impact that
it could potentially have on alicense holder is very, very
significant and it's, you know,with temporary suspensions.
You know you really need to.
(04:18):
You know when looking atdifferent scenarios we tend to
look at and urging our clientsto address them quickly.
You really don't want to bebehind the eight ball and start
your case off on the wrong foot.
When you know having atemporary suspension granted,
you know, by an administrativelaw judge, you can imagine it
has a could have a lastingimpact on your livelihood.
(04:40):
You start your case off on thewrong foot and eventually you
can be in a position to whereyou face revocation altogether
and lose your license altogether.
Speaker 2 (04:48):
Yeah, absolutely.
What should a license holder doif they find themselves facing
a temporary suspension?
Speaker 3 (04:55):
Well, you know in previous podcasts that I've done
.
I've mentioned it before and Ithink that I need to even
overemphasize it, now more thanever the importance of hiring a
legal counsel, someone who'sexperienced in these kinds of
matters.
All too often we have clientsthat have come in and they've
(05:16):
experienced a suspension oftheir license because they
represented themselves and theywere under the impression that,
hey, I can handle it on my own.
I know that.
You know I can learn theprocedure, I can Google it, I
can get on chat, gpt, I can doall these things and become a
lawyer overnight and handle thison my own.
And that's not the case,particularly, you know, with
(05:38):
emergency suspensions whetheryou're dealing with an emergency
suspension where you're able toparticipate in the hearing,
you're dealing with an emergencysuspension where you're able to
participate in the hearing, ordealing with an emergency
suspension that was grantedwithout your participation.
At the end of the day, you knowyou trying to handle it on your
own is a huge, huge mistake.
I mean, you got to imagine orunderstand that.
(05:58):
You know you're dealing withstaff attorneys who are well
experienced in this area.
They have a solid understandingof not just the law but the
procedures and they're.
You know, they'll, without adoubt.
You know, you know, but what isit?
Hand your head over to you, youknow, in these hearings, and
(06:21):
you don't want to be in aposition like that, I mean.
So it's so critical that youhire legal counsel for something
like this.
Speaker 2 (06:29):
Yeah, it sounds like it.
I mean, it sounds like there'sa lot on the line and things
happen really quickly.
Let's talk about emergencyhearings.
Troy, can you explain whatthese are and how they differ
from regular disciplinaryhearings?
Speaker 1 (06:45):
Right.
So the key thing, like wetalked about a moment ago, is
the nature of the hearing.
What's the focus?
The focus on these is theagency is alleging there's an
imminent danger to the public.
That requires putting a pauseon somebody's ability to
practice until the regularcomplaint process can play out,
(07:07):
and so what that means is thatit's going to be a fast-paced
situation.
The process varies somewhatfrom agency to agency, but
there's a lot of commonalitiesand similarities in process.
The main thing is that mostagencies typically have a
process where they start withhaving a hearing within the
(07:30):
agency, typically a panel ofboard or commission members.
Whoever makes up the regulatorybody for your agency will have
an emergency meeting.
That's usually ex parte,meaning both sides are not there
and both sides don't get topresent their side of the story.
So the first that a licenseholder may be hearing about this
(07:54):
is after a hearing has beenheld and a decision has been
made to temporarily suspendtheir license.
So it's important to realizethat you may not get advance
notice.
The first time you're hearingabout this is when this written
order from the agency saysyou're a danger.
You can't practice untilfurther notice.
(08:14):
Now there are some options,which again gets back to Tony's
point.
You need a lawyer to digest,understand that written order,
what you can and can't do, howthat impacts your business, your
professional license, thepatients you're currently seeing
that may have matters or issues, or healthcare matters that
(08:34):
need immediate attention.
What do you need to do?
There are options to fight itas well.
It's not that you're just goingto stand still and necessarily
just take that suspension.
Each agency is different.
Some of them most of themtypically give you an expedited
right to go in front of aneutral administrative law judge
(08:55):
and make your case and thatjudge will reconsider what the
board, commission, agency panelhas already temporarily ruled on
.
But that can be some amount oftime Sometimes it can even be
months and months until you'rein front of that judge and that
whole time you are suspended,and so it has a huge impact
(09:16):
again on your clients, yourbusiness, your ability to
generate revenue and rememberthis is at a time when you're
fighting for your livelihood, soof all the times to need cash
and revenue to be able to paylegal expenses.
Now is the point where theagency has said, no, you can't
practice, so you can't generaterevenue.
So it's definitely a veryexpedited, very complicated and
(09:42):
intensive process and there maybe even options that a good
lawyer should be consideringthat are outside of the
temporary suspension process.
For example, if the agency hasdone something improper or
exceeded their authority, youmight have a basis to sue them
in state district court and getan injunction and get your
license reinstated.
(10:03):
So that's something again whyyou need a lawyer to help you
through this very convoluted,complicated process.
Speaker 2 (10:12):
Yeah, no, it sounds like that is very crucial, Tony.
What does this acceleratedtimeline mean for the license
holder and their defense?
Does this accelerated timeline?
Speaker 3 (10:22):
mean for the license holder and their defense.
It generally means you have tobe ready to act quickly and
prepare as quick as you can.
These hearings are sometimesscheduled within days at times.
So it's important that youfollow this accelerated timeline
(10:42):
and do what you can to preparethe necessary defenses.
I mean these are essentiallygoing to be mini bench trials,
very quick hearings.
You know where you're going tobe putting on evidence you're
going to.
You're going to have witnessestestify.
You're going to have, you knowvery, you know limited because
of you know there's not going tobe a whole lot of discovery
(11:02):
that you're going to be able todo.
You know it's not going to be adrawn out kind of
pre-litigation or pre-trial kindof kind of kind of procedure
that you're going to have accessto.
I mean these are going to bevery quick on your feet kind of
hearings and it's going to.
You know at times, you knowyou're going to you're not only
going to be putting on witnessesthat you've had limited
(11:26):
opportunities to, to tointerview in preparation for the
hearing, but you're going tohave a limited time to even
submit written documents andevidence to to the judge.
So, with all that being saidand having an accelerated
timeline like this.
You know you know we keepemphasizing it the importance of
the legal representation.
(11:46):
You know the you know thestakes are very high when, when
you're facing these kinds ofquick evidentiary hearings that
you've got, you know, little orno preparation time and, and you
know, with all that being said,the process can be overwhelming
for someone who tries to dothis on their own.
So it's going to be criticalagain to hire experienced
(12:08):
counsel.
Speaker 2 (12:09):
Yeah, absolutely.
What kind of evidence orarguments are most effective in
these hearings?
Speaker 3 (12:18):
You know it really comes down to understanding the
burden, the standard, the burden.
You know the state has theburden to show that imminent
harm to the public, and you knowso obviously there's going to
be a need to present theevidence or the arguments to
counter and challenge thatburden and to show that there is
, you know, no immediate orimminent risk of harm to the
(12:42):
public.
Speaker 1 (12:42):
So at the end of, the day.
Speaker 3 (12:43):
You know these agencies, they have that burden
of proof and they're going tohave to show that there is a
risk of harm that's imminent.
And you know the kind ofevidence and arguments can
really depend on the strength ofthe witnesses that are going to
be testifying.
And, as I mentioned before,it's a very limited kind of
discovery that's permitted, ifany at all.
(13:04):
And so you know you're going tobe limited in, you know the
documentation that you're ableto obtain as part of your
arguments and as part of yourdefense.
So you know it's important thatyou work very closely with your
attorney in gathering all thatnecessary evidence.
Speaker 2 (13:20):
Really important, very important to know, troy,
what have you seen on theregulatory side?
Speaker 1 (13:28):
Tony is exactly right .
The state has the burden.
Right, they're the ones goinginto court, into some type of
legal setting, and saying, hey,this person is so dangerous that
there is imminent threat to thepublic health, safety or
welfare.
So it's what lawyers will referto as an extraordinary remedy.
(13:50):
Right, it's an unusual request.
It's not lightly granted byjudges, so the state really has
to bring their A game.
They need to bring the evidence, the goods, to show clearly
that this person is a danger tothe public.
Just saying, hey, this personmay have violated the standard
of care or they may haveviolated some of the technical
(14:12):
rules and requirements, that'snot going to be enough.
Plain old complaint.
We go through the normalextended process.
If you want to show that youneed this license holder
temporarily suspended, you needto show there is something
imminent.
It's going to happen tomorrowand it's going to expose the
public, somebody who's usingthis person's services to
(14:36):
immediate danger.
And so what I'm looking for, asa former regulator, is I'm
looking for recent instances.
I don't want this to besomething that happened six
months ago.
I want it to have happenedyesterday or last week, and I
also want to show, if I can,that it's happened more than
once.
Right, this is just not onefluke, one off time, this is a
(14:59):
pattern.
This is repeated and it's goingto continue to repeat.
And then I want to show thatthis is some really bad stuff
that imminently exposes thepublic to harm.
I like to call it the oh mygosh factor.
You know, it's almost like whenyou describe what happened, you
know the judge in their head'sgoing, oh my gosh.
So if you've got those threethings recency, the oh my gosh
(15:22):
factor and multiple instancesthen I think the state's in a
good position to say judge, look, if you don't temporarily
suspend this person tomorrow,he's going to do this again and
again, and again and it's goingto, you know, expose the public
to some really dangerous stuff.
Speaker 2 (15:39):
Yeah, and that is, I think, so important for our
listeners to hear and haveexplained.
I may be thinking that somelisteners are going to go
through this and kind of wonderoh no, you know, is my license
at risk Because this process isso fast and so swift?
I think that explanation of youknow what exactly can can land
(16:02):
you at in a temporary suspensionor with a temporary suspension,
or can land you in thatcourtroom is so good for our
listeners to know.
In looking at giving ourlisteners some practical advice,
tony, what are your toprecommendations for license
holders in these situations?
Speaker 3 (16:22):
Well, I've mentioned before, of course, the
importance of contacting anexperienced attorney immediately
, but more important than that,hiring that experienced attorney
and when speaking with thatattorney, in preparation for
these kinds of hearings, it's socritical that you're
transparent with your lawyer andreally explaining the full
(16:45):
story of what happened, as yourattorney is going to be going
into these hearings Again.
They're very fast paced at timesand nothing angers attorney
more than anything than to gointo a court and being
sandbagged and not having thefull story and suddenly this
disparaging kind of evidencecomes out for the very first
(17:07):
time in the middle of anevidentiary hearing.
Talk about an oh my gosh moment.
I mean nothing's worse thanthat jaw-dropping experience
from your own lawyer when youknow you weren't really told the
full story.
So that's so critical is, youknow, be very transparent when
talking with your lawyer afterhiring him or her.
(17:29):
The next thing, of course, isdocumentation and with
documentation I actually advisea lot of my clients you know,
turn your social media off.
You know there's always thatchance that staff attorney could
be snooping around social mediaand find you on Facebook and,
(17:49):
you know, discover that you'reat a party and you're drinking
excessively and you know, oryou're doing drugs God forbid
it's caught on some type ofvideo, you know I mean you're
doing whatever you can tomitigate the circumstances and
that includes, you know,limiting any kind of evidence
that may be out there that couldbe used against you.
Speaker 1 (18:08):
And then, of course, staying, you know.
Speaker 3 (18:11):
You know very composed and professional
throughout the entire process,working closely with your lawyer
.
You know being responsive toyour lawyer.
You know, when the lawyer givesyou know suggestions and
requests, honor thosesuggestions and requests, do
what you can to be part of theteam and cooperate fully in your
own representation.
(18:31):
I mean, when you're facingthese kinds of matters you
really can't put all of yourfaith in your own lawyer.
You've got to be a team memberas well and work very closely
with your lawyer as a teammember.
You've got to be a team memberas well and work very closely
with your lawyer as a teammember.
So yeah, and you know, reallydo what you can to.
You know, put on the very bestdefense that you possibly can.
Speaker 2 (18:50):
Yeah, absolutely Really important points there.
Tony and Troy, what would youadd?
Speaker 1 (18:57):
from the regulatory side side.
Yeah, I think it's reallyimportant as best you can to
know that agency and to knowwhat your rights are, to know
how their process works.
Again, every agency is a littlebit different.
This is a generic overview andgenerally this is how it works
for most agencies.
But every agency has their ownlittle quirks and tweaks about
(19:19):
how they handle the process.
And that's why, to Tony's firstpoint, it's just so important
to get legal counsel who doesthese kinds of things every day,
because you just have zeromargin for error.
There's very short amount oftime and, quite honestly, the
lawyer that you have and howwell they handle themselves in
(19:43):
front of that panel or judge andhave an impact on the
credibility and how the judge orthe panel that's deciding the
suspension is going to perceiveabout your case.
And so you know, gettingsomebody who knows that
background, knows what theprocess is, can advise you about
your rights and then, like Tonywas saying, you've got to
(20:04):
partner with that lawyer for avery intensive preparation, pull
together what you can in thatshort amount of time.
Again, the goal is to show thatthe agency doesn't have a case
that there's this imminentdanger to the public.
So, whatever you can do topresent and say, hey look, there
(20:25):
may have been a mistake, but itwas a genuine one-off mistake
and it doesn't continue toexpose the public to danger.
So you really kind of want tojust be aware of that process
and how to go through it and,again, having a lawyer at your
side who knows and has done thisis really the key to making
that happen.
Speaker 2 (20:46):
Yeah, absolutely, it sounds like it.
Can you both share examples ofcases that you've worked on
where temporary suspensions wereissued?
Tony, we'll start with you.
Speaker 3 (20:57):
Yeah, I had a client must have been close to 10 years
ago and she was in surgery andshe was.
There was allegations ofimminent harm to the patient due
(21:18):
to her usage of opioids whileshe was in the emergency room
working and she at the time weargued that you know she had her
eyes closed and you know therewas argument made by the staff
attorney that she passed outfrom the opioids.
But you know it was found thatshe indeed, you know, was not
(21:43):
just high on opioids at the timebut actually misappropriated
some of the drugs from her ownpatients to obtain the opioids.
And of course, in thatsituation the court found an
imminent harm to the public,particularly to the patients
that she handled, and granted anorder suspending her license.
Speaker 2 (22:09):
Yeah, talk about an oh my gosh moment, right?
Speaker 3 (22:13):
Oh yeah, for sure, that was a tough one.
I mean, you can't win them all.
You get cases you get what youget.
When you've got cases whereyou've got bad facts, you just
do what you can to defend andrepresent your client the best
you can under the circumstances.
You know, so you're you'regoing to get situations where
(22:34):
you know, from my perspective,even though we were representing
her, looking back on it, youknow it probably was a situation
that that justified suspendingher license.
I mean, without a doubt lookingback on it.
Speaker 2 (22:47):
Yeah, and I mean that's a great example of how
you know this, all of this kindof happens and why having an
attorney is so important.
I mean, if she had gone intothat with no legal
representation at all, I mean Ican imagine things would have
been, you know, a lot worse.
Speaker 3 (23:06):
Right, absolutely.
She had her day in court.
I mean, that was the importantthing, exactly yeah.
A capable defense.
Speaker 2 (23:12):
Absolutely Troy.
What about you?
What are your insights from theregulatory side?
Speaker 1 (23:33):
suspensions that typically surrounded instances
where there was accusations offraud working in the real estate
appraisal regulatory sphere.
It was not all that uncommon,especially during the years
surrounding the mortgage crisis.
Back about 15 years ago, wewould get complaints that seemed
to show that people were goingaround and fraudulently
(23:53):
representing they had gone outand done the property inspection
associated with the appraisal,for example, when they really
hadn't gone, or they had sentsomeone who was unqualified, or
that they were otherwiseengaging in fraud, and that was
continuing to happen.
And we would have, you know,instances where we could get
(24:14):
homeowners or we could getrecorded you know doorbell
camera footage to show hey look,the person that supposedly came
out here was not you.
You were the one authorized andhad the license.
Instead, oh, look, like Tonywas saying here's Facebook
(24:36):
footage showing that you'reskiing in you know British
Columbia, or that you're infront of the Washington Monument
or something, at a time when,according to your records, you
did 10 um, you know appraisals.
You know in in Texas and so itlooks, you know, obviously
really bad.
It's kind of that oh my goshmoment.
(24:57):
And you've got some documentsto back it up.
But you've also got thesewitnesses saying, no, this
person never came out.
I've never seen this personbefore, you know, in my life and
so we did a number of those.
Obviously, that were typicallysuccessful, because, you know,
(25:18):
good regulators are going tomake sure they're only going
after those where they reallyhave the goods.
Again, this is a balancing ofinterests, right, the public
needs to be protected fromimminent harm, but you also have
a license holder who has avalid legitimate license, and so
I know, as a former regulator,I took that very seriously and
wanted to make absolutely surethat I could present a solid
(25:40):
case and that I wasn't pushingthe envelope or reaching beyond
what was there.
But more recently, I've doneemergency temporary suspensions
on the defense side and I had arecent experience, in fact
fairly recently.
That was actually a greatsuccess story.
This is an example where anagency goes too far and they
(26:05):
push beyond the boundaries ofthat standard of imminent harm
to the public, health or welfare, and so we were able to get
into court and demonstrate tothe judge very clearly.
Hey, you know there may beproblems there may be, you know
standard of care issues, butthose are appropriate for the
(26:25):
normal complaint process.
You have not shown that thereis imminent danger to the public
that something bad is going tohappen tomorrow.
Like Tony gave that greatexample, it's very common to see
you know drug use in aprofessional setting, especially
in healthcare, to be one ofthose go-to things where it's
like, okay, we need to go intocourt and stop this person for
(26:48):
practicing because you knowpeople's lives are on the line.
You know they're doing, you knowopen heart surgery and the
person might not be have themental acuity or even you know
the capacity to play their roleand serve as a healthcare
provider.
So in this case, yeah, we wereable to show there's no imminent
harm, this needs to go thenormal process and we got the
(27:12):
judge to say no, suspension isimproper and that needs to be
lifted.
So again, it's really importantto have an attorney that knows
those standards and processesand can advocate very
effectively for you.
The other thing that I wouldsay is, definitely, if you can
sometimes talk to the staff atthe agencies, talk to the
(27:35):
attorney, see what kind ofevidence is there.
See, sometimes they will share.
We would share informaldiscovery with the lawyer
because we were so comfortablethat, hey, we know this is solid
(27:56):
evidence and it was helpful tothe defense lawyer, because then
they can have a very frank andhonest conversation with their
client.
Because, at the end of the day,clients need to be very well
informed about the situation andtheir options so they can make
good decisions that make sensefor them.
Speaker 2 (28:14):
Absolutely Well.
This has been a very insightfuldiscussion.
Before we wrap up, what finaladvice do you have for our
listeners, Tony?
Speaker 3 (28:26):
Well if the listeners are license holders, my biggest
advice is behave yourself.
Well.
If the listeners are licenseholders, my biggest advice is
behave yourself.
Because you know a lot of thesehearings.
You know they come about due tomisbehavior.
You know crimes are committedor you know there's usage of
drugs or usage of alcohol.
(28:47):
You know it really comes tomisbehaving.
And so my you know.
My first piece of advice isbehave yourself, do what you're
supposed to do.
But if you find yourselfmisbehaving and you find
yourself in front of anadministrative law judge or
facing some type of emergencyhearing or a hearing that
(29:12):
encumbers your license on thattemporary basis, don't wait to
seek help.
Do what you can to hire goodlegal counsel.
Do it as quick as you can.
I mean it's important that youinvest your time, energy, money
at the front end when you'refacing these kinds of matters,
because if you wait it's goingto cost you more on the back end
(29:32):
.
So it's critical that you knowif you're going to have a good
chance of salvaging your career,your livelihood, your
reputation at the earlybeginnings of these emergency
suspension hearings.
It's important that you actquickly and from that it starts
with hiring good legal counsel.
Speaker 1 (29:59):
I would say so.
Yeah, absolutely, troy.
Anything that you would like toadd?
Yeah, I would echo what Tonysays.
You know we've been talking alot about imminent harm to the
public.
That's the standard the statehas to prove, and so they need
to show that this conduct isimminent.
But you know the rapid natureof these processes.
It really makes you know theneed for legal representation
(30:23):
imminent as well.
Right, I mean, this is notsomething where, well, we might
have court in six or 12 monthsdown the road.
I mean, things are happeningsuper fast and you will wake up
and find out that you can'tpractice and you can't, you know
, pay your mortgage, you can'tpay your employees, your
business has been ground to astandstill halt, and so it's
(30:45):
really important.
Time is a huge factor in thesecases, and I know a lot of
people want to think well, if Ijust talk to the investigator
and I explain to them, you knowthey misunderstood and that may
be the case you may becompletely right.
Yes, they're misunderstanding.
Yes, the agency is overreaching.
I've seen it happen myself butyou don't want to be doing that.
(31:08):
You want a lawyer to be doingthat, a skilled advocate that's
trained, knowledgeable aboutthis.
Done it before and can come tothe table quite honestly, with
some gravitas.
This is not the first time.
You know that this lawyer hasdealt with this agency on a
temporary suspension matter andthey have a history and they
know oh, so-and-so knows whatthey're doing and is going to
(31:31):
hold us our feet to the fire.
So you want all of that to cometo bear when you're talking to
the agency and trying to getthem maybe to stop and to agree
to lift the suspension and ifnot, then you're ready to move
forward through the hearingprocess.
So I would just stress theimportance of time.
Time is so critical.
You have very little time.
(31:52):
Don't waste that time trying todo it yourself.
You know you wouldn't sitaround trying to give yourself
your own root canal and then youknow, maybe a month later, say,
well, maybe I ought to go seethe dentist.
You know, if you're havingheart palpitations, let me see
if I can just give myself aregimen, a baby aspirin, and I
don't need to go see thecardiologist.
No, go to the cardiologisttoday.
(32:12):
And that's what I would sayabout these situations.
Time is critical.
Immediately contact an attorneyand seek legal counsel.
Speaker 2 (32:22):
Absolutely excellent advice.
Thank you, tony and Troy, forjoining us today, and thank you
to our listeners for tuning in.
For more resources, you canvisit our website, linked in the
description below.
Until next time, subscribe toKnow your Regulator and learn
how you can engage with yourregulatory agency.
Thank you, guys.
Speaker 3 (32:45):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (32:46):
Thank you, simone.
Know your Regulator the podcastthat inspires you to engage.
This podcast is for educational purposes only, does
not constitute legal advice anddoes not create an
attorney-client relationship.
If you need legal assistanceabout a legal problem, contact
an attorney.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
Welcome back to Know your Regulator.
I'm Simone Murphree, your host,and today we're diving into a
topic that is so important forlicense holders to understand
temporary suspensions, or oftenreferred to as emergency
suspensions.
These are critical processesthat can affect your license and
livelihood.
(00:34):
Joining me today are twoexperts who bring unique
perspectives to this discussion.
First we have Tony Bertolino,the managing partner of the
Bertolino Law Firm and aseasoned defense attorney who
has guided countless clientsthrough these situations.
Welcome, tony, thank you,Simone.
Speaker 3 (00:52):
I'm glad to be here.
Speaker 2 (00:53):
We're also joined by Troy Bollier, Bertolino Law
Firm's Director of LegalServices, who's here to share
insights from the regulatoryside.
Thanks for being here, Troy.
Speaker 1 (01:03):
Thanks, simone, really excited about talking
about this topic today.
Speaker 2 (01:07):
Absolutely Well, let's get started with the
basics.
Troy, can you explain what atemporary suspension is and why
regulatory agencies issue them?
Speaker 1 (01:18):
Sure.
Well, I think the importantthing for people to remember is
that state regulatory agenciesare there to do a job and that
job is to protect the public.
It's a common misconception thatpeople have that they're there
to help license holders or fillsome kind of professional role,
(01:39):
but their primary job is toprotect the public.
Job is to protect the public Ina temporary suspension situation
and every agency is a littlebit different, but the basics
are that in a temporarysuspension the agency is
claiming that there is someimminent danger to the public
health, safety or welfare.
You know, the classic examplewould be say, if there was a
(02:00):
doctor who was practicing whileusing drugs and they were high
and they were maybe doingmedical procedures or surgery,
that exposes the public to someimminent danger or some risk
their health, their safety, ifdoctors are seeing patients and
they're under the influence ofdrugs.
So if the agency believesthere's adequate evidence to
(02:22):
show imminent danger to thepublic, health, safety or
welfare, that's the typicalstandard that they'll use to go
into some type of courtroomsetting and say we need to
temporarily, on an emergencybasis, suspend this person's
license because there's thisrisk that tomorrow somebody in
(02:42):
the consuming public could beharmed.
They could be injured by amedical practitioner.
They could be injured by alawyer who's not looking out for
their interest in doingsomething dangerous, whatever
that profession may be.
They need to immediately put apause on the person's ability to
practice.
Speaker 2 (03:02):
Sounds really intense .
Tony, from your perspective ofa defense attorney, what kinds
of scenarios will lead totemporary suspensions?
Speaker 3 (03:15):
Well, as you can imagine, a lot of these cases.
We analyze them on acase-by-case basis but typically
, to echo a little bit of whatTroy mentioned regarding the
imminent danger standard that'sused in determining whether or
not these are granted by theadministrative law judges we
(03:35):
typically see in our firm casesthat rise to the level of
imminent harm or potential harm,and defending clients who are
accused of crimes, accused ofusing illicit drugs on the job.
You know situations like thatand obviously those are
(03:58):
situations that couldpotentially pose an imminent
danger to patients or the public.
It's one of those situationswhere you know the impact that
it could potentially have on alicense holder is very, very
significant and it's, you know,with temporary suspensions.
You know you really need to.
(04:18):
You know when looking atdifferent scenarios we tend to
look at and urging our clientsto address them quickly.
You really don't want to bebehind the eight ball and start
your case off on the wrong foot.
When you know having atemporary suspension granted,
you know, by an administrativelaw judge, you can imagine it
has a could have a lastingimpact on your livelihood.
(04:40):
You start your case off on thewrong foot and eventually you
can be in a position to whereyou face revocation altogether
and lose your license altogether.
Speaker 2 (04:48):
Yeah, absolutely.
What should a license holder doif they find themselves facing
a temporary suspension?
Speaker 3 (04:55):
Well, you know in previous podcasts that I've done
.
I've mentioned it before and Ithink that I need to even
overemphasize it, now more thanever the importance of hiring a
legal counsel, someone who'sexperienced in these kinds of
matters.
All too often we have clientsthat have come in and they've
(05:16):
experienced a suspension oftheir license because they
represented themselves and theywere under the impression that,
hey, I can handle it on my own.
I know that.
You know I can learn theprocedure, I can Google it, I
can get on chat, gpt, I can doall these things and become a
lawyer overnight and handle thison my own.
And that's not the case,particularly, you know, with
(05:38):
emergency suspensions whetheryou're dealing with an emergency
suspension where you're able toparticipate in the hearing,
you're dealing with an emergencysuspension where you're able to
participate in the hearing, ordealing with an emergency
suspension that was grantedwithout your participation.
At the end of the day, you knowyou trying to handle it on your
own is a huge, huge mistake.
I mean, you got to imagine orunderstand that.
(05:58):
You know you're dealing withstaff attorneys who are well
experienced in this area.
They have a solid understandingof not just the law but the
procedures and they're.
You know, they'll, without adoubt.
You know, you know, but what isit?
Hand your head over to you, youknow, in these hearings, and
(06:21):
you don't want to be in aposition like that, I mean.
So it's so critical that youhire legal counsel for something
like this.
Speaker 2 (06:29):
Yeah, it sounds like it.
I mean, it sounds like there'sa lot on the line and things
happen really quickly.
Let's talk about emergencyhearings.
Troy, can you explain whatthese are and how they differ
from regular disciplinaryhearings?
Speaker 1 (06:45):
Right.
So the key thing, like wetalked about a moment ago, is
the nature of the hearing.
What's the focus?
The focus on these is theagency is alleging there's an
imminent danger to the public.
That requires putting a pauseon somebody's ability to
practice until the regularcomplaint process can play out,
(07:07):
and so what that means is thatit's going to be a fast-paced
situation.
The process varies somewhatfrom agency to agency, but
there's a lot of commonalitiesand similarities in process.
The main thing is that mostagencies typically have a
process where they start withhaving a hearing within the
(07:30):
agency, typically a panel ofboard or commission members.
Whoever makes up the regulatorybody for your agency will have
an emergency meeting.
That's usually ex parte,meaning both sides are not there
and both sides don't get topresent their side of the story.
So the first that a licenseholder may be hearing about this
(07:54):
is after a hearing has beenheld and a decision has been
made to temporarily suspendtheir license.
So it's important to realizethat you may not get advance
notice.
The first time you're hearingabout this is when this written
order from the agency saysyou're a danger.
You can't practice untilfurther notice.
(08:14):
Now there are some options,which again gets back to Tony's
point.
You need a lawyer to digest,understand that written order,
what you can and can't do, howthat impacts your business, your
professional license, thepatients you're currently seeing
that may have matters or issues, or healthcare matters that
(08:34):
need immediate attention.
What do you need to do?
There are options to fight itas well.
It's not that you're just goingto stand still and necessarily
just take that suspension.
Each agency is different.
Some of them most of themtypically give you an expedited
right to go in front of aneutral administrative law judge
(08:55):
and make your case and thatjudge will reconsider what the
board, commission, agency panelhas already temporarily ruled on
.
But that can be some amount oftime Sometimes it can even be
months and months until you'rein front of that judge and that
whole time you are suspended,and so it has a huge impact
(09:16):
again on your clients, yourbusiness, your ability to
generate revenue and rememberthis is at a time when you're
fighting for your livelihood, soof all the times to need cash
and revenue to be able to paylegal expenses.
Now is the point where theagency has said, no, you can't
practice, so you can't generaterevenue.
So it's definitely a veryexpedited, very complicated and
(09:42):
intensive process and there maybe even options that a good
lawyer should be consideringthat are outside of the
temporary suspension process.
For example, if the agency hasdone something improper or
exceeded their authority, youmight have a basis to sue them
in state district court and getan injunction and get your
license reinstated.
(10:03):
So that's something again whyyou need a lawyer to help you
through this very convoluted,complicated process.
Speaker 2 (10:12):
Yeah, no, it sounds like that is very crucial, Tony.
What does this acceleratedtimeline mean for the license
holder and their defense?
Does this accelerated timeline?
Speaker 3 (10:22):
mean for the license holder and their defense.
It generally means you have tobe ready to act quickly and
prepare as quick as you can.
These hearings are sometimesscheduled within days at times.
So it's important that youfollow this accelerated timeline
(10:42):
and do what you can to preparethe necessary defenses.
I mean these are essentiallygoing to be mini bench trials,
very quick hearings.
You know where you're going tobe putting on evidence you're
going to.
You're going to have witnessestestify.
You're going to have, you knowvery, you know limited because
of you know there's not going tobe a whole lot of discovery
(11:02):
that you're going to be able todo.
You know it's not going to be adrawn out kind of
pre-litigation or pre-trial kindof kind of kind of procedure
that you're going to have accessto.
I mean these are going to bevery quick on your feet kind of
hearings and it's going to.
You know at times, you knowyou're going to you're not only
going to be putting on witnessesthat you've had limited
(11:26):
opportunities to, to tointerview in preparation for the
hearing, but you're going tohave a limited time to even
submit written documents andevidence to to the judge.
So, with all that being saidand having an accelerated
timeline like this.
You know you know we keepemphasizing it the importance of
the legal representation.
(11:46):
You know the you know thestakes are very high when, when
you're facing these kinds ofquick evidentiary hearings that
you've got, you know, little orno preparation time and, and you
know, with all that being said,the process can be overwhelming
for someone who tries to dothis on their own.
So it's going to be criticalagain to hire experienced
(12:08):
counsel.
Speaker 2 (12:09):
Yeah, absolutely.
What kind of evidence orarguments are most effective in
these hearings?
Speaker 3 (12:18):
You know it really comes down to understanding the
burden, the standard, the burden.
You know the state has theburden to show that imminent
harm to the public, and you knowso obviously there's going to
be a need to present theevidence or the arguments to
counter and challenge thatburden and to show that there is
, you know, no immediate orimminent risk of harm to the
(12:42):
public.
Speaker 1 (12:42):
So at the end of, the day.
Speaker 3 (12:43):
You know these agencies, they have that burden
of proof and they're going tohave to show that there is a
risk of harm that's imminent.
And you know the kind ofevidence and arguments can
really depend on the strength ofthe witnesses that are going to
be testifying.
And, as I mentioned before,it's a very limited kind of
discovery that's permitted, ifany at all.
(13:04):
And so you know you're going tobe limited in, you know the
documentation that you're ableto obtain as part of your
arguments and as part of yourdefense.
So you know it's important thatyou work very closely with your
attorney in gathering all thatnecessary evidence.
Speaker 2 (13:20):
Really important, very important to know, troy,
what have you seen on theregulatory side?
Speaker 1 (13:28):
Tony is exactly right .
The state has the burden.
Right, they're the ones goinginto court, into some type of
legal setting, and saying, hey,this person is so dangerous that
there is imminent threat to thepublic health, safety or
welfare.
So it's what lawyers will referto as an extraordinary remedy.
(13:50):
Right, it's an unusual request.
It's not lightly granted byjudges, so the state really has
to bring their A game.
They need to bring the evidence, the goods, to show clearly
that this person is a danger tothe public.
Just saying, hey, this personmay have violated the standard
of care or they may haveviolated some of the technical
(14:12):
rules and requirements, that'snot going to be enough.
Plain old complaint.
We go through the normalextended process.
If you want to show that youneed this license holder
temporarily suspended, you needto show there is something
imminent.
It's going to happen tomorrowand it's going to expose the
public, somebody who's usingthis person's services to
(14:36):
immediate danger.
And so what I'm looking for, asa former regulator, is I'm
looking for recent instances.
I don't want this to besomething that happened six
months ago.
I want it to have happenedyesterday or last week, and I
also want to show, if I can,that it's happened more than
once.
Right, this is just not onefluke, one off time, this is a
(14:59):
pattern.
This is repeated and it's goingto continue to repeat.
And then I want to show thatthis is some really bad stuff
that imminently exposes thepublic to harm.
I like to call it the oh mygosh factor.
You know, it's almost like whenyou describe what happened, you
know the judge in their head'sgoing, oh my gosh.
So if you've got those threethings recency, the oh my gosh
(15:22):
factor and multiple instancesthen I think the state's in a
good position to say judge, look, if you don't temporarily
suspend this person tomorrow,he's going to do this again and
again, and again and it's goingto, you know, expose the public
to some really dangerous stuff.
Speaker 2 (15:39):
Yeah, and that is, I think, so important for our
listeners to hear and haveexplained.
I may be thinking that somelisteners are going to go
through this and kind of wonderoh no, you know, is my license
at risk Because this process isso fast and so swift?
I think that explanation of youknow what exactly can can land
(16:02):
you at in a temporary suspensionor with a temporary suspension,
or can land you in thatcourtroom is so good for our
listeners to know.
In looking at giving ourlisteners some practical advice,
tony, what are your toprecommendations for license
holders in these situations?
Speaker 3 (16:22):
Well, I've mentioned before, of course, the
importance of contacting anexperienced attorney immediately
, but more important than that,hiring that experienced attorney
and when speaking with thatattorney, in preparation for
these kinds of hearings, it's socritical that you're
transparent with your lawyer andreally explaining the full
(16:45):
story of what happened, as yourattorney is going to be going
into these hearings Again.
They're very fast paced at timesand nothing angers attorney
more than anything than to gointo a court and being
sandbagged and not having thefull story and suddenly this
disparaging kind of evidencecomes out for the very first
(17:07):
time in the middle of anevidentiary hearing.
Talk about an oh my gosh moment.
I mean nothing's worse thanthat jaw-dropping experience
from your own lawyer when youknow you weren't really told the
full story.
So that's so critical is, youknow, be very transparent when
talking with your lawyer afterhiring him or her.
(17:29):
The next thing, of course, isdocumentation and with
documentation I actually advisea lot of my clients you know,
turn your social media off.
You know there's always thatchance that staff attorney could
be snooping around social mediaand find you on Facebook and,
(17:49):
you know, discover that you'reat a party and you're drinking
excessively and you know, oryou're doing drugs God forbid
it's caught on some type ofvideo, you know I mean you're
doing whatever you can tomitigate the circumstances and
that includes, you know,limiting any kind of evidence
that may be out there that couldbe used against you.
Speaker 1 (18:08):
And then, of course, staying, you know.
Speaker 3 (18:11):
You know very composed and professional
throughout the entire process,working closely with your lawyer
.
You know being responsive toyour lawyer.
You know, when the lawyer givesyou know suggestions and
requests, honor thosesuggestions and requests, do
what you can to be part of theteam and cooperate fully in your
own representation.
(18:31):
I mean, when you're facingthese kinds of matters you
really can't put all of yourfaith in your own lawyer.
You've got to be a team memberas well and work very closely
with your lawyer as a teammember.
You've got to be a team memberas well and work very closely
with your lawyer as a teammember.
So yeah, and you know, reallydo what you can to.
You know, put on the very bestdefense that you possibly can.
Speaker 2 (18:50):
Yeah, absolutely Really important points there.
Tony and Troy, what would youadd?
Speaker 1 (18:57):
from the regulatory side side.
Yeah, I think it's reallyimportant as best you can to
know that agency and to knowwhat your rights are, to know
how their process works.
Again, every agency is a littlebit different.
This is a generic overview andgenerally this is how it works
for most agencies.
But every agency has their ownlittle quirks and tweaks about
(19:19):
how they handle the process.
And that's why, to Tony's firstpoint, it's just so important
to get legal counsel who doesthese kinds of things every day,
because you just have zeromargin for error.
There's very short amount oftime and, quite honestly, the
lawyer that you have and howwell they handle themselves in
(19:43):
front of that panel or judge andhave an impact on the
credibility and how the judge orthe panel that's deciding the
suspension is going to perceiveabout your case.
And so you know, gettingsomebody who knows that
background, knows what theprocess is, can advise you about
your rights and then, like Tonywas saying, you've got to
(20:04):
partner with that lawyer for avery intensive preparation, pull
together what you can in thatshort amount of time.
Again, the goal is to show thatthe agency doesn't have a case
that there's this imminentdanger to the public.
So, whatever you can do topresent and say, hey look, there
(20:25):
may have been a mistake, but itwas a genuine one-off mistake
and it doesn't continue toexpose the public to danger.
So you really kind of want tojust be aware of that process
and how to go through it and,again, having a lawyer at your
side who knows and has done thisis really the key to making
that happen.
Speaker 2 (20:46):
Yeah, absolutely, it sounds like it.
Can you both share examples ofcases that you've worked on
where temporary suspensions wereissued?
Tony, we'll start with you.
Speaker 3 (20:57):
Yeah, I had a client must have been close to 10 years
ago and she was in surgery andshe was.
There was allegations ofimminent harm to the patient due
(21:18):
to her usage of opioids whileshe was in the emergency room
working and she at the time weargued that you know she had her
eyes closed and you know therewas argument made by the staff
attorney that she passed outfrom the opioids.
But you know it was found thatshe indeed, you know, was not
(21:43):
just high on opioids at the timebut actually misappropriated
some of the drugs from her ownpatients to obtain the opioids.
And of course, in thatsituation the court found an
imminent harm to the public,particularly to the patients
that she handled, and granted anorder suspending her license.
Speaker 2 (22:09):
Yeah, talk about an oh my gosh moment, right?
Speaker 3 (22:13):
Oh yeah, for sure, that was a tough one.
I mean, you can't win them all.
You get cases you get what youget.
When you've got cases whereyou've got bad facts, you just
do what you can to defend andrepresent your client the best
you can under the circumstances.
You know, so you're you'regoing to get situations where
(22:34):
you know, from my perspective,even though we were representing
her, looking back on it, youknow it probably was a situation
that that justified suspendingher license.
I mean, without a doubt lookingback on it.
Speaker 2 (22:47):
Yeah, and I mean that's a great example of how
you know this, all of this kindof happens and why having an
attorney is so important.
I mean, if she had gone intothat with no legal
representation at all, I mean Ican imagine things would have
been, you know, a lot worse.
Speaker 3 (23:06):
Right, absolutely.
She had her day in court.
I mean, that was the importantthing, exactly yeah.
A capable defense.
Speaker 2 (23:12):
Absolutely Troy.
What about you?
What are your insights from theregulatory side?
Speaker 1 (23:33):
suspensions that typically surrounded instances
where there was accusations offraud working in the real estate
appraisal regulatory sphere.
It was not all that uncommon,especially during the years
surrounding the mortgage crisis.
Back about 15 years ago, wewould get complaints that seemed
to show that people were goingaround and fraudulently
(23:53):
representing they had gone outand done the property inspection
associated with the appraisal,for example, when they really
hadn't gone, or they had sentsomeone who was unqualified, or
that they were otherwiseengaging in fraud, and that was
continuing to happen.
And we would have, you know,instances where we could get
(24:14):
homeowners or we could getrecorded you know doorbell
camera footage to show hey look,the person that supposedly came
out here was not you.
You were the one authorized andhad the license.
Instead, oh, look, like Tonywas saying here's Facebook
(24:36):
footage showing that you'reskiing in you know British
Columbia, or that you're infront of the Washington Monument
or something, at a time when,according to your records, you
did 10 um, you know appraisals.
You know in in Texas and so itlooks, you know, obviously
really bad.
It's kind of that oh my goshmoment.
(24:57):
And you've got some documentsto back it up.
But you've also got thesewitnesses saying, no, this
person never came out.
I've never seen this personbefore, you know, in my life and
so we did a number of those.
Obviously, that were typicallysuccessful, because, you know,
(25:18):
good regulators are going tomake sure they're only going
after those where they reallyhave the goods.
Again, this is a balancing ofinterests, right, the public
needs to be protected fromimminent harm, but you also have
a license holder who has avalid legitimate license, and so
I know, as a former regulator,I took that very seriously and
wanted to make absolutely surethat I could present a solid
(25:40):
case and that I wasn't pushingthe envelope or reaching beyond
what was there.
But more recently, I've doneemergency temporary suspensions
on the defense side and I had arecent experience, in fact
fairly recently.
That was actually a greatsuccess story.
This is an example where anagency goes too far and they
(26:05):
push beyond the boundaries ofthat standard of imminent harm
to the public, health or welfare, and so we were able to get
into court and demonstrate tothe judge very clearly.
Hey, you know there may beproblems there may be, you know
standard of care issues, butthose are appropriate for the
(26:25):
normal complaint process.
You have not shown that thereis imminent danger to the public
that something bad is going tohappen tomorrow.
Like Tony gave that greatexample, it's very common to see
you know drug use in aprofessional setting, especially
in healthcare, to be one ofthose go-to things where it's
like, okay, we need to go intocourt and stop this person for
(26:48):
practicing because you knowpeople's lives are on the line.
You know they're doing, you knowopen heart surgery and the
person might not be have themental acuity or even you know
the capacity to play their roleand serve as a healthcare
provider.
So in this case, yeah, we wereable to show there's no imminent
harm, this needs to go thenormal process and we got the
(27:12):
judge to say no, suspension isimproper and that needs to be
lifted.
So again, it's really importantto have an attorney that knows
those standards and processesand can advocate very
effectively for you.
The other thing that I wouldsay is, definitely, if you can
sometimes talk to the staff atthe agencies, talk to the
(27:35):
attorney, see what kind ofevidence is there.
See, sometimes they will share.
We would share informaldiscovery with the lawyer
because we were so comfortablethat, hey, we know this is solid
(27:56):
evidence and it was helpful tothe defense lawyer, because then
they can have a very frank andhonest conversation with their
client.
Because, at the end of the day,clients need to be very well
informed about the situation andtheir options so they can make
good decisions that make sensefor them.
Speaker 2 (28:14):
Absolutely Well.
This has been a very insightfuldiscussion.
Before we wrap up, what finaladvice do you have for our
listeners, Tony?
Speaker 3 (28:26):
Well if the listeners are license holders, my biggest
advice is behave yourself.
Well.
If the listeners are licenseholders, my biggest advice is
behave yourself.
Because you know a lot of thesehearings.
You know they come about due tomisbehavior.
You know crimes are committedor you know there's usage of
drugs or usage of alcohol.
(28:47):
You know it really comes tomisbehaving.
And so my you know.
My first piece of advice isbehave yourself, do what you're
supposed to do.
But if you find yourselfmisbehaving and you find
yourself in front of anadministrative law judge or
facing some type of emergencyhearing or a hearing that
(29:12):
encumbers your license on thattemporary basis, don't wait to
seek help.
Do what you can to hire goodlegal counsel.
Do it as quick as you can.
I mean it's important that youinvest your time, energy, money
at the front end when you'refacing these kinds of matters,
because if you wait it's goingto cost you more on the back end
(29:32):
.
So it's critical that you knowif you're going to have a good
chance of salvaging your career,your livelihood, your
reputation at the earlybeginnings of these emergency
suspension hearings.
It's important that you actquickly and from that it starts
with hiring good legal counsel.
Speaker 1 (29:59):
I would say so.
Yeah, absolutely, troy.
Anything that you would like toadd?
Yeah, I would echo what Tonysays.
You know we've been talking alot about imminent harm to the
public.
That's the standard the statehas to prove, and so they need
to show that this conduct isimminent.
But you know the rapid natureof these processes.
It really makes you know theneed for legal representation
(30:23):
imminent as well.
Right, I mean, this is notsomething where, well, we might
have court in six or 12 monthsdown the road.
I mean, things are happeningsuper fast and you will wake up
and find out that you can'tpractice and you can't, you know
, pay your mortgage, you can'tpay your employees, your
business has been ground to astandstill halt, and so it's
(30:45):
really important.
Time is a huge factor in thesecases, and I know a lot of
people want to think well, if Ijust talk to the investigator
and I explain to them, you knowthey misunderstood and that may
be the case you may becompletely right.
Yes, they're misunderstanding.
Yes, the agency is overreaching.
I've seen it happen myself butyou don't want to be doing that.
(31:08):
You want a lawyer to be doingthat, a skilled advocate that's
trained, knowledgeable aboutthis.
Done it before and can come tothe table quite honestly, with
some gravitas.
This is not the first time.
You know that this lawyer hasdealt with this agency on a
temporary suspension matter andthey have a history and they
know oh, so-and-so knows whatthey're doing and is going to
(31:31):
hold us our feet to the fire.
So you want all of that to cometo bear when you're talking to
the agency and trying to getthem maybe to stop and to agree
to lift the suspension and ifnot, then you're ready to move
forward through the hearingprocess.
So I would just stress theimportance of time.
Time is so critical.
You have very little time.
(31:52):
Don't waste that time trying todo it yourself.
You know you wouldn't sitaround trying to give yourself
your own root canal and then youknow, maybe a month later, say,
well, maybe I ought to go seethe dentist.
You know, if you're havingheart palpitations, let me see
if I can just give myself aregimen, a baby aspirin, and I
don't need to go see thecardiologist.
No, go to the cardiologisttoday.
(32:12):
And that's what I would sayabout these situations.
Time is critical.
Immediately contact an attorneyand seek legal counsel.
Speaker 2 (32:22):
Absolutely excellent advice.
Thank you, tony and Troy, forjoining us today, and thank you
to our listeners for tuning in.
For more resources, you canvisit our website, linked in the
description below.
Until next time, subscribe toKnow your Regulator and learn
how you can engage with yourregulatory agency.
Thank you, guys.
Speaker 3 (32:45):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (32:46):
Thank you, simone.
Know your Regulator the podcastthat inspires you to engage.
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