May 6, 2025 • 18 mins
Texas has just revolutionized how professional licensing works with Senate Bill 14 – the Texas DOGE Bill. For anyone holding a professional license in the Lone Star State, these changes could fundamentally alter your relationship with regulatory agencies.
At its core, SB 14 creates a new efficiency office within the Governor's administration tasked with identifying and eliminating unnecessary regulations. But the most transformative change lies in how courts will now handle disputes between license holders and their regulators. No longer will judges automatically defer to an agency's interpretation of its own rules – a seismic shift that levels the playing field for professionals challenging regulatory decisions.
Our panel of administrative law experts, attorneys from Bertolino LLP (https://www.belolaw.com/), break down what this means for healthcare providers, financial professionals, educators, and others operating under state licenses. They explore how the elimination of judicial deference creates new opportunities for license holders to challenge unfair regulations, when these changes will take effect, and how they might interact with existing oversight mechanisms like the Sunset Review process. While the bill aims to streamline processes and reduce red tape, our experts note that some regulatory functions may initially slow down as agencies adapt to these substantial changes.
Whether you're currently facing a licensing investigation, planning to apply for a professional license, or simply want to understand how your regulatory landscape is changing, this episode provides essential guidance on navigating the new Texas regulatory environment. The experts leave us with one powerful takeaway – this legislation represents an unprecedented opportunity for license holders to engage with their regulators, shape the rules governing their professions, and potentially reopen doors that were previously closed.
Get more information, details and resources on Know Your Regulator - https://www.belolaw.com/know-your-regulator
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
This podcast is for educational purposes only, does
not constitute legal advice anddoes not create an
attorney-client relationship.
If you need legal assistanceabout a legal problem, contact
an attorney.
Speaker 3 (00:13):
Welcome back to Know your Regulator, the podcast that
inspires you to engage.
I am your host, simone Murphree, and today we're digging into
Senate Bill 14, also known asthe Texas Doge Bill, a newly
signed law that willfundamentally shift how
regulatory agencies in Texasoperate.
If you hold a professionallicense from health care to
(00:33):
trades to financial servicesyou'll want to hear how this law
can affect the rules thatgovern your license, and even
how disputes and enforcementactions are handled in the
future, and how disputes andenforcement actions are handled
in the future.
I'm joined today by attorneysfrom the Bertolino Law Firm, all
experts in administrative lawand professional license defense
.
So we'll get into it.
Let's start at the beginning.
(00:55):
Sb 14, or the Texas Doge Bill,was just signed into law.
Can you walk us through thegoal of this legislation, what
sparked it and what exactly itcreates?
Speaker 4 (01:07):
Sure, I can jump in first.
I think most people areprobably familiar with the
federal version of this.
That's been kind of in the newsin the last few months and so a
lot of states, it seemed, havebeen starting to either create
legislation like this orcommittees like this based on
the federal conduct that wasgoing on.
(01:28):
And so at this point it lookslike you know, this is supposed
to streamline efficiency, kindof like the federal version I
read.
You know Governor Abbott saidit's supposed to check the
growth on the administrativestate, really trying to continue
to like, safeguard and promotethe idea that Texas is this
(01:52):
business forward state.
So I think the main goal, atleast from what we've been
seeing from those that were likeproponents of it and then from
the governor, is that like thisis what's going to protect Texas
businesses and prevent, youknow, this unnecessarily
unneeded regulation surroundingthat.
Speaker 2 (02:14):
It's.
It's certainly got a lot ofconnection to all of the federal
DOJ efforts you see in the news, but it's also a long-standing
political theme.
I mean it's not something newthat state legislators and the
governor's office have onlyrecently started talking about.
I mean you can go back in timeand look at things like the Tea
(02:36):
Party movement.
You can see the governor'soffice created several years ago
a division in their office toaddress regulatory rules.
There's been periodic SunsetCommission reviews of things, so
a lot of these.
This is just maybe the morerecent version of addressing
(02:58):
some of these issues, you know,because it's current in the news
, but it's certainly got ahistory that goes back many,
many years because it's currentin the news, but it's certainly
got a history that goes backmany, many years.
Speaker 3 (03:11):
Yeah, are there any other laws or policies that are
in?
Speaker 2 (03:13):
place that can kind of relate to this bill.
I think one that the viewersmay be familiar with is the
Sunset Review Process.
Remember, this bill is focusedon the governor's office and
it's creating this efficiencyoffice within the governor's
office.
But remember that we've gotthree co-equal branches and the
legislature has a sunsetadvisory commission made up of
(03:37):
legislators and public membersand they review state agencies
every 12 years, including theirrulemaking authority and the
rules that they have in place.
So that's at least one way,from a more legislative centric
perspective, that efficiency islooked at and changes are
proposed.
Speaker 3 (03:59):
Interesting, good to know.
Do you know how those two, howthis Doge bill and Sunset, might
interact with each other in thefuture?
Well, at this point.
Speaker 2 (04:09):
I think they are kind of separate focuses.
The Doge bill is focused moreon what the governor's office
can do.
It has some provisions thattalk about the court's role, but
I think it's kind of housed inthe governor's office, and so I
think that that's very differentfrom the sunset review process,
(04:32):
which is kind of alegislatively oriented process.
But you never know what mayhappen down the road as things
progress.
I think it will be veryinteresting to see how this
public policy pronouncementmanifests itself and as we move
forward.
Speaker 3 (04:49):
Yeah, absolutely Well .
This new office is not justreviewing rules, it's
potentially reshaping how entireagencies function.
What kind of impact might thathave for state agencies that
regulate license holders?
Speaker 1 (05:06):
Of course, I think a reshaping is occurring and a
plethora of things may happen.
And a plethora of things mayhappen, One with the
consolidation of government, andthis is what Texas DOJ will do.
It will essentially shrink thegovernment in the regulatory
landscape.
Therefore, if you have alicense, if you have anything
(05:28):
pending before any of theseboards, it may slow down the
process.
Also, too, we do have the CodeConstruction Act.
If you have any rights that areafforded to you under any
previous rules, and with thechanging of the rules, then that
also may further slow down theprocess, because it has to be
evaluated which rules may applyto a particular process for a
(05:52):
particular license holder.
Speaker 3 (05:54):
So, moving forward to a particular process for a
particular license holder, somoving forward, we will
definitely see a slowdown in theprocess with various boards.
Yeah, interesting, interesting.
And what could this mean for anagency's ability to respond to,
(06:18):
like an emerging situation likethe teacher scandal?
You know, how could that affectTEA's ability to respond to
something like?
Speaker 1 (06:22):
that oh well with those types of issues because
they'll be so high on the list,because the boards are there to
protect the public, I think theywill still have an avenue to do
that.
But when it comes to everydayprocesses for license holders
submitting applications andother types of things that need
(06:43):
to be handled before the board,those processes may definitely
experience a slowdown.
Speaker 3 (06:51):
Gotcha, okay, okay and like things like being
docketed kind of things likethat, like throughout, basically
, anything kind of touching alicense holder you're saying
could be potentially slowed downby this, absolutely Gotcha.
Well, when you guys aredefending licenses, we know that
rules are everything.
So how could SB 14 affect thoselicensees who are currently
(07:15):
under investigation or for thosewho are trying to stay
compliant?
Speaker 2 (07:34):
this is very typical for legislation that if you
already have something that'shappened in the past that's
currently being evaluated, acomplaint, some kind of
disciplinary thing, that's goingto be covered under the old law
, so you're not going to have toworry about you know, you're in
the middle of a complaintinvestigation and suddenly
they're changing the rules onyou.
This is going to apply to rulesthat get proposed and approved
(07:56):
and adopted going forward.
It's kind of lookingprospective and not going to be
applied retroactively, andthat's generally the rule when
legislation gets passed.
Unless there's very specificlanguage, you generally view it
as prospective, moving forward.
Speaker 3 (08:13):
That's good.
That's really good for ourlicense holders to know.
For those who are trying tostay compliant, could we see a
potential gray area where youknow people might be caught
without proper guidance?
Speaker 2 (08:26):
Yeah, Well, I don't think, simone, that's too likely
.
I mean, the gist of this Dogebill is really trying to go
through the regulatory processand find where there's room for
efficiencies, where maybethere's too much red tape or too
(08:47):
many requirements, things thathopefully are not substantive
right Because the legislaturepasses the bills, the actual
laws that substantively addressconsumer protection and license
holder obligations.
What this bill is really focusedon is hey, how do we do that
efficiently If there are thingsthat extra steps that don't need
(09:10):
to be done, if there's red tape, extra steps that don't need to
be done, if there's red tape,extra applications or forms that
have to be filled out?
You know, the goal is to tryand make things more efficient
and there's always room forefficiency and growth.
I mean, with such a largegovernment and so many wide
varieties of processes governingeverything you know pretty much
(09:32):
under the sun, every type ofprofession, occupation or even,
you know, industries, it'sthere's definitely things I
think we're going to find overtime that can be done better,
more efficiently and with lessred tape.
So that's what I think reallythe gist of the, the focus of
the bill, is.
Speaker 3 (09:52):
So we kind of were talking about it a little bit
before this episode.
One of the biggest pieces of SB14 is about the courts no
longer having to defer toagencies' interpretations of
their own rules.
Can one of you break that downfor us?
What does that really mean?
Speaker 5 (10:10):
I'll take that.
Does that really mean I'll takethat?
You know?
I think that this is probablyone of the most significant
changes in the law, and whatthis is called is what's called
judicial deference.
And historically, what Texascourts have done is they've
deferred to the stateoccupational licensing board's
interpretation of the law,rather than decide the meaning
(10:34):
of the laws on their own.
And you know the historical orthe policy reason behind that
was the belief that judgeslacked the knowledge to
interpret these technicallanguage that's in the, in the
statutes and, and that theagencies are better suited to do
that rather than a judge.
Agencies are better suited todo that rather than a judge.
And again, historically, whatit did is it allowed these
(10:57):
government agencies that do theinterpreting it almost always in
a way that favored the agency'sown interests.
So what?
it did is really created asystemic bias that favored the
government going into, you know,a lot of these cases and now,
with this new change in the law,judicial deference is basically
(11:18):
no longer current law.
You know, now the judges can dothe interpretation, and what it
does now is it, you know,explains how this affects the
judicial review.
And what it does is, in manyways, it empowers the licensees
and gives them more power, andthat's, you know, a huge change.
Speaker 3 (11:40):
Yeah, absolutely.
And would you guys say thatthis maybe we will see more
appeals and more challenges incourt, and you know what are
some of the things that licenseholders should look out for with
this big change?
I mean, it absolutely could.
Speaker 5 (11:58):
I mean.
What it does is it creates thenew opportunities for these
license holders to challengethese regulations in court.
Really, it begins to level theplaying field a little bit more.
You know you've already hadthese agencies that have
advantages going into appealslike you know there's a.
You know you've already hadthese agencies that have
advantages going into appeals.
Like you know there's a.
You know the standard of review, for instance.
(12:18):
You know the.
You know the agency's decisions.
In order to overturn them, youoften had to challenge the
standard review of what's calledsubstantial evidence and
whether it was arbitrary,capricious or an abuse of
discretion.
And those are kinds ofadvantages that these agencies
have, particularly on appeal.
So what this has done is, youknow, levels the playing field a
(12:40):
little bit more.
It allows the you know thelicense holders to, you know, to
pursue their cases and havebetter defenses and better
arguments to be made.
Speaker 2 (12:52):
Completely agree with Tony.
I think it does level theplaying field we saw in recent
years at the federal level.
The US Supreme Court hasreversed this same concept in
the federal system and said no,we're not going to defer to an
agency's interpretation of thelaws they're responsible for in
(13:13):
their regulatory sphere.
And so what you saw in Texas formany years was a decision from
the Texas Supreme Court it'scalled Texas Citizens and again
it kind of gave that advantageto state agencies.
And so as long as the stateagency's interpretation was
(13:33):
reasonable and was based, youknow, wasn't contrary to the
plain language, then it wasdifficult for a license holder,
when directly competing with theagency making legal arguments,
to say no, judge, you ought tofollow our interpretation,
because there was a whole seriesof cases, including Texas
citizens, that said no Judge,you need to defer to the state
(13:57):
agency because there's theexperts on this.
So to Tony's point I reallythink it is going to
revolutionize the landscape interms of, hey, we're on a
playing field.
Both the regulated and theregulatory agency can bring
legal arguments to the judge,but at the end of the day
they're on equal footing and thejudge is going to make the
decision.
Speaker 3 (14:18):
Yeah, no, it really sounds like it has the potential
to kind of shake things up.
Well, to wrap up, guys, I'dlove to hear just one piece of
advice from each of you what aresomething that license holders
can do today to prepare forthese changes coming with the
Doge bill?
Speaker 5 (14:37):
I think that it's important that you know, if you
are a license holder and you'relistening or watching this
podcast is that you reallyeducate yourself very well in
this new change.
You know and have a goodunderstanding of what this bill
does and how it couldpotentially impact your, your
livelihood and your career andyour and your work.
(14:58):
And you know and, coupled withthat, I also advise that you
know you, if you are in a placewhere you know a position in
your life where you've receiveda complaint, notice of some sort
and you're facing aninvestigation and that could
ultimately end up in a court,you know make sure that you're
hiring the right lawyer and youknow you're finding attorneys
(15:21):
that have experience in thisarea, that have knowledge in
this new change in the law, aswe mentioned before.
You know this significantchange in judicial deference.
Speaker 2 (15:45):
You know this significant change in judicial
deference.
You know these are importantparts of this law that an
experienced lawyer will be ableto use and, in a word, I would
say it's opportunity.
There's two opportunities herethis bill presents.
One is license holders may havenew or aggressive legal
arguments because they're onequal footing with the agency
when it comes to interpretingthe laws because of this change.
(16:07):
The second is the opportunitythat we preach every day here in
the Know your Regulator podcastis to engage with your
regulator.
This bill basically gives you awhole other avenue to approach
the regulatory world.
Talk to the governor's office,get involved, make suggestions
about how your industry could bemore efficient, more
(16:31):
streamlined.
Maybe you have an idea or asuggestion about something that
needs to change.
This is, in a way, thegovernment, the legislature and
Governor Abbott saying hey, wewant to hear from you, and so I
would say opportunity.
Those are the two bigopportunities to take away from
this bill, I agree.
Speaker 1 (16:49):
I agree with Troy.
This is a huge opportunity toget involved with your
government and be the face ofyour industry and really effect
change when these rules arebeing made and legislation is
being passed.
Speaker 4 (17:04):
So definitely use it as an opportunity to get
involved yeah, I would echo whateverybody says and I would say
to like listeners out there, ifthey, um, you know, maybe had
applied for a license in thepast or there were certain
issues that come up, you knowhad come up or certain legal um
problems, like troy said, thismight be your opportunity to try
(17:26):
again, you know.
So, if you, you know, had issuesbefore now, like we've said,
this might actually benefit thepeople as opposed to the
agencies, and so it's.
It is important to kind of stayabreast of what's going on and
what this you know, doge isdoing.
And then if you think that you,you know, would like to, you
know, try again in a differentfield, or try, you know, to
(17:49):
obtain a license, certainlyreach out to a lawyer that's
going to be able to likenavigate that you know, better
than you may be able to, I thinkthat's a great point Carrie
just made, because with thesechanges, it may open up access
to individuals that may want toobtain a license that didn't
have that access before.
Speaker 1 (18:09):
So definitely just educate yourself.
Like Mr Berlino said, getinvolved and take advantage of
the opportunities that this maypresent.
Speaker 3 (18:19):
Awesome.
Yeah Well, there's definitelystill a lot to see about how SB
14 will really play out, butit's definitely clear that big
change is coming in licenseholders.
You do not want to be caughtoff guard.
Thank you to our wonderfulattorneys for joining us and
thank you to our viewers fortuning in and listening to Know
your Regulator.
(18:39):
If you found this helpful, besure to follow, subscribe, share
with your colleagues.
Until next time, stay inspiredand continue engaging with your
regulator.
Speaker 4 (18:49):
Know your Regulator.
The podcast that inspires youto engage.
This podcast is for educational purposes only, does
not constitute legal advice anddoes not create an
attorney-client relationship.
If you need legal assistanceabout a legal problem, contact
an attorney.
Speaker 3 (00:13):
Welcome back to Know your Regulator, the podcast that
inspires you to engage.
I am your host, simone Murphree, and today we're digging into
Senate Bill 14, also known asthe Texas Doge Bill, a newly
signed law that willfundamentally shift how
regulatory agencies in Texasoperate.
If you hold a professionallicense from health care to
(00:33):
trades to financial servicesyou'll want to hear how this law
can affect the rules thatgovern your license, and even
how disputes and enforcementactions are handled in the
future, and how disputes andenforcement actions are handled
in the future.
I'm joined today by attorneysfrom the Bertolino Law Firm, all
experts in administrative lawand professional license defense
.
So we'll get into it.
Let's start at the beginning.
(00:55):
Sb 14, or the Texas Doge Bill,was just signed into law.
Can you walk us through thegoal of this legislation, what
sparked it and what exactly itcreates?
Speaker 4 (01:07):
Sure, I can jump in first.
I think most people areprobably familiar with the
federal version of this.
That's been kind of in the newsin the last few months and so a
lot of states, it seemed, havebeen starting to either create
legislation like this orcommittees like this based on
the federal conduct that wasgoing on.
(01:28):
And so at this point it lookslike you know, this is supposed
to streamline efficiency, kindof like the federal version I
read.
You know Governor Abbott saidit's supposed to check the
growth on the administrativestate, really trying to continue
to like, safeguard and promotethe idea that Texas is this
(01:52):
business forward state.
So I think the main goal, atleast from what we've been
seeing from those that were likeproponents of it and then from
the governor, is that like thisis what's going to protect Texas
businesses and prevent, youknow, this unnecessarily
unneeded regulation surroundingthat.
Speaker 2 (02:14):
It's.
It's certainly got a lot ofconnection to all of the federal
DOJ efforts you see in the news, but it's also a long-standing
political theme.
I mean it's not something newthat state legislators and the
governor's office have onlyrecently started talking about.
I mean you can go back in timeand look at things like the Tea
(02:36):
Party movement.
You can see the governor'soffice created several years ago
a division in their office toaddress regulatory rules.
There's been periodic SunsetCommission reviews of things, so
a lot of these.
This is just maybe the morerecent version of addressing
(02:58):
some of these issues, you know,because it's current in the news
, but it's certainly got ahistory that goes back many,
many years because it's currentin the news, but it's certainly
got a history that goes backmany, many years.
Speaker 3 (03:11):
Yeah, are there any other laws or policies that are
in?
Speaker 2 (03:13):
place that can kind of relate to this bill.
I think one that the viewersmay be familiar with is the
Sunset Review Process.
Remember, this bill is focusedon the governor's office and
it's creating this efficiencyoffice within the governor's
office.
But remember that we've gotthree co-equal branches and the
legislature has a sunsetadvisory commission made up of
(03:37):
legislators and public membersand they review state agencies
every 12 years, including theirrulemaking authority and the
rules that they have in place.
So that's at least one way,from a more legislative centric
perspective, that efficiency islooked at and changes are
proposed.
Speaker 3 (03:59):
Interesting, good to know.
Do you know how those two, howthis Doge bill and Sunset, might
interact with each other in thefuture?
Well, at this point.
Speaker 2 (04:09):
I think they are kind of separate focuses.
The Doge bill is focused moreon what the governor's office
can do.
It has some provisions thattalk about the court's role, but
I think it's kind of housed inthe governor's office, and so I
think that that's very differentfrom the sunset review process,
(04:32):
which is kind of alegislatively oriented process.
But you never know what mayhappen down the road as things
progress.
I think it will be veryinteresting to see how this
public policy pronouncementmanifests itself and as we move
forward.
Speaker 3 (04:49):
Yeah, absolutely Well .
This new office is not justreviewing rules, it's
potentially reshaping how entireagencies function.
What kind of impact might thathave for state agencies that
regulate license holders?
Speaker 1 (05:06):
Of course, I think a reshaping is occurring and a
plethora of things may happen.
And a plethora of things mayhappen, One with the
consolidation of government, andthis is what Texas DOJ will do.
It will essentially shrink thegovernment in the regulatory
landscape.
Therefore, if you have alicense, if you have anything
(05:28):
pending before any of theseboards, it may slow down the
process.
Also, too, we do have the CodeConstruction Act.
If you have any rights that areafforded to you under any
previous rules, and with thechanging of the rules, then that
also may further slow down theprocess, because it has to be
evaluated which rules may applyto a particular process for a
(05:52):
particular license holder.
Speaker 3 (05:54):
So, moving forward to a particular process for a
particular license holder, somoving forward, we will
definitely see a slowdown in theprocess with various boards.
Yeah, interesting, interesting.
And what could this mean for anagency's ability to respond to,
(06:18):
like an emerging situation likethe teacher scandal?
You know, how could that affectTEA's ability to respond to
something like?
Speaker 1 (06:22):
that oh well with those types of issues because
they'll be so high on the list,because the boards are there to
protect the public, I think theywill still have an avenue to do
that.
But when it comes to everydayprocesses for license holders
submitting applications andother types of things that need
(06:43):
to be handled before the board,those processes may definitely
experience a slowdown.
Speaker 3 (06:51):
Gotcha, okay, okay and like things like being
docketed kind of things likethat, like throughout, basically
, anything kind of touching alicense holder you're saying
could be potentially slowed downby this, absolutely Gotcha.
Well, when you guys aredefending licenses, we know that
rules are everything.
So how could SB 14 affect thoselicensees who are currently
(07:15):
under investigation or for thosewho are trying to stay
compliant?
Speaker 2 (07:34):
this is very typical for legislation that if you
already have something that'shappened in the past that's
currently being evaluated, acomplaint, some kind of
disciplinary thing, that's goingto be covered under the old law
, so you're not going to have toworry about you know, you're in
the middle of a complaintinvestigation and suddenly
they're changing the rules onyou.
This is going to apply to rulesthat get proposed and approved
(07:56):
and adopted going forward.
It's kind of lookingprospective and not going to be
applied retroactively, andthat's generally the rule when
legislation gets passed.
Unless there's very specificlanguage, you generally view it
as prospective, moving forward.
Speaker 3 (08:13):
That's good.
That's really good for ourlicense holders to know.
For those who are trying tostay compliant, could we see a
potential gray area where youknow people might be caught
without proper guidance?
Speaker 2 (08:26):
Yeah, Well, I don't think, simone, that's too likely
.
I mean, the gist of this Dogebill is really trying to go
through the regulatory processand find where there's room for
efficiencies, where maybethere's too much red tape or too
(08:47):
many requirements, things thathopefully are not substantive
right Because the legislaturepasses the bills, the actual
laws that substantively addressconsumer protection and license
holder obligations.
What this bill is really focusedon is hey, how do we do that
efficiently If there are thingsthat extra steps that don't need
(09:10):
to be done, if there's red tape, extra steps that don't need to
be done, if there's red tape,extra applications or forms that
have to be filled out?
You know, the goal is to tryand make things more efficient
and there's always room forefficiency and growth.
I mean, with such a largegovernment and so many wide
varieties of processes governingeverything you know pretty much
(09:32):
under the sun, every type ofprofession, occupation or even,
you know, industries, it'sthere's definitely things I
think we're going to find overtime that can be done better,
more efficiently and with lessred tape.
So that's what I think reallythe gist of the, the focus of
the bill, is.
Speaker 3 (09:52):
So we kind of were talking about it a little bit
before this episode.
One of the biggest pieces of SB14 is about the courts no
longer having to defer toagencies' interpretations of
their own rules.
Can one of you break that downfor us?
What does that really mean?
Speaker 5 (10:10):
I'll take that.
Does that really mean I'll takethat?
You know?
I think that this is probablyone of the most significant
changes in the law, and whatthis is called is what's called
judicial deference.
And historically, what Texascourts have done is they've
deferred to the stateoccupational licensing board's
interpretation of the law,rather than decide the meaning
(10:34):
of the laws on their own.
And you know the historical orthe policy reason behind that
was the belief that judgeslacked the knowledge to
interpret these technicallanguage that's in the, in the
statutes and, and that theagencies are better suited to do
that rather than a judge.
Agencies are better suited todo that rather than a judge.
And again, historically, whatit did is it allowed these
(10:57):
government agencies that do theinterpreting it almost always in
a way that favored the agency'sown interests.
So what?
it did is really created asystemic bias that favored the
government going into, you know,a lot of these cases and now,
with this new change in the law,judicial deference is basically
(11:18):
no longer current law.
You know, now the judges can dothe interpretation, and what it
does now is it, you know,explains how this affects the
judicial review.
And what it does is, in manyways, it empowers the licensees
and gives them more power, andthat's, you know, a huge change.
Speaker 3 (11:40):
Yeah, absolutely.
And would you guys say thatthis maybe we will see more
appeals and more challenges incourt, and you know what are
some of the things that licenseholders should look out for with
this big change?
I mean, it absolutely could.
Speaker 5 (11:58):
I mean.
What it does is it creates thenew opportunities for these
license holders to challengethese regulations in court.
Really, it begins to level theplaying field a little bit more.
You know you've already hadthese agencies that have
advantages going into appealslike you know there's a.
You know you've already hadthese agencies that have
advantages going into appeals.
Like you know there's a.
You know the standard of review, for instance.
(12:18):
You know the.
You know the agency's decisions.
In order to overturn them, youoften had to challenge the
standard review of what's calledsubstantial evidence and
whether it was arbitrary,capricious or an abuse of
discretion.
And those are kinds ofadvantages that these agencies
have, particularly on appeal.
So what this has done is, youknow, levels the playing field a
(12:40):
little bit more.
It allows the you know thelicense holders to, you know, to
pursue their cases and havebetter defenses and better
arguments to be made.
Speaker 2 (12:52):
Completely agree with Tony.
I think it does level theplaying field we saw in recent
years at the federal level.
The US Supreme Court hasreversed this same concept in
the federal system and said no,we're not going to defer to an
agency's interpretation of thelaws they're responsible for in
(13:13):
their regulatory sphere.
And so what you saw in Texas formany years was a decision from
the Texas Supreme Court it'scalled Texas Citizens and again
it kind of gave that advantageto state agencies.
And so as long as the stateagency's interpretation was
(13:33):
reasonable and was based, youknow, wasn't contrary to the
plain language, then it wasdifficult for a license holder,
when directly competing with theagency making legal arguments,
to say no, judge, you ought tofollow our interpretation,
because there was a whole seriesof cases, including Texas
citizens, that said no Judge,you need to defer to the state
(13:57):
agency because there's theexperts on this.
So to Tony's point I reallythink it is going to
revolutionize the landscape interms of, hey, we're on a
playing field.
Both the regulated and theregulatory agency can bring
legal arguments to the judge,but at the end of the day
they're on equal footing and thejudge is going to make the
decision.
Speaker 3 (14:18):
Yeah, no, it really sounds like it has the potential
to kind of shake things up.
Well, to wrap up, guys, I'dlove to hear just one piece of
advice from each of you what aresomething that license holders
can do today to prepare forthese changes coming with the
Doge bill?
Speaker 5 (14:37):
I think that it's important that you know, if you
are a license holder and you'relistening or watching this
podcast is that you reallyeducate yourself very well in
this new change.
You know and have a goodunderstanding of what this bill
does and how it couldpotentially impact your, your
livelihood and your career andyour and your work.
(14:58):
And you know and, coupled withthat, I also advise that you
know you, if you are in a placewhere you know a position in
your life where you've receiveda complaint, notice of some sort
and you're facing aninvestigation and that could
ultimately end up in a court,you know make sure that you're
hiring the right lawyer and youknow you're finding attorneys
(15:21):
that have experience in thisarea, that have knowledge in
this new change in the law, aswe mentioned before.
You know this significantchange in judicial deference.
Speaker 2 (15:45):
You know this significant change in judicial
deference.
You know these are importantparts of this law that an
experienced lawyer will be ableto use and, in a word, I would
say it's opportunity.
There's two opportunities herethis bill presents.
One is license holders may havenew or aggressive legal
arguments because they're onequal footing with the agency
when it comes to interpretingthe laws because of this change.
(16:07):
The second is the opportunitythat we preach every day here in
the Know your Regulator podcastis to engage with your
regulator.
This bill basically gives you awhole other avenue to approach
the regulatory world.
Talk to the governor's office,get involved, make suggestions
about how your industry could bemore efficient, more
(16:31):
streamlined.
Maybe you have an idea or asuggestion about something that
needs to change.
This is, in a way, thegovernment, the legislature and
Governor Abbott saying hey, wewant to hear from you, and so I
would say opportunity.
Those are the two bigopportunities to take away from
this bill, I agree.
Speaker 1 (16:49):
I agree with Troy.
This is a huge opportunity toget involved with your
government and be the face ofyour industry and really effect
change when these rules arebeing made and legislation is
being passed.
Speaker 4 (17:04):
So definitely use it as an opportunity to get
involved yeah, I would echo whateverybody says and I would say
to like listeners out there, ifthey, um, you know, maybe had
applied for a license in thepast or there were certain
issues that come up, you knowhad come up or certain legal um
problems, like troy said, thismight be your opportunity to try
(17:26):
again, you know.
So, if you, you know, had issuesbefore now, like we've said,
this might actually benefit thepeople as opposed to the
agencies, and so it's.
It is important to kind of stayabreast of what's going on and
what this you know, doge isdoing.
And then if you think that you,you know, would like to, you
know, try again in a differentfield, or try, you know, to
(17:49):
obtain a license, certainlyreach out to a lawyer that's
going to be able to likenavigate that you know, better
than you may be able to, I thinkthat's a great point Carrie
just made, because with thesechanges, it may open up access
to individuals that may want toobtain a license that didn't
have that access before.
Speaker 1 (18:09):
So definitely just educate yourself.
Like Mr Berlino said, getinvolved and take advantage of
the opportunities that this maypresent.
Speaker 3 (18:19):
Awesome.
Yeah Well, there's definitelystill a lot to see about how SB
14 will really play out, butit's definitely clear that big
change is coming in licenseholders.
You do not want to be caughtoff guard.
Thank you to our wonderfulattorneys for joining us and
thank you to our viewers fortuning in and listening to Know
your Regulator.
(18:39):
If you found this helpful, besure to follow, subscribe, share
with your colleagues.
Until next time, stay inspiredand continue engaging with your
regulator.
Speaker 4 (18:49):
Know your Regulator.
The podcast that inspires youto engage.
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