A Conversation with LARA Director Marlon Brown

In this episode of the LARA Living Room, we sit down with LARA Director Marlon Brown to discuss his background and his path to becoming the Director of the Michigan Department of Licensing and Regulatory Affairs. 

Episode Transcript

Anastasha Osborn (00:00):
Hello and welcome back to the LARA Living

(00:22):
Room.
I am Anastasha Osborne, yourhost.
And today we are going to betaking a closer look at the
heart of LARA.
And if you missed the firstepisode or maybe you just need a
refresher, LARA stands for theDepartment of Licensing and
Regulatory Affairs.
And with that being said, ifyou missed the first episode, I
highly encourage you to go backand listen.

(00:43):
It was a great introduction asto kind of what this podcast is
going to be all about.
So if you haven't, go check itout and then come back and
listen to this one.
So in today's episode, we areactually going to be sitting
back down with Marlon Brown, whois the director here at LARA.
And we're really going to divemore into his background,

(01:03):
leadership style, and really theimportant work that we do here
at LARA.
And again, as a refresher.
Director Brown is a member ofGovernor Gretchen Whitmer's
cabinet, and he leads the StateDepartment, LARA, that is
responsible really for the vastmajority of Michigan's
regulatory environment.
So we'll kind of dive into whatthat really means here in just

(01:24):
a moment.
So again, like I said, we'regoing to really explore his
leadership journey, the criticalrole that LARA gets to play in
everyday lives of Michiganders,and again, how we protect people
and how we promote business.
So you'll hear us say that alot.
That is our mission statementSo as always, warm up your
coffee, get comfortable, and ifyou are on the road, please make

(01:45):
sure to drive safe.
Watch out for those orangebarrels while you're out there.
All right, well, you areofficially now in the Lara
living room.
Well, Marlon, welcome back.

Marlon Brown (01:54):
Thanks for having me back.
I guess the first episode wentokay.

Anastasha Osborn (01:58):
You know, I think it went all right.
No complaints yet.
Uh, so I kind of wanted tostart, you know, a little bit
about you.
I know our first episode was alot about kind of what LARA
does.
Um, so I wanted you to sharejust a little bit about your
background and really what ledyou to leadership and
specifically this role at LARA.

Marlon Brown (02:16):
Definitely.
Well, my background is actuallyin political science and public
administration.
I attended school at AmericanUniversity for my undergraduate,
and then I pursued graduatestudies at both the University
of Delaware, go Blue Hens, andalso Valdosta State University.
And so I've always known that Iwanted to go into public
service and government.
I was one of those kids thatactually liked to watch the

(02:40):
State of the Union address andwatch the presidential
inauguration and pay attentionto what was going on in
politics.
And so really, when I startedworking for state government, it
was in the Supreme Court Andwe're recording this right now
in my office.
And I look out across theparking lot and I can see the
Hall of Justice.
And that is where I started mystate government career.

(03:01):
I've been with the state ofMichigan now for 15 years.
And I've been in a variety ofdepartments.
So whether it was the SupremeCourt, the state budget office,
the Department ofTransportation, or now in LARA,
I feel like I've gotten a reallygreat experience of
understanding how stategovernment works and how it can
have an impact on the people ofthis state So I came to LARA in

(03:24):
2019 and that was actually inthe policy and legislative
affairs role.
We call it OPLA here and Iworked there for about two years
and it was really a greateducation on how LARA operates
because at any time we've got acouple hundred bills that we're
monitoring in the legislature,different ideas on how

(03:46):
regulations can be improved,tweaked, lessened, or new things
that we should be regulating.
And so after After spendingsome time working in policy, I
had a chance to move into thedirector's office as chief
administrative officer, and thatreally kind of furthered my
exploration into all things LARAand the different types of

(04:06):
programs and activities that wehave here.
And then in 2023, former LARAdirector Orlene Hawks retired
from state service after 25years, and at the time I was
asked to step in as actingdirector, and eventually asked
to stay on as permanentdirector.
And so that is kind of like asnapshot into my state

(04:28):
government career.
You know, I tell people all thetime, I had no idea when I
first started working at stategovernment that one day I could
be in position to lead a statedepartment.
And so it's been a phenomenalride and one that I'm grateful
for every single day.

Anastasha Osborn (04:43):
Yeah, no, that's incredible.
I was just thinking, youmentioned you've worked in a lot
of different departments,different roles in state
government.

Marlon Brown (04:53):
Thank you.

Anastasha Osborn (04:53):
And it made me reflect a little bit just on my
time working in stategovernment.
And I've only worked for LARA.
That's the only department I'vebeen in.
So I know I am biased.
And so my question for you is,because you've been in public
service for so many years, andagain, in so many different
areas, and you lead a departmentthat really does touch

(05:14):
everything, as we mentioned inour first episode, occupational
licensing, construction codes,cannabis, all of that good
stuff.
What does leadership look likeyou know, here at LARA.

Marlon Brown (05:25):
Well, I'll say the quick answer is leadership is
very complex.
We have a really complexagency.
There's a lot of differentthings that we do.
I always say, I use a caranalogy, right?
You drive a car, so you thinkyou know how it works.
But when you pop that hood, yourealize there's so much more
that you don't understand.
And that was my experiencemoving from the policy and

(05:47):
legislative role into thedirector's office.
I thought I had an idea of whatLARA did, and there was still
so much more that I waslearning.
But that's the beauty of LARAis that I'm learning every day.
And so that becomes a part ofmy leadership, understanding
what I don't know and beingwilling to learn and to grow and
to rely on others to help meunderstand and be in a position

(06:08):
to lead the best way I can.
I would also say there are somelessons I've learned about
leadership being in a role likethis.
One of them is that you do haveto challenge the status quo.
And I say doing that in aconstructive way.
And so last year, LARA, wetalked a lot about the pursuit
of excellence and that beingdifferent from perfection.

(06:30):
You know, challenging thestatus quo is saying, how can we
do this better?
How can we continue to go afterdoing excellence in all that we
do?
And so I think there's ahealthy way to do that, always
striving for more and beingconstructive in how we're
challenging the status quo.
The second is just relying onteam members.
I tell our team members all thetime that I cannot do my job if

(06:55):
they're not doing their jobeffectively.
And so we have subject matterexperts all over the place.
We have people who work forLARA who are nurses or who have
backgrounds in the skilledtrades or inspecting elevators
or things like that.
Those are areas that I do nothave proficiency in.
And so I rely on a lot ofskilled team members to know

(07:16):
their craft, to know their job,and then to be able to advance
things up the food chain.
Like, hey, we should do thisdifferently.
I've worked in this field for20 years, I think this would be
an improvement.
And so those are the types ofthings that I listen to because
I need our team members who havethe experience to help me
understand where we can improve.
And then the last thing is, youknow, when you realize what you

(07:39):
don't know, it kind of forcesyou to be humble.
And so I try to stay humble inthis role and realize that, yes,
I get to have the fancy titleand be out front on advocating
on behalf of the department.
But at the sport.
We need each other.
And when I think about what,how awesome of a privilege it is

(08:02):
to lead this department, thatis what keeps me grounded and
humbled and hopefully able tolead in the best way that I can.

Anastasha Osborn (08:10):
Yeah.
Two things actually popped intomy head when you were talking.
And one of them is kind of theidea, right?
When you are, and again, wementioned in our first episode,
we have a lot of differentbureaus and agencies.
And when you're in thosebureaus specifically or within
those agencies specifically, youget that tunnel vision, right?
So you start to only see whatit is that you do.

(08:33):
You don't see the biggerpicture of all that LARA does.
And from my experience workingwith a cannabis regulatory
agency, I'm only thinking aboutthe cannabis world.
I'm only thinking about what'sgoing on in our world.
And so it was...
It was incredible when I wasable to eventually come up to
the director's office and I wasable to kind of see a bigger

(08:54):
bird's eye view of everythingthat we did and everything that
we were able to do together andthe leadership and everybody
working together as a team.
It feels very welcoming and itdidn't feel like so scary as I
thought it was going to be.
And everyone thinks thedirector's office and they get
nervous.
So it really was.
I think the leadership herereally does have that trickle

(09:15):
down effect.
I think being very humble, asyou mentioned, and having that
open door, I think it just makesit, it trickles down to
everyone else, right?
They want to do a better job.
They want to work harder andwork together.
So I definitely see thathappening.
From

Marlon Brown (09:29):
the top down.
And one of the things youmentioned about working in your
specific area, being cannabis atthe time, and not really
understanding everything elsethat LARA did, I think that's
one of the great reasons whywe're doing this podcast is that
we have people who work forLARA.
They'll listen to this andthey'll say, oh, that's what BCC
does, Bureau of ConstructionCodes for people who don't work
for LARA, or that's what theBureau of Fire Services does.

(09:51):
And so it's really an educationfor all of us to better
appreciate the diversity ofthings that we do at LARA.

Anastasha Osborn (09:58):
Absolutely.
Let's talk a little bit aboutour tagline here at LARA.
So people probably hear us sayall the time, you know, we're
protecting people, we'repromoting business.
So what does that actually meanand look like in practice?

Marlon Brown (10:10):
That's a really good one.
You know, I said I startedinLARA Lara in 2019.
And at the time, the departmenthad gone through a
reorganization, meaning some ofthe programs that LARA
previously oversaw weretransferred to other
departments.
So a couple of the things,unemployment insurance, for
example, used to be part ofLARA.
And then again, moved to theDepartment of Labor and Economic

(10:31):
Opportunity as part of a reorgin 2019.
So at the time, the leadershipused that reorganization to
reevaluate its mission, vision,and values.
And so up to that time, Larahad the tagline,
customer-driven,business-minded, which was
really a good tagline.

(10:51):
It had been that way, I think,for probably the better part of
a decade.
And so we kind of startedthere.
We looked at what our revisedmission statement ended up
being.
And it was a little bit longerthan I like when you try to
remember what it is and be ableto rattle it off the top of your
head.
But our mission was that weprotect people and promote

(11:14):
business in Michigan throughtransparent and accessible
regulatory solutions.
And so it doesn't really rolloff the tongue, but it still
encapsulates what we do.
And so I thought aboutfootball.
One school said is play like achampion today.
And so that's their mantra.
And so they said, well, what inthis mission statement will

(11:37):
really resonate?
What can I just boil it down toat the end of the day?
And it was protect people andpromote business, which really
talks about the two functionsthat we perform as a regulatory
agency.
The first being protecting thehealth, safety, and well-being
of Michiganders.
So that's a public protectionpiece.
And then the second is that weactually do play a role in the

(12:01):
economic vitality of our statebecause we are helping people to
start and run a business.
And it doesn't matter whetheryou are the business owner or
you work for the business,you're part of that economic
engine.
And so we get to play a part inthat.
But at the end of the day, wetalk about how diverse LARA is.
We have a lot of differentfunctions, but they all still

(12:23):
funnel back to that key missionof we're here to protect people
and we're here to promotebusiness.
And if we focus on doing bothof those activities, then we
ultimately increase the qualityof life here in Michigan.
We want it to be a great placeto live, work and play.

Anastasha Osborn (12:40):
Yeah, absolutely.
You mentioned kind of programs.
Can you have or do you have, Iguess, any examples of programs
or decisions where you havereally seen that mission come to
life?

Marlon Brown (12:52):
Yeah, one of the benefits of being in the
director's office is getting theopportunity to shadow some of
our inspectors.
And you've been on a couple ofour inspections as well,
Anastasha.
So the first one I'm going tosay where we see our mission
come to life is actuallysomething that we did together,
and that was to go on anamusement inspection at Michigan

(13:14):
Adventure last spring.
And so, you know, something weprobably don't think about when
we take our kids or our familiesto a carnival or to a theme
park or what have you is all ofthe work that goes into
inspecting those rides to makesure they're safe to get on.
And, you know, people love thethrill ride, but we don't want

(13:36):
the thrill to turn dangerous.
And so when we tagged alongwith the inspector, you know, we
walked up a water slide so thatwe could actually see the
different pieces where theyconnect together to make sure
that they're not loose and thatnobody's going to, you know,
tear their skin while ridingdown it or something like that

(13:57):
and then of course who canforget climbing up to the top of
the Mohawk roller coaster Ialways tell people I am not a
roller coaster enthusiast myselfbut climbing up the roller
coaster was really fun and sothat's one of those things where
it's like yeah that'ssomebody's job and they're doing
that so that our families canmake sure that when we go out to

(14:19):
the amusement park that we havea fun time And a safe time.
I'd also say another one thatwe did just recently is a school
construction visit.
And so Mount Hope School righthere in Lansing was a place that
we got to visit.
They're currently building itand hoping to open up for the
coming school year.
And it was really just amazingto see our Bureau of

(14:43):
Construction Code and our Bureauof Fire Services teaming up
together to make sure that theschool is passing its
inspections and that everythingis in place.
so that kids will have awonderful new school facility to
learn in this fall and so Ilove seeing that I love getting
a better understanding of whatour inspectors do and how it

(15:04):
contributes to our work as adepartment but then you see at
the other end of that what doesthat lead to it leads to a brand
new school it leads to thrillsand chills on the roller coaster
but it's a really greatintersection of how our work
comes to play in real life thelast thing I'll say though is
that yes it's great to go oninspections but I also get the

(15:27):
the the nit and gritty if youwill of what being a licensee
looks like and that is actuallythrough my family so my wife is
a nurse and which means she'slicensed through LARA and you
know I'll see the little youknow licensure renewal card come
in the mail addressed to herand I'll see her log into the
system and do her renewal andyou know even here if something

(15:49):
doesn't work well and so youknow we We're not just oblivious
to what the real lifeexperience of being a licensee
is like.
You know, I hear from itfirsthand what went well, what
did not go well.
And so that is another way thatwe see our programs come to
real life.
How does it impact the personon the other end that has to

(16:09):
utilize our services or utilizeour programs?

Anastasha Osborn (16:14):
Yeah.
You know, I'm thinking about alittle bit, what's one thing?
And again, I know we kind ofwere talking about a lot of the
impact that we have.
everything that we're doing.
But what is something that youwish more people understood you
know, about LARA's impactspecifically?

Marlon Brown (16:29):
No, that's a really good question.
And I thought about this acouple of ways.
You know, we do talk about theimpact that LARA has.
You know, once you're born, youknow, many of us are born in
hospitals.
We have a role in in regulatinghospitals or, you know, whether
it's a midwife or a doctor whowho helps you come into this

(16:51):
world.
We have a role in licensing andregulating those professions.
And even on the exact oppositeend of the spectrum, when your
loved ones are laid to rest.
We have a role in regulatingmortuary science, and the state
cemetery commissioner is part ofLARA.
So we really do have an impacton one's life throughout their

(17:15):
entire life cycle, if you will.
And that is a tremendousresponsibility.
It's also a tremendousprivilege.
But I think the thing that Iwould want people to most
understand about LARA is, youknow, there are real people that
work in this department thatcare deeply about what they're

(17:35):
doing and see it as a way tomake a difference in the world.
And so a lot of times when wetalk about government, it's
like, oh, those politicians oroh, those Lansing bureaucrats.
And I think we have to stepback from that.
And that's what I'm hopefulwith this podcast is that we can
see the faces behind the rulesand the regulations and behind

(17:57):
the inspections and realizethese are real people.
They have a job.
They're proud of their job.
They see their job as having apositive impact in their state
and in their community.
And it is something to be proudof.
And so, yeah, we're real peoplewith real jobs, and we care

(18:19):
deeply about those jobs.
And then the last thing I'd sayis regulation is not a one-way
street.
we require partnership with alot of different people in order
for regulation to be effective.
And it starts with thelegislature.
They will create laws and thenleave it up to us to enforce it.

(18:41):
But we have to work with ourlicensees.
We have to work withprofessional associations.
We have to work with impactedparties.
Anyone who has a complaint, wehave to work with.
And so it's really, in orderfor us to be effective, we have
to be positively working with avariety of stakeholders.

(19:02):
So I'd like to think that weare not part of the problem but
part of the solution, and thatcomes with having an open,
honest dialogue and workingrelationship with a variety of
people.

Anastasha Osborn (19:15):
Yeah, you mentioned we are just people,
right?
And a lot of our work as publicservants is a thankless job.
And a lot of our work happensvery quietly, behind the scenes.
people don't really knowexactly all the things that we
do.
Can you kind of give us a didyou know moment that actually

(19:36):
might surprise some of ourlisteners?

Marlon Brown (19:38):
Definitely.
In the first episode, we kindof talked about what is a
surprise that LARA does, andthat's the Unarmed Combat
Commission.
But the did you know moment Iwanted to say for this episode
is actually an experience I hadwhen I was in the legislative
and policy office.
And One day I got a call from astate senator in Indiana that

(19:59):
wanted to talk about theIndiana, Michigan state line
remonumentation effort.
And I had no idea what any ofthose words meant.
I was like, what did you justsay to me?
And did a little bit ofresearch and found out that we
have an office in LARA calledthe State Survey and Land
Remonumentation Office.

(20:19):
And if you type remonumentationinto Microsoft Word, it always
thinks that it's spelled wrongor that it's a made-up word.
But what that means is that wehave the State Boundary
Commission.
The State Boundary Commissionhelps to deal with land survey
at a local level, at a statelevel.
If there are disputes overwhere municipal jurisdictions

(20:40):
start and end, where people'sindividual property starts and
ends, that impacts where you paytaxes and all sorts of
different things.
And so this state senator wascalling us because...
We obviously share a borderwith Indiana and the border had
not been surveyed in severaldecades.

(21:02):
And there are land surveyorsthat literally walk land and
they put in posts in the ground.
And sometimes those posts arewooden posts.
Sometimes they're cement postsor steel posts.
And every so often you have togo back and make sure that the
posts are still there so thatyou have a physical record of
where the land is divided.

(21:22):
And so I was assured that wedid know where the
Michigan-Indiana boundaryexists, that we weren't talking
about a matter of miles, but amatter of inches and that sort
of thing.
But it does make a differenceat the local level, at the city
level, at the county level, andeven for individual property
owners to know where theirproperty starts and where

(21:44):
someone else's property begins.
And so it's actually been afascinating issue.
It's one that our legislaturehas been working on in
partnership with the Indianalegislature.
It's been an ongoing project,but it's just one of those
things when I first heard it, Iassumed that the senator had the
wrong department.
And I learned very quickly tonot second guess somebody when

(22:10):
they say, hey, I'm calling aboutthis issue.
Does LARA do it?
Chances are we do.
So there you go.
Next time you're driving intoOhio or into Michigan or Indiana
and you see the welcome tostate sign or the official state
line sign, know that someone atLARA is helping to make sure

(22:30):
that we actually know where thatsign should be.

Anastasha Osborn (22:32):
I'm laughing because the question was what
might surprise our listeners,but actually that just surprised
me.
I also did not.
I just learned something new.

Marlon Brown (22:42):
Always something new to learn at LARA.
Every day.
We call it LARA University.

Anastasha Osborn (22:47):
I love that.
We should put that on at-shirt.
Well, before I let you go, I Ihave to ask, what really keeps
you inspired in this role andwhat fuels your commitment to
public service?

Marlon Brown (23:03):
Yeah, for me, it is the people.
And I say that in a couple ofdifferent lights.
One is the people that I get towork with.
We call it Team LARA.
It really is a team.
We use a lot of sportsanalogies here, which is funny
because I am not athleticmyself, but I think people can
relate to the concept of beingon a team.

(23:23):
And so, you know, we're oneteam, LARA.
Yeah, you may work in one areaof the department or another,
but at the end of the day, we'reone team.
We're all in this together.
And I feel so blessed to be apart of this team.
And I say to help lead the teambecause we're all leaders in
our own right.
They're all things that we aredoing every day from, you know,

(23:46):
from the newest person to themost senior person to really be
a leader in their work.
And so the people that I get towork with really make this
special and inspire me.
And then we cannot forget aboutthe people that we serve.
Kind of goes back to that valueof public service.
At the end of the day, we're inthis job because we want to
help people.

(24:07):
We want to protect people.
We want to promote business.
It's about the people.
And if it weren't for thepeople of Michigan, we wouldn't
have these jobs.
And if it weren't for thepeople of Michigan, we would
really not have that core reasonof existing.
That's why we're in publicservice.
It's about the people.
But the last thing I'll say,and this is probably my mushy

(24:29):
moment of the podcast, but Ihave a child now and I did not
always have a child when Istarted in state government 15
years ago, but now I have achild.
He's nine years old and I cometo work every day and I look at
his picture on my desk and Ithink I'm doing this for my son
and I'm doing it for hisgeneration so that the Michigan

(24:49):
that he grows up in is a placethat he's proud to call home and
hopefully a place that he staysand starts his family in.
And so that's what keeps megoing is thinking about my son
thinking about his friends andhis classmates and the fact that
we want them to love Michiganthe same way that we do and be

(25:11):
able to call this a home and ahome that they can be proud of.

Anastasha Osborn (25:14):
Yeah, absolutely.
We're really proudMidwesterners or Michiganders,
whichever title you want tohold.
Yeah, that's beautiful.
Thank you for sharing that.

Marlon Brown (25:23):
Well, thank you for having me again.
And it's really been a pleasureto share with you and all of
our listeners, but hopefullyboth inside and outside.
Yeah.
I

Anastasha Osborn (25:34):
wish that there was a way that we could
track how many are external andhow many are internal.
Well, thank you again, Marlon.
I really do appreciate it.
Giving us a glimpse, you know,not just to a LARA does, but
what you do.
So I really appreciate gettingto know you a little bit better.
And to our listeners, thank youfor spending time with us.
You can be sure to follow theLARA Living Room so you don't

(25:56):
miss out on any of our upcomingepisodes.
Coming down the line, we'regoing to feature some stories
from across the department.
So you'll get a little insightinto some of our different
bureaus and agencies.
So I'm looking forward to that.
All right.
Well, from our living room toyours.
See you next time.

Unknown (26:13):
Music