May 28, 2025 • 14 mins
In this kickoff episode, LARA Director Marlon Brown introduces the podcast, explains LARA’s mission, and shares what listeners can expect from future episodes.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Anastasha Osborne (00:00):
Oh, Hi there.
Make yourself comfortable.
I am Anastasha Osborne,Assistant Deputy Director here
(00:22):
at the Michigan Department ofLicensing and Regulatory
Affairs and I am so happy to beyour host as we kick off this
brand new space to connect,share stories, and give you an
inside look at the people andpurpose behind LARA.
Now, I've been a part of TeamLARA for going on about eight
years, and I am so passionateabout the work that we do and
the impact that it has acrossMichigan.
So I'm hoping that through thispodcast, I can be your guide as
(00:44):
we meet the people who keepthings moving and then dive into
the different stories thatdon't always make headlines, but
they absolutely matter.
So the LARA Living Room isgoing to be your all access pass
to a department that helpsprotect people and promote
business through the state.
So whether you're a licensee,an industry partner, or part of
LARA, this podcast is perfectfor you.
We're going to explore thework, the why and the people
(01:08):
behind the policies that reallyshape Michigan's future.
And what better way to startthat than with our very first
guest, Dr.
Marlon Brown.
He is the director of LARA anda member of Governor Gretchen
Whitmer's cabinet.
So Dr.
Brown leads the department thatoversees nearly 2 million
licensed individuals andbusinesses across dozens of
industries.
He's held leadership roles atthe Michigan Supreme Court, the
(01:32):
Michigan Department ofTransportation, and the State
Budget Office.
And listen, his academicbackground is just as
impressive.
He holds a bachelor's degree inpolitical science from American
University, a master's inpublic administration from the
University of Delaware and adoctorate in public
administration from ValdostaState University.
Wow, incredible.
So simply put, Dr.
(01:53):
Brown really brings a deepunderstanding of how government
works.
And today he's going to helpkick things off with the Laura
Living Room with insight,experience, and again, a look at
what really drives the workthat we do.
So go ahead, fill up yourcoffee, grab a seat and get
comfortable because you are nowin the Laura Living Room.
All right.
Hello, Marlon.
(02:13):
How's it going today?
Director Marlon Brown (02:14):
I'm great, Anastasha.
How are you?
Anastasha Osborne (02:16):
I'm doing good.
Thank you.
Welcome to our first episode ofour new podcast.
Director Marlon Brown (02:19):
Thank you.
It's a pleasure to be here.
Anastasha Osborne (02:21):
Yeah, it's very exciting.
We got a couple of really goodquestions lined up here, so I'm
excited to kick things off.
Director Marlon Brown (02:26):
Looking forward to it.
Anastasha Osborne (02:28):
So before we really kind of jump into the
meat and potatoes, so to speak,of the podcast, I want to start
with a couple of the basics orappetizers, so to speak.
So LARA does so much for thestate of Michigan.
But for those who may notreally know the full scope, can
you give us just like a bigpicture view of what Laura does
and then, of course, why itmatters?
Director Marlon Brown (02:49):
Well, LARA is one of 18 principal
departments and agencies instate government.
A lot of people may be familiarwith getting their driver's
license from the Department ofState or seeing orange barrels
and knowing that that's theDepartment of Transportation.
Well, LARA is just as big inits scope and what it does.
We are responsible for most ofthe licensing and regulatory
(03:10):
actions of the state So we haveover 200 different license types
that we issue.
And we have about 2 millionlicensees when you look at both
individuals and entities.
And so that includes healthprofessionals, if you're a
nurse, a doctor, a physicianassistant, or even some of our
health facilities likehospitals, long-term care, and
(03:32):
homes for the aged.
We also have variousoccupations that are licensed
through our department.
So if you are a builder,accountant, a realtor.
If you work in the constructiontrades, a lot of skilled trades
professions are also regulatedby Laura.
If you're a plumber, if you'rean electrician, a lot of that is
impacted by the work that wedo.
(03:54):
Outside of that, if you have abusiness or a nonprofit in the
state, you're regulated byLaura.
And if you ever enjoy analcoholic beverage, the Liquor
Control Commission is part ofLaura.
We also regulate publicservices in this state, and we
even have our hands inindustries such as cannabis and
(04:14):
the indigent defense commissionso all of our state public
defender offices in the stateare part of team lara at the end
of the day we do a lot ofdifferent things but our work is
vital to enhancing the qualityof life in the state of michigan
and so we take great pride inthat
Anastasha Osborne (04:29):
That's incredible um you know hearing
that we do so much and we touchso many people here in Michigan.
Aside from the fact that we doso much, what is one part of
LARA that you really feel wouldsurprise people when they hear
about it?
Director Marlon Brown (04:42):
I love that question.
Whenever I go out and talkabout what we do, I usually end
with the fact that we have thestate's Unarmed Combat
Commission.
It always raises eyebrows and Iusually get a few people that
will ask, what is that?
So the Unarmed CombatCommission is the current
version of the Boxing Commissionthat was originally established
many years ago.
(05:02):
And so it regulates not onlythe sport of boxing, but any
other form of like kickboxing ormixed martial arts.
Mai Tai was just recentlyintroduced a couple years ago.
And so that's a really uniqueone out of everything that we
do.
Unarmed combat and theregulation of those types of
sports is something that isunique to a state government
(05:25):
agency.
Anastasha Osborne (05:26):
Yeah, no, that really is.
Have you ever made your way outto an event?
Director Marlon Brown (05:29):
I have not.
Still on the bucket list.
Anastasha Osborne (05:34):
Yeah, I've been to a couple of their their
board meetings or theircommission meetings, and they're
pretty interesting.
So I'll have to add that to ourlist.
Director Marlon Bro (05:41):
Definitely.
Anastasha Osborne (05:43):
All right.
Let's talk a little bit aboutwhy we launched this podcast.
You know, as I mentioned, kindof in our intro a little bit, we
kind of have this idea, right,of why we want to start this
podcast and creating a placethat we can really just share
information.
So let's talk about why we'redoing this a little bit more and
really what inspired the ideafor the LARA Living Room.
Director Marlon Bro (06:03):
Definitely.
Well, I'll point to twodifferent ideas.
The first is last year we werekind of traveling around the
state talking to staff indifferent regions.
And one of the pieces offeedback that we received is
from our staff that work out inthe community and they're
inspecting different facilitiesaround the state.
And so they asked whether ornot we had thought about
(06:25):
engaging in any sort of podcastso that people in the department
can hear about what's going onwhile they're driving from one
location to another.
And so we took that idea toheart and really kind of kicked
the tires on it and said, hey,what would it look like if we
put together a Lara podcast?
And as we thought about that,we kind of came at the second
reason why we should do this.
(06:45):
And that is because within ourstrategic goals, we have have
the perspective of educatingbefore we regulate.
And so it became not justsomething for our staff to learn
about the different types ofactivities we perform, but as a
way to engage with the publicand to really share what Laura
does and why it matters and whyit's important.
(07:06):
So we really view this as anoutreach tool so that people can
become more familiar with ourdepartment.
And in addition to seeingorange barrels, you'll know what
LARA does because you listen tothe LARA Living Room podcast.
Anastasha Osborne (07:18):
I love that.
That's just one of thosehighlights, right?
One of the perks, I guess, ofliving in Michigan is those
orange barrels.
Director Marlon Brown (07:26):
All the time.
Anastasha Osborne (07:29):
Well, you know, we've got so many amazing
people that are doing criticalwork.
This feels like a perfect wayto pull back the curtain a
little bit, so to speak.
So what do you hope thispodcast helps accomplish, as you
mentioned, for both our TeamLARA and for the public?
Director Marlon Brown (07:45):
Yeah, that's a really good question.
I like to Amazing.
Amazing.
about the podcast.
(08:20):
And so we want to give people asneak peek of what it's really
like to work in a regulatoryagency.
And I promise it's much moreexciting than it sounds.
Anastasha Osborne (08:31):
And if you come and work for Team LARA, you
get really cool swag.
Director Marlon Brown (08:35):
Really cool swag.
Anastasha Osborne (08:37):
We'll have to post something on social media.
We actually are both wearingpretty cool LARA swag right now
and drinking out of really coolLARA mugs.
And our mugs are sitting onsome LARA coasters.
So there you go.
I love that.
All right.
So let's kind of talk aboutwhat's to expect moving forward.
Let's give our listeners alittle sneak peek.
(08:58):
What kind of topics andstories, you know, can they look
forward to listening to ourpodcast?
Director Marlon Brown (09:02):
Yes.
In fact, I feel like this isthe question I should be asking
you as the host of our podcast.
But I know we've got a greatlineup of different episodes
that we'll be sharing with thepublic.
We'll be looking at how doesregulation actually work?
How do regulations get created?
What's the difference between arule that the department makes
and maybe a law that thelegislature passes.
(09:24):
We'll also be looking at thepeople behind the work that we
do.
So inside Team LARA, getting abetter understanding of who
these state employees are andwhat do they do and why is it
important to them and why theyfind fulfillment in their job.
We'll try to look at a day inthe life of the regulator.
This is something that we do atour leadership team meetings
(09:45):
throughout the year.
We'll bring in someone whoworks in the department and have
them showcase the work thatthey do.
And they're very proud of thework that they do for the people
of Michigan.
And so giving a platform forsome of our team members to
share what they do is key.
And then we'll hone in on someof the different types of
industries and licenses that weregulate and issue.
(10:07):
And so I know we're going tolook at how do you start a
business in Michigan and how doyou get that registered with
LARA.
I know we'll talk about thingslike fire safety, always a big,
important topic.
with us in some of the workthat we do in our public
outreach.
And then we'll look at theconstruction industry or look at
health facilities.
If you have a loved one in anursing home or in homes for the
(10:31):
aged or something like that,you probably want to know what
the state is doing to make surethat they are protected and well
cared for.
So we've got a lot of differenttopics.
I think our listeners willreally find them engaging and
thought provoking.
And you probably will walk awayfrom a conversation saying,
wow, I had no idea that LARA didthat or so much went into that
particular program.
Anastasha Osborne (10:51):
Absolutely.
Well, great.
Well, we do want to hear fromour listeners too.
So, you know, if you are partof Team Laura or, you know,
you're someone who interactswith one of our bureaus or
agencies, you know, send in somequestions, send in ideas,
feedback.
We'd love to hear it.
And you never know, you mightbe featured in a future episode.
So send them on over.
Director Marlon Brown (11:10):
The more, the merrier.
Anastasha Osborne (11:12):
Absolutely.
Well, Marlon, thank you forbeing here and for helping us
kind of kick things off.
Like I said, first episode ofthe new podcast, super exciting.
But before we go, I do justwant to ask one more question.
What excites you most aboutthis new podcast?
Director Marlon Brown (11:26):
Well, we've talked for many years
about how we tell the LARAstory.
And it's a certainly unique oneto tell.
We are probably the mostdiverse state department in the
state of Michigan.
We do so many different things.
And so this is a great way totell our story and to really
talk about why it's important,why it matters, how we make a
(11:47):
difference in the lives of everyMichigander.
We like to say that whetherit's from birth to death,
anywhere in between, LARA has avital role in ensuring that the
quality of life in Michigan isone that we can all be proud of
and one that we want our kids togrow up in.
And so telling that LARA storyis important.
(12:08):
But the other aspect that I'mreally excited about with the
podcast is that it gives us anopportunity to promote public
service.
And one of our core values atLARA is public service.
We take immense pride in whatwe do and knowing that it is for
a public purpose and it is forthe people of Michigan.
And so I think it will be agreat way to celebrate the value
(12:28):
that public service brings toour lives.
And who knows, we may inspiresome future generations to want
to go into government and workin a public sector career.
So hopefully we will promotethe value of public service and
be able to tell a little bitabout our story as we go through
the season.
Anastasha Osborne (12:46):
Yeah, I'm really excited.
We got a couple really goodthings lined up, so stay tuned
for that.
Director Marlon Brown (12:52):
I'll be listening as well.
Anastasha Osborne (12:54):
I know, I'd hate to hear my voice back, but
you know, I still got to listenin, you know.
Well, thank you for being ourfirst guest.
I really appreciate your time.
I know you're a busy man beingthe director and all.
Director Marlon Brown (13:04):
Oh, I had to make time in my schedule for
this.
This is really exciting.
Anastasha Osborne (13:09):
Yeah.
And thank you to everyone fortuning in.
We really appreciate it.
We hope you found somethingvaluable in this first episode.
So be sure to subscribe.
Join us in future episodesbecause, you know, we're just
getting started.
So I'll close out with from ourliving room to yours.
See you next time.
Unknown (13:26):
Music
Oh, Hi there.
Make yourself comfortable.
I am Anastasha Osborne,Assistant Deputy Director here
(00:22):
at the Michigan Department ofLicensing and Regulatory
Affairs and I am so happy to beyour host as we kick off this
brand new space to connect,share stories, and give you an
inside look at the people andpurpose behind LARA.
Now, I've been a part of TeamLARA for going on about eight
years, and I am so passionateabout the work that we do and
the impact that it has acrossMichigan.
So I'm hoping that through thispodcast, I can be your guide as
(00:44):
we meet the people who keepthings moving and then dive into
the different stories thatdon't always make headlines, but
they absolutely matter.
So the LARA Living Room isgoing to be your all access pass
to a department that helpsprotect people and promote
business through the state.
So whether you're a licensee,an industry partner, or part of
LARA, this podcast is perfectfor you.
We're going to explore thework, the why and the people
(01:08):
behind the policies that reallyshape Michigan's future.
And what better way to startthat than with our very first
guest, Dr.
Marlon Brown.
He is the director of LARA anda member of Governor Gretchen
Whitmer's cabinet.
So Dr.
Brown leads the department thatoversees nearly 2 million
licensed individuals andbusinesses across dozens of
industries.
He's held leadership roles atthe Michigan Supreme Court, the
(01:32):
Michigan Department ofTransportation, and the State
Budget Office.
And listen, his academicbackground is just as
impressive.
He holds a bachelor's degree inpolitical science from American
University, a master's inpublic administration from the
University of Delaware and adoctorate in public
administration from ValdostaState University.
Wow, incredible.
So simply put, Dr.
(01:53):
Brown really brings a deepunderstanding of how government
works.
And today he's going to helpkick things off with the Laura
Living Room with insight,experience, and again, a look at
what really drives the workthat we do.
So go ahead, fill up yourcoffee, grab a seat and get
comfortable because you are nowin the Laura Living Room.
All right.
Hello, Marlon.
(02:13):
How's it going today?
Director Marlon Brown (02:14):
I'm great, Anastasha.
How are you?
Anastasha Osborne (02:16):
I'm doing good.
Thank you.
Welcome to our first episode ofour new podcast.
Director Marlon Brown (02:19):
Thank you.
It's a pleasure to be here.
Anastasha Osborne (02:21):
Yeah, it's very exciting.
We got a couple of really goodquestions lined up here, so I'm
excited to kick things off.
Director Marlon Brown (02:26):
Looking forward to it.
Anastasha Osborne (02:28):
So before we really kind of jump into the
meat and potatoes, so to speak,of the podcast, I want to start
with a couple of the basics orappetizers, so to speak.
So LARA does so much for thestate of Michigan.
But for those who may notreally know the full scope, can
you give us just like a bigpicture view of what Laura does
and then, of course, why itmatters?
Director Marlon Brown (02:49):
Well, LARA is one of 18 principal
departments and agencies instate government.
A lot of people may be familiarwith getting their driver's
license from the Department ofState or seeing orange barrels
and knowing that that's theDepartment of Transportation.
Well, LARA is just as big inits scope and what it does.
We are responsible for most ofthe licensing and regulatory
(03:10):
actions of the state So we haveover 200 different license types
that we issue.
And we have about 2 millionlicensees when you look at both
individuals and entities.
And so that includes healthprofessionals, if you're a
nurse, a doctor, a physicianassistant, or even some of our
health facilities likehospitals, long-term care, and
(03:32):
homes for the aged.
We also have variousoccupations that are licensed
through our department.
So if you are a builder,accountant, a realtor.
If you work in the constructiontrades, a lot of skilled trades
professions are also regulatedby Laura.
If you're a plumber, if you'rean electrician, a lot of that is
impacted by the work that wedo.
(03:54):
Outside of that, if you have abusiness or a nonprofit in the
state, you're regulated byLaura.
And if you ever enjoy analcoholic beverage, the Liquor
Control Commission is part ofLaura.
We also regulate publicservices in this state, and we
even have our hands inindustries such as cannabis and
(04:14):
the indigent defense commissionso all of our state public
defender offices in the stateare part of team lara at the end
of the day we do a lot ofdifferent things but our work is
vital to enhancing the qualityof life in the state of michigan
and so we take great pride inthat
Anastasha Osborne (04:29):
That's incredible um you know hearing
that we do so much and we touchso many people here in Michigan.
Aside from the fact that we doso much, what is one part of
LARA that you really feel wouldsurprise people when they hear
about it?
Director Marlon Brown (04:42):
I love that question.
Whenever I go out and talkabout what we do, I usually end
with the fact that we have thestate's Unarmed Combat
Commission.
It always raises eyebrows and Iusually get a few people that
will ask, what is that?
So the Unarmed CombatCommission is the current
version of the Boxing Commissionthat was originally established
many years ago.
(05:02):
And so it regulates not onlythe sport of boxing, but any
other form of like kickboxing ormixed martial arts.
Mai Tai was just recentlyintroduced a couple years ago.
And so that's a really uniqueone out of everything that we
do.
Unarmed combat and theregulation of those types of
sports is something that isunique to a state government
(05:25):
agency.
Anastasha Osborne (05:26):
Yeah, no, that really is.
Have you ever made your way outto an event?
Director Marlon Brown (05:29):
I have not.
Still on the bucket list.
Anastasha Osborne (05:34):
Yeah, I've been to a couple of their their
board meetings or theircommission meetings, and they're
pretty interesting.
So I'll have to add that to ourlist.
Director Marlon Bro (05:41):
Definitely.
Anastasha Osborne (05:43):
All right.
Let's talk a little bit aboutwhy we launched this podcast.
You know, as I mentioned, kindof in our intro a little bit, we
kind of have this idea, right,of why we want to start this
podcast and creating a placethat we can really just share
information.
So let's talk about why we'redoing this a little bit more and
really what inspired the ideafor the LARA Living Room.
Director Marlon Bro (06:03):
Definitely.
Well, I'll point to twodifferent ideas.
The first is last year we werekind of traveling around the
state talking to staff indifferent regions.
And one of the pieces offeedback that we received is
from our staff that work out inthe community and they're
inspecting different facilitiesaround the state.
And so they asked whether ornot we had thought about
(06:25):
engaging in any sort of podcastso that people in the department
can hear about what's going onwhile they're driving from one
location to another.
And so we took that idea toheart and really kind of kicked
the tires on it and said, hey,what would it look like if we
put together a Lara podcast?
And as we thought about that,we kind of came at the second
reason why we should do this.
(06:45):
And that is because within ourstrategic goals, we have have
the perspective of educatingbefore we regulate.
And so it became not justsomething for our staff to learn
about the different types ofactivities we perform, but as a
way to engage with the publicand to really share what Laura
does and why it matters and whyit's important.
(07:06):
So we really view this as anoutreach tool so that people can
become more familiar with ourdepartment.
And in addition to seeingorange barrels, you'll know what
LARA does because you listen tothe LARA Living Room podcast.
Anastasha Osborne (07:18):
I love that.
That's just one of thosehighlights, right?
One of the perks, I guess, ofliving in Michigan is those
orange barrels.
Director Marlon Brown (07:26):
All the time.
Anastasha Osborne (07:29):
Well, you know, we've got so many amazing
people that are doing criticalwork.
This feels like a perfect wayto pull back the curtain a
little bit, so to speak.
So what do you hope thispodcast helps accomplish, as you
mentioned, for both our TeamLARA and for the public?
Director Marlon Brown (07:45):
Yeah, that's a really good question.
I like to Amazing.
Amazing.
about the podcast.
(08:20):
And so we want to give people asneak peek of what it's really
like to work in a regulatoryagency.
And I promise it's much moreexciting than it sounds.
Anastasha Osborne (08:31):
And if you come and work for Team LARA, you
get really cool swag.
Director Marlon Brown (08:35):
Really cool swag.
Anastasha Osborne (08:37):
We'll have to post something on social media.
We actually are both wearingpretty cool LARA swag right now
and drinking out of really coolLARA mugs.
And our mugs are sitting onsome LARA coasters.
So there you go.
I love that.
All right.
So let's kind of talk aboutwhat's to expect moving forward.
Let's give our listeners alittle sneak peek.
(08:58):
What kind of topics andstories, you know, can they look
forward to listening to ourpodcast?
Director Marlon Brown (09:02):
Yes.
In fact, I feel like this isthe question I should be asking
you as the host of our podcast.
But I know we've got a greatlineup of different episodes
that we'll be sharing with thepublic.
We'll be looking at how doesregulation actually work?
How do regulations get created?
What's the difference between arule that the department makes
and maybe a law that thelegislature passes.
(09:24):
We'll also be looking at thepeople behind the work that we
do.
So inside Team LARA, getting abetter understanding of who
these state employees are andwhat do they do and why is it
important to them and why theyfind fulfillment in their job.
We'll try to look at a day inthe life of the regulator.
This is something that we do atour leadership team meetings
(09:45):
throughout the year.
We'll bring in someone whoworks in the department and have
them showcase the work thatthey do.
And they're very proud of thework that they do for the people
of Michigan.
And so giving a platform forsome of our team members to
share what they do is key.
And then we'll hone in on someof the different types of
industries and licenses that weregulate and issue.
(10:07):
And so I know we're going tolook at how do you start a
business in Michigan and how doyou get that registered with
LARA.
I know we'll talk about thingslike fire safety, always a big,
important topic.
with us in some of the workthat we do in our public
outreach.
And then we'll look at theconstruction industry or look at
health facilities.
If you have a loved one in anursing home or in homes for the
(10:31):
aged or something like that,you probably want to know what
the state is doing to make surethat they are protected and well
cared for.
So we've got a lot of differenttopics.
I think our listeners willreally find them engaging and
thought provoking.
And you probably will walk awayfrom a conversation saying,
wow, I had no idea that LARA didthat or so much went into that
particular program.
Anastasha Osborne (10:51):
Absolutely.
Well, great.
Well, we do want to hear fromour listeners too.
So, you know, if you are partof Team Laura or, you know,
you're someone who interactswith one of our bureaus or
agencies, you know, send in somequestions, send in ideas,
feedback.
We'd love to hear it.
And you never know, you mightbe featured in a future episode.
So send them on over.
Director Marlon Brown (11:10):
The more, the merrier.
Anastasha Osborne (11:12):
Absolutely.
Well, Marlon, thank you forbeing here and for helping us
kind of kick things off.
Like I said, first episode ofthe new podcast, super exciting.
But before we go, I do justwant to ask one more question.
What excites you most aboutthis new podcast?
Director Marlon Brown (11:26):
Well, we've talked for many years
about how we tell the LARAstory.
And it's a certainly unique oneto tell.
We are probably the mostdiverse state department in the
state of Michigan.
We do so many different things.
And so this is a great way totell our story and to really
talk about why it's important,why it matters, how we make a
(11:47):
difference in the lives of everyMichigander.
We like to say that whetherit's from birth to death,
anywhere in between, LARA has avital role in ensuring that the
quality of life in Michigan isone that we can all be proud of
and one that we want our kids togrow up in.
And so telling that LARA storyis important.
(12:08):
But the other aspect that I'mreally excited about with the
podcast is that it gives us anopportunity to promote public
service.
And one of our core values atLARA is public service.
We take immense pride in whatwe do and knowing that it is for
a public purpose and it is forthe people of Michigan.
And so I think it will be agreat way to celebrate the value
(12:28):
that public service brings toour lives.
And who knows, we may inspiresome future generations to want
to go into government and workin a public sector career.
So hopefully we will promotethe value of public service and
be able to tell a little bitabout our story as we go through
the season.
Anastasha Osborne (12:46):
Yeah, I'm really excited.
We got a couple really goodthings lined up, so stay tuned
for that.
Director Marlon Brown (12:52):
I'll be listening as well.
Anastasha Osborne (12:54):
I know, I'd hate to hear my voice back, but
you know, I still got to listenin, you know.
Well, thank you for being ourfirst guest.
I really appreciate your time.
I know you're a busy man beingthe director and all.
Director Marlon Brown (13:04):
Oh, I had to make time in my schedule for
this.
This is really exciting.
Anastasha Osborne (13:09):
Yeah.
And thank you to everyone fortuning in.
We really appreciate it.
We hope you found somethingvaluable in this first episode.
So be sure to subscribe.
Join us in future episodesbecause, you know, we're just
getting started.
So I'll close out with from ourliving room to yours.
See you next time.
Unknown (13:26):
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