January 3, 2025 • 34 mins
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Comfort Kills Podcast Summary
In this episode of the Lead, Learn, Laugh, and Grow podcast, host Randy Gooch discusses the themes of restlessness, growth, and discomfort in leadership. Sharing his personal story, Randy reflects on a period of unease that led him to embrace the Law of the Lid and the motto 'comfort kills,' resulting in a transformative growth period for him and his team. He then introduces Dr. Jill Brown, an entrepreneurial educator and micro-school pioneer. Jill shares her journey from public education to co-founding the CALE School and CALE Education and Company, emphasizing the importance of stepping outside comfort zones, preparing for unseen opportunities, and supporting both students and educators in new and innovative ways. The conversation delves into building alternative educational models, supporting educational entrepreneurship, and the significant impact of creating personalized learning environments.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Randy (00:06):
Hello friends, I'm Randy Gooch.
Thank you for joining me on theLead, Learn, Laugh, and Grow
podcast.
I lead because everything risesand falls on leadership, and
it's too important not to lead.
I learn because I'm not thesmartest one in the room.
There something to learn inevery situation.
I laugh because it's goodmedicine.
(00:29):
It's cheaper than a therapist,and easier to swallow than
pills.
I grow because I can be betterthan I was yesterday.
So grow or die, I prefer togrow.
My guest today is Dr.
Jill Brown, an amazingentrepreneurial educator.
We're going to dive into thesubjects about restlessness,
(00:52):
growth, and embracing a bit ofdiscomfort.
Allow me to roll back thecalendar for a few years.
It was a major discomfort thatcompletely changed the way I led
and approached my work.
I was feeling uneasy, you knowthat feeling when something just
doesn't sit right and you can'tquite put your fingers on it.
(01:14):
I was restless and the questionsjust kept coming in my mind.
Was it the high turnover andinstability in my district
central office?
Was it that I was worried aboutmy kids and their choices?
Maybe.
Was it my team?
Was I doing enough for my team?
Were they struggling because ofme?
(01:35):
I felt like I was drowning inquestions and wasn't finding any
clear answers.
But here's the kicker, despitemy internal struggle, my team
was thriving.
In fact, they had recently beenrecognized nationally for
excellence in their developmentof project based learning in our
center.
We were comfortable soaking upthe glow of the award and the
(02:00):
accomplishment and therecognition.
But deep down, I knew wecouldn't rest there.
I wanted to help my team set newaspirational goals and to reach
even higher and do more thingsthat were great for students
future success.
I thought, how do I fix this?
(02:20):
How do I get us in the rightspace, the right mindset?
How do I coach them through?
How do I coach them up?
Finally, I pulled out JohnMaxwell's 21 Irrefutable Laws of
Leadership.
It didn't take more than 10pages to find clarity in the
form of Law of the Lid.
(02:41):
The idea that leadership abilityis the lid on a person's level
of effectiveness.
It wasn't my team that neededfixing and coaching up.
It was me.
If we, the team, were going tobreak through to a new level, I
first had to up my game and leadbetter.
(03:03):
Then I remembered something frommy time while I was stationed at
Fort Knox, Kentucky in the 80s.
The post commander was MajorGeneral Thomas Tate.
He had a motto, comfort kills.
It hit me like a gut punch, areminder of the hard truth that
rests in comfort kills growth,kills progress, and sometimes
(03:28):
can be life threatening.
That comfort kills phrase andthe law of the lid fired me up.
The six months that followed wasthe most productive growth, both
personally and professionally,that I've ever experienced.
I leaned forward in the foxhole,went on the attack, I got hyper
intentional about my growth, anddeeply committed to adding value
(03:52):
to others daily.
Thank you, John Maxwell, andthank you, General Tate, for the
truth and the wisdom I needed.
I needed that uncomfortablereality check, the kick in the
butt to drive me forward.
So if you're feeling restless,stuck, out of answers, reach out
to a coach, a mentor, a trustedfriend, a great book or a
(04:15):
podcast like this one.
They offer perspective andresources that can open doors
that you can't yet see.
Don't let comfortable situationshold you back from a better
future.
About a year after that growthperiod, an opportunity came my
way.
The chance to become ChiefOperations Officer of a large
(04:37):
district.
But, I knew that the intenseseason of preparation made me
ready for that leap.
I encourage you, start preparingnow for the opportunities you
can't see.
And remember as General Tate putit so well, comfort kills.
Step out of it, even just alittle.
(04:58):
You might be surprised by theincredible places it will take
you.
On a side note, I chose theMaxwell Certification, not the
doctorate, and have notregretted it since.
Now I want to bring our guestinto the conversation.
I'm thrilled to welcome Dr.
Jill Brown, an educationalentrepreneur.
Jill is no stranger to the powerof stepping outside comfort
(05:20):
zones.
She's here to share her storyand insights on navigating
discomfort to achieve growth andleverage opportunity.
So welcome Jill Brown Thank youfor joining me today, and I'm
gonna start with a few questionsand it's so good to see you
Jill (05:37):
great to see you
Randy (05:38):
so I have billed you as an Educational entrepreneur.
Jill (05:44):
Yep,
Randy (05:45):
and a micro school pioneer.
Jill (05:47):
Hey That sounds fancy, Randy Gooch.
Randy (05:50):
I'm just wanting to know, have I categorized you and
labeled you accurately?
Jill (05:54):
Yeah, I think I've been in this lane now for just a short
time, but edgepreneur is one,that's a word that they're using
a lot.
So people that have been ineducation for a long time but
have taken a little detour andshifted it just a little bit.
So I think you've nailed it.
Randy (06:09):
Alright.
I might
Jill (06:10):
steal that.
Alright
Randy (06:11):
Tell me about what you're currently building and creating.
And cause I know you've got acouple different avenues.
It's not just the actual school.
It's some other things.
Jill (06:19):
Yeah.
Randy (06:19):
Tell me about what's going on.
Jill (06:21):
Yes.
I can never sit still, myhusband says.
So once I get one thing going, Ijust find myself another project
that has tended to be areoccurring theme in my life.
We have two businesses.
So we have kale which is theschool.
So the CALE School, ColumbiaAcademy for Learning and
Enrichment is the actual name.
We knew when we named it, itwould probably go down to CALE
(06:42):
and it has.
So our CALE School has grown.
We opened in August of 2021.
And we have grown from 10students that first year to 90
this year, right now.
And we're on track to be atabout 100 for fall.
About 120 is about the ultimatenumber we're shooting for.
And we serve students age 4through 12th grade.
(07:05):
So we opened our high schoolthis year.
That has been a new addition tous, and we partnered with a
local college, Columbia College,and we have our students on
campus there.
So we have two campuses.
So I
Randy (07:15):
understand, am I correct, that when you started that, you
were trying to even connect thatto some career learning, real
world learning as well, is thatcorrect?
Jill (07:24):
The high school.
Yes.
The high school is definitelyunique.
So it lives between high virtualand in person.
So it's like a hybrid kind ofoption.
If you're a student who maybedoesn't want to sit in a
building all day, go from classto class, you might want to move
a little faster or perhaps wehave some kids who play sports
and need some extra time offbecause they travel.
Randy (07:46):
Sports that are connected, not directly to the
school, but probably traveling
Jill (07:50):
Gotcha.
We have some kids who work andneed a flexible schedule, and
again, they just don't want tosit in that building all day.
And they can do their classesonline, but they can also choose
to do classes in person if theywant to.
Yeah.
Our administrator who runs thatprogram builds the schedule one
on one with the student, andthey create exactly what they
want school to look like.
(08:11):
So they decide if they're goingto go be in class, they decide
if they're going to be on campusat Columbia College doing their
coursework online, and then healso works with them to get
internships or go to collegevisits or go to business visits.
Randy (08:26):
So is Columbia College designing that curriculum and
the academic curriculum or is itbeyond?
Jill (08:32):
That's a good question.
So right now the kids have twochoices.
So they're either a local publicschool student online, CPS
student online which allows themto still take all the courses
from the career center or playsports if they want to.
So they can still accesseverything and never have to go
into that large 2000 personbuilding if they don't want to.
So they can choose that routeand they get all of their
(08:54):
academics through that and theycan still do dual credit and
they want to take that.
Or if they are a student whodoesn't live in Columbia or
doesn't want to be a CPSstudent, then they can do
Missouri Connections Academy.
And so they're on one of thosetwo learning platforms.
Pretty cool.
Randy (09:11):
It is.
Before I ask you the real juicyquestions tell me a little bit
about the other path.
Jill (09:16):
The other path.
The second business that we haveis Kale Education and Company.
And that part of our business issupporting educators.
On the CALE side, we're living,breathing with students every
single day, doing the work.
I still teach full time.
Susan teaches full time.
We are in the trenches doing thework.
On the other side, we're stillhelping educators.
(09:38):
I said when I left my other jobto start something new, I said
I'm only going to do the thingsthat I love from this point
forward.
So I love working with kids andI love working with educators.
And so that side of the businesshas concentrated into three
different areas.
One, we support educators andany kind of educator.
So if you're a homeschoolingparent, if you're a micro
(09:59):
schooling founder, if you're apublic school, if you're a
private school, whatever you arewe have, Ways to support you on
that side.
So I wrote a book a few yearsago in 2019 my expertise and
passion lies in literacyteaching kids how to read
Helping teachers understand howto teach kids to read and so
(10:19):
I've turned that book into acourse in order to help
educators have better access tothat and so that course walks
them through how to take dataand Actionize their data and
then do something about it hookit to the intervention get the
results for the kids all aboutreading.
And so we have that.
Then we also have all of oureverything that we have
developed to start our school ison that website to help other
(10:42):
micro schools who get started orother private schools who get
started.
And then we also have ourtutoring center, which we help
kids that don't come to ourschool, but still need
additional support and reading.
And then we also host a nationalconference each year.
In the same lines of thatliteracy passion.
Dr.
Erica Lemke out of theUniversity of Missouri and I
started a conference this willbe our third year and it's
(11:04):
called the Show Me Science ofReading Conference.
So each year we have inwonderful national Speakers and
experts and then we host somereally great breakout sessions.
And we have roughly 500educators from around the U.
S.
and Canada who join us eachyear.
Randy (11:20):
Is just first hearing about this how do they find out
a little bit more and how couldthey register for that?
Jill (11:26):
So that will open on January 6th.
It sells out pretty fast, so itis on www.
CALEEDCO.Com.
C-A-L-E-E-D-C O.com.
And you'll find the registrationfor that.
You'll find all the courseonline course, all those kinds
of things will be on the CALEEducation and company website.
And then if you're just curiousabout the school that is
(11:47):
www.COMOCALE.Com.
C-O-M-O-C-A-L-E.
Randy (11:50):
Excellent.
And I'll make sure we get thoselinks in the notes for this.
Jill (11:54):
To help.
Randy (11:55):
What were you doing exactly prior to this and how
and why did you make that move?
Jill (12:03):
My path is probably A little different, which spurred
my love for entrepreneurship.
I was in public education forjust over 20 years.
So this is my 25th year doingsomething professionally.
Just over 20 of those I spent inpublic education with the
exception of two or three yearsthat I spent at Edward Jones.
(12:25):
At that time when I broke offfor just a minute, I trained
brokers, and it was a fantasticjob, early 20s, learned so much,
so thankful for the time thereand learning about finance and
how to do all that kind ofimportant life work if you will,
and so I got a taste of itthere, loved it.
As I was finishing my PhD, Ialso was independent for a time
(12:49):
doing consulting before I gotinto administration.
And so I had owned my ownbusiness there for a small stint
while I was consulting.
And I really loved it.
Then I went into 10 years ofadministration work where I was
a principal and an assistantsuperintendent.
When I left the assistantsuperintendent position after,
the pandemic.
(13:10):
I was definitely ready to dosomething different.
I had said to you recently Iwanted to leave and just do the
things that I wanted to do andleave behind all the things I
never ever wanted to do again.
And so that's how I've built thelast three years of my life.
I wanted to do education.
I wanted to help kids.
I wanted to help teachers, but Idid not want to spend my day
(13:32):
doing paperwork or withattorneys or all the other
things that come with being indistricts.
Randy (13:39):
Sure.
Jill (13:39):
Yeah.
Randy (13:40):
Absolutely.
And so this is themed comfortkills.
Talk a little bit about what itwas like leaving that because
were all well paid in thosepositions.
It was a great job we worked ina district that had a certain
level of esteem.
Good things were happening.
Jill (13:53):
Yeah
Randy (13:54):
So but that stepping out what was that getting out of a
comfort zone?
What was that like?
Jill (14:00):
Yeah, that's scary, right?
That's the reason people don'tdo new things is because it's
really hard to step out Anddecide to do something different
and my husband's a teacher mysalary was important and he was
incredibly supportive.
He knew that I was ready to dosomething different and was
really great about that, but I'malso a big planner.
So anyone who knows me knows IfI'm going to do something, I'm
(14:22):
going to have a plan behind it.
So I definitely, for a yearbefore I left, was thinking
about how to make that happen.
And financially you get yourselfinto a plan and you know what
that's gonna look like.
I believe that We have one lifeto live, and I think you have to
do that doing the things thatyou love.
And if you are in a position andyou think, I just want to make
(14:46):
the change, at some point youhave to decide to take the leap.
Because I can always go backinto education in public school
if I really needed to or wantedto but I wanted to try something
different and you just have todo it.
Randy (14:59):
So as people listen to this, hopefully there are a lot
of them, maybe not, I don'tknow, we hope so, but what do
you say to those?
I think a lot of times.
There aren't a lot of peoplethat are entrepreneurial that
are attracted to education.
Yeah, but they're sitting thereand they may be having some of
those same feelings wantingsomething different, but maybe
(15:21):
not have that background you didWhat's some encouragement you
could give maybe somebody that'ssitting in that spot?
Jill (15:27):
Yeah,
Randy (15:28):
knowing they want to do something different.
Jill (15:30):
I think you have to be willing to talk to people, when
susan and I decided to do thisWe wanted to take everything
that we knew worked really well,leave behind the things that
didn't, and create this new kindof educational environment that
we'd always hoped to have.
And we did that, but then welearned that there's this whole
micro schooling world out therethat is actually 2 percent of
(15:53):
the population, which isequivalent to the Catholic
school population.
There are about a millionstudents doing some kind of
schooling like we're doing.
And once we found that group itfelt better.
You think, oh, like I'm learningso much more about other facets
of education.
But I also think that, we'reseeing a huge decline in
(16:15):
teachers leaving.
The field right?
And that is a real crisis thatneeds to be discussed because
they're not readily availablethere.
We're not graduating hundreds ofteachers out.
And I think there's a lot ofreasons for that.
But I'm not sure these youngpeople go into a career now
thinking I'm going to go into abuilding and be there for 30
years and teach third grade andthen retire.
(16:36):
I just, I don't think that's thecurrent reality of what's
happening.
If we had some tracks ofentrepreneur study, that might
bring some of these young peopleback into our field.
I think there are lots of peoplewho want to work with kids.
I don't think there are lots ofpeople who want to work in the
current system.
Randy (16:55):
Wow, now you've turned my brain on,
Jill (16:57):
yeah,
Randy (16:58):
entrepreneur track even at a, maybe a college level, And
so maybe that's your thirdproject, and maybe you and I can
work on that,
Jill (17:07):
Because I have talked a lot about it.
And I think there's reallysomething there, and I think it
would attract people in.
Because there are a lot ofpeople doing what we're doing.
And it started far before thepandemic.
But during the pandemic, a lotof learning pods and things like
that popped up.
And I think teachers learnedlike, oh, wait, I can do exactly
(17:28):
what I love.
And I don't have to do it withinthe system that I'm not any more
crazy about, and I think there'sa whole field out there doing
this.
And there's a lot of veryesteemed universities studying
it.
That is a definite interest forme.
And that's why part of ourcompany on the other side is
really working to support thesepeople who want to do it.
Want to jump and take the lead.
Randy (17:48):
Absolutely.
So as I hear you talking aboutyour preparation be very careful
before you just run fromsomething.
But that you leap to somethingbetter.
There's a landing zone you'regoing.
Sounds like that was definitelypart of your planning.
And that might be part of whatis so scary for these young
(18:09):
people, not really understandinghow to set up some of those
positive things.
Jill (18:13):
Yes.
I think there definitely has tobe planning.
I knew that I was going to goback in and do consulting, so
that was part of what I wasgoing to do.
We knew we were going to openthe school.
We know that would take sometime.
We were doing tutoring.
It takes time though.
It does take time and we, therewas many months before we got
paid one dollar.
And I tell people early onsomeone made a comment that I
(18:35):
left because I was wanting tomake more money and I thought to
myself no I had a great salaryand great benefits and great
place to be.
That was not it at all.
I went from that salary to zerofor a very long time because my
passion and my drive and myvalues were steering me in a
different direction.
Randy (18:52):
But you understood up front that was going to be a
piece of the equation.
And then all of a sudden,
Jill (18:58):
The reality is you're starting a business.
It takes a lot of time.
And I think that's where kind ofthe Edward Jones piece of my
life was really helpful.
And owning my own business inbetween that was really helpful.
I had done a little bit of thatbefore.
And so that part wasn't scary tome.
But you never know.
Randy (19:15):
I think that's interesting because it just, And
maybe that's why we got alongfairly well because we had a
little bit of a professionallife in a different sector
before we came to this.
And I think it gave some clarityAnd just a broader perspective.
It's interesting that EdwardJones, my daughter just recently
become an Edward Jones advisor.
(19:37):
So I know that and that trainingprocess and what she went
through was so thorough.
So many accountabilities builtin, but just in the confidence
level that they have coming outof that, they know, but it's
hard and the amount of work.
And, maybe when we do this jointventure here, I love this idea.
Maybe we can borrow some of thatbecause they have an excellent
(20:00):
model for success.
They do.
The people that enter theirability to be successful is so
high when they exit that.
Jill (20:07):
Yeah.
They used to call it segments.
Segment one, segment two,segment three.
And I was a segment threetrainer.
And so they had to have hitprofitability level at a certain
amount before they went to ourtraining.
And I can remember being 23years old, sitting in there with
a bunch of men who werelistening to the second grade
teacher, teach them how to buildtheir business.
And so I learned how to hold myown real fast, but That job was
(20:29):
in so many ways valuable for meas a leader and as a person.
Randy (20:34):
Yeah.
Jill (20:34):
I
Randy (20:34):
look back on my leadership training and somebody
asked me what courses did youtake to help you as a leader?
And I said, I'll be honest withyou.
None of my educationalpreparation really prepped me to
be a leader.
Most of that came from themilitary.
Self study.
And, Observing good leaders andsaying, what are they doing?
(20:57):
Observing the not so good andsaying, man, I want to eliminate
that.
And just really looking at thosepeople that, that were being
successful.
And I think too, interestingly,the climate's changed a little
bit.
I start thinking about when Ientered the army, that culture's
changed immensely, and now it'svery much more culturally
sensitive.
(21:17):
But making those transitionstoo, but still the hard core
piece of Developing people
Jill (21:23):
right
Randy (21:24):
Although it was a very authoritarian Sure system
Jill (21:28):
Yeah,
Randy (21:28):
there was always some really key leaders that were
wanting good things for meprofessionally and personally
and Expectations.
Jill (21:36):
Yes, and
Randy (21:37):
the accountability was high and it was tough and
sometimes your feelings got hurtBut I think
Jill (21:44):
that's okay.
Yeah,
Randy (21:45):
What are you learning?
Jill (21:46):
Yeah.
I'm trying to expand my thinkingbecause we still have moments
where, we've been trained oneway for so long and in the
public sector to think about howschool looks and what schools
should look like to getourselves to think outside that
box has really taken a lot oftime.
And so I am part of the NationalMicroschooling Center.
(22:08):
I'm on some committees withthem.
And one of the committees thatI'm on is evaluation and
academic growth and how you'regoing to see that.
And so I take my lens of publiceducation into that group.
I get to hear from a lot ofother people who have done a lot
of other things for a lot ofyears and it's just helping me.
Assimilate that information intowhat I know and growing it into
(22:30):
something even bigger.
And so I think that I'm justtrying as quickly as I can to
learn what's happening in otherways to educate in the field.
At home and abroad across theworld these conversations are
happening.
And I'm trying to learn asquickly as I can other models
(22:52):
and other ways and how to bringthat into what we know and boost
our best practices.
Randy (22:58):
Are there any particular people that are just like these
key thought leaders that arejust like making your head
explode?
Jill (23:03):
Luca Perry.
Do you know that name?
Neither did I.
He's out of Australia and doesso much work with different
models of education across theworld.
He's very fascinating to me.
He has his own podcast as well.
And I was listening to one earlyon as Susan and I were trying to
figure out, where we fit in themodel of education.
(23:25):
And he had a guest on and hesaid, I have always been in
public education as well.
He said, and some of us aredeciding that we're ready to
work public adjacent.
And it's not that we don't lovepublic and believe in public and
want the best.
We do.
And we're going to continue tohelp our friends in this lane.
(23:47):
But we also know that not everykid is fitting in this.
We've known it for a long timeand it's okay to say it.
So we're just going to say we'reworking publicly adjacent while
also trying to help this systemover here that's not doing so
great because we can't root forit to fail.
You need all these differentchoices for kids it's okay to
(24:08):
say that it's okay to say thatnot all kids fit one mold and I
think we say it but we don't Andsometimes it can mean it's
outside our system.
And just learning about allthese different ways that kids
are being educated now has beenvery eye opening to me.
If I had a dollar for every timeas an administrator, I said, If
(24:29):
this kid just had a differentenvironment, they would be fine.
And now I get to live it, andnow I get to prove it.
100 percent we have had kids whocame in who were not, they
didn't have friends, they didn'twant to go in their building,
they weren't doing wellacademically, and they come here
and they're no longer anxious,and they're off medicines, and
(24:53):
they're doing their work, andthey're growing, and they just
needed a different environment.
It's not that we're magic, it'sjust a different environment.
Randy (25:00):
Sure I'm sure you've heard in, during this transition
and growing this, that maybe thequestion, what are you trying to
do?
You're trying to hurt public ed?
Jill (25:08):
I think that is, yep.
Randy (25:10):
But it sounds it's truly, many of your students might be
those that were not thriving inthe environment.
And couldn't find.
Find a group.
Jill (25:19):
They just need a different environment.
And my belief is that we couldall work together and probably
build even stronger fasterthere's politics and things
again in the way of that Butespecially with our high school
program, we're still very muchsupporting our public system.
We're just offering a differentalternative to allow kids to
stay in that system and do well.
Randy (25:41):
I like that term you're talking about,
Jill (25:43):
it's adjacent.
Randy (25:43):
Because it's not competitive.
It's running along the side.
Yes.
And what you've described forthat high school level is those
paths are intertwining.
Jill (25:52):
I think that now we've been doing it long enough that
we can prove that it's a goodworking model.
And so we'd love to see itcontinue to grow.
Randy (25:59):
Exciting stuff to hear.
I know when I worked with youand I think probably you
remember when you worked withme.
Jill (26:06):
Yes.
Randy (26:06):
I think laughter is pretty important.
Jill (26:08):
Important.
Randy (26:09):
So what role does that humor and a lightheartedness
bring into your leadership?
And tell us about a moment.
that was just funny, it was goodmedicine.
Jill (26:21):
I think we laugh all the time.
Randy (26:23):
I know your partner too.
Jill (26:25):
It, yeah, that we don't go a day without laughing at each
other.
We want teachers to be happy intheir environment, and we have
the most amazing staff, but Ithink the difference, the
pressure is often a smallerenvironment, and so we just have
a lot of fun.
So yes, laughter is important,and you have to find a way to
laugh at yourself, becausethere's still gonna be things
(26:45):
that make you really mad everyday.
There's still going to be kidsor kids, right?
Kids are, it doesn't matterwhere they are.
Kids are kids.
And adults are adults.
So there are still going to bethings that come up that you're
just like beating your headagainst the wall about.
So that happens.
The grass is the same color.
It's just a different field.
(27:06):
Laughing is important, and I wastrying to think of one funny
story that really happened butthey happen every single day.
I don't know that I have a funnymoment, but I will say that if
you don't find yourself laughingin a job, That is a problem.
And you either haven't found theright people to talk with at
your job, or you're not in theright job.
(27:26):
One of those two things isprobably happening.
Because, life is short.
No one really knows all the insand outs.
Everyone has their own thingthat they're doing.
Everyone's on their own road.
We're all managing our own timeevery single day and the biggest
crisis at your job that day,probably no one knows anything
about, but you feel like theentire world knows about it,
(27:47):
right?
And getting out of thatenvironment and going into a
different one, I think that wasvery true and I wish that my
previous self had known thatbetter.
I think I had a lot of stressupon myself in my former job, we
all on our team were very muchperfectionistic kind of people
and so we wanted everything togo right all of the time.
(28:09):
One of the biggest lessons Ithink I've learned since I've
left is that it's okay to not beperfect all the time.
You just have to do the job,love the people, love what
you're doing, and fix things asthey go.
Randy (28:21):
It's interesting because I've been thinking a lot about
early on Some of that leadershipreading and training that I did.
And back in the eighties, I readthe, in search of excellence by
Tom Peters.
And that was different becauseit was making a distinction
between perfect and excellenceand there's a huge difference
there And obviously the workyou're doing here.
(28:43):
You all are shooting for a levelof excellence We are high
standards and
Jill (28:46):
absolutely
Randy (28:47):
I think particularly sometimes young emerging leaders
really get strapped with that.
but I think too as more and morewomen are coming into leadership
roles, there's seems to be ahigher level of self imposed
pressure that I can't make amistake because I've worked so
hard to get here and I can't letthem see me make a mistake.
(29:09):
Correct.
Jill (29:10):
And I say that with the privilege of having lived a 25
year career.
I've done a lot of things, andso it's probably a little easier
to say that than as somebodystarting out.
But You're going to makemistakes.
That just is going to happen.
And I think that we put a lot ofpressure on ourselves to be
perfect.
And that stress is not good.
(29:31):
It's not good for anybody.
And so laughing, having theright group of people, knowing
that you're doing the very bestthat you can do every single day
and that it's actually stillgoing to be there the next day
to keep going.
You don't have to answer thattext at midnight.
Susan taught me that.
I answered texts 24 hours a day,in her former job and she said,
you don't really have to dothat.
You can stop doing that.
(29:52):
And that's a lesson learned.
Randy (29:54):
Last year I stopped doing that.
Jill (29:56):
You have to.
Randy (29:56):
Was some freedom in that.
Jill (29:57):
There is some freedom in that and we're all human, right?
Yeah.
So lots of great lessonslearned, I think, over my
career.
Randy (30:05):
What are three things a young, emerging leader needs to
know to be successful?
Whether it's finance, whetherit's education from your lived
25 years in the world of work.
What are three things that arejust, you think are very
important for a young leader?
Jill (30:23):
Being willing to learn and watch others.
I think it's huge.
You mentioned it before, and Iremember doing that along the
way and I still do it.
You want to take the best pieceof everybody and kind of mold it
together and Make it who youare.
And so I think, watching forthose traits that you really see
as a reason those people aresuccessful.
Whether that is a socialconnection that people have with
(30:45):
each other.
Whether it's a leadership style.
Whether it's a communicationstyle.
Just watch what you think is Itworks for them and then think
how do I do that same thing andis there something I can learn
from that?
I think that's a great way togrow as a person.
I think understanding thefinancial world is huge.
I think especially teachersthere's a lot of Teachers who
(31:08):
believe that they have to get inand retire out of a system or
they're not going to be okay.
That's not really true, butwe're taught that.
And I think having the knowledgeof how to make money work for
you early on.
It's a really powerful lesson.
Randy (31:25):
Money sense.
Jill (31:26):
You have to know how to do that.
And for anyone who's listening,if you're in your twenties,
please if, you never think youhave enough money.
It doesn't matter if you're 20or 40 or 60, you never have
enough.
But putting some money away intoan investment and retirement
kinds of things is a reallypowerful idea that will give you
freedom later on.
(31:46):
And I have my own childreninvesting in a Roth right now.
We don't talk about it enoughand giving you financial freedom
later on.
Randy (31:54):
I don't want to interrupt you on your third point, but
really what we're talking aboutis that law of compounding.
Jill (32:00):
Yes.
Randy (32:00):
And I would just say to young leaders
Jill (32:03):
you
Randy (32:03):
Bring out some good thinking points for me,
Compounding those goodleadership habits every day.
Leaders are not made in a day.
Jill (32:12):
No,
Randy (32:12):
they're made in small increments over time
consistently
Jill (32:18):
yes
Randy (32:18):
That's why when you're now talking at 20 years into a
career you have a much differentperspective.
Jill (32:24):
Very But for those that aren't there, it's about
compounding.
You're making those investmentsin people.
You're making those investmentsin your own training, your own
growth.
And that level of compoundingthen pays off as you get down
that road.
That's a great parallel.
The third is something I alwayssay and I will continue to say
(32:45):
and I've believed it and havelived it since my 20s.
Take chances.
Take chances and say yes tothings.
Opportunities will come to you.
Don't say no to opportunities.
Take the chance.
Everything I have done where Isaid, I'm just gonna do it, has
turned out to be really great.
Don't let yourself get toobogged down in should I or
shouldn't I.
(33:06):
If the opportunity comes, gothrough the window.
Randy (33:08):
I've always told people usually younger leaders the time
for preparation for anopportunity is not when it
presents itself.
It's previous.
You've got to work hard whenyou're not knowing where it's
going.
Jill (33:20):
Yep.
Randy (33:20):
But then when that opportunity knocks.
Jill (33:23):
Say yes.
Randy (33:23):
Yeah.
Jill (33:24):
Yeah.
You have to be willing to do it.
I never, ever would have workedat Edward Jones as a financial
broker.
Never in my life.
The opportunity came to me, Idid it, and it was one of the
best decisions I ever made.
Randy (33:35):
Jill, it's been great talking with you about what
you're doing.
Yeah, it's been fun.
Great just to be with you again,and you've always been a great
thinker, and Hard worker.
And thank you so much forcontributing early on in this.
We'll see where this podcastgoes.
Jill (33:51):
We will.
We've already got a plan for afuture.
Randy (33:53):
Thank you for joining me today.
Hey friends.
Thank you so much for joining meon this very first broadcast of
lead.
Learn, laugh, and grow.
It's been exciting for me.
I hope you've enjoyed it.
And join me back in two weeksfor another episode.
Hello friends, I'm Randy Gooch.
Thank you for joining me on theLead, Learn, Laugh, and Grow
podcast.
I lead because everything risesand falls on leadership, and
it's too important not to lead.
I learn because I'm not thesmartest one in the room.
There something to learn inevery situation.
I laugh because it's goodmedicine.
(00:29):
It's cheaper than a therapist,and easier to swallow than
pills.
I grow because I can be betterthan I was yesterday.
So grow or die, I prefer togrow.
My guest today is Dr.
Jill Brown, an amazingentrepreneurial educator.
We're going to dive into thesubjects about restlessness,
(00:52):
growth, and embracing a bit ofdiscomfort.
Allow me to roll back thecalendar for a few years.
It was a major discomfort thatcompletely changed the way I led
and approached my work.
I was feeling uneasy, you knowthat feeling when something just
doesn't sit right and you can'tquite put your fingers on it.
(01:14):
I was restless and the questionsjust kept coming in my mind.
Was it the high turnover andinstability in my district
central office?
Was it that I was worried aboutmy kids and their choices?
Maybe.
Was it my team?
Was I doing enough for my team?
Were they struggling because ofme?
(01:35):
I felt like I was drowning inquestions and wasn't finding any
clear answers.
But here's the kicker, despitemy internal struggle, my team
was thriving.
In fact, they had recently beenrecognized nationally for
excellence in their developmentof project based learning in our
center.
We were comfortable soaking upthe glow of the award and the
(02:00):
accomplishment and therecognition.
But deep down, I knew wecouldn't rest there.
I wanted to help my team set newaspirational goals and to reach
even higher and do more thingsthat were great for students
future success.
I thought, how do I fix this?
(02:20):
How do I get us in the rightspace, the right mindset?
How do I coach them through?
How do I coach them up?
Finally, I pulled out JohnMaxwell's 21 Irrefutable Laws of
Leadership.
It didn't take more than 10pages to find clarity in the
form of Law of the Lid.
(02:41):
The idea that leadership abilityis the lid on a person's level
of effectiveness.
It wasn't my team that neededfixing and coaching up.
It was me.
If we, the team, were going tobreak through to a new level, I
first had to up my game and leadbetter.
(03:03):
Then I remembered something frommy time while I was stationed at
Fort Knox, Kentucky in the 80s.
The post commander was MajorGeneral Thomas Tate.
He had a motto, comfort kills.
It hit me like a gut punch, areminder of the hard truth that
rests in comfort kills growth,kills progress, and sometimes
(03:28):
can be life threatening.
That comfort kills phrase andthe law of the lid fired me up.
The six months that followed wasthe most productive growth, both
personally and professionally,that I've ever experienced.
I leaned forward in the foxhole,went on the attack, I got hyper
intentional about my growth, anddeeply committed to adding value
(03:52):
to others daily.
Thank you, John Maxwell, andthank you, General Tate, for the
truth and the wisdom I needed.
I needed that uncomfortablereality check, the kick in the
butt to drive me forward.
So if you're feeling restless,stuck, out of answers, reach out
to a coach, a mentor, a trustedfriend, a great book or a
(04:15):
podcast like this one.
They offer perspective andresources that can open doors
that you can't yet see.
Don't let comfortable situationshold you back from a better
future.
About a year after that growthperiod, an opportunity came my
way.
The chance to become ChiefOperations Officer of a large
(04:37):
district.
But, I knew that the intenseseason of preparation made me
ready for that leap.
I encourage you, start preparingnow for the opportunities you
can't see.
And remember as General Tate putit so well, comfort kills.
Step out of it, even just alittle.
(04:58):
You might be surprised by theincredible places it will take
you.
On a side note, I chose theMaxwell Certification, not the
doctorate, and have notregretted it since.
Now I want to bring our guestinto the conversation.
I'm thrilled to welcome Dr.
Jill Brown, an educationalentrepreneur.
Jill is no stranger to the powerof stepping outside comfort
(05:20):
zones.
She's here to share her storyand insights on navigating
discomfort to achieve growth andleverage opportunity.
So welcome Jill Brown Thank youfor joining me today, and I'm
gonna start with a few questionsand it's so good to see you
Jill (05:37):
great to see you
Randy (05:38):
so I have billed you as an Educational entrepreneur.
Jill (05:44):
Yep,
Randy (05:45):
and a micro school pioneer.
Jill (05:47):
Hey That sounds fancy, Randy Gooch.
Randy (05:50):
I'm just wanting to know, have I categorized you and
labeled you accurately?
Jill (05:54):
Yeah, I think I've been in this lane now for just a short
time, but edgepreneur is one,that's a word that they're using
a lot.
So people that have been ineducation for a long time but
have taken a little detour andshifted it just a little bit.
So I think you've nailed it.
Randy (06:09):
Alright.
I might
Jill (06:10):
steal that.
Alright
Randy (06:11):
Tell me about what you're currently building and creating.
And cause I know you've got acouple different avenues.
It's not just the actual school.
It's some other things.
Jill (06:19):
Yeah.
Randy (06:19):
Tell me about what's going on.
Jill (06:21):
Yes.
I can never sit still, myhusband says.
So once I get one thing going, Ijust find myself another project
that has tended to be areoccurring theme in my life.
We have two businesses.
So we have kale which is theschool.
So the CALE School, ColumbiaAcademy for Learning and
Enrichment is the actual name.
We knew when we named it, itwould probably go down to CALE
(06:42):
and it has.
So our CALE School has grown.
We opened in August of 2021.
And we have grown from 10students that first year to 90
this year, right now.
And we're on track to be atabout 100 for fall.
About 120 is about the ultimatenumber we're shooting for.
And we serve students age 4through 12th grade.
(07:05):
So we opened our high schoolthis year.
That has been a new addition tous, and we partnered with a
local college, Columbia College,and we have our students on
campus there.
So we have two campuses.
So I
Randy (07:15):
understand, am I correct, that when you started that, you
were trying to even connect thatto some career learning, real
world learning as well, is thatcorrect?
Jill (07:24):
The high school.
Yes.
The high school is definitelyunique.
So it lives between high virtualand in person.
So it's like a hybrid kind ofoption.
If you're a student who maybedoesn't want to sit in a
building all day, go from classto class, you might want to move
a little faster or perhaps wehave some kids who play sports
and need some extra time offbecause they travel.
Randy (07:46):
Sports that are connected, not directly to the
school, but probably traveling
Jill (07:50):
Gotcha.
We have some kids who work andneed a flexible schedule, and
again, they just don't want tosit in that building all day.
And they can do their classesonline, but they can also choose
to do classes in person if theywant to.
Yeah.
Our administrator who runs thatprogram builds the schedule one
on one with the student, andthey create exactly what they
want school to look like.
(08:11):
So they decide if they're goingto go be in class, they decide
if they're going to be on campusat Columbia College doing their
coursework online, and then healso works with them to get
internships or go to collegevisits or go to business visits.
Randy (08:26):
So is Columbia College designing that curriculum and
the academic curriculum or is itbeyond?
Jill (08:32):
That's a good question.
So right now the kids have twochoices.
So they're either a local publicschool student online, CPS
student online which allows themto still take all the courses
from the career center or playsports if they want to.
So they can still accesseverything and never have to go
into that large 2000 personbuilding if they don't want to.
So they can choose that routeand they get all of their
(08:54):
academics through that and theycan still do dual credit and
they want to take that.
Or if they are a student whodoesn't live in Columbia or
doesn't want to be a CPSstudent, then they can do
Missouri Connections Academy.
And so they're on one of thosetwo learning platforms.
Pretty cool.
Randy (09:11):
It is.
Before I ask you the real juicyquestions tell me a little bit
about the other path.
Jill (09:16):
The other path.
The second business that we haveis Kale Education and Company.
And that part of our business issupporting educators.
On the CALE side, we're living,breathing with students every
single day, doing the work.
I still teach full time.
Susan teaches full time.
We are in the trenches doing thework.
On the other side, we're stillhelping educators.
(09:38):
I said when I left my other jobto start something new, I said
I'm only going to do the thingsthat I love from this point
forward.
So I love working with kids andI love working with educators.
And so that side of the businesshas concentrated into three
different areas.
One, we support educators andany kind of educator.
So if you're a homeschoolingparent, if you're a micro
(09:59):
schooling founder, if you're apublic school, if you're a
private school, whatever you arewe have, Ways to support you on
that side.
So I wrote a book a few yearsago in 2019 my expertise and
passion lies in literacyteaching kids how to read
Helping teachers understand howto teach kids to read and so
(10:19):
I've turned that book into acourse in order to help
educators have better access tothat and so that course walks
them through how to take dataand Actionize their data and
then do something about it hookit to the intervention get the
results for the kids all aboutreading.
And so we have that.
Then we also have all of oureverything that we have
developed to start our school ison that website to help other
(10:42):
micro schools who get started orother private schools who get
started.
And then we also have ourtutoring center, which we help
kids that don't come to ourschool, but still need
additional support and reading.
And then we also host a nationalconference each year.
In the same lines of thatliteracy passion.
Dr.
Erica Lemke out of theUniversity of Missouri and I
started a conference this willbe our third year and it's
(11:04):
called the Show Me Science ofReading Conference.
So each year we have inwonderful national Speakers and
experts and then we host somereally great breakout sessions.
And we have roughly 500educators from around the U.
S.
and Canada who join us eachyear.
Randy (11:20):
Is just first hearing about this how do they find out
a little bit more and how couldthey register for that?
Jill (11:26):
So that will open on January 6th.
It sells out pretty fast, so itis on www.
CALEEDCO.Com.
C-A-L-E-E-D-C O.com.
And you'll find the registrationfor that.
You'll find all the courseonline course, all those kinds
of things will be on the CALEEducation and company website.
And then if you're just curiousabout the school that is
(11:47):
www.COMOCALE.Com.
C-O-M-O-C-A-L-E.
Randy (11:50):
Excellent.
And I'll make sure we get thoselinks in the notes for this.
Jill (11:54):
To help.
Randy (11:55):
What were you doing exactly prior to this and how
and why did you make that move?
Jill (12:03):
My path is probably A little different, which spurred
my love for entrepreneurship.
I was in public education forjust over 20 years.
So this is my 25th year doingsomething professionally.
Just over 20 of those I spent inpublic education with the
exception of two or three yearsthat I spent at Edward Jones.
(12:25):
At that time when I broke offfor just a minute, I trained
brokers, and it was a fantasticjob, early 20s, learned so much,
so thankful for the time thereand learning about finance and
how to do all that kind ofimportant life work if you will,
and so I got a taste of itthere, loved it.
As I was finishing my PhD, Ialso was independent for a time
(12:49):
doing consulting before I gotinto administration.
And so I had owned my ownbusiness there for a small stint
while I was consulting.
And I really loved it.
Then I went into 10 years ofadministration work where I was
a principal and an assistantsuperintendent.
When I left the assistantsuperintendent position after,
the pandemic.
(13:10):
I was definitely ready to dosomething different.
I had said to you recently Iwanted to leave and just do the
things that I wanted to do andleave behind all the things I
never ever wanted to do again.
And so that's how I've built thelast three years of my life.
I wanted to do education.
I wanted to help kids.
I wanted to help teachers, but Idid not want to spend my day
(13:32):
doing paperwork or withattorneys or all the other
things that come with being indistricts.
Randy (13:39):
Sure.
Jill (13:39):
Yeah.
Randy (13:40):
Absolutely.
And so this is themed comfortkills.
Talk a little bit about what itwas like leaving that because
were all well paid in thosepositions.
It was a great job we worked ina district that had a certain
level of esteem.
Good things were happening.
Jill (13:53):
Yeah
Randy (13:54):
So but that stepping out what was that getting out of a
comfort zone?
What was that like?
Jill (14:00):
Yeah, that's scary, right?
That's the reason people don'tdo new things is because it's
really hard to step out Anddecide to do something different
and my husband's a teacher mysalary was important and he was
incredibly supportive.
He knew that I was ready to dosomething different and was
really great about that, but I'malso a big planner.
So anyone who knows me knows IfI'm going to do something, I'm
(14:22):
going to have a plan behind it.
So I definitely, for a yearbefore I left, was thinking
about how to make that happen.
And financially you get yourselfinto a plan and you know what
that's gonna look like.
I believe that We have one lifeto live, and I think you have to
do that doing the things thatyou love.
And if you are in a position andyou think, I just want to make
(14:46):
the change, at some point youhave to decide to take the leap.
Because I can always go backinto education in public school
if I really needed to or wantedto but I wanted to try something
different and you just have todo it.
Randy (14:59):
So as people listen to this, hopefully there are a lot
of them, maybe not, I don'tknow, we hope so, but what do
you say to those?
I think a lot of times.
There aren't a lot of peoplethat are entrepreneurial that
are attracted to education.
Yeah, but they're sitting thereand they may be having some of
those same feelings wantingsomething different, but maybe
(15:21):
not have that background you didWhat's some encouragement you
could give maybe somebody that'ssitting in that spot?
Jill (15:27):
Yeah,
Randy (15:28):
knowing they want to do something different.
Jill (15:30):
I think you have to be willing to talk to people, when
susan and I decided to do thisWe wanted to take everything
that we knew worked really well,leave behind the things that
didn't, and create this new kindof educational environment that
we'd always hoped to have.
And we did that, but then welearned that there's this whole
micro schooling world out therethat is actually 2 percent of
(15:53):
the population, which isequivalent to the Catholic
school population.
There are about a millionstudents doing some kind of
schooling like we're doing.
And once we found that group itfelt better.
You think, oh, like I'm learningso much more about other facets
of education.
But I also think that, we'reseeing a huge decline in
(16:15):
teachers leaving.
The field right?
And that is a real crisis thatneeds to be discussed because
they're not readily availablethere.
We're not graduating hundreds ofteachers out.
And I think there's a lot ofreasons for that.
But I'm not sure these youngpeople go into a career now
thinking I'm going to go into abuilding and be there for 30
years and teach third grade andthen retire.
(16:36):
I just, I don't think that's thecurrent reality of what's
happening.
If we had some tracks ofentrepreneur study, that might
bring some of these young peopleback into our field.
I think there are lots of peoplewho want to work with kids.
I don't think there are lots ofpeople who want to work in the
current system.
Randy (16:55):
Wow, now you've turned my brain on,
Jill (16:57):
yeah,
Randy (16:58):
entrepreneur track even at a, maybe a college level, And
so maybe that's your thirdproject, and maybe you and I can
work on that,
Jill (17:07):
Because I have talked a lot about it.
And I think there's reallysomething there, and I think it
would attract people in.
Because there are a lot ofpeople doing what we're doing.
And it started far before thepandemic.
But during the pandemic, a lotof learning pods and things like
that popped up.
And I think teachers learnedlike, oh, wait, I can do exactly
(17:28):
what I love.
And I don't have to do it withinthe system that I'm not any more
crazy about, and I think there'sa whole field out there doing
this.
And there's a lot of veryesteemed universities studying
it.
That is a definite interest forme.
And that's why part of ourcompany on the other side is
really working to support thesepeople who want to do it.
Want to jump and take the lead.
Randy (17:48):
Absolutely.
So as I hear you talking aboutyour preparation be very careful
before you just run fromsomething.
But that you leap to somethingbetter.
There's a landing zone you'regoing.
Sounds like that was definitelypart of your planning.
And that might be part of whatis so scary for these young
(18:09):
people, not really understandinghow to set up some of those
positive things.
Jill (18:13):
Yes.
I think there definitely has tobe planning.
I knew that I was going to goback in and do consulting, so
that was part of what I wasgoing to do.
We knew we were going to openthe school.
We know that would take sometime.
We were doing tutoring.
It takes time though.
It does take time and we, therewas many months before we got
paid one dollar.
And I tell people early onsomeone made a comment that I
(18:35):
left because I was wanting tomake more money and I thought to
myself no I had a great salaryand great benefits and great
place to be.
That was not it at all.
I went from that salary to zerofor a very long time because my
passion and my drive and myvalues were steering me in a
different direction.
Randy (18:52):
But you understood up front that was going to be a
piece of the equation.
And then all of a sudden,
Jill (18:58):
The reality is you're starting a business.
It takes a lot of time.
And I think that's where kind ofthe Edward Jones piece of my
life was really helpful.
And owning my own business inbetween that was really helpful.
I had done a little bit of thatbefore.
And so that part wasn't scary tome.
But you never know.
Randy (19:15):
I think that's interesting because it just, And
maybe that's why we got alongfairly well because we had a
little bit of a professionallife in a different sector
before we came to this.
And I think it gave some clarityAnd just a broader perspective.
It's interesting that EdwardJones, my daughter just recently
become an Edward Jones advisor.
(19:37):
So I know that and that trainingprocess and what she went
through was so thorough.
So many accountabilities builtin, but just in the confidence
level that they have coming outof that, they know, but it's
hard and the amount of work.
And, maybe when we do this jointventure here, I love this idea.
Maybe we can borrow some of thatbecause they have an excellent
(20:00):
model for success.
They do.
The people that enter theirability to be successful is so
high when they exit that.
Jill (20:07):
Yeah.
They used to call it segments.
Segment one, segment two,segment three.
And I was a segment threetrainer.
And so they had to have hitprofitability level at a certain
amount before they went to ourtraining.
And I can remember being 23years old, sitting in there with
a bunch of men who werelistening to the second grade
teacher, teach them how to buildtheir business.
And so I learned how to hold myown real fast, but That job was
(20:29):
in so many ways valuable for meas a leader and as a person.
Randy (20:34):
Yeah.
Jill (20:34):
I
Randy (20:34):
look back on my leadership training and somebody
asked me what courses did youtake to help you as a leader?
And I said, I'll be honest withyou.
None of my educationalpreparation really prepped me to
be a leader.
Most of that came from themilitary.
Self study.
And, Observing good leaders andsaying, what are they doing?
(20:57):
Observing the not so good andsaying, man, I want to eliminate
that.
And just really looking at thosepeople that, that were being
successful.
And I think too, interestingly,the climate's changed a little
bit.
I start thinking about when Ientered the army, that culture's
changed immensely, and now it'svery much more culturally
sensitive.
(21:17):
But making those transitionstoo, but still the hard core
piece of Developing people
Jill (21:23):
right
Randy (21:24):
Although it was a very authoritarian Sure system
Jill (21:28):
Yeah,
Randy (21:28):
there was always some really key leaders that were
wanting good things for meprofessionally and personally
and Expectations.
Jill (21:36):
Yes, and
Randy (21:37):
the accountability was high and it was tough and
sometimes your feelings got hurtBut I think
Jill (21:44):
that's okay.
Yeah,
Randy (21:45):
What are you learning?
Jill (21:46):
Yeah.
I'm trying to expand my thinkingbecause we still have moments
where, we've been trained oneway for so long and in the
public sector to think about howschool looks and what schools
should look like to getourselves to think outside that
box has really taken a lot oftime.
And so I am part of the NationalMicroschooling Center.
(22:08):
I'm on some committees withthem.
And one of the committees thatI'm on is evaluation and
academic growth and how you'regoing to see that.
And so I take my lens of publiceducation into that group.
I get to hear from a lot ofother people who have done a lot
of other things for a lot ofyears and it's just helping me.
Assimilate that information intowhat I know and growing it into
(22:30):
something even bigger.
And so I think that I'm justtrying as quickly as I can to
learn what's happening in otherways to educate in the field.
At home and abroad across theworld these conversations are
happening.
And I'm trying to learn asquickly as I can other models
(22:52):
and other ways and how to bringthat into what we know and boost
our best practices.
Randy (22:58):
Are there any particular people that are just like these
key thought leaders that arejust like making your head
explode?
Jill (23:03):
Luca Perry.
Do you know that name?
Neither did I.
He's out of Australia and doesso much work with different
models of education across theworld.
He's very fascinating to me.
He has his own podcast as well.
And I was listening to one earlyon as Susan and I were trying to
figure out, where we fit in themodel of education.
(23:25):
And he had a guest on and hesaid, I have always been in
public education as well.
He said, and some of us aredeciding that we're ready to
work public adjacent.
And it's not that we don't lovepublic and believe in public and
want the best.
We do.
And we're going to continue tohelp our friends in this lane.
(23:47):
But we also know that not everykid is fitting in this.
We've known it for a long timeand it's okay to say it.
So we're just going to say we'reworking publicly adjacent while
also trying to help this systemover here that's not doing so
great because we can't root forit to fail.
You need all these differentchoices for kids it's okay to
(24:08):
say that it's okay to say thatnot all kids fit one mold and I
think we say it but we don't Andsometimes it can mean it's
outside our system.
And just learning about allthese different ways that kids
are being educated now has beenvery eye opening to me.
If I had a dollar for every timeas an administrator, I said, If
(24:29):
this kid just had a differentenvironment, they would be fine.
And now I get to live it, andnow I get to prove it.
100 percent we have had kids whocame in who were not, they
didn't have friends, they didn'twant to go in their building,
they weren't doing wellacademically, and they come here
and they're no longer anxious,and they're off medicines, and
(24:53):
they're doing their work, andthey're growing, and they just
needed a different environment.
It's not that we're magic, it'sjust a different environment.
Randy (25:00):
Sure I'm sure you've heard in, during this transition
and growing this, that maybe thequestion, what are you trying to
do?
You're trying to hurt public ed?
Jill (25:08):
I think that is, yep.
Randy (25:10):
But it sounds it's truly, many of your students might be
those that were not thriving inthe environment.
And couldn't find.
Find a group.
Jill (25:19):
They just need a different environment.
And my belief is that we couldall work together and probably
build even stronger fasterthere's politics and things
again in the way of that Butespecially with our high school
program, we're still very muchsupporting our public system.
We're just offering a differentalternative to allow kids to
stay in that system and do well.
Randy (25:41):
I like that term you're talking about,
Jill (25:43):
it's adjacent.
Randy (25:43):
Because it's not competitive.
It's running along the side.
Yes.
And what you've described forthat high school level is those
paths are intertwining.
Jill (25:52):
I think that now we've been doing it long enough that
we can prove that it's a goodworking model.
And so we'd love to see itcontinue to grow.
Randy (25:59):
Exciting stuff to hear.
I know when I worked with youand I think probably you
remember when you worked withme.
Jill (26:06):
Yes.
Randy (26:06):
I think laughter is pretty important.
Jill (26:08):
Important.
Randy (26:09):
So what role does that humor and a lightheartedness
bring into your leadership?
And tell us about a moment.
that was just funny, it was goodmedicine.
Jill (26:21):
I think we laugh all the time.
Randy (26:23):
I know your partner too.
Jill (26:25):
It, yeah, that we don't go a day without laughing at each
other.
We want teachers to be happy intheir environment, and we have
the most amazing staff, but Ithink the difference, the
pressure is often a smallerenvironment, and so we just have
a lot of fun.
So yes, laughter is important,and you have to find a way to
laugh at yourself, becausethere's still gonna be things
(26:45):
that make you really mad everyday.
There's still going to be kidsor kids, right?
Kids are, it doesn't matterwhere they are.
Kids are kids.
And adults are adults.
So there are still going to bethings that come up that you're
just like beating your headagainst the wall about.
So that happens.
The grass is the same color.
It's just a different field.
(27:06):
Laughing is important, and I wastrying to think of one funny
story that really happened butthey happen every single day.
I don't know that I have a funnymoment, but I will say that if
you don't find yourself laughingin a job, That is a problem.
And you either haven't found theright people to talk with at
your job, or you're not in theright job.
(27:26):
One of those two things isprobably happening.
Because, life is short.
No one really knows all the insand outs.
Everyone has their own thingthat they're doing.
Everyone's on their own road.
We're all managing our own timeevery single day and the biggest
crisis at your job that day,probably no one knows anything
about, but you feel like theentire world knows about it,
(27:47):
right?
And getting out of thatenvironment and going into a
different one, I think that wasvery true and I wish that my
previous self had known thatbetter.
I think I had a lot of stressupon myself in my former job, we
all on our team were very muchperfectionistic kind of people
and so we wanted everything togo right all of the time.
(28:09):
One of the biggest lessons Ithink I've learned since I've
left is that it's okay to not beperfect all the time.
You just have to do the job,love the people, love what
you're doing, and fix things asthey go.
Randy (28:21):
It's interesting because I've been thinking a lot about
early on Some of that leadershipreading and training that I did.
And back in the eighties, I readthe, in search of excellence by
Tom Peters.
And that was different becauseit was making a distinction
between perfect and excellenceand there's a huge difference
there And obviously the workyou're doing here.
(28:43):
You all are shooting for a levelof excellence We are high
standards and
Jill (28:46):
absolutely
Randy (28:47):
I think particularly sometimes young emerging leaders
really get strapped with that.
but I think too as more and morewomen are coming into leadership
roles, there's seems to be ahigher level of self imposed
pressure that I can't make amistake because I've worked so
hard to get here and I can't letthem see me make a mistake.
(29:09):
Correct.
Jill (29:10):
And I say that with the privilege of having lived a 25
year career.
I've done a lot of things, andso it's probably a little easier
to say that than as somebodystarting out.
But You're going to makemistakes.
That just is going to happen.
And I think that we put a lot ofpressure on ourselves to be
perfect.
And that stress is not good.
(29:31):
It's not good for anybody.
And so laughing, having theright group of people, knowing
that you're doing the very bestthat you can do every single day
and that it's actually stillgoing to be there the next day
to keep going.
You don't have to answer thattext at midnight.
Susan taught me that.
I answered texts 24 hours a day,in her former job and she said,
you don't really have to dothat.
You can stop doing that.
(29:52):
And that's a lesson learned.
Randy (29:54):
Last year I stopped doing that.
Jill (29:56):
You have to.
Randy (29:56):
Was some freedom in that.
Jill (29:57):
There is some freedom in that and we're all human, right?
Yeah.
So lots of great lessonslearned, I think, over my
career.
Randy (30:05):
What are three things a young, emerging leader needs to
know to be successful?
Whether it's finance, whetherit's education from your lived
25 years in the world of work.
What are three things that arejust, you think are very
important for a young leader?
Jill (30:23):
Being willing to learn and watch others.
I think it's huge.
You mentioned it before, and Iremember doing that along the
way and I still do it.
You want to take the best pieceof everybody and kind of mold it
together and Make it who youare.
And so I think, watching forthose traits that you really see
as a reason those people aresuccessful.
Whether that is a socialconnection that people have with
(30:45):
each other.
Whether it's a leadership style.
Whether it's a communicationstyle.
Just watch what you think is Itworks for them and then think
how do I do that same thing andis there something I can learn
from that?
I think that's a great way togrow as a person.
I think understanding thefinancial world is huge.
I think especially teachersthere's a lot of Teachers who
(31:08):
believe that they have to get inand retire out of a system or
they're not going to be okay.
That's not really true, butwe're taught that.
And I think having the knowledgeof how to make money work for
you early on.
It's a really powerful lesson.
Randy (31:25):
Money sense.
Jill (31:26):
You have to know how to do that.
And for anyone who's listening,if you're in your twenties,
please if, you never think youhave enough money.
It doesn't matter if you're 20or 40 or 60, you never have
enough.
But putting some money away intoan investment and retirement
kinds of things is a reallypowerful idea that will give you
freedom later on.
(31:46):
And I have my own childreninvesting in a Roth right now.
We don't talk about it enoughand giving you financial freedom
later on.
Randy (31:54):
I don't want to interrupt you on your third point, but
really what we're talking aboutis that law of compounding.
Jill (32:00):
Yes.
Randy (32:00):
And I would just say to young leaders
Jill (32:03):
you
Randy (32:03):
Bring out some good thinking points for me,
Compounding those goodleadership habits every day.
Leaders are not made in a day.
Jill (32:12):
No,
Randy (32:12):
they're made in small increments over time
consistently
Jill (32:18):
yes
Randy (32:18):
That's why when you're now talking at 20 years into a
career you have a much differentperspective.
Jill (32:24):
Very But for those that aren't there, it's about
compounding.
You're making those investmentsin people.
You're making those investmentsin your own training, your own
growth.
And that level of compoundingthen pays off as you get down
that road.
That's a great parallel.
The third is something I alwayssay and I will continue to say
(32:45):
and I've believed it and havelived it since my 20s.
Take chances.
Take chances and say yes tothings.
Opportunities will come to you.
Don't say no to opportunities.
Take the chance.
Everything I have done where Isaid, I'm just gonna do it, has
turned out to be really great.
Don't let yourself get toobogged down in should I or
shouldn't I.
(33:06):
If the opportunity comes, gothrough the window.
Randy (33:08):
I've always told people usually younger leaders the time
for preparation for anopportunity is not when it
presents itself.
It's previous.
You've got to work hard whenyou're not knowing where it's
going.
Jill (33:20):
Yep.
Randy (33:20):
But then when that opportunity knocks.
Jill (33:23):
Say yes.
Randy (33:23):
Yeah.
Jill (33:24):
Yeah.
You have to be willing to do it.
I never, ever would have workedat Edward Jones as a financial
broker.
Never in my life.
The opportunity came to me, Idid it, and it was one of the
best decisions I ever made.
Randy (33:35):
Jill, it's been great talking with you about what
you're doing.
Yeah, it's been fun.
Great just to be with you again,and you've always been a great
thinker, and Hard worker.
And thank you so much forcontributing early on in this.
We'll see where this podcastgoes.
Jill (33:51):
We will.
We've already got a plan for afuture.
Randy (33:53):
Thank you for joining me today.
Hey friends.
Thank you so much for joining meon this very first broadcast of
lead.
Learn, laugh, and grow.
It's been exciting for me.
I hope you've enjoyed it.
And join me back in two weeksfor another episode.
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