April 29, 2025 • 23 mins
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Join us for a compelling conversation with Dr. Scott Spurgeon on the Lead Learn Laugh Grow podcast! Discover how Dr. Spurgeon's innovative vision is empowering students and pioneering new partnerships in the semiconductor and healthcare industries. Learn about the role of self-reflection, technology, and faith in driving leadership success. Catch part one of this insightful series and explore how you can lead with purpose and impact. 🔍👩🏫 #CTE #LeadershipInsight #EducationalInnovation
More about Scott. CTE educational leader with 19+ years of senior district-level administration and 9 years of building leadership across diverse educational settings. Currently serving as Superintendent/CEO of WEST-MEC, a public CTE district in Arizona serving 45,000+ students across 12 districts. Previous leadership roles include superintendencies in Riverview Gardens (urban, 5,750 students), Belleville TWP (metropolitan, 5,000 students), and interim leadership of Rockwood School District (suburban, 22,700 students, Missouri's third-largest). Additional experience as Associate Superintendent, Assistant Superintendent for Curriculum and Instruction, and principal at all levels in districts ranging from 2,500 to 15,000 students. Demonstrated expertise spanning urban, suburban, and rural communities with proven results in student achievement and district improvement. Skilled independent educational consultant collaborating with districts to drive continuous improvement initiatives.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Nancy (00:00):
Welcome to Lead Learn Laugh.
Grow the podcast whereleadership insights meet
practical wisdom.
I'm Nancy, your productionassistant, and today marks the
beginning of an inspiringtwo-part series featuring Dr.
Scott Spurgeon, superintendentof West MEC In this
conversation, we explore thetransformative power of John
Maxwell's leadership principlesas Scott shares how the law of
the LID has shaped hisleadership growth, drawing from
(00:20):
his experience with theInternational Center for
Leadership.
Scott reveals howself-reflection drives
leadership performance and howinfluence not position creates
true leaders.
We'll discover how Scottbalances his demanding role
using technology like FaceTimeto maintain family connections
and how he leverages platformslike LinkedIn to showcase West's
incredible student successstories.
(00:41):
Scott also gives us a glimpseinto exciting future
partnerships with semiconductorand healthcare industries that
are expanding careeropportunities for Arizona
students.
Throughout our discussion,Scott shares personal insights
from his father's wisdom and howfaith grounds his leadership
journey.
Most importantly, you'll hearhis bold vision for West MEC
doubling in size while becominga national leader in career and
(01:02):
technical education excellence.
Whether you're an educator,business leader, or someone
passionate about developing thenext generation of talent, this
conversation offers valuablelessons on leading with purpose,
learning continuously, findingjoy in the journey and growing
both personally andprofessionally.
And now I'll hand it over toAlex to introduce our host.
Alex (01:22):
I'm Alex and I have the absolute pleasure of introducing
today's host, someone who hasspent his career leading,
inspiring, and developingothers.
He's a seasoned educationleader, consultant, speaker, and
executive coach with abackground that spans education,
business, and even themilitary.
As a former Chief operationsofficer of a major school
district, a career in technicaleducation innovator, and now the
(01:45):
creator of Results MatterLeader Development, he's been at
the forefront of leadership andinfluence for decades, but
that's not all.
He's also a John Maxwellcertified Executive Director, a
national keynote speaker, andthe driving force behind this
very podcast.
His passion helping you leadboldly, learn continuously,
laugh often, and growrelentlessly.
So without further ado, let'sdive into today's episode with
(02:06):
our host, Randy Gooch.
Randy (02:08):
Hey, I'm excited.
Today we have a gifted leaderto learn from, and that is Scott
Spurgeon.
He's not only gifted, but he isa visionary and we're gonna
dive right into some rapid firequestions.
What's the most influentialbook you've ever read that's
influenced your leadership?
Scott (02:26):
Randall I think probably I'm a big fan of John Maxwell
and I'd say probably the 21Irrefutable Laws of Leadership
has probably been the mostinfluential book I've probably
read as it relates to myleadership.
And I pay really closeattention to one law in
particular And the Law of Lidsimply says that the
organization can outgrow thecapacity of its leader.
And so it's my job to ensurethat I'm always on, on the go in
the know and great to move.
Randy (02:45):
Great.
that does my heart.
Good.
I too enjoy John Maxwell lotand it's interesting that you
pick that law of the lid becausethere've been a few times in my
leadership journey that I'vehad to say, Hey.
Is it my organization or is itme?
And a lot of times it came downto me and I had to do some
change on that.
That's very cool.
Scott (03:01):
Two things about that real quick as well is I did a
lot of leadership training whenI was with the International
Center for Leadership andEducation Bill Daggett Group out
of Albany, New York.
one of the lessons that Itaught is oftentimes we have to
look in the mirror and do acritical analysis to say, is it
I am I?
The reason why the organizationis either stopped or stalled or
not moving in the rightdirection or moving performance
in a certain way.
And it is just something youhave to ask yourself as a
leader.
Are you the one that's causingthis distraction to happen?
(03:23):
And then the second thingaround, leadership and Maxwell
does just a phenomenal job is itis not a long drawn out
conversation around leadership.
Leadership is influenced, stop.
That's what it is.
If you're not influencing, ifyou're not giving people the
opportunity to move theorganization forward, to grow in
capacity then leadership is notyour game.
Randy (03:37):
Absolutely.
and I've also worked toencourage others too, that hey,
it doesn't take this positionfor you to be a leader.
If you have influence andyou're influencing the situation
the day-to-day work meetingchallenges and having influence
in that.
You are a leader and a lot ofpeople sometimes they don't even
realize that.
And so when that light bulbcomes on, that influence is
leadership, I think that's avery powerful concept.
Scott (04:00):
Yeah, I think everything we do every day.
And what, whether it's at yourworkplace or in your family,
When people don't recognize thatthey can be very detrimental to
the organization unless theleader steps forward and helps
'em understand the impact thatperson may have.
Randy (04:10):
Tell me about one tool or technology that you couldn't
live without to do your job andlead the way you do.
Scott (04:17):
I love technology for technology is, it is what it is,
and it's great when it works.
But I'm a very family orientedperson and I'm a face-to-face
kind of guy.
I never wanna lose theopportunity to sit down with a
person and have a realconversation.
But I'd say the technology Ican't live without.
Being a family man is probablyFaceTime.
Being able to talk to mydaughter, my son, my
grandchildren, my families itbalances me.
It keeps me in a place.
'cause right now I'm in Arizonawith no family and the only
(04:38):
time I get a chance to visitwith them is over FaceTime.
And so there's lots of othertechnologies that are out there
to help us become more efficientin our job.
But the access to thattechnology and the use of that
technology is really what makesa difference and whether or not
it's successful for you or not.
Randy (04:50):
Sure.
I know from just knowing what Iknow about you, you're very
active on LinkedIn.
Tell me a little bit about how,why that platform is important
to you and some of its strengthsthat it has to help you as a
leader, and obviously helppromote what you're doing.
Scott (05:07):
Social media is a great opportunity to be able to share
information, stories, eventsthat others may not necessarily
be able to attend.
And so I think from a LinkedInperspective it's really focused
around business and industry andthe professional side of
employment.
And so I utilize that probablyfirst and foremost because
that's where most of my businessand industry, my leaders, my
cities, workforce development,the folks that are really
(05:27):
supporting West MEC and reallyreach out and need West MEC for
our workforce development andour talent pipeline that we
produce through our programs.
It gives us the opportunity tocelebrate successes.
But also gives us theopportunity to share the great
things that are happening atWest MEC to get people to
understand that we might be, youmight be able to replicate this
idea, this innovation in yourspace.
I used to always tell in myleadership training if my
students could see it, they canbe it.
(05:48):
And so oftentimes organizationsdo the best they can with the
resources and the facilities andthe equipment that they have,
but unless they can seesomething different, they're
never going to get somethingdifferent.
I've done some talks recentlywhere I asked for feedback after
I do an updated overview ofWest Mac and do an update of our
facilities and our programs,our innovations and our thinking
around CTE.
And one of the greatest piecesof feedback I got the last one
that I did was that we neverrealized how little we're doing
(06:10):
with CTE programs in our owndistrict, And number two, you've
opened our eyes to innovationsof things that we never could
have seen had you not showed us.
So LinkedIn is the opportunityto be able to showcase not only
our talent, our students, ourfacilities, our staff, but the
great work and innovations andthe great thinking behind, what
we do and why we do.
Randy (06:25):
Thank you for sharing because I enjoy a lot of the
content that you're putting onthere.
it helps understand a littlebit more about what's going on
with you.
And I like the ability to kindastretch and share a little more
regularly with a professionalnetwork that spans.
Country, sometimes even outsideof the US in those professional
areas.
Scott (06:45):
Randall, one of my ultimate superintendent goals in
my current position before Imove on years from now and
retire and do whatever I'm gonnado next, is really to take CTE
to the national narrative.
And so a lot of my strategicposts on LinkedIn and other
social media is looking toexpand the thinking around CTE
as a value add to the K 12comprehensive systems.
being able to do that, showsour ability to influence the CTE
narrative, to include otherpartners that may not
(07:07):
necessarily be a part of thatnarrative, to get them on board
to say, how can we workcollaboratively together as a
collective group, as anorganization to move CTE forward
to the national narrative.
So it becomes the first thingpeople talk about
Randy (07:18):
T Tell me your favorite success story from a West MEC
student.
Scott (07:23):
Oftentimes in our we have some experienced orange events
and some other events that we,they, we typically bring alumni
students back.
And probably the most memorableone for me is we had a student
who I.
Enrolled or made applicationand got into our IT security
system and he completed thatprogram.
And through that program he wasable to get a job and in that
job he was able to purchase hisfirst car.
And that was a big deal for himand his family 'cause he had
never had one.
And so I.
Taking that philosophy of hissuccess story into being able to
(07:46):
purchase the car.
His sister also was interestedin going into the IT security
program at West MEC, and she gotinto the program and because
his.
Her brother, who was successfulthe first round.
He was so successful in the ITprogram.
He was able to purchase hissister, a car who had difficulty
in transportation, He was ableto purchase a car for her so she
could go back and forth to theIT program as well, and so they
both completed.
(08:06):
They're both working now intremendous jobs and have very
successful lives.
Randy (08:10):
That's an awesome story.
What is one CTE program thatyou're excited about developing
next or in the very near future?
Scott (08:18):
We began working with the semiconductor industry and then
now we have Amcor and they're abillion plus investment in the
back end of the packaging andresearch arm of the
semiconductor industry.
So there's that piece.
I'm excited about that, but I'malso excited about some of our.
AI program.
We're looking to do some AIcoding and things like that,
which is interesting.
We're gonna have huge datacenters that are gonna be coming
into Phoenix and other placesacross the country.
(08:38):
There's another piece there,but some of our health careers,
we're looking at the radiationtech surgical techs.
And there also needs to betechnicians that fix all the
equipment inside of thehospitals and we're looking at
ways in which we might be ableto go assist in that pipeline as
well.
We're also looking at someoptometry technicians to be able
to assist eye doctors in theirwork in the strategy.
So there's multiple areas andwe're able to see that vision
because we have so many folks,Randall.
(08:58):
I probably have 30, 30 pluspeople of West MEC employees
that sit on specific committeesand groups in and around the
Phoenix area.
Because we're all about whatinputs are we getting?
What systems are feeding us theinformation for us continue to
stay one and two, and three, andfour steps ahead of the game.
Because if you're behind in thegame, there's no way you'll
never catch up.
Almost if you don't get thosereading skills in early literacy
in pre-K all through thirdgrade, it's very difficult to
ever make up the difference.
(09:19):
So we try to put ourselves inthe beginning of that process
rather than coming in at the endtrying to figure out where
Westpac might fit.
Randy (09:25):
What's the best piece of advice that you've ever
received?
I'm sure there have been a lotof 'em, but pick ones.
Scott (09:30):
I would say my dad probably gave me this piece of
advice, years ago.
And I'm a result driven personand so he said to me, the older
I get, the less I pay attentionto what people say and more
attention to what people do.
And so my leadership is aroundbecause I can understand the
system, but what result is itproducing?
And so I always stand, it'salmost like when you walk into a
classroom in observations, I'mgonna watch what the student's
doing 80 to 90% of the timeversus what the teacher's doing.
(09:52):
Because I'm looking for theoutput, I'm looking for the
result.
So if the output's not what youwant, then you gotta change the
input.
So that's how systems work.
Randy (09:58):
How prevalent do you really think amongst CTA
administrators, public schooladministrators?
How many do you think have thatreal results based philosophy
and desire?
I ask that because it's alwaysbeen a frustration for me.
A lot of understanding thetheory.
A lot of, we're going to.
But really what's the result?
Scott (10:17):
I think there's a large percentage of folks that want to
understand it and wanna make ita priority, but I just don't
think that they do understandthe system and the reason I
think that is, number one wedon't necessarily teach it the
way it needs to be taughtthrough the educational system
to really get down into thenitty gritty, get down into the
weeds to find out why certainthings are happening.
And to really determine whatthose touch points are that will
really make a difference in thefinal analysis.
But keep in mind that in orderto really do a deep dive and
(10:38):
data analysis, most of ourassessment systems in this
country are cloaking secrecy.
They really don't give you theright information to be able to
make the kinds of decisions thatwill make a difference.
They give you the 40,000 footview, the superficial
information that simply showsyou a number.
And that number's nothingunless you compare it to
something else.
Each year kids are different,so you're really always
measuring apples to oranges, andthe system in this country is
set up specifically to get theresults that it gets.
Randy (11:00):
Okay.
Let's dive into a little bit ofyour personal background.
You went from being a carpentrystudent to a professional
baseball player to noweducational leadership.
How do these diverseexperiences shape your approach
to education and particularlyCTE.
Scott (11:16):
I was a first team all American, third baseman in 19, I
guess 1988.
And the similarities betweenthat and my carpentry skills, it
all it talks about how all thepieces and parts work together
to create an outcome.
So as a catcher, I wastypically the captain on the
field, so I only had, not onlyhad to know my position, I had
to know everybody else'sposition.
I had to know situationalawareness.
So it was more than just beingable to frame a pitch or to call
(11:36):
a game or block a ball or throwa guy out a second base.
It was more than that.
Same thing with carpentry.
Every single person had theirown individual skillset and
individual missions.
Just as in the baseball field,but everything had to work
together harmoniously to makewhatever beautiful thing you're
trying to make happen, whetherthat's in an organizational or
school system or a house or towin a ball game.
it's almost like a maestro.
It's like guiding and leading asymphony.
(11:57):
You really have to know andunderstand the parts and pieces
to make that beautiful sound.
Randy (12:00):
You'd mentioned when we talked previously that when you
were young, you loved to takethings apart and see how they
worked.
How has that curiosity reallyinfluenced your approach in the
educational system?
Scott (12:10):
So one of the things I've been known for years is my
ability to understand andinterpret data.
And so for an example, for manyyears in the state assessment
systems, we would get our statetest results back.
And I would break those down,not just by district, by school
but we would break them down byteacher and then by student, and
then by specific sub subsets ofstudents groups.
And so we would begin to askthe question, where have we been
successful?
And if so.
(12:30):
Who has been successful and sowe were able to break it down.
So we talk about taking thingsapart, right?
We got all the way down to theindividual student level.
So what things did we change?
This year in our instructionalprogram, we do the same thing.
At West MEC, we do itemanalysis.
We do item distractors.
Not only did you select thewrong answer, but talk to a
student, tell me why youselected that.
What's broken in ourinstructional process that would
make you.
Select that choice.
And oftentimes when studentsdon't know the answer, they'll
(12:51):
always revert back to the latestinformation that they could
answer the question with.
And oftentimes it's either notright or it's not quite
complete.
And so we break our informationat West MEC because when you're
a higher performing districts,it's not the huge things that
you have to correct.
It's the small little thingsthat will make a difference.
We do a deep dive data analysiswith our administrators looking
at our common assessments forour district and looking at
whether or not the items arereliable.
Are they valid?
(13:11):
Are they really asking theright questions to get our
students the right skill sets tobe able to evaluate whether or
not our structural program iseffective or not?
It's getting down to the veryessence of where our students
are performing and then whatsystems building out from that
are in place to produce theresults that we're getting from
our kids.
And then from there you candetermine what needs to be
improved
Randy (13:28):
How do you get teachers involved in that?
Because sometimes they justdidn't understand that or didn't
feel that they have time.
So how do you motivate teachersto do that?
And then how do you teach themto do that?
Scott (13:38):
First and foremost, the conversations that you have.
obviously you bring the data,but those conversations can't be
evaluative in nature.
Folks have to know andunderstand.
one of the other greatestthings I've heard in my work
with the International Centerfor Leadership and Education, I
was working with leadershipdevelopment with the group and I
was working with an individualwho was really trying to learn a
specific skillset in dataanalysis.
And she said to me, she said,Scott, I just have to be
comfortable enough to bevulnerable.
(13:59):
So you have to get teachers tounderstand that when you bring
data, it's not evaluative, it'snot punitive, it's let's take a
look and see where we can makethings better.
So you start with the areas ofsuccess and the great things
that are happening, and then youbegin to build off of the data
set to say, listen, Mrs.
Jones in her class, 70% of herkids are doing well in this
specific aspect.
Your kids are at about 62 or63%.
Let's find out what Mrs.
(14:19):
Smith is doing and see if wecan replicate that practice.
So it's all about developingrelationships and allowing
people to see past the punitiveor the evaluative conversations
that they may be thinking about.
So if you can get past thatpiece and know that their job is
to get better, your job is tohelp them.
One of the superintendents Iworked for in the past he was a
person who could always ask methe most unmatchable question.
I was fully prepared.
I went into his office, heasked me to do a task.
I completed and brought itback, and at the end, he would
(14:40):
ask me one question.
I'd be like, oh my gosh.
I said how do you ask me thesequestions that I'm not prepared
for?
And he said, one of thegreatest things I can tell the
group that may be listening orwill be listening to this is
unless you know what to Say Noto, you'll say Yes to anything.
So when you get into asituation, you lead people to
their own understanding throughyour ability to ask those
questions that are mostpertinent, to get people to
build their own capacity Stopanswering the questions students
(15:01):
ask you.
Lead them to their ownunderstanding.
So the questioning around whenI do my leadership work, it's
around leading people to ahigher capacity.
Randy (15:08):
That brings up a great point because there are so many
times that doing teacherevaluation through the years, I
would go in and.
find teachers reallyuncomfortable or just not
really.
Great question.
Askers and they left so muchopportunity for students on the
table.
How?
How do you develop.
(15:28):
Teachers to ask those goodquestions.
How do you develop your youradministrative team?
How do you develop that as aleader for them to ask those
good questions and get better atquestion asking?
Because I think that's a hugepiece in any leadership journey.
Scott (15:44):
So I did that in a previous district.
And it's really about modeling.
It's about allowing them tohear you say and ask those kinds
of questions.
The gaming industry got itright and they do a lot of
things really well, but thegaming industry says this.
As a person that goes out andbuys a brand new game, you put
it in the Game Boy, or the Xboxor whatever, PlayStation,
whatever, and you start levelone, you get a, you go a little
ways you get killed, you gottastart all over again.
Next time you go, you get alittle bit farther and you get
(16:06):
killed and you start all overagain.
it's all about leading peopleto and through their levels of.
Frustration.
That's the only way you cangrow in capacity.
It's like lifting weights.
if all you ever did was lift 25pounds on the bench bar for a
year, you're never gonna be anystronger.
So I'm okay with pushing peopleto their levels of frustration.
'cause it forces your brain tothink outside your current level
of understanding and findstrategies to move beyond the
next level.
If you wanna run a half amarathon, you don't go out and
practice running five miles aday until the marathon.
(16:27):
You gotta continue to buildthat.
So it's my modeling and myquestioning and me allowing them
to be frustrated.
To, not to a point that theyjust wanna quit, but to the
point to where they can startthinking differently.
And then I ask them anotherquestion.
So for an example, if we got aresult, I might say something
like I wonder how, what thestudent was thinking, or
secondarily, in order for thestudent to be able to produce
that skill in fourth grade, whatskill sets were necessary in
grades K through three, thestudents?
(16:47):
Terminology is a huge issue inassessment.
What you call something inmathematics in kindergarten may
not be necessarily what you callit in fourth grade.
So if the test asks you adifferent concept or vocabulary
term in mathematics that youlearn differently in
kindergarten, now you're like, Idon't understand what they're
asking me, but it's the sameskillset.
It's asking questions, buildingcapacity of others.
Randy (17:04):
Gotcha.
Thank you for sharing that.
So let's move a little bittowards vision development.
Through our previousconversation, what I've known
from you from the past, it isobvious that you have a very
strong, clear vision for CTE.
What do you do to develop thatvision?
What sources, experiences,influences your thinking about
(17:24):
where education needs to go?
And I know at one point in timewhen we talked, you talked a
little bit about CTE being asilver bullet.
If you would also wrap thatinto that, because I think that,
that's going to, that's gonnabe very helpful for a lot of
folks.
Scott (17:39):
They say that you're really only as smart as the data
that you have or informationyou have available at your
fingertips to be able to makedecisions.
How many West MEC folks weactually have sitting on
committees that are actuallyfeeding us information to know
where we are, where we need tobe, and where we need to go.
you also have to be in tunewith the national narrative.
You have to be in tune withbusiness and industry.
You have to know and understandwhat their needs are, not just
now, but what their needs mightbe in one to three and five
years from now, Pieces ofinformation that we get is
(18:00):
through our advisory councils.
All 36 of our unduplicatedprograms have actually industry
professionals from that industrysitting on the advisory
councils and they will drive 95%of what our programs do and
produce.
And so that keeps us on thecutting edge.
So when you look for a vision,you're really gathering multiple
pieces of information.
Not only at the local level,but also in the regional and the
national level about whatshould West MEC be doing right
now to prepare for things thatare coming 18 months from now.
(18:22):
One of the greatest things thatI think I did when I first came
in is the Arizona CommerceAuthority and the Office of
Economic Opportunity are reallyinstrumental in bringing new
companies to Arizona, Phoenix inparticular, especially in the
West Valley.
And so I approached ArizonaCommerce Authority and asked
them, is it possible for WestMEC to have a presence on the
pitch teams to talk to potentialcompanies coming into Phoenix
before they actually make adecision to get here?
What had happened in the pastis West MEC was reactive after a
(18:45):
business or industry opened tosay, okay, now what can West Mac
do for us?
You should have we should haveknown that 16 or 18 months ago.
So now we have a presence onnot only.
Cities, but also in the phoenixarea itself is what companies
are coming in that are potentialcompanies.
West MEC can't be everything toeverybody.
We can be everything tosomebody.
We know specifically what ourmission and our purpose is, and
that's all we're going to do,and we're gonna do that better
than anybody in this country.
(19:05):
And so having those inputs andhaving that information with our
business industry advisors, wealso look at benchmark districts
from around the country thatare also highly successful.
What are they doing that WestMEC should be considering doing?
What's something that they haveinnovation and practice that
would fit specifically in themodel that West MEC is producing
right now.
one of the greatest things Ican tell the group that may be
listening or will be listeningto this is unless you know what
to Say No to, you'll say Yes toanything.
(19:27):
And so the vision also includesyour ability to be able to know
and understand what fits insidethe system and what will
absolutely not be a part of thesystem.
Randy (19:34):
That leads into a follow up.
how do you distinguish betweenbeing that visionary thinker and
merely chasing educationaltrends and fads?
Scott (19:44):
When you look at the performance data of an
individual student who takes andcompletes a course sequence of
CT courses you're looking at,for an example in the state of
Arizona is around 77% graduationrate.
And that's climbed a little.
So we're making some progress.
But you look at A-A-C-T-Ecompleter, and that's probably
in the mid nineties, 94, 95, 96,90 7%.
When you look at theperformance of that student.
Anytime a student is in isengaged, and that's what we're
(20:05):
talking about engaging childrento reinvest in their own
educational experience.
Doing CTE allows students tohave a vision, a purpose, and to
reestablish some hope thatthere is a future for them.
There is a purpose for them.
And so when you talk about thesilver bullet.
If you can get students highlyengaged back in school,
interested in education, CTE tome is the absolute magic bullet.
Improved performance, improvedattendance, decline in
discipline, improved graduationrate.
(20:26):
You look at all the metricsthat we measure, that we say are
important in America, locally,nationally, whatever it is, CTE
has an absolute direct impact onall those performance metrics
that we see are important inAmerica.
And across our districts.
So you talk about educationalfads, we don't follow if we're
doing what we're supposed to bedoing, we are the ones leading
and we are the ones that peopleare looking for trends and fads
(20:47):
to follow.
If that's not happening, thenwe're obviously not following
the vision that I have for WestMEC.
The other thing to keep in mindis that unless you've once been
a very effective and efficientfollower, it's very difficult to
be an effective and efficientleader.
Randy (21:00):
Take that a little further.
that's good advice.
And as you say that I kindarolodex through my experiences
when I've been most successful.
It does usually come out ofsome really good follower
experience or difficult followerexperience, but dive a little
deeper in that.
Scott (21:15):
The follow the followership experience really
allows you to understand who youare as a person, what your
skill sets are, where you'restrong, where you may need some
additional work, but allows youto understand the role of that
position to be able to followwell.
To be able to understandcommunications, to understand a
vision, to be able to ask theright questions, maybe when it's
not clear enough to you, ormaybe to ask the right questions
to get the right training youneed to build your skillset and
(21:36):
capacity.
Without that experience, youhave no idea what it's like
behind you.
And there's, if you never turnaround and look, then the
scenery always looks the same.
And so learning andunderstanding to be a great
follower allows you to be agreat leader because you
understand what it takes to bemeticulous and strategic
visionary.
Communication is all a part ofmaking sure that those behind
you understand what we're doing,where we're going, and what
part and role they play inmaking this vision come into a
(21:57):
reality.
Speaker (21:58):
Hey, we're gonna wrap up part one of our conversation
with Scott Spurgeon, and at ournext episode we'll be going into
part two.
Thank you for joining us.
As we leave, I'm gonna leaveyou with some key points that
Scott made and they're gonna bein his own words.
So join us next time for parttwo with Scott Spurgeon.
Scott (22:18):
The older I get, the less I pay attention to what people
say and more attention to whatpeople do.
Unless you know what to Say Noto, you'll say Yes to anything.
I'm okay with pushing people totheir levels of frustration.
'cause it forces your brain tothink outside your current level
of understanding and findstrategies to move beyond the
next level.
Nancy (22:32):
Thanks for joining us on Lead Learn, laugh Grow.
If you enjoyed today's episode,be sure to follow wherever you
get your podcasts and share itwith a friend who's passionate
about growth.
Connect with me on LinkedIn orvisit RM leadership.com to
continue your leadershipjourney.
Until next time, keep growing.
Welcome to Lead Learn Laugh.
Grow the podcast whereleadership insights meet
practical wisdom.
I'm Nancy, your productionassistant, and today marks the
beginning of an inspiringtwo-part series featuring Dr.
Scott Spurgeon, superintendentof West MEC In this
conversation, we explore thetransformative power of John
Maxwell's leadership principlesas Scott shares how the law of
the LID has shaped hisleadership growth, drawing from
(00:20):
his experience with theInternational Center for
Leadership.
Scott reveals howself-reflection drives
leadership performance and howinfluence not position creates
true leaders.
We'll discover how Scottbalances his demanding role
using technology like FaceTimeto maintain family connections
and how he leverages platformslike LinkedIn to showcase West's
incredible student successstories.
(00:41):
Scott also gives us a glimpseinto exciting future
partnerships with semiconductorand healthcare industries that
are expanding careeropportunities for Arizona
students.
Throughout our discussion,Scott shares personal insights
from his father's wisdom and howfaith grounds his leadership
journey.
Most importantly, you'll hearhis bold vision for West MEC
doubling in size while becominga national leader in career and
(01:02):
technical education excellence.
Whether you're an educator,business leader, or someone
passionate about developing thenext generation of talent, this
conversation offers valuablelessons on leading with purpose,
learning continuously, findingjoy in the journey and growing
both personally andprofessionally.
And now I'll hand it over toAlex to introduce our host.
Alex (01:22):
I'm Alex and I have the absolute pleasure of introducing
today's host, someone who hasspent his career leading,
inspiring, and developingothers.
He's a seasoned educationleader, consultant, speaker, and
executive coach with abackground that spans education,
business, and even themilitary.
As a former Chief operationsofficer of a major school
district, a career in technicaleducation innovator, and now the
(01:45):
creator of Results MatterLeader Development, he's been at
the forefront of leadership andinfluence for decades, but
that's not all.
He's also a John Maxwellcertified Executive Director, a
national keynote speaker, andthe driving force behind this
very podcast.
His passion helping you leadboldly, learn continuously,
laugh often, and growrelentlessly.
So without further ado, let'sdive into today's episode with
(02:06):
our host, Randy Gooch.
Randy (02:08):
Hey, I'm excited.
Today we have a gifted leaderto learn from, and that is Scott
Spurgeon.
He's not only gifted, but he isa visionary and we're gonna
dive right into some rapid firequestions.
What's the most influentialbook you've ever read that's
influenced your leadership?
Scott (02:26):
Randall I think probably I'm a big fan of John Maxwell
and I'd say probably the 21Irrefutable Laws of Leadership
has probably been the mostinfluential book I've probably
read as it relates to myleadership.
And I pay really closeattention to one law in
particular And the Law of Lidsimply says that the
organization can outgrow thecapacity of its leader.
And so it's my job to ensurethat I'm always on, on the go in
the know and great to move.
Randy (02:45):
Great.
that does my heart.
Good.
I too enjoy John Maxwell lotand it's interesting that you
pick that law of the lid becausethere've been a few times in my
leadership journey that I'vehad to say, Hey.
Is it my organization or is itme?
And a lot of times it came downto me and I had to do some
change on that.
That's very cool.
Scott (03:01):
Two things about that real quick as well is I did a
lot of leadership training whenI was with the International
Center for Leadership andEducation Bill Daggett Group out
of Albany, New York.
one of the lessons that Itaught is oftentimes we have to
look in the mirror and do acritical analysis to say, is it
I am I?
The reason why the organizationis either stopped or stalled or
not moving in the rightdirection or moving performance
in a certain way.
And it is just something youhave to ask yourself as a
leader.
Are you the one that's causingthis distraction to happen?
(03:23):
And then the second thingaround, leadership and Maxwell
does just a phenomenal job is itis not a long drawn out
conversation around leadership.
Leadership is influenced, stop.
That's what it is.
If you're not influencing, ifyou're not giving people the
opportunity to move theorganization forward, to grow in
capacity then leadership is notyour game.
Randy (03:37):
Absolutely.
and I've also worked toencourage others too, that hey,
it doesn't take this positionfor you to be a leader.
If you have influence andyou're influencing the situation
the day-to-day work meetingchallenges and having influence
in that.
You are a leader and a lot ofpeople sometimes they don't even
realize that.
And so when that light bulbcomes on, that influence is
leadership, I think that's avery powerful concept.
Scott (04:00):
Yeah, I think everything we do every day.
And what, whether it's at yourworkplace or in your family,
When people don't recognize thatthey can be very detrimental to
the organization unless theleader steps forward and helps
'em understand the impact thatperson may have.
Randy (04:10):
Tell me about one tool or technology that you couldn't
live without to do your job andlead the way you do.
Scott (04:17):
I love technology for technology is, it is what it is,
and it's great when it works.
But I'm a very family orientedperson and I'm a face-to-face
kind of guy.
I never wanna lose theopportunity to sit down with a
person and have a realconversation.
But I'd say the technology Ican't live without.
Being a family man is probablyFaceTime.
Being able to talk to mydaughter, my son, my
grandchildren, my families itbalances me.
It keeps me in a place.
'cause right now I'm in Arizonawith no family and the only
(04:38):
time I get a chance to visitwith them is over FaceTime.
And so there's lots of othertechnologies that are out there
to help us become more efficientin our job.
But the access to thattechnology and the use of that
technology is really what makesa difference and whether or not
it's successful for you or not.
Randy (04:50):
Sure.
I know from just knowing what Iknow about you, you're very
active on LinkedIn.
Tell me a little bit about how,why that platform is important
to you and some of its strengthsthat it has to help you as a
leader, and obviously helppromote what you're doing.
Scott (05:07):
Social media is a great opportunity to be able to share
information, stories, eventsthat others may not necessarily
be able to attend.
And so I think from a LinkedInperspective it's really focused
around business and industry andthe professional side of
employment.
And so I utilize that probablyfirst and foremost because
that's where most of my businessand industry, my leaders, my
cities, workforce development,the folks that are really
(05:27):
supporting West MEC and reallyreach out and need West MEC for
our workforce development andour talent pipeline that we
produce through our programs.
It gives us the opportunity tocelebrate successes.
But also gives us theopportunity to share the great
things that are happening atWest MEC to get people to
understand that we might be, youmight be able to replicate this
idea, this innovation in yourspace.
I used to always tell in myleadership training if my
students could see it, they canbe it.
(05:48):
And so oftentimes organizationsdo the best they can with the
resources and the facilities andthe equipment that they have,
but unless they can seesomething different, they're
never going to get somethingdifferent.
I've done some talks recentlywhere I asked for feedback after
I do an updated overview ofWest Mac and do an update of our
facilities and our programs,our innovations and our thinking
around CTE.
And one of the greatest piecesof feedback I got the last one
that I did was that we neverrealized how little we're doing
(06:10):
with CTE programs in our owndistrict, And number two, you've
opened our eyes to innovationsof things that we never could
have seen had you not showed us.
So LinkedIn is the opportunityto be able to showcase not only
our talent, our students, ourfacilities, our staff, but the
great work and innovations andthe great thinking behind, what
we do and why we do.
Randy (06:25):
Thank you for sharing because I enjoy a lot of the
content that you're putting onthere.
it helps understand a littlebit more about what's going on
with you.
And I like the ability to kindastretch and share a little more
regularly with a professionalnetwork that spans.
Country, sometimes even outsideof the US in those professional
areas.
Scott (06:45):
Randall, one of my ultimate superintendent goals in
my current position before Imove on years from now and
retire and do whatever I'm gonnado next, is really to take CTE
to the national narrative.
And so a lot of my strategicposts on LinkedIn and other
social media is looking toexpand the thinking around CTE
as a value add to the K 12comprehensive systems.
being able to do that, showsour ability to influence the CTE
narrative, to include otherpartners that may not
(07:07):
necessarily be a part of thatnarrative, to get them on board
to say, how can we workcollaboratively together as a
collective group, as anorganization to move CTE forward
to the national narrative.
So it becomes the first thingpeople talk about
Randy (07:18):
T Tell me your favorite success story from a West MEC
student.
Scott (07:23):
Oftentimes in our we have some experienced orange events
and some other events that we,they, we typically bring alumni
students back.
And probably the most memorableone for me is we had a student
who I.
Enrolled or made applicationand got into our IT security
system and he completed thatprogram.
And through that program he wasable to get a job and in that
job he was able to purchase hisfirst car.
And that was a big deal for himand his family 'cause he had
never had one.
And so I.
Taking that philosophy of hissuccess story into being able to
(07:46):
purchase the car.
His sister also was interestedin going into the IT security
program at West MEC, and she gotinto the program and because
his.
Her brother, who was successfulthe first round.
He was so successful in the ITprogram.
He was able to purchase hissister, a car who had difficulty
in transportation, He was ableto purchase a car for her so she
could go back and forth to theIT program as well, and so they
both completed.
(08:06):
They're both working now intremendous jobs and have very
successful lives.
Randy (08:10):
That's an awesome story.
What is one CTE program thatyou're excited about developing
next or in the very near future?
Scott (08:18):
We began working with the semiconductor industry and then
now we have Amcor and they're abillion plus investment in the
back end of the packaging andresearch arm of the
semiconductor industry.
So there's that piece.
I'm excited about that, but I'malso excited about some of our.
AI program.
We're looking to do some AIcoding and things like that,
which is interesting.
We're gonna have huge datacenters that are gonna be coming
into Phoenix and other placesacross the country.
(08:38):
There's another piece there,but some of our health careers,
we're looking at the radiationtech surgical techs.
And there also needs to betechnicians that fix all the
equipment inside of thehospitals and we're looking at
ways in which we might be ableto go assist in that pipeline as
well.
We're also looking at someoptometry technicians to be able
to assist eye doctors in theirwork in the strategy.
So there's multiple areas andwe're able to see that vision
because we have so many folks,Randall.
(08:58):
I probably have 30, 30 pluspeople of West MEC employees
that sit on specific committeesand groups in and around the
Phoenix area.
Because we're all about whatinputs are we getting?
What systems are feeding us theinformation for us continue to
stay one and two, and three, andfour steps ahead of the game.
Because if you're behind in thegame, there's no way you'll
never catch up.
Almost if you don't get thosereading skills in early literacy
in pre-K all through thirdgrade, it's very difficult to
ever make up the difference.
(09:19):
So we try to put ourselves inthe beginning of that process
rather than coming in at the endtrying to figure out where
Westpac might fit.
Randy (09:25):
What's the best piece of advice that you've ever
received?
I'm sure there have been a lotof 'em, but pick ones.
Scott (09:30):
I would say my dad probably gave me this piece of
advice, years ago.
And I'm a result driven personand so he said to me, the older
I get, the less I pay attentionto what people say and more
attention to what people do.
And so my leadership is aroundbecause I can understand the
system, but what result is itproducing?
And so I always stand, it'salmost like when you walk into a
classroom in observations, I'mgonna watch what the student's
doing 80 to 90% of the timeversus what the teacher's doing.
(09:52):
Because I'm looking for theoutput, I'm looking for the
result.
So if the output's not what youwant, then you gotta change the
input.
So that's how systems work.
Randy (09:58):
How prevalent do you really think amongst CTA
administrators, public schooladministrators?
How many do you think have thatreal results based philosophy
and desire?
I ask that because it's alwaysbeen a frustration for me.
A lot of understanding thetheory.
A lot of, we're going to.
But really what's the result?
Scott (10:17):
I think there's a large percentage of folks that want to
understand it and wanna make ita priority, but I just don't
think that they do understandthe system and the reason I
think that is, number one wedon't necessarily teach it the
way it needs to be taughtthrough the educational system
to really get down into thenitty gritty, get down into the
weeds to find out why certainthings are happening.
And to really determine whatthose touch points are that will
really make a difference in thefinal analysis.
But keep in mind that in orderto really do a deep dive and
(10:38):
data analysis, most of ourassessment systems in this
country are cloaking secrecy.
They really don't give you theright information to be able to
make the kinds of decisions thatwill make a difference.
They give you the 40,000 footview, the superficial
information that simply showsyou a number.
And that number's nothingunless you compare it to
something else.
Each year kids are different,so you're really always
measuring apples to oranges, andthe system in this country is
set up specifically to get theresults that it gets.
Randy (11:00):
Okay.
Let's dive into a little bit ofyour personal background.
You went from being a carpentrystudent to a professional
baseball player to noweducational leadership.
How do these diverseexperiences shape your approach
to education and particularlyCTE.
Scott (11:16):
I was a first team all American, third baseman in 19, I
guess 1988.
And the similarities betweenthat and my carpentry skills, it
all it talks about how all thepieces and parts work together
to create an outcome.
So as a catcher, I wastypically the captain on the
field, so I only had, not onlyhad to know my position, I had
to know everybody else'sposition.
I had to know situationalawareness.
So it was more than just beingable to frame a pitch or to call
(11:36):
a game or block a ball or throwa guy out a second base.
It was more than that.
Same thing with carpentry.
Every single person had theirown individual skillset and
individual missions.
Just as in the baseball field,but everything had to work
together harmoniously to makewhatever beautiful thing you're
trying to make happen, whetherthat's in an organizational or
school system or a house or towin a ball game.
it's almost like a maestro.
It's like guiding and leading asymphony.
(11:57):
You really have to know andunderstand the parts and pieces
to make that beautiful sound.
Randy (12:00):
You'd mentioned when we talked previously that when you
were young, you loved to takethings apart and see how they
worked.
How has that curiosity reallyinfluenced your approach in the
educational system?
Scott (12:10):
So one of the things I've been known for years is my
ability to understand andinterpret data.
And so for an example, for manyyears in the state assessment
systems, we would get our statetest results back.
And I would break those down,not just by district, by school
but we would break them down byteacher and then by student, and
then by specific sub subsets ofstudents groups.
And so we would begin to askthe question, where have we been
successful?
And if so.
(12:30):
Who has been successful and sowe were able to break it down.
So we talk about taking thingsapart, right?
We got all the way down to theindividual student level.
So what things did we change?
This year in our instructionalprogram, we do the same thing.
At West MEC, we do itemanalysis.
We do item distractors.
Not only did you select thewrong answer, but talk to a
student, tell me why youselected that.
What's broken in ourinstructional process that would
make you.
Select that choice.
And oftentimes when studentsdon't know the answer, they'll
(12:51):
always revert back to the latestinformation that they could
answer the question with.
And oftentimes it's either notright or it's not quite
complete.
And so we break our informationat West MEC because when you're
a higher performing districts,it's not the huge things that
you have to correct.
It's the small little thingsthat will make a difference.
We do a deep dive data analysiswith our administrators looking
at our common assessments forour district and looking at
whether or not the items arereliable.
Are they valid?
(13:11):
Are they really asking theright questions to get our
students the right skill sets tobe able to evaluate whether or
not our structural program iseffective or not?
It's getting down to the veryessence of where our students
are performing and then whatsystems building out from that
are in place to produce theresults that we're getting from
our kids.
And then from there you candetermine what needs to be
improved
Randy (13:28):
How do you get teachers involved in that?
Because sometimes they justdidn't understand that or didn't
feel that they have time.
So how do you motivate teachersto do that?
And then how do you teach themto do that?
Scott (13:38):
First and foremost, the conversations that you have.
obviously you bring the data,but those conversations can't be
evaluative in nature.
Folks have to know andunderstand.
one of the other greatestthings I've heard in my work
with the International Centerfor Leadership and Education, I
was working with leadershipdevelopment with the group and I
was working with an individualwho was really trying to learn a
specific skillset in dataanalysis.
And she said to me, she said,Scott, I just have to be
comfortable enough to bevulnerable.
(13:59):
So you have to get teachers tounderstand that when you bring
data, it's not evaluative, it'snot punitive, it's let's take a
look and see where we can makethings better.
So you start with the areas ofsuccess and the great things
that are happening, and then youbegin to build off of the data
set to say, listen, Mrs.
Jones in her class, 70% of herkids are doing well in this
specific aspect.
Your kids are at about 62 or63%.
Let's find out what Mrs.
(14:19):
Smith is doing and see if wecan replicate that practice.
So it's all about developingrelationships and allowing
people to see past the punitiveor the evaluative conversations
that they may be thinking about.
So if you can get past thatpiece and know that their job is
to get better, your job is tohelp them.
One of the superintendents Iworked for in the past he was a
person who could always ask methe most unmatchable question.
I was fully prepared.
I went into his office, heasked me to do a task.
I completed and brought itback, and at the end, he would
(14:40):
ask me one question.
I'd be like, oh my gosh.
I said how do you ask me thesequestions that I'm not prepared
for?
And he said, one of thegreatest things I can tell the
group that may be listening orwill be listening to this is
unless you know what to Say Noto, you'll say Yes to anything.
So when you get into asituation, you lead people to
their own understanding throughyour ability to ask those
questions that are mostpertinent, to get people to
build their own capacity Stopanswering the questions students
(15:01):
ask you.
Lead them to their ownunderstanding.
So the questioning around whenI do my leadership work, it's
around leading people to ahigher capacity.
Randy (15:08):
That brings up a great point because there are so many
times that doing teacherevaluation through the years, I
would go in and.
find teachers reallyuncomfortable or just not
really.
Great question.
Askers and they left so muchopportunity for students on the
table.
How?
How do you develop.
(15:28):
Teachers to ask those goodquestions.
How do you develop your youradministrative team?
How do you develop that as aleader for them to ask those
good questions and get better atquestion asking?
Because I think that's a hugepiece in any leadership journey.
Scott (15:44):
So I did that in a previous district.
And it's really about modeling.
It's about allowing them tohear you say and ask those kinds
of questions.
The gaming industry got itright and they do a lot of
things really well, but thegaming industry says this.
As a person that goes out andbuys a brand new game, you put
it in the Game Boy, or the Xboxor whatever, PlayStation,
whatever, and you start levelone, you get a, you go a little
ways you get killed, you gottastart all over again.
Next time you go, you get alittle bit farther and you get
(16:06):
killed and you start all overagain.
it's all about leading peopleto and through their levels of.
Frustration.
That's the only way you cangrow in capacity.
It's like lifting weights.
if all you ever did was lift 25pounds on the bench bar for a
year, you're never gonna be anystronger.
So I'm okay with pushing peopleto their levels of frustration.
'cause it forces your brain tothink outside your current level
of understanding and findstrategies to move beyond the
next level.
If you wanna run a half amarathon, you don't go out and
practice running five miles aday until the marathon.
(16:27):
You gotta continue to buildthat.
So it's my modeling and myquestioning and me allowing them
to be frustrated.
To, not to a point that theyjust wanna quit, but to the
point to where they can startthinking differently.
And then I ask them anotherquestion.
So for an example, if we got aresult, I might say something
like I wonder how, what thestudent was thinking, or
secondarily, in order for thestudent to be able to produce
that skill in fourth grade, whatskill sets were necessary in
grades K through three, thestudents?
(16:47):
Terminology is a huge issue inassessment.
What you call something inmathematics in kindergarten may
not be necessarily what you callit in fourth grade.
So if the test asks you adifferent concept or vocabulary
term in mathematics that youlearn differently in
kindergarten, now you're like, Idon't understand what they're
asking me, but it's the sameskillset.
It's asking questions, buildingcapacity of others.
Randy (17:04):
Gotcha.
Thank you for sharing that.
So let's move a little bittowards vision development.
Through our previousconversation, what I've known
from you from the past, it isobvious that you have a very
strong, clear vision for CTE.
What do you do to develop thatvision?
What sources, experiences,influences your thinking about
(17:24):
where education needs to go?
And I know at one point in timewhen we talked, you talked a
little bit about CTE being asilver bullet.
If you would also wrap thatinto that, because I think that,
that's going to, that's gonnabe very helpful for a lot of
folks.
Scott (17:39):
They say that you're really only as smart as the data
that you have or informationyou have available at your
fingertips to be able to makedecisions.
How many West MEC folks weactually have sitting on
committees that are actuallyfeeding us information to know
where we are, where we need tobe, and where we need to go.
you also have to be in tunewith the national narrative.
You have to be in tune withbusiness and industry.
You have to know and understandwhat their needs are, not just
now, but what their needs mightbe in one to three and five
years from now, Pieces ofinformation that we get is
(18:00):
through our advisory councils.
All 36 of our unduplicatedprograms have actually industry
professionals from that industrysitting on the advisory
councils and they will drive 95%of what our programs do and
produce.
And so that keeps us on thecutting edge.
So when you look for a vision,you're really gathering multiple
pieces of information.
Not only at the local level,but also in the regional and the
national level about whatshould West MEC be doing right
now to prepare for things thatare coming 18 months from now.
(18:22):
One of the greatest things thatI think I did when I first came
in is the Arizona CommerceAuthority and the Office of
Economic Opportunity are reallyinstrumental in bringing new
companies to Arizona, Phoenix inparticular, especially in the
West Valley.
And so I approached ArizonaCommerce Authority and asked
them, is it possible for WestMEC to have a presence on the
pitch teams to talk to potentialcompanies coming into Phoenix
before they actually make adecision to get here?
What had happened in the pastis West MEC was reactive after a
(18:45):
business or industry opened tosay, okay, now what can West Mac
do for us?
You should have we should haveknown that 16 or 18 months ago.
So now we have a presence onnot only.
Cities, but also in the phoenixarea itself is what companies
are coming in that are potentialcompanies.
West MEC can't be everything toeverybody.
We can be everything tosomebody.
We know specifically what ourmission and our purpose is, and
that's all we're going to do,and we're gonna do that better
than anybody in this country.
(19:05):
And so having those inputs andhaving that information with our
business industry advisors, wealso look at benchmark districts
from around the country thatare also highly successful.
What are they doing that WestMEC should be considering doing?
What's something that they haveinnovation and practice that
would fit specifically in themodel that West MEC is producing
right now.
one of the greatest things Ican tell the group that may be
listening or will be listeningto this is unless you know what
to Say No to, you'll say Yes toanything.
(19:27):
And so the vision also includesyour ability to be able to know
and understand what fits insidethe system and what will
absolutely not be a part of thesystem.
Randy (19:34):
That leads into a follow up.
how do you distinguish betweenbeing that visionary thinker and
merely chasing educationaltrends and fads?
Scott (19:44):
When you look at the performance data of an
individual student who takes andcompletes a course sequence of
CT courses you're looking at,for an example in the state of
Arizona is around 77% graduationrate.
And that's climbed a little.
So we're making some progress.
But you look at A-A-C-T-Ecompleter, and that's probably
in the mid nineties, 94, 95, 96,90 7%.
When you look at theperformance of that student.
Anytime a student is in isengaged, and that's what we're
(20:05):
talking about engaging childrento reinvest in their own
educational experience.
Doing CTE allows students tohave a vision, a purpose, and to
reestablish some hope thatthere is a future for them.
There is a purpose for them.
And so when you talk about thesilver bullet.
If you can get students highlyengaged back in school,
interested in education, CTE tome is the absolute magic bullet.
Improved performance, improvedattendance, decline in
discipline, improved graduationrate.
(20:26):
You look at all the metricsthat we measure, that we say are
important in America, locally,nationally, whatever it is, CTE
has an absolute direct impact onall those performance metrics
that we see are important inAmerica.
And across our districts.
So you talk about educationalfads, we don't follow if we're
doing what we're supposed to bedoing, we are the ones leading
and we are the ones that peopleare looking for trends and fads
(20:47):
to follow.
If that's not happening, thenwe're obviously not following
the vision that I have for WestMEC.
The other thing to keep in mindis that unless you've once been
a very effective and efficientfollower, it's very difficult to
be an effective and efficientleader.
Randy (21:00):
Take that a little further.
that's good advice.
And as you say that I kindarolodex through my experiences
when I've been most successful.
It does usually come out ofsome really good follower
experience or difficult followerexperience, but dive a little
deeper in that.
Scott (21:15):
The follow the followership experience really
allows you to understand who youare as a person, what your
skill sets are, where you'restrong, where you may need some
additional work, but allows youto understand the role of that
position to be able to followwell.
To be able to understandcommunications, to understand a
vision, to be able to ask theright questions, maybe when it's
not clear enough to you, ormaybe to ask the right questions
to get the right training youneed to build your skillset and
(21:36):
capacity.
Without that experience, youhave no idea what it's like
behind you.
And there's, if you never turnaround and look, then the
scenery always looks the same.
And so learning andunderstanding to be a great
follower allows you to be agreat leader because you
understand what it takes to bemeticulous and strategic
visionary.
Communication is all a part ofmaking sure that those behind
you understand what we're doing,where we're going, and what
part and role they play inmaking this vision come into a
(21:57):
reality.
Speaker (21:58):
Hey, we're gonna wrap up part one of our conversation
with Scott Spurgeon, and at ournext episode we'll be going into
part two.
Thank you for joining us.
As we leave, I'm gonna leaveyou with some key points that
Scott made and they're gonna bein his own words.
So join us next time for parttwo with Scott Spurgeon.
Scott (22:18):
The older I get, the less I pay attention to what people
say and more attention to whatpeople do.
Unless you know what to Say Noto, you'll say Yes to anything.
I'm okay with pushing people totheir levels of frustration.
'cause it forces your brain tothink outside your current level
of understanding and findstrategies to move beyond the
next level.
Nancy (22:32):
Thanks for joining us on Lead Learn, laugh Grow.
If you enjoyed today's episode,be sure to follow wherever you
get your podcasts and share itwith a friend who's passionate
about growth.
Connect with me on LinkedIn orvisit RM leadership.com to
continue your leadershipjourney.
Until next time, keep growing.
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