March 10, 2025 • 22 mins
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In this episode of the 'Lead, Learn, Laugh, Grow' podcast, host Randy Gooch welcomes Dave Baker, a Certified Exit Planning Advisor from St. Louis, Missouri. Dave shares his journey from a 31-year career in public education to helping small, family-owned businesses scale and transition successfully. He emphasizes the importance of collaboration, human and cultural capital, and personal leadership philosophies. Dave recounts his experiences and lessons in leadership, providing constructive insights for young leaders. Randy and Dave also discuss the crucial elements of trust, feedback, and building effective teams in both educational and business settings. Finally, Dave reflects on personal health goals and his aspirations for future business growth.
00:00 Introduction to Today's Episode
00:38 Meet the Host: Randy Gooch
01:26 Guest Introduction: Dave Baker
01:51 Dave Baker's Career Journey
02:51 The Importance of Human and Cultural Capital
04:34 Entrepreneurial Influence in Education
07:06 Leadership and Collaboration Insights
08:34 The Role of Feedback in Leadership
11:01 Decision Making and Trust in Leadership
12:43 Success, Failure, and Personal Growth
14:29 Influential Figures and Personal Stories
20:43 Challenges and Future Goals
22:33 Conclusion and Farewell
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Alex (00:00):
Today on the Lead, Learn, Laugh, Grow podcast, we have
(00:02):
Dave Baker, a certified exitplanning advisor in St.
Louis, Missouri, shares hisjourney from a public education
career to helping smallbusinesses scale and transition
successfully.
With a background as an educatorand administrator, Baker
leverages his experience toadvise businesses on enhancing
their value and preparing forexits.
Or generational transfers.
He discusses the importance ofcollaboration, human and
(00:23):
cultural capital, and personalleadership philosophies.
Baker also reflects on hisentrepreneurial influence,
personal health goals, and thesignificance of building trust
and providing constructivefeedback in business and
education.
Up next is Nancy to introduceour podcast host.
Nancy (00:38):
Welcome to Lead, Learn, Laugh, Grow, the podcast where
leadership, learning, andlaughter come together to fuel
personal and professionalgrowth.
I'm Nancy, and I have theabsolute pleasure of introducing
today's host.
Someone who has spent his careerleading, inspiring, and
developing others.
He's a seasoned educationleader, consultant, speaker, and
executive coach, with abackground that spans education,
(00:58):
business, and even the military.
As a former chief operationsofficer of a major school
district, a career and technicaleducation innovator, and now the
creator of Results Matter LeaderDevelopment, he's been at the
forefront of leadership andinfluence for decades.
But that's not all.
He's also a John MaxwellCertified Executive Director, a
National Keynote Speaker, andthe driving force behind this
very podcast.
His passion?
(01:19):
Helping you lead boldly, learncontinuously, laugh often, and
grow relentlessly.
So without further ado, let'sdive into today's episode with
our host, Randy Gooch.
Randy (01:27):
Thank you so much, Nancy.
Hey, today we've got a greatguest, Dave Baker, and I've
known Dave for a while workingin career and technical
education in He's since retiredfrom public education and off
doing a really coolentrepreneurial part of his
career, and he's going to sharewith us some things that he's
learned in his leadershipjourney, and we're going to
learn from him and have somegreat discussion.
(01:48):
Dave, introduce yourself.
Dave Baker (01:51):
Dave Baker.
I live here in St.
Louis, Missouri, South County,and my current role is a
Certified Exit Planning Advisorthrough the Exit Planning
Institute.
I work with small.
privately held family ownedcompanies within about a 50 mile
radius my intent is to helpbusinesses scale up, accelerate
the value of their business,potentially in anticipation of
selling the business ortransferring it to the next
(02:12):
generation Only 30 to 35 percentof family owned businesses make
it from a first generation to asecond generation.
So the work I do hopefully helpsthose companies, those
businesses accelerate the value,make them better workplaces,
make them more valuable, makefamily members want.
possibly to be part of that.
Or if the owner decides to sellto private equity or somebody
else to make that business asvaluable as possible so the
(02:33):
owner exits positively.
We talk to owners that everybodyexits their business.
Hopefully you'll do itvertically and not horizontally,
make yourself redundant so yourbusiness grows in value.
owners to be able to takeadvantage of what they've built.
enjoy the fruits of labor.
take vacations.
play golf, volunteer thebusiness should not only run
well while you're gone, itshould thrive and grow.
We focus on human capital,structural capital.
(02:54):
customer capital and culturalcapital and the cultural capital
is typically the one we work onlast.
It's more difficult than therest to have that good
functioning, relationalsituation between your employees
and your customers.
People want to be there.
People want to be around yourbusiness.
You want to retain thoseemployees.
You want to retain thosecustomers.
So that's really the heart ofwhat we do.
Those four intangible capitals.
Randy (03:15):
That's really exciting.
I know when I talked with youearlier this fall, you bring a
lot of excitement to this isn'tyour first career.
Tell me what led you up to beable to do this, and I know this
is after a retirement for, from,public education.
Tell me a little bit about thatpath that brought you here,
Dave Baker (03:30):
I started in public education in 1989 and retired
in, the summer of 2020.
I spent 31 years in publiceducation, with three districts,
Farmington, Missouri, Lindberghschool district in South County,
and the special school districtof St.
Louis County.
I spent eight years in theclassroom and as a football
coach, I spent nine years in theclassroom, 16 years as a
assistant principal andprincipal.
six years as an assistantsuperintendent, the last 18
(03:51):
years with the special schooldistrict serves all of the other
districts in St.
Louis County and serve studentsand their families who have
special needs, learningdisabilities, things like that.
What a lot of people do not knowis that the Special School
District of St.
Louis County has about 7 percentof its workforce and budget goes
to career and technicaleducation.
Operating two high schools inthe nineties, I also worked for
a family business.
part time while in education,got my, MBA and that business,
(04:13):
eventually liquidatedsuccessfully.
I went back into education, witha very different perspective.
One, I went back with thatbusiness degree and the other, I
went back in this idea that Ireally liked business, but I
also appreciated being ineducation.
When I retired, I thought Istill want to do something.
I was fairly young, I wanted todo something that really
involved both.
So I embarked on this journey ofwhat can I do to be a coach?
Randy (04:33):
That's awesome.
you've started in education,went to business, came back to
education, you always brought anentrepreneurial edge to
education and From what I'munderstanding of what you're
doing now, you're bringing backan educational component into
this business, Talk about thatentrepreneurial influence and
how it probably made you better,made your students better, in
(04:54):
the educational setting.
And then talk about thateducational piece and how it
fits so nicely into what you'redoing now in helping, businesses
transition.
Dave Baker (05:02):
Yeah, the entrepreneurial piece.
I've always felt that way Thefamily business.
my uncle took over in the earlyeighties.
He came back from Vietnam.
started working for the company.
bought it He was anentrepreneur.
He grew that business.
went in different directions.
added components when you workwith students, especially in
career and technical education Alot of those kids come in
comprehensive high schools hadPart time jobs When we went to
the career and technicalschools, I'm going to bet we
probably had 65 to 80 percent ofthose kids who held part time
(05:23):
jobs, bought their own vehicles,paid their own insurance and a
lot of their own things.
I saw that as being anentrepreneur.
I'm guiding where I go.
I want to take care of my ownthings.
be in charge of my future afterthe nation at risk report in the
eighties, we had this push foreverybody going to college and
we saw this.
reduction of career andtechnical education shop classes
and home economics we pushedkids into college, whether they
were a good match or not.
I saw career and tech kids askids who said, I want to be in
(05:45):
charge of what I do.
And I think a lot of themcarried that over.
even after they graduated.
I how many of those kids didstart their own business?
I saw them as beingentrepreneurs.
I learned as much from them asthey learned from me.
Randy (05:56):
Dave, I really like that approach that you learn so much
from them from anentrepreneurial standpoint.
I think sometimes classroomteachers, uh, get in a mode
where they think they're on thehook for all the learning, and a
lot of that learning does notcome back the other way.
Great approach.
Dave Baker (06:10):
Small business owners are people I have great
respect for.
The risk sleepless nights,meeting payroll, dealing with
vendors customers, governmentregulations, at the state level
and oftentimes at the federallevel.
It is a 24 hour, seven day aweek, 365 day a year job when
you own a small business andsmall business owners take on
the responsibility of the peoplewho work for them.
(06:30):
They take on theresponsibilities of their
families.
I see those that they are veryconcerned.
involved in the lives of thosepeople.
And if something goes wrong,they take that very personally.
It keeps them up at night.
many don't have time or abilityto think about it.
They're so involved in the dayto day operation.
as a business coach, what Ibring to businesses, is
objectivity.
Randy (06:49):
Absolutely.
As you've talked about ineducation, we do much
collaboration, particularly inCareer and Ed, we're not just
collaborating within the wallsof a school, we're developing
Business partnerships, economic,development workforce
development.
we're always looking to lobbyand garner political support for
the work were doing.
collaboration is key Tell meabout your leadership journey
(07:09):
and what role collaboration hasplayed.
Dave Baker (07:12):
If you're in a leadership position, you're
going to get credit foreverything that happens well and
for everything that goes wrong.
one key element of leadership ispresence.
That's changed.
with social media and becomingvirtual But I still think people
like human contact.
as a business owner, buildingadministrator and central office
administrator, people need tosee you.
They need to know you'reinvolved.
That is incredibly important tome.
(07:34):
One of the other things that Ithink is important is this idea
of, because everything flows apill, is you can self deprecate
often it works to youradvantage.
There's no need to take creditfor everything.
Push that credit off to otherpeople with whom you
collaborated or who wereinvolved because people who
understand success know you'reresponsible.
one of the things I did best asan administrator was hire.
I hired good people.
(07:54):
Most of them, I'd say maybe allof them, smarter than me, better
read than I was.
They were just better.
They were just better at so manydifferent things.
I know an assistant principalthat I hired better at me than
everything.
I never wanted to be thesmartest person in the room.
I always thought, I need to hireup.
I married up with my wife and Ithink I hired up.
And I think that's incrediblyimportant that you're always
looking for those people.
Who can challenge you and fromwhom you can learn, and then as
(08:16):
that leader, you can give thatobjective feedback Are you doing
what you said You told me wecould do this.
You told me as this person thatI hired to bring in this room,
that you could bring about thischange, be an agent of this.
supervisor or business owner,I'm holding you accountable
That's why I hired you.
I want to challenge that.
I want to give you support andbe there for you, but I want to
keep you on track.
Constant feedback is somethingleadership misses small business
(08:37):
owners struggle to give Annualfeedback, let alone semi annual
feedback.
We encourage owners to beproviding informal feedback all
the time.
As a building administrator,when you give feedback and have
constructive conversations.
They need to be immediate.
pertinent, and specific.
If you're giving annual feedbackevery December, you're always
looking backward.
So you may be going back andtalking about things that
happened in the previous winterand the spring.
(08:58):
when providing feedback, startwith a positive note.
this is what I noticed that youwere doing well and be specific.
You're really tearing this up.
You're doing a great job withthis.
Then move into deficit.
there are a few things I believeyou can improve some things you
probably have noticed also.
this is what I want you to focuson moving forward.
We told you the positive.
We told you the deficit.
let's talk about the opportunityfor growth.
How do you fix deficits?
(09:18):
How do you get better at that?
as a building administrator incareer and technical education,
we were bringing in people, youand I were hiring people who
were oftentimes coming into asecond or third career.
They'd already had 10, 15, 20years in other professions,
bringing knowledge andenthusiasm The problem for many
of them is how do you manage aclass?
How do you engage teenagers?
if we left them on their own forthat, we probably get what we
(09:42):
expected and it won't be verygood.
when you talk to someone aboutthat deficit that you're seeing,
you've got to give them guidanceand leadership and tell them how
to engage in that opportunity toget better.
And that's where coaching comesin.
Be self deprecating.
Push the credit for things offto other people.
It eventually is going to comeback to you.
There's no question about it.
Be present.
Let people know you're there.
Not only, when times are good,but also when times you're bad,
(10:05):
I'm going to support you.
I won't abandon you.
If you do something that iswrong or you make a mistake,
We're going to have to deal withthat.
But I will be here with you.
I will not abandon you.
Randy (10:13):
Absolutely.
giving credit back to people.
I can think of a specific timewhen, I decided to be super
intentional about that.
I was having good success.
climbing the ladder, that switchcame on, it flipped.
And I really started focusing onhow can I make others better?
How can I help their ladder?
hold their ladder at theconference this fall, it was
(10:34):
gratifying because I saw peopleI had involvement with and been
able to help and watch themcontinue to grow.
it was revealed how smart theyare.
I always get excited about thatconference the progress made, is
about the high quality of peopledistricts have hired, their
understanding of the mission Ishare your feeling about needing
personal contact, some thinkalmost anything can be handled
(10:55):
in an email.
I've never been able to, writeeloquently or convey my thoughts
well.
it's very gratifying when you'reon the ground Obviously,
leaders, no matter what yourrole, what sector you're in,
decision making is a key.
Talk about how you makedecisions, how you coach people,
to make sound decisions.
Young leaders grapple with that
Dave Baker (11:12):
There's an adage.
you'll never make the sale ifyou don't ask the customer to
commit oftentimes and I'm goingto approach this from the small
business side and talking withsmall business owners.
Oftentimes they make decisionswhen they're the only one in the
room.
They don't.
There's a book out there calledmultipliers.
And one of the things inmultipliers talks about tapping
into the genius of everybody inyour company.
(11:33):
This idea that if you don't getinput from people, if you don't
draw things out there may bepeople who have a solution, they
know how to fix the problemyou're dealing with in your
business.
They have a solution to it.
If you don't ask, you're nevergoing to know if you're a
building administrator andyou're making decisions about
something that's going to impacttwo teachers in a subject area
or a part of the building, Ican't imagine making that
decision without involving thosepeople getting their perspective
(11:55):
and asking for their feedback.
There's a book by PatrickLincioni called the five
dysfunctions of a team.
at the bottom is trust.
trust means different things todifferent people.
When I talk to small businessowners, trust is that idea that
I can bring something to you andregardless of whether it's well
received, it's not going to beheld against me.
(12:16):
if we build trust amongemployees and leadership we can
engage in healthy conflict.
I can put my idea on the tableand we can vet that idea.
Now, hopefully what you're goingto get from me is Commitment
because I see people listen tome.
People asked my opinion.
People valued what I had to say.
They didn't go with my idea, butthat's okay, next time I have an
idea.
I'll feel comfortable bringingthat forward.
And at some point.
(12:36):
leadership is bringing the mostout of people.
Randy (12:38):
Talk about success, talk about failure, and why both are
so important.
Dave Baker (12:43):
I've had more failure than success.
we learn from failures much morethan successes.
Now, I think when you'reyounger, oftentimes what you
think about in success is.
How I was elevated, how I gotrecognition, how it was, the
spotlight was on me or I won anaward.
I was the most valuable player.
my team won and I was a big partof that.
I kicked the winning field goal.
But as we get older, we reflect,for me, I see the successes as
(13:07):
this idea of how I positivelyimpacted people.
people will forget what you did.
what you said.
but never how you made themfeel.
that for me is truly success.
When you look back and I do takepride in, I have some people
that, I was the principal in thebuilding for them and I have
engagement with them, with someother organizations.
And it does make me feel goodwhen they make a positive
comment that, Dave was there forus.
(13:28):
He was always present.
We always felt supported by him.
That's what brings me success.
not winning an award or gettinga promotion.
It's knowing I help people feelbetter about themselves, their
career, help them move up.
And as far as small businessesthat's the key.
It's not landing necessarily anew client.
Although I enjoy that.
It's not, if you make some extramoney, it's not that it's
really, when you walk away do Ifeel that small business owner
(13:48):
got beyond a hurdle.
That's what I see as success.
Randy (13:51):
One of my teachers in leadership is John Maxwell I was
at a conference with him talkingabout success and failure being
cousins, you're going to gothrough life with both.
The failure is there.
To keep you humble and thesuccess is there to build enough
confidence for you to take onbigger things.
it's true.
We get it all as leaders.
I've had far more failures thansuccess, we learn so much.
Dave Baker (14:12):
I think, as leaders, oftentimes we're protectors,
I'll try to shield you.
And although I think that's agood instinct.
I think oftentimes it's thewrong way to look at it.
You have to expose people tothings.
You have to let them experiencethings for themselves, get them
involved.
You mentioned an author.
Simon Sinek.
Simon Sinek is great aboutfinding your why.
Why do you do this?
Why be involved What's importantto you?
he's a great resource.
Randy (14:29):
You mentioned Simon Sinek, who are some people that
have influenced you and, thatyou stand on the shoulders of at
this point in your leadershipjourney, but those that were
supporting you, how did theyinfluence you
Dave Baker (14:39):
Let me tell a quick story if that's okay.
Back in 2002, 2003.
I'd taken a new position as abuilding principal, and went
through a very difficult time.
there every day.
It was showing up physically,but mentally, emotionally, just
didn't know if I could do thejob.
after going through this, I justdidn't know I remember, several
months into this, I get a callfrom, my direct, superior who
says, I need to see you in myoffice today at, three o'clock.
clear the buses and then cometomorrow.
(15:00):
I felt a bit of relief.
I thought I knew what wascoming.
That was close to contract timefor the next year.
I thought They're going to tellme they're going in a different
direction.
I'm okay with that because Idon't know if I could do this
anyway.
So I go around the corner andwalk into this gentleman's
office don't see out of myperipheral vision.
Dr.
Peter Cackers, superintendent ofspecial school district.
Peter was a Great mentor for me.
Hard nose guy who came out ofNew York public school system
and came to Missouri and specialschool district at just the
(15:21):
right time in the late nineties.
as I'm focusing on my, directsuperior, all of a sudden the
door closes behind me.
And I looked to my left and Isee Dr.
Kakris.
And I'm thinking, wow, they'renot going to pull any punches
It's done.
Just the director, but thesuperintendent, they're going to
tell me you are not our guy.
we are going in a differentdirection.
Dr.
Kakris put his hand on myshoulder and said, you are our
guy.
We are behind you all the way.
(15:42):
Anything you need.
We are here for you.
then he opened the door andwalked out.
I got better from that point on.
I was there the next day, anhour early and I was moving and
shaken.
I went through that difficulttime, which eventually resolved
that Made all the difference itwas a tipping point I was going
to have a contract non renewedto 10 seconds of somebody that I
highly respected said, we'rebehind you, whatever you need.
(16:05):
Made all the difference to me.
When I worked in this smallbusiness with my uncle, he was
tremendous influence on me.
He's also passed away, but agreat guy.
My mother, incredible person.
My mother became a financialplanner.
I think back in 1976 76 77 backat a time when There weren't
many financial planners as awoman, she was one of just a few
across the entire country.
(16:26):
She became one of the mostsuccessful financial planners in
Missouri my father.
Who just has an incrediblemechanical mind was always
inspiration for me in the careerand technical space because my
dad would have not been a goodfit for college, but my dad is
the kind of person who can walkin and he can look at a, he can
look at a piece of furniture andgo, yeah, I can build that.
My wife, incredibly intelligentworks in workforce development
and, apprenticeships she's muchsmarter than I am.
(16:46):
I learn a great deal from herand, appreciate, the perspective
that she provides to me.
There's a gentleman herelocally, Shep Hyken, who I've
been introduced to recently, whois all about customer service.
his book is, an amazingexperience for every customer.
Randy (16:56):
Yeah, talking about the message that superintendent sent
you.
Hand on your shoulder.
confidence in you when youdidn't have the confidence.
I think back to my militarycareer, young first professional
job, in a harsh environment.
I worked for a Colonel and hewas constantly blowing me up
more positively.
(17:18):
Then I knew that I was capableof doing at the time, but adding
that confidence.
every time we'd be in asituation, it'd be difficult.
his comment was, Gooch, you cando that.
You can handle anything.
Go do it.
In my head, I'm thinking, Idon't know how but after a while
you start thinking, I can figureit out.
then it becomes, yeah, you arethat go to guy.
it puts intentionality and vigorinto your step You like to hear
(17:39):
somebody's got your back.
that you are the one they seeas, a solution to issues I
really appreciate that story.
It's excellent.
Had some of that myself and it'sa good lesson as a leader.
pass that on.
Dave Baker (17:49):
not all sunshine and roses.
I've had people I've tried toassist and it didn't go the
right way.
Or I had people I had confidencein to begin with.
And, I was disappointed.
In them and for them in a lot ofways, things go awry.
if you do some of the thingsI've talked about today, it's
always going to turn out for thebetter, it's not, you're going
to have disappointments andpeople who betray your trust I
go back to that circumstance.
I still think about what wouldhave happened to me that day.
Had I gone and they said,thanks, but next it's not all
(18:09):
sunshine and roses.
Randy (18:10):
No sometimes it's people that you pour a lot into they
miss the opportunity and that'stough, but, that's part of
mentoring.
Some work out great, some not sowell, but it's all part of
learning.
if we're thinking about youngleaders establishing themselves,
what basic advice do you havefor people early in their
careers and, wanting to beleaders, but.
just struggling, may not have itfigured out yet.
Dave Baker (18:31):
one piece of advice I'd give is narrow your focus.
I have referral partners.
When I go into a business, Iwant to become a trusted
advisor.
I really want to build trustwith that owner.
as we go through the process, Ihave a narrow focus.
I know my expertise I can askquestions about a number of
things that aren't my expertise.
So if I ask a business owner, doyou have an estate plan?
Do you have a trust in casesomething happens to you?
(18:52):
If that business owner says No,or yes, but it needs to be
revisited.
I have referral partners, CPAs,attorneys, HR professionals,
wealth managers to connect thosebusiness owners to.
when we talk about, do you havea trust or need to revisit it?
The next question will be, canyou recommend an attorney Can
you recommend a new CPA?
my point is we're giving adviceto know what you do well.
(19:13):
Find your niche.
this goes back to hiring peoplesmarter than you You'll never
learn everything.
It's just impossible.
narrowing your focus, you can'tbe an expert in every field.
know what you do well, helppeople there, and develop a
network of referral partners forassistance And I know that's not
always possible and sometimesresources are limited.
Tapping into the genius ofeverybody involving people in
(19:34):
decision making, sharingthoughts so they can give input.
Never be afraid to hearconstructive criticism.
Randy (19:39):
What are your thoughts on being intentional about
building, your personal networkthinking partners, how do you
approach that
Dave Baker (19:47):
Oh, yeah, it's incredibly important.
as a business coach, helping youthink through problems.
I think it's tremendous.
I think it's a great idea.
Get input from as many people asyou can.
That's reasonable.
And people that you trust.
And if you can develop thosecircles of people that you
trust, then you should know thatthey're going to provide you
with information and feedback,which is hopefully logical and
(20:09):
is honest.
Now, as a leader, we knowsometimes that can be lonely,
and sometimes you have to makethe final decision on your own
when you have a leadership team,and you're talking about,
Objectives and rocks.
Sometimes as we call them, yougot to have one person who's
ultimately accountable.
Something has to flow to anindividual that whole,
quarterback, when you get fivequarterbacks on a team, this
doesn't usually work that way.
Yeah, you could havecollaboration, but Eventually,
(20:30):
it has to roll to one person whohas to be accountable for that.
And for young leaders, I thinkthat's a thing that's a very
important to understand, but Iam a big fan of tapping into
other people's input, havingthem provide you with feedback,
having them think thingsthrough, with you.
Randy (20:43):
what's something big, a challenge or something that
you're wanting to accomplish?
that's going to take a big move.
Dave Baker (20:49):
I'll give you two, one business wise and one
personal.
I read an article, about a yearago.
It said your body acceleratesaging at two different ages.
Your body accelerates at age 44.
And age 60, now they came upwith that.
I don't know, but that's what itsaid.
Randy (21:02):
passed both
Dave Baker (21:03):
This past spring, I got on the scales and thought,
this is not good.
I'm getting close to 60.
I thought I've got to make achange I'm not healthy.
I want my 60s to be productive.
I want my seventies to beproductive.
I want to be around to help mykids.
I want to be around for my wife.
So I went on that weight lossthing no fanfare.
I didn't really tell anybody.
I didn't say I didn't tell anyfriends or my wife I was going
to do it.
I just started and, lost about30 pounds.
it took time.
(21:23):
the challenge now is keeping itoff and maintaining that healthy
lifestyle.
That's important to me.
a friend says nothing tastes asgood as thin feels.
Making the decision to get upevery day and to focus on things
to eat as well as I can toexercise The other big challenge
is to grow my business.
I've set a revenue goal but moreimportant a customer goal I want
to take on seven to nine moreclients in addition to what I
(21:45):
have now, because I feel that'sthe number with whom I can work
effectively.
Sometimes I'll work with acustomer or a client for maybe a
year, maybe, year and a half.
Some I might only do a couple ofthings for, and then phase out
quickly, my goal, this year isto do that with, seven to nine
more clients I'm very excitedabout this workshop.
for the St.
Charles job center, in March.
And I'm hoping that may be away, if that goes very well,
that could be something that.
I can do and bring a talent toin a way that I can engage and
(22:07):
volunteer and help other people.
when you retire after a careerin a leadership role, staying
relevant can be, on your mind.
I hope that I'm doing that formyself in a positive way, but I
think.
I still feel I have a lot togive.
the challenge is how do I dothat effectively?
How do I do that and bide my ownpersonal time with other time
and come up with opportunitiesto give my talents to other
(22:30):
people in a way that'sProductive for both them and for
me,
Randy (22:33):
Dave, thank you so much
Dave Baker (22:34):
Randy, anytime, man.
This was great.
Loved it.
Nancy (22:36):
Thanks for joining us on Lead, Learn, Laugh, Grow.
If you enjoyed today's episode,be sure to follow wherever you
get your podcasts and share itwith a friend who's passionate
about growth.
Connect with me on LinkedIn orvisit rmleadership.
com to continue your leadershipjourney.
Until next time, keep growing.
Today on the Lead, Learn, Laugh, Grow podcast, we have
(00:02):
Dave Baker, a certified exitplanning advisor in St.
Louis, Missouri, shares hisjourney from a public education
career to helping smallbusinesses scale and transition
successfully.
With a background as an educatorand administrator, Baker
leverages his experience toadvise businesses on enhancing
their value and preparing forexits.
Or generational transfers.
He discusses the importance ofcollaboration, human and
(00:23):
cultural capital, and personalleadership philosophies.
Baker also reflects on hisentrepreneurial influence,
personal health goals, and thesignificance of building trust
and providing constructivefeedback in business and
education.
Up next is Nancy to introduceour podcast host.
Nancy (00:38):
Welcome to Lead, Learn, Laugh, Grow, the podcast where
leadership, learning, andlaughter come together to fuel
personal and professionalgrowth.
I'm Nancy, and I have theabsolute pleasure of introducing
today's host.
Someone who has spent his careerleading, inspiring, and
developing others.
He's a seasoned educationleader, consultant, speaker, and
executive coach, with abackground that spans education,
(00:58):
business, and even the military.
As a former chief operationsofficer of a major school
district, a career and technicaleducation innovator, and now the
creator of Results Matter LeaderDevelopment, he's been at the
forefront of leadership andinfluence for decades.
But that's not all.
He's also a John MaxwellCertified Executive Director, a
National Keynote Speaker, andthe driving force behind this
very podcast.
His passion?
(01:19):
Helping you lead boldly, learncontinuously, laugh often, and
grow relentlessly.
So without further ado, let'sdive into today's episode with
our host, Randy Gooch.
Randy (01:27):
Thank you so much, Nancy.
Hey, today we've got a greatguest, Dave Baker, and I've
known Dave for a while workingin career and technical
education in He's since retiredfrom public education and off
doing a really coolentrepreneurial part of his
career, and he's going to sharewith us some things that he's
learned in his leadershipjourney, and we're going to
learn from him and have somegreat discussion.
(01:48):
Dave, introduce yourself.
Dave Baker (01:51):
Dave Baker.
I live here in St.
Louis, Missouri, South County,and my current role is a
Certified Exit Planning Advisorthrough the Exit Planning
Institute.
I work with small.
privately held family ownedcompanies within about a 50 mile
radius my intent is to helpbusinesses scale up, accelerate
the value of their business,potentially in anticipation of
selling the business ortransferring it to the next
(02:12):
generation Only 30 to 35 percentof family owned businesses make
it from a first generation to asecond generation.
So the work I do hopefully helpsthose companies, those
businesses accelerate the value,make them better workplaces,
make them more valuable, makefamily members want.
possibly to be part of that.
Or if the owner decides to sellto private equity or somebody
else to make that business asvaluable as possible so the
(02:33):
owner exits positively.
We talk to owners that everybodyexits their business.
Hopefully you'll do itvertically and not horizontally,
make yourself redundant so yourbusiness grows in value.
owners to be able to takeadvantage of what they've built.
enjoy the fruits of labor.
take vacations.
play golf, volunteer thebusiness should not only run
well while you're gone, itshould thrive and grow.
We focus on human capital,structural capital.
(02:54):
customer capital and culturalcapital and the cultural capital
is typically the one we work onlast.
It's more difficult than therest to have that good
functioning, relationalsituation between your employees
and your customers.
People want to be there.
People want to be around yourbusiness.
You want to retain thoseemployees.
You want to retain thosecustomers.
So that's really the heart ofwhat we do.
Those four intangible capitals.
Randy (03:15):
That's really exciting.
I know when I talked with youearlier this fall, you bring a
lot of excitement to this isn'tyour first career.
Tell me what led you up to beable to do this, and I know this
is after a retirement for, from,public education.
Tell me a little bit about thatpath that brought you here,
Dave Baker (03:30):
I started in public education in 1989 and retired
in, the summer of 2020.
I spent 31 years in publiceducation, with three districts,
Farmington, Missouri, Lindberghschool district in South County,
and the special school districtof St.
Louis County.
I spent eight years in theclassroom and as a football
coach, I spent nine years in theclassroom, 16 years as a
assistant principal andprincipal.
six years as an assistantsuperintendent, the last 18
(03:51):
years with the special schooldistrict serves all of the other
districts in St.
Louis County and serve studentsand their families who have
special needs, learningdisabilities, things like that.
What a lot of people do not knowis that the Special School
District of St.
Louis County has about 7 percentof its workforce and budget goes
to career and technicaleducation.
Operating two high schools inthe nineties, I also worked for
a family business.
part time while in education,got my, MBA and that business,
(04:13):
eventually liquidatedsuccessfully.
I went back into education, witha very different perspective.
One, I went back with thatbusiness degree and the other, I
went back in this idea that Ireally liked business, but I
also appreciated being ineducation.
When I retired, I thought Istill want to do something.
I was fairly young, I wanted todo something that really
involved both.
So I embarked on this journey ofwhat can I do to be a coach?
Randy (04:33):
That's awesome.
you've started in education,went to business, came back to
education, you always brought anentrepreneurial edge to
education and From what I'munderstanding of what you're
doing now, you're bringing backan educational component into
this business, Talk about thatentrepreneurial influence and
how it probably made you better,made your students better, in
(04:54):
the educational setting.
And then talk about thateducational piece and how it
fits so nicely into what you'redoing now in helping, businesses
transition.
Dave Baker (05:02):
Yeah, the entrepreneurial piece.
I've always felt that way Thefamily business.
my uncle took over in the earlyeighties.
He came back from Vietnam.
started working for the company.
bought it He was anentrepreneur.
He grew that business.
went in different directions.
added components when you workwith students, especially in
career and technical education Alot of those kids come in
comprehensive high schools hadPart time jobs When we went to
the career and technicalschools, I'm going to bet we
probably had 65 to 80 percent ofthose kids who held part time
(05:23):
jobs, bought their own vehicles,paid their own insurance and a
lot of their own things.
I saw that as being anentrepreneur.
I'm guiding where I go.
I want to take care of my ownthings.
be in charge of my future afterthe nation at risk report in the
eighties, we had this push foreverybody going to college and
we saw this.
reduction of career andtechnical education shop classes
and home economics we pushedkids into college, whether they
were a good match or not.
I saw career and tech kids askids who said, I want to be in
(05:45):
charge of what I do.
And I think a lot of themcarried that over.
even after they graduated.
I how many of those kids didstart their own business?
I saw them as beingentrepreneurs.
I learned as much from them asthey learned from me.
Randy (05:56):
Dave, I really like that approach that you learn so much
from them from anentrepreneurial standpoint.
I think sometimes classroomteachers, uh, get in a mode
where they think they're on thehook for all the learning, and a
lot of that learning does notcome back the other way.
Great approach.
Dave Baker (06:10):
Small business owners are people I have great
respect for.
The risk sleepless nights,meeting payroll, dealing with
vendors customers, governmentregulations, at the state level
and oftentimes at the federallevel.
It is a 24 hour, seven day aweek, 365 day a year job when
you own a small business andsmall business owners take on
the responsibility of the peoplewho work for them.
(06:30):
They take on theresponsibilities of their
families.
I see those that they are veryconcerned.
involved in the lives of thosepeople.
And if something goes wrong,they take that very personally.
It keeps them up at night.
many don't have time or abilityto think about it.
They're so involved in the dayto day operation.
as a business coach, what Ibring to businesses, is
objectivity.
Randy (06:49):
Absolutely.
As you've talked about ineducation, we do much
collaboration, particularly inCareer and Ed, we're not just
collaborating within the wallsof a school, we're developing
Business partnerships, economic,development workforce
development.
we're always looking to lobbyand garner political support for
the work were doing.
collaboration is key Tell meabout your leadership journey
(07:09):
and what role collaboration hasplayed.
Dave Baker (07:12):
If you're in a leadership position, you're
going to get credit foreverything that happens well and
for everything that goes wrong.
one key element of leadership ispresence.
That's changed.
with social media and becomingvirtual But I still think people
like human contact.
as a business owner, buildingadministrator and central office
administrator, people need tosee you.
They need to know you'reinvolved.
That is incredibly important tome.
(07:34):
One of the other things that Ithink is important is this idea
of, because everything flows apill, is you can self deprecate
often it works to youradvantage.
There's no need to take creditfor everything.
Push that credit off to otherpeople with whom you
collaborated or who wereinvolved because people who
understand success know you'reresponsible.
one of the things I did best asan administrator was hire.
I hired good people.
(07:54):
Most of them, I'd say maybe allof them, smarter than me, better
read than I was.
They were just better.
They were just better at so manydifferent things.
I know an assistant principalthat I hired better at me than
everything.
I never wanted to be thesmartest person in the room.
I always thought, I need to hireup.
I married up with my wife and Ithink I hired up.
And I think that's incrediblyimportant that you're always
looking for those people.
Who can challenge you and fromwhom you can learn, and then as
(08:16):
that leader, you can give thatobjective feedback Are you doing
what you said You told me wecould do this.
You told me as this person thatI hired to bring in this room,
that you could bring about thischange, be an agent of this.
supervisor or business owner,I'm holding you accountable
That's why I hired you.
I want to challenge that.
I want to give you support andbe there for you, but I want to
keep you on track.
Constant feedback is somethingleadership misses small business
(08:37):
owners struggle to give Annualfeedback, let alone semi annual
feedback.
We encourage owners to beproviding informal feedback all
the time.
As a building administrator,when you give feedback and have
constructive conversations.
They need to be immediate.
pertinent, and specific.
If you're giving annual feedbackevery December, you're always
looking backward.
So you may be going back andtalking about things that
happened in the previous winterand the spring.
(08:58):
when providing feedback, startwith a positive note.
this is what I noticed that youwere doing well and be specific.
You're really tearing this up.
You're doing a great job withthis.
Then move into deficit.
there are a few things I believeyou can improve some things you
probably have noticed also.
this is what I want you to focuson moving forward.
We told you the positive.
We told you the deficit.
let's talk about the opportunityfor growth.
How do you fix deficits?
(09:18):
How do you get better at that?
as a building administrator incareer and technical education,
we were bringing in people, youand I were hiring people who
were oftentimes coming into asecond or third career.
They'd already had 10, 15, 20years in other professions,
bringing knowledge andenthusiasm The problem for many
of them is how do you manage aclass?
How do you engage teenagers?
if we left them on their own forthat, we probably get what we
(09:42):
expected and it won't be verygood.
when you talk to someone aboutthat deficit that you're seeing,
you've got to give them guidanceand leadership and tell them how
to engage in that opportunity toget better.
And that's where coaching comesin.
Be self deprecating.
Push the credit for things offto other people.
It eventually is going to comeback to you.
There's no question about it.
Be present.
Let people know you're there.
Not only, when times are good,but also when times you're bad,
(10:05):
I'm going to support you.
I won't abandon you.
If you do something that iswrong or you make a mistake,
We're going to have to deal withthat.
But I will be here with you.
I will not abandon you.
Randy (10:13):
Absolutely.
giving credit back to people.
I can think of a specific timewhen, I decided to be super
intentional about that.
I was having good success.
climbing the ladder, that switchcame on, it flipped.
And I really started focusing onhow can I make others better?
How can I help their ladder?
hold their ladder at theconference this fall, it was
(10:34):
gratifying because I saw peopleI had involvement with and been
able to help and watch themcontinue to grow.
it was revealed how smart theyare.
I always get excited about thatconference the progress made, is
about the high quality of peopledistricts have hired, their
understanding of the mission Ishare your feeling about needing
personal contact, some thinkalmost anything can be handled
(10:55):
in an email.
I've never been able to, writeeloquently or convey my thoughts
well.
it's very gratifying when you'reon the ground Obviously,
leaders, no matter what yourrole, what sector you're in,
decision making is a key.
Talk about how you makedecisions, how you coach people,
to make sound decisions.
Young leaders grapple with that
Dave Baker (11:12):
There's an adage.
you'll never make the sale ifyou don't ask the customer to
commit oftentimes and I'm goingto approach this from the small
business side and talking withsmall business owners.
Oftentimes they make decisionswhen they're the only one in the
room.
They don't.
There's a book out there calledmultipliers.
And one of the things inmultipliers talks about tapping
into the genius of everybody inyour company.
(11:33):
This idea that if you don't getinput from people, if you don't
draw things out there may bepeople who have a solution, they
know how to fix the problemyou're dealing with in your
business.
They have a solution to it.
If you don't ask, you're nevergoing to know if you're a
building administrator andyou're making decisions about
something that's going to impacttwo teachers in a subject area
or a part of the building, Ican't imagine making that
decision without involving thosepeople getting their perspective
(11:55):
and asking for their feedback.
There's a book by PatrickLincioni called the five
dysfunctions of a team.
at the bottom is trust.
trust means different things todifferent people.
When I talk to small businessowners, trust is that idea that
I can bring something to you andregardless of whether it's well
received, it's not going to beheld against me.
(12:16):
if we build trust amongemployees and leadership we can
engage in healthy conflict.
I can put my idea on the tableand we can vet that idea.
Now, hopefully what you're goingto get from me is Commitment
because I see people listen tome.
People asked my opinion.
People valued what I had to say.
They didn't go with my idea, butthat's okay, next time I have an
idea.
I'll feel comfortable bringingthat forward.
And at some point.
(12:36):
leadership is bringing the mostout of people.
Randy (12:38):
Talk about success, talk about failure, and why both are
so important.
Dave Baker (12:43):
I've had more failure than success.
we learn from failures much morethan successes.
Now, I think when you'reyounger, oftentimes what you
think about in success is.
How I was elevated, how I gotrecognition, how it was, the
spotlight was on me or I won anaward.
I was the most valuable player.
my team won and I was a big partof that.
I kicked the winning field goal.
But as we get older, we reflect,for me, I see the successes as
(13:07):
this idea of how I positivelyimpacted people.
people will forget what you did.
what you said.
but never how you made themfeel.
that for me is truly success.
When you look back and I do takepride in, I have some people
that, I was the principal in thebuilding for them and I have
engagement with them, with someother organizations.
And it does make me feel goodwhen they make a positive
comment that, Dave was there forus.
(13:28):
He was always present.
We always felt supported by him.
That's what brings me success.
not winning an award or gettinga promotion.
It's knowing I help people feelbetter about themselves, their
career, help them move up.
And as far as small businessesthat's the key.
It's not landing necessarily anew client.
Although I enjoy that.
It's not, if you make some extramoney, it's not that it's
really, when you walk away do Ifeel that small business owner
(13:48):
got beyond a hurdle.
That's what I see as success.
Randy (13:51):
One of my teachers in leadership is John Maxwell I was
at a conference with him talkingabout success and failure being
cousins, you're going to gothrough life with both.
The failure is there.
To keep you humble and thesuccess is there to build enough
confidence for you to take onbigger things.
it's true.
We get it all as leaders.
I've had far more failures thansuccess, we learn so much.
Dave Baker (14:12):
I think, as leaders, oftentimes we're protectors,
I'll try to shield you.
And although I think that's agood instinct.
I think oftentimes it's thewrong way to look at it.
You have to expose people tothings.
You have to let them experiencethings for themselves, get them
involved.
You mentioned an author.
Simon Sinek.
Simon Sinek is great aboutfinding your why.
Why do you do this?
Why be involved What's importantto you?
he's a great resource.
Randy (14:29):
You mentioned Simon Sinek, who are some people that
have influenced you and, thatyou stand on the shoulders of at
this point in your leadershipjourney, but those that were
supporting you, how did theyinfluence you
Dave Baker (14:39):
Let me tell a quick story if that's okay.
Back in 2002, 2003.
I'd taken a new position as abuilding principal, and went
through a very difficult time.
there every day.
It was showing up physically,but mentally, emotionally, just
didn't know if I could do thejob.
after going through this, I justdidn't know I remember, several
months into this, I get a callfrom, my direct, superior who
says, I need to see you in myoffice today at, three o'clock.
clear the buses and then cometomorrow.
(15:00):
I felt a bit of relief.
I thought I knew what wascoming.
That was close to contract timefor the next year.
I thought They're going to tellme they're going in a different
direction.
I'm okay with that because Idon't know if I could do this
anyway.
So I go around the corner andwalk into this gentleman's
office don't see out of myperipheral vision.
Dr.
Peter Cackers, superintendent ofspecial school district.
Peter was a Great mentor for me.
Hard nose guy who came out ofNew York public school system
and came to Missouri and specialschool district at just the
(15:21):
right time in the late nineties.
as I'm focusing on my, directsuperior, all of a sudden the
door closes behind me.
And I looked to my left and Isee Dr.
Kakris.
And I'm thinking, wow, they'renot going to pull any punches
It's done.
Just the director, but thesuperintendent, they're going to
tell me you are not our guy.
we are going in a differentdirection.
Dr.
Kakris put his hand on myshoulder and said, you are our
guy.
We are behind you all the way.
(15:42):
Anything you need.
We are here for you.
then he opened the door andwalked out.
I got better from that point on.
I was there the next day, anhour early and I was moving and
shaken.
I went through that difficulttime, which eventually resolved
that Made all the difference itwas a tipping point I was going
to have a contract non renewedto 10 seconds of somebody that I
highly respected said, we'rebehind you, whatever you need.
(16:05):
Made all the difference to me.
When I worked in this smallbusiness with my uncle, he was
tremendous influence on me.
He's also passed away, but agreat guy.
My mother, incredible person.
My mother became a financialplanner.
I think back in 1976 76 77 backat a time when There weren't
many financial planners as awoman, she was one of just a few
across the entire country.
(16:26):
She became one of the mostsuccessful financial planners in
Missouri my father.
Who just has an incrediblemechanical mind was always
inspiration for me in the careerand technical space because my
dad would have not been a goodfit for college, but my dad is
the kind of person who can walkin and he can look at a, he can
look at a piece of furniture andgo, yeah, I can build that.
My wife, incredibly intelligentworks in workforce development
and, apprenticeships she's muchsmarter than I am.
(16:46):
I learn a great deal from herand, appreciate, the perspective
that she provides to me.
There's a gentleman herelocally, Shep Hyken, who I've
been introduced to recently, whois all about customer service.
his book is, an amazingexperience for every customer.
Randy (16:56):
Yeah, talking about the message that superintendent sent
you.
Hand on your shoulder.
confidence in you when youdidn't have the confidence.
I think back to my militarycareer, young first professional
job, in a harsh environment.
I worked for a Colonel and hewas constantly blowing me up
more positively.
(17:18):
Then I knew that I was capableof doing at the time, but adding
that confidence.
every time we'd be in asituation, it'd be difficult.
his comment was, Gooch, you cando that.
You can handle anything.
Go do it.
In my head, I'm thinking, Idon't know how but after a while
you start thinking, I can figureit out.
then it becomes, yeah, you arethat go to guy.
it puts intentionality and vigorinto your step You like to hear
(17:39):
somebody's got your back.
that you are the one they seeas, a solution to issues I
really appreciate that story.
It's excellent.
Had some of that myself and it'sa good lesson as a leader.
pass that on.
Dave Baker (17:49):
not all sunshine and roses.
I've had people I've tried toassist and it didn't go the
right way.
Or I had people I had confidencein to begin with.
And, I was disappointed.
In them and for them in a lot ofways, things go awry.
if you do some of the thingsI've talked about today, it's
always going to turn out for thebetter, it's not, you're going
to have disappointments andpeople who betray your trust I
go back to that circumstance.
I still think about what wouldhave happened to me that day.
Had I gone and they said,thanks, but next it's not all
(18:09):
sunshine and roses.
Randy (18:10):
No sometimes it's people that you pour a lot into they
miss the opportunity and that'stough, but, that's part of
mentoring.
Some work out great, some not sowell, but it's all part of
learning.
if we're thinking about youngleaders establishing themselves,
what basic advice do you havefor people early in their
careers and, wanting to beleaders, but.
just struggling, may not have itfigured out yet.
Dave Baker (18:31):
one piece of advice I'd give is narrow your focus.
I have referral partners.
When I go into a business, Iwant to become a trusted
advisor.
I really want to build trustwith that owner.
as we go through the process, Ihave a narrow focus.
I know my expertise I can askquestions about a number of
things that aren't my expertise.
So if I ask a business owner, doyou have an estate plan?
Do you have a trust in casesomething happens to you?
(18:52):
If that business owner says No,or yes, but it needs to be
revisited.
I have referral partners, CPAs,attorneys, HR professionals,
wealth managers to connect thosebusiness owners to.
when we talk about, do you havea trust or need to revisit it?
The next question will be, canyou recommend an attorney Can
you recommend a new CPA?
my point is we're giving adviceto know what you do well.
(19:13):
Find your niche.
this goes back to hiring peoplesmarter than you You'll never
learn everything.
It's just impossible.
narrowing your focus, you can'tbe an expert in every field.
know what you do well, helppeople there, and develop a
network of referral partners forassistance And I know that's not
always possible and sometimesresources are limited.
Tapping into the genius ofeverybody involving people in
(19:34):
decision making, sharingthoughts so they can give input.
Never be afraid to hearconstructive criticism.
Randy (19:39):
What are your thoughts on being intentional about
building, your personal networkthinking partners, how do you
approach that
Dave Baker (19:47):
Oh, yeah, it's incredibly important.
as a business coach, helping youthink through problems.
I think it's tremendous.
I think it's a great idea.
Get input from as many people asyou can.
That's reasonable.
And people that you trust.
And if you can develop thosecircles of people that you
trust, then you should know thatthey're going to provide you
with information and feedback,which is hopefully logical and
(20:09):
is honest.
Now, as a leader, we knowsometimes that can be lonely,
and sometimes you have to makethe final decision on your own
when you have a leadership team,and you're talking about,
Objectives and rocks.
Sometimes as we call them, yougot to have one person who's
ultimately accountable.
Something has to flow to anindividual that whole,
quarterback, when you get fivequarterbacks on a team, this
doesn't usually work that way.
Yeah, you could havecollaboration, but Eventually,
(20:30):
it has to roll to one person whohas to be accountable for that.
And for young leaders, I thinkthat's a thing that's a very
important to understand, but Iam a big fan of tapping into
other people's input, havingthem provide you with feedback,
having them think thingsthrough, with you.
Randy (20:43):
what's something big, a challenge or something that
you're wanting to accomplish?
that's going to take a big move.
Dave Baker (20:49):
I'll give you two, one business wise and one
personal.
I read an article, about a yearago.
It said your body acceleratesaging at two different ages.
Your body accelerates at age 44.
And age 60, now they came upwith that.
I don't know, but that's what itsaid.
Randy (21:02):
passed both
Dave Baker (21:03):
This past spring, I got on the scales and thought,
this is not good.
I'm getting close to 60.
I thought I've got to make achange I'm not healthy.
I want my 60s to be productive.
I want my seventies to beproductive.
I want to be around to help mykids.
I want to be around for my wife.
So I went on that weight lossthing no fanfare.
I didn't really tell anybody.
I didn't say I didn't tell anyfriends or my wife I was going
to do it.
I just started and, lost about30 pounds.
it took time.
(21:23):
the challenge now is keeping itoff and maintaining that healthy
lifestyle.
That's important to me.
a friend says nothing tastes asgood as thin feels.
Making the decision to get upevery day and to focus on things
to eat as well as I can toexercise The other big challenge
is to grow my business.
I've set a revenue goal but moreimportant a customer goal I want
to take on seven to nine moreclients in addition to what I
(21:45):
have now, because I feel that'sthe number with whom I can work
effectively.
Sometimes I'll work with acustomer or a client for maybe a
year, maybe, year and a half.
Some I might only do a couple ofthings for, and then phase out
quickly, my goal, this year isto do that with, seven to nine
more clients I'm very excitedabout this workshop.
for the St.
Charles job center, in March.
And I'm hoping that may be away, if that goes very well,
that could be something that.
I can do and bring a talent toin a way that I can engage and
(22:07):
volunteer and help other people.
when you retire after a careerin a leadership role, staying
relevant can be, on your mind.
I hope that I'm doing that formyself in a positive way, but I
think.
I still feel I have a lot togive.
the challenge is how do I dothat effectively?
How do I do that and bide my ownpersonal time with other time
and come up with opportunitiesto give my talents to other
(22:30):
people in a way that'sProductive for both them and for
me,
Randy (22:33):
Dave, thank you so much
Dave Baker (22:34):
Randy, anytime, man.
This was great.
Loved it.
Nancy (22:36):
Thanks for joining us on Lead, Learn, Laugh, Grow.
If you enjoyed today's episode,be sure to follow wherever you
get your podcasts and share itwith a friend who's passionate
about growth.
Connect with me on LinkedIn orvisit rmleadership.
com to continue your leadershipjourney.
Until next time, keep growing.
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