April 15, 2025 • 26 mins
Kirk Burnett's journey from broken to bold reveals the transformative power of crucible moments in leadership development. When Kirk first joined Wildman Business Group, he described himself as directionless—focused on partying and self-gratification with no real compass for his life. What he encountered at Wildman was a culture unlike anything he'd experienced before, centered on authentic faith and genuine care for others.
The defining crucible that reshaped Kirk's character came through a promotion that thrust him into 80-100 hour workweeks alongside his mentor. Rather than viewing this grueling schedule as exploitation, Kirk recognized it as purposeful refinement—separating him from destructive habits while surrounding him with positive influences. What's remarkable about Kirk's story isn't just the intensity of his crucible, but his response to it. Instead of resisting the discomfort, he leaned in completely, becoming voracious in his pursuit of growth through spiritual disciplines and leadership development.
Through company-sponsored mission trips, Kirk's heart was broken by the poverty he witnessed in the Dominican Republic. After several visits, he felt unmistakably called to relocate there permanently with Second Mile Missions. Nine years later, Kirk has created an extraordinary life of purpose—serving the community, mastering Spanish through complete immersion, meeting his wife, and raising two children there.
Kirk's transformation demonstrates what happens when we embrace our crucible moments rather than run from them. His journey from self-centered employee to mission-focused leader shows how periods of intense pressure, when approached with the right mindset, can forge extraordinary character and purpose. Whether you're currently in your own crucible or emerging from one, this conversation offers powerful insight into how our most challenging seasons often prepare us for our greatest calling.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:03):
This is the Leaders on Fire podcast.
On this show, we'll be invitingguests in to talk about
crucible moments in their livesand unpack how it developed
character and perseverance andhow they emerged as leaders on
fire.
We hope that this podcast is anencouragement and an
inspiration to you.
Today we have with us KirkBurnett, who's a good friend of
(00:26):
mine, and we're excited to hearabout his story and the crucible
moments in his life.
Let's welcome Kirk to the show.
Kirk, welcome to the Leaders onFire podcast man.
Super excited to have you here.
Thanks, I'm super excited to behere.
So, kirk, we've been friends forlet's see, I guess it would be
(00:50):
12 years or so.
I first met you in 2013, whenyou came to work at Wildman.
We were both in our strapping20s and you were a few years
younger than me, I think, butnevertheless we became good
friends.
We worked a lot together, butthat's how I got to know you.
So what do you remember aboutthat?
Speaker 2 (01:09):
Well, what I remember is you had come in right after
I'd started and come back, andyou started leading my division
and quickly promoted me into amanagement position and I went
from working 40 hours as anhourly employee to working 80 to
100 hours as a salary employee.
Speaker 1 (01:30):
Is that my fault or your fault?
Speaker 2 (01:32):
I think it was a little bit of both of our faults
, but you led the way for it.
Speaker 1 (01:37):
Okay, tell us about your family.
Are you married?
You got kids?
What's going on in life?
Speaker 2 (01:40):
Yeah, so I'm married to an amazing, beautiful
Dominican named Orlina and Ihave a awesome three-year-old
daughter and a beautifulthree-year-old boy.
Speaker 1 (01:52):
Awesome man, so let's fan the flame.
I want to know a little bitmore about.
You said you've married aDominican wife.
I'm curious.
Of course I know your story,but for those listening, how did
you end up in the Dominican ordid you find your wife here in
America?
So why don't you tell a littleabout your story of how did you
get there and what was thatprocess like?
Speaker 2 (02:15):
Yeah, so I moved down there with Second Mile Missions
nine years ago to serve fulltime down there with them and I
met my wife down there at thechurch and ironically I didn't
speak much Spanish and shedidn't speak much English.
But we connected pretty earlyon after I moved down and after
(02:37):
about a year, year and a half,we'd become friends and started
dating.
I knew that she was the onethat God chose for me.
Speaker 1 (02:45):
So did you go down there on vacation?
I mean, did you go down saying,hey, I'm going to find myself a
wife?
Like what in the world led youto the Dominican Republic?
Speaker 2 (02:53):
Well, as you know, Wildman Business Group was a
very close and still is a veryclose partner Second Mile
Missions and they take multipletrips down there with their
employees to serve down thereand just show them what God's
doing around the world.
And so I went down there on onemission trip the first time and
I saw the school that SecondMile Missions had and I saw the
(03:17):
area that the kids came from andit just broke my heart and I
wanted to do more, broke myheart and I wanted to do more
and I came back and I sponsoreda kid, went back on a second
mission trip with WildmanBusiness Group again I felt the
same thing and then on the thirdone I went was with the founder
(03:38):
, Rod and Nancy and their family, and I felt God called me to do
more.
So I talked to him aboutserving full-time with them.
Speaker 1 (03:47):
Man, that's awesome.
So you said it broke your heart.
So what was that experiencelike when you were down there
and what you saw broke yourheart?
I mean, can you recall some ofthe feelings or emotions and
what compelled you?
Speaker 2 (04:00):
It serves a rather impoverished area of kids and
the school is amazing.
It's bright, the kids arerunning around happy.
But then when we went into thevillage the kids were still
running around happy, but theywere running around in dirt
piles and trash piles and thelevel of poverty that I'd just
(04:21):
never seen before just broke myheart, and almost the lack of
hope that it seemed that a lotof the people there had just
broke my heart and I just knewthat God was calling us to do
more, not just in the UnitedStates but out in the world.
Speaker 1 (04:40):
Yeah, that's great.
So now that we've warmed up alittle bit, let's enter the
crucible, and I really want toknow about a crucible moment or
season in your life,particularly how you went from
coming in to Wildman and fromwhat I remember, you were
somewhat broken and lostpursuing things of the world and
(05:03):
didn't really have a compass inyour life to you were using
language of God, was calling meto the Dominican and clearly you
have a faith today and you wentthere to serve.
So what happened?
How did it go from where youwere to today and what's been
going on the last several yearssince you've been serving down
there, and what was a cruciblemoment that helped shape some of
(05:25):
those things?
Speaker 2 (05:27):
Well, when I started at Wildman, as you said, I was
broken and lost.
I was just partying a lot, very, very self-serving, everything
that, all the decisions I wasmaking, everything I was doing,
and I had moved to Wildmanbecause the job I was at before
I just felt like there was noroom for advancement.
So I moved to Wildman, thinkingthat maybe there was an
(05:49):
opportunity there.
And not, soon after I got there, you had just moved back from
Papua New Guinea, became my bossand as I was there I just felt
the culture that was there wasdifferent than any culture I'd
ever felt outside of anywhere,outside in my friends' groups,
(06:10):
anything I'd ever seen before,and the love that you guys had
for Jesus and the love that youshowed others was just different
.
And I started just gettingpulled in by the Lord.
And I remember trying to openmy Bible and read for a while
(06:31):
and it was just confusing, itwas hard to read.
So I came to you and I don'tremember the exact conversation,
but I'd asked you how to readthe Bible or something and you
took me out to lunch and wetalked.
You went through creation ofChrist in like a half an hour
(06:51):
and with all the details.
And then I just realized that Ijust needed to love the Lord and
that there was more for me andthat God had more for me than
(07:12):
just a selfish life that I wasliving.
As far as my crucible moment,my crucible moment probably
looks different than a lot ofothers as far as being in the
fire and being refined.
Once I took on the managementposition that you hired me into
or promoted me to, we startedworking 80 to 100 hours, you and
(07:34):
I side by side, coming in at 4,4.30 in the morning, sometimes
leaving at 7, 8 at night.
And that was really my cruciblemoment.
And looking back there, I knowGod had a purpose for me and the
reason that I was working thatmuch, and it was just to pull me
away from the things, theworldly things that I was doing,
(07:56):
and the partying, and just tokeep me in good company.
And so as we were doing that, Iwas being transformed by you,
by Jesus reading books, readingscripture, going to church and
just kind of growing in my faith.
Speaker 1 (08:18):
So yeah, we were in the trenches together.
I suppose you might say I wasin that crucible with you, but I
might have also had my hand onthe dial of the heat, because I
feel somewhat responsible forthe heat.
And it's interesting when we'releading people and we know that
somebody is in a crucible typeseason and we can actually
(08:42):
participate in some level ofdiscomfort, knowing that it's
for their own benefit.
You know and we were sharingsome stories a little bit before
this that you know thischaracter, refinement and grit
and resiliency.
It is developed in the crucible.
There's just no other way toget it.
I mean you can't staycomfortable your entire life and
(09:04):
say I've got grit andresiliency and perseverance.
It's in those hard momentswhere I've got grit and
resiliency and perseverance.
It's in those hard momentswhere you've got to dig deep and
there is a purpose and a whybehind that and we were
compelled by something.
And we know that part of it waswe want to do a good job, we
were trying to grow a business.
The other part of it was thereare some camaraderie in the
crucible together.
And the other part of it is webelieved in the organization and
(09:26):
that it had a purpose and thatwe were serving that purpose.
So there was multiple reasonsfor that.
But as we look at that time inthe crucible, that it melts away
the impurities and it createsthis process of refinement, how
long, if you were to say atimeframe how long do you feel
that lasted?
I mean, you came into Wildmanand you were pretty tight.
(09:49):
You weren't real open.
I just remember you were kindof in your cube and you were
working and you were to yourselfand kind of like with some
other people.
Usually I'm able to identifypotential and opportunities like
, okay, I think there's more inthis guy, let's tap into this
(10:09):
and let's apply some heat andsee what he's made of.
And, man, you actuallyblossomed, like you grew a ton.
The heat actually crackedeverything open.
You became vulnerable.
You allowed people to shepherdyou and you grew.
And it was because of that heat.
If mean, if I'd have just leftyou in that cube, you might've
(10:30):
died a slow death there and whoknows where you'd be today, you
know.
But you said I can do more.
And we believed not just me,but others around you believed
that you could do more.
And so you enter this crucible.
How long would you say that youfelt maybe this crucible
tension, that said, okay, nowyou're kind of refined and
(10:53):
moving out of it.
What does that look like?
What did that look like?
Speaker 2 (10:57):
So the crucible moment probably lasted between
six months to a year and in thattime you and I were working
side by side, doing 80 to 100hour work weeks on a pretty
regular basis, and you were justreally leading me and
empowering me to do more, notfor the company but for God.
(11:20):
And you were feeding me books.
I was reading books, we weretalking about scripture, we were
texting during quiet time,holding each other accountable
with our quiet time.
We were working out together,exercising together, and you
were just in the trenches withme the whole time.
(11:40):
During that time, and afterabout maybe a year or so of you
just really pouring into me,it's when I felt that I had kind
of moved on from just beingunder you and being able to move
out and go and help others andI started volunteering at the
(12:05):
church with the youth group anddoing a lot of other things that
you just kind of pushed me outand encouraged me to do and
empowered me to do those things.
Speaker 1 (12:16):
So then, how did that lead to this relocation, if you
will, to the Dominican Republic?
I mean, you're in there, you'rein the grind.
I think we dialed back thething and said, okay, we don't
need to be working this much,it's now gotten unhealthy.
We've worked a lot.
We were in the trenchestogether, we rubbed shoulders,
(12:37):
we were grinding it out, and Ido remember, even if we were at
the office at 4.30, kirk, didyou do your quiet time this
morning?
It's like man, well, what timedo you need me to get up,
however early it takes, right?
Like that's the thing we don'tskip on, no matter how early we
go to work.
We put that time before and Ithink we were encouraging each
other in those disciplines rightand holding each other
accountable.
(12:58):
But talk about how that evolvedinto this awareness that, okay,
there's more, because it camethrough your scripture and your
study and the books you werereading.
I mean I don't want people tomiss that.
Like you were putting in timeat work and growing in
resiliency and grit andperseverance.
But you were also self-studying.
(13:18):
I mean you were a studentaround the clock, you know, I
don't even know if you slept,but you were reading books and
you were studying scripture andyou were growing and it's just
like you took off.
And then at some point youstarted thinking like, okay,
there's more than what I'm doinghere.
And you talk about beingempowered and how I encourage
you to say, yes, there is more.
(13:39):
And as much as I wanted you tostay at Wildman so we could
abuse you and have you work more, out too many hours and not pay
enough Just kidding, but that'sprobably what happened, that we
said, okay, kirk, there is more.
We want you to stay herebecause this is an awesome
company, we're doing awesomethings, but God has more for you
, man, if you want it.
And so at what point did thatstart clicking, all the way to
(14:07):
the point where you said yes andyou hopped on a plane and you
moved to the Dominican Republic.
How did that crucible prepareyou for that?
Because without that cruciblemoment or this season, you
likely wouldn't have been ableto respond to God tapping on
your heart, going Kirk, there'smore out there for you, man,
I've got something else for you.
So kind of talk about thattransition.
Speaker 2 (14:30):
Yeah.
So when I was in the cruciblemoment, that time really helped
define my character and gave methe resilience that I still have
today with working those longhours, doing whatever it took to
make sure that we weresuccessful.
(14:51):
And as far as moving on, you'dbeen discipling me, but, like
you said, I put in a lot of thework myself as well.
I was doing my devotionals, Iwas reading scripture, I was
reading books, but you werealways there along the way to
(15:13):
kind of feed me those as well,which is huge.
And so the more I read, themore books you gave me.
I remember there'd be timesyou'd give me two or three books
on a weekend and I'd come backand I'm like, okay, I'm done,
give me more.
Speaker 1 (15:27):
I remember that I'm like what the heck?
Speaker 2 (15:29):
I remember at first it was more the they like
spoon-fed stuff, the easy readsfor newer Christ followers, and
then it got deeper and towardsthe end it kind of shifted over
into more the mission focus andI think you probably had it was
(15:53):
a little strategic with you butI felt God calling me to do more
and I had.
I told God that I was going todo whatever he put in front of
me If he, whatever it was, I wasgoing to say yes to.
And as you started kind ofshowing me the missions route
(16:14):
and it was something that I'dnever really seen before.
I'd heard about missionariesgoing overseas and things, but I
didn't really know what it wasor ever thought that I would
ever do that or didn't knowanybody other than you that had
done that.
And it just opened my eyes toother opportunities and to
(16:34):
serving people not just in ourown community but out in the
world and other countries.
And Wildman was a big part ofthat, partnering with Second
Mile Missions and providing methat opportunity to go over
there.
And towards the end I reallyfelt God calling me into
(16:55):
missions.
After my last trip down in theDominican Republic I came back
and at that point you kind ofknew that I was kind of looking
to go that route and that Godwas pulling me over towards
missions.
And you said, hey, let's go fora trail run at lunch today.
Tell me about your trip.
(17:17):
And I remember going on the runwith you and I told you.
I said, hey, I think God'scalling me to move over to the
Dominican Republic with SecondMile Missions.
And you just nonchalantly said,okay, well, we'll find your
replacement, we'll get yourreplacement ready.
And I said no, no, whoa, whoa,wait.
I was like we're just talkingabout it right now, that I don't
.
You know we have to make surethere's a position and that this
(17:40):
is something we can do.
And you just said, no, god'salready called you to missions.
You already said yes, whetherit's with Second Mile Missions
or another organization, but youalready told them.
You already said, yes, you'regoing.
And that was when it justclicked for me.
I was like, yeah, you're right,and it just from there.
(18:00):
Thankfully, it worked out withSecond Mile Missions and I was
able to move down and I'm stilldown there.
I met my amazing wife.
We have two amazing kids.
Speaker 1 (18:07):
Man, that's crazy.
So let's see 2017, when did youmove down there?
Speaker 2 (18:14):
2016.
Speaker 1 (18:15):
Oh my gosh, has it been that long.
So you've been down there nineyears, nine years man, nine
years this month.
So kind of just summarize thatnine years, because part of it
was with Second Mile Missions,full-time serving with them, and
then it kind of startedtransitioning into where you're
at now in life and you're stillinvolved with Second Mile
Missions, on the board andplugged in in other ways.
But kind of just give a littlebit of an overview in a few
(18:36):
minutes of what's been in thatnine years.
What was that transition, thatprocess?
Speaker 2 (18:41):
Yeah, so I moved down there and it was almost to the
day nine years to the day, atthe end of January in 2016.
And I didn't know hardly anySpanish, so it was just complete
immersion.
I was went down to help withfinances and I quickly got put
(19:03):
into the school that we havethey.
They let go of the PE teacher,so they put me in PE and had a
kid that was.
He was at school, but he wasalso helping me with the PE
class Because he knew prettydecent English, and so I got put
into that and I worked withSecond Mile full-time for the
(19:27):
first four years and then, onceCOVID hit, there were some
drastic changes with theeducation system.
The school was shut down andthere were some changes going on
in Second Mile and so I decidedto step away from the full-time
ministry with Second Mile.
At the same time, my wife wasstill working full-time with
(19:48):
Second Mile as a social worker,and she still is.
So I continued to volunteer anda year ago they asked me if I
would be on the board, so I nowserve with them on the board.
Speaker 1 (20:03):
Awesome.
Ok, I want to back up just alittle bit.
Surely there was some cruciblemoments.
In fact, I know there wasbecause we stayed in
communication your first sixmonths down there and I remember
helping equip you with justsome cultural adjustment stuff
before you left.
We were kind of talking aboutcultural adjustment and kind of
(20:24):
how to learn a language and thistype of stuff, and you'd
already been studying andlearning Spanish before you left
, but clearly not enough tocommunicate well upon arrival.
So talk a little bit about thiscrucible of culture and
language acquisition and a newenvironment.
Like what was going throughyour head?
Did you ever go?
(20:44):
What did I get myself into?
You were living in this littleit was like the old dorm, right
Like I don't know two bunks orsomething in this little dorm
and little, teeny, tiny.
You can't even call it akitchen.
It had like a sink or somethingand I don't even remember like
one little burner, yeah, and I'mlike dude, what are you eating
every day?
And I don't know, I think itwas rice and chicken or
(21:05):
something was a staple food ormaybe it wasn't even that nice.
So talk a little about thatadjustment and that crucible of
like that first few months, orsix months or so.
Speaker 2 (21:15):
Yeah, like you said, I didn't know hardly any Spanish
.
The culture was new andthankfully I had gone with
several different culturalstudies with you and with WCC
and some of the pastors at WCC,so it wasn't a complete culture
shock when I got down there andI, thankfully, had learned
(21:38):
before I got down there torespect the culture and, despite
what I thought personally thatif it was the culture and it
wasn't biblically wrong, then itwasn't wrong.
It was just the way that theydo things.
So it really helped me.
But yeah, I moved down there ina little tiny little dorm that
(21:59):
was just really set up forshort-term mission trips, with
these rackety bunks and akitchen that had a small
refrigerator and a sink, and Ilived there for six months and I
was just immersed in theculture and the language and it
was for sure a barrier.
Nobody else spoke English, soit was 100% Spanish immersion
(22:22):
and I just did everything Icould to integrate myself in the
church, which was partneredwith Second Mile Missions on
their campus.
So I was involved in the church, going to that church and then
the other church in the littlevillage as much as I could, just
trying to integrate myself intothe community for the first six
(22:44):
months and you know, I knew Godwanted me there and I think
that was kind of the thing thatthat helped me continue to move
forward.
And I was a single man, so Iwas Wild, I had developed that
persistency and the grit sothere was no way I was going to
(23:05):
fail.
But there were some tryingtimes for sure.
Speaker 1 (23:08):
Yeah, I bet I do remember frustrations and
challenges and just theadjustments you know and I think
, yeah, the grit and resiliencyand character you developed in
the crucible certainly helpedyou be prepared to endure that
challenge.
So, just to kind of recap, youknow this crucible experience.
You know we talk about, youknow leaders on fire, this
(23:30):
principle of the missionalleadership triad shepherding,
liberating and empowering and,as you described your experience
at Wildman and the leadershipthat was around you, that your
life was transformed.
You came in broken and throughthat process of the crucible, of
being shepherded in thatenvironment and liberated and
freed from the things that wereholding you in bondage, and then
(23:51):
being empowered to realize thatGod has more for you and then
seeing you go and actually sayyes and relocate to another
country.
And here you are been therenine years.
That's a remarkable story andI'm thankful that you were able
to share that story.
Hopefully that's anencouragement to people that are
listening to this podcast that,even though, while sometimes
(24:12):
and some seasons may be hard, ifyou lean in and Kirk, you
leaned in like you embraced it,you embraced it.
Some people cowered us awayfrom that and they just went out
.
Right, it's too uncomfortable,but there was something inside
of you that you embraced it, youleaned in and you knew that it
was for a greater purpose, evenif you didn't actually know yet.
(24:34):
You just trusted that.
Okay, I'm following this crazyguy, I work for this company
that's doing some great stuff.
I feel like I'm changing in mylife.
I'm sticking with it.
And you just kept feedingyourself and consuming, and so
hopefully that's anencouragement for those that
when you stick through thecrucible and you come out the
other end and you're positionedin this place of empowerment and
(24:54):
you go, ah, I'm a masterpieceand God has prepared good things
for me to do, whether that's inyour current vocation or not is
actually irrelevant.
Whether that's in your hometownwith your family or in another
country is irrelevant, andyou've shown that.
And now your new family is onthe other side of the world and
you've created a new familythere, which is really cool.
(25:16):
So thank you for sharing yourstory and there's no doubt that
you have grown as a leader onfire and that your character has
been refined through thesecrucible moments.
So thank you for beingvulnerable and sharing some of
that story.
Thanks, drew.
Well, thanks for being on theshow.
We appreciate it.
Thanks a lot.
It's been a pleasure.
Thank you for listening totoday's episode.
(25:38):
Perhaps it has prompted apainful memory or challenged you
to reflect on times you were inthe crucible.
Some of you may be in acrucible now, but be encouraged.
Maybe, just maybe, god is usingthis to refine your character
so that you emerge as a leaderon fire.
If today's episode was anencouragement to you, share it
(26:01):
with others who may also findencouragement in the Leaders on
Fire podcast.
So let's go into the world sentout as leaders on fire.
Until next time, take care.
This is the Leaders on Fire podcast.
On this show, we'll be invitingguests in to talk about
crucible moments in their livesand unpack how it developed
character and perseverance andhow they emerged as leaders on
fire.
We hope that this podcast is anencouragement and an
inspiration to you.
Today we have with us KirkBurnett, who's a good friend of
(00:26):
mine, and we're excited to hearabout his story and the crucible
moments in his life.
Let's welcome Kirk to the show.
Kirk, welcome to the Leaders onFire podcast man.
Super excited to have you here.
Thanks, I'm super excited to behere.
So, kirk, we've been friends forlet's see, I guess it would be
(00:50):
12 years or so.
I first met you in 2013, whenyou came to work at Wildman.
We were both in our strapping20s and you were a few years
younger than me, I think, butnevertheless we became good
friends.
We worked a lot together, butthat's how I got to know you.
So what do you remember aboutthat?
Speaker 2 (01:09):
Well, what I remember is you had come in right after
I'd started and come back, andyou started leading my division
and quickly promoted me into amanagement position and I went
from working 40 hours as anhourly employee to working 80 to
100 hours as a salary employee.
Speaker 1 (01:30):
Is that my fault or your fault?
Speaker 2 (01:32):
I think it was a little bit of both of our faults
, but you led the way for it.
Speaker 1 (01:37):
Okay, tell us about your family.
Are you married?
You got kids?
What's going on in life?
Speaker 2 (01:40):
Yeah, so I'm married to an amazing, beautiful
Dominican named Orlina and Ihave a awesome three-year-old
daughter and a beautifulthree-year-old boy.
Speaker 1 (01:52):
Awesome man, so let's fan the flame.
I want to know a little bitmore about.
You said you've married aDominican wife.
I'm curious.
Of course I know your story,but for those listening, how did
you end up in the Dominican ordid you find your wife here in
America?
So why don't you tell a littleabout your story of how did you
get there and what was thatprocess like?
Speaker 2 (02:15):
Yeah, so I moved down there with Second Mile Missions
nine years ago to serve fulltime down there with them and I
met my wife down there at thechurch and ironically I didn't
speak much Spanish and shedidn't speak much English.
But we connected pretty earlyon after I moved down and after
(02:37):
about a year, year and a half,we'd become friends and started
dating.
I knew that she was the onethat God chose for me.
Speaker 1 (02:45):
So did you go down there on vacation?
I mean, did you go down saying,hey, I'm going to find myself a
wife?
Like what in the world led youto the Dominican Republic?
Speaker 2 (02:53):
Well, as you know, Wildman Business Group was a
very close and still is a veryclose partner Second Mile
Missions and they take multipletrips down there with their
employees to serve down thereand just show them what God's
doing around the world.
And so I went down there on onemission trip the first time and
I saw the school that SecondMile Missions had and I saw the
(03:17):
area that the kids came from andit just broke my heart and I
wanted to do more, broke myheart and I wanted to do more
and I came back and I sponsoreda kid, went back on a second
mission trip with WildmanBusiness Group again I felt the
same thing and then on the thirdone I went was with the founder
(03:38):
, Rod and Nancy and their family, and I felt God called me to do
more.
So I talked to him aboutserving full-time with them.
Speaker 1 (03:47):
Man, that's awesome.
So you said it broke your heart.
So what was that experiencelike when you were down there
and what you saw broke yourheart?
I mean, can you recall some ofthe feelings or emotions and
what compelled you?
Speaker 2 (04:00):
It serves a rather impoverished area of kids and
the school is amazing.
It's bright, the kids arerunning around happy.
But then when we went into thevillage the kids were still
running around happy, but theywere running around in dirt
piles and trash piles and thelevel of poverty that I'd just
(04:21):
never seen before just broke myheart, and almost the lack of
hope that it seemed that a lotof the people there had just
broke my heart and I just knewthat God was calling us to do
more, not just in the UnitedStates but out in the world.
Speaker 1 (04:40):
Yeah, that's great.
So now that we've warmed up alittle bit, let's enter the
crucible, and I really want toknow about a crucible moment or
season in your life,particularly how you went from
coming in to Wildman and fromwhat I remember, you were
somewhat broken and lostpursuing things of the world and
(05:03):
didn't really have a compass inyour life to you were using
language of God, was calling meto the Dominican and clearly you
have a faith today and you wentthere to serve.
So what happened?
How did it go from where youwere to today and what's been
going on the last several yearssince you've been serving down
there, and what was a cruciblemoment that helped shape some of
(05:25):
those things?
Speaker 2 (05:27):
Well, when I started at Wildman, as you said, I was
broken and lost.
I was just partying a lot, very, very self-serving, everything
that, all the decisions I wasmaking, everything I was doing,
and I had moved to Wildmanbecause the job I was at before
I just felt like there was noroom for advancement.
So I moved to Wildman, thinkingthat maybe there was an
(05:49):
opportunity there.
And not, soon after I got there, you had just moved back from
Papua New Guinea, became my bossand as I was there I just felt
the culture that was there wasdifferent than any culture I'd
ever felt outside of anywhere,outside in my friends' groups,
(06:10):
anything I'd ever seen before,and the love that you guys had
for Jesus and the love that youshowed others was just different
.
And I started just gettingpulled in by the Lord.
And I remember trying to openmy Bible and read for a while
(06:31):
and it was just confusing, itwas hard to read.
So I came to you and I don'tremember the exact conversation,
but I'd asked you how to readthe Bible or something and you
took me out to lunch and wetalked.
You went through creation ofChrist in like a half an hour
(06:51):
and with all the details.
And then I just realized that Ijust needed to love the Lord and
that there was more for me andthat God had more for me than
(07:12):
just a selfish life that I wasliving.
As far as my crucible moment,my crucible moment probably
looks different than a lot ofothers as far as being in the
fire and being refined.
Once I took on the managementposition that you hired me into
or promoted me to, we startedworking 80 to 100 hours, you and
(07:34):
I side by side, coming in at 4,4.30 in the morning, sometimes
leaving at 7, 8 at night.
And that was really my cruciblemoment.
And looking back there, I knowGod had a purpose for me and the
reason that I was working thatmuch, and it was just to pull me
away from the things, theworldly things that I was doing,
(07:56):
and the partying, and just tokeep me in good company.
And so as we were doing that, Iwas being transformed by you,
by Jesus reading books, readingscripture, going to church and
just kind of growing in my faith.
Speaker 1 (08:18):
So yeah, we were in the trenches together.
I suppose you might say I wasin that crucible with you, but I
might have also had my hand onthe dial of the heat, because I
feel somewhat responsible forthe heat.
And it's interesting when we'releading people and we know that
somebody is in a crucible typeseason and we can actually
(08:42):
participate in some level ofdiscomfort, knowing that it's
for their own benefit.
You know and we were sharingsome stories a little bit before
this that you know thischaracter, refinement and grit
and resiliency.
It is developed in the crucible.
There's just no other way toget it.
I mean you can't staycomfortable your entire life and
(09:04):
say I've got grit andresiliency and perseverance.
It's in those hard momentswhere I've got grit and
resiliency and perseverance.
It's in those hard momentswhere you've got to dig deep and
there is a purpose and a whybehind that and we were
compelled by something.
And we know that part of it waswe want to do a good job, we
were trying to grow a business.
The other part of it was thereare some camaraderie in the
crucible together.
And the other part of it is webelieved in the organization and
(09:26):
that it had a purpose and thatwe were serving that purpose.
So there was multiple reasonsfor that.
But as we look at that time inthe crucible, that it melts away
the impurities and it createsthis process of refinement, how
long, if you were to say atimeframe how long do you feel
that lasted?
I mean, you came into Wildmanand you were pretty tight.
(09:49):
You weren't real open.
I just remember you were kindof in your cube and you were
working and you were to yourselfand kind of like with some
other people.
Usually I'm able to identifypotential and opportunities like
, okay, I think there's more inthis guy, let's tap into this
(10:09):
and let's apply some heat andsee what he's made of.
And, man, you actuallyblossomed, like you grew a ton.
The heat actually crackedeverything open.
You became vulnerable.
You allowed people to shepherdyou and you grew.
And it was because of that heat.
If mean, if I'd have just leftyou in that cube, you might've
(10:30):
died a slow death there and whoknows where you'd be today, you
know.
But you said I can do more.
And we believed not just me,but others around you believed
that you could do more.
And so you enter this crucible.
How long would you say that youfelt maybe this crucible
tension, that said, okay, nowyou're kind of refined and
(10:53):
moving out of it.
What does that look like?
What did that look like?
Speaker 2 (10:57):
So the crucible moment probably lasted between
six months to a year and in thattime you and I were working
side by side, doing 80 to 100hour work weeks on a pretty
regular basis, and you were justreally leading me and
empowering me to do more, notfor the company but for God.
(11:20):
And you were feeding me books.
I was reading books, we weretalking about scripture, we were
texting during quiet time,holding each other accountable
with our quiet time.
We were working out together,exercising together, and you
were just in the trenches withme the whole time.
(11:40):
During that time, and afterabout maybe a year or so of you
just really pouring into me,it's when I felt that I had kind
of moved on from just beingunder you and being able to move
out and go and help others andI started volunteering at the
(12:05):
church with the youth group anddoing a lot of other things that
you just kind of pushed me outand encouraged me to do and
empowered me to do those things.
Speaker 1 (12:16):
So then, how did that lead to this relocation, if you
will, to the Dominican Republic?
I mean, you're in there, you'rein the grind.
I think we dialed back thething and said, okay, we don't
need to be working this much,it's now gotten unhealthy.
We've worked a lot.
We were in the trenchestogether, we rubbed shoulders,
(12:37):
we were grinding it out, and Ido remember, even if we were at
the office at 4.30, kirk, didyou do your quiet time this
morning?
It's like man, well, what timedo you need me to get up,
however early it takes, right?
Like that's the thing we don'tskip on, no matter how early we
go to work.
We put that time before and Ithink we were encouraging each
other in those disciplines rightand holding each other
accountable.
(12:58):
But talk about how that evolvedinto this awareness that, okay,
there's more, because it camethrough your scripture and your
study and the books you werereading.
I mean I don't want people tomiss that.
Like you were putting in timeat work and growing in
resiliency and grit andperseverance.
But you were also self-studying.
(13:18):
I mean you were a studentaround the clock, you know, I
don't even know if you slept,but you were reading books and
you were studying scripture andyou were growing and it's just
like you took off.
And then at some point youstarted thinking like, okay,
there's more than what I'm doinghere.
And you talk about beingempowered and how I encourage
you to say, yes, there is more.
(13:39):
And as much as I wanted you tostay at Wildman so we could
abuse you and have you work more, out too many hours and not pay
enough Just kidding, but that'sprobably what happened, that we
said, okay, kirk, there is more.
We want you to stay herebecause this is an awesome
company, we're doing awesomethings, but God has more for you
, man, if you want it.
And so at what point did thatstart clicking, all the way to
(14:07):
the point where you said yes andyou hopped on a plane and you
moved to the Dominican Republic.
How did that crucible prepareyou for that?
Because without that cruciblemoment or this season, you
likely wouldn't have been ableto respond to God tapping on
your heart, going Kirk, there'smore out there for you, man,
I've got something else for you.
So kind of talk about thattransition.
Speaker 2 (14:30):
Yeah.
So when I was in the cruciblemoment, that time really helped
define my character and gave methe resilience that I still have
today with working those longhours, doing whatever it took to
make sure that we weresuccessful.
(14:51):
And as far as moving on, you'dbeen discipling me, but, like
you said, I put in a lot of thework myself as well.
I was doing my devotionals, Iwas reading scripture, I was
reading books, but you werealways there along the way to
(15:13):
kind of feed me those as well,which is huge.
And so the more I read, themore books you gave me.
I remember there'd be timesyou'd give me two or three books
on a weekend and I'd come backand I'm like, okay, I'm done,
give me more.
Speaker 1 (15:27):
I remember that I'm like what the heck?
Speaker 2 (15:29):
I remember at first it was more the they like
spoon-fed stuff, the easy readsfor newer Christ followers, and
then it got deeper and towardsthe end it kind of shifted over
into more the mission focus andI think you probably had it was
(15:53):
a little strategic with you butI felt God calling me to do more
and I had.
I told God that I was going todo whatever he put in front of
me If he, whatever it was, I wasgoing to say yes to.
And as you started kind ofshowing me the missions route
(16:14):
and it was something that I'dnever really seen before.
I'd heard about missionariesgoing overseas and things, but I
didn't really know what it wasor ever thought that I would
ever do that or didn't knowanybody other than you that had
done that.
And it just opened my eyes toother opportunities and to
(16:34):
serving people not just in ourown community but out in the
world and other countries.
And Wildman was a big part ofthat, partnering with Second
Mile Missions and providing methat opportunity to go over
there.
And towards the end I reallyfelt God calling me into
(16:55):
missions.
After my last trip down in theDominican Republic I came back
and at that point you kind ofknew that I was kind of looking
to go that route and that Godwas pulling me over towards
missions.
And you said, hey, let's go fora trail run at lunch today.
Tell me about your trip.
(17:17):
And I remember going on the runwith you and I told you.
I said, hey, I think God'scalling me to move over to the
Dominican Republic with SecondMile Missions.
And you just nonchalantly said,okay, well, we'll find your
replacement, we'll get yourreplacement ready.
And I said no, no, whoa, whoa,wait.
I was like we're just talkingabout it right now, that I don't
.
You know we have to make surethere's a position and that this
(17:40):
is something we can do.
And you just said, no, god'salready called you to missions.
You already said yes, whetherit's with Second Mile Missions
or another organization, but youalready told them.
You already said, yes, you'regoing.
And that was when it justclicked for me.
I was like, yeah, you're right,and it just from there.
(18:00):
Thankfully, it worked out withSecond Mile Missions and I was
able to move down and I'm stilldown there.
I met my amazing wife.
We have two amazing kids.
Speaker 1 (18:07):
Man, that's crazy.
So let's see 2017, when did youmove down there?
Speaker 2 (18:14):
2016.
Speaker 1 (18:15):
Oh my gosh, has it been that long.
So you've been down there nineyears, nine years man, nine
years this month.
So kind of just summarize thatnine years, because part of it
was with Second Mile Missions,full-time serving with them, and
then it kind of startedtransitioning into where you're
at now in life and you're stillinvolved with Second Mile
Missions, on the board andplugged in in other ways.
But kind of just give a littlebit of an overview in a few
(18:36):
minutes of what's been in thatnine years.
What was that transition, thatprocess?
Speaker 2 (18:41):
Yeah, so I moved down there and it was almost to the
day nine years to the day, atthe end of January in 2016.
And I didn't know hardly anySpanish, so it was just complete
immersion.
I was went down to help withfinances and I quickly got put
(19:03):
into the school that we havethey.
They let go of the PE teacher,so they put me in PE and had a
kid that was.
He was at school, but he wasalso helping me with the PE
class Because he knew prettydecent English, and so I got put
into that and I worked withSecond Mile full-time for the
(19:27):
first four years and then, onceCOVID hit, there were some
drastic changes with theeducation system.
The school was shut down andthere were some changes going on
in Second Mile and so I decidedto step away from the full-time
ministry with Second Mile.
At the same time, my wife wasstill working full-time with
(19:48):
Second Mile as a social worker,and she still is.
So I continued to volunteer anda year ago they asked me if I
would be on the board, so I nowserve with them on the board.
Speaker 1 (20:03):
Awesome.
Ok, I want to back up just alittle bit.
Surely there was some cruciblemoments.
In fact, I know there wasbecause we stayed in
communication your first sixmonths down there and I remember
helping equip you with justsome cultural adjustment stuff
before you left.
We were kind of talking aboutcultural adjustment and kind of
(20:24):
how to learn a language and thistype of stuff, and you'd
already been studying andlearning Spanish before you left
, but clearly not enough tocommunicate well upon arrival.
So talk a little bit about thiscrucible of culture and
language acquisition and a newenvironment.
Like what was going throughyour head?
Did you ever go?
(20:44):
What did I get myself into?
You were living in this littleit was like the old dorm, right
Like I don't know two bunks orsomething in this little dorm
and little, teeny, tiny.
You can't even call it akitchen.
It had like a sink or somethingand I don't even remember like
one little burner, yeah, and I'mlike dude, what are you eating
every day?
And I don't know, I think itwas rice and chicken or
(21:05):
something was a staple food ormaybe it wasn't even that nice.
So talk a little about thatadjustment and that crucible of
like that first few months, orsix months or so.
Speaker 2 (21:15):
Yeah, like you said, I didn't know hardly any Spanish
.
The culture was new andthankfully I had gone with
several different culturalstudies with you and with WCC
and some of the pastors at WCC,so it wasn't a complete culture
shock when I got down there andI, thankfully, had learned
(21:38):
before I got down there torespect the culture and, despite
what I thought personally thatif it was the culture and it
wasn't biblically wrong, then itwasn't wrong.
It was just the way that theydo things.
So it really helped me.
But yeah, I moved down there ina little tiny little dorm that
(21:59):
was just really set up forshort-term mission trips, with
these rackety bunks and akitchen that had a small
refrigerator and a sink, and Ilived there for six months and I
was just immersed in theculture and the language and it
was for sure a barrier.
Nobody else spoke English, soit was 100% Spanish immersion
(22:22):
and I just did everything Icould to integrate myself in the
church, which was partneredwith Second Mile Missions on
their campus.
So I was involved in the church, going to that church and then
the other church in the littlevillage as much as I could, just
trying to integrate myself intothe community for the first six
(22:44):
months and you know, I knew Godwanted me there and I think
that was kind of the thing thatthat helped me continue to move
forward.
And I was a single man, so Iwas Wild, I had developed that
persistency and the grit sothere was no way I was going to
(23:05):
fail.
But there were some tryingtimes for sure.
Speaker 1 (23:08):
Yeah, I bet I do remember frustrations and
challenges and just theadjustments you know and I think
, yeah, the grit and resiliencyand character you developed in
the crucible certainly helpedyou be prepared to endure that
challenge.
So, just to kind of recap, youknow this crucible experience.
You know we talk about, youknow leaders on fire, this
(23:30):
principle of the missionalleadership triad shepherding,
liberating and empowering and,as you described your experience
at Wildman and the leadershipthat was around you, that your
life was transformed.
You came in broken and throughthat process of the crucible, of
being shepherded in thatenvironment and liberated and
freed from the things that wereholding you in bondage, and then
(23:51):
being empowered to realize thatGod has more for you and then
seeing you go and actually sayyes and relocate to another
country.
And here you are been therenine years.
That's a remarkable story andI'm thankful that you were able
to share that story.
Hopefully that's anencouragement to people that are
listening to this podcast that,even though, while sometimes
(24:12):
and some seasons may be hard, ifyou lean in and Kirk, you
leaned in like you embraced it,you embraced it.
Some people cowered us awayfrom that and they just went out
.
Right, it's too uncomfortable,but there was something inside
of you that you embraced it, youleaned in and you knew that it
was for a greater purpose, evenif you didn't actually know yet.
(24:34):
You just trusted that.
Okay, I'm following this crazyguy, I work for this company
that's doing some great stuff.
I feel like I'm changing in mylife.
I'm sticking with it.
And you just kept feedingyourself and consuming, and so
hopefully that's anencouragement for those that
when you stick through thecrucible and you come out the
other end and you're positionedin this place of empowerment and
(24:54):
you go, ah, I'm a masterpieceand God has prepared good things
for me to do, whether that's inyour current vocation or not is
actually irrelevant.
Whether that's in your hometownwith your family or in another
country is irrelevant, andyou've shown that.
And now your new family is onthe other side of the world and
you've created a new familythere, which is really cool.
(25:16):
So thank you for sharing yourstory and there's no doubt that
you have grown as a leader onfire and that your character has
been refined through thesecrucible moments.
So thank you for beingvulnerable and sharing some of
that story.
Thanks, drew.
Well, thanks for being on theshow.
We appreciate it.
Thanks a lot.
It's been a pleasure.
Thank you for listening totoday's episode.
(25:38):
Perhaps it has prompted apainful memory or challenged you
to reflect on times you were inthe crucible.
Some of you may be in acrucible now, but be encouraged.
Maybe, just maybe, god is usingthis to refine your character
so that you emerge as a leaderon fire.
If today's episode was anencouragement to you, share it
(26:01):
with others who may also findencouragement in the Leaders on
Fire podcast.
So let's go into the world sentout as leaders on fire.
Until next time, take care.
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