December 31, 2024 • 36 mins
Have you ever pondered the impact of the 'birth lottery' and how it shapes lives and opportunities? Join us as Riley Fuller, the passionate visionary behind Humanity and Hope United and Generous Coffee, takes us through his inspiring journey of purpose-driven leadership. Riley's life story, enriched by his unwavering faith and a pivotal moment of revelation in 2013, sheds light on how love, hope, and respect can transform communities and lives. He opens up about his personal evolution from a childhood anchored in sports to a path of service and leadership that seeks to uplift those affected by life's inherent inequalities.
Riley's path has not been without its challenges. Drawing strength from a spiritual turning point in October 2020, Riley shares how life’s adversities have refined his character and reinforced his commitment to his mission. Our recent adventure to Honduras with Riley offered a glimpse into the transformative work being done on the ground, a testament to his relentless dedication to creating lasting change. Through reflection on these experiences, Riley encourages us to view our struggles as opportunities to grow into empowered leaders with a burning purpose.
Our conversation provides a message of hope and transformation, urging listeners to embrace their personal crucibles as a divine shaping of destiny. We explore how these moments of trial can be the forge that molds us into leaders ignited with passion and resilience. Whether you're a parent, a leader, or someone seeking inspiration, this episode promises a wealth of insights and encouragement to navigate life's challenges and emerge stronger on the other side.
Leaders on Fire
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:03):
This is the Leaders on Fire podcast.
On this show, we'll be invitingguests in to talk about
crucible moments in their livesand unpack how it developed
character and perseverance andhow they emerged as leaders on
fire.
We hope that this podcast is anencouragement and an
inspiration to you, man, todayI'm excited we have my good
(00:26):
friend, riley Fuller, who'sgoing to be joining us.
I've known Riley for about 10years.
Our lives have crossed paths somany different times on
different projects and Riley isan inspiration to me and I can
assure you his story will be aninspiration for you as well.
So let's welcome Riley to theshow.
Riley, man, I'm super pumped tohave you on the podcast.
(00:48):
Man, you've been such anawesome friend of mine for many
years I think it's maybe beenprobably 10, a little over 10
years, I think when we firstreally started to get to know
each other.
You've been a mentor to me inmy life.
You've been a great friend.
You've been an encouragement, asupporter.
You're one of the few guys Iknow that I could call anytime
(01:10):
to talk about truly anything.
So I appreciate you tons.
Super pumped to have you on theshow, man.
Speaker 2 (01:16):
Likewise brother Really excited to be here.
Speaker 1 (01:18):
Sweet, all right.
So let's start by lighting thefire.
Riley, tell us a little bitabout who you are and what you
do.
Speaker 2 (01:27):
Yeah Well, drew, I'm so excited to be here.
You and I have done so many fun, exciting, strange things
together in life that this isright down the center.
I am, most importantly, I'm abeliever in Jesus.
He's my orienting North Star.
I'm a husband.
I've been married for 10 yearsto my beautiful Persian princess
(01:47):
, nazli, and we have three kids,10, six and four two boys and a
girl.
I love the idea that we can helppeople in practical ways to
make their lives better, and soyou know that we're all given,
like this pot of energy that wecan use, and it could be selfish
(02:08):
, it could be unselfish, itcould be effective, ineffective,
and I like mine to be unselfishand effective, especially like
during my professional time.
So, as you know, you and I andour friend Ben co-founded
Generous Coffee.
Generous just put in an awesomestore and a roastery here in
Warsaw.
I'm also the founder ofHumanity and Hope United
Humanity and Hope United.
(02:29):
What we do is there's thisproblem for a lot of people
called the birth lottery, thefact that our souls come from
God here into reality in waysthat we don't have any agency,
we don't have any choice over it, and for people like you and I,
that's mostly a great thing,but for somebody who's born
without electricity or schoolsor jobs that employ their
(02:53):
parents or governments that canhelp keep them safe and healthy,
then the birth lottery can bethe most destructive thing ever.
And so what I try to do, whatwe try to do with humanity and
hope, is to create a solutionfor the birth lottery, and we
call that solution a mindsetcalled hope.
Hope is the mixture of beliefand action, so saying having a
(03:18):
goal and then not just believingthat it's true, but acting like
it.
Goals, agency and pathways.
So I do a little bit of that.
I love to play soccer.
I love to skateboard surf.
Try to pick up a new hobbyevery year.
I may follow in your steps inIronman triathlons at some point
.
Speaker 1 (03:37):
Oh yeah, but that's a little bit about me.
You shouldn't have said that,because now I'm going to be
after you about it.
Speaker 2 (03:43):
Well, I see what you got going on, and I know you've
been doing it for a while andyour father-in-law has too, but
yeah, there's something that'scatching my eye.
Speaker 1 (03:52):
Awesome, man.
Well, you know what?
It's pretty cool and it's kindof ironic the timing of this
podcast because I was just inHonduras last week with your
team.
Man, it was an amazingexperience.
I think that was maybe my sixthor seventh time down there,
only my second time ever downthere without you.
The first time I was down therewas way back in 2006,.
(04:13):
Actually with your family,except you, and maybe you can
share a little bit about that ina minute.
I was down there in 2000,.
Maybe five or six with yourfamily, your brothers and your
mom and dad.
That was the only time I wasdown there without you, and then
last week.
But we've gone down a handfulof times together.
I've enjoyed that time with you, but, man, your team down there
is awesome, and being able togo into the different villages
(04:34):
that Humanity and Hope United isworking in and seeing the
impact was really, reallyamazing for our family to see
that work.
So let's warm things up alittle bit and let's fan the
flame.
Tell us kind of why and how,what led you to start Humanity
and Hope United, and maybe eventalk a little bit about why you
(04:56):
weren't on that trip in 2006when I was and kind of what
happened and how that led intostarting H&H.
Speaker 2 (05:05):
I try to be really honest when I talk about my
involvement with nonprofit andaltruistic stuff, trying to help
other people.
It's definitely not where Istarted when I was a kid,
dreaming about my life.
It's not what I ever dreamedabout.
I mean, I don't think that Ithought about service one time
until I was in my 20s, which I'mnot proud of.
But this is just for anybodywho's listening to this who also
(05:29):
doesn't feel very unselfish orservant-hearted.
I feel like I'm cut from thesame cloth.
I know what that feels like.
So the way I started withHumanity and Hope was I had a
I'm going to give you like atwo-minute version but I had a
great upbringing here in Warsawon Lake Tippecanoe, spent most
of my time playing sports andbeing on the lake, boating,
(05:51):
wakeboarding, tubing.
I spent my entire childhoodtrying to be an athlete.
I wanted to play basketball,but I ended up getting a
scholarship to play soccer and Itook it, but I ended up
foregoing that scholarship for agirl.
And she cheated on me within twomonths into college.
So everything that I'd everhonestly everything that I'd
(06:13):
ever poured my heart into wastaken away from me immediately.
And then I didn't have therelational skills to be able to
talk to people I was close with.
I'd just moved to college, so Ididn't have anybody around me
who people I was close with.
I'd just moved to college, so Ididn't have anybody around me
who I was really close with andI went deeply into addiction.
I had some predisposition in myfamily, ended up getting kicked
(06:36):
out of that school, decided togo into investment banking.
Made that my focus in life.
I didn't go on that first tripthat you went on because my
parents asked me if I wanted toand I'm like y'all must be crazy
, I don't see the point in this,and so I didn't go.
But I did end up getting introuble.
I got arrested a few times.
I wrecked my dad's car and heused the influence that he had
(06:58):
left with me to get me on thattrip to Honduras.
I never wanted to go and evenwhen he brought me I came pretty
unwillingly, and you know thatyou got kids.
You know unwilling children.
They may come but they'recertainly not going to enjoy it.
They're going to be fightingyou every second, and that's how
I was going on to my first tripto Honduras.
Was that the next year.
Speaker 1 (07:19):
That was the following, yeah.
Speaker 2 (07:21):
Yours was 2006.
This must've been 2007.
So I went very unwillingly.
But when, when I landed, Ithink within 15 minutes of
leaving the airport, this ideawe go to this first community,
this idea of a birth lottery, Ishow up.
Somebody had just gottenmacheted on their leg.
You know, all the houses aremade out of temporary materials,
(07:42):
there's clearly no sanitationor electricity, and I'm thinking
I'd only had selfish thoughtsup to this point and I'm
thinking like, oh my God, I havemade it Like I am a winner in
life in a way that I had neverconsidered before, and so that
captured my curiosity.
I'd only been thinking aboutsports and business and making
money.
It captured my curiosity.
(08:04):
I traveled back to Honduras thefollowing summer because I knew
that I had this investmentbanking job in hand and I just
had time to kill and I didn'twant to let my addictions get
the best of me.
So, anyway, I moved down toHonduras.
I got fired from the nonprofitI was volunteering for.
It didn't work out.
That was my entry into Honduras.
(08:24):
And then, three years later,after my career was in full gear
and I was really feeling likemy soul was just scraping the
bottom of existence and reallystarting to think some suicidal
thoughts.
That's when the idea, when Ihad nothing else to think about
or hold on to.
That's when the idea camerushing back in my mind.
It was like God put it there,Even though I wasn't a believer
(08:46):
at that point, it was like thiswas your purpose and you saw it
and you felt it, but you didn'twant it.
And in that moment I remembered.
And that's when I started topursue, that's when I started to
build humanity and hope.
At that point, man, that'scrazy.
Speaker 1 (09:00):
So you were pursuing the things of this world,
because you weren't a believerat this point, but you were
pursuing the things of thisworld.
Investment banking waslucrative for you and you were
snorting and drinking andwhatever else, smoking away your
earnings I don't know having agood time, but that led even
though you had basicallyeverything you could have
probably wanted it led you to apoint of despair, and that's
(09:23):
where you're talking about thatbreaking point, where you're
like I need something moremeaningful and purposeful
because this is not it.
And so that's when you started.
Speaker 2 (09:30):
That's what?
Yeah, that's when I startedHumanity and Hope.
Speaker 1 (09:33):
Awesome man, I love that story.
Now you started Humanity andHope.
You were not a believer yet andI don't know if you're going to
talk about this in the cruciblesection when we crank up the
heat.
If you're not going to sharethat story, maybe briefly tell
about.
You started the organizationand you had this felt need and
(09:55):
you knew this was something thatyou should do.
You weren't sure what it wascompelled by at that point in
time, you just knew you weresupposed to do that.
At what point did the lightbulb go off, that this love that
you felt you wanted to sharefor the people?
When did you realize where thesource of that was coming from
and how did it shift yourthinking?
Speaker 2 (10:14):
Yeah Well, thankfully there's a really direct answer
to that.
I started Humanity and Hope in2010.
It was like the idea of thebirth lottery.
The thought of treating yourprogram beneficiaries is what
they're called in the nonprofitworld.
Treating them as customers orfamily is what we called it in
(10:35):
my family business was anothernuance that I wanted to bring
into it, and then the idea ofhaving more than one area of
investment, six pillars.
Those were the things that Ithought that we could do
differently, and that's thereason that I started it in the
very beginning is because Ithought it could be effective in
(10:56):
helping solve the birth lottery.
Like you said, what I didn'tknow was why?
Like why do I care about this?
Like this has nothing to dowith my wellbeing or my
interests or even the thingsthat I thought were my values.
Up to that point, you know,like why would this be my thing?
And for a while for the firstthree years, from 2010 to
actually four to the end of 2013, I'm a big follow my gut kind
(11:21):
of person and I could just feelGod had given me the gift to
know that this was my thing evenbefore I knew him, and I'd been
trying really hard, in a lot ofdifferent ways, to make these
programs successful, and I hadfound out that it was a loving
attitude or treating people atleast equal hopefully superior
(11:44):
to yourself, that that was thefuel that made these things work
, and I called that love.
I knew that was love and thenone day this is November 29th of
2013, I was flying home forThanksgiving Flight gets
canceled.
I read through all the books Ihave, I love to read, and then
the next day it was a spiritflight.
(12:05):
So the next day, or maybe twodays later, when it gets
rescheduled, the only thing Ihave to read is a devotional
that my dad had downloaded on myphone for me, and you'll
probably know this.
I think it's 1 John 4, 18.
But there's a verse that saysthat God is love, and I read
that in that devotional book andI was like in one moment I was
(12:29):
like that's what I've beenlooking for, that's the fuel.
You know, I'd always had thesebig barriers to God because of
the basically just theexpressions that I'd grown up
around in in church and the factthat all humans are so human
and everybody fails and I, youknow, I put that on God, I guess
, instead of people.
But in that moment, when I hadmy barriers down and when I read
(12:52):
that God is love, I thought, oh, if that's who Jesus' Father is
, if that's who the ChristianGod is, I'm all in and it feels
like a gift.
Even as I tell it it's like,well, I probably had read that
multiple times before, but inthat moment it hit my vulnerable
(13:13):
heart.
Speaker 1 (13:14):
And.
Speaker 2 (13:14):
I've been all in ever since.
Speaker 1 (13:16):
Man, that's awesome.
And you were 27 or so.
I was 29.
29.
Okay, so the thing I want tojust mention this because it's
encouraging to parents and it'spersonally.
I've fallen back on this anumber of times, so hopefully
it's okay.
We've used your life as anexample.
When we're talking, my wife andI are talking about raising our
kids, because your dad, hecontinued to persist and plant
(13:40):
seeds and invite you in, inviteyou in, give you books, and you
resisted it.
I mean you've told me that yousaid, hey, sometimes they would
be having a Bible study, I hadnothing to do with it, I'd go
into a different room, but yourdad was faithful and he just
continued fertilizing the soiland for 29 years.
I'm guessing your dad Denny wasprayerfully waiting for the day
(14:04):
and it came in an unex wayprobably, but it was something,
that one of his little thingsthat he just continued to do.
So I think, as parents, for uswho are dads, we've got kids.
You know they don't.
They don't always receive itright away, you know.
And so even even when we werethrough some turbulent times
with our own children, you know,going through teenage years, I
(14:27):
kept thinking of your story,riley going.
God has a purpose and a planand he will use these things and
there is an appointed time whenmy kids will choose to follow
the way and they'll surrendertheir life over.
I would love for that to beright now, but there's something
else going on, and it's just anencouragement to those who've,
(14:49):
because that all makes who youare as a person.
That's your story.
That's part of you being amasterpiece created in God's
image, right?
All those things were part ofyour story, and so it's an
encouragement to me as a parent,and I hope it encourages others
who maybe have children who arewayward or rebellious even into
their 20s, that don't lose hope, right?
(15:12):
Don't lose hope.
God is faithful and continue tojust be there for your kids and
love them like your dad alwayswas for you.
I mean, I'm sure he got mad atyou a few times, right?
Amen.
Speaker 2 (15:21):
I wouldn't be here if it wasn't for my dad.
Yeah, so I could go all intothat message that you're sharing
, and even more, but obviouslyGod is our father.
Speaker 1 (15:37):
Anyway.
Speaker 2 (15:38):
I'm choking up because of emotion thinking
about my dad.
I wouldn't be here without mydad.
It was not always fun for him.
In fact, most of the times,especially between like 18 and
29, it was probably reallyunpleasant.
I mean, there were times whenas a kid and my dad knows this,
we've talked about it, he's mybest friend now, but there were
times when I actively would tryto do mean bad things to my dad
(16:00):
as a son and my dad humanly.
But he absorbed it, you know,and he kept his love for me and
that ended up being.
God used that to bring thatdevotion.
That ended up saving my soul.
Speaker 1 (16:14):
Yeah, it's so amazing and it is so encouraging.
You know, I've got a couple ofadult children now and it's more
difficult because they're outfrom underneath your wing, right
, I mean.
So it's even more difficultbecause you can't you watch the
destruction happen and you can'tdo anything about it.
And so, anyways, I just wantedyou to know, that man, that your
(16:35):
story has been an encouragementto me as a parent, the way your
dad navigated that with you,and to see where you're at today
, and so hopefully it'sencouragement to others.
All right, so you ready toenter the crucible?
Oh, I'm ready.
We're going to crank up thethermostat, we're going to crank
up the heat and we're going totalk about the crucible, a
moment in your life where theheat was cranked up.
(16:58):
We think of, maybe, theultimate crucible scenario.
Well, first of Christ himself,what he experienced in the
crucible moment and the glorythat came following that, when
he became truly a leader on fireand he emerged from the
resurrection and he has hisrightful place now.
But we can also think of thehuman, of Job.
(17:19):
Right, everybody knows thestory of Job and the crucible he
was in.
That was really difficult, andso a crucible is that time in
life where the heat is crankedup and God is using that to
refine, to melt away theimpurities, to melt away the
things that are distracting usfrom loving God fully with all
(17:40):
of our heart, soul, mind andstrength.
And when we're in thosecrucible moments it's usually
unpleasant and we usually arepraying desperately Lord, I just
want to get out of this.
I want to get out of whateverthe circumstance is.
Please get me out of this.
And sometimes that goes on forminutes, hours, days, weeks,
sometimes months, maybe evensometimes years.
But the crucible we endurehardship is discipline, because
(18:06):
it produces fruit, it producescharacter, produces all these
wonderful things.
It just really sucks when we'rein it.
So, entering the crucible,riley, share with us a season or
a moment in life where thecrucible was very difficult and
how you emerged, and basicallyyou're able to look back on that
(18:27):
season now and how you feel itshaped you.
Speaker 2 (18:32):
I've got plenty of examples to choose from in my
life, but the one that I thinkwould be most relevant here is
probably it's about 10 years ago, and so I started Humanity and
Hope in 2010, and this happenedin 2014, so I had a full time
(18:55):
job for the first four years.
I kept my corporate job.
I kept getting promoted.
I never really thought that anon-profit game would be my full
time thing.
And anyway, humanity and Hopeended up growing and, more
importantly, it actually endedup starting to help people,
especially through economicdevelopment, and so each time I
(19:15):
would go back down.
I guess in conjunction, itstarted bringing people down to
visit, so it started making adifference and bringing people
to see it, and I was one ofthose people both experiencing
it and then coming to watch it,and so it started pulling more
and more of my soul into it andyet less and less of my income.
I mean, I was giving money tothis thing.
(19:39):
It was difficult financially andthen I felt the call that this
is what my energy is for, thisis what my time is for, this is
what my time is for, this iswhat the best, some of the best
parts of me I didn't have afamily at that point.
Yet this is what the best partsof me are for.
So I started figuring out howto leave the corporate world,
how to change all theseexpectations I had about my
(20:02):
retirement account and my incomeand where I could live and what
I could drive.
And then, anyway, I ended upgetting to a point where I gave
it all up.
Another part so left thecorporate world.
Ended up I wasn't a believeryet ended up moving in with my
girlfriend I'll take you throughlike a five minute version of
(20:24):
this Moving in with mygirlfriend, who's now my wife.
So it ends up being a goodstory.
We end up.
So I go all in on myrelationship and humanity and
hope she and I break up on mybirthday.
So I moved back from Texas toIndiana.
I never wanted, at that pointwhen I was young, to live in
(20:47):
Indiana because I didn't, youknow, my parents had a business
here and I felt like if I wasworking for my parents' business
then I was taking the easy wayout.
And so, anyway, so I lose myjob, I lose my girlfriend, I
move in with my parents and thenI become a believer.
It was a really, really toughtime Found out that my
girlfriend now my wife waspregnant.
So I had to figure out okay, amI going to leave Indiana?
(21:09):
Am I going to be a presentfather?
Am I going to try to getmarried?
We ended up getting married.
Our son has congenitalcomplications.
He had to get skull surgery.
At the same time, I'mfundraising for humanity and
hope, while not even taking asalary I would have been paying
myself, and so I'm trying tofigure out if this career can
(21:30):
even be sustainable, navigatinga new marriage that I wasn't
expecting to be in, parenting achild with really serious health
challenges and I also wasn'texpecting to be a parent at that
time and I just remember, forprobably four years, especially
(21:52):
when the dry parts of thefunding cycle would come, which
is usually like August,september or it was back.
Then I remember I would pray toGod, like I know that you have
told me to follow you in thisway.
I know that you've told meyou've given me special
instructions and a specialvision and a download to my
(22:13):
heart, and yet it doesn't looklike anything's happening.
And it actually looks like themore that I'm obedient, maybe,
the worse my life gets, at leastin the short term.
And then I remember, on top ofthat, I started to have sort of
(22:34):
unfaithful thoughts about mycalling, about my career.
I'm like, well, maybe I shouldgo back into trying to make
money.
And so I started dabbling myfoot in that, dabbling my foot
in that, and I got an offer, ajob offer that would have been
like multiple times what I wasmaking before.
You know.
They were going to give me acar, they were going to give me
a house, but the catch was Ilive in Austin, it was in Dallas
(22:57):
, so it was three hours, fourdays a week, three hours away
from my wife and my newborn, andso that was the crucible for me
, or one of them.
I mean, I've had more than one,but that was a crucible.
It's like.
Will I really keep trying forthis when I don't see it?
Will I take an easy way out?
(23:18):
I mean, honestly, I was prayingfor God to release me.
I wasn't going to be dishonestabout it or leave if he didn't
tell me to, but constantly I wassaying, god, this doesn't seem
like you're here.
Let me out of this.
I don't enjoy it.
This isn't where I want to be.
I never.
This is never what I dreamed of.
(23:38):
Yeah, so that was.
That was the crucible.
How long was that season?
Well, it definitely started in2013.
And I would say the mostintense part of that season
lasted through 2015,.
Probably two years, the mostintense part of it, but I would
(23:59):
say overall, that season lasteduntil, like COVID.
Speaker 1 (24:05):
Yeah, I'm wondering too.
I feel like I remember I wasdriving south I think it's in
Nashville or something.
I feel like I was on the phonewith you during this time it
might've been 2014.
And I remember you strugglingwith.
I remember thinking, oh man, Ithink he's gonna like give this
(24:26):
up.
I don't remember theconversation specifically, but I
do remember being in the carand driving south on I-65, and
we were having a phone call.
It was early in ourrelationship and I just remember
you were really contemplatingis this something that you can
you know?
Because the finances justweren't.
It wasn't making sense, youweren't getting a salary at that
time and it was a reallydifficult season.
(24:48):
I think it was right around inthat same time period.
Speaker 2 (24:51):
I don't know if you remember that or not, but I
remember just being like yourlittle brother and just being
like sad and kind of like justventing my sadness to you.
Speaker 1 (25:03):
Yeah, I think that's yeah, that's what it was, and so
how long you know, I know youset up through COVID, but there
was a moment at which, or wasthere a moment at which, you,
like, feel like you were out ofthe crucible and you kind of had
this relief of the pressure andwhere you emerged and said,
okay, that's behind me, I'm nowout of the crucible.
(25:24):
That doesn't mean that thepressures didn't weren't still
there there weren't new ones ordifferent stressors but that
very specific crucible momentwas there, a moment that you
felt like you can look back andsay, okay, I'm through that and
I'm very clear of my calling.
The resources are now finallycoming in and I feel like we've
got a plan ahead of us.
Or did that take through 2023?
(25:48):
Or still, are you still in it?
Speaker 2 (25:52):
I remember the moment .
It was October 14th 2020.
And that happens to be when H&Hturned 10 years old and the
first 10 years had been manother than marriage like the
hardest thing, and man otherthan marriage like the hardest
thing the early parts ofmarriage it was.
It's harder than harder thansomething that I thought that I
(26:14):
could go through.
And then the 10 yearanniversary hits and, like
normal, you know, we're in thedry parts end of September,
early October.
I'm to the point of the yearwhere I'm normally praying for
God to release me from this andthis is so hard, and I remember
that wasn't my prayer that year.
I just felt like somethingdifferent was coming and on the
(26:35):
10-year anniversary I waspraying.
I was like God, give mesomething.
Like I know you, you're myfather, you got a gift for me.
Give me something, please giveme.
And just like a little kidwould the Bible says to do that
and so I was like, oh, I'm goingto give that a shot.
And then I remember he gave methe gift and it was you belong,
(27:03):
you're not pretending, you'vebeen doing this for 10 years.
And then these are the wordsthat stuck with me, that I wrote
down it's like all you got todo is keep showing up, wrote
down.
He's like all you got to do iskeep showing up.
And that was the moment for mewhen I knew that somehow I had
because in the beginning, like Itold you, the first mission
trip, like I fought my dad, Ididn't want to go.
And then at this point, I was aguy who had fought for what he
(27:23):
believed the God-inspired dreamsinside of him for 10 straight
years, through tons of hardship,the God-inspired dreams inside
of him for 10 straight years,through tons of hardship.
And at some point between pointA and point B, my identity
changed.
But I didn't realize it, likeit didn't become something that
I fully felt until that moment,that 10-year anniversary when
(27:44):
God was like, hey, you belong,just keep showing up.
That's when it felt like theweight lifted for me yeah, so
that was really.
Speaker 1 (27:49):
it was about a 10 year crucible.
I mean, there's probably highsand lows in there, but that
whole season was a crucible.
And I do remember a specific.
Actually I think it was when wewent down to respond to the
hurricanes, which would haveeither been that November of
2020 or the next year.
Do you remember which one itwas?
Speaker 2 (28:06):
Yeah, that was November of 2020.
Yeah, that was like the nextmonth.
Speaker 1 (28:09):
So we were on that trip together and I remember you
talking I mean, you weretalking differently.
I remember being inspired by youbecause it's like you had
resolved who you were, youseemed free in who you were and
you were still in the journey ofexploration of this, but there
was like a new identity that hademerged.
I specifically remember that andwe had some conversations
(28:30):
around that, and then thatthat's only continued, you know,
over the last few years, asI've, as we've continued to stay
in touch, um and so, yeah, I, Ivividly remember and I I didn't
put that together that it wasreally the month before that was
the 10 year anniversary andhear this horrific hurricane two
of them back to back, smashHonduras and we go down there,
(28:52):
and yeah, just the timing ofthat and and me being able to
spend that time with you andkind of seeing you in in a new
and you were what late thirtiesat that point, right, so for
those listening, sometimes ittakes a while, you know, and
there's going to be anotherchunk of crucible or season.
You know that you're going toenter into, as will I, but the
(29:15):
point is, is that being able tosee how, if you look back how
God is taking that to shape yourcharacter, all these
circumstances, and we have achoice within that right Like
you could have just quit, and Iknow you probably wanted to a
lot, just like I.
Within that right, like youcould have just quit and I know
you probably wanted to a lot,you're just like I'm done right.
Speaker 2 (29:31):
If you guys could see the emotional energy I put in,
because I know I'm going to meetGod face-to-face one day and I
couldn't quit if he didn't tellme I could.
I can't stand the thought of mebeing face-to-face and he's
like, hey, you quit.
And I was like, well, I justwanted to Like I'm not going to
be that guy, but I did.
I put so much, I put 110% intopraying for God to release me.
(29:55):
And now it's like you weresaying with the crucible.
And now I'm so thankful that hedid it.
I'm so thankful that he's gotan eternal perspective, that he
really both sees, knows andcares what's best for me.
Because, if it was just me, Iwould have quit a thousand times
.
I really would have.
And he gave me the power not to.
Speaker 1 (30:15):
Yeah, that's crazy.
Well, and just the fact thatyou spent so much energy praying
for a way out praying for a wayout, yeah, and hopefully
encouragement for thoselistening.
Like you just keep showing up.
It's one day at a time, maybesometimes one hour, one minute
at a time.
You just keep putting a foot infront of the other and you show
up Because there is somethingthat's at work, even though we
might not see it or feel itright in that moment.
(30:37):
But there was a lot of workhappening in you during that
time and it's probablynauseating to even think about
being back in that time.
It's painful.
Speaker 2 (30:46):
It's hard.
I being back in that time ispainful.
It's hard.
I mean, I've done a lot oftherapy, so I try to be able to
go back there because it's partof my testimony and I like to
share that power.
But yeah, those were reallyreally hard years, yeah, for
sure man.
Speaker 1 (30:58):
That's awesome.
So you truly did emerge as aleader on fire, because a leader
on fire is someone who is ableto really believe and have the
manifestation of the truth ofEphesians 2.10, which says we
are God's masterpiece, ourbaggage and all Amen.
(31:19):
We're his masterpiece.
And to be able to live in thatand to believe that and to know
that he's got good thingsprepared in advance for us to do
.
But if we quit and we don'tbelieve that and we don't keep
putting a foot in front of theother, we won't get to
experience that full, abundantblessing.
And then I love Ephesians 3.20.
So I love marrying these twoverses up together Ephesians
(31:41):
3.20, that he's able to domeasurely more than all we think
, ask or imagine, according tothe power of Christ that's
within us.
And we think, ask or imagineaccording to the power of Christ
that's within us.
And so when you couple thosetwo together, it's like it takes
those crucible moments toreally continue to shape our
character, for us to be able torest in that identity that we
are his masterpiece.
All the stuff that's happenedin the past is a part of that
(32:05):
masterpiece.
And that's why I love theacronym LOFI, because it's a
musical term and it's music thathas imperfections left in the
music to create a masterpiece.
Otherwise it wouldn't be thatkind of music and so, anyways, I
love that story.
So you emerged a leader on fireand you've got a powerful story
.
You've got an amazingorganization and you know, being
(32:26):
down there last week, seeing Ithink you have a team of 1800s
on the team down there and justsuch an amazing team, a lot of
great work going, and I wastalking to my kids about you and
I'm going.
You know what Riley saw thisand he took a step.
He just took one step forwardand look what's before you and
(32:48):
just the faithfulness of anindividual to keep putting his
foot in front of the other andto be able to see what is now
here and imagine what it's goingto be in another decade, you
know.
And so what a great testimonyof your story.
Now, you mentioned earlier inthe episode about generous
coffee and I wanted to go alittle further on that because
(33:10):
it was in Honduras.
It was me, you and Ben sittingin the back of the truck.
I think we were going down aroad.
I forget where we were at andwe were going.
How can we create a mechanism,a giving mechanism to help
generate resources for H&H, andwe thought coffee sounded like a
good idea, and I believe thatwas in 2016 or 17.
And so, for those who don'tknow the Generous story, it was
(33:33):
birthed.
That vision was birthed in thetrenches in Honduras, with a
couple of guys who were justdown there serving two board
members coming alongside you andsaying, hey, what can we create
?
That's gonna be a givingmechanism, and now, of course,
generous is giving to a lot moreorganizations, but it was
birthed out of this idea to helphumanity and hope, and it's
cool to see what they've gotgoing on now here in Warsaw.
(33:54):
So, again, I would say thatwithout that step that you took,
riley, generous wouldn't evenexist and my mornings would be
different, because I lovedrinking Generous coffee every
morning, and I have since westarted it, and so I selfishly
say thank you, riley, for beingfaithful in Honduras, otherwise
I would not have my cup ofgenerous coffee every morning.
(34:15):
So cheers, brother.
Speaker 2 (34:16):
And I would be sitting here shirtless.
That's true.
Speaker 1 (34:20):
Well, man, it's been awesome having you on the
episode.
I hope and pray that your storyand your testimony speak to
people, encourages them andinspires them, and also for
people that don't know aboutHumanity and Hope.
Go to humanityandhopeunitedorgand you can see all the
different things that H&H isdoing.
(34:41):
You can go on trips.
You can fill that full storyand also in my book, all In, I
shared a little bit.
I opened up with your story andI forget which chapter it was,
but so man, we've got chapteryeah, I think it was seven or
eight Good memory, um.
So I appreciate you being a partof that.
So we've got so many things inour lives that have intersected
in ways we didn't really plan orintend years ago, when we were
(35:04):
just trying to be friends andliving life together.
So I love how our storiescontinue to overlap, um, and I'm
looking forward to how it'sgoing to continue to unfold.
So thanks for coming andjoining this man.
This is awesome.
Thanks for the invite man,looking forward to the next one.
All right, appreciate yourbrother.
Thank you for listening totoday's episode.
(35:25):
Perhaps it has prompted apainful memory or challenged you
to reflect on times you were inthe crucible.
Some of you may be in acrucible now, but be encouraged.
Maybe, just maybe, god is usingthis to refine your character
so that you emerge as a leaderon fire.
If today's episode was anencouragement to you, share it
(35:48):
with others who may also findencouragement in the leaders on
fire podcast.
So let's go into the world sentout as leaders on fire until
next time.
This is the Leaders on Fire podcast.
On this show, we'll be invitingguests in to talk about
crucible moments in their livesand unpack how it developed
character and perseverance andhow they emerged as leaders on
fire.
We hope that this podcast is anencouragement and an
inspiration to you, man, todayI'm excited we have my good
(00:26):
friend, riley Fuller, who'sgoing to be joining us.
I've known Riley for about 10years.
Our lives have crossed paths somany different times on
different projects and Riley isan inspiration to me and I can
assure you his story will be aninspiration for you as well.
So let's welcome Riley to theshow.
Riley, man, I'm super pumped tohave you on the podcast.
(00:48):
Man, you've been such anawesome friend of mine for many
years I think it's maybe beenprobably 10, a little over 10
years, I think when we firstreally started to get to know
each other.
You've been a mentor to me inmy life.
You've been a great friend.
You've been an encouragement, asupporter.
You're one of the few guys Iknow that I could call anytime
(01:10):
to talk about truly anything.
So I appreciate you tons.
Super pumped to have you on theshow, man.
Speaker 2 (01:16):
Likewise brother Really excited to be here.
Speaker 1 (01:18):
Sweet, all right.
So let's start by lighting thefire.
Riley, tell us a little bitabout who you are and what you
do.
Speaker 2 (01:27):
Yeah Well, drew, I'm so excited to be here.
You and I have done so many fun, exciting, strange things
together in life that this isright down the center.
I am, most importantly, I'm abeliever in Jesus.
He's my orienting North Star.
I'm a husband.
I've been married for 10 yearsto my beautiful Persian princess
(01:47):
, nazli, and we have three kids,10, six and four two boys and a
girl.
I love the idea that we can helppeople in practical ways to
make their lives better, and soyou know that we're all given,
like this pot of energy that wecan use, and it could be selfish
(02:08):
, it could be unselfish, itcould be effective, ineffective,
and I like mine to be unselfishand effective, especially like
during my professional time.
So, as you know, you and I andour friend Ben co-founded
Generous Coffee.
Generous just put in an awesomestore and a roastery here in
Warsaw.
I'm also the founder ofHumanity and Hope United
Humanity and Hope United.
(02:29):
What we do is there's thisproblem for a lot of people
called the birth lottery, thefact that our souls come from
God here into reality in waysthat we don't have any agency,
we don't have any choice over it, and for people like you and I,
that's mostly a great thing,but for somebody who's born
without electricity or schoolsor jobs that employ their
(02:53):
parents or governments that canhelp keep them safe and healthy,
then the birth lottery can bethe most destructive thing ever.
And so what I try to do, whatwe try to do with humanity and
hope, is to create a solutionfor the birth lottery, and we
call that solution a mindsetcalled hope.
Hope is the mixture of beliefand action, so saying having a
(03:18):
goal and then not just believingthat it's true, but acting like
it.
Goals, agency and pathways.
So I do a little bit of that.
I love to play soccer.
I love to skateboard surf.
Try to pick up a new hobbyevery year.
I may follow in your steps inIronman triathlons at some point
.
Speaker 1 (03:37):
Oh yeah, but that's a little bit about me.
You shouldn't have said that,because now I'm going to be
after you about it.
Speaker 2 (03:43):
Well, I see what you got going on, and I know you've
been doing it for a while andyour father-in-law has too, but
yeah, there's something that'scatching my eye.
Speaker 1 (03:52):
Awesome, man.
Well, you know what?
It's pretty cool and it's kindof ironic the timing of this
podcast because I was just inHonduras last week with your
team.
Man, it was an amazingexperience.
I think that was maybe my sixthor seventh time down there,
only my second time ever downthere without you.
The first time I was down therewas way back in 2006,.
(04:13):
Actually with your family,except you, and maybe you can
share a little bit about that ina minute.
I was down there in 2000,.
Maybe five or six with yourfamily, your brothers and your
mom and dad.
That was the only time I wasdown there without you, and then
last week.
But we've gone down a handfulof times together.
I've enjoyed that time with you, but, man, your team down there
is awesome, and being able togo into the different villages
(04:34):
that Humanity and Hope United isworking in and seeing the
impact was really, reallyamazing for our family to see
that work.
So let's warm things up alittle bit and let's fan the
flame.
Tell us kind of why and how,what led you to start Humanity
and Hope United, and maybe eventalk a little bit about why you
(04:56):
weren't on that trip in 2006when I was and kind of what
happened and how that led intostarting H&H.
Speaker 2 (05:05):
I try to be really honest when I talk about my
involvement with nonprofit andaltruistic stuff, trying to help
other people.
It's definitely not where Istarted when I was a kid,
dreaming about my life.
It's not what I ever dreamedabout.
I mean, I don't think that Ithought about service one time
until I was in my 20s, which I'mnot proud of.
But this is just for anybodywho's listening to this who also
(05:29):
doesn't feel very unselfish orservant-hearted.
I feel like I'm cut from thesame cloth.
I know what that feels like.
So the way I started withHumanity and Hope was I had a
I'm going to give you like atwo-minute version but I had a
great upbringing here in Warsawon Lake Tippecanoe, spent most
of my time playing sports andbeing on the lake, boating,
(05:51):
wakeboarding, tubing.
I spent my entire childhoodtrying to be an athlete.
I wanted to play basketball,but I ended up getting a
scholarship to play soccer and Itook it, but I ended up
foregoing that scholarship for agirl.
And she cheated on me within twomonths into college.
So everything that I'd everhonestly everything that I'd
(06:13):
ever poured my heart into wastaken away from me immediately.
And then I didn't have therelational skills to be able to
talk to people I was close with.
I'd just moved to college, so Ididn't have anybody around me
who people I was close with.
I'd just moved to college, so Ididn't have anybody around me
who I was really close with andI went deeply into addiction.
I had some predisposition in myfamily, ended up getting kicked
(06:36):
out of that school, decided togo into investment banking.
Made that my focus in life.
I didn't go on that first tripthat you went on because my
parents asked me if I wanted toand I'm like y'all must be crazy
, I don't see the point in this,and so I didn't go.
But I did end up getting introuble.
I got arrested a few times.
I wrecked my dad's car and heused the influence that he had
(06:58):
left with me to get me on thattrip to Honduras.
I never wanted to go and evenwhen he brought me I came pretty
unwillingly, and you know thatyou got kids.
You know unwilling children.
They may come but they'recertainly not going to enjoy it.
They're going to be fightingyou every second, and that's how
I was going on to my first tripto Honduras.
Was that the next year.
Speaker 1 (07:19):
That was the following, yeah.
Speaker 2 (07:21):
Yours was 2006.
This must've been 2007.
So I went very unwillingly.
But when, when I landed, Ithink within 15 minutes of
leaving the airport, this ideawe go to this first community,
this idea of a birth lottery, Ishow up.
Somebody had just gottenmacheted on their leg.
You know, all the houses aremade out of temporary materials,
(07:42):
there's clearly no sanitationor electricity, and I'm thinking
I'd only had selfish thoughtsup to this point and I'm
thinking like, oh my God, I havemade it Like I am a winner in
life in a way that I had neverconsidered before, and so that
captured my curiosity.
I'd only been thinking aboutsports and business and making
money.
It captured my curiosity.
(08:04):
I traveled back to Honduras thefollowing summer because I knew
that I had this investmentbanking job in hand and I just
had time to kill and I didn'twant to let my addictions get
the best of me.
So, anyway, I moved down toHonduras.
I got fired from the nonprofitI was volunteering for.
It didn't work out.
That was my entry into Honduras.
(08:24):
And then, three years later,after my career was in full gear
and I was really feeling likemy soul was just scraping the
bottom of existence and reallystarting to think some suicidal
thoughts.
That's when the idea, when Ihad nothing else to think about
or hold on to.
That's when the idea camerushing back in my mind.
It was like God put it there,Even though I wasn't a believer
(08:46):
at that point, it was like thiswas your purpose and you saw it
and you felt it, but you didn'twant it.
And in that moment I remembered.
And that's when I started topursue, that's when I started to
build humanity and hope.
At that point, man, that'scrazy.
Speaker 1 (09:00):
So you were pursuing the things of this world,
because you weren't a believerat this point, but you were
pursuing the things of thisworld.
Investment banking waslucrative for you and you were
snorting and drinking andwhatever else, smoking away your
earnings I don't know having agood time, but that led even
though you had basicallyeverything you could have
probably wanted it led you to apoint of despair, and that's
(09:23):
where you're talking about thatbreaking point, where you're
like I need something moremeaningful and purposeful
because this is not it.
And so that's when you started.
Speaker 2 (09:30):
That's what?
Yeah, that's when I startedHumanity and Hope.
Speaker 1 (09:33):
Awesome man, I love that story.
Now you started Humanity andHope.
You were not a believer yet andI don't know if you're going to
talk about this in the cruciblesection when we crank up the
heat.
If you're not going to sharethat story, maybe briefly tell
about.
You started the organizationand you had this felt need and
(09:55):
you knew this was something thatyou should do.
You weren't sure what it wascompelled by at that point in
time, you just knew you weresupposed to do that.
At what point did the lightbulb go off, that this love that
you felt you wanted to sharefor the people?
When did you realize where thesource of that was coming from
and how did it shift yourthinking?
Speaker 2 (10:14):
Yeah Well, thankfully there's a really direct answer
to that.
I started Humanity and Hope in2010.
It was like the idea of thebirth lottery.
The thought of treating yourprogram beneficiaries is what
they're called in the nonprofitworld.
Treating them as customers orfamily is what we called it in
(10:35):
my family business was anothernuance that I wanted to bring
into it, and then the idea ofhaving more than one area of
investment, six pillars.
Those were the things that Ithought that we could do
differently, and that's thereason that I started it in the
very beginning is because Ithought it could be effective in
(10:56):
helping solve the birth lottery.
Like you said, what I didn'tknow was why?
Like why do I care about this?
Like this has nothing to dowith my wellbeing or my
interests or even the thingsthat I thought were my values.
Up to that point, you know,like why would this be my thing?
And for a while for the firstthree years, from 2010 to
actually four to the end of 2013, I'm a big follow my gut kind
(11:21):
of person and I could just feelGod had given me the gift to
know that this was my thing evenbefore I knew him, and I'd been
trying really hard, in a lot ofdifferent ways, to make these
programs successful, and I hadfound out that it was a loving
attitude or treating people atleast equal hopefully superior
(11:44):
to yourself, that that was thefuel that made these things work
, and I called that love.
I knew that was love and thenone day this is November 29th of
2013, I was flying home forThanksgiving Flight gets
canceled.
I read through all the books Ihave, I love to read, and then
the next day it was a spiritflight.
(12:05):
So the next day, or maybe twodays later, when it gets
rescheduled, the only thing Ihave to read is a devotional
that my dad had downloaded on myphone for me, and you'll
probably know this.
I think it's 1 John 4, 18.
But there's a verse that saysthat God is love, and I read
that in that devotional book andI was like in one moment I was
(12:29):
like that's what I've beenlooking for, that's the fuel.
You know, I'd always had thesebig barriers to God because of
the basically just theexpressions that I'd grown up
around in in church and the factthat all humans are so human
and everybody fails and I, youknow, I put that on God, I guess
, instead of people.
But in that moment, when I hadmy barriers down and when I read
(12:52):
that God is love, I thought, oh, if that's who Jesus' Father is
, if that's who the ChristianGod is, I'm all in and it feels
like a gift.
Even as I tell it it's like,well, I probably had read that
multiple times before, but inthat moment it hit my vulnerable
(13:13):
heart.
Speaker 1 (13:14):
And.
Speaker 2 (13:14):
I've been all in ever since.
Speaker 1 (13:16):
Man, that's awesome.
And you were 27 or so.
I was 29.
29.
Okay, so the thing I want tojust mention this because it's
encouraging to parents and it'spersonally.
I've fallen back on this anumber of times, so hopefully
it's okay.
We've used your life as anexample.
When we're talking, my wife andI are talking about raising our
kids, because your dad, hecontinued to persist and plant
(13:40):
seeds and invite you in, inviteyou in, give you books, and you
resisted it.
I mean you've told me that yousaid, hey, sometimes they would
be having a Bible study, I hadnothing to do with it, I'd go
into a different room, but yourdad was faithful and he just
continued fertilizing the soiland for 29 years.
I'm guessing your dad Denny wasprayerfully waiting for the day
(14:04):
and it came in an unex wayprobably, but it was something,
that one of his little thingsthat he just continued to do.
So I think, as parents, for uswho are dads, we've got kids.
You know they don't.
They don't always receive itright away, you know.
And so even even when we werethrough some turbulent times
with our own children, you know,going through teenage years, I
(14:27):
kept thinking of your story,riley going.
God has a purpose and a planand he will use these things and
there is an appointed time whenmy kids will choose to follow
the way and they'll surrendertheir life over.
I would love for that to beright now, but there's something
else going on, and it's just anencouragement to those who've,
(14:49):
because that all makes who youare as a person.
That's your story.
That's part of you being amasterpiece created in God's
image, right?
All those things were part ofyour story, and so it's an
encouragement to me as a parent,and I hope it encourages others
who maybe have children who arewayward or rebellious even into
their 20s, that don't lose hope, right?
(15:12):
Don't lose hope.
God is faithful and continue tojust be there for your kids and
love them like your dad alwayswas for you.
I mean, I'm sure he got mad atyou a few times, right?
Amen.
Speaker 2 (15:21):
I wouldn't be here if it wasn't for my dad.
Yeah, so I could go all intothat message that you're sharing
, and even more, but obviouslyGod is our father.
Speaker 1 (15:37):
Anyway.
Speaker 2 (15:38):
I'm choking up because of emotion thinking
about my dad.
I wouldn't be here without mydad.
It was not always fun for him.
In fact, most of the times,especially between like 18 and
29, it was probably reallyunpleasant.
I mean, there were times whenas a kid and my dad knows this,
we've talked about it, he's mybest friend now, but there were
times when I actively would tryto do mean bad things to my dad
(16:00):
as a son and my dad humanly.
But he absorbed it, you know,and he kept his love for me and
that ended up being.
God used that to bring thatdevotion.
That ended up saving my soul.
Speaker 1 (16:14):
Yeah, it's so amazing and it is so encouraging.
You know, I've got a couple ofadult children now and it's more
difficult because they're outfrom underneath your wing, right
, I mean.
So it's even more difficultbecause you can't you watch the
destruction happen and you can'tdo anything about it.
And so, anyways, I just wantedyou to know, that man, that your
(16:35):
story has been an encouragementto me as a parent, the way your
dad navigated that with you,and to see where you're at today
, and so hopefully it'sencouragement to others.
All right, so you ready toenter the crucible?
Oh, I'm ready.
We're going to crank up thethermostat, we're going to crank
up the heat and we're going totalk about the crucible, a
moment in your life where theheat was cranked up.
(16:58):
We think of, maybe, theultimate crucible scenario.
Well, first of Christ himself,what he experienced in the
crucible moment and the glorythat came following that, when
he became truly a leader on fireand he emerged from the
resurrection and he has hisrightful place now.
But we can also think of thehuman, of Job.
(17:19):
Right, everybody knows thestory of Job and the crucible he
was in.
That was really difficult, andso a crucible is that time in
life where the heat is crankedup and God is using that to
refine, to melt away theimpurities, to melt away the
things that are distracting usfrom loving God fully with all
(17:40):
of our heart, soul, mind andstrength.
And when we're in thosecrucible moments it's usually
unpleasant and we usually arepraying desperately Lord, I just
want to get out of this.
I want to get out of whateverthe circumstance is.
Please get me out of this.
And sometimes that goes on forminutes, hours, days, weeks,
sometimes months, maybe evensometimes years.
But the crucible we endurehardship is discipline, because
(18:06):
it produces fruit, it producescharacter, produces all these
wonderful things.
It just really sucks when we'rein it.
So, entering the crucible,riley, share with us a season or
a moment in life where thecrucible was very difficult and
how you emerged, and basicallyyou're able to look back on that
(18:27):
season now and how you feel itshaped you.
Speaker 2 (18:32):
I've got plenty of examples to choose from in my
life, but the one that I thinkwould be most relevant here is
probably it's about 10 years ago, and so I started Humanity and
Hope in 2010, and this happenedin 2014, so I had a full time
(18:55):
job for the first four years.
I kept my corporate job.
I kept getting promoted.
I never really thought that anon-profit game would be my full
time thing.
And anyway, humanity and Hopeended up growing and, more
importantly, it actually endedup starting to help people,
especially through economicdevelopment, and so each time I
(19:15):
would go back down.
I guess in conjunction, itstarted bringing people down to
visit, so it started making adifference and bringing people
to see it, and I was one ofthose people both experiencing
it and then coming to watch it,and so it started pulling more
and more of my soul into it andyet less and less of my income.
I mean, I was giving money tothis thing.
(19:39):
It was difficult financially andthen I felt the call that this
is what my energy is for, thisis what my time is for, this is
what my time is for, this iswhat the best, some of the best
parts of me I didn't have afamily at that point.
Yet this is what the best partsof me are for.
So I started figuring out howto leave the corporate world,
how to change all theseexpectations I had about my
(20:02):
retirement account and my incomeand where I could live and what
I could drive.
And then, anyway, I ended upgetting to a point where I gave
it all up.
Another part so left thecorporate world.
Ended up I wasn't a believeryet ended up moving in with my
girlfriend I'll take you throughlike a five minute version of
(20:24):
this Moving in with mygirlfriend, who's now my wife.
So it ends up being a goodstory.
We end up.
So I go all in on myrelationship and humanity and
hope she and I break up on mybirthday.
So I moved back from Texas toIndiana.
I never wanted, at that pointwhen I was young, to live in
(20:47):
Indiana because I didn't, youknow, my parents had a business
here and I felt like if I wasworking for my parents' business
then I was taking the easy wayout.
And so, anyway, so I lose myjob, I lose my girlfriend, I
move in with my parents and thenI become a believer.
It was a really, really toughtime Found out that my
girlfriend now my wife waspregnant.
So I had to figure out okay, amI going to leave Indiana?
(21:09):
Am I going to be a presentfather?
Am I going to try to getmarried?
We ended up getting married.
Our son has congenitalcomplications.
He had to get skull surgery.
At the same time, I'mfundraising for humanity and
hope, while not even taking asalary I would have been paying
myself, and so I'm trying tofigure out if this career can
(21:30):
even be sustainable, navigatinga new marriage that I wasn't
expecting to be in, parenting achild with really serious health
challenges and I also wasn'texpecting to be a parent at that
time and I just remember, forprobably four years, especially
(21:52):
when the dry parts of thefunding cycle would come, which
is usually like August,september or it was back.
Then I remember I would pray toGod, like I know that you have
told me to follow you in thisway.
I know that you've told meyou've given me special
instructions and a specialvision and a download to my
(22:13):
heart, and yet it doesn't looklike anything's happening.
And it actually looks like themore that I'm obedient, maybe,
the worse my life gets, at leastin the short term.
And then I remember, on top ofthat, I started to have sort of
(22:34):
unfaithful thoughts about mycalling, about my career.
I'm like, well, maybe I shouldgo back into trying to make
money.
And so I started dabbling myfoot in that, dabbling my foot
in that, and I got an offer, ajob offer that would have been
like multiple times what I wasmaking before.
You know.
They were going to give me acar, they were going to give me
a house, but the catch was Ilive in Austin, it was in Dallas
(22:57):
, so it was three hours, fourdays a week, three hours away
from my wife and my newborn, andso that was the crucible for me
, or one of them.
I mean, I've had more than one,but that was a crucible.
It's like.
Will I really keep trying forthis when I don't see it?
Will I take an easy way out?
(23:18):
I mean, honestly, I was prayingfor God to release me.
I wasn't going to be dishonestabout it or leave if he didn't
tell me to, but constantly I wassaying, god, this doesn't seem
like you're here.
Let me out of this.
I don't enjoy it.
This isn't where I want to be.
I never.
This is never what I dreamed of.
(23:38):
Yeah, so that was.
That was the crucible.
How long was that season?
Well, it definitely started in2013.
And I would say the mostintense part of that season
lasted through 2015,.
Probably two years, the mostintense part of it, but I would
(23:59):
say overall, that season lasteduntil, like COVID.
Speaker 1 (24:05):
Yeah, I'm wondering too.
I feel like I remember I wasdriving south I think it's in
Nashville or something.
I feel like I was on the phonewith you during this time it
might've been 2014.
And I remember you strugglingwith.
I remember thinking, oh man, Ithink he's gonna like give this
(24:26):
up.
I don't remember theconversation specifically, but I
do remember being in the carand driving south on I-65, and
we were having a phone call.
It was early in ourrelationship and I just remember
you were really contemplatingis this something that you can
you know?
Because the finances justweren't.
It wasn't making sense, youweren't getting a salary at that
time and it was a reallydifficult season.
(24:48):
I think it was right around inthat same time period.
Speaker 2 (24:51):
I don't know if you remember that or not, but I
remember just being like yourlittle brother and just being
like sad and kind of like justventing my sadness to you.
Speaker 1 (25:03):
Yeah, I think that's yeah, that's what it was, and so
how long you know, I know youset up through COVID, but there
was a moment at which, or wasthere a moment at which, you,
like, feel like you were out ofthe crucible and you kind of had
this relief of the pressure andwhere you emerged and said,
okay, that's behind me, I'm nowout of the crucible.
(25:24):
That doesn't mean that thepressures didn't weren't still
there there weren't new ones ordifferent stressors but that
very specific crucible momentwas there, a moment that you
felt like you can look back andsay, okay, I'm through that and
I'm very clear of my calling.
The resources are now finallycoming in and I feel like we've
got a plan ahead of us.
Or did that take through 2023?
(25:48):
Or still, are you still in it?
Speaker 2 (25:52):
I remember the moment .
It was October 14th 2020.
And that happens to be when H&Hturned 10 years old and the
first 10 years had been manother than marriage like the
hardest thing, and man otherthan marriage like the hardest
thing the early parts ofmarriage it was.
It's harder than harder thansomething that I thought that I
(26:14):
could go through.
And then the 10 yearanniversary hits and, like
normal, you know, we're in thedry parts end of September,
early October.
I'm to the point of the yearwhere I'm normally praying for
God to release me from this andthis is so hard, and I remember
that wasn't my prayer that year.
I just felt like somethingdifferent was coming and on the
(26:35):
10-year anniversary I waspraying.
I was like God, give mesomething.
Like I know you, you're myfather, you got a gift for me.
Give me something, please giveme.
And just like a little kidwould the Bible says to do that
and so I was like, oh, I'm goingto give that a shot.
And then I remember he gave methe gift and it was you belong,
(27:03):
you're not pretending, you'vebeen doing this for 10 years.
And then these are the wordsthat stuck with me, that I wrote
down it's like all you got todo is keep showing up, wrote
down.
He's like all you got to do iskeep showing up.
And that was the moment for mewhen I knew that somehow I had
because in the beginning, like Itold you, the first mission
trip, like I fought my dad, Ididn't want to go.
And then at this point, I was aguy who had fought for what he
(27:23):
believed the God-inspired dreamsinside of him for 10 straight
years, through tons of hardship,the God-inspired dreams inside
of him for 10 straight years,through tons of hardship.
And at some point between pointA and point B, my identity
changed.
But I didn't realize it, likeit didn't become something that
I fully felt until that moment,that 10-year anniversary when
(27:44):
God was like, hey, you belong,just keep showing up.
That's when it felt like theweight lifted for me yeah, so
that was really.
Speaker 1 (27:49):
it was about a 10 year crucible.
I mean, there's probably highsand lows in there, but that
whole season was a crucible.
And I do remember a specific.
Actually I think it was when wewent down to respond to the
hurricanes, which would haveeither been that November of
2020 or the next year.
Do you remember which one itwas?
Speaker 2 (28:06):
Yeah, that was November of 2020.
Yeah, that was like the nextmonth.
Speaker 1 (28:09):
So we were on that trip together and I remember you
talking I mean, you weretalking differently.
I remember being inspired by youbecause it's like you had
resolved who you were, youseemed free in who you were and
you were still in the journey ofexploration of this, but there
was like a new identity that hademerged.
I specifically remember that andwe had some conversations
(28:30):
around that, and then thatthat's only continued, you know,
over the last few years, asI've, as we've continued to stay
in touch, um and so, yeah, I, Ivividly remember and I I didn't
put that together that it wasreally the month before that was
the 10 year anniversary andhear this horrific hurricane two
of them back to back, smashHonduras and we go down there,
(28:52):
and yeah, just the timing ofthat and and me being able to
spend that time with you andkind of seeing you in in a new
and you were what late thirtiesat that point, right, so for
those listening, sometimes ittakes a while, you know, and
there's going to be anotherchunk of crucible or season.
You know that you're going toenter into, as will I, but the
(29:15):
point is, is that being able tosee how, if you look back how
God is taking that to shape yourcharacter, all these
circumstances, and we have achoice within that right Like
you could have just quit, and Iknow you probably wanted to a
lot, just like I.
Within that right, like youcould have just quit and I know
you probably wanted to a lot,you're just like I'm done right.
Speaker 2 (29:31):
If you guys could see the emotional energy I put in,
because I know I'm going to meetGod face-to-face one day and I
couldn't quit if he didn't tellme I could.
I can't stand the thought of mebeing face-to-face and he's
like, hey, you quit.
And I was like, well, I justwanted to Like I'm not going to
be that guy, but I did.
I put so much, I put 110% intopraying for God to release me.
(29:55):
And now it's like you weresaying with the crucible.
And now I'm so thankful that hedid it.
I'm so thankful that he's gotan eternal perspective, that he
really both sees, knows andcares what's best for me.
Because, if it was just me, Iwould have quit a thousand times
.
I really would have.
And he gave me the power not to.
Speaker 1 (30:15):
Yeah, that's crazy.
Well, and just the fact thatyou spent so much energy praying
for a way out praying for a wayout, yeah, and hopefully
encouragement for thoselistening.
Like you just keep showing up.
It's one day at a time, maybesometimes one hour, one minute
at a time.
You just keep putting a foot infront of the other and you show
up Because there is somethingthat's at work, even though we
might not see it or feel itright in that moment.
(30:37):
But there was a lot of workhappening in you during that
time and it's probablynauseating to even think about
being back in that time.
It's painful.
Speaker 2 (30:46):
It's hard.
I being back in that time ispainful.
It's hard.
I mean, I've done a lot oftherapy, so I try to be able to
go back there because it's partof my testimony and I like to
share that power.
But yeah, those were reallyreally hard years, yeah, for
sure man.
Speaker 1 (30:58):
That's awesome.
So you truly did emerge as aleader on fire, because a leader
on fire is someone who is ableto really believe and have the
manifestation of the truth ofEphesians 2.10, which says we
are God's masterpiece, ourbaggage and all Amen.
(31:19):
We're his masterpiece.
And to be able to live in thatand to believe that and to know
that he's got good thingsprepared in advance for us to do
.
But if we quit and we don'tbelieve that and we don't keep
putting a foot in front of theother, we won't get to
experience that full, abundantblessing.
And then I love Ephesians 3.20.
So I love marrying these twoverses up together Ephesians
(31:41):
3.20, that he's able to domeasurely more than all we think
, ask or imagine, according tothe power of Christ that's
within us.
And we think, ask or imagineaccording to the power of Christ
that's within us.
And so when you couple thosetwo together, it's like it takes
those crucible moments toreally continue to shape our
character, for us to be able torest in that identity that we
are his masterpiece.
All the stuff that's happenedin the past is a part of that
(32:05):
masterpiece.
And that's why I love theacronym LOFI, because it's a
musical term and it's music thathas imperfections left in the
music to create a masterpiece.
Otherwise it wouldn't be thatkind of music and so, anyways, I
love that story.
So you emerged a leader on fireand you've got a powerful story
.
You've got an amazingorganization and you know, being
(32:26):
down there last week, seeing Ithink you have a team of 1800s
on the team down there and justsuch an amazing team, a lot of
great work going, and I wastalking to my kids about you and
I'm going.
You know what Riley saw thisand he took a step.
He just took one step forwardand look what's before you and
(32:48):
just the faithfulness of anindividual to keep putting his
foot in front of the other andto be able to see what is now
here and imagine what it's goingto be in another decade, you
know.
And so what a great testimonyof your story.
Now, you mentioned earlier inthe episode about generous
coffee and I wanted to go alittle further on that because
(33:10):
it was in Honduras.
It was me, you and Ben sittingin the back of the truck.
I think we were going down aroad.
I forget where we were at andwe were going.
How can we create a mechanism,a giving mechanism to help
generate resources for H&H, andwe thought coffee sounded like a
good idea, and I believe thatwas in 2016 or 17.
And so, for those who don'tknow the Generous story, it was
(33:33):
birthed.
That vision was birthed in thetrenches in Honduras, with a
couple of guys who were justdown there serving two board
members coming alongside you andsaying, hey, what can we create
?
That's gonna be a givingmechanism, and now, of course,
generous is giving to a lot moreorganizations, but it was
birthed out of this idea to helphumanity and hope, and it's
cool to see what they've gotgoing on now here in Warsaw.
(33:54):
So, again, I would say thatwithout that step that you took,
riley, generous wouldn't evenexist and my mornings would be
different, because I lovedrinking Generous coffee every
morning, and I have since westarted it, and so I selfishly
say thank you, riley, for beingfaithful in Honduras, otherwise
I would not have my cup ofgenerous coffee every morning.
(34:15):
So cheers, brother.
Speaker 2 (34:16):
And I would be sitting here shirtless.
That's true.
Speaker 1 (34:20):
Well, man, it's been awesome having you on the
episode.
I hope and pray that your storyand your testimony speak to
people, encourages them andinspires them, and also for
people that don't know aboutHumanity and Hope.
Go to humanityandhopeunitedorgand you can see all the
different things that H&H isdoing.
(34:41):
You can go on trips.
You can fill that full storyand also in my book, all In, I
shared a little bit.
I opened up with your story andI forget which chapter it was,
but so man, we've got chapteryeah, I think it was seven or
eight Good memory, um.
So I appreciate you being a partof that.
So we've got so many things inour lives that have intersected
in ways we didn't really plan orintend years ago, when we were
(35:04):
just trying to be friends andliving life together.
So I love how our storiescontinue to overlap, um, and I'm
looking forward to how it'sgoing to continue to unfold.
So thanks for coming andjoining this man.
This is awesome.
Thanks for the invite man,looking forward to the next one.
All right, appreciate yourbrother.
Thank you for listening totoday's episode.
(35:25):
Perhaps it has prompted apainful memory or challenged you
to reflect on times you were inthe crucible.
Some of you may be in acrucible now, but be encouraged.
Maybe, just maybe, god is usingthis to refine your character
so that you emerge as a leaderon fire.
If today's episode was anencouragement to you, share it
(35:48):
with others who may also findencouragement in the leaders on
fire podcast.
So let's go into the world sentout as leaders on fire until
next time.
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