October 3, 2024 • 32 mins
What happens when your faith is tested to the point of transformation? Join us on this compelling episode of the Leaders on Fire podcast as we sit down with Rod Mayer, a leader whose journey of faith and personal growth has redefined his approach to life and leadership. Rod opens up about finding his purpose through a deep relationship with Christ, which has shaped his roles as a husband, father, and entrepreneur. Through a powerful metaphor of the crucible, Rod shares how facing trials not only tested his leadership but also refined him into a passionate leader on fire.
We shift gears to a poignant personal testimony of transformation, where the journey from turmoil to spiritual awakening unfolds. On December 10, 1992, a pivotal moment marked the beginning of a profound change, steering away from a life marked by struggles such as alcohol abuse. The story takes a heartfelt turn with the depiction of Ann Margaret, whose short life brought immense challenges but also a strengthened faith and renewed leadership. This narrative unfolds themes of loss, redemption, and the enduring power of faith through adversity.
As our conversation progresses, we delve into the trials that often feel overwhelming, comparing them to a forest fire that seems to engulf hope. By highlighting faith and community as pillars of strength, we offer insights into navigating these moments with resilience. Rod, alongside other inspiring leaders, illustrates how embracing these 'crucible' moments can ignite a passion for leadership and personal growth. This episode promises hope and encouragement, suggesting that the challenges we face are integral to shaping effective, passionate leaders who inspire others on their journey.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
This is the Leaders on Fire podcast brought to you
by C4One, whose vision is tocreate a marketplace revival
that is redeeming lives andtransforming communities.
On this show, we'll be invitingguests in to talk about
crucible moments in their livesand unpack how it developed
character and perseverance andhow they emerged as leaders on
(00:21):
fire.
We hope that this podcast is anencouragement and an
inspiration to you.
Today we have our first guestwith us, Rod Meyer.
I'd like to introduce you tohim and get things kicked off.
Are you ready?
Let's light the fire.
Hey, Rod, Welcome to theLeaders on Fire podcast.
(00:43):
Man, I'm so excited to have youas part of this first show.
It's an exciting day, it's ourdebut podcast and I thought it'd
be fitting to have you be thefirst guy we interview on here.
Man, you're a well-respectedleader in our community, in the
church, in the marketplace.
I've really come to know youpretty well over the last few
months and just love your heartfor the Lord, love your heart
(01:07):
for people, and welcome to theshow, man.
Speaker 2 (01:10):
Man, it's great to be here and you know, drew, I've
known of you but I've not knownyou.
But over the last few months,just right back at you, I have
such an appreciation for howyou're using the gifts and
talents and skills that you'vebeen given.
No question that this was ameticulous, providential event,
bringing us together and superexcited about being here today.
(01:31):
Really love the concept behindthis and I'm confident that
that's going to be used mightilyto set other leaders on fire
for sure.
Speaker 1 (01:40):
Awesome.
Well, let's go to our firstsegment and light the fire.
So, rod, give us a little bitof background about who you are.
Speaker 2 (01:51):
You know where would you like me to begin?
You know that's I want to beunderstanding of the time
constraints here today, but I'dhave to first of all start with
what's most important.
You know I'm 65 years of agefrom a chronological perspective
, but I'm really someone who's32 years of age.
I had my life radicallytransformed on December the 10th
(02:13):
, 1992.
At 3.30 in the morning I cameto know Christ as my Lord and my
Savior and, candidly, he's theleader that I want to follow.
From that time it's given me awhole new perspective on what
does it mean to be a leader andwhat is the responsibilities
that go along with that.
And so I would classify myselffirst of all as a radical
(02:36):
follower of Christ.
I'm a husband now of 32 years,blessed with five children
ranging in age from 37 down to21, and have one daughter who is
with Jesus and can't wait oneday to see Ann-Margaret Meyer
again.
Absolutely passionate about themarketplace and we'll probably
(02:58):
get into that today but in asnapshot radical follower of
Christ, entrepreneur and apassionate leader who's
following the greatest leader ofall times.
Speaker 1 (03:08):
Awesome.
Well, that gets me excited tohear that, which is why I wanted
you to be the first guest.
Man.
Love what you're about.
It's awesome.
Okay, so now that we've lit inthe fire a little bit, let's fan
the flame.
Let's talk about today what thecrucible is.
(03:29):
The crucible is kind of themain event of the podcast we're
going to get into here in alittle bit, but before we get
there, let's warm things up alittle bit and talk about what
is a crucible and what do wemean by that.
So when I say the word crucible, what comes to mind to you, rod
?
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (03:45):
I can't help but think of the cross.
I can't help but think aboutwhat Christ endured for us,
someone who went through a timeof suffering like no other, but
we're going to go through thatsuffering ourselves, this side
of glory, and so that cruciblemaybe a thought would be.
It's used as an instrument towork a purification process in
(04:08):
all of us as leaders.
Speaker 1 (04:10):
Awesome yeah, that's a good way to put that man.
And when we look to scriptures,we see that the crucible and
the refiner's fire is reallyused as a metaphor in the way
that you're talking.
And when we talk about thecrucible, what it is is it's a
melting pot, right, it's thisfurnace that's really, really
hot, that you put preciousmetals in and it melts away the
(04:32):
impurities.
And a silversmith knows whenthe silver is ready to come out
of the crucible, when he can seehis reflection and similar to
that with God, when we're goingthrough these trials, when we're
in the crucible, when we'reunder this intense pressure and
this heat and the impurities arebeing melted away.
When he can see his image andwhen we reflect that image, we
(04:56):
come out of the crucible refinedby the refiner's fire, right,
the impurities melted away andwe truly emerge with rich
character and I might say thatwe'd be a leader on fire.
(05:16):
So as we move into this nextsection, rod, I want you to
think about a season of life ora time that comes to mind, when
you were in the crucible.
And nobody enjoys the crucible,but scripture tells us that
we're going to face trials,we're going to suffer, we're
going to face persecution.
We're going to face challenges,and when we stick through those
, we know that that producesperseverance, and that
(05:39):
perseverance produces character,and that character produces
hope, produces character, andthat character produces hope,
and we come out stronger than wewere before.
So let's take some time, rod,and I'd like you to share about
a crucible experience what thatwas like for you and how it
(06:00):
shaped your leadership and whoyou are today.
Speaker 2 (06:01):
You know, for the listening audience, this was not
something we prepared for.
So what immediately comes tomind and this thought just
resonates with me today?
We can't separate our vocation,our professional careers, from
our personal lives, and I thinkthe first time that I went
(06:22):
through the refiner's fire waswhen I was very young in my
faith.
But we had received news thatour little daughter was going to
be flown to Riley Children'sHospital in a helicopter and
Annie went through seven days ofsome intense surgery.
A lot of questions in my mindabout why would God allow
something like this to happen,watching my wife struggle with
(06:48):
this being her firstborn.
No question that was the firstcrucible experience where a lot
of doubt, a lot of fear of theunknown, not knowing how to
respond to a wife that needed areally strong husband at that
time.
And you know what was theoutcome of that A man who was
(07:09):
desperate for an answer got ananswer from the living and
enduring Word of God and Ireally look back on that and he
would have been 29 years of agejust this month, on April the
25th.
I really believe God used thatfor a lot of different reasons,
but it caused me from thatmoment on, to trust his word.
(07:29):
So I'll take that very personaltime of a lot of impurities
being driven out of me,questions of doubt.
Who is this God that wouldallow something like this to
happen?
Can I find answers from hisword?
How do I apply his word into mylife at a time just like this,
(07:53):
you know, and out of thatexperience came our life passage
as a family.
It's Philippians 4, 4 through 7.
And we challenge ourselves torejoice in our Lord always.
And he tells us a second time,saying I'm going to make
emphasis on this rejoice in mealways.
And then he reminds us to begentle because he's near.
He tells us in that word not tobe anxious, drew about anything
(08:15):
, but in everything, by prayerand petition, with thanksgiving,
to present our request to God.
And then he gives us this greatpromise that the peace of God
that transcends allunderstanding will guard our
hearts and our minds in ChristJesus.
Shana Beth, to this day, oftenreminds me if we could
experience that and survive it,get through it, even as
(08:38):
difficult as it was.
The fire of that moment, man,everything else pales in
comparison.
Fire of that moment, man,everything else pales in
comparison, and that's beensomething that's proven itself
through the last 29 years of mylife from a professional
perspective.
So a segue to that imaginehaving a team of about 30
families and it's a Sundaymorning and I'm sitting outside
(09:03):
behind our home and the onlyother person other than me who
knew this following fact was ourchief financial officer.
We were two weeks away fromneeding to make payroll and did
not have the financial resourcesto be able to make that payroll
Again.
Radical follower of Christ, Italked with him like I'm talking
(09:25):
with you today, drew, but I wasa broken man.
I thought, lord, I've doneeverything you've asked me to do
, we've been successful up tothis point, accomplishing the
things that we've set out toaccomplish.
But I was broken, and broken tothe point again questioning God
, questioning myself Am I reallythe leader that I think I am?
(09:48):
And then, on that particularday, I simply said I need to
hear from you again Now.
I love all of his word, but areading plan that I was on with
another leader, my best friend.
We were in the Old Testamentand I was to be in the book of
Chronicles that day and I reallythought to myself what am I
(10:09):
going to get from this being inthe book of Chronicles?
But I'll share with you, drew,so others can hear this.
I wanted an answer.
I needed to have some hope.
Broken, desperate, had no ideahow we were going to meet
payroll two weeks from now.
And then I opened up this Bibleand on that particular day,
(10:30):
sitting outside as my eyes whichrequire glasses now drew, I
started to come down throughthat and things that jumped out
to me was the request from Godto listen to him, and then the
Lord reminding me that if I stayclose to him, he'll stay close
to me.
Was the request from God tolisten to him, and then the Lord
reminding me that if I stayclose to him, he'll stay close
to me and that if I seek him,he'll be found.
(10:53):
And then I dropped down to theseventh verse, and this is where
I truly believe that he lovesus so much.
He speaks to us Now.
It wasn't an audible, audiblevoice, but it was a definitive
statement put your name righthere.
And this verse says but as foryou and I used my full name that
my mother used to say when Iwas in trouble but as for you,
(11:15):
rodney keith meyer, be strong,do not give up, for your work
will be rewarded.
That was written on June 17thof that particular year.
Amazing things happened, butthat day I symbolically said I'm
going to put a flag in theground and, because of faith,
(11:38):
I'm going to believe that he isgoing to do something.
He did it.
We had an investor show up thathad heard about our capital
raise.
An investment of $500,000 wasmade.
Within the same week I got atext message from an executive
of a local orthopedic companythat wanted to talk about a
distribution agreement that ledinto a contract where $2.5
(12:02):
million was provided to ourcompany.
You know, one of the names ofGod that you know, drew, is
Jehovah Jireh.
He's our provider, and so, eventhough I was going through a
very difficult time as a leader,he brought me to the point
where I was completely brokenand completely dependent, and I
think personally, that's wheremany of us, if not all of us,
(12:23):
need to be brought to thatmoment in time where we're just
emptied of ourself and I almostimagine that metal having a
personality.
First of all, the metallurgistis taking that metal and pouring
it into the pot, and thetemperatures become incredibly
(12:43):
intense, and if you were thatmetal, you'd probably start
crying out.
This is not a pleasantexperience.
What are you doing?
But you described it so well insome of your opening comments
that you know that impurityneeds to be taken out of us and
that refiner's fire that leadersare going to go through.
If you think you're going to bea leader and not go through the
(13:04):
fire, I would question whetheryou're really a leader, because
I think there's a plan thatmakes us much stronger when he
takes us through that refiner'sfire.
But that end result is that theimpurities are taken out and it
becomes pure and themetallurgist can do what he
wants with that metal, perhapsconforming it and shaping it
(13:24):
into something that he wants itto be.
To bring, if you will,accolades to him as the
metallurgist, and I think that'show God works.
I think he takes us as leadersand says I love you.
My son's paid the price for you, got some work to do in order
to conform you into who I wantyou to be, and it's not going to
be a pleasant process, but theend result is incredible.
(13:47):
We become stronger leaders with, I think, a greater desire to
even be better as we lead,because we went through that
time of refinement.
Speaker 1 (13:58):
Okay, rod, I want to take a second here and go a
little deeper and ask you aquestion, and I know it's
painful, but it's impactful.
And I think if you're willingto share a little bit further
around your daughter's story andthen specifically, yeah, the
story of your salvation.
(14:19):
It's amazing.
I'd love to hear that if youwouldn't mind sharing it.
Speaker 2 (14:24):
That's a lot to get in a short period of time, but
you know just quickly about mysalvation, though.
It was from a five-year-olddaughter sharing a verse out of
the Old Testament, isaiah 53, 6.
She recited it perfectly we all, like sheep, have gone astray.
Each of us has turned into hisown way and the Lord has laid
upon him the iniquity of us all.
(14:44):
I didn't say it out loud, butinternal conviction of anger,
and I literally said how dareyou convict me of my sin through
my daughter?
I hate you.
That was directed toward God.
The rest of the story would takea lot of time, but eight hours
later, after candidly drinkingmyself into a state of
(15:05):
drunkenness, numbing the pain ofwhat I just heard, but numbing
a lot of pain that was going onin my life personally and
professionally, I headed down tomy office in Indianapolis, but
at 3.30 in the morning I plannedout my suicide, drew, and I
called out for hope.
I called out and really askedthe Lord if he would forgive me
(15:26):
of the life I had been living,and he heard that prayer and
that was an immediate change.
So my real birthday is December, the 10th 1992, at 3.30 in the
morning.
Much more to my testimony, butthat was a new beginning for a
34-year-old leader, a34-year-old entrepreneur but,
(15:48):
candidly, a 34-year-oldentrepreneur and leader that was
chasing after everything thatthe world had to offer.
And I often tell other leaderson that day I lost everything
but I gained everything.
I gained a personalrelationship with Christ, my
Lord and my Savior, and you'llhear me often say that I'm a
radical follower of Jesus and Ithink he's the greatest leader
(16:11):
of all time.
The story of Ann Margaret I wentthrough a divorce because of
the life that I had lived and Iopenly want to say on this
podcast I failed as a husbandand I failed as a father.
But he's a God of hope.
I believe he's a God of secondchances.
God takes some really badthings and he ends up doing some
(16:33):
really good things.
So Shana and I will becelebrating our 32nd anniversary
this year, lord willing, andwithin a few years of being
married, she was pregnant.
Few years of being married, shewas pregnant and she carried
that child full term andMargaret was born on April, the
(16:54):
25th 1995.
We brought her home from a localhospital in Fort Wayne
Absolutely a beautiful, angelicbaby.
You know, a real hard lesson.
Men can be this way.
Sometimes we don't listen toour wives and Shana knew
something was wrong.
And we woke up to a little babywith a high fever and her
little tummy was distended.
(17:15):
It was black and blue and weknew something was wrong.
We headed right to Fort Wayneand the next thing we knew our
daughter had actually coded inthe hospital as a little infant
and they got her back but thenimmediately said we need to
transport her to RileyChildren's Hospital.
So here we were in Fort Wayne.
We didn't have anything elseother than our truck and I
(17:37):
happened to have the Bible inthe truck and, again, fairly new
follower of Christ at the time,headed to Indianapolis, walked
through the ER, down thecorridors.
Out from the OR came Dr KarenWesta, gifted surgeon at Riley
Children's Hospital.
She told us that AnneMargaret's large and small
intestines were twisted aroundher bladder and that she had to
(18:00):
be taken immediately intosurgery.
Dr West sensed that we wereahusband and wife of faith and
instructed us to pray for herhands and Annie survived that
surgery.
Yet we were told you need topray for every 12 hours that she
lives.
There'll be hope.
Most likely she's going to haveto be cared for, but there's
(18:25):
hope for her to live.
Drew, that night I was veryangry toward God.
I had a lot of questions of howcould a God of love allow
something like this to happen?
A beautiful, angelic baby girland looked at my wife who had
finally fallen asleep.
She was exhausted from givingbirth to bringing her child home
(18:48):
, to having her child airlifted,and I just was angry.
I've shared this publicly andI'll share it now with you and
our listeners today.
I asked for an answer and I hadno idea where to go.
At that time.
My Bible was a nice, shiny bluestudy Bible and I opened it up
(19:08):
and it fell to the 139th Psalmand in that Psalm it tells us
that every one of us has beenfearfully and wonderfully made
and that every day is ordainedfor us before any of them even
come to be.
And I receive that, lookingback now, with childlike faith.
I woke my wife up.
(19:29):
I asked her if we believed thatGod's Word was truth.
Shana can be pretty direct attimes and she said well,
absolutely, shana can be prettydirect at times and she said
well, absolutely.
Every year that I celebrate AnnMargaret Meyer, she only lives
seven days.
She was taken home, we believe,by faith, but God used Ann
(19:52):
Margaret Meyer in her father'slife to believe his word and to
put that word into practice andapply it in our lives.
As a leader today, and a leaderwho's been through refining
moments in my life, I don'tthink any greater than that
moment, and if we can perseverethrough that my wife says we can
persevere through anything soincredibly difficult time but,
(20:14):
man, so much good came from itand I think it really began to
be used by God to shape me intowho I am today and, most
importantly, who, whom I desireto be like as I continue to, to
live this life, this side ofglory, as a leader on fire.
Speaker 1 (20:31):
Man, thanks for sharing that Um.
So what do you think is thesignificance of in the impact of
the, the crucible going goingthrough that crucible of Thayne
Margaret and the loss of of thatbeautiful angel a few years
prior, um, your other daughter,bringing you to salvation by
giving you a piece of scripture?
(20:51):
Um, had that experience nothappened if it wasn't for your
other daughter, how do you thinkyou would have handled the
situation?
Speaker 2 (20:59):
Listen, there's no way I would have survived the
old Rod Meyer.
I would have gone to anabundance of alcohol to numb the
pain, I would have continued tolive the lifestyle that I was
living, candidly, really notcaring about anything else other
than myself.
And there's no way.
There's no way I would havegotten through that.
And so I look back greatquestion, Drew, because, looking
(21:21):
back on that again, God'stiming is always perfect.
And yeah, I lost everything.
You think about going throughdivorce.
You think about building for acareer and establishing your
401ks and having sufficientfunds to start, thinking about
retirement and joining threecountry clubs and all the things
that you do when you're chasingafter the things of the world.
(21:43):
And looking back on that, I sayit often I lost everything.
From a worldly perspective, Igained everything.
So yeah, it's interesting, Godused two daughters in just
miraculous ways in their dad'slife.
Speaker 1 (21:56):
Man.
That's incredible.
That's an incredible story, Rod.
But both of those both thecrucible situation of your
daughter, which is very moving,and then also the crucible of
the situation just described inyour job with the business you
are running, and can you speakinto this?
So God clearly can use fire todestroy things right, we see
(22:21):
that throughout Scripture.
But in this particular case,the refiner's fire isn't
intended to destroy, right, it'sto refine.
But were there moments where youfelt like it was a forest fire,
Like, oh man, is there a wayout of this thing?
Were there some intense momentsthat you either questioned what
(22:43):
was happening, that youcouldn't see this idea of hope
at the end of it, that you werein it and blinded Because I'm
assuming that there's listenersright now that might be in a
crucible, that can't see out ofit.
And when you're in it it'sdifficult and you just want out.
Maybe day after day, minuteafter minute, you're praying and
(23:03):
you're asking God just providefor this or get me out of this
pain or this suffering Sometime.
That lasts for a long time.
So were there moments where youwere in it and you couldn't see
out of it?
Or moments that the forest wason fire and you thought it was
all going to all going to burnup.
Can you speak into anythinglike that?
Speaker 2 (23:23):
yeah, without question.
As I think back on thatparticular time, um, I'd say the
fire of uncertainty, the fireof of almost panic, like I don't
see a light, if will, at theend of the tunnel.
I can't get through this fire,I'm going to be consumed by it.
But then there's that momentwhere you realize who is it that
(23:47):
I'm going to find my hope from?
Who is it that I'm going toseek and ask he's faithful to do
that.
He's faithful to do that.
But it is tough.
I would never want tocommunicate to you or our
listeners that it's a pleasantexperience.
It's an incredibly difficultexperience, but you know he is
(24:08):
the God of hope and if we trulybelieve that, as the refiner,
the good will be seen from thatperiod of refinement.
That's what you hold on to.
You hold on to hope and I thinktoo, you hold on to faith and
you ask for greater faith,because faith is certain of that
which we hope for and certainabout the things we can't see,
(24:31):
but if we truly believe in God'sWord and listen again, the
reason why I would say I'm onfire as a leader is because I'm
on fire as a follower and I wantto have a life for, whatever
the length it will yet be, toknow Christ and make Him known
in the context of influencingleaders in the marketplace to be
(24:54):
radical followers of Christ andthen to apply his word in our
lives as a leader.
You know someone coined thephrase this is the Bible, but
it's basic instructions beforeleaving earth.
I mean, that's a great manualfor leaders, right?
And this is where we can findour answers.
Equally so, drew, we need eachother.
You know we need each other togo through fires together.
(25:16):
I imagine what it's like to befirefighters who go battle a
fire in a forest.
They can't do it alone.
They go as a team and manytimes I think, they do go off
two by two and they have veryspecific things they have to do
together.
We need each other inleadership.
We need other leaders to helpus when we go through these
(25:37):
difficult times.
Speaker 1 (25:39):
Thanks, man, very, very well said.
Appreciate you sharing that.
So when I look at 1 Peter 1, 6and 7, it says this these trials
will show that your faith isgenuine.
It is being tested as firetests and purifies gold, though
your faith is far more preciousthan gold.
(25:59):
So when your faith remainsstrong through many trials, it
will bring much praise and gloryand honor on the day when Jesus
Christ is revealed to the wholeworld, so that, in conjunction
with Proverbs, the crucible forsilver and the furnace for gold.
But the Lord tests the heartRight, and so can you just speak
(26:21):
to like the, the, the heart.
It's almost like a circumcisionof the heart right, like you're
going through this process andwhen you're on the other side of
the crucible you can look backand see the work that was done,
um, and when you're in it youmight not recognize that, you
might just have hope that it'sgoing to come.
Now that you're on the otherside and you're out of that
(26:43):
crucible and you can look backat those and you saw that God
was trimming away some things ofthe heart, that God was using
these trials to refine you.
What's your reflection and kindof final encouragement for our
listeners on the other side ofthe crucible, as a leader on
fire.
I mean, you're living it outnow and I would expect that
(27:06):
you're not hopeful of anothercrucible experience although
there's probably a good chanceyou'll have one or some but
right now you're living as aleader on fire.
So, in reflection, how mightyou encourage those who are in a
crucible now and how thatreally impacted you being on the
(27:27):
other side of it?
Speaker 2 (27:28):
looking back, Look to the God of hope.
First thing, look to the God ofhope.
It's interesting you use thephrase look back, and many times
in the Old Testament we're toldremember, remember.
I'm so thankful for thatexperience because it's a strong
anchor, it's a strongfoundation for me to go back and
(27:51):
remember.
Remember Ann Margaret Meyer,remember that seven-day period.
How difficult that was on somany fronts.
But, man, the good that cameout of it is her dad made a
commitment from that day forward.
This is truth and this issomething I can apply in my life
as a husband, as a father, as agrandfather and as a radical
(28:15):
follower of Christ that has adesire to be a leader on fire is
to remember, to hold steadfastto faith.
You know, you just read thatbeautiful passage and I believe
when we go through thesedifficult times for the listener
that's going through adifficult time right now don't
give up hope.
Look to the God of hope, lookto another leader to come
(28:36):
alongside you.
You don't have to walk.
Come alongside you.
You don't have to walk throughthese fires.
You don't have to go throughthis refining process alone For
those who have been blessed witha wife.
Listen to the counsel of yourwife, and you know God's word
says victory is assured in themultitude of advisors, find that
advisory team to come alongsideyou during these difficult
times of refinement.
(28:57):
For me, it's all aboutremembering and going back to
what he's already done beforeand just having absolute
childlike faith.
We have a father who knowswhat's best for us and, you know
, sometimes my kids call me theBible man and I guess that's
somewhat of a compliment, but Ihope that what they see is their
(29:20):
dad puts God's Word intopractice and he says for we can
say this that we know that inall things God works for the
good of those who love him,who've been called according to
his purpose, for those heforeknew.
He predestined to be conformedin the image of his Son.
That's a refining process.
My greatest desire I want toknow Christ and make him known.
(29:42):
Greatest leader of all time, aservant leader, one who had
compassion on those that hecalled to come and follow him.
I can't say enough about thedesire to challenge other
leaders to lead like Christ.
And so, man, I'm thankful forthose times of refinement.
They're going to keep coming,because there's still impurities
(30:04):
in me, I still battle me and Ithink one of the greatest things
that I had to fight was my ownpride.
I want to solve these problems.
I want to figure out a way.
I don't want to show my concernto other team members.
I don't want to be perceived asweak.
That's pride and man thatneeded to be taken out of me,
(30:25):
and every once in a while itstill raises its ugly head.
So I'll keep asking my fatherif necessary, keep refining me,
because I want to be that impureor that pure not impure, but
that pure material for him touse, and use in such a way he
gets the glory and he gets thehonor and he gets the praise.
Speaker 1 (30:45):
Man Rod, thanks for sharing all that, thanks for
being vulnerable and giving ourlisteners a glimpse into your
life and some of thosechallenging times, and hopefully
people are encouraged andmotivated to live life as a
leader on fire and to embracethese crucible moments, as
difficult as they may be,knowing that there is a hope and
(31:06):
that we can put our hope in God, as you had said.
So thanks for joining us today.
Speaker 2 (31:10):
On the show man.
It's been a pleasure.
Look forward to future podcastsof hearing other leaders who
are on fire.
It's going to be awesome.
Speaker 1 (31:17):
Awesome man.
Thanks, brother, you bet, Thankyou.
Thank you for listening totoday's episode.
Perhaps it has prompted apainful memory or challenged you
to reflect on times you were inthe crucible.
Some of you may be in acrucible now, but be encouraged.
Maybe, just maybe, God is usingthis to refine your character
(31:42):
so that you emerge as a leaderon fire.
If today's episode was anencouragement to you, share it
with others who may also findencouragement in the Leaders on
Fire podcast.
So let's go into the world sentout as leaders on fire Until
(32:12):
next time.
This is the Leaders on Fire podcast brought to you
by C4One, whose vision is tocreate a marketplace revival
that is redeeming lives andtransforming communities.
On this show, we'll be invitingguests in to talk about
crucible moments in their livesand unpack how it developed
character and perseverance andhow they emerged as leaders on
(00:21):
fire.
We hope that this podcast is anencouragement and an
inspiration to you.
Today we have our first guestwith us, Rod Meyer.
I'd like to introduce you tohim and get things kicked off.
Are you ready?
Let's light the fire.
Hey, Rod, Welcome to theLeaders on Fire podcast.
(00:43):
Man, I'm so excited to have youas part of this first show.
It's an exciting day, it's ourdebut podcast and I thought it'd
be fitting to have you be thefirst guy we interview on here.
Man, you're a well-respectedleader in our community, in the
church, in the marketplace.
I've really come to know youpretty well over the last few
months and just love your heartfor the Lord, love your heart
(01:07):
for people, and welcome to theshow, man.
Speaker 2 (01:10):
Man, it's great to be here and you know, drew, I've
known of you but I've not knownyou.
But over the last few months,just right back at you, I have
such an appreciation for howyou're using the gifts and
talents and skills that you'vebeen given.
No question that this was ameticulous, providential event,
bringing us together and superexcited about being here today.
(01:31):
Really love the concept behindthis and I'm confident that
that's going to be used mightilyto set other leaders on fire
for sure.
Speaker 1 (01:40):
Awesome.
Well, let's go to our firstsegment and light the fire.
So, rod, give us a little bitof background about who you are.
Speaker 2 (01:51):
You know where would you like me to begin?
You know that's I want to beunderstanding of the time
constraints here today, but I'dhave to first of all start with
what's most important.
You know I'm 65 years of agefrom a chronological perspective
, but I'm really someone who's32 years of age.
I had my life radicallytransformed on December the 10th
(02:13):
, 1992.
At 3.30 in the morning I cameto know Christ as my Lord and my
Savior and, candidly, he's theleader that I want to follow.
From that time it's given me awhole new perspective on what
does it mean to be a leader andwhat is the responsibilities
that go along with that.
And so I would classify myselffirst of all as a radical
(02:36):
follower of Christ.
I'm a husband now of 32 years,blessed with five children
ranging in age from 37 down to21, and have one daughter who is
with Jesus and can't wait oneday to see Ann-Margaret Meyer
again.
Absolutely passionate about themarketplace and we'll probably
(02:58):
get into that today but in asnapshot radical follower of
Christ, entrepreneur and apassionate leader who's
following the greatest leader ofall times.
Speaker 1 (03:08):
Awesome.
Well, that gets me excited tohear that, which is why I wanted
you to be the first guest.
Man.
Love what you're about.
It's awesome.
Okay, so now that we've lit inthe fire a little bit, let's fan
the flame.
Let's talk about today what thecrucible is.
(03:29):
The crucible is kind of themain event of the podcast we're
going to get into here in alittle bit, but before we get
there, let's warm things up alittle bit and talk about what
is a crucible and what do wemean by that.
So when I say the word crucible, what comes to mind to you, rod
?
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (03:45):
I can't help but think of the cross.
I can't help but think aboutwhat Christ endured for us,
someone who went through a timeof suffering like no other, but
we're going to go through thatsuffering ourselves, this side
of glory, and so that cruciblemaybe a thought would be.
It's used as an instrument towork a purification process in
(04:08):
all of us as leaders.
Speaker 1 (04:10):
Awesome yeah, that's a good way to put that man.
And when we look to scriptures,we see that the crucible and
the refiner's fire is reallyused as a metaphor in the way
that you're talking.
And when we talk about thecrucible, what it is is it's a
melting pot, right, it's thisfurnace that's really, really
hot, that you put preciousmetals in and it melts away the
(04:32):
impurities.
And a silversmith knows whenthe silver is ready to come out
of the crucible, when he can seehis reflection and similar to
that with God, when we're goingthrough these trials, when we're
in the crucible, when we'reunder this intense pressure and
this heat and the impurities arebeing melted away.
When he can see his image andwhen we reflect that image, we
(04:56):
come out of the crucible refinedby the refiner's fire, right,
the impurities melted away andwe truly emerge with rich
character and I might say thatwe'd be a leader on fire.
(05:16):
So as we move into this nextsection, rod, I want you to
think about a season of life ora time that comes to mind, when
you were in the crucible.
And nobody enjoys the crucible,but scripture tells us that
we're going to face trials,we're going to suffer, we're
going to face persecution.
We're going to face challenges,and when we stick through those
, we know that that producesperseverance, and that
(05:39):
perseverance produces character,and that character produces
hope, produces character, andthat character produces hope,
and we come out stronger than wewere before.
So let's take some time, rod,and I'd like you to share about
a crucible experience what thatwas like for you and how it
(06:00):
shaped your leadership and whoyou are today.
Speaker 2 (06:01):
You know, for the listening audience, this was not
something we prepared for.
So what immediately comes tomind and this thought just
resonates with me today?
We can't separate our vocation,our professional careers, from
our personal lives, and I thinkthe first time that I went
(06:22):
through the refiner's fire waswhen I was very young in my
faith.
But we had received news thatour little daughter was going to
be flown to Riley Children'sHospital in a helicopter and
Annie went through seven days ofsome intense surgery.
A lot of questions in my mindabout why would God allow
something like this to happen,watching my wife struggle with
(06:48):
this being her firstborn.
No question that was the firstcrucible experience where a lot
of doubt, a lot of fear of theunknown, not knowing how to
respond to a wife that needed areally strong husband at that
time.
And you know what was theoutcome of that A man who was
(07:09):
desperate for an answer got ananswer from the living and
enduring Word of God and Ireally look back on that and he
would have been 29 years of agejust this month, on April the
25th.
I really believe God used thatfor a lot of different reasons,
but it caused me from thatmoment on, to trust his word.
(07:29):
So I'll take that very personaltime of a lot of impurities
being driven out of me,questions of doubt.
Who is this God that wouldallow something like this to
happen?
Can I find answers from hisword?
How do I apply his word into mylife at a time just like this,
(07:53):
you know, and out of thatexperience came our life passage
as a family.
It's Philippians 4, 4 through 7.
And we challenge ourselves torejoice in our Lord always.
And he tells us a second time,saying I'm going to make
emphasis on this rejoice in mealways.
And then he reminds us to begentle because he's near.
He tells us in that word not tobe anxious, drew about anything
(08:15):
, but in everything, by prayerand petition, with thanksgiving,
to present our request to God.
And then he gives us this greatpromise that the peace of God
that transcends allunderstanding will guard our
hearts and our minds in ChristJesus.
Shana Beth, to this day, oftenreminds me if we could
experience that and survive it,get through it, even as
(08:38):
difficult as it was.
The fire of that moment, man,everything else pales in
comparison.
Fire of that moment, man,everything else pales in
comparison, and that's beensomething that's proven itself
through the last 29 years of mylife from a professional
perspective.
So a segue to that imaginehaving a team of about 30
families and it's a Sundaymorning and I'm sitting outside
(09:03):
behind our home and the onlyother person other than me who
knew this following fact was ourchief financial officer.
We were two weeks away fromneeding to make payroll and did
not have the financial resourcesto be able to make that payroll
Again.
Radical follower of Christ, Italked with him like I'm talking
(09:25):
with you today, drew, but I wasa broken man.
I thought, lord, I've doneeverything you've asked me to do
, we've been successful up tothis point, accomplishing the
things that we've set out toaccomplish.
But I was broken, and broken tothe point again questioning God
, questioning myself Am I reallythe leader that I think I am?
(09:48):
And then, on that particularday, I simply said I need to
hear from you again Now.
I love all of his word, but areading plan that I was on with
another leader, my best friend.
We were in the Old Testamentand I was to be in the book of
Chronicles that day and I reallythought to myself what am I
(10:09):
going to get from this being inthe book of Chronicles?
But I'll share with you, drew,so others can hear this.
I wanted an answer.
I needed to have some hope.
Broken, desperate, had no ideahow we were going to meet
payroll two weeks from now.
And then I opened up this Bibleand on that particular day,
(10:30):
sitting outside as my eyes whichrequire glasses now drew, I
started to come down throughthat and things that jumped out
to me was the request from Godto listen to him, and then the
Lord reminding me that if I stayclose to him, he'll stay close
to me.
Was the request from God tolisten to him, and then the Lord
reminding me that if I stayclose to him, he'll stay close
to me and that if I seek him,he'll be found.
(10:53):
And then I dropped down to theseventh verse, and this is where
I truly believe that he lovesus so much.
He speaks to us Now.
It wasn't an audible, audiblevoice, but it was a definitive
statement put your name righthere.
And this verse says but as foryou and I used my full name that
my mother used to say when Iwas in trouble but as for you,
(11:15):
rodney keith meyer, be strong,do not give up, for your work
will be rewarded.
That was written on June 17thof that particular year.
Amazing things happened, butthat day I symbolically said I'm
going to put a flag in theground and, because of faith,
(11:38):
I'm going to believe that he isgoing to do something.
He did it.
We had an investor show up thathad heard about our capital
raise.
An investment of $500,000 wasmade.
Within the same week I got atext message from an executive
of a local orthopedic companythat wanted to talk about a
distribution agreement that ledinto a contract where $2.5
(12:02):
million was provided to ourcompany.
You know, one of the names ofGod that you know, drew, is
Jehovah Jireh.
He's our provider, and so, eventhough I was going through a
very difficult time as a leader,he brought me to the point
where I was completely brokenand completely dependent, and I
think personally, that's wheremany of us, if not all of us,
(12:23):
need to be brought to thatmoment in time where we're just
emptied of ourself and I almostimagine that metal having a
personality.
First of all, the metallurgistis taking that metal and pouring
it into the pot, and thetemperatures become incredibly
(12:43):
intense, and if you were thatmetal, you'd probably start
crying out.
This is not a pleasantexperience.
What are you doing?
But you described it so well insome of your opening comments
that you know that impurityneeds to be taken out of us and
that refiner's fire that leadersare going to go through.
If you think you're going to bea leader and not go through the
(13:04):
fire, I would question whetheryou're really a leader, because
I think there's a plan thatmakes us much stronger when he
takes us through that refiner'sfire.
But that end result is that theimpurities are taken out and it
becomes pure and themetallurgist can do what he
wants with that metal, perhapsconforming it and shaping it
(13:24):
into something that he wants itto be.
To bring, if you will,accolades to him as the
metallurgist, and I think that'show God works.
I think he takes us as leadersand says I love you.
My son's paid the price for you, got some work to do in order
to conform you into who I wantyou to be, and it's not going to
be a pleasant process, but theend result is incredible.
(13:47):
We become stronger leaders with, I think, a greater desire to
even be better as we lead,because we went through that
time of refinement.
Speaker 1 (13:58):
Okay, rod, I want to take a second here and go a
little deeper and ask you aquestion, and I know it's
painful, but it's impactful.
And I think if you're willingto share a little bit further
around your daughter's story andthen specifically, yeah, the
story of your salvation.
(14:19):
It's amazing.
I'd love to hear that if youwouldn't mind sharing it.
Speaker 2 (14:24):
That's a lot to get in a short period of time, but
you know just quickly about mysalvation, though.
It was from a five-year-olddaughter sharing a verse out of
the Old Testament, isaiah 53, 6.
She recited it perfectly we all, like sheep, have gone astray.
Each of us has turned into hisown way and the Lord has laid
upon him the iniquity of us all.
(14:44):
I didn't say it out loud, butinternal conviction of anger,
and I literally said how dareyou convict me of my sin through
my daughter?
I hate you.
That was directed toward God.
The rest of the story would takea lot of time, but eight hours
later, after candidly drinkingmyself into a state of
(15:05):
drunkenness, numbing the pain ofwhat I just heard, but numbing
a lot of pain that was going onin my life personally and
professionally, I headed down tomy office in Indianapolis, but
at 3.30 in the morning I plannedout my suicide, drew, and I
called out for hope.
I called out and really askedthe Lord if he would forgive me
(15:26):
of the life I had been living,and he heard that prayer and
that was an immediate change.
So my real birthday is December, the 10th 1992, at 3.30 in the
morning.
Much more to my testimony, butthat was a new beginning for a
34-year-old leader, a34-year-old entrepreneur but,
(15:48):
candidly, a 34-year-oldentrepreneur and leader that was
chasing after everything thatthe world had to offer.
And I often tell other leaderson that day I lost everything
but I gained everything.
I gained a personalrelationship with Christ, my
Lord and my Savior, and you'llhear me often say that I'm a
radical follower of Jesus and Ithink he's the greatest leader
(16:11):
of all time.
The story of Ann Margaret I wentthrough a divorce because of
the life that I had lived and Iopenly want to say on this
podcast I failed as a husbandand I failed as a father.
But he's a God of hope.
I believe he's a God of secondchances.
God takes some really badthings and he ends up doing some
(16:33):
really good things.
So Shana and I will becelebrating our 32nd anniversary
this year, lord willing, andwithin a few years of being
married, she was pregnant.
Few years of being married, shewas pregnant and she carried
that child full term andMargaret was born on April, the
(16:54):
25th 1995.
We brought her home from a localhospital in Fort Wayne
Absolutely a beautiful, angelicbaby.
You know, a real hard lesson.
Men can be this way.
Sometimes we don't listen toour wives and Shana knew
something was wrong.
And we woke up to a little babywith a high fever and her
little tummy was distended.
(17:15):
It was black and blue and weknew something was wrong.
We headed right to Fort Wayneand the next thing we knew our
daughter had actually coded inthe hospital as a little infant
and they got her back but thenimmediately said we need to
transport her to RileyChildren's Hospital.
So here we were in Fort Wayne.
We didn't have anything elseother than our truck and I
(17:37):
happened to have the Bible inthe truck and, again, fairly new
follower of Christ at the time,headed to Indianapolis, walked
through the ER, down thecorridors.
Out from the OR came Dr KarenWesta, gifted surgeon at Riley
Children's Hospital.
She told us that AnneMargaret's large and small
intestines were twisted aroundher bladder and that she had to
(18:00):
be taken immediately intosurgery.
Dr West sensed that we wereahusband and wife of faith and
instructed us to pray for herhands and Annie survived that
surgery.
Yet we were told you need topray for every 12 hours that she
lives.
There'll be hope.
Most likely she's going to haveto be cared for, but there's
(18:25):
hope for her to live.
Drew, that night I was veryangry toward God.
I had a lot of questions of howcould a God of love allow
something like this to happen?
A beautiful, angelic baby girland looked at my wife who had
finally fallen asleep.
She was exhausted from givingbirth to bringing her child home
(18:48):
, to having her child airlifted,and I just was angry.
I've shared this publicly andI'll share it now with you and
our listeners today.
I asked for an answer and I hadno idea where to go.
At that time.
My Bible was a nice, shiny bluestudy Bible and I opened it up
(19:08):
and it fell to the 139th Psalmand in that Psalm it tells us
that every one of us has beenfearfully and wonderfully made
and that every day is ordainedfor us before any of them even
come to be.
And I receive that, lookingback now, with childlike faith.
I woke my wife up.
(19:29):
I asked her if we believed thatGod's Word was truth.
Shana can be pretty direct attimes and she said well,
absolutely, shana can be prettydirect at times and she said
well, absolutely.
Every year that I celebrate AnnMargaret Meyer, she only lives
seven days.
She was taken home, we believe,by faith, but God used Ann
(19:52):
Margaret Meyer in her father'slife to believe his word and to
put that word into practice andapply it in our lives.
As a leader today, and a leaderwho's been through refining
moments in my life, I don'tthink any greater than that
moment, and if we can perseverethrough that my wife says we can
persevere through anything soincredibly difficult time but,
(20:14):
man, so much good came from itand I think it really began to
be used by God to shape me intowho I am today and, most
importantly, who, whom I desireto be like as I continue to, to
live this life, this side ofglory, as a leader on fire.
Speaker 1 (20:31):
Man, thanks for sharing that Um.
So what do you think is thesignificance of in the impact of
the, the crucible going goingthrough that crucible of Thayne
Margaret and the loss of of thatbeautiful angel a few years
prior, um, your other daughter,bringing you to salvation by
giving you a piece of scripture?
(20:51):
Um, had that experience nothappened if it wasn't for your
other daughter, how do you thinkyou would have handled the
situation?
Speaker 2 (20:59):
Listen, there's no way I would have survived the
old Rod Meyer.
I would have gone to anabundance of alcohol to numb the
pain, I would have continued tolive the lifestyle that I was
living, candidly, really notcaring about anything else other
than myself.
And there's no way.
There's no way I would havegotten through that.
And so I look back greatquestion, Drew, because, looking
(21:21):
back on that again, God'stiming is always perfect.
And yeah, I lost everything.
You think about going throughdivorce.
You think about building for acareer and establishing your
401ks and having sufficientfunds to start, thinking about
retirement and joining threecountry clubs and all the things
that you do when you're chasingafter the things of the world.
(21:43):
And looking back on that, I sayit often I lost everything.
From a worldly perspective, Igained everything.
So yeah, it's interesting, Godused two daughters in just
miraculous ways in their dad'slife.
Speaker 1 (21:56):
Man.
That's incredible.
That's an incredible story, Rod.
But both of those both thecrucible situation of your
daughter, which is very moving,and then also the crucible of
the situation just described inyour job with the business you
are running, and can you speakinto this?
So God clearly can use fire todestroy things right, we see
(22:21):
that throughout Scripture.
But in this particular case,the refiner's fire isn't
intended to destroy, right, it'sto refine.
But were there moments where youfelt like it was a forest fire,
Like, oh man, is there a wayout of this thing?
Were there some intense momentsthat you either questioned what
(22:43):
was happening, that youcouldn't see this idea of hope
at the end of it, that you werein it and blinded Because I'm
assuming that there's listenersright now that might be in a
crucible, that can't see out ofit.
And when you're in it it'sdifficult and you just want out.
Maybe day after day, minuteafter minute, you're praying and
(23:03):
you're asking God just providefor this or get me out of this
pain or this suffering Sometime.
That lasts for a long time.
So were there moments where youwere in it and you couldn't see
out of it?
Or moments that the forest wason fire and you thought it was
all going to all going to burnup.
Can you speak into anythinglike that?
Speaker 2 (23:23):
yeah, without question.
As I think back on thatparticular time, um, I'd say the
fire of uncertainty, the fireof of almost panic, like I don't
see a light, if will, at theend of the tunnel.
I can't get through this fire,I'm going to be consumed by it.
But then there's that momentwhere you realize who is it that
(23:47):
I'm going to find my hope from?
Who is it that I'm going toseek and ask he's faithful to do
that.
He's faithful to do that.
But it is tough.
I would never want tocommunicate to you or our
listeners that it's a pleasantexperience.
It's an incredibly difficultexperience, but you know he is
(24:08):
the God of hope and if we trulybelieve that, as the refiner,
the good will be seen from thatperiod of refinement.
That's what you hold on to.
You hold on to hope and I thinktoo, you hold on to faith and
you ask for greater faith,because faith is certain of that
which we hope for and certainabout the things we can't see,
(24:31):
but if we truly believe in God'sWord and listen again, the
reason why I would say I'm onfire as a leader is because I'm
on fire as a follower and I wantto have a life for, whatever
the length it will yet be, toknow Christ and make Him known
in the context of influencingleaders in the marketplace to be
(24:54):
radical followers of Christ andthen to apply his word in our
lives as a leader.
You know someone coined thephrase this is the Bible, but
it's basic instructions beforeleaving earth.
I mean, that's a great manualfor leaders, right?
And this is where we can findour answers.
Equally so, drew, we need eachother.
You know we need each other togo through fires together.
(25:16):
I imagine what it's like to befirefighters who go battle a
fire in a forest.
They can't do it alone.
They go as a team and manytimes I think, they do go off
two by two and they have veryspecific things they have to do
together.
We need each other inleadership.
We need other leaders to helpus when we go through these
(25:37):
difficult times.
Speaker 1 (25:39):
Thanks, man, very, very well said.
Appreciate you sharing that.
So when I look at 1 Peter 1, 6and 7, it says this these trials
will show that your faith isgenuine.
It is being tested as firetests and purifies gold, though
your faith is far more preciousthan gold.
(25:59):
So when your faith remainsstrong through many trials, it
will bring much praise and gloryand honor on the day when Jesus
Christ is revealed to the wholeworld, so that, in conjunction
with Proverbs, the crucible forsilver and the furnace for gold.
But the Lord tests the heartRight, and so can you just speak
(26:21):
to like the, the, the heart.
It's almost like a circumcisionof the heart right, like you're
going through this process andwhen you're on the other side of
the crucible you can look backand see the work that was done,
um, and when you're in it youmight not recognize that, you
might just have hope that it'sgoing to come.
Now that you're on the otherside and you're out of that
(26:43):
crucible and you can look backat those and you saw that God
was trimming away some things ofthe heart, that God was using
these trials to refine you.
What's your reflection and kindof final encouragement for our
listeners on the other side ofthe crucible, as a leader on
fire.
I mean, you're living it outnow and I would expect that
(27:06):
you're not hopeful of anothercrucible experience although
there's probably a good chanceyou'll have one or some but
right now you're living as aleader on fire.
So, in reflection, how mightyou encourage those who are in a
crucible now and how thatreally impacted you being on the
(27:27):
other side of it?
Speaker 2 (27:28):
looking back, Look to the God of hope.
First thing, look to the God ofhope.
It's interesting you use thephrase look back, and many times
in the Old Testament we're toldremember, remember.
I'm so thankful for thatexperience because it's a strong
anchor, it's a strongfoundation for me to go back and
(27:51):
remember.
Remember Ann Margaret Meyer,remember that seven-day period.
How difficult that was on somany fronts.
But, man, the good that cameout of it is her dad made a
commitment from that day forward.
This is truth and this issomething I can apply in my life
as a husband, as a father, as agrandfather and as a radical
(28:15):
follower of Christ that has adesire to be a leader on fire is
to remember, to hold steadfastto faith.
You know, you just read thatbeautiful passage and I believe
when we go through thesedifficult times for the listener
that's going through adifficult time right now don't
give up hope.
Look to the God of hope, lookto another leader to come
(28:36):
alongside you.
You don't have to walk.
Come alongside you.
You don't have to walk throughthese fires.
You don't have to go throughthis refining process alone For
those who have been blessed witha wife.
Listen to the counsel of yourwife, and you know God's word
says victory is assured in themultitude of advisors, find that
advisory team to come alongsideyou during these difficult
times of refinement.
(28:57):
For me, it's all aboutremembering and going back to
what he's already done beforeand just having absolute
childlike faith.
We have a father who knowswhat's best for us and, you know
, sometimes my kids call me theBible man and I guess that's
somewhat of a compliment, but Ihope that what they see is their
(29:20):
dad puts God's Word intopractice and he says for we can
say this that we know that inall things God works for the
good of those who love him,who've been called according to
his purpose, for those heforeknew.
He predestined to be conformedin the image of his Son.
That's a refining process.
My greatest desire I want toknow Christ and make him known.
(29:42):
Greatest leader of all time, aservant leader, one who had
compassion on those that hecalled to come and follow him.
I can't say enough about thedesire to challenge other
leaders to lead like Christ.
And so, man, I'm thankful forthose times of refinement.
They're going to keep coming,because there's still impurities
(30:04):
in me, I still battle me and Ithink one of the greatest things
that I had to fight was my ownpride.
I want to solve these problems.
I want to figure out a way.
I don't want to show my concernto other team members.
I don't want to be perceived asweak.
That's pride and man thatneeded to be taken out of me,
(30:25):
and every once in a while itstill raises its ugly head.
So I'll keep asking my fatherif necessary, keep refining me,
because I want to be that impureor that pure not impure, but
that pure material for him touse, and use in such a way he
gets the glory and he gets thehonor and he gets the praise.
Speaker 1 (30:45):
Man Rod, thanks for sharing all that, thanks for
being vulnerable and giving ourlisteners a glimpse into your
life and some of thosechallenging times, and hopefully
people are encouraged andmotivated to live life as a
leader on fire and to embracethese crucible moments, as
difficult as they may be,knowing that there is a hope and
(31:06):
that we can put our hope in God, as you had said.
So thanks for joining us today.
Speaker 2 (31:10):
On the show man.
It's been a pleasure.
Look forward to future podcastsof hearing other leaders who
are on fire.
It's going to be awesome.
Speaker 1 (31:17):
Awesome man.
Thanks, brother, you bet, Thankyou.
Thank you for listening totoday's episode.
Perhaps it has prompted apainful memory or challenged you
to reflect on times you were inthe crucible.
Some of you may be in acrucible now, but be encouraged.
Maybe, just maybe, God is usingthis to refine your character
(31:42):
so that you emerge as a leaderon fire.
If today's episode was anencouragement to you, share it
with others who may also findencouragement in the Leaders on
Fire podcast.
So let's go into the world sentout as leaders on fire Until
(32:12):
next time.
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