December 17, 2024 • 31 mins
What drives someone to leave everything they know and start anew in a foreign land? Meet Shaé Brown, the inspiring founder and executive director of the Kutoa Project, whose profound journey from growing up in foster care in Warsaw, Indiana, to becoming a beacon of change in Kenya is nothing short of remarkable. Shea's story is one of triumph over trauma, revealing how personal challenges shaped her path in social work and counseling. Her decision to move to Kenya right after college wasn't just a leap of faith but a testament to her dedication to creating safe spaces for healing and growth.
Establishing the Kutoa Project presented its own set of trials and triumphs. Shaé candidly shares the complexities of starting a ministry in a new cultural landscape, touching on the allure of partnerships that could have led her off course and the necessity of building trust and credibility. The episode explores the balance between professional commitments and personal life, especially as Shaé adjusted to marriage in a new country. Despite the setbacks of the pandemic and personal losses, her commitment to the organization's core values and mission remained steadfast, emphasizing the importance of resilience and restorative care for families.
Shaé's journey doesn't stop at professional achievements—it delves into profound personal growth and leadership evolution. As Kutoa expands, Shaé reflects on the emotional intricacies of transitioning leadership roles to locals, a move that fulfills the organization's empowering mission. Through overcoming grief and burnout, she underscores how these experiences fortified her leadership skills and transformed her organization. Listeners will find inspiration in Shaé's reflections on finding peace and purpose beyond career success, embracing each phase of life with faith, resilience, and an unwavering passion for leading with integrity.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:03):
This is the Leaders on Fire podcast.
On this show, we'll be invitingguests in to talk about
crucible moments in their livesand unpack how it developed
character and perseverance andhow they emerged as leaders on
fire.
We hope that this podcast is anencouragement and an
inspiration to you.
Today I'm excited to have SheaBrown, founder and executive
(00:27):
director of Katoa Project.
I've known Shea now for manyyears and she's a good friend
and we're also a supporter ofthe organization Katoa Project.
My wife serves on the board andI've also had the privilege of
being able to go visit them inKenya to see the work they're
doing firsthand.
They have an awesome ministryand Shay has emerged truly as a
leader on fire and is doinggreat things.
(00:49):
So let's welcome Shay to theshow.
Well, shay, welcome to theLeaders on Fire podcast.
Super pumped to have you heretoday.
Speaker 2 (01:00):
Thanks, drew, I'm happy to be here.
Speaker 1 (01:04):
Awesome.
Well, tell us a little bitabout yourself.
Speaker 2 (01:06):
My name is Shay Brown .
I grew up in Warsaw, indiana,and my entire adult life has
been in Kenya, which we're goingto talk more about.
I have a husband named Jasonand a two-year-old daughter
named Abigail Grace.
She's very funny right now andwe're getting into those big
emotions with being two veryfunny right now and we're
getting into those big emotionswith, you know, being two.
(01:28):
I am a clinical licensed socialworker and EMDR specialist and
focus with working with kids whohave come from trauma and do a
lot of trauma trainingsthroughout the world.
So that's about me.
Speaker 1 (01:37):
That's really cool.
So what made you decide to getinto that field of work?
Speaker 2 (01:42):
Well, I grew up in foster care and was living with
my grandma, who I call mom, formost of my life, my sister and I
and got adopted later in life Ithink I was 11.
And then we actually went backinto foster care and during that
time is when the church kind ofcame in.
We weren't really going tochurch and someone came, when my
(02:03):
mom was in the hospital withgoing through her chemo
treatments, from the church thatwe go to here in Warsaw and
they didn't know our family,they just came to offer her
prayer and that's how we gotconnected to the church and got
involved, and so that's kind ofwhere my story started to change
and I got connected to youthministry throughout church and
(02:24):
now that's my sending church forwhere I am in Kenya.
Speaker 1 (02:29):
That's awesome.
So, specifically the counselingpiece what compelled you to
decide to get into that?
Speaker 2 (02:36):
I really just wanted kids and young adults and even
adults.
I've worked with allpopulations.
I started out working in fostercare.
I just really wanted to be asafe place.
What's funny is I remembergoing through counseling in
eighth grade when I was back infoster care and hated it.
The only reason why I would gois because they said, oh, if you
go, we'll go to Arby's and getmozzarella sticks.
(02:58):
So I was like, fine, I'll goand I'll do that.
But throughout my years ofhealing I've just realized how
important it was.
So when I was in Kenya for twoyears after I graduated from
Ball State, I graduated withsocial work degree, not sure if
I wanted to do counseling, butwanted to work with people and
during that time I was like youknow what?
This is what I want to do.
(03:19):
I want to create safe spacesfor people, but I love both
individual and I love the macro,like big group setting too.
So I love being a social workerand being able to do the
clinical, but also being able towork with different populations
and communities as well.
So what we do at Catoa Projectfits all those things.
Speaker 1 (03:38):
Awesome.
Well, thanks for sharing that.
Speaker 2 (03:40):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (03:40):
So we lit the fire.
Now we're going to fan theflame.
Okay, okay, yeah.
So we lit the fire.
Now we're going to fan theflame.
Okay, I'm ready.
So tell us how you startedKatoa Project.
I'm always super excited tohear about how young
entrepreneurs get a vision tostart something that really
makes an impact, and you've donethat, and so tell us a little
bit about how you got into that.
Speaker 2 (04:02):
I graduated from Ball State and a week later moved to
Kenya and my first trip toKenya was in 2009.
It was the first time I've everbeen anywhere, and it was
people asked like, why Kenya?
And it was just a matter oflike it was convenient.
At that time Someone offered meto go and so I was like, yeah,
I'll go, I'll do this trip.
And it was incredible.
But I remember there was it wasfour college students and there
(04:24):
was a group of us and it wasthe last day we were there and
they were like, oh so who'scoming back here?
And I was like I am not comingback here, god is calling me
elsewhere.
And I went elsewhere.
I went to Thailand and Cambodiaand Mozambique and all these
other countries.
I knew that I wanted to dointernational work and I decided
to go to all these places andwork with different
(04:45):
organizations.
At that time, my focus wasworking with individuals who
have been victims of sextrafficking, and so that was
really the population I workedwith.
And then I was in Mozambiqueand the whole time I was like I
could just go to Kenya.
And so that was the summerbefore my senior year and so I
asked the organization I wentwith in 2009 if they were going
(05:08):
to be having anybody come.
And so a week later, after BallState, packed up my bags and I
left for Kenya and during thattime I had a really difficult
time that first year workingwith the first organization I
was with, and I remember feelinglike I should be there and I
called a mentor and she's likeyou know, you can get another
(05:29):
job in Kenya.
I'm like I can, I'm allowed todo that, and so I started
exploring and figured that out,and after I worked for a few
organizations, I came home totake care of my mom.
She was really sick at thatpoint and decided to move
forward with my master's degreein counseling Well, social work
to be care of my mom.
She was really sick at thatpoint and decided to move
forward with my master's degreein counseling Well, social work
to be able to do counseling.
(05:49):
When that happened, I went toHaiti with some mentors that I
just really loved and care aboutand I just wanted to go
somewhere different.
Just to make sure, is Kenyawhere I wanna be?
And during that time, everysingle night, I kept having
these dreams about this place inKenya, and there were these
young girls there, and so Ithought maybe I was called to
(06:11):
work in a children's home orsomething like that, but just
kept feeling like Safe Place wasthe kind of theme that was
coming out, and so I got somepeople to start praying about it
.
So we prayed for about a yearbefore we'd started anything.
At this point I was in gradschool.
I just met Jason, who's now myhusband, and on our first date I
(06:32):
told him.
I said I think I'm going tomove back to Kenya.
So if that sounds exciting andfun, then we could go on a
second date.
But that's what I'm here for.
I'm going to get my master'sdegree and then I'm going back.
And during that time I wasn'treally sure.
I thought once again I couldjust work with organizations.
But there really wasn't anorganization that was wanting to
work with others and I justfelt like I want to come in and
(06:55):
help organizations create thatholistic care and just focus on
emotional, spiritual and socialsupport for these children so
that they can thrive as youngadults.
And couldn't find it.
So that's when Katoa started.
We had, like I said, we prayedfor a year and then we started.
And we started with prevention.
So let's just do counseling andtrainings and go from there.
(07:16):
We don't know if we will havethat home that I had those
dreams about, but I love wherewe're going and what we're doing
right now, so we'll just keepgoing.
Speaker 1 (07:28):
That's awesome.
I love that story and, forthose that don't know, in my
book All In, I got to highlightyou in there because you went
all in.
I mean just hearing that storyand just thinking about like no,
you put it all on the line andyou went and you even told your
boyfriend like, hey, this iswhat you're signing up for.
Speaker 2 (07:49):
I mean, I told him on the first day we weren't even a
boyfriend, girlfriend, that'sawesome.
Speaker 1 (07:54):
Yeah, um yeah.
But I love, I love that storyand I love the.
You know there's there's a lotthat of course we don't have
time to share, but just the gritand the tenacity and just the
environment and thecircumstances and the character
development that came from justliterally going all in and
making it happen was reallyreally cool, so enjoyed
highlighting you in the book asan example of somebody who's
(08:17):
gone all in.
So, all right, are you feelingwarmed up yet?
Speaker 2 (08:21):
I mean, this room is pretty warm, it's actually kind
of warm in here.
Speaker 1 (08:24):
I think it's like 82, 83 in here.
Speaker 2 (08:25):
I'm not sure.
So I'm feeling as warm as Iprobably should be.
Speaker 1 (08:28):
We intentionally, for the Leaders on Fire podcast,
turn up the heat in here, justso we can simulate the real life
experience.
Speaker 2 (08:34):
Yes, I'm the first person you did that for.
I appreciate it Awesome.
Speaker 1 (08:47):
Well, are you ready to enter the crucible?
I'm ready, are you Okay?
So the crucible we know that,you know throughout our lives
and we also know that throughoutscripture there's this idea of
a crucible, and a crucible iswhen we go inside something that
is extremely difficult, seasonor circumstance in life.
The heat is cranked up and Godis using that to melt away
impurities, character flaws,whatever those things are that
need just purified.
And the good news is is that ifwe have the right mindset and
(09:10):
we're pursuing the Lord, we knowthat we can emerge truly as a
leader on fire and with ourcharacter refined, although
sometimes it can be reallydifficult and it's also
sometimes not until years laterthat we can look back and are
actually thankful for that hardtime.
So you know, share with us atime or two a crucible that you
entered into.
(09:30):
That was difficult and we wantkind of the raw, gritty, gutsy
part of it.
You know, so put it on thetable.
Yeah, and then also share, like, what perspective you gain from
that.
Speaker 2 (09:44):
I think running ministry this is what's gonna
happen Any job, any job, anyfamily.
So, yeah, I think when we firststarted Katoa, like I said, we
spent a year praying about it,so we didn't just jump right in,
and then the first six months Ithought we were done and over,
like crashed and burned reallyquickly on and it was
challenging.
So what we do at ourorganization is we partner with
(10:06):
other organizations, ministriesand families to help them thrive
through mental, social andspiritual support, and so we do
that through counseling andtrainings and then equipping
them, and then we have all thesedifferent programs to help them
spiritually throughdiscipleship.
When we started, I thought wefound the most perfect partner.
It was a very they were verywell known in the area.
(10:30):
They had a children's home anda school that they're about to
open up and I'm like this is it.
If we can get in with them, wewill.
People will know our name and Iwent to go visit them in
December.
So we became a 501c3 that Juneand so we were spending time
fundraising and preparing for myhusband and I to make our big
move.
We went to this organization.
(10:51):
Well, I went, I went on my own,so I was by myself doing,
trying to figure this out.
Six months, not even six monthsmarried, so it was already
challenging to be away.
We went there and I knew thatthere were red flags but I
didn't want to see them at thattime and it became very clear
through the first.
I was there for two weeks.
(11:12):
They basically wanted me andour organization to be fully
operating with them, not workingwith anybody else.
They wanted to build us a house, like giving us the world, and
I kept saying like this soundsreally great, but this is not
our mission and vision.
But it would have been supereasy to steer off really quickly
because it was easy.
(11:32):
Fundraising wasn't going soeasy for us and this opportunity
would have given us everything.
Some stuff happened.
Some emotional stuff happened.
Some stuff was shared with ourboard.
It was really messy reallyquickly and it was clear I
couldn't trust them.
They didn't respect me.
They even said that I was tooyoung to do this and then also,
(11:53):
like I said, if we would havewent with them, we would have
completely drifted from ourmission and vision so early on.
So we had to make really hardchange really quickly and that
happened December.
My husband and I moved a fewmonths later and had no partners
.
And so the first, when wefinally moved and we found new
partners, we had two.
(12:14):
One was really great and onewas we were really excited about
the population.
It was working with girls whohave gotten pregnant as a
teenager and they were takingcare of them and their babies.
Well, we started thepartnership with them and,
pretty quickly on, we learnedthat there was sexual abuse
happening there.
So we had to go through allthat process and, I kid you not,
(12:34):
we've been in Kenya like twomonths, so we're dealing with
all this figuring that out.
And and I kid you not, we'vebeen in Kenya like two months,
so we're dealing with all thisfiguring that out.
And I'm like, is this what it'sgonna be?
That we're not gonna be able todo this?
And I was feeling reallydrained.
My husband and I were in ourfirst year of marriage and we
moved to a different country,one that I had community in and
he did not, so we were trying toget him connected.
So you have the professionalside, but you also have the
(12:56):
personal side, and when you move, you know this.
It's all together.
You're constantly meshing itand so trying to figure out how
to be a good wife, but also howdo I start this organization?
And, slowly by slowly, God justkept saying be patient, be
patient.
And we just said you know what,maybe we're doing too many
(13:16):
things.
So we focused on this oneorganization and that's when God
started to.
I started to just trust himmore.
I wasn't trying to findeverything out, and we still
work with that organization andwhat's one of the beautiful
things about what's happened iswe stuck with it.
This organization's had so manychanges and one of the things
we're passionate about isrestoration for families.
(13:37):
Yes, we work with children ininstitutional care, but we know
that God wants kids withfamilies and my own story being
in foster care and living withmy grandma people believed in
restoration for my messy, messyfamily and so we want to provide
that for kids in this area,where most of them will end up
in a children's home, becauseit's been easy and it's that
(13:59):
generational well, in achildren's home they'll be taken
care of.
So one of the beautiful thingsis that home we started with and
we're still working with andthey've transitioned fully to
transitional care.
But we were with them in themessy.
They stayed with us when we didnot know what the heck we were
doing.
And then the pandemic hit.
And not only that, I lost mymom and then I lost my close
(14:20):
uncle.
So I'm dealing with all of this.
I had to stop doing counseling.
I had this kid and I alwaystell our team that when we have
activities that you do with kidsin counseling, always practice
them first.
So any sort of activity with anew game or cards, we need to
make sure we know what we'redoing, what it's saying, so that
we can be there.
(14:41):
And I remember flipping overthis card.
It was like a get to know youquestions, and it was.
The question was tell us aboutsomeone you lost.
And the little boy looked at mewho's lost everything?
And was like, should we justskip this question?
Because he knew I just lost mymom and so I'm supposed to be a
professional here.
And my eight-year-old clientrecognized that I was not okay.
(15:03):
So that's when I had to take.
I had to take time away.
I wasn't my best leader, Iwasn't my best wife and,
honestly, during that time thatwe were on lockdown was really,
really healing for my husbandand I.
I had no work to distract mefrom my grief and so that was a
really time that God reallyrefined me and took away
(15:25):
everything.
And then I started to getcoaching to kind of help me with
leadership, because it wasclear that I was not leading
well.
I was very reactive and verycontrolling, but once again, a
lot of us were.
We didn't know what to expectand I just feel like that was
one of those times where, yes,as a leader and professionally I
(15:46):
want to talk just about myorganization but personally I
was not OK and it was affectingeverything I was doing.
So once I got time to heal andwent to counseling, I got the
leadership coaching that Ineeded.
I started to dig into my Bible.
I didn't read my Bible foralmost a year after I lost my
mom.
I was just so sad and just didnot know what to do and my
(16:08):
husband also lost his grandma atthat time.
So we were both grieving andtrying to navigate families that
were grieving in a very hardtime that were grieving and a
very hard time.
And then also my organizationdoubled.
We grew so fast during thattime.
Financially we grew and justour projects and programs grew.
So it was a really great timefor our organization.
(16:28):
But if I would not have gottenwhat I need, got back into
scripture, started tellingpeople I'm not okay, I don't
think we would have survived,and so I'm super thankful that
during that time I did what Itell my clients to do, what I
tell my staff to do.
I was burned out and I neededhelp, and so, yeah, so it sounds
(16:49):
like.
Speaker 1 (16:50):
So yeah, knowing you, you are a mover and shaker and
you like to get things done, youlike to move things along, and
so it sounds like you went overto Kenya like your guns were
blazing, like you're ready to godo this thing?
And door after door, keptseeming to just like slam in the
face and it sounds like Godused that to kind of dismantle
(17:13):
your control, or this idea oflike, almost in Shay's strength,
which we get excited aboutthings sometimes in life and we
start moving ahead in ourstrength, and it sounded like
God uses this crucibleexperience to really refine that
and allow you to like give upcontrol in a lot of ways, to be
to yield to him and through thatwhole process.
And then here you find yourself,starting to dig into the word,
(17:35):
starting to really releasecontrol, and the next thing, you
know it takes off.
And you know, when we thinkabout those it's like we get
frustrated, like those first fewmonths what you wanted was for
it to just take off but thatcould have been disastrous.
And it's interesting when wethink about that, like what we
don't know about ourselves andabout what God's work is in our
(17:56):
life, like that could have beendestructive and God knew that
you weren't ready for it yet.
And when we're in those momentsit's so frustrating because we
think we are, we know we are,but we're really not.
Speaker 2 (18:09):
And I'd been so patient right.
Speaker 1 (18:10):
Yeah, you're like I am being patient.
Speaker 2 (18:12):
Yes, I am being patient.
I don't know what more I needto do and honestly, talking
about this, I don't know whatmore I need to do and honestly,
talking about this, which Ishared with you earlier, like
talking about those first sixmonths, I feel like even now in
my healing journey I've justbeen able to talk about it
Emotionally really wrecked methat I was told I was too young,
I was not equipped to do thisand I, you know just that time
(18:38):
where you just feel like you'renot, um, you're just, you're
just can't do it and so, and noteven that, like I wasn't mature
enough to do it, and so someoneelse is saying that and then
telling other people who arebehind me in this, and then
they're questioning, and so itjust, emotionally, was me
constantly needing to provemyself.
And I think that we really andI know I shared this in your
(18:59):
book too like having singles onthe field we will do anything,
we're willing to go, we don'thave families yet.
We can go and do things andwe're excited and we're young
and I was at that stage but alsoI was ready and I had done the
hard work, but it brought medown and then, like I said I
(19:20):
lost my mom, and then it allstarted to be like, well, now
what do I do?
And now my person is gone, andso I will say that, even though
that happened, that was 2015.
I feel like just now and I justnow feel like I can finally
start talking about it in a waywhere I don't push it down and I
actually what's interesting isthat same organization recently
(19:41):
came to us last year and askedfor our services, and so it felt
like a big and it kind oftriggered me a bit, and I had to
talk to my leader my Kenyanleader and Kenyan colleague over
there, and I explained to hereverything that happened and I
hadn't shared that with anyone,and so I just shared like, hey,
I'm really excited about this,but I also want you to know that
this is what happened, and soeven in those moments, it still
(20:04):
comes back and so still havehealing to do, always as we are
growing and learning and doingtasks, and I feel like I am
constantly learning how to letthings go.
In a way, that's part of myhealing journey but is helping
me be a better leader, and Ifeel like that's the stage I'm
in I'm learning to be a betterleader and I've loved what our
(20:26):
organization is like.
I said, and I love the leaderthat I've become through doing
all the hard work which has notbeen easy.
Speaker 1 (20:33):
The young entrepreneurs or nonprofit
starters.
It just takes time and grit andperseverance.
It just takes time and it'sfrustrating for, especially for
like go-getters right.
Like it's just can befrustrating, but being able to
look back and being thankful forall of those things along the
way, that's brought you here.
Speaker 2 (20:51):
But also being humble and willing to say I made a
mistake, and willing to behumble in front of your team of
like, hey, I messed up here,especially cross-culturally and
I'm sure Riley can attest thattoo when you work
cross-culturally, you constantlyneed to make sure that you're
being humble to your team andasking questions, because it's
(21:12):
easy for us to come in and tryto fix it all, but the way our
organization ran back thenversus the way it runs right now
is completely different.
I really want our team takingcharge.
So there are things I have tolet go of.
You know, I have to let go ofwhat colors we choose for the
rooms, because I might like amore neutral, but I know the
(21:32):
culture loves brighter andthings like that, and so and I
know that's small, but those arelittle things that make a big
difference when you let yourteam take over.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (21:42):
Well, it's really cool and you know, we had the
privilege our family last yearin March of taking our whole
family and our niece over tovisit you guys in Kenya and the
team and do some leadershiptraining with them, and it was
just really impressive.
You know, like I wasn't therein the beginning and so I had
the privilege of seeing likethis established organization,
you've now got a field leader adirector that's there on the
(22:04):
field, a Kenyan that's leadingthe team there locally, and just
the maturity of theorganization you know, it's
really, really cool to see andit was great to see that
firsthand and be able to be apart of that.
Okay, kutoa is doing some greatthings, a lot of good stuff
going.
You're considering the future,how to continue to expand Kutoa.
(22:26):
I know just from knowing youover the last many years of what
areas do you focus on, whatareas do you grow?
Speaker 2 (22:33):
How do you?
Speaker 1 (22:33):
scale it, how do you grow it?
And then you've got thepersonal dynamic of you and your
husband, jason, and now Abigailin the mix and trying to figure
out that balance of how longare we in Kenya and how long are
we home.
So you're, you're in adifferent season now.
Right, like it's a, theorganization is is doing well,
it has grown.
Your family life has also grownand changed through that time
(22:55):
now.
So how, how does that, how doesthat look and feel now and what
, what, what pressures andthings are you dealing with now,
in light of kind of how allthat's evolved and what you see
for the future?
Speaker 2 (23:09):
Yeah, it is crazy to think just going through and as
we're doing this, you start tothink of other things, right
when you're talking about it.
And I just realized too thatduring the time I was doing
leadership with my husband, Iwere wanting to start a family
and it took us two and a halfyears to have our daughter.
Now she's here and we're inthis season, like you said, and
(23:29):
I do when I was talking to you,I do think that we're I'm in
another season of grief, butit's a good grief.
It's a season of our.
When we started Katoa, we saidwe wanted to do things in a way
that was always empoweringKenyans and nationals to take
over.
We want Kenyans empoweringKenyans.
And so now we're in this seasonwhere that's happening, and I
(23:50):
feel like a couple of years agoI really had to wrestle with God
about he could take Katoa awayfrom me, and then what am I
Right and dealing with?
I think everybody who starts isthe founder of something.
We always have to take thatinto consideration.
We get to this point, to whereI wanted to be a mom and it
wasn't happening.
So I was like, okay, well, isthis it?
(24:12):
And then God's just like, hey,this also is not your identity
either.
Your identity is in me.
And so, being in this seasonnow where, like you said, we
have a Kenyan director thathappened a couple years ago and
my husband and I have decided todo about 50-50.
(24:32):
We're in the States and inKenya and letting them lead, and
that has been so hard.
It's been hard because Kenyahas been my home, my adult
life's been there, all myfriends are there and I love my
job so much and I feel like Ihave two different jobs.
I have here, which is donormanagement and fundraising,
which is also part of the jobthat I love, but over there I'm
in the field, right, but nowthey are fully taken over and
(24:55):
that's what we want.
And so we're in this season nowof navigating that, having
people ask me every single dayso when you're going back, where
are you now?
And this and this.
And I found over the last yearI've been really defensive,
really defensive of this griefthat I was carrying, of what
(25:16):
does this look like for me now?
And who is Shay Like?
Who am I?
Can I dream outside, katah?
Am I allowed to do that?
Am I allowed to dream?
And I know, when I was onmaternity leave, I was like I
don't ever want to go back towork, but then I was like, yeah,
I want to go back to work, andso all of these things have been
happening, and so I was sharingwith you that.
I do feel like I'm in one rightnow, but it's in a good way.
(25:37):
It's a way of.
This was the goal that Kenyansare empowering Kenyans and that
our team could do this and I getto step back and watch them and
it's beautiful.
But I'm also in a season of Iwant to be there too, but I know
this is what's best and thenalso navigating.
What does our new life look like?
(25:57):
And it's a two for one.
There is no Katoa project inthe Brown family.
It's all meshed into one,because that's been our lives
for the last nine years, and I'mthankful for that.
But it does come at a cost.
We're always grieving, we'realways grieving, wanting to be
in Kenya.
When we're in Kenya, we'realways grieving, wanting to be
here, and it's a beautiful thingthat we get to have, and so I
(26:20):
just want to encourage othersthat any job you have, any
family life, whatever you have,it's going to keep.
The journey is not.
Oh, we've made it.
We're up the valley.
We're down the valley.
Nope, it's sometimes a steadygrief, but to look at the grief
in a way that there can be joyin this grief, I'm so thankful
for the last few years in Kenya.
(26:40):
My husband, I don't know.
We don't know if we're going tohave a season fully in Kenya
again.
We don't know if we're gonnahave a season in another country
.
We're praying about it.
We're about to open up oursecond office in Kenya and so
that's a huge step for us as aministry to figure out what that
looks like and we don't know.
We have offers to do it inother places.
We went to H&H and helped themand I loved doing that, and so I
(27:04):
don't know what it is.
But for the first time in nineyears, my team is handling it
and me as a person.
I get to be like what do I wantprofessionally and personally?
Because we've been in survival,trying to start this
organization, trying to makesure they have what they need
and equipping them.
And do they have the money theyneed?
Can I pay my team?
(27:24):
And then now we're in a seasonwhere things are good, but
there's also grief.
Speaker 1 (27:31):
So how has this season that you're in now drawn
you closer to Jesus?
Like, has it affected yourdependence or has it pushed you
away?
I mean sometimes, depending onwhere you're at, it can be
difficult.
So how has it impacted that,depending on where you're at, it
can be difficult.
Speaker 2 (27:43):
So how has it impacted that?
I think, if I'm being honestand raw, which is what this
podcast is about it's been both.
There's been times where I feellike I am very dependent on God
, and then I feel like there'stimes where I'm like I just need
a break from everything, and bybreak I mean just a couple of
days of just what am I supposedto be doing.
(28:04):
Especially, people have goodintentions, but people are
people, and sometimes people saythings that are hurtful, and I
remember someone saying like ohwell, you don't live in Kenya
anymore, so what's it matterwhat your team does?
And I'm like oh okay, Idefinitely know that one of the
things that I've been workingthrough is setting boundaries
(28:24):
and realizing, you know,realizing you have kids.
There's just you don't have asmuch time anymore and, on top of
that, my ministry is alsothriving and I just have to stay
focused on our mission andvision, and I know that this
season is all about developingmy leaders.
If we're gonna expand outsideof that, I need to make sure my
leadership my personalleadership's solid, my team's
(28:45):
leadership's solid, and thatthey have everything they need
to thrive.
So I do feel like thedependence on God has been there
and I just I feel like I keepgoing back to the story of Ruth
right, like she had all of thishappen and she was some ordinary
woman.
She didn't want her name to befamous and she just had multiple
things happen, but she stayedand she stayed in it and God
(29:09):
blessed her through that.
And so I feel like I know whatGod's called us to do and when I
get distracted by voices oreven my own desires, I have to
remember this is what he wantsand He'll bring me back if I'm
not on track.
And he just keeps providing,even if it's relationships,
(29:32):
providing just through myhealing process, with counseling
and even providing friendsright To like work through this.
When you live in a differentculture and then you move back
to your hometown, that's a whole.
I'm learning what to be likeShea in my hometown, but I'm not
the same girl.
I'm not a little girl anymore,that's a whole.
I'm learning what to be likeShay in my hometown, but I was.
I'm not the same girl.
I'm not a little girl anymore.
I'm a grown woman who has acareer and I love my job and I'm
excited to see how God is goingto set me apart from my
(29:55):
identity only being KatoaProject, because that's what
it's been.
So what does that look like andhow can I continue to show
others his love and alsocontinue to be myself in this
new era?
Speaker 1 (30:11):
Yeah, and that's awesome.
Thank you for sharing all thatand for just being open about
that, and it's clear to me thatthese crucible seasons in your
life have definitely shaped andformed you and you're entering
into, like you said, another onewhere you're exploring what
this next phase, this nextjourney, looks like, and while
it's exciting, it can also bedifficult to navigate that and
(30:33):
kind of find where am I at inthis situation and trusting God.
So there's no doubt that youhave emerged as a leader on fire
.
You're on dependence on God andyou're continuing to trust him
for the next thing.
So thank you for sharing allthat with us.
Speaker 2 (30:47):
Shay.
Speaker 1 (30:48):
And super pumped that you were able to join us on the
show.
Speaker 2 (30:51):
Thank you, drew, excited for your show.
Speaker 1 (30:53):
Thank you.
Thank you for listening totoday's episode.
Perhaps it has prompted apainful memory or challenged you
to reflect on times you were inthe crucible.
Some of you may be in acrucible now, but be encouraged.
Maybe, just maybe, God is usingthis to refine your character
(31:16):
so that you emerge as a leaderon fire.
If today's episode was anencouragement to you, share it
with others who may also findencouragement in the Leaders on
Fire podcast.
So let's go into the world sentout as leaders on fire Until
next time.
This is the Leaders on Fire podcast.
On this show, we'll be invitingguests in to talk about
crucible moments in their livesand unpack how it developed
character and perseverance andhow they emerged as leaders on
fire.
We hope that this podcast is anencouragement and an
inspiration to you.
Today I'm excited to have SheaBrown, founder and executive
(00:27):
director of Katoa Project.
I've known Shea now for manyyears and she's a good friend
and we're also a supporter ofthe organization Katoa Project.
My wife serves on the board andI've also had the privilege of
being able to go visit them inKenya to see the work they're
doing firsthand.
They have an awesome ministryand Shay has emerged truly as a
leader on fire and is doinggreat things.
(00:49):
So let's welcome Shay to theshow.
Well, shay, welcome to theLeaders on Fire podcast.
Super pumped to have you heretoday.
Speaker 2 (01:00):
Thanks, drew, I'm happy to be here.
Speaker 1 (01:04):
Awesome.
Well, tell us a little bitabout yourself.
Speaker 2 (01:06):
My name is Shay Brown .
I grew up in Warsaw, indiana,and my entire adult life has
been in Kenya, which we're goingto talk more about.
I have a husband named Jasonand a two-year-old daughter
named Abigail Grace.
She's very funny right now andwe're getting into those big
emotions with being two veryfunny right now and we're
getting into those big emotionswith, you know, being two.
(01:28):
I am a clinical licensed socialworker and EMDR specialist and
focus with working with kids whohave come from trauma and do a
lot of trauma trainingsthroughout the world.
So that's about me.
Speaker 1 (01:37):
That's really cool.
So what made you decide to getinto that field of work?
Speaker 2 (01:42):
Well, I grew up in foster care and was living with
my grandma, who I call mom, formost of my life, my sister and I
and got adopted later in life Ithink I was 11.
And then we actually went backinto foster care and during that
time is when the church kind ofcame in.
We weren't really going tochurch and someone came, when my
(02:03):
mom was in the hospital withgoing through her chemo
treatments, from the church thatwe go to here in Warsaw and
they didn't know our family,they just came to offer her
prayer and that's how we gotconnected to the church and got
involved, and so that's kind ofwhere my story started to change
and I got connected to youthministry throughout church and
(02:24):
now that's my sending church forwhere I am in Kenya.
Speaker 1 (02:29):
That's awesome.
So, specifically the counselingpiece what compelled you to
decide to get into that?
Speaker 2 (02:36):
I really just wanted kids and young adults and even
adults.
I've worked with allpopulations.
I started out working in fostercare.
I just really wanted to be asafe place.
What's funny is I remembergoing through counseling in
eighth grade when I was back infoster care and hated it.
The only reason why I would gois because they said, oh, if you
go, we'll go to Arby's and getmozzarella sticks.
(02:58):
So I was like, fine, I'll goand I'll do that.
But throughout my years ofhealing I've just realized how
important it was.
So when I was in Kenya for twoyears after I graduated from
Ball State, I graduated withsocial work degree, not sure if
I wanted to do counseling, butwanted to work with people and
during that time I was like youknow what?
This is what I want to do.
(03:19):
I want to create safe spacesfor people, but I love both
individual and I love the macro,like big group setting too.
So I love being a social workerand being able to do the
clinical, but also being able towork with different populations
and communities as well.
So what we do at Catoa Projectfits all those things.
Speaker 1 (03:38):
Awesome.
Well, thanks for sharing that.
Speaker 2 (03:40):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (03:40):
So we lit the fire.
Now we're going to fan theflame.
Okay, okay, yeah.
So we lit the fire.
Now we're going to fan theflame.
Okay, I'm ready.
So tell us how you startedKatoa Project.
I'm always super excited tohear about how young
entrepreneurs get a vision tostart something that really
makes an impact, and you've donethat, and so tell us a little
bit about how you got into that.
Speaker 2 (04:02):
I graduated from Ball State and a week later moved to
Kenya and my first trip toKenya was in 2009.
It was the first time I've everbeen anywhere, and it was
people asked like, why Kenya?
And it was just a matter oflike it was convenient.
At that time Someone offered meto go and so I was like, yeah,
I'll go, I'll do this trip.
And it was incredible.
But I remember there was it wasfour college students and there
(04:24):
was a group of us and it wasthe last day we were there and
they were like, oh so who'scoming back here?
And I was like I am not comingback here, god is calling me
elsewhere.
And I went elsewhere.
I went to Thailand and Cambodiaand Mozambique and all these
other countries.
I knew that I wanted to dointernational work and I decided
to go to all these places andwork with different
(04:45):
organizations.
At that time, my focus wasworking with individuals who
have been victims of sextrafficking, and so that was
really the population I workedwith.
And then I was in Mozambiqueand the whole time I was like I
could just go to Kenya.
And so that was the summerbefore my senior year and so I
asked the organization I wentwith in 2009 if they were going
(05:08):
to be having anybody come.
And so a week later, after BallState, packed up my bags and I
left for Kenya and during thattime I had a really difficult
time that first year workingwith the first organization I
was with, and I remember feelinglike I should be there and I
called a mentor and she's likeyou know, you can get another
(05:29):
job in Kenya.
I'm like I can, I'm allowed todo that, and so I started
exploring and figured that out,and after I worked for a few
organizations, I came home totake care of my mom.
She was really sick at thatpoint and decided to move
forward with my master's degreein counseling Well, social work
to be care of my mom.
She was really sick at thatpoint and decided to move
forward with my master's degreein counseling Well, social work
to be able to do counseling.
(05:49):
When that happened, I went toHaiti with some mentors that I
just really loved and care aboutand I just wanted to go
somewhere different.
Just to make sure, is Kenyawhere I wanna be?
And during that time, everysingle night, I kept having
these dreams about this place inKenya, and there were these
young girls there, and so Ithought maybe I was called to
(06:11):
work in a children's home orsomething like that, but just
kept feeling like Safe Place wasthe kind of theme that was
coming out, and so I got somepeople to start praying about it
.
So we prayed for about a yearbefore we'd started anything.
At this point I was in gradschool.
I just met Jason, who's now myhusband, and on our first date I
(06:32):
told him.
I said I think I'm going tomove back to Kenya.
So if that sounds exciting andfun, then we could go on a
second date.
But that's what I'm here for.
I'm going to get my master'sdegree and then I'm going back.
And during that time I wasn'treally sure.
I thought once again I couldjust work with organizations.
But there really wasn't anorganization that was wanting to
work with others and I justfelt like I want to come in and
(06:55):
help organizations create thatholistic care and just focus on
emotional, spiritual and socialsupport for these children so
that they can thrive as youngadults.
And couldn't find it.
So that's when Katoa started.
We had, like I said, we prayedfor a year and then we started.
And we started with prevention.
So let's just do counseling andtrainings and go from there.
(07:16):
We don't know if we will havethat home that I had those
dreams about, but I love wherewe're going and what we're doing
right now, so we'll just keepgoing.
Speaker 1 (07:28):
That's awesome.
I love that story and, forthose that don't know, in my
book All In, I got to highlightyou in there because you went
all in.
I mean just hearing that storyand just thinking about like no,
you put it all on the line andyou went and you even told your
boyfriend like, hey, this iswhat you're signing up for.
Speaker 2 (07:49):
I mean, I told him on the first day we weren't even a
boyfriend, girlfriend, that'sawesome.
Speaker 1 (07:54):
Yeah, um yeah.
But I love, I love that storyand I love the.
You know there's there's a lotthat of course we don't have
time to share, but just the gritand the tenacity and just the
environment and thecircumstances and the character
development that came from justliterally going all in and
making it happen was reallyreally cool, so enjoyed
highlighting you in the book asan example of somebody who's
(08:17):
gone all in.
So, all right, are you feelingwarmed up yet?
Speaker 2 (08:21):
I mean, this room is pretty warm, it's actually kind
of warm in here.
Speaker 1 (08:24):
I think it's like 82, 83 in here.
Speaker 2 (08:25):
I'm not sure.
So I'm feeling as warm as Iprobably should be.
Speaker 1 (08:28):
We intentionally, for the Leaders on Fire podcast,
turn up the heat in here, justso we can simulate the real life
experience.
Speaker 2 (08:34):
Yes, I'm the first person you did that for.
I appreciate it Awesome.
Speaker 1 (08:47):
Well, are you ready to enter the crucible?
I'm ready, are you Okay?
So the crucible we know that,you know throughout our lives
and we also know that throughoutscripture there's this idea of
a crucible, and a crucible iswhen we go inside something that
is extremely difficult, seasonor circumstance in life.
The heat is cranked up and Godis using that to melt away
impurities, character flaws,whatever those things are that
need just purified.
And the good news is is that ifwe have the right mindset and
(09:10):
we're pursuing the Lord, we knowthat we can emerge truly as a
leader on fire and with ourcharacter refined, although
sometimes it can be reallydifficult and it's also
sometimes not until years laterthat we can look back and are
actually thankful for that hardtime.
So you know, share with us atime or two a crucible that you
entered into.
(09:30):
That was difficult and we wantkind of the raw, gritty, gutsy
part of it.
You know, so put it on thetable.
Yeah, and then also share, like, what perspective you gain from
that.
Speaker 2 (09:44):
I think running ministry this is what's gonna
happen Any job, any job, anyfamily.
So, yeah, I think when we firststarted Katoa, like I said, we
spent a year praying about it,so we didn't just jump right in,
and then the first six months Ithought we were done and over,
like crashed and burned reallyquickly on and it was
challenging.
So what we do at ourorganization is we partner with
(10:06):
other organizations, ministriesand families to help them thrive
through mental, social andspiritual support, and so we do
that through counseling andtrainings and then equipping
them, and then we have all thesedifferent programs to help them
spiritually throughdiscipleship.
When we started, I thought wefound the most perfect partner.
It was a very they were verywell known in the area.
(10:30):
They had a children's home anda school that they're about to
open up and I'm like this is it.
If we can get in with them, wewill.
People will know our name and Iwent to go visit them in
December.
So we became a 501c3 that Juneand so we were spending time
fundraising and preparing for myhusband and I to make our big
move.
We went to this organization.
(10:51):
Well, I went, I went on my own,so I was by myself doing,
trying to figure this out.
Six months, not even six monthsmarried, so it was already
challenging to be away.
We went there and I knew thatthere were red flags but I
didn't want to see them at thattime and it became very clear
through the first.
I was there for two weeks.
(11:12):
They basically wanted me andour organization to be fully
operating with them, not workingwith anybody else.
They wanted to build us a house, like giving us the world, and
I kept saying like this soundsreally great, but this is not
our mission and vision.
But it would have been supereasy to steer off really quickly
because it was easy.
(11:32):
Fundraising wasn't going soeasy for us and this opportunity
would have given us everything.
Some stuff happened.
Some emotional stuff happened.
Some stuff was shared with ourboard.
It was really messy reallyquickly and it was clear I
couldn't trust them.
They didn't respect me.
They even said that I was tooyoung to do this and then also,
(11:53):
like I said, if we would havewent with them, we would have
completely drifted from ourmission and vision so early on.
So we had to make really hardchange really quickly and that
happened December.
My husband and I moved a fewmonths later and had no partners
.
And so the first, when wefinally moved and we found new
partners, we had two.
(12:14):
One was really great and onewas we were really excited about
the population.
It was working with girls whohave gotten pregnant as a
teenager and they were takingcare of them and their babies.
Well, we started thepartnership with them and,
pretty quickly on, we learnedthat there was sexual abuse
happening there.
So we had to go through allthat process and, I kid you not,
(12:34):
we've been in Kenya like twomonths, so we're dealing with
all this figuring that out.
And and I kid you not, we'vebeen in Kenya like two months,
so we're dealing with all thisfiguring that out.
And I'm like, is this what it'sgonna be?
That we're not gonna be able todo this?
And I was feeling reallydrained.
My husband and I were in ourfirst year of marriage and we
moved to a different country,one that I had community in and
he did not, so we were trying toget him connected.
So you have the professionalside, but you also have the
(12:56):
personal side, and when you move, you know this.
It's all together.
You're constantly meshing itand so trying to figure out how
to be a good wife, but also howdo I start this organization?
And, slowly by slowly, God justkept saying be patient, be
patient.
And we just said you know what,maybe we're doing too many
(13:16):
things.
So we focused on this oneorganization and that's when God
started to.
I started to just trust himmore.
I wasn't trying to findeverything out, and we still
work with that organization andwhat's one of the beautiful
things about what's happened iswe stuck with it.
This organization's had so manychanges and one of the things
we're passionate about isrestoration for families.
(13:37):
Yes, we work with children ininstitutional care, but we know
that God wants kids withfamilies and my own story being
in foster care and living withmy grandma people believed in
restoration for my messy, messyfamily and so we want to provide
that for kids in this area,where most of them will end up
in a children's home, becauseit's been easy and it's that
(13:59):
generational well, in achildren's home they'll be taken
care of.
So one of the beautiful thingsis that home we started with and
we're still working with andthey've transitioned fully to
transitional care.
But we were with them in themessy.
They stayed with us when we didnot know what the heck we were
doing.
And then the pandemic hit.
And not only that, I lost mymom and then I lost my close
(14:20):
uncle.
So I'm dealing with all of this.
I had to stop doing counseling.
I had this kid and I alwaystell our team that when we have
activities that you do with kidsin counseling, always practice
them first.
So any sort of activity with anew game or cards, we need to
make sure we know what we'redoing, what it's saying, so that
we can be there.
(14:41):
And I remember flipping overthis card.
It was like a get to know youquestions, and it was.
The question was tell us aboutsomeone you lost.
And the little boy looked at mewho's lost everything?
And was like, should we justskip this question?
Because he knew I just lost mymom and so I'm supposed to be a
professional here.
And my eight-year-old clientrecognized that I was not okay.
(15:03):
So that's when I had to take.
I had to take time away.
I wasn't my best leader, Iwasn't my best wife and,
honestly, during that time thatwe were on lockdown was really,
really healing for my husbandand I.
I had no work to distract mefrom my grief and so that was a
really time that God reallyrefined me and took away
(15:25):
everything.
And then I started to getcoaching to kind of help me with
leadership, because it wasclear that I was not leading
well.
I was very reactive and verycontrolling, but once again, a
lot of us were.
We didn't know what to expectand I just feel like that was
one of those times where, yes,as a leader and professionally I
(15:46):
want to talk just about myorganization but personally I
was not OK and it was affectingeverything I was doing.
So once I got time to heal andwent to counseling, I got the
leadership coaching that Ineeded.
I started to dig into my Bible.
I didn't read my Bible foralmost a year after I lost my
mom.
I was just so sad and just didnot know what to do and my
(16:08):
husband also lost his grandma atthat time.
So we were both grieving andtrying to navigate families that
were grieving in a very hardtime that were grieving and a
very hard time.
And then also my organizationdoubled.
We grew so fast during thattime.
Financially we grew and justour projects and programs grew.
So it was a really great timefor our organization.
(16:28):
But if I would not have gottenwhat I need, got back into
scripture, started tellingpeople I'm not okay, I don't
think we would have survived,and so I'm super thankful that
during that time I did what Itell my clients to do, what I
tell my staff to do.
I was burned out and I neededhelp, and so, yeah, so it sounds
(16:49):
like.
Speaker 1 (16:50):
So yeah, knowing you, you are a mover and shaker and
you like to get things done, youlike to move things along, and
so it sounds like you went overto Kenya like your guns were
blazing, like you're ready to godo this thing?
And door after door, keptseeming to just like slam in the
face and it sounds like Godused that to kind of dismantle
(17:13):
your control, or this idea oflike, almost in Shay's strength,
which we get excited aboutthings sometimes in life and we
start moving ahead in ourstrength, and it sounded like
God uses this crucibleexperience to really refine that
and allow you to like give upcontrol in a lot of ways, to be
to yield to him and through thatwhole process.
And then here you find yourself,starting to dig into the word,
(17:35):
starting to really releasecontrol, and the next thing, you
know it takes off.
And you know, when we thinkabout those it's like we get
frustrated, like those first fewmonths what you wanted was for
it to just take off but thatcould have been disastrous.
And it's interesting when wethink about that, like what we
don't know about ourselves andabout what God's work is in our
(17:56):
life, like that could have beendestructive and God knew that
you weren't ready for it yet.
And when we're in those momentsit's so frustrating because we
think we are, we know we are,but we're really not.
Speaker 2 (18:09):
And I'd been so patient right.
Speaker 1 (18:10):
Yeah, you're like I am being patient.
Speaker 2 (18:12):
Yes, I am being patient.
I don't know what more I needto do and honestly, talking
about this, I don't know whatmore I need to do and honestly,
talking about this, which Ishared with you earlier, like
talking about those first sixmonths, I feel like even now in
my healing journey I've justbeen able to talk about it
Emotionally really wrecked methat I was told I was too young,
I was not equipped to do thisand I, you know just that time
(18:38):
where you just feel like you'renot, um, you're just, you're
just can't do it and so, and noteven that, like I wasn't mature
enough to do it, and so someoneelse is saying that and then
telling other people who arebehind me in this, and then
they're questioning, and so itjust, emotionally, was me
constantly needing to provemyself.
And I think that we really andI know I shared this in your
(18:59):
book too like having singles onthe field we will do anything,
we're willing to go, we don'thave families yet.
We can go and do things andwe're excited and we're young
and I was at that stage but alsoI was ready and I had done the
hard work, but it brought medown and then, like I said I
(19:20):
lost my mom, and then it allstarted to be like, well, now
what do I do?
And now my person is gone, andso I will say that, even though
that happened, that was 2015.
I feel like just now and I justnow feel like I can finally
start talking about it in a waywhere I don't push it down and I
actually what's interesting isthat same organization recently
(19:41):
came to us last year and askedfor our services, and so it felt
like a big and it kind oftriggered me a bit, and I had to
talk to my leader my Kenyanleader and Kenyan colleague over
there, and I explained to hereverything that happened and I
hadn't shared that with anyone,and so I just shared like, hey,
I'm really excited about this,but I also want you to know that
this is what happened, and soeven in those moments, it still
(20:04):
comes back and so still havehealing to do, always as we are
growing and learning and doingtasks, and I feel like I am
constantly learning how to letthings go.
In a way, that's part of myhealing journey but is helping
me be a better leader, and Ifeel like that's the stage I'm
in I'm learning to be a betterleader and I've loved what our
(20:26):
organization is like.
I said, and I love the leaderthat I've become through doing
all the hard work which has notbeen easy.
Speaker 1 (20:33):
The young entrepreneurs or nonprofit
starters.
It just takes time and grit andperseverance.
It just takes time and it'sfrustrating for, especially for
like go-getters right.
Like it's just can befrustrating, but being able to
look back and being thankful forall of those things along the
way, that's brought you here.
Speaker 2 (20:51):
But also being humble and willing to say I made a
mistake, and willing to behumble in front of your team of
like, hey, I messed up here,especially cross-culturally and
I'm sure Riley can attest thattoo when you work
cross-culturally, you constantlyneed to make sure that you're
being humble to your team andasking questions, because it's
(21:12):
easy for us to come in and tryto fix it all, but the way our
organization ran back thenversus the way it runs right now
is completely different.
I really want our team takingcharge.
So there are things I have tolet go of.
You know, I have to let go ofwhat colors we choose for the
rooms, because I might like amore neutral, but I know the
(21:32):
culture loves brighter andthings like that, and so and I
know that's small, but those arelittle things that make a big
difference when you let yourteam take over.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (21:42):
Well, it's really cool and you know, we had the
privilege our family last yearin March of taking our whole
family and our niece over tovisit you guys in Kenya and the
team and do some leadershiptraining with them, and it was
just really impressive.
You know, like I wasn't therein the beginning and so I had
the privilege of seeing likethis established organization,
you've now got a field leader adirector that's there on the
(22:04):
field, a Kenyan that's leadingthe team there locally, and just
the maturity of theorganization you know, it's
really, really cool to see andit was great to see that
firsthand and be able to be apart of that.
Okay, kutoa is doing some greatthings, a lot of good stuff
going.
You're considering the future,how to continue to expand Kutoa.
(22:26):
I know just from knowing youover the last many years of what
areas do you focus on, whatareas do you grow?
Speaker 2 (22:33):
How do you?
Speaker 1 (22:33):
scale it, how do you grow it?
And then you've got thepersonal dynamic of you and your
husband, jason, and now Abigailin the mix and trying to figure
out that balance of how longare we in Kenya and how long are
we home.
So you're, you're in adifferent season now.
Right, like it's a, theorganization is is doing well,
it has grown.
Your family life has also grownand changed through that time
(22:55):
now.
So how, how does that, how doesthat look and feel now and what
, what, what pressures andthings are you dealing with now,
in light of kind of how allthat's evolved and what you see
for the future?
Speaker 2 (23:09):
Yeah, it is crazy to think just going through and as
we're doing this, you start tothink of other things, right
when you're talking about it.
And I just realized too thatduring the time I was doing
leadership with my husband, Iwere wanting to start a family
and it took us two and a halfyears to have our daughter.
Now she's here and we're inthis season, like you said, and
(23:29):
I do when I was talking to you,I do think that we're I'm in
another season of grief, butit's a good grief.
It's a season of our.
When we started Katoa, we saidwe wanted to do things in a way
that was always empoweringKenyans and nationals to take
over.
We want Kenyans empoweringKenyans.
And so now we're in this seasonwhere that's happening, and I
(23:50):
feel like a couple of years agoI really had to wrestle with God
about he could take Katoa awayfrom me, and then what am I
Right and dealing with?
I think everybody who starts isthe founder of something.
We always have to take thatinto consideration.
We get to this point, to whereI wanted to be a mom and it
wasn't happening.
So I was like, okay, well, isthis it?
(24:12):
And then God's just like, hey,this also is not your identity
either.
Your identity is in me.
And so, being in this seasonnow where, like you said, we
have a Kenyan director thathappened a couple years ago and
my husband and I have decided todo about 50-50.
(24:32):
We're in the States and inKenya and letting them lead, and
that has been so hard.
It's been hard because Kenyahas been my home, my adult
life's been there, all myfriends are there and I love my
job so much and I feel like Ihave two different jobs.
I have here, which is donormanagement and fundraising,
which is also part of the jobthat I love, but over there I'm
in the field, right, but nowthey are fully taken over and
(24:55):
that's what we want.
And so we're in this season nowof navigating that, having
people ask me every single dayso when you're going back, where
are you now?
And this and this.
And I found over the last yearI've been really defensive,
really defensive of this griefthat I was carrying, of what
(25:16):
does this look like for me now?
And who is Shay Like?
Who am I?
Can I dream outside, katah?
Am I allowed to do that?
Am I allowed to dream?
And I know, when I was onmaternity leave, I was like I
don't ever want to go back towork, but then I was like, yeah,
I want to go back to work, andso all of these things have been
happening, and so I was sharingwith you that.
I do feel like I'm in one rightnow, but it's in a good way.
(25:37):
It's a way of.
This was the goal that Kenyansare empowering Kenyans and that
our team could do this and I getto step back and watch them and
it's beautiful.
But I'm also in a season of Iwant to be there too, but I know
this is what's best and thenalso navigating.
What does our new life look like?
(25:57):
And it's a two for one.
There is no Katoa project inthe Brown family.
It's all meshed into one,because that's been our lives
for the last nine years, and I'mthankful for that.
But it does come at a cost.
We're always grieving, we'realways grieving, wanting to be
in Kenya.
When we're in Kenya, we'realways grieving, wanting to be
here, and it's a beautiful thingthat we get to have, and so I
(26:20):
just want to encourage othersthat any job you have, any
family life, whatever you have,it's going to keep.
The journey is not.
Oh, we've made it.
We're up the valley.
We're down the valley.
Nope, it's sometimes a steadygrief, but to look at the grief
in a way that there can be joyin this grief, I'm so thankful
for the last few years in Kenya.
(26:40):
My husband, I don't know.
We don't know if we're going tohave a season fully in Kenya
again.
We don't know if we're gonnahave a season in another country
.
We're praying about it.
We're about to open up oursecond office in Kenya and so
that's a huge step for us as aministry to figure out what that
looks like and we don't know.
We have offers to do it inother places.
We went to H&H and helped themand I loved doing that, and so I
(27:04):
don't know what it is.
But for the first time in nineyears, my team is handling it
and me as a person.
I get to be like what do I wantprofessionally and personally?
Because we've been in survival,trying to start this
organization, trying to makesure they have what they need
and equipping them.
And do they have the money theyneed?
Can I pay my team?
(27:24):
And then now we're in a seasonwhere things are good, but
there's also grief.
Speaker 1 (27:31):
So how has this season that you're in now drawn
you closer to Jesus?
Like, has it affected yourdependence or has it pushed you
away?
I mean sometimes, depending onwhere you're at, it can be
difficult.
So how has it impacted that,depending on where you're at, it
can be difficult.
Speaker 2 (27:43):
So how has it impacted that?
I think, if I'm being honestand raw, which is what this
podcast is about it's been both.
There's been times where I feellike I am very dependent on God
, and then I feel like there'stimes where I'm like I just need
a break from everything, and bybreak I mean just a couple of
days of just what am I supposedto be doing.
(28:04):
Especially, people have goodintentions, but people are
people, and sometimes people saythings that are hurtful, and I
remember someone saying like ohwell, you don't live in Kenya
anymore, so what's it matterwhat your team does?
And I'm like oh okay, Idefinitely know that one of the
things that I've been workingthrough is setting boundaries
(28:24):
and realizing, you know,realizing you have kids.
There's just you don't have asmuch time anymore and, on top of
that, my ministry is alsothriving and I just have to stay
focused on our mission andvision, and I know that this
season is all about developingmy leaders.
If we're gonna expand outsideof that, I need to make sure my
leadership my personalleadership's solid, my team's
(28:45):
leadership's solid, and thatthey have everything they need
to thrive.
So I do feel like thedependence on God has been there
and I just I feel like I keepgoing back to the story of Ruth
right, like she had all of thishappen and she was some ordinary
woman.
She didn't want her name to befamous and she just had multiple
things happen, but she stayedand she stayed in it and God
(29:09):
blessed her through that.
And so I feel like I know whatGod's called us to do and when I
get distracted by voices oreven my own desires, I have to
remember this is what he wantsand He'll bring me back if I'm
not on track.
And he just keeps providing,even if it's relationships,
(29:32):
providing just through myhealing process, with counseling
and even providing friendsright To like work through this.
When you live in a differentculture and then you move back
to your hometown, that's a whole.
I'm learning what to be likeShea in my hometown, but I'm not
the same girl.
I'm not a little girl anymore,that's a whole.
I'm learning what to be likeShay in my hometown, but I was.
I'm not the same girl.
I'm not a little girl anymore.
I'm a grown woman who has acareer and I love my job and I'm
excited to see how God is goingto set me apart from my
(29:55):
identity only being KatoaProject, because that's what
it's been.
So what does that look like andhow can I continue to show
others his love and alsocontinue to be myself in this
new era?
Speaker 1 (30:11):
Yeah, and that's awesome.
Thank you for sharing all thatand for just being open about
that, and it's clear to me thatthese crucible seasons in your
life have definitely shaped andformed you and you're entering
into, like you said, another onewhere you're exploring what
this next phase, this nextjourney, looks like, and while
it's exciting, it can also bedifficult to navigate that and
(30:33):
kind of find where am I at inthis situation and trusting God.
So there's no doubt that youhave emerged as a leader on fire
.
You're on dependence on God andyou're continuing to trust him
for the next thing.
So thank you for sharing allthat with us.
Speaker 2 (30:47):
Shay.
Speaker 1 (30:48):
And super pumped that you were able to join us on the
show.
Speaker 2 (30:51):
Thank you, drew, excited for your show.
Speaker 1 (30:53):
Thank you.
Thank you for listening totoday's episode.
Perhaps it has prompted apainful memory or challenged you
to reflect on times you were inthe crucible.
Some of you may be in acrucible now, but be encouraged.
Maybe, just maybe, God is usingthis to refine your character
(31:16):
so that you emerge as a leaderon fire.
If today's episode was anencouragement to you, share it
with others who may also findencouragement in the Leaders on
Fire podcast.
So let's go into the world sentout as leaders on fire Until
next time.
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