Competing Together: How Female Leadership Changes the Business Game ⎪ feat TEDx speaker Elizabeth McCourt

What happens when you combine curiosity with courage? Leadership coach and author Elizabeth McCourt brings this powerful dynamic to our conversation about the future of leadership. From her base in New York, Elizabeth shares her philosophy that has guided her through multiple careers and athletic pursuits: "If I can do it, you can do it too."

The magic in Elizabeth's approach lies in her relationship with discomfort. Rather than avoiding challenging situations, she embraces them as opportunities for growth and connection. "I love that energy of discomfort," she explains, describing how pushing boundaries has shaped her global perspective and leadership style. This refreshing take on personal development offers listeners a roadmap for their own growth journeys.

Our discussion evolves into exploring the false dichotomy between competition and collaboration. Elizabeth brilliantly reframes competitive relationships: "I want you to do great, because there's room for both of us." This perspective mirrors what top athletes understand—that worthy competitors don't diminish your success but inspire greater achievement. We examine how this collaborative mindset applies to business challenges too complex for siloed approaches, and Elizabeth offers practical insights about generosity with knowledge and strategic relationship-building.

The conversation culminates in recognizing that effective leadership isn't about gender but about balancing complementary energies. Elizabeth demonstrates this naturally through her ability to both connect deeply and push strategically. Her capacity to "see the whole room"—noticing multiple dynamics simultaneously—exemplifies the integrated leadership our complex world needs. Join us for this thought-provoking episode that will transform how you think about leadership, competition, and your own potential to make an impact.

Listen to the Leadership Espresso Podcast:
https://open.spotify.com/show/4OT3BYzDHMafETOMgFEor3

View the Leadership Espresso Podcast:
https://www.youtube.com/@Stefangoetz_Global_Leadership/videos

Connect with Stefan Götz on LinkedIn:
https://www.linkedin.com/in/stefangoetz/

Check out Stefan's Executive and Team Coaching
https://www.stefan-goetz.com/

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to the Leadership Espresso.
Another episode today withElizabeth McCourt.
She's an author, she's anovelist, a writer, a leadership
coach, an athlete.
Actually, she's an all-in-one.
So thank you, elizabeth, forthis show being present.

(00:22):
Thank you, you live in New York.

Speaker 2 (00:25):
I do, yeah, thanks for having me.

Speaker 1 (00:27):
Absolutely.
I'm thrilled and very gratefulthat you take your time and that
we can share your wisdom aroundfemale leadership.
Now we jump right in there.
Elizabeth, my first question isa really easy one.

Speaker 2 (00:48):
The question would be what do you bring to this world
Easy or big, or it is a bigquestion?
I would say that I'm alwayswanting to push the envelope.
I'm always a little bit scared,but I do believe that if I try

(01:12):
and I can do it, then you can doit too.
It's really as simple as that.
That.
I really enjoy that gettinguncomfortable.
I think that's why I lived inGermany, as we discussed, and
why I work globally and do whatI do, because it is not always
comfortable, but I love thatenergy of discomfort and I try

(01:37):
and use that to really connectand be the best that I can be.
But it's, it's not easy, it's,it's can be scary.
But if I always say, but, butif I can do it, like I'm not,
I'm not that special.
If I can do it, you can do it,and that's why I do a lot of
things.
I just have a lot of interestbecause I go.
If you say I can't do it, thatmight be my biggest motivation

(02:00):
to do something.

Speaker 1 (02:02):
That sounds pretty much like a sports person.

Speaker 2 (02:06):
Kind of.

Speaker 1 (02:10):
Kind of.
It's all about motivation.
You know what I sense.
There is some strong curiositybehind there, and I can also

(02:32):
relate to the discomfort and tothe being scared, you know.
So what would make it a littlebit easier for a woman to handle
that kind of situation, thatdiscomfort?
Is there anything, anyqualities in women that makes it
more easy for them?
Or is it similar?

Speaker 2 (02:45):
You know, if we think about it in gender, I think one
of my biggest strengths is thatI do have that curiosity and
I'm truly interested inconnection with people,
naturally, and maybe I thinkthere can be aggressive
personalities or not aggressive.
I think I'm, I was, I was in anindustry before I became a coach

(03:08):
that was very aggressive and Ialways said I can't do it like
that, I have to do it my way,which was very I was a recruiter
and very, very personal.
So I, I listen and I observeand and I, I I sense things like
I'm, I'm intellectual, but Ialso I sense connection in

(03:30):
myself and I think that isamount of being able to trust
yourself that if something feels, if something feels bad, maybe
it is bad, but if somethingfeels possible, it probably is
possible and to use that asenergetic motivation.
And I think it's thatunderstanding of yourself.

(03:51):
Maybe it's being curious aboutyourself.
You started with curiosity, soit's curious about what am I,
what am I sensing, what am Ifeeling, and and using that not
as a negative but using that asmotivation.

Speaker 1 (04:08):
Now coming from a more male perspective.
You know we kind of we likechallenges.
You know I have the biggest,the small or the highest, the
fastest or whatever.
This is what we enjoy, you know, being the first and this has
brought us very far on thisplanet.
But yeah, I sense for the nextstage in business, you know we

(04:32):
need a lot more aroundcooperating rather than
competing.
You know, because thechallenges are too big and we
cannot allow to solve the globalchallenges on a local level,
you know.

Speaker 2 (04:47):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (04:49):
So what could men learn?
And I'm not saying it's betterand worse, you know yeah.
So what?
What could men learn?
Uh, and I'm not saying it's,it's a better and worse, you
know women and men, but it'smore about the feminine energy
versus a male energy.
So what could uh man learn fromthat energy around connecting,

(05:10):
about caring, about cooperating,what, what?
What is it?
Is it something that you canlearn, or is it just a gift?
Or are you born with that?
Or how how do, how can weembrace it together?

Speaker 2 (05:27):
I think you know it's interesting as I was just
reading about this and I wish Ihad the quote with me that you
would think that if youcollaborate you lose, right,
like I want to win the race andif I collaborate with you, then
we both win.
So that dilutes it business.

(05:55):
And we have to think of it morein terms of like, contribution
and innovation that can.
Can I have an idea and can you?
Can I work with you and haveyou be curious to a make my idea
better or be in the best way,collaboratively, blow up my idea
as problematic and then comeforge ahead in a new idea?
I think this is really I thinkyou can't think of it as you

(06:19):
know my idea best idea, becauseyou know, if we think about it
in the realm of COVID, then thatwould be a fail.
But if you and I collaborateand you say, gosh, that didn't
work, let's try this, that weactually, we actually both win
together, and I think that'sit's not the participation prize

(06:41):
, if you will, but it isactually making it better
together and I think that is.
I mean, I'm actually verycompetitive, so, but I'm not, I
rest my case.
Yeah, I'm very competitive, butI'm also but I'm also and it's

(07:03):
the reason why I do certainsports.
I'm not competitive as in Iwant to beat you up and have you
fail, I actually, and believethis in business.
I want, I want to beat you upand have you fail, I actually,
and believe this in business.
I want, I want you to do great,because there's room for both
of us.
So if you do great, maybe youinspire me to be better.
So I think it's sort ofchanging that mindset of

(07:25):
competition that I I believethat in my old job too, that
there was absolutely a highamount of competition and, like
I said, I'm competitive but Ithought of my competitors as
inspiration, not as people whowould quash me.

Speaker 1 (07:40):
Absolutely.
By the way, I interviewed 12years ago.
I interviewed some extremeclimbers German, but very
extreme climbers, you know.
They hang off the cliffs withone arm, without safety and
stuff.
I talked to them and they'rebrothers and they're competing
and they're collaborating at thesame time and they gave me the

(08:02):
exact same idea.
It's not that I compete againstmy brother, it is that I pull
the best version of myself thatmay inspire my brother to give
his best of his version exactlyso it's, it's, it's not.

(08:22):
You know, it's not that I loseor something.
It is that we are all different.
We have different gifts withdifferent talents.
You know, we don't need twoversions of Stefan or two
versions of Elizabeth exactly weneed the original.
You know there's a copy issecond best.

(08:44):
So I really like this idea andI see it shared globally in top
athletes.
If you talk to tennis players,right, or whoever at the top
level, they don't see is a fightagainst someone.
It's, it's a fight with someone.
Yes, to become a better version.

(09:05):
So I like this idea shared andit's.
I think it can be easilytransferred into business.

Speaker 2 (09:13):
You know absolutely, and I would say you learn it
really creative.
You flex that other side ofyour brain like how do you learn
from that that you can apply toto business?

Speaker 1 (09:24):
and you do learn a lot, you do learn what else
would make it easier for us mento collaborate, from your
perspective, from femaleleadership.

Speaker 2 (09:39):
Easier to collaborate .
I think number one you have tobe open to it.
That's a good thought.
Number one you've got to beopen to it first of all.
And also, there's like a threatpeople often see is is it a
threat just because there mightbe?

(10:00):
Um, like we were talking abouthaving more women on boards and
you know there should there justbe the quota system, and that
doesn't feel, that doesn't feelgreat.
If you're a quota, you want tobe appreciated for, for what you
bring and, and I think that youknow, sharing expertise and

(10:21):
sharing experience and sharingknowledge is, once again, it
doesn't giving it.
Giving someone, being generouswith your knowledge doesn't
actually cheapen your value.
It makes you even more valuable.
So can we have a culture of notsort of I'm not going to tell
you this because this is mineand if I tell you this, that

(10:43):
it's going to you know it'sgoing to cheapen my value, it's
actually going to make you morevaluable.
So it's, it's a cultural change.
It's not just talk, it's anawareness of that.
What are you?
What are you doing to becollaborative?
What are you doing to begenerous?
What are you doing to coach andteach others and bring them and

(11:03):
advocate and bring them along,or are you?

Speaker 1 (11:07):
are you a one-man, one man or one woman show,
because there is that too,there's, you know, the one
person, the one person show whenI that's like you said that's
not working yeah, exactly, andwhen I asked you that question
when we started off, about whatyou bring to the table to this
world, uh, I understood that yousaid it's for you it's a lot

(11:28):
about connecting.
Yes, so is connecting a femalequality or is it?
Is this a general quality, andwhat makes connecting so
interesting?

Speaker 2 (11:43):
I think that's a good question.
I don't know if it's I can'tsay it's only a female quality
to connect, because of courseyou and I are connecting, but I
think I mean for me I wastalking, I'm very interested in
strategy and I've been sort ofthinking about how do I become

(12:03):
more strategic.
It's not a natural quality forme to be quite strategic, and so
I'm really been.
I've been researching that.
I believe in self-education, soI've been researching strategy,
strategy, and I determined whenthat building relationships is
actually part of my.
It's an essential part of mystrategy, because I am hyper

(12:28):
aware of what I can learn fromothers, and sometimes it makes
me feel I might be deficient insome way, and so I'm going to
try and learn, might bedeficient in some way, and so
I'm going to try and learn.
But other times I try and, aswe were talking about, make it

(12:52):
inspire me to do better orinspire me to learn something,
or inspire me to take a risk, orpush me to do something that I
didn't think I could do and getuncomfortable and take a risk.
So I think this for me, thiscuriosity and this interest in
others, I think also makes meaware of my surroundings and I

(13:22):
work with a few clients inhospitality and I've worked in
hospitality myself and I say, ifyou're good at your job in
hospitality, you see all anglesof the room, you see the guest,
you see what's not folded, yousee this, you see that, you see
that.

(13:46):
And I think we forget that noteveryone sees the world like
that.
Some people just see one thing.
But if you're very aware, whenyou walk in you sense that
something's wrong over here.
You see that something's goingon over there.
So I think for some it's notnatural and I would tell you the
people I work with, I have toremind them that most people
don't see the world like that.
You're different, so you haveto have more patience with

(14:07):
others.
They are not seeing the 50things that are going wrong.
They're only seeing one thingthat they need to do.

Speaker 1 (14:15):
So maybe it is just and this is male and female, so
this is just a different way oflooking at things- I, you know,
I just listened carefully thelast one or two minutes and I
got the senses I just received amaster class on balancing the
male and the female energy, orthe male and the feminine energy

(14:43):
.
If you listen carefully to theaudience that we talked to, to
Elizabeth, the last two minutes,you would figure out she said
kind of inspire me, but push mealso to be inspired.
So pushing is more a malequality.
It's a quality that kind of getthings done, you focus on one

(15:03):
element, you focus on the target, you go for it.
You know you put all theobstacles, you get them away.
Inspiration is a femininequality of opening up, of not
wanting to be right because youcan't be right and be curious at

(15:24):
the same time.
So, uh, elizabeth, that was amaster class, teaching the last,
and I guess I, I have, and manymore, had to re-listen those
two or three minutes carefullybecause there's so many details
in that picture that balancesout those qualities.

(15:45):
So we don't need female leaderswho become male, you don't need
male leaders who become female.
We need them to balance outwhat's missing.
Missing, yeah, bring it to thetable as a package, as a more
advanced version, and this is, Iguess, the female and male

(16:07):
leadership of the future.
This is what we need.
We need both qualities.
So I really appreciate, uh, andthis, you know we haven't
designed for that as we spokebefore.
It just happened and I guess webrought it to the table the two
of us, you know because we'recurious.
Collaborate Right.

Speaker 2 (16:29):
And.

Speaker 1 (16:29):
I really enjoy that because it's not scripted.
It just happened because we setthe intention for that.
So a little bit, I want to do alot more episodes.

Speaker 2 (16:43):
I love it.

Speaker 1 (16:43):
It's been really fun, but for now, I thank you so
much and again, be inspired.
What else comments below andElizabeth will talk again.

Speaker 2 (16:55):
Cheers cheers have a good one.