What if everything we've been taught about competition in business is fundamentally flawed? In this thought-provoking conversation with Jeff Allen, we challenge the core belief that competition brings out our best and explore why it actually creates dysfunction instead of excellence.
Competition divides the world into winners and losers, destroying the very relationships that make success possible. "You don't achieve success through competition, you achieve success through mutuality," Jeff explains, revealing how this mindset shift can transform team dynamics. We examine how fear-based leadership diminishes performance across entire organizations and why supporting team members who struggle creates more powerful outcomes than replacing them.
The conversation takes a surprising turn when we discover the parallel between friendship and leadership. Both require genuine giving, connection, and the willingness to support others in their growth. We also uncover the hidden patterns that cause leaders to feel victimized by their own success – how unconscious agendas cause us to "hide our taking under a mountain of apparent giving." By diving below the waterline of conscious behavior, we illuminate why raising our awareness about these patterns creates breakthrough leadership possibilities.
Ready to transform your approach to leadership? Listen now and discover why connection rather than competition might be your greatest untapped resource for creating extraordinary results. Share your thoughts about how these ideas could apply in your organization – we'd love to continue this important conversation with you.
Listen to the Leadership Espresso Podcast:
https://open.spotify.com/show/4OT3BYzDHMafETOMgFEor3
View the Leadership Espresso Podcast:
https://www.youtube.com/@Stefangoetz_Global_Leadership/videos
Connect with Stefan Götz on LinkedIn:
https://www.linkedin.com/in/stefangoetz/
Check out Stefan's Executive and Team Coaching
https://www.stefan-goetz.com/
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 2 (00:01):
So welcome back to the Leadership Espresso podcast
today, again with Jeff Allenfrom the UK.
I'm so grateful, jeff, thatwe're doing this small series
about true leadership, creatingthe new normal in business.
Great to have you on the show.
Speaker 1 (00:17):
Great to be here, stefan, yeah.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
Yeah, let's jump right into it.
Today, it's all aboutcompetition.
Speaker 1 (00:26):
Ah, my favorite subject.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
yes, yeah, nice subject right, and we all love
competition.
You know we're brought up withcompetition In Germany.
You know we always want to bethe first, the best, we build
the best car.
We love competition.
So what's so bad aboutcompeting?
It brings out the best versionof us, right?
Speaker 1 (00:46):
yeah, but it's really tough to talk about competition
, especially to business people,because so many business people
go.
It's essential, it's important.
You have to compete in all this.
The big problem withcompetition is competition
creates winners and losers andyou might be winning, but
(01:10):
someone's got to be losing, andthe whole idea about you hear
that phrase so often win, win,but and and it's true, it's a
great thing to aspire to.
I mean usually when people say,oh, it's a win-win, you, you
know you're about to get shafted, but anyway, it's a great thing
(01:34):
to aspire to win-win.
But how can you be competitiveand win-win?
It's not going to happen.
I mean, you win for most of thetime and some of the time, but
in the end you split the worldor your company or your family
into winners and losers.
And this goes not only inbusiness, it goes all the way
(01:59):
into relationships.
Usually when a relationship ishaving the biggest fight, it's
because someone's trying to makethe other person the loser, and
the loser just will do anythingto get revenge on the winner.
So what competition does isdestroys relationships and you
(02:21):
cannot have success withoutrelationships.
Speaker 2 (02:30):
So that's the bottom line when it comes to
competition.
Now, when I put myself intosomeone working at the big
companies, I feel like being inthis Dread middle.
You know where people tell meNext year, your budget needs to
raise by 10%, or, in this, ourcase now is probably by minus
(02:53):
10% In cost.
But it's always like you gottabe better, you gotta raise the
bar, you gotta win, you gotta sowhat.
I don't get it.
If I'm that position, this iswhat I'm expected to do.
So is there more than just onesolution?
(03:13):
Or yeah, it's?
Speaker 1 (03:16):
it's.
It's not a bad thing to keep,you know, improving yourself,
finding better ways.
You, you know going for greaterand greater goals, to extend
yourself further and further.
But the truth is, you willachieve that much more easily
through mutuality than you willthrough competition.
(03:39):
When you get a team reallyworking, I mean it it becomes
unstoppable, it achieves amazingthings.
But you can't have that team andcompetition.
You just need to take your pickabout which one you're going to
do.
And, equally, you don't want topush people.
You know the extent to whichyou get your team and you push
(04:03):
them sooner or they will startpushing you back, and then you
have the seesaw.
What you need to do is motivatepeople.
You need to get people to buyinto your vision.
You need to inspire people tojoin you, to have the same goals
as you, and you do that throughconnection, mutuality, through
(04:25):
cooperation and also being thebest that you can be.
I mean, that's that's so.
It's not about reducing yourgoals and saying, oh well, we're
not going to compete, so we'regoing to lie down here and and
not strive, oh no, strive, oh no, strive.
Really go for it, go to improve, but recognize the traps of
(04:47):
competition.
Speaker 2 (04:48):
So I keep remembering that we always said competition
is based on a belief ofscarcity, right, yeah, yeah, so
that would mean that the way Iperceive the world is, there is
not enough for everyone, yeah,so if I combine that with what
(05:12):
you're saying about connection,about thriving, about opening up
, this would mean and then Icombine it to what we said the
other day about accountability,and I combine it to what we said
the other day aboutaccountability I enlarge my
realm, my field of vision of whoI integrate, right, yeah, yeah,
(05:35):
so it's like it's not.
You know, competition is kindof like you're scaling down on
the possibilities, right?
Speaker 1 (05:44):
Yeah, absolutely, and you are relying on yourself.
And the other thing is likehalf your energy in competition
goes, or more goes, to kind ofdestroying the other competitor.
So you're kind of wastingenergy.
I mean, what you do is when youwant to go for success.
(06:06):
It's like all your energy goesfor success.
You know success is?
You don't achieve successthrough competition, you achieve
success through mutuality.
Speaker 2 (06:18):
So if I and I think many leaders are in that
position, I guess I'm also insome parts of my life or some
stages.
I'm also in some parts of mylife or some stages.
I'm trying to compete.
If I'm in that position, if I'mthat trap, let's call it trap.
What are the steps getting outof?
Speaker 1 (06:38):
there.
Oh yeah, it's like you say.
I mean, competition is soingrained in us and typically
the most competitive people arethe people that don't appear
competitive.
You win a lot Things like that.
So a lot of our competition isvery subliminal, very
subconscious.
So what we need to do is startreally consciously looking to
(07:04):
support the people around us.
And it's always that questionif something's not going well in
your team or your company, it'slike what could I give here to
change this?
So it's from my giving, from myextending myself, the
difference.
Speaker 2 (07:21):
Now let's connect it back to our first episode, where
we talked about, you know,leadership is hearing the calls
for help.
Now, what we are claiming nowhere is that we say if somebody
fails in your team, it doesn'tdeliver the right quality, or
not on time, or not on budget.
Our typical favor is blaming,say, okay, you're not good
(07:45):
enough, so out of here, or youget a second chance If you miss
it out of here.
So what?
You're not good enough, so outof here, or you get a second
chance if you miss it out ofhere.
So what you're claiming is notblaming, but reintegrating,
being accountable and findingout the reasons, how we can
together solve it or absolutely.
Speaker 1 (08:05):
and in terms of competition, one of the acid
tests of competition is ifsomeone around you is failing,
it's because you've stoppedgiving to them and you've
started competing with them.
So if you want them not to fail, then quit your competition and
start giving to them, starthelping them, start extending
(08:27):
yourself to them, and then theywill flourish, they will achieve
what they've set out to achieve.
Speaker 2 (08:39):
So what is it that I ask to give If somebody fails on
budget, on time and quality?
What is it?
Speaker 1 (08:45):
Oh, it could be many things, but essentially it all
gets down to your support, thatyou really put your mind
yourself behind them, into, youknow, believing in them, into
giving to them, in trusting them.
You know all those things it'slike for you to get on their
(09:06):
team, get on their side, youknow, get behind them so in, in,
wow, you're asking.
Speaker 2 (09:15):
You know you're asking quite a lot, because it's
kind of paradoxic.
You know, in the traditionalway we'll say you failed, you
didn't deliver, so you getpunished.
But we all know that this willjust replace one person and then
another one will fail.
So are you going to dismisseveryone from your team or what?
Speaker 1 (09:37):
No, and that's what happens.
And when you do that, whensomeone fails and you fire them,
what happens is you increasethe fear in the team.
The fear becomes stronger andthen the people perform less,
because now they're all fearful,Because they go.
Who's next?
Speaker 2 (09:52):
Who's next.
So actually if you watchsomeone fail on the team, you
know that some sort ofcompetition is working, is
running.
I put myself on his side andsupport him and kind of make it
visible that we're all in oneboat.
Speaker 1 (10:12):
Yeah, yeah.
And you keep asking what couldI give here that would change
this whole thing?
What could I do that wouldsupport this person?
So, basically, what supportdoes is heals competition.
Speaker 2 (10:26):
Right does is heals competition.
Right now, if I'm still kind of, if I find it hard to connect
to that person, you know,because I think, well, this is a
loser and I'm a winner and Idon't want to connect with
losers, I want to be the star,yeah, so what would help me find
(10:48):
a different approach?
What would help me realize thattogether, there's more on offer
for all of us?
Yeah, yeah Well you're going tohate the answer to this one.
Speaker 1 (11:01):
I mean, it's basically, if you have an issue
with losers, it simply meansthat once upon a time you were a
loser and you've never dealtwith it.
So you don't want to be a loserbecause you're saying I'm never
going to go back there, whichmeans you always have to win,
which means you're locked in awin lose thing.
But it is only a matter of timebefore you pick a fight that
(11:25):
you will not win and you will goback to being a loser.
So it's like the way throughall this stuff is basically you
know getting back to theaccountability dealing with your
own issues and you know gettingto a place of of really being
able to connect with everybody.
It's that you know to startbecoming that friend, you know,
(11:48):
that person that just makes allthe difference.
Speaker 2 (11:52):
Now friendship.
I value friendship a lot and Ithink some would ask the
question business and friendship, how would this tie together?
Speaker 1 (12:07):
Easily.
The dynamics for leadership andthe dynamics for friendship are
the same, you know it's thesame.
Speaker 2 (12:16):
Let's explore this a little more.
So what is it about friendshipand leadership.
Speaker 1 (12:25):
Friendship is your willingness to give, and same
with leadership.
You enter a position where youshare yourself, you give of
yourself to the people aroundyou.
That's what leadership is.
Leadership is not theold-fashioned leadership.
You know it's tough at the topand you know all that kind of
stuff.
(12:45):
No, this leadership is thewillingness that you step into
the center and from the centeryou radiate out, you connect
with everyone, you give toeveryone, which is basically
what you do with friendship.
You know you overlook yourfriends mistakes.
You, you learn all that kind ofstuff.
Same with you know.
Speaker 2 (13:07):
I mean, you almost drew it wrong, but I still love
you.
Speaker 1 (13:11):
You're my friend well , yeah, you still, you know.
But sometimes it takes a realfriend to be honest to you.
You know, that's the wholething.
You know, if you really seeyour mate screwing up, I mean
you're in a position to callthem on it, you know, because
(13:31):
you know it's going to hurt themsooner or later or they're
going to get in trouble.
So you, you as a friend, needto step up, same as leadership.
Speaker 2 (13:40):
Step up right I remember you know quite a number
of cases where you know wherethere was a misunderstanding
about giving and potentially,you know, being the victim a big
(14:08):
project right now.
This is a person, is a real, agreat leader and there's one
dynamic working where hebelieves.
If I, if I continue to grow up,you know the next level, you
know I'm sucked up by everyonebecause I'm giving.
So so what do we need to learnabout giving?
Speaker 1 (14:19):
that's not giving.
This is what we all do.
Underneath all that apparentgiving, we have an agenda about
something we're gonna get, andthat's what we do.
We all hide our taking under amountain of apparent giving.
This is really common.
People can reach high levels ofsuccess, but if there's been
(14:42):
any sacrifice which is thatfeeling, I've got to carry
everybody.
If there's been any sacrifice,which is that feeling, oh, I've
got to carry everybody.
If there's any sacrifice, atsome point you will sabotage
your success Because in yourmind, subconsciously, you do not
see more success.
You see more carrying, moresacrifice.
But you need to clean up yourown act.
Speaker 2 (15:04):
You need to recognize you can only be a victim if
you're trying to take somethingso I need to create, uh, more
awareness about my patterns,about, you know, the things that
are not, uh, really on thesurface level, yeah, but that
will.
That will explain why I mayhave conflict or why I feel like
(15:27):
, you know, I'm sucked up or Idon't want to have more success
and I'm great you know.
So I think we have anothertopic here.
Speaker 1 (15:35):
We have conflict, conflict resolution for the next
episode that's true and all thethings you say, and essentially
, what's really important forbusiness, people and the world
over, especially at times likenow, is people do need to raise
their consciousness.
The problem is, people'sconsciousness is not where it
(15:58):
should be.
Speaker 2 (15:59):
Right, so that's why we are here.
You know, like you know, wehave this iceberg Exactly.
We have the diggers below thewaterline.
We like to scuba dive.
We are here, you know, like youknow, we have this iceberg
Exactly, we have the diggersbelow the waterline.
Speaker 1 (16:11):
We like to scuba dive .
Yeah, fantastic, friendly andpointing out people's blocks.
Speaker 2 (16:18):
Good work, jeff.
Again another episode that wasreally very precise, very
concise, and it was fun.
Thank you for that.
Speaker 1 (16:30):
Yeah, thank you, stefan.
Yeah, take care, stay well Toanother episode.
Thank you, ciao.
So welcome back to the Leadership Espresso podcast
today, again with Jeff Allenfrom the UK.
I'm so grateful, jeff, thatwe're doing this small series
about true leadership, creatingthe new normal in business.
Great to have you on the show.
Speaker 1 (00:17):
Great to be here, stefan, yeah.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
Yeah, let's jump right into it.
Today, it's all aboutcompetition.
Speaker 1 (00:26):
Ah, my favorite subject.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
yes, yeah, nice subject right, and we all love
competition.
You know we're brought up withcompetition In Germany.
You know we always want to bethe first, the best, we build
the best car.
We love competition.
So what's so bad aboutcompeting?
It brings out the best versionof us, right?
Speaker 1 (00:46):
yeah, but it's really tough to talk about competition
, especially to business people,because so many business people
go.
It's essential, it's important.
You have to compete in all this.
The big problem withcompetition is competition
creates winners and losers andyou might be winning, but
(01:10):
someone's got to be losing, andthe whole idea about you hear
that phrase so often win, win,but and and it's true, it's a
great thing to aspire to.
I mean usually when people say,oh, it's a win-win, you, you
know you're about to get shafted, but anyway, it's a great thing
(01:34):
to aspire to win-win.
But how can you be competitiveand win-win?
It's not going to happen.
I mean, you win for most of thetime and some of the time, but
in the end you split the worldor your company or your family
into winners and losers.
And this goes not only inbusiness, it goes all the way
(01:59):
into relationships.
Usually when a relationship ishaving the biggest fight, it's
because someone's trying to makethe other person the loser, and
the loser just will do anythingto get revenge on the winner.
So what competition does isdestroys relationships and you
(02:21):
cannot have success withoutrelationships.
Speaker 2 (02:30):
So that's the bottom line when it comes to
competition.
Now, when I put myself intosomeone working at the big
companies, I feel like being inthis Dread middle.
You know where people tell meNext year, your budget needs to
raise by 10%, or, in this, ourcase now is probably by minus
(02:53):
10% In cost.
But it's always like you gottabe better, you gotta raise the
bar, you gotta win, you gotta sowhat.
I don't get it.
If I'm that position, this iswhat I'm expected to do.
So is there more than just onesolution?
(03:13):
Or yeah, it's?
Speaker 1 (03:16):
it's.
It's not a bad thing to keep,you know, improving yourself,
finding better ways.
You, you know going for greaterand greater goals, to extend
yourself further and further.
But the truth is, you willachieve that much more easily
through mutuality than you willthrough competition.
(03:39):
When you get a team reallyworking, I mean it it becomes
unstoppable, it achieves amazingthings.
But you can't have that team andcompetition.
You just need to take your pickabout which one you're going to
do.
And, equally, you don't want topush people.
You know the extent to whichyou get your team and you push
(04:03):
them sooner or they will startpushing you back, and then you
have the seesaw.
What you need to do is motivatepeople.
You need to get people to buyinto your vision.
You need to inspire people tojoin you, to have the same goals
as you, and you do that throughconnection, mutuality, through
(04:25):
cooperation and also being thebest that you can be.
I mean, that's that's so.
It's not about reducing yourgoals and saying, oh well, we're
not going to compete, so we'regoing to lie down here and and
not strive, oh no, strive, oh no, strive.
Really go for it, go to improve, but recognize the traps of
(04:47):
competition.
Speaker 2 (04:48):
So I keep remembering that we always said competition
is based on a belief ofscarcity, right, yeah, yeah, so
that would mean that the way Iperceive the world is, there is
not enough for everyone, yeah,so if I combine that with what
(05:12):
you're saying about connection,about thriving, about opening up
, this would mean and then Icombine it to what we said the
other day about accountability,and I combine it to what we said
the other day aboutaccountability I enlarge my
realm, my field of vision of whoI integrate, right, yeah, yeah,
(05:35):
so it's like it's not.
You know, competition is kindof like you're scaling down on
the possibilities, right?
Speaker 1 (05:44):
Yeah, absolutely, and you are relying on yourself.
And the other thing is likehalf your energy in competition
goes, or more goes, to kind ofdestroying the other competitor.
So you're kind of wastingenergy.
I mean, what you do is when youwant to go for success.
(06:06):
It's like all your energy goesfor success.
You know success is?
You don't achieve successthrough competition, you achieve
success through mutuality.
Speaker 2 (06:18):
So if I and I think many leaders are in that
position, I guess I'm also insome parts of my life or some
stages.
I'm also in some parts of mylife or some stages.
I'm trying to compete.
If I'm in that position, if I'mthat trap, let's call it trap.
What are the steps getting outof?
Speaker 1 (06:38):
there.
Oh yeah, it's like you say.
I mean, competition is soingrained in us and typically
the most competitive people arethe people that don't appear
competitive.
You win a lot Things like that.
So a lot of our competition isvery subliminal, very
subconscious.
So what we need to do is startreally consciously looking to
(07:04):
support the people around us.
And it's always that questionif something's not going well in
your team or your company, it'slike what could I give here to
change this?
So it's from my giving, from myextending myself, the
difference.
Speaker 2 (07:21):
Now let's connect it back to our first episode, where
we talked about, you know,leadership is hearing the calls
for help.
Now, what we are claiming nowhere is that we say if somebody
fails in your team, it doesn'tdeliver the right quality, or
not on time, or not on budget.
Our typical favor is blaming,say, okay, you're not good
(07:45):
enough, so out of here, or youget a second chance If you miss
it out of here.
So what?
You're not good enough, so outof here, or you get a second
chance if you miss it out ofhere.
So what you're claiming is notblaming, but reintegrating,
being accountable and findingout the reasons, how we can
together solve it or absolutely.
Speaker 1 (08:05):
and in terms of competition, one of the acid
tests of competition is ifsomeone around you is failing,
it's because you've stoppedgiving to them and you've
started competing with them.
So if you want them not to fail, then quit your competition and
start giving to them, starthelping them, start extending
(08:27):
yourself to them, and then theywill flourish, they will achieve
what they've set out to achieve.
Speaker 2 (08:39):
So what is it that I ask to give If somebody fails on
budget, on time and quality?
What is it?
Speaker 1 (08:45):
Oh, it could be many things, but essentially it all
gets down to your support, thatyou really put your mind
yourself behind them, into, youknow, believing in them, into
giving to them, in trusting them.
You know all those things it'slike for you to get on their
(09:06):
team, get on their side, youknow, get behind them so in, in,
wow, you're asking.
Speaker 2 (09:15):
You know you're asking quite a lot, because it's
kind of paradoxic.
You know, in the traditionalway we'll say you failed, you
didn't deliver, so you getpunished.
But we all know that this willjust replace one person and then
another one will fail.
So are you going to dismisseveryone from your team or what?
Speaker 1 (09:37):
No, and that's what happens.
And when you do that, whensomeone fails and you fire them,
what happens is you increasethe fear in the team.
The fear becomes stronger andthen the people perform less,
because now they're all fearful,Because they go.
Who's next?
Speaker 2 (09:52):
Who's next.
So actually if you watchsomeone fail on the team, you
know that some sort ofcompetition is working, is
running.
I put myself on his side andsupport him and kind of make it
visible that we're all in oneboat.
Speaker 1 (10:12):
Yeah, yeah.
And you keep asking what couldI give here that would change
this whole thing?
What could I do that wouldsupport this person?
So, basically, what supportdoes is heals competition.
Speaker 2 (10:26):
Right does is heals competition.
Right now, if I'm still kind of, if I find it hard to connect
to that person, you know,because I think, well, this is a
loser and I'm a winner and Idon't want to connect with
losers, I want to be the star,yeah, so what would help me find
(10:48):
a different approach?
What would help me realize thattogether, there's more on offer
for all of us?
Yeah, yeah Well you're going tohate the answer to this one.
Speaker 1 (11:01):
I mean, it's basically, if you have an issue
with losers, it simply meansthat once upon a time you were a
loser and you've never dealtwith it.
So you don't want to be a loserbecause you're saying I'm never
going to go back there, whichmeans you always have to win,
which means you're locked in awin lose thing.
But it is only a matter of timebefore you pick a fight that
(11:25):
you will not win and you will goback to being a loser.
So it's like the way throughall this stuff is basically you
know getting back to theaccountability dealing with your
own issues and you know gettingto a place of of really being
able to connect with everybody.
It's that you know to startbecoming that friend, you know,
(11:48):
that person that just makes allthe difference.
Speaker 2 (11:52):
Now friendship.
I value friendship a lot and Ithink some would ask the
question business and friendship, how would this tie together?
Speaker 1 (12:07):
Easily.
The dynamics for leadership andthe dynamics for friendship are
the same, you know it's thesame.
Speaker 2 (12:16):
Let's explore this a little more.
So what is it about friendshipand leadership.
Speaker 1 (12:25):
Friendship is your willingness to give, and same
with leadership.
You enter a position where youshare yourself, you give of
yourself to the people aroundyou.
That's what leadership is.
Leadership is not theold-fashioned leadership.
You know it's tough at the topand you know all that kind of
stuff.
(12:45):
No, this leadership is thewillingness that you step into
the center and from the centeryou radiate out, you connect
with everyone, you give toeveryone, which is basically
what you do with friendship.
You know you overlook yourfriends mistakes.
You, you learn all that kind ofstuff.
Same with you know.
Speaker 2 (13:07):
I mean, you almost drew it wrong, but I still love
you.
Speaker 1 (13:11):
You're my friend well , yeah, you still, you know.
But sometimes it takes a realfriend to be honest to you.
You know, that's the wholething.
You know, if you really seeyour mate screwing up, I mean
you're in a position to callthem on it, you know, because
(13:31):
you know it's going to hurt themsooner or later or they're
going to get in trouble.
So you, you as a friend, needto step up, same as leadership.
Speaker 2 (13:40):
Step up right I remember you know quite a number
of cases where you know wherethere was a misunderstanding
about giving and potentially,you know, being the victim a big
(14:08):
project right now.
This is a person, is a real, agreat leader and there's one
dynamic working where hebelieves.
If I, if I continue to grow up,you know the next level, you
know I'm sucked up by everyonebecause I'm giving.
So so what do we need to learnabout giving?
Speaker 1 (14:19):
that's not giving.
This is what we all do.
Underneath all that apparentgiving, we have an agenda about
something we're gonna get, andthat's what we do.
We all hide our taking under amountain of apparent giving.
This is really common.
People can reach high levels ofsuccess, but if there's been
(14:42):
any sacrifice which is thatfeeling, I've got to carry
everybody.
If there's been any sacrifice,which is that feeling, oh, I've
got to carry everybody.
If there's any sacrifice, atsome point you will sabotage
your success Because in yourmind, subconsciously, you do not
see more success.
You see more carrying, moresacrifice.
But you need to clean up yourown act.
Speaker 2 (15:04):
You need to recognize you can only be a victim if
you're trying to take somethingso I need to create, uh, more
awareness about my patterns,about, you know, the things that
are not, uh, really on thesurface level, yeah, but that
will.
That will explain why I mayhave conflict or why I feel like
(15:27):
, you know, I'm sucked up or Idon't want to have more success
and I'm great you know.
So I think we have anothertopic here.
Speaker 1 (15:35):
We have conflict, conflict resolution for the next
episode that's true and all thethings you say, and essentially
, what's really important forbusiness, people and the world
over, especially at times likenow, is people do need to raise
their consciousness.
The problem is, people'sconsciousness is not where it
(15:58):
should be.
Speaker 2 (15:59):
Right, so that's why we are here.
You know, like you know, wehave this iceberg Exactly.
We have the diggers below thewaterline.
We like to scuba dive.
We are here, you know, like youknow, we have this iceberg
Exactly, we have the diggersbelow the waterline.
Speaker 1 (16:11):
We like to scuba dive .
Yeah, fantastic, friendly andpointing out people's blocks.
Speaker 2 (16:18):
Good work, jeff.
Again another episode that wasreally very precise, very
concise, and it was fun.
Thank you for that.
Speaker 1 (16:30):
Yeah, thank you, stefan.
Yeah, take care, stay well Toanother episode.
Thank you, ciao.
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.