What happens when you buy a 180-year-old family business that desperately needs transformation but has no clear path forward? Astrid shares the remarkable journey of how she revitalized the Berenson Group by building trust rather than demanding change.
When Astrid acquired this promotional products company with approximately 1,000 employees, she faced an organization paralyzed by uncertainty. Rather than imposing solutions, she spent her first hundred days conducting one-on-one interviews, asking everyone the same powerful questions: "What could be our growth path?" and "What would you personally change?" This approach immediately signaled that transformation would be collaborative, not dictatorial.
The transformation stories Astrid shares demonstrate profound leadership wisdom applicable to any organization facing change. She explains how she broke tradition by personally leading the sales department to understand the challenges of transitioning from physical promotional products to digital visibility solutions. Instead of forcing change through mandatory training, she identified naturally talented "local heroes" within the sales team who inspired their peers – creating a pull strategy rather than a push strategy that achieved an astonishing 80% adoption rate of new digital services.
Throughout our conversation, Astrid reveals how constant reinforcement of vision, creating psychological safety, and establishing trust as the foundation of all interactions transformed an anxious workforce into an enthusiastic team ready for growth. Her approach to leading through transformation offers a masterclass in human-centered change management that balances business needs with genuine care for people.
Whether you're leading a startup or transforming a legacy business, this episode provides actionable insights on creating meaningful change that brings people along rather than leaving them behind. Subscribe to gain leadership wisdom directly from executives who've successfully navigated major organizational transformations.
Listen to the Leadership Espresso Podcast:
https://open.spotify.com/show/4OT3BYzDHMafETOMgFEor3
View the Leadership Espresso Podcast:
https://www.youtube.com/@Stefangoetz_Global_Leadership/videos
Connect with Stefan Götz on LinkedIn:
https://www.linkedin.com/in/stefangoetz/
Check out Stefan's Executive and Team Coaching
https://www.stefan-goetz.com/
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Hi, astrid, back again.
Part number two of our podcastand your truly phenomenal story.
Part number one whoever missedit, just look it up on our
YouTube channel, gert's GlobalLeadership, and watch the reason
why Astrid truly transformedand reinvented her leadership.
(00:23):
So there you find the pillars,the reasons why someone really
is changing.
Now part number two all thatchange was preparation for
another task, for anotherchallenge, for another adventure
.
Now, about three years ago,astrid bought a company called
(00:45):
Berenson Berenson Group.
That is a group that was basedaround selling promotional items
and it was family-owned forabout 180 years and it had a
strong culture about us, aboutthe family and about believing
in that family that they wouldguide the ship, and that was
(01:06):
great.
But the ship has a number ofholes let's call it this way and
needed fixing, needed somehoweven think about the course for
the next maybe 180 years.
So in that respect, we want totalk about what did happen.
Why did it happen?
And, most specifically, astridand that is the first question
(01:30):
is like I can imagine that thethousand people, the sound stuff
that you actually had,everybody knew, somebody knew it
was coming in and obviouslythere was a need for change and
you reported that people hadsome sort of concern, some even
maybe a little bit of fear whatwill happen?
(01:51):
How do we have to change?
So how did you address thatelement?
Speaker 2 (01:59):
Thanks for having me again, stefan, to say first.
Me again, stefan, to say first.
So this element of fear ofrespect, I think was deep in in
the people's heart and in thepeople's head, because I think
main problem was that everyoneknew well, the company has to
change and the business modelhas to change, but there was no
(02:20):
clear way designed how to dothis.
And I think I mean it's thesame in the personal life, so
you are afraid if you don't knowhow to get out anywhere.
So I think when I came, thefirst thing was not that I
thought okay, we're notprofitable, so we have to fire
30% of staff.
(02:41):
So the first idea was that wehave this asset, we have the
access to 100,000 of small,medium companies, so how can we
make a success story again outof it?
And the objective was to definea strategy, how we can use
these assets together with ateam of Berenson, and to find
(03:03):
out a way everyone can share tosit in one boat.
And what I did when I came wasin the first hundred days.
So every CEO, I think, wondersso what do I have to do in the
first hundred days?
And I talked almost to everyonehere in Hamburg and also to
many people in Brisevitz, whereour production site is, and I
asked everyone in one-to-oneinterviews so what can be the
(03:27):
growth path of Berenson?
So what is your idea?
And if you could change things,what would you personally do
and what can be yourcontribution to change Berenson?
And so I didn't come into thecompany saying so I know how
it's like and I know exactly theway and I know how we do it.
And first we have to get rid ofmany people.
(03:49):
But we, we approached thistogether.
So it was not I'm coming andI'm against you, but it was more
.
So we are in a process and wewhich was very important after
these 100 days and after allthese interviews we defined a
mission together.
So what is what we really wantto do in the future and why?
(04:11):
And a clear objective as avision, where we want to go.
And also we discussed a lotabout what are the values we
want to share, because I thinktransformation doesn't only mean
we change the business modelinto something which is
sustainable, but we also have tochange like the, the company in
(04:32):
the heart and the culture as adefinition.
Culture is what everyone doesin every second, so it's, it's a
huge thing.
So we define values and we saidwe draw this image together in
a team.
So how would Berenson be likein the future?
To be a wonderful place whereeveryone wants to work?
And what do we want to have asas like a company image we want
(04:58):
to be a part of and we identifywith?
and I think this process I meanit took some time and I'm sure
that some people said so she'stalking a lot and she's
listening a lot and she talks toclient.
What is she doing?
Because everyone knew we need asolution how to change our
(05:28):
values are the basement of ourclear strategy we have now and I
think this is a big wave.
First it was a small wave, sosome people believed in this,
and then the wave got bigger andbigger and bigger and I think
now after three years.
So we're in the middle of thetransformation and so I think
the majority of our employeessays I understand the, I like
the strategy and I want to bepart of building Berenson to the
(05:49):
company I would like to have.
Speaker 1 (05:53):
Beautiful.
Let's pick out the main issuesand address them like a takeaway
, because that's a beautiful anda very powerful story and I
guess most of our audiences havebeen involved or will be
involved in some sort oftransformation of projects,
particularly at these times ofthe pandemic, because, let's
(06:16):
face it, the business modelsneed to be reviewed, the
cultures need to be reviewed.
So what I heard was yourstarting point was a more
receptive point.
So instead of going in sayingokay, I have an idea how this
needs to change, you kind ofwent into the place and first
(06:38):
gave some safety, some securityto the staff, saying everyone
will be in that boat, we willtogether make this journey.
No one left behind, no man leftbehind, no woman left behind.
We will make this journeytogether.
(06:58):
Now that is a very strong, notjust a metaphor, but that's a
leadership attitude right Now.
Could you explain more indetail how people responded to
that?
You know you told us thatpreviously they all kind of
(07:22):
looked up to the family and saidyou will sort the problem.
Now, how did they react and howdid you cope with that?
The human way?
Speaker 2 (07:32):
So I think, to start with, it was good for people
that I didn't say you have tochange, otherwise you're out.
Yes, I think this was sort oflike releasing that.
Um, I said we all go this waytogether, and so I have to say
that also myself I I wasn'tafraid, but I had a lot of
(07:55):
respect and, uh, I think I thinkwhat made me credible was also
that people understood that Ihave respect also, and this
respect keeps me open,transparent, and I think this
helped people to deal with theirown fears, because I think I
(08:20):
leaded the strategy from thebeginning pretty strongly.
But I also said we don't knowthis is the way we want to go,
and we try every day to do thebest to get the strategy done
and to be successful, but ifsomething doesn't work, I mean,
then it doesn't work.
We have to change the strategy,not the complete strategy, but
we have to change some ways, andI think this helped people to
(08:43):
relax a little bit, because Ithink if you have fear as a
dominant feeling, so it's hardto transform yourself and so, as
we said, we go this waytogether and I, from the
beginning you know I was in themiddle of the transformation, I
didn't say so, I'm in thesteering committee, so you all
transfer, I define the businessmodel I really went pretty much
(09:07):
into detail and so I, forinstance, I pretty quickly
decided to lead the salesdepartment myself, which was not
in the history of Berenson thatthe CEO leads the sales
department themselves, thehistory of Berenson, that the
CEO leads the sales departmentthemselves.
But I thought, if I don't go inthe depth of the sales
structure, so it's hard for mereally to understand what is
(09:30):
needed and what is exactly thestatus of the salespeople,
because this is our asset.
I mean, you have to imaginethere are hundreds of
salespeople and they have a bigBerenson heart and this is a
treasure and they really want togo for the company.
And I really had to understandmyself how shall we act?
(09:51):
How have to we do?
We have to transform ourstrategy into the sales
department in order to besuccessful.
And I can't say only soldpromotional products so far.
Now you have to sell digitalproducts, because this was part
of our strategy.
To say so, we go from thevisibility on products to the
(10:14):
visibility digitally.
So we sell websites, we selllocal listings, we sell Zia, et
cetera.
So you can't only press abutton and say so now you have
to change everything what youdid in the past 20 years.
So we really had to talk, wehad to understand what the fears
are, we had to convince thatthis is a win-win situation for
(10:37):
the client as well, to not onlyto get sold like pens, like pens
or gifts, but also websites andlocal listing, etc.
So, um, this was a long way,but I had to go into detail for
this yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 1 (10:52):
And I just put myself in the position of someone in
the sales department.
When a new owner is coming, anew ceo is coming and he takes
over the sales department, I'llbe having tremendous amounts of
respect, say, wow, now I have aflash of a thousand.
What?
So?
(11:12):
How did you help them?
Uh, you know, feel safe.
How did you help them get theidea?
It's not about you, know, youridea, it's about them.
Speaker 2 (11:26):
It's about togetherness, it's about we make
it so I think it's clear thatsuch a huge transformation
cannot be done from the outside.
So wrong thing would have beento say we get a consultant firm
and they transform everyone inthe business model.
And then it's so clear was thatit has to come from within and
(11:47):
from inside.
And so what we did, forinstance, is that some sales
people they're very, verytalented in some things.
So, for instance, there's theirtalents for digital products.
So we didn't say everyone hasto sell digital products.
We say we said so.
This person, for instance, he isreally talented and he
(12:10):
understands exactly how to sellit.
So he's a kind of local heroand we made um like him as a
hero for a group of five to tenother sales people.
And this was not push you haveto change the way you sell but
it was I inspire you.
And this was not done by ourtraining department, which would
(12:30):
have been the normal way toteach people.
This was done from within.
So salespeople trained othersalespeople and they motivated
each other.
So like to be in one direction.
Dealing with some issues of oursales organization is much
better as only to follow yourstructure.
(12:52):
Following your structure wouldsay so.
My boss says I have to, so I doand I can't do it.
So the training department iscoming and trains me.
So this was the old way andthis is a way in many, many
sales structures and we try tochange from the inside and to
motivate people.
And this is huge.
The success is really bigbecause, um, it's uh, it's not a
(13:15):
push strategy.
You have to, but it's a pullstrategy.
So he's successful with digitalproducts and I'm not, so I want
to learn from him and, as aresult, 80% of our salespeople
now sell these digital products.
In the beginning, we thoughtthis will be so tough and
(13:36):
everyone from the outside said,no, this won't work, because
people I mean they sellpromotional products, nothing
else since 20 years and we havemany people being with us since
20 years.
You know, and finally thisworks.
We're still in the middle of atransformation, but I know now
it works and people are reallyenthusiastic about it and really
know now this is the way we goand I feel myself that I am
(13:56):
talking a different way to theclients.
I feel myself that my world isbigger now and that's why I know
the company was successful andso the fear is gone and I I'm
pretty sure that people now atberenstain they're not afraid
anymore.
They know it's hard and I meanthere will be hurdles.
I mean there are hurdles every,every day yeah but we know where
(14:20):
we go and we know we we willmake it, because we feel it that
, yeah, we will be successful.
Speaker 1 (14:26):
Astrid.
Now, actually I stands youapplied the same strategy in two
different areas.
You said you, you shifted thebusiness model from selling
promotional items, which isproduct selling you're pushing
to the market.
You shifted that to putting thesmaller, medium sized customers
(14:49):
in the center and theirvisibility on their market.
Now I believe you did the sameinside, because you made your
salespeople be visible, and theninto the center, into the
middle of that.
It's their support, it's theirapproach.
(15:13):
Now, I guess some of them wouldhave taken it easily, some may
be more difficult.
How did you cope with the, theones and I'm not saying it's a
personal issue, but how did youaddress when, when there was a
hurdle, when there was a barrier?
How did you walk around this?
Speaker 2 (15:33):
so I think our vision is so key and sometimes I felt
a little bit like a prayer,because I traveled a lot and in
every regional salesorganization I repeated again
and again, and again our vision.
And I think this is reallyimportant Also in my daily life.
I mean, sometimes I have dayswhere I have thousands of
(15:56):
hurdles and I think for myselfif I wouldn't see every time the
vision, because when you enterour office there's our vision
and if you enter the regionalsales departments, there's
always our vision and I repeatit and I repeat it and I repeat
it because then I think it'seasier also for myself to get
over these day to day hurdles.
(16:17):
It's easier also for myself toget over these day-to-day
hurdles because I think it'salways, you know, like the
attitude, how you look on thingsand it's your decision.
You know you can.
If something goes wrong, you cansay, um, okay, again it goes
wrong, so we won't be able tomanage it.
Or you can say, okay, sothere's a vision, it's clear
we're gonna make it.
And oh, have a look, there's avision, it's clear, we're going
to make it.
And oh, have a look, there's alittle hurdle on it, you know.
(16:38):
And um, so I think it's um, youknow it's, it's.
Speaker 1 (16:45):
It's mainly the way you look at it and the vision
helps to, to give the the big umdirection right now to finish
up, what were the values thatyou put into place and how do
they reflect also the newculture and the practices?
Speaker 2 (17:06):
So myself and also my vision of how I would like to
lead Berenson is to trust, totrust.
So this is my, my major, Ithink, link how I deal with
(17:26):
people, that I always start withtrust, and this is something
really important.
When I came to Berenson, therewas not, I felt not a lot of
trust, also to each other, sopeople blamed each other a
little bit because I guess theywere afraid if I don't do
self-marketing and I blamesomeone, perhaps it's negative
for me.
And I think if you create amatter like an organization of
(17:49):
trust and you know that we allgo in this direction and
everyone is giving the best, Ithink then you you can create a
culture of like acceptingfailure, you can be connected
and then also you can solveproblems Because I think many
(18:10):
energy is lost when you create,when you are in this aggressive,
in this aggressive disputeswho's uh blamed for any any
mistake?
because sometimes shit happens,you know.
And then you have to say,basically we trust each other.
So this happened, and we don'tthink about who's to be blamed,
(18:31):
but we think about how can wesolve it and how will this
problem not happen again.
So trust for me is key.
I mean, this is my personallife, this is key, but also in
my business life, this is key.
And certainly what you have tosay is because when I in this
big organization, you know, withmany, many people, I felt so
good after a certain time that Itrusted.
(18:53):
And certainly there are alsopeople when I say you didn't
gain my trust, you know, andthen you have to separate, you
get people, let people go andsay this doesn't work, because
if you have the feeling that youcan't trust anyone and you're
betrayed or you, you know, youfeel that someone is not honest
and it's not going this way withyou, then you have to say okay,
we have to separate, there's noother way.
Speaker 1 (19:13):
Then you have to say okay, we have to separate.
There's no other way.
So trust is key, creating asafe space of learning, of
failing, and that is all in thisone vision of we make it all
together, no one left behind, nowoman left behind, no man left
(19:37):
behind.
I think that is a very strongpicture and certainly one that
gives people the power toflourish, and certainly some of
them will feel I don't belong tothe chip anymore because I was
used in a different way and andand, as you put it.
Then you let them go, you know,and not throwing them out, but
you let them go and maybe evensupport them on their journey.
(19:58):
So what is your journey for thenext couple of months?
Speaker 2 (20:07):
Well, we have now our ship pretty stable, which is
good, so the Berenson ship isnow moving in this direction,
and so I think it's importantreally to follow your strategy
and to go 100% for it.
And we still will launch somenew digital products, like
(20:28):
newsletter marketing and Zaya,in the next month, and so we
want to hire more people now,because I think we're ready now
and our assortment is great, ourpeople are in a good mood and
now it's also time to enlargeour organization and to get
salesperson.
So we we're in a growthattitude and mindset and I think
(20:51):
we will fulfill this next yearand I'm very much looking
forward to that.
Speaker 1 (20:57):
Awesome, a real, very authentic and profound personal
story and corporate story, infinishing with a story of
expansion in those times of thepandemic.
You are hiring, so I will seeLinkedIn.
We are hiring now in the futureis a phenomenal story and I'm
sure there's a lot to learn.
(21:19):
So maybe, astrid, we will haveanother podcast, maybe in half a
year or a year, and to find outthe next steps about the
journey and what we canpotentially learn from them and
from your lessons learned onthis way we call human is the
next big thing.
So I really appreciated havingyou on the show and it's all
(21:43):
about leadership espresso whatelse?
Inspiration?
Speaker 2 (21:49):
Thanks for having me, stefan.
Bye-bye, see you in six months,yeah.
Hi, astrid, back again.
Part number two of our podcastand your truly phenomenal story.
Part number one whoever missedit, just look it up on our
YouTube channel, gert's GlobalLeadership, and watch the reason
why Astrid truly transformedand reinvented her leadership.
(00:23):
So there you find the pillars,the reasons why someone really
is changing.
Now part number two all thatchange was preparation for
another task, for anotherchallenge, for another adventure
.
Now, about three years ago,astrid bought a company called
(00:45):
Berenson Berenson Group.
That is a group that was basedaround selling promotional items
and it was family-owned forabout 180 years and it had a
strong culture about us, aboutthe family and about believing
in that family that they wouldguide the ship, and that was
(01:06):
great.
But the ship has a number ofholes let's call it this way and
needed fixing, needed somehoweven think about the course for
the next maybe 180 years.
So in that respect, we want totalk about what did happen.
Why did it happen?
And, most specifically, astridand that is the first question
(01:30):
is like I can imagine that thethousand people, the sound stuff
that you actually had,everybody knew, somebody knew it
was coming in and obviouslythere was a need for change and
you reported that people hadsome sort of concern, some even
maybe a little bit of fear whatwill happen?
(01:51):
How do we have to change?
So how did you address thatelement?
Speaker 2 (01:59):
Thanks for having me again, stefan, to say first.
Me again, stefan, to say first.
So this element of fear ofrespect, I think was deep in in
the people's heart and in thepeople's head, because I think
main problem was that everyoneknew well, the company has to
change and the business modelhas to change, but there was no
(02:20):
clear way designed how to dothis.
And I think I mean it's thesame in the personal life, so
you are afraid if you don't knowhow to get out anywhere.
So I think when I came, thefirst thing was not that I
thought okay, we're notprofitable, so we have to fire
30% of staff.
(02:41):
So the first idea was that wehave this asset, we have the
access to 100,000 of small,medium companies, so how can we
make a success story again outof it?
And the objective was to definea strategy, how we can use
these assets together with ateam of Berenson, and to find
(03:03):
out a way everyone can share tosit in one boat.
And what I did when I came wasin the first hundred days.
So every CEO, I think, wondersso what do I have to do in the
first hundred days?
And I talked almost to everyonehere in Hamburg and also to
many people in Brisevitz, whereour production site is, and I
asked everyone in one-to-oneinterviews so what can be the
(03:27):
growth path of Berenson?
So what is your idea?
And if you could change things,what would you personally do
and what can be yourcontribution to change Berenson?
And so I didn't come into thecompany saying so I know how
it's like and I know exactly theway and I know how we do it.
And first we have to get rid ofmany people.
(03:49):
But we, we approached thistogether.
So it was not I'm coming andI'm against you, but it was more
.
So we are in a process and wewhich was very important after
these 100 days and after allthese interviews we defined a
mission together.
So what is what we really wantto do in the future and why?
(04:11):
And a clear objective as avision, where we want to go.
And also we discussed a lotabout what are the values we
want to share, because I thinktransformation doesn't only mean
we change the business modelinto something which is
sustainable, but we also have tochange like the, the company in
(04:32):
the heart and the culture as adefinition.
Culture is what everyone doesin every second, so it's, it's a
huge thing.
So we define values and we saidwe draw this image together in
a team.
So how would Berenson be likein the future?
To be a wonderful place whereeveryone wants to work?
And what do we want to have asas like a company image we want
(04:58):
to be a part of and we identifywith?
and I think this process I meanit took some time and I'm sure
that some people said so she'stalking a lot and she's
listening a lot and she talks toclient.
What is she doing?
Because everyone knew we need asolution how to change our
(05:28):
values are the basement of ourclear strategy we have now and I
think this is a big wave.
First it was a small wave, sosome people believed in this,
and then the wave got bigger andbigger and bigger and I think
now after three years.
So we're in the middle of thetransformation and so I think
the majority of our employeessays I understand the, I like
the strategy and I want to bepart of building Berenson to the
(05:49):
company I would like to have.
Speaker 1 (05:53):
Beautiful.
Let's pick out the main issuesand address them like a takeaway
, because that's a beautiful anda very powerful story and I
guess most of our audiences havebeen involved or will be
involved in some sort oftransformation of projects,
particularly at these times ofthe pandemic, because, let's
(06:16):
face it, the business modelsneed to be reviewed, the
cultures need to be reviewed.
So what I heard was yourstarting point was a more
receptive point.
So instead of going in sayingokay, I have an idea how this
needs to change, you kind ofwent into the place and first
(06:38):
gave some safety, some securityto the staff, saying everyone
will be in that boat, we willtogether make this journey.
No one left behind, no man leftbehind, no woman left behind.
We will make this journeytogether.
(06:58):
Now that is a very strong, notjust a metaphor, but that's a
leadership attitude right Now.
Could you explain more indetail how people responded to
that?
You know you told us thatpreviously they all kind of
(07:22):
looked up to the family and saidyou will sort the problem.
Now, how did they react and howdid you cope with that?
The human way?
Speaker 2 (07:32):
So I think, to start with, it was good for people
that I didn't say you have tochange, otherwise you're out.
Yes, I think this was sort oflike releasing that.
Um, I said we all go this waytogether, and so I have to say
that also myself I I wasn'tafraid, but I had a lot of
(07:55):
respect and, uh, I think I thinkwhat made me credible was also
that people understood that Ihave respect also, and this
respect keeps me open,transparent, and I think this
helped people to deal with theirown fears, because I think I
(08:20):
leaded the strategy from thebeginning pretty strongly.
But I also said we don't knowthis is the way we want to go,
and we try every day to do thebest to get the strategy done
and to be successful, but ifsomething doesn't work, I mean,
then it doesn't work.
We have to change the strategy,not the complete strategy, but
we have to change some ways, andI think this helped people to
(08:43):
relax a little bit, because Ithink if you have fear as a
dominant feeling, so it's hardto transform yourself and so, as
we said, we go this waytogether and I, from the
beginning you know I was in themiddle of the transformation, I
didn't say so, I'm in thesteering committee, so you all
transfer, I define the businessmodel I really went pretty much
(09:07):
into detail and so I, forinstance, I pretty quickly
decided to lead the salesdepartment myself, which was not
in the history of Berenson thatthe CEO leads the sales
department themselves, thehistory of Berenson, that the
CEO leads the sales departmentthemselves.
But I thought, if I don't go inthe depth of the sales
structure, so it's hard for mereally to understand what is
(09:30):
needed and what is exactly thestatus of the salespeople,
because this is our asset.
I mean, you have to imaginethere are hundreds of
salespeople and they have a bigBerenson heart and this is a
treasure and they really want togo for the company.
And I really had to understandmyself how shall we act?
(09:51):
How have to we do?
We have to transform ourstrategy into the sales
department in order to besuccessful.
And I can't say only soldpromotional products so far.
Now you have to sell digitalproducts, because this was part
of our strategy.
To say so, we go from thevisibility on products to the
(10:14):
visibility digitally.
So we sell websites, we selllocal listings, we sell Zia, et
cetera.
So you can't only press abutton and say so now you have
to change everything what youdid in the past 20 years.
So we really had to talk, wehad to understand what the fears
are, we had to convince thatthis is a win-win situation for
(10:37):
the client as well, to not onlyto get sold like pens, like pens
or gifts, but also websites andlocal listing, etc.
So, um, this was a long way,but I had to go into detail for
this yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 1 (10:52):
And I just put myself in the position of someone in
the sales department.
When a new owner is coming, anew ceo is coming and he takes
over the sales department, I'llbe having tremendous amounts of
respect, say, wow, now I have aflash of a thousand.
What?
So?
(11:12):
How did you help them?
Uh, you know, feel safe.
How did you help them get theidea?
It's not about you, know, youridea, it's about them.
Speaker 2 (11:26):
It's about togetherness, it's about we make
it so I think it's clear thatsuch a huge transformation
cannot be done from the outside.
So wrong thing would have beento say we get a consultant firm
and they transform everyone inthe business model.
And then it's so clear was thatit has to come from within and
(11:47):
from inside.
And so what we did, forinstance, is that some sales
people they're very, verytalented in some things.
So, for instance, there's theirtalents for digital products.
So we didn't say everyone hasto sell digital products.
We say we said so.
This person, for instance, he isreally talented and he
(12:10):
understands exactly how to sellit.
So he's a kind of local heroand we made um like him as a
hero for a group of five to tenother sales people.
And this was not push you haveto change the way you sell but
it was I inspire you.
And this was not done by ourtraining department, which would
(12:30):
have been the normal way toteach people.
This was done from within.
So salespeople trained othersalespeople and they motivated
each other.
So like to be in one direction.
Dealing with some issues of oursales organization is much
better as only to follow yourstructure.
(12:52):
Following your structure wouldsay so.
My boss says I have to, so I doand I can't do it.
So the training department iscoming and trains me.
So this was the old way andthis is a way in many, many
sales structures and we try tochange from the inside and to
motivate people.
And this is huge.
The success is really bigbecause, um, it's uh, it's not a
(13:15):
push strategy.
You have to, but it's a pullstrategy.
So he's successful with digitalproducts and I'm not, so I want
to learn from him and, as aresult, 80% of our salespeople
now sell these digital products.
In the beginning, we thoughtthis will be so tough and
(13:36):
everyone from the outside said,no, this won't work, because
people I mean they sellpromotional products, nothing
else since 20 years and we havemany people being with us since
20 years.
You know, and finally thisworks.
We're still in the middle of atransformation, but I know now
it works and people are reallyenthusiastic about it and really
know now this is the way we goand I feel myself that I am
(13:56):
talking a different way to theclients.
I feel myself that my world isbigger now and that's why I know
the company was successful andso the fear is gone and I I'm
pretty sure that people now atberenstain they're not afraid
anymore.
They know it's hard and I meanthere will be hurdles.
I mean there are hurdles every,every day yeah but we know where
(14:20):
we go and we know we we willmake it, because we feel it that
, yeah, we will be successful.
Speaker 1 (14:26):
Astrid.
Now, actually I stands youapplied the same strategy in two
different areas.
You said you, you shifted thebusiness model from selling
promotional items, which isproduct selling you're pushing
to the market.
You shifted that to putting thesmaller, medium sized customers
(14:49):
in the center and theirvisibility on their market.
Now I believe you did the sameinside, because you made your
salespeople be visible, and theninto the center, into the
middle of that.
It's their support, it's theirapproach.
(15:13):
Now, I guess some of them wouldhave taken it easily, some may
be more difficult.
How did you cope with the, theones and I'm not saying it's a
personal issue, but how did youaddress when, when there was a
hurdle, when there was a barrier?
How did you walk around this?
Speaker 2 (15:33):
so I think our vision is so key and sometimes I felt
a little bit like a prayer,because I traveled a lot and in
every regional salesorganization I repeated again
and again, and again our vision.
And I think this is reallyimportant Also in my daily life.
I mean, sometimes I have dayswhere I have thousands of
(15:56):
hurdles and I think for myselfif I wouldn't see every time the
vision, because when you enterour office there's our vision
and if you enter the regionalsales departments, there's
always our vision and I repeatit and I repeat it and I repeat
it because then I think it'seasier also for myself to get
over these day to day hurdles.
(16:17):
It's easier also for myself toget over these day-to-day
hurdles because I think it'salways, you know, like the
attitude, how you look on thingsand it's your decision.
You know you can.
If something goes wrong, you cansay, um, okay, again it goes
wrong, so we won't be able tomanage it.
Or you can say, okay, sothere's a vision, it's clear
we're gonna make it.
And oh, have a look, there's avision, it's clear, we're going
to make it.
And oh, have a look, there's alittle hurdle on it, you know.
(16:38):
And um, so I think it's um, youknow it's, it's.
Speaker 1 (16:45):
It's mainly the way you look at it and the vision
helps to, to give the the big umdirection right now to finish
up, what were the values thatyou put into place and how do
they reflect also the newculture and the practices?
Speaker 2 (17:06):
So myself and also my vision of how I would like to
lead Berenson is to trust, totrust.
So this is my, my major, Ithink, link how I deal with
(17:26):
people, that I always start withtrust, and this is something
really important.
When I came to Berenson, therewas not, I felt not a lot of
trust, also to each other, sopeople blamed each other a
little bit because I guess theywere afraid if I don't do
self-marketing and I blamesomeone, perhaps it's negative
for me.
And I think if you create amatter like an organization of
(17:49):
trust and you know that we allgo in this direction and
everyone is giving the best, Ithink then you you can create a
culture of like acceptingfailure, you can be connected
and then also you can solveproblems Because I think many
(18:10):
energy is lost when you create,when you are in this aggressive,
in this aggressive disputeswho's uh blamed for any any
mistake?
because sometimes shit happens,you know.
And then you have to say,basically we trust each other.
So this happened, and we don'tthink about who's to be blamed,
(18:31):
but we think about how can wesolve it and how will this
problem not happen again.
So trust for me is key.
I mean, this is my personallife, this is key, but also in
my business life, this is key.
And certainly what you have tosay is because when I in this
big organization, you know, withmany, many people, I felt so
good after a certain time that Itrusted.
(18:53):
And certainly there are alsopeople when I say you didn't
gain my trust, you know, andthen you have to separate, you
get people, let people go andsay this doesn't work, because
if you have the feeling that youcan't trust anyone and you're
betrayed or you, you know, youfeel that someone is not honest
and it's not going this way withyou, then you have to say okay,
we have to separate, there's noother way.
Speaker 1 (19:13):
Then you have to say okay, we have to separate.
There's no other way.
So trust is key, creating asafe space of learning, of
failing, and that is all in thisone vision of we make it all
together, no one left behind, nowoman left behind, no man left
(19:37):
behind.
I think that is a very strongpicture and certainly one that
gives people the power toflourish, and certainly some of
them will feel I don't belong tothe chip anymore because I was
used in a different way and andand, as you put it.
Then you let them go, you know,and not throwing them out, but
you let them go and maybe evensupport them on their journey.
(19:58):
So what is your journey for thenext couple of months?
Speaker 2 (20:07):
Well, we have now our ship pretty stable, which is
good, so the Berenson ship isnow moving in this direction,
and so I think it's importantreally to follow your strategy
and to go 100% for it.
And we still will launch somenew digital products, like
(20:28):
newsletter marketing and Zaya,in the next month, and so we
want to hire more people now,because I think we're ready now
and our assortment is great, ourpeople are in a good mood and
now it's also time to enlargeour organization and to get
salesperson.
So we we're in a growthattitude and mindset and I think
(20:51):
we will fulfill this next yearand I'm very much looking
forward to that.
Speaker 1 (20:57):
Awesome, a real, very authentic and profound personal
story and corporate story, infinishing with a story of
expansion in those times of thepandemic.
You are hiring, so I will seeLinkedIn.
We are hiring now in the futureis a phenomenal story and I'm
sure there's a lot to learn.
(21:19):
So maybe, astrid, we will haveanother podcast, maybe in half a
year or a year, and to find outthe next steps about the
journey and what we canpotentially learn from them and
from your lessons learned onthis way we call human is the
next big thing.
So I really appreciated havingyou on the show and it's all
(21:43):
about leadership espresso whatelse?
Inspiration?
Speaker 2 (21:49):
Thanks for having me, stefan.
Bye-bye, see you in six months,yeah.
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