April 9, 2025 • 16 mins
Leadership isn't about charging ahead full steam—it's about positioning yourself at the center of the wheel, staying calm, and listening deeply. Jeff Allen, a business leader with experience as a container ship captain, shares how navigating stormy business conditions requires exceptional awareness and personal responsibility.
The fundamental principle is "Leadership is hearing the calls for help." When we truly listen to others' needs, we gain crucial awareness about our environment, allowing us to adjust strategically. But there's a challenging truth at the heart of this approach: external conflicts mirror internal ones. When conflict exists in your team, look inward to identify your own internal conflicts first. Attempting to solve others' problems without addressing your own makes you part of the problem rather than the solution.
Our current economic turbulence isn't merely a temporary setback but a correction in a natural cycle we've ignored while pursuing perpetual growth. Rather than desperately holding on during downturns, we should use these periods like low tide—when all the rocks and wrecks beneath the waterline become visible—to clean up what isn't working. This transforms recessions from survival periods into opportunities for meaningful reorganization and preparation for the next positive cycle.
Most provocatively, Jeff challenges the fundamental business premise of competition. Competition stems from scarcity thinking and inevitably destroys relationships. The alternative? Embracing partnership, valuing diverse perspectives, and fostering mutuality between companies. This shift from competition to cooperation represents the future of business—not just growing profits, but growing awareness, consciousness, and sustainable relationships that benefit everyone involved.
Questions and comments welcome below! Remember, we're better in this together.
Listen to the Leadership Espresso Podcast:
https://open.spotify.com/show/4OT3BYzDHMafETOMgFEor3
View the Leadership Espresso Podcast:
https://www.youtube.com/@Stefangoetz_Global_Leadership/videos
Connect with Stefan Götz on LinkedIn:
https://www.linkedin.com/in/stefangoetz/
Check out Stefan's Executive and Team Coaching
https://www.stefan-goetz.com/
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
So welcome to our Inspiration Coffee Break this
morning with Jeff Allen.
And the burning question is howdoes the new way in business
look like during and afterCorona?
So, hi, jeff, it's fantastichaving you on this podcast.
Yeah, great being here.
(00:21):
So really thank you for that.
And Jeff is just not.
He runs a number of companiesin the UK and what is even more
important is he's been a captainof container vessels huge
vessels so he knows how tonavigate in stormy conditions,
(00:46):
and stormy conditions, I guess,is what we have right now.
And the major question that wewant to circle around today is
Jeff says leadership is hearingthe calls for help.
Now, jeff, what does that meanand what kind of help do we need
to address these days?
Speaker 2 (01:05):
You know, one of the main things about getting into
leadership is listening.
You know, when people actuallytypically have a problem in
their business or in theirrelationship at one level, it's
because they're not listening.
So when you move intoleadership, it's like you need
to move into the center of thewheel.
And when you get to the centerof the wheel and when you get to
(01:25):
the center of the wheel, whileyou're connected to everybody,
you're not working hard.
You know you you're in thecenter, you connected, but
you're steady, you're calm andin that place you listen and
it's kind of like you listen forpeople and and answer their
calls for help, because so manypeople want help.
(01:46):
And the thing is is yourecognize that as you go and
help them in whatever they'refacing, what it does is gives
you real awareness about what'sgoing on for you in your
environment and you get all theinputs you need so that you can
adjust, so that you can positionyourself about what's going to
(02:11):
happen.
Speaker 1 (02:12):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (02:13):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (02:15):
I think that is a.
The picture that you're sharingis what I call the mirroring
picture, right?
So whatever happens in youroutside world, it's a reflection
of your inside world.
So can you explain why this isalso true for business?
Speaker 2 (02:34):
Oh, absolutely, you know.
I mean in business, before youknow you've had the sort of the
so-called old-fashioned leader,you know, and when the going
gets tough, the tough get going,all that kind of thing, but but
that's, that's really.
Old-fashioned leadership isabout the willingness to share
your gifts, to share yourqualities with other people, and
(02:58):
so that's the important thingabout being willing to make a
difference.
And in business it's likeseeing you can't be in a
business and someone has aproblem and you don't have a
problem.
I mean you at some point.
Yes, it looks like they have aproblem, but someone I have a
(03:19):
problem too, too, jeff.
Speaker 1 (03:22):
I find to myself, I acknowledge that idea and I find
it true to be in my life andmany lives.
However, I find it incrediblydifficult.
I mean, the concept behind itis accountability, right?
Yeah, I find it incrediblydifficult to convey that idea
(03:43):
that, whatever happens around mewithin my team, if there's a
conflict, for instance, right,that there's also a conflict
inside of me.
You know, people go as far as Igo.
Yeah, give me a nice tool howto fix that, or I send them to a
mediation or whatever, or youcoach them, but it's not about
me, so me?
(04:04):
So how can we build the bridgefor everybody to understand that
power, that it has and thedifference of that to be like
I'm a victim or I have to sufferthat now?
So how can we build this bridge?
Speaker 2 (04:23):
Well, the first thing mainly, especially in
leadership is to takeresponsibility, which means you
don't have to carry people, butyou need to have the ability to
respond to everybody in everysituation.
However, if you want to becomean effective problem solver,
you've got to start withyourself.
Solver, you've got to startwith yourself.
(04:47):
If you're going out theretrying to fix everyone else's
problems and you're unwilling tolook and examine your problems,
you're going to become part ofthe problem, not part of the
solution.
And so if there's somethingoutside of you a couple of
people in conflict you need tolook at yourself about where
you're in conflict with otherpeople, because if you're
unwilling to do that, then youwant to go to them and tell them
(05:09):
to stop the conflict.
Yet you've been unwilling to dothe same thing for yourself.
So now that will result in youbeing ineffective and, more than
likely, making the conflictworse.
You've got to start withyourself.
It all begins with me.
That is leadership, that'saccountability, that's
responsibility.
Speaker 1 (05:30):
So that sounds gosh.
Speaker 2 (05:32):
That sounds actually like a lot of work, because it
becomes like you're aconstruction place but you see
that the other part that you'vegot to get and this is really
important now in business,because the future is not
looking so rosy as it used to bebecause we we didn't look
(05:53):
towards the process, the natural, how naturally things unfold we
were going for growth, growth,growth, and then suddenly there
has to be this correction whichall of a sudden now it's like
okay, this is the other side ofthat cycle and we need to work
more with the cycles, we need towork more with nature, we need
to work more with how thingsunfold and to be unaware of that
(06:19):
, you just keep like full steamahead.
It's only a matter of timebefore you sink full steam ahead
.
Speaker 1 (06:27):
It's only a matter of time before you sink.
So the picture you're sharingis like one that where you go
like a full steam ahead, you'refocused and this is at least it
has some advantages towards.
You know, if you're a resultdriven, that's the shortest way
to your target.
But I, I guess we are shown atthis stage that maybe your
(06:52):
target wasn't the right one, somaybe we can.
This unfolding thing, you know,when you talk about unfolding,
you know, in my picture aboutunfolding is maybe in some other
areas to unfold someone orsomething.
But I mean, what is thatunfolding?
(07:17):
Or where should my awareness go?
Or why is awareness importantin the first place?
Speaker 2 (07:23):
Well, awareness makes you see what's going to happen.
You have awareness, you getgood at leadership.
It'll lead you into true vision, which will give you you know
what's going to happen before ithappens.
When you into true vision whichwill give you you know what's
going to happen before ithappens.
When you have no awareness,what takes you out?
You never see it coming, andthat's kind of what's happened
now.
(07:44):
You know that started was alittle thing and it took us out,
and now we've got a wholenother racist thing.
It's like some huge forces atplay here and and it would be
great if you were aligned withthose forces instead of you
marching against them.
Speaker 1 (08:01):
This sounds a little bit like having the instincts,
or is it a capacity that I cantrain?
I mean, it sounds like okay, oreither I have it or I don't
have it.
But it's not true.
It's something that we candevelop, right absolutely, and
(08:25):
you start valuing it.
Speaker 2 (08:27):
So, when you start valuing it, when you start
listening and you startrecognizing, oh you know, as, as
the team becomes stronger, whatit does is makes you more
effective, makes you moreefficient and makes you more
immune to, you know, bigdisasters out there, or really
bankruptcy and big things goingwrong.
(08:49):
See, now typically is a time ofwe're going to go into a
recession of one kind or another, of we're going to go into a
recession of one kind or another, and the recession is a time
when you can spend it wisely andreally look at all the things
that aren't working, becauseit's like the tide has gone out.
You can see all the rocks andthe wrecks underneath the
waterline a life image and itgives you an opportunity to
(09:12):
clean, clean up.
So when the next cycle comeswhich will come then you'll be
in a good position to take fulladvantage of the next cycle.
If, on the other hand, you justtry and hang on for grim life
and we'll get through this andjust cut the spending and keep
(09:33):
your head down and we're goingto get there, then when the next
cycle starts, you're not goingto be in a good position to take
advantage of it, because you'llstill be carrying all the old
baggage.
Speaker 1 (09:45):
So my first kind of, or one of the takeaways from
this conversation is it's kindof time for homework doing, it's
time for preparing for the nextcycle.
It's like understanding thatbusiness works in cycles.
Actually, there was a novelprice, I guess, about this
(10:07):
already, that it happens incycles and we're starting with
this idea that up until now, ourbusiness models are geared
toward growth.
Yeah, and and I don't reallyagree it's not about growth, but
it's maybe about a differentkind of growth.
The growth is an insight growth.
It's.
(10:27):
It's a growth in, inConsciousness, it's a gross in
awareness.
It's a growth in.
And if you want to lead a team,a company, a ship, I guess you
first want to be able to leadyourself.
Yeah, a company, a ship, Iguess you first want to be able
to lead yourself.
Yeah, yeah.
So what is the homework that wehave or that we want to choose
(10:53):
to do now?
As to grow in ourselves first,and then comes the mirroring law
in that, because if we growinside, we can grow the quality
of our business and have itsustainable.
So what are the first stepstowards that?
Speaker 2 (11:06):
The first steps are really being willing to grow
your awareness about justbecoming more conscious about
what's really going on.
I mean, when people arecreating damage in the world or
in their businesses and thingslike that, you notice their
level of consciousness, on onehand, is really low and they're
(11:26):
just not aware of what they'redoing.
So what's important is to getthat awareness, that
self-awareness, and understandhow your actions are impacting
the people around you, how, what, what you're doing and what
you're saying, the real effectsit has on people, and then for
you to start listening to whatthey have to say.
(11:49):
And and you can see that sovividly in the world today,
especially in america, whereyou're just going they're not
listening, and so you're going,and so they're gonna have to
revisit all that stuff later ondown the road because they're
not listening.
Speaker 1 (12:06):
Jeff, how can we train and, to use the word,
unfold, or develop our capacityof listening?
Speaker 2 (12:15):
Just start valuing it , start valuing other people's
inputs, start valuing what otherpeople have to say and
recognize that it is throughthat team, it's through
everybody coming together inthat way, that we find the way
forward.
You just cannot do it byyourself.
I know, you know many of us,especially in business.
(12:37):
We achieved wherever we got toby being independent and doing
it our way, and you know, knowthe right way and you know you,
the best man for the job isobviously me and you know all
that sort of stuff.
It's like no, no, none of thatstuff is real.
It's just the furthest that'sgoing to get you is to be super
(12:57):
competitive and we need to getpast competition.
Speaker 1 (13:01):
Oh, that's an interesting topic now, because I
think most of us believe incompetition.
Most of us believe in if we arethe best version or if we
compete, we can win.
So what's so bad aboutcompetition and what is the
(13:23):
alternative and where will itlead us to?
Speaker 2 (13:26):
yeah, you, you're exactly right, it's about
winning.
In winning, you win, someoneelse loses, so it's that doesn't
work and the losers just getupset.
What we do is, when we compete,we confuse winning with success
.
Success is a much holer, betterthing, something you can share,
(13:50):
something you can achieve,something you can build on
Winning you just do it, someoneelse loses, and then on again.
You win again and really youdon't get anywhere.
And competition is all based ona belief in scarcity.
Therefore, competition alwaysdestroys relationships and your
(14:10):
personal relationships, yourbusiness relationships.
Competition will destroy themBecause sooner or later, you
play win-lose with them.
So what we need to do is getpast that, to start valuing
partnership, to start valuingother people's opinions and
ideas, and really learn aboutmutuality, cooperation, even not
(14:32):
only within our companies, butalso with our companies and
other companies.
And you can see that sometimesin some of the telecom
industries now, they realizethat they do much better when
they cooperate rather than whenthey compete.
Speaker 1 (14:49):
I guess we have to do a series of leadership in
business.
There's so much depth in there,we can't have it all in one go.
Yeah, yeah, jeff, for now, uh,I'm very, very grateful.
Thank you for uh, for uhsharing these insights.
And they're only the tip of theiceberg.
(15:11):
There's a whole lot more todiscover.
Uh, and and uh and just uh,we'll set up another one.
Speaker 2 (15:25):
I, we'll set up another one.
I guess I'd love to do it, I'dlove to share, and you know we
live in interesting times andreally there's got to be a
better way than there was before.
We can't go back to that.
We've got to find that betterway.
Speaker 1 (15:33):
Absolutely, and I think we address this to all the
leaders that have the courage.
Courage comes from the curl,the fringe, you know, the heart
or the Latin, and I guess, or atleast I think it was like, but
anyway.
So questions and comments asusual below, because, never
forget, we are better in thistogether.
(15:55):
As Jeff said, it's aboutpartnership, mutuality, equality
, cooperation.
So we co-create that futuretogether.
So until next time, be inspired.
What else?
Yeah, thank you.
So welcome to our Inspiration Coffee Break this
morning with Jeff Allen.
And the burning question is howdoes the new way in business
look like during and afterCorona?
So, hi, jeff, it's fantastichaving you on this podcast.
Yeah, great being here.
(00:21):
So really thank you for that.
And Jeff is just not.
He runs a number of companiesin the UK and what is even more
important is he's been a captainof container vessels huge
vessels so he knows how tonavigate in stormy conditions,
(00:46):
and stormy conditions, I guess,is what we have right now.
And the major question that wewant to circle around today is
Jeff says leadership is hearingthe calls for help.
Now, jeff, what does that meanand what kind of help do we need
to address these days?
Speaker 2 (01:05):
You know, one of the main things about getting into
leadership is listening.
You know, when people actuallytypically have a problem in
their business or in theirrelationship at one level, it's
because they're not listening.
So when you move intoleadership, it's like you need
to move into the center of thewheel.
And when you get to the centerof the wheel and when you get to
(01:25):
the center of the wheel, whileyou're connected to everybody,
you're not working hard.
You know you you're in thecenter, you connected, but
you're steady, you're calm andin that place you listen and
it's kind of like you listen forpeople and and answer their
calls for help, because so manypeople want help.
(01:46):
And the thing is is yourecognize that as you go and
help them in whatever they'refacing, what it does is gives
you real awareness about what'sgoing on for you in your
environment and you get all theinputs you need so that you can
adjust, so that you can positionyourself about what's going to
(02:11):
happen.
Speaker 1 (02:12):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (02:13):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (02:15):
I think that is a.
The picture that you're sharingis what I call the mirroring
picture, right?
So whatever happens in youroutside world, it's a reflection
of your inside world.
So can you explain why this isalso true for business?
Speaker 2 (02:34):
Oh, absolutely, you know.
I mean in business, before youknow you've had the sort of the
so-called old-fashioned leader,you know, and when the going
gets tough, the tough get going,all that kind of thing, but but
that's, that's really.
Old-fashioned leadership isabout the willingness to share
your gifts, to share yourqualities with other people, and
(02:58):
so that's the important thingabout being willing to make a
difference.
And in business it's likeseeing you can't be in a
business and someone has aproblem and you don't have a
problem.
I mean you at some point.
Yes, it looks like they have aproblem, but someone I have a
(03:19):
problem too, too, jeff.
Speaker 1 (03:22):
I find to myself, I acknowledge that idea and I find
it true to be in my life andmany lives.
However, I find it incrediblydifficult.
I mean, the concept behind itis accountability, right?
Yeah, I find it incrediblydifficult to convey that idea
(03:43):
that, whatever happens around mewithin my team, if there's a
conflict, for instance, right,that there's also a conflict
inside of me.
You know, people go as far as Igo.
Yeah, give me a nice tool howto fix that, or I send them to a
mediation or whatever, or youcoach them, but it's not about
me, so me?
(04:04):
So how can we build the bridgefor everybody to understand that
power, that it has and thedifference of that to be like
I'm a victim or I have to sufferthat now?
So how can we build this bridge?
Speaker 2 (04:23):
Well, the first thing mainly, especially in
leadership is to takeresponsibility, which means you
don't have to carry people, butyou need to have the ability to
respond to everybody in everysituation.
However, if you want to becomean effective problem solver,
you've got to start withyourself.
Solver, you've got to startwith yourself.
(04:47):
If you're going out theretrying to fix everyone else's
problems and you're unwilling tolook and examine your problems,
you're going to become part ofthe problem, not part of the
solution.
And so if there's somethingoutside of you a couple of
people in conflict you need tolook at yourself about where
you're in conflict with otherpeople, because if you're
unwilling to do that, then youwant to go to them and tell them
(05:09):
to stop the conflict.
Yet you've been unwilling to dothe same thing for yourself.
So now that will result in youbeing ineffective and, more than
likely, making the conflictworse.
You've got to start withyourself.
It all begins with me.
That is leadership, that'saccountability, that's
responsibility.
Speaker 1 (05:30):
So that sounds gosh.
Speaker 2 (05:32):
That sounds actually like a lot of work, because it
becomes like you're aconstruction place but you see
that the other part that you'vegot to get and this is really
important now in business,because the future is not
looking so rosy as it used to bebecause we we didn't look
(05:53):
towards the process, the natural, how naturally things unfold we
were going for growth, growth,growth, and then suddenly there
has to be this correction whichall of a sudden now it's like
okay, this is the other side ofthat cycle and we need to work
more with the cycles, we need towork more with nature, we need
to work more with how thingsunfold and to be unaware of that
(06:19):
, you just keep like full steamahead.
It's only a matter of timebefore you sink full steam ahead
.
Speaker 1 (06:27):
It's only a matter of time before you sink.
So the picture you're sharingis like one that where you go
like a full steam ahead, you'refocused and this is at least it
has some advantages towards.
You know, if you're a resultdriven, that's the shortest way
to your target.
But I, I guess we are shown atthis stage that maybe your
(06:52):
target wasn't the right one, somaybe we can.
This unfolding thing, you know,when you talk about unfolding,
you know, in my picture aboutunfolding is maybe in some other
areas to unfold someone orsomething.
But I mean, what is thatunfolding?
(07:17):
Or where should my awareness go?
Or why is awareness importantin the first place?
Speaker 2 (07:23):
Well, awareness makes you see what's going to happen.
You have awareness, you getgood at leadership.
It'll lead you into true vision, which will give you you know
what's going to happen before ithappens.
When you into true vision whichwill give you you know what's
going to happen before ithappens.
When you have no awareness,what takes you out?
You never see it coming, andthat's kind of what's happened
now.
(07:44):
You know that started was alittle thing and it took us out,
and now we've got a wholenother racist thing.
It's like some huge forces atplay here and and it would be
great if you were aligned withthose forces instead of you
marching against them.
Speaker 1 (08:01):
This sounds a little bit like having the instincts,
or is it a capacity that I cantrain?
I mean, it sounds like okay, oreither I have it or I don't
have it.
But it's not true.
It's something that we candevelop, right absolutely, and
(08:25):
you start valuing it.
Speaker 2 (08:27):
So, when you start valuing it, when you start
listening and you startrecognizing, oh you know, as, as
the team becomes stronger, whatit does is makes you more
effective, makes you moreefficient and makes you more
immune to, you know, bigdisasters out there, or really
bankruptcy and big things goingwrong.
(08:49):
See, now typically is a time ofwe're going to go into a
recession of one kind or another, of we're going to go into a
recession of one kind or another, and the recession is a time
when you can spend it wisely andreally look at all the things
that aren't working, becauseit's like the tide has gone out.
You can see all the rocks andthe wrecks underneath the
waterline a life image and itgives you an opportunity to
(09:12):
clean, clean up.
So when the next cycle comeswhich will come then you'll be
in a good position to take fulladvantage of the next cycle.
If, on the other hand, you justtry and hang on for grim life
and we'll get through this andjust cut the spending and keep
(09:33):
your head down and we're goingto get there, then when the next
cycle starts, you're not goingto be in a good position to take
advantage of it, because you'llstill be carrying all the old
baggage.
Speaker 1 (09:45):
So my first kind of, or one of the takeaways from
this conversation is it's kindof time for homework doing, it's
time for preparing for the nextcycle.
It's like understanding thatbusiness works in cycles.
Actually, there was a novelprice, I guess, about this
(10:07):
already, that it happens incycles and we're starting with
this idea that up until now, ourbusiness models are geared
toward growth.
Yeah, and and I don't reallyagree it's not about growth, but
it's maybe about a differentkind of growth.
The growth is an insight growth.
It's.
(10:27):
It's a growth in, inConsciousness, it's a gross in
awareness.
It's a growth in.
And if you want to lead a team,a company, a ship, I guess you
first want to be able to leadyourself.
Yeah, a company, a ship, Iguess you first want to be able
to lead yourself.
Yeah, yeah.
So what is the homework that wehave or that we want to choose
(10:53):
to do now?
As to grow in ourselves first,and then comes the mirroring law
in that, because if we growinside, we can grow the quality
of our business and have itsustainable.
So what are the first stepstowards that?
Speaker 2 (11:06):
The first steps are really being willing to grow
your awareness about justbecoming more conscious about
what's really going on.
I mean, when people arecreating damage in the world or
in their businesses and thingslike that, you notice their
level of consciousness, on onehand, is really low and they're
(11:26):
just not aware of what they'redoing.
So what's important is to getthat awareness, that
self-awareness, and understandhow your actions are impacting
the people around you, how, what, what you're doing and what
you're saying, the real effectsit has on people, and then for
you to start listening to whatthey have to say.
(11:49):
And and you can see that sovividly in the world today,
especially in america, whereyou're just going they're not
listening, and so you're going,and so they're gonna have to
revisit all that stuff later ondown the road because they're
not listening.
Speaker 1 (12:06):
Jeff, how can we train and, to use the word,
unfold, or develop our capacityof listening?
Speaker 2 (12:15):
Just start valuing it , start valuing other people's
inputs, start valuing what otherpeople have to say and
recognize that it is throughthat team, it's through
everybody coming together inthat way, that we find the way
forward.
You just cannot do it byyourself.
I know, you know many of us,especially in business.
(12:37):
We achieved wherever we got toby being independent and doing
it our way, and you know, knowthe right way and you know you,
the best man for the job isobviously me and you know all
that sort of stuff.
It's like no, no, none of thatstuff is real.
It's just the furthest that'sgoing to get you is to be super
(12:57):
competitive and we need to getpast competition.
Speaker 1 (13:01):
Oh, that's an interesting topic now, because I
think most of us believe incompetition.
Most of us believe in if we arethe best version or if we
compete, we can win.
So what's so bad aboutcompetition and what is the
(13:23):
alternative and where will itlead us to?
Speaker 2 (13:26):
yeah, you, you're exactly right, it's about
winning.
In winning, you win, someoneelse loses, so it's that doesn't
work and the losers just getupset.
What we do is, when we compete,we confuse winning with success
.
Success is a much holer, betterthing, something you can share,
(13:50):
something you can achieve,something you can build on
Winning you just do it, someoneelse loses, and then on again.
You win again and really youdon't get anywhere.
And competition is all based ona belief in scarcity.
Therefore, competition alwaysdestroys relationships and your
(14:10):
personal relationships, yourbusiness relationships.
Competition will destroy themBecause sooner or later, you
play win-lose with them.
So what we need to do is getpast that, to start valuing
partnership, to start valuingother people's opinions and
ideas, and really learn aboutmutuality, cooperation, even not
(14:32):
only within our companies, butalso with our companies and
other companies.
And you can see that sometimesin some of the telecom
industries now, they realizethat they do much better when
they cooperate rather than whenthey compete.
Speaker 1 (14:49):
I guess we have to do a series of leadership in
business.
There's so much depth in there,we can't have it all in one go.
Yeah, yeah, jeff, for now, uh,I'm very, very grateful.
Thank you for uh, for uhsharing these insights.
And they're only the tip of theiceberg.
(15:11):
There's a whole lot more todiscover.
Uh, and and uh and just uh,we'll set up another one.
Speaker 2 (15:25):
I, we'll set up another one.
I guess I'd love to do it, I'dlove to share, and you know we
live in interesting times andreally there's got to be a
better way than there was before.
We can't go back to that.
We've got to find that betterway.
Speaker 1 (15:33):
Absolutely, and I think we address this to all the
leaders that have the courage.
Courage comes from the curl,the fringe, you know, the heart
or the Latin, and I guess, or atleast I think it was like, but
anyway.
So questions and comments asusual below, because, never
forget, we are better in thistogether.
(15:55):
As Jeff said, it's aboutpartnership, mutuality, equality
, cooperation.
So we co-create that futuretogether.
So until next time, be inspired.
What else?
Yeah, thank you.
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