What if the greatest crisis of our lifetime is actually the catalyst for the transformation we've been waiting for? Dr. Chuck Spezzano, author of over 50 psychology books and global business leader, reveals how COVID-19 presents a pivotal moment for visionary leadership.
"When a big wave is coming, turn your ship into the wave instead of getting hit broadside," Dr. Spezzano advises. This powerful metaphor frames our conversation about the fundamental shift in business – moving from competitive independence to cooperative interdependence. While many leaders respond to crises by doubling down on old strategies, true visionaries recognize this moment as an opportunity to birth something entirely new.
The path forward requires more than strategic planning. Dr. Spezzano shares a practical meditation technique for clearing mental clutter to access genuine vision and creative solutions. "In about 15 to 20 minutes, your mind will be like this quiet, placid lake, and then that's when you ask: let my purpose be given, let the way forward be shown."
Surprisingly, personal relationships emerge as crucial to business success. "At the heart of every problem you have, there's a relationship problem," Dr. Spezzano reveals, citing a study showing Fortune 500 CEOs share three traits: good personal partnerships, belief in a higher power, and time for regeneration. This understanding extends beyond personal relationships to how businesses relate to communities and the world.
Throughout our conversation, Dr. Spezzano interweaves powerful stories – from the Japanese CEO whose company performed best when he stepped away, to the Taiwanese businessman who refused to accept "impossible" limitations during a crisis. These examples illuminate what's possible when leaders embrace partnership, generosity, and unwavering confidence that "there must be a better way."
Join us for this profound exploration of leadership during global upheaval. Subscribe to Leadership Espresso for more conversations that challenge conventional thinking and inspire transformative action.
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https://www.youtube.com/@Stefangoetz_Global_Leadership/videos
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https://www.linkedin.com/in/stefangoetz/
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https://www.stefan-goetz.com/
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Welcome everyone to another episode of the
Leadership Espresso podcast, andthis time I'm actually thrilled
to have a mastermind on theshow.
It is Dr Chuck Spitzano.
He is author of over 50 booksaround psychology and a deep
(00:22):
understanding how the human mindand brain and the heart works
and, above all, he runs a hugebusiness, a global business, on
things that really truly matterto everyone out there.
He met billionaires, so he isthe person to talk about the
(00:43):
current situation of COVID-19.
And thank you, chuck, fortaking your time and sharing
your energy, your wisdom, whichis a vast wisdom, and a big hi
to Hawaii.
Speaker 2 (01:01):
Aloha it's good to be here with you.
Speaker 1 (01:06):
Yes, I really, really appreciate that and I think
from this podcast, people allover the place in business can
take away a lot.
So I'm promising a lot andlet's start right away your
first book, or any of the books,somehow, of the books that
somehow start with what happenswhen shit happens, or what do we
(01:28):
do, or you know, and we are insuch a situation right now.
So, chuck, where are we andwhere we do we go from here?
Speaker 2 (01:41):
so.
So the first thing to know isthat this is a big wave coming
at us and a lot of businessesare right on the edge.
And it's important, when a bigwave is coming, to turn your
ship into the wave instead ofget getting hit broadside.
(02:02):
And so it's like having thatpositive attitude about going
through this, trusting yourself,having confidence in yourself
and the unfolding, and giving itall right into the heart of
this wave that's coming at us.
Jung once said the only way toget through something is to go
(02:25):
right into it, otherwise itholds on to us.
And you know, I've beenpredicting for years that what
our generation came for was tomove from exaggerated
independent, from exaggeratedindependent.
(02:48):
This is a whole new way ofdoing business, because
basically, many companies arejust built for success and money
and things like this.
But now we need to take a lookat a ecologic point of view and
I don't mean just theenvironment, though I do mean
that also but to take intoaccount, you know, the, the
(03:10):
owners, the workers, thateveryone and to move to a
different form of business thatwould be interdependent.
Speaker 1 (03:21):
Now, yeah, you know, um, I take your metaphor with
the ship, you know, and that weput the ship into the right
direction and you know, it lookslike we have either COVID
behind us or we're in the midstof COVID COVID.
(03:50):
So the metaphor with the shipis most captains, most CEOs,
would believe they put theirship in the right direction, and
yet we all know that's not true, because we wouldn't have this
crisis if it was in the rightdirection.
Speaker 2 (04:00):
No, it's like this crisis is something that,
collectively, we have come todeal with.
If we made a collective promiseto get to partnership and we've
been lagging sadly behind, thenthis is actually a way of
forcing us to see a differentway of doing things, to do
(04:22):
things from a cooperative pointof view rather than just
competitive point of view, andthat's a major shift, because we
all grew up competitively, evenfrom our very first families,
so it's like how to graduate,and so when you have a
collective issue that containsthe whole earth, it's like now
(04:44):
it's time to really reflect onwhat's going to work.
Stefan, if I asked you, what ifCOVID is here at the same level
or worse, in a year?
What happens to business?
Speaker 1 (05:00):
I guess in a year's time, if we have a second wave,
like we did in Germany.
We had a lockdown for a coupleof months and it was devastating
to most businesses, but havinga second lockdown, this would be
the end.
I mean serious.
Speaker 2 (05:21):
In the States they say we haven't even finished the
first.
Speaker 1 (05:29):
Yeah, you have a different president, yes, we do.
Speaker 2 (05:31):
Sorry for that.
Yeah, you know, it's like he's.
He seems to be really gung hofor business and business
leaders, but the problem is he'strying to do it the old way and
that's not going to work.
What happens if, covid, in twoyears, we have a?
Speaker 1 (05:55):
global breakdown and wars are going to start.
Civil wars will start.
I don't want to even thinkabout it.
Speaker 2 (06:06):
Yeah, how about three years?
Speaker 1 (06:10):
Big wars are starting .
Many people are losing.
Speaker 2 (06:16):
So let me tell you a quick story.
I had a promoter of mine inLondon about 20 years ago
actually 30 years ago and shealso brought in someone who
would hypnotize a whole group ofpeople and take them into the
future.
And 250 years from now, theheadlines were catastrophic,
(06:40):
almost cataclysmic, almostcataclysmic, and the earth was
just disintegrating.
And so I said you know, thiscan all change.
Even though everybody wascoming back with the same
headlines, I said, just, youknow, have him do some healing.
You know, have him do some.
He's a, you know, he's a changeagent.
(07:02):
But it's not all dark.
So he went, so she went in,suggested that to him.
He did a simple healingexercise in the present for the
future.
Then he hypnotized people, tookthem into the future and all
the headlines had changed.
They were all positiveheadlines.
(07:24):
They were all positiveheadlines.
So we're working now, and we'reworking not only for ourselves,
but we're working for everyone,especially as business leaders.
Absolutely true.
Speaker 1 (07:37):
And how do, how do we make this wave, this movement,
this change, sustainable?
I don't if most people you talkto they say yeah, yeah, I
understand we need to shift, andthen the next day they do
exactly the opposite.
So how do we?
Is this the political leaders?
(07:58):
Is this the bottom up change?
Is this a grassroots movement?
Or I mean, everybody knows it'sgoing to be catastrophic if we
don't change.
Speaker 2 (08:08):
So, yes, and as leaders, as business leaders,
we're called to be change agents.
But if we're unwilling tochange ourselves and change the
way we think, change ourrelationships, then our ship is
sunk.
The way we think, change ourrelationships, then our ship is
(08:29):
sunk.
20 years ago, I predicted thatif the world is to be saved in
this century, it will be donethrough business.
So we have a very importantpart, and I predicted that in 40
years so 20 more years theworld would be run not by
national governments, but andnot the huge, you know
(08:53):
businesses that are spanning theearth and can be more
repressive even than ourgovernments.
So we need, you know, visionarybusiness business.
Um I, the next week I talked toa friend of mine who was in a
think tank, a real prestigiousthink tank in london, and she
said what we got is thatbusiness will be running things
(09:15):
in 30 years.
So that's 10 more years.
So it's time to either getready and be that visionary
change agent or change ourunderwear, because it's going to
be one or the other.
Yeah, so the first step yeah.
The first step is letting go ofwhat we're holding on to, the
(09:38):
old way of thinking how ourbusinesses used to be six months
ago.
It's a much different world andif we don't let go, we'll be
holding on, and it's like tryingto hold sand in your hands.
The tighter you grab it, themore it runs out.
Speaker 1 (09:55):
I fully agree, chuck, and my perception about the
situation is that most businessleaders at least in Germany they
haven't learned the lesson,because what they do now is,
every year before they just putan extra 10% in their excel
sheet, in 10% by revenue.
(10:16):
That was their strategicplanning.
Now this year, I thought theCEOs would rethink the business
model entirely.
No, what they do is rescaling.
They double down by 10%.
They do the same exercise, theyjust double down.
So how can we inspire?
Speaker 2 (10:39):
what does it take that people have the vision or
the courage or whatever isnecessary to say okay, I'll stop
the reflex of doing things thesame way and we change, I change
so if we're willing to let goof how business has been and
(11:04):
open our mind, then what happensis new ways of thinking, new
ways even for the transition togo from how we are now to how
it's going to be.
One thing that seems for sureis that it's going to need a lot
more cooperation.
(11:25):
Cooperation, true.
You know, one of the foundingfathers of the US, when there
was the American Revolution,said you know, if we don't hang
together, we'll certainly hangseparately, we'll hang apart.
Speaker 1 (11:43):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (11:46):
And this is what's called for.
It's like how to change howit's been to what it's going to
be, that is, that deals with thepeople that work for us, that
deals with our community.
That actually is basicallyworking together with our
(12:10):
communities and workingworldwide.
You know, contribute locally,think globally, but people, if
you're holding on to the oldways, it's like you could just
let that go.
You could just let that go.
It's like, from what I've seenand this whole sociological,
(12:37):
this whole social shift that'sgoing on, it's like if we don't
go with the wave and we couldsurf, in Hawaii we say the waves
never stop, so you might aswell learn to surf.
Of course.
In Hawaii we say the wavesnever stop, so you might as well
learn to surf.
Of course the surfers also sayif it swells, ride it.
That's the way a truebusinessman thinks.
(13:00):
Right, you know, just.
So.
It's what this is.
It will be something that thewhole community supports and the
worker will support to get tothe, so that the company would
be like a, a football team.
You know, everybody's workingtogether because our lives
(13:25):
depend on it, because our livesdepend on it, because our
children depend on it.
So how to go from a changeagent which is what, as leaders,
we're called to be to avisionary.
Speaker 1 (13:38):
Now, what it would mean is that you're willing to
go through emotional birthsyourself, and to realize, like,
if you woke up, stefan, in themiddle of the night and you were
giving birth to a baby, whatwould you think is happening to
you?
I'd be overwhelmed, right, I'dbe freaking out Right.
Speaker 2 (14:00):
All of a sudden there's all this pain and what's
happening to me?
You know?
You think somebody had come into change your transmission
probably more than that butactually it's a place where this
is a birth.
But if you don't see it as abirth, it's a death part of our
(14:23):
mind, the destructive part ofour mind, that the repressive
part of our mind might as wellgive up.
There's no hope.
But that's not the way of ourcreative mind, which is actually
in touch with heaven.
And heaven wants us to succeedand leap forward, and that's
(14:43):
what vision produces thepositive future, comes into the
present and shows the wayforward.
Speaker 1 (14:52):
So, Chuck, how can we inspire our leaders to open up
to that visionary state, to openup to what wants to emerge, to
what wants to unfold?
How do we get from here to theother place?
Speaker 2 (15:15):
there 20 years ago.
There there was amulti-billionaire who ran a
company in Japan and what hewould do?
He would come into work, hewould put the do not disturb
sign on his door, he would puthis feet up on his desk and he
would just kind of wait forinspiration, even vision.
(15:39):
And when his company did thebest is when he went away.
Now, he never wanted to go awaybecause he was the CEO.
He wanted to ride that horse,he wanted to ride that ship, and
but when he came to a workshopwas when his company did the
best, and it was that he tookhis hands off and he let his
(16:03):
team run the show and they werehappy to perform, they were
happy to do their best.
What he was doing, he washealing, he was changing.
That helped everything.
Speaker 1 (16:21):
I get the picture.
My point is someone who has nothad that experience.
It's like driving a car.
Tesla has built a car that'ssupposed to drive on its own,
but it doesn't yet.
And now, if you're the driverand somebody tells you, you just
(16:43):
put off your hands, the cardrives itself.
They go nuts, they go crazy.
So what are the steps that wecan build in between?
To inspire, to motivate, toseduce, to tell them listen, if
you had this experience once,you'd be never missing it again.
Speaker 2 (17:03):
Okay.
So there is one way, first ofall, to clear the mind and
imagine you didn't have thesethousand thoughts going on in
your mind, these worries, thesecares, and actually worry is a
place of self-attack.
Okay, so you're attackingyourself, you're attacking your
business, you're attacking thepeople you worry about.
(17:26):
Who would guess that?
Right, we think that's our job.
I'm the CEO.
I have to worry abouteverything.
Nine.
It's like what you're called foris to see the way forward in
the midst of this typhoon, andthe one way to do that is to sit
(17:46):
quietly.
It helps with your eyes closed,but it's not necessary.
And every thought that goesthrough your mind you go.
This thought reflects a goalthat's keeping me from my
purpose Now.
My purpose as a business leaderis vision.
It's seeing a positive wayforward.
This thought, and now you'llhave a thousand thoughts go
(18:08):
through your mind, but each timeyou say that, it grabs onto the
thought and it falls away.
Now the same thought may comeup, worse, because the worst
thought was already there.
So you just do it again.
In about 15 to 20 minutes, yourmind will be like this quiet,
placid lake, and then that'swhen you ask on this clean mind,
(18:34):
let my purpose be given, letthe way forward be shown.
It doesn't matter what thewords are, it's that desire to
find a better way for yourself,your family, your company, those
you love.
So it's like, and if you didthat every day, your mind would
(18:54):
get clear of the debris.
Because all of those thoughtsare from personalities and
they're saying to succeed, gothis way or that way or that way
.
And you know, you might havefive great ideas out of 100,
ideas that would look good butdon't work.
(19:14):
And that's where the world isnow.
And in some places, like someplaces in the US, it's much
further back.
But this is a place where wecan take responsibility.
We can clear our mind to seethe way forward and guess what
you know, to close your eyes anddeal with your own mind.
(19:36):
That can be anxious, but itgives you back your power.
And I'm sure there's hundredsof ways, but this is one way I
know to get your mind clear.
So the creative ideas thecreator created us creative.
So we have that heritage, wehave that within us.
(19:58):
And so, as we clear our mind,that great, the great truths
within us, the courage to give abirth.
I mean it's like, yeah, we men,you know we're soldiers, but
the women give birth.
Which one do you think isscarier?
giving birth yeah, would youwant to put a?
(20:21):
You take a uniform every day togiving birth.
Now, this is a birth time forthe planet and the more we as
CEOs, the more we give birth tothe future.
It's to ourselves actually tofind a better way, and it's
(20:41):
crucial that our relationshipsbe partnership with our wife or
husband at home, becauseotherwise, you know, that's our
ego.
Whether you're fighting withyour partner, because every
fight has a delay, every fightis based on fear and you could
(21:02):
just step beyond the fight andboth of you get the answer.
But most people, they want tobe right and being right just
hides where you feel wrong.
The more people act likethey're right we won't mention a
few presidents like that butthe more you act like you're
right, the more guilt you feeland that's completely self
(21:25):
punishing and self attacking andand all you get into is your
ego's way of doing things and itdoesn't want partnership.
So, get your families in order,get your relationships in order
, because let me tell youanother quick story.
Uh, it was five years ago inLondon doing a workshop that was
(21:51):
mostly business leaders and atthe end we had a panel of a
woman whose husband had.
There was the man they hadrunning the company was trying
to take over their company.
And then there was anotherwhose wife and her husband's
(22:12):
company was going bankrupt.
And then we had anotherbusiness leader who had just
lost 20 million pounds.
So as we got talking with thepanel, we found out that the
women's husbands had been baddogs.
They've been out having affairs, things like this, and it came
(22:37):
out that their wish was topunish their company in what
their husband really held dear,which was his company, his baby,
his thing.
And this was their way ofsaying you've been a bad dog.
And it was so evident toeverybody in the room that their
partner held the power and theyneeded that partnership to
(23:02):
succeed.
Now, within 10 minutes of theguy who'd lost 20 million pounds
, it's like he had pissed offevery woman in the room.
Speaker 1 (23:13):
I guess he would yeah .
Speaker 2 (23:14):
So you can guess Now, he wasn't having an affair, but
he was so adamant about his wayhe wasn't listening, he didn't
get it.
So it's like, and the womenwere just the way he was acting
and treating the women ingeneral.
(23:35):
They could imagine what hiswife was like was feeling.
Anyhow, he had lost 20 millionpounds.
He had lost 20 million pounds,so he got it.
He got his mistake and in thenext month he earned 30 million
pounds.
So your partnership is crucial.
Speaker 1 (24:04):
And that's where it starts.
Speaker 2 (24:14):
Now this could be good or bad news for some of the
CEOs, but it's time to clean upyour act.
So I worked with one of thewealthiest men in China about 30
years ago and he was in theworkshop and he was bragging
about, you know, he had his wife, his main wife, and they had a
couple other main wives, andthen he had hundreds of
girlfriends you know, all aroundChina.
(24:35):
And he was bragging because hecould afford it.
And I was smiling and I saidyou know, you're holding
yourself back because you'rewasting your creative energy.
And he goes what he says I haveone of the biggest companies in
China.
He said you know, everything'sreally successful.
(24:56):
What else could I want?
I said what you were meant foris to be one of the biggest
companies in the world.
You were meant for is to be oneof the biggest companies in the
world and by indulging yourself, you're wasting your energy.
Your sexual energy is yourcreative energy.
Your sexual energy can also bemiracle energy, but willful
(25:24):
people use it just for sex.
So it's realizing.
What's the difference when youknow I'm using that sexual
energy as a form of love ratherthan indulgence, and I can build
with my partner.
That's what happens withpartnership?
You build with it.
(25:45):
A surprising thing that I sharein my business workshops is the
importance of their partner.
30 years ago, they did aninterview with Fortune 500 CEOs
and all 500 said these threethings that were similar.
One is that they had a goodrelationship with their partner,
(26:08):
whether it was a husband or awife, they had a really good
relationship.
The second one was that theybelieved in a higher power.
Now, this higher power whateveryou call it is working for you
Too bad.
You're not listening.
You know heaven's, you knowwill.
(26:29):
For you is total happiness.
That means total success.
That means you get the answerand you lead the way.
So the next aspect is that it'stake time for yourself exercise,
sport, you know something.
That's that's kind of need timeto regenerate, cause if you're
(26:51):
going all all out all the time,then what happens is you, you
know you'll burn out and that'sdead zone.
That's not leadership.
That's dead zone.
That's not leadership.
So how to get to this place ofhaving this great relationship
(27:11):
and using your partnership?
Now, this is a time where a lotof partnerships not just
companies, but a lot ofpartnerships are at risk, but
there's ways to get through that.
It's like I've written 14 bookson relationships and it's how,
at the heart of every problemyou have, there's a relationship
problem.
(27:31):
You can't have a problemwithout a grievance.
So it's like being able tochange these things so that you
naturally step forward.
Change these things so that younaturally step forward.
You don't take your way to yourwillingness.
(27:56):
That brings the future to youand that cuts through this
tremendous fear that's shacklingthe world to.
Speaker 1 (28:03):
Oh my god, I keep losing things.
I'm really sensing a lot ofwisdom and I'm feeling very
peaceful.
So this typically means thatthere's a lot of truth in what
you say and I acknowledge thattremendously and I open up to.
(28:24):
How can I, can we be of help tothose leaders to get the
turning point?
But that's one way of puttingit.
But the other way I found andmaybe you can give your
observation on this up until acouple of months I thought, oh,
(28:45):
covid-19, that's the worst thatcould happen.
Then I found and I wascomplaining about it because the
revenue drops and blah, blah,blah.
But then I found isn't thatexactly the time I am born for?
Isn't that the truth?
I wanted to be here because Iwanted to shift.
(29:09):
I wanted to chip for myself,for my fire, for my family, for
my kids, for my company.
I wrote a book about it thenext wave in business.
You know I waited for all thattime.
So I was, I shifted and said no, it's not the worst time,
(29:29):
that's about the time.
So how can we help peoplerelate to shift the perspective
and and bringing back the cameraonto their own purpose, onto
their destiny, onto why are theyhere now?
Speaker 2 (29:53):
It's not by mistake, it's by design.
22 years ago, working deep inpeople's minds and getting into
the unconscious, the deepestpart of the mind that's not
spirit I found that we had allmade this promise.
Our generation had made thispromise that we would take the
world from this dissociatedindependence, competitive
(30:14):
independence, into partnershipand cooperation.
So that was something that Isaw 22 years ago.
Now, what can you do?
You can reinforce, learn how tostrengthen your relationships,
because your relationship, let'ssay, your wife, your
(30:34):
relationship with your wife,that's the closest person to you
and that will reflect the worsttraps, but some of the best
qualities also.
So it's how to strengthen that,how to strengthen with your
children.
Remember you know they willchoose the old age home you go
(30:55):
into.
So treat them well, be theirpartner, you know, have faith in
them.
And the second part is it'slike in this world, besides
strengthening partnership, it'sbeing generous, being
cooperative.
It's like what could you do togive?
In general, I got the messageto give to the whole world.
(31:19):
So once a month, I am doingjust a two-hour webinar, free
webinar for the world, so thatpeople can move forward, and
it's really kind for people inAsia, timing-wise, and Europe
Not so good for North America,but it's like.
(31:40):
You know, how could I be moregenerous?
Who are the people around methat need help?
Who are the people that need aword of encouragement to see a
better way?
One of the things that is nowaccelerating is I had set up a
coaching service for executives,so I'm in the planning stages
(32:03):
of providing that worldwide forfamilies, for couples, but for
business leaders, becausethey're the ones leading the way
.
A hundred years from now, it'llbe Aboriginal people who have
their relationships with natureand with all others, like in the
Haida tribe in North America,they end every prayer with all
(32:25):
my relations, meaning all people, all four-legged animals and
nature itself, as well as thecreator.
So they recognize that.
But we'll need that 80, 100years from now.
Right now, we need business tofind the way.
You're meant to be the, the,the, the cover, the cover girl
(32:48):
for for business.
Right now, stefan, you willingto be the cover girl?
Yeah, Okay.
How about, how about?
Are you willing to be thecenterfold, yeah, yeah, and to
go?
Here it is.
Let's go, let's lead the way,let's find the way together.
Speaker 1 (33:11):
Yeah, this is the path I really enjoy.
You know, maybe 20 years ago Ithought it was all about me, I
had to know the way, but thepath let's play together and
find out together.
This is the part where I feelall the pressure kind of
disappears and it's opening upand putting myself at service,
(33:37):
you know.
And well, jack, we could talkfor hours.
Speaker 2 (33:41):
I want to tell you one more story, and it's the
power of giving it all, becausewhen you give it all, you
receive it all, and that opensyour mind to business.
It's like you put it all on theline.
17 years ago I was doing abusiness workshop in Honolulu
and there was a fellow fromTaiwan and he talked about.
(34:05):
In the flood that happened inTaiwan, his whole company had
been flooded and his aluminumfurnaces had been flooded and
they stopped working.
He called all the experts inthe world and every expert said
you can never restart analuminum furnace.
(34:25):
They're gone.
You've lost it.
Now he had 300 people workingfor him, 300 families depending
on this company.
So he decided there has to be abetter way.
I will not settle for this.
This is not heaven's plan andit's not my true plan.
I want the answer.
(34:46):
And he stayed at his office andhe slept at his office and he
worked on this problem.
He worked in spite of what allthe experts says.
In 30 days he had a way torestart the furnaces that
everybody else had said wasimpossible.
Vision is going.
You know everybody says it'simpossible, but you know there
(35:10):
has to be a better way.
It's like they they said.
I remember when I was a kidthey said nobody would.
They scientifically provednobody would ever run a four
minute mile.
We have all kinds of peoplerunning the four minute mile.
We have all kinds of peoplerunning the four minute mile
it's like.
But you have that sense, thatthat rock hard confidence that
(35:31):
heaven is working with you.
So you know, if you know, ifyou knew who walked beside you,
you wouldn't be afraid.
And at the root of everyproblem there's a number of
roots.
But at the root of everyproblem there's a number of
roots.
But at the root of everyproblem there's fear.
So heal the fear and the nextstep comes to you.
And one way is to remember whowalks with you.
(35:53):
So it's like you know yourangel is always there.
I mean, psychology of vision isa transpersonal psychology.
So we work withnon-denominational spirituality.
Your angels trying to guide you, trying to protect you, trying
to help you.
You know, and every time youknow you listen to them, they
(36:14):
get another feather in theirwings.
Right now, most of your angelslook like supermarket chickens.
You know, give them a break.
You know they're.
They're really embarrassed.
So you know their their job isyou.
You know, listen up and andhumor.
You know it's, it's a time toreally get the joke absolutely
(36:39):
you know they're the.
You know the humor creates flowand it and it's really necessary
right now.
Speaker 1 (36:47):
Chuck, I really enjoyed every single minute of
our dialogue, of ourconversation.
I know there's so much wisdomand experience with that and I'm
so delighted that you open upso much on free webinars and
that you plan on this executivecoaching thing.
I can highly recommend anyone.
(37:07):
One hour of Chuck will beprobably worth one year of
business gained, even probablymore.
So I put it in the in thecomment section I put your
company website so people cancontact you.
And and you just nailed it tome in many ways, but one way I
(37:30):
always remember remember theremust be a better way, and I
truly believe a lot.
I and you know we have all ourgreater powers and higher minds
with us this time.
And thank you for being such agreat lighthouse all the years
(37:52):
I've known you now for 20 yearsor more.
So, as it is a LeadershipEspresso podcast, be inspired
everyone what else?
And comment, ask questions.
I make sure they get sent overor we do another episode on all
(38:14):
the questions that may arise.
And next time, Chuck, I talk toElizabeth McCourt about female
leadership.
She lives in New York and wewill continue the path that we
were actually taking becausebasically we were talking a lot
about feminine energy.
(38:35):
That's the receiving part, so Iwill continue that journey with
a little bit.
So thank you for today.
Really appreciate it.
You're such a great lighthouseto me and to lots of people out
there my pleasure to be here.
Speaker 2 (38:53):
Thank you, stefan.
Welcome everyone to another episode of the
Leadership Espresso podcast, andthis time I'm actually thrilled
to have a mastermind on theshow.
It is Dr Chuck Spitzano.
He is author of over 50 booksaround psychology and a deep
(00:22):
understanding how the human mindand brain and the heart works
and, above all, he runs a hugebusiness, a global business, on
things that really truly matterto everyone out there.
He met billionaires, so he isthe person to talk about the
(00:43):
current situation of COVID-19.
And thank you, chuck, fortaking your time and sharing
your energy, your wisdom, whichis a vast wisdom, and a big hi
to Hawaii.
Speaker 2 (01:01):
Aloha it's good to be here with you.
Speaker 1 (01:06):
Yes, I really, really appreciate that and I think
from this podcast, people allover the place in business can
take away a lot.
So I'm promising a lot andlet's start right away your
first book, or any of the books,somehow, of the books that
somehow start with what happenswhen shit happens, or what do we
(01:28):
do, or you know, and we are insuch a situation right now.
So, chuck, where are we andwhere we do we go from here?
Speaker 2 (01:41):
so.
So the first thing to know isthat this is a big wave coming
at us and a lot of businessesare right on the edge.
And it's important, when a bigwave is coming, to turn your
ship into the wave instead ofget getting hit broadside.
(02:02):
And so it's like having thatpositive attitude about going
through this, trusting yourself,having confidence in yourself
and the unfolding, and giving itall right into the heart of
this wave that's coming at us.
Jung once said the only way toget through something is to go
(02:25):
right into it, otherwise itholds on to us.
And you know, I've beenpredicting for years that what
our generation came for was tomove from exaggerated
independent, from exaggeratedindependent.
(02:48):
This is a whole new way ofdoing business, because
basically, many companies arejust built for success and money
and things like this.
But now we need to take a lookat a ecologic point of view and
I don't mean just theenvironment, though I do mean
that also but to take intoaccount, you know, the, the
(03:10):
owners, the workers, thateveryone and to move to a
different form of business thatwould be interdependent.
Speaker 1 (03:21):
Now, yeah, you know, um, I take your metaphor with
the ship, you know, and that weput the ship into the right
direction and you know, it lookslike we have either COVID
behind us or we're in the midstof COVID COVID.
(03:50):
So the metaphor with the shipis most captains, most CEOs,
would believe they put theirship in the right direction, and
yet we all know that's not true, because we wouldn't have this
crisis if it was in the rightdirection.
Speaker 2 (04:00):
No, it's like this crisis is something that,
collectively, we have come todeal with.
If we made a collective promiseto get to partnership and we've
been lagging sadly behind, thenthis is actually a way of
forcing us to see a differentway of doing things, to do
(04:22):
things from a cooperative pointof view rather than just
competitive point of view, andthat's a major shift, because we
all grew up competitively, evenfrom our very first families,
so it's like how to graduate,and so when you have a
collective issue that containsthe whole earth, it's like now
(04:44):
it's time to really reflect onwhat's going to work.
Stefan, if I asked you, what ifCOVID is here at the same level
or worse, in a year?
What happens to business?
Speaker 1 (05:00):
I guess in a year's time, if we have a second wave,
like we did in Germany.
We had a lockdown for a coupleof months and it was devastating
to most businesses, but havinga second lockdown, this would be
the end.
I mean serious.
Speaker 2 (05:21):
In the States they say we haven't even finished the
first.
Speaker 1 (05:29):
Yeah, you have a different president, yes, we do.
Speaker 2 (05:31):
Sorry for that.
Yeah, you know, it's like he's.
He seems to be really gung hofor business and business
leaders, but the problem is he'strying to do it the old way and
that's not going to work.
What happens if, covid, in twoyears, we have a?
Speaker 1 (05:55):
global breakdown and wars are going to start.
Civil wars will start.
I don't want to even thinkabout it.
Speaker 2 (06:06):
Yeah, how about three years?
Speaker 1 (06:10):
Big wars are starting .
Many people are losing.
Speaker 2 (06:16):
So let me tell you a quick story.
I had a promoter of mine inLondon about 20 years ago
actually 30 years ago and shealso brought in someone who
would hypnotize a whole group ofpeople and take them into the
future.
And 250 years from now, theheadlines were catastrophic,
(06:40):
almost cataclysmic, almostcataclysmic, and the earth was
just disintegrating.
And so I said you know, thiscan all change.
Even though everybody wascoming back with the same
headlines, I said, just, youknow, have him do some healing.
You know, have him do some.
He's a, you know, he's a changeagent.
(07:02):
But it's not all dark.
So he went, so she went in,suggested that to him.
He did a simple healingexercise in the present for the
future.
Then he hypnotized people, tookthem into the future and all
the headlines had changed.
They were all positiveheadlines.
(07:24):
They were all positiveheadlines.
So we're working now, and we'reworking not only for ourselves,
but we're working for everyone,especially as business leaders.
Absolutely true.
Speaker 1 (07:37):
And how do, how do we make this wave, this movement,
this change, sustainable?
I don't if most people you talkto they say yeah, yeah, I
understand we need to shift, andthen the next day they do
exactly the opposite.
So how do we?
Is this the political leaders?
(07:58):
Is this the bottom up change?
Is this a grassroots movement?
Or I mean, everybody knows it'sgoing to be catastrophic if we
don't change.
Speaker 2 (08:08):
So, yes, and as leaders, as business leaders,
we're called to be change agents.
But if we're unwilling tochange ourselves and change the
way we think, change ourrelationships, then our ship is
sunk.
The way we think, change ourrelationships, then our ship is
(08:29):
sunk.
20 years ago, I predicted thatif the world is to be saved in
this century, it will be donethrough business.
So we have a very importantpart, and I predicted that in 40
years so 20 more years theworld would be run not by
national governments, but andnot the huge, you know
(08:53):
businesses that are spanning theearth and can be more
repressive even than ourgovernments.
So we need, you know, visionarybusiness business.
Um I, the next week I talked toa friend of mine who was in a
think tank, a real prestigiousthink tank in london, and she
said what we got is thatbusiness will be running things
(09:15):
in 30 years.
So that's 10 more years.
So it's time to either getready and be that visionary
change agent or change ourunderwear, because it's going to
be one or the other.
Yeah, so the first step yeah.
The first step is letting go ofwhat we're holding on to, the
(09:38):
old way of thinking how ourbusinesses used to be six months
ago.
It's a much different world andif we don't let go, we'll be
holding on, and it's like tryingto hold sand in your hands.
The tighter you grab it, themore it runs out.
Speaker 1 (09:55):
I fully agree, chuck, and my perception about the
situation is that most businessleaders at least in Germany they
haven't learned the lesson,because what they do now is,
every year before they just putan extra 10% in their excel
sheet, in 10% by revenue.
(10:16):
That was their strategicplanning.
Now this year, I thought theCEOs would rethink the business
model entirely.
No, what they do is rescaling.
They double down by 10%.
They do the same exercise, theyjust double down.
So how can we inspire?
Speaker 2 (10:39):
what does it take that people have the vision or
the courage or whatever isnecessary to say okay, I'll stop
the reflex of doing things thesame way and we change, I change
so if we're willing to let goof how business has been and
(11:04):
open our mind, then what happensis new ways of thinking, new
ways even for the transition togo from how we are now to how
it's going to be.
One thing that seems for sureis that it's going to need a lot
more cooperation.
(11:25):
Cooperation, true.
You know, one of the foundingfathers of the US, when there
was the American Revolution,said you know, if we don't hang
together, we'll certainly hangseparately, we'll hang apart.
Speaker 1 (11:43):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (11:46):
And this is what's called for.
It's like how to change howit's been to what it's going to
be, that is, that deals with thepeople that work for us, that
deals with our community.
That actually is basicallyworking together with our
(12:10):
communities and workingworldwide.
You know, contribute locally,think globally, but people, if
you're holding on to the oldways, it's like you could just
let that go.
You could just let that go.
It's like, from what I've seenand this whole sociological,
(12:37):
this whole social shift that'sgoing on, it's like if we don't
go with the wave and we couldsurf, in Hawaii we say the waves
never stop, so you might aswell learn to surf.
Of course.
In Hawaii we say the wavesnever stop, so you might as well
learn to surf.
Of course the surfers also sayif it swells, ride it.
That's the way a truebusinessman thinks.
(13:00):
Right, you know, just.
So.
It's what this is.
It will be something that thewhole community supports and the
worker will support to get tothe, so that the company would
be like a, a football team.
You know, everybody's workingtogether because our lives
(13:25):
depend on it, because our livesdepend on it, because our
children depend on it.
So how to go from a changeagent which is what, as leaders,
we're called to be to avisionary.
Speaker 1 (13:38):
Now, what it would mean is that you're willing to
go through emotional birthsyourself, and to realize, like,
if you woke up, stefan, in themiddle of the night and you were
giving birth to a baby, whatwould you think is happening to
you?
I'd be overwhelmed, right, I'dbe freaking out Right.
Speaker 2 (14:00):
All of a sudden there's all this pain and what's
happening to me?
You know?
You think somebody had come into change your transmission
probably more than that butactually it's a place where this
is a birth.
But if you don't see it as abirth, it's a death part of our
(14:23):
mind, the destructive part ofour mind, that the repressive
part of our mind might as wellgive up.
There's no hope.
But that's not the way of ourcreative mind, which is actually
in touch with heaven.
And heaven wants us to succeedand leap forward, and that's
(14:43):
what vision produces thepositive future, comes into the
present and shows the wayforward.
Speaker 1 (14:52):
So, Chuck, how can we inspire our leaders to open up
to that visionary state, to openup to what wants to emerge, to
what wants to unfold?
How do we get from here to theother place?
Speaker 2 (15:15):
there 20 years ago.
There there was amulti-billionaire who ran a
company in Japan and what hewould do?
He would come into work, hewould put the do not disturb
sign on his door, he would puthis feet up on his desk and he
would just kind of wait forinspiration, even vision.
(15:39):
And when his company did thebest is when he went away.
Now, he never wanted to go awaybecause he was the CEO.
He wanted to ride that horse,he wanted to ride that ship, and
but when he came to a workshopwas when his company did the
best, and it was that he tookhis hands off and he let his
(16:03):
team run the show and they werehappy to perform, they were
happy to do their best.
What he was doing, he washealing, he was changing.
That helped everything.
Speaker 1 (16:21):
I get the picture.
My point is someone who has nothad that experience.
It's like driving a car.
Tesla has built a car that'ssupposed to drive on its own,
but it doesn't yet.
And now, if you're the driverand somebody tells you, you just
(16:43):
put off your hands, the cardrives itself.
They go nuts, they go crazy.
So what are the steps that wecan build in between?
To inspire, to motivate, toseduce, to tell them listen, if
you had this experience once,you'd be never missing it again.
Speaker 2 (17:03):
Okay.
So there is one way, first ofall, to clear the mind and
imagine you didn't have thesethousand thoughts going on in
your mind, these worries, thesecares, and actually worry is a
place of self-attack.
Okay, so you're attackingyourself, you're attacking your
business, you're attacking thepeople you worry about.
(17:26):
Who would guess that?
Right, we think that's our job.
I'm the CEO.
I have to worry abouteverything.
Nine.
It's like what you're called foris to see the way forward in
the midst of this typhoon, andthe one way to do that is to sit
(17:46):
quietly.
It helps with your eyes closed,but it's not necessary.
And every thought that goesthrough your mind you go.
This thought reflects a goalthat's keeping me from my
purpose Now.
My purpose as a business leaderis vision.
It's seeing a positive wayforward.
This thought, and now you'llhave a thousand thoughts go
(18:08):
through your mind, but each timeyou say that, it grabs onto the
thought and it falls away.
Now the same thought may comeup, worse, because the worst
thought was already there.
So you just do it again.
In about 15 to 20 minutes, yourmind will be like this quiet,
placid lake, and then that'swhen you ask on this clean mind,
(18:34):
let my purpose be given, letthe way forward be shown.
It doesn't matter what thewords are, it's that desire to
find a better way for yourself,your family, your company, those
you love.
So it's like, and if you didthat every day, your mind would
(18:54):
get clear of the debris.
Because all of those thoughtsare from personalities and
they're saying to succeed, gothis way or that way or that way
.
And you know, you might havefive great ideas out of 100,
ideas that would look good butdon't work.
(19:14):
And that's where the world isnow.
And in some places, like someplaces in the US, it's much
further back.
But this is a place where wecan take responsibility.
We can clear our mind to seethe way forward and guess what
you know, to close your eyes anddeal with your own mind.
(19:36):
That can be anxious, but itgives you back your power.
And I'm sure there's hundredsof ways, but this is one way I
know to get your mind clear.
So the creative ideas thecreator created us creative.
So we have that heritage, wehave that within us.
(19:58):
And so, as we clear our mind,that great, the great truths
within us, the courage to give abirth.
I mean it's like, yeah, we men,you know we're soldiers, but
the women give birth.
Which one do you think isscarier?
giving birth yeah, would youwant to put a?
(20:21):
You take a uniform every day togiving birth.
Now, this is a birth time forthe planet and the more we as
CEOs, the more we give birth tothe future.
It's to ourselves actually tofind a better way, and it's
(20:41):
crucial that our relationshipsbe partnership with our wife or
husband at home, becauseotherwise, you know, that's our
ego.
Whether you're fighting withyour partner, because every
fight has a delay, every fightis based on fear and you could
(21:02):
just step beyond the fight andboth of you get the answer.
But most people, they want tobe right and being right just
hides where you feel wrong.
The more people act likethey're right we won't mention a
few presidents like that butthe more you act like you're
right, the more guilt you feeland that's completely self
(21:25):
punishing and self attacking andand all you get into is your
ego's way of doing things and itdoesn't want partnership.
So, get your families in order,get your relationships in order
, because let me tell youanother quick story.
Uh, it was five years ago inLondon doing a workshop that was
(21:51):
mostly business leaders and atthe end we had a panel of a
woman whose husband had.
There was the man they hadrunning the company was trying
to take over their company.
And then there was anotherwhose wife and her husband's
(22:12):
company was going bankrupt.
And then we had anotherbusiness leader who had just
lost 20 million pounds.
So as we got talking with thepanel, we found out that the
women's husbands had been baddogs.
They've been out having affairs, things like this, and it came
(22:37):
out that their wish was topunish their company in what
their husband really held dear,which was his company, his baby,
his thing.
And this was their way ofsaying you've been a bad dog.
And it was so evident toeverybody in the room that their
partner held the power and theyneeded that partnership to
(23:02):
succeed.
Now, within 10 minutes of theguy who'd lost 20 million pounds
, it's like he had pissed offevery woman in the room.
Speaker 1 (23:13):
I guess he would yeah .
Speaker 2 (23:14):
So you can guess Now, he wasn't having an affair, but
he was so adamant about his wayhe wasn't listening, he didn't
get it.
So it's like, and the womenwere just the way he was acting
and treating the women ingeneral.
(23:35):
They could imagine what hiswife was like was feeling.
Anyhow, he had lost 20 millionpounds.
He had lost 20 million pounds,so he got it.
He got his mistake and in thenext month he earned 30 million
pounds.
So your partnership is crucial.
Speaker 1 (24:04):
And that's where it starts.
Speaker 2 (24:14):
Now this could be good or bad news for some of the
CEOs, but it's time to clean upyour act.
So I worked with one of thewealthiest men in China about 30
years ago and he was in theworkshop and he was bragging
about, you know, he had his wife, his main wife, and they had a
couple other main wives, andthen he had hundreds of
girlfriends you know, all aroundChina.
(24:35):
And he was bragging because hecould afford it.
And I was smiling and I saidyou know, you're holding
yourself back because you'rewasting your creative energy.
And he goes what he says I haveone of the biggest companies in
China.
He said you know, everything'sreally successful.
(24:56):
What else could I want?
I said what you were meant foris to be one of the biggest
companies in the world.
You were meant for is to be oneof the biggest companies in the
world and by indulging yourself, you're wasting your energy.
Your sexual energy is yourcreative energy.
Your sexual energy can also bemiracle energy, but willful
(25:24):
people use it just for sex.
So it's realizing.
What's the difference when youknow I'm using that sexual
energy as a form of love ratherthan indulgence, and I can build
with my partner.
That's what happens withpartnership?
You build with it.
(25:45):
A surprising thing that I sharein my business workshops is the
importance of their partner.
30 years ago, they did aninterview with Fortune 500 CEOs
and all 500 said these threethings that were similar.
One is that they had a goodrelationship with their partner,
(26:08):
whether it was a husband or awife, they had a really good
relationship.
The second one was that theybelieved in a higher power.
Now, this higher power whateveryou call it is working for you
Too bad.
You're not listening.
You know heaven's, you knowwill.
(26:29):
For you is total happiness.
That means total success.
That means you get the answerand you lead the way.
So the next aspect is that it'stake time for yourself exercise,
sport, you know something.
That's that's kind of need timeto regenerate, cause if you're
(26:51):
going all all out all the time,then what happens is you, you
know you'll burn out and that'sdead zone.
That's not leadership.
That's dead zone.
That's not leadership.
So how to get to this place ofhaving this great relationship
(27:11):
and using your partnership?
Now, this is a time where a lotof partnerships not just
companies, but a lot ofpartnerships are at risk, but
there's ways to get through that.
It's like I've written 14 bookson relationships and it's how,
at the heart of every problemyou have, there's a relationship
problem.
(27:31):
You can't have a problemwithout a grievance.
So it's like being able tochange these things so that you
naturally step forward.
Change these things so that younaturally step forward.
You don't take your way to yourwillingness.
(27:56):
That brings the future to youand that cuts through this
tremendous fear that's shacklingthe world to.
Speaker 1 (28:03):
Oh my god, I keep losing things.
I'm really sensing a lot ofwisdom and I'm feeling very
peaceful.
So this typically means thatthere's a lot of truth in what
you say and I acknowledge thattremendously and I open up to.
(28:24):
How can I, can we be of help tothose leaders to get the
turning point?
But that's one way of puttingit.
But the other way I found andmaybe you can give your
observation on this up until acouple of months I thought, oh,
(28:45):
covid-19, that's the worst thatcould happen.
Then I found and I wascomplaining about it because the
revenue drops and blah, blah,blah.
But then I found isn't thatexactly the time I am born for?
Isn't that the truth?
I wanted to be here because Iwanted to shift.
(29:09):
I wanted to chip for myself,for my fire, for my family, for
my kids, for my company.
I wrote a book about it thenext wave in business.
You know I waited for all thattime.
So I was, I shifted and said no, it's not the worst time,
(29:29):
that's about the time.
So how can we help peoplerelate to shift the perspective
and and bringing back the cameraonto their own purpose, onto
their destiny, onto why are theyhere now?
Speaker 2 (29:53):
It's not by mistake, it's by design.
22 years ago, working deep inpeople's minds and getting into
the unconscious, the deepestpart of the mind that's not
spirit I found that we had allmade this promise.
Our generation had made thispromise that we would take the
world from this dissociatedindependence, competitive
(30:14):
independence, into partnershipand cooperation.
So that was something that Isaw 22 years ago.
Now, what can you do?
You can reinforce, learn how tostrengthen your relationships,
because your relationship, let'ssay, your wife, your
(30:34):
relationship with your wife,that's the closest person to you
and that will reflect the worsttraps, but some of the best
qualities also.
So it's how to strengthen that,how to strengthen with your
children.
Remember you know they willchoose the old age home you go
(30:55):
into.
So treat them well, be theirpartner, you know, have faith in
them.
And the second part is it'slike in this world, besides
strengthening partnership, it'sbeing generous, being
cooperative.
It's like what could you do togive?
In general, I got the messageto give to the whole world.
(31:19):
So once a month, I am doingjust a two-hour webinar, free
webinar for the world, so thatpeople can move forward, and
it's really kind for people inAsia, timing-wise, and Europe
Not so good for North America,but it's like.
(31:40):
You know, how could I be moregenerous?
Who are the people around methat need help?
Who are the people that need aword of encouragement to see a
better way?
One of the things that is nowaccelerating is I had set up a
coaching service for executives,so I'm in the planning stages
(32:03):
of providing that worldwide forfamilies, for couples, but for
business leaders, becausethey're the ones leading the way
.
A hundred years from now, it'llbe Aboriginal people who have
their relationships with natureand with all others, like in the
Haida tribe in North America,they end every prayer with all
(32:25):
my relations, meaning all people, all four-legged animals and
nature itself, as well as thecreator.
So they recognize that.
But we'll need that 80, 100years from now.
Right now, we need business tofind the way.
You're meant to be the, the,the, the cover, the cover girl
(32:48):
for for business.
Right now, stefan, you willingto be the cover girl?
Yeah, Okay.
How about, how about?
Are you willing to be thecenterfold, yeah, yeah, and to
go?
Here it is.
Let's go, let's lead the way,let's find the way together.
Speaker 1 (33:11):
Yeah, this is the path I really enjoy.
You know, maybe 20 years ago Ithought it was all about me, I
had to know the way, but thepath let's play together and
find out together.
This is the part where I feelall the pressure kind of
disappears and it's opening upand putting myself at service,
(33:37):
you know.
And well, jack, we could talkfor hours.
Speaker 2 (33:41):
I want to tell you one more story, and it's the
power of giving it all, becausewhen you give it all, you
receive it all, and that opensyour mind to business.
It's like you put it all on theline.
17 years ago I was doing abusiness workshop in Honolulu
and there was a fellow fromTaiwan and he talked about.
(34:05):
In the flood that happened inTaiwan, his whole company had
been flooded and his aluminumfurnaces had been flooded and
they stopped working.
He called all the experts inthe world and every expert said
you can never restart analuminum furnace.
(34:25):
They're gone.
You've lost it.
Now he had 300 people workingfor him, 300 families depending
on this company.
So he decided there has to be abetter way.
I will not settle for this.
This is not heaven's plan andit's not my true plan.
I want the answer.
(34:46):
And he stayed at his office andhe slept at his office and he
worked on this problem.
He worked in spite of what allthe experts says.
In 30 days he had a way torestart the furnaces that
everybody else had said wasimpossible.
Vision is going.
You know everybody says it'simpossible, but you know there
(35:10):
has to be a better way.
It's like they they said.
I remember when I was a kidthey said nobody would.
They scientifically provednobody would ever run a four
minute mile.
We have all kinds of peoplerunning the four minute mile.
We have all kinds of peoplerunning the four minute mile
it's like.
But you have that sense, thatthat rock hard confidence that
(35:31):
heaven is working with you.
So you know, if you know, ifyou knew who walked beside you,
you wouldn't be afraid.
And at the root of everyproblem there's a number of
roots.
But at the root of everyproblem there's a number of
roots.
But at the root of everyproblem there's fear.
So heal the fear and the nextstep comes to you.
And one way is to remember whowalks with you.
(35:53):
So it's like you know yourangel is always there.
I mean, psychology of vision isa transpersonal psychology.
So we work withnon-denominational spirituality.
Your angels trying to guide you, trying to protect you, trying
to help you.
You know, and every time youknow you listen to them, they
(36:14):
get another feather in theirwings.
Right now, most of your angelslook like supermarket chickens.
You know, give them a break.
You know they're.
They're really embarrassed.
So you know their their job isyou.
You know, listen up and andhumor.
You know it's, it's a time toreally get the joke absolutely
(36:39):
you know they're the.
You know the humor creates flowand it and it's really necessary
right now.
Speaker 1 (36:47):
Chuck, I really enjoyed every single minute of
our dialogue, of ourconversation.
I know there's so much wisdomand experience with that and I'm
so delighted that you open upso much on free webinars and
that you plan on this executivecoaching thing.
I can highly recommend anyone.
(37:07):
One hour of Chuck will beprobably worth one year of
business gained, even probablymore.
So I put it in the in thecomment section I put your
company website so people cancontact you.
And and you just nailed it tome in many ways, but one way I
(37:30):
always remember remember theremust be a better way, and I
truly believe a lot.
I and you know we have all ourgreater powers and higher minds
with us this time.
And thank you for being such agreat lighthouse all the years
(37:52):
I've known you now for 20 yearsor more.
So, as it is a LeadershipEspresso podcast, be inspired
everyone what else?
And comment, ask questions.
I make sure they get sent overor we do another episode on all
(38:14):
the questions that may arise.
And next time, Chuck, I talk toElizabeth McCourt about female
leadership.
She lives in New York and wewill continue the path that we
were actually taking becausebasically we were talking a lot
about feminine energy.
(38:35):
That's the receiving part, so Iwill continue that journey with
a little bit.
So thank you for today.
Really appreciate it.
You're such a great lighthouseto me and to lots of people out
there my pleasure to be here.
Speaker 2 (38:53):
Thank you, stefan.
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