Ep. 61: Lit It or Quit It: A Forbidden Alchemy

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Kelsey (00:04):
Welcome to Lit Vibes Only, where we lit the shit
outta books we love and hate.
I'm Kelsey, the unhinged,diehard, romantic and fantasy
reader.

Amanda (00:13):
And I'm Amanda, the insightful thrill seeker and
historical fiction nerd.
Welcome, welcome, welcome.
I was like, trying to think,okay, this is our first Let it
or quit it for November.
Yes.
We're a little off with ourrecording, like schedule, so I
feel like, okay.
Where are we at in time rightnow?
But this will be, yeah.

(00:33):
Our first episode of November.
We are fully in the holidayseason, at least I am.
I start celebrating.
You're in the holiday season.
I start celebrating Christmas,like November 1st.
That's when the Christmas musiccomes out.
That's when the decorations goup.
Oh, no.
Oh no.
I, no, like I, I do letHalloween breathe.
I let Halloween live its bestlife for a minute.
For a minute.
It gets the month of October,and then it's like, all right.

(00:55):
'cause Thanksgiving ispre-Christmas.
It's like the warmup.
Oh my God.
Anyhow.

Kelsey (00:58):
Anyhow.
So Do you love Christmas?

Amanda (01:00):
I love Christmas.
Okay.
Yeah.
It's like I'm not a

Kelsey (01:02):
holiday

Amanda (01:03):
person really?

Kelsey (01:04):
So I just

Amanda (01:05):
like.
No.
It gives me all the feels.
It's so cozy.
It's also, especially inSeattle, because it gets so
grain and gloomy, like it's thething that gets me through.
It's like the, that's excitementand the joy.
Yeah.
And the community and yeah, ithelps me.
And then once Christmas over,I'm like, Ugh.

Kelsey (01:20):
The

Amanda (01:20):
winter

Kelsey (01:21):
know what season it is for me.
What, what, what did you say?
It's soup season.

Amanda (01:26):
It's, for me, it's soup season.
It's soup season.
This is very true, but I feellike my seasons go by food once.
The fall wears off and we'relike smack in the heart of
winter.
It's like January I, it's notsoup season, it's soup season's
the fall.
And now I'm like, what do I,what do I do?
What's January for?
Soup season is like year round.
But it's a great soup

Kelsey (01:47):
season right

Amanda (01:48):
now.
It, it is.
We're in prime soup seasonespecially'cause we're recording
this in October.
But, but, but, but anywaysocials I like started us off
down a rabbit hole.
So circling back that happens.
It does happen so much on this,on this podcast.
So, welcome.
And also if you have not yetfollowed us on our socials, you
should be doing that.

(02:09):
We are on Instagram at Lit Vibesonly podcast.
And then you can also find us onTikTok and on YouTube at Lit
Vibes only podcast.
So you can go.
Comment, follow, subscribe.
Mm-hmm.
All of those things.
You also can follow and orsubscribe on Spotify or Apple
Podcasts.
So you're getting like True.
All of the notifications.

(02:30):
Mm-hmm.
From our episodes drop everyMonday.
So you're like the first one inthe know.
I think one of them, which oneis it?
I think, is it on Spotify orApple Podcast?
They both drop at like midnight,is that right?
No, they all drop at 4:00 AM.
Oh, 4:00 AM I knew it was like areally weird time.
Pacific Time.
Pacific time.
Okay.
I was

Kelsey (02:48):
like, okay, I'm not gonna do midnight, but I guess,

Amanda (02:51):
you know, that makes sense for East Coast folks.
Random because it'll be like

Kelsey (02:54):
7:00 AM for them and then Yeah.

Amanda (02:56):
Yeah.
Okay.

Kelsey (02:57):
It's early enough for people to like, be able to get
it in the morning if they wantit in the morning.

Amanda (03:01):
Yes.
For your morning commute.
We can get your day started foryou on Mondays.
So yeah, please be sure to dothose things.
And then most importantly, itlooks like Kelsey wanted to say
something, but really quickly.
Yes.
Most importantly, rate andreview us if you haven't
already.
We're so grateful for all of youwho have done that.
It goes a really long way, andagain, as we are, you know,

(03:23):
fully into our second years ofpodcast and continuing to build
our brand and our following,getting those ratings and
reviews.
Really, really help us.
So please take a moment.
Mm-hmm.
Either right now at or at theend of this episode to hit that
rating button and write us a oneor two sentence review and we
would be forever grateful.
It's the, it's the season ofgiving, right?

(03:44):
It's, we're in Thanksgivingseason.
There you

Kelsey (03:46):
go.
Just gonna put that little plugin there, two seconds of your
time and rate our podcast.
We would Yes.
Be so grateful.
The thing that I wanted to sayis that also we are upping our
social media game.
We met with up frickingprofessional about, we did our
social media.
Thank you Jamie Platforms and Ifeel like we're starting to get
there.

(04:06):
Like we're, you know, getting onthe same page.
We're in the transition phaseand I think, you know, we're
just upping our game and you'regonna notice it, hopefully.
And I've noticed it already, butyeah, you're really gonna start
noticing it in the next fewweeks once we get a hang of
things.
Yes.

Amanda (04:22):
She gave us some really fantastic tips and strategies
that we're gonna beincorporating.
So come follow us so you can seewhat we're up to.
And that's so much fun.
Yeah.
How exactly we're upping ourgame, but we, we have a blast
and so much good bookish contentthat goes far beyond what we do
here on the platform.
Yeah.
So come hang out with us, getsome behind the scenes info of

(04:43):
what we're like, what thispodcasting life is like.
Yep.
So much, so much fun.
So be sure to do that.
But yeah.
Kelsey, what are you currentlygetting into reading wise right
now?
Okay.

Kelsey (04:53):
I just finished a book, it's called, oh God, I always
forget, but I'm gonna do a abook rating of Ali Hazelwood's
books very, very soon.
But I like, oh, like a

Amanda (05:04):
ranking of the, yes.
Okay.
What did I say?
You said book rating.

Kelsey (05:07):
Yeah.
Yeah.

Amanda (05:08):
Same thing, ranking

Kelsey (05:11):
of all of her books, because I am this close to
finishing all of her books.
Oh my God, that's insane.
I have maybe four more and she'sdone like a lot of novellas and
so those novellas are likethere's a bunch of those, but
they're really fast to getthrough.
And those have been some of myfavorite of hers actually.
So I'm excited for that.

(05:33):
So I just read the second in theseries, but I haven't read the
first one.
It's a problematic summerromance.

Amanda (05:40):
Oh, is that a novella?
I thought it was a full, no,

Kelsey (05:41):
that's not a novella.
Oh, okay.
I thought I thought that as Iwas just saying that.
Yeah.
She has a lot of novellas.

Amanda (05:46):
Okay.

Kelsey (05:47):
So I just finished that one.
And that was a physical book,but I am also listening to, all
My Rage.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
And it is not what I thought itwas gonna be at all.
Hmm.
And so I really, I'm reallyenjoying it so far.

Amanda (06:02):
Fantastic.
That was, and it's

Kelsey (06:03):
way shorter than I thought too.

Amanda (06:05):
Well,'cause it's, ya I remember It's ya because that
was the book that I recommended.
Yeah.
Last year for, was it, was thereImmigrant Arab American, or was
it Arab American.
Okay.
I

Kelsey (06:14):
feel like it was Arab American, but it was one of
those could been either or.
Yeah.

Amanda (06:18):
So yeah.
Perfect.
Well, I'm curious to hear whatyou think when you're finished.
'cause I haven't read it yet,but as I mentioned episode Oh,
you haven't read all my my h No.
I recommended it, but I hadn'tread it.
Oh yeah.
Oh.
But like I said in a previousepisode, my goal this year, like
this podcast year, obviouslyit's like October, but this
podcast year is to be reading abook by an author of whatever

(06:43):
heritage we're currentlycelebrating that month, like in
the month versus oh.
You know, it's January, and I'mreading an indigenous author
versus reading it in the fallwhen we're celebrating, you
know, native American HeritageMonth or just indigenous authors
in general.
So that's my goal and thattransitions beautifully into
what I'm currently readingbecause right now in October we
are still celebratingFilipino-American History Month.

(07:06):
And one of the books that Irecommended.
In October in this month yeah,was Patron Saints of Nothing by
Randy Reba, and I'm currentlylistening to the audio book of
it, and it is fantastic and I'mreally proud of myself for
putting into action the schoolthat I've set.
Yeah.
I won't go into the detailsbecause you should go back and

(07:28):
listen to that episode and getexcited for this book, but it's
fantastic.
I'm, I'm not like the biggestfan of the male audiobook,
narrator's voice.
Ah, but the story itself.
Yeah.
So, and I haven't had thatexperience yet, though so far.
I've loved all of my audiobooknarrators.
Yeah.
And I, I'm not a huge fan of it,but the story itself is

(07:48):
compelling enough andinteresting enough that it's not
a huge deal.
Is it also ya?
It's also Ya.
Okay.
The main character is a17-year-old who's like getting
ready to graduate from highschool.
Okay.
Goes back to the Philippines tofind out what happened to his
cousin who died.
It's all about the Yeah.
The drug war that happened inthe Philippines underneath
president Duterte.
So it's like very educational.
'cause I know like literallynothing and it's mm-hmm.

(08:10):
Insane.
Insane.
Absolutely insane.
What was happening, likeliterally tens of thousands of
people were just like outrightmurdered.
Oh gosh.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yikes.
It's wild.
And then because I'm turninginto an audiobook, really, I'm
now like doing this thing whereI'm reading two books at one
time because I have my audiobookand I I have, I'm so proud of
you.

Kelsey (08:26):
Thank

Amanda (08:26):
you.
It's all because of you in thispodcast.
So now I'm often reading twobooks at one time, which I've
never, that was never me.
I was always like a monogamousreader.
And so I'm also reading.
Wonderland by Jennifer Hillieron my e-reader.
Ah, okay.
Which I've talked about her alot on this podcast.
She is a p and w author.

(08:47):
Mm-hmm.
She writes a bunch.
She's a thriller author.
So this is another one that'sset in the PW at a creepy, well,
it's at an amusement park and abody turns up and the amusement
park itself is creepy and weirdand I love it so far.
It's like a mix of kind ofhorror and thriller a bit.
And I love Jennifer Hillier, soI think this is my.

(09:07):
I think this is my fifth book ofhers that I've read.
So like with Ali Hazelwood, I'mlike working my way.
Yes.
Through her entire, like libraryor not library, what is the
word?
Her entire something.
Collection.
Collection.
There's another word and I can'tthink of it.
But yes, her entire body ofworks.
Yeah, I'm working my waythrough, but yeah, that's what

(09:28):
I'm reading, so.
Yay.
It's been a good reading month,which is so impressive for
people to have

Kelsey (09:33):
collections of work.
Yeah like bodies of work.

Amanda (09:35):
Yeah.
It's pretty wild.
I'm like, I couldn't even writeone book.
Well, maybe, maybe someday.
I feel like you will one day forsure.
Oh, thank you.
I appreciate the, theconfidence.
Yeah.
But yeah, that's, that's whatwe're reading.
So I think we have a book todiscuss that.
Kelsey, will you please show uswhat book it is in this?
Yeah.
So if you're watching onYouTube, it is A Forbidden

(09:58):
Alchemy by Stacey mcu.
And this is actually Kelsey'scopy that I borrowed from her.
Yes.
So I have thoughts about thecover that we'll talk about
later.
Yeah.
You hated the cover when youfirst saw it.
Yes.
You're like, that's a, I stilldon't like it.
It just,

Kelsey (10:10):
we'll get, we'll get to it.
We, I have thoughts, I guess whyI made you read it.
Wait, say that again now?
Is this now my moment where Itell you where Oh, yes.
Yes.
I thought you were

Amanda (10:22):
saying like, this is why I made you read it, because I
knew

Kelsey (10:24):
you hated the cover.
Oh yeah.
I

Amanda (10:25):
was

Kelsey (10:25):
like, wow.
Well, it's funny because we wentto the bookstore and I actually
bought this book.
Mm-hmm.
With you.
Yeah.
Together.
And I, you had a reaction tothis book immediately and you
were like, Ew.

Amanda (10:38):
Yeah.
Essentially the video is on oursocial, so you can go back and
watch it.
My like real time reaction toher picking this book up and
buying it.

Kelsey (10:45):
And so I was like, I need to have this book.
And you're like, Ew.
And then and read it.
And I absolutely loved it.
I was like, oh my God, I have tohave Amanda read this one.
But I was like, I don't knowwhen though, because I was gonna
have you read, what was itQuicksilver this month?
Yes.
And you were like, Kelsey, Ineed a shorter book.
Oh my gosh.
So long.
I was like, fine.
Because we were at the beginningof like school and so I said,

(11:08):
okay, okay, this one's actuallyshorter and like the font is
bigger, so mm-hmm.
You're welcome.
So that's why thank you.
This month it was this book.
I was gonna always have you readit after I had read it, but this
felt like a good, a good month.
Okay.
For a shorter book.

Amanda (11:23):
Okay.
So your reasons are that it wasa shorter book and you really
liked it.
I really, I loved it.
You

Kelsey (11:29):
loved it?
I love it.
Okay.
And I cannot wait for book booktwo.
Okay.
All right.
Hey, so this is when I ask you,Amanda, yes.
What is your short answer?
Was it a lit it or acquit it foryou?

Amanda (11:45):
So before I answer, I just wanna toot my own horn and
that it has been like totalradio silence for me on this
book for Kelsey.
I have texted her.
I even,'cause I, I realized thatshe can see my ratings on
Goodreads'cause we're friends.
Yeah.
I didn't even rate it because Iwas like, I want her to go into
this episode completely blind.
So just wanted to pat myself onthe back.

(12:05):
So, good job.
Good job for me.
Thank you.
Thanks so much.
For me, this book was a lit it Ireally enjoyed it.

Kelsey (12:16):
I'm so excited.
Oh

Amanda (12:17):
my God.
I knew that was gonna totallytake you by surprise.
Especially'cause I've beenplaying it off, like I didn't
like it.
Oh my gosh.
And

Kelsey (12:26):
also the last one that I thought you would like.
I, I didn't even go in thinkingyou would like this.
I was like, I don't know.
She'll go either way.
I don't know.
Yeah.
Yeah.
'cause the last one I thoughtyou would like.
You were like, oh, this

Amanda (12:35):
was awful.
What was it?
What was the last one, hunter?
Oh, oh God.
Yeah.
I did not like that at all.
No, I enjoyed this book so muchand I actually shut up.
Cannot wait for the second bookto come out.
I'm like, what?
Shut up.
This is why I hate series.
'cause now I'm like hooked andwho I think it's coming out next

(12:56):
year.
I don't even know.
Yeah.
Next year.
Mm-hmm.
Okay.
So I don't have to wait toolong.
But yeah, I really enjoyed it.
Oh my

Kelsey (13:01):
god, Amanda, I know we get to have a night where we go
get the book together.
Oh no.
And maybe Stacey McEwen will behere because I think she.
Came here and I missed her'causeI was some, yeah, I was
somewhere else or something.
You had an appointment orsomething and she is okay.
There's so many things I wannaget into.
Tell us the summary of the book.
We'll get into it, Amanda.
We'll get into

Amanda (2) (13:21):
it.
Okay.
Okay.
I know I was gonna make Kelsey'sday with that, so I just had to
really just draw out thesuspense.
I'm so proud of myself.
Okay, friend.
Romans countrymen a ForbiddenAlchemy by Stacey McEwen.
Let's get into it.
So this story follows it's dualPOV yeah, the FMC is Nina Harrow
who ultimately goes by NinaClark, and we'll get to that in

(13:42):
a second.
So she's got two names that shegoes by and then Patrick Colson.
And so the story opens on Nina'sperspective and she's a young
woman, 12 years old, growing upin a mining town, on the
outskirts of, of this land.
Mm-hmm.
And in this world, people aredivided into two categories.
You're either a craftsman whoessentially is like.

(14:04):
The person who does the manuallabor in this world, right?
You're working with your handsand then you have artisans who
have magic.
Mm-hmm.
And use that magic to createthings, right?
Whether it's art or music orworking with the natural world
or different metals to, tobuild, create, et cetera.

(14:24):
So that's how the world isdivided.
And the artisans are essentiallythe upper class.
They're wealthy.
They live in this beautifulplace called Belove City, and
everyone else lives in theoutskirts.
And in, in these other kind oflower income towns, a lot of
them are mining towns.
Mm-hmm.
And they're mining towns becausethere's this special substance

(14:45):
called idio, and that is wherethese magical powers are derived
from.
Idiom also produces this othersubstance called bluff, which
has healing powers as well.
Mm-hmm.
But doesn't grant you magicalabilities.
So every year.
There is a siphoning ceremony inBella, ve city.
So every child who has turned 12that year is taken from all over

(15:07):
the country or all over thisland to Bella Vere city to drink
this idiom substance.
Mm-hmm.
And you'll figure out if you'rean artisan or a craftsman based
on how your body responds.
And so pretty much right afteryou consume it, you'll be like,
oh my gosh, I can manipulatewater, or I can manipulate
metal, or I can, you know,whatever it might be.

(15:28):
So while Nina is at this Sipingceremony, she is very excited
because she really wants to bean artisan.
She's always been artistic,loves to draw.
That's just her thing.
She runs into a young man namedPatrick, who is like totally
over it.
He doesn't wanna be there.
He wants to just go home andwork in the mines with his
father and brother.

(15:48):
And over the course of the day,while they're waiting in this,
you know, massive yard to be.
Siphoned or to go through theceremony.
Mm-hmm.
They, through a series ofshenanigans, find themselves in
this store room and discoverthat what actually is happening
during these siphoningceremonies is not everyone is
given a fair shot to take idiom.

(16:09):
There's actually specificbottles that are set aside that
are given to the children ofwealthy artisans to ensure that
they have magical powers andthat basically all of the other
children don't and go back towork, you know, in the minds and
manual labor, et cetera.
So they realize this, so theysteal one each two bottles of
the right stuff, like the goodstuff.

(16:30):
And so when Nina goes up to todrink the liquid, she swaps
things out.
Drinks the one that will giveher magical abilities and voila,
she discovers that she actuallyhas a really unique power called
Earth Charming.
And so she's an earth charmer,she can move.
Mm-hmm.
And manipulate.
The earth and there hasn't beenan earth charmer in a, in a long

(16:51):
time.
So this is a really big deal.
It's also a really big dealbecause all of the authorities
are like, wait, how did thishappen?
Right?
Mm-hmm.
How did this girl from scurry,this little mining town get the
right substance?

Kelsey (17:02):
Mm-hmm.

Amanda (17:03):
So in order to keep her safe and protect her, one of the
women who is in charge ofadministering the test or
overseeing the test acts likeNina is like her long lost
cousin or something.
Or her niece.
Her niece I think, sorry, herniece or her cousin.
And so that's why her name ischanged from Nina Harrow to Nina
Clark.
So that mm-hmm.
They can pass her off as Right,you know, half artisan and it's

(17:23):
not gonna be this huge scandal.
Meanwhile, Patrick goes home andthey part ways.
A series of years pass, Nina hasbeen attending this academy
where she's learning how to useher powers.
Mm-hmm.
She meets another high rankingartisan, who also is given a
really cool power.
He, he can charm water.
He's a water charmer.
His name's Theodore.

(17:43):
He's the son of this highranking official, and they
ultimately fall in love.
And so we see their romanticrelationship developing.
She also forms a friendship withthis young woman named Polly who
has a lesser magic.
She's a scribbler, so she canbasically transfer messages to
different places magically.
And she's also an outcast.

(18:04):
You know, she's not wealthy andpopular like the other, other
students.
So that's her life at theacademy.
And on the day of hergraduation, when she's getting
ready to leave the academy, amassive explosion happens in the
building.
Mm-hmm.
And kills her fake aunt,

Kelsey (18:21):
and

Amanda (18:21):
injures a bunch of other people is a really traumatic
event for Nina.
And we find out.
As Nina's been in school thesepast several years, there's been
unrest brewing and like theoutskirts of this land.
Mm-hmm.
The miners have had it withtheir mistreatment and so
there's this minor's union, thisgroup that has formed, that has

(18:42):
basically been launching a taxagainst the House of Lords
against be VE city.
And this unrest has againstartisans and it's been
continuing to mount.
And so this huge explosion thathappens in Be Vere City is like
the catalyst for ramping up theconflict between craftsmen and
artisans.

Kelsey (18:59):
Yeah.

Amanda (19:00):
After this event, Nana is like, I am done.
I am out of here.
She leaves Bevere city andspends another chunk of years
wandering from town to town.
She.
Doesn't let anyone know thatshe's an earth charmer.
She's like living under theradar'cause she's, she was
supposed to be used by the Houseof Lords in their fight against

(19:22):
the craftsman because she hasthis incredible power.
So she's like, I don't wanna beused as a weapon in this war, so
I'm gonna go into hiding.
So she's been bouncing aroundfrom like town to town and
ultimately she gets captured bythe minor's union who we
discover is currently being ledby none other than Patrick
Colson, who is like the boy shemet when she was 12.

(19:43):
Mm-hmm.
And they quickly recognize eachother.
The reason why Patrick isrunning the minor's union is
because his father, who is theperson who started the union,
has been arrested and takencaptive.
And so Patrick has stepped upand taken over the leadership of
the minor's union.
And he's also taken overleadership of the town that he

(20:04):
lives in, Kenton Hill.
And so that is where Nina istaken.
And so the next chunk of thenovel, we follow Nina and
Patrick getting reacquaintedwith each other.
But Patrick has a big ask ofNina.
He basically wants to use Nina'sabilities to carve tunnels from

(20:24):
Kenton Hill to Bevere City sothey can launch another attack
on Bevere City free.
His father take down the Houseof Lords once and for all.
What she doesn't realize until alittle bit later is that.
Patrick's been busy and he's gota couple other artisans working
for him as well, one of thembeing her old Flame Theodore

(20:46):
shop.
So he's also been working withthe resistance with the Min's
Union to help them carve thesetunnels because as a water
charmer, he can remove themoisture from the earth as
they're carving these tunnels.
Mm-hmm.
So we spend a good chunk of timeIn this world in Kenton Hill,
which I really enjoyed.
We'll talk about that later.
And it really is just them likeprepping for this conflict, them

(21:09):
strategizing.
We get to see a little bit moreof what life is like in Kenton
Hill.
Mm-hmm.
Nina is really impressed becauseeven though all of these
individuals are craftsmen,they've used their ingenuity and
innovation to create things likeindoor plumbing and things that
really are only found in BevereCity where people have magic.
Right?

(21:29):
So she falls in love with thetown.
She obviously starts to develop,or I guess rekindle feelings for
Patrick.
There's a bit of a love trianglehappening because Theodore
obviously still loves her andessentially everything comes to
a head at the end of the bookbecause, kenton Hill is betrayed
and the Lord's army shows up oneevening mm-hmm.

(21:55):
In Kenton Hill and just startsto like plunder and pillage sets
things on fire.
People are being murdered.
So there's this massive conflicthappening between artisans and
craftsmen.
Mm-hmm.
And in that conflict, a coupleof things come out.
One Patrick realizes, and he isrealized before this actually,
there was like this moment ofrevelation that Nina is in fact

(22:20):
working for the artisans becauseshe found out.
A couple years ago that hermother who went missing when she
was a child, has been held bythe House of Lords.
And they basically told her, ifyou don't go and infiltrate the
minor's union and get us what weneed mm-hmm.
We're gonna hurt your mother orkill your mother.

(22:40):
Kill.
Mm-hmm.
So she been working for themthis whole time, even as she's
fallen in love with Patrick andrealized like she really doesn't
wanna do this thing.
So Patrick finds this out, he'sheartbreaking, broken, he's
destroyed.
The one thing that is like ahuge reveal though, and one
thing that I haven't mentionedis that in this world, the most
powerful artisans are alchemistsbecause they're the ones who can

(23:04):
turn idiom into what it is.
Right into this thing that canbe consumed by humans.
It can create bluff, which healspeople.
And the last Living Alchemisthas been kidnapped and we find
out later is dead.
And that's a big deal becausewithout idiom, nobody's magical
powers exist.
Like you have to be taking idiomlike every couple of months.
Right.

(23:24):
To maintain your powers.
Yep.
And we find it at the very endthat Patrick did drink the idiom
that he ran off with when he was12.
And it turns out that he is thelast Living Alchemist.
But the story ends with Nina andPatrick at odds with each other.
He's obviously pissed at her forbetraying him.
She's heartbroken because she'slike, I really did mean to, and

(23:44):
I was in a tough spot.
And so it ends with both ofthem.
Getting captured by the Lord'sarmy and marched back to Bever
City.
And that is where this storyends.
So very much like cliffhanger.
But yeah, that's essentially itin a nutshell.
Obviously I skipped over a lotof the intervening little side
quests and adventures thathappen, but that's it.

(24:06):
Yeah.
In a nutshell for those of youwho haven't read it.

Kelsey (24:09):
Yeah.
Oh my gosh.
There's also a lot of charactersin this book.
There's a lot of characters, so.
Mm-hmm.
I wanna just highlight really.
Theodore's dad I don't rememberwhat they call it, but he's like
the president essentially of theartisans.
Mm-hmm.
He's like the head person andhe's the head lord or something.
Yeah.
And Nina was always trained withTheodore because they have those

(24:34):
special powers and they'reunique mm-hmm.
To do the things for theartisans.
Right.
And so she always had thisconflict growing up.
Mm-hmm.
And it was like five to sixyears as she was training.
Yep.
Right?
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, because it was like from12 to 18 ish.
Mm-hmm.
But then also I wanna highlightthe town of Kenton.
It's Kenton, right?
Kenton Hill.
Yeah.

(24:54):
Kenton Hill.
Where?
Patrick has his mom.
Mm-hmm.
His brother.
Is that Donnie?
Two.
Two brothers.
His brother Donnie.
And who's the other brother?
I don't remember.
So there's two brothers.
Yeah.
But then there's also anotherguy, right?
I mean, he has this like littlegroup of men.

(25:14):
There's like works posting with,he's like coffee.

Amanda (25:16):
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
And they

Kelsey (25:17):
all have their own jobs, right?
Yes.
Like their own parts of play.
Yes.
But then there's Theo.
Mm-hmm.
And I think it's Polly.
It's Polly Poly Pauly.
Mm-hmm.
Who also is there mm-hmm.
Who has a special gift of She'sa scribbler.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I didn't fully understand herability until the end, but

(25:38):
basically she can write notesand it goes to the person that
it, it's meant to but likemagically.
Yes.
Yeah.
So she's been also working withthe artisans mm-hmm.
Undercover.
Mm-hmm.
So all those folks.
Yeah.
And someone at the end, someonefrom the town or Theo or Polly
betrayed the town.

(25:59):
Yep.
And that's why the army comesthere.
Mm-hmm.
But what's his name?
Patrick thinks it is Nina.
Nina,

Amanda (26:07):
yeah.
But I don't think it is.
No, I mean, it's, it'sdefinitely not, because I think
if that was the case, that wouldbe so inexcusable that there
would be no space for them tohave like holy kind of a
redemption arc later.
So I'm absolutely confident it'snot her.
She also seemed very surprisedby the whole incident when it
was happening.
Yes.
Yeah.
But yeah, there's a, there's apretty big cast of characters,

(26:28):
but not so much so that you're.
Confused for a good length ofthe book or need a glossary or
anything like that, or acharacter.
Mm-hmm.
A list of characters.
But I really enjoyed my time inCanton Hill for sure.

Kelsey (26:40):
I am so glad.
So Amanda, do you wannahighlight some of the things you
really enjoyed about the book?
Yeah,

Amanda (26:47):
of course.
So for one, this is a minorthing, but even though they
start off the novel as children,right?
Mm-hmm.
And there is that span of timewhen she's at the academy
setting, you know, from the ageof 12, like you said, to 18
mm-hmm.
The bulk of the book.
She's like a fully grown adult.
She's 25.
Mm-hmm.
And again, we read a lot ofromantic books where the
characters are like 19, right?

(27:08):
Yeah.
And I appreciated having olderprotagonists in the book.
I personally like that.
I also felt.
That.
'cause for me, as you know, likesmut is not, I'm not a huge fan
of smut.
It's a turnoff for me, but Ifelt like the smut in this book
was earned and mm-hmm.

(27:28):
I like enjoyed it.
I wasn't like, oh my God, herewe go.
Ugh.
I was like, oh, here's anothercast.
Yeah.
Exact.
Oh my God.
Yes.
It was, I thought thoughtfullydoled out in measured portions.
Yeah.
And again, it felt like it wasearned and not gratuitous.
It was like, okay, here's likeanother smut scene just for the
sake of a smut scene.

(27:48):
Mm-hmm.
So I really mm-hmm.
Liked that.
As I've already mentionedseveral times, I loved the
portrayal of life in Kenton Hilland the community there, the
characters there.
Yeah.
It was really warm and grittyand realistic and yeah, you
don't always find that in.

(28:09):
Romantic novels, obviously itcan be there, it just depends on
the world and how the author'sgoing about conveying it.
But I personally, as a reader,love both characters and
locations that I like, want tospend time with and, and time
in, right?
Mm-hmm.
So places I wanna spend time inand characters I wanna spend
time with, and I like even thoseminor interactions with

(28:33):
characters in that world.
Mm-hmm.
I was like, this is great.
Sure, let's take a walk throughtown and see what folks are up
to or you know, what folks arecomplaining about at the town
meeting or whatever it might be.
Yeah.
Or like the relationshipbetween, you know, Patrick and
his brothers, or Patrick and hismom.
Mm-hmm.
I just thought they were allwell developed and I liked, like

(28:54):
I said before, how in spite ofthe fact that the artisans have.
Been hoarding their powers,their magic, and therefore their
innovations that they've beenable to create.
They were able to use their own,like I said, ingenuity,
creativity, intelligence to

Kelsey (29:10):
mm-hmm.
R

Amanda (29:11):
up their own forms of, you know, electricity and like I
said, indoor plumbing and all ofthese amenities.
And so just like looking at thecreativity and resilience of the
human spirit, I really likedthat.
Mm-hmm.
I also, you know, as someone whoreads a lot of thrillers.
I love a good twist.
You know, I love, something thatjust like reaches outta the page
and like smacks me upside thehead.

(29:32):
I'm like, what just happened?
And I'm looking at my notes andin the book and, and I, I take
notes as I'm reading.
So it's a chronological I don'tknow, like record, of, how I was
reacting.
And so I typed like anothersurprise.
Patrick is a Smith.
I didn't, I didn't see thatcoming.
I was like, oh, but that makessense.
I guess he took the idiom withhim.

(29:53):
He probably did end up drinkingit.
Yeah.
So and then later on, like allcaps, Patrick is the alchemist,
question mark, question mark.
I literally gasped out loud andI did, I literally out loud, I
was like, what?
That was my reaction.
I was so blown away.
Like I truly, that one, I, Idon't know why either.
I, I guess I just, yeah, I wasso caught up in, in all the

(30:15):
other story and everything else,it just.
It did not even cross my mindthat that could possibly happen.
Oh, wow.
Especially because earlier inthe story, as I just read to
you, we find out that he is aSmith and I was like, oh, well
if you're a Smith, then that'swhat you are, like, that's your
power.
Right.
And I, I, yeah, I, so I justfigured that was it.
So that really took me back.
And a back.
And then the last thing I'll saythat I loved is that, you know,

(30:37):
this is in terms of tropes it,it's, hmm.
It's like a lovers to enemies,to lovers trope.
It's very interesting.
Yeah.
I guess it's enemies to lovers,but.
The tension between Patrick andNina is just like palpable the
entire time, right?
Yeah.
And you're sitting there waitingfor everything to go to shit

(30:58):
because you know Nina is lyingto Patrick and you know
everything is gonna blow up.
And so the entire time you'rejust like, oh God.
Like I know this is gonna beabsolutely awful, but also I'm
rooting for them.
But also Nina f*cking tell thetruth.
And so it just created thisdelicious tension that kept me
on the edge of my seat and gaveme so much anxiety oh my gosh.

(31:20):
And kept me reading.
So I also really enjoyed that.

Kelsey (31:25):
Yeah.
How long did it take you toread.
Oh God.
Like a day I think.
Yeah.
No, it was, it

Amanda (31:30):
was like blaze through it.
It was so, it

Kelsey (31:33):
was a really, it was like a shorter book for you.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And the font, like I said, waslike, it is big on the page.
I wanted to go back to yourcomment about the grit of the
city or like mm-hmm.
The town, right?
Yeah.
And that is exactly how Idescribed it.
When I first read it.
I was like, the grittiness ofthe characters, like they're

(31:53):
real.
Yeah.
And this also feels like a realrevolution because that's how
you would do it, is you takecare of the people, take care of
your yourselves.
Yeah.
And then build up to a pointwhere you're able to.
Take it out on the, the uppersyou know what I mean?
The uppers.

Amanda (32:12):
Yeah.
Like for drugs, uppers anddowners,

Kelsey (32:17):
you know?
You know, it's just one of myanother, yeah.
It's the powers

Amanda (32:19):
that be another m

Kelsey (32:21):
Yes.
But yeah, so I really love thataspect.
You know, the other thing that Ireally, really loved was seeing
Patrick fall for Nina.
It was like, yeah, yeah,absolutely.
He himself, like his characteris like the base of the grit of
the town.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Like you could tell that he'sholding on so much and he's like

(32:43):
also so tough and intelligent.
Yeah.
And all these things, but hejust loses it when Ninas a
rapper.

Amanda (32:50):
Absolutely.
I feel like if I was a bookboyfriend girl, which I am not,
but if I was like, Patrick woulddefinitely.
Be up there for me for sure.
Heck yeah.
Because I, I don't remember nowwe talked about book boyfriends
with one of the Umar books andyou're like, oh, Amanda, do you
have a book boyfriend?
I can't remember which two itwas though.
Yeah, I know.
I was like, was it, I don'tremember You said reel I think.

(33:12):
Wait, it was, yeah, it was Reel.
Yeah, that's right.
But yeah, so I'd be like,Patrick would be on my list if I
had one for sure.
But it's funny because when Iwas thinking about Patrick's
relationship to Kenton Hill andthe way that he just worked so
hard to take care of everyone,to manage everything, to settle
disputes, to make people,mm-hmm.
Sure, sure.
People are cared for.

(33:33):
It reminded me so much ofReese's relationship to Veris
and how he feels thisresponsibility to mm-hmm.
Protect his people at all costs,the sacrifices he's willing to
make and you know how much thepeople like treasure him and
look up to him and respect him.
Mm-hmm.
And so for me that wasdefinitely a parallel between
those two books.

(33:54):
And even to the extent that likeReese Patrick Yeah.
Like you said, can have thistough exterior and are like, you
know, very jokey, but underneathhe's like a total smush,
especially when it comes toYeah.
You know?
Right.
Yeah.
Or Reeses case Vera and so justlike family even.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So I really, I really liked thatportrayal.

(34:15):
And to your earlier point, Ithink my buy-in was so much
higher with this book because itdid feel real world.
Mm-hmm.
Like it felt like if you look atall of the different labor
movements that have happenedeven in our country, right?
Mm-hmm.
I could tell, or I think anyway,that Stacey very much grounded.
Yeah.
Those characters.

(34:36):
And this plot point in thosethings.
Yeah.
Right.
In, in worker and labormovements that have happened
throughout history.

Kelsey (34:43):
Yeah.
I, I would guess, and this ishow I read it, I'd be curious to
hear the audio book.
'cause I physically read it.
Yeah.
But it just reminded me of theIrish and like them going
through their revolution.
And so I wondered if she Yeah.
Related it to that.
Yeah.
And oh yeah, possibly.
Yeah, because the accent, that'swhat it read like to me was like

(35:05):
Irish.
Yeah.
I could see that.
I could, I could totally seethat be like, you could make
your own accent in your head,but I'm curious what the audio
book sounds like and if, and ifit is.

Amanda (35:16):
Yeah, that'd be fun to know.
That would be interesting.
But it did.
I could see that giving youthose vibes for sure.
Yeah.
But.
I mean, the other thing aboutthis book that I, I liked too,
that I just thought of whichgoes along with like the, the
grit I guess, is that it feltlike the story itself was
grounded in ideas and questionsabout.

(35:41):
Real life, like how do you run asociety?
Mm-hmm.
What has more value when you'rein conflict?
Who is the aggressor and who'snot?
When is violence okay when it'snot?
Because nita's grappling withall of those things.
And so it's not like this fluff,romantic piece, like it is very
much connected to, even withlooking at the craftsmen and
artisans, it's like, which ismore important, right.

(36:03):
Manual labor or creativity.
Right.
Thought versus action.
Mm-hmm.
And you know, where do we placevalue in our society and why?
So I thought there were so manymoments in the book was like, oh
yeah.
Like I need to stop and thinkabout what I feel about this and
how I see this showing up in oursociety.

Kelsey (36:19):
Yeah.

Amanda (36:20):
And that just gives me so much more buy-in when I'm
reading, particularly a romanticbook.
Yeah.
And makes me more interested.
So I really liked

Kelsey (36:29):
that.
And I think ultimately that'swhat I really love about fantasy
is that it can do that.
Yeah.
It can, when it's done well.
Yes.
It directly relates to thepolitics that mm-hmm.
You see in the world and how.
It's just playing with that ideaof what does an ideal society
look like?
Yeah.
And and yeah, that, thattranslates directly to real

(36:49):
life.
Yeah.

Amanda (36:51):
Yeah.
And I think too, Nina's spend somuch of this novel processing
her feelings about both sides,because obviously even though
she was born in the craftsman'sworld, she spent a significant
amount of time in Bevere City.
And now that she, she's backwith the craftsman so she can
see.
The humanity of both sides.

(37:12):
Exactly.
And it's easy, I think, in anyconflict or any situation,
whether it's more of a physicalconflict, or if it's something
more social like, I believesomething different than you do
and I'm in a different camp thanyou are.
Mm-hmm.
It's so easy to demonize theother side or dehumanize the
other side.
Right.
In order to make yourself feelbetter and.
She stuck because she's like, Iknow these artisans, I know

(37:34):
their names.
Mm-hmm.
I slept in dorm rooms next tothem.
I went to class with them, oneof them, was my pseudo aunt for
six years.
Mm-hmm.
So it's not as simple as sayingevery single artisan is a
horrible person.
Right.
Because they're benefiting fromthe oppression of the craftsman.
And Yeah.
There's this quote from Ninathat I wrote down, which is

(37:54):
quote, and wasn't that the trueevil of war?
That it didn't have the decencyto strip the humanity of those
we killed and it's this ideathat yeah, regardless of whether
you think you're in the right orthe wrong, you are taking
another individual's life,right?
And that's never something tojust blow off or dismiss or just
say it's okay in the name of Xcause, right?

(38:15):
Mm-hmm.
I like that she was able toarticulate that for herself and
pull that out for herself.
Mm-hmm.
And it wasn't just this youknow, very two-dimensional,
we're the bad guy or they're thegood guy.
Oh gosh, we're the good guys.
They're the bad guys.
Yeah.
Full stop.
'cause it's never that simple.
It's so much more nuanced.
There's so much more gray area.
Mm-hmm.
And I like that the book playedwith that tension versus it

(38:37):
being so overly simplistic.
Right.

Kelsey (38:40):
There was something else I was going to add in there, but
yeah, I, I don't remember whenit happened, but I think it was
early on in Nina's experiencewhile she was with the artisans,
but she is told the history ofwhy now the idiom is only given
to certain families and certainpeople.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Is because there was uproar inall of this when everybody was

(39:02):
getting it.
Mm-hmm.
Or like when a big chunk ofpeople were getting it.
Yeah.
And so it had to be streamlinedin a way where it wasn't
dangerous.
Right.
But then it became this thing,this hierarchy.
Oh, it's just about power.
Yes.
And so that is curious and alsobrings the humanity of like the
situation.
Mm-hmm.
It didn't just start out thisway.
Yeah.
It evolved this way.
Right.
And that's very typical.

(39:23):
Yeah.
Of like real life and what Yeah.
How power comes to be.

Amanda (39:28):
Right.
And oftentimes, so relatable.
It can start off, like you justsaid, as someone doing what they
feel is right.
Like, Oh, we started off givingIDM to everyone.
People are abusing their magicalpowers.
We need to figure out a way torestrict this because it's for
the greater good.
Mm-hmm.
And then ultimately it turnsinto a system of haves and have
nots.
Right?
Yeah.
And, and the elite.
So yeah.
I just think she, she was reallysmart about Yeah.

(39:50):
The way that she created thebackdrop for this conflict uhhuh
instead of just painting withbroad strokes, which I think
sometimes can happen with, andnot even just romantic authors
or fantasy authors, but ingeneral.
And but when, you know, it feelslike an author is just being
lazy and it's just again, likethe characters are two
dimensional.
The conflict is two dimensional,and it's like, no.

(40:11):
She took the time to wrestlewith, the icky, gritty, parts of
life and humans.
Mm-hmm.
'Cause even in Kenton Hill,right, where they are trying to
form this society of equity andlooking out for each other
mm-hmm.
The

Kelsey (40:28):
idea.
Mm-hmm.
People are still

Amanda (40:30):
making poor choices.
Right?
Yep.
And we see Patrick having todeal with that.
But we also see, and I lovedthis too, Patrick has done bad
things in the name of Good,right?
Mm-hmm.
And he fully admits that he'slike, in order to have this
utopia, which is, they don'thave that, but they're working
towards it.
Right?
Right.
There's gonna be hard choicesthat have to be made.

(40:53):
There's gonna be people who areharmed there are gonna it's
never that simple.
And so he's also wrestling withthat and has a lot of guilt over
it.
Yes.
Overall, like we're aiming forthe greater good.
Yeah.
But along the way there are somequestionable choices mm-hmm.
Being made and, and violencethat is enacted mm-hmm.

(41:14):
To create and sustain thosesystems.
Like killing the otheralchemist.
Yeah, exactly.
Or even when they go to pick upthat shipment from, from, I
don't even remember what exactlytheir rules were, but you know,
he had to get physical withthem, right?
Mm-hmm.
In order to protect theidentities of people in order to

(41:34):
make sure they had, the weaponsthey needed, et cetera.
Mm-hmm.
So I just, I don't know.
I really liked that.
Especially as an adult readerwho, you know, can deal with a
bit more complexity.
Mm-hmm.
And so I think I was alsoworried, I, I don't, I don't
know how this book is marketed.
I don't know if it's considereda YA book or not.
Mm-hmm.
I know it starts off as 12 yearolds, but you know, they spend
most of the the, the novel asadults.

(41:56):
So that was weird for me tryingto figure out okay, who's the
audience for this?
But I like that she trusted thatthe readers could handle it, you
know?
Yeah.
That's great.
I really enjoyed that.

Kelsey (42:06):
The other thing that I want to bring up is like mm-hmm.
Stacey McEwen herself.
Mm-hmm.
She's on TikTok.
She is fucking hilarious.
Mm-hmm.
And obviously so smart.
And I love that combination inan author you should go check
out some of her videos.
Okay.
But one of her most recentvideos was marketing this book,

(42:26):
and it was, will you hold up themap?
So there was like two things.
Oh yeah.
For those who don't needYouTube, she's from Australia
and she's like, I am going toaddress all the hate I've been
getting.
And she's like, this is notAustralia.
And she was like.
I

Amanda (42:45):
mean, it looks like Australia.
And as someone who's

Kelsey (42:49):
lived it does, it was just, it was just this bit,
right?
She was like, yeah, obviously Ibit into a potato chip.
And then just outlined it.
That is how all romantic authorsmade their maps.
And so it was just hilarious.
It was hilarious.
That's funny.
She was like, yeah, it looksfucking like Australia.
And then there was another thingshe did where she was like, I
wanted to react to all of yourguys', like fan what is it

(43:12):
called?
Theories.
Mm-hmm.
And like the first one she getsto, she's reading and she's
like,, the first theory is thatNina is a bitch.
And she's like, yeah.
And then moves on.
And there was just like, it wasstupid fan theories.
It wasn't even Yeah, anythingimportant.
And then someone said, Patrickis end game.
And she was like, it was just,I'm like, is there any other end

(43:38):
game?
That's how I read it.
I was like, Theo obviously isnot.
No.
And is there someone else Iactually could see though, yeah.
That Patrick dies.
I could see that.

Amanda (43:50):
Happening.
This, I could see it because oneof my, I, I wouldn't say it's a
theory, but maybe a predictionis that this world ultimately
cannot continue with some folkstaking idium and some folks not.
Yeah.
And it also can't continue witheveryone taking it'cause they
tried that.
So I think it's gonna be like,you know what mm-hmm.
Let humans just be humanswithout these super powered

(44:10):
abilities.
We clearly can Yeah.
Innovate without them.
'cause we've seen evidence ofthat in Kenton Hill mm-hmm.
So I could see him like dying,him being the last alchemist and
humans no longer having theability to transform this
substance into idium and, andconsume it.
Yeah.
So that actually would work.
Like I would be, I know totallyon board with that.
I like the message that it sendsas well, so.

(44:33):
Distressed.
I mean, but also but it would begood storytelling.
It would be cathartic to justrip your little heart out.
I mean, my heart's already beenripped out how the first book
ended, so it was awful.
It was awful.
Yeah,

Kelsey (44:46):
absolutely.
What else?
Also someone made a video aboutthe canaries.
Okay.
Do you have any theories aboutthe

Amanda (44:53):
meaning of the canaries?
I mean, I don't know thatthere's like a, I mean, here's
the thing.
Like they used to use them inmines, like that was how you
would know if it was safe ornot.
So I don't know that there'slike some special meaning behind
it, except for if these areactual miners in mines, they
would have used canaries.
Yeah, that's it.

Kelsey (45:12):
Are there, is there more to it?
I think there probably is a, Ithink there is a deeper meaning
to it, but maybe not.
I don't know.
It could go either way.
But this one guy was theorizingthat, what was it like when the
canaries are silent?
Mm-hmm.
It means death has occurred andthen when they're singing it
means it's safe.

(45:32):
And there was like, at the endof the book, a Canary was
singing or something like that,I don't remember.
And so there was like this ideathat no, it's gonna be like,
okay oh, I don't, interesting.
And then, okay, the theory wasalso that Nina represented a
canary but I don't know why.

Amanda (45:52):
Oh, but she, do you have any more thoughts about that?
I mean, I don't know becauseagain, the canary's purpose in a
mind is to indicate like whenit's safe.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Or when, you need to get thehell out.
And I don't feel like Nina'scharacter did that in the story.
For anyone?
I don't think she was like thisharbinger of doom or also like,

(46:16):
Hey, I am.
I don't know.
Yeah.
I, I don't, I don't see theconnection.
I mean yeah, she obviously, soone of the moments in the book
that we didn't talk about thereis this massive landslide and ca
collapse that happens in KentonHill like halfway through the
book.
Mm-hmm.
And as an earth charmer, Nina isable to get into the mine, save

(46:37):
the men who are there, and alsohalt the landslide, which saves
countless lives.
I think like only four peopleend up dying.
So she does this really bigthing for the village or for the
town.
Right.
And really puts her in the goodgraces of everyone, including
Patrick.
Yeah.
So she does.
Save people.
So maybe she's a canary in thatsense and that she saved lives

(46:57):
and the canaries save lives by,you know, singing or not singing
in the minds.
Yeah.
But I, I think that's maybe abit of a stretch for

Kelsey (47:04):
me.
I, I don't, it's the theory Isaw today.
And I was curious what youthought about it.
I don't remember the canaries Ididn't pay super, like good
attention to the canaries.
Sure, yeah.
Personally, I

Amanda (47:16):
didn't either.
I especially because for me itwas like, oh, like this is just
part of.
Mining.
Right?
That's just a common factor.
Yeah, maybe.
So I didn't think anything'slike significant of it.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
But who knows?
You know?
I know authors love to havelittle Easter eggs and symbols
everywhere.
Yes.
But there were a couple ofthings I didn't like, like minor
things.
Oh, okay.
I wanted to talk about one isthe cover for this book.

(47:39):
Show us the cover show.
One of the rea So here's thecover again for folks watching
on YouTube.
It's love it's love it.
It's like a, it's like a vial.
Yes.
Of idiom, right?
Yes.
And it's, you know, got lots ofswirly things.
It's purple and blue.
It's like iridescent, but itvery much looks like the cover
of a cheesy y fantasy novel.
And I was very much judging thisbook by its cover.

(48:00):
Yes.
And I was like, this is gonna beso stupid because this looks so.
I don't know, one poorly done.
It looks like it was like clipart and two, oh my

Kelsey (48:09):
gosh.
It does not.
I, yes it does.
And two absolutely disagree.
And two

Amanda (48:14):
is that now that I've read the book and know how deep
and gritty and complex and, andjust like the gravity of this
story, this cover does not do itjustice.
It doesn't, like if you look atit, you think it's gonna be this
like fun little fantasy rompthrough I don't know, through,
through a teenager's mind.
And it's not that at all.

(48:35):
And so I do think if they, youknow, put out another addition
of this book, I hope theychanged the cover.
'cause I feel like.
It really doesn't give you agood indication of what the book
is about.
It doesn't at all.
The second thing that I didn'tlike, and, I don't wanna be like
a super judgy, but judge, I wascurious about her choice of

(48:57):
having Patrick be a cigarettesmoker.
Like it was very unusual.
It is 2025 and I'm like, notthat people don't smoke and not
that characters can smoke.
Like I wanna, I don't wanna belike the cigarette police, but I
just, I just thought it was ainteresting choice.
And maybe it's adding to thatlike gritty.
Yeah.
You know, blue collar I don'tknow, vibe she was going for.

(49:20):
Mm-hmm.
But I think we got that withoutthe addition of him also being a
cigarette smoker and Yeah.

Kelsey (49:26):
Maybe.
Yeah, I just, but I do think,like you were saying, like it
does.
Lend itself to that idea.
Patrick has had a really hardlife.
He has.
He, he hasn't had an easy life.
Yeah.
And of course he's gonna havethis addiction, right?
And he's like fighting it whileNina's around and it's it's
hilarious to me.

Amanda (49:46):
But it's also weird, the right, because he, so the bluff
I was talking about, people getaddicted to it.
It has healing powers, but alsomakes you feel good, et cetera.
And it can have reallydetrimental effects.
His brother is addicted toBluff, actually.
It's been like wreaking havoc onhis marriage.
And so I think it's interestingthat we see Patrick who has an
addiction to cigarettes, whothen is turning around and
getting on his brother's casefor having this addiction of

(50:08):
Bluff.
We also see him really goingafter Bluff dealers and dealing
with them very harshly.
Yeah.
Whether it's like beating'em upor like giving them really shit
jobs to do, or like tellingthem, it's like all of this
stuff, he is like, you're doinga bad thing.
Like you're getting people tomm-hmm.
Take this substance, which isharming them.
And I'm like, yeah, but you'realso regularly smoking
cigarettes.

(50:28):
And again, I don't know if thisworld, maybe cigarettes there
don't have nicotine and don'tharm your health.
I don't know.
But it was just such a weirdchoice.
It felt very hypocritical forhim to be like, yeah, you
shouldn't be smoking bluff, butI'm gonna smoke a stick.
You know?
Smoke a not smoke.
Yeah.
Whatever.
Smoke a pack a cigarette today.
I almost said smoke a 12 pack.
I'm like, 12 pack is like forbeer.
What am I talking about?
But yeah, I just, I, I thoughtthat was a weird choice, that's

(50:50):
all.
It's not a huge thing.
I just was like, yeah.
Like interesting.
I mean like,

Kelsey (50:54):
I don't love that aspect.
Yeah.
But to me it made sense.
Yeah.
For his character.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And also like cigarette smokingand like what they say about
Bluff is very different.
Right?
Like the impacts.
Of it are very different, butyeah.
Mean still an addiction look isworse,

Amanda (51:14):
but it's still an addiction and body.
But also, wasn't his brotherlike

Kelsey (51:17):
beating his wife

Amanda (51:18):
and that was the issue?
Wasn't that the issue?
No.
No, I don't think, no.
Okay.
He wasn't beating her, but hewas just like absent.
Right.
He beat going off on these likebluff binges.
And then the two other thingswere one, I mean, it's fair,
it's a fair, fair that youdidn't like that.
Yeah.
But I agree with you that Ithink it fits his character.
It wasn't like, oh yeah, hischaracter would never do that.
I was like, oh, I don't, I don'tthink it was necessary.
Then, you know how I feel abouttypos.

(51:39):
There were two typosspecifically that bothered me.
One was the glasses sailed,overheard instead of overhead.
And then she has these twosentences that she ended with
question marks that weren'tquestions.
And that drove me crazy.
So I marked that down.
So that was that really tiny.
I know.
And then the last thing thatdrives me crazy, and I know it's

(52:00):
a trope for romantic.
And romance novels too.
But more so in romantic is thatthere always has to be some sort
of ball slash dance slash partywhere the FMC has to get all
dolled up and a really hot dressand show up and have the guy
jewel all over her.

(52:20):
And I was hoping that wouldn'thappen'cause I'm like, oh,
they're in the middle offricking kitten hill.
Like this is not gonna happen.
There's not gonna be some likeball they have to dress up for.
But they did have this holidayparty and sure enough, she shows
up looking hot and Patrick's alllike, oh my god.
And Theodore's there and itcreates a lot of tension.
I'm just like.
I don't know.
It's fun.
It felt like that was thehottest

Kelsey (52:42):
part of the book.
Love dancing mean it was hot,but I tell Soad this all the
time.
I was like, if you learn todance, like I wouldn't need
anything else.
I wouldn't like dancing for melike is so fucking hot.
I don't know what it is.
But there, it wasn't even a sexscene, right?
No.
It was just like this dancingscene.
Yeah.
And I thought it was so

Amanda (53:01):
great.
Well, so done.
It was very well, it was verywell done.
I will give you that.
I was just more rolling my eyesif I could read one romantic
novel that doesn't have a ballslash dance slash party, that
would be fine.
That'd be cool.
I would, I would love to see,we'll find that him do something
else.
But it was, I did appreciate thescene.
Like I, I enjoyed it.
I was like, oh, this is verysexy.
Yeah, and I love that Patrick.

(53:23):
Told her that he doesn't dance.
So she assumed that he couldn'tdance.
Then he was actually like areally good dancer.
And I was like, that's, that'scool.
Shut up.
Shut up.
Yeah.
But that was pretty much it.
I think the only other smallthing was I thought it was so
stupid that scribbler werecalled scribbler.
I, this such a stupid thing.
It sounds so silly.
Like really I don't know, callthem word charmers because
everyone else is like a watercharmer, an earth charmer,
whatever.

(53:43):
Yeah.
And they just have this oneword, like scribbler I don't
know.
But no, overall I was very muchtaken with it.
I love that.
You know, there was some, youknow, there were lgbtq plus
characters included withProfessor Dunley and like Donny.
There was a blind character.
There was a blind character aswell.
One of the brothers which I,yeah.
Donny.
Yeah.
Which is Donny.
Yeah.

(54:03):
And there was at least one.
Character of color that waslike, specifically mentioned,
which was Polly, which Iappreciated that.
At least but yeah, I, I spedthrough this book one'cause it
was, you know, short and largetext, but also'cause I was like,
oh my gosh this is so good.
I'm having a great time and I'mannoyed that you had me read a
book for a series that is notfinished because now I'm waiting

(54:25):
for freaking AAR and now I'mwaiting for this book and I
don't like it.
I, that is, that is not how Ilike to read,

Kelsey (54:31):
embrace, and the pain.
Embrace the pain.

Amanda (54:34):
No, because I have a really bad memory and I'm gonna
have to like either go back andreread these books or find a
really detailed summary before Iget into the next one.
Or

Kelsey (54:42):
listen to our summary beforehand.
There you go.
Yeah.
But this,

Amanda (54:46):
but this summary was also not super detailed, but I
guess it'll be enough to trigger

Kelsey (54:51):
Yeah.

Amanda (54:51):
The things, your memory of it.
Come on.
Yeah, that's true.
All right.
I'm gonna use, and that's whatother people can

Kelsey (54:56):
do when.
You get to the, the second book?
Yes.
Come back

Amanda (55:00):
and listen to this.
Give it another

Kelsey (55:01):
listen.
And you'll remember the otherthing too.
I saw interviews of her.
She already has the second bookwritten.
It was written alongside, Ithink book one.
And she already has it done butfor editing purposes, you have
to wait for a specific amount oftime to release.
I think the third release bookis done too, actually.
Oh, really?
Is that new?
If you go

Amanda (55:21):
on, if you go on Good Reads, it has all three of them
listed.
Like I was, because I was onGood Reads this morning,
obviously like getting, hold on,I'll look it up right now.
No,

Kelsey (55:31):
I don't know that that's the case.
It just, there is a book too andthere's gonna be a book through
and we know it's gonna be atrilogy.

Amanda (55:38):
But I feel, I don't know that they, no.
Yeah, it has the date.
It is, it's gonna get, well, Idunno if it's written, but the
publishing date is June 30th,2027.
Oh yeah.
That's what I'm saying.
And a lot of times if it's notwritten that won't even be on
good reads.
They just won't have anything.
Oh, okay.
I see.
So I think she might have eitherstarted writing it or it might
be finished and they're like,okay.
You know, it's it's ready to go.

(56:00):
It's just like waiting for, youknow, if

Kelsey (56:01):
I could get an arc of this second book,

Amanda (56:04):
oh,

Kelsey (56:04):
I would be so excited.

Amanda (56:05):
You should try and do that.
You can put in a, she was givingthem

Kelsey (56:09):
For the first book.
Oh, okay.
But I didn't know it was comingout until I saw one of her
random videos this summer and Iwas like, wait, what the fuck?
Yeah, she's a writer.
I was like, I have to read

Amanda (56:17):
this book.
And so cool.
Because I think the next one'scoming out this summer or next
summer.
Next summer, yeah, next summer.
So if we could get StacyMcGowan, if you've found this
podcast, hello, because it's sopopular and we love you, would
you perhaps consider,

Kelsey (56:37):
consider, consider giving us, consider sending us
an arc.
We would.

Amanda (56:40):
They grateful one for each of us.
Yes, we would promote, we'dpromote the shit out of this
book for you.
Yeah.
We'll let the shit outta it.
Oh, okay.
Any final thoughts on aforbidden alchemy before we get
to our

Kelsey (56:54):
reviews?
I just cannot wait for the nextbook.
I'm so excited.
This actually, this is one of myfavorite parts of reading
because I used to never do thisor read along with books as they
come out.
Mm.
I love the anticipation and thenlike the hype.
Yeah, the hype and then thecommunity also community that
gets around it.
Yeah.
When Onyx Storm came out, I waslike, oh my gosh, this is so

(57:15):
new.
I've never done this before.
Oh, okay.
And so that's really exciting.
I love doing that.
I love that aspect.
This is,

Amanda (57:22):
yeah, a new territory for me.
'cause I, this is, I don't dothis.
So, yeah.
I guess at least Misery lovescompany.
There's a lot people boat, so

Kelsey (57:30):
we're all miserable together.
That's,

Amanda (57:31):
that's, yeah, we're all stuck in this together.
Okay, well, let's do ourliterally the best or literally
the worst.
That's really the worst.
Even though I liked this book, Iwill be doing one star reviews
that I found which I'm justcurious what people are saying.
Yeah, I mean, it's probablyfunny.
I'm guessing there's, there's,yeah, there's some common themes
that have come up, which I don'tfully agree with, obviously, but
we'll get to those.
I guess I'll start, yes.
Since I've got the one star.

(57:53):
And this one I did edit a bitbecause this person did have a
section where they were like,here are the positive things I
liked, and then here are thethings I didn't, so I just Okay.
Cut out the positive so we couldfocus on the things I didn't
like.
So, okay.
This is from, I believe it'sChristie one and a Half Stars.
Three crying face emojis.
Mm-hmm.
I have deep regrets picking thisbook up.

(58:13):
Number one, I found the wholepremise the way the world and
the society is set up justcompletely fundamentally flawed,
and the actions of essentiallyall characters throughout this
book lacked common sense.
Number two, the plot had a lotof plot holes.
There was a twist that justdidn't make sense.
Given that we followed Nina froma first person, POV, I actually

(58:34):
think it would've been good ifeverything was just in third
person.
To be honest, the rest of it waspredictable from basically
chapter two.
Number three, the maincharacters had no depth.
I felt zero emotion towardsthem.
The side characters were justthere to serve a specific
function, and number four feltno chemistry between the love
interest.
This is a love triangle, butit's so superficial.

(58:55):
I feel like I as a reader had toconstantly fill in the gaps of
what happened off the page forit to be remotely believable.
The book ends on the cliffhangeryet I just don't care what
happened next and won't bereading the next book.
Wow.
I like disagree with pretty mucheverything she said, but i, I
appreciate your thoughts,Christie.
I, for your opinions, definitelyheads depth.

(59:17):
I thought there was definitelychemistry.
I think the plot twist she'stalking about is the fact that
we don't find out until muchlater that Nina has been working
for the artisans.
And that did take me aback,especially because we do have a
first person POV, but as someonewho likes thrillers and someone
who's used to having unreliablenarrators, I think it didn't

(59:37):
bother me as much.
Yeah.
That it wasn't revealed untillater Uhhuh.
And it obviously had to workthat way, I think.
Mm-hmm.
For the plot to work.
So,

Kelsey (59:47):
and I didn't feel like.
It was a big issue.
It always felt like she washiding stuff.
Yeah.
It didn't feel like everythingwas out on the page.
Yeah.
I read another book that wasromantic and it felt the
opposite where you're in herhead the entire time and it felt
like she had been like layingeverything out.

(01:00:07):
And then the last five pages waslike a complete twist.
It didn't make, that didn't makesense.
Oh, yeah.
So, I see the difference betweenthe two and this one from a
forbidden alchemy felt way morerealistic than the one that I
read.
Okay.

Amanda (01:00:23):
Yeah.
I don't, I don't mind theunreliable narrator twist as
long as the reason for thembeing unreliable makes sense.
Mm-hmm.

Kelsey (01:00:31):
Yeah.

Amanda (01:00:31):
And it's not like, oh, I just pulled this outta my ass at
the last minute.
You know what I mean?
Right.
Yeah, exactly.
Yeah.
Okay.

Kelsey (01:00:37):
Well thank you.
You're welcome.
Christie, was

Amanda (01:00:40):
it?
Yes, Christie.
I don't know why I said you'rewelcome.
I did not write that review.

Kelsey (01:00:44):
Thank you for reading it, Amanda.

Amanda (01:00:46):
Oh, you're so welcome.

Kelsey (01:00:48):
Okay.
I have five star reviews todayand all of them are longer.
There, there are no one sentenceOkay.
Reviews that I have.
So, five star from millennialmom reading.
Hmm.
This book is stunning.
The twists and turns, themorally gray cast of characters,
the unique Magic System, theconspiracy, hands down, one of

(01:01:10):
my favorite mmcs and a reallywell developed and complex FMC.
The found family aspect of thisboth enveloped me and broke me.
If you want to be devastated,but in a really satisfying way.
This is it for you.
I think it may be among one ofmy Top Reads series ever, which
is a high bar.

Amanda (01:01:30):
Yeah.
We didn't talk about the foundfamily aspect, but it's
definitely a really big part ofthis.
Yeah.
Because especially Nina, shedoesn't have a good relationship
with her dad.
Yeah.
And her mom vanished, right?
Yeah.
So she very much throughout thenovel is searching.
Mm-hmm.
For connection, searching forcommunity.

(01:01:50):
And I think it's another reasonwhy I loved Kenton Hill.
'cause it's like, ugh.
Yeah.
You found a home and you foundpeople who care about you and
Yeah.
Know.

Kelsey (01:01:58):
Yeah.
And also, even though you cantell she's not in love with
Theo, it makes sense for theirpairing because she literally
was alone.
Yeah.
She had this fake aunt and thenhim.
Yeah.
And that was pretty much itthrough like the, her time in
the artisan world.

Amanda (01:02:13):
Yeah.
'cause she wasn't even reallythat close with Polly.
Like they bonded over being theoutcast, but Polly's mm-hmm.
Quite a minor character,especially at the beginning.
Mm-hmm.
So yeah.
You see her like trying to findconnection throughout?
Okay.
Next up is Fatima.
This book had a main characterwho wanted to stay neutral in
war, where one side was verymuch oppressed.
She had a rare and powerfulpower, but didn't want to use it

(01:02:36):
to help the rebellion becauseshe didn't want to hurt
civilians.
She was born and raised amongthe oppressed side.
She watched people diethroughout her life because of
the actions and laws made by theartisans, but wanted to stay
neutral because she didn't wantinnocent people to die.
Are we really having thisargument in this day and time?
And what the hell was thatending?

(01:02:56):
I, yeah, I, I, IS hmm.
I can understand this person'sfrustration, but I also don't
agree with it.
Mm-hmm.
I think it's what we talkedabout in our conversation where
Stacey McCuen is grappling withthe nuance of conflict and the
nuance of both sides.
Yeah.
And the humanity on both sides,and good and bad choices made on

(01:03:17):
both sides.
And that's not to say one sideis free of all wrongdoing or one
side it isn't like it, it's notthat simple.
And I think it's complex.
This person wants it to be thatsimple.
Yeah.
And I don't think it

Kelsey (01:03:27):
is.
And that's part of the reasonwhy Nina is stuck in the middle.
Right.
'cause she doesn't want to harmpeople.
Yeah.
No matter what.
Exactly.
But she's being, blackmailed.
And she's being forced to like,make a decision, but she doesn't
wanna make the decision.
And that's the struggle.
Yeah,

Amanda (01:03:46):
exactly.
Yeah.
Because either white people aregonna be harmed either way.
People are gonna die.
Right.
And so there is, yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Because actually, really quicklythere was one other quote.
That ties directly to this.
And this is Polly talking toNina about their situation.
'cause again, they're bothartisans who have, have been
recruited by the minors.
Mm-hmm.
And are working against theartisans, but not really.

(01:04:07):
And she goes, quote, we're stuckbetween two guns now.
That's all there is to it.
And it's so true.
Like they're really stuckbetween a rock and a hard place.
And it's not as simple like thisis the right choice.
This is the wrong choice.
So,

Kelsey (01:04:17):
exactly.
And that's why Nina doesn't tellPatrick, because she doesn't
know if she's gonna be killed ornot.
Yeah.
'cause of her betrayal.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Okay.
Another five star from Chalene'sLibrary.
Ugh.
I'm so stressed, genuinelyfeeling ill by the end of this
book.
I love Patrick Colson so much.

(01:04:39):
It's truly unhealthy.
How much I love him.
Is he a bit morally great?
Yes, but I feel like warwarrants that.
Or maybe I'm excusing badbehavior.
Do I care?
No.
I love the Colson family somuch.
I know Gunner sucked, but hestarted growing on me and I love
Donnie.
So.

(01:04:59):
Theo, on the other hand, themost annoying man in the world,
he a hundred percent calls hisdad daddy in his mid twenties.
I was done with this shit.
And Nina, I know she was in aprecarious situation, but she
didn't handle it well.
I really hope for groveling andredemption in Book two.

(01:05:20):
Laugh out loud.

Amanda (01:05:22):
I mean, yeah, she should have made different choices for
sure.
But one of the things I guess wedidn't mention either is that
Donnie and So Gunner's the olderbrother, Donnie's younger.
Yeah.
And both of them have also takenidiom as well, and so they also
have powers to Oh yeah, yeah.
We didn't mention that, I waslike, who's the other brother's
name?
That was Gunner.
But yeah, they all all taken it.

(01:05:42):
Yeah, there he is.

Kelsey (01:05:42):
There was something And has the mom, do you remember?
No.
Did the mom, the mom, the momhasn't,

Amanda (01:05:46):
no.
I At least it

Kelsey (01:05:47):
didn't say

Amanda (01:05:48):
in the book that she has.

Kelsey (01:05:48):
Yeah, it's okay.
Possibly.
This is my, oh wait, but Iwanted to talk about, oh gosh.
Because we didn't really talkabout Theo that much.
I'm like, we didn't, we skimmedover

Amanda (01:05:58):
him.

Kelsey (01:05:59):
What, what were your takes on Theo?

Amanda (01:06:01):
I mean, again, we're looking at this love triangle,
right?
So of course you have themorally gray brooding dude,
right?
Mm-hmm.
And then you have the goldenboy, and like Theo very much is
the golden boy in the triangle.
He's the son of this highranking official, you know, he's
wealthy, he's good looking.
He's got powers

Kelsey (01:06:17):
has a daddy.
I,

Amanda (01:06:18):
he has a, he has a daddy.
I, by the end of the novel, Ifelt that Theo did some work
towards redeeming himself in myeyes.

Kelsey (01:06:27):
Hmm.

Amanda (01:06:27):
Okay.
Yes.
He made poor choices as they allhave to be clear.
Yes.
And he does, at the end, makechoices that are better.
And that's the thing with humanswe can always change, we can
always do better.
I think there's always room forforgiveness and redemption and,
and I am more inclined to likesomeone who can own up to their
bad things and choose to dobetter.

(01:06:49):
Like that to me is huge.
Like mm-hmm.
And so I actually, that's thepoint of

Kelsey (01:06:53):
storytelling.
Yeah, exactly.

Amanda (01:06:54):
And so I actually am, like, I am, I'm feeling better
about Theo.
And while I still don't wantNina to end up with him,
depending on how his charactercontinues to evolve, it might be
okay.
Especially if Patrick ends updying.

Kelsey (01:07:10):
Ooh,

Amanda (01:07:11):
yeah.

Kelsey (01:07:11):
Ooh.
I'd

Amanda (01:07:12):
be, I'd be okay with it.
You don't like that idea?
But I could see, I, I couldactually see it working.
And if she does it right, Ithink it would actually.
I would be okay with it.
It wouldn't be like perfect, butI think it could actually work
really well.
Wow.
Yeah.
Anyhow, okay,

Kelsey (01:07:28):
let's move on.

Amanda (01:07:29):
This one is my longest one Then.
My last one's pretty short, so,okay.
This is from Catherine.
Seeing all the significantlyhigh rating reviews through good
reads and struggling to find apoor one made me hopeful for
this one.
However, whilst who says, whilstanymore, whoever, whilst the
storyline itself may beintriguing, I just couldn't get
past the writing style no matterhow much I persevered for one,

(01:07:51):
the FMC was written in.
First, whilst the MMC waswritten in third with no obvious
reason for why this was done,and just for clarification, she
means point of view.
Yeah.
Swapping between these twostyles with each chapter was
really jarring.
I then became confused as to whothe target demographic for this
was.
It's described as being aromantic, but the main

(01:08:11):
characters are 12 years old.
This confused me for a book withchildren.
It was written like it was foran older demographic based on
the vocabulary alone, and thenthe chapter time jumps started
with each chapter.
Skipping a year ahead, and thisis where I drew the line and
decided this wasn't for me.
I couldn't immerse myself in thecharacters and their journeys
with a constant time jumps andbeing introduced to the MMC.

(01:08:33):
And then his chapters droppingoff as soon as they appeared and
decided I wasn't going to readanymore.
I feel like if she had readmore, she probably would have
just a little more.
Yeah, because it's not about 12year olds for one.
Yeah.
I was like, okay, they're 12year olds for one fifth,

Kelsey (01:08:50):
one sixth of the book and then it's all adults.
This is why I never writereviews for books.
I-D-N-F-I don't think you shouldanything.
Yeah,

Amanda (01:08:58):
because someone so much can change.
Yeah, if you, if you like dnf at80% maybe, but if you're DN fing
at 30%, don't you?
You can't, I don't know.
That's, that's my opinion.
I agree with that.
There's so much that couldchange your thoughts.
Not that you shouldn't DNF at30%, just don't write a review.
Review'cause it's not reflectiveof the book itself.
I will say this, so a lot ofpeople.

(01:09:20):
Commented in the one starreviews that they hated the jump
between first and third personpoint of view.
Mm.
And it's funny because like,didn't even notice it didn't
even phase me.
And in my mind it justsolidified, okay this really is
Nina's story.
Like yes, Patrick's storymatters.
And he's also essential.
But it helped, I don't know,frame the narrative more fully

(01:09:40):
from one protagonist versus two.
And I think that's why she choseto do Nina with First Person and
Patrick mm-hmm.
Through third, just to reinforcethat for the audience.
Nina is still the primary Yeah.
Protagonist, you know, and notPatrick.
And maybe the next book it'llflip flop.
Who knows?
You know, maybe it'll be Yeah.
Patrick first person, but itdidn't bother me.

(01:10:01):
But a lot of people, a lot ofpeople hated that.
So,

Kelsey (01:10:04):
that comes up often where people are talking about
third and first, POV.

Amanda (01:10:09):
Mm-hmm.

Kelsey 2.0 (01:10:10):
I, I couldn't tell you if it was switching.
Yeah.
I'm just, I just, that's notsomething I pay attention to.
I'm just like looking for thedetails of what's going on.
Mm-hmm.
So, yeah, that never, neverbothers me.
Yeah.
Never.
Something I'm harping on.
Okay.
This is from Ka Herring her, I'msorry, Kevin Hering.

(01:10:33):
Okay.
Sometimes these names are thetricky, the rest for a loop.
Okay.
Well currently Googling how togive a book more than five stars
on good reads because a measlyfive here is feeling too thin.
It's not enough.
It is true.
disservice to the story.
I just finished.

(01:10:53):
So if you are here and you'rereading this review, know that
it is not as honest as I wish itwas.
There should be.
Five more lit up stars.
Next to the first set, Staceyhas crafted a Peaky Blinders
meets PanAm world.
Okay.
Hello?
I'm screaming when I tell you.

(01:11:14):
This book is a masterpiece fromthe impeccable writing to the
painfully yearning romance tothe twists, turns, and
betrayals.
And would it even be a Ewen bookwithout heart shattering
betrayal?
I genuinely hope and pray thisbecomes a TV show because the
world and story were sobrilliantly executed.

(01:11:35):
It be a crying shame for it notto be.
I actually agree with that.
That could be really cool.
Well done if it's well done.
Wait,

Amanda (01:11:43):
I wait.

Kelsey (01:11:44):
What would be really cool?
A movie or a series.
Oh, okay.
Sorry.
I

Amanda (01:11:48):
like blanked for a second.
'cause I was looking up.
Peaky Blinders online because I,I know the show, but I've never
watched it.
And I was like, I wanna know whyshe chose, or this person, they
chose this as the comparison,but it's like a street gang in
England in the 1880s.
I'm like, yeah, that bookdefinitely gives the vibes,
especially when they're inKenton Hill.

Kelsey (01:12:05):
I saw that multiple times in the reviews.
I was looking at Peaky Blinders,like references.
Oh, I wonder if it like,

Amanda (01:12:11):
influenced, influenced the characters in the town.
Could be.
I could see that.
I would love

Kelsey (01:12:16):
this to be a series.

Amanda (01:12:18):
Oh, for sure.
Absolutely.
And I think when it's completed,I could see, I mean, maybe
someone's already scooped up theright, who knows?
But I could definitely see that.
Okay, last one.
Star review.
It's pretty short.
This is from Amber Slow Burn.
Where?
Romantic.
Where Ins Love first person, POVto suddenly third person, POV.
One moment she said, let's dropthe pretense.

(01:12:40):
I have been living a life fullof luxury.
On the next page, she'sdisgusted, he's punching a guy,
doing bad things in the town.
He had warned the guy previouslythat he's taken care of.
Make it make sense.
FMC is a hypocrite.
Weak-minded, unreliable.
Damn.

Kelsey (01:12:57):
I mean, she is unreliable.

Amanda (01:12:58):
She definitely is unreliable.
That's not a bad thing.
Story, I guess.
I dunno that she's weak-minded,but I think the flip-flopping is
because she's in a trickysituation.
So I think any person mm-hmm.
Would be like, what the heck doI do?
I don't think that makes youweak minded.
Weak minded.
Maybe there are moments ofhypocrisy, but I don't know.
It just very human to me.
That's the thing.
Like I think sometimes when weread romantic, we want everyone

(01:13:20):
to be these, noble, upstanding,pure you know, morally sound
individuals and that's, I don'tlike that.
You know me.
I like messy characters.
I like morally great characters.
I like nuance.
Mm-hmm.
And so, I don't know.
I liked it.
I enjoyed it.

Kelsey (01:13:36):
Yeah.
Okay.
Well the final five star.
Review I have is from RABlossom.
I love Nina and Patrick.
Their chemistry was off thecharts.
They had the perfect balance ofbanter, tension, and quiet
yearning that had me clutchingmy chest and reading with my

(01:13:57):
feet in the air.
At 3:00 AM I'm honestly tooembarrassed to show my tabs
because it's just Patrick, POVlines.
And that betrayal devastatingtheir connection made it all hit
so much harder.
I can't wait to see how thefallout of that will play out in
book two.

(01:14:17):
The characters are where thisbook truly shines.
It's rare for me to be soinvested in the whole cast, but
these characters have my wholeheart.
I was all in for them.
Found family check, flaweddeeply human characters making
difficult decisions.
Check.
I genuinely don't want anythingbad to happen to any of them.

(01:14:38):
And that last 5% diabolicalStacey, how dare you leave me
hanging like that.
I didn't expect to be so heavilyinvested in the story and the
characters I loved every secondof it.
Catch me banging the gates forthe next book.
Don't sleep on this one like Ialmost did.

Amanda (01:14:57):
Yeah.
I concur and love those deeplyflawed human characters.
Like they really made the storywhat it is.
Yeah.
And yeah, the last God, the last5% of this book.
Totally agree.
Just whew.
Really takes it out of you anddestroys you.
Yeah.
In the best way possible,really.

(01:15:18):
But yeah.
If, yeah, if you are notnormally a romantic reader, I
think this could be a good bookfor you.

Kelsey (01:15:27):
Good gateway.

Amanda (01:15:28):
My final recommendation would be that I recommend, it
could be a really good gatewaybook because it's not sm heavy.
And like I said, the smut feelsearned, the characters are fully
three dimensional.
Mm-hmm.
There's a lot happening here.
Like it's not a shallow,superficial novel.
There's a lot that's gonna makeyou stop and question and think

(01:15:48):
there's crazy twists.
Yeah.
I just found it really relatableand could not put it down.

Kelsey (01:15:54):
Well said, Amanda.
Well said.

Amanda (01:15:56):
Thank you.
Thank you, thank you.

Kelsey (01:15:58):
I also, of course, recommend it.
Of course,

Amanda (01:16:01):
of course.
To anyone.
Of course, of course.
And now I can finally go back tomy good reads and give it the
four star rating that I wantedto.
Yeah.
So, wow.
Why is it not five Amanda?
I just, there's something, maybeI should give it five.
I just feel like something deepdown is like, you can't give a
romantic book five stars.
Oh my gosh.
But maybe I will, because I feellike I gave what is it?

(01:16:22):
I gave s aka I gave aka No, Igave five stars.
I think that's the only romanticbook I've ever given.
Five stars.
So maybe, maybe this will be thesecond one.
Let's see.

Kelsey (01:16:31):
Okay.
I think

Amanda (01:16:32):
on it, I'll have to ponder on it, but do you wanna
remind folks of our socials aswe wrap this up?

Kelsey (01:16:36):
Absolutely.
I, I've already been like reallythinking about how we'll promote
this book because it has to bein line with Stacey's humor.
It just has to be We'll, we'lltry our best.
And you need to go watch hervideos.
I'll, on the book, I'll, I'llput it on my tv.
Go do it.
And I think that's the only waywe'll get her attention.
So, hi Stacy, like to you.
I just like tag her andeverything.

(01:16:58):
Tag her and everything and belike, send us an arc, please.
Yes.
Okay.
So yes, come find us on socialmedia.
We will be having a blast withthis one.
Mm-hmm.
On Instagram at Live Vibes Onlypodcast and on TikTok and
YouTube at Live Vibes onlypodcast.
So yes, come have fun with us.
Come on over, come on over.

Amanda (01:17:21):
And then of course, don't forget to rate and review
as always.
Now that we're at the very endof our episode, as soon as you
hear that outro music ding, justgo back into your app, hit that
five star rating.
If you've got an extra minute,type out a quick sentence saying
how much you're enjoying thepodcast and you can do your
little Thanksgiving deed for themonth.

(01:17:42):
Passing it on.
Paying it forward.
Yes.
Paying it forward.
Exactly.
Exactly.
So thank you guys so much forhanging out with us.
Stay tuned.
'cause we'll definitely be doinganother episode when book two
comes out.
Oh my gosh, yes.
Cannot wait.
Otherwise, we'll see you nextMonday.
Bye.
Bye.

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