#14 Nick Greene Ralph Gracie San Francisco

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Episode Transcript

(00:00):
Welcome back to another episodeof Luckee's podcast, where
stories of grit, growth, andtransformation takes center
stage.
Today's guest is someone whoselife journey weaves through
continents, careers, andcountless jiu jitsu mats.
Meet Nick born in Seoul SouthKorea adopted at 18 months by an
Irish father and a Jewishmother, and raised on the East

(00:22):
Coast before planting roots inthe Bay Area.
Nick's pass hasn't been easynavigating a complicated family
dynamic, identifying as an Asianadoptee and the challenges of
growing up as an outsider.
But from early days of breakdancing and running track to
study neurobiology at UC Davisand becoming a police officer,

(00:45):
to now living and breathingBrazilian jiu jitsu.
Nick's story is nothing short ofdynamic.
We talk about personalevolution, what it means to be
grounded, to examine your pastand to find peace through
motion, whether it's flyingthrough the air paragliding,
floating in the flow of a roleor reconnecting with his Korean

(01:06):
roots after decades.
Nick has lived through chaptersthat many of us only read about,
stick around as we deep diveinto his journey of self
discovery, resilience, and thesurprising ways community shows
up when you least expect it.
So let's get started from thebeginning.

(01:27):
Nick, what do you remember aboutyour early childhood or the
stories you've been told aboutyour adoption?
Yeah, Renee, thanks for theintroduction and, thanks for
having me here.
I'd say early childhood, Iwould, I'd say it's very
vanilla.
I grew up in Massachusetts, inConnecticut, so I was in
Massachusetts in a small townwhere there's like a church

(01:48):
every few blocks from age oneand a half to five.
Pretty vanilla if you will.
And then Connecticut was thesame.
I remember, it's veryhomogenous.
So it was like probably 90%Caucasian.
I just think about that becausewhen we moved out, my family
moved out to California when Iwas 10.
I grew up in the Bay Area there,and it's just really diverse.

(02:09):
You know, um, just meet peopleof different ethnicities and
cultures, so it stood out.
Okay.
What was it like, growing upover there?
What did you do as a child?
In the East Coast or in the EastCoast?
East Coast.
Let's start there.
I think I did soccer.
My dad was like pretty involvedwith my life sports wise.
So I did AYSO soccer.

(02:31):
It was more like a really, anoutdoor kid biked a lot.
And, it was pretty simple timesthen.
I didn't really get into likemore like hobbies that I was
really into until maybe likemiddle school, high school.
Okay.
What was it like growing up as aKorean adoptee in a white
household on the east coast?
So my parents were really goodabout being colorblind, quote

(02:52):
unquote, they never made me feelany different.
they treated me like, a like ablood son, So internally in the
household it was fine.
I think a lot of Asianadolescents run into this in the
United States where, you know,because they're different, they
get called names or, they can bea little bit ostracized.

(03:15):
Yeah.
I just remember.
I think it was like elementaryschool some kid called me a flat
face.
I got called a gook.
And then, getting angry or, likethat, triggering me.
It would lead to a fight.
The funny thing also is that Idid an adoptee related podcast
and it was a live podcast withlike maybe 80 or 90 adoptees in

(03:37):
the room in the audience.
And then when I shared the storyI'm sharing with you now, I said
everybody, if anyone's had anytype of experience like that,
raise your hand.
And there is 15 or 20 peoplethat raise their hand.
So Oh yeah.
It's a thing.
It's a thing that we have tolike navigate but that was when
I was really young.
Yeah, I can imagine.
Yeah.
Do you know anything about yourbiological family or where you

(04:00):
came from, or the adoptionagency.
Yeah.
These, great questions.
So I went through Holt AdoptionAgency.
They're a really major one thatdid a lot of adoptions in South
Korea.
there's a few of'em.
There's like Eastern Society,Social Welfare, KSS.
And for myself, there reallywasn't much on my file.
I think there was a note.

(04:21):
Apparently I was found on like afancy apartment complex with a
note.
Like in a basket that said momand dad can take care of him.
Please find him a good home.
and that was basically all theinformation I had.
So a lot of adoptees end uptrying to find their birth
family.
And there's, you know, basicallyyou can do, 23 and me, you can

(04:43):
go through the agency and thensee what they have on records.
So I did what most adoptees dois you go to Korea, you go to
the agency, you do a filerequest to look up like what's
on file.
And some of them there is stuffon their file, some of them
there isn't.
There really wasn't anyadditional information on mine.
I did a search though.
I went with a volunteer.
We went to my home city.

(05:05):
There's different methods tolike, cast your net to try and
find your birth family, right?
So I basically did as much asyou could and didn't really
yield too much results.
And then, it, this could go to avery different tangent, but
basically there, there's a hugeissue now with, falsification of
records with adoption agencies.

(05:27):
Currently there's a truth andreconciliation committee.
Which is part of, the Koreangovernment, which is doing like
an investigation into this.
So this is like actually goingon right now.
Oh, wow.
That's great.
The adoptee community, which, ispretty large in and of itself.
Like everyone's watching andseeing what happens.
That's going on right now.
Oh, okay.
Yeah.
We'll get into that later.

(05:48):
Yeah.
Yeah, sure.
But I'm really glad that they'redoing something about it.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It's fingers crossed.
How would you describe yourrelationship with your dad
growing up?
Yeah.
I think, my dad, I was prettyfortunate.
I think my father had a lot oftraits that make for a good
father.
He was involved in sports.
He spent a lot of good qualitytime with me.

(06:08):
I actually remember I got intojogging'cause of him, like when
we were, when I was in highschool, we used to jog together.
When he was, when he got off ofwork.
He is like a big supporter of meas a person.
There's like little things likeyou remember when you're young.
So when I was in middle school,he used to take me to the comic
book shop and he'd give me like$20 like every other week or

(06:29):
something.
It was basically to encourage meto, read.
I wasn't a big reader, so bydoing comics, like he's like,
oh, Nick will read more.
Right?
But it's more picture, you know,like I'm more into the comics
and the pictures.
But yeah, it was him encouragingme to, I guess get into my
creative side.
So yeah, he was always a bigsupporter of what he did.
And also like he was a person,not of many words.

(06:50):
So I remember we go jogging.
I'd ask him like, all thesequestions on life, like, how
should I save?
And, do you have any advice forcareers?
And what I wanna be when I growup?
And he didn't really say much,he just, but what I like is he
kept it open.
He was just like, whatever youdo, I support you.
Whereas I feel like somefathers, they might be like, I'm
a lawyer, so you have to be alawyer or something like that.

(07:11):
Driving you to be what they wantyou to be or what they wanna
create you to be.
Exactly.
Or projecting.
So he was really good about justlike letting me find my own
path.
Being supportive.
And at the time I was like, oh,I want him to give more
guidance, but in a way I'm like,he did.
He just, he's like, forge yourpath and I'm here to help you
however he can.
Wow.
He sounds like amazing dad.
He's a good guy.
Yeah.

(07:31):
Good.
Awesome.
You mentioned your mom hadstruggles with addiction.
How did that shape yourchildhood or the way you saw the
world?
Yeah, so it's a tough one'causeI talked to my dad about this,
but I also wanna respect hisboundaries'cause it's like he's
his own person and it's like themore I complained to him or you
know, like my issues with myadoptive mother, it's not fair

(07:55):
to him.
I think that's just something onmy mind of like where I'm at
now.
But to that anyways, backgroundon my mother.
She's a very loving person.
there are a lot of good warmtraits about hers, but I think
that she's plagued by likecertain issues with substance
abuse, alcohol abuse.
And it's tough because, itcompounds over time like, and

(08:17):
it's debilitating where it'slike, I could still remember in
maybe middle school where, she'dhide it, she'd drink, she just
not really take care of herself.
She also lacked as a caregiver,like a very functional,
statement of what a caregiverprovides.
And, I think it just got worseover time.
And it's like anything with anyof us where it's if you don't,

(08:39):
if you don't really understandhow to regulate yourself with
addiction, it can really get thebest of you.
And, like honestly, I've had,phases in my life where, I've
allowed for certain addictivetraits of mine to have too much
control over myself in my life.
And it's been that regulatory,like, how do I catch that and

(08:59):
what do I do about that?
But for my adoptive mother istough because, not to get in too
much detail, but she, there isonce or twice where, there's
alcohol poisoning or maybe toomany substances where, you know,
like ambulance was involved.
I remember I think when I was12, I think it was like middle
school, like I found her like onthe floor, like with vomit in

(09:22):
her mouth, passed out.
So it's like, you know, you'dclear her airway and then call
the ambulance, right?
I think, being at that age istough.
Most children shouldn't reallyhave to do that.
Yeah, they shouldn't have todeal with, situations like that.
That's pretty grown up,situation to be in.
Yeah.
So I think, on the topic withestrangement, it is been
challenging because like I've,you know, like it's not

(09:43):
overnight.
It's like I've tried to maintainrelations with her and make it
work, and it's just like arollercoaster gun.
Like it's.
It worked, but not reallyworked.
And then, she followed intopatterns again.
And then it just, it is actuallyreally detrimental on myself
because it's like we try andcompensate for that and make it
like, make the relationshipwork.
And I remember, there was like aThanksgiving where like, you

(10:07):
know, it's a podcast I know thisis public domain.
She made a Turkey.
I think my father did a lot ofthe other work for the other,
like parts of the Thanksgivingdinner.
And, she's drinking and I'm notquite sure what else.
And, she collapsed on the floor.
She was like, the Turkey fell onthe ground and I think it was
like, it was probably like acombination of like pills and

(10:29):
alcohol.
We had to carry her into bed andthe odd thing is that's not the
first time.
So I think like at some pointI'm like, I can't do this
anymore.
Right?
I had to make a consciousdecision to estrange myself from
her.
Right?
the bigger challenge is that,like my, I'm trying to, I.
My father wants us to get alongand I'm trying to tell him like,
this isn't normal and heunderstands it's not normal.

(10:51):
But he still wants us to like,like everyone wants like a happy
ending.
I'm like, well, the reality islike not everyone gets along and
not everything works out thatway, Yeah.
Do you think there was some,traumatic experience that your
mom fell into this?
Did she have a family?
that was the same way?
do you think?
Yeah.
you're basically touching ongenerational trauma.

(11:13):
Yeah.
Which is like carrying ontraumatic and, passing it on.
I'm not quite so one, Shedoesn't really talk about her
family much.
She's from a Jewish household.
There's trauma from Jewishpeople from, world War I, and
II, and other factors.
she was the youngest, of all hersiblings.
There's that sort of youngercomplex of like the runt of the

(11:35):
group.
And like apparently her olderbrothers.
Like there's physical and thenthere's the topic of emotional
abuse.
There wasn't any physical abuse,it sounds like there's emotional
abuse.
I just don't know to whatdegree.
I also sense that, when she'sgrowing up, she probably didn't
learn how to express ouremotions well, which is like

(11:56):
anger is anger's a tool, right?
It's not just like emotions havea purpose, like, for crying or
basically there's supposed to belike four core emotions, like
fear, anger, sadness, I forgotthe other, I dunno why I'm
blanking.
It's all right.
But the all serve a purpose,right?
there's a tool like, they're notjust.
To be there.
To be there.

(12:16):
And I think that she neverreally exercised them.
So what happens is if you don'treally address your issues or
take accountability foryourself, you, it's escapism and
you just continue to escape fromthings.
Yeah, it's a tough one, I'lljust simply put, I don't think
she wants to do the work oftrying to do internal work.
Whereas like everyone should, Ishould.
Yeah.
And I don't think that she hasthe tools to do it.

(12:38):
Okay.
So that kinda makes sense.
Okay.
Yeah.
You talked about your father,hiking and he did some pretty
amazing things.
Do you want to talk about that?
Sure.
Yeah.
It, he's a really.
Fascinating guy.
So he studied, he's a physicsPhD.
He's a super nerd.
I think, some other things abouthim, there's a period where he
would read five books a week, sohe would just shoot through

(13:00):
books.
I remember How cool.
Yeah, we would like hang out.
He'd be reading books all thetime.
A voracious reader.
I think he got bored during gradschool.
Like he did a puzzle like upsidedown, meaning like the cardboard
side, sort to challenge himself.
He used to, like hitchhike, Ithink from grad school, from
like Wyoming to Massachusetts.
And he'd tell me like, he like,oh yeah.

(13:22):
the people you meet is likefascinating.
He said once he met this likeold sort of leatherface guy.
He ended up being like anational rodeo champion in Texas
and my dad just conversed withhim like the whole trip.
How cool.
Yeah.
All these like really coolthings.
That's awesome.
Yeah, He hiked the AppalachianTrail, which is like 800 miles
north to south.

(13:42):
I think he was saying, oh, if Icould have done it over, I
would've done south and north.
'cause apparently it's easiergoing up than down it.
So I was like, okay, that's goodto know.
Yeah.
better on the knees.
Oh yeah.
but he was really, yeah, he justreally active person.
He just, he got me into ifyou're gonna do something, do it
all the way.
You know, like quote unquotelive life to its fullest.

(14:03):
But he just said, if you'regonna commit to something, like
us in jiu jitsu, just, pursuewith all the passion, Yeah.
Which I think I picked up fromhim.
And then I'm trying to thinkwhat else.
Oh yeah, he did run forpresident, but the whole reason
he did was, you could run as alesser known candidate.
And, it, his agenda wasbasically to promote a thorium,

(14:23):
which is like an alternativeenergy source that is like non
harm.
Like, you know, ecologicallyfriendly.
Kelly off Kelly off.
Sorry.
It's okay.
He's in the frame.
It's okay.
No worries.
I love, it's like this, a littlehead coming up.
Yeah, so any, anyway, it's likealternative energy source.
It's good for the environmentversus carbon, coal, nuclear

(14:45):
fission.
The whole purpose was to get itout there.
And I remember he went to aprimary debate in New Hampshire,
It was covered by like CNN, solike on somewhere on YouTube,
like he's on there with VerminSupreme.
If you ever look up VerminSupreme, it's like a, a, this
personality, joke, what do youcall it?
Like troll uhhuh.
and then what else?
He also was featured in TimeMagazine for that, for the

(15:06):
thorium.
Okay.
Good promotion.
So I think, yeah, just it isjust interesting, he thinks big
picture about like bettering theworld.
Yeah.
Yeah.
He sounds amazing.
It's very idealistic.
Yeah.
Yeah, man.
Love to sit down with him andhear some of his stories.
Yeah.
Yeah.
That'd be awesome.
Sure.
So let's go into your youth andadolescence.

(15:26):
Okay.
Is there anything else youwanted to touch in the area of,
your early years or, I think itwas like an angry kid, just, but
creative as well.
Like I, I did art a lot of, Iwas speaking into comics and
drawing.
I remember in high school, I wasbest dancer.
I was the break dancer, all thelike, prom, school dances, I
dance.

(15:47):
I remember I had like a promdate.
I was like doing like windmills.
I was all sweating.
I was like, and they're like,oh, I'm not gonna touch you.
I'm not gonna do because you'reall sweaty and fair enough.
And then, what else?
I did, I was a comic.
Oh.
I was an artist for our schoolnewspaper.
Uhhuh.
So I actually, kept theclippings of all like the art
pieces.

(16:08):
Yeah.
For like if there's like a frontpage thing, So definitely it was
into drawing and art, thoseperiods.
So yeah, it was just fun.
I think, looking back at highschool, I wouldn't go back,
wouldn't change anything.
I think I, experienced a lot of,studied hard, had a lot of fun.
Did my passions juggled itworked a lot at the same time.
And, oh, yeah, that's anotherthing.
I think, not sure if this isjust me or just like nature

(16:31):
nurture or just it's in my, it'sin my core.
I always worked, so like Iremember my first job,$5 an hour
was Baskin Robbins.
My first job was Baskin Robbins.
did lots of jobs throughout highschool and in my early twenties.
So Baskin Robbins, Noah Bagel ata Arco Gas station.
Nordstrom.

(16:51):
What else?
There's quite a few others.
Is it because you saw your dadas a good example, or do you
think it was because, you justwanted some extra money?
you just were a hustler?
Yeah, My dad's a workaholic, buthe never put that on me.
I never really saw that orthought about that.
I think it was in directly fromme.
oh, I want it, like I want tobuy things.
I need to make money for it.

(17:12):
And I remember, I got my first,oh, this, that's, this is
actually a good story.
So very goal driven.
Okay, so when I was a junior inhigh school, there was a kid
that was like a senior, or hejust graduated.
He went to UC, Santa Barbara.
He visited our school.
He came with a motorcycle tovisit a girl or his girlfriend.
Nice.
And I was like, oh, thatmotorcycle is so cool.
And I, I like, I want one reallybadly, right?

(17:34):
So during the summer I workedfour jobs at the same time to
get it.
So good for you.
So I made$5,000 to buy amotorcycle.
So when I turned 18, I boughtit, before college.
And the three months I rememberI worked, as a temp at a tech
company in Sunnyvale from eightto five.
And then from six to 10, Iworked at the gas station.

(17:55):
So two jobs.
Then on the weekend I worked atthe skate park.
And then I think, there'sanother job, oh, it was partial
during the summer, which was,they paid really well to do
janitorial services where it'slike you scrape gum off desks,
you, you scrub the toilets, butthey paid really well.
Yeah.
It was like, yeah.
20 an hour, but back in 90, 90nines, which is that's really

(18:18):
good.
Good.
Yeah.
That's good money.
Yeah.
So I worked like four jobsthroughout summer.
And I was, I remember it waslike from eight, maybe even
earlier,'cause of the janitorthing, but it was like from
eight to 10:00 PM every day.
But I saved it and so it waslike very goal driven.
Yeah.
I want a motorcycle.
I'm gonna save the money for it.
Yeah.
You're gonna get it.
Yeah.
Yeah.
That's great.
That's a good story.

(18:38):
Yeah.
Okay.
Were there any defining momentsin your childhood or teenage
years that stick with you today?
I'd say, oh, something thatstood out is, my dad said I have
a sense of justice.
And, I noticed that when I gotinto fights, usually it was
like, it's like I stood up thebullies and that was interesting

(19:03):
because the kid had called melike a gook or a flat face.
You know, like I got me angryand I fought back, or I said,
you can't talk to people thatway.
So to that point, another onewas, some friend of mine, like
he's beating out loud music likeat night, like near a friend's
house or something.
Or like his girlfriend orsomething.
And the older brother.

(19:25):
went outside and said likeyou're disrespecting, the
neighborhood and the noise.
And basically they got in anargument and led to a fight
where they're like, we'll meetat the library parking lot at
this time.
And basically like it's our crewof friends and that guy, and I
remember like when they werewalking to the grass area of the
parking lot, the guy suckerpunched my friend, oh no.

(19:48):
And I was like, oh.
So right away I ran up, Ipunched the guy.
I didn't like hit the groundlike hit, him in the stomach a
few times.
But it was like the same senseof like a cheap shot.
Hey, you can't do that.
And kind of, I guess, I don'tknow, punishing him, it was like
out of a little bit of anger.
Yeah.
So the sense of justice thingstood out.
'cause my dad said like thatstood out.
And then, I guess here's thatthing from childhood that like,

(20:10):
my take on that and my lesson isthat there are bullies in the
world and like they'll get awaywith it with a good amount of
people.
But my logic or my thought isthat a bully can do it to 10
people or nine out the 10people.
But there's always gonna be thatone person that's gonna stand
up.
Right.
Or like put them in their place.

(20:30):
And I always thought like, notthat it's me, but that's sort of
a the karmic way the world workswhere it's there's balance.
Absolutely.
Yeah.
So that, so I dunno if thatanswered your question on the
childhood thing, yeah.
That's something that you carryover.
Exactly.
Perfect.
Okay.
So since we were talking aboutbullying off camera, you
mentioned experiencing bullying.

(20:51):
How did that affect youridentity and how you handle
conflict?
Yeah, so I think, part of it'slike adolescence and, hormones
and all that stuff, navigatingthat when I was younger, I
actually remember in college, Iactually got arrested.
I was on my bicycle and somelady tried to merge in the lane
and it's like she cut me off andshe almost ran me off the road,

(21:13):
honestly.
Oh, no.
Like she was honking.
It was just the road rage thing.
But doesn't excuse what I did.
Eye for an eye or hate begetshate.
I actually sped and caught up toher the red light, and I was
like shouting at her.
It's you crazy, like blah, blah,blah.
are you stupid?
You almost hit me.
And I, I banged on her window.
And then so she, after thelight, she pulled into like a.

(21:34):
Like a strip mall and then callthe police.
And I was like, it's fine, I'llwait here and I'll tell my
story.
Because the police came and, shewas the one who called, like
that by default, I'm the suspectand she's the victim.
and what I mean is if I calledfirst, it would've been
reversed.
Right.
It would've started that way.
But basically, I got amisdemeanor charge, disturbing

(21:55):
the peace, got mandated, eventhough it was a cop, but it was
still a lesser offense.
And it's all in the records oractually it got expunged.
I think it was'cause I was like.
17, like 18 or something.
It was like right beforecollege.
Anyways, it got expunged, butlike court mandated anger
management.
And I guess here's my point.

(22:15):
When I went to anger management,everyone shared this story.
here's why I'm here's what Ineed to work on.
Uhhuh.
I heard stories and crazystories of why people there.
There was like a gang member waslike, yeah, I stabbed someone.
Like blah, blah, blah, not myproudest moment.
And I was like, I thought like Iwas like, wow, my thing is like
just road rage, right?
And then one of'em was a flightnurse where they were like a

(22:37):
helicopter and there was liketurbulence and it shifted and
then their elbow hit the patientand the patient thought I was on
purpose.
Oh.
And the flight nurse is I don'teven know why I'm here.
This wasn't on purpose, it wasjust like turbulence.
And I was like, oh my gosh.
And then another one was, therewas a woman from domestic
violence where and this is thefunny thing, and I totally
believe her.
Like her husband was abusive orhit her, bruises, all that.

(23:00):
And the one, and she's alwaysdone the thing where it's I
don't want trouble.
You She wouldn't start it.
She wouldn't.
Yeah.
And she, wouldn't really pursueit or she'd downplay it.
The one time that she likepushes back and hits him or
throws something, says like putsout on the boundary.
She calls the cops on her andthen she gets arrested.
Wow.
that's a jerk move.
Yeah, it is and it's I reallybelieve these people.

(23:20):
Then there were ones that werelike real, like they're just,
like they've like the gangmember.
It's like it's a straight upanger issue.
I think it made me realize, overtime as I got older, probably
like past 26 or 27, I realizedlike I actually don't really
have an anger problem or Ilearned how to navigate it, so I
don't really get angry anymore.
But at the time, I think it wasjust like youth or being in my

(23:40):
twenties, yeah.
I had a hot head.
I like everything personal.
Like after that, at some point Ilike matured.
And then also there are timeslike, like there's workplace
bullies where there are probablytimes where I probably should
have set a boundary or satsomeone aside and said, you, you
can't behave like that.
Or, that was inappropriate whatyou did, and I didn't.
Like I allowed it.
And that's also, it's almostlike a flip where I used to call

(24:04):
people out on their bullying orbad behavior.
And I remember there's like awoman in HR that was she's
definitely a bully.
She played mind games withpeople.
She exerted her power.
Sounds terrible.
Yeah.
oh.
She's very manipulative.
And the funny thing is she waslike that for me and I should
have called her out on it.
And they didn't.
Yeah.
'cause I was more like,corporate world.
I just wanna be a good worker.
Don't wanna Yeah.

(24:24):
Go with the flow.
Exactly.
You have to play the corporategame.
Yeah.
So you're right.
In that case, like I was like, Iwas playing the game too much
where I probably should've andthen other coworkers felt the
same But then there's like acoworker someone that worked
with me, and then she called herout on the behavior.
Like she filed a complaint.
Good.
Yeah.
So, you know, it's one of thosethings where I think the older I
got, I think I lost that becauseit's like you don't want to

(24:45):
cause waves.
You just want to do a good job,get your work done, and get the
heck out there.
You don't want, yeah.
You get it.
Yeah, I do.
Yeah.
I've had situations where I'vehad to navigate like that.
Yeah.
Yeah.
What drew you into sports andbreak dancing as a kid?
Was that your escape or moreabout expression?
Oh, very good question.

(25:07):
fully expression, I think, I'm avery active person.
I did track in high school, Ithink, my dad got me into beat
like performance, which istrying to improve myself.
So I really got into running.
There was periods in middleschool where I was like
overweight, like a slouch.
Break dancing.
It's amazing.
I think it's just like verycreative.
I still think how break dancinghelps with jiu jitsu.

(25:29):
Because it's very similar.
It's like combination of moves.
It's understanding your body,think of like the word baron,
bolo or like, Imanari roll,things like that.
it's creation.
it's like creatively figuringout how to manipulate your body
with another body to achieve agoal.
So I think, there's overlap withthat.
But break dance is like a trueexpression of how, like how you

(25:49):
express yourself with others.
Versus jiu jitsu, it's thegoals, like points or
submission.
Dancing has, it can beevaluated.
There are dancing competitions.
At the same time though, there'ssuch a free form to it and
people really appreciate it.
It can be judgmental as wellwhere people are like evaluating
how good you are or how creativeyou are.

(26:10):
At the same time though, it's avery supportive community where,
people are always fascinatedwith what people create.
Because if you think about it,if there's a break dancing
competition like in a month.
Everyone's preparing for it,just like a jiu jitsu
competition, right?
They're like refining theirmoves.
They're creating a set of moves.
They're just, you know, refiningthe craft.

(26:32):
Yeah.
I think, expression wise, yeah,I love it.
I do miss it, but being older,it's harder to do that stuff.
Yeah.
but I think you were mentioninglike, if I to win, I'll usually
do a little break dance show.
Yeah.
Yeah.
That's awesome.
Yeah.
When you were break dancing,where would you go for
competition?
Street?
would you be in the dance club?

(26:52):
Where would you go?
So there's dance practice indifferent parts of the Bay Area
there's like a community center.
There's one in San Jose, HankLopez that I would go to
sometimes, but, I think therewas some spots also in San
Francisco I used to go to, likein mission, I dunno if it's
still around.
And, yeah, it's fine.
It's just like a, you'll get 30,40 people there in a rec center.

(27:16):
They'll like music playing andjust people have their little
spots where they just practice.
It's like jiu jitsu open mat,right?
Yeah.
like someone here on this side,someone there on that side.
And, yeah, and it's goodtherapy, like jiu jitsu.
Oh, I bet.
Yeah.
Yeah, it looks amazing.
It looks fun.
Yep.
Let's get into your educationand career path area.
You studied neurobiology at UC,Davis.

(27:36):
What initially drew you tomedicine?
I think I, had an overachievermindset.
I wanted to be a doctor.
in high school I had pretty goodgrades, not like a 4.0.
I think I had a three point, 3.6or something like that.
But also if you go pre-med or ifyou go med school Doctor route,
like a lot of those people have4.0.
It's like they're incrediblysmart.
It's like the cream of the crop.

(27:57):
So that was the idea.
Like I wanted to be a doctor, Iwanted to be a neurosurgeon.
Probably like too ambitious.
But that's what I wanted to do.
But when I went to Davis, likeneurobiology was pretty hard
actually.
I remember, I studied to thepoint where I didn't party at
all in college.
Like I had a toothbrush, apillow.
I used to like, sleep in thelibrary.

(28:17):
So I'd spend like a ton of hoursthere.
Had a pretty busy schedule, as acollege student.
Yeah.
So looking back, like kind ofwish I had more fun, did more
social activities.
But honestly, it was justpursuing a goal.
Yeah.
Yeah.
You had to like career wise.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Not room for play.
Yeah.
You've worn a lot of hats,clinical research, law

(28:39):
enforcement, corporate life.
What role surprised you the mostabout yourself?
So the police one was like, itdoesn't match my personality,
but I did find that, somethingdid stand out about that.
This is like back in 2008.
So I went to San Jose PoliceAcademy and we had 55 recruits.

(29:00):
I forgot how it happened, iflike people volunteered or like
they nominate but I was electedclass president of the recruits
and we lost a few because theyfailed out or whatever.
I guess case in point, that wasmy first, experience of
leadership, which is like, I'min a position where it's like,
with, the team leaders andhierarchy system of helping

(29:21):
manage a group succeed Withinlike the six month academy.
Okay.
it taught a lot about like, howto work with people.
We had personalities, we had,people that kind of clashed,
recruit wise, and you see alldifferent type of personalities.
People that are like, wanna helpout people that only look out
for themselves.
But it was an interestingdynamic to understand okay, like

(29:43):
my goal is to help everyonesucceed and you can't please
everyone.
And it's also how do Icontribute in a way that, like
works best with everyone andit's hard.
'Cause you wanna let people dotheir things, but then there are
times you want to help peoplecourse correct.
I felt really lucky because,there were a few individuals
that were like really helpful.
Some tenured people were.

(30:05):
I think there was someone in theArmy that was like a Master
Sergeant, Mike Milky.
I was really close with him.
He helped out a lot.
'cause he's like an olderfigure.
Yeah.
That has been around the corner.
Then interestingly, we had aGreen Beret.
We had someone from West Point,and if anyone knows West Point,
like really disciplined people.
Yes.
So we had a few people from themilitary side that were like
incredibly sharp and talented.

(30:26):
Which is odd because I reallydon't even know if, remember how
I got elected as classpresident.
But I think about that a lotbecause, I think there are
certain traits of mine that areleadership driven.
The leadership topic kind ofcarried over where like I was,
co-president of the AdopteeAssociation for San Francisco,
representative of theInternational Korean Adoptee
Association.

(30:46):
Another topic we didn't talkabout in the outline is I went
to Africa and volunteered likein 2006, came back from my
experience.
I networked, there are othervolunteers.
They're all doctors now.
We actually started a 5 0 1 C3nonprofit international that
basically has like a chapter inDenmark, in the United Kingdom

(31:06):
in the US.
I'm like far displaced from allthis stuff.
Like I don't do it anymore.
They're more active with theorganization.
Um, but it, you know, it's likeme trying to think back, where
did this come from?
Is this influenced by my father?
My father he's like one of theoriginal a hundred people at
Adobe.
He founded another companyafter, a small tech company.
He's retired now.

(31:27):
But the funny thing is I neverreally observed him.
I was never like, oh, he didthis, so I wanna do this.
I think this is moreself-driven.
Yeah.
Yeah, it's a chicken egg.
I'm really not sure where itcomes from but there is some
sort of drive, or it could be acontrolling factor.
So here's another weird thing.
They do the child developmentreports, as I'm adopted or
throughout the years.
And in the evaluation it saidNick's very controlling.

(31:49):
So like it wasn't in a negativeway.
It was almost like, there's somereport where the evaluators like
Nick on the playground, likes togather all the children in this
sandbox area and have'em playwith each other.
So it wasn't bad controlling, itwas like.
Oh, you go here, you go here.
And they're like, we'll allplay.
Yeah.
But they observe that and a goodstructure.
Yeah.

(32:09):
Like facilitating or gettingpeople together.
So, um, from those workprofessional experiences,
something about the leadershipside stood out.
Yeah, I think that, I still amtrying to figure out how to
quantify it because leadership'ssort of a cloke, it's like a
loaded word, like what's aleader, like everyone's a
leader, all that stuff.

(32:30):
I do feel like I have a skill ofbringing people together,
networking in a certain way.
That's why, we threw an eventcalled Kale Finisher, where it's
like event promotion?
Like a tournament.
And, 50 volunteers all theplanning, the event.
So we did one in San Francisco,it was like 150 competitors.
We did black, brown belt, superfights, lot of local people.
We had prize money.

(32:51):
We partnered with Shoyoroll.
Free gi, so like some of theabsolute winners, all that
stuff.
We did one in Anaheim,California.
And we partnered with, hip HopChess Federation, Adisa.
Oh, and Adisa had his own chesstournament there that had some
actors in Hollywood.
I'd have to look up the namesagain.
Then Rizza was in it.

(33:11):
from, Wu-Tang.
All right.
Yeah.
Cool.
I'll send you photos of thefootage.
Yeah, that'd be cool.
So the work thing, I'd say.
What did I pick up from that?
The police was a leadershipthing.
I did consulting for six years.
I used to go to a differentstate every other week.
I remember I worked downtown SanFrancisco, this is like 2011 to
2015, 16.

(33:32):
This is how I knew I wasoverworked and I was, a
workaholic is I'd be workingdowntown like Friday nights.
And like my light was only lighton in sf.
Right.
While everyone's Out Likepartying or having dinner.
And I remember my boss, oh,here's a corporate card.
Go get sushi for dinner'causeyou're gonna work late.
And I was like, and also it waslike, I normalized it.

(33:52):
I was like, oh, okay.
I work a lot.
No big deal.
When as a consultant was workinglike 60, 70 hours a week, we
work until 2:00 AM like certain,like consecutive days.
Yeah.
And just like for likespreadsheets and projects.
The thing that's really goodabout that is it's paid off.
I remember I'd be juggling like10, 15 clients.
Like at a given time,deliverables, statement of
works, all that stuff.

(34:14):
Bringing money to the company.
but it helped my Rolodex, so Iactually had a director position
for a past client because theyremember me.
And it was the easiest interviewever.
I remember that.
'cause I worked with them.
So usually, did interviews whereit was like five interviews in a
row.
It'd be like, like half a day atthe company headquarters, like
Stryker.

(34:34):
Where it's just like an hourafter hour of panel interviews.
And then I remember Stryker,'cause that was the longest one
I ever did.
It was like dinner at a steakrestaurant with the VP of
commercial operations orwhatever.
And what also was funny is likehe was expecting like Nick
Greene to be like a white guy.
Yeah.
So like when we had dinner, he'sjust like, it was like the

(34:56):
blandest, it's like a bad dinnerdate.
It's like when he kind of metme, huge disinterest in me.
Wow.
Which is sad.
It is very sad.
'cause I had great interviewsthroughout every single team,
like research, regulatory,there's oh yeah, great.
Yeah, team player.
That was really disappointing.
So when I got the con, I got, heis lost.
His loss.
Yeah, I guess his loss.
But when I got the directorposition for, a past client,

(35:18):
basically the VP called me.
He was like, when can you start?
Nice.
Because they already validatedthrough, consulting.
Yeah, of course.
Yeah.
So the networking thing, I thinkis another strong thing.
And I think you see that too,because I'm like, oh, you're in
San Francisco.
Try and meet whoever you can.
Yeah.
There's people that would begreat for your podcast.
So I think I'm wired a certainway to think like that.

(35:38):
Yeah.
Absolutely.
Yeah.
Make it happen.
Yeah, exactly.
Okay, sounds good.
Okay, you talked about, being apolice officer, earlier.
Yep.
What led you to that decisionand why did you eventually step
away?
Yeah.
what's funny is, I think Ineeded a career change.
I was doing clinical research.
It's really like ad nauseum,like you're just doing the same

(36:02):
thing and it's like too dry anddata-driven.
So I think I got tired of it asI need to do something
different.
And my father, It was like hedid a Citizens Police academy.
He's do you wanna do it with me?
He's sure, I'll do somethingdifferent.
It was like, really?
Literally?
Like friends, Hey, I'm gonnaVegas, you wanna come?
Sure.
I'll come.
So I did it with him and I waslike, Hey, maybe I need to do

(36:23):
something different, like publicservice.
yeah, like I'm doing somethingwhere I'm like in a little cup
cubicle at UCSF.
My brain's rotting, so let me dosomething where it's like person
to person, hospitable.
So yeah, I did the policeacademy and the citizens one,
and then I applied to be police,and then I went from there, FTO,
all that stuff.

(36:44):
And then when I went on thefield, I think, okay, so this is
what stood out.
It really wears at you andaffects you personally, It
really takes a toll on yourmental health because I noticed,
and here's examples.
One is I have a pretty diverseset of friends, different
ethnicities.
Like one of my best friends inhigh school, Steve Black bucket,

(37:04):
right?
I noticed it starts putting onthis lens of racism and
prejudice where it's like, ifyou're pulling most frequently
black and Hispanic people overright?
You start to get a really badbias to them.
So you get this old school like,it's like an old cranky man,
black people, they're probablystealing, Yeah.
it's really terrible.
Yeah.
and I'm glad that you saw thatand you could admit it.

(37:25):
Yeah.
It's real because I noticed.
I have friends that aredifferent ethnicities, but I
just feel this sort of bias,it's like this blanketed, like
broad paintbrush of black peopleare more like, they're probably
gonna lie to me they're probablyplotting against me.
Which is really terrible.
Then also all the stress.
I noticed I was drinking a lotafter work and it was like

(37:47):
affecting my marriage.
Okay.
and we divorced, but that's notwhy there's other things
involved.
But I just remember it got tothe point where even my ex-wife
was like, this is harsh.
This is like hard on you.
And she didn't, she wasn't happyto see me become more and more
of a negative person.
And I just give you examples,like I only did it like two and
a half, three years, but evenunder that short period of time,

(38:08):
so homeless guy got beat up.
We went to their, call all that,and the sergeant's oh, double
glove up.
And I'm like, why?
He's like drunk in public orwhatever.
Yeah.
When I arrest him, he's allbleeding, he like, tries to spit
on me.
Oh no.
And basically the sergeant's,like he is, HIV right?
So he's tried to infect me withHIV.
And I'm just like, dude, I'mjust like, I haven't done

(38:28):
anything to him.
And that's like an example.
I didn't wake up today thinkinglike, hey, some person with HIV
is trying to infect me.
You know, there's other stufflike that and it compounds, it's
It just wears on you.
Yeah.
So when I got out of it, Iactually noticed, it helped me
restore myself to like my normalself.
Okay.
I remember there was, apedophile case I did that was

(38:49):
pretty crazy.
And I went with the DA, we wentto Santa Clara County where it's
like a 11-year-old boy.
And some, therapist was in thispicture, where did he touch you?
And the doll and all this stuff.
And you're like, wow, people arereally, there's some really bad
people out there.
There are, it was his uncle.
But it was just, it was hard.
Yeah, but it also taught me alot about people.
I think that it helped me reallyunderstand people.

(39:12):
But then when I had time to getaway from it and really reflect
on it, I actually noticed somevery interesting traits about
people like, Some of the mostrespectful, earnest people, and
honest, in a little bit wayhonest, more honest people were
people with like criminalrecords and people that just,
you know, like that lower rungof society.

(39:33):
And I'll give you an example.
'cause I always to say it is onething to give an example is
another, So I remember, I pulledthis guy over, he's like a, he's
like a OG oldtimer, likeprobably norteno or something,
like tats everywhere, all that.
Yeah.
Looked at his record, like hewas in the shoe, if you know
Some people know In prison.
Uhhuh.
Yeah.
He was in the shoe, his recordwas like assault, bank robbery,
just like stolen car, all thatstuff.

(39:55):
But he was institutionalized,but also he was really, actually
really respectful.
I kept my distance, but at thesame time, like he was like, yes
sir.
No sir.
And I could tell that his baddays are passing, right.
He just wants to live his life.
And I remember, there was thislike older white guy, like rich
guy.
He like drove through two redlights or something like in
front of me.
I was all right, like now I haveto pull him over.

(40:17):
So I pulled him over.
When he pulled him over, he likestorms out the car.
He says like, how dare you pullme over?
Oh no.
You know, it's like entitlement.
Yes.
Yeah.
So to me it's I'm just weighingthese experiences in my mind,
like the entitlement, like howdare you?
Like I pay your taxes, blah,blah, blah.
And versus yes or no, sir.
So it just, yeah, you seedifferent things in society when

(40:39):
you know, you wouldn't expect,and Yeah, sometimes you kinda
have to like, take away the biasor, which is hard.
It's really hard.
Oh, yeah.
Because you also have to be onguard too, because you just
never know.
It's both.
Yeah.
Yeah.
But all the time, right?
Yeah.
No matter who it is.
Yeah.
it's always on.
That's the thing.
Like I did the whole ex-wife'soh yeah, you're facing the door
and the restaurant, and likeyou're like looking at where

(40:59):
people's hands are.
I don't know.
yeah.
Yeah.
It's a tough job.
I really, I still keep in touchwith friends and, And I feel for
them.
I also remember I left as apolice officer just when it was
starting to get really bad.
So it was right around the timethat Oscar Grant happened, which
is Fruitvale Station in thebart, where a cop shot Oscar
Grant versus getting the taserout.

(41:20):
Okay.
So like the whole Oaklandcommunity was like angry mob.
So that happened right aroundthe time I was about to leave.
And I remember everyone startedchanging their view of police.
People used to be oh, police arehere to help.
They're here to help ourcommunity.
After that incident, everythingwent to acab, all that stuff.
I remember, like I drive certainneighborhoods, people would spit

(41:42):
at me.
Not on me, but just sort of likedisrespect.
Yeah.
And I remember another one whereit's like people are
anti-police.
Where apparently there was likesome gang people like
paintballing and hitting stufflike bats with can just like all
that stuff in the neighborhood.
And we pulled them over on likea main road like El Camino and,

(42:03):
You know, like guns out.
I had to do the driver, put yourkeys out, hands up, walk slowly
towards me, blah, blah, blah.
I remember that one of them spunaround on me and I didn't know
if they had a gun or a knife.
I was like, holy shit.
Yeah.
And me and my, sergeant, wegrabbed him and slammed him on
the ground.
And it was just like, oh, It'sexciting.
And cuffed him all that.

(42:24):
But what I remember is there wassome like middle class person
with a camera phone being I'mgonna report you for abuse,
yeah.
I was like, in my mind I'm Likeyou didn't see this guy just
like spitting around on me andtry and do something to me
Uhhuh.
But they, but case in point,they were just like, oh, police
being, bad police.
It's just interesting'cause itjust got worse and worse over

(42:45):
time.
And the friends of mine arestill officers that I feel for
them.
Yeah.
I dunno how they do it.
I know a lot of our likedepartments are running really
lean, people are like leavingtheir jobs on it.
Quitting.
But it's tough.
Yeah.
I feel for them.
Yeah.
Yeah.
How did your career path shapeyour identity outside of jiu
jitsu?

(43:06):
I'd say, I've been told I'm anextrovert.
I think I am an ambivert.
Introverted and extroverted, butI think, it makes sense what
type of job I have now.
I'm in big pharma, like I'm afield rep in market access.
So I work with sales reps.
I see accounts, I guess given myextroverted side, it does align
with going to doctors.

(43:26):
Staff, promoting things or,helping with like patient cases.
So yeah, I think it, it matcheswell and I do like my industry.
I like what I do.
Okay.
yeah, identity wise, more on theextroverted.
You know who I am.
Okay.
Let's go into personal growthand relationships.
You've gone through bigrelationships, shifts.

(43:49):
17 year marriage and engagement.
What have you learned aboutyourself through love and loss?
I'd say it's iterative process.
I think I'm more in a normalstate where I could speak to
this topic and it's not like I'mstill hurt.
Or I still damaged, right?
'Cause there definitely islong-term relationships and
breaking up, like people sayit's like almost like a death.

(44:09):
It's like there's a lot of,recovery from that.
I reflect on it a lot.
Did a lot of work on it.
Not in a rush to be in arelationship again.
And also I think like back onthe 17 year relationship, like
my ex-wife and I, were stillfriends.
Like we still talk here andthere, just, check in on each
other.
Yeah, that's great.
Because like we, we were in arelationship from 18 years old

(44:30):
to 30, 36 or 37 or something.
Yeah.
that's huge.
That's a long time.
Yeah.
Couple of decades.
Yeah.
Yeah.
From 18 when we were like teensto then she had like
endometriosis, she helped me getthrough the academy or the
police, like our families arereally close.
It's kinda like you put all thatwork, like you've gone through

(44:52):
so much and you've growntogether, you're in different
paths in life, so why throw thataway?
That's how I think of it.
And, she's a good person.
I'd say that as well.
Just didn't work over timebecause I think relationships
ultimately are pretty hard.
Honestly, um, love and loss.
So yeah, I guess it's on thetopic of loss.

(45:12):
I think, spending like a lot oftime by myself has been really
helpful to really justunderstand how to be at peace
and happy in my life.
Yeah.
If anyone's read on, booksactually on codependency if you
read it, and attachment styleswhere like we tend to like,
there's healthy attachmentstyles and unhealthy attachment
styles, and it's like you haveto really understand like where
you are with attachment.

(45:33):
It's helped me do the work andreally better understand that.
So these days I'm not reallylooking for anything.
If something happens, it'sgreat.
Yeah.
I think before I was trying tofill a void, right?
So like my ex-girlfriend aftermy ex-wife was like, it was like
a rebound.
Right where I talked to a fewfriends who're like, you should
have just spent a year off justworking on yourself.

(45:56):
Yeah.
And then another funny thing islike my friend, another good
friend of mine, these are likereally close friends that like
gone through divorce.
They're like, oh, how are youdoing, Nick?
Oh, I'm good.
And they're like.
So 17 years, right?
I'm like, yeah.
So it's been two years or a yearand a half.
I'm like, yeah.
I feel better.
I feel like I've gotten over thehump and I'm like, back to
normal.
Yeah.
He's like, you sure?
And he's done a lot of therapy.
He's yeah, Nick, like this stuffis like, recovery time is

(46:18):
different for everyone.
He's just making the point, likeit sometimes it really takes
time to really get back to yourtrue self or back to being
grounded.
And that was interesting'causehe was right.
Like it, like I think, we brokeup at 37, 38, and I'm 43, so
five years.
Yeah.
And, when I was like one and ahalf, two years when I thought I
was good, I really wasn't.

(46:40):
I was like drinking, just likepartying, doing a lot of things
to escape.
Or I thought I was good, butthen.
I was like, what I think versuswhat I'm doing is different.
It's still iterative process.
Yeah.
It's like putting oil in thecar.
Like the car is always gonnaneed oil.
It's not like I just drive andit's gonna be fine forever.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It takes a lot of work.
It does.
Yeah.
Okay, so let's go back to theadoption.

(47:03):
What prompted you to exploreyour adoption and Korean roots
during the pandemic?
Yeah, let's talk about that indepth.
Sure.
Yeah.
Actually, I had no interest inKorean culture, Korean language,
any of that stuff.
During pandemic I feel like alot of people did lots of
different things.
I even talked to friends wholike joined jiu jitsu during
pandemic'cause oh, I wanna dosomething different in this

(47:23):
pandemic.
Yeah.
Actually, me and another wave ofKorean adoptees, we joined at
the same time'cause of the samepandemic prompt.
And, we just, got involved withthe community, went to events.
There's, a Korea gathering inKorea every three years where,
adoptees throughout the globe,meet up there.
So in 2023 I went to that, itwas like 500, adopt 450, 500

(47:46):
adoptees from like Sweden,France.
Australia.
It's like, Italian Guidos, likethey're adoptees from Italy,
Uhhuh, and it's almost like theylook like Goodfellas.
Yeah.
They're like long hair.
Hey, what's your name?
Nice to me.
It's insane.
Wow.
Yeah.
They're French ones that havevery French personality.
Yeah.
So that's fascinating.

(48:08):
So anyways, yeah.
It prompted me to exploresomething different.
And then, I got deeply involvedwith the adoptee community.
It's kind of tapered downbecause it's like, it's just
like you have to exploresomething, you have to
understand it, and then once youget what you need from it, you
can continue it or it kind ofcovers an area that you're
curious about.
And then you get what you getout of it.

(48:29):
So moving to Korea was like apart of that, where there
actually were a lot of adopteesthat moved to Korea just to
experience it.
To understand it.
Yeah.
I don't where you came from.
Yeah.
Yeah.
it's odd because, I don't knowif there's any similarities like
Native American roots where it'slike, you culturally, I feel
like I've seen like events wherethey like have Native American
gatherings.
They do, like at Stanford, likeon the grounds there.

(48:51):
Yeah.
They just had one recently.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So I saw that once.
Yeah.
Like years ago.
Where it's like you just exploresomething about your culture
just to understand it.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So that's the what, the parallelwhat you do.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Simple that.
Okay.
Yeah.
So then, what was yourexperience in Korea?
Oh, Korea was, it was good.
It was a really good chapter inmy life.
Cost of living stood out.

(49:12):
Like America, we pay way toomuch for things here across the
board.
So my apartment in San Franciscowas like 2,400, like for a small
apartment.
The apartment in Korea was onefourth.
The price, it was like 700 amonth in the center of Seoul
Uhhuh, which is like being inNew York City in the center of
New York City.
And it was one fourth, the cost,meals in Korea was like 78

(49:37):
bucks.
You can get like a decent mealand then it's like you go to
McDonald's here, like Uber Eats,it's 18,$20 for extra value
meal.
It is.
Which is insane.
Yeah.
So money goes In othercountries, it's the same, like
dollar goes way further.
But then also like America, thesalary ranges really can go like
really high to low, but it'smore lower in Korea.

(50:00):
Okay.
When I was there, I spent a yearthere.
I taught English during the day.
I took Korean language class atnight at a university.
I was working on learning thelanguage.
And then if you're from America,typically most jobs is really
just English teaching.
It was great.
The kids were wonderful.
I taught second to sixth grade.
The kids were also refreshing.
'Cause you know, like I'm fromcorporate, inner corporate, so

(50:21):
it was really nice just to havelike fun kids that are curious
about you.
Really creative, really playful,really curious, fun.
Yeah.
Like they're a big highlight onmy Instagram there's photos of
like me and them.
Yeah.
I saw.
Yeah.
And it was just nice.
It was really like, it restoredhumanity and oh, people are
good.
Yeah.
These kids are really sweet.
They drew little cards, like,teacher, you're the best.

(50:43):
Blah, blah, blah.
Like little art.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And that was nice.
It was just like, good intentionpeople and really sweet kids.
So there's that, uh, Korean's avery hard language and I studied
Japanese for like middle school,high school and college.
And I went to high school inJapan.
Like I spent like a four monthprogram, in a high school there.
So my Japanese is pretty muchfluent.

(51:05):
The reason bringing it up Koreanlanguage is like incredibly
hard.
Japanese is considered hard, buteven Korean, I was like, I just
didn't think I was grasping malelike I did other languages.
Yeah.
It was a lot tougher.
Yeah.
Honestly.
One thing I wanted to know, whenyou went back to Korea, were you
fulfilled on what you werelooking for?
Yeah, that's, you know what'sfunny?
A lot of adoptees ask me thesame exact question as you.

(51:28):
I think I got what I needed outof it.
Just experience what it's tolive there, what it's like to be
a Korean, and they're very kindpeople.
It's like other countries whereit's like they've gone through a
lot.
There's been the Korean War.
Japanese occupation.
And that can be tough, likethat, scarring and trauma but
there is like a very hospitable,caringness to them.

(51:50):
And like my neighbor taught mehow to make Korean pancakes.
The landlord lady was like amother.
She like, Korean New Year shewould give me like pastries.
Oh, that's sweet.
And then she'd drop off kimchievery few months.
So that was really nice.
It was like Sesame Street orlike Mr.
Rogers neighborhood.
There's a flower lady I talkedto.
There's a lady made Kimbop,which is like a Korean sushi

(52:12):
roll.
So it's like I, I had a routinewhere I'd bring Kaui there.
Yeah.
She pet Kaui.
I buy a roll.
So you formed your owncommunity?
Yeah.
I'd say that.
Or the community helped meintegrate.
Yeah.
That's awesome.
Yeah, so it, it made it pleasant'cause you could basically say
hi to your neighbors and ithelped me practice my korean a
little bit, but That's nice.

(52:32):
When you were in Korea, did itbring you any answers or even
more questions?
I think it brought more answers,'cause I just wanted to
experience and understand it.
Yeah.
And, like living there, did it.
I think if I didn't live there,I'd have more questions.
But having to immerse yourself,live as one, it gave me an
experience.
Good.
Yeah.
To understand it.

(52:53):
That's great.
Now we're gonna go into your jiujitsu journey.
Okay.
Yeah.
I was at an event called Fightto Win, and so I went over there
to take some photos of teamdaruma, which is Alberto.
And as I was taking photos ofthese different matches, until
his came up and all of a suddenyou came up and the only reason

(53:17):
it stuck to me, in my mind for along time, it's your energy.
It was for one, your jiu jitsuwas great because you won your
match, and third, you did somebreak dancing move at the end.
So I thought it was prettyawesome and amazing.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So thank you for that, Nick.
Oh, you're welcome.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Oh, make coffee.
Very entertaining.

(53:38):
So let's start this off.
Let's talk about jiu jitsu.
What do you remember about yourvery first class and how you got
into it?
This is a great question.
Yeah, that's you should askeveryone that.
It's hard to remember the firstclass, but I remember, a break
dance friend of mine was like,we're getting older.
It's hard to do break dancing.
You should try jiu jitsu.

(53:58):
I was like, all right.
And my friend Coy, so I waslike, where do you train at?
Academy Self Defense, TriuneStan Kendrick.
I was like, cool.
Lemme check it out.
I don't know if I went therealone or if I like met up with
coy, but I just went in and itwas like a nice humble, small
class.
It was like, I think that'swhere I met OJ.
I dunno if you met oj, right?
Uhhuh.
He was a brown be at the time.

(54:20):
This is like back in oh 8, 0 9,there was Kevin Lee.
I don't even know what he's upto.
Roger Ver there's a few others.
I don't know if Josh was thereat the time, but, I think he
started at Ralph Gracie, andthen he ended up, because he was
doing, I think MMA.
Okay.
And then, he was doing some cagefighting and then he came over
to Stan Yeah.

(54:41):
At the same place you were at.
Yeah.
but that time, like he may havejoined a little bit later.
Yeah, Stan taught, I remember.
Stan was influenced by SauloRibeiro, from, Six Blades.
So Saulo like his influence andSal's like a good OG instructor.
So Stan gave a really good base,so first class I remember like
I'm a white belt.

(55:02):
I remember, I really liked itlike.
Like it clicked.
Like you get the bug, I call itthe jiu jitsu bug, where it just
like, all you think about is jiujitsu.
I was really into it and Iremember, uh, I have no idea.
I know it was spazzy.
I remember I was probably likea, like overpowering everything
as a white belt.
I'll see if I can find somephotos like back.

(55:23):
Yeah, that would be great.
Back in the day.
Yeah, because there are like oneor two, like me and OJ and
others.
But it was good.
And I think what really made itwell is there's some instructors
that these days that do likefancy lapel guard and all that
stuff, I do appreciate more andlike that Stan was really good
at fundamental foundationalbasics, core structural, like

(55:44):
good, clean jiu jitsu.
And I think like you can alwaysattribute certain things to
certain people, I think mychemours are more from him than
others.
Okay.
Yeah.
You kind of pick up things thatreally stand out, like where you
got something.
But it was fun.
Yeah, that was basically myfirst class, but it was like a
small group.
It was like maybe.
10 or 12 OJ's Brown.
Maybe there's like a purple orblue or two.

(56:07):
Okay.
it's that kind of ratio.
Okay.
Yeah.
Cool.
Okay.
You said that you competed, youhad a couple of months and then
you started to compete and thatwas very soon in your training.
Yep.
So can you tell me about whathappened there?
Yeah, competing.
So I got the bug.
I wanted to compete.
I just enjoyed it'cause the wayto describe it is, it's like an

(56:28):
adrenaline rush.
Obviously there's anxiety andlike nervousness and stress,
but, when I competed, it wasjust fun.
I just enjoyed the process ingeneral.
I always thought that it is likethe equivalent of skydiving,
people look forward to theweekend to skydive, get their,
like their fix and then theytrain or they go back to work.
So I gotten that pattern of justwanting to compete like whenever

(56:51):
I can, like once a month ortwice a month.
So here's a spreadsheet oftracking.
If you wanna check it out, youcan even show on the camera.
Wow.
Look at that.
Yes.
Feel free to scroll.
So that's your, okay.
This is his, uh, that is a lotof lines and a lot of competing.

(57:16):
You did.
Yep.
That's amazing.
Yeah.
And I encourage anyone it'sworth tracking to like,'cause
what it revealed to me istrends, oh, I'm losing my points
a lot.
Like I'm starting to lose moreof my points.
I need to work on likepositional or it's like I'm
getting really close.
Like you start to notice, trendsin how you compete and then you

(57:38):
can fix it.
Oh, I got triangled.
I can't get triangled.
Like, I got Triangled here.
I got Triangled here.
I really gotta work on liketriangle defense.
Okay.
So anyways, that's to theaudience.
Okay.
Sounds good.
So yeah, so you're like tryingto narrow in what you need to
work on.
Yeah.
That's good.
That's a nice way to keep trackof everything.
Yeah.
I have another friend thatusually he just videotapes

(57:59):
himself and then he just goesback and watches it.
But I think yours is a littlebit more statistical and, yeah,
we do both.
I'll show the footage to like mycoach and they'll be like, Hey,
what?
You know, and they'll tellstuff.
I've had students bring theirfootage to me and I'll be like,
oh, if you didn't do this, youprobably would've kept out of
their guard or something likethat.
Yeah.
That's good.
No, that's great.
That's a great monitor.

(58:20):
So in all that competing, whathas stood out to you the most?
Yeah.
I'd say the really big oneswhere I really had to earn it
and it was a battle.
so one of them was, Abu Dhabitrials that are thrown in
different parts of the US andthen if you win a trip to Abu
Dhabi.
And then you can compete forlike prize money or a belt or
both.
Yeah.
Uhhuh.

(58:40):
So when I was Blue belt, likebasically you have to win, you
have to medal at your weightclass.
I think it was like middle ormedium heavy.
And then all the winners fightan absolute, and then it's
whoever wins absolute.
like the gold there wins thetrip.
So I did in Las Vegas and Iremember, it's actually funny
because we ended up beingteammates later.

(59:03):
The final was me against, hisname's Graham and he's like
pretty athletic.
He's bigger than me.
He's really technical too, and Icould find the footage for you,
basically it was like, I thinkit was an advantage or a rough
decision I won and it was inlike the last 30 seconds.
And then when I won, this iswhen I was at Heroes, like I

(59:26):
collapsed on the ground, likeGumby and others were like
cheering, you won a trip to AbuDhabi, you did it and screaming.
And then I think I was likecrying.
Oh.
So like just, it was like the,it is like the emotional burst,
just like I did it all that workAlso, all that work that got put
into it.
Yeah, because you like, yourealize, like you sacrifice,
weight cutting.
like friends going out socially,just pushing, like that hard

(59:50):
gradual buildup of like all thatinvestment of time, right?
And yeah, like that was one of'em, that stood out.
And just to like finally dosomething where it's like you
get to go to the big stage.
or you win a trip, right?
Yeah.
It's just kind of surreal.
You're just like, oh, I can'tbelieve I did this.
Like it paid off.
Yeah.
The other is, I won it in PurpleBelt in Hawaii, so they did

(01:00:12):
trials in Hawaii, and what stoodout there is you know what it
was, it's like a flow state.
It's like I had a really goodday that day.
Like I went surfing with, somefriends, Like Manny Diaz, who
also competed.
Nice.
Mandy Diaz is actually like a,like an old school legend.
I don't know if you've everheard the name.
No, I have not.
He comes from Watsonville.
Okay.
yeah, ask Kiko or, Okay.
Mike Kirby or Josh, yeah.

(01:00:34):
Yeah.
Manny was in the scene for awhile, but then, he got injured.
but we went, we traveled.
He competed.
I competed, I got lucky in won.
And then there's another thingwhere it's like.
I like, I dunno if I was crying,but I did the whole ah, like
super excited because it's likeclimbing the mountain, like a
huge mountain, like Everest orsomething.
And like you got to the toplike, I did it.
I can't believe I did it.
So that was, that stood out aswell.

(01:00:56):
Another one that stood out, Ithink it's just the fruits of
reward, which is I competed somuch and put so much work into
it.
it's nice to be recognized andto get the opportunity was, I
did EBI three times.
Okay.
And the funny thing is how I gotinto EBI, the first was, I used
to travel to LA for work, foraccounts.
Yeah.
And I would drop into downtownLA 10th Planet and Eddie Bravo

(01:01:19):
taught a lot.
He actually teaches a lot there.
Oh, wow.
So Eddie would see me rolling.
I don't know if he knew mycompetition background, but he
saw me rolling with hisstudents, and I drop in a few
times.
And he's Hey, but hey, you'repretty good Bombo.
Or, you have some really goodskills.
we do like to be on EBI.
And I was like, of course.
'cause EBI huge.
Yeah.
so yeah, I got to be on that.
And then I did two other ones.

(01:01:41):
'cause even though I lost, heinvited me back and I thought
that was ironic.
But also it showed if you win orlose, people do remember you on
your skill or like the work thathe put in.
Yeah.
I think that was admirable.
Yeah.
You probably a good match.
And even though you lost you,you still put on a great.
Yeah.
Performance.

(01:02:01):
Yeah.
and those things stand out.
It's like the things you thinkabout, like revealing character
or like what people, someone'sabout.
Another one was, Benji Silva.
I don't know if you know thatname.
Benji and I had, he's from CaioTerra.
Okay.
He and I had a really good matchin Fight to Win eight, like one
of the beginning ones in KezarStadium in San Francisco.

(01:02:21):
And it was a really good backand forth and, I did some good
slams on him.
And the refs gave it to Benji.
And here's the interestingthing, because I wouldn't have
expected this, so Benji likecame to me and he's oh, I wanted
to give you the prize money.
But I'm like, why are you doingthat?
Like you won.
And basically,'cause his coachis Caio.

(01:02:43):
I think Caio even went up to meand he's Nick, like even though
Benji won, I think.
I think you won, given like howthat, it was interesting.
I think it, like what it stoodout was, Caio didn't have to do
that, but I think his, what'sthe right word for that?
It's like he was standup ish andhe's standing up for what he

(01:03:04):
thought was right.
Correct.
And I thought that wasinteresting.
Okay.
Because a lot of coaches be thatthey would just be like, oh
yeah.
we'll take the win.
That's it.
We'll take the win.
Exactly.
Yeah.
And I thought that was like,interesting that he took that
sort of moral ground of youreally won.
Like even though the refs don'tagree with that.
And that kind of stood outbecause it meant that Caio was
above just like petty winning.
It means he actually, it's likestanding for real jiu jitsu.

(01:03:26):
Okay.
Maybe that was it.
Okay.
yeah, so that stood out becauseI wouldn't expect that from him.
Yeah.
Yeah.
That's awesome.
Great character.
Yeah.
You trained under some bignames.
What lessons are value stuckwith you from each instructor?
uh, Stan, like I said, I thinkreally good fundamentals, good
foundation.

(01:03:47):
Gumby, the same thing.
Really good foundation, goodfundamentals, really helped with
giving me a good, startingpoint.
And then Kurt teaches in a wake.
You know what, I was talking toa friend about this.
Kurt really understands peopleand culture, and he creates an
environment even though he is alittle bit controversial figure,
but he creates an environment Ithink that really made this feel

(01:04:09):
like a good place, like a secondhome and yeah, Kurt also, he
puts everything, he's likereally nurturing.
But he does it in a way that'slike the rebellious, like heavy
metal version of it.
He cares a lot about his gym andhe's kinda like one of us.

(01:04:30):
You know, he doesn't do thehierarchical, like I'm the
instructor.
He loves what he does.
He's very passionate about it.
Most of my years were with Kurt.
It was like from like blue.
I remember the first day I cameinto this gym, this whole side
wasn't here.
Yeah, from blue to black belt.
So Kurt gave me his black beltwhen I first got my belt.

(01:04:51):
Which is a huge honor.
I rarely wear it.
It's more in the shadow boxthing.
He's such a fascinating guy too.
And you know what I feel likeI've learned from Kurt, to do it
your way because a lot ofinstructors, they kind of do
this sort of vanilla ish, I'mgonna instruct here very
formalized, right?
Kurt really shared that, youcould have fun, you can
personalize it, you can addflair to it.

(01:05:14):
So it's not just like this, likeTaeKwonDo style instruction of
martial arts.
And then, here's something onRalph that I like to share.
So, uh, Ralph cares like a lotabout his students in the
academy.
He sees it as a second family.
I'm good friends with Ralph,like I've been to his house for
his birthday.
We did a Tahoe trip with otherstudents together for New Year's

(01:05:35):
Eve.
So really spending quality timewith him, I gotta see like
another side of him.
Which is like really warm,really invested in the students.
He really sees it as like howmuch value they bring to him,
not just like him to them.
Here's something I like to sharewith people, which is, I
remember there was a class inthe evening that finished and
there was some like leftoverwhite belts on this side, and
pretty much everyone was gone,right?

(01:05:57):
'Cause that's the main mat side.
Okay?
So I peeked over and no one'swatching.
And Ralph spend 10 or 15 minutesto like, like straight up
beginner white belt.
helping them like correct theirpositions or something with
close guard.
Yeah.
But my point is this Ralph, noone was looking at Ralph.
He wasn't trying to be shown.
It wasn't optics.
Like he wants to look good.
He just genuinely like, geekedout and wanted to help these

(01:06:19):
white belts learn something.
Yeah.
And like also in a subtle way.
Like you're in a good place.
Okay.
Like you've decided to join ourgym and this is a place where we
all help, we all nurture eachother.
We're all the same.
And I think that's reallyimportant because creating the
right environment is everything.
You know, like a safe placesanctuary.

(01:06:40):
Sure.
'Cause we did have a little bitof dark days, honestly, like
Kurt was great, but then therewas another instructor that
tarred, tarnished the academy alittle bit.
I don't wanna go into detailsand I'm purposely not saying the
name.
But I'll say this'cause thismatters.
I remember watching them talkdown to a white belt and say
what the fuck are you fuckingstupid?
You don't know how to do themove.
I just showed it to you.

(01:07:00):
And we had white belts quitbecause of that.
Yeah.
And it really pissed me off andI'll say this publicly on this
podcast because the damage itdid to some of the students to
be treated that way, we stillhave a lot of students that even
still do jiu jitsu, but they'rejust like, yeah, I remember he
talked down to me, he like,dismiss me or whatever and it's
like they remember.
It's a little bit of a bullyingthing subtly.

(01:07:21):
And, we really miss Kurt and welost a lot of really good
students there.
But it really frustrated me tosee how some of the students
were treated.
And I'm happy to say that onthis podcast.
And if people on the other sideunder the instructor think
negatively of me.
That's fine.
I don't really Yeah.
I just do not like that they hadthat effect on people.

(01:07:44):
Mm-hmm.
And people quit because of that.
And people just had badexperiences.
Like I did not like that at all.
Yeah.
Yeah.
You want everybody to have asafe space Yeah.
With the ability to learn and,do their jiu jitsu.
Yeah.
Which we have now.
You know, like the great thingis we created that environment
after the sad thing is again, wereally miss and we think about

(01:08:06):
Kurt a lot.
He was really like close to us.
Yeah.
And we lost some really goodstudents.
Yeah.
People like really good trainingpartners.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Unfortunately it happens.
Yeah.
It's life.
Okay.
Okay.
When we talked earlier, youmentioned that purple belt was
your favorite.
Why does that belt stand out toyou?

(01:08:28):
I So I'd say purple belt, bestway to put it.
Purple belt's where I reallystarted to expand on truly
learning jiu jitsu.
Blue belt I felt like I just dotop game passing, smashing, just
like pressure.
Just like certain moves.
Purple belt.
I'm like really opened up withlearning everything like open

(01:08:50):
guard, spider guard, da la riva,and really trying to understand
it deeply versus blue it almostfelt like I just stuck with one
or two things and just masterthat.
So I think the growth potentialis like you start to really
wanna explore everything in jiujitsu and also refine it.
Ver versus like you'd only go sodeep with understanding a move

(01:09:14):
at blue Belt.
Okay.
How do you define jiu jitsu nowas a black belt compared to when
you first started?
I'd say black belt.
When I first started, I thinkjiu jitsu was all this
superficial stuff of trying totap people out, trying to tap
people out, trying to see whereI'm at with others.

(01:09:37):
all the honeymoon stuff with it,just, I think black belt's
actually taken a step back andthinking more about, like
holistic stuff.
Just the community stuff.
There's a period also when I wasblack belt where I started like
really going back to basics.
Like I wasn't thinking about allthe fancy moves, but just

(01:10:01):
revisiting, like opening aclothes guard.
Very simple, very clean.
It's almost like being a whitebelt again.
Okay.
The other big thing with blackbelt, it's the new challenge is
like being able to teach jiujitsu.
Because everyone learnsdifferently.
You have to explain somethingwhere it makes sense to the
beginners and also the expert,like the high belts.

(01:10:25):
And that's a challenge becausethere's a sweet spot.
It's almost like a Goldilockslike.
You can do too much informationand then not enough information,
but there's a just right amountso that everyone gets it.
I'd say the overall biggerpicture of jiu jitsu.
in the beginning it's a lotabout, what I can get out of it
and like how it serves me.

(01:10:45):
So it's like when you're abeginner, everyone's trying to
get better.
They're just starting on thejourney, so they're also trying
to figure out what jiu jitsu is.
I think over the years you startto.
See more and more of, the biggerpicture with it.
So it's the community is a bigone.
also how it like, helps peoplein different facets of their
life, like mental health,friendships, just the growth of

(01:11:07):
people around them.
So if you're to like open up mymind as a black belt and like
look what's inside there.
It's a lot of, like outsidestuff, not just like with
myself, but like seeing how ourstudents do, how they grow.
Also we know a lot of the samepeople, like Josh becoming a
coach, right?
He was like a blue belt.

(01:11:27):
Last time, when we go way back.
I remember like he and I werelike blue belt.
People have like developed andflourished in their own ways.
There's a lot of people wear, Iwas like, brown belt, they're a
white belt and now they havetheir own academies, which is
like a amazing, it's like Iwould never have thought they
like open up their own academyin San Jose or something.
Yeah.
And also when they're like youngand now they're like straight up

(01:11:49):
adults and like east side's.
One where he's like a baby.
He was like 16, a little Mexicankid, Uhhuh.
And now he has his own academyand like students and he's he is
got a beard.
So to me on the black belt side,I think it's just really fun and
fascinating to see growth indifferent ways.
Yeah.
and as you can tell, like I'mvery community driven or like

(01:12:12):
oriented, so yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah, I can see that for sure.
Yeah.
How has jiu jitsu helped youmentally, especially in handling
anxiety or life's heaviermoments?
great question.
I would say, it's, when I wentthrough my divorce, it was
really hard.
I was in a really dark place.
I was negative Nick.

(01:12:34):
Ralph being a really goodfriend, he sat with me and he
said jiu jitsu's always gonna behere for you.
It wasn't the fancy talk, it waslike really direct and straight.
But he knew what my situationwas.
And in a simple way to just comeon in and, we're here for you.
Yeah.
And then the more I trained,like the more, like the negative
cloud went away, being aroundteammates and being around, good

(01:12:57):
aura, good energy really helped.
I just noticed it helped merestore myself quicker.
And because, I was in my ownhead space, like I brewed at
home or I'd be dark andnegative.
Yeah.
So that really stood out.
I think.
and Ralph recognized that too.
Uhhuh, that was helpful.
Yeah.
And he was able to help pull youout of that.
Yeah.
Yeah.
That's good.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Good mentors.

(01:13:17):
Yeah.
That's what you need.
What's one thing Jiu-Jitsu'staught you that has nothing to
do with jiu jitsu?
Interesting.
I think it's the biggestequalizer.
So I think, it just creates anenvironment where it doesn't
matter what, like how much youmake, what you do for a living,
who you are, if you're importantor not.

(01:13:37):
But when you're on the mat andwhen you're like at an open mat
or with people, we don't careabout any of that.
And it's like it breakseverything to the core of just
like in like appreciating themoment of training and learning
from a partner.
And being challenged by partner.
Yeah.
And that's really nice becauselike when you get out, when you
step outside the academy,everything becomes about like

(01:14:00):
bias and judgment.
Like someone will look at oh,what car you drive?
Or are you, dress up nice ornot?
Or what do you do?
But when you like go on theother side into the academy,
that all goes away.
And it's nice.
It's like a nice neutrality ofjust, you know, doing an
activity that everyone loves forthe same reason.
Yep.
I agree.

(01:14:22):
You've dropped into gyms allover the country.
What makes a truly welcomingacademy?
Ooh, another good question.
I'd say, It doesn't have to belike every academy instructor
welcomes you and rolls out thered carpet or students or
everyone's shaking and bowing toyou.
I think it's just you come intoa place where, it's almost do

(01:14:43):
what the people do.
if you go to another country,like you just go in and it's oh,
you're one of us and student.
And we're not gonna overovertreat you like you're the
guest of honor.
But not ignore you either.
Uhhuh Actually like fordrop-ins, there's someone that
dropped in today and they'relike, oh, I'm visiting outta
town.
I picked up on this.
one of our purple belts, Danielwas like, oh, they're asking
about drop in fees.
Like, oh, just go train.

(01:15:03):
We'll, we will worry about thatlater.
And that was nice.
Yeah.
That was exactly the example.
It's like we just make itsimple, just train, you're, you
do what we do.
Yeah.
We'll figure out the paymentstuff later.
Yeah.
And it's felt like that whenI've dropped into places.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Any places that stand out toyou?
that you've trained at andtrained with some big names.
Yeah.
it's really fun to seeinstructors really passionate

(01:15:24):
about jiu jitsu.
I remember, when I was like blueor purple, I dropped in into
fight sports with Cyborg.
Abreu Cyborg.
Yeah.
I don't even think he knew whohe was.
Maybe, or maybe just as avisitor.
He showed some moves and thenlike towards the end of the
class, he spent five minuteslike, oh.
Just have to fix this one thing.
And he is like doing it hands onwith me.
Yeah.
And I was like, oh, it's like alittle mini five minute private.

(01:15:46):
Oh good.
But I could tell he really geeksout in jiu jitsu because he's
oh, I love this stuff.
Lemme just show you this thingso you really know it.
Yeah.
And I was like, he didn't haveto.
It was a class of 20 or so.
That stood out.
Another one stood out is when Iwas really active Blue belt.
I dropped into Drysdale, RobertoDrysdale Academy.
The instructor was Sonny Nohara.

(01:16:06):
Like I was really athletic atthe time, blue Belt, like really
in shape.
And Sonny Nohara is like ahundred forty five, a hundred
fifty pound black belt.
And we rolled, he got me intoside control and I couldn't get
out the whole time.
Wow.
And it showed if you have reallygood control and like base and
know how to use your body, itdoesn't matter.

(01:16:26):
It kind of taught me size as afactor, but understanding
position and technique andweight, like it showed, he held
me there the whole time.
And he's 150 pounds.
I was like one 90.
Wow.
So I was like that.
That was just, yeah.
It just made me realize yeah.
How did you really use yourbody's important.
Another one is I dropped intoMarcella Garcia's.
He rolls with everyone, but it'sactually more selective or

(01:16:49):
mostly his students.
So Paul Schriner teaches there.
Paul's an OG from the Bay Areafrom I think Garth Taylor, or
Claudio.
So Paul gave the green light toroll Paul said, Nick is okay to
roll with.
'Cause I'm not trying to liketap Marcello out or prove a
point.
So it was purple belt I rolledwith Marcelo.
It's on his website, MG online.

(01:17:10):
It was just to feel what it'slike to roll with Marcelo Garcia
was like another level becauselike just his technique it's
like learning from a chessmaster and I'm an amateur,
right?
Another thing about MarcelloGarcia that stands out is okay,
and also Dave Camarillo when youroll with them, you understand
why they're so good.
So whenever roll with MarcelloGarcia, if I were to do a

(01:17:31):
scissor sweep and I've toldpeople this.
Like it would be like four orfive moves to do it.
Grab the collar, turn on my bodyslice, like posture up, and then
get on top and it's four or fivemovements.
What makes Marcelos so good isthat he can do all those four or
five movements in one step.
So it's like a bear trap.
Everything sets off at once.
Yeah.
Whereas it's like we have to doincremental steps.

(01:17:53):
So when you watch his footage,you realize like he's doing the
same thing.
He's just snapping intomovements.
All chained together.
Yeah.
and then Dave Camarillo, uh, useof body, what stood out when I
roll with him Is that we just doa lot of traditional movement.
I don't know if you call itMatrix jiu jitsu, but he knows
how to really move the bodywhere it's like different
unorthodox ways that youwouldn't think.

(01:18:13):
Oh, okay.
Yeah.
It's hard to describe.
It's just sort of acrobatic alittle bit more.
versus like just basics, so thatstood out as well.
Yeah.
Awesome.
So in closing now, Your dog is acelebrity at academies.
Tell me more about him.
The one that's been barking.
Yeah.

(01:18:33):
I'm a huge dog person.
I used to bring my old dog tothe academy.
Kaui, I think it's a win-win'cause he enjoys people more
than dogs.
So when I bring him academies,he'll play with the people.
People will play with him.
he's also a very engaging dog.
so yeah, it's, it's fun to bringhim here.
I don't know if he's the, thegym dog or the academy dog.
'cause there's a little dogcalled Bella.

(01:18:55):
It's a little chihuahua that'slike the official, I think,
academy dog, but Kaui's a jiujitsu training companion.
Okay.
So I like to bring himeverywhere I go.
Awesome.
Yeah.
Yeah.
He's so cute.
Yeah.
Outside of jiu jitsu?
What's fueling your curiositythese days?
So, paragliding is like my whitebelt sort of interests.

(01:19:17):
I saw someone doing it inHawaii, in Oahu, and I just was
obsessed with wanting to do it.
Um, just'cause it just lookslike a free art form, just
something really nice whereyou're, you know, like in the
sky and free.
So I took lessons during COVID,and I even got to do a few
flights.
The feeling itself is amazing.
The way I describe it is, if yougo snowboarding or skiing and

(01:19:39):
the chairlift, that when it goesdown slowly yes.
And you're floating down.
it's very similar to that.
But, we're spoiled becausePacifica and San Francisco and
even Monterey'cause you're fromSalinas.
Yeah.
People paraglide in those areasand on certain days, you can do
figure eights and just float forhalf an hour to an hour.
Just gliding along the wind.

(01:20:00):
I'm looking at gettingcertified.
it's really hard.
Actually there's a lot of skillsets to learn to get certified
and, 2025 goal I wanna learn howto do it so I can get certified
and do it on my own.
Sounds like fun.
you could give your younger nickone piece of advice, what would
that be?
younger self advice?
I would say, enjoy the ride,enjoy the process.

(01:20:23):
I remember when I was like blueor purple belt brown, all I
wanted to do was get the nextbelt, like I competed and wanted
to double gold just to.
climb the ladder and, like justaccomplish things.
And once you get the next belt,you know, you can never go back.
That's why like when you're blueand purple, it's fun'cause it's
just like a, it's a time whereyou can just like, try stuff

(01:20:43):
fail, no one's judging you.
Like once you get the next belt,you can never go back.
So just just enjoy it, I'd say.
Yeah.
Enjoy.
Yeah.
What would you say to someonebrand new to jiu jitsu who's
hesitant to take the first step?
Yeah.
I'd probably learn this fromKurt.
It's just jump in there.
You know, like a lot of the timethe fear anxiety is like

(01:21:05):
self-imposed.
And I know the environment's areally good environment.
It's very nurturing.
People wanna help each othersucceed.
but I totally get when you seepeople like trying to strangle
each other and sweat on eachother, it's intimidating.
So I remember there was somestudent that was like a high
belt that they said they walkedby the academy like three or
four times living in SanFrancisco until they actually

(01:21:27):
went in.
And they said, oh yeah, oncethey went in and did the class,
like I loved it.
But I just say, take the leapand I learned that from Kurt's.
Yeah, just jump in.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Any final thoughts or things youhope people take away from
hearing your story?
Yeah, I'd say, um, when you geta chance to give back, it's done
a lot for my life and improvedmy life and enriched it.

(01:21:48):
So I'd say it's a sort of payforward thing.
Okay.
Very pay forward.
Like whenever you get a chance,contribute back to it.
That makes the whole communityeven more enriched, right?
Right.
Because just it feeds on itself.
Positive on top of positive itcompounds.
I'd say that, yeah.
I think that's the simple gistof it.
And then also try everything injiu jitsu if you can.

(01:22:09):
Or maybe that's just me.
There's a reason why I didrefereeing, I helped throw
events.
I did all these things.
because, I think by doing that,you really get to see different
sides of jiu jitsu, not just aslike a competitor or student,
but the event promotion side orKiko or what you do, right?
You just, get differentviewpoints and it enriches

(01:22:29):
yourself as well.
Yeah, I think so too.
So would you like to sayanything about your dojo?
Give some information, whereyou're at, where you can be
found on Instagram.
Sure.
Yeah.
my Instagram is Korean Bomba,Korean, and B-O-M-B-A.
Yeah, I'm starting to get backinto competing.
I'm going to, I sometimes, Idon't like to make a big deal of

(01:22:51):
it.
I like keep it low key, but, I'mstarting to, train more,'cause
I'm gonna start getting backinto competition.
It's been four, like four orfive years or so.
I registered for Brasileiro Nogiin Rio for end of June.
So I'll be in Brazil for 10days.
and then I'm gonna probably doMaster Worlds, on top of that.
And then, give a shout out toControl Industries.
Blaine is a good friend.

(01:23:12):
He's, also saw the earth, likecares about people and he also
is from that jiu jitsu world.
But he's been my sponsor since Ithink Brown Belt in 2015.
Okay.
So Blaine, thanks for what youdo and appreciate you, man.
All right.
Right on.
Okay, Nick, I wanna thank youfor being on my podcast and I'm
looking forward to putting thisone out.
Thank you so much.

(01:23:32):
Cool.
Alright, thanks as well.
And we have a little backgroundbecause we have open mat now, so
Yeah, they're itching.
Okay, let's do it.
Okay, bye.
Thanks.
Bye.