Comments, questions? Let's connect!
Imagine reclaiming the playful, authentic version of yourself that societal norms and professional demands have buried. We sit down with Jenny Doan, a powerhouse keynote speaker, workshop facilitator, and triple Guinness World Record holder for endurance hula hooping, to explore this transformative journey. Jenny shares her inspiring leap from a conventional, unfulfilling career to a life characterised by overseas volunteering, adventurous cycling, and the unexpected joy of hula hooping. Witness her transition and learn how a simple form of play can become a source of profound relaxation and self-discovery.
Through Jenny’s heartfelt narratives, we uncover the importance of personal freedom and the courage to defy societal expectations. She opens up about the struggle of conforming to rigid professional norms and the liberating process of embracing her true self. Discover the surprising positive responses that can emerge when we drop the facade and live genuinely. The conversation also highlights the power of vulnerability and authentic human connections, with Jenny recounting how magnetic, genuine individuals have influenced her journey and the environments she thrived in.
In the final segments, we delve into the practical and philosophical aspects of living authentically. Jenny discusses her frequent relocations and how they served as opportunities to shed inauthentic layers, leading to a clearer understanding of her true purpose. We explore the "blue cheese principle" and its significance in both personal and professional relationships. Join us for this enlightening discussion about overcoming fear, embracing change, and discovering the courage to be unapologetically yourself, fostering deeper connections and a more fulfilling life.
Connect with Jenny
https://www.jennydoan.com.au/
https://www.instagram.com/thejennydoan/
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Jolynne Rydz (00:00):
Hello, I'm Jolynne Rydz and welcome to the
Magnetic Authenticity Podcast.
This is where we level up yourimpact by being more of you.
If you're tired of being toldthat you need to be someone
you're not just to succeed andget anywhere and make a
difference, then you're in theright place, because we are all
(00:22):
about looking at you, yourstrengths, what your gifts are,
how you are best made in thisworld to have an impact, and
harnessing all of that to makeyour strategies come to life.
So if you're looking for moreconfidence, if you're looking
for more influence, if you wantto be heard, seen and be making
(00:42):
more of a difference, thenyou're in the right spot and I
can't wait to explore all ofthis with you together.
Is this it?
Do you wonder if you are trulyliving up to your potential?
I'm Jolynne Rydz from theMagnetic Authenticity Podcast,
and today's guest is passionateabout helping you unlock your
(01:06):
amazing gifts, using life'sexperiences and challenges as an
unofficial roadmap to greatness.
Jenny Doan Joan is a keynotespeaker and workshop facilitator
who holds not one, not two, butthree Guinness World Records
for endurance.
Hula hooping.
She discovered that the path togreatness isn't just about
(01:28):
hardcore resilience or habitstacking.
It starts with becoming theperson who dares to dream bigger
and make it happen.
Jenny is super excited to showus how to be unofficially
amazing and unleash ourgreatness within.
Welcome to the podcast, Jenny,so excited
tohave
you.
Jenny Doan (01:46):
Thank you for having me.
I'm excited to be here.
Yes, fantastic, wonderful.
Jolynne Rydz (01:50):
So we obviously know each other, but it would be
great for our listeners tolearn a little bit more about
you.
So I'd love for you to start bytelling us a little bit about
your journey to get to where youare today and this burning
question that I have have, whichis what made you choose hula
hooping.
Jenny Doan (02:09):
Oh, of course, I think that my journey started
off probably quite similar to alot of people.
Where I was born in AustraliaVietnamese immigrant parents and
I had that very you knowpurposeful drive through life to
get that good job, goodeducation and set myself up.
But, like a lot of people, Irealized that it wasn't as
(02:32):
exciting as I thought it wouldbe or as exciting as I thought.
I was sitting in a cubicle andthinking, oh, like is this?
It Am I just meant to sit in anoffice until I retire and then
I get to go and do other things.
And roughly about 10 years agoI decided that it was kind of
not working for me and I had togo figure out what that actually
(02:53):
was.
And so I spent something like10 years just getting out of my
comfort zone and just doingthings that initially were scary
, and then realizing that, ah,you can figure things out, you
can adapt and you can change,and who you are isn't fixed or
predetermined or anything likethat.
So I found myself travelingoverseas, doing volunteer work
(03:16):
overseas, cycling in differentcountries, and then, when I
moved to the US, the hulaulahooping started, and I think
that was partially because Imissed out on a lot of playtime
as a child.
I had a very serious sort ofupbringing where I had to be the
responsible one and a part ofme just missed that element of
(03:39):
play, just doing somethingpurely for fun.
And when I looked around and Irealized that the majority of
hula hooping is like dance orlike tricks and circus kind of
stuff, I completely bombed atall that stuff.
Like people assume that I'm anamazing dancer because I can
hula hoop and I'm like no, onceI lose the hula hoop, I don't
(04:02):
know, know what to do.
It's like a security hula hoop,pretty much Like inside this,
like force field.
I'm perfectly safe, yeah.
And that's when I Googled youknow what, if people don't want
to do tricks, like what is theother like side of hula hooping?
And that's when I found thatthere was a Guinness World
Record from Aaron Hibbs he wasthe previous record holder who'd
(04:23):
hula hoops for about 75 hours.
And I thought like, oh, I thinkI could do that.
I watched his video and I sawhim just like fighting the hula
hoop, Like he was hula hoopingreally fast, and I thought, well
, hula hooping is like for meit's like relaxing.
You have to physically let go,you have to let your shoulders
(04:46):
drop, unclench your jaw and feelthe hula hoop.
Yeah, yeah, like there's somuch of it that like just
loosens everything up and Ithought if I could do that a
little bit better than him, then75 hours I could stretch that
out and then set my own record.
Jolynne Rydz (05:05):
Oh, that's incredible, and I really want to
acknowledge you for what yousaid right at the start of the
story about recognising thatyou're sitting in this cubicle
and is this it?
Is this all?
We've been taught that this ismeant to be success and this is
meant to make us feel great, butI don't know if I don't think
it's working for me and, yeah, Iwant to acknowledge that
(05:26):
because I think there's a lot ofpeople that feel that way but
it takes courage to step out ofthat and firstly recognize it
and then go no, let's dosomething about this.
So thank you for sharing that.
It's possible, and that'salmost like the starting point,
isn't it?
Jenny Doan (05:39):
Because I feel like it was tricky, because you find
that something isn't working foryou, but then you don't know
what would.
It's because there's no answerlike, oh, then do the opposite
of that, but like that could bean infinite number of
possibilities yeah and I thinkit was my, I guess I had a lot
of stubbornness to a degree,like no, that's not it, that's
not it, and then just likewhittling it down, and I feel
(06:02):
like for most people there canbe like little, like little
jumps rather than like going toanother country.
It can just be like tweakingthings, like being in different
social circles, like picking upa hobby they've always wanted to
do but felt shy about, and Ifeel like hobbies and things
like that are a really goodentry into that sort of
(06:23):
curiosity and exploration,because when you start off,
you're a beginner and you'reallowed to be bad at something
and nobody's expecting you to bethe prodigy.
That's like, oh my god, mozart,this is the first time you've
ever played in Michigan.
Like in your mind you might behoping that you'll, you know,
somehow be a genius, but for themajority of us it's like oh, we
(06:44):
could just do this thing.
And it's not about, like theKPIs that we have at work or
like this super megaproductivity, how to like
maximize our like potential allin one hit.
It's just like slowly, likeinching towards like the edges
of your boundaries, of what youthink you're capable of, and
then that sort of process getsless painful or less scary.
(07:05):
The more you sort of do it likeyou build that confidence yeah,
yeah, it's like a muscle thatyou've got to.
Jolynne Rydz (07:11):
You've got to exercise.
Yeah, the other thing that cameto mind as you were sharing
your story is I.
I've been facilitating aleadership program for a while
and actually use the hula hoopas a metaphor, like I've had one
on the ground, and I step inand it's, it's, it's the comfort
zone, and then I teach peoplethat if you step out of it,
that's where the magic happens.
So it's almost like expandingthat circle that you've got
(07:34):
going around you and just tryingthings.
So you've told us how you got towhere you are today.
I'd love to know what are someexciting projects or initiatives
you're currently working on.
Jenny Doan (07:47):
Yeah.
So I think, having all thatexperience and knowledge,
distilling that into, first ofall, words because it lives in
my body and in my mind and in myimagination, but beginning to
put together my message ofunofficially amazing, which I
feel like is kind of like a playon words, in terms of Guinness
(08:08):
World Records talks aboutofficially amazing when you make
it in the book and theneverything else in life, that's
also amazing.
We should give that some credittoo, because that's pretty cool
and it's part of like myoverall message is to get people
to be willing to look atthemselves and what sort of do
(08:28):
they have at the moment or theydon't have that they want to
change about themselves or theirlives, and what are the
actionable things they can do toget there.
And I feel like a big part ofit is by doubling down on being
you, and so when you talk aboutmagnetic authenticity, I feel
like that's an ingredient youhave to have, because there's a
(08:48):
million people out there thatare saying like, be like a CEO
and wake up before I am and docold showers, and so many people
are like, if I can't do that,then I'm not resilient and I'm
not this and therefore I'm notsuccessful or whatever, but I
feel like there are so manyother things that we have inside
where we can exercise that sameexpression or that strength
within that we just leave on thetable because it's not that
(09:13):
professional or not thatprescribed by everybody else.
Yeah, and I want people to sortof dig inside to find that, and
I'm working on building onlinecourses so that people can start
to practice that in their owntime, and then in-person
workshops where I can actuallyget people to talk about what's
(09:34):
holding them back and the thingsthat they've learned over time
and share a lot of thatknowledge, because so many of
our family and friends have donecool things that we don't even
know about.
And when you start to thingsthat we don't even know about
and when you start to realizethat people like you or people
close to you have doneextraordinary things, it makes
you realize that it's possibleand within your reach.
It's not just like celebritiesand all these other people and
(09:57):
influencers, it's like peopleyou already know.
Jolynne Rydz (09:59):
Yeah, and it's often extraordinary, isn't it?
Jenny Doan (10:03):
Because it's not something you would have thought
of doing, or maybe notsomething you would have done,
but when you look at the thingitself, like it's not
necessarily this unattainablegoal is what I'm hearing had
(10:24):
done a whole bunch of cyclingwhere I learned like the
endurance aspect of endurancehula hooping, which was the slow
, incremental movement as youget stronger because I felt like
as a kid I was always pickedlike dead last at sport, like I
wasn't very fast and have greatstrength, and I thought, well,
that's what fit people have,they're lifting dead, lifting
weights, and like I can't dothat or I don't enjoy doing that
(10:48):
.
More importantly, so what's init for me?
And then I realized that thereis a whole endurance category of
sport where you're not liftingsuper heavy stuff or you're
moving super fast, you're justmoving like really slowly over
time and that just fit me like aglove.
Oh, you mean, I could do itwithout being out of breath and
(11:10):
feeling like I'm going toexplode.
I can enjoy it my way.
And I feel like there are somany of us that get into an
activity and we write it off aslike that's not for me, but we
haven't found like our way to doit.
Yeah, and so we've written itoff as not us, but I feel like
it's time for us to revisit someof those things, kind of like
(11:30):
when you're a kid and you hatemushrooms and then you come as
an adult.
I've only been eating the slimy, mushy ones.
Jolynne Rydz (11:40):
I haven't sauteed them with butter and herbs yeah,
yeah, or barbecue, the barbecue, barbecue mushroom exactly oh,
it's so good.
So much potential that was justuntapped until you know you get
in there, yeah, and I love whatyou've just shared because I
think it applies to leadershipso much in terms of often
there's all this pressure andthere's these really big goals
(12:02):
that people are aiming for, butit's those small, consistent
steps that get us there, isn'tit?
And that feeling that just youknow, be yourself with it and go
with the flow.
Jenny Doan (12:12):
Yeah, and it feels natural, as opposed to you
putting on a costume and thenthinking like what lines or what
would I say in this situation,and just ignoring the answers
that you already have.
Jolynne Rydz (12:23):
Yeah, it takes so much more energy.
One of your key messages, jenny, is around personal growth and
fun and intertwined, and I lovethis because I feel that a lot
of workplaces and even lifewe're getting too serious.
So can you tell our listenersabout how you came to this
(12:44):
intersection between personalgrowth and fun and why do you
think it's so important rightnow?
Jenny Doan (12:51):
there's a lot of internal programming that we
experience when we want to dosomething that's purely fun or
purely silly, and sometimes thatcomes out as like people are
going to make fun of me or saythat it's stupid and all these
things and that just thought canstop us from doing things.
But I found that when you startspending time with people and
(13:15):
unraveling who you are andsharing that with people, when
you start to share some of thoseideas, the rejection you're
expecting doesn't actually showup.
That often rarely, if anythingand you realize that it was just
in your head, your ownprogramming, or your parents or
adults had said to you whenyou're a kid, and it puts the
(13:36):
brakes on things before you evengive them a chance, and then a
lot of people who do criticizeit probably don't have much fun
themselves.
So I want to see you going outthere, gallivants, you're having
a good time, and then a lot ofpeople who do criticize it
probably don't have much funthemselves.
Don't want to see you going outthere gallivanting and having a
good time and I feel like that'sthe first barrier that you
overcome is the permission.
Yeah, and it's bizarre becausewhen you're a kid you assume
that as an adult you havefreedom and you create the
(13:59):
permission.
But sometimes we just like getfreedom and then we just like
climb back into the little rulesand little cage that no one
like, there's no lock, there'sno key, we just like climb
inside and part of that was justlike a reclaiming of my life
and like being playful, beingsilly and you know, I'd worked
(14:21):
as a data analyst since thestart of my career and a lot of
that is male dominated and sobeing silly or anything like
that is seen as weakness and allthese things.
But you just get used toputting that on when you go to
work and then you forget to takeit off when you get home.
And as I started to get awayfrom that and realizing that
that wasn't for me, I startedthinking what do I put in its
(14:44):
place?
Because it can't just be a voidlike, I can't just be blank and
neutral.
Now, what do I do with thisextra like capacity?
And then I just I just foundthat it was such an outlet like
you have all this pent-up, lackof expression or just things you
wanted to do that were juststifled, and as you peel away at
(15:05):
it and it just comes outnaturally, it's just a very like
getting in touch with you.
Some people call it like yourinner child or what have you,
but it just becomes easy, likeyou're not having to like
calculate and be analytical anddo all that stuff.
You start to listen to your gutand your instinct and you
wonder like what are you doingall that time?
(15:26):
It's like putting it on mute orsomething.
Jolynne Rydz (15:30):
Yeah, it's just very liberating yeah, it's like
we've been programmed to be onthis autopilot to to trust these
rules that keep us safe, andthen we don't know what to do or
how to step out of thatprogramming.
Wow absolutely.
Jenny Doan (15:45):
And then I found that when you share things with
people, they're kind of likerelieved, like, oh, thank god,
someone else feels this way, butpeople don't always want to be
the first person, and so I wasalso surprised like the number
of people who like positively,responded to just like random
silly things, like Like you know, in my Instagram videos I have
like soft toys and things andPokemon, and before I would like
(16:09):
hide them away before I hitrecord, because I was like
people are going to think I'm achild, but then people are like,
oh, I watch that show or I dothis and that, and it's just
like human, like it's just veryhuman to enjoy these things.
And I think the criticism thatwill be perceived in a certain
way is so inflated in our headsbecause 90% of people are like
(16:30):
in their own heads they're notthinking about you, or they
think about you for a second andthen they go back to their life
and whatever judgment they hadabout you like evaporates.
No, we like hold onto it asthough it's like gospel, or as
though like it's this damning,like you know it's like gospel,
or as though like it's thisdamning, like you know,
statement on our character, butit's just like fleeting thoughts
and words sometimes and I feellike as we start to like shed
(16:53):
that sort of external validationand just listen to on the
inside, like how we feel andwhat we want to do with
ourselves, we don't get soworried about what other people
will think as that sort of goesdown.
Just just that energy gets to,you know, redistribute to other
stuff, which is I don't knowmore, I guess, fruitful, just
(17:13):
less annoying, I suppose.
Jolynne Rydz (17:15):
Yeah, it's like you're taking that energy that
was protecting you from this onetime, maybe a couple of times
where you got burnt, but reallythat was a minority, it's not
everything.
Yay, we're all loaded with allthis energy times where you got
burnt but really that that was aminority.
Jenny Doan (17:28):
It's not everything.
And then, wow, I'm exploding.
Jolynne Rydz (17:31):
So you've already mentioned magnetic authenticity
and for this podcast, it's allabout using that to level up
your leadership impact.
Could you recall a time, jenny,where someone in your life had
this energy around them, whereyou were just drawn to them and
what they're about, and whatimpact that had on you and how
has it shaped the person you aretoday?
Jenny Doan (17:50):
yeah, it was my friend.
I met well while I was in Tongaon that volunteer assignment
and he's the one that got meinto cycling and I remember
seeing him on his bike and itlooked like the bike was just
part of his body.
There was no like you know himand bike and where it ends.
And I remember someone had um,sold him one of those really
(18:11):
tall pedestal fans, so he pickedit up and then just rode it
home like under his arm and theother hand, that's incredible.
It was just like how are youdoing this?
Like it just seems like natural, like you're just like like
like you're holding a baguette,like it was.
And he had such like a freedomin his life where he didn't
(18:34):
waste time with like negativityor anything like that.
But he wasn't blindfullyoptimistic, like if there was a
truthful thing that he had totell you that might hurt your
feelings.
If it comes from like kindnessand he has your permission, he
genuinely wants you to like knowthis, to improve your life in
some way.
He's not going to let you walkaround with like parsley in your
(18:56):
teeth and stuff.
And I feel like that kindnessand strength together was just
such a welcoming energy that hegave as much as he could and was
in the moment to enjoy thepresent.
I feel like it just seemed likehe had such confidence because
(19:17):
it didn't seem like he was likesecond guessing every single
thing or trying to be liked bythis person or this group.
He just was.
And yeah, he ended up getting meinto cycling, which then
fundamentally changed my life,and like I feel like, even if I
wouldn't like tell him that Iprobably have he's like cool,
(19:38):
like he's not like gonna takeall the credit for it or
anything like that.
He's just the person that aspeople rub shoulders with him or
move through life, just picksomething off him and then just
carry it on in their ownexpression.
And it's just fascinatingbecause he didn't do anything
like, he didn't seek out to tryand change lives.
(19:59):
He was just being himselfaround you and if there's
anything you wanted that hecould do, he would yeah, yeah
there's so much power in justbeing yourself around people
isn't it.
Yeah, and I think because he wasso sure of himself and so open
anyone could ask anything and hejust had all that knowledge
that he knew and that he ownedand he made it his own so that
(20:22):
you could see how you couldemulate bits of it or take parts
of it and then make it your own, that it didn't have to be
prescribed in some way and youdidn't have to be one of those
people who like wins at allcosts to step over other people.
No, that's just like anarchetype.
That's, I don't know, popularin movies, but in real life
these are real people that areactually good at heart and you
(20:44):
just gravitate towards thosepeople and it just yeah, it just
blew my mind because there wasjust that gentleness to him and
it wasn't weakness.
But growing up, oftentimesyou're told that like being weak
or crying and all this sort ofthings like vulnerability is
like a bad thing yeah but it'slike knowing yourself so much
(21:05):
that being vulnerable is okay.
And I think I just saw a lot ofthat in him, where he would like
, want to know, like how you'redoing, not just like what you've
been doing, but like how you'refeeling, yeah, and it's just
like, not like wanting a, youknow, a stock standard response,
but he genuinely cared and thatwas just such like a breath of
(21:27):
fresh air.
Jolynne Rydz (21:28):
Yeah, I have this torn feeling when you say it's
such a breath of fresh air,because I wish it was common,
but it's not.
Jenny Doan (21:34):
Yeah, yeah.
Jolynne Rydz (21:37):
Like I've had toxic leaders in my career and
I've had the completely oppositeend of amazing leaders, and
it's like a warm hug when theysay no, how are you feeling, not
how's the work going.
Jenny Doan (21:46):
You, how are?
Jolynne Rydz (21:47):
you going it's so, so powerful.
Jenny Doan (21:51):
Yeah, yeah, feeling not how's the work going?
You, how are you going?
It's so so powerful, yeah, yeah, and I think like the fact that
they go out of their way tolike care in that way, and then
you just feel like if there isanything you need, that it's
easy for you to be open now,because there's none of that
like barrier in between and it'sjust something that you know,
probably isn't taught intextbooks.
To ask someone you know howthey're doing, yeah, but it's
such like a human response and Ifeel like sometimes the irony
(22:13):
of being in like a corporate oroffice environment is that we
know what's like in our instinctto be human and then there's
like the rules or like thesocial norms it's they.
They contradict what we know tobe true, but then we're in this
environment where we don'treally know where to go with
that, depending on their rankand hierarchy and politics and
(22:35):
all these things that complicatesomething that is otherwise
quite simple.
Jolynne Rydz (22:40):
Yeah, yeah, there's so many.
I work in organisationaldevelopment and there's so many
big initiatives that get put inplace to solve what you've just
said, which is a fundamentaljust be human.
You don't have to do this fancyprogram just get everyone in a
position where they can becomfortable and be human.
Jenny Doan (22:58):
Yeah, yeah, and I feel like the it's.
It's so different, um,different because in a social
setting, the trust and likesafety to be yourself, the
stakes are so much lower becauseit's just a friendship, as
opposed to you're going intothis job and it could be, you
know, years that you're there,or your career and all these
things, and then it sort of hasthis other element where there's
(23:20):
that filter and the more fieldsthat get applied.
You're just spending so muchtime thinking about what to do
rather than doing and beingStuff actually matters and makes
a difference.
Jolynne Rydz (23:34):
Yeah, that should be a bumper sticker doing and
being.
Jenny Doan (23:37):
The stuff that actually matters and makes a
difference.
Jolynne Rydz (23:39):
Yeah, yeah.
Jenny, you mentioned in one ofyour talks that you believe our
mission in life is to becometruly unapologetically, us, and
that is so aligned with magneticauthenticity.
And could you share with us howyou, how you, came to that?
Jenny Doan (23:55):
I think that because I moved countries so often and
cities, I had the opportunity tocompletely remove the mask of
who I was, because when you moveto a place where nobody knows
you, you don't gain anythingfrom maintaining that facade.
Jolynne Rydz (24:12):
Ah, and that's the hack.
Jenny Doan (24:14):
I just gotta move, figure it out and then come back
.
And I didn't realize it until Icame back and my friends
probably thought that like had apersonality change or something
, because you weren't like thiswhen you left.
What happened in that timeperiod?
That changed and I think itbecame like almost comical that
(24:35):
I would just keep changing overand over again, like what's
going to come out next.
It's just like a futureadventure situation.
But I felt like every time Istarted to shed something that
isn't really me anymore or wasmore cumbersome to maintain than
to keep going, I felt that itjust opened up another
opportunity.
(24:56):
And I feel like when I did a lot, a lot of that more often, I
started to find it more easilyto figure out what opportunities
actually match me, because Iused to be a chronic like list,
slash, spreadsheet like personwhen it came to opportunities
like this one's good for thisreason, but this one's on this
(25:17):
one, and then try and like, havelike some like rubric to figure
out which is like and it's like, no, like that's all like up in
here in their head andsometimes like it's not that
reliable, sometimes it's a bitdodgy, and I started just to
realize like what fits me and Ithink some people call it
personal brand or your identitybut it's like that litmus test
(25:41):
of like is this something that'sgonna make me shine or
something that is naturallyplaying to my strengths, versus
me just trying to fit in andlike that will look cool.
Other people will think that'simpressive.
And then it just made mydecision making process a lot
easier because you filter out alot of the noise that is
maintaining some facade aboutyou, or this is where you've
(26:02):
always done things.
So this is like a continuationof that and it starts to become
like the compass for you to knowlike what is actually important
to you and you don't have to.
You don't feel as swayed orpeer pressured by other things
that have led you to situationswhere you've worked really hard
at something and realize like90% of the way in that you
didn't actually want it butyou're like, oh, I'm stuck, I'm
(26:25):
in now, yeah pretty much when Ilook back at my like choices
with jobs and things, theinstances where it's gone wrong.
I hadn't listened to that gutfeeling.
And you can't really understandthe gut feeling until you
understand yourself and who thatis and you actually practice
being that person, whereas Ifeel like sometimes we feel like
we're most ourselves when we'realone in our room or we're
(26:47):
hanging out with this person,but then when we start to hang
out with other people, we havelike versions of ourselves that
are different and fragmented andkind of like forgetting who you
are at your core.
And then by the time you go tomake life decisions and things
and it doesn't line up oh,because I've been spending 90%
of my time with somebody elseand that's us making your
(27:07):
decisions, and then now thisperson's stuck, with the result
of that, yeah, and I'm reallycurious, jenny, because you sort
of mentioned that you shedyourself and then head on to the
next opportunity.
Jolynne Rydz (27:17):
Was that like a conscious thing that you did, or
was it more on reflection?
You noticed that was what youwere doing.
Jenny Doan (27:23):
I think it was probably for me, making a big
change sort of forced me to sheda lot of it.
I feel like if I were justgoing about my day and I made a
challenge myself to be moremyself.
There are so many opportunitiesto me to just chicken out and
just not.
Yeah, I'm gonna start that diettoday.
(27:46):
Yeah, but I'm gonna keep myentire life the same and not
change anything.
Because I feel like physicallychanging your environment puts
you in a position where youdon't have a choice but to go.
And I think when I looked atendurance cycling, I picked
starting in one spot Vancouverand then cycling to Montreal.
You have to go forward.
(28:07):
If you go back youraccommodation, you've already
paid for it.
You can't go back to where youstarted.
You have to go forward.
If you go back youraccommodation, you've already
paid for it.
Like, go back to where youstarted.
You have to keep going, yes,even if it takes you longer.
Or you have to crawl and it'ssort of taking that option away
for you to bail or quit and bymoving to a different place, or
it's like when you start a newjob, you have to put yourself
(28:27):
out there and meet new peopleand introduce yourself and do
all these things that you neverwould have had to do, and part
of it is like front-loading thehard part by like ripping
yourself out or doing the thingthat's scary, but then trusting
that once you get there, yourbrain figures it out, yeah, and
(28:47):
I think that's the hard leapwhere you feel like what if I
get to the other side and I justlike don't figure it out or I
fail?
But then you think of yourhistory and you're like what are
all the other times I've donesomething new.
We've all gone to primaryschool or high school, been in
totally new environments, andthen you were fine, yeah, move
to a new suburb or start a newjob and do all these like new
(29:11):
things.
The fact that we all learnedhow to walk is like pretty cool.
Learn how to ride a bicycle andyou say like dad, don't let go
of the seat, and you're reallymad.
And then you're like riding ontwo wheels.
Okay, I understand why you didthat it's like this trust in
ourselves is harder to to buildup than our trust in the people
around us that's something thatI find really, really tricky,
(29:33):
because it's so easy to see theskills in other people and then
measure yourself against themand then feel bad about yourself
, but then you don't be like, oh, what are the things that I'm
doing really well, that someoneelse might be jealous of or
someone else might notice, butI'm like standing too close to
it and so I just don't see ityeah, and I'd love to draw this
(29:53):
out like bigger picture.
Jolynne Rydz (29:54):
So, if you're unapologetically you, what do
you think are some of thechallenges that we could be
solving if we can get more andmore people stepping into that?
Jenny Doan (30:03):
yeah, I think a big thing is loneliness, because the
fear of putting yourself outthere stops a lot of people.
But how is anybody ever supposedto like, like you, love you or
embrace you if you don'tactually share anything
meaningful about yourself?
Yeah, because we all start withlike the surface, like you know
(30:24):
what do you do for work, andthen you have like social
conversations you know what areyou watching on netflix but then
there's things that are likeclose to our hearts or things
that we're passionate about, andwhen we share them and then we
make connections that way,people start to get insight.
On a more personal, like deeperlevel, there's always like the
possibility that when you sharesomething, someone might reject
(30:45):
it, and I think a big part ofthat is like accepting that
that's going to happen.
But the reality is that out ofa million people, you're not
going to be friends with amillion people exactly.
You'd be very busy, yeah.
Yeah, like you kind of want tofilter it out.
If there's someone that hasnothing in common with you, they
don't like you.
It doesn't mean you're a badperson or they're a bad person,
(31:08):
you're just not compatible.
So then you just filter it downto find the people that do
embrace you and like you, and Ifeel like that's the thing that
encourages other people to comeout, because when you don't see
it, you feel like you're theonly one.
And then, as you start to sharethese stories about yourself,
and other people start sayinglike, oh, I've experienced that
(31:30):
when I had a made a was anInstagram reel about the fact
that I actually dropped out ofhigh school.
Being a high school dropout,you associated with all these
negative things and at the timeit felt like the biggest failure
of my life, because I was like17, like there's nothing more
you really can fail at, and itwas such like a big, defining
part of my life.
(31:51):
But then you fast forward 10,15 years later, 25, however many
years, it doesn't matter.
But then there are lots ofother people who had similar
struggles and they always feltlike they were stupid or
whatever it was, and then theylearned that that's not the case
at all.
It's just these circumstanceshappen and you can connect with
other people through that andnow they see another side of you
(32:13):
and they can connect with youon that level and then they can
share something that they mighthave never shared with someone
before.
Yeah, because I feel like inlife we're always going through
things and the saddest part iswhen you go through hardship
alone because you feel likethere's no one else out there
and I feel like we don't knowwhen these things are going to
(32:34):
happen.
But when we have relationshipsand friendships with people that
we build over time, we knowthat we have that safety net and
then we can support each otherand use our own adversities to
like support and reducesuffering for other people and
it kind of comes full circle,kind of like paying it forward
to help the next person.
But I feel like there is thatleap of faith and I feel like it
(32:58):
starts with yourself being ableto be fully honest with
yourself, like in the mirror,who you are, and then, as you
start to share that, you startto reinforce that and then that
becomes your norm but, it's likea lot of those like small,
incremental, like trustexercises, and the scary part
might be that you end up losingsome friends in the process,
(33:20):
because not everybody is readyfor that or not everybody, you
know, wants change.
They might like you as thatversion, but then that just
leaves room for people who doembrace you, because I don't
really want friends that justtolerate like, oh, she's doing
that thing again.
I want people to be like hell,yeah, and I feel like I don't
(33:41):
know, because so many of ourfriends can be through proximity
, like previously from school orfrom high school, from uni, and
then we have to like change ourproximity, our proximity.
Like you know how we met duringour boot camp for like public
speaking and that's like one ofthe top scariest things in the
world for most people, and I gotto meet you and other
(34:02):
like-minded people that wedidn't have to explain like why
are you doing that?
That seems crazy.
Yeah, we chose to do this.
Yeah.
And we like why are you doingthat?
That seems crazy.
Yeah, we chose to do this.
Are we crazily?
Get a kick out of it?
Yeah, yeah, we're definitelygonna get along now, and it's
just those signals I feel likethat.
You put yourself in situationswhere you're with those people
(34:24):
because you've eliminated a lotof those.
What are people gonna think?
Blah, blah, like they're notthinking that or they might be,
but we both show up and then wecan support each other and have
a laugh and it's just like avery different experience
Because we were doing somethingthat both scared us, yeah, but
then did it anyway, and thenjust together like saw in each
(34:45):
other, like what it means toovercome something, yeah, and
then just get frequentlyreminded that we're all on these
different journeys and seeinghow you do and seeing how I do
and other people just showspeople that there's more than
one way to success.
And I think that as, like awoman, you know, person of color
and all that stuff, you justdon't see your types of people
(35:09):
doing these things and it makesit seem like it's either not
possible or it just hasn't beendone yet.
Jolynne Rydz (35:15):
Yeah, and then it's all scary because you're
the first one trying yeah,you're like where's everyone
else?
Come on, where is everyone?
There was so much in that, andI think one of the first things
I heard was that you almost haveto stop judging yourself, and
then the people around you haveroom to not do that as well.
And then the second key point Iheard in that was that there's
(35:40):
your self-worth.
Your own view of yourself-worth defines the quality
of the relationships that youallow around you, right?
So you don't want to wantfriends that just tolerate you,
but people do do that, becauseit's scary to let go of that if
that, if that's all you have atthe moment.
So do you have a tip, maybejust one tip that would help
(36:03):
people be more?
Do you have a tip, maybe justone tip, that would help people
be more unapologetically them?
Jenny Doan (36:07):
Yeah, so it's.
One of the concepts I've comeup with is the blue cheese
principle.
Jolynne Rydz (36:12):
Yes.
Jenny Doan (36:13):
That not everyone is going to like you, but the
right people will love you.
Yeah, I love you.
I love blue cheese Exactly.
If blue cheese were less smellyor less know itself, you know
people would be like, oh, Iguess it's kind of good, but
when it's 100% itself, you'relike hell.
Yeah, like, give me some moreof that blue cheese.
(36:35):
Exactly.
If you can't hide blue cheese,it is very much there, so lean
into it.
I feel like, yeah, that's thething that you're sort of
banking on, that it doesn't haveto be likable to everybody,
because no individual will be,no person that's genuinely being
themselves is likeable toeveryone.
Jolynne Rydz (36:55):
It's like if they are, I'm concerned so you've had
a lot of transitions in yourlife and your career has
straddled both corporate and thepublic sector worlds and I
wanted to ask you thesequestions because, from my
background in human resourcesand organisational development,
I often hear or see bias thatcomes in where someone says, oh
(37:17):
that person from corporate,they're not going to be able to
navigate the bureaucracy of thepublic sector, and vice versa,
so that person from public,they're not going to be able to
hack it in corporate.
So I'd love to know yourperspective in terms of what are
the opportunities when someoneactually moves to different
sectors.
Jenny Doan (37:33):
Yeah, I think you definitely bring all the
experience and knowledge withyou, especially where you're in,
because I went from federalgovernment, corporate,
non-profit startup tech, so I'vehad like a good seasoning.
And I think the biggest thingis when you're in government
you're like these are all thingsI wish I could do if I had the
(37:55):
budget.
And then you move into acorporate where you do have a
massive budget and you're like,oh yeah, these are all the
things that I wish I could do if.
But then there's like anotherlimitation where it's like time
or money.
So you get used to dealing withdifferent constraints and then,
in another environment, youdon't have those constraints and
you get to use your brain in adifferent way and I think it's
the creativity to figure outlike what's going to work and
(38:17):
what hasn't worked, and justexercising your brain in a
different way so you don't gettunnel vision, because I found
that sometimes, being in thesame place for too long, you
might end up just like, oh,that's never going to work.
That's never going to workbecause you've only ever seen
like one model, you've only seenlike a five-year plan, you've
never seen something done inlike a three-month sprint, and
(38:39):
so when you cross the other side, you get to see those and then
incorporate the best of bothworlds.
And I think when you look at anindividual, whether or not they
would cut it in a company, Ifeel like it's more important to
figure out what theirmotivation is, because if they
want to like join a company andthey want to break the rules and
be disruptive and move reallyfast, it's not because of their
(39:00):
background that probably isgoing to make them a tricky fit.
It's probably that the pace andthe culture of what they like
just isn't there, whereas I feellike there could be like
departments within a slow-movingorganisation that are made for
that specific type ofpersonality.
And I think it's a matter offiguring out what the person is
best at and what they thrive atand how they can contribute that
(39:23):
to the group.
Because I feel like if you keephiring the same persons, do the
same thing, you get the sameresults, and so it's like a risk
to bring in something that's alittle bit different.
But then the wealth of knowledgethat they bring, that you don't
necessarily read in a textbook,you get to like inject that
into your company without havingto do a whole training program
(39:44):
to get everybody to understandwhat know they already know
built in within them, yeah it'slike really harnessing that,
that that person's strength andwho they are and just letting it
out yeah yeah, because I feellike that change can like be
that sort of pinwheel that thentriggers change somewhere else
and then just like a fresh setof eyes in terms of being able
(40:05):
to see things that other peopleare missing, or to just bring a
different edge to things, tojust really bring some more life
to it and just differences andchallenging ideas and like the
norm of this is how we've alwaysdone things.
I feel like sometimes that'sthe thing that stops a lot of
innovation, where we getstagnant in that and we don't
know what the thing is.
(40:26):
That would move us out of it.
And so if you have someonethat's done it before, like hire
them, let's try it.
Jolynne Rydz (40:35):
You've shared very generously about your story and
the changes you've gone to andhow you know just ripped the
bandaid off in new places andnew learnings.
What do you want down the trackin the future?
I'm really curious.
What do you want your legacy tobe?
Jenny Doan (40:50):
Yeah.
So I feel like keynote speakingis a very big and broad area in
terms of getting on stage andtalking to hundreds or thousands
of people, but it was actuallya keynote presenter, todd
Sampson, who prompted me toactually sign up to beat the
Guinness World Record, becauseit had been a pipe dream for a
(41:13):
long time.
I never actually put pen topaper and did anything until I
heard him speak.
So I feel like my legacy wouldbe out of all of the people that
I would present to, or theywould see me in some way that I
get them to like turn towardstheir goal and like make like a
small step, because I feel likeit's crazy to want someone to
(41:34):
like immediately jump after oneconversation with you and be so
enlightened.
But it's kind of like youinspire someone just to look at
least look at their goal, andthen someone else comes in and
then they have their ownexperience and start walking
towards it.
And if you could zoom out inlife and see how many times
that's happened or what's thelike, the ripple effect, you
(41:57):
know 10 years later for thatperson and the like exponential
like effect of that yeah that'swhat I want to do, because I
know that there's greatness ineveryone yeah and it's not that
they're not capable of it, it'sthat they just have to like, let
it out.
and we all have that crazy dreamor that crazy thing, and it's
just like poking, it's like I'mrooting for you, yeah.
Jolynne Rydz (42:26):
And we all need someone in our corner, I think,
rooting for us, and that's themagic of what you're doing and
what you're sharing.
Yeah, so I would like to bringus home with seven swift
questions, and so these are justquick questions, quick answers,
no need to overthink them, justa bit of fun.
Jenny Doan (42:42):
Up for it, yes, so first question In your view,
what are three words to describean ideal leader?
Trustworthy, visionary and veryhuman.
Yes, yeah, yep, not overlordsright.
Yeah overlords.
Jolynne Rydz (43:04):
It's funny though.
Jenny Doan (43:07):
They don't actually teach that you know.
Jolynne Rydz (43:08):
In a lot of leadership programs they don't
teach me that how to not be anoverlord.
Okay, question two.
Jenny Doan (43:15):
Fill in the blank magnetic authenticity is being
so you, that people can't helpbut be drawn to you, beautiful.
Jolynne Rydz (43:26):
Number three.
When you notice yourself tryingto fit in, what's the first
thing that you do?
Jenny Doan (43:32):
It's way too much thinking, analyzing every single
thing in the room like it'slike a scenario, as opposed to
just being a person.
Do you pull out the spreadsheet?
You might mind like doing allthe calculations.
Jolynne Rydz (43:48):
Question number four what song gets you really
pumped?
Jenny Doan (43:52):
I think I Am the Tiger.
If I remember it, jump in.
That is such a good song.
Jolynne Rydz (43:56):
I agree.
It's up there on my list Numberfive.
What's the most daring thingyou've ever done?
Jenny Doan (44:09):
Let's say the Guinness World Records, but
that's too obvious.
I think last year drivingacross the Nullarbor to move to
Melbourne, just getting in myCorolla and just going for it.
Jolynne Rydz (44:21):
Definitely yep.
And number six.
Do you have a favorite quote ormantra that you live by?
Jenny Doan (44:27):
be more.
It's the title of an episode ofadventure time.
Yeah, that little robot.
Yeah, I love it.
I have to look it up, I'mintrigued.
Jolynne Rydz (44:38):
And number seven, what's one small thing that
brings you incredible joy?
Jenny Doan (44:43):
Mr Banana, I'll bring him.
Oh, J-E-N-N-Y-D-O-A-N.
(45:38):
com.
au so colorful, I've had him forlike 15 years.
Jolynne Rydz (44:53):
So for those that are listening, I always have to
describe it it's like a bigbanana soft toy, like as big as
your body and he's in this sortof bright blue.
Yeah, he's got a black bow tieand a blue onesie bright blue.
Jenny Doan (45:07):
Yeah, he's got a black blow tie and a blue onesie
, it was about, yeah, about apillow sized, and he's got green
arms, oh yeah, and feet andfeet.
Yeah, he's very cute, beenthere for all the world records,
and I just know that if he'saround, everything is okay.
Jolynne Rydz (45:18):
Everything is okay well, everything will be okay,
and thank you so much for comingon the podcast.
It's been an absolute delightFor our listeners.
How can they connect with youif they want to learn more or
get you in for an event or aworkshop?
Where can they find you?
Jenny Doan (45:35):
Yeah, so my website is Jenny Doan
J-E-N-N-Y-D-O-A-Ncomau, and youcan find all my details there or
on instagram, the jenny doanbeautiful.
Jolynne Rydz (45:54):
So they jenny doan at instagram and jenny doan dot
com.
Dot au wonderful.
Thank you so much for joiningus.
Have a wonderful day andremember you were born for a
reason it's time to thrive.
See you next time.
Thank you, I hope you enjoyedthat episode as much as I did.
I had an absolute ball chattingwith Jenny Doan, isn't she
amazing.
(46:15):
So many key takeaways from that.
I think one of the first oneswas asking yourself that
question when was the last timeyou purely did something just
for fun?
I think the last time I didthat is when I was just dancing
in my home to YouTube karaoke onmy own, which is something that
I love doing.
So bringing that fun into yourdaily life is so, so important
(46:38):
to re-energize us.
Another key thing was lookingat what other people are doing
and going, hey, I can do that.
How often do we compareourselves to other people and go
, oh, I'm not doing as good asthey're doing.
I'm not achieving as much asthey're doing.
I don't have it all togetherlike they have.
Why don't we go, hey, whycouldn't I do what they're doing
(46:59):
?
It's a really good flip oncomparing ourselves to others,
and I also loved the point aboutjust stop judging ourselves.
If we can stop doing that first, it's almost like we don't then
expect it from the peoplearound us.
So if you are someone like I,have definitely experienced some
challenges with feeling judged,anticipating judging people,
(47:22):
and I can truly resonate withthis that when you decide that
hang hang on, I'm not going tojudge myself, I'm going to
determine my own self-worth.
It's incredibly freeing andthat brings me into the next
learning that she shared aboutself-worth.
And when you can define thatfor yourself, it actually helps
define the quality of therelationships and who you permit
(47:42):
into your life and who youallow to spend energy with you.
And I always judge myinteractions with people of how
do I feel when I've, after I'vemet with them.
So I'm on a high now afterspeaking with Jenny, and that to
me is a sign that that'ssomeone that is worthy of being
in my life and energizing me,and I hope that you can do that
(48:04):
the same to those in your lifeas well.
And then the final one I wantedto touch on was the blue cheese
principle.
So not everyone will like you,but the right people will love
you.
So I hope you're being your ownversion of blue cheese and I
hope you've enjoyed that episode.
If you've liked it, pleasesubscribe and share it with
friends.
(48:24):
That's how we get more of thisgoodness out into the world.
And remember you were born fora reason.
It's time to thrive.
See you next time.
Hello, I'm Jolynne Rydz and welcome to the
Magnetic Authenticity Podcast.
This is where we level up yourimpact by being more of you.
If you're tired of being toldthat you need to be someone
you're not just to succeed andget anywhere and make a
difference, then you're in theright place, because we are all
(00:22):
about looking at you, yourstrengths, what your gifts are,
how you are best made in thisworld to have an impact, and
harnessing all of that to makeyour strategies come to life.
So if you're looking for moreconfidence, if you're looking
for more influence, if you wantto be heard, seen and be making
(00:42):
more of a difference, thenyou're in the right spot and I
can't wait to explore all ofthis with you together.
Is this it?
Do you wonder if you are trulyliving up to your potential?
I'm Jolynne Rydz from theMagnetic Authenticity Podcast,
and today's guest is passionateabout helping you unlock your
(01:06):
amazing gifts, using life'sexperiences and challenges as an
unofficial roadmap to greatness.
Jenny Doan Joan is a keynotespeaker and workshop facilitator
who holds not one, not two, butthree Guinness World Records
for endurance.
Hula hooping.
She discovered that the path togreatness isn't just about
(01:28):
hardcore resilience or habitstacking.
It starts with becoming theperson who dares to dream bigger
and make it happen.
Jenny is super excited to showus how to be unofficially
amazing and unleash ourgreatness within.
Welcome to the podcast, Jenny,so excited
tohave
you.
Jenny Doan (01:46):
Thank you for having me.
I'm excited to be here.
Yes, fantastic, wonderful.
Jolynne Rydz (01:50):
So we obviously know each other, but it would be
great for our listeners tolearn a little bit more about
you.
So I'd love for you to start bytelling us a little bit about
your journey to get to where youare today and this burning
question that I have have, whichis what made you choose hula
hooping.
Jenny Doan (02:09):
Oh, of course, I think that my journey started
off probably quite similar to alot of people.
Where I was born in AustraliaVietnamese immigrant parents and
I had that very you knowpurposeful drive through life to
get that good job, goodeducation and set myself up.
But, like a lot of people, Irealized that it wasn't as
(02:32):
exciting as I thought it wouldbe or as exciting as I thought.
I was sitting in a cubicle andthinking, oh, like is this?
It Am I just meant to sit in anoffice until I retire and then
I get to go and do other things.
And roughly about 10 years agoI decided that it was kind of
not working for me and I had togo figure out what that actually
(02:53):
was.
And so I spent something like10 years just getting out of my
comfort zone and just doingthings that initially were scary
, and then realizing that, ah,you can figure things out, you
can adapt and you can change,and who you are isn't fixed or
predetermined or anything likethat.
So I found myself travelingoverseas, doing volunteer work
(03:16):
overseas, cycling in differentcountries, and then, when I
moved to the US, the hulaulahooping started, and I think
that was partially because Imissed out on a lot of playtime
as a child.
I had a very serious sort ofupbringing where I had to be the
responsible one and a part ofme just missed that element of
(03:39):
play, just doing somethingpurely for fun.
And when I looked around and Irealized that the majority of
hula hooping is like dance orlike tricks and circus kind of
stuff, I completely bombed atall that stuff.
Like people assume that I'm anamazing dancer because I can
hula hoop and I'm like no, onceI lose the hula hoop, I don't
(04:02):
know, know what to do.
It's like a security hula hoop,pretty much Like inside this,
like force field.
I'm perfectly safe, yeah.
And that's when I Googled youknow what, if people don't want
to do tricks, like what is theother like side of hula hooping?
And that's when I found thatthere was a Guinness World
Record from Aaron Hibbs he wasthe previous record holder who'd
(04:23):
hula hoops for about 75 hours.
And I thought like, oh, I thinkI could do that.
I watched his video and I sawhim just like fighting the hula
hoop, Like he was hula hoopingreally fast, and I thought, well
, hula hooping is like for meit's like relaxing.
You have to physically let go,you have to let your shoulders
(04:46):
drop, unclench your jaw and feelthe hula hoop.
Yeah, yeah, like there's somuch of it that like just
loosens everything up and Ithought if I could do that a
little bit better than him, then75 hours I could stretch that
out and then set my own record.
Jolynne Rydz (05:05):
Oh, that's incredible, and I really want to
acknowledge you for what yousaid right at the start of the
story about recognising thatyou're sitting in this cubicle
and is this it?
Is this all?
We've been taught that this ismeant to be success and this is
meant to make us feel great, butI don't know if I don't think
it's working for me and, yeah, Iwant to acknowledge that
(05:26):
because I think there's a lot ofpeople that feel that way but
it takes courage to step out ofthat and firstly recognize it
and then go no, let's dosomething about this.
So thank you for sharing that.
It's possible, and that'salmost like the starting point,
isn't it?
Jenny Doan (05:39):
Because I feel like it was tricky, because you find
that something isn't working foryou, but then you don't know
what would.
It's because there's no answerlike, oh, then do the opposite
of that, but like that could bean infinite number of
possibilities yeah and I thinkit was my, I guess I had a lot
of stubbornness to a degree,like no, that's not it, that's
not it, and then just likewhittling it down, and I feel
(06:02):
like for most people there canbe like little, like little
jumps rather than like going toanother country.
It can just be like tweakingthings, like being in different
social circles, like picking upa hobby they've always wanted to
do but felt shy about, and Ifeel like hobbies and things
like that are a really goodentry into that sort of
(06:23):
curiosity and exploration,because when you start off,
you're a beginner and you'reallowed to be bad at something
and nobody's expecting you to bethe prodigy.
That's like, oh my god, mozart,this is the first time you've
ever played in Michigan.
Like in your mind you might behoping that you'll, you know,
somehow be a genius, but for themajority of us it's like oh, we
(06:44):
could just do this thing.
And it's not about, like theKPIs that we have at work or
like this super megaproductivity, how to like
maximize our like potential allin one hit.
It's just like slowly, likeinching towards like the edges
of your boundaries, of what youthink you're capable of, and
then that sort of process getsless painful or less scary.
(07:05):
The more you sort of do it likeyou build that confidence yeah,
yeah, it's like a muscle thatyou've got to.
Jolynne Rydz (07:11):
You've got to exercise.
Yeah, the other thing that cameto mind as you were sharing
your story is I.
I've been facilitating aleadership program for a while
and actually use the hula hoopas a metaphor, like I've had one
on the ground, and I step inand it's, it's, it's the comfort
zone, and then I teach peoplethat if you step out of it,
that's where the magic happens.
So it's almost like expandingthat circle that you've got
(07:34):
going around you and just tryingthings.
So you've told us how you got towhere you are today.
I'd love to know what are someexciting projects or initiatives
you're currently working on.
Jenny Doan (07:47):
Yeah.
So I think, having all thatexperience and knowledge,
distilling that into, first ofall, words because it lives in
my body and in my mind and in myimagination, but beginning to
put together my message ofunofficially amazing, which I
feel like is kind of like a playon words, in terms of Guinness
(08:08):
World Records talks aboutofficially amazing when you make
it in the book and theneverything else in life, that's
also amazing.
We should give that some credittoo, because that's pretty cool
and it's part of like myoverall message is to get people
to be willing to look atthemselves and what sort of do
(08:28):
they have at the moment or theydon't have that they want to
change about themselves or theirlives, and what are the
actionable things they can do toget there.
And I feel like a big part ofit is by doubling down on being
you, and so when you talk aboutmagnetic authenticity, I feel
like that's an ingredient youhave to have, because there's a
(08:48):
million people out there thatare saying like, be like a CEO
and wake up before I am and docold showers, and so many people
are like, if I can't do that,then I'm not resilient and I'm
not this and therefore I'm notsuccessful or whatever, but I
feel like there are so manyother things that we have inside
where we can exercise that sameexpression or that strength
within that we just leave on thetable because it's not that
(09:13):
professional or not thatprescribed by everybody else.
Yeah, and I want people to sortof dig inside to find that, and
I'm working on building onlinecourses so that people can start
to practice that in their owntime, and then in-person
workshops where I can actuallyget people to talk about what's
(09:34):
holding them back and the thingsthat they've learned over time
and share a lot of thatknowledge, because so many of
our family and friends have donecool things that we don't even
know about.
And when you start to thingsthat we don't even know about
and when you start to realizethat people like you or people
close to you have doneextraordinary things, it makes
you realize that it's possibleand within your reach.
It's not just like celebritiesand all these other people and
(09:57):
influencers, it's like peopleyou already know.
Jolynne Rydz (09:59):
Yeah, and it's often extraordinary, isn't it?
Jenny Doan (10:03):
Because it's not something you would have thought
of doing, or maybe notsomething you would have done,
but when you look at the thingitself, like it's not
necessarily this unattainablegoal is what I'm hearing had
(10:24):
done a whole bunch of cyclingwhere I learned like the
endurance aspect of endurancehula hooping, which was the slow
, incremental movement as youget stronger because I felt like
as a kid I was always pickedlike dead last at sport, like I
wasn't very fast and have greatstrength, and I thought, well,
that's what fit people have,they're lifting dead, lifting
weights, and like I can't dothat or I don't enjoy doing that
(10:48):
.
More importantly, so what's init for me?
And then I realized that thereis a whole endurance category of
sport where you're not liftingsuper heavy stuff or you're
moving super fast, you're justmoving like really slowly over
time and that just fit me like aglove.
Oh, you mean, I could do itwithout being out of breath and
(11:10):
feeling like I'm going toexplode.
I can enjoy it my way.
And I feel like there are somany of us that get into an
activity and we write it off aslike that's not for me, but we
haven't found like our way to doit.
Yeah, and so we've written itoff as not us, but I feel like
it's time for us to revisit someof those things, kind of like
(11:30):
when you're a kid and you hatemushrooms and then you come as
an adult.
I've only been eating the slimy, mushy ones.
Jolynne Rydz (11:40):
I haven't sauteed them with butter and herbs yeah,
yeah, or barbecue, the barbecue, barbecue mushroom exactly oh,
it's so good.
So much potential that was justuntapped until you know you get
in there, yeah, and I love whatyou've just shared because I
think it applies to leadershipso much in terms of often
there's all this pressure andthere's these really big goals
(12:02):
that people are aiming for, butit's those small, consistent
steps that get us there, isn'tit?
And that feeling that just youknow, be yourself with it and go
with the flow.
Jenny Doan (12:12):
Yeah, and it feels natural, as opposed to you
putting on a costume and thenthinking like what lines or what
would I say in this situation,and just ignoring the answers
that you already have.
Jolynne Rydz (12:23):
Yeah, it takes so much more energy.
One of your key messages, jenny, is around personal growth and
fun and intertwined, and I lovethis because I feel that a lot
of workplaces and even lifewe're getting too serious.
So can you tell our listenersabout how you came to this
(12:44):
intersection between personalgrowth and fun and why do you
think it's so important rightnow?
Jenny Doan (12:51):
there's a lot of internal programming that we
experience when we want to dosomething that's purely fun or
purely silly, and sometimes thatcomes out as like people are
going to make fun of me or saythat it's stupid and all these
things and that just thought canstop us from doing things.
But I found that when you startspending time with people and
(13:15):
unraveling who you are andsharing that with people, when
you start to share some of thoseideas, the rejection you're
expecting doesn't actually showup.
That often rarely, if anythingand you realize that it was just
in your head, your ownprogramming, or your parents or
adults had said to you whenyou're a kid, and it puts the
(13:36):
brakes on things before you evengive them a chance, and then a
lot of people who do criticizeit probably don't have much fun
themselves.
So I want to see you going outthere, gallivants, you're having
a good time, and then a lot ofpeople who do criticize it
probably don't have much funthemselves.
Don't want to see you going outthere gallivanting and having a
good time and I feel like that'sthe first barrier that you
overcome is the permission.
Yeah, and it's bizarre becausewhen you're a kid you assume
that as an adult you havefreedom and you create the
(13:59):
permission.
But sometimes we just like getfreedom and then we just like
climb back into the little rulesand little cage that no one
like, there's no lock, there'sno key, we just like climb
inside and part of that was justlike a reclaiming of my life
and like being playful, beingsilly and you know, I'd worked
(14:21):
as a data analyst since thestart of my career and a lot of
that is male dominated and sobeing silly or anything like
that is seen as weakness and allthese things.
But you just get used toputting that on when you go to
work and then you forget to takeit off when you get home.
And as I started to get awayfrom that and realizing that
that wasn't for me, I startedthinking what do I put in its
(14:44):
place?
Because it can't just be a voidlike, I can't just be blank and
neutral.
Now, what do I do with thisextra like capacity?
And then I just I just foundthat it was such an outlet like
you have all this pent-up, lackof expression or just things you
wanted to do that were juststifled, and as you peel away at
(15:05):
it and it just comes outnaturally, it's just a very like
getting in touch with you.
Some people call it like yourinner child or what have you,
but it just becomes easy, likeyou're not having to like
calculate and be analytical anddo all that stuff.
You start to listen to your gutand your instinct and you
wonder like what are you doingall that time?
(15:26):
It's like putting it on mute orsomething.
Jolynne Rydz (15:30):
Yeah, it's just very liberating yeah, it's like
we've been programmed to be onthis autopilot to to trust these
rules that keep us safe, andthen we don't know what to do or
how to step out of thatprogramming.
Wow absolutely.
Jenny Doan (15:45):
And then I found that when you share things with
people, they're kind of likerelieved, like, oh, thank god,
someone else feels this way, butpeople don't always want to be
the first person, and so I wasalso surprised like the number
of people who like positively,responded to just like random
silly things, like Like you know, in my Instagram videos I have
like soft toys and things andPokemon, and before I would like
(16:09):
hide them away before I hitrecord, because I was like
people are going to think I'm achild, but then people are like,
oh, I watch that show or I dothis and that, and it's just
like human, like it's just veryhuman to enjoy these things.
And I think the criticism thatwill be perceived in a certain
way is so inflated in our headsbecause 90% of people are like
(16:30):
in their own heads they're notthinking about you, or they
think about you for a second andthen they go back to their life
and whatever judgment they hadabout you like evaporates.
No, we like hold onto it asthough it's like gospel, or as
though like it's this damning,like you know it's like gospel,
or as though like it's thisdamning, like you know,
statement on our character, butit's just like fleeting thoughts
and words sometimes and I feellike as we start to like shed
(16:53):
that sort of external validationand just listen to on the
inside, like how we feel andwhat we want to do with
ourselves, we don't get soworried about what other people
will think as that sort of goesdown.
Just just that energy gets to,you know, redistribute to other
stuff, which is I don't knowmore, I guess, fruitful, just
(17:13):
less annoying, I suppose.
Jolynne Rydz (17:15):
Yeah, it's like you're taking that energy that
was protecting you from this onetime, maybe a couple of times
where you got burnt, but reallythat was a minority, it's not
everything.
Yay, we're all loaded with allthis energy times where you got
burnt but really that that was aminority.
Jenny Doan (17:28):
It's not everything.
And then, wow, I'm exploding.
Jolynne Rydz (17:31):
So you've already mentioned magnetic authenticity
and for this podcast, it's allabout using that to level up
your leadership impact.
Could you recall a time, jenny,where someone in your life had
this energy around them, whereyou were just drawn to them and
what they're about, and whatimpact that had on you and how
has it shaped the person you aretoday?
Jenny Doan (17:50):
yeah, it was my friend.
I met well while I was in Tongaon that volunteer assignment
and he's the one that got meinto cycling and I remember
seeing him on his bike and itlooked like the bike was just
part of his body.
There was no like you know himand bike and where it ends.
And I remember someone had um,sold him one of those really
(18:11):
tall pedestal fans, so he pickedit up and then just rode it
home like under his arm and theother hand, that's incredible.
It was just like how are youdoing this?
Like it just seems like natural, like you're just like like
like you're holding a baguette,like it was.
And he had such like a freedomin his life where he didn't
(18:34):
waste time with like negativityor anything like that.
But he wasn't blindfullyoptimistic, like if there was a
truthful thing that he had totell you that might hurt your
feelings.
If it comes from like kindnessand he has your permission, he
genuinely wants you to like knowthis, to improve your life in
some way.
He's not going to let you walkaround with like parsley in your
(18:56):
teeth and stuff.
And I feel like that kindnessand strength together was just
such a welcoming energy that hegave as much as he could and was
in the moment to enjoy thepresent.
I feel like it just seemed likehe had such confidence because
(19:17):
it didn't seem like he was likesecond guessing every single
thing or trying to be liked bythis person or this group.
He just was.
And yeah, he ended up getting meinto cycling, which then
fundamentally changed my life,and like I feel like, even if I
wouldn't like tell him that Iprobably have he's like cool,
(19:38):
like he's not like gonna takeall the credit for it or
anything like that.
He's just the person that aspeople rub shoulders with him or
move through life, just picksomething off him and then just
carry it on in their ownexpression.
And it's just fascinatingbecause he didn't do anything
like, he didn't seek out to tryand change lives.
(19:59):
He was just being himselfaround you and if there's
anything you wanted that hecould do, he would yeah, yeah
there's so much power in justbeing yourself around people
isn't it.
Yeah, and I think because he wasso sure of himself and so open
anyone could ask anything and hejust had all that knowledge
that he knew and that he ownedand he made it his own so that
(20:22):
you could see how you couldemulate bits of it or take parts
of it and then make it your own, that it didn't have to be
prescribed in some way and youdidn't have to be one of those
people who like wins at allcosts to step over other people.
No, that's just like anarchetype.
That's, I don't know, popularin movies, but in real life
these are real people that areactually good at heart and you
(20:44):
just gravitate towards thosepeople and it just yeah, it just
blew my mind because there wasjust that gentleness to him and
it wasn't weakness.
But growing up, oftentimesyou're told that like being weak
or crying and all this sort ofthings like vulnerability is
like a bad thing yeah but it'slike knowing yourself so much
(21:05):
that being vulnerable is okay.
And I think I just saw a lot ofthat in him, where he would like
, want to know, like how you'redoing, not just like what you've
been doing, but like how you'refeeling, yeah, and it's just
like, not like wanting a, youknow, a stock standard response,
but he genuinely cared and thatwas just such like a breath of
(21:27):
fresh air.
Jolynne Rydz (21:28):
Yeah, I have this torn feeling when you say it's
such a breath of fresh air,because I wish it was common,
but it's not.
Jenny Doan (21:34):
Yeah, yeah.
Jolynne Rydz (21:37):
Like I've had toxic leaders in my career and
I've had the completely oppositeend of amazing leaders, and
it's like a warm hug when theysay no, how are you feeling, not
how's the work going.
Jenny Doan (21:46):
You, how are?
Jolynne Rydz (21:47):
you going it's so, so powerful.
Jenny Doan (21:51):
Yeah, yeah, feeling not how's the work going?
You, how are you going?
It's so so powerful, yeah, yeah, and I think like the fact that
they go out of their way tolike care in that way, and then
you just feel like if there isanything you need, that it's
easy for you to be open now,because there's none of that
like barrier in between and it'sjust something that you know,
probably isn't taught intextbooks.
To ask someone you know howthey're doing, yeah, but it's
such like a human response and Ifeel like sometimes the irony
(22:13):
of being in like a corporate oroffice environment is that we
know what's like in our instinctto be human and then there's
like the rules or like thesocial norms it's they.
They contradict what we know tobe true, but then we're in this
environment where we don'treally know where to go with
that, depending on their rankand hierarchy and politics and
(22:35):
all these things that complicatesomething that is otherwise
quite simple.
Jolynne Rydz (22:40):
Yeah, yeah, there's so many.
I work in organisationaldevelopment and there's so many
big initiatives that get put inplace to solve what you've just
said, which is a fundamentaljust be human.
You don't have to do this fancyprogram just get everyone in a
position where they can becomfortable and be human.
Jenny Doan (22:58):
Yeah, yeah, and I feel like the it's.
It's so different, um,different because in a social
setting, the trust and likesafety to be yourself, the
stakes are so much lower becauseit's just a friendship, as
opposed to you're going intothis job and it could be, you
know, years that you're there,or your career and all these
things, and then it sort of hasthis other element where there's
(23:20):
that filter and the more fieldsthat get applied.
You're just spending so muchtime thinking about what to do
rather than doing and beingStuff actually matters and makes
a difference.
Jolynne Rydz (23:34):
Yeah, that should be a bumper sticker doing and
being.
Jenny Doan (23:37):
The stuff that actually matters and makes a
difference.
Jolynne Rydz (23:39):
Yeah, yeah.
Jenny, you mentioned in one ofyour talks that you believe our
mission in life is to becometruly unapologetically, us, and
that is so aligned with magneticauthenticity.
And could you share with us howyou, how you, came to that?
Jenny Doan (23:55):
I think that because I moved countries so often and
cities, I had the opportunity tocompletely remove the mask of
who I was, because when you moveto a place where nobody knows
you, you don't gain anythingfrom maintaining that facade.
Jolynne Rydz (24:12):
Ah, and that's the hack.
Jenny Doan (24:14):
I just gotta move, figure it out and then come back
.
And I didn't realize it until Icame back and my friends
probably thought that like had apersonality change or something
, because you weren't like thiswhen you left.
What happened in that timeperiod?
That changed and I think itbecame like almost comical that
(24:35):
I would just keep changing overand over again, like what's
going to come out next.
It's just like a futureadventure situation.
But I felt like every time Istarted to shed something that
isn't really me anymore or wasmore cumbersome to maintain than
to keep going, I felt that itjust opened up another
opportunity.
(24:56):
And I feel like when I did a lot, a lot of that more often, I
started to find it more easilyto figure out what opportunities
actually match me, because Iused to be a chronic like list,
slash, spreadsheet like personwhen it came to opportunities
like this one's good for thisreason, but this one's on this
(25:17):
one, and then try and like, havelike some like rubric to figure
out which is like and it's like, no, like that's all like up in
here in their head andsometimes like it's not that
reliable, sometimes it's a bitdodgy, and I started just to
realize like what fits me and Ithink some people call it
personal brand or your identitybut it's like that litmus test
(25:41):
of like is this something that'sgonna make me shine or
something that is naturallyplaying to my strengths, versus
me just trying to fit in andlike that will look cool.
Other people will think that'simpressive.
And then it just made mydecision making process a lot
easier because you filter out alot of the noise that is
maintaining some facade aboutyou, or this is where you've
(26:02):
always done things.
So this is like a continuationof that and it starts to become
like the compass for you to knowlike what is actually important
to you and you don't have to.
You don't feel as swayed orpeer pressured by other things
that have led you to situationswhere you've worked really hard
at something and realize like90% of the way in that you
didn't actually want it butyou're like, oh, I'm stuck, I'm
(26:25):
in now, yeah pretty much when Ilook back at my like choices
with jobs and things, theinstances where it's gone wrong.
I hadn't listened to that gutfeeling.
And you can't really understandthe gut feeling until you
understand yourself and who thatis and you actually practice
being that person, whereas Ifeel like sometimes we feel like
we're most ourselves when we'realone in our room or we're
(26:47):
hanging out with this person,but then when we start to hang
out with other people, we havelike versions of ourselves that
are different and fragmented andkind of like forgetting who you
are at your core.
And then by the time you go tomake life decisions and things
and it doesn't line up oh,because I've been spending 90%
of my time with somebody elseand that's us making your
(27:07):
decisions, and then now thisperson's stuck, with the result
of that, yeah, and I'm reallycurious, jenny, because you sort
of mentioned that you shedyourself and then head on to the
next opportunity.
Jolynne Rydz (27:17):
Was that like a conscious thing that you did, or
was it more on reflection?
You noticed that was what youwere doing.
Jenny Doan (27:23):
I think it was probably for me, making a big
change sort of forced me to sheda lot of it.
I feel like if I were justgoing about my day and I made a
challenge myself to be moremyself.
There are so many opportunitiesto me to just chicken out and
just not.
Yeah, I'm gonna start that diettoday.
(27:46):
Yeah, but I'm gonna keep myentire life the same and not
change anything.
Because I feel like physicallychanging your environment puts
you in a position where youdon't have a choice but to go.
And I think when I looked atendurance cycling, I picked
starting in one spot Vancouverand then cycling to Montreal.
You have to go forward.
(28:07):
If you go back youraccommodation, you've already
paid for it.
You can't go back to where youstarted.
You have to go forward.
If you go back youraccommodation, you've already
paid for it.
Like, go back to where youstarted.
You have to keep going, yes,even if it takes you longer.
Or you have to crawl and it'ssort of taking that option away
for you to bail or quit and bymoving to a different place, or
it's like when you start a newjob, you have to put yourself
(28:27):
out there and meet new peopleand introduce yourself and do
all these things that you neverwould have had to do, and part
of it is like front-loading thehard part by like ripping
yourself out or doing the thingthat's scary, but then trusting
that once you get there, yourbrain figures it out, yeah, and
(28:47):
I think that's the hard leapwhere you feel like what if I
get to the other side and I justlike don't figure it out or I
fail?
But then you think of yourhistory and you're like what are
all the other times I've donesomething new.
We've all gone to primaryschool or high school, been in
totally new environments, andthen you were fine, yeah, move
to a new suburb or start a newjob and do all these like new
(29:11):
things.
The fact that we all learnedhow to walk is like pretty cool.
Learn how to ride a bicycle andyou say like dad, don't let go
of the seat, and you're reallymad.
And then you're like riding ontwo wheels.
Okay, I understand why you didthat it's like this trust in
ourselves is harder to to buildup than our trust in the people
around us that's something thatI find really, really tricky,
(29:33):
because it's so easy to see theskills in other people and then
measure yourself against themand then feel bad about yourself
, but then you don't be like, oh, what are the things that I'm
doing really well, that someoneelse might be jealous of or
someone else might notice, butI'm like standing too close to
it and so I just don't see ityeah, and I'd love to draw this
(29:53):
out like bigger picture.
Jolynne Rydz (29:54):
So, if you're unapologetically you, what do
you think are some of thechallenges that we could be
solving if we can get more andmore people stepping into that?
Jenny Doan (30:03):
yeah, I think a big thing is loneliness, because the
fear of putting yourself outthere stops a lot of people.
But how is anybody ever supposedto like, like you, love you or
embrace you if you don'tactually share anything
meaningful about yourself?
Yeah, because we all start withlike the surface, like you know
(30:24):
what do you do for work, andthen you have like social
conversations you know what areyou watching on netflix but then
there's things that are likeclose to our hearts or things
that we're passionate about, andwhen we share them and then we
make connections that way,people start to get insight.
On a more personal, like deeperlevel, there's always like the
possibility that when you sharesomething, someone might reject
(30:45):
it, and I think a big part ofthat is like accepting that
that's going to happen.
But the reality is that out ofa million people, you're not
going to be friends with amillion people exactly.
You'd be very busy, yeah.
Yeah, like you kind of want tofilter it out.
If there's someone that hasnothing in common with you, they
don't like you.
It doesn't mean you're a badperson or they're a bad person,
(31:08):
you're just not compatible.
So then you just filter it downto find the people that do
embrace you and like you, and Ifeel like that's the thing that
encourages other people to comeout, because when you don't see
it, you feel like you're theonly one.
And then, as you start to sharethese stories about yourself,
and other people start sayinglike, oh, I've experienced that
(31:30):
when I had a made a was anInstagram reel about the fact
that I actually dropped out ofhigh school.
Being a high school dropout,you associated with all these
negative things and at the timeit felt like the biggest failure
of my life, because I was like17, like there's nothing more
you really can fail at, and itwas such like a big, defining
part of my life.
(31:51):
But then you fast forward 10,15 years later, 25, however many
years, it doesn't matter.
But then there are lots ofother people who had similar
struggles and they always feltlike they were stupid or
whatever it was, and then theylearned that that's not the case
at all.
It's just these circumstanceshappen and you can connect with
other people through that andnow they see another side of you
(32:13):
and they can connect with youon that level and then they can
share something that they mighthave never shared with someone
before.
Yeah, because I feel like inlife we're always going through
things and the saddest part iswhen you go through hardship
alone because you feel likethere's no one else out there
and I feel like we don't knowwhen these things are going to
(32:34):
happen.
But when we have relationshipsand friendships with people that
we build over time, we knowthat we have that safety net and
then we can support each otherand use our own adversities to
like support and reducesuffering for other people and
it kind of comes full circle,kind of like paying it forward
to help the next person.
But I feel like there is thatleap of faith and I feel like it
(32:58):
starts with yourself being ableto be fully honest with
yourself, like in the mirror,who you are, and then, as you
start to share that, you startto reinforce that and then that
becomes your norm but, it's likea lot of those like small,
incremental, like trustexercises, and the scary part
might be that you end up losingsome friends in the process,
(33:20):
because not everybody is readyfor that or not everybody, you
know, wants change.
They might like you as thatversion, but then that just
leaves room for people who doembrace you, because I don't
really want friends that justtolerate like, oh, she's doing
that thing again.
I want people to be like hell,yeah, and I feel like I don't
(33:41):
know, because so many of ourfriends can be through proximity
, like previously from school orfrom high school, from uni, and
then we have to like change ourproximity, our proximity.
Like you know how we met duringour boot camp for like public
speaking and that's like one ofthe top scariest things in the
world for most people, and I gotto meet you and other
(34:02):
like-minded people that wedidn't have to explain like why
are you doing that?
That seems crazy.
Yeah, we chose to do this.
Yeah.
And we like why are you doingthat?
That seems crazy.
Yeah, we chose to do this.
Are we crazily?
Get a kick out of it?
Yeah, yeah, we're definitelygonna get along now, and it's
just those signals I feel likethat.
You put yourself in situationswhere you're with those people
(34:24):
because you've eliminated a lotof those.
What are people gonna think?
Blah, blah, like they're notthinking that or they might be,
but we both show up and then wecan support each other and have
a laugh and it's just like avery different experience
Because we were doing somethingthat both scared us, yeah, but
then did it anyway, and thenjust together like saw in each
(34:45):
other, like what it means toovercome something, yeah, and
then just get frequentlyreminded that we're all on these
different journeys and seeinghow you do and seeing how I do
and other people just showspeople that there's more than
one way to success.
And I think that as, like awoman, you know, person of color
and all that stuff, you justdon't see your types of people
(35:09):
doing these things and it makesit seem like it's either not
possible or it just hasn't beendone yet.
Jolynne Rydz (35:15):
Yeah, and then it's all scary because you're
the first one trying yeah,you're like where's everyone
else?
Come on, where is everyone?
There was so much in that, andI think one of the first things
I heard was that you almost haveto stop judging yourself, and
then the people around you haveroom to not do that as well.
And then the second key point Iheard in that was that there's
(35:40):
your self-worth.
Your own view of yourself-worth defines the quality
of the relationships that youallow around you, right?
So you don't want to wantfriends that just tolerate you,
but people do do that, becauseit's scary to let go of that if
that, if that's all you have atthe moment.
So do you have a tip, maybejust one tip that would help
(36:03):
people be more?
Do you have a tip, maybe justone tip, that would help people
be more unapologetically them?
Jenny Doan (36:07):
Yeah, so it's.
One of the concepts I've comeup with is the blue cheese
principle.
Jolynne Rydz (36:12):
Yes.
Jenny Doan (36:13):
That not everyone is going to like you, but the
right people will love you.
Yeah, I love you.
I love blue cheese Exactly.
If blue cheese were less smellyor less know itself, you know
people would be like, oh, Iguess it's kind of good, but
when it's 100% itself, you'relike hell.
Yeah, like, give me some moreof that blue cheese.
(36:35):
Exactly.
If you can't hide blue cheese,it is very much there, so lean
into it.
I feel like, yeah, that's thething that you're sort of
banking on, that it doesn't haveto be likable to everybody,
because no individual will be,no person that's genuinely being
themselves is likeable toeveryone.
Jolynne Rydz (36:55):
It's like if they are, I'm concerned so you've had
a lot of transitions in yourlife and your career has
straddled both corporate and thepublic sector worlds and I
wanted to ask you thesequestions because, from my
background in human resourcesand organisational development,
I often hear or see bias thatcomes in where someone says, oh
(37:17):
that person from corporate,they're not going to be able to
navigate the bureaucracy of thepublic sector, and vice versa,
so that person from public,they're not going to be able to
hack it in corporate.
So I'd love to know yourperspective in terms of what are
the opportunities when someoneactually moves to different
sectors.
Jenny Doan (37:33):
Yeah, I think you definitely bring all the
experience and knowledge withyou, especially where you're in,
because I went from federalgovernment, corporate,
non-profit startup tech, so I'vehad like a good seasoning.
And I think the biggest thingis when you're in government
you're like these are all thingsI wish I could do if I had the
(37:55):
budget.
And then you move into acorporate where you do have a
massive budget and you're like,oh yeah, these are all the
things that I wish I could do if.
But then there's like anotherlimitation where it's like time
or money.
So you get used to dealing withdifferent constraints and then,
in another environment, youdon't have those constraints and
you get to use your brain in adifferent way and I think it's
the creativity to figure outlike what's going to work and
(38:17):
what hasn't worked, and justexercising your brain in a
different way so you don't gettunnel vision, because I found
that sometimes, being in thesame place for too long, you
might end up just like, oh,that's never going to work.
That's never going to workbecause you've only ever seen
like one model, you've only seenlike a five-year plan, you've
never seen something done inlike a three-month sprint, and
(38:39):
so when you cross the other side, you get to see those and then
incorporate the best of bothworlds.
And I think when you look at anindividual, whether or not they
would cut it in a company, Ifeel like it's more important to
figure out what theirmotivation is, because if they
want to like join a company andthey want to break the rules and
be disruptive and move reallyfast, it's not because of their
(39:00):
background that probably isgoing to make them a tricky fit.
It's probably that the pace andthe culture of what they like
just isn't there, whereas I feellike there could be like
departments within a slow-movingorganisation that are made for
that specific type ofpersonality.
And I think it's a matter offiguring out what the person is
best at and what they thrive atand how they can contribute that
(39:23):
to the group.
Because I feel like if you keephiring the same persons, do the
same thing, you get the sameresults, and so it's like a risk
to bring in something that's alittle bit different.
But then the wealth of knowledgethat they bring, that you don't
necessarily read in a textbook,you get to like inject that
into your company without havingto do a whole training program
(39:44):
to get everybody to understandwhat know they already know
built in within them, yeah it'slike really harnessing that,
that that person's strength andwho they are and just letting it
out yeah yeah, because I feellike that change can like be
that sort of pinwheel that thentriggers change somewhere else
and then just like a fresh setof eyes in terms of being able
(40:05):
to see things that other peopleare missing, or to just bring a
different edge to things, tojust really bring some more life
to it and just differences andchallenging ideas and like the
norm of this is how we've alwaysdone things.
I feel like sometimes that'sthe thing that stops a lot of
innovation, where we getstagnant in that and we don't
know what the thing is.
(40:26):
That would move us out of it.
And so if you have someonethat's done it before, like hire
them, let's try it.
Jolynne Rydz (40:35):
You've shared very generously about your story and
the changes you've gone to andhow you know just ripped the
bandaid off in new places andnew learnings.
What do you want down the trackin the future?
I'm really curious.
What do you want your legacy tobe?
Jenny Doan (40:50):
Yeah.
So I feel like keynote speakingis a very big and broad area in
terms of getting on stage andtalking to hundreds or thousands
of people, but it was actuallya keynote presenter, todd
Sampson, who prompted me toactually sign up to beat the
Guinness World Record, becauseit had been a pipe dream for a
(41:13):
long time.
I never actually put pen topaper and did anything until I
heard him speak.
So I feel like my legacy wouldbe out of all of the people that
I would present to, or theywould see me in some way that I
get them to like turn towardstheir goal and like make like a
small step, because I feel likeit's crazy to want someone to
(41:34):
like immediately jump after oneconversation with you and be so
enlightened.
But it's kind of like youinspire someone just to look at
least look at their goal, andthen someone else comes in and
then they have their ownexperience and start walking
towards it.
And if you could zoom out inlife and see how many times
that's happened or what's thelike, the ripple effect, you
(41:57):
know 10 years later for thatperson and the like exponential
like effect of that yeah that'swhat I want to do, because I
know that there's greatness ineveryone yeah and it's not that
they're not capable of it, it'sthat they just have to like, let
it out.
and we all have that crazy dreamor that crazy thing, and it's
just like poking, it's like I'mrooting for you, yeah.
Jolynne Rydz (42:26):
And we all need someone in our corner, I think,
rooting for us, and that's themagic of what you're doing and
what you're sharing.
Yeah, so I would like to bringus home with seven swift
questions, and so these are justquick questions, quick answers,
no need to overthink them, justa bit of fun.
Jenny Doan (42:42):
Up for it, yes, so first question In your view,
what are three words to describean ideal leader?
Trustworthy, visionary and veryhuman.
Yes, yeah, yep, not overlordsright.
Yeah overlords.
Jolynne Rydz (43:04):
It's funny though.
Jenny Doan (43:07):
They don't actually teach that you know.
Jolynne Rydz (43:08):
In a lot of leadership programs they don't
teach me that how to not be anoverlord.
Okay, question two.
Jenny Doan (43:15):
Fill in the blank magnetic authenticity is being
so you, that people can't helpbut be drawn to you, beautiful.
Jolynne Rydz (43:26):
Number three.
When you notice yourself tryingto fit in, what's the first
thing that you do?
Jenny Doan (43:32):
It's way too much thinking, analyzing every single
thing in the room like it'slike a scenario, as opposed to
just being a person.
Do you pull out the spreadsheet?
You might mind like doing allthe calculations.
Jolynne Rydz (43:48):
Question number four what song gets you really
pumped?
Jenny Doan (43:52):
I think I Am the Tiger.
If I remember it, jump in.
That is such a good song.
Jolynne Rydz (43:56):
I agree.
It's up there on my list Numberfive.
What's the most daring thingyou've ever done?
Jenny Doan (44:09):
Let's say the Guinness World Records, but
that's too obvious.
I think last year drivingacross the Nullarbor to move to
Melbourne, just getting in myCorolla and just going for it.
Jolynne Rydz (44:21):
Definitely yep.
And number six.
Do you have a favorite quote ormantra that you live by?
Jenny Doan (44:27):
be more.
It's the title of an episode ofadventure time.
Yeah, that little robot.
Yeah, I love it.
I have to look it up, I'mintrigued.
Jolynne Rydz (44:38):
And number seven, what's one small thing that
brings you incredible joy?
Jenny Doan (44:43):
Mr Banana, I'll bring him.
Oh, J-E-N-N-Y-D-O-A-N.
(45:38):
com.
au so colorful, I've had him forlike 15 years.
Jolynne Rydz (44:53):
So for those that are listening, I always have to
describe it it's like a bigbanana soft toy, like as big as
your body and he's in this sortof bright blue.
Yeah, he's got a black bow tieand a blue onesie bright blue.
Jenny Doan (45:07):
Yeah, he's got a black blow tie and a blue onesie
, it was about, yeah, about apillow sized, and he's got green
arms, oh yeah, and feet andfeet.
Yeah, he's very cute, beenthere for all the world records,
and I just know that if he'saround, everything is okay.
Jolynne Rydz (45:18):
Everything is okay well, everything will be okay,
and thank you so much for comingon the podcast.
It's been an absolute delightFor our listeners.
How can they connect with youif they want to learn more or
get you in for an event or aworkshop?
Where can they find you?
Jenny Doan (45:35):
Yeah, so my website is Jenny Doan
J-E-N-N-Y-D-O-A-Ncomau, and youcan find all my details there or
on instagram, the jenny doanbeautiful.
Jolynne Rydz (45:54):
So they jenny doan at instagram and jenny doan dot
com.
Dot au wonderful.
Thank you so much for joiningus.
Have a wonderful day andremember you were born for a
reason it's time to thrive.
See you next time.
Thank you, I hope you enjoyedthat episode as much as I did.
I had an absolute ball chattingwith Jenny Doan, isn't she
amazing.
(46:15):
So many key takeaways from that.
I think one of the first oneswas asking yourself that
question when was the last timeyou purely did something just
for fun?
I think the last time I didthat is when I was just dancing
in my home to YouTube karaoke onmy own, which is something that
I love doing.
So bringing that fun into yourdaily life is so, so important
(46:38):
to re-energize us.
Another key thing was lookingat what other people are doing
and going, hey, I can do that.
How often do we compareourselves to other people and go
, oh, I'm not doing as good asthey're doing.
I'm not achieving as much asthey're doing.
I don't have it all togetherlike they have.
Why don't we go, hey, whycouldn't I do what they're doing
(46:59):
?
It's a really good flip oncomparing ourselves to others,
and I also loved the point aboutjust stop judging ourselves.
If we can stop doing that first, it's almost like we don't then
expect it from the peoplearound us.
So if you are someone like I,have definitely experienced some
challenges with feeling judged,anticipating judging people,
(47:22):
and I can truly resonate withthis that when you decide that
hang hang on, I'm not going tojudge myself, I'm going to
determine my own self-worth.
It's incredibly freeing andthat brings me into the next
learning that she shared aboutself-worth.
And when you can define thatfor yourself, it actually helps
define the quality of therelationships and who you permit
(47:42):
into your life and who youallow to spend energy with you.
And I always judge myinteractions with people of how
do I feel when I've, after I'vemet with them.
So I'm on a high now afterspeaking with Jenny, and that to
me is a sign that that'ssomeone that is worthy of being
in my life and energizing me,and I hope that you can do that
(48:04):
the same to those in your lifeas well.
And then the final one I wantedto touch on was the blue cheese
principle.
So not everyone will like you,but the right people will love
you.
So I hope you're being your ownversion of blue cheese and I
hope you've enjoyed that episode.
If you've liked it, pleasesubscribe and share it with
friends.
(48:24):
That's how we get more of thisgoodness out into the world.
And remember you were born fora reason.
It's time to thrive.
See you next time.
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