December 17, 2025 • 65 mins
Comments, questions? Let's connect!
The shine of high achievement can hide a heavy cost. We sit down with Tosan Gregory Jemide, speaker, restorative leadership architect and creator of the Rewire Code to trace a journey from celebrity baking and relentless expectations to a mirror moment that changed everything. What begins as a story about cakes becomes a masterclass in human-centred leadership, authenticity at work and the quiet courage it takes to choose presence over performance.
We explore the ripple effect leaders create, how a room can feel the tension we won’t voice and the transformative power of simple honesty: “I’m carrying something today; I need your patience.” That small truth builds psychological safety, lifts execution and invites teams to meet leaders with real support.
If the masks feel heavy and the pace feels punishing, consider this your invitation to "slow down, mix well and lead better". Listen, share with a leader who needs it and if it resonates, subscribe and leave a review so more people can find their rhythm again.
Want to connect with Tosan?
LinkedIn: www.linkedin.com/in/tosan-jemide-ab9864a3
Website: www.letsbakeit.com.au
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Jolynne Rydz (01:11):
Hi everyone, I'm Jolynne Rydz, host of the
Magnetic Authenticity Podcast.
And today we're speaking withTosan Gregory Jemide, a speaker,
restorative leadershiparchitect, and author, best
known as the creator of theRewire Code, a reflective
framework that helps leadersrecover from burnout and lead
(01:34):
with renewed rhythm.
Drawing from his own journey ofcreative entrepreneurship and
exhaustion, Tosan fusesstorytelling, psychology, and
the art of baking intotransformative approach to
leadership and well-being.
His message is deeply humanthat strength isn't found in
(01:59):
perfection, but in presence.
Through keynotes, workshops,and the Rewired Journey program.
Tosan empowers leaders to slowdown, mix well, and lead better.
Because leadership begins whenyou pause and find rhythm.
(02:19):
So let's dive into today'sepisode.
Welcome into the podcast,Tosan.
I'm so excited to have you heretoday.
Speaker 5 (02:29):
Thank you so much, Jolynne.
It is my pleasure.
I have been looking forward tothis forever.
Oh, good.
Thanks.
Jolynne Rydz (02:36):
We're gonna have fun today.
Speaker 5 (02:38):
I think so.
I've got a I've got a sneakyfeeling, Will Will.
Jolynne Rydz (02:42):
Yeah, yeah.
I I always love theseconversations because you you
learn so much more about ahuman.
And I think in those humanconnection moments, that's where
we you just learn some of themost profound lessons in life.
Speaker 5 (02:55):
Absolutely.
Absolutely.
I'm going to try and teach youor show you so much.
Jolynne Rydz (03:02):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (03:03):
That you know, I've been thinking to myself, what am
I going to say today?
How much do I want to say?
That's the question I've beenasking myself.
But I think I want to say alot.
Jolynne Rydz (03:16):
Let's let's just see where the conversation goes,
right?
And what's meant to be is meantto be.
All right.
So I I'm I'll share somethingwith you that you might not
know.
So growing up, I was definitelysomeone who watched a lot of
cooking shows, a lot of bakingcompetitions.
And so I'm I'm curious to know,there's something really
(03:37):
magical when you you take foodand you take creativity and you
put challenge and you put it alltogether.
So I I'd love to know a littlebit about your journey towards
becoming really what is acelebrity baker.
You've done some really coolthings in your career.
So feel feel free to share someof them.
But I'd love to hear like alittle bit of your journey to
where you are today.
Speaker 5 (03:58):
I usually like to say bacon found me.
I didn't find it.
Tosan Jemide (04:03):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (04:04):
I sort of I stumbled, I stumbled into it um when I
was 17, 18.
Now, my mom was a great baker.
She used to do a lot of weddingcakes from home, nothing
(04:24):
commercial, and just I used tohelp her a lot.
I kind of was that um littlehandbag, the mommy's boy kind of
boy.
So all my siblings would runaway, and she had a day job, and
she'd come back tired andwanting help.
(04:44):
You know, there's no mixersthen.
It was like everything was byhand, and you know, I had to
help her.
And I did it gladly.
And then, unfortunately, shepassed on when I was 14, and
then three three years later, myeldest brother was getting
married, and he says, Look,there's no way I'm paying for a
(05:09):
wedding cake.
Because so many wedding cakeshave left these doors for free,
and I can't imagine payingsomeone for a wedding cake.
And then he said to me, Well,if there's anyone who's got that
slight chance of baking a cake,it's going to be you to us.
I'm like, hell, no way.
(05:31):
I've never baked a cake in mylife.
Speaker 3 (05:33):
Like, so I'm just the mixer.
I just used to mix and likelick the bowls, scrape it.
I never baked a cake in mylife.
I didn't would have a clue.
Speaker 5 (05:44):
They say, Well, I'm gonna take a chance in you.
If it turns out right, fine.
If it doesn't, I'm willing totake the chance, you know.
And if you don't want to do it,that's fine too.
I'm just not gonna have awedding cake.
So that got to me.
I went back to the lab, got outall my mom's old stuff, and
(06:06):
started just experimenting.
And eventually I picked thecake.
And for what it was, first timeit was well applauded, it was
well received.
And that's how my journeystarted.
I didn't think I'd makeanything of it after that.
It was for me, it was just aone-off.
I'd pick my brother's cake andthat's it, move on to other
(06:27):
things.
I was into clothing as well.
So I started a clothing linestraight after school, straight
after, in fact, right from uni,I had a clothing line.
You know, I just used tooutsource the tailoring and, you
know, create the designs,outsource tailoring and sell
them.
So straight after school, Istarted my clothing line and I
(06:51):
was doing all of that.
People just, family, friendsjust kept wanting me to bake
cakes.
Bake me birthday cake, bake methis.
And then it started gettingmore into bake me a wedding
cake, bake me a wedding cake.
I'm like, I don't have theskills for this.
You guys leave me alone.
I'm just so nervous, I don'tknow anything about baking.
So eventually, I actuallystarted getting quite passionate
(07:16):
about it.
But I started feelinginadequate because I I didn't
think I had the prerequisiteskills.
I hadn't trained, I hadn't doneanything.
Then I decided, okay, you knowwhat?
Go and get some training andsee how it goes.
So I went to the UK.
Um a lot of courses to do, butI didn't want to do a course.
(07:39):
I decided to work rather thando a course.
So I started from ground up.
I worked in like probably mystint in the UK.
I've probably worked in maybelike five or six different
bakeries, you know, hobnobbing,getting different skills,
different ideas, and just beingdigging myself into the real
(08:03):
how-to process of you know,making cakes from scratch and
running a bakery.
So that was an excellentexperience.
And you know, I I I wouldalways advocate for
apprenticeship rather than goingto school because the value is
not something I can I can touch.
(08:23):
By the time I was done, Iprobably I worked my last
bakery.
I worked in, we worked, we wesupplied cakes to like the
high-end, high stretch stores,Harold's, Haver Nicole's, and
you know, all those sort ofstores.
And Gloriet was my last stuffwhere at that point I'd already
(08:46):
started getting a lot of cakeorders, personal business, and
you know, so I just I'm done.
I started my own businessagain, and that's how I ended
up.
Then I ended up back inNigeria, and at that time,
Nigeria, the cake industry inNigeria was still very small and
(09:10):
undead developed, but you know,I brought a lot of zest and you
know creativity to it, andeveryone started to see a
different side of cakes becausethere's this guy who's baking
amazing cakes, he's creative, hedoes this with cake, he does
this with sugar, and you know,and right now today the the cake
(09:34):
industry in Nigeria is maybe onevery street, there's like 20
Wow.
Jolynne Rydz (09:38):
So you're like the almost like the founder of
cakes in or commercial cakes inNigeria.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 5 (09:44):
Yeah, yeah.
Uh absolutely.
And really, that's that'sthat's my story.
That's how cakes found me.
And then I obviously started toget tired of you know running
that model of baking cakesbecame my life, and not just
baking cakes, people, peoplewould come to me because they
(10:05):
expected every cake I did had tobe different.
So I I always had to extend mycreativity, raise the bar.
They're always highexpectations.
Tosan's doing your cake, ohwow.
Tosna's doing your cake, ohwow.
You know, who oh, that cakemust have been done by Tosna.
(10:26):
That must be it.
So the expectations were reallyhigh, and I always had to keep
pushing and raising the bar, andthat was a very difficult thing
for me to do.
Um, there are times where Idoubted my capability because I
was tired or I was feeling burntup, but I still had to just
(10:46):
keep going because people expectmagic from me.
I'm like, so that was hard.
Jolynne Rydz (10:54):
And I love that you shared that because I think
there's a lot of people that uhI'm great at what they do, and
and as leaders, they're great,but there's this constant chase
of getting better and better andbetter.
At what point do you make thatswitch from I'm doing this from
a place of creativity andpassion versus it now feels like
this, I don't know, thisobligation, this kind of
(11:17):
everyday grind almost?
Speaker 5 (11:19):
Yeah, I think that that that sucks the joy out of
it, because I realized after awhile, the more I did it, the
more the less joy I got out ofit, because I sort of I was on
this pedestal where I felt I wasbeing judged.
(11:40):
And for every cake that wentout there, it went out with some
level of prepetition, and I hadpalpitations because hope this
one will be received well.
Speaker 3 (11:53):
It was received well, thank God.
Good, great, great.
Speaker 5 (11:56):
Okay, what's the next one?
So there was just that constantfear where my creativity was no
longer express itself naturallyand just be left as is.
It was always judged.
You know, so that was that wasdifficult.
Jolynne Rydz (12:15):
Yeah, definitely.
Because I I mean, creativecreativity is almost a form of
identity and expression, isn'tit?
So to have to have to havesomeone say, Hey, that I don't
know if that's a Tasan levelcake.
Like that's pretty tough,right?
Speaker 4 (12:30):
Yeah.
And I got I got a few knockslike that, you know.
Speaker 5 (12:35):
And what do you do?
You're you're not the judge,you're not the jury, you're just
the creator.
And the end user has told you,you know, uh, I don't like this
cake.
Sometimes I'd have to, if if Ihad the opportunity, I would
pull it back if there's enoughtime, or I'd go into sets and
(12:59):
try and tweak it and turn itinto something else closer to
what the expectation is.
But it was it was reallydifficult managing all those
things.
And you know, in retrospect,when I think about how I
managed, sometimes I don't, I'mnot sure I can put in words how
(13:20):
difficult those times were forme where I had to first of all
not just manage making cakes,but you know, I'm managing so
many emotions from brides who uhsometimes flip in and freaking
out.
I I don't know.
(13:41):
There are times I'll justswitch off.
I'm like, you know what?
I can't do this.
Jolynne Rydz (13:46):
And when in that journey did you feel like was
the turning point of no, Iactually can't do this anymore?
Speaker 5 (13:53):
Because I enjoyed and I was very passionate, cakes, I
dreamed cakes, I breathed, Ibreathed in cakes, I slept
cakes, I woke up with cakes onmy mind, I walked the streets
with cakes in my mind.
I'm looking at your backdropand I'm looking at what design
is there and how I can, youknow, translate that into a
(14:14):
cake.
I'm walking the streets and artshops or everything.
My brain picked cakes.
So it was really difficult forme to separate myself from my
craft.
My my daily grind, even when Iwasn't working, I was still, my
(14:35):
brain was still on work mode.
So I don't think I had aseparate life.
And I'm not sure I really wasable to identify when I started
to unravel.
I just knew that there weretimes where I felt my creativity
(14:56):
was dwindling and I wasn't asspontaneous as I usually would
be when I'm churning out a cakeand my brain's working like mad
scientists, and you know, ohyeah, let's do this there.
I started to slow down and Istarted realizing that I needed
(15:17):
more time.
So I would cut, take breaks, goout for a walk, chill, relax,
come back.
I was then I started feeling,you know, probably I'm I'm
overextended or something'swrong here.
I think that's when, but Ican't tell you, Joelyn, that it
was a particular time.
Jolynne Rydz (15:38):
Yeah, and I I imagine there's a lot of leaders
out there that have reached,you know, the career high that
they thought they were strivingso long to get to.
And then it almost sounds likeit can become a trap when it's
it's no longer fueled from thatpassion and that early
entrepreneurship.
And now it's like, well, wheredo I go from here?
I I just can almost just sensemy joy and energy slipping away.
(16:02):
And and what do I do with that?
Speaker 5 (16:04):
It is a trap.
It is a trap.
You know, I think sometimeswhen I started off, you know,
the world is a very it's it'sactually a funny, funny place,
and the models that runachievement and being able to
strive for excellence, it's atrap because you start off.
(16:28):
Well, I started off simple.
I just want to do my thing.
You know, I I enjoy doing this,I can do it in a hole.
I don't care who's looking atme.
In fact, I don't want anyone tolook at me.
This is just something that Ienjoy doing.
All the time I made cakes, Inever went to the venue to uh
(16:56):
present the cake or stay and youknow take the accolades that
came with the cake because Imade your cake, I'm not
celebrating myself.
So, but because there's so muchthat goes with you achieved
this, so we're looking for yournext next achievement.
(17:17):
What are you going to do next?
How are you going to outdo thisone?
So you're being judgedconstantly, consistently, and
you're you're you're also raringto be judged because you take
on the challenge as a leader,and you're saying, well, yeah,
bring it on, I'll do myself.
Next time I'll do better, andyou just keep going and going
(17:41):
and going.
I don't think that you actuallyrealize that, you know, that
matrix for performance as set bythe world, you actually start
running with it veryunconsciously, and then you get
into that trap.
Jolynne Rydz (18:02):
And was there ever a time where you felt like I'm
I'm wearing a mask, I don'tknow, I don't know who I am
anymore.
Speaker 4 (18:10):
Is that a trick question?
Was there ever a time I wore amask?
In fact, I had different typesof masks.
Speaker 5 (18:20):
I was I was a king of masks.
Speaker 4 (18:22):
Right.
Speaker 5 (18:24):
And depending on where I was rocking up to,
depending on who I was tryingto, I don't want to use the word
impress, but that's the onlyword that comes naturally,
depending on who I was trying toimpress.
I would wear that specific maskfor the audience.
Now, you know, in my in myjourney of leadership, I
(18:47):
realized that I couldn't affordto be human, I couldn't afford
to show up in my real face a lotof times, because a lot of
times that real face or realself would have fallen short of
the expectations that differentpeople had of me.
(19:10):
So I was the role model, I wasthe dependable one, I was the
Mr.
Fixit, I was the man who alwayshad it together, you know.
Come on.
And I go in as that.
So that's what that's that'sthe mindset people have of me,
and I've sort of tried to alignwith it.
(19:32):
Now, on the days where I'm notfeeling like that, what do I do?
I've just got to go in lookinglike that even when I don't feel
it.
Jolynne Rydz (19:41):
And what did that cost you?
Speaker 5 (19:42):
Yeah.
A lot.
You know, I started to see atthe time I can't tell you that I
felt it cost me anything.
I just felt like I wasperforming to play the role that
(20:05):
was required of me.
And I honestly didn't seeanything wrong in it.
That's that's what leaders do,isn't it?
They show off regardless of howyou're feeling.
You're required to show up.
The people who depend on you,the people who look up to you,
you just got to show up.
So I didn't make anything ofit.
(20:28):
But I think over time I startedto see two different people,
and that's when I I startedgetting a little bit of a
niggling that you know there'ssomething going on here.
You've got Tosan who isemotional, um more sensitive, a
(20:54):
bit more spontaneous, and justsometimes laid back.
But on the other side, you'vegot Tosan who is meticulous, who
has to always show excellenceevery time who has.
To choose perfection, becausethat's what people expect of
(21:16):
him.
And that place and thatposition of just always choosing
perfection over progress andperformance over presence.
By the time I got to the end ofthe road, I felt like I'd lost
my soul.
I felt like I'd lost theessence of who I really was.
And I don't know what else tosay, how else to say this, but
(21:38):
it cost me a lot.
And you know, if you feel likeyou lost your soul, I'm that's
that feels like you you lostyour identity.
You lost who you don't youdon't even know who you are.
Jolynne Rydz (21:48):
Yeah, and I appreciate you sharing this
because I I do know because Isee them, so many leaders out
there that are dancing aroundthat point of well, yeah.
I'm these two people.
Who where am I in in those inthese masks?
So it takes a lot of courage toshare that.
So thank you.
Speaker 5 (22:08):
You're welcome.
I can talk talk about thesethings now.
There was a time where Icouldn't talk about it at all.
Just because of the I feltthere was a certain shame tag,
and it would be coming across asfailure.
(22:28):
So zip it and just brace up andget on with life.
But I I've been liberated now.
Jolynne Rydz (22:39):
Yeah.
And so talk me through thisjourney to liberation.
What you you were at that pointwhere you felt like you lost
your soul.
How did you come through that?
Speaker 5 (22:48):
How did I go through that?
You know, a lot of times inlife, some things happen and you
see yourself on the other side.
You're not really sure how yougot there.
It wasn't something that youyou sort of curated and said,
you know, this is my strategyfor getting there.
(23:09):
But by the time I'd gotten tothe other side, I started to ask
this question you're asking.
I started to ask myself, youknow, how did you get out of
this?
What did you do?
Because I remember how much,how dark those times were for
(23:31):
you.
What what what brought you out?
And I started realizing fromthe point where I had what I
call my mirror moment, which wasone evening after work, I had I
had an encounter with myself,and that was a turning point for
(23:53):
me.
Looking at myself in the mirrorthat night really brought out a
lot of pent-up emotions that Ihadn't sort of expended over
years.
And that night I broke, Ilooked in the mirror, and I saw
somebody I didn't recognize.
(24:14):
I saw someone who was lost.
There's I had a lot of built-infear.
I felt so lonely.
I couldn't talk to anyone.
I couldn't, I couldn't eventalk to my wife, you know.
Um, each time I I shudderedabout each time I thought about
talking to someone, you know, Ishudder, I'm like, no, no, you
(24:35):
can't.
People, people look up to you,you know.
How how's it gonna look?
You know, you can't.
So I just took it on.
And that night, I broke downcompletely.
I cried like I hadn't cried ina long time.
I felt a strong sense of shamethat night.
(24:58):
Failure or shame, failure,shame.
And it just came across to meas, you know, okay, now you've
discovered that something'swrong, but you know, what else?
I still couldn't talk to anyoneabout it.
So I started to internalize alot.
But in my process ofinternalizing, I was asking a
(25:20):
lot of questions and answeringthem.
Okay, so that that what I callthe the private collapse.
I started asking questions, youknow, where why what brought
you here?
How did you get here?
You know, you you everyoneadmires you so much.
They still do.
(25:40):
Oh, I why do you feel so bad?
Why do you feel so much shame?
Why do you feel like a failure?
Why are you so afraid?
Why are you so unchosed?
What are you?
So I started answering, askinga lot of those questions.
And one thing that I realizedin that time was I had an
(26:01):
awakening.
So I didn't have any solutions,but there was a clear
understanding that I was in thepits.
And that recognition was one ofthe best things that happened
to me because it helped me startto think about what position do
(26:22):
I need to take.
Now, this process wasn'tovernight.
I had my mirror moment.
Maybe it took me one year todeal with, you know, the
emotions that came with that,and repeat and repeat how bad
I'm fitting, how I suck ateverything, and how much of a
(26:46):
fit.
I just had to keep, but I knewwhat was going on.
And then I'm not sure at whatpoint, but I started finding way
to sort of burn my creativeenergy aside from work.
I started doing things likejust doing a lot of swimming,
(27:09):
spending one hour in water,doing laps.
I would come back home, bake acake, bake some cookies, um,
experiment.
I wasn't even trying to use anyrecipe.
I would just basically put itin the oven.
(27:33):
And it was those were like myhappy times where for whatever
reason, I I I'm not sure why Iwas doing it, but you know, I
just knew that nobody wasjudging me.
Nobody was caring if thecookies got burnt or if they
tasted shitty.
And it gave me a feeling andsense of security.
(27:57):
Then I started spending moretime doing stuff that would put
me out of the radar of people'sscrutiny.
And I think in that space,still a prolonged time, I'm not
sure how long, but I know that Istarted sort of reframing a lot
(28:21):
of my initial thoughts about,you know, if I if I if my mind
goes to the fact that, you know,I'm feeling shame, then I start
challenging my mind, like, whyyou why are you feeling shame?
What what have you done?
Why are you so ashamed?
And then I look around me, Isee that I've I have a beautiful
(28:47):
wife, I have kids that love me,I have a business that I've
grown and grown successfully.
I walk the streets, I seepeople every day.
Speaker 3 (28:59):
I'm like, oh, you're tosan, oh, it's so good to meet
you.
I've I've saw you, I've I'vesaw your cake, I've seen this.
Why are you why are you soashamed?
What are you, what are youashamed about?
Speaker 5 (29:10):
So I started sort of reframing a lot of my thoughts,
and that was where I started tofind my path to recovery, where
I started thinking more positiveand rather than thinking, you
know, you know, when thingshappen, sometimes we just some
(29:34):
people, some people, and I usedto do that a lot, kind of dwell
on, you know, why is thishappening to me?
Why me?
You know, I started changingthe narrative from why me to
what can I do here?
What's the opportunity?
Why is this happening?
(29:55):
Yes, I acknowledge it.
What is the opportunity?
What is it trying to teach me?
Jolynne Rydz (30:00):
And I love that because it kind of takes you
from this victim mindset of, youknow, why is this happening to
me?
Like I can't do anything aboutit, to this empowered state of,
well, yeah, it's happened, butwhat what can I do?
There's something I can do.
Speaker 5 (30:15):
Yeah.
And you know, the that thatvictim mentality can actually
take you down the deep tunnel,you know, once you get in that,
and I was there for a long time.
You know, and until I started,you know, sort of taking charge
of my thoughts and my emotionsand trying to channel them in a
(30:37):
way that would bring goodnessout, there was no going forward.
That's why I started to seeslight changes.
Now, Jolene, all this I'msaying, I'm just that there was
no timeline to it.
I know that I started my mirrormoment was in 2021.
(30:59):
I can't tell you, it took methree months to go through my
reflective mode and jump into myreframing mode.
It was all modeled up, but atdifferent points, I would go
back.
It's like you overcome this forone week and then something
happens, and then you go backfor two weeks and like, oh is
(31:20):
me.
I'm not never gonna get out ofthis.
And then so it was back andforth.
But at the point where Istarted to reframe, I really,
really made a deliberate effortto keep reframing.
And anything that happened, Iwould reframe.
And one of the things that Ialso did was I totally avoided
(31:44):
negative people, and I had sometoxic relationships that I just
cut out of my life because thatwas the time where I just
decided, you know what, I wantto be totally positive, and
anything that's toxic doesn'thave space in my space.
(32:05):
So that I did.
And then I now got into in allthis time, I think I sort of had
retracted.
I got into a shell, I wasn'tsocializing, I was running away
from people, I didn't want totake phone calls.
I just hid because of the senseof shame, because of the
(32:29):
failure that I felt and all ofthat.
But I slowly started to feelthe need to reconnect.
You know, by the time I'd gonethrough that phase of reframing
and, you know, what can you doout of this whole thing that
looks like compost?
(32:51):
How can you make something goodout of it?
I started wanting to reconnectwith people again.
I started having conversationswith some people to say, look,
I've been through this, theseare the challenges I've I've
been having.
I've been here, but you know,I'm feeling a lot better now,
(33:12):
and blah, blah, blah.
And, you know, all that helpedme to pull myself totally out
of, well, not totally, but youknow, slight slightly higher
than where I was before.
And I started to feel a lotmore comfortable talking about
what I what I'd been through.
(33:33):
And in talking and sharing, itnow started occurring to me that
you're not alone.
Speaker 3 (33:39):
Because I would say some things to some people and
they'd be like, I've been here,and I just didn't know how to
deal with it.
Jolynne Rydz (33:47):
Yeah, no one talks about it, right?
Like it doesn't come up at theSunday barbecue.
Speaker 3 (33:52):
No, it doesn't.
It doesn't, it doesn't come upanywhere.
Speaker 5 (33:55):
Because the thing is, if you're if you're if you're
in a leadership role or you'rein an aspiring leadership role,
I wouldn't even say leadership,you know.
I think everyone is a leader.
Jolynne Rydz (34:09):
100%.
Speaker 5 (34:10):
In one way or the other.
You know, even at home, youlead your mother, your a big
sister, your uh an auntie, yoursomething, and people look up to
you.
I know that a mother a amother's natural instinct is to
eat last.
Kids eat first, look after thekids before myself.
(34:36):
And those are all the traitsthat sort of suck self, and when
you do prolonged periods oftime without looking after
yourself, you generally tend toburn out.
Now I I had I had a bad, abroken marriage, divorced, got
(34:58):
married again.
So for me, I was dealing withwork, I was dealing with
personal problems.
My personal problems don't cometo work with me, well shouldn't
come to work with me.
But I can't ever tell you thatthey didn't show up at work.
So that's that's one thing thatI know that you know I
(35:20):
struggled with a lot where I Igo to work, I'm thinking my
ex-wife sent a stinker or didthis, or there's some drama with
the kids, and okay, I've got togo to work, just forget about
it and go to work.
I'm in a meeting, but it'sstill it's still, you know, and
(35:45):
I get signals about it throughthe entire period I'm at work,
but I can't talk about it.
So I mask no one no one shouldsee me like that at work.
Jolynne Rydz (35:59):
And what impact do you think that's had on the
people that you were leading?
They I imagine some of themwould have been quite intuitive
and empathic and sensedsomething.
What impact do you think thathad, that masking?
Speaker 5 (36:13):
Absolutely.
I call it the ripple effect.
So what what you don't say,people will see.
Now, over time, I've I've cometo understand that the most
powerful communication tool is,and no matter how much makeup
you've got on Jillian, no matterhow much done up your hair is,
(36:38):
your eyes will always give youaway.
Always.
There's there's something sopowerful about just looking in
the eyes.
You can see the joy, you cansee the sadness, you can see the
glint, you can see the dullnessor the soul.
It's always you can't hide it.
Now, I am I am certain that Ibrought the wrong vibe to work.
(37:03):
I didn't know, but when I lookback, I recall a lot of times
where the spirits at work sortof moved from one style to
another, where people'sresponses became more docile and
(37:28):
sort of quietened up ratherthan the usual Questros meetings
would be bubbly and filled withlaughter.
Speaker 3 (37:38):
And then I started realizing that I was asking a
lot of questions and nobody'sresponding.
I'm like, what's happening?
Why are you guys not sayinganything?
And I just get blank faces.
Speaker 5 (37:49):
Like, uh, but that was it.
That was it.
So what I was carrying, eventhough I didn't say it, my
people could interpret thetension that I brought to work.
Jolynne Rydz (38:02):
Yeah.
And because it's unsaid, Iimagine what tends to happen,
because I see this with clientsas well, is then then they make
all these assumptions andstories about what that could
mean.
Like, oh, is it my performance?
Like, what am I doing?
Have I done something wrong?
What's going on?
And are they sick?
Are they unwell?
What's going on?
Yeah.
So the mind loves to makemeaning when there's no meaning
(38:24):
there.
So I'm really curious.
Yeah, having had thatreflection, what do you think
you've learned over all of thisin terms of leadership and the
impact that you can have onpeople?
Speaker 5 (38:35):
I think that we need to be more in tune with our
humanity.
The model that the world hassort of taught leaders is that
you're a leader and you'rerequired to step up and be that
beacon for everyone all thetime.
(38:59):
And that's that's okay if we'rerobots.
But the last I remember is thatblood actually flows through my
veins, and there will be timeswhere I won't feel good, and
there will be times where I willbe tired, there'll be times
where I feel like giving up,there will be times.
(39:22):
So my frivolous approach wouldbe when those times come, brace
up, chin up, shoulders square,head on, face it.
But my new approach is whenthose times come, if I'm dealing
with my people or I'm dealingwith work-related matters, I
(39:46):
would I'd be honest.
I don't have to tell you thegory details.
But if I had to go back, Iprobably would tell my team,
look, I'm going through a hardtime.
You know, personal challenges,you know, things are happening.
So I need you guys to bepatient with me, hang in there.
I'm still here with you.
(40:07):
Sometimes I'm a bit grumpy orgrouchy.
It's not me.
So I love you guys.
Just give me.
And I would be honest like thatnow.
Jolynne Rydz (40:18):
And you know, I feel like that's so powerful,
and I appreciate you sharingthat because when I've seen
leaders do that, their teamleans in, right?
They come in and they supportthem, they empower them, their
performance lifts, and they justhandle stuff because they know
the person that they've alwayslooked up to just needs their
support now.
It's their turn to give back.
Like it's such a beautiful giftthat you can give someone that
(40:40):
honesty of where you're at.
Speaker 5 (40:42):
Yeah.
Absolutely.
So, I mean, that's that is whatI would advocate for any leader
to do at those points where youfeel vulnerable or you feel
like you're losing it.
There's nothing wrong in justshowing that you're human too.
And it actually bringscredibility to your leadership
(41:06):
because you're telling thepeople that you lead that you're
just like them.
And you're not setting that barthat is unreachable, where you
always have to be excellent, youalways have to be tick-top, you
always have to be on point, andalways have to be in control of
(41:29):
everything.
It is okay to lose controlsometimes.
And at those times, own it.
We're a team.
So let's rally together.
Support me.
And the same thing when you'relosing control, I'm here for
you.
So I I that was a big learningfor me.
Jolynne Rydz (41:47):
Yeah.
I mean, it builds so muchtrust, so much respect, so much
safety to be human and whole.
It's such a beautiful thing.
And so with all of theselearnings, like where where are
you taking things now?
Speaker 5 (42:01):
I'm sleeping every day, I'm not doing anything.
Oh, all right.
So I feel that I've gonethrough quite a bit in life that
has equipped me to help otherpeople.
Now, this space, especiallymen, we can be very mute when it
(42:21):
comes to what's going oninside.
We don't like to talk, we don'tlike to share.
Women are easy to talk, andthey talk to each other, and you
know, they get into a room andall chattering, and they know
everybody's history before theyleave that room.
(42:42):
Yeah, but men are a lot moreclosed, it's difficult for them
to share personal challenges.
So I'm just trying to create aplatform.
I have created it, but I'm I'mcreating more sensitization and
just making people more aware ofthe fact that we're human,
(43:04):
we've got blood running in ourveins, we feel pain.
The times that we're tired, thetimes where we feel like giving
up, the times where we feelwe've lost the game.
We need to be able to speak.
Even if we're not coming outopenly to say, this is what I'm
going through.
(43:24):
We need to be able toacknowledge it because there's a
difference betweenacknowledgement and just
throwing under the carpet andsay, you know what, I can do, I
can't deal with this right now.
Just shush, you know, leave it.
Whenever I've got time, I'lldeal with it.
And that's what we do a lot oftimes.
(43:45):
So if I'm acknowledging it,then it helps me understand
exactly what is happening andwhere I am.
So I recogni I recognize thatthis is happening.
It's a different thing fromsaying, I don't want to think
about it.
So recognition starts with itstarts with recognition where
(44:07):
you're able to just acknowledge,recognize, and be aware of what
is happening.
And if you're aware of what ishappening, then you're better
able to manage yourself.
Now, even if you're not talkingto anyone, you can you can
slowly manage yourself.
And I'm at that place where I'madvocating for organizations
(44:29):
to, yeah, we talk aboutpsychological safety, we talk
about wellness and everything.
But I'm not really sure that wetalk about it deep enough.
And I'm not really sure thatenough is being done about it.
I'm at that place where I'madvocating for people to be able
to show up as they are.
(44:50):
You know, a lot of times I justthink, even with getting a job
and job applications, if I wasgoing to get a job today,
darling, I'm going to dust up myresuming.
I mean, I will pimp it up sogood.
It will be the best of the bestof the best of the best.
(45:11):
And anything that is soundingslightly not good, I'm going to
pull out.
Speaker 3 (45:18):
But that's all a lie.
Jolynne Rydz (45:19):
It's only half of you, right?
When they do that.
Speaker 3 (45:22):
Yes.
So uh why can't I come up towork and say this is who I am?
I've learned from XYZ.
I went through this, thishappened to me.
You know, I had challenges hereand there and there.
But you know what?
Speaker 5 (45:39):
I'm better off for it, and I'm the man for the job
because I have lived experienceof this, this, and that.
And for me, that's that's whatit should be.
But we never come up showingthe bad parts.
It's always the good parts weput on our resume.
I think it takes away from theessence of who we are, and it
(45:59):
takes away from our humanity.
So that narrative of trying tolook good all the time is
something that I'm hoping thatover time we can begin to
realize that come on, we'rehuman.
Jolynne Rydz (46:14):
Oh, we'll we're gonna make a shift.
Don't worry, I'm on the samepath.
It's gonna it's happening, it'shappening in some places.
I hope it does.
Yeah, well, let's make ithappen.
That ripple impact, like yousaid, because it's you know, I
don't know.
I think there's because it's sonormalized to not do that.
I'm I believe there's a lot ofleaders and organizations out
(46:37):
there that don't understand orsee the true impact, positive
impact it can have when youallow people to show up as their
wholesales.
Like it does increaseproductivity, increases
connection, increasesengagement, increases
psychological safety, increaseswell-being, reduces stress.
It's all the things that we tryand throw these big initiatives
at and lots of money at.
Tosan Jemide (46:56):
Yeah, yeah.
Jolynne Rydz (46:58):
And yet, if you just allow people to be
themselves, a lot of this willnaturally resolve itself.
Speaker (47:04):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (47:04):
Yeah.
You know, once I once I'mcomfortable in my skin, then I
perform at peak.
unknown (47:11):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (47:12):
If I'm not, then my performance is actually going to
be half or less than half.
Speaker 5 (47:19):
It will dwindle, you know.
So I hope that it will be seenfrom this perspective over time,
and you know, people can wearless masks and be more
authentic, and real talent andskills can come out, and teams
can actually be like safety netsfor people.
Speaker (47:43):
Yeah.
Jolynne Rydz (47:45):
You're giving me tinkles.
Speaker (47:46):
I love it so much.
Jolynne Rydz (47:47):
Now, before I land into our Swift 7 questions, is
there anything else you want toshare with the audience today?
Speaker 5 (47:55):
Well, I think that one of the things that I wanted
to talk about was my rewireframework.
Jolynne Rydz (48:01):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (48:02):
Which I spoke about earlier on, but maybe just go a
bit deeper into it and justreminding people, first of all,
you know, I'd say that asleaders, uh, we try to be
perfect all the time.
Because that's what is expectedof us to be leaders.
(48:25):
We have to be perfect.
Well, if we're all models, wehave to be the ones raising the
bar, just showing people theway.
Or even at that, are you areyou me?
Jolynne Rydz (48:37):
No, not myself.
Speaker 5 (48:38):
No, okay.
So I am a Christian.
I I just want to use somethingfrom like in the Bible, Moses
was asked by God to dosomething, you know, and he was
asked to go and talk.
But Moses had a stutter.
He was asked to go and talk toPharaoh, the king, to let the
(49:03):
Israelites go.
But he had he had a starter andhe felt so incompetent.
And I'm just using this as ananalogy to show that even as
leaders, we don't have to beperfect.
We come with our humanity justas we are.
What gives us the right to beleaders is the fact that we're
(49:28):
failed.
So we can stir people in thedirection of success because we
understand what failure is aboutand they can see that we have
failed.
So that way, when we say it'sgo right, they they tend to
listen better because he's beenleft before.
I don't want to go there.
And I think that in that space,you know, we're more effective,
(49:54):
we need to be more present, weneed to learn how to pause this
thing about, yeah, let's dothings quickly, let's do things
speedily, we've got targets,we've got a lot of KPIs and
performance-driven, you know,organizations.
Yeah, it's all good, but let'slearn to pause more.
(50:16):
And in that pause, we're goingto be more reflective.
And it helps us to be moreproductive at the end of the
day, where we can go through uhour days doing a lot of
reflection and stopping andslowing down to actually see
where we are, where we're comingfrom and where we need to go
(50:39):
to.
If you don't pause all thatcan't happen.
It's not about strategy, youknow.
So I want to sort of get peopleto embrace more, you know, the
reflective approach to workrather than the speedy approach.
Think it's one of the thingsthat I'm driving as a human
(51:00):
being and practicing it everyday, and I see that it works.
Where sometimes I just thinkthat my pauses are too much, but
I look back and I feel like I'mnot I'm not ruffled.
Very little ruffles me becauseI stop.
And I don't care what'shappening.
I just stop.
And if if leaders can do that,just pause, stop in the chaos.
(51:24):
You know, the roofs, the roof'scoming off, yes, stop.
How are we gonna fix it?
You need to you need to stop tothink deeply and creatively.
If you join the bandwagon andjoin the chaos, then how do you
show true leadership?
(51:44):
And how do you actually bringout what nobody else has thought
about in order to direct andyou know choreograph you know
success.
So that's what I advocate.
Jolynne Rydz (51:57):
Yeah.
And it's so true.
You can't like in your whenyou're in the storm, you can't
see what's going on, but whenyou you step back and you can
see the whole system, it's somuch easier to diagnose what
needs to be done and a wayforward.
And it totally resonates withme that the way a leader earns
(52:18):
that respect to to have peoplefollow and come with them is
through those challenges.
It's literally designed in allof our stories, all of our
movies, right?
Have the hero moment where theycrash and they come through it.
Even in child's children'sstories, like there's so so
much, it's so encoded into ourhuman nature.
Speaker 3 (52:37):
Absolutely.
Jolynne Rydz (52:40):
So let's embrace it.
Amazing.
So I am so excited to hop intothis with seven, and then we'll
talk about how people canconnect and learn more about the
rewire code.
So, in your view, this isquestion one, what are three
words to describe an idealleader?
Speaker 5 (52:57):
An ideal leader, human.
An ideal leader must be human.
Ideal leader should be shouldbe able to come down to
everyone's level, not up there,be on the floor and let people
feel comfortable.
(53:18):
And an ideal leader should haveempathy.
Empathy, for me, empathy iskey, is a key element of
leadership.
I think those are the threethat I'd say humanity.
Well, humanity and empathy,there are a lot of overlaps, but
humanity, empathy, and thenalso being able to stoop at the
(53:43):
times where it's required to.
Yeah.
Jolynne Rydz (53:46):
Yeah, and be relatable.
Totally.
Yeah.
Question two.
Fill in the blank.
Speaker 3 (53:51):
Magnetic authenticity is magnetic authenticity is
fill in the blank.
Speaker 5 (53:58):
Would I say now that question is it about me to
someone else or just a generalquestion?
Jolynne Rydz (54:09):
General question.
Whatever comes to mind.
Speaker 5 (54:10):
Yeah, I wouldn't overanalyze it.
I'd say kindness.
Jolynne Rydz (54:15):
Yeah.
Oh my gosh.
Kindness is so attractive,right?
It just draws people in.
Yeah.
Yes.
Speaker 5 (54:21):
Kindness.
Jolynne Rydz (54:21):
I couldn't agree more.
Question three for you.
When you notice yourself tryingto fit in, what's the first
thing you do?
Speaker 5 (54:29):
Pull back.
Now I pull back.
Before I would try to fit in.
Now if I if I'm not fitting inand I'm trying to fit in, that
means no, I'm not, I'm not meantto be there.
So I just pull back.
Jolynne Rydz (54:43):
What a what an energy saver, right?
If you just pull back for me,and that's okay.
I love it.
All right.
Question four.
What song gets you reallypumped?
Speaker 3 (54:54):
Let's prove tonight.
Yeah, the science of life.
Jolynne Rydz (54:59):
Is that CDB?
Speaker 5 (55:01):
No, it's I think it's Earth, Wind, and Fire.
Jolynne Rydz (55:04):
Oh, yeah, yeah.
Okay.
Yep.
Yep.
Cool.
And all right, question five.
What's the most daring thingyou've ever done?
Speaker 5 (55:13):
Most daring thing I've ever done in my entire
life.
Okay.
I think it would be in my teensor in uni days, where we had
some really crazy times.
And this was all arounddrinking.
And I had a challenge to finisha bottle of.
Speaker (55:32):
I could see where this is going.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (55:36):
And I finished it and I stood.
Speaker (55:40):
Oh wow.
Speaker 5 (55:41):
Yeah.
Speaker (55:43):
That's pretty daring.
Did your mom know about thatstory?
Speaker 4 (55:47):
No.
I would have done this match.
Jolynne Rydz (55:50):
You know, masks off now.
All masks off.
All right.
So question six is Do you havea favorite quote or mantra that
you live by?
Speaker 5 (55:57):
Actually, I do.
And it's simply love oneanother.
Love one another.
Um, and just what I don't wantto be done to me, I don't want
to do to you, and just love oneanother.
I think I try to live by thatas much as possible.
(56:18):
Sometimes it's difficult whenyou meet complete assholes.
Speaker (56:25):
I do love you.
I think I love you.
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (56:28):
You know, but you know, I think I am I am slowly.
I mean, the other day I was inmy car.
I was trying to park, and I I Ithink I was blocking someone,
and but I was trying tomanoeuvre and it was a tight
space, you know, and I get thisguy who comes and knocks on my
(56:49):
window and like and he'sspitting fire.
Speaker 3 (56:54):
What's happening here?
Speaker 5 (56:55):
And all sorts of swear words and slur.
And you know what?
The old me would have joined inthe spitting fire.
But I just looked at him and Isaid, How are you today?
Speaker 3 (57:08):
And he just can ask me that question.
Jolynne Rydz (57:12):
I would have made him pause.
Speaker 3 (57:14):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (57:16):
And you know, he just kept on, and I just I just
looked forward.
I looked, I faced forward and Ididn't say anything to him.
And when he was tired, he justleft.
Now for me, that was a show oflove.
You know, because I'm just notgonna get in, I'm not gonna get
into this with you.
So I'm trying, I'm stilllearning, but I guess if if we
(57:38):
all show each other love, theworld would definitely be a
better place.
Jolynne Rydz (57:42):
Yeah, so much better in so many ways.
I love that.
And how just holding space forthat for people, you know.
We all have our moments.
Yeah.
Yep, and holding that space forpeople.
That's beautiful.
And I don't know what it isabout cars.
Like, I feel like this oncepeople are in a car, all beds
are off and we're suddenlyangry, like so angry.
(58:02):
It's all about yeah, it's allabout me.
Speaker 3 (58:07):
I I get that sense, and sometimes just in one split
second, people are just hootingand come on, patient.
It's just one second.
Jolynne Rydz (58:21):
Yeah.
Yeah.
I think it's a symptom of maybehow much we don't realize we're
on this hustle train, likeconstant race forward.
Speaker 3 (58:31):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Jolynne Rydz (58:32):
And it just boils over.
All right.
So our final question, questionseven, is what's one small
thing that brings you incrediblejoy?
Speaker 5 (58:40):
One small thing that brings me incredible joy is
baking.
Cooking.
I I love to bake, I love tocook.
There are many small things.
I love to snuggle with myfamily and just yeah.
I'm a home.
Jolynne Rydz (58:53):
Yeah, yeah.
And life is so beautiful whenyou can fill it with those small
things, right?
That really matter.
It's not always that big goal.
And now you've had some biggoals that you haven't mentioned
here today, but I'll leavepeople with that so they go and
look it up.
And I would love to share withthe audience where can they find
you if they want to know moreabout the Rewire Corridor and
what you do.
Speaker 5 (59:13):
So they can go to my website, which is
www.letsbakeit.com.au, and itit's that sort of has all my
programs there.
We've got different programsfor different teams, and our
signature program is called Bakeand Breathe, which is basically
(59:35):
a hands-on bacon.
It could be a half a day orfull day, and it's specifically
for teams who are looking tojust slow down bond through the
process of baking.
And I structured it in such away that it's not a difficult
(01:00:01):
challenge.
People who feel, oh, I can'tbake, you know, I'm I'm anxious,
I come in, you know, what do Iit's easy ass.
But you know, in that wholeprocess, you're entrenched into
reflectives all through.
You're asking yourself a lot ofquestions.
That program actually startswith a mirror moment.
Speaker 4 (01:00:23):
Cool.
Speaker 5 (01:00:24):
So they're baking, they're baking toolkits, which
is a nice purple box that hasaffirmation cards, it has your
reflective sheets, it has yourpre-mix for your recipe, baking
your cakes or whatever, it hasyour apron, and when you open
that box, you open it up into amirror.
(01:00:45):
Yeah.
And so I just kind of giveeveryone five minutes of quiet
reflection.
Look at your face.
Yes, you're beautiful, you'vegot the makeup on, you look
amazing.
But what else is there that youhaven't owned?
What's in the heart?
What's deep in there?
What are you carrying?
What did you bring with you?
(01:01:06):
What have you been holding?
What are you afraid to talkabout or to think about?
And it's a self-reflection,which we don't get to share
during the class, but it sort ofbegins to open people up to
what's gonna happen later in theworkshop.
So that workshop is reallyreflective.
(01:01:28):
It encourages teamwork, teamspirit, and a lot of team
support because through theprogram we're talking a lot
about what people carry.
So I come to work, but I'mburdened with kids at home and
(01:01:49):
grouchy, and everyone looks atme as you know, she's ugly,
grouchy, you know, but nobodyreally knows what I'm I'm coming
with.
So it's that whole supportingyour team, supporting your team
member, trying to find out wherethey are or understand where
(01:02:10):
they are, or just just holdspace for them without judging.
So that program is is like I'vedone a few of that program and
it's been amazing.
Feedback has been really great.
There are a few other programs,but go to the website and you
know you just see what what'savailable there.
Jolynne Rydz (01:02:30):
Yeah, I can imagine.
I'm like I'm sitting herelistening to you, I'm nerding
out because as a facilitator,I'm like, oh wow, that is such a
cool activity.
It's like a literal reflection.
And then it's built on all thismeaning that you've just shared
with us.
Speaker 4 (01:02:42):
So it tingles again.
Jolynne Rydz (01:02:44):
So thank you so much, Tosan, for joining us on
the podcast today and for justsharing from your heart and soul
about your journey, yourchallenges, and it's so
important and aligned with whatyou've said about advocating for
people to bring their wholesand enable those spaces for
people to bring their wholeselves to work because it's so
incredibly powerful.
(01:03:05):
I can't wait.
I want to go to this workshop.
Yeah, come on, read it on.
So I'll be there.
Let me know when the next oneis.
And thank you so much foreverything you've shared today.
Speaker 5 (01:03:16):
Thank you so much Jolynne.
It's been an absolute pleasure.
I've had a really nice timetalking to you.
Um, it's been, yeah, it's beensome time we've spent now, and
it feels like we've just spokenfor like 20 minutes.
Jolynne Rydz (01:03:29):
I know, I know.
So thanks to everyone.
If you've made it this far,congrats.
All right.
Tosan Jemide (01:03:36):
Thank you.
Thank you so much.
Jolynne Rydz (01:03:38):
Goodbye.
How good was that?
I don't know about you, but I'min the mood for baking some
cookies right now.
So, what I loved about thatconversation with Tosan was that
there was some real raw honestyabout what he thought
leadership was, and then thosedeep moments of realization of
(01:04:01):
what it could be and how itcould be different, and how
important it is to recognizewhen you've got those masks on
and decide to take them off whenit feels right for you.
And also that that journey cantake a long time.
One of the other things I lovedabout the conversation was that
(01:04:22):
point of at one point henoticed he was chasing
perfection over progress.
And how special is it when wecan switch that and look to
progress over perfection.
And I think the final thingthat I really appreciated about
Tosan's conversation was justthat deeply passionate message
(01:04:47):
around the need for leaders topause and refine their rhythm.
So thank you so much forlistening.
Always remember you were bornfor a reason and it's time to
thrive.
Hi everyone, I'm Jolynne Rydz, host of the
Magnetic Authenticity Podcast.
And today we're speaking withTosan Gregory Jemide, a speaker,
restorative leadershiparchitect, and author, best
known as the creator of theRewire Code, a reflective
framework that helps leadersrecover from burnout and lead
(01:34):
with renewed rhythm.
Drawing from his own journey ofcreative entrepreneurship and
exhaustion, Tosan fusesstorytelling, psychology, and
the art of baking intotransformative approach to
leadership and well-being.
His message is deeply humanthat strength isn't found in
(01:59):
perfection, but in presence.
Through keynotes, workshops,and the Rewired Journey program.
Tosan empowers leaders to slowdown, mix well, and lead better.
Because leadership begins whenyou pause and find rhythm.
(02:19):
So let's dive into today'sepisode.
Welcome into the podcast,Tosan.
I'm so excited to have you heretoday.
Speaker 5 (02:29):
Thank you so much, Jolynne.
It is my pleasure.
I have been looking forward tothis forever.
Oh, good.
Thanks.
Jolynne Rydz (02:36):
We're gonna have fun today.
Speaker 5 (02:38):
I think so.
I've got a I've got a sneakyfeeling, Will Will.
Jolynne Rydz (02:42):
Yeah, yeah.
I I always love theseconversations because you you
learn so much more about ahuman.
And I think in those humanconnection moments, that's where
we you just learn some of themost profound lessons in life.
Speaker 5 (02:55):
Absolutely.
Absolutely.
I'm going to try and teach youor show you so much.
Jolynne Rydz (03:02):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (03:03):
That you know, I've been thinking to myself, what am
I going to say today?
How much do I want to say?
That's the question I've beenasking myself.
But I think I want to say alot.
Jolynne Rydz (03:16):
Let's let's just see where the conversation goes,
right?
And what's meant to be is meantto be.
All right.
So I I'm I'll share somethingwith you that you might not
know.
So growing up, I was definitelysomeone who watched a lot of
cooking shows, a lot of bakingcompetitions.
And so I'm I'm curious to know,there's something really
(03:37):
magical when you you take foodand you take creativity and you
put challenge and you put it alltogether.
So I I'd love to know a littlebit about your journey towards
becoming really what is acelebrity baker.
You've done some really coolthings in your career.
So feel feel free to share someof them.
But I'd love to hear like alittle bit of your journey to
where you are today.
Speaker 5 (03:58):
I usually like to say bacon found me.
I didn't find it.
Tosan Jemide (04:03):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (04:04):
I sort of I stumbled, I stumbled into it um when I
was 17, 18.
Now, my mom was a great baker.
She used to do a lot of weddingcakes from home, nothing
(04:24):
commercial, and just I used tohelp her a lot.
I kind of was that um littlehandbag, the mommy's boy kind of
boy.
So all my siblings would runaway, and she had a day job, and
she'd come back tired andwanting help.
(04:44):
You know, there's no mixersthen.
It was like everything was byhand, and you know, I had to
help her.
And I did it gladly.
And then, unfortunately, shepassed on when I was 14, and
then three three years later, myeldest brother was getting
married, and he says, Look,there's no way I'm paying for a
(05:09):
wedding cake.
Because so many wedding cakeshave left these doors for free,
and I can't imagine payingsomeone for a wedding cake.
And then he said to me, Well,if there's anyone who's got that
slight chance of baking a cake,it's going to be you to us.
I'm like, hell, no way.
(05:31):
I've never baked a cake in mylife.
Speaker 3 (05:33):
Like, so I'm just the mixer.
I just used to mix and likelick the bowls, scrape it.
I never baked a cake in mylife.
I didn't would have a clue.
Speaker 5 (05:44):
They say, Well, I'm gonna take a chance in you.
If it turns out right, fine.
If it doesn't, I'm willing totake the chance, you know.
And if you don't want to do it,that's fine too.
I'm just not gonna have awedding cake.
So that got to me.
I went back to the lab, got outall my mom's old stuff, and
(06:06):
started just experimenting.
And eventually I picked thecake.
And for what it was, first timeit was well applauded, it was
well received.
And that's how my journeystarted.
I didn't think I'd makeanything of it after that.
It was for me, it was just aone-off.
I'd pick my brother's cake andthat's it, move on to other
(06:27):
things.
I was into clothing as well.
So I started a clothing linestraight after school, straight
after, in fact, right from uni,I had a clothing line.
You know, I just used tooutsource the tailoring and, you
know, create the designs,outsource tailoring and sell
them.
So straight after school, Istarted my clothing line and I
(06:51):
was doing all of that.
People just, family, friendsjust kept wanting me to bake
cakes.
Bake me birthday cake, bake methis.
And then it started gettingmore into bake me a wedding
cake, bake me a wedding cake.
I'm like, I don't have theskills for this.
You guys leave me alone.
I'm just so nervous, I don'tknow anything about baking.
So eventually, I actuallystarted getting quite passionate
(07:16):
about it.
But I started feelinginadequate because I I didn't
think I had the prerequisiteskills.
I hadn't trained, I hadn't doneanything.
Then I decided, okay, you knowwhat?
Go and get some training andsee how it goes.
So I went to the UK.
Um a lot of courses to do, butI didn't want to do a course.
(07:39):
I decided to work rather thando a course.
So I started from ground up.
I worked in like probably mystint in the UK.
I've probably worked in maybelike five or six different
bakeries, you know, hobnobbing,getting different skills,
different ideas, and just beingdigging myself into the real
(08:03):
how-to process of you know,making cakes from scratch and
running a bakery.
So that was an excellentexperience.
And you know, I I I wouldalways advocate for
apprenticeship rather than goingto school because the value is
not something I can I can touch.
(08:23):
By the time I was done, Iprobably I worked my last
bakery.
I worked in, we worked, we wesupplied cakes to like the
high-end, high stretch stores,Harold's, Haver Nicole's, and
you know, all those sort ofstores.
And Gloriet was my last stuffwhere at that point I'd already
(08:46):
started getting a lot of cakeorders, personal business, and
you know, so I just I'm done.
I started my own businessagain, and that's how I ended
up.
Then I ended up back inNigeria, and at that time,
Nigeria, the cake industry inNigeria was still very small and
(09:10):
undead developed, but you know,I brought a lot of zest and you
know creativity to it, andeveryone started to see a
different side of cakes becausethere's this guy who's baking
amazing cakes, he's creative, hedoes this with cake, he does
this with sugar, and you know,and right now today the the cake
(09:34):
industry in Nigeria is maybe onevery street, there's like 20
Wow.
Jolynne Rydz (09:38):
So you're like the almost like the founder of
cakes in or commercial cakes inNigeria.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 5 (09:44):
Yeah, yeah.
Uh absolutely.
And really, that's that'sthat's my story.
That's how cakes found me.
And then I obviously started toget tired of you know running
that model of baking cakesbecame my life, and not just
baking cakes, people, peoplewould come to me because they
(10:05):
expected every cake I did had tobe different.
So I I always had to extend mycreativity, raise the bar.
They're always highexpectations.
Tosan's doing your cake, ohwow.
Tosna's doing your cake, ohwow.
You know, who oh, that cakemust have been done by Tosna.
(10:26):
That must be it.
So the expectations were reallyhigh, and I always had to keep
pushing and raising the bar, andthat was a very difficult thing
for me to do.
Um, there are times where Idoubted my capability because I
was tired or I was feeling burntup, but I still had to just
(10:46):
keep going because people expectmagic from me.
I'm like, so that was hard.
Jolynne Rydz (10:54):
And I love that you shared that because I think
there's a lot of people that uhI'm great at what they do, and
and as leaders, they're great,but there's this constant chase
of getting better and better andbetter.
At what point do you make thatswitch from I'm doing this from
a place of creativity andpassion versus it now feels like
this, I don't know, thisobligation, this kind of
(11:17):
everyday grind almost?
Speaker 5 (11:19):
Yeah, I think that that that sucks the joy out of
it, because I realized after awhile, the more I did it, the
more the less joy I got out ofit, because I sort of I was on
this pedestal where I felt I wasbeing judged.
(11:40):
And for every cake that wentout there, it went out with some
level of prepetition, and I hadpalpitations because hope this
one will be received well.
Speaker 3 (11:53):
It was received well, thank God.
Good, great, great.
Speaker 5 (11:56):
Okay, what's the next one?
So there was just that constantfear where my creativity was no
longer express itself naturallyand just be left as is.
It was always judged.
You know, so that was that wasdifficult.
Jolynne Rydz (12:15):
Yeah, definitely.
Because I I mean, creativecreativity is almost a form of
identity and expression, isn'tit?
So to have to have to havesomeone say, Hey, that I don't
know if that's a Tasan levelcake.
Like that's pretty tough,right?
Speaker 4 (12:30):
Yeah.
And I got I got a few knockslike that, you know.
Speaker 5 (12:35):
And what do you do?
You're you're not the judge,you're not the jury, you're just
the creator.
And the end user has told you,you know, uh, I don't like this
cake.
Sometimes I'd have to, if if Ihad the opportunity, I would
pull it back if there's enoughtime, or I'd go into sets and
(12:59):
try and tweak it and turn itinto something else closer to
what the expectation is.
But it was it was reallydifficult managing all those
things.
And you know, in retrospect,when I think about how I
managed, sometimes I don't, I'mnot sure I can put in words how
(13:20):
difficult those times were forme where I had to first of all
not just manage making cakes,but you know, I'm managing so
many emotions from brides who uhsometimes flip in and freaking
out.
I I don't know.
(13:41):
There are times I'll justswitch off.
I'm like, you know what?
I can't do this.
Jolynne Rydz (13:46):
And when in that journey did you feel like was
the turning point of no, Iactually can't do this anymore?
Speaker 5 (13:53):
Because I enjoyed and I was very passionate, cakes, I
dreamed cakes, I breathed, Ibreathed in cakes, I slept
cakes, I woke up with cakes onmy mind, I walked the streets
with cakes in my mind.
I'm looking at your backdropand I'm looking at what design
is there and how I can, youknow, translate that into a
(14:14):
cake.
I'm walking the streets and artshops or everything.
My brain picked cakes.
So it was really difficult forme to separate myself from my
craft.
My my daily grind, even when Iwasn't working, I was still, my
(14:35):
brain was still on work mode.
So I don't think I had aseparate life.
And I'm not sure I really wasable to identify when I started
to unravel.
I just knew that there weretimes where I felt my creativity
(14:56):
was dwindling and I wasn't asspontaneous as I usually would
be when I'm churning out a cakeand my brain's working like mad
scientists, and you know, ohyeah, let's do this there.
I started to slow down and Istarted realizing that I needed
(15:17):
more time.
So I would cut, take breaks, goout for a walk, chill, relax,
come back.
I was then I started feeling,you know, probably I'm I'm
overextended or something'swrong here.
I think that's when, but Ican't tell you, Joelyn, that it
was a particular time.
Jolynne Rydz (15:38):
Yeah, and I I imagine there's a lot of leaders
out there that have reached,you know, the career high that
they thought they were strivingso long to get to.
And then it almost sounds likeit can become a trap when it's
it's no longer fueled from thatpassion and that early
entrepreneurship.
And now it's like, well, wheredo I go from here?
I I just can almost just sensemy joy and energy slipping away.
(16:02):
And and what do I do with that?
Speaker 5 (16:04):
It is a trap.
It is a trap.
You know, I think sometimeswhen I started off, you know,
the world is a very it's it'sactually a funny, funny place,
and the models that runachievement and being able to
strive for excellence, it's atrap because you start off.
(16:28):
Well, I started off simple.
I just want to do my thing.
You know, I I enjoy doing this,I can do it in a hole.
I don't care who's looking atme.
In fact, I don't want anyone tolook at me.
This is just something that Ienjoy doing.
All the time I made cakes, Inever went to the venue to uh
(16:56):
present the cake or stay and youknow take the accolades that
came with the cake because Imade your cake, I'm not
celebrating myself.
So, but because there's so muchthat goes with you achieved
this, so we're looking for yournext next achievement.
(17:17):
What are you going to do next?
How are you going to outdo thisone?
So you're being judgedconstantly, consistently, and
you're you're you're also raringto be judged because you take
on the challenge as a leader,and you're saying, well, yeah,
bring it on, I'll do myself.
Next time I'll do better, andyou just keep going and going
(17:41):
and going.
I don't think that you actuallyrealize that, you know, that
matrix for performance as set bythe world, you actually start
running with it veryunconsciously, and then you get
into that trap.
Jolynne Rydz (18:02):
And was there ever a time where you felt like I'm
I'm wearing a mask, I don'tknow, I don't know who I am
anymore.
Speaker 4 (18:10):
Is that a trick question?
Was there ever a time I wore amask?
In fact, I had different typesof masks.
Speaker 5 (18:20):
I was I was a king of masks.
Speaker 4 (18:22):
Right.
Speaker 5 (18:24):
And depending on where I was rocking up to,
depending on who I was tryingto, I don't want to use the word
impress, but that's the onlyword that comes naturally,
depending on who I was trying toimpress.
I would wear that specific maskfor the audience.
Now, you know, in my in myjourney of leadership, I
(18:47):
realized that I couldn't affordto be human, I couldn't afford
to show up in my real face a lotof times, because a lot of
times that real face or realself would have fallen short of
the expectations that differentpeople had of me.
(19:10):
So I was the role model, I wasthe dependable one, I was the
Mr.
Fixit, I was the man who alwayshad it together, you know.
Come on.
And I go in as that.
So that's what that's that'sthe mindset people have of me,
and I've sort of tried to alignwith it.
(19:32):
Now, on the days where I'm notfeeling like that, what do I do?
I've just got to go in lookinglike that even when I don't feel
it.
Jolynne Rydz (19:41):
And what did that cost you?
Speaker 5 (19:42):
Yeah.
A lot.
You know, I started to see atthe time I can't tell you that I
felt it cost me anything.
I just felt like I wasperforming to play the role that
(20:05):
was required of me.
And I honestly didn't seeanything wrong in it.
That's that's what leaders do,isn't it?
They show off regardless of howyou're feeling.
You're required to show up.
The people who depend on you,the people who look up to you,
you just got to show up.
So I didn't make anything ofit.
(20:28):
But I think over time I startedto see two different people,
and that's when I I startedgetting a little bit of a
niggling that you know there'ssomething going on here.
You've got Tosan who isemotional, um more sensitive, a
(20:54):
bit more spontaneous, and justsometimes laid back.
But on the other side, you'vegot Tosan who is meticulous, who
has to always show excellenceevery time who has.
To choose perfection, becausethat's what people expect of
(21:16):
him.
And that place and thatposition of just always choosing
perfection over progress andperformance over presence.
By the time I got to the end ofthe road, I felt like I'd lost
my soul.
I felt like I'd lost theessence of who I really was.
And I don't know what else tosay, how else to say this, but
(21:38):
it cost me a lot.
And you know, if you feel likeyou lost your soul, I'm that's
that feels like you you lostyour identity.
You lost who you don't youdon't even know who you are.
Jolynne Rydz (21:48):
Yeah, and I appreciate you sharing this
because I I do know because Isee them, so many leaders out
there that are dancing aroundthat point of well, yeah.
I'm these two people.
Who where am I in in those inthese masks?
So it takes a lot of courage toshare that.
So thank you.
Speaker 5 (22:08):
You're welcome.
I can talk talk about thesethings now.
There was a time where Icouldn't talk about it at all.
Just because of the I feltthere was a certain shame tag,
and it would be coming across asfailure.
(22:28):
So zip it and just brace up andget on with life.
But I I've been liberated now.
Jolynne Rydz (22:39):
Yeah.
And so talk me through thisjourney to liberation.
What you you were at that pointwhere you felt like you lost
your soul.
How did you come through that?
Speaker 5 (22:48):
How did I go through that?
You know, a lot of times inlife, some things happen and you
see yourself on the other side.
You're not really sure how yougot there.
It wasn't something that youyou sort of curated and said,
you know, this is my strategyfor getting there.
(23:09):
But by the time I'd gotten tothe other side, I started to ask
this question you're asking.
I started to ask myself, youknow, how did you get out of
this?
What did you do?
Because I remember how much,how dark those times were for
(23:31):
you.
What what what brought you out?
And I started realizing fromthe point where I had what I
call my mirror moment, which wasone evening after work, I had I
had an encounter with myself,and that was a turning point for
(23:53):
me.
Looking at myself in the mirrorthat night really brought out a
lot of pent-up emotions that Ihadn't sort of expended over
years.
And that night I broke, Ilooked in the mirror, and I saw
somebody I didn't recognize.
(24:14):
I saw someone who was lost.
There's I had a lot of built-infear.
I felt so lonely.
I couldn't talk to anyone.
I couldn't, I couldn't eventalk to my wife, you know.
Um, each time I I shudderedabout each time I thought about
talking to someone, you know, Ishudder, I'm like, no, no, you
(24:35):
can't.
People, people look up to you,you know.
How how's it gonna look?
You know, you can't.
So I just took it on.
And that night, I broke downcompletely.
I cried like I hadn't cried ina long time.
I felt a strong sense of shamethat night.
(24:58):
Failure or shame, failure,shame.
And it just came across to meas, you know, okay, now you've
discovered that something'swrong, but you know, what else?
I still couldn't talk to anyoneabout it.
So I started to internalize alot.
But in my process ofinternalizing, I was asking a
(25:20):
lot of questions and answeringthem.
Okay, so that that what I callthe the private collapse.
I started asking questions, youknow, where why what brought
you here?
How did you get here?
You know, you you everyoneadmires you so much.
They still do.
(25:40):
Oh, I why do you feel so bad?
Why do you feel so much shame?
Why do you feel like a failure?
Why are you so afraid?
Why are you so unchosed?
What are you?
So I started answering, askinga lot of those questions.
And one thing that I realizedin that time was I had an
(26:01):
awakening.
So I didn't have any solutions,but there was a clear
understanding that I was in thepits.
And that recognition was one ofthe best things that happened
to me because it helped me startto think about what position do
(26:22):
I need to take.
Now, this process wasn'tovernight.
I had my mirror moment.
Maybe it took me one year todeal with, you know, the
emotions that came with that,and repeat and repeat how bad
I'm fitting, how I suck ateverything, and how much of a
(26:46):
fit.
I just had to keep, but I knewwhat was going on.
And then I'm not sure at whatpoint, but I started finding way
to sort of burn my creativeenergy aside from work.
I started doing things likejust doing a lot of swimming,
(27:09):
spending one hour in water,doing laps.
I would come back home, bake acake, bake some cookies, um,
experiment.
I wasn't even trying to use anyrecipe.
I would just basically put itin the oven.
(27:33):
And it was those were like myhappy times where for whatever
reason, I I I'm not sure why Iwas doing it, but you know, I
just knew that nobody wasjudging me.
Nobody was caring if thecookies got burnt or if they
tasted shitty.
And it gave me a feeling andsense of security.
(27:57):
Then I started spending moretime doing stuff that would put
me out of the radar of people'sscrutiny.
And I think in that space,still a prolonged time, I'm not
sure how long, but I know that Istarted sort of reframing a lot
(28:21):
of my initial thoughts about,you know, if I if I if my mind
goes to the fact that, you know,I'm feeling shame, then I start
challenging my mind, like, whyyou why are you feeling shame?
What what have you done?
Why are you so ashamed?
And then I look around me, Isee that I've I have a beautiful
(28:47):
wife, I have kids that love me,I have a business that I've
grown and grown successfully.
I walk the streets, I seepeople every day.
Speaker 3 (28:59):
I'm like, oh, you're tosan, oh, it's so good to meet
you.
I've I've saw you, I've I'vesaw your cake, I've seen this.
Why are you why are you soashamed?
What are you, what are youashamed about?
Speaker 5 (29:10):
So I started sort of reframing a lot of my thoughts,
and that was where I started tofind my path to recovery, where
I started thinking more positiveand rather than thinking, you
know, you know, when thingshappen, sometimes we just some
(29:34):
people, some people, and I usedto do that a lot, kind of dwell
on, you know, why is thishappening to me?
Why me?
You know, I started changingthe narrative from why me to
what can I do here?
What's the opportunity?
Why is this happening?
(29:55):
Yes, I acknowledge it.
What is the opportunity?
What is it trying to teach me?
Jolynne Rydz (30:00):
And I love that because it kind of takes you
from this victim mindset of, youknow, why is this happening to
me?
Like I can't do anything aboutit, to this empowered state of,
well, yeah, it's happened, butwhat what can I do?
There's something I can do.
Speaker 5 (30:15):
Yeah.
And you know, the that thatvictim mentality can actually
take you down the deep tunnel,you know, once you get in that,
and I was there for a long time.
You know, and until I started,you know, sort of taking charge
of my thoughts and my emotionsand trying to channel them in a
(30:37):
way that would bring goodnessout, there was no going forward.
That's why I started to seeslight changes.
Now, Jolene, all this I'msaying, I'm just that there was
no timeline to it.
I know that I started my mirrormoment was in 2021.
(30:59):
I can't tell you, it took methree months to go through my
reflective mode and jump into myreframing mode.
It was all modeled up, but atdifferent points, I would go
back.
It's like you overcome this forone week and then something
happens, and then you go backfor two weeks and like, oh is
(31:20):
me.
I'm not never gonna get out ofthis.
And then so it was back andforth.
But at the point where Istarted to reframe, I really,
really made a deliberate effortto keep reframing.
And anything that happened, Iwould reframe.
And one of the things that Ialso did was I totally avoided
(31:44):
negative people, and I had sometoxic relationships that I just
cut out of my life because thatwas the time where I just
decided, you know what, I wantto be totally positive, and
anything that's toxic doesn'thave space in my space.
(32:05):
So that I did.
And then I now got into in allthis time, I think I sort of had
retracted.
I got into a shell, I wasn'tsocializing, I was running away
from people, I didn't want totake phone calls.
I just hid because of the senseof shame, because of the
(32:29):
failure that I felt and all ofthat.
But I slowly started to feelthe need to reconnect.
You know, by the time I'd gonethrough that phase of reframing
and, you know, what can you doout of this whole thing that
looks like compost?
(32:51):
How can you make something goodout of it?
I started wanting to reconnectwith people again.
I started having conversationswith some people to say, look,
I've been through this, theseare the challenges I've I've
been having.
I've been here, but you know,I'm feeling a lot better now,
(33:12):
and blah, blah, blah.
And, you know, all that helpedme to pull myself totally out
of, well, not totally, but youknow, slight slightly higher
than where I was before.
And I started to feel a lotmore comfortable talking about
what I what I'd been through.
(33:33):
And in talking and sharing, itnow started occurring to me that
you're not alone.
Speaker 3 (33:39):
Because I would say some things to some people and
they'd be like, I've been here,and I just didn't know how to
deal with it.
Jolynne Rydz (33:47):
Yeah, no one talks about it, right?
Like it doesn't come up at theSunday barbecue.
Speaker 3 (33:52):
No, it doesn't.
It doesn't, it doesn't come upanywhere.
Speaker 5 (33:55):
Because the thing is, if you're if you're if you're
in a leadership role or you'rein an aspiring leadership role,
I wouldn't even say leadership,you know.
I think everyone is a leader.
Jolynne Rydz (34:09):
100%.
Speaker 5 (34:10):
In one way or the other.
You know, even at home, youlead your mother, your a big
sister, your uh an auntie, yoursomething, and people look up to
you.
I know that a mother a amother's natural instinct is to
eat last.
Kids eat first, look after thekids before myself.
(34:36):
And those are all the traitsthat sort of suck self, and when
you do prolonged periods oftime without looking after
yourself, you generally tend toburn out.
Now I I had I had a bad, abroken marriage, divorced, got
(34:58):
married again.
So for me, I was dealing withwork, I was dealing with
personal problems.
My personal problems don't cometo work with me, well shouldn't
come to work with me.
But I can't ever tell you thatthey didn't show up at work.
So that's that's one thing thatI know that you know I
(35:20):
struggled with a lot where I Igo to work, I'm thinking my
ex-wife sent a stinker or didthis, or there's some drama with
the kids, and okay, I've got togo to work, just forget about
it and go to work.
I'm in a meeting, but it'sstill it's still, you know, and
(35:45):
I get signals about it throughthe entire period I'm at work,
but I can't talk about it.
So I mask no one no one shouldsee me like that at work.
Jolynne Rydz (35:59):
And what impact do you think that's had on the
people that you were leading?
They I imagine some of themwould have been quite intuitive
and empathic and sensedsomething.
What impact do you think thathad, that masking?
Speaker 5 (36:13):
Absolutely.
I call it the ripple effect.
So what what you don't say,people will see.
Now, over time, I've I've cometo understand that the most
powerful communication tool is,and no matter how much makeup
you've got on Jillian, no matterhow much done up your hair is,
(36:38):
your eyes will always give youaway.
Always.
There's there's something sopowerful about just looking in
the eyes.
You can see the joy, you cansee the sadness, you can see the
glint, you can see the dullnessor the soul.
It's always you can't hide it.
Now, I am I am certain that Ibrought the wrong vibe to work.
(37:03):
I didn't know, but when I lookback, I recall a lot of times
where the spirits at work sortof moved from one style to
another, where people'sresponses became more docile and
(37:28):
sort of quietened up ratherthan the usual Questros meetings
would be bubbly and filled withlaughter.
Speaker 3 (37:38):
And then I started realizing that I was asking a
lot of questions and nobody'sresponding.
I'm like, what's happening?
Why are you guys not sayinganything?
And I just get blank faces.
Speaker 5 (37:49):
Like, uh, but that was it.
That was it.
So what I was carrying, eventhough I didn't say it, my
people could interpret thetension that I brought to work.
Jolynne Rydz (38:02):
Yeah.
And because it's unsaid, Iimagine what tends to happen,
because I see this with clientsas well, is then then they make
all these assumptions andstories about what that could
mean.
Like, oh, is it my performance?
Like, what am I doing?
Have I done something wrong?
What's going on?
And are they sick?
Are they unwell?
What's going on?
Yeah.
So the mind loves to makemeaning when there's no meaning
(38:24):
there.
So I'm really curious.
Yeah, having had thatreflection, what do you think
you've learned over all of thisin terms of leadership and the
impact that you can have onpeople?
Speaker 5 (38:35):
I think that we need to be more in tune with our
humanity.
The model that the world hassort of taught leaders is that
you're a leader and you'rerequired to step up and be that
beacon for everyone all thetime.
(38:59):
And that's that's okay if we'rerobots.
But the last I remember is thatblood actually flows through my
veins, and there will be timeswhere I won't feel good, and
there will be times where I willbe tired, there'll be times
where I feel like giving up,there will be times.
(39:22):
So my frivolous approach wouldbe when those times come, brace
up, chin up, shoulders square,head on, face it.
But my new approach is whenthose times come, if I'm dealing
with my people or I'm dealingwith work-related matters, I
(39:46):
would I'd be honest.
I don't have to tell you thegory details.
But if I had to go back, Iprobably would tell my team,
look, I'm going through a hardtime.
You know, personal challenges,you know, things are happening.
So I need you guys to bepatient with me, hang in there.
I'm still here with you.
(40:07):
Sometimes I'm a bit grumpy orgrouchy.
It's not me.
So I love you guys.
Just give me.
And I would be honest like thatnow.
Jolynne Rydz (40:18):
And you know, I feel like that's so powerful,
and I appreciate you sharingthat because when I've seen
leaders do that, their teamleans in, right?
They come in and they supportthem, they empower them, their
performance lifts, and they justhandle stuff because they know
the person that they've alwayslooked up to just needs their
support now.
It's their turn to give back.
Like it's such a beautiful giftthat you can give someone that
(40:40):
honesty of where you're at.
Speaker 5 (40:42):
Yeah.
Absolutely.
So, I mean, that's that is whatI would advocate for any leader
to do at those points where youfeel vulnerable or you feel
like you're losing it.
There's nothing wrong in justshowing that you're human too.
And it actually bringscredibility to your leadership
(41:06):
because you're telling thepeople that you lead that you're
just like them.
And you're not setting that barthat is unreachable, where you
always have to be excellent, youalways have to be tick-top, you
always have to be on point, andalways have to be in control of
(41:29):
everything.
It is okay to lose controlsometimes.
And at those times, own it.
We're a team.
So let's rally together.
Support me.
And the same thing when you'relosing control, I'm here for
you.
So I I that was a big learningfor me.
Jolynne Rydz (41:47):
Yeah.
I mean, it builds so muchtrust, so much respect, so much
safety to be human and whole.
It's such a beautiful thing.
And so with all of theselearnings, like where where are
you taking things now?
Speaker 5 (42:01):
I'm sleeping every day, I'm not doing anything.
Oh, all right.
So I feel that I've gonethrough quite a bit in life that
has equipped me to help otherpeople.
Now, this space, especiallymen, we can be very mute when it
(42:21):
comes to what's going oninside.
We don't like to talk, we don'tlike to share.
Women are easy to talk, andthey talk to each other, and you
know, they get into a room andall chattering, and they know
everybody's history before theyleave that room.
(42:42):
Yeah, but men are a lot moreclosed, it's difficult for them
to share personal challenges.
So I'm just trying to create aplatform.
I have created it, but I'm I'mcreating more sensitization and
just making people more aware ofthe fact that we're human,
(43:04):
we've got blood running in ourveins, we feel pain.
The times that we're tired, thetimes where we feel like giving
up, the times where we feelwe've lost the game.
We need to be able to speak.
Even if we're not coming outopenly to say, this is what I'm
going through.
(43:24):
We need to be able toacknowledge it because there's a
difference betweenacknowledgement and just
throwing under the carpet andsay, you know what, I can do, I
can't deal with this right now.
Just shush, you know, leave it.
Whenever I've got time, I'lldeal with it.
And that's what we do a lot oftimes.
(43:45):
So if I'm acknowledging it,then it helps me understand
exactly what is happening andwhere I am.
So I recogni I recognize thatthis is happening.
It's a different thing fromsaying, I don't want to think
about it.
So recognition starts with itstarts with recognition where
(44:07):
you're able to just acknowledge,recognize, and be aware of what
is happening.
And if you're aware of what ishappening, then you're better
able to manage yourself.
Now, even if you're not talkingto anyone, you can you can
slowly manage yourself.
And I'm at that place where I'madvocating for organizations
(44:29):
to, yeah, we talk aboutpsychological safety, we talk
about wellness and everything.
But I'm not really sure that wetalk about it deep enough.
And I'm not really sure thatenough is being done about it.
I'm at that place where I'madvocating for people to be able
to show up as they are.
(44:50):
You know, a lot of times I justthink, even with getting a job
and job applications, if I wasgoing to get a job today,
darling, I'm going to dust up myresuming.
I mean, I will pimp it up sogood.
It will be the best of the bestof the best of the best.
(45:11):
And anything that is soundingslightly not good, I'm going to
pull out.
Speaker 3 (45:18):
But that's all a lie.
Jolynne Rydz (45:19):
It's only half of you, right?
When they do that.
Speaker 3 (45:22):
Yes.
So uh why can't I come up towork and say this is who I am?
I've learned from XYZ.
I went through this, thishappened to me.
You know, I had challenges hereand there and there.
But you know what?
Speaker 5 (45:39):
I'm better off for it, and I'm the man for the job
because I have lived experienceof this, this, and that.
And for me, that's that's whatit should be.
But we never come up showingthe bad parts.
It's always the good parts weput on our resume.
I think it takes away from theessence of who we are, and it
(45:59):
takes away from our humanity.
So that narrative of trying tolook good all the time is
something that I'm hoping thatover time we can begin to
realize that come on, we'rehuman.
Jolynne Rydz (46:14):
Oh, we'll we're gonna make a shift.
Don't worry, I'm on the samepath.
It's gonna it's happening, it'shappening in some places.
I hope it does.
Yeah, well, let's make ithappen.
That ripple impact, like yousaid, because it's you know, I
don't know.
I think there's because it's sonormalized to not do that.
I'm I believe there's a lot ofleaders and organizations out
(46:37):
there that don't understand orsee the true impact, positive
impact it can have when youallow people to show up as their
wholesales.
Like it does increaseproductivity, increases
connection, increasesengagement, increases
psychological safety, increaseswell-being, reduces stress.
It's all the things that we tryand throw these big initiatives
at and lots of money at.
Tosan Jemide (46:56):
Yeah, yeah.
Jolynne Rydz (46:58):
And yet, if you just allow people to be
themselves, a lot of this willnaturally resolve itself.
Speaker (47:04):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (47:04):
Yeah.
You know, once I once I'mcomfortable in my skin, then I
perform at peak.
unknown (47:11):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (47:12):
If I'm not, then my performance is actually going to
be half or less than half.
Speaker 5 (47:19):
It will dwindle, you know.
So I hope that it will be seenfrom this perspective over time,
and you know, people can wearless masks and be more
authentic, and real talent andskills can come out, and teams
can actually be like safety netsfor people.
Speaker (47:43):
Yeah.
Jolynne Rydz (47:45):
You're giving me tinkles.
Speaker (47:46):
I love it so much.
Jolynne Rydz (47:47):
Now, before I land into our Swift 7 questions, is
there anything else you want toshare with the audience today?
Speaker 5 (47:55):
Well, I think that one of the things that I wanted
to talk about was my rewireframework.
Jolynne Rydz (48:01):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (48:02):
Which I spoke about earlier on, but maybe just go a
bit deeper into it and justreminding people, first of all,
you know, I'd say that asleaders, uh, we try to be
perfect all the time.
Because that's what is expectedof us to be leaders.
(48:25):
We have to be perfect.
Well, if we're all models, wehave to be the ones raising the
bar, just showing people theway.
Or even at that, are you areyou me?
Jolynne Rydz (48:37):
No, not myself.
Speaker 5 (48:38):
No, okay.
So I am a Christian.
I I just want to use somethingfrom like in the Bible, Moses
was asked by God to dosomething, you know, and he was
asked to go and talk.
But Moses had a stutter.
He was asked to go and talk toPharaoh, the king, to let the
(49:03):
Israelites go.
But he had he had a starter andhe felt so incompetent.
And I'm just using this as ananalogy to show that even as
leaders, we don't have to beperfect.
We come with our humanity justas we are.
What gives us the right to beleaders is the fact that we're
(49:28):
failed.
So we can stir people in thedirection of success because we
understand what failure is aboutand they can see that we have
failed.
So that way, when we say it'sgo right, they they tend to
listen better because he's beenleft before.
I don't want to go there.
And I think that in that space,you know, we're more effective,
(49:54):
we need to be more present, weneed to learn how to pause this
thing about, yeah, let's dothings quickly, let's do things
speedily, we've got targets,we've got a lot of KPIs and
performance-driven, you know,organizations.
Yeah, it's all good, but let'slearn to pause more.
(50:16):
And in that pause, we're goingto be more reflective.
And it helps us to be moreproductive at the end of the
day, where we can go through uhour days doing a lot of
reflection and stopping andslowing down to actually see
where we are, where we're comingfrom and where we need to go
(50:39):
to.
If you don't pause all thatcan't happen.
It's not about strategy, youknow.
So I want to sort of get peopleto embrace more, you know, the
reflective approach to workrather than the speedy approach.
Think it's one of the thingsthat I'm driving as a human
(51:00):
being and practicing it everyday, and I see that it works.
Where sometimes I just thinkthat my pauses are too much, but
I look back and I feel like I'mnot I'm not ruffled.
Very little ruffles me becauseI stop.
And I don't care what'shappening.
I just stop.
And if if leaders can do that,just pause, stop in the chaos.
(51:24):
You know, the roofs, the roof'scoming off, yes, stop.
How are we gonna fix it?
You need to you need to stop tothink deeply and creatively.
If you join the bandwagon andjoin the chaos, then how do you
show true leadership?
(51:44):
And how do you actually bringout what nobody else has thought
about in order to direct andyou know choreograph you know
success.
So that's what I advocate.
Jolynne Rydz (51:57):
Yeah.
And it's so true.
You can't like in your whenyou're in the storm, you can't
see what's going on, but whenyou you step back and you can
see the whole system, it's somuch easier to diagnose what
needs to be done and a wayforward.
And it totally resonates withme that the way a leader earns
(52:18):
that respect to to have peoplefollow and come with them is
through those challenges.
It's literally designed in allof our stories, all of our
movies, right?
Have the hero moment where theycrash and they come through it.
Even in child's children'sstories, like there's so so
much, it's so encoded into ourhuman nature.
Speaker 3 (52:37):
Absolutely.
Jolynne Rydz (52:40):
So let's embrace it.
Amazing.
So I am so excited to hop intothis with seven, and then we'll
talk about how people canconnect and learn more about the
rewire code.
So, in your view, this isquestion one, what are three
words to describe an idealleader?
Speaker 5 (52:57):
An ideal leader, human.
An ideal leader must be human.
Ideal leader should be shouldbe able to come down to
everyone's level, not up there,be on the floor and let people
feel comfortable.
(53:18):
And an ideal leader should haveempathy.
Empathy, for me, empathy iskey, is a key element of
leadership.
I think those are the threethat I'd say humanity.
Well, humanity and empathy,there are a lot of overlaps, but
humanity, empathy, and thenalso being able to stoop at the
(53:43):
times where it's required to.
Yeah.
Jolynne Rydz (53:46):
Yeah, and be relatable.
Totally.
Yeah.
Question two.
Fill in the blank.
Speaker 3 (53:51):
Magnetic authenticity is magnetic authenticity is
fill in the blank.
Speaker 5 (53:58):
Would I say now that question is it about me to
someone else or just a generalquestion?
Jolynne Rydz (54:09):
General question.
Whatever comes to mind.
Speaker 5 (54:10):
Yeah, I wouldn't overanalyze it.
I'd say kindness.
Jolynne Rydz (54:15):
Yeah.
Oh my gosh.
Kindness is so attractive,right?
It just draws people in.
Yeah.
Yes.
Speaker 5 (54:21):
Kindness.
Jolynne Rydz (54:21):
I couldn't agree more.
Question three for you.
When you notice yourself tryingto fit in, what's the first
thing you do?
Speaker 5 (54:29):
Pull back.
Now I pull back.
Before I would try to fit in.
Now if I if I'm not fitting inand I'm trying to fit in, that
means no, I'm not, I'm not meantto be there.
So I just pull back.
Jolynne Rydz (54:43):
What a what an energy saver, right?
If you just pull back for me,and that's okay.
I love it.
All right.
Question four.
What song gets you reallypumped?
Speaker 3 (54:54):
Let's prove tonight.
Yeah, the science of life.
Jolynne Rydz (54:59):
Is that CDB?
Speaker 5 (55:01):
No, it's I think it's Earth, Wind, and Fire.
Jolynne Rydz (55:04):
Oh, yeah, yeah.
Okay.
Yep.
Yep.
Cool.
And all right, question five.
What's the most daring thingyou've ever done?
Speaker 5 (55:13):
Most daring thing I've ever done in my entire
life.
Okay.
I think it would be in my teensor in uni days, where we had
some really crazy times.
And this was all arounddrinking.
And I had a challenge to finisha bottle of.
Speaker (55:32):
I could see where this is going.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (55:36):
And I finished it and I stood.
Speaker (55:40):
Oh wow.
Speaker 5 (55:41):
Yeah.
Speaker (55:43):
That's pretty daring.
Did your mom know about thatstory?
Speaker 4 (55:47):
No.
I would have done this match.
Jolynne Rydz (55:50):
You know, masks off now.
All masks off.
All right.
So question six is Do you havea favorite quote or mantra that
you live by?
Speaker 5 (55:57):
Actually, I do.
And it's simply love oneanother.
Love one another.
Um, and just what I don't wantto be done to me, I don't want
to do to you, and just love oneanother.
I think I try to live by thatas much as possible.
(56:18):
Sometimes it's difficult whenyou meet complete assholes.
Speaker (56:25):
I do love you.
I think I love you.
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (56:28):
You know, but you know, I think I am I am slowly.
I mean, the other day I was inmy car.
I was trying to park, and I I Ithink I was blocking someone,
and but I was trying tomanoeuvre and it was a tight
space, you know, and I get thisguy who comes and knocks on my
(56:49):
window and like and he'sspitting fire.
Speaker 3 (56:54):
What's happening here?
Speaker 5 (56:55):
And all sorts of swear words and slur.
And you know what?
The old me would have joined inthe spitting fire.
But I just looked at him and Isaid, How are you today?
Speaker 3 (57:08):
And he just can ask me that question.
Jolynne Rydz (57:12):
I would have made him pause.
Speaker 3 (57:14):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (57:16):
And you know, he just kept on, and I just I just
looked forward.
I looked, I faced forward and Ididn't say anything to him.
And when he was tired, he justleft.
Now for me, that was a show oflove.
You know, because I'm just notgonna get in, I'm not gonna get
into this with you.
So I'm trying, I'm stilllearning, but I guess if if we
(57:38):
all show each other love, theworld would definitely be a
better place.
Jolynne Rydz (57:42):
Yeah, so much better in so many ways.
I love that.
And how just holding space forthat for people, you know.
We all have our moments.
Yeah.
Yep, and holding that space forpeople.
That's beautiful.
And I don't know what it isabout cars.
Like, I feel like this oncepeople are in a car, all beds
are off and we're suddenlyangry, like so angry.
(58:02):
It's all about yeah, it's allabout me.
Speaker 3 (58:07):
I I get that sense, and sometimes just in one split
second, people are just hootingand come on, patient.
It's just one second.
Jolynne Rydz (58:21):
Yeah.
Yeah.
I think it's a symptom of maybehow much we don't realize we're
on this hustle train, likeconstant race forward.
Speaker 3 (58:31):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Jolynne Rydz (58:32):
And it just boils over.
All right.
So our final question, questionseven, is what's one small
thing that brings you incrediblejoy?
Speaker 5 (58:40):
One small thing that brings me incredible joy is
baking.
Cooking.
I I love to bake, I love tocook.
There are many small things.
I love to snuggle with myfamily and just yeah.
I'm a home.
Jolynne Rydz (58:53):
Yeah, yeah.
And life is so beautiful whenyou can fill it with those small
things, right?
That really matter.
It's not always that big goal.
And now you've had some biggoals that you haven't mentioned
here today, but I'll leavepeople with that so they go and
look it up.
And I would love to share withthe audience where can they find
you if they want to know moreabout the Rewire Corridor and
what you do.
Speaker 5 (59:13):
So they can go to my website, which is
www.letsbakeit.com.au, and itit's that sort of has all my
programs there.
We've got different programsfor different teams, and our
signature program is called Bakeand Breathe, which is basically
(59:35):
a hands-on bacon.
It could be a half a day orfull day, and it's specifically
for teams who are looking tojust slow down bond through the
process of baking.
And I structured it in such away that it's not a difficult
(01:00:01):
challenge.
People who feel, oh, I can'tbake, you know, I'm I'm anxious,
I come in, you know, what do Iit's easy ass.
But you know, in that wholeprocess, you're entrenched into
reflectives all through.
You're asking yourself a lot ofquestions.
That program actually startswith a mirror moment.
Speaker 4 (01:00:23):
Cool.
Speaker 5 (01:00:24):
So they're baking, they're baking toolkits, which
is a nice purple box that hasaffirmation cards, it has your
reflective sheets, it has yourpre-mix for your recipe, baking
your cakes or whatever, it hasyour apron, and when you open
that box, you open it up into amirror.
(01:00:45):
Yeah.
And so I just kind of giveeveryone five minutes of quiet
reflection.
Look at your face.
Yes, you're beautiful, you'vegot the makeup on, you look
amazing.
But what else is there that youhaven't owned?
What's in the heart?
What's deep in there?
What are you carrying?
What did you bring with you?
(01:01:06):
What have you been holding?
What are you afraid to talkabout or to think about?
And it's a self-reflection,which we don't get to share
during the class, but it sort ofbegins to open people up to
what's gonna happen later in theworkshop.
So that workshop is reallyreflective.
(01:01:28):
It encourages teamwork, teamspirit, and a lot of team
support because through theprogram we're talking a lot
about what people carry.
So I come to work, but I'mburdened with kids at home and
(01:01:49):
grouchy, and everyone looks atme as you know, she's ugly,
grouchy, you know, but nobodyreally knows what I'm I'm coming
with.
So it's that whole supportingyour team, supporting your team
member, trying to find out wherethey are or understand where
(01:02:10):
they are, or just just holdspace for them without judging.
So that program is is like I'vedone a few of that program and
it's been amazing.
Feedback has been really great.
There are a few other programs,but go to the website and you
know you just see what what'savailable there.
Jolynne Rydz (01:02:30):
Yeah, I can imagine.
I'm like I'm sitting herelistening to you, I'm nerding
out because as a facilitator,I'm like, oh wow, that is such a
cool activity.
It's like a literal reflection.
And then it's built on all thismeaning that you've just shared
with us.
Speaker 4 (01:02:42):
So it tingles again.
Jolynne Rydz (01:02:44):
So thank you so much, Tosan, for joining us on
the podcast today and for justsharing from your heart and soul
about your journey, yourchallenges, and it's so
important and aligned with whatyou've said about advocating for
people to bring their wholesand enable those spaces for
people to bring their wholeselves to work because it's so
incredibly powerful.
(01:03:05):
I can't wait.
I want to go to this workshop.
Yeah, come on, read it on.
So I'll be there.
Let me know when the next oneis.
And thank you so much foreverything you've shared today.
Speaker 5 (01:03:16):
Thank you so much Jolynne.
It's been an absolute pleasure.
I've had a really nice timetalking to you.
Um, it's been, yeah, it's beensome time we've spent now, and
it feels like we've just spokenfor like 20 minutes.
Jolynne Rydz (01:03:29):
I know, I know.
So thanks to everyone.
If you've made it this far,congrats.
All right.
Tosan Jemide (01:03:36):
Thank you.
Thank you so much.
Jolynne Rydz (01:03:38):
Goodbye.
How good was that?
I don't know about you, but I'min the mood for baking some
cookies right now.
So, what I loved about thatconversation with Tosan was that
there was some real raw honestyabout what he thought
leadership was, and then thosedeep moments of realization of
(01:04:01):
what it could be and how itcould be different, and how
important it is to recognizewhen you've got those masks on
and decide to take them off whenit feels right for you.
And also that that journey cantake a long time.
One of the other things I lovedabout the conversation was that
(01:04:22):
point of at one point henoticed he was chasing
perfection over progress.
And how special is it when wecan switch that and look to
progress over perfection.
And I think the final thingthat I really appreciated about
Tosan's conversation was justthat deeply passionate message
(01:04:47):
around the need for leaders topause and refine their rhythm.
So thank you so much forlistening.
Always remember you were bornfor a reason and it's time to
thrive.
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