August 25, 2024 • 38 mins
Comments, questions? Let's connect!
Unlock the secrets of authentic leadership with us as we welcome Margot Thomas and Monique Longhurst, the brilliant minds behind Ikigai Leading. Ever wondered how to align your personal purpose and values with your professional role? Margot and Monique share transformative insights on cultivating Magnetic Authenticity and guiding leaders toward greater impact and resilience. Their extensive experience in leadership development and culture transformation will provide you with valuable tools to navigate complex environments with confidence and grace.
Margot and Monique emphasise the vital interplay between self-awareness and behavioral flexibility. Discover how authentic leadership is not just about knowing oneself deeply but also about embracing uncertainty and building genuine connections with others. Learn how to balance your natural preferences with the demands of various situations, and why staying true to oneself, even under external pressure, is paramount. Their personal journeys and pivotal moments shed light on the profound relationship between authenticity and personal fulfillment.
As we explore the intricacies of navigating complexity as authentic leaders, Margot and Monique offer thought-provoking reflections and practical advice. They encourage us to find comfort in uncertainty and prioritize progress over perfection. The engaging discussion will prompt you to reflect on how you show up as a leader and the impact of your authenticity on your overall potential.
Stay tuned for part two, where we will continue to unpack these essential themes and have a lot of fun along the way.
💖Love the podcast?💖
You can pay it forward by:
- Rating and Reviewing wherever you listen
- Sharing it with others!
Ready to level up your impact?
➡️Book a complimentary mini-strategy session and I'll help unpack one of your current challenges
➡️Join our Masterclass Waitlist and get practical tools to level up your impact
Let's connect!
https://www.linkedin.com/in/jolynne-rydz/
https://www.instagram.com/jolynnerydz/
https://www.facebook.com/brillianceinspired
I am a Confidence and Success Coach for leaders, Organisational Development Consultant and independent Leadership Circle Profile® Certified Practitioner. Information shared about this tool is courtesy of Leadership Circle®, all rights reserved. www.leadershipcircle.com
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Jolynne Rydz (00:01):
Ikigai.
Ikigai is a Japanese conceptand according to Wikipedia, it's
referring to something thatgives someone a sense of purpose
and a drive and a reason forliving.
Today I'm talking with MargotThomas and Monique Longhurst,
founders of Ikigai Leading, whoare on a mission to develop
(00:24):
purposeful, conscious andconnected leaders.
I invited them onto thispodcast because there is so much
to unpack and explore when itcomes to magnetic authenticity,
that quality of being who youtruly are in a way that lights
you up and lights those aroundyou up as well, and when you
(00:44):
combine that with the role ofbeing a leader, there's just so
much in that, whether that be aleader in business community or
life Now.
Margot and Monique foundedIkigai Leading to support
leaders from all walks of lifeto live and lead in stronger
alignment with their sense ofpurpose in the multiple roles
(01:06):
they hold.
Between them.
They have over 50 years ofexperience in leadership,
development, culturetransformation and various human
resources disciplines.
Their diverse backgrounds haveincluded key roles within or as
trusted advisors to private,public and non-profit
organizations across multipleindustries and countries.
(01:29):
Through this experience, theyknow that when people are
aligned to something theybelieve is important and
meaningful, they are moreengaged, resilient and have a
deeper and longer lasting impact.
Now, this conversation is a deepone, so I invite you to find a
space where you can reallyabsorb and maybe even listen to
(01:52):
this podcast twice, becausethere's so much in that.
And when I say deep, I actuallyhad to split it into two parts
because we went really, reallydeep in this conversation.
So make sure you stay tuned forthe two parts, but I split it
so you don't have to have thatawkward pause of oh do I stop it
now?
Or to keep listening, I need toget off my train, whatever it
(02:12):
might be.
So it's a nicely split into twoepisodes for you.
So part one is we're going toexplore together the
relationship between leadershipand magnetic authenticity and
unpacking the expectations thatdrive our behavior and that
difference between theexpectation of others and the
(02:32):
difference that we truly want tomake as individuals, and how
that can play out inunconsciously, in the impact
that we have on those around us,and also how authenticity is
different for each and every oneof us.
So let's dive in into today'sepisode.
Welcome into the podcast,Monique and Margot.
(02:56):
So happy to have you here.
Monique Longhurst (02:58):
Yay, so excited to be here too.
Yeah, absolutely Thanks, Jo.
It's beautiful pleasure to behere.
Jolynne Rydz (03:04):
You're welcome, so honoured to have you here and,
for the listeners, we obviouslyknow each other, but I'd love
for you to start by sharing alittle bit about your journey to
where you are today and howIkigai Leading was actually
created.
Margot Thomas (03:20):
Fantastic.
Whoa, that's a story I knowit's a good story.
Would you like to share mine?
Monique Longhurst (03:28):
the story.
Yeah, sure, sure, Maybe I canstart and then you can build on
that, Margot, I think so betweenus not that you would tell, but
between us we actually haveonly 50 years of experience in
the space.
So, yeah, we did start veryyoung, obviously, I think so.
The background for us is varied.
(03:48):
It's deep, so our practice isin the leadership, development
and culture transformation spaceand that's where our experience
has been.
As we said, between us we haveseveral years' experiences both
within and across organisations.
So Margot's background has beenmuch more within organisations
(04:09):
holding very senior roles,multinational, global.
My background has been muchmore in the consulting space.
I've worked at the privilege ofconsulting for oh, actually into
the decades now, which is scaryacross lots of different
sectors, lots of differentclients, but when we came
together, we've had theprivilege of working together in
(04:29):
different formats for a numberof years now, but when we came
together Ikigai leading itselfwas birthed actually in Japan
and over a glass of wine in aKorean barbecue place in the
middle of Kyoto, and I think forus it really sat with what
(04:50):
impact can we have together?
We had the privilege of workingacross the same space and
working in partnership, but toactually come together and
create something that's biggerthan the sum of, you know, our
individual parts was a reallyexciting opportunity.
We the relationship of IkigaiLeading and it is a relationship
(05:11):
had its journey.
So we dated for a while.
We really wanted to explorewhat could be co-created, and we
did that gently at the start of2020.
And then we committed and gotmarried, if we can put it that
way, July 2020.
(05:31):
So, if you think about what washappening across the world at
that time, it was a reallyinteresting time to start a
partnership and start a business, but it really wasn't starting.
It was kind of the nextevolution, I think, if we could
put it that way.
And we've been so blessed sincethen to have some amazing
opportunities with someabsolutely heartfelt, aligned
(05:51):
clients doing some reallyawesome, challenging, deeply
fulfilling work across lots ofdifferent sectors.
And we sit now four years in,almost to the date, actually, as
we have this conversation and Idon't know if you, if we went
back then and had you know thisis where you'd be.
(06:12):
I'm not sure that we couldimagine it, but nor would we be
surprised about where we are Iwould say, yeah, the deep
opportunity to have impact oneach other's lives as we create
impact on others' lives as well.
So it's a beautiful partnershipthat, as I said, I think the
impact that we can have togetherfar outweighs the impact that
(06:34):
we had individually.
And yeah, that's probably justwhere I'd start, Margot, feel
free to fill in the gaps or addyour point.
Margot Thomas (06:41):
Couldn't have said better that's awesome,
beautiful picture.
To fill in the gaps or add yourpoint of view.
Couldn't have said betterthat's awesome, beautiful
picture, I love it.
Jolynne Rydz (06:46):
And there's so much around co-creation there
and it forming in, I feel likesome of the best ideas Wasn't a
flight centre born on the backof a bus as well.
You know people travelling andjust being in this different
environment and seeing what theycan create together.
It's very, very inspiringAbsolutely.
And seeing what they can createtogether, it's very, very
(07:07):
inspiring Absolutely.
So you've talked a lot aboutyour wealth, amazing wealth of
experience that we've got to tapinto today, and because you get
all of that exposure todifferent leaders, different
organisations, differentindustries, I'd love to
understand your perspective onauthenticity and leadership and
what's happening between thosetwo.
Margot Thomas (07:26):
Yay, you know we jumped when you said do you want
to come along and, you know,have a chat about authenticity?
Because it's so needed and it'sa bit of a word, authenticity,
kind of a jargon word, but Ithink for us I will speak to the
(07:48):
work that we've been doing thataligns with her.
Perhaps I'll start him on, ofcourse can build in Particularly
women right and women inleadership, but women broadly,
we kind of are socialized to beparticularly, you know, there is
the right daughter, the rightwife, the right mom, the right
(08:12):
leader, and there's a lot ofexpectations that are put that
we kind of take on.
A lot of the work that we dowith men and women, but
especially with women, is justkind of unpacking how much of
what we're, you know, what we'retrying to to contribute.
It's really what we want tocontribute or how much.
(08:34):
That is just kind of the sheerexpectations that are put into
us.
And I think that's why italigns with what your invitation
, because it's really peelingback, creating the space.
And oh, joe, and I think we hadthis conversation probably 10
years ago, nine years ago aboutyou know, what are you longing
(08:54):
for?
That's, for me, is a hint aboutgoing back to you who you
really are and who you reallywant to be.
It starts with kind of otherthings when you forgot who you
are.
You got you know dress up andthe way people want you to dress
up.
You just pause.
There's longing that starts tothe real one and start to hang
on a minute.
This is me, so that space thatwe create to to listen to really
(09:19):
what is the longing and thenstart to unpack you.
You know what is and what I'mdoing and bringing joy and how
much is not.
You know, and then listen toyour heart, listen to your body.
Yeah, because it tells you is acontract.
What I'm doing, this, what isexpended, you know, is a
relationship with rediscovery.
(09:40):
That is a whole, is below theneck.
It's not just, it's not justlet's not.
Journal journal is good too,but it's not just a thinking
exercise, there's a whole bodyexercise you're coming back home
of figuring out you know who Ireally am and then, as the
journey starts to how do I kindof bring that to life, you know,
(10:04):
to be able to be more of who Ireally want to be.
I would say that not necessarilyleadership, but more
holistically it's being.
My relationship withauthenticity is to figuring out,
okay, who you know, what isreally that wants to be birthed,
what is really that I want tobe creating, that I'm not
(10:24):
attending to, and then thejourney to letting go of the
expectations that become likepart of identity sometimes.
You know what I mean.
I, you know, in my case,personally, I need to be really
successful.
I need to have a seat on thetable.
You know I really need to bemeaningful work and a lot of
(10:47):
work, and then I'm worthy, andnot that those things are not
important, but it's really whywe are doing it right.
So I think that I rambled alittle bit.
That's making sense.
Jolynne Rydz (11:01):
It's making a lot of sense.
I love the that how you keptcoming back to that creating of
space, because there's so manylayers of conditioning that's
telling us what we should do andit's almost like it's it's
really hard to connect for somepeople, especially myself I find
it hard to connect to.
What is it why I want to do?
And that question what am Ilong, what are you longing for?
I have always and stillstruggle to sit with sometimes
(11:23):
of what is it I actually amlonging for?
Not what these 10 otherdifferent people have told me or
they're wanting, and I know Ican do that, but what is it that
I, the individual, wants?
So there's a lot of opportunity, I think, in that space to
almost help people to sit withwho they are.
Monique Longhurst (11:44):
And I so agree with you there, jo.
And authenticity is a really,it's actually a core value for
me personally, and it has beenfor a long time, and when I sit
with that, it's like one ofthose words that comes from oh
yeah, authenticity is reallyimportant.
But as you sit and sit withwhat's underneath that, what's
driving that, what does it looklike and feel like in action, I
(12:05):
come to my other core value,which is courage.
So there's sometimes thatauthenticity feels very
comfortable for me to go.
Yep, authenticity is key, butfor me to lean in and actually
live that, that's where actually, that's hard work.
Sometimes to really sit and ownwhat is authentically us takes
(12:25):
more courage than living up tothe expectations of others, so
that it's almost like there aretwo sides of you know really
both, and to be able to sit inthat space.
And I think also the courageMargot you mentioned letting go,
I think the courage to evolveas well.
So what has been you in thepast?
(12:46):
There's probably still anessence of that, but the
expression of it might shift aswe shift in roles, as we shift
in life cycles, as we shift inlearning more about ourselves
and what brings us joy, whatbrings us that sense of meaning
and purpose.
(13:07):
And you know, the courage to nolonger be something that we
have been in the past can bereally hard, that letting go can
be really hard, but whenthere's that longing for more,
that shedding of space and Ithink that's something that, as
women, we can witness with andfor each other as well like that
(13:29):
, it's such a, such a privilegeto be in that space with others
and to be able to witness thatjourney and support that journey
.
And you know, even just to check, what am I holding people to?
Because that's that's mycomfort zone, that's how I know
you actually, and how do I letyou continue to evolve.
Um, yeah, as I was reflectingas we came to this conversation,
(13:52):
I was just really thinkingabout that authenticity.
For me it feels such a familiarfriend, but sometimes I don't
hold it deep enough.
It's like, let me just go thatlittle bit deeper into what does
that actually?
What's it actually asking me tobe, if I'm really being
authentic right now?
Margot Thomas (14:09):
you can't be authentic.
I would say, if you're not, ormaybe not, that you can't.
Maybe.
Perhaps a pre-requirement ofauthenticity it is the process
of being in relationship withself yeah so it's almost like
what is my relationship withmyself in terms of how much do I
(14:31):
know me?
Yeah, and, and and how much.
And I love what you said, mon,about how much that is helpful
as well in community, right,because how many times we are
with some people that we reallyknow and then we see them from
(14:52):
that freeze, frozen perspectiveof this is Joe, and I look at
Joe and I hear Joe, or I hearMon from that lens and I freeze
you.
I'm not hearing you with the,the, as you you were saying
before, the unfolding joe.
So what is my quality of beingin relationship with and not the
(15:16):
other that allows that?
You know the differentdimension of you.
To come to Ford, yeah, becauseI'm holding you as you are, the
Joe of 10 years ago.
You know what I mean.
So where is my curiosity andthe quality of my?
You know it comes basically thequality of listening.
(15:36):
Yeah, that allows you to unfoldand evolve as we are in
relationship, right, sometimesthat might be easier with people
that we just met, but how canwe do that?
Support authenticity in ourdear ones by creating, you know,
that container and that spaceof being with one another.
(15:59):
That is personal.
I'm not going to hold you towhat you're passing, if that
makes sense.
Jolynne Rydz (16:08):
It's almost like fueling that courage you were
speaking of Mon that if youactively do that to those around
you that love you, it almostaddresses one of those root
fears of will I still be lovedor will I belong if I go?
Monique Longhurst (16:22):
through this transformation.
Jolynne Rydz (16:24):
So I love that proactive awareness about the
impact you're having on othersand their unfolding and I think
it translates beyond.
Monique Longhurst (16:33):
You know we've spoken about those we love
, and love is a big word.
If I come to the leadershiprole as well, you know there's
space for love in that space aswell.
So I don't want to be either orhere, um, but I think your
question around what's evolvingfrom a leadership lens and the
relationship between leadershipand authenticity, and I think
it's almost paradoxical thatthere is a level of knowing but
(16:53):
there's also a level of notknowing.
That's needed in our leaders atthe moment and an awareness of
what we don't yet know.
You know, I know the complexitythat leaders are leaning into,
regardless of the industry,regardless of the level of
leadership we're talking here.
You know, take leading yourfamily.
The complexity we're dealingwith at the moment is, you know,
(17:16):
exponentially challenging.
If we talk about leading teamswithin organisations, if we talk
about, you know, the context ofleading within community
organisations, the complexitywe're facing as leaders, we
can't actually know.
So that invite to knowourselves is really critical,
grounding us in a space of notknowing around us as well.
(17:37):
And I think that authenticitypiece about knowing, not knowing
, that's too strong a word, butthe authenticity piece about
what we're leaning into asleaders, from a basis of
self-awareness, from that basisof what do I know about myself
in this context at the moment,but also there's an awful lot
that we can't know and notholding ourselves too much to
(18:01):
that as well.
As I said, it's paradoxical, butI think there's something for
us in that space around theauthentic expression and we
talked, you know, before we evenstarted, about authentically
being messy with each other, aswe're having a three-way
conversation.
I think that's what's, that'swhat's really needed from
leaders, as well as how we showup, working through without
(18:24):
knowing, looking to progress,not to perfect or to land on a
particular outcome.
I think that's been shifting,for when we think about
authenticity in leadership, it'snot what do I do behind closed
doors, and now I know myself andnow I can come out and be
myself.
Actually, it's how do we dothat?
Live as we're working throughthe challenges, the
(18:46):
opportunities in front of us.
Margot Thomas (18:47):
And I think to build on that and actually
literally, I think last week wewere holding a couple of
workshops with different kind ofindustries and leaders in
different contexts, and Iremember saying that, but do
that in an authentic way.
We were talking, I think,that's, if you allow us, in
(19:07):
terms of you invited theleadership, so we'll bring the
leadership development part ofit right, which is, oh my God,
where do we go?
I'll be, you know, bring itsmall.
But there's something about inthe journey of developing.
It is a process of expanding,right.
(19:28):
So expanding our mindsets andtherefore our behavior patterns,
how we show up, is another wayof saying we kind of learn what
is natural for us.
You know, again, self-awareness, we kind of understand okay,
I'm good at this, I'm crap inthat, oh, pardon my French, I'm
(19:53):
not good at doing that.
Oh, this has come natural, thisis I avoid.
This is all process ofunderstanding preferences, that
some are natural, but as aleader, we're all being in a
situation that we need to workout of preference, right.
So the journey of developmentis it's almost like
understanding, okay, what is myinternal operating system looks
like, yeah, and understandingthe internal operating systems.
(20:16):
There's some strengths, there'ssome things that are innate and
natural, but you know that youreally have a, an impact.
I need to expand that and workin ways that are not necessary
and natural for me.
And an example, super simple, islike the extrovert, introvert,
kind of, as an introvert, mybest thinking it's done first
(20:43):
within.
For an extrovert, I love tothink out loud and if I use this
simple example, it's not alwaysas a leader that we can.
If we are an introvert, we canafford to first think within.
We might have to learn how towork out of preference and think
on the moment out loud withothers.
(21:04):
And vice versa.
For the extrovert right, zip itup, let others think.
Reflection time, don't, youknow, drop talking or think out
loud.
For you know, I need to learnhow to peel back.
And when we are holding leadersindividually, collectively, in
this journey of what we callbehavioral flexibility, yeah, so
(21:28):
when I start behaving in a waythat is, it's what is what
needed, not what is I feelcomfortable in doing, we always
say do it authentically.
Yeah, so my way of being anextrovert, it's not going to be
your way of being an extrovertin in behavior wise, you know,
displaying an extrovert, it'snot going to be your way of
being an extrovert in, inbehavior, wise, you know,
displaying an extrovert behavior, or there's so many um other
(21:51):
ways of looking at it.
You know what is it out ofpreference?
Some of us, for example, underpressure and should take over,
like lean in.
That's an automated responseand a few of us tend to, you
know, withdraw and look fromafar to process.
So there might be moments thatif I am the one leaning in, I
(22:14):
need to kind of in that momentthat's not what is needed.
Somebody else might need tolean in.
If it's always me, I'm robbingsomeone's chance to learn.
So this is again, again, it'sme exercising flexible behavior,
flexibility to let someone dosomething that I kind of
attended, such as an example.
(22:34):
And how can you, how can I stepback in a way that is me, it's
authentic.
Or leaning in a way that is meis authentic, it's not copying
somebody else.
Jolynne Rydz (22:47):
If that makes sense, that makes sense and I'm
curious to know what happenswhen someone doesn't do that
work on that internal operatingsystem, like what shows up in
organizations there's manythings that can show up and
because, you know, underpinningall that is our personality and
our personality preferences.
Monique Longhurst (23:08):
So if we are not aware, we will automatically
.
You know we still have animpact, if we're conscious of it
or not.
So I think that's you know.
If I can summarise what happensis we have an unconscious
impact and sometimes that servesTo be honest.
It has and it can.
But when we're dealing withcomplexity, when we're dealing
(23:31):
with ever-changing contexts,when we are dealing with
multiple stakeholders, that'sgoing to have a really limited
impact these days in terms of,you know, the sustainability of
that.
So in the moment, what canhappen is we will react rather
than respond.
We'll have an automatedreaction.
As I said, sometimes that canserve and often those automated
(23:52):
reactions have served us withlots of compassion for our
journey to where we are asleaders.
A lot of the stepping in asMargot suggested that example
that's probably served a lot ofpeople to get to where they've
got to in their journeyindividually, you know, on their
career pathway.
For others who step out, again,that's probably served them to
(24:13):
stay safe, to be able to read aroom, to step in when, but it's
not always the right responsefor the right time.
So when we don't do the work,we're only relying on those.
We've actually only got a smallrange of behaviors to band with
to bring.
Yeah, and I was going to say tochoose, but we're not even
choosing.
They're choosing us right.
(24:35):
When we do that work, it's notabout dismissing those because,
as Margot said, they can be oursuperpowers.
Actually, they can be beyondstrengths and be our superpowers
.
They can be what people cancount on us for, and it's often
the things we might even dismissin ourselves because it comes
so naturally.
We don't see that as a strength.
But when we do the work, whenwe build that awareness, when we
challenge ourselves to justpause for a moment and think
(24:59):
well, what is, how do I be ofservice in this moment?
What is needed from me for theimpact that I want to have as a
leader?
Sometimes that might be what wewould automatically do, which
is fabulous.
So it's about bringing thatwith consciousness.
Sometimes it's actually askingus to do something different.
It's that adage that what got ushere is not going to get us
(25:19):
there.
So if we're on our leadershipdevelopment journey, yes, that
has served me in the past, butit may not be what's needed for
me for now.
So, if I'm working with abroader team and I can no longer
physically hold theresponsibility of the doing
anymore, my role is to enable myteam to do the doing and to
serve our clients, and my rolenow is to look up and to look
(25:43):
out to make sure I can work withmy team and their barriers,
make sure that we can see theopportunities that are in front
of us.
There's a real letting go ifall my journey, or a lot of my
journey and a lot of my selfworth, has come from getting
stuff done.
So I think to come back to yourquestion is what happens is we
don't grow, we don't necessarilyexpand and sometimes we stay
(26:04):
still, but even more so the riskthese days is that things are
moving so quickly that actually,without doing the work, we
start to go backwards.
Our impact is minimized.
Um, it's not conscious.
It's driven from a place offear or protection as opposed to
of service or of impact that wewant to consciously have.
Margot Thomas (26:25):
So but it can show up very differently
depending on our personality andyou can think that, oh, you
know how many times we heardthis is me, you get it, it's me,
I'll be authentic, yeah, that'syou know.
Authentic not equals, uh, it'sjust you being sticking to your
(26:46):
old ways.
Yeah.
So I guess, oh, you know, evenin the 70s, psychologists in the
70s they profile you, you knowpsychological profiling.
You name it and that's it, youwill be it.
Yeah, so you either this orthat, and thank God, you know.
And since you knowneuroplasticity, neuroscience,
(27:07):
we know we can continue todevelop.
So we are not our personalities,right?
We absolutely are personalities, as I mentioned, of who we are,
or it's something that we havebut not who we are.
So that notion about sorry,this is me, I'm an extrovert,
(27:28):
that's it.
Or I am, I don't know, a taskoriented person, or I am a
thinker, and that's it.
This is part of who you are andnot necessary.
You know, to be super authentic, I have to be in that place.
That's kind of a a mis mismisinterpretation for me of what
(27:49):
really being authentic.
You know, the leadershipdeveloped component of being
authentic, it's being perhapsmessy and vulnerable as you're
trying to expand, doing thingsin ways that are not natural for
you or easy for you.
This is for me, it's more, youknow, impactful authenticity
(28:12):
than excuse myself on thatauthenticity.
Jolynne Rydz (28:17):
So both of you are incredibly passionate about
this, and I'd love to know ifthere was a moment where this
hit home for you the power ofauthenticity and leadership.
Monique Longhurst (28:29):
What's the question?
Margot Thomas (28:29):
question oh, that is a fabulous question see this
is, this is funny, right,because this, there's a layer of
personality, like from on, Iwon't speak to her, she will,
but in my sense, so you know,the authenticity, even a value,
will mean different things todifferent people.
(28:51):
Same value, right?
So authenticity for me as a nowthat I understand a little bit
more, my personality has astrong relationship with
integrity.
But what that's, that's for me,so the, the authenticity piece
for me, there is that sense thatI need to show up without the
(29:13):
internal incongruence, right.
So that has to be, and always,you know, the journey has been,
and standing up and doing whatis right, authentically right,
sort of the personality, what isright, authentically right sort
of the personality.
So I'm just trying to reflecton your question in a very
(29:34):
clumsy, authentic, clumsy waybecause I cannot not remember
not being authentic, yeah, sortof because of that attachment to
the integrity and it was soimportant in that sense.
Perhaps, if we wind back to thebeginning of a conversation and
(30:02):
the socialised, the normalisedkind of that we've all been
through, I think when I startreal, realizing the hang on a
minute, I'm actually not myresults, I am not my job.
There was a beginning of the,perhaps the, the, the, the
(30:23):
curiosity and the desire to meetwhat.
What am I then if I'm not that?
Yeah, so I had a year gap.
Stop working for you, which isterrifying for someone with my
script, right, I'm work and I'm,you know, I work a lot because,
you know, came from a bluecolor working family that you
(30:46):
know kept reinforcing.
Oh, you're so dedicated, youknow, as single from from early
years and also a form.
Okay, love equals.
Keep doing good.
Yeah, hard work so to to removemy, my identity from that
beautiful picture.
Um, then you know that wascreated in those early years.
(31:09):
It's kind of a.
I think for me was thebeginning of the other dimension
of authenticity.
Okay, so if I'm not my job ormy roles and my results, who am?
I fuck?
It's scary to you.
Know what is left if I removeall of that?
And and I had a goal, I had,fortunately the inner and the
(31:31):
outer resources to have a yeargap and what I found was awesome
.
Jolynne Rydz (31:37):
And I want to thank you for sharing that
because I think it's soimportant, particularly right
now when there's so much changegoing on in organizations and
restructures and people losingthat identity when they lose a
role in an organisation, so it'sso powerful to share.
You know, who am I without thatand being?
Monique Longhurst (31:55):
able to find that Mon, how about you?
It's such a beautifulopportunity to reflect on the
question, thank you.
And as you're sharing yourstory, margot, there is
something uniquely personalabout that journey and you're
right, there's, as I reflect on,where I first went.
So as soon as you went to thatquestion I can't even recall the
(32:16):
exact question now, so I'vemade it my own um, there's a I
have a relationship withauthenticity and uniqueness, and
which is really fascinating.
So you talked aboutauthenticity, integrity, and for
me it's authenticity anduniqueness, and I can take that
right back.
I'm one of four children.
You know how do you, what'suniquely mine to own in the
(32:37):
space of family and a biggerfamily around us as well?
Never felt the pressure toconform, necessarily, but I
think just you know I can startto see what's uniquely me in
this space.
How do I uniquely expressmyself amongst many, any values,
and, as I said before, this isa core value for me.
(32:59):
I can go back to points in timeon my career where that value
was challenged.
I have a very vivid memory,early in my twenties, of a very
senior leader telling me um, Ican even hear the words now, so
you can sell those moments.
You know, don't think you'respecial.
(33:19):
There's nothing special aboutyou.
You've got to do your time,you've got to work your way up.
And there was just something inme straight away that went oh
no, you don't get to tell methat actually.
And something in me straightaway that went oh no, you don't
get to tell me that actually.
And something in me came out.
You know, if I look back nowI'm going, what was I?
I wasn't thinking, but thewords out of my mouth was you
(33:40):
don't get to tell me that, youdon't decide if.
I am special or not, I do.
I, you know it was not aboutwanting to skip the line or have
any special treatment, but itwas definitely a putting me in
my place, which was not theplace I wanted to be in.
So those just and you know, acouple of times in my career I
can have versions of that, andso for me that that piece
(34:02):
between authenticity and beingtold who I am it's like that's
for me to discover and for me todetermine my personality is
actually I do a lot of I'm notgoing to say fitting in, but I
do a lot of flexing for theenvironment around me.
It's actually one of mysuperpowers to be able to link
into spaces, so it's kind ofthis real contrast.
(34:23):
But when that goes too far orthat's being taken for granted
or determined for me, that'swhere that has certainly come
around and I think that's why mypassion is always and in the
work that we do, particularly inthe individual leader space, in
our coaching, even in our groupwork, but where we get to have
deep connections with ourindividuals amongst the group,
(34:46):
is that unleashing of ourpotential right, and people who
see us have a perspective onthat.
But it's just a perspective.
We've got our own perspectiveon our own innate potential as
well.
So that desire to really linkauthenticity to potential and
unleashing that, the more weknow about ourselves, the more
that we want to have an impact.
(35:09):
What's that?
That's uniquely our potentialto bring to the world.
So I think that's yeah, I thinkthat's my relationship and some
of the early things that reallysprung for me the desire to
bring authenticity as a key partof our work as well.
(35:38):
I love that we've gotuniqueness and integrity so so,
so powerful, wow.
So I hope you found thatincredibly fascinating and I
wanted to pull out three keypoints that I was hearing
throughout that.
The first one is the questionto reflect on from Margot, which
is what are you longing fordeep down?
What is it that you are longingfor that you're wanting to make
an impact on?
The second thing I'd like todraw your attention to is that
(36:01):
something Monique shared, whichwas authenticity needs more
courage than living up to theexpectation of others, and I
wonder, I'm curious, if that'swhy many of us get stuck,
because it's easier almost tolive up to the expectation of
others.
It's a fail safe, it's ablanket.
It's certainly something I'veexperienced myself that if I can
(36:24):
do what I'm doing becauseothers expected of me, I'm let
off the hook if it doesn't gowell.
So it takes that courage toevolve and it requires people to
have curiosity and openness toallow us and the others around
us to step into their ownauthenticity.
So don't see someone as oneversion of themselves, because
(36:46):
that in itself is going to limitthem and, in return, it's going
to limit you.
So the third thing I wanted tobring your attention to is that
complexity that we're allexperiencing right now in our
environments and this need, asleaders and as people, to not
(37:07):
know and to invite ourselvesinto that space of grounding
where, when we know who we are,it's so much easier to sit in
that space of not knowing what'sgoing to happen in the world
around us, being able to show upand be messy and look for
progress over perfection.
(37:27):
So if you're wondering, how areyou showing up?
Are you showing up the way thatyou want to?
Is that having the impact thatyou want to have?
If you're wondering, how do youunleash your own authenticity
and potential, then stay tunedto part two of this interview
because, as I said, we're goingto go deep and it's a lot of fun
(37:50):
.
So stay tuned, keep your eyeout and remember you were born
for a reason it's time to thrive.
Ikigai.
Ikigai is a Japanese conceptand according to Wikipedia, it's
referring to something thatgives someone a sense of purpose
and a drive and a reason forliving.
Today I'm talking with MargotThomas and Monique Longhurst,
founders of Ikigai Leading, whoare on a mission to develop
(00:24):
purposeful, conscious andconnected leaders.
I invited them onto thispodcast because there is so much
to unpack and explore when itcomes to magnetic authenticity,
that quality of being who youtruly are in a way that lights
you up and lights those aroundyou up as well, and when you
(00:44):
combine that with the role ofbeing a leader, there's just so
much in that, whether that be aleader in business community or
life Now.
Margot and Monique foundedIkigai Leading to support
leaders from all walks of lifeto live and lead in stronger
alignment with their sense ofpurpose in the multiple roles
(01:06):
they hold.
Between them.
They have over 50 years ofexperience in leadership,
development, culturetransformation and various human
resources disciplines.
Their diverse backgrounds haveincluded key roles within or as
trusted advisors to private,public and non-profit
organizations across multipleindustries and countries.
(01:29):
Through this experience, theyknow that when people are
aligned to something theybelieve is important and
meaningful, they are moreengaged, resilient and have a
deeper and longer lasting impact.
Now, this conversation is a deepone, so I invite you to find a
space where you can reallyabsorb and maybe even listen to
(01:52):
this podcast twice, becausethere's so much in that.
And when I say deep, I actuallyhad to split it into two parts
because we went really, reallydeep in this conversation.
So make sure you stay tuned forthe two parts, but I split it
so you don't have to have thatawkward pause of oh do I stop it
now?
Or to keep listening, I need toget off my train, whatever it
(02:12):
might be.
So it's a nicely split into twoepisodes for you.
So part one is we're going toexplore together the
relationship between leadershipand magnetic authenticity and
unpacking the expectations thatdrive our behavior and that
difference between theexpectation of others and the
(02:32):
difference that we truly want tomake as individuals, and how
that can play out inunconsciously, in the impact
that we have on those around us,and also how authenticity is
different for each and every oneof us.
So let's dive in into today'sepisode.
Welcome into the podcast,Monique and Margot.
(02:56):
So happy to have you here.
Monique Longhurst (02:58):
Yay, so excited to be here too.
Yeah, absolutely Thanks, Jo.
It's beautiful pleasure to behere.
Jolynne Rydz (03:04):
You're welcome, so honoured to have you here and,
for the listeners, we obviouslyknow each other, but I'd love
for you to start by sharing alittle bit about your journey to
where you are today and howIkigai Leading was actually
created.
Margot Thomas (03:20):
Fantastic.
Whoa, that's a story I knowit's a good story.
Would you like to share mine?
Monique Longhurst (03:28):
the story.
Yeah, sure, sure, Maybe I canstart and then you can build on
that, Margot, I think so betweenus not that you would tell, but
between us we actually haveonly 50 years of experience in
the space.
So, yeah, we did start veryyoung, obviously, I think so.
The background for us is varied.
(03:48):
It's deep, so our practice isin the leadership, development
and culture transformation spaceand that's where our experience
has been.
As we said, between us we haveseveral years' experiences both
within and across organisations.
So Margot's background has beenmuch more within organisations
(04:09):
holding very senior roles,multinational, global.
My background has been muchmore in the consulting space.
I've worked at the privilege ofconsulting for oh, actually into
the decades now, which is scaryacross lots of different
sectors, lots of differentclients, but when we came
together, we've had theprivilege of working together in
(04:29):
different formats for a numberof years now, but when we came
together Ikigai leading itselfwas birthed actually in Japan
and over a glass of wine in aKorean barbecue place in the
middle of Kyoto, and I think forus it really sat with what
(04:50):
impact can we have together?
We had the privilege of workingacross the same space and
working in partnership, but toactually come together and
create something that's biggerthan the sum of, you know, our
individual parts was a reallyexciting opportunity.
We the relationship of IkigaiLeading and it is a relationship
(05:11):
had its journey.
So we dated for a while.
We really wanted to explorewhat could be co-created, and we
did that gently at the start of2020.
And then we committed and gotmarried, if we can put it that
way, July 2020.
(05:31):
So, if you think about what washappening across the world at
that time, it was a reallyinteresting time to start a
partnership and start a business, but it really wasn't starting.
It was kind of the nextevolution, I think, if we could
put it that way.
And we've been so blessed sincethen to have some amazing
opportunities with someabsolutely heartfelt, aligned
(05:51):
clients doing some reallyawesome, challenging, deeply
fulfilling work across lots ofdifferent sectors.
And we sit now four years in,almost to the date, actually, as
we have this conversation and Idon't know if you, if we went
back then and had you know thisis where you'd be.
(06:12):
I'm not sure that we couldimagine it, but nor would we be
surprised about where we are Iwould say, yeah, the deep
opportunity to have impact oneach other's lives as we create
impact on others' lives as well.
So it's a beautiful partnershipthat, as I said, I think the
impact that we can have togetherfar outweighs the impact that
(06:34):
we had individually.
And yeah, that's probably justwhere I'd start, Margot, feel
free to fill in the gaps or addyour point.
Margot Thomas (06:41):
Couldn't have said better that's awesome,
beautiful picture.
To fill in the gaps or add yourpoint of view.
Couldn't have said betterthat's awesome, beautiful
picture, I love it.
Jolynne Rydz (06:46):
And there's so much around co-creation there
and it forming in, I feel likesome of the best ideas Wasn't a
flight centre born on the backof a bus as well.
You know people travelling andjust being in this different
environment and seeing what theycan create together.
It's very, very inspiringAbsolutely.
And seeing what they can createtogether, it's very, very
(07:07):
inspiring Absolutely.
So you've talked a lot aboutyour wealth, amazing wealth of
experience that we've got to tapinto today, and because you get
all of that exposure todifferent leaders, different
organisations, differentindustries, I'd love to
understand your perspective onauthenticity and leadership and
what's happening between thosetwo.
Margot Thomas (07:26):
Yay, you know we jumped when you said do you want
to come along and, you know,have a chat about authenticity?
Because it's so needed and it'sa bit of a word, authenticity,
kind of a jargon word, but Ithink for us I will speak to the
(07:48):
work that we've been doing thataligns with her.
Perhaps I'll start him on, ofcourse can build in Particularly
women right and women inleadership, but women broadly,
we kind of are socialized to beparticularly, you know, there is
the right daughter, the rightwife, the right mom, the right
(08:12):
leader, and there's a lot ofexpectations that are put that
we kind of take on.
A lot of the work that we dowith men and women, but
especially with women, is justkind of unpacking how much of
what we're, you know, what we'retrying to to contribute.
It's really what we want tocontribute or how much.
(08:34):
That is just kind of the sheerexpectations that are put into
us.
And I think that's why italigns with what your invitation
, because it's really peelingback, creating the space.
And oh, joe, and I think we hadthis conversation probably 10
years ago, nine years ago aboutyou know, what are you longing
(08:54):
for?
That's, for me, is a hint aboutgoing back to you who you
really are and who you reallywant to be.
It starts with kind of otherthings when you forgot who you
are.
You got you know dress up andthe way people want you to dress
up.
You just pause.
There's longing that starts tothe real one and start to hang
on a minute.
This is me, so that space thatwe create to to listen to really
(09:19):
what is the longing and thenstart to unpack you.
You know what is and what I'mdoing and bringing joy and how
much is not.
You know, and then listen toyour heart, listen to your body.
Yeah, because it tells you is acontract.
What I'm doing, this, what isexpended, you know, is a
relationship with rediscovery.
(09:40):
That is a whole, is below theneck.
It's not just, it's not justlet's not.
Journal journal is good too,but it's not just a thinking
exercise, there's a whole bodyexercise you're coming back home
of figuring out you know who Ireally am and then, as the
journey starts to how do I kindof bring that to life, you know,
(10:04):
to be able to be more of who Ireally want to be.
I would say that not necessarilyleadership, but more
holistically it's being.
My relationship withauthenticity is to figuring out,
okay, who you know, what isreally that wants to be birthed,
what is really that I want tobe creating, that I'm not
(10:24):
attending to, and then thejourney to letting go of the
expectations that become likepart of identity sometimes.
You know what I mean.
I, you know, in my case,personally, I need to be really
successful.
I need to have a seat on thetable.
You know I really need to bemeaningful work and a lot of
(10:47):
work, and then I'm worthy, andnot that those things are not
important, but it's really whywe are doing it right.
So I think that I rambled alittle bit.
That's making sense.
Jolynne Rydz (11:01):
It's making a lot of sense.
I love the that how you keptcoming back to that creating of
space, because there's so manylayers of conditioning that's
telling us what we should do andit's almost like it's it's
really hard to connect for somepeople, especially myself I find
it hard to connect to.
What is it why I want to do?
And that question what am Ilong, what are you longing for?
I have always and stillstruggle to sit with sometimes
(11:23):
of what is it I actually amlonging for?
Not what these 10 otherdifferent people have told me or
they're wanting, and I know Ican do that, but what is it that
I, the individual, wants?
So there's a lot of opportunity, I think, in that space to
almost help people to sit withwho they are.
Monique Longhurst (11:44):
And I so agree with you there, jo.
And authenticity is a really,it's actually a core value for
me personally, and it has beenfor a long time, and when I sit
with that, it's like one ofthose words that comes from oh
yeah, authenticity is reallyimportant.
But as you sit and sit withwhat's underneath that, what's
driving that, what does it looklike and feel like in action, I
(12:05):
come to my other core value,which is courage.
So there's sometimes thatauthenticity feels very
comfortable for me to go.
Yep, authenticity is key, butfor me to lean in and actually
live that, that's where actually, that's hard work.
Sometimes to really sit and ownwhat is authentically us takes
(12:25):
more courage than living up tothe expectations of others, so
that it's almost like there aretwo sides of you know really
both, and to be able to sit inthat space.
And I think also the courageMargot you mentioned letting go,
I think the courage to evolveas well.
So what has been you in thepast?
(12:46):
There's probably still anessence of that, but the
expression of it might shift aswe shift in roles, as we shift
in life cycles, as we shift inlearning more about ourselves
and what brings us joy, whatbrings us that sense of meaning
and purpose.
(13:07):
And you know, the courage to nolonger be something that we
have been in the past can bereally hard, that letting go can
be really hard, but whenthere's that longing for more,
that shedding of space and Ithink that's something that, as
women, we can witness with andfor each other as well like that
(13:29):
, it's such a, such a privilegeto be in that space with others
and to be able to witness thatjourney and support that journey
.
And you know, even just to check, what am I holding people to?
Because that's that's mycomfort zone, that's how I know
you actually, and how do I letyou continue to evolve.
Um, yeah, as I was reflectingas we came to this conversation,
(13:52):
I was just really thinkingabout that authenticity.
For me it feels such a familiarfriend, but sometimes I don't
hold it deep enough.
It's like, let me just go thatlittle bit deeper into what does
that actually?
What's it actually asking me tobe, if I'm really being
authentic right now?
Margot Thomas (14:09):
you can't be authentic.
I would say, if you're not, ormaybe not, that you can't.
Maybe.
Perhaps a pre-requirement ofauthenticity it is the process
of being in relationship withself yeah so it's almost like
what is my relationship withmyself in terms of how much do I
(14:31):
know me?
Yeah, and, and and how much.
And I love what you said, mon,about how much that is helpful
as well in community, right,because how many times we are
with some people that we reallyknow and then we see them from
(14:52):
that freeze, frozen perspectiveof this is Joe, and I look at
Joe and I hear Joe, or I hearMon from that lens and I freeze
you.
I'm not hearing you with the,the, as you you were saying
before, the unfolding joe.
So what is my quality of beingin relationship with and not the
(15:16):
other that allows that?
You know the differentdimension of you.
To come to Ford, yeah, becauseI'm holding you as you are, the
Joe of 10 years ago.
You know what I mean.
So where is my curiosity andthe quality of my?
You know it comes basically thequality of listening.
(15:36):
Yeah, that allows you to unfoldand evolve as we are in
relationship, right, sometimesthat might be easier with people
that we just met, but how canwe do that?
Support authenticity in ourdear ones by creating, you know,
that container and that spaceof being with one another.
(15:59):
That is personal.
I'm not going to hold you towhat you're passing, if that
makes sense.
Jolynne Rydz (16:08):
It's almost like fueling that courage you were
speaking of Mon that if youactively do that to those around
you that love you, it almostaddresses one of those root
fears of will I still be lovedor will I belong if I go?
Monique Longhurst (16:22):
through this transformation.
Jolynne Rydz (16:24):
So I love that proactive awareness about the
impact you're having on othersand their unfolding and I think
it translates beyond.
Monique Longhurst (16:33):
You know we've spoken about those we love
, and love is a big word.
If I come to the leadershiprole as well, you know there's
space for love in that space aswell.
So I don't want to be either orhere, um, but I think your
question around what's evolvingfrom a leadership lens and the
relationship between leadershipand authenticity, and I think
it's almost paradoxical thatthere is a level of knowing but
(16:53):
there's also a level of notknowing.
That's needed in our leaders atthe moment and an awareness of
what we don't yet know.
You know, I know the complexitythat leaders are leaning into,
regardless of the industry,regardless of the level of
leadership we're talking here.
You know, take leading yourfamily.
The complexity we're dealingwith at the moment is, you know,
(17:16):
exponentially challenging.
If we talk about leading teamswithin organisations, if we talk
about, you know, the context ofleading within community
organisations, the complexitywe're facing as leaders, we
can't actually know.
So that invite to knowourselves is really critical,
grounding us in a space of notknowing around us as well.
(17:37):
And I think that authenticitypiece about knowing, not knowing
, that's too strong a word, butthe authenticity piece about
what we're leaning into asleaders, from a basis of
self-awareness, from that basisof what do I know about myself
in this context at the moment,but also there's an awful lot
that we can't know and notholding ourselves too much to
(18:01):
that as well.
As I said, it's paradoxical, butI think there's something for
us in that space around theauthentic expression and we
talked, you know, before we evenstarted, about authentically
being messy with each other, aswe're having a three-way
conversation.
I think that's what's, that'swhat's really needed from
leaders, as well as how we showup, working through without
(18:24):
knowing, looking to progress,not to perfect or to land on a
particular outcome.
I think that's been shifting,for when we think about
authenticity in leadership, it'snot what do I do behind closed
doors, and now I know myself andnow I can come out and be
myself.
Actually, it's how do we dothat?
Live as we're working throughthe challenges, the
(18:46):
opportunities in front of us.
Margot Thomas (18:47):
And I think to build on that and actually
literally, I think last week wewere holding a couple of
workshops with different kind ofindustries and leaders in
different contexts, and Iremember saying that, but do
that in an authentic way.
We were talking, I think,that's, if you allow us, in
(19:07):
terms of you invited theleadership, so we'll bring the
leadership development part ofit right, which is, oh my God,
where do we go?
I'll be, you know, bring itsmall.
But there's something about inthe journey of developing.
It is a process of expanding,right.
(19:28):
So expanding our mindsets andtherefore our behavior patterns,
how we show up, is another wayof saying we kind of learn what
is natural for us.
You know, again, self-awareness, we kind of understand okay,
I'm good at this, I'm crap inthat, oh, pardon my French, I'm
(19:53):
not good at doing that.
Oh, this has come natural, thisis I avoid.
This is all process ofunderstanding preferences, that
some are natural, but as aleader, we're all being in a
situation that we need to workout of preference, right.
So the journey of developmentis it's almost like
understanding, okay, what is myinternal operating system looks
like, yeah, and understandingthe internal operating systems.
(20:16):
There's some strengths, there'ssome things that are innate and
natural, but you know that youreally have a, an impact.
I need to expand that and workin ways that are not necessary
and natural for me.
And an example, super simple, islike the extrovert, introvert,
kind of, as an introvert, mybest thinking it's done first
(20:43):
within.
For an extrovert, I love tothink out loud and if I use this
simple example, it's not alwaysas a leader that we can.
If we are an introvert, we canafford to first think within.
We might have to learn how towork out of preference and think
on the moment out loud withothers.
(21:04):
And vice versa.
For the extrovert right, zip itup, let others think.
Reflection time, don't, youknow, drop talking or think out
loud.
For you know, I need to learnhow to peel back.
And when we are holding leadersindividually, collectively, in
this journey of what we callbehavioral flexibility, yeah, so
(21:28):
when I start behaving in a waythat is, it's what is what
needed, not what is I feelcomfortable in doing, we always
say do it authentically.
Yeah, so my way of being anextrovert, it's not going to be
your way of being an extrovertin in behavior wise, you know,
displaying an extrovert, it'snot going to be your way of
being an extrovert in, inbehavior, wise, you know,
displaying an extrovert behavior, or there's so many um other
(21:51):
ways of looking at it.
You know what is it out ofpreference?
Some of us, for example, underpressure and should take over,
like lean in.
That's an automated responseand a few of us tend to, you
know, withdraw and look fromafar to process.
So there might be moments thatif I am the one leaning in, I
(22:14):
need to kind of in that momentthat's not what is needed.
Somebody else might need tolean in.
If it's always me, I'm robbingsomeone's chance to learn.
So this is again, again, it'sme exercising flexible behavior,
flexibility to let someone dosomething that I kind of
attended, such as an example.
(22:34):
And how can you, how can I stepback in a way that is me, it's
authentic.
Or leaning in a way that is meis authentic, it's not copying
somebody else.
Jolynne Rydz (22:47):
If that makes sense, that makes sense and I'm
curious to know what happenswhen someone doesn't do that
work on that internal operatingsystem, like what shows up in
organizations there's manythings that can show up and
because, you know, underpinningall that is our personality and
our personality preferences.
Monique Longhurst (23:08):
So if we are not aware, we will automatically
.
You know we still have animpact, if we're conscious of it
or not.
So I think that's you know.
If I can summarise what happensis we have an unconscious
impact and sometimes that servesTo be honest.
It has and it can.
But when we're dealing withcomplexity, when we're dealing
(23:31):
with ever-changing contexts,when we are dealing with
multiple stakeholders, that'sgoing to have a really limited
impact these days in terms of,you know, the sustainability of
that.
So in the moment, what canhappen is we will react rather
than respond.
We'll have an automatedreaction.
As I said, sometimes that canserve and often those automated
(23:52):
reactions have served us withlots of compassion for our
journey to where we are asleaders.
A lot of the stepping in asMargot suggested that example
that's probably served a lot ofpeople to get to where they've
got to in their journeyindividually, you know, on their
career pathway.
For others who step out, again,that's probably served them to
(24:13):
stay safe, to be able to read aroom, to step in when, but it's
not always the right responsefor the right time.
So when we don't do the work,we're only relying on those.
We've actually only got a smallrange of behaviors to band with
to bring.
Yeah, and I was going to say tochoose, but we're not even
choosing.
They're choosing us right.
(24:35):
When we do that work, it's notabout dismissing those because,
as Margot said, they can be oursuperpowers.
Actually, they can be beyondstrengths and be our superpowers
.
They can be what people cancount on us for, and it's often
the things we might even dismissin ourselves because it comes
so naturally.
We don't see that as a strength.
But when we do the work, whenwe build that awareness, when we
challenge ourselves to justpause for a moment and think
(24:59):
well, what is, how do I be ofservice in this moment?
What is needed from me for theimpact that I want to have as a
leader?
Sometimes that might be what wewould automatically do, which
is fabulous.
So it's about bringing thatwith consciousness.
Sometimes it's actually askingus to do something different.
It's that adage that what got ushere is not going to get us
(25:19):
there.
So if we're on our leadershipdevelopment journey, yes, that
has served me in the past, butit may not be what's needed for
me for now.
So, if I'm working with abroader team and I can no longer
physically hold theresponsibility of the doing
anymore, my role is to enable myteam to do the doing and to
serve our clients, and my rolenow is to look up and to look
(25:43):
out to make sure I can work withmy team and their barriers,
make sure that we can see theopportunities that are in front
of us.
There's a real letting go ifall my journey, or a lot of my
journey and a lot of my selfworth, has come from getting
stuff done.
So I think to come back to yourquestion is what happens is we
don't grow, we don't necessarilyexpand and sometimes we stay
(26:04):
still, but even more so the riskthese days is that things are
moving so quickly that actually,without doing the work, we
start to go backwards.
Our impact is minimized.
Um, it's not conscious.
It's driven from a place offear or protection as opposed to
of service or of impact that wewant to consciously have.
Margot Thomas (26:25):
So but it can show up very differently
depending on our personality andyou can think that, oh, you
know how many times we heardthis is me, you get it, it's me,
I'll be authentic, yeah, that'syou know.
Authentic not equals, uh, it'sjust you being sticking to your
(26:46):
old ways.
Yeah.
So I guess, oh, you know, evenin the 70s, psychologists in the
70s they profile you, you knowpsychological profiling.
You name it and that's it, youwill be it.
Yeah, so you either this orthat, and thank God, you know.
And since you knowneuroplasticity, neuroscience,
(27:07):
we know we can continue todevelop.
So we are not our personalities,right?
We absolutely are personalities, as I mentioned, of who we are,
or it's something that we havebut not who we are.
So that notion about sorry,this is me, I'm an extrovert,
(27:28):
that's it.
Or I am, I don't know, a taskoriented person, or I am a
thinker, and that's it.
This is part of who you are andnot necessary.
You know, to be super authentic, I have to be in that place.
That's kind of a a mis mismisinterpretation for me of what
(27:49):
really being authentic.
You know, the leadershipdeveloped component of being
authentic, it's being perhapsmessy and vulnerable as you're
trying to expand, doing thingsin ways that are not natural for
you or easy for you.
This is for me, it's more, youknow, impactful authenticity
(28:12):
than excuse myself on thatauthenticity.
Jolynne Rydz (28:17):
So both of you are incredibly passionate about
this, and I'd love to know ifthere was a moment where this
hit home for you the power ofauthenticity and leadership.
Monique Longhurst (28:29):
What's the question?
Margot Thomas (28:29):
question oh, that is a fabulous question see this
is, this is funny, right,because this, there's a layer of
personality, like from on, Iwon't speak to her, she will,
but in my sense, so you know,the authenticity, even a value,
will mean different things todifferent people.
(28:51):
Same value, right?
So authenticity for me as a nowthat I understand a little bit
more, my personality has astrong relationship with
integrity.
But what that's, that's for me,so the, the authenticity piece
for me, there is that sense thatI need to show up without the
(29:13):
internal incongruence, right.
So that has to be, and always,you know, the journey has been,
and standing up and doing whatis right, authentically right,
sort of the personality, what isright, authentically right sort
of the personality.
So I'm just trying to reflecton your question in a very
(29:34):
clumsy, authentic, clumsy waybecause I cannot not remember
not being authentic, yeah, sortof because of that attachment to
the integrity and it was soimportant in that sense.
Perhaps, if we wind back to thebeginning of a conversation and
(30:02):
the socialised, the normalisedkind of that we've all been
through, I think when I startreal, realizing the hang on a
minute, I'm actually not myresults, I am not my job.
There was a beginning of the,perhaps the, the, the, the
(30:23):
curiosity and the desire to meetwhat.
What am I then if I'm not that?
Yeah, so I had a year gap.
Stop working for you, which isterrifying for someone with my
script, right, I'm work and I'm,you know, I work a lot because,
you know, came from a bluecolor working family that you
(30:46):
know kept reinforcing.
Oh, you're so dedicated, youknow, as single from from early
years and also a form.
Okay, love equals.
Keep doing good.
Yeah, hard work so to to removemy, my identity from that
beautiful picture.
Um, then you know that wascreated in those early years.
(31:09):
It's kind of a.
I think for me was thebeginning of the other dimension
of authenticity.
Okay, so if I'm not my job ormy roles and my results, who am?
I fuck?
It's scary to you.
Know what is left if I removeall of that?
And and I had a goal, I had,fortunately the inner and the
(31:31):
outer resources to have a yeargap and what I found was awesome
.
Jolynne Rydz (31:37):
And I want to thank you for sharing that
because I think it's soimportant, particularly right
now when there's so much changegoing on in organizations and
restructures and people losingthat identity when they lose a
role in an organisation, so it'sso powerful to share.
You know, who am I without thatand being?
Monique Longhurst (31:55):
able to find that Mon, how about you?
It's such a beautifulopportunity to reflect on the
question, thank you.
And as you're sharing yourstory, margot, there is
something uniquely personalabout that journey and you're
right, there's, as I reflect on,where I first went.
So as soon as you went to thatquestion I can't even recall the
(32:16):
exact question now, so I'vemade it my own um, there's a I
have a relationship withauthenticity and uniqueness, and
which is really fascinating.
So you talked aboutauthenticity, integrity, and for
me it's authenticity anduniqueness, and I can take that
right back.
I'm one of four children.
You know how do you, what'suniquely mine to own in the
(32:37):
space of family and a biggerfamily around us as well?
Never felt the pressure toconform, necessarily, but I
think just you know I can startto see what's uniquely me in
this space.
How do I uniquely expressmyself amongst many, any values,
and, as I said before, this isa core value for me.
(32:59):
I can go back to points in timeon my career where that value
was challenged.
I have a very vivid memory,early in my twenties, of a very
senior leader telling me um, Ican even hear the words now, so
you can sell those moments.
You know, don't think you'respecial.
(33:19):
There's nothing special aboutyou.
You've got to do your time,you've got to work your way up.
And there was just something inme straight away that went oh
no, you don't get to tell methat actually.
And something in me straightaway that went oh no, you don't
get to tell me that actually.
And something in me came out.
You know, if I look back nowI'm going, what was I?
I wasn't thinking, but thewords out of my mouth was you
(33:40):
don't get to tell me that, youdon't decide if.
I am special or not, I do.
I, you know it was not aboutwanting to skip the line or have
any special treatment, but itwas definitely a putting me in
my place, which was not theplace I wanted to be in.
So those just and you know, acouple of times in my career I
can have versions of that, andso for me that that piece
(34:02):
between authenticity and beingtold who I am it's like that's
for me to discover and for me todetermine my personality is
actually I do a lot of I'm notgoing to say fitting in, but I
do a lot of flexing for theenvironment around me.
It's actually one of mysuperpowers to be able to link
into spaces, so it's kind ofthis real contrast.
(34:23):
But when that goes too far orthat's being taken for granted
or determined for me, that'swhere that has certainly come
around and I think that's why mypassion is always and in the
work that we do, particularly inthe individual leader space, in
our coaching, even in our groupwork, but where we get to have
deep connections with ourindividuals amongst the group,
(34:46):
is that unleashing of ourpotential right, and people who
see us have a perspective onthat.
But it's just a perspective.
We've got our own perspectiveon our own innate potential as
well.
So that desire to really linkauthenticity to potential and
unleashing that, the more weknow about ourselves, the more
that we want to have an impact.
(35:09):
What's that?
That's uniquely our potentialto bring to the world.
So I think that's yeah, I thinkthat's my relationship and some
of the early things that reallysprung for me the desire to
bring authenticity as a key partof our work as well.
(35:38):
I love that we've gotuniqueness and integrity so so,
so powerful, wow.
So I hope you found thatincredibly fascinating and I
wanted to pull out three keypoints that I was hearing
throughout that.
The first one is the questionto reflect on from Margot, which
is what are you longing fordeep down?
What is it that you are longingfor that you're wanting to make
an impact on?
The second thing I'd like todraw your attention to is that
(36:01):
something Monique shared, whichwas authenticity needs more
courage than living up to theexpectation of others, and I
wonder, I'm curious, if that'swhy many of us get stuck,
because it's easier almost tolive up to the expectation of
others.
It's a fail safe, it's ablanket.
It's certainly something I'veexperienced myself that if I can
(36:24):
do what I'm doing becauseothers expected of me, I'm let
off the hook if it doesn't gowell.
So it takes that courage toevolve and it requires people to
have curiosity and openness toallow us and the others around
us to step into their ownauthenticity.
So don't see someone as oneversion of themselves, because
(36:46):
that in itself is going to limitthem and, in return, it's going
to limit you.
So the third thing I wanted tobring your attention to is that
complexity that we're allexperiencing right now in our
environments and this need, asleaders and as people, to not
(37:07):
know and to invite ourselvesinto that space of grounding
where, when we know who we are,it's so much easier to sit in
that space of not knowing what'sgoing to happen in the world
around us, being able to show upand be messy and look for
progress over perfection.
(37:27):
So if you're wondering, how areyou showing up?
Are you showing up the way thatyou want to?
Is that having the impact thatyou want to have?
If you're wondering, how do youunleash your own authenticity
and potential, then stay tunedto part two of this interview
because, as I said, we're goingto go deep and it's a lot of fun
(37:50):
.
So stay tuned, keep your eyeout and remember you were born
for a reason it's time to thrive.
Popular Podcasts
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.
True Crime Tonight
If you eat, sleep, and breathe true crime, TRUE CRIME TONIGHT is serving up your nightly fix. Five nights a week, KT STUDIOS & iHEART RADIO invite listeners to pull up a seat for an unfiltered look at the biggest cases making headlines, celebrity scandals, and the trials everyone is watching. With a mix of expert analysis, hot takes, and listener call-ins, TRUE CRIME TONIGHT goes beyond the headlines to uncover the twists, turns, and unanswered questions that keep us all obsessed—because, at TRUE CRIME TONIGHT, there’s a seat for everyone. Whether breaking down crime scene forensics, scrutinizing serial killers, or debating the most binge-worthy true crime docs, True Crime Tonight is the fresh, fast-paced, and slightly addictive home for true crime lovers.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com