July 31, 2025 • 35 mins
Ever wondered what it would be like to go from 30 clients a week, burned out and underpaid, to a thriving private practice built around your values and strengths? In this episode, I chat with Natasha Dean, a clinician in Baltimore, about her incredible three-year journey from group practice overwhelm to confidently charging $200 per session and attracting right-fit clients.
Natasha shares the pivotal mindset shifts that helped her trust herself, market authentically, and stop playing small. We talk about how she found her micro niche (therapy for Muslim adult children of immigrants), transitioned off insurance panels, and discovered the joy of brainspotting intensives. She also opens up about how Confident Copy helped her write copy that truly resonates—not just for therapy, but for other creative projects too.
Whether you're on the edge of burnout or dreaming of a more aligned practice, this episode will leave you inspired to believe in what's possible.
Here’s what you’ll learn in this episode:
1️⃣ Why being a "blank slate" therapist might be burning you out—and what happens when you finally show up as yourself
2️⃣ The power of choosing a micro niche and how specificity actually attracts more of the right clients
3️⃣ How Natasha reframed a "slow market" and leaned into long-term networking that continues to pay off
Resources & Links Mentioned:
- Natasha’s practice: goldenhour-counseling.com
- Confident Copy: walkerstrategyco.com/cc
- The Walker Strategy Co website: walkerstrategyco.com
Connect + Subscribe
Enjoying the podcast? Subscribe so you never miss an episode—and feel free to share it with a fellow therapist who’s building their private practice. Explore more marketing support for therapists: The Walker Strategy Co website: walkerstrategyco.com
About Marketing Therapy
Marketing Therapy is the podcast where therapists learn how to market their private practices without burnout, self-doubt, or sleazy tactics. Hosted by Anna Walker—marketing coach, strategist, and founder of Walker Strategy Co—each episode brings you clear, grounded advice to help you attract the right-fit, full-fee clients and grow a practice you feel proud of.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Anna Walker (00:00):
Hey, hey, welcome back to Marketing Therapy.
(00:02):
I'm so excited to share this one with you.
In this interview, I sit down with NatashaDean, who is a clinician in Baltimore.
We talk all about her story, and wecover a lot of ground here, but Natasha
shares about going from working in agroup practice, serving 30 clients a
week, whoever she's assigned to, to nowattracting right fit clients at $200 a
(00:25):
session, and doing it in a way that feels.
Really authentic and aligned andcreating a practice now where she has
margin for exploring other ways ofserving people, other revenue streams.
We talk about a lot here.
I can't wait for youto get to know Natasha.
And so enough for me.
Let's get into it.
Alright, Natasha, welcome to the show.
(00:46):
Can you start with introducingyourself, who you are, where
you're located, a little bit aboutyourself and your background.
Natasha Deen (00:52):
Yeah, so I'm Natasha.
I am A-L-C-P-C and I am locatedin Maryland, but I'm licensed
in both Maryland and Virginia.
And I support Bipoc clients, adults,individual adults in doing deep
work, trauma-informed care and brainspotting, and my micro niche, um, it's
therapy for Muslim adult children ofimmigrants and kind of helping them
(01:16):
take care of themselves the sameway that they take care of others.
Yeah, I
Anna Walker (01:19):
think that answered all of your questions.
Perfect.
Perfect.
Tell me about the season of life or kindof practice that you're in right now.
I, we're gonna talk about yourjourney and how you got here, but
where are you finding yourself today?
Here, 2025.
And in this wild world we're living in.
Natasha Deen (01:34):
Yeah, so I am almost three years into my own private practice.
And there've been a lot of shiftslately, so I have a few new
offerings, so that's really exciting.
But I'm definitely in a placethat I didn't expect to be at all.
It was like a dream to be in this positionthat I'm in now, and I really didn't.
Think that it was gonnahappen especially so soon.
(01:56):
'cause I worked with you almostthree years ago when I first started.
So like the amount of change thatI've gone through in just the three
years has been, I've surprised myself.
Anna Walker (02:04):
Okay.
Well I wanna know all about that,but first take us back like to the
beginning, three years ago, even beforethat, what was life like when you
decided to jump into private practice?
Where were you in yourlife as a therapist?
Tell us more about that.
Natasha Deen (02:17):
Yeah, so I was working at a different private practice
for working for somebody else.
It was their practice and weaccepted insurance, so I was
like getting a cut of a cut.
You know, insurance takes their cutfirst and then the practice owners
take their cut and I think I was seeinglike 30 people a week on a good week.
(02:38):
Yeah.
Wow.
Yeah, it was, it was a lot.
And then, you know, notmaking as much as I felt like.
Compensated for seeing that many people.
I was actually at a point where Icontemplated leaving the field altogether
'cause I was just like, I'm burnt out.
I don't like this.
We also didn't get tochoose who we worked with.
They just kind of assigned peoplebased on availability and to some
(03:01):
extent like what you offered.
So it felt like a fit moreso on the client end rather
than like a both way fit.
Yeah, so I really thought aboutleaving and I think I had a couple of
friends at the time who were startingtheir own private practice and I was
like, maybe that's what I need to do.
Maybe I just need to do this in a waythat feels really fulfilling to me.
Working with the clients thatI knew best how to help and
(03:23):
felt like a really good fit.
'cause I did have some on my caseloadwho were a really good fit and I actually
felt, I noticed I was feeling moreenergized when working with those clients.
So I was like, okay, maybeI don't have to leave.
Maybe I just need moreof this and that's what.
Really the, the big thing thatpushed me into private practice.
And then I found you, like from oneof my friends, Katherine, actually,
(03:44):
she told me about you and I was like,okay, let me see what this is about.
And that was actually, um.
I started my practice in September,2022, and I think I started working
with you like very shortly after that.
I went and looked
Anna Walker (03:59):
it up before this talk.
Yeah, and I believe it wasNovember maybe that you joined.
Yeah,
Natasha Deen (04:02):
yeah,
Anna Walker (04:03):
yeah, yeah.
I remember it being fall closer towinter time, so that sounds right.
Yeah.
So when you decided to go intopractice, obviously you were hoping
to work with people that you enjoyed,to avoid or, you know, really remedy
this burnout you were experiencing.
Mm-hmm.
Did you have any other big goalsfor what this practice would be?
You mentioned that right now you'rein a place you never would've
imagined, but back then, what wereyou, what were you hoping for?
(04:25):
Back then I was hoping
Natasha Deen (04:26):
for the bare minimum, I was just like, I
just wanna do good therapy work.
I wanna feel more balanced and in a betterposition as a therapist to be like my, you
know, my best self, be supported in what Ineed so that I could be a better therapist
to the clients that I was working with.
And that was really my only priority.
And of course, you know, makemore money than I was making.
(04:47):
But that was really it.
I didn't have as big.
What at the time felt like lofty dreams.
And now like the more that I'm init and every time I hit a new goal
or a milestone, I'm like, well,I could, like, I could do more.
I could, you know, I could dream for more.
I could ask for more.
I could do more.
Yeah.
(05:07):
And I think, you know, whenyou're, especially as a therapist.
You don't really feel likeyou can dream that big.
It feels like I have to just like,I'm here to just serve other people.
And that's really it.
That 'cause like, you know, I think for alot of us that generally does, genuinely
does, um, make us feel fulfilled.
But then when you can do that andtake care of yourself and see how you
(05:28):
can continue to support and help yourcommunity in all these other ways when
you're not burnt out, just trying tolike work with any client that comes
through your door and you're, oninsurance panels and taking a cut of a or
getting a cut of a cut, like you are notreally thinking much further than that.
Anna Walker (05:43):
Absolutely.
It's hard to when it's just, youknow, paycheck to paycheck session
to session in those early days.
Yeah.
Early on when you decided to makethis leap from group practice, did you
do that all at once or did you, likebuild your private practice on the
side while still working at the group?
What was that transition like for you?
That it was actually, in
Natasha Deen (06:00):
some ways
Anna Walker (06:01):
it
Natasha Deen (06:01):
was really difficult and in other ways I think it helped me.
Be in the position that I'm in right now.
So like when I decided to leave mypractice and I had had the conversation
with them, I was originally planningto slowly build on the side, but.
It just didn't end up going that way.
There were some issues and I had to leavea lot sooner than I wanted to, and I just
(06:22):
kind of had to like jump straight into it.
And thankfully at the time I was livingwith my parents still, so I was like,
okay, let me just do everything then.
Let me get off insurance.
Let me start my practice, let me,you know, set a higher fee and just
do everything at the same time whileI have the safety net, which is also
why I think I didn't have as big.
Dreams and goals.
'cause I was like, I need to just, Ineed to just like survive on my feet.
(06:45):
Yeah.
Yeah.
So,
Anna Walker (06:47):
okay,
Natasha Deen (06:47):
so you kind of ripped off
Anna Walker (06:48):
the bandaid.
You did all the things all at oncethere and just took the big leap,
Natasha Deen (06:52):
which is why I was like, okay, now I need to go talk to Anna
because how do, how do I like, not speedup the process, but like, how do I do
this right and get it right from the jump?
Anna Walker (07:02):
Sure, sure.
Okay.
Interesting.
When you were in those early days,and obviously we met pretty soon
after, what felt, if you can remember,the most daunting at that time?
So you'd made these decisions, youstarted the practice, you raised
your fees, you deep paneled.
What was the biggest like dun, dun, dunlike thing you had to do or overcome?
Natasha Deen (07:20):
Where am I gonna find people?
How are people gonna find me?
Like through insurance, it'sreally easy for people to find you.
You get full really quickly throughinsurance, but now it's like, I'm.
I'm start and I was pretty earlyinto my career at that point too.
Anyway, I had graduated in 2019, so then,you know, between 2019 and 2022, still
(07:44):
being a fairly new therapist at that.
And then I'm like, okay, well I'vespent all this time not trying to.
Really make a name for myself, butjust trying to get, get into the swing
of things as a therapist, just tryingto figure out how to help people.
And now I have to continue doing thatand figure out how to be a business
owner, how to start a practice, howto do all these, and then do all these
(08:07):
things that I didn't go to school for.
Running a business, marketing,you know, all of that.
Had to figure out howto do all at one time.
So that was, I think, marketing.
And figuring out how clients will find me.
Were the, like that they kindof go hand in hand, but it was
the scariest part of all of it.
Yeah, absolutely.
Anna Walker (08:23):
Making that leap is, is terrifying.
So you heard about Confident Copyfrom, from a friend, from Catherine.
You joined.
What stood out to you?
It has been a while now and we gotto work together again as you sort of
rejoined confident copy earlier this year.
But in your original experience,what support tools, breakthroughs
did you have or, or did youfind really stood out to you?
Natasha Deen (08:43):
I think the biggest takeaway from all of it was the
emphasis on the copy, right?
Like how to write copy and howto write it in a way that is
gonna attract your ideal client.
While every like there was, there wastruly so much that was really helpful.
I think.
That was the biggest takeaway becauseeven in some of the things that I'm
doing now, the things that I learnedfrom Confident Copy and how to write is
(09:05):
benefiting me in all of these other ways.
So like marketing in other areasin some of these other like
non therapy related spaces.
So that I think just that youwere like, okay, I am gonna
teach you guys how to do this.
I'm not gonna like, you know,you have the done for you.
Programs, which is great, but you'realso like, I'm gonna show you how you
do this thing so that you're set up inthe future, which is so much of how I do
(09:28):
my work as a therapist, where I'm like,I don't want you to be dependent on me.
I'm gonna give you these toolsand these skills so that you can
figure it out and I'll be there tosupport you, and then you're gonna
be fine to go do that on your own.
So it, that resonated with me so much.
And that's exactly whatI got out of the program.
And I, I can't even tell you how manytimes I've gone back to the vault and
(09:48):
revamped my website or how many timesI've even gone back to the vault to
use it for non therapy related things.
And it's just been incredibly
Anna Walker (09:55):
helpful.
Yeah, I think it, it's interesting,it's easy to discount words, um, because
words don't feel as sexy or shiny asSEO or Google Ads or Instagram reels,
and yet none of those things work.
Well, if you don't havethe words figured out.
Right.
So I love hearing thatreflection from you.
It's, it's one of the coolest parts Ithink about Confident Copy is not only
(10:18):
are you hopefully leaving with an ideaof your niche and a good website, but a
way of talking about and thinking aboutyour work and your marketing so that
whatever it is you do next, even if it'snon therapy related, you have a strategy
you can return to and you can trust.
Natasha Deen (10:32):
Yeah, yeah.
No, I agree.
I think it's, and it likeconfident copy is the perfect.
Name for it too, because it'slike, you also were encouraging
us to be confident in these skillsand building these, um, building
these skills and using these tools.
And I think that that was another,like really big piece of all of
this, being more confident in howand, and how to express myself.
(10:56):
Like have that come across ina really authentic way, not.
Therapist speak, but speaking toan ideal client and really hitting
their pain points so they feellike they're heard and understand,
understood before they even come in.
'cause I, it was like, I could dothat, I could do that in a consult
call and I could really connectwith people on a consult call.
But how, how do I write that ona website for like, you know,
(11:18):
the general public, basically,how do I connect with everybody?
And even that, I think, I can't remember.
Where I heard this before, but it's like.
As a business owner, you haveto say no more than you say yes.
'cause you're making room for allof the, you know, right fit clients
or the right fit opportunities.
And I think like when we're talking aboutniching down and when you're talking about
(11:41):
speaking to an ideal client, it's likesaying no to the people who are not a
good fit right up front, which is reallyscary, especially when you're in a place.
When you're like, I, but I need clients.
I don't have any clients, or Ineed, you know, a certain amount of
income and I'm just not there yet.
So it, it made me think a lot of how.
You kind of like teach thingsincompetent copy, where it's like,
(12:02):
it's okay to say no to these peoplewho aren't, aren't a good fit.
That just means you're gonna attract thepeople who are a really good fit, who see
themselves in the way that you're writing.
And so when I could get out of thathead space of I'm writing so that
everybody can see themselves here,it's more of you're writing so that the
person that you really do wanna workwith and do your best work with knows
(12:22):
that you're the right person for them.
Mm-hmm.
Just like you put in a consult call.
Anna Walker (12:25):
Yeah, that's a powerful shift for sure.
What surprised you most aboutyour own growth through the
process of Confident Copy?
You know, having gone from working withthis wide range of clients, whoever was
sent your way in the group practice tonow essentially getting to choose, getting
to say yes and say no, figuring outyour niche, what, where do you feel like
you grew the most through that process?
Natasha Deen (12:48):
I think maybe just like understanding a little bit more.
Of where my skillset lies, likewhat I'm really good at, but
what I can do, what I can't do.
'cause before when it was just like youhave to, it felt like you have to fit.
Yourself into this box that like theclient brings into session versus
like, you are just here and thisclient is also just here and you
(13:11):
guys just work from the beginning.
You've established that beforethey even come in and you can like
authentically help them and even in ways.
That, and I've been really surprisedhow I like my, some of my, I guess
like techniques even have changed asa therapist where I went from trying
to be this blank slate to like, that'snot gonna work with my ideal client.
Like, I disclose a lot more, obviouslyin ways that are appropriate, but like
(13:34):
having such similar life experiences tosome of my clients when just sharing.
Oh yeah, I, I know what that's like.
And not saying anything more,they're just like, oh, okay.
Like, you get it, you get it.
Then I don't have to explain this.
And that really resonating with people.
But I couldn't do it before because one,it wasn't true, it wasn't authentic.
And two, like it also felt like if I.
(13:55):
You know, going back to thatidea of fitting into a box.
If I couldn't fit in this box inthis way, then I had to like try and
figure it out in a different way.
And then you spend too much obsession inyour head and trying to figure out, well,
what do you need and how do I be that?
And that's not helpful to anybody.
Anna Walker (14:08):
Interesting.
That's a cool, that's acool byproduct that as you.
Get clear on the work that you dowell and you attract the people
that you're designed to serve.
Like it, it serves everyone better, right?
What you, the therapist, you're ableto be in the room is a better therapist
because you're sitting down and you'renot in an uncomfortable box, right?
Yeah.
Yeah, exactly.
(14:29):
Cool, cool.
Um, alright.
Tell me about what you're up to now.
You mentioned having experiencedthings you never would have, uh,
dreamt of, and you've also donesome kind of niche evolution.
Yeah.
So give us a little bit of an update.
Where's, where does Natashafind herself today in 2025?
Natasha Deen (14:45):
Yeah, so I think this was something that you've also mentioned in
Confident Copy, but it wasn't, and I don'tknow if I just like didn't pay attention
to it too much at the time, but you hadmentioned how like if you can get your
copyright, you can set your rate at a ratethat you need it to be, you want it to be,
and you will attract those clients and youknow, it's, it's not gonna feel like I'm.
(15:06):
Stating this quote unquote crazyfee, and then you're trying to
desperately fill those spots.
So my fee is 200, whichis average for my area.
But it took me a littlewhile to get to that point.
'cause I was just so scared thatlike, people aren't gonna come,
they're not gonna wanna pay 200.
And like, what do I haveto offer that's worth 200?
(15:26):
You know, those types of thoughts.
And so as I've, like I justmentioned as I've evolved as
a therapist, seeing how like.
You know, there are things thatI offer that people need and they
would be willing to pay that amount.
And so I've also been able to dobrainspotting intensives, offer
Brainspotting intensives, which isone of my favorite things to do.
(15:46):
And one of my goals was to like do thatmore often so that I could see less.
People on a weekly basis and thenhave brain spotting intensives and
still be like, okay, income wise,but do more of that work That feels
really aligned with me and like, youknow, again, tapping into my skills
that I'm just like really good at.
(16:07):
So then doing that, making that shift.
I think within the past year and a half.
It's also given me more time inmy schedule to do other things.
So now like I'm in the middle ofcreating a guided journal and like I
said, not like it is kind of therapyrelated, but in a totally different way.
And again, using what I've learnedin competent copy to help like market
(16:28):
that journal and even some of likethe ways that I've written things in
the journal too, but like getting tohave, I think just live a life that's
more authentic and in a way that I getto help people in so many different.
Ways as well.
Like not just feeling like my job asa therapist is just to show up, see
30 people a week, come home totallyexhausted and drained, but like, no.
(16:50):
Now I get to come home and do more thingsfor people and support my community Yeah.
In another way.
Mm-hmm.
And still have that time formyself and still be able to
meet my income goals and things
Anna Walker (17:01):
like that.
So
Natasha Deen (17:02):
yeah.
Anna Walker (17:02):
How wonderful.
So you're at 200 a session rightnow, and how are most of your
ideal clients often finding you?
It
Natasha Deen (17:10):
used to be through Psychology Today on my website now it's
like my website and networking and mm-hmm.
You know, both of that.
My website, you
Anna Walker (17:19):
know, confident copy.
Yeah.
It all comes back to that.
It's, it's interesting how that works.
Yeah.
How cool.
To think back to, like you said, thatlike seeing 30 clients a week burnt out,
contemplating leaving the field to now.
Having, like serving in allof these different ways and
feeling a lot more fulfilled,that's quite the transformation,
especially in just three years.
You mentioned being surprisedthat you are here now.
(17:41):
What's the most surprising about them?
I think when.
Natasha Deen (17:46):
You can really show up to everything that you do.
Like, especially work authentically.
You open the door for somany other opportunities.
And I just did not realize that beforebecause I could not be authentic
at work where it felt like I had,again, fitting into that box and
trying to be what clients needed.
So that drains you too.
That burns you out too.
(18:07):
You have no energy left foryourself, for your family, for
like other things, friends.
So when you're just like.
Like not getting to be who you areand share your skills, your talents,
your strengths with the world, then.
You're like not able to meetsome of these other goals.
I think through confident copy, if I'mable to express myself in a way that
(18:28):
speaks to my ideal client, and it'snot, again, you know, like it's not
about you, it's also about your client,but in a way that works for both of
you, then that helps you to accomplishso many other things that feel really
aligned with your values, your goals,and it doesn't have to be in a way.
Feels like icky or gross.
Like I know when you talk aboutmarketing or networking, it's like,
(18:50):
you know, people feel like, it feelslike it has to be in the, these like
slimy, salesy, salesy kind of ways.
And it doesn't have to be like thatwhen you just, you show up really
authentically in your work, in yourcopy, in the things that you do.
And so I was really surprised at howmany doors that open just by truly
being authentic and getting that across.
Anna Walker (19:11):
Mm.
That's really powerful.
I want to talk a little bit aboutthe, um, micro niche that you've
identified and a little bit of theevolution that you've experienced.
So recent or earlier this year, you joinedCC Extended, which is where you kind
of jumped back into the live calls andthings, which was so fun to see you again.
Um, what led you to sort of add onthis micro niche, um, and how is
that part of your practice going?
(19:32):
How'd you get there?
Tell me a little bit about that.
Natasha Deen (19:34):
Yeah, funny enough, I feel like it wasn't super
explicit on my website, but itwas what I was doing anyway.
So again, so again, like just trying toget that across in, in the copy because
I think I had a client say I could tell.
What you do and like, you know, how youwork, but it was kind of subtle and I
(19:54):
was like, okay, well then I need to goback to Confident copy and figure out
how to make it like, you know, more,more visible, more like very clearly this
is what I do and this is how it works.
Um, and that's how I ended up coming backand like getting really specific in the
micro niche because I think that therewas still a part of me that was trying to.
(20:14):
Write more broadly, speak to more people.
And like I said, even though therewere certain pages that I updated
or pages that I added, I think thecore of my website had stayed the
same since when I first joined.
So when.
Just like me being in a differentmindset after having worked with
clients where I could feel moreauthentic with, and I was going, like,
I was trying to write this copy whenI was not quite in that place yet.
(20:38):
So seeing how that'sshifted and how I show up.
When I went back and actuallyread through my website, I was
like, oh no, this is not right.
Like this doesn't resonate anymore.
So yeah, that's, I think.
Like you said that this waskind of always my niche.
I just didn't fully realize that yet.
Anna Walker (20:52):
Yeah, and sometimes it does take sitting with it
and meeting those clients andworking with those clients mm-hmm.
To kind of feel like you have permissionto get a little bit more specific.
I think it's one of the cool examplesof how evolution is healthy and
normal and good and effective,quite frankly, in your marketing.
Natasha Deen (21:09):
I think it's really interesting too that despite not having it
as explicitly stated on my website, likethe clients were still finding me and the
right fit clients, were still finding me.
So I think, like I hope that thisis kind of a proof to everybody that
even when you micro niche, like inyou're worried that you're not gonna
get certain people or you're worriedthat like you need to speak more
(21:30):
broadly, there is something about you.
Something that you do that people need.
And no matter how you may try to like hidethat, it's not gonna be totally hidden.
It's gonna come out and people wantthat and they're looking for that.
But you know, if you could justbe a little bit more clear about
it and explicit, then it's gonnaattract people so much more easily
(21:51):
and quickly and obviously Yes.
So I think, you know, that wassomething else that surprised me too.
Like, wow, okay.
No matter what we do, even when wetry and be a blank slate, like that's
not really happening in that way.
Anna Walker (22:02):
Interesting.
Yeah.
The power of of showing up to yourmarketing in an authentic way.
We find ourselves right now in 2025,I know you've heard the same thing I
have, that things have slowed down.
People aren't paying for therapy, it'shard to get clients, that kind of thing.
Yet here you sit reaching goals.
You didn't ever imagine, youknow, charging $200 an hour.
Uh, you don't have to give me yourwhole spiel on what you think the
(22:23):
market is doing, but what would yousay to those therapists who feel
discouraged or maybe do have thosethoughts or beliefs that success is.
You know, not possible orharder than it used to be.
Natasha Deen (22:36):
I, the piece about being, it being harder than it used to be.
I've tried to reframe thatas like, it's just different.
It's, it feels harder because we gotused to something and now we have
to shift, but it's just different.
And like we had to do thatat the beginning, right?
Like whenever you started marketing,you had to figure that out.
Most of us went to schoolonly for counseling.
Only for therapy.
So no matter what, I think it might bejust a little bit hard to shift into
(23:00):
a different mindset, but it's not, Iwouldn't necessarily say it's like.
Harder than anything that you,you know, we've already done
and tried to figure out before.
And then I would say, look at the numbers.
Like I listened to your mostrecent podcast episode and
that really resonated with me.
I think sometimes we feel that.
Things have slowed down.
And that might be true, but if you'restill hitting certain goals, like income
(23:23):
goals, if your income hasn't changed,if you're still seeing, X amount of
clients a week or things are balancingout, then like it, did it really slow
down or does it just feel different?
And so I think, trying to go basedoff of facts versus feelings, which,
you know, as therapists we're allfamiliar with, but that, that really
stood out to me that really resonated.
'cause I think in thesummer, for whatever reason.
(23:47):
It feels like things slow down alot more than they actually do.
When I, every single summer, Igo back and look at the numbers
and I end up being really busy.
I don't know, like sometimes I'mseeing less clients, but I end up
being busier and I'm just like, what?
I still don't fullyunderstand what's happening.
I actually have to sit downand look at my numbers too.
But I think like, you know,other things might pick up.
I tend to try and market moreand revisit my website, and
(24:10):
so I'm busier in that sense.
Um, and I may not be busy directlywith client related things, but I
also find that doing brain spottingintensivess people, because it's
shorter term, people will like, dothat in the summer than necessarily
be ready to do like deep longer work.
So I, I kind of see it from bothperspectives, doing both like
(24:30):
short-term and long-term work.
Yeah, I, I think just, yeah,like really sitting down and
evaluating what's going on.
And I think the other part of it toois when you're, again, just being
really clear about what you do,people are always looking for that.
Even if it slows down, there's alwaysgonna be somebody who's looking for this
thing that you offer and this thing thatyou do, or who you are as a therapist too.
(24:52):
And it's just a matter of likewhen they're gonna find you.
The other thing I will say toois, and I think you might have
mentioned this in that same episode.
It like the ups and downsare always gonna be there.
Especially as a owning a business,there's always gonna be ups and downs.
What you really have to look at is, doesit even out at the end of that year?
Because if it is slower in thesummer, but then every fall it
(25:14):
picks up and you make way more,then like it kind of balances out.
Right.
That.
And when I started looking at it,and now because it's been almost
three years, I have more information.
I can see more trends, but at thevery beginning when it was like,
well, this never happened when Iwas taking insurance, this never
happened when, you know, I was workingfor someone else, it did, but I
just didn't see it or notice it as
Anna Walker (25:34):
much.
Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
The seasonality and everyone'sseasonality is a little bit unique.
And the longer you are in it,the more comfortable you can
be with those ebbs and flows.
But there's, it's very, it's sonatural to have a little bit of
anxiety when those things come up.
But you're absolutely right.
If we can zoom out and keep an eye on thetrends and the overall health as opposed
to just how it feels, usually we can makedecisions from a much more grounded place.
(25:55):
And, and if it is, like you said,slower, then let's invest that
time in improving optimizing, yeah.
Dreaming.
About what else could, yeah, the
Natasha Deen (26:04):
way that I look at it too, I have summer be like my end of
year rather than December because.
Then 'cause you know, if you just lookat it from like summer to summer and
when things slow down, how it typically,you expect it to typically be at the
end of the year and then look back atthat trend, then it, it looks really
different and it feels really differentthan when you go like January to
Anna Walker (26:25):
December.
What an interesting, I have never heardof that, but that makes a lot of sense.
And I even just, that little reframecould actually be really powerful
when you think about your number.
Yeah,
Natasha Deen (26:33):
I think, and that I feel, this is like a part of a much different
conversation, but I feel like the cycleof things, like that's what's more
consistent with human nature anyway.
Like spring feels like thenew year versus in January.
So when I kind of started following that Iwas like, okay, yeah, I feel like things.
Align a lot differently.
'cause when you see it as a drop in themiddle of the year, that's really scary.
(26:56):
But when you see it as like, Ithink people think, oh, holiday
time, it's the end of the year.
Things will slow down.
I don't know if it's just me and maybethe population I work with, but I've never
really seen it slow down at the end of theyear like that, like I have in the summer.
And so if you're expecting that at theend of your year, just shift your year.
Anna Walker (27:13):
Yeah.
Yeah, absolutely.
That's the, the solution here is tojust follow a different calendar.
I love that.
This has been so wonderful.
Natasha, I learned so much about you.
I didn't know all the ins and outsof this journey you've been on.
When you look back over the last threeyears, what habits or maybe mindset
shifts do you think have made thebiggest difference for you to, to
be experiencing the success you are.
I.
Natasha Deen (27:38):
One of the biggest ones, again, with networking, it's just building
connections and like as therapistswe're really good at doing that.
Anyway, once I realized thatthat's all it truly is about, I
was like, oh, that's not so bad.
That's not so scary.
You get to just go out and makefriends and then hope that that
brings, you know, brings you clients.
Exactly.
And that makes it way less.
You know, stressful, anxiety inducing.
(27:59):
And I think like now, again,now that it's, it's been some
time since I first planted thoseseeds like three-ish years ago.
I'm starting to see those, uh, clientreferrals come in more so from people
that I started talking to like almostthree years ago because now they,
they can like put more of a face.
To my name and they knowmore and more what I do.
(28:21):
If I'm like showing up at certainevents consistently or you know,
responding in the group messages, thenthey start to see like, oh, okay, like
this is a, it's like, you know, youbecome familiar in their mind or they
get to know who you are as a person.
So then they're more willing to, or I, Ithink more willing to refer to you 'cause
they know you, but you're also like.
Come to the top of their mindbecause you're just showing up more.
(28:43):
It reminds me of election time whenpeople see certain names that it's just
like, I don't know anything about thisperson, but I see their name all the time.
Yeah.
So it's kind of like that.
And so I'm seeing that way morenow, three years in than I was
necessarily seeing at the beginning.
So even if you're not immediatelygetting the responses that you want,
like you're, you gotta, you gottathink of it like the long game here.
(29:04):
You have to see way bigger picture.
And I know sometimes it can be hard toput in effort when you're not seeing
some sort of result, but it really does.
Payoff.
It really does make a difference.
Yeah,
Anna Walker (29:14):
that's a wonderful example of, I think just staying in touch with
your marketing and keeping that longgame, um, because it's very, very easy
and in this market where networkingmatters, I think more than it ever has.
It's very easy to get discouragedwhen you don't get the email back or
you meet someone and they say they'rewill send people your way, and they
never do, quote unquote, never.
You know, six months, a year, twoyears, three years from now, like you
(29:36):
are planting a seed that has so muchpotential, but you do, you have to be
willing to cultivate that and mm-hmm.
I think in this market, that'sa huge trend that I'm seeing.
The clinicians like you who areexperiencing success are the
people who are keeping the longgame remaining consistent, being
willing to evolve and pivot.
Um, and you're a greatexample of all those things.
Natasha Deen (29:54):
Yeah, and it truly doesn't, like you can do it in
ways that feel really sustainable.
Like I'm in a few different group chatsand it can be hard to keep up with
group chats, but I think even if youjust jump in when people are having
more ca casual conversations or like,I've seen people send funny memes.
You know what's actually really funny?
I had somebody reach out to me becausein a, a group, I think she asked for,
(30:16):
or somebody else, actually, it wasa different therapist had asked for.
A referral for like, you know, tosomebody offer X, Y, and Z, whatever.
And I had responded and I was just like.
Really, I, I was actually really short.
I was just like, yes, I do this.
And that was the end of it.
And then she was like, you know, askedanother question about something else,
and then I just responded with just that.
Like, it was very short back and forth.
(30:39):
And a few people in the chat werelike, I really like this conversation.
Like, just direct to the point,like, it was kind of funny to
watch, but this, this was nice.
And I was like, you know, it's.
Day, it's the end of the week.
This is what you'regetting from me as a joke.
And then somebody else just sawthat interaction and she messaged me
separately and was like, I don't knowwhat it was about, just seeing that.
But I like, I liked that energy.
(31:00):
So like, you know, wanted totalk to me based off of that.
And we've, I've referred a coupleof people to her and I'm sure
she's referred people to me too.
I just may not have seen it yet.
But even just simple,again, being authentic.
Simple.
Being authentic.
I feel like that's the
Anna Walker (31:13):
theme here.
Natasha Deen (31:14):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Even that can be enough for somebodyto like have you on the top of
their mind or wanna refer to you.
It's the things that you wouldn't
Anna Walker (31:22):
always think about, and just being memorable, showing up as
yourself, being memorable, knowingyour zone of genius, your niche,
who you serve well and trusting.
I think there's a lot of self-trust andjust trust in your efforts here that Yeah.
Eventually does pay off.
Mm-hmm.
Cool.
Um, I know a lot of people are sittinghere listening to the story, Natasha,
(31:42):
and probably resonate with parts ofit, with serving 30 clients a week
or feeling like they are just workingwith whoever comes in the door.
Considering leaving the field early on intheir practice, however that, you know,
they might resonate with your story,what would you, what would you tell them?
Uh, I
Natasha Deen (31:59):
think just.
Try something different.
You know, like it doesn't it, itmay not be like it was for me.
It may not be that you totallyneed to leave the field.
Maybe you just need to do something alittle bit differently or see things
from a different perspective, right?
Like even marketing and networking, if youjust look at it a little bit differently
or shifting the way you like, look at youryearly cycle, and that can change a lot.
(32:20):
So just try.
To do something, just even ifit's one thing a little bit
differently, and see how that goes.
Because I, I think one of the things thatI often forget is this is my own business.
I can do whatever I want.
Like literally I can do whatever I want.
And I have, yeah.
And I have moments where I'mjust like, oh, I can't do that.
Like that.
And then when I sit backand I'm like, well, why, why
(32:40):
can't I do something that way?
And there's no real reason.
I think we're just.
Either conditioned by some of the otherenvironments that we've been in, or
you know, bigger picture things thatyou were generally kind of conditioned
into thinking you have to work a nineto five, or you have to do, you know,
these sort of things and you don't.
So I would say just kind of.
Take some time and sit with yourself andreally even start, like I said too at
(33:04):
the beginning, start to just dream andask yourself, what do you really want?
And I think truly that's how I'veaccomplished some of my goals.
I remember a couple of years ago, Iwas like, it would be really great
if I could see 10 clients a weekand do brain spotting intensives
like once or twice a month.
And I didn't really see.
Set out and was like, this ishow I'm gonna do that and this
is how I'm gonna make it happen.
I just like brought that goal up Often.
(33:26):
I talked about it with people inmy life and it was something that
I just sat and thought about and,and was like, that would be great.
That would be really cool, andhere are all the things that
I could do if that came true.
And it was just from allowing myselfto want that and to, you know, think
about it that I didn't even realize,but I started making decisions that.
Put me in that, on that path.
(33:46):
So I think even just, you know,thinking about things a little bit
differently and then allowing yourselfto dream just a little bit bigger
and a little bit more, and then
Anna Walker (33:54):
see what happens.
That's really wonderful, Natasha.
Thank you.
I'm so happy you're here today.
We are wishing you allthe success in the world.
If someone wanted to check out thewonderful website that you've referenced
here, uh, where can they find you?
Natasha Deen (34:06):
Yeah, so it's www.goldenhourcounseling.com.
Perfect.
We'll put that in the show notes as well.
Anna Walker (34:13):
Natasha, thanks
Natasha Deen (34:14):
so much for being here today.
Anna Walker (34:15):
Thank you.
Hey, hey, welcome back to Marketing Therapy.
(00:02):
I'm so excited to share this one with you.
In this interview, I sit down with NatashaDean, who is a clinician in Baltimore.
We talk all about her story, and wecover a lot of ground here, but Natasha
shares about going from working in agroup practice, serving 30 clients a
week, whoever she's assigned to, to nowattracting right fit clients at $200 a
(00:25):
session, and doing it in a way that feels.
Really authentic and aligned andcreating a practice now where she has
margin for exploring other ways ofserving people, other revenue streams.
We talk about a lot here.
I can't wait for youto get to know Natasha.
And so enough for me.
Let's get into it.
Alright, Natasha, welcome to the show.
(00:46):
Can you start with introducingyourself, who you are, where
you're located, a little bit aboutyourself and your background.
Natasha Deen (00:52):
Yeah, so I'm Natasha.
I am A-L-C-P-C and I am locatedin Maryland, but I'm licensed
in both Maryland and Virginia.
And I support Bipoc clients, adults,individual adults in doing deep
work, trauma-informed care and brainspotting, and my micro niche, um, it's
therapy for Muslim adult children ofimmigrants and kind of helping them
(01:16):
take care of themselves the sameway that they take care of others.
Yeah, I
Anna Walker (01:19):
think that answered all of your questions.
Perfect.
Perfect.
Tell me about the season of life or kindof practice that you're in right now.
I, we're gonna talk about yourjourney and how you got here, but
where are you finding yourself today?
Here, 2025.
And in this wild world we're living in.
Natasha Deen (01:34):
Yeah, so I am almost three years into my own private practice.
And there've been a lot of shiftslately, so I have a few new
offerings, so that's really exciting.
But I'm definitely in a placethat I didn't expect to be at all.
It was like a dream to be in this positionthat I'm in now, and I really didn't.
Think that it was gonnahappen especially so soon.
(01:56):
'cause I worked with you almostthree years ago when I first started.
So like the amount of change thatI've gone through in just the three
years has been, I've surprised myself.
Anna Walker (02:04):
Okay.
Well I wanna know all about that,but first take us back like to the
beginning, three years ago, even beforethat, what was life like when you
decided to jump into private practice?
Where were you in yourlife as a therapist?
Tell us more about that.
Natasha Deen (02:17):
Yeah, so I was working at a different private practice
for working for somebody else.
It was their practice and weaccepted insurance, so I was
like getting a cut of a cut.
You know, insurance takes their cutfirst and then the practice owners
take their cut and I think I was seeinglike 30 people a week on a good week.
(02:38):
Yeah.
Wow.
Yeah, it was, it was a lot.
And then, you know, notmaking as much as I felt like.
Compensated for seeing that many people.
I was actually at a point where Icontemplated leaving the field altogether
'cause I was just like, I'm burnt out.
I don't like this.
We also didn't get tochoose who we worked with.
They just kind of assigned peoplebased on availability and to some
(03:01):
extent like what you offered.
So it felt like a fit moreso on the client end rather
than like a both way fit.
Yeah, so I really thought aboutleaving and I think I had a couple of
friends at the time who were startingtheir own private practice and I was
like, maybe that's what I need to do.
Maybe I just need to do this in a waythat feels really fulfilling to me.
Working with the clients thatI knew best how to help and
(03:23):
felt like a really good fit.
'cause I did have some on my caseloadwho were a really good fit and I actually
felt, I noticed I was feeling moreenergized when working with those clients.
So I was like, okay, maybeI don't have to leave.
Maybe I just need moreof this and that's what.
Really the, the big thing thatpushed me into private practice.
And then I found you, like from oneof my friends, Katherine, actually,
(03:44):
she told me about you and I was like,okay, let me see what this is about.
And that was actually, um.
I started my practice in September,2022, and I think I started working
with you like very shortly after that.
I went and looked
Anna Walker (03:59):
it up before this talk.
Yeah, and I believe it wasNovember maybe that you joined.
Yeah,
Natasha Deen (04:02):
yeah,
Anna Walker (04:03):
yeah, yeah.
I remember it being fall closer towinter time, so that sounds right.
Yeah.
So when you decided to go intopractice, obviously you were hoping
to work with people that you enjoyed,to avoid or, you know, really remedy
this burnout you were experiencing.
Mm-hmm.
Did you have any other big goalsfor what this practice would be?
You mentioned that right now you'rein a place you never would've
imagined, but back then, what wereyou, what were you hoping for?
(04:25):
Back then I was hoping
Natasha Deen (04:26):
for the bare minimum, I was just like, I
just wanna do good therapy work.
I wanna feel more balanced and in a betterposition as a therapist to be like my, you
know, my best self, be supported in what Ineed so that I could be a better therapist
to the clients that I was working with.
And that was really my only priority.
And of course, you know, makemore money than I was making.
(04:47):
But that was really it.
I didn't have as big.
What at the time felt like lofty dreams.
And now like the more that I'm init and every time I hit a new goal
or a milestone, I'm like, well,I could, like, I could do more.
I could, you know, I could dream for more.
I could ask for more.
I could do more.
Yeah.
(05:07):
And I think, you know, whenyou're, especially as a therapist.
You don't really feel likeyou can dream that big.
It feels like I have to just like,I'm here to just serve other people.
And that's really it.
That 'cause like, you know, I think for alot of us that generally does, genuinely
does, um, make us feel fulfilled.
But then when you can do that andtake care of yourself and see how you
(05:28):
can continue to support and help yourcommunity in all these other ways when
you're not burnt out, just trying tolike work with any client that comes
through your door and you're, oninsurance panels and taking a cut of a or
getting a cut of a cut, like you are notreally thinking much further than that.
Anna Walker (05:43):
Absolutely.
It's hard to when it's just, youknow, paycheck to paycheck session
to session in those early days.
Yeah.
Early on when you decided to makethis leap from group practice, did you
do that all at once or did you, likebuild your private practice on the
side while still working at the group?
What was that transition like for you?
That it was actually, in
Natasha Deen (06:00):
some ways
Anna Walker (06:01):
it
Natasha Deen (06:01):
was really difficult and in other ways I think it helped me.
Be in the position that I'm in right now.
So like when I decided to leave mypractice and I had had the conversation
with them, I was originally planningto slowly build on the side, but.
It just didn't end up going that way.
There were some issues and I had to leavea lot sooner than I wanted to, and I just
(06:22):
kind of had to like jump straight into it.
And thankfully at the time I was livingwith my parents still, so I was like,
okay, let me just do everything then.
Let me get off insurance.
Let me start my practice, let me,you know, set a higher fee and just
do everything at the same time whileI have the safety net, which is also
why I think I didn't have as big.
Dreams and goals.
'cause I was like, I need to just, Ineed to just like survive on my feet.
(06:45):
Yeah.
Yeah.
So,
Anna Walker (06:47):
okay,
Natasha Deen (06:47):
so you kind of ripped off
Anna Walker (06:48):
the bandaid.
You did all the things all at oncethere and just took the big leap,
Natasha Deen (06:52):
which is why I was like, okay, now I need to go talk to Anna
because how do, how do I like, not speedup the process, but like, how do I do
this right and get it right from the jump?
Anna Walker (07:02):
Sure, sure.
Okay.
Interesting.
When you were in those early days,and obviously we met pretty soon
after, what felt, if you can remember,the most daunting at that time?
So you'd made these decisions, youstarted the practice, you raised
your fees, you deep paneled.
What was the biggest like dun, dun, dunlike thing you had to do or overcome?
Natasha Deen (07:20):
Where am I gonna find people?
How are people gonna find me?
Like through insurance, it'sreally easy for people to find you.
You get full really quickly throughinsurance, but now it's like, I'm.
I'm start and I was pretty earlyinto my career at that point too.
Anyway, I had graduated in 2019, so then,you know, between 2019 and 2022, still
(07:44):
being a fairly new therapist at that.
And then I'm like, okay, well I'vespent all this time not trying to.
Really make a name for myself, butjust trying to get, get into the swing
of things as a therapist, just tryingto figure out how to help people.
And now I have to continue doing thatand figure out how to be a business
owner, how to start a practice, howto do all these, and then do all these
(08:07):
things that I didn't go to school for.
Running a business, marketing,you know, all of that.
Had to figure out howto do all at one time.
So that was, I think, marketing.
And figuring out how clients will find me.
Were the, like that they kindof go hand in hand, but it was
the scariest part of all of it.
Yeah, absolutely.
Anna Walker (08:23):
Making that leap is, is terrifying.
So you heard about Confident Copyfrom, from a friend, from Catherine.
You joined.
What stood out to you?
It has been a while now and we gotto work together again as you sort of
rejoined confident copy earlier this year.
But in your original experience,what support tools, breakthroughs
did you have or, or did youfind really stood out to you?
Natasha Deen (08:43):
I think the biggest takeaway from all of it was the
emphasis on the copy, right?
Like how to write copy and howto write it in a way that is
gonna attract your ideal client.
While every like there was, there wastruly so much that was really helpful.
I think.
That was the biggest takeaway becauseeven in some of the things that I'm
doing now, the things that I learnedfrom Confident Copy and how to write is
(09:05):
benefiting me in all of these other ways.
So like marketing in other areasin some of these other like
non therapy related spaces.
So that I think just that youwere like, okay, I am gonna
teach you guys how to do this.
I'm not gonna like, you know,you have the done for you.
Programs, which is great, but you'realso like, I'm gonna show you how you
do this thing so that you're set up inthe future, which is so much of how I do
(09:28):
my work as a therapist, where I'm like,I don't want you to be dependent on me.
I'm gonna give you these toolsand these skills so that you can
figure it out and I'll be there tosupport you, and then you're gonna
be fine to go do that on your own.
So it, that resonated with me so much.
And that's exactly whatI got out of the program.
And I, I can't even tell you how manytimes I've gone back to the vault and
(09:48):
revamped my website or how many timesI've even gone back to the vault to
use it for non therapy related things.
And it's just been incredibly
Anna Walker (09:55):
helpful.
Yeah, I think it, it's interesting,it's easy to discount words, um, because
words don't feel as sexy or shiny asSEO or Google Ads or Instagram reels,
and yet none of those things work.
Well, if you don't havethe words figured out.
Right.
So I love hearing thatreflection from you.
It's, it's one of the coolest parts Ithink about Confident Copy is not only
(10:18):
are you hopefully leaving with an ideaof your niche and a good website, but a
way of talking about and thinking aboutyour work and your marketing so that
whatever it is you do next, even if it'snon therapy related, you have a strategy
you can return to and you can trust.
Natasha Deen (10:32):
Yeah, yeah.
No, I agree.
I think it's, and it likeconfident copy is the perfect.
Name for it too, because it'slike, you also were encouraging
us to be confident in these skillsand building these, um, building
these skills and using these tools.
And I think that that was another,like really big piece of all of
this, being more confident in howand, and how to express myself.
(10:56):
Like have that come across ina really authentic way, not.
Therapist speak, but speaking toan ideal client and really hitting
their pain points so they feellike they're heard and understand,
understood before they even come in.
'cause I, it was like, I could dothat, I could do that in a consult
call and I could really connectwith people on a consult call.
But how, how do I write that ona website for like, you know,
(11:18):
the general public, basically,how do I connect with everybody?
And even that, I think, I can't remember.
Where I heard this before, but it's like.
As a business owner, you haveto say no more than you say yes.
'cause you're making room for allof the, you know, right fit clients
or the right fit opportunities.
And I think like when we're talking aboutniching down and when you're talking about
(11:41):
speaking to an ideal client, it's likesaying no to the people who are not a
good fit right up front, which is reallyscary, especially when you're in a place.
When you're like, I, but I need clients.
I don't have any clients, or Ineed, you know, a certain amount of
income and I'm just not there yet.
So it, it made me think a lot of how.
You kind of like teach thingsincompetent copy, where it's like,
(12:02):
it's okay to say no to these peoplewho aren't, aren't a good fit.
That just means you're gonna attract thepeople who are a really good fit, who see
themselves in the way that you're writing.
And so when I could get out of thathead space of I'm writing so that
everybody can see themselves here,it's more of you're writing so that the
person that you really do wanna workwith and do your best work with knows
(12:22):
that you're the right person for them.
Mm-hmm.
Just like you put in a consult call.
Anna Walker (12:25):
Yeah, that's a powerful shift for sure.
What surprised you most aboutyour own growth through the
process of Confident Copy?
You know, having gone from working withthis wide range of clients, whoever was
sent your way in the group practice tonow essentially getting to choose, getting
to say yes and say no, figuring outyour niche, what, where do you feel like
you grew the most through that process?
Natasha Deen (12:48):
I think maybe just like understanding a little bit more.
Of where my skillset lies, likewhat I'm really good at, but
what I can do, what I can't do.
'cause before when it was just like youhave to, it felt like you have to fit.
Yourself into this box that like theclient brings into session versus
like, you are just here and thisclient is also just here and you
(13:11):
guys just work from the beginning.
You've established that beforethey even come in and you can like
authentically help them and even in ways.
That, and I've been really surprisedhow I like my, some of my, I guess
like techniques even have changed asa therapist where I went from trying
to be this blank slate to like, that'snot gonna work with my ideal client.
Like, I disclose a lot more, obviouslyin ways that are appropriate, but like
(13:34):
having such similar life experiences tosome of my clients when just sharing.
Oh yeah, I, I know what that's like.
And not saying anything more,they're just like, oh, okay.
Like, you get it, you get it.
Then I don't have to explain this.
And that really resonating with people.
But I couldn't do it before because one,it wasn't true, it wasn't authentic.
And two, like it also felt like if I.
(13:55):
You know, going back to thatidea of fitting into a box.
If I couldn't fit in this box inthis way, then I had to like try and
figure it out in a different way.
And then you spend too much obsession inyour head and trying to figure out, well,
what do you need and how do I be that?
And that's not helpful to anybody.
Anna Walker (14:08):
Interesting.
That's a cool, that's acool byproduct that as you.
Get clear on the work that you dowell and you attract the people
that you're designed to serve.
Like it, it serves everyone better, right?
What you, the therapist, you're ableto be in the room is a better therapist
because you're sitting down and you'renot in an uncomfortable box, right?
Yeah.
Yeah, exactly.
(14:29):
Cool, cool.
Um, alright.
Tell me about what you're up to now.
You mentioned having experiencedthings you never would have, uh,
dreamt of, and you've also donesome kind of niche evolution.
Yeah.
So give us a little bit of an update.
Where's, where does Natashafind herself today in 2025?
Natasha Deen (14:45):
Yeah, so I think this was something that you've also mentioned in
Confident Copy, but it wasn't, and I don'tknow if I just like didn't pay attention
to it too much at the time, but you hadmentioned how like if you can get your
copyright, you can set your rate at a ratethat you need it to be, you want it to be,
and you will attract those clients and youknow, it's, it's not gonna feel like I'm.
(15:06):
Stating this quote unquote crazyfee, and then you're trying to
desperately fill those spots.
So my fee is 200, whichis average for my area.
But it took me a littlewhile to get to that point.
'cause I was just so scared thatlike, people aren't gonna come,
they're not gonna wanna pay 200.
And like, what do I haveto offer that's worth 200?
(15:26):
You know, those types of thoughts.
And so as I've, like I justmentioned as I've evolved as
a therapist, seeing how like.
You know, there are things thatI offer that people need and they
would be willing to pay that amount.
And so I've also been able to dobrainspotting intensives, offer
Brainspotting intensives, which isone of my favorite things to do.
(15:46):
And one of my goals was to like do thatmore often so that I could see less.
People on a weekly basis and thenhave brain spotting intensives and
still be like, okay, income wise,but do more of that work That feels
really aligned with me and like, youknow, again, tapping into my skills
that I'm just like really good at.
(16:07):
So then doing that, making that shift.
I think within the past year and a half.
It's also given me more time inmy schedule to do other things.
So now like I'm in the middle ofcreating a guided journal and like I
said, not like it is kind of therapyrelated, but in a totally different way.
And again, using what I've learnedin competent copy to help like market
(16:28):
that journal and even some of likethe ways that I've written things in
the journal too, but like getting tohave, I think just live a life that's
more authentic and in a way that I getto help people in so many different.
Ways as well.
Like not just feeling like my job asa therapist is just to show up, see
30 people a week, come home totallyexhausted and drained, but like, no.
(16:50):
Now I get to come home and do more thingsfor people and support my community Yeah.
In another way.
Mm-hmm.
And still have that time formyself and still be able to
meet my income goals and things
Anna Walker (17:01):
like that.
So
Natasha Deen (17:02):
yeah.
Anna Walker (17:02):
How wonderful.
So you're at 200 a session rightnow, and how are most of your
ideal clients often finding you?
It
Natasha Deen (17:10):
used to be through Psychology Today on my website now it's
like my website and networking and mm-hmm.
You know, both of that.
My website, you
Anna Walker (17:19):
know, confident copy.
Yeah.
It all comes back to that.
It's, it's interesting how that works.
Yeah.
How cool.
To think back to, like you said, thatlike seeing 30 clients a week burnt out,
contemplating leaving the field to now.
Having, like serving in allof these different ways and
feeling a lot more fulfilled,that's quite the transformation,
especially in just three years.
You mentioned being surprisedthat you are here now.
(17:41):
What's the most surprising about them?
I think when.
Natasha Deen (17:46):
You can really show up to everything that you do.
Like, especially work authentically.
You open the door for somany other opportunities.
And I just did not realize that beforebecause I could not be authentic
at work where it felt like I had,again, fitting into that box and
trying to be what clients needed.
So that drains you too.
That burns you out too.
(18:07):
You have no energy left foryourself, for your family, for
like other things, friends.
So when you're just like.
Like not getting to be who you areand share your skills, your talents,
your strengths with the world, then.
You're like not able to meetsome of these other goals.
I think through confident copy, if I'mable to express myself in a way that
(18:28):
speaks to my ideal client, and it'snot, again, you know, like it's not
about you, it's also about your client,but in a way that works for both of
you, then that helps you to accomplishso many other things that feel really
aligned with your values, your goals,and it doesn't have to be in a way.
Feels like icky or gross.
Like I know when you talk aboutmarketing or networking, it's like,
(18:50):
you know, people feel like, it feelslike it has to be in the, these like
slimy, salesy, salesy kind of ways.
And it doesn't have to be like thatwhen you just, you show up really
authentically in your work, in yourcopy, in the things that you do.
And so I was really surprised at howmany doors that open just by truly
being authentic and getting that across.
Anna Walker (19:11):
Mm.
That's really powerful.
I want to talk a little bit aboutthe, um, micro niche that you've
identified and a little bit of theevolution that you've experienced.
So recent or earlier this year, you joinedCC Extended, which is where you kind
of jumped back into the live calls andthings, which was so fun to see you again.
Um, what led you to sort of add onthis micro niche, um, and how is
that part of your practice going?
(19:32):
How'd you get there?
Tell me a little bit about that.
Natasha Deen (19:34):
Yeah, funny enough, I feel like it wasn't super
explicit on my website, but itwas what I was doing anyway.
So again, so again, like just trying toget that across in, in the copy because
I think I had a client say I could tell.
What you do and like, you know, how youwork, but it was kind of subtle and I
(19:54):
was like, okay, well then I need to goback to Confident copy and figure out
how to make it like, you know, more,more visible, more like very clearly this
is what I do and this is how it works.
Um, and that's how I ended up coming backand like getting really specific in the
micro niche because I think that therewas still a part of me that was trying to.
(20:14):
Write more broadly, speak to more people.
And like I said, even though therewere certain pages that I updated
or pages that I added, I think thecore of my website had stayed the
same since when I first joined.
So when.
Just like me being in a differentmindset after having worked with
clients where I could feel moreauthentic with, and I was going, like,
I was trying to write this copy whenI was not quite in that place yet.
(20:38):
So seeing how that'sshifted and how I show up.
When I went back and actuallyread through my website, I was
like, oh no, this is not right.
Like this doesn't resonate anymore.
So yeah, that's, I think.
Like you said that this waskind of always my niche.
I just didn't fully realize that yet.
Anna Walker (20:52):
Yeah, and sometimes it does take sitting with it
and meeting those clients andworking with those clients mm-hmm.
To kind of feel like you have permissionto get a little bit more specific.
I think it's one of the cool examplesof how evolution is healthy and
normal and good and effective,quite frankly, in your marketing.
Natasha Deen (21:09):
I think it's really interesting too that despite not having it
as explicitly stated on my website, likethe clients were still finding me and the
right fit clients, were still finding me.
So I think, like I hope that thisis kind of a proof to everybody that
even when you micro niche, like inyou're worried that you're not gonna
get certain people or you're worriedthat like you need to speak more
(21:30):
broadly, there is something about you.
Something that you do that people need.
And no matter how you may try to like hidethat, it's not gonna be totally hidden.
It's gonna come out and people wantthat and they're looking for that.
But you know, if you could justbe a little bit more clear about
it and explicit, then it's gonnaattract people so much more easily
(21:51):
and quickly and obviously Yes.
So I think, you know, that wassomething else that surprised me too.
Like, wow, okay.
No matter what we do, even when wetry and be a blank slate, like that's
not really happening in that way.
Anna Walker (22:02):
Interesting.
Yeah.
The power of of showing up to yourmarketing in an authentic way.
We find ourselves right now in 2025,I know you've heard the same thing I
have, that things have slowed down.
People aren't paying for therapy, it'shard to get clients, that kind of thing.
Yet here you sit reaching goals.
You didn't ever imagine, youknow, charging $200 an hour.
Uh, you don't have to give me yourwhole spiel on what you think the
(22:23):
market is doing, but what would yousay to those therapists who feel
discouraged or maybe do have thosethoughts or beliefs that success is.
You know, not possible orharder than it used to be.
Natasha Deen (22:36):
I, the piece about being, it being harder than it used to be.
I've tried to reframe thatas like, it's just different.
It's, it feels harder because we gotused to something and now we have
to shift, but it's just different.
And like we had to do thatat the beginning, right?
Like whenever you started marketing,you had to figure that out.
Most of us went to schoolonly for counseling.
Only for therapy.
So no matter what, I think it might bejust a little bit hard to shift into
(23:00):
a different mindset, but it's not, Iwouldn't necessarily say it's like.
Harder than anything that you,you know, we've already done
and tried to figure out before.
And then I would say, look at the numbers.
Like I listened to your mostrecent podcast episode and
that really resonated with me.
I think sometimes we feel that.
Things have slowed down.
And that might be true, but if you'restill hitting certain goals, like income
(23:23):
goals, if your income hasn't changed,if you're still seeing, X amount of
clients a week or things are balancingout, then like it, did it really slow
down or does it just feel different?
And so I think, trying to go basedoff of facts versus feelings, which,
you know, as therapists we're allfamiliar with, but that, that really
stood out to me that really resonated.
'cause I think in thesummer, for whatever reason.
(23:47):
It feels like things slow down alot more than they actually do.
When I, every single summer, Igo back and look at the numbers
and I end up being really busy.
I don't know, like sometimes I'mseeing less clients, but I end up
being busier and I'm just like, what?
I still don't fullyunderstand what's happening.
I actually have to sit downand look at my numbers too.
But I think like, you know,other things might pick up.
I tend to try and market moreand revisit my website, and
(24:10):
so I'm busier in that sense.
Um, and I may not be busy directlywith client related things, but I
also find that doing brain spottingintensivess people, because it's
shorter term, people will like, dothat in the summer than necessarily
be ready to do like deep longer work.
So I, I kind of see it from bothperspectives, doing both like
(24:30):
short-term and long-term work.
Yeah, I, I think just, yeah,like really sitting down and
evaluating what's going on.
And I think the other part of it toois when you're, again, just being
really clear about what you do,people are always looking for that.
Even if it slows down, there's alwaysgonna be somebody who's looking for this
thing that you offer and this thing thatyou do, or who you are as a therapist too.
(24:52):
And it's just a matter of likewhen they're gonna find you.
The other thing I will say toois, and I think you might have
mentioned this in that same episode.
It like the ups and downsare always gonna be there.
Especially as a owning a business,there's always gonna be ups and downs.
What you really have to look at is, doesit even out at the end of that year?
Because if it is slower in thesummer, but then every fall it
(25:14):
picks up and you make way more,then like it kind of balances out.
Right.
That.
And when I started looking at it,and now because it's been almost
three years, I have more information.
I can see more trends, but at thevery beginning when it was like,
well, this never happened when Iwas taking insurance, this never
happened when, you know, I was workingfor someone else, it did, but I
just didn't see it or notice it as
Anna Walker (25:34):
much.
Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
The seasonality and everyone'sseasonality is a little bit unique.
And the longer you are in it,the more comfortable you can
be with those ebbs and flows.
But there's, it's very, it's sonatural to have a little bit of
anxiety when those things come up.
But you're absolutely right.
If we can zoom out and keep an eye on thetrends and the overall health as opposed
to just how it feels, usually we can makedecisions from a much more grounded place.
(25:55):
And, and if it is, like you said,slower, then let's invest that
time in improving optimizing, yeah.
Dreaming.
About what else could, yeah, the
Natasha Deen (26:04):
way that I look at it too, I have summer be like my end of
year rather than December because.
Then 'cause you know, if you just lookat it from like summer to summer and
when things slow down, how it typically,you expect it to typically be at the
end of the year and then look back atthat trend, then it, it looks really
different and it feels really differentthan when you go like January to
Anna Walker (26:25):
December.
What an interesting, I have never heardof that, but that makes a lot of sense.
And I even just, that little reframecould actually be really powerful
when you think about your number.
Yeah,
Natasha Deen (26:33):
I think, and that I feel, this is like a part of a much different
conversation, but I feel like the cycleof things, like that's what's more
consistent with human nature anyway.
Like spring feels like thenew year versus in January.
So when I kind of started following that Iwas like, okay, yeah, I feel like things.
Align a lot differently.
'cause when you see it as a drop in themiddle of the year, that's really scary.
(26:56):
But when you see it as like, Ithink people think, oh, holiday
time, it's the end of the year.
Things will slow down.
I don't know if it's just me and maybethe population I work with, but I've never
really seen it slow down at the end of theyear like that, like I have in the summer.
And so if you're expecting that at theend of your year, just shift your year.
Anna Walker (27:13):
Yeah.
Yeah, absolutely.
That's the, the solution here is tojust follow a different calendar.
I love that.
This has been so wonderful.
Natasha, I learned so much about you.
I didn't know all the ins and outsof this journey you've been on.
When you look back over the last threeyears, what habits or maybe mindset
shifts do you think have made thebiggest difference for you to, to
be experiencing the success you are.
I.
Natasha Deen (27:38):
One of the biggest ones, again, with networking, it's just building
connections and like as therapistswe're really good at doing that.
Anyway, once I realized thatthat's all it truly is about, I
was like, oh, that's not so bad.
That's not so scary.
You get to just go out and makefriends and then hope that that
brings, you know, brings you clients.
Exactly.
And that makes it way less.
You know, stressful, anxiety inducing.
(27:59):
And I think like now, again,now that it's, it's been some
time since I first planted thoseseeds like three-ish years ago.
I'm starting to see those, uh, clientreferrals come in more so from people
that I started talking to like almostthree years ago because now they,
they can like put more of a face.
To my name and they knowmore and more what I do.
(28:21):
If I'm like showing up at certainevents consistently or you know,
responding in the group messages, thenthey start to see like, oh, okay, like
this is a, it's like, you know, youbecome familiar in their mind or they
get to know who you are as a person.
So then they're more willing to, or I, Ithink more willing to refer to you 'cause
they know you, but you're also like.
Come to the top of their mindbecause you're just showing up more.
(28:43):
It reminds me of election time whenpeople see certain names that it's just
like, I don't know anything about thisperson, but I see their name all the time.
Yeah.
So it's kind of like that.
And so I'm seeing that way morenow, three years in than I was
necessarily seeing at the beginning.
So even if you're not immediatelygetting the responses that you want,
like you're, you gotta, you gottathink of it like the long game here.
(29:04):
You have to see way bigger picture.
And I know sometimes it can be hard toput in effort when you're not seeing
some sort of result, but it really does.
Payoff.
It really does make a difference.
Yeah,
Anna Walker (29:14):
that's a wonderful example of, I think just staying in touch with
your marketing and keeping that longgame, um, because it's very, very easy
and in this market where networkingmatters, I think more than it ever has.
It's very easy to get discouragedwhen you don't get the email back or
you meet someone and they say they'rewill send people your way, and they
never do, quote unquote, never.
You know, six months, a year, twoyears, three years from now, like you
(29:36):
are planting a seed that has so muchpotential, but you do, you have to be
willing to cultivate that and mm-hmm.
I think in this market, that'sa huge trend that I'm seeing.
The clinicians like you who areexperiencing success are the
people who are keeping the longgame remaining consistent, being
willing to evolve and pivot.
Um, and you're a greatexample of all those things.
Natasha Deen (29:54):
Yeah, and it truly doesn't, like you can do it in
ways that feel really sustainable.
Like I'm in a few different group chatsand it can be hard to keep up with
group chats, but I think even if youjust jump in when people are having
more ca casual conversations or like,I've seen people send funny memes.
You know what's actually really funny?
I had somebody reach out to me becausein a, a group, I think she asked for,
(30:16):
or somebody else, actually, it wasa different therapist had asked for.
A referral for like, you know, tosomebody offer X, Y, and Z, whatever.
And I had responded and I was just like.
Really, I, I was actually really short.
I was just like, yes, I do this.
And that was the end of it.
And then she was like, you know, askedanother question about something else,
and then I just responded with just that.
Like, it was very short back and forth.
(30:39):
And a few people in the chat werelike, I really like this conversation.
Like, just direct to the point,like, it was kind of funny to
watch, but this, this was nice.
And I was like, you know, it's.
Day, it's the end of the week.
This is what you'regetting from me as a joke.
And then somebody else just sawthat interaction and she messaged me
separately and was like, I don't knowwhat it was about, just seeing that.
But I like, I liked that energy.
(31:00):
So like, you know, wanted totalk to me based off of that.
And we've, I've referred a coupleof people to her and I'm sure
she's referred people to me too.
I just may not have seen it yet.
But even just simple,again, being authentic.
Simple.
Being authentic.
I feel like that's the
Anna Walker (31:13):
theme here.
Natasha Deen (31:14):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Even that can be enough for somebodyto like have you on the top of
their mind or wanna refer to you.
It's the things that you wouldn't
Anna Walker (31:22):
always think about, and just being memorable, showing up as
yourself, being memorable, knowingyour zone of genius, your niche,
who you serve well and trusting.
I think there's a lot of self-trust andjust trust in your efforts here that Yeah.
Eventually does pay off.
Mm-hmm.
Cool.
Um, I know a lot of people are sittinghere listening to the story, Natasha,
(31:42):
and probably resonate with parts ofit, with serving 30 clients a week
or feeling like they are just workingwith whoever comes in the door.
Considering leaving the field early on intheir practice, however that, you know,
they might resonate with your story,what would you, what would you tell them?
Uh, I
Natasha Deen (31:59):
think just.
Try something different.
You know, like it doesn't it, itmay not be like it was for me.
It may not be that you totallyneed to leave the field.
Maybe you just need to do something alittle bit differently or see things
from a different perspective, right?
Like even marketing and networking, if youjust look at it a little bit differently
or shifting the way you like, look at youryearly cycle, and that can change a lot.
(32:20):
So just try.
To do something, just even ifit's one thing a little bit
differently, and see how that goes.
Because I, I think one of the things thatI often forget is this is my own business.
I can do whatever I want.
Like literally I can do whatever I want.
And I have, yeah.
And I have moments where I'mjust like, oh, I can't do that.
Like that.
And then when I sit backand I'm like, well, why, why
(32:40):
can't I do something that way?
And there's no real reason.
I think we're just.
Either conditioned by some of the otherenvironments that we've been in, or
you know, bigger picture things thatyou were generally kind of conditioned
into thinking you have to work a nineto five, or you have to do, you know,
these sort of things and you don't.
So I would say just kind of.
Take some time and sit with yourself andreally even start, like I said too at
(33:04):
the beginning, start to just dream andask yourself, what do you really want?
And I think truly that's how I'veaccomplished some of my goals.
I remember a couple of years ago, Iwas like, it would be really great
if I could see 10 clients a weekand do brain spotting intensives
like once or twice a month.
And I didn't really see.
Set out and was like, this ishow I'm gonna do that and this
is how I'm gonna make it happen.
I just like brought that goal up Often.
(33:26):
I talked about it with people inmy life and it was something that
I just sat and thought about and,and was like, that would be great.
That would be really cool, andhere are all the things that
I could do if that came true.
And it was just from allowing myselfto want that and to, you know, think
about it that I didn't even realize,but I started making decisions that.
Put me in that, on that path.
(33:46):
So I think even just, you know,thinking about things a little bit
differently and then allowing yourselfto dream just a little bit bigger
and a little bit more, and then
Anna Walker (33:54):
see what happens.
That's really wonderful, Natasha.
Thank you.
I'm so happy you're here today.
We are wishing you allthe success in the world.
If someone wanted to check out thewonderful website that you've referenced
here, uh, where can they find you?
Natasha Deen (34:06):
Yeah, so it's www.goldenhourcounseling.com.
Perfect.
We'll put that in the show notes as well.
Anna Walker (34:13):
Natasha, thanks
Natasha Deen (34:14):
so much for being here today.
Anna Walker (34:15):
Thank you.
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